Overhead Pattern Intro How to do it!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 มิ.ย. 2024
- Overhead Pattern Intro How to do it!
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FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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0417
I’ve watched the Navy trainers fly this pattern over my house for years. The Blue Angels do it too, one after the other and it’s super cool. Every Sunday evening during the summer the Blues come in from their weekend airshow at high speed over the field and break one at a time out of formation into the landing circle. I never get tired of living under the downwind.
Thank you for putting this video up. I use the overhead many times at our local non towered airport. Many times bringing in a flight of airplanes. Makes it easy work and I can keep the “fast movers” (compared to the Cessna traffic) separated from each other by holding over the field higher waiting for a gap in traffic big enough to bring in my flight without causing angst for the student pilot traffic around my flight.
An actual engine failure at high altitude above an airport will put the pilot in exactly this position: the need to execute a series of descending 360 turns to enter the downwind leg of the (emergency) landing pattern. Well worth practicing!
I actually enjoyed that the audio stopped because we did these in the Fleet without saying a word on the radio.
Quality!!!
Great to see it in GA. That's what I learned in Naval Aviation flight school and what I flew my entire career in KC-130s ....... Thanks!
I live near MCAS Miramar and enjoy seeing 2 and 4 plane formations come in and break one after the other over the runway into the pattern.
4:03 hahaha Scott my man! “We’re gonna do a shallow turn because we are going so slow.” “Don’t need more than 45º bank here.” 😂 Awesome airmanship. We are lucky to have access to your experience.
It's a great manuever and fun to watch. I once saw a C141 do a 360 overhead at Osan AB, Republic of Korea from the flightline. As a student pilot at the Lowry AFB aero club, my instructor and I called it a day early once when we heard the tower at Buckley AFB (ANGB in 1973) repeat a call with a mass arrival of 25 F100s over the tower VHF channel. We taxied over to the tower and watched the show from there... the 120th TFS was returning from a deployment to Nellis.
Good video, hope people watch it. I’ve been asked twice this year which (instrument) approach im doing when I call my initial.
Very helpful. Thanks for posting this. I’m teaching a client in a Steen Skybolt currently
And this is why Scctt should never have posted this video.....
Scott, I do the initial in my RV 7 at home base. I have done the initial in our CE560 to do exactly what you said, mix with traffic an get set. Works well when needed and the people understand the procedure. Problem is there are pilots that have difficulty with a normal pattern entry. So there is that….
There are always folks that have trouble fitting in;)
"Hey who's doing the fighter jet type flying in the circuit?"😁
Thanks Scott for the discussion and demonstration.
I agree about the curved approach. Rectangles not useful. I don't agree about cutting into downwind from overhead. It's unexpected in GA and that's not good.
A word of caution: Realize that a lot of GA pilots will not be aware of these approaches and will have no idea what some of these radio calls mean.
Correct, because it’s not an approved pattern entry procedure
So call upwind or straight-in at pattern altitude instead of initial.
Pray show me where it is written as unapproved.
GA pilots, their instructors and commercial pilots will not be expecting an erratic sudden change in direction and non standard radio calls directly above the field.
Pretty darn dangerous I'd say.
@@FlyWirescottperdue how you worded that-it’s not unapproved…I don’t know if any entries are “unapproved” , but it’s certainly not encouraged , kind of like calling out a 10 mile straight final, or cutting in on base at an untowered airport..people will think you’re unsafe. Chapter 8 in the airplane flying handbook lists the two entries that all VFR pilots should use at untowered
Hmm very interesting method. Might take an instructor with military experience and practice this. That descent rate from high key is a bit much for me though 1000fpm+ 😮
Thanks for this, Scott. I do the overhead break landing from time to time at my small field in my RV-8 when there is no one around. Really fun, and a good challenge, like the power off 180 landing in the commercial PTS. My overhead breaks are a bit tighter, and seeing how you fly it helps me out.
That’s a great way to do it! Glad to help!
