@@cam5376 I had the tennis ball on the string from the ceiling. She is supposed to touch it right to the windshield right where the mirror is attached.
My Dad flew Hellcats during WWII and Panthers in the early '50s. Stick and rudder days. He did a round the world cruise on the Tarawa in 1954, it was an unusual cruise in that they lost no aircraft on it.
Love those old D.O.D. films from the late 40’s - 70’s, which were made at Lookout Mountain AFS in Hollywood. They have a certain look and sound to them that holds a lot of nostalgia and were simple and easy to understand. Today’s training films seem hard to follow and overly confusing, which isn’t beneficial to new generations of recruits. Keep it simple!
Yes, they seem like parodies when you here this type of narration. Very similar to MOD and public information films in the UK. They're far better IMO. Understated, and they presume you can concentrate for more than five seconds without a change in visuals or camera angle.
My grandpa flew Bell helicopters in Korea, ran out of gas once on final approach to a carrier, and it was so close he scraped the skids off on the stern of the ship. Another foot or two lower and you wouldn't be reading this now.
@@paulc7486 Grandpa had the option of ditching in the sea, but then the two wounded Marines strapped down on the outside would've drowned. He weighed the odds and morality of definitely losing two Marines to probably losing three Marines (including himself), rolled the dice, and got lucky.
The Lockheed L1011 had a similar system to PLM called Direct Lift Control (DLC). When the flaps were lowered to the landing position, all the spoilers raised to an intermediate position. Then as you made pitch inputs with the control column the actual pitch remained the same but the spoilers modulated up or down to change the flight path along the glide slope. I seem to remember the spoilers still worked differentially to aid the ailerons with roll control. Worked like a charm.
It did work like a charm. The DLC was used later in the Tomcat so I am surprised to hear the statement that "every airplane designed since the Wright Brothers." The L-1011 goes into the DLC range when
I came from Air Force Parents. Dad was in SAC before the merge, and Mom delayed her retirement from Hickam Logistics due to the 1st Gulf War. (She got a lot of overtime as a civilian worker). I have to say that US Naval Aviation is badass. Props to our Navy and Marine folk! As always, thank you for your continuing service!
Everytime you post these carrier landings videos it reminds me back in the early 70’s of watching my dad’s 8mm film of his Hawkeye landing on the Connie on station off the coast of Vietnam. Looked like fun as a kid but thinking about it now it must of been a pretty violent stop.
The old saying I heard (back in my days in VT10) was that Naval Aviators (tactical) can do everything an Air Force pilot can - plus they land on that little flight deck....
In my days with VF-102 (before Ed'ward' was there) at a bar in Scotland after flying the Mach Loop, I was told our friends in the Air Force "Flare to land, squat to pee".
In full disclosure, I’m not a pilot but a surface line officer. In 1963 the Navy installed the SPN10 system on the Midway. This was an automated landing system using a precision radar beam locked onto the nose wheel. There were approximately 50 successful traps with Paxriver aircraft. The system was installed on our F4 squadron but to my knowledge no traps were accomplished. Word was the pilots said if their hands weren’t on the stick then they would be on ejection handles
I was a radar ET aboard the USS Forrestal in 82. Our Automated Carrier Landing System (ACLS) was the SPN-42. Never worked on it myself, though I did supervise the people that did part of the time. The way it was explained to me, as the pilot approached, the radar would get a lock on the aircraft, taking control of it at 5 miles out. That would put the plane on the glide slope properly positioned. Then, at about 1 mile out, control was returned to the pilot, who actually put the plane on deck. I was further told that the radar could, in theory at least, also land the plane, but we weren't certified to that level. Also, one of the two F4s we lost that cruise was due to it hitting the ramp during a night recovery. Since they used the ACLS during the night recoveries, we had investigators in our shop going over maintenance records, interviewing the techs, etc, for weeks afterward. They ultimately ruled it pilot error. Nobody survived that crash. I saw the immediate aftermath (radar shop was in the island), burning pieces of wreckage scattered across the entire recovery area, fantail to island.
The SPN10 was full auto. During initial trials it was determined that the radar beam was moving on the aircraft skin thus no good reference point. Solution was a cone reflector just above the nose wheel. Problem solved.
Spent time, when I was not in the mushroom locker. On the fan tail or on the pointy end under the bridge watching aircraft. Between port and starboard watches. When it was our turn at plane guard. Sometimes on the fan tail a flying fish would land on the helo deck. The 1st Helos on the Crommellin was HSL 20 & 21 WestPac 1985. The 3rd & 4th of the SH60Bs. HSL 41 had fun times in Earnest Will Those were a much better ride than a Huey. Or a S-3. Sorry,,, I got in the habit of not making long tapes for radio.
If I remember correctly, Mode 1A was fully automatic. All aircraft could use the ACLS (Mode 1, not 1A) for the data, displayed needles, etc. once it was installed on the carrier AND integrated into the aircraft display systems, but only certified aircraft could go full AUTO where the CV would control the aircraft flight controls all the way to touchdown. The PLM in this video seems to be pilot controlled, with control surfaces being manipulated by the landing system mode in the aircraft, controlled by the a/c flight computer, not the CV.
The Spn10 was the first Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS) used on carriers. This system was replaced in the early 70's by the SPN42 which did do fully automatic landings used by pilots in the fleet. In 1984 the newest version of ACLS called SPN46 was installed on the JFK CV67 which provided greater reliability and used by fleet pilots. The SPN46 has gone through numerous upgrades over the years and was supposed to be replaced by a system called JPALS a more GPS based system starting in 2014. I have worked on three systems, and I'm retired now but understand that system will be upgraded to incorporate "magic carpet" into the ACLS Mode I(auto approach) commands.
The Lockheed L-1011 did something like this on an ILS approach. When the Glideslope was captured, moving the yoke forward or aft, did not move the elevator, it moved the spoilers (on the wing). The "lift" was changed without changing the Angle of Attack (or airspeed) of the aircraft. Hats off to Lockheed. The L-1011 was decades (or more) ahead of the competition. And while the complexity of the jet made it not economical, it was truly an amazing aircraft.
I had to laugh at the training film which perpetuated the myth that you make a carrier approach in a crab since the carrier is constantly moving to the pilot's right. Back in the days of iron men and wooden decks when I was flying the F-8 Crusader ( a particularly difficult airplane to land on a carrier), the ship's navigator in consultation with the Air Boss was able to put the wind right down the angle nearly all the time if there was a bit of natural wind for him to work with. Consequently, we lined up with the center-line and flew directly into the relative wind (coming right down the angled deck) without any crab just like every carrier pass then and now. Airplanes fly relative to the wind and if that wind is lined up with the runway, no crab is required and that is exactly the same on a stationary runway as it is on an angled deck. Of course, if there is a cross wind, you must fly final in a crab to stay on center-line and that is the case with a crosswind relative to a conventional runway or in the rare case of no natural wind at sea when the navigator has no choice other than to put the wind is down the axial deck.
