Battle of the Ports - Panzer Dragoon (パンザードラグーン) Show 464 - 60fps
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ส.ค. 2024
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Time Code
00:28 - Saturn
4:55 - Windows '95
7:12 - PlayStation 2
9:07 - PlayStation 2
10:35 - Xbox
11:52 - Series X
14:02 - All versions side by side
Enjoy!
#retrocore
#battleoftheports
#panzerdragoon - เกม
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VDP2, the Saturn's unsung hero.
Especially the sequel
Indeed. The floors or sea is so much better and stable on the Saturn than it is on the PS2 remake.
IMHO they may have been better off doing this, architecturally:
1. Add a system to VDP1 to hardware-subdivide specified quadrilaterals into triangles. This is because it is actually faster from an algorithmic perspective to plot 2 triangles than 1 quadrilateral, thus this would improve polygon drawing performance... or maybe not, as the conversion circuitry would have some performance impact, but the ability to draw true triangles in hardware would be a great boon.
2. Add divider and comparator circuitry to VDP1 to allow for true perspective-correct texture mapping. This would be necessary to distinguish it from the PlayStation, both to show technical superiority and because affine 2-triangle quads are much uglier than affine direct-quads, which are more similar to perspective-correct quads-this is why many Sega Saturn games (and a few exceptionally-optimized 3DO Interactive Multiplayer games) are easier on the eye than many Sony PlayStation games. (However, retain the ability to force depth-order polygons, as that is very helpful for 2D.) Now, because this would come at the cost of much of the existing pipeline, this _will significantly_ decrease the polygon drawing performance, but that's OK.
3. Transplant the DSP circuity responsible for VDP2 transparency into VDP1. With the necessary simplification of the rest of the drawing pipeline, this will _further_ decrease polygon drawing performance... put that's still OK.
...
4. *Delete VDP2 entirely and replace it with another modified VDP1 rendering in SLI.* (That is, each VDP would be rendering one half-vertical-resolution odd or even-field image, so 320 × 112 in normal operation, thus compensating for the slower fill-rate per chip.)
I recognize this would make a few effects regarding distorted transparencies and (pseudo-)reflections more difficult to execute† (for instance, it'd probably be easier to use an ocean akin to that in the PlayStation 2 version in this game), but overall, most of the VDP2's background functionality could be done with grids of polygons. 2 identical chips would be inherently cheaper to manufacture and easier to develop for than 2 dissimilar ones. Developers on such a Saturn wouldn't have to worry about the (less severe, but still present) texture-projection issues peculiar to directly using quads (like "pinched" triangle vertices or the possibility of triangles flickering into parallelograms) like IRL Saturn or 3DO devs did; nor writing sophisticated depth-sorting and culling algorithms like coders on the IRL Saturn, PlayStation, and 3DO had to; nor subdividing polygons (especially quads)/keeping poly counts high to avoid awful texture warping like PS (and to a much lesser extent other affine platform) programmers did; would be able to easily perform true transparency like PS and Nintendo 64 game-makers could; and 2D devs would do as they did on the PS (or to some extent the Neo Geo). Easier development → more software faster → more sales → more software → -the closer the execs of Sony get to fighting for their lives in the woods- you know...
But, hey, I have no formal experience or education in any of the fields I'm talking about, so it's _very probable_ that my suggested architecture would actually be worse/harder to develop or develop for than the one the Saturn actually did. And regardless if it was the best choice in the end, it _certainly_ allowed stunning effects that would be difficult to manage on the PS or even N64. (Or possibly even, as indicated with this game, *the PS2* !)
†This could possibly be fixed with a "triple buffer mode" that would use some main RAM to store an intermediate pre-transparency buffer that could then be reverse-texture-mapped and distorted.
@@grantexploit5903 1. The VDP1 mathematically has more in common with SEGA's old sprite scaling technology than it does early real time geometry calculators. Every 'face' is treated as a sprite which can be resized, skewed and morphed, using information gained from the project with Lockheed Martin that produced the Model 1 boards they were able to create an instruction set connected to a calculation system that would aim to simplify the manipulation of these 'polygons'. To achieve what you stated would have required them to use a completely different and built from the ground up VDP chip. Though the Saturn is capable of and HAS rendered in Triangles with a system based around the PS1's geometry system, but this was entirely in software. You can see it with the 3D objects on the title screen of Sonic R as well as the metal Sonic head during loading.
2. Again, the way the VDP1 handled it's 'polygons' and 'texturing' is so far removed from true 3D space calculations. But as a benefit to it's rendering system, perspective correction wasn't required anywhere nears as much as the issues we did see was due to the culling methods employed when an object or 'textured face' was leaving the screen. The easiest fix was to extend the point of culling beyond the barriers of the screen but this would have adverse performance issues on the whole.