G'day Scott,
Well, um...; while I can understand how
"Normal" the
Overhead-Break may
Feel...,
For people who have retired from
Military Flying....;
To be honest, it makes about as much actual
"Sense"..., in the
Randomly unscheduled and wildly
Overcrowded Skies of
General Aviation in the USA,
Today...;
As if some old
Bush-Pilot featuring
Whiskers growing out of their Earholes showed up at
Sydney's Kingsford-Smith
International Airport,
Expecting to come on down and
"Drag the Runway" by flying the length in Ground-Effect, dipping their Mainwheels on the Bitumen to
Test if the Surface might be able to
Actually take the Weight when eventually touching down...,
"Because that's how I
Learned to do it, when landing at an unfamiliar
Location,
Before committing to putting the Aeroplane's Weight onto the Ground... ;
And
That IS what's advised in the Beaver's
Training Manual/Op's Procedures Handbook ; so it definitely isn't illegal...!".
It's not
Quite
The Aeronautical equivalent of
Sovereign CitiZen-ism ;
But, perhaps, maybe the days when such old-fashioned,
"Once Were Warriors..." type
Displays of how things
Used to be done,
Once upon a time...,
Would be well-regarded,
Have all gone away...;
And now instead of being admired for
Your ("trademark"...?)
Crisp, clean, no-nonsense
"Overhead-Breaks"...;
You may well find yourself being berated for,
"Buggaring-up the Flight-Paths of every other Aircraft within the Circuit, by persistantly insisting on making
NON-STANDARD
Approaches...;
Which
Confuzzlicates all the poor silly little Plasticated Norms..., who now constitute the
Majority
Of Humanity...., and so
Therefore whatever they decide is to be
"Normalised" is
Whatever we will be expected to
Fit in with...
Because,
Confused Norms
Trying to fly on
Autopilot, and/or
Trying to fly
Like an
Autopilot ;
Are wildly
Dangerous
Norms, because they've been
Trained to expect
Predictability,
Rather than
Originality...
Welcome to
Growing
Old, mate...
The Thymes
They be
A'
Changeling...!
On a happier topic...
Regarding the old question of the actual viability of
DIFFERENT Ways of attempting the
Legendary infamous
Turning Of
Impossibility...
A delightful Englishman has a YT Channel named,
"Flying For Fun - Trecanair"
And this morning I watched his latest Upload,
"Aeronca C3 - The Impossible Turn ?"
He
Demonstrates how to do it, the Orthodox way, from 300 ft, taking about a minute at minimum Sink-Rate of 350 Ft/Minute and that would never work...
But, by poking his Nose down to 45° below the Horizon, & rolling on 45° of Bank...; on-camera he did 180° around the Aximuth in 15 Seconds with maybe 120 ft of Height-Loss...
And he repeated the manoeuvre, going both ways.
It's what he says he has done
In real life, when his
Ancient JAP Engine has gone quiet on him on Takeoff.
"Nose-DOWN, ROLL in & TURN
HARD..., ROLL Out,
Pull Out,
Line-up,
Flare..., &
Touch-down...."
Or,
Words to that effect.
Rather than trying to
"Conserve Height"..., while gliding, and turning, in a Powered Aeroplane which has suddenly gone silent when climbing away from the Runway...
I suspect that, while the actual Heights, Airspeeds, Sink-Rates & Degrees per Second going around the Azimuth Card will vary...; his recipe of a
45° Dive with 45° of Bank will
Either
Return one to the Runway recently departed...
Or
Demonstrate the
Impossibility of reaching that Goal - and
Highlighting the pressing
NEED to raise the
Nose above the Horizon
And
Flare before
Arriving
Short of the Runway - but with Wings level, not stalled, not Spinning, and still
Under Control at
Impact...
I like his thinking...
And, what's your
Take..., on
Leaving Lockable Tailwheels
Unlocked, while alighting in
Big Old Conventional Taildragging Multi-Engined
Hairygoplanes ?
As much of a
"No-no-NO..!"
At least, as it would be,
To go
Taking off with
Full Landing-Flaps
Selected ?
Perhaps ?
That man
Dan,
Appears to be
On a very
Bad trajectory....
The
Cornfield Inversion was a
Walkaway event.
The Tree beside the Runway
Meant
Multiple Fractures &
Concussion...
Bad Shit
Cometh, generally,
In dollops of
Three, y'see...;
So the
Next time he may well be
Transferred to the
Daisy
Up-pushing Brigade,
It kinda seems, to me...