Ever played DCS? Are those old jets as difficult to trap in real life as their sim counterparts parts? The Tomcat for example compared to the Hornet is night and day. Actually it’s not even comparable. Fly by wire, HMQS, ILS, ACLS, auto throttles. But aside from all the bells and whistles, fly by wire is the biggest difference I noticed between gen 3 and 4 jets. Would like you take. Thanks.
I haven't flow anything with a jet engine but .... You're saying you don't have to make any allowance for the fact your 'runway' is itself moving left to right? Would I be right in thinking you're best lined up into wind and you have a small touch of aeliron to compensate for the 'its all moving left to right' but that hint of stick is so 'second nature' its almost below conscious level?
@@babboon5764I haven't flown anything that wasn't a simulator but... No aircraft on this planet gets to fly relative to what it's landing on. The wings and the rest of the air frame are carried on the body of air that is quite likely moving at sea. It's basic trig to take the wind speed vector, and break that into two components that gives you a heading for the boat at a given speed where the lateral component relative to the body of air becomes zero. My frame of reference there comes more from designing simulated guidance and flight control systems, where steering the boat to neutralize crab is simple if you have enough wind. That doesn't account for gusts, and most importantly doesn't stop the deck from moving up and down. As far as not noticing the slight crosswind adjustment, most of the planes landing on the carrier in the last 40 years have a HUD that's going to make that movement blatantly obvious. I can't say whether pilots begin to automatically disregard the markers on their HUD to account for crosswind using their gut, but it sounds like a dangerous recipe. Hopefully I've said at least one thing wrong enough, a real naval aviator will come set the record straight.
@@babboon5764regarding the HUD, what I'm saying is just looking forward you can see where your nose is pointed, and there's a flight path marker that shows you exactly where the plane is going to end up. If your aircraft and your runway are both moving left at the same speed, you can align the flight path marker to the centerline of the runway and with no change in course it will stay aligned. If the wind is also moving left at the same speed, the water line or boresight or what have you shows you the nose is horizontally aligned with the flight path marker, there is no subconscious trim for crosswind going on.
The L1011 had DLC or Direct Lift Control. Once established the spoilers deployed 7 degrees and the elevator did not move. Pushing forward on the wheel caused the spoilers to increase to as much as 14 degrees. Pulling aft the spoilers would go as much as stowed. The planes attitude did not change. I’m surprised that late’60s technology took so long to be applied to a fighter.
@@jamesburns2232 the sim instructors will fail various components at various times, some significant but even if at 400 ft You don't get a GREEN GREEN callout you go around. We were moving at one football field per second, so things happen fast.
I remember a time when there were two flying F-35As on the planet and no Cs. I was in the control room for many of those early test flights. There was that time when AF-2 needed to catch a wire with our tiny Air Force hook. That was pretty exciting before the fact, but our test pilot made it look easy, and there was not much to talk about after the fact. Then there was that time we were asked to engage PLM for a landing. We Air Force types were having a hard time figuring out why this thing was needed, but were assured that our Navy bothers and sisters thought it was pretty cool. Our Edwards AFB "deck" is 300' by 15,000'. Thanks, Ward, for connecting the dots.
PLM notwithstanding, anyone that can land an airplane at 130/140 knots on a few hundred feet of moving steel at night in the middle of the an ocean is one he** of a pilot. They truly are the best of the best!
A relative was a wild weasel pilot that flew in North Vietnam to have the same fire so they could be targeted. He said when he would fly towards the sun to try to get away from the Sam's that he was monitored for heart rate, and his heart rate didn't go up as much trying to get away from the missiles as it did when he tried to land on the ship
As some in the navy and the interim have insisted. To some things, there is only one right way to do it. Adding or subtracting a step will absolutely result in failure.
8:08 - That's not how I interpreted what DW said. My interpretation of what he said is that PLM/MagicCarpet changes the longitudal stick function to control flaps and leading edges instead of the horizontal stabs. Basically it makes the F-18 do what DLC (direct lift control) did for the Tomcat - adjusting the lift of the wing to help the pilot make instant corrections on the glideslope instead of having to spool engines up or down to make the same corrections. I don't think he's saying you put the FPM where you want to land on the deck and the PLM does the rest.
That's how it works, but the end effect is what Ward said. During development, when new pilots asked how to use it, the response was always "just put the thing on the thing". Meaning, put the FPV on the piece of the deck you want to land on
Very good to watch. Heck, I would not want to try landing the Tiger Moth I learned in, but the last I flew was a Piper Cherokee and if I had no other choice this would give me confidence. In daylight with a complete glass sea
A friend of mine was one of the leads on Magic Carpet development for Boeing. I had a fascinating discussion with him last summer when we visited. I have come across a Magic Carpet brief delivered by Pax River test team. And Magic Carpet is how drones get aboard the ship too. thanks for the video!
I like that old training video, I created similar material for the TRSS schoolhouse at Beale for U-2 pilots. You had to stall that plane to land it. The few times it was tested on a carrier must have been nerve wracking.
Love this video. No way I could put an aircraft down on a carrier and do so staying in one peice or not drowing. My USAF C-130 hat is off to you carrier jocks!
Check out the vids of a Herc variant landing and launching without cats and arresting wires. They were testing the Herc for possible COD duty. There was something like 20 landings/launches with progressive weights up to 125,000 pounds by adjusting fuel load. It proved it could deliver over 10,000 pound payloads to/from the boat. Flown by a Marine pilot with no multi-engine experience.
Says the bloke who lands in rockeries for a living whilst people wearing table cloths shoot at you. OK a C-130 might not have a whole lot of clearance at the wingtips but ........... 'Both pretty good' is my suspicion
@@everettputerbaugh3996 yes, navy pilot, USMC KC-130F, almost 30 landings max of 121,000 pounds. One attempt at a 85,000 pounds gross came to a stop in just 267 feet unarrested. Thanks for the correction.
Ward, It might be worth a quickie at some point about why ILS cannot meaningfully be "a thing" in carrier aviation for us civilian folk out here who keep hearing about "autoland" (which isn't as "auto" as many think) and wonder why the Navy doesn't do it. (I get it, but that's because I understand how ILS works…and why that's not compatible with mission requirements.) If you already did that then a link would be useful.
@@bobharrison7693 Not that I'm immediately aware of. That said, I haven't done a full breadth search of the family tree yet. Given how long my branch of the family has been in North America all kinds of things are possible. My grandfather served on the Oriskany, which it appears Larry may have served on 20 years later… (There aren't many of us Northup folk, so based on the assignment & rank it is a safe guess.)