3 and 4. The function for VDP2 transparency comes down to display buffers and not as an actual means of rendering per-se. The VDP2 is essentially an overly developed frame buffer/display buffer, targetted to give the system more functions in the post processing area to relieve the VDP1 and CPU's when it came to static elements, it's ability to manage multiple frame buffer layers also allowed developers to do crazy scanline trickery on individual layers (water effects, waving transparent clouds), massive warping and movement (VF2 and Last Bronx backgrounds) and even the swapping of data in VDP1 from the entire frame buffer (Rayman end of level animations). The calculations that permit per object transparencies in the PS1 are incompatible with the VDP1 and are not used by the VDP2, which instead of doing colour math during rendering of objects would do a wide sweep form of color math on an entire frame, which allowed VDP2 to use a more costly form of transparancy math without impacting performance during rendering of the sprites/polygons. Even if you could transport all of these functions to the VDP1 chip and double the amount of VDP1 chips, you would have to atleast replace the VDP2 chip with another capable of calculating the frame buffers.
While the Saturn is a very hostile system to develop for and it's method of rendering 3D was far from ideal even in 1994, the reliance on VDP2 was a required demand and a brilliant one that allowed developers to offload many task to it when a game was developed with it in mind. Take Tomb Raider 1 for instance, bringing up the menu was a simple matter of swapping the priority of layers while the PS1 had to freeze and dump the game render into a frame buffer, then draw the menu pieces over it, then begin to render the game again once the menu was closed, making it an element the Saturn was far more efficient in. And while you could say your solutions would have made it so the Burning Rangers transparent fire technique wasn't needed, due to the functions of the system, that technique allowed the Saturn to achieve visuals once thought impossible at a slight framerate hit. If it makes you feel better, most of the functions you describe the Saturn could have had was actually in a design prototype SEGA of American pitched to SEGA of Japan that was turned down for numerous reasons, being designed by SEGA of America technical staff and a 3rd party, SONY, with Ken Kutaragi as one of the SOA Saturn prototypes developers on loan from SONY. The history of the Saturn is weird, but yes, early specs and designs for what SEGA of America wanted the Saturn to be did eventually become the PlayStation 1 system. If that blows your mind, remember this, the reason the N64 got the SGI 3D chip was because SEGA of Japan turned it down and the CEO of SEGA of America had gotten so sick of SOJ's actions and their canning of the joint SEGA/SONY project he'd been handling, he literally gave SGI Nintendo's phone number.
@@grantexploit5903 You are trying to "fix" the Sega Saturn architecture by indirectly and directly implying it was a mistake in hardware design and that quadrilateral polygon rendering is somehow inferior to triangle set up which is a common mistake people who sip what journalists with zero understanding tended to write in articles back in the 90s and often came off as making the hardware engineers at Sega Enterprises LTD Japan look somehow stupid.
The Sega super scaler arcade boards engineered by Sega in Japan were using dual and triple CPUs and often would also double performance by using dual graphics chips and dual sound chipsets and yet those were late 80s Japanese arcade hardware architectures.
By relation the Sega Saturn hardware is a custom refined super version of those super expensive late 80s super scaler boards only that it trades blows with the cutting edge Sega System 32 and delivers superior performance to the Sega Model 1 which itself was quadrilateral polygon based... then it can get fairly decent ports from the more powerful Sega Model 2 arcade board and note that in 1992 and 1994 respectively, the Sega Model 1 and Sega Model 2 arcade boards were so expensive that to purchase a single cabinet for Sega Virtual Racing, Virtua Fighter and Daytona USA each would cost you around ten thousand dollars USD for those years.
The 3DO however was ALSO quadrilateral based polygon hardware that got smoked and grilled by the stock Sega Saturn without the 1MB RAM Cartridge or the ultimate power of the 4MB RAM Cartridge that expands the work ram and could theoretically allow game developers to make 2d and 3d graphics games that would max out the Sega Saturn visuals and really give the Sony PlayStation a hard time only back then you had the 90s staff at Sega of America who were so arrogant and clueless that if they really had their way, they would have forced you to buy 32X live action FMV CD-ROM games while they would block any of the Japanese exclusive games using a variety of excuses.
The fact is you were NEVER gonna have "Sony execs fighting for their lives" because you just do not understand the treason committed by the 90s Sega of America subsidary branch staff and how they just kept steering the company towards massive financial losses... not even two fanboy written books that are biased towards SoA staff will help you here.
