FlyWire T6 Texan Dark Corners Spins
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Spin training in a WWII T6 Texan. We learn the 'Spin Prevent' and Spin recovery. Things that could save your life! Come along and see what it looks like with the world going around in a blur!
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Please watch: "FlyWire T6 Aileron Rolls and Loops"
• FlyWire T6 Aileron Rol...
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Great views! Look at that descent rate!
Scott, I am one of those old f**ts that went through the immersion process of the US Navy flight training in 1955 in the SNJ-5 and 6. I was fortunate enough to have a combat veteran flight instructor that had flown the F-2H Banshee off carriers in Korea. He was fearless and a truly great jock. I enjoyed doing spins with him at NAS Whiting Field, Milton, FL. As a student I enjoyed the 10-12 minutes it took to climb to 10,000' He gave me instruction the whole climb time and told war stories. We were required to do 3 turn spins prior to initiating recovery. After 3 or 4 climb/spin/climb/spin/etc. we would do something else at 3,000'-4000. I carried on in that great bird thru, instruments, acrobatics, formation, 'gunnery, bombing and carrier qualifications, ending my love with that bird after making 6 carrier landings aboard the USS Saipan CVL-48. Then on to jets. The point that I am making is that as a 19-year-old, it was a very forgiving/honest aircraft with the proper training. I want to emphasize proper training. Training, training, training. There is no substitute if you want to live with high performance aircraft. It is life insurance.
Exactly right!
Bit of memory lane thing for me. Five years, 3500 hours of giving rides in the T6 (5000 plus rides, never counted). I did it all, simulated dog fights, aerobatic rides, just crusing around and some check outs. The T 6 is a beautiful bird, I called it the Buick sport car of the air that Buick never produced. It is all about energy management as we were able to average 25 gph doing rides, getting to altitude, acro...and back down again. The airplane in my opinion has no dark corners, it is simply pushed there by the pilot, all the while giving all kinds of signs and warnings. I really enjoyed letting my students (all rides were of instructional nature and 90% of my rides flew the airplane including at least few rolls and loops). The best one was a dog fight set up right to right........the guys would just start pulling like crazy (we flew at low power/airspeeds), airplane starts shaking and complaining, that beautiful accelerated stall with right wing drop and we are inverted. Ahh we had good times. Except for the Cherokee and airline drivers trying to explain and teach me how to fly the T6 and they never tipped. About 3 years into flying the T6 I got a chance to fly P51, it was like home except for the power. Instead loosing altitude doing across I kept gaining it. After the first landing my instructor said "Go find one to fly, you are set". Well never did find one......But now I am bouncing off big ocean open water in my beloved Twin Otter on floats. Anyways, the T6 is awesome.
Pawel- Thanks for sharing. I also don't think the airplane has dark corners... but some do. It was a joy to fly.
Pawel, how is the T6 for cross country flying?
@@joshhelmwhojawhatsit7690 It is hands off once trimmed airplane. We flew the airplane with very conservative power settings, full power takeoff, but early and large power reduction. Prop all the way back (1600 or a sweet smooth spot, each airplane was bit different), climb at about 25 inches and mixture lean of peak. With full tanks, we would get 3:30 to 3:45 fours doing 5-6 flights with hot loading. We would run the left tank dry (typically 2 hrs, unless we did couple 1 hour flights back to back on that tank and then we got 15 min more) and then just flew 1.5 hrs off the right. Since the airplane was lighter, we would actually get better fuel burn since the airplane climb better. For reposition xc we would run 1600/22inchs/ and again lean of peak, this gave us max of 4 hrs at about 130-140 mph IAS (this number is bit vague in my memory, it's been a long time). This translates to 21-22 gal/hr, but it's very easy to burn 30 or more if you decide to make more noise, you wont go that much faster. Hope this helps.
The only thing cheaper than an airline pilot is a Scotsman. You won't get a tip out of either one.
I came here because of the T6 loss at Osh. Something wonderful about your presentations, Scott.
The big thing (I think) aeros and spin training teaches is how the aeroplane 'feels' just before, and on, departure. The life-saver is, on recognising that departure or even pre-empting it, is the instinctive 'forward stick' to re-attach the airflow. And it has to be instinctive - no time to think about it if it happens!
For me, just getting used to the disorientation, and its somethig you have to keep practicing.
Scott makes it look so easy...
Hi. Had to bone up on my stalls and spins after that young lady at Oshkosh lost her life along with her friend. Prayers to the family, there has to be a lesson learned here, we owe it to the both of them. Thank you for this video Brother. Hawk out!!