It's true, small adjustments in vertical position relative to a glideslope can be made using Direct Lift (here using camber control). PLM magic carpet is nice! The recent accident of an F-35 landing on the Carl Vinson shows how mode confusion is now a big issue, as that pilot thought he was in full PLM, but instead had failed to activate it, and the aircraft drifted a bit.
6:44 although you make a landing you are significantly fast in your Hornet landing footage here. The velocity vector should be *trimmed* inside the "E-bracket" and the FCS will maintain the angle of attack for you leaving you free to focus almost entirely on lineup and power
Seeing that old video reminds of the A7 landing 🛬 on the carrier at the end of the opening song in Top Gun. I guess if one is confident enough to land on a carrier, he must really want to be a Navy pilot.
Those approach methods are helpful for as a corporate jet pilot as well! Small corrections, scan and trust the instruments.. as always your videos are the best Mooch!
I'm thinking of your novels, and the character of Creepy, and his methods. This makes me laugh, because that would probably be me in an alternate universe where I'm an LSO.
AEROSPACE ENGINEER HERE: Have a look at that footage at 9:10 and as the Hornet is just over the other plane WATCH the control surfaces and the adjustments being made to the wings. The Elevators are easier to see but if you go to full screen and slow playback speed you can see the wing flap movements just before the plane goes behind the C-2 Greyhound. I now work in industrial control systems and that's some seriously impressive control algorithm work.
Ward, are there any ship stabilizing features that help with ship roll/pitch? Some cruse ship companies advertise "underwater wings?" that help with ship stabilization. Keeping passengers more comfortable. This episode was good poop. Thanks.
I like that you were patient in letting the video run so we can absorb it all and are making this a series vs. trying to cram too much in a short video. Can't wait to see the next ep!
Any guy that has completed carrier landings has my eternal admiration! Hard enough in my uncle's day when the Fairy Swordfish was standard in the British Fleet Air Arm - his group of 24 trainees lost two aircraft and a learner while still on a land base practise field marked out as a carrier deck complete with island. Double, triple difficult in fast, heavy jets! To me that featured approach looked far from Positive Attitude till very, very close in - yer fantastic touch down. Hats off!
Ward, fantastic information. That training film explained a lot, get a real sense of why pilots had to practice (if you will allow that word) even with PLM appears to be an art form rather than an absolute. Always learn something new after watching your videos. Thanks again!😎
Lockeed had "Direct Lift Control" on the L-1011. Biased the spoilers a small amount up on final. First few degrees of column movement gave more or less spoiler and no pitch change.
I attended a speech at the High School alma mater of a flying Admiral. At Fairborn High School, very near to Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton Ohio. Naturally, very many Fliers, mos'ly USAF Fliers, attended. At an Officer's Club reception later that evening, the consensus was... Navy Fliers are "a cut above" any Other Fighter Driver. 🙂 Rick Bonner Pennsyltuck
WOW.... That is great. You know the L1011 (1970's) called Tristar's Direct Lift Control used spoilers deploying and retracting to maintain the glide path, rather than elevator. It was also the first to use auto throttles. It was ahead of its time but was not a success. It was using a lot of analog control to do what today is easily done with electronics and flyby wire. Still pretty cool.
A great segment! The training film is directly applicable to the A-4, F-4 and EA-6B. The F-8, not so much. The Crusader's lack of speed stability and its attendant propensity for an insidious decel complicated the problem and resulted in a lot more pitch and throttle movement. (the French Crusaders, I believe, had DLC [direct lift control], the granddaddy of the PLM). When I got to Prowlers and big decks, it was like I had died and gone to heaven.
I don't know Mooch, with PLM and future improvements to it, kind of makes the aviator a bus driver and having to learn more of what NFO's do for battle space management since that is where its going. Good vid. Thanks.
Are you sure? It's a workload reduction tool, just like autopilot. Autopilot doesn't mean I can stop flying the airplane, but it does mean I can pay more attention to other tasks vs. trying to maintain level flight in addition to other tasks.
This system is similar to flying the old L1011 and now the B787, which uses spoilers to make changes on the glideslope. The AOA of the plane never changed. Makes shooting approaches so much more stable.
Love your program🎉! I served in the US Army long ago, but have always been fascinated with Navy carrier air ops. I've always heard of the "Meatball", but what is it? Is it a red light indicator that the pilot zeros in on or what? I appreciate any comment. Thank you all
mikemiura7740 The "Meatball" is an amber light that is part of the OLS (Optical Landing System). The OLS has a split horizontal row of green lights(datum lights) and the glide slope light is a vertical fresnel lens system between the datum lights . The fresnel lens projects an orange light beam up the glide path. Hence being called the Meatball. If the plane is on the glide path, the pilot sees an amber light "meatball" between the green datum lights. If the plane is above the glide path, the pilot sees the meatball above the green datum lights and conversely, if he's low the meatball will be below the green datum lights. If he gets real low he will see a red flashing light way below the green datum lights and the LSO (Landing Signal Officer) will be hollering on the radio for the pilot to get power on the airplane and get back up on the glide slope or possibly be Waved Off ( Go Around) on the approach.
1:04 I think that the groove is the entire portion from the start to landing. Unless something significant changed from the 1960s to the 1990s in the naming of the phases of the approach, the training video has a major error-it has "start," "the middle," "the groove," "in close," then "at the ramp." When I first learned about grading passes in 1992 or so, the only phases were "at the start" (X), "in the middle" (IM), "in close" (IC), and "at the ramp" (AR). Rarely, a grade would include "LIG" for "long in the groove" (meaning a late turn from downwind). Did the phases change? It makes no sense that there are almost always LSO comments for the IM and IC portions but never any "IG" comments except "LIG." Still, it seems that "the groove" cannot be after the middle. It either is before "in the middle" or simply refers to the entire approach. (I'm a land-based naval aviator, retired.)
DCS guy here so forgive the ignorance - So PLM is used in conjunction with ATC and when activated it's disconnecting your nose authority from the flight stick and is using alternate control surfaces to maintain your AOA in to the deck? Basically, you just need to point the flight path marker at the crotch of the ship and your primary flight inputs are both in a secondary mode that disconnects if you bolter? I'm having a bit of trouble visualing stick input in PLM vs normal.
Point the flight path marker at the target wire, not the crotch. In PLM fore and aft stick moves flaps not horizontal stabs. PLM disengages as throttles are advanced to mil at touchdown.
It's really great to see a major change implemented in Aviation that both reduces workload AND increases safety. The thing I always hated about working in Aviation was running into the old "establishment" or "organizational" response: "we've always done it this way, we're not gonna change it now..." Because no matter how well researched and studied a situation is, changes in technology might very well merit a change in S.O.P.
I flew Lockheed Tristar's for a while it had an early form of direct lift control using the flight spoilers, we were told at the time the only other aircraft to have this system was the F14. In some ways it made landing the L1011 harder than other large machines as the small forward pressure on the yoke close to the runway would cause a firm to hard landing.