The only way for Sega Saturn to have had any real success in the West was in either firing a bunch of management staff at 90s Sega of America, including Joe Miller and Tom Kalinske which in turn would have meant that their 32X pet project would never have existed... aka killing two birds with one stone and bam, the Sega Saturn gets treated more seriously as a true next gen hardware by the U.S. subsidiary branch which would carry into the PAL release better, no 32X pains means the audience back then would only see the Sega MegaDrive/MegaCD and a next gen only leap with Sega Saturn which in turn means all of Sega's internal dev teams only have to worry about Sega Saturn and not being derailed by some mad salesman into losing, wasting money and time with 32X none of us wanted back then.... unless you were a dumb kid who did not work and did not buy your own games and did not read hardware specs.
Finally... the Sega Saturn VDP1 and VDP2 do not work by themselves... they also can be used with the SCU-DSP.... and the Dual SH2 CPUs which each have their own DSPs inside... see NexTech's D-Xhird as a 3d Saturn game potential...
Also Team Andromeda are also human beings dude... they were studying the Sega Saturn hardware and making custom dev tools but their game had to be very profitable as well.. we can argue that Panzer Dragoon was very well represented in Japan... but in the U.S.? where Sega of America's staff were running a shit show? no way... if anything there were many people feeling a certain way due to the 32X just existing there and also Sega of America treating potential 1995 Sega Saturn early adopters as if they were children under twelve... in Europe the scene was a bit different but they suffered worse due to how long it took to organize Sega Europe and the delays caused by just having the PAL system standard.
Fact is Sony never beat Sega Saturn... 90s Sega of America staff did... because they harmed the launch, made excuses to delay it into 95 and misrepresented the game software while betraying the Sega fanbase of older gamers with buying power... this carried over to Sega of America's second 32X aka Dreamcast creation which turned into losing $50 USD per system sold... therefore you sell 3 million by you have to subtract $50 each and even you would be filing bankrupcy and your company would almost cease to exist unless one of the owners donated his fortune to help prevent it until a merger can happen with a healthier company.
I still remember going over my friends house when he imported a Saturn and when he put this on I had tears in my eyes. The same day I went to the local import store and bought the Saturn.
Panzer Dragoon certainly was something we'd never seen before.
That soundtrack = instant goosebumps
100% agree!!👍👍
The whole Panzer series has the most astonishing music. But that fanfare will always have a special place in my heart.
The only game that gave me a sense of feeling that I made the right choice of owning my Saturn
Ikr, the entire series was quite amazing. Just kept playing and playing it, Sega really should have kept that universe going. It's a very strong IP and the world building was excellent.
It was unlike anything we'd seen before. The jump from 16bit to 32bit really was the biggest we've ever seen in gaming.
@@RetroCore Indeed. Far more than the jump from the PS4/PS5 era...which is ..meh.
Probably the best soundtrack ever made for a game. I
I really love Panzer Dragoon Zwei, even to this day i fire up my old Saturn to play it now and then!
When i finally could afford a Saturn, Zwei was just released!
While I never played the original Panzer Dragoon, I know how important this one is for Saturn Legacy. Judging from time's perspective people keep saying that Saturn wasnt a success, because they probably dont remember all of the hype we had back then. It truly was a new experience in gaming!
It sure was. Let's not forget that in Japan the Saturn outsold the N64 and even at one point was out selling the PlayStation. That didn't last too long though.
This game must have one of the best, if not THE best piece of music ever written for a 1st stage in the last 20 years... I love it! "Panzer Dragoon" will always remain as one of my best remembrances of the Sega Saturn in the old days... never played the other versions, but this episode made me realize that the subsequent versions had to be pretty responsible... if all were done by Sega, then it's in the best hands. The one for Series X made me feel curious to play here...
But it’s already 27 years old. ;)
@@KeeperBvK2 Hahahahaha... Time passes by so fast, I haven't perceived that much!
Excellent job! Thank you for covering one of my all-time favorite games. When I first played this game on my Sega Saturn back in the day, I knew it was something special. Gameplay was intuitive and not gimmicky and the world-building and atmosphere were on a level I just did not see before. I got the modern remake and just use the classic aiming reticle option. That game looks amazing and I sure hope we get a remake of the phenomenal Panzer Dragoon 2 and the elusive Panzer Dragoon RPG so more people, including myself will finally be able to experience and complete this incredible trilogy.
I remember seeing the protype shots for this in a Sega magazine where the dragon was like a greeny colour...
My heart does belong to the sequel though and quite surprised they never ported that to various other machines.
I like Orta the most and Zwei more than this one. I do occasionally play them all and I think the Remake is pretty solid.
@@AxiomofDiscord orta is good too
I had an internal video from Sega showing around 1 minute of footage from that early CG build. It was said to have been a 32X version. It's wasn't though, it was 100% CG.
That footage showed the dragon in a mountain valley (probably the screen shots you saw) but also inside a cave and over a river.
