Just got my second open ever on the sparrows revolver. It took me over 12 hrs of picking the first time, and probably 2 hrs the second. There is no one in my life to tell so celebrate with me if you read this 🤜🏻🤛🏻 3rd try 54 min🙌🏼
I’ve since realized that the pins on the opposing side of the lock interfere with the bottom of the key way so the entire time I’ve been fucking around with this damn lock just getting lucky sometimes when I would bump the pins sticking up in the bottom of the key way. I figured it out when I took it apart and a key pin actually fell out through the bottom of the key way.
@@bennytyty I was pretty sure it is rfid one bill said that it is a bit finnicky and pointed to that big metal part of band. also rfid dont really work trough metals ;)
The reason you have to press the H after the code is to allow attackers to 'overset' the combination. You don't know if you need to enter you guesses after 4, 5, or 6 presses - helps to make brute force attacks that much harder.
Exactly. Having to press “enter” means that trying “123412” doesn’t also give you a guess at 1234 and 12341. Having to have a fixed beginning means that it doesn’t also give you 23412, 2341, and 3412. And so on.
@@JasperJanssen makes sense on the back end side. But he was able to open it with just entering the code and hitting "h". And with having an end to the code the first h wouldn't matter anyways unless you can just add in more numbers. Correct? As in if my code was 2341, I couldn't hit 12341 "h"and it open. That would be stupid if they did it like that. Right?
I thought just the same thing as you, never a good idea to have an rfid tag under a metal case, when I saw the little bump on the strap I knew it had to be that
I own the handgun variant of the rapid safe and it opens with the rfid very reliably. Try plugging it in and see if it picks up the rfid chip without being prompted by pressing the H. Thank you as always
I mean, it's better than a #2 Philips. Actually, I'm not sure. If you strip out a Philips head screw it's a bigger pain that snapping the pin out of a security Torx screw.
Haha yes and the same goes for the RFID gimmick -- it could be considered the digital equivalent of a tubular lock. :-) It can be cloned without physical touching it. Especially if people wear branded RFIDs on their wrists they make themselves vulnerable. Or smart kids can figure it ouy. Better to always use a keypad based method!
Hugo van Galen yeah but you could disable RFID were as you can’t disable the manual lock. Plus someone needs to have cloned the ID. A tubular lock needs no skill and no preplanning.
It doesn't work in the inert position because of how RFID works. The reader would need to emit power 24/7 in order to read your tag. It's more of a battery saving thing rather than a design thing, however i think they would have made it read in inert mode while plugged into the wall because of no power limitations. just my 2 cents!
I agree with the other people saying it's the area near the buckle, the metal spacer is so it can be a watch band, by replacing spacer with a watch. You just pass wrist over sensor since it would be normally below your palm if your wearing it as a watch
I believe the Hak5 Keysy RFID cloner could be used to clone the RFID tags. The bad guy would have to get access to the tags, so if they're left out they could be cloned. It's not clear, however, how the challenge and response works in this unit.
@@phreak761 With the right tool, I can capture and clone your RFID tag without physically taking it. I could use the tool to clone the key fob, the bracelet, of the stick on tags as you walk by me.
@bosnianbill this is why i bought the Hornady gun LOCKER... takes almost all configurations of AR15, and have it plugged in (allows RFID use without pushing any buttons). I would guess the key lock can be changed out... but I don't worry too much about that. layered security, have an alarm (put robbers "on the clock"), have the locker tied down. My main safe is a 4700lb TL30, so I'm not protecting my most expensive gun in the locker LOL. seriously though, take a look at the Hornady locker.
@@douggwyn9656 Most people are not gun haters. Most people just think it stupid that regular people are allowed to own guns. As guns lead to shootings. My opinions is that if the american nation wants gun they can have gun, but then they should shut up about the mass shootings and just accept them. That the tradeoff you get for guns.
Alternately they should train their children to respect and be able to use guns, like is generally required to use a vehicle. And parents and teachers should pay less attention to Facebook and more time to their children, to see if maybe they are falling off the deep end.
Never had a problem with mine using rfid, the first pistol model they made. With AC plug in, the receiver is always ready. a little silicon spray helps the locks run smoother.
Hey Bill just an FYI The RFID and punch code work completely different on AC power than they do on the battery power. On AC power RFID scans with no button press and opens instantly. Same with the button push. Just 1234 H not H 1234 H like you have to do on DC.
Hey bill thank you for all your videos. From your years of professional experience can you please do a video on the best gun safes and locks that you would use or recommend ?
IIRC the way rfid works is it has to send a signal out to a chip which will effectively reflect the signal with a particular signature. If the safe is constantly broadcasting, it would drain the battery. I would test to see if the RFID works while being plugged into the wall because you may be able to get that continuous broadcast while plugged in.
Is there a silent mode? Seems very noisy when you are trying to get your home protection without drawing attention to your position. My house is really quiet at night, you could very well hear that downstairs at certain places, and places upstairs as well.