Looks like a lot of potential for stalls and FUBAR, especially at night with a pitching deck in rough seas. I could drop my slick just about anywhere with last second stick input. A stall in a fighter is essentially flying an anvil, because inputs are so delayed, oops!
Taking 'the bleedin obvious' as my signature characteristic ...... You still have to manage speed with considerable precision I would suppose Flaps can do much - but only so much after all
Ward, Wasn't the Tomcat ahead of its time with the wing spoilers? Was it called DLC? And didn't Grumman/Pilots have to fight to get that active on the planes? I think I remember hearing they had to compare landing data and showed that using the spoilers was a no-brainer.
DLC didn't eliminate the need for power and attitude corrections like PLM does. Plus the flight path indicator in the Tomcat wasn't accurate enough to point at the landing area like Super Hornet pilots do now (because of the Tomcat's relatively inaccurate IMU).
That is what I was reminded of when I saw that training video! I always crashed, never once landed. My dad could some how land every single time. I never figured it out.
Have nothing but respect for the intelligence and skill of your mates, Ward. I wonder; did you ever bump into my friend Lt. CDR. Chuck Hertzler who flew Nam...I believe F4? He is the epitome of the dedicated Naval Aviator and gentleman.
@@WardCarroll Thank you kindly for your reply! You can check this history out as well...my First Cousin, Major Kenneth Wine Jr. was among the pilots in the first jet squadron of the newly minted USAF at Luke AFB and later a Nellis AFB. He flew the F-86 in Korea and later the F100 Super Saber in Europe and North Africa. Also, my Maternal Uncle was one of the last surviving 'Humpsters' of WWII, Captain John Bentley (RIP). Can't help but have an affection for all you folks who have a history flying.
The training video reminded me of a time in my service as a Navy SAR helo pilot. We were on a detachment to the USS Kitty Hawk in the early 90’s as she was coming out of the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard for sea trials. While we were usually droning around in circles in Starboard Delta, in this case they’d asked us to fly the meatball glideslope for several sorties to help calibrate the meatball. During the day it wasn’t a problem to respond to differing requests from the air boss to fly the H-3 in the groove, but it became quite problematic one horizonless night when they asked us to go into a high hover while on glideslope at about 400’ a couple hundred yards aft of the ship! Sorry boss. No go.
@ 8:00, DW Kinley said that the final approach descent path is controlled by using the flaps to control wing camber. Makes sense since the lift coefficient of the wing can be affected directly by the flap position. I have only flown general aviation aircraft, and have set the flaps before lining up for final approach. Do you see a problem with using the PLA method with small light aircraft?
watching landing videos it may be perspective but the "meatball" never seems very bright, is that just the angle of the camera or its inability to film it properly?
Ward, we love your work here. Please interview a USN helo pilot. Plane guard, perhaps. Let's hear their perspective on landing a helo on a moving deck at night and in bad weather. Hey, we're all one team and respect what those flying "stiff wing" a/c contribute . . . but other pilots & aircrew are important too. Especially if you have a "liquid landing" and see a SAR helo arrive overhead with a rescue swimmer coming down on the hoist.
As a Swede, we do not have aircraft carriers BUT obviously I'm a great believer in the meatball!
I am part Italian... But I'm also a great believer in the meatball! 🙂
Well played, gentlemen!
I agree Meat Ball Yum Yum
Great work Mattias
Bork Bork Bork Bork!!!!
I really need to set up a version of the meatball in the back of the garage so my wife doesn't hit the sides of the garage door opening... again.
I have a white mark of the front of a shelf and another on the wall behind, keep them lined up and it works great.
@@cam5376 I had the tennis ball on the string from the ceiling. She is supposed to touch it right to the windshield right where the mirror is attached.
😂
Someone is fixing their own dinner tonight! 🤣
Maybe you could just have leave it on the taxiway for you to take over at that point?
My Dad flew Hellcats during WWII and Panthers in the early '50s. Stick and rudder days. He did a round the world cruise on the Tarawa in 1954, it was an unusual cruise in that they lost no aircraft on it.
Which Squadron was your Dad in? My dad flew Panthers with VF52 in the early 50's too.
@@richardkaiser3756 Not too sure, VF102 sticks in my mind.
Love those old D.O.D. films from the late 40’s - 70’s, which were made at Lookout Mountain AFS in Hollywood. They have a certain look and sound to them that holds a lot of nostalgia and were simple and easy to understand. Today’s training films seem hard to follow and overly confusing, which isn’t beneficial to new generations of recruits. Keep it simple!
Yes, they seem like parodies when you here this type of narration. Very similar to MOD and public information films in the UK.
They're far better IMO. Understated, and they presume you can concentrate for more than five seconds without a change in visuals or camera angle.
Yea that’s where they did the moon landing
You can’t get more Americana than this and Alex Jones USA 🇺🇸
Same with the old firefighter training films: the guys kept it all simple!
They move awfully slow for “new generations of recruits”
“It doesn’t make it easy, it just makes it less difficult.”
If things were easy, everyone would be doing it. Great words of wisdom!
@@Yomamakizmanuts put it better than I could.
My grandpa flew Bell helicopters in Korea, ran out of gas once on final approach to a carrier, and it was so close he scraped the skids off on the stern of the ship. Another foot or two lower and you wouldn't be reading this now.
2 more litres of fuel & there'd be nothing to tell too 🤔
@@babboon5764if only combat was perfectly choreographed.
@@paulc7486 Grandpa had the option of ditching in the sea, but then the two wounded Marines strapped down on the outside would've drowned. He weighed the odds and morality of definitely losing two Marines to probably losing three Marines (including himself), rolled the dice, and got lucky.
@@BackyardDogPark9862 Your grandpa sounds like a badass. If he’s still with us, thank him for his service.
The Lockheed L1011 had a similar system to PLM called Direct Lift Control (DLC). When the flaps were lowered to the landing position, all the spoilers raised to an intermediate position. Then as you made pitch inputs with the control column the actual pitch remained the same but the spoilers modulated up or down to change the flight path along the glide slope. I seem to remember the spoilers still worked differentially to aid the ailerons with roll control. Worked like a charm.
It did work like a charm. The DLC was used later in the Tomcat so I am surprised to hear the statement that "every airplane designed since the Wright Brothers." The L-1011 goes into the DLC range when
I came from Air Force Parents.
Dad was in SAC before the merge, and Mom delayed her retirement from Hickam Logistics due to the 1st Gulf War. (She got a lot of overtime as a civilian worker).
I have to say that US Naval Aviation is badass. Props to our Navy and Marine folk!
As always, thank you for your continuing service!
Everytime you post these carrier landings videos it reminds me back in the early 70’s of watching my dad’s 8mm film of his Hawkeye landing on the Connie on station off the coast of Vietnam. Looked like fun as a kid but thinking about it now it must of been a pretty violent stop.