I sadly lost that VHS tape over the years. 😭
@@RetroCore that's it!! I wish i got to see it in action. Looked totally different too what the end result was.
@@RetroCore If only SEGA had nixed the 32X or made the Saturn 32X and Genesis backward compatible it would have dominated the generation.
I had absolutely no idea there were this many ports of Panzer Dragoon.
Glad to educate the fans. 😊
I wish i could properly express how insane it was playing this game for the first time. That opening level with that music. I couldn't believe i was in my house playing this on a console and not in a arcade
I understand you. It was magical back in 1995.
Panzer Dragoon must have been a reason why Star Fox 2 got unreleased in the mid 90s.
If I remember well, the PC port was planned have options for CPU powered software rendering for Saturn grahics and support for Nvidia GPUs that could render quads.
There was a version that was packed in with a Nvidia card but it flopped.
My local Blockbuster Video store had a Saturn display unit showcasing this game on demo when the Saturn was released. It led to a lot of arguments between my friends who had rushed to get a Playstation, believing they had the better system. While history did prove that out, there was never anything quite like Dragoon on the PS1's early days for sure.
There was a blaitent rip off of Panzer Dragoon on the PlayStation that came later but instead of a Dragoon you controlled a massive turtle. I can't remember the name of the game now but it is 100% ripped off Pnazer Dragoon and doesn't look at all as pretty or imaginative.
Bought this at Japanese launch. Loved it.
Be interesting to see if we ever get the remake of Panzer 2. The 1st remake is on sale all the time for $2.00, leading me to believe that it totally bombed... We haven't heard any news on PD2R in a loooong time
The only reason it bomed so hard is because the did a crappy job. The patches have improved the game a lot since launch but it's still not right in the gameplay department.
@@RetroCore idk. I just don't think theres a lack of interest in the series tbh. The targeting ridicule is off, took me a bit to get used to it. And yeah, the game had some issues before being patched (iirc that was the Switch version that had performance issues). Even it was perfect, it likely would've still bombed. Of course, no way to know, and I personally love the series.and.wish more people.did.too, but it doesn't seem like something that has appeal beyond niche.
I had absolutely no idea there were so many ports!
That music to the first stage will ALWAYS be GODTIER. Panzer Dragoon was SEGA when a game developed by SEGA meant something grand.
In my young time final cutscene on Sega Saturn Figthing game was reward for passed with character . VF and VF KIDS for SS had got Threater mode.
I still have vague memories watching the saturn version on display at a local independent games/model kit shop after school. Couldn't afford a saturn back sadly. I did enjoy the recent remake on pc though but I've never played the original so it's nice to finally compare them. Great work putting this together. 👍
Thanks for watching.
Thanks for another great episode. That first stage and the bgm are pure Sega magic!
To this day I still remember importing the Sega Saturn version from Japan to the UK and paying just under £100 for it..
Boy was it worth it, the intro, the music just brilliant.
Always be a classic for me.
Thanks for the video and the memories 👍
If that was back in the mid-90s, you saved about $200-$300 by importing from JP. Today Japanese Saturn consoles are routinely going for as low as $55-$60.
Believe it or not, the copy of the game I showed in this video was also imported from Japan to the UK in 1995, and is still with me now. It's went from Japan to the UK and back to Japan 😄🇯🇵🇬🇧🇯🇵
@@wizkaqueefa9003
Yeah Imported back in 1995 👍
@@RetroCore
That's great and still going strong 👍. I was still at school when I Imported this and remember coming home for lunch and got delivered before I had to leave, but thought just try it to make sure it worked.
Didn't realize the intro would be that long but what a intro, just amazing along with the music.
So was late going back to school and got detention for it lol..
Those low res textures are nostalgic. The graphics kinda remind me of Elemental Gearbolt as well.
I guess they're both in the same style. King of old meets steam punk.
When I first played this game I didn't know how to use the lock on so I played through the entire game without it and wondered why it's so difficult lol
Lol, that must have been tough on your fingers.
So blood was taken from yours fingersssssss : (
Windows version, although that your capture card clearly did feel like capturing the video correctly, this is a good representation of how the game would run in software mode, 640x480, without 3Dfx Voodoo on contemporary (back then) computers😇
Pretty sure the 95 PC port did not have any kind of 3d hardware acceleration....
Pretty sure it was capped a 20 fps
@@federicocatelli8785 PC port was released in 1996. Did it had a hardware 3D acceleration support trough Glide, OpenGL or D3D? Dunno. I was only guessing. Like many games of the era (Quake, Tomb Raider, Virtua Fighter 2, MDK, etc.), Panzer Dragoon could had an update that would enable a hardware 3D support.
Lol, in that case I did a good job 😁.