Yes there is, I forgot to mention it. If you hold down the "H" button for 5 seconds, it silences the beeps. Unfortunately, when you pull out your AR and allow the bolt fo chamber a round it ain't so silent... Of course, you COULD remove that safety device by removing those 6 screws...😀
Zeroing out the numbers with overlength protects from brute force attack. There is a way to type all possible iterations of 4 digits by continually typing numbers far faster than trying all possible combinations individually.
Pressing the H after entering the code is a common and good safety feature, if someone gets the right combination by accident by mashing the buttons it still won't open, and it also avoids revealing the number of digits in the combination by flashing "wrong" after the number of buttons matching the length have been pushed. I see the misunderstanding of the placement of the RFID tag in the bracelet and intent being to remove the metal logo and using it as your watch strap have been mentioned, so no need to add to it. The RFID not always working without pressing a key is certainly for battery saving, I'd expect it to be always active when connected to AC power but not when on battery, either it does a check at relatively slow intervals and on some attempts you got lucky to be at the right time, or just isn't active at all without pushing a button and you possibly were on AC when it worked.
You missed the sticker on the bottom that said it was a California gun safe. In California they want you to disassemble and discard random parts from your gun before locking up the receiver and having the battery run down.
I'm kinda surprised your weapon doesn't have a giggle switch! Regarding the safe, how difficult would it be to retrofit another cam lock? Medeco would be a pretty good choice I'd think. With that modification I'd be more than happy with it for my AR; I use a collapsible stock and single point sling, slim Magpul forend, and a Vortex Sparc AR on top. Looks like it'd fit just fine.
Having to push the reset button each time you miss the right combination is a major issue for safety. It slows down organized combination search for the right combination. Without this, with around a long string of 10 times the code you look for it is enough to find the combination. With the Reset mandatory, the string search has to include each combination plus the reset at each set of number. Much much longer.
I just bought the big vault using the same technology. I will be replacing the cylinder with a MEDICO type. I think that it is unlikely that a thief would carry a tubular lock pickset to get a $500 AR15. He could pry the entire vault from the wall due to the cheesy screws it came with. If this vault is out of sight, it would be a better option than chaining it to the wall with a padlock through the trigger guard.
I am one of those guys that goes to bed with a gun in my pocket, problem solved. The old mechanical 4 button Simplex lock is still king. No batteries, no AC power, but you need to push 4 buttons. 20 years ago Ace locks were state of the art?? Try 40 years ago! 20 years ago I could still buy that GOOD Peterson pick.
9:04 The thing about the reset is for the user to reset after batteries are dead they open the safe with a key. I’ve always wondered why they don’t place a momentary switch on the key latch to activate a timer circuit for the reset button? The timer will make it so you have to press the reset button within 10 or 30 seconds before it disconnects the reset button again. So you have to have the key turned all the way into the unlock position to activate the reset button for 10 or 30 seconds. So drilling or shimming for reset button access won’t work without someone needing to pick the lock. And with a decent tumbler and pins they might not be able pick it. I know it’s just another layer deterrent but it would be easy enough and cheap with a 555 timer circuit. Then again some one will say just shim to get to the momentary switch on the lock, but that could be encased in a way preventing to from being shimmed. Just my thoughts.
@bobwatters Guns are very definite. You have to be absolutely sure before you pull the trigger. Is it a prowler or just your teenage kid rumbling home after an alcohol debut? Or perhaps a drunk neighbor who accidentally walked into the wrong house? You need your wits about you, and if you can't open the safe chances are you don't think straight to begin with.
metal with rfid inside...wonder why it works so bad haha having to reset the code before entering it correctly actually improves security of the combination lock
Bill, magnets don't work on RFID. You should see if you can easily clone one of the fobs. using either a 125Khz cloner or a 13.56MHz NFC cloner. They can be found for pretty cheap on Banggood or Aliexpress. And would pose a significant risk. If some one just breezes past your fob they could clone it and open your gun safe.
It's a home system. If they are in a position to scan the fob they are in a position to steal the fob. Also the crackhead that breaks in isnt going to know I have a safe with a rfid lock so I doubt they are going to even know there is something to scan.
@@MikeKing001 You might be right there. I don't live in the US, so I don't know how many people have rifles wall mounted in their bedrooms in case a burglar breaks in (seems overkill to me). A handgun maybe. So I myself thought this to be used more in a security office or something. Since multiple RFID tags can gain access, and so multiple security guards. So that's why I thought if you bump into one of the security guards you can easily clone their fob. If you have malicious intent. that seems like an easy way to access it. But yeah, not in a home probably.
All RFID systems work by broadcasting radio waves that power the electronics in the tag. So to save battery it probably only sends out a scan pulse every few seconds when asleep, but all the time when activated.
What I think may have been happening is it's actually not reading anytime it's not been activated but the occasional activations were the keypad not having gone back to sleep yet.
Great review and video, if you’re not interested in it and you still have it would you like to sell it? I’m having a hard time finding one of these online and I was wondering why? Is there something similar that you would recommend? Thank you...