So the guy with the last name "Converse" gets the call sign "Keds". Brilliant.
You were expecting "All Star"? At least it wasn't Sketchers or New Balance...
Or “Chuck” or “Chuck T.”
The old saying I heard (back in my days in VT10) was that Naval Aviators (tactical) can do everything an Air Force pilot can - plus they land on that little flight deck....
In my days with VF-102 (before Ed'ward' was there) at a bar in Scotland after flying the Mach Loop, I was told our friends in the Air Force "Flare to land, squat to pee".
8:55 Being that guy in green to the right as the f-18 approaches, that view would never get old. 10:55 This was a cool view.
It also never gets less dangerous.
I actually miss that. The view, the smells, the entire process of carrier flight ops. I was a brown shirt. Plane captain at VFA-131.
@@Funk_Reactions rock on!
@@WardCarroll Amen, but it's the edge that's sharpest, right?
@@Funk_Reactions Cat steam , Cv 61. Green Shirt
In full disclosure, I’m not a pilot but a surface line officer. In 1963 the Navy installed the SPN10 system on the Midway. This was an automated landing system using a precision radar beam locked onto the nose wheel. There were approximately 50 successful traps with Paxriver aircraft. The system was installed on our F4 squadron but to my knowledge no traps were accomplished. Word was the pilots said if their hands weren’t on the stick then they would be on ejection handles
I was a radar ET aboard the USS Forrestal in 82. Our Automated Carrier Landing System (ACLS) was the SPN-42. Never worked on it myself, though I did supervise the people that did part of the time. The way it was explained to me, as the pilot approached, the radar would get a lock on the aircraft, taking control of it at 5 miles out. That would put the plane on the glide slope properly positioned. Then, at about 1 mile out, control was returned to the pilot, who actually put the plane on deck. I was further told that the radar could, in theory at least, also land the plane, but we weren't certified to that level.
Also, one of the two F4s we lost that cruise was due to it hitting the ramp during a night recovery. Since they used the ACLS during the night recoveries, we had investigators in our shop going over maintenance records, interviewing the techs, etc, for weeks afterward. They ultimately ruled it pilot error. Nobody survived that crash. I saw the immediate aftermath (radar shop was in the island), burning pieces of wreckage scattered across the entire recovery area, fantail to island.
The SPN10 was full auto. During initial trials it was determined that the radar beam was moving on the aircraft skin thus no good reference point. Solution was a cone reflector just above the nose wheel. Problem solved.
Spent time, when I was not in the mushroom locker.
On the fan tail or on the pointy end under the bridge watching aircraft.
Between port and starboard watches.
When it was our turn at plane guard.
Sometimes on the fan tail a flying fish would land on the helo deck.
The 1st Helos on the Crommellin was HSL 20 & 21 WestPac 1985. The 3rd & 4th of the SH60Bs.
HSL 41 had fun times in Earnest Will
Those were a much better ride than a Huey. Or a S-3.
Sorry,,, I got in the habit of not making long tapes for radio.
If I remember correctly, Mode 1A was fully automatic. All aircraft could use the ACLS (Mode 1, not 1A) for the data, displayed needles, etc. once it was installed on the carrier AND integrated into the aircraft display systems, but only certified aircraft could go full AUTO where the CV would control the aircraft flight controls all the way to touchdown. The PLM in this video seems to be pilot controlled, with control surfaces being manipulated by the landing system mode in the aircraft, controlled by the a/c flight computer, not the CV.
The Spn10 was the first Automatic Carrier Landing System (ACLS) used on carriers. This system was replaced in the early 70's by the SPN42 which did do fully automatic landings used by pilots in the fleet. In 1984 the newest version of ACLS called SPN46 was installed on the JFK CV67 which provided greater reliability and used by fleet pilots. The SPN46 has gone through numerous upgrades over the years and was supposed to be replaced by a system called JPALS a more GPS based system starting in 2014. I have worked on three systems, and I'm retired now but understand that system will be upgraded to incorporate "magic carpet" into the ACLS Mode I(auto approach) commands.
The Lockheed L-1011 did something like this on an ILS approach. When the Glideslope was captured, moving the yoke forward or aft, did not move the elevator, it moved the spoilers (on the wing). The "lift" was changed without changing the Angle of Attack (or airspeed) of the aircraft.
Hats off to Lockheed. The L-1011 was decades (or more) ahead of the competition. And while the complexity of the jet made it not economical, it was truly an amazing aircraft.
Great content Ward. Loved the old film and the PLM explanation. Quite the contrast in technology.
In my youth, we would watch pilots in F4s practice at El Toro on a mock carrier deck. It was impressive.
Still very complicated - like you said: "Only the best get to do it". Thanks for another great video!
I had to laugh at the training film which perpetuated the myth that you make a carrier approach in a crab since the carrier is constantly moving to the pilot's right. Back in the days of iron men and wooden decks when I was flying the F-8 Crusader ( a particularly difficult airplane to land on a carrier), the ship's navigator in consultation with the Air Boss was able to put the wind right down the angle nearly all the time if there was a bit of natural wind for him to work with. Consequently, we lined up with the center-line and flew directly into the relative wind (coming right down the angled deck) without any crab just like every carrier pass then and now. Airplanes fly relative to the wind and if that wind is lined up with the runway, no crab is required and that is exactly the same on a stationary runway as it is on an angled deck. Of course, if there is a cross wind, you must fly final in a crab to stay on center-line and that is the case with a crosswind relative to a conventional runway or in the rare case of no natural wind at sea when the navigator has no choice other than to put the wind is down the axial deck.
Ever played DCS? Are those old jets as difficult to trap in real life as their sim counterparts parts? The Tomcat for example compared to the Hornet is night and day. Actually it’s not even comparable. Fly by wire, HMQS, ILS, ACLS, auto throttles. But aside from all the bells and whistles, fly by wire is the biggest difference I noticed between gen 3 and 4 jets. Would like you take. Thanks.
I haven't flow anything with a jet engine but ....
You're saying you don't have to make any allowance for the fact your 'runway' is itself moving left to right?
Would I be right in thinking you're best lined up into wind and you have a small touch of aeliron to compensate for the 'its all moving left to right' but that hint of stick is so 'second nature' its almost below conscious level?
@@babboon5764I haven't flown anything that wasn't a simulator but...
No aircraft on this planet gets to fly relative to what it's landing on. The wings and the rest of the air frame are carried on the body of air that is quite likely moving at sea.
It's basic trig to take the wind speed vector, and break that into two components that gives you a heading for the boat at a given speed where the lateral component relative to the body of air becomes zero.
My frame of reference there comes more from designing simulated guidance and flight control systems, where steering the boat to neutralize crab is simple if you have enough wind.