Which is a worry.
But the Choices are all
His to
Make.
Such is life,
Have a good one...
Stay safe.
;-p
Ciao !
Hey, Jarhead, we lost the sound about half-way through the video.
Can’t do voice over in the road.
@@FlyWirescottperdue no worries, pictures tell a thousand words. My boss/flight-instructor taught me how to do an overhead approach when I was in 9th grade.
He also never let me touch the power anytime after the break until roundout/flare/touchdown.
Did this in training in the Navy as a Flight Surgeon, works great in a low wing aircraft but the runway is blocked out by the wing in high wing aircraft such as C182rg I fly now.
It works in high wings to, you just have to use other things as references for a short while. I’ve done it in C140-C182s, Husky, Stearman, etc. Not a big deal as you might think.
Thank you for that Scott. Enjoyed that. With a fast aircraft I might like to come in below pattern altitude and climb turn to shed speed, like 180ish to 140 with a 45 deg to get to 140 gear speed, but uncertain if a towered field would be okay with the request -- I guess they could always decline I suppose.
Tower controllers know about Overheads, as you say request entry say 2-300’ below pattern altitude.
Great video! That said, if I performed an overhead at my home airport I would get flamed so badly...
So it's hip to be square?
Try it when there is no traffic in the pattern.
This is very helpful- the PHAK/AFM don't really explain this maneuver very well. It seems to make a lot of sense to use this maneuver in a tactical setting and in a jet because it lets you maintain maximum velocity to the field, dump a lot of energy quickly to configure for landing, and then land in a relatively small space/short time. I'm not sure I understand how it makes it easier to handle high traffic flow, or why I, in my Citabria or Skyhawk, would ever find this to be the better choice.
Seeing the geometry of the turn flow in real time is a much better way to manage your energy in the final turn. A rectangular pattern is conducive to misjudging the turn. I use a curved final turn in high or low wing airplanes. You don’t have to use the Initial entry to fly a curved approach.
You don’t know what you don’t know.
@@FlyWirescottperdue I think we're in agreement on the superiority of a 180 degree approach over a square pattern- it's actually my preference to do power-off 180s when I have the pattern to myself. I don't think the initial entry is particularly useful in my case for losing kinetic energy because I have so much more drag to use. I guess I'm still confused about your remarks on deconfliction and spacing in the pattern with this maneuver. Is that idea based on military aircraft flying standard speeds, and initiating your outbound turn based on the traffic's bearing to you?
@@irwinrussell60 perform the break to roll out in trail of the traffic. If you can’t do that carry through and reenter. Or only do it when there is no traffic.
Thanks Gunny. As an Army helicopter pilot I never got to learn that. I can see how the fixed wing services could handle a lot more traffic that way. Right there at Dempsey Army Airfield (Ft. Wolters), the most active airport in the world at the time, we lined up in a daisy chain and just hinted at the pad and moved on to parking. We were scattered out at multi-pad stagefields all the way to Possum Kingdom Lake but all came into the one pad at Dempsey at end of day.
I’ve done a lot of flying at Mineral Wells. I didn’t know it was called Dempsey Field, thanks!
@@FlyWirescottperdue Dempsey was 14 miles west of Ft. Wolters and just east of Palo Pinto. I think I landed at Mineral Wells when flying the pipeline just south of the airport and just south of Navy Dallas and crossing Meacham to the tank farm just east of Meacham.
It was that big field with Mx buildings. It’s still there, used by the farmer now I think.
Rounded turn, constant rate turn, racetrack, oval,poweroff 180 whatever you want to call it is safer than a 90 degree turn base to final...although it creates some visibility problems, but it is my much preferred final
It is the overshoot on base to final , that gets pilots killed. They initiate a steep turn to get back to final but failed to compensate for the stall speed of a 45 or 60 degree bank and too pow to recover . The rectangular traffic pattern is dangerous.
We will be so far advanced we will be using teleportation yet still disputing pattern work, entry etc. smh. Thanks for the video Scott!!
Hey Scott, at my home airport there is a lot of military contract training (AAL program) and 360 overheads are flown at 1,500 AGL. How would that change what you show in this video?