There ought to be a way to disable the manual lock when there's power to the system. Yeah, it creates a problem when you can't find any of the RFID tags (depending on how long the batteries last) but it would address that shortcoming.
from the spacing of the tag to the lock... I would say this is more likely NFC not just RFID (what that means is that you can get rings and bracelets to work with it)
The tubular lock, beeping sounds, & inconsistency of the RFID tech are enough to make me pass on this. But the use/installation of that ejection port block, is a tactical nightmare! Should the need for that firearm arise, that block is guaranteeing that you WILL make an extremely loud & obvious sound when you release your bolt carrier to chamber a round! Also, when an AR platform is stored for extended periods with the bolt carrier locked to the rear, the buffer spring is constantly being compressed which can cause it to become misshapen. Hornady is heading in the right direction with this, but they have a lot of issues to address before that hefty pricetag is justified.
I was thinking the same thing about the sounds. If I think I have an intruder in the house, I want to choose if and when I make my presence known. I suppose slamming the bolt closed would send the same message as racking the slide on a shotgun.
@@Willam_J I agree about the TV cop shows where they always blip the siren when they pull up, and rack the slide on there guns, and how about the one where they dubbed in the slide sound and the character had a revolver which he carried so the hammer was pressing into the flesh between the thumb and forefinger. But seriously, 38 years in law enforcement, we carried shotguns with an empty chamber so we had charge the gun when we took it out of the car. And, in some situations the sound did get instant attention and respect.
Very cool. My only problem with it is that rfid can be easily duplicated. If anyone owns one, I would recommend leaving the key fob in something like a shielded wallet
Are there safer replacements for the tubular lock? Or could it be disassembled and improved? Otherwise from the comments it seems as if this is a really nice thing.
This is all very sad to us non Americans. Not just the fact that you need things like this, but all the scenarios that Bill's talking about as if they're a genuine possibility over there. I don't even lock my car or my front door over here, but I do live in a quiet village in England.
Having to push H to validate the combination is normal, else suppose that the code is 1234, you push randomly 433423143123423 it opens because there was 1234 somewhere. With pressing H, you cannot just rpress random numbers.
Just wondering if the key bleeping can be deactivated? After all you wouldn't want to let an intruder know where you are whilst trying to get your weapon to defend yourself. Very nicely explained BB ;-)
Matt Warne it’s a $200 lock box nobody should have to do that and even though that’s easy and straight forward for us it’s not something everybody can do
They make smaller rail covers. You can just leave that small space empty so it can close. Leaving the charging handle back is not an issue if you train to always use it to release the bolt.
Could it be the RFID reader is disabled on battery, but remains active on AC? So when on battery, like during demonstration, the safe has to be woken up before scanning. But when plugged in it might stay in an active mode, and not need woken up?
Bill's gun has a three position selector........ Did Hornady possible put in a secret master number combination, so that if the combo is forgotten and the key and rfid chips are lost, it can still be opened?
This isn't necessarily RFID so much specifically NFC Tags; for this reason, I wonder whether it is possible to duplicate the tags or purchase spare tags individually. Okay, so watching your video further... The only plausible option would be to duplicate the tag's contents and hope they don't check for the tag's individual ID.
Would be interesting to see the output from a RFID debug app, to know whether these are just simple so called "NFC tags" that can be cloned or properly encrypted RFID access cards. Not that it matters, it is faster to pick the tubular lock than trying to clone the tags.
Robert Chrisman The ID of a tag is just part of the contents, easily duplicated onto a tag that doesn't contain or reveal it's ID. In terms of security, the important thing is to have a secret signature key inside that is never revealed even to the lock. The lock can then ask the chip to "sign this random number if you actually have the key". Lots of additional security features needed, but without such a secret key, tags and keyfobs are too easily duplicated.
I keep waiting and hoping for a review of the V-Line Brute gun safe. It's very expensive, but looks like one of the best options for a handgun. Does anyone here have any experience with it?
Loyal2Liberty - I think that this would be the best. No batteries and No key. The only thing is can it be bypassed by a magnet or something slender slides beside the push buttons and feel for the right code that I don’t know. LPL and BB should look into this. This could actually be a very good safe.
For the winner, is it feasible to replace the tubular lock with a small cylinder like a smaller abloy if it exists in protec 2, or a Medeco or something?
If it is plugged in on AC power does it read the RFID chips every time? It may just be a low power usage thing to keep from draining the battery's too quickly
Another case of an electronic lock being worthless due to a mechanical back up. They could easily make it much better by eliminating the manual lock and moving the batteries so they are easy to access, or they could make the power port easy to access and put in a capacitor instead of the batteries. Or as BB says remove the electronics and put in a decent mechanical lock.
Not providing batteries is pretty common. If this product sits in an Amazon warehouse for a year you really run the risk of battery leakage as alkaline batteries are notorious for it. Hornady can't be responsible for the manufacture of alkaline batteries And the battery manufacturers not going to replace your very expensive equipment because of their battery leakage so it makes perfect sense. The only time this probably isn't true is when you buy something from China, they usually supply all the Batteries all the time.