That doesn't account for gusts, and most importantly doesn't stop the deck from moving up and down.
As far as not noticing the slight crosswind adjustment, most of the planes landing on the carrier in the last 40 years have a HUD that's going to make that movement blatantly obvious.
I can't say whether pilots begin to automatically disregard the markers on their HUD to account for crosswind using their gut, but it sounds like a dangerous recipe.
Hopefully I've said at least one thing wrong enough, a real naval aviator will come set the record straight.
@@babboon5764regarding the HUD, what I'm saying is just looking forward you can see where your nose is pointed, and there's a flight path marker that shows you exactly where the plane is going to end up. If your aircraft and your runway are both moving left at the same speed, you can align the flight path marker to the centerline of the runway and with no change in course it will stay aligned. If the wind is also moving left at the same speed, the water line or boresight or what have you shows you the nose is horizontally aligned with the flight path marker, there is no subconscious trim for crosswind going on.
Actually, it was OOD and JOD (usually connlng the ship) who put the wind right down the angle.
The L1011 had DLC or Direct Lift Control. Once established the spoilers deployed 7 degrees and the elevator did not move. Pushing forward on the wheel caused the spoilers to increase to as much as 14 degrees. Pulling aft the spoilers would go as much as stowed. The planes attitude did not change. I’m surprised that late’60s technology took so long to be applied to a fighter.
The F14 had it
All right, I think I’m ready for Carrier landings.
Midway 76&77 in V2 AG we called "in the groove" and "on the ramp" during recoveries, on our sound powered phone circuit.
I'm a retired Captain Airbus guy, auto throttles are so nice lol. Great post Ward.
Autoland capabilities are so good that even DEI pilots can do it.
@@jamesburns2232 the sim instructors will fail various components at various times, some significant but even if at 400 ft You don't get a GREEN GREEN callout you go around. We were moving at one football field per second, so things happen fast.
I remember a time when there were two flying F-35As on the planet and no Cs. I was in the control room for many of those early test flights. There was that time when AF-2 needed to catch a wire with our tiny Air Force hook. That was pretty exciting before the fact, but our test pilot made it look easy, and there was not much to talk about after the fact. Then there was that time we were asked to engage PLM for a landing. We Air Force types were having a hard time figuring out why this thing was needed, but were assured that our Navy bothers and sisters thought it was pretty cool. Our Edwards AFB "deck" is 300' by 15,000'. Thanks, Ward, for connecting the dots.
PLM notwithstanding, anyone that can land an airplane at 130/140 knots on a few hundred feet of moving steel at night in the middle of the an ocean is one he** of a pilot. They truly are the best of the best!
Ward, great story about technology helping pilots when they most need it.
Anyone doubt it takes courage, brains, and skill to fly an airplane, let alone land on an aircraft carrier?
Bro you better keep a towel in your back pocket to help all those pilots clean themselves up after you've glazed them
No...
No doubt...
🐦
at night, in bad weather, with a pitching deck...
Yep - Doubt it takes all 3 unless you're trying to land on a carrier
WHY?
I get by with just a bit of skill and possibly a whisker of luck 🙄
A relative was a wild weasel pilot that flew in North Vietnam to have the same fire so they could be targeted.
He said when he would fly towards the sun to try to get away from the Sam's that he was monitored for heart rate, and his heart rate didn't go up as much trying to get away from the missiles as it did when he tried to land on the ship
Thanks, Mooch. This one definitely had the feel of one of those old "You Were There" episodes. 😎
As some in the navy and the interim have insisted. To some things, there is only one right way to do it. Adding or subtracting a step will absolutely result in failure.
8:08 - That's not how I interpreted what DW said. My interpretation of what he said is that PLM/MagicCarpet changes the longitudal stick function to control flaps and leading edges instead of the horizontal stabs. Basically it makes the F-18 do what DLC (direct lift control) did for the Tomcat - adjusting the lift of the wing to help the pilot make instant corrections on the glideslope instead of having to spool engines up or down to make the same corrections.
I don't think he's saying you put the FPM where you want to land on the deck and the PLM does the rest.
Auto-landing is in the next version; says the sales department.
The navy routinely "auto-lands" drones vey successfully with minimal issues.
That's how it works, but the end effect is what Ward said. During development, when new pilots asked how to use it, the response was always "just put the thing on the thing". Meaning, put the FPV on the piece of the deck you want to land on
"Ejection Vectors" and "The Man from LOX" were two classic titles that have stuck in my mind.
"Ejection Decision" was another great one.
Very good to watch. Heck, I would not want to try landing the Tiger Moth I learned in, but the last I flew was a Piper Cherokee and if I had no other choice this would give me confidence. In daylight with a complete glass sea
A friend of mine was one of the leads on Magic Carpet development for Boeing. I had a fascinating discussion with him last summer when we visited. I have come across a Magic Carpet brief delivered by Pax River test team. And Magic Carpet is how drones get aboard the ship too. thanks for the video!
I like that old training video, I created similar material for the TRSS schoolhouse at Beale for U-2 pilots. You had to stall that plane to land it. The few times it was tested on a carrier must have been nerve wracking.
" the ball is not keeping up with the swing of the deck " ... oh boy that sounds fun . Oops forgot it's a Controlled crash .
Nice , but wonder if My Captain, & Idol, Admiral Diego Hernandez, CV-67, 1980 would be "IMPRESSED" ?
Love this video. No way I could put an aircraft down on a carrier and do so staying in one peice or not drowing. My USAF C-130 hat is off to you carrier jocks!
Check out the vids of a Herc variant landing and launching without cats and arresting wires. They were testing the Herc for possible COD duty. There was something like 20 landings/launches with progressive weights up to 125,000 pounds by adjusting fuel load. It proved it could deliver over 10,000 pound payloads to/from the boat. Flown by a Marine pilot with no multi-engine experience.
Says the bloke who lands in rockeries for a living whilst people wearing table cloths shoot at you.
OK a C-130 might not have a whole lot of clearance at the wingtips but ...........
'Both pretty good' is my suspicion
@@hoghogwild Actually, the Navy pilot got a medal for doing that with a Marine tanker. At least they were kind enough to clear the deck for the tests.
@@everettputerbaugh3996 yes, navy pilot, USMC KC-130F, almost 30 landings max of 121,000 pounds. One attempt at a 85,000 pounds gross came to a stop in just 267 feet unarrested. Thanks for the correction.
Thanks, Ward.
Ward, It might be worth a quickie at some point about why ILS cannot meaningfully be "a thing" in carrier aviation for us civilian folk out here who keep hearing about "autoland" (which isn't as "auto" as many think) and wonder why the Navy doesn't do it. (I get it, but that's because I understand how ILS works…and why that's not compatible with mission requirements.) If you already did that then a link would be useful.
Drew, are you by any chance related to ABEC Larry Nothup with whom I served on the Coral Sea?