I'm not sure what was gong on but my capture card just didn't like the game's output. What's worse is that it was impossible to change the resolution or framerate to something the capture card felt comfortable with.
Even editing the. ini files didn't do anything as the game would always resent to it's hard coded settings.
The game ran far better on screen than what the video capture shows. The video capture seems to be skipping every other frame for some reason.
@@JustPeasant
Never had any official patch enabling 3d acceleration (D3D or Glide)......
For me, the best will always be on The Saturn. It's where I first played the game.
This was one of the first Saturn games I ever played, at a kiosk in Best Buy or Toys R Us. I remember thinking it was very beautiful and expansive. The idea of being a dragonrider wasn't something new to me, but Panzer Dragoon really brought it to life in a way books and movies couldn't. Anyway, I never did get a Saturn, but years later I did snag the remake off GOG. I'll get around to it... one of these days.
One of the unsung heroes on the Saturn without a doubt.
Without a doubt!
The first game I got for my Saturn at launch (other than the VF pack in) loved it from day one till this very day!👍👍👍
Same here! I was using my original 1995 purchased copy in this very video on a Hitachi Hi-Saturn.
@@RetroCore that's awesome!!😄👌
After all these ports, Saturn remains the best.
A true golden classic game that belongs to the library of every Saturn owner.
I agree.
Great video for an even greater game and franchise; there isn't a bad way to play Panzer Dragoon but my top two preferences are the PS2 remake and the Saturn original. How blown away I was when first playing this game (A friend rented out a Japan Saturn before it was released in the west and I got some time with it then, probably early 1995) is something that will always stay with me. The visuals, OST, and presentation were all amazing.
Having been a day 1 PlayStation owner at the time, I bought into the UK press myth that the Saturn was rubbish at 3D.
Picked up a second hand Saturn many years later, this was first title I played, eyes opened to truth about Saturn.
Harder to get decent 3D from, but a very capable machine.
Yeah, the UK press were right up Sony's backside, especially EDGE magazine. The Saturn was a fun console and held it's own in many areas. It's just a shame many people never hit to experience what it had to offer.
Dragoon? That's horse mounted infantry. This is clearly Panzer Cavalry! :) I find it amusing how games have adopted the term dragoon to mean, a person who rides on a dragon.
Why do I have this recollection, that the Win95 version originally supported that Nvidia card, with, actual Saturn controller ports.... (It did. Smooth as heck.)
Yeah, this game has a very clever name. It's actually "armored dragon" as well. But also the player is "dragooned" into the service of the dragon in the games story. It's a play on words dragon and dragoon, I believe.
Yes, actually playing the PC game was super smooth but the output it gave didn't go down well with the video capture card.
There was a saturn accelerator card that used quads instead of triangles. There was also a Dreamcast card too from what I remember, probably for DEV or testing.
Shame they didn't make a Panzer Dragoon on Dreamcast!
I really enjoyed this comparison 👍
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nice choice! Great game this.
Surprisingly I also enjoyed the remake, especially the £2.08 I paid for it from the MS store during last Golden Week Sale.
Good show again old Bean! 🤠
That's when I grabbed it too👍
@@RetroCoreyes was a real bargain 😀
That remake actually looks like a prerendered video of sorts for a 32bit version lol
It does, doesn't it 👍
There was a nice evolution of the on-rail flying shooters going from SNES' Star Fox straight through SS, PS1, N64, and into the next generation after that with many titles. Thinking back to the Jaguar and it could have had such a game in Cybermorph but instead thought exploring mostly empty space rather than arcade action was the way to trump Star Fox.🥴
2:29 Well said, so often I hear people say "low quality" when describing old texture maps and that is all wrong, I've seen high resolution textures that look terrible.😉 Still a beautiful SS title and something every fan of the platform should have in their library, speaking of which I should get on that heh. The FMVs are still expertly paced and animated even if the models and resolutions used have aged, that intro was suspenseful.
I think Windows and SS could have had a good cross platform relationship with a little more middleware effort, would have allowed more of JP only games see more NA release on that platform.🤔
The PS2 one looks to be running in a higher screen resolution of 640x240(Double width resolution.) than the SS which is a nice visual sharpening. Yeah approximating the infinite 2D plane the SS could render optimally is a hardware thing to replicate on other hardware especially just one generation over. That second PS2 version sure is weird and underwhelming.🤨
Understandable using the Windows port as basis for the OG Xbox bonus version, it's going to run the best on that hardware. With the Xbone one it demonstrates something that needs to change in psychical production, they need to delay optical disc stamping for a few months while they iron out the kinks in the digital release Eg. recent Zelda has that too with it's earliest patch.
Regarding the physical media point. They should just delay the game outright until it is ready to ship. That's what they did in the past.