608.00 bucks, go to a locksmith and get the Amsec Under-The-Bed safe.... no need to take your gunapart, and entire weapon is protected against damage or tampering.
Great review, as you say, too bad it's easy to open with the tubular lock decoder, probably won't buy it, i'm not in the army anymore and don't have a weapon to secure.
@@csgas0 Which would also be the answer to the lock operation issue. Practice, drill, repeat a couple thousand times and the stress becomes less of an issue.
They would probably panic dump a mag and end up putting rounds through their neighbors house. Don't use rifles for home defence, its pointlessly dangerous.
No offense but those bulky pic rails are going the way of the Doe Doe bird. Time to get an Mlock rail and save some weight. That said I completely agree on the other issues.
If your phone has NFC (eg Google/Apple/Samsung/etc pay) there are apps you can get (for free, at least on Android) that let you clone RFID tags. NFC Tools is the one I use (Android). Also Adafruit sells RFID rings, tags, and parts to read/write them with a bit of programming.
His point from earlier was that it should ignore the first press so any button lights up the keypad and then you can immediately start inputting the code to open the lock. It's a compromise though ignoring the first button press on wake up would mean if you don't need the light there's an extra key to press between you and your gun in our hypothetical home invasion scenario. Going to the median where it ignores the first press if it's not part of the code though adds ambiguity to the process and reduced the keycode security because it allows someone trying to open it to try 2 combinations at once.
Yes, it is possible to silence the beep sound by holding down on the "H" button for 5 seconds. Turn it back on the same way. The beeping is the LEAST of your sound problems though. Letting the bolt slide forward to chamber a round is about 2487 times LOUDER than the beeps...😀
![ประสบการณ์ จ้าง Developer ที่ผมจะไม่มีวันลืม [ภาค1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/bzivN4KDg-k/mqdefault.jpg)
Just got my second open ever on the sparrows revolver. It took me over 12 hrs of picking the first time, and probably 2 hrs the second. There is no one in my life to tell so celebrate with me if you read this 🤜🏻🤛🏻
3rd try 54 min🙌🏼
I share your joy, congratulations, I know how it feels to struggle with a lock for hours
Congrats!
Congratulations my dude! I just ordered my first pick set and will be jumping in the deep end in about 5 days. Wish me luck!
I’ve since realized that the pins on the opposing side of the lock interfere with the bottom of the key way so the entire time I’ve been fucking around with this damn lock just getting lucky sometimes when I would bump the pins sticking up in the bottom of the key way. I figured it out when I took it apart and a key pin actually fell out through the bottom of the key way.
Is it possible that the wristband RFID chip is actually in the "H" stamped bump near the clasp?
I was about to say the same thing
My bad! I wrongly assumed it was in the medallion. I had no idea the medallion was a piece of Hornady advertising their users wear on their wrist....
@@bennytyty I was pretty sure it is rfid one bill said that it is a bit finnicky and pointed to that big metal part of band. also rfid dont really work trough metals ;)
The RFID signal can’t pass through the metal housing on the band. It has to be in the plastic itself.
@@bosnianbill I think the idea is to put the band on your watch. If you don't wear one then the Hornady medallion gives you an alternative.
The reason you have to press the H after the code is to allow attackers to 'overset' the combination. You don't know if you need to enter you guesses after 4, 5, or 6 presses - helps to make brute force attacks that much harder.
People who say "WHILST" need to be redlined!
I would think that having to press the”H” prior to the code and to unlock would decrease the chances of someone randomly guessing the combo.
Exactly. Having to press “enter” means that trying “123412” doesn’t also give you a guess at 1234 and 12341. Having to have a fixed beginning means that it doesn’t also give you 23412, 2341, and 3412. And so on.
@@JasperJanssen makes sense on the back end side. But he was able to open it with just entering the code and hitting "h". And with having an end to the code the first h wouldn't matter anyways unless you can just add in more numbers. Correct? As in if my code was 2341, I couldn't hit 12341 "h"and it open. That would be stupid if they did it like that. Right?
I think the bracelets RFID tag is not in the metal portion but in the marked bump on the other side
That makes sense - it will allow you to replace the strap of your normal watch with the RFID strap.
I thought just the same thing as you, never a good idea to have an rfid tag under a metal case, when I saw the little bump on the strap I knew it had to be that
This is true
I own the handgun variant of the rapid safe and it opens with the rfid very reliably. Try plugging it in and see if it picks up the rfid chip without being prompted by pressing the H. Thank you as always
Makes sense, thing would save battery power by not having the NFC on all the time. But plugged in it wouldnt matter
That’s what I was thinking 💭. He doesn’t have it plugged in.
You are correct. This is stated in the manual
1, 2, 3, 4? That's the combination on my luggage
give me a can of fresh air please
"high security screws" otherwise known as "Tamper-Resistant Torx Flat Head Screws"
which every single set of bits come with today
They don't offer any real security but in this case they don't do anything structural.
I mean, it's better than a #2 Philips. Actually, I'm not sure. If you strip out a Philips head screw it's a bigger pain that snapping the pin out of a security Torx screw.