@@bobharrison7693 Not that I'm immediately aware of. That said, I haven't done a full breadth search of the family tree yet. Given how long my branch of the family has been in North America all kinds of things are possible.
My grandfather served on the Oriskany, which it appears Larry may have served on 20 years later… (There aren't many of us Northup folk, so based on the assignment & rank it is a safe guess.)
It's true, small adjustments in vertical position relative to a glideslope can be made using Direct Lift (here using camber control). PLM magic carpet is nice! The recent accident of an F-35 landing on the Carl Vinson shows how mode confusion is now a big issue, as that pilot thought he was in full PLM, but instead had failed to activate it, and the aircraft drifted a bit.
6:44 although you make a landing you are significantly fast in your Hornet landing footage here. The velocity vector should be *trimmed* inside the "E-bracket" and the FCS will maintain the angle of attack for you leaving you free to focus almost entirely on lineup and power
It's great to see you doing "location" work.
Seeing that old video reminds of the A7 landing 🛬 on the carrier at the end of the opening song in Top Gun. I guess if one is confident enough to land on a carrier, he must really want to be a Navy pilot.
I''m pretty sure we watched that film back in Beeville when I was training for my first look at the Lexington (1974)
I remember watching that video prior to CQ in 1996 lol I wish I had PLM all those years I flew to the boat, over 600 traps.
5:16 Isn't that actually the somatogravic illusion?
Those approach methods are helpful for as a corporate jet pilot as well! Small corrections, scan and trust the instruments.. as always your videos are the best Mooch!
Concur. Putting a Premier Jet onto a short, wet runway at night required similar focus.
Love those deck action shorts. Only the best get to even try, hope they hold onto that standard.
Glideslope to a moving target is an interesting concept..... Aiming for where the runway will be in 30 seconds, so to speak. Naval aviators amaze me.
I'm thinking of your novels, and the character of Creepy, and his methods. This makes me laugh, because that would probably be me in an alternate universe where I'm an LSO.
Wwwrrrrooonnnggggggggg!
Constantly high quality videos.Thank you for your effort Ward and your service.
Still gotta do it old school in the T-45 before you get these nice upgrades.
AEROSPACE ENGINEER HERE: Have a look at that footage at 9:10 and as the Hornet is just over the other plane WATCH the control surfaces and the adjustments being made to the wings. The Elevators are easier to see but if you go to full screen and slow playback speed you can see the wing flap movements just before the plane goes behind the C-2 Greyhound.
I now work in industrial control systems and that's some seriously impressive control algorithm work.
Ward, are there any ship stabilizing features that help with ship roll/pitch? Some cruse ship companies advertise "underwater wings?" that help with ship stabilization. Keeping passengers more comfortable.
This episode was good poop. Thanks.
Nimitz and Ford class don't have wings underwater and are designed to be stable. The hull being gigantic doesn't hurt either. Thanks for watching!
I like that you were patient in letting the video run so we can absorb it all and are making this a series vs. trying to cram too much in a short video. Can't wait to see the next ep!
Tremendous episode, Ward. Concise but full of information. Thanks for sharing!
Any guy that has completed carrier landings has my eternal admiration! Hard enough in my uncle's day when the Fairy Swordfish was standard in the British Fleet Air Arm - his group of 24 trainees lost two aircraft and a learner while still on a land base practise field marked out as a carrier deck complete with island. Double, triple difficult in fast, heavy jets!
To me that featured approach looked far from Positive Attitude till very, very close in - yer fantastic touch down. Hats off!
I actually learned something I didn't know! Great!
Ward, fantastic information. That training film explained a lot, get a real sense of why pilots had to practice (if you will allow that word) even with PLM appears to be an art form rather than an absolute. Always learn something new after watching your videos. Thanks again!😎
Thanks Ward. Very informative and entertaining!
As a wannabe pilot who understands and has successfully played older flight simulators, this was easy to understand. Thanks.
Lockeed had "Direct Lift Control" on the L-1011. Biased the spoilers a small amount up on final. First few degrees of column movement gave more or less spoiler and no pitch change.
I attended a speech at the High School alma mater of a flying Admiral.
At Fairborn High School, very near to Wright-Patterson AFB in Dayton Ohio.
Naturally, very many Fliers, mos'ly USAF Fliers, attended.
At an Officer's Club reception later that evening, the consensus was...
Navy Fliers are "a cut above" any Other Fighter Driver.
🙂
Rick Bonner Pennsyltuck
I was a crew chief on F-15's and while our pilots were good, we all knew that they were not carrier quality.
Really interesting Mooch thank you
WOW.... That is great. You know the L1011 (1970's) called Tristar's Direct Lift Control used spoilers deploying and retracting to maintain the glide path, rather than elevator. It was also the first to use auto throttles. It was ahead of its time but was not a success. It was using a lot of analog control to do what today is easily done with electronics and flyby wire. Still pretty cool.
Thanks, Ward for making the content on your videos so interesting.
Love that instructional film. Don’t want to call it old. 😅
Interesting video. Thanks.
Another job well-done, Mooch!
Doesn't make it easy; it makes it less difficult. Super profound statement.
A great segment! The training film is directly applicable to the A-4, F-4 and EA-6B. The F-8, not so much. The Crusader's lack of speed stability and its attendant propensity for an insidious decel complicated the problem and resulted in a lot more pitch and throttle movement. (the French Crusaders, I believe, had DLC [direct lift control], the granddaddy of the PLM). When I got to Prowlers and big decks, it was like I had died and gone to heaven.
I don't know Mooch, with PLM and future improvements to it, kind of makes the aviator a bus driver and having to learn more of what NFO's do for battle space management since that is where its going. Good vid. Thanks.
Computers break, you still need to know how to fly the airplane and land it.
Are you sure? It's a workload reduction tool, just like autopilot. Autopilot doesn't mean I can stop flying the airplane, but it does mean I can pay more attention to other tasks vs. trying to maintain level flight in addition to other tasks.
This system is similar to flying the old L1011 and now the B787, which uses spoilers to make changes on the glideslope. The AOA of the plane never changed. Makes shooting approaches so much more stable.
Love your program🎉! I served in the US Army long ago, but have always been fascinated with Navy carrier air ops. I've always heard of the "Meatball", but what is it? Is it a red light indicator that the pilot zeros in on or what? I appreciate any comment. Thank you all
Search for "Fresnel Lens" or "Optical Landing System"
mikemiura7740
The "Meatball" is an amber light that is part of the OLS (Optical Landing System). The OLS has a split horizontal row of green lights(datum lights) and the glide slope light is a vertical fresnel lens system between the datum lights . The fresnel lens projects an orange light beam up the glide path. Hence being called the Meatball. If the plane is on the glide path, the pilot sees an amber light "meatball" between the green datum lights. If the plane is above the glide path, the pilot sees the meatball above the green datum lights and conversely, if he's low the meatball will be below the green datum lights. If he gets real low he will see a red flashing light way below the green datum lights and the LSO (Landing Signal Officer) will be hollering on the radio for the pilot to get power on the airplane and get back up on the glide slope or possibly be Waved Off ( Go Around) on the approach.