I blaim the PC master race for this attitude of releasing crap then patching it. After all, that's where it all started and was praised as being a good thing. I disagree with that.
@@RetroCore Seems to become so normal now but I just don't see it stopping unfortunately. Just thinking physical media is more niche now as a market that we'd prefer a more complete version when disc stamping happens. Sad when it's just a matter of a few months for improvements.😒
It certainly is very sad 😢
These games were great and showed off what the Saturn could do well but my heart belongs to Panzer Dragoon Saga. It’s almost a crime that it will likely forever be locked to the Saturn, doomed to (relative) obscurity…
Beautiful game. I wish the sequels got as much love when it comes to ports. I never was able to find the windows version. I wanted to pick it up when I played a friend's saturn copy. My only problem with the latest remake is the pricepoint with the lack of extra content. That sort of thing doesn't really fly anymore...pun intended lol
They did add in the Pandora's box stuff in a later patch. Not sure if that made it yo Switch but it is on the other versions.
Be nice to see a collection of all the games. Especially Saga
The series x version, the visuals....... 😳😳😳😳
I can’t believe Sega called that trash running on the PS2 a “Saturn version”. Awesome comparison video though!
I guess they thought people would be fooled?
Always wanted to play this but never did
Ah, you missed out on a trully unique game of the time.
Still remember using my SEGA SATURN game to play the music in my DISC MAN lol....
Nothing wrong with that. Some beautiful music in this game.
Great video!
One version which is sadly missing is the R-Zone version. Pretty sure it's not emulated yet.
I wonder if that is the ssme as the standard Tiger version.
Love Panzer Dragoon for the Saturn Mark. What a beauty of a game it is and what made this game even lovelyer was the soundtrack. Just a true masterpiece it is bro. 8^)
Anthony...
The soundtrack is one of the all time classics for sure.
Nice BotP! That game impressed me so much at the moment. I think that the PS2 ports are a bit lazy made.
To be fair, the PS2 port was a budget release.
In PC, there is Nvidia NV1 version. However, it is very hard to find now.
I love Panzer Dragoon!
I had no idea there was a modern Xbox version. I'll be downloading that later I think! Now if only someone would give Panzer Dragoon Saga the same treatment!
Same here. I only noticed it a few weeks ago. It was quite the surprise.
It was on sale for like $2.50 or $3.50 about a month ago and I just couldn't pull the trigger. I didn't know about the remake on PD Orta so I will try that out on Series X and see how it is.
Saturn still the best :)
Panzer Dragoon was the first game I saw and played on the Saturn, on a system they had set up at a Sears not very long after the system released here. It was a pretty "wow" moment game, playing something that looked that good it on a home system. I've not played the PC or PS2 releases nor Remake, which I kind of passed on with the initial complaints but should go buy a copy. I only have the Saturn release and then one included in Orta. Fun game and really cool looking for the time. Orta is my favorite in the series, but the original and Zwei are cool too and the I'm fairly evenly split on which of those two I like more. I never did play PD Saga though.
Zwei is a lot more technicaly impressive on the Saturn for sure. Higher framerate, more effects and amazing chip generated audio.
nice one
Thanks
The PS2 remake is that the enhanced version is best played on the LCD TV. The lower-resolution version is best played on the glass-screen CRT TV.
It doesn't make a difference. The game came our when most people were still using CRT screens.
The Xbox remake looks so beautiful but the game play isn't as good as it should is a same its such a gem to look at
I agree. They controls, especially the aiming is just not right at all.
that series x remake footage gave me motion sickness
Not sure why as it was running at a silky 60fps.
So many memories with this title. Unfortunately, the latest port feels cheaply made, despite some "impressive" instances. The gameplay still feels loose (the original feels much tighter to play) and the artistic direction is vaguely based on the original game - I wish they had stuck closer to that vision, one that was based in Moebius' works, such as Arzak. E.g the first stage's emptiness was not a product of the Saturn's limitations, but an intentional choice akin to the barren scapes of Arzak's Desert B. In the remake, they populate it with too many elements that make it feel like a very different, busy place, taking away from its intended serenity and mystique. Excellent work, as usual Yakumo :) - your friend from the AG Forums of old
Ah, the good old AG forum. That was a place to learn so much about unreleased or odd gaming systems.
Have the Saturn version and the switch version. Solid Rail shooter by SEGA!
Was curious of home much thought you put into a battle of the sequels show. Id totally watch that too.
Sadly the sequals are limited to Saturn only. Or Xbox only in the case of Orta.
2:25 IMO, Panzer Dragoon holds the title of the best-looking home 3D game released before (at least) Quake and Super Mario 64 (the earlier title holder being December 1994's The Need For Speed).