A flat-head works for the torx "security bits".
@@Larshjort i came with it
Tubular lock...
...this can't go well.
Haha yes and the same goes for the RFID gimmick -- it could be considered the digital equivalent of a tubular lock. :-) It can be cloned without physical touching it. Especially if people wear branded RFIDs on their wrists they make themselves vulnerable. Or smart kids can figure it ouy. Better to always use a keypad based method!
Hugo van Galen yeah but you could disable RFID were as you can’t disable the manual lock. Plus someone needs to have cloned the ID. A tubular lock needs no skill and no preplanning.
It doesn't work in the inert position because of how RFID works.
The reader would need to emit power 24/7 in order to read your tag. It's more of a battery saving thing rather than a design thing, however i think they would have made it read in inert mode while plugged into the wall because of no power limitations.
just my 2 cents!
I agree with the other people saying it's the area near the buckle, the metal spacer is so it can be a watch band, by replacing spacer with a watch. You just pass wrist over sensor since it would be normally below your palm if your wearing it as a watch
I believe the Hak5 Keysy RFID cloner could be used to clone the RFID tags. The bad guy would have to get access to the tags, so if they're left out they could be cloned. It's not clear, however, how the challenge and response works in this unit.
Why would they possibly need to clone it, if they find the tag they are going to steal your weapon.
@@phreak761 With the right tool, I can capture and clone your RFID tag without physically taking it. I could use the tool to clone the key fob, the bracelet, of the stick on tags as you walk by me.
Does the AC power keep the RFID sensor awake?
Exactly my question.
Yes.
I have mine plugged in. All I have to do is swap across with a chip and it opens
His is lit red. I do not own one. But he said in the beginning... I think his battery was WAY LOW
Are the holes 16” apart? Otherwise you’re going to accidentally rip the box off the wall.
Brick wall.
I'm under stress and lost my fine motor skills. Yup, the perfect time to go grab my AR.
Welcome to the United States. Where a bump in the night warrants grabbing a big ass rifle right after jumping out of bed.
Thats when the bad guys are breaking into your house
I won! How much is shipping Bill??
Bill- "its $155.00 +tax"
@bosnianbill this is why i bought the Hornady gun LOCKER... takes almost all configurations of AR15, and have it plugged in (allows RFID use without pushing any buttons). I would guess the key lock can be changed out... but I don't worry too much about that. layered security, have an alarm (put robbers "on the clock"), have the locker tied down. My main safe is a 4700lb TL30, so I'm not protecting my most expensive gun in the locker LOL. seriously though, take a look at the Hornady locker.
Are there also wall loks for those dangerous vidya games?
HA!
@@angelofreak7 Nope, but there is one for a .223 with optics that is totally necessary for home defense as nothing else will do!
Any kind of investment associated with an AR-15 may be a bad one, given that the gun haters have another chance of outlawing them in the near future.
@@douggwyn9656 Most people are not gun haters. Most people just think it stupid that regular people are allowed to own guns. As guns lead to shootings.
My opinions is that if the american nation wants gun they can have gun, but then they should shut up about the mass shootings and just accept them. That the tradeoff you get for guns.
Alternately they should train their children to respect and be able to use guns, like is generally required to use a vehicle. And parents and teachers should pay less attention to Facebook and more time to their children, to see if maybe they are falling off the deep end.
Never had a problem with mine using rfid, the first pistol model they made. With AC plug in, the receiver is always ready. a little silicon spray helps the locks run smoother.
Hey Bill just an FYI The RFID and punch code work completely different on AC power than they do on the battery power. On AC power RFID scans with no button press and opens instantly. Same with the button push. Just 1234 H not H 1234 H like you have to do on DC.
For the bracelet the rifd part is in the lump by the latch not in the metal decoration. Thats why it was being picky.
Hey bill thank you for all your videos.
From your years of professional experience can you please do a video on the best gun safes and locks that you would use or recommend ?
IIRC the way rfid works is it has to send a signal out to a chip which will effectively reflect the signal with a particular signature. If the safe is constantly broadcasting, it would drain the battery. I would test to see if the RFID works while being plugged into the wall because you may be able to get that continuous broadcast while plugged in.
Is there a silent mode? Seems very noisy when you are trying to get your home protection without drawing attention to your position. My house is really quiet at night, you could very well hear that downstairs at certain places, and places upstairs as well.
Yes there is, I forgot to mention it. If you hold down the "H" button for 5 seconds, it silences the beeps. Unfortunately, when you pull out your AR and allow the bolt fo chamber a round it ain't so silent... Of course, you COULD remove that safety device by removing those 6 screws...😀
Zeroing out the numbers with overlength protects from brute force attack. There is a way to type all possible iterations of 4 digits by continually typing numbers far faster than trying all possible combinations individually.
I love your reviews, we have a lot in common, we love high quality locks, Safes and guns. Gorgeous AR BTW.