Cool stuff as usual. Keep the content coming. Thanks Ward.
Where did you get the cool COD t-shirt? I flew them in VRC-30. Does PLM change how the LSO conducts business, for example, power calls?
Hi Ward, i thought this was gonna be about those new Electro magnetic catapults. You win this round sir. 🧐👍
1:04 I think that the groove is the entire portion from the start to landing. Unless something significant changed from the 1960s to the 1990s in the naming of the phases of the approach, the training video has a major error-it has "start," "the middle," "the groove," "in close," then "at the ramp." When I first learned about grading passes in 1992 or so, the only phases were "at the start" (X), "in the middle" (IM), "in close" (IC), and "at the ramp" (AR). Rarely, a grade would include "LIG" for "long in the groove" (meaning a late turn from downwind). Did the phases change? It makes no sense that there are almost always LSO comments for the IM and IC portions but never any "IG" comments except "LIG." Still, it seems that "the groove" cannot be after the middle. It either is before "in the middle" or simply refers to the entire approach. (I'm a land-based naval aviator, retired.)
Do we still practice conventional recovery? Something always breaks at the worst time, in my experience.
Another great video, Ward, thank you!
DCS guy here so forgive the ignorance - So PLM is used in conjunction with ATC and when activated it's disconnecting your nose authority from the flight stick and is using alternate control surfaces to maintain your AOA in to the deck? Basically, you just need to point the flight path marker at the crotch of the ship and your primary flight inputs are both in a secondary mode that disconnects if you bolter? I'm having a bit of trouble visualing stick input in PLM vs normal.
Point the flight path marker at the target wire, not the crotch. In PLM fore and aft stick moves flaps not horizontal stabs. PLM disengages as throttles are advanced to mil at touchdown.
@@WardCarroll Thank you!
It's really great to see a major change implemented in Aviation that both reduces workload AND increases safety.
The thing I always hated about working in Aviation was running into the old "establishment" or "organizational" response: "we've always done it this way, we're not gonna change it now..."
Because no matter how well researched and studied a situation is, changes in technology might very well merit a change in S.O.P.
I flew Lockheed Tristar's for a while it had an early form of direct lift control using the flight spoilers, we were told at the time the only other aircraft to have this system was the F14. In some ways it made landing the L1011 harder than other large machines as the small forward pressure on the yoke close to the runway would cause a firm to hard landing.
I never saw a bad landing at EAL on an L-1011 with DLC. The airplane flew down final on rails. As opposed to the Airbuss A300.
the look of fear in the eyes of the JGs during workups was for a good reason ,,,
I think I remember watching that film in flight school, would have been nice to have PLM on the F-4.
Looks like a lot of potential for stalls and FUBAR, especially at night with a pitching deck in rough seas. I could drop my slick just about anywhere with last second stick input. A stall in a fighter is essentially flying an anvil, because inputs are so delayed, oops!
Commander, well done and I really learned something this morning!!!
Taking 'the bleedin obvious' as my signature characteristic ......
You still have to manage speed with considerable precision I would suppose
Flaps can do much - but only so much after all
Thank you for sharing Ward.
Blasts from the past for sure👍🏼👍🏼
Ward,
Wasn't the Tomcat ahead of its time with the wing spoilers?
Was it called DLC?
And didn't Grumman/Pilots have to fight to get that active on the planes?
I think I remember hearing they had to compare landing data and showed that using the spoilers was a no-brainer.
DLC didn't eliminate the need for power and attitude corrections like PLM does. Plus the flight path indicator in the Tomcat wasn't accurate enough to point at the landing area like Super Hornet pilots do now (because of the Tomcat's relatively inaccurate IMU).
@WardCarroll thanks for the response.
Must have been great to be back on the boat. Keep it up!
Low and slow is my preferred attitude 😎
Mister, I don't think I like your attitude.
Wow, you might as well practice playing Top Gun on NES. It was surprisingly accurate training for the time.
I crashed into the ocean every time
That game was so hard in 1987!
That is what I was reminded of when I saw that training video! I always crashed, never once landed. My dad could some how land every single time. I never figured it out.
Have nothing but respect for the intelligence and skill of your mates, Ward. I wonder; did you ever bump into my friend Lt. CDR. Chuck Hertzler who flew Nam...I believe F4? He is the epitome of the dedicated Naval Aviator and gentleman.
Don’t think so.
@@WardCarroll Thank you kindly for your reply! You can check this history out as well...my First Cousin, Major Kenneth Wine Jr. was among the pilots in the first jet squadron of the newly minted USAF at Luke AFB and later a Nellis AFB. He flew the F-86 in Korea and later the F100 Super Saber in Europe and North Africa. Also, my Maternal Uncle was one of the last surviving 'Humpsters' of WWII, Captain John Bentley (RIP). Can't help but have an affection for all you folks who have a history flying.
Your shows are awesome.
Thanks, Mike!
The training video reminded me of a time in my service as a Navy SAR helo pilot. We were on a detachment to the USS Kitty Hawk in the early 90’s as she was coming out of the Philadelphia Naval Shipyard for sea trials. While we were usually droning around in circles in Starboard Delta, in this case they’d asked us to fly the meatball glideslope for several sorties to help calibrate the meatball. During the day it wasn’t a problem to respond to differing requests from the air boss to fly the H-3 in the groove, but it became quite problematic one horizonless night when they asked us to go into a high hover while on glideslope at about 400’ a couple hundred yards aft of the ship! Sorry boss. No go.
@ 8:00, DW Kinley said that the final approach descent path is controlled by using the flaps to control wing camber. Makes sense since the lift coefficient of the wing can be affected directly by the flap position. I have only flown general aviation aircraft, and have set the flaps before lining up for final approach. Do you see a problem with using the PLA method with small light aircraft?
Landing in weather and a pitching deck requires all of the above, plus luck.
watching landing videos it may be perspective but the "meatball" never seems very bright, is that just the angle of the camera or its inability to film it properly?
It's appropriately bright.
PLM sounds really cool.
Sounds like an Italian Prog Rock group 😋
Ward, we love your work here. Please interview a USN helo pilot. Plane guard, perhaps. Let's hear their perspective on landing a helo on a moving deck at night and in bad weather. Hey, we're all one team and respect what those flying "stiff wing" a/c contribute . . . but other pilots & aircrew are important too. Especially if you have a "liquid landing" and see a SAR helo arrive overhead with a rescue swimmer coming down on the hoist.
In work. Stay tuned.