Sound stops at about 5:40 for me
Hey Scott, there is a lot of military contract training at my home field but to deconflict with other traffic 360 overhead patterns are flown at 1,500 AGL. How would that change what you show in this video?
Use a faster descent rate, or wider spacing and spend more time in the turn.
I was really looking forward to this one but no sound on the second half
I love reading the haters comments
What are your speeds during your downwind, roll to base and then roll to final along with your descent rate?
It's basically a normal pattern after the break except your flying a constant turn from downwind to final. What speeds do you normally fly on downwind, base, and final? Initial is as fast as you feel comfortable with. For piston aircraft, that big fan on the front acts like a huge speed brake when you pull it to idle. So you can come blazing in, break, and you still may need power before hitting downwind. Probably somewhat dependent on type.
What Kong said. Normal pattern for your airplane.
@@FlyWirescottperdue I fully understand that what I meant was your speeds. You fly initial over the runway more than likely around 140 kn. When you turn around two downwind, you obviously slow down while maintaining pattern altitude to gear speed. You then are constantly making speed reductions in the turns until you were on final with, gear, flaps and roughly I would assume your approach speed of around 90 kn. Are used to watch military aircraft do those patterns and they would seem to be able to adjust airspeed and altitude within the circuit unlike general aviation that seems to be step-by-step on each leg of the pattern.
I continually reduce speed to my target on short final of 81 KT’s in my Bonanza.
I saw that when the speed dropped below 90 in the final turn to base, you dipped the nose more. But what I couldn’t fathom was that you were not looking at the instruments but more outside for visual reference. Was it your experience and instincts that kicked in? Maybe I’m making a mountain out of a molehill, but you may say that I’m conditioned to expect you monitoring the instruments more.
In the visual pattern I am outside the airplane. Check my airspeed but that’s all for inside (except for gear).
do you keep the speedbrake on the whole time after you use it?
I don’t have a speedbrake in my Bonanza.
Scott - always enjoy your videos. After you correct the audio maybe you can add in some words of warning. At my airport, we have a wannabe military RV owner who enters the pattern this way every time - complete with the “break left”. The unfortunate part is that we are a heavy student training and glider operations uncontrolled airport and his entries have rattled more than one student flying solo in the pattern trying to figure out what he is doing.
It seems their instructors are doing them a disservice by not explaining it then.
I am ex (not wannabe) military RV owner and do them all the time BUT only when there is no other traffic in the pattern. Have a talk with the guy and tell him your concerns.
Why?
It’s non- standard and not stabilized.
If all you fly is stabilized approaches will you be ready to put the aircraft where it needs to be when your engine quits?
So is breaking the speed limit in your car, but I'm pretty sure everyone does that all the time. And that's normalization of deviance :-)
Stabilized approaches in light airplanes are a myth…. At least in respect the airline definition. I would add the idea of maintaining a constant descent angle can only be applied in a no wind situation. In anything else I’m afraid it is a setup.
No sound after 5:30?
Can’t do voice over in the road. Summary at the end.
Nice but wish you had sound.
Didn’t talk about safe speeds at all?
Fly a normal pattern for your airplane.
No sound second half ?
No, traveling and can’t do VO.
I had an idiot at my airport in a high performance military training aircraft call out "initial point". I had no idea what he was talking about. Next thing I know he comes screaming right up beside me as I'm climbing out. Military tactics, have no business being used in a GA pattern/airport. Guarantee some idiots will be out there trying this today and think it's legit for a GA airport.
You’ve got to fit into the traffic pattern and not endanger others no matter how you enter. No excuses for barging in. I think I even mentioned that.
no sound starting at 5:40.
That is just B-Roll.
Joining upend is a standard common manoeuvre for circuit entry! This procedure should NOT be promoted, you are creating a danger situation as normal pilots would be doing it as taught🤮 If you are that close to landing as in short final mixture should already be rich, a go-around is a busy time so it’s just a confirmation it’s full rich!
Nope.
I have no idea why anyone would ever do this. I've been flying for 30 years and never seem anyone do this. Certainly no one in a GA pattern would expect or understand this. This video is likely to encourage idiots to try this. Just don't understand why you post this on a GA oriented website.
Just don’t do anything new!