Pressing the H after entering the code is a common and good safety feature, if someone gets the right combination by accident by mashing the buttons it still won't open, and it also avoids revealing the number of digits in the combination by flashing "wrong" after the number of buttons matching the length have been pushed. I see the misunderstanding of the placement of the RFID tag in the bracelet and intent being to remove the metal logo and using it as your watch strap have been mentioned, so no need to add to it. The RFID not always working without pressing a key is certainly for battery saving, I'd expect it to be always active when connected to AC power but not when on battery, either it does a check at relatively slow intervals and on some attempts you got lucky to be at the right time, or just isn't active at all without pushing a button and you possibly were on AC when it worked.
You missed the sticker on the bottom that said it was a California gun safe. In California they want you to disassemble and discard random parts from your gun before locking up the receiver and having the battery run down.
I'm kinda surprised your weapon doesn't have a giggle switch!
Regarding the safe, how difficult would it be to retrofit another cam lock? Medeco would be a pretty good choice I'd think. With that modification I'd be more than happy with it for my AR; I use a collapsible stock and single point sling, slim Magpul forend, and a Vortex Sparc AR on top. Looks like it'd fit just fine.
You'd have to get another pillow. ; }
Molding the keyfob in the shape of the Hornady logo so that it advertises what it is doesn't seem like the best call security-wise...
Having to push the reset button each time you miss the right combination is a major issue for safety. It slows down organized combination search for the right combination. Without this, with around a long string of 10 times the code you look for it is enough to find the combination. With the Reset mandatory, the string search has to include each combination plus the reset at each set of number. Much much longer.
I just bought the big vault using the same technology. I will be replacing the cylinder with a MEDICO type. I think that it is unlikely that a thief would carry a tubular lock pickset to get a $500 AR15. He could pry the entire vault from the wall due to the cheesy screws it came with. If this vault is out of sight, it would be a better option than chaining it to the wall with a padlock through the trigger guard.
I am one of those guys that goes to bed with a gun in my pocket, problem solved. The old mechanical 4 button Simplex lock is still king. No batteries, no AC power, but you need to push 4 buttons. 20 years ago Ace locks were state of the art?? Try 40 years ago! 20 years ago I could still buy that GOOD Peterson pick.
9:04 The thing about the reset is for the user to reset after batteries are dead they open the safe with a key. I’ve always wondered why they don’t place a momentary switch on the key latch to activate a timer circuit for the reset button? The timer will make it so you have to press the reset button within 10 or 30 seconds before it disconnects the reset button again. So you have to have the key turned all the way into the unlock position to activate the reset button for 10 or 30 seconds. So drilling or shimming for reset button access won’t work without someone needing to pick the lock. And with a decent tumbler and pins they might not be able pick it. I know it’s just another layer deterrent but it would be easy enough and cheap with a 555 timer circuit.
Then again some one will say just shim to get to the momentary switch on the lock, but that could be encased in a way preventing to from being shimmed. Just my thoughts.
I’m glad I watched this before purchase.
Why
Well... If you're not sharp enough to press 'H' after the combination, chances are you shouldn't wield an AR around either. 🙄
@bobwatters Guns are very definite. You have to be absolutely sure before you pull the trigger. Is it a prowler or just your teenage kid rumbling home after an alcohol debut? Or perhaps a drunk neighbor who accidentally walked into the wrong house? You need your wits about you, and if you can't open the safe chances are you don't think straight to begin with.
metal with rfid inside...wonder why it works so bad haha
having to reset the code before entering it correctly actually improves security of the combination lock
i would keep the RFID but hide it so it is not noticeable at first glance. also definitely switch the tubular into a abloy.
Bill, magnets don't work on RFID. You should see if you can easily clone one of the fobs. using either a 125Khz cloner or a 13.56MHz NFC cloner. They can be found for pretty cheap on Banggood or Aliexpress. And would pose a significant risk. If some one just breezes past your fob they could clone it and open your gun safe.
It's a home system. If they are in a position to scan the fob they are in a position to steal the fob. Also the crackhead that breaks in isnt going to know I have a safe with a rfid lock so I doubt they are going to even know there is something to scan.
@@MikeKing001 You might be right there. I don't live in the US, so I don't know how many people have rifles wall mounted in their bedrooms in case a burglar breaks in (seems overkill to me). A handgun maybe.
So I myself thought this to be used more in a security office or something. Since multiple RFID tags can gain access, and so multiple security guards.
So that's why I thought if you bump into one of the security guards you can easily clone their fob. If you have malicious intent. that seems like an easy way to access it.
But yeah, not in a home probably.
I think he might have been trying to see if the actuator could be manipulated with a magnet.
All RFID systems work by broadcasting radio waves that power the electronics in the tag. So to save battery it probably only sends out a scan pulse every few seconds when asleep, but all the time when activated.
What I think may have been happening is it's actually not reading anytime it's not been activated but the occasional activations were the keypad not having gone back to sleep yet.
Great review and video, if you’re not interested in it and you still have it would you like to sell it? I’m having a hard time finding one of these online and I was wondering why? Is there something similar that you would recommend? Thank you...