5:40 Smoothly? 6:20 Oh.
9:35 Not really seeing the flat ocean... Oh. Perhaps "static" would be a better word.
12:05 Never heard Stadia being pronounced as /stɑːdiə/. I mean, the advert shout was "/steɪdiə/!". Now I'm wondering whether to be prescriptivist or not...
12:10 Modern gaming in a nutshell... Another problem of digital distribution.
13:00 Are you sure that's being rendered on the console itself?
14:15 No flyey intro on the most modern version?! Literally unplayable. /s
it sort of reminds me of space harrier on rails......but I remember this spawned a ton of dragon riding shumps .....drakengard series being an example
That's basically what it is.
I'd like to try the Windows 95 version. Funny I was just playing Panzer Dragoon Remake today on PS4/PS5 just finished episode 2.
Nice coincidence 👍
You forgot to mansion the excellent port for the Diamond edge 3d windows 95
Control issues aside, the current gen remake is gorgeous and I can't express how much I appreciate that Sega still shows love for their IPs from over a decade ago. From Alex Kidd to Virtua Fighter, they know their games hold a place in the hearts of so many, and even if they aren't selling millions, it's nice they keep trying regardless. 💙
I like Panzer Dragoon but I like eve more Panzer Dragoon Zwei
Zwei is a great game.
The Switch version has pointer controls combined with regular, which are much better.
Try playing the remake on PC with a USB Saturn pad. After you tweak the aiming sensitivity a bit, I think you'll find it plays much better using digital input.
I only have remake on the Series X. 😢
@@RetroCore It's $2.49 on Steam until Thursday at 10AM US Pacific time. It also tends to show up on Fanatical for $1 every now and then.
Glorious game, one of the first imports I saw in early 1995 on the Saturn when my brother had one. Loved the soundtrack as well. Had to get the remake when it came out on the Switch, but was disappointed by the different soundtrack and targeting issues, you'd think they'd be able to get it spot on these days, but sadly, like with Monkey Ball, you have to go back to the original console version to enjoy.
Didn't the switch port get any updates?
@@RetroCore Yes it did get the updates, I am now on 2.0 and can select the original sound track! I really should have done that first instead of never playing it again😅
Even with Saturn being the weakest, the graphics of Panzer and its sequel were one of the best in the 32bit era
I agree. The first time I saw that first stage on Panzer Dragoon was a jaw dropping moment. Such an amazing step up over anything we had seen before.
Huh...why did I forget they ported this game...?
The remake does have sliders to adjust the reticle movement, I was able to get it to a comfortable setting.
It does? I must have missed those in the settings. I'll go back and take a look.
@@RetroCore Check out 'crossshair sensitivity' under input settings. I find 0.65 good; I do have the Saturn version, but offhand I couldn't tell you which number equals the Saturn's dpad sensitivity.
Now.... I ve bougth PD orta and I have to find out how to play PZ 1 in my Series S
Just complete Orta on any difficulty setting 👍
I hope they did not give up Zwei Remake
I'd like to see that as well but if they do it, it needs to be done right. Not like the mess the first remake started out as.
What about the switch version..ok you said switch lol 🤘🏾 Nothing beats the Saturn 🙏🏽
I love the 32 bit generation.
It's a shame you are unable to run the Windows 95 NV1 accelerated version, which is basically the Saturn's VDP 1 and 2 setup as a 3D accelerator card for PC. Due to a feature of the VDP 2 chip, the Saturn and NV1 versions are the only versions of this game to feature true infinite planes which was the main function that directed the development of this game following it's movement from 32X to Saturn. For best example of how this difference in rendering works in the Saturn's favor look at the horizon line in the first level on all versions, you can see a shift in hues plus a greater distance before the detail is truly lost that is missing in all other versions, with the PS2 ending the plane at the skybox via brute force rendering and the Xbox and PC using a transitional transparent gradient to hide the edges of the planes. The modern version hides this 'seam' via additional objects and fogging effects. I will still praise the VDP 2 for allowing fully textured infinite planes as no other technology has achieved the same as effortlessly (even the fabled Mode 7 has it's limits) and demands to be brute forced.
The VDP2 was so awesome. It's why so many Saturn games can look quite solid.
I’ve never understood why the dragons have guided missiles; shouldn’t they be shooting fire? I’ve also never understood why we have all these remakes of the original, but nothing for Zwei or Saga.
Because lasers! Lasers are cool. 😀
They are manufactured biological weapons akin to fighter jets that's why.
Saturn >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the rest
Ah that intro and first level music. Best part of the soundtrack imo. And yeah VDP2 schools them up to the remake, which FINALLY gives this almost abandoned series some well deserved love (eventually!).
Sega Saturn Series X.