I wonder why it beeps, wouldn't a silent blink be better if you're attacked? I don't want to let any intruder know I know they are there?
There ought to be a way to disable the manual lock when there's power to the system. Yeah, it creates a problem when you can't find any of the RFID tags (depending on how long the batteries last) but it would address that shortcoming.
The (passive) RFID tag is powered by the radio signal from the reader. It makes sense not to send that all the time if it's on battery.
from the spacing of the tag to the lock... I would say this is more likely NFC not just RFID (what that means is that you can get rings and bracelets to work with it)
The tubular lock, beeping sounds, & inconsistency of the RFID tech are enough to make me pass on this. But the use/installation of that ejection port block, is a tactical nightmare! Should the need for that firearm arise, that block is guaranteeing that you WILL make an extremely loud & obvious sound when you release your bolt carrier to chamber a round! Also, when an AR platform is stored for extended periods with the bolt carrier locked to the rear, the buffer spring is constantly being compressed which can cause it to become misshapen. Hornady is heading in the right direction with this, but they have a lot of issues to address before that hefty pricetag is justified.
I was thinking the same thing about the sounds. If I think I have an intruder in the house, I want to choose if and when I make my presence known. I suppose slamming the bolt closed would send the same message as racking the slide on a shotgun.
Would people stop believing that nonsense about springs! They only wear out due to use, not just sitting there compressed.
@@Willam_J I agree about the TV cop shows where they always blip the siren when they pull up, and rack the slide on there guns, and how about the one where they dubbed in the slide sound and the character had a revolver which he carried so the hammer was pressing into the flesh between the thumb and forefinger.
But seriously, 38 years in law enforcement, we carried shotguns with an empty chamber so we had charge the gun when we took it out of the car. And, in some situations the sound did get instant attention and respect.
Very cool. My only problem with it is that rfid can be easily duplicated. If anyone owns one, I would recommend leaving the key fob in something like a shielded wallet
Since the cam locks on these things are the weakest link, can you assess if they are removable / replaceable?
Possibly are, although you'd have to gut the electronics package it's attached to, to get to it.
Are there safer replacements for the tubular lock? Or could it be disassembled and improved? Otherwise from the comments it seems as if this is a really nice thing.
Good review. Now it is time for version 2.0 of this great product.
This is all very sad to us non Americans.
Not just the fact that you need things like this, but all the scenarios that Bill's talking about as if they're a genuine possibility over there.
I don't even lock my car or my front door over here, but I do live in a quiet village in England.
Having to push H to validate the combination is normal, else suppose that the code is 1234, you push randomly 433423143123423 it opens because there was 1234 somewhere. With pressing H, you cannot just rpress random numbers.
The funniest serious video I've watched in a while.
Just wondering if the key bleeping can be deactivated? After all you wouldn't want to let an intruder know where you are whilst trying to get your weapon to defend yourself.
Very nicely explained BB ;-)
Why don't you just File/remove some material from the Hand Gard area of the shroud to custom fit your Platform? Same with your bolt extension?
Matt Warne it’s a $200 lock box nobody should have to do that and even though that’s easy and straight forward for us it’s not something everybody can do
They make smaller rail covers. You can just leave that small space empty so it can close. Leaving the charging handle back is not an issue if you train to always use it to release the bolt.
Could it be the RFID reader is disabled on battery, but remains active on AC? So when on battery, like during demonstration, the safe has to be woken up before scanning. But when plugged in it might stay in an active mode, and not need woken up?
That ejection port plug is a deal killer for me. A round chambered is a must.
You’re overthinking it.
I'm curious if that tubular lock could be popped out and replaced with something a bit more stout like the Abloy you mentioned.
That's a fine weapon, Bill.
Bill's gun has a three position selector........
Did Hornady possible put in a secret master number combination, so that if the combo is forgotten and the key and rfid chips are lost, it can still be opened?
Maybe all they need to do is take out the word 'RAPID' from their title description of this weapons case.
This isn't necessarily RFID so much specifically NFC Tags; for this reason, I wonder whether it is possible to duplicate the tags or purchase spare tags individually.
Okay, so watching your video further... The only plausible option would be to duplicate the tag's contents and hope they don't check for the tag's individual ID.
Would be interesting to see the output from a RFID debug app, to know whether these are just simple so called "NFC tags" that can be cloned or properly encrypted RFID access cards. Not that it matters, it is faster to pick the tubular lock than trying to clone the tags.
Robert Chrisman The ID of a tag is just part of the contents, easily duplicated onto a tag that doesn't contain or reveal it's ID. In terms of security, the important thing is to have a secret signature key inside that is never revealed even to the lock. The lock can then ask the chip to "sign this random number if you actually have the key". Lots of additional security features needed, but without such a secret key, tags and keyfobs are too easily duplicated.
I noticed you speak well of Abloy locks alot, I was wondering what you thought about Medeco Locks?
He's done several videos about them, they are fairly stout to picking attacks if you buy the right ones.
I keep waiting and hoping for a review of the V-Line Brute gun safe. It's very expensive, but looks like one of the best options for a handgun. Does anyone here have any experience with it?
Loyal2Liberty - I think that this would be the best. No batteries and No key. The only thing is can it be bypassed by a magnet or something slender slides beside the push buttons and feel for the right code that I don’t know. LPL and BB should look into this. This could actually be a very good safe.
Is it possible the need to hit the button before the rfid works a battery saving method? What if you try it with the ac adapter plugged in?
But why have two locks that do exactly the same thing , is the electronic part just eye candy?
will it fully secure a banana, cocked (peeled) or uncocked (unpeeled) should i need to get it during the night
I dig it except for the manual lock. Mayby block it and use it digitally instead
Obviously a lot of work went into this, but it definitely needs refining.
Remember the very first AR?
For the winner, is it feasible to replace the tubular lock with a small cylinder like a smaller abloy if it exists in protec 2, or a Medeco or something?
I would think that it is a standard dimension lock but did not have one on hand to verify, sorry.
That's okay thank you for the information!
Nice sbr I have the knights hand guard I love their quality
10 seconds in and I already know it's going to be easy to open.... That keyway..
If it is plugged in on AC power does it read the RFID chips every time? It may just be a low power usage thing to keep from draining the battery's too quickly
Another case of an electronic lock being worthless due to a mechanical back up.
They could easily make it much better by eliminating the manual lock and moving the batteries so they are easy to access, or they could make the power port easy to access and put in a capacitor instead of the batteries.
Or as BB says remove the electronics and put in a decent mechanical lock.
Try not sliding the wrist band around. Just hold it to it and it will work
H as confirm allows for longer than 4 digit combinations
I took the wristband off and use it as a watch wristband.
Not providing batteries is pretty common. If this product sits in an Amazon warehouse for a year you really run the risk of battery leakage as alkaline batteries are notorious for it. Hornady can't be responsible for the manufacture of alkaline batteries And the battery manufacturers not going to replace your very expensive equipment because of their battery leakage so it makes perfect sense. The only time this probably isn't true is when you buy something from China, they usually supply all the Batteries all the time.
608.00 bucks, go to a locksmith and get the Amsec Under-The-Bed safe.... no need to take your gunapart, and entire weapon is protected against damage or tampering.
Great review, as you say, too bad it's easy to open with the tubular lock decoder, probably won't buy it, i'm not in the army anymore and don't have a weapon to secure.
Quicker to pick it than use the bracelet.
Nicely done Bill.
If a person has trouble operating this simple lock in a high stress situation, how would they be able to operate an AR?
Muscle memory
@@csgas0 Which would also be the answer to the lock operation issue. Practice, drill, repeat a couple thousand times and the stress becomes less of an issue.
They would probably panic dump a mag and end up putting rounds through their neighbors house. Don't use rifles for home defence, its pointlessly dangerous.
Would it be possible to change the lock out with a keyed one that is more secure?
No, you really *should not* be able to press 1234 and then have an open, without the “enter” function. That would severely compromise security.
Jasper Janssen how...
No offense but those bulky pic rails are going the way of the Doe Doe bird. Time to get an Mlock rail and save some weight. That said I completely agree on the other issues.
Great timing
A grinder will work on the hinges.
If your phone has NFC (eg Google/Apple/Samsung/etc pay) there are apps you can get (for free, at least on Android) that let you clone RFID tags. NFC Tools is the one I use (Android).
Also Adafruit sells RFID rings, tags, and parts to read/write them with a bit of programming.
Hunch before finishing the video -- does the rfid stay alive/active when the ac shore power is connected?
Yep works good, never had an issue. Had it a few years now.
They should add a sensor to the keypad so it will light without having to push a button
Note to self: Don’t break into BosnianBills house in the middle of the night.
Great review Bill thank you 😎
At 6:40 you say you should be able to just press the code without pressing H first, at the same time you do just that and don't even notice.
His point from earlier was that it should ignore the first press so any button lights up the keypad and then you can immediately start inputting the code to open the lock. It's a compromise though ignoring the first button press on wake up would mean if you don't need the light there's an extra key to press between you and your gun in our hypothetical home invasion scenario. Going to the median where it ignores the first press if it's not part of the code though adds ambiguity to the process and reduced the keycode security because it allows someone trying to open it to try 2 combinations at once.
As usual great review. Wouldn't mind paying shipping;)
I thought these boxes were just designed to keep the kids away from the Guns until you have taught them all about guns.
Pity about the wrist band not working all the time, that is definitely something easier to have ‘at hand’ than try and find the fobs.👍
Excellent review! I'll pass on the "safe" though. 🙂
Isn't all the beeping unnecessary and potentially alert the intruder that you're up and about?
Yes, it is possible to silence the beep sound by holding down on the "H" button for 5 seconds. Turn it back on the same way. The beeping is the LEAST of your sound problems though. Letting the bolt slide forward to chamber a round is about 2487 times LOUDER than the beeps...😀
@@bosnianbill thanks for the reply. We're I'm from, civilians don't get access to this type of weapons, so I really wouldn't know.
Love the Colt SBR.