Is this in someway related to Alisia Dragoon?🤔
No.
Not at all apart from both games being awesome.
was that the original panzer dragoon running on series x when you accessed it through orta? i had no idea it had the original too!
Yep, that Orta footage was recorded via my Series X.
@@RetroCore nice another gem for my series x!
ive been waiting so long for this one!!! one of my favorites period, the art, the music, the gameplay.. i started with the ps2 version , loved it- but mostly for the music and art, than bought Orta, fell in love with its world and gameplay even more, unlocked the original, and really got into the original while re doing it there..later went back and emulated the saturn games.. id love to see a retro core on the original xbox just so you can talk about PD Orta..its presentation and gameplay are incredible, but it seems like they cranked the difficulty way up, especially to get the higher ranks... going back now i can only play a level at a time without feeling kinda drained, but again that superb music, art, and world keeps drawing me in..at least with the original you can just bask in its awesome world and enjoy it..
I've completed Orta a few times now. I play the original Xbox disc on my Series X these days for extra resolution and HDR. The game still looks beautiful.
I've also been playing Crimson Dragoon on the series X but I feel it is ruined by the stupid twin stick controls.
@@RetroCore Orta will never age out...its gorgeous...Crimson Dragoon does look incredible, but it doesnt allow panzer dragoon controls? oh well, ill wait and pick it up on sale when im done plowing thru the Technosoft Saturn library.. keep on doing what you do, it really is worth something!!
Games published by Forever Entertainment are known to be very unpolished on the launch day. The most recent targets was Magical Drop VI and Front Mission 1st, and back with PD Remake, it was no different.
I still hate how their house of the Dead remake has the wrong music.
When will you do the Lion King on BOTP?
I don't know. There are many games to cover and many requests. It will be covered at some point in time.
6:23 "as smooth as the Saturn version" is it also only 20 fps? I remember the sequel being smoother.
Panzer Dragoon Zwei is a lot smoother.
Yep the '95 PC Port (the retail one)was capped at 20 fps
Was there not a Game Gear version? Not sure it counts or not, seeing how it plays nothing like the Saturn version.
There was a Game Gear game called Panzer Dragoon Mini. That's pretty much a different game though.
No GG version 😂?
Absolutely not 😂
He pasado un montón de horas con la versión de Windows y me lo he pasado un montón de veces. Es uno de los juegos de mi vida. Hay que saber que la versión de Windows permitía una resolución mucho mayor que la de Saturn. No me gusta la nueva versión por qué tienes los gráficos demasiado recargados, soy un poco retro. Supongo que ahora mismo la versión más aconsejable es la mejorada de ps2 ya que tiene un buen framerate use puede poner a una resolución muy alta en el emulador. Aunque la versión original será la preferida por los nostálgicos, la versión de pc se puede instalar en una máquina virtual aunque con algunos problemas
What about steam version
You do realise that steam means PC / Windows, right? Steam is just the store front, not a format.
During the Xbox series X footage I mention the game is also on PC, PS4 and Switch.
The original Xbox version is the closest to the original Sega Saturn.
Man, the remake was such a letdown. I would have thought the gameplay should have been the easiest part to nail down. I won't keep my hopes up for the Zwei remake
At least they fixed a lot of issues. Well, besides the Switch version.
The "remake" is a deplorable version.
For whatever reason, the Switch version is regularly on sail for under three bucks. Is it that dogshit of a version?
As with many Switch ports, yes it is. I don't know if it was ever patched to the same level as the other consoles but I did read that it runs worse.
@@RetroCore Sometimes I think Sega's passive aggressive side comes out, when it comes to porting their stuff to modern Nintendo consoles. The Switch runs games like Doom Eternal, Witcher 3 and World War Z just fine, yet struggles with $25 nostalgia bait?
I have been feeling a real need to play through the entire series lately, I played them all on release but never finished any of them and really want change that as I have fond memories playing them. I do own the steam version of the remake but I still think I'm going to start with the Saturn original just so I can appreciate how the games evolve through the Saturn trilogy.
I've completed the original and Zwei many times but only ever completed Azel or Saga as its known in the West, once.
If you ever get a Saturn, do yourself a favor and have it modded with a ODE like the fenrir so you can play the games off an SD card.
The prices for the authentic games are way to high nowadays.
I really wish they made a Panzer Dragoon game for the Mega Drive. Heck, 2D Virtua Fighter 2 is a thing!
Panzer Dragoon from an SVP cartridge would have been amazing.
There is a game gear version....
I doubt it would have been any good if the Game Gear version is anything to go by.
the important thing missing from this game that ruins both 1 and 2 for me is the lack of game, as in difficulty or challenge. its one of those on my need to fix list. love it but hate it