Lesson is don't spin a warbird at only 3500ft specially one of the heavier ones.
Maybe she was trying to suddenly avoid a birdstrike and accel stall spun the plane as i dont see why Anyone would try spin a Warbird so low,
specially as the planes specs say spins should be at like 8,000ft or something
She knew she was out over Lake Winnebago, other than that she had been led to believe by others that she was a "natural pilot" and didn't think about the maneuvers she was attempting to perform over the lake. 🥸
Love the 80’s Paint contrasted with the 21st century glass cockpit
Jim Good was my grandfather. It was great seeing the Wyoming Wildcatter up and flying. I loved going to the hanger to check out the T6 every time we'd visit Casper. I got to fly with Grandpa Jim quite a few times. Never got a ride in the Wildcatter unfortunately. Hope it makes it back to Reno some day.
I’ve spent a lot of time in his hanger! Love his little museum. I’m in Casper too btw.
Was it a Number 7 or a Number 77? 🤠
"Hope it makes it back to Reno some day." I'm from the *FUTURE* and FYI Reno is now in New Mexico. Should still be Reno at heart!
Brings back memories of T-37 spin rides. We went to FL250. Lots of time to recover.
Everything I know about spins started in the T37.
My father loved that plane (and the T33...Moody AFB, 1960). @@FlyWirescottperdue
I am all for bringing the rigorous stall spin training back to flight schools! All of them! Also some kind of acro basics too. When I learned that this type of training is not required to obtain a pilot's license, I was shocked. Some contra arguments were saying "More people died during training those than during the actual events" ... I was shocked again. It is hard for me to believe people were dying during the training more than when the spins actually happened. I know pilots who went through those trainings and they are alive and I feel waaaaaaaaaaay safer up there with them.
Good practical information, thanks.
My dad flew Spitfire in WW2. He took me up at 10 years old for spins in a Tiger Moth. I was hooked.
T-6 story time from back in the mid 80s...
Was visiting a friend who lived on a private airport in northern Idaho. Around dusk one of the residents starts doing some pretty low altitude acrobatics in a T-6. First he is doing hammer heads. As the plane goes up vertically the engine starts stumbling and belching black smoke until the stream of black exhaust lights off in a roaring stream of flame down the side of the plane. And he does this repeatedly.
Then he starts putting the plane into a spin (still at a pretty low altitude). As we watch the plane doing this my friend remarks, "You know, he just moved the battery into the rear of the plane and hasn't CGed it. Fighter planes like to recover from a spin into a counter spin." 😮
Next morning at breakfast we see the guy flying the T-6 and he mentions, "Did you see the exhaust lighting off when I was doing hammer heads last night? It was scaring the hell out of me!"
To which we replied, "Well why the hell did you keep doing them then?"
i have a ton of hours in the back seat of a T-6 and a BT-13. my Uncle was a WWII fighter pilot and growing up i spent summers with him flying the air show circuit. beautiful T-6, i need to find someone to take me for a ride.
Thanks for a good video. The best way to stay out of trouble is not to get into it in the first place 🙂
We still fly formation aerobatics in the Harvard here in Canada.
Love the aircraft, hate the paint.
The T6 went by the name of "Harvard" in South Africa. You may be able to find some really good photos of the Harvards taken by the late Herman Potgieter (photographer). He was a world class aviation photographer but sadly died in an air accident in Kenya.
This is what we did learning flying gliders. stick forward stop the turn with rudder and pull out of the dive. is that not standard in pilot training?
In the South African Air Force we had to do spins under the IF training hood. Was also part of the IF test.
That does look like fun! Minus the part that you are flying a school bus... I really enjoyed my spin training in the super decathlon. I need to go back for a refresher.
Hey Scott, Quick question, are my 81 year old {with recent cataract surgery} eyes deceiving me or has that T-6 been heavily flush riveted? Damn fine finish I must say!!!
It was a Reno racer for a long time.
Hi Gunny,
Nice clean spin entry and recovery but you didn’t really elaborate on any “Dark Corners”.
Seems like long ago I’d heard the 6 has a “Dark Corner” related to any inverted -deep- stall. Zat an old wife’s tail or . . . ? Also words to the effect that altitude is your friend in that situation .
I did do some flight instructing in a 220 Stearman long, long ago but only a brief forty-five minute acquaintance with the 6.
Regards,
Tom Charlton (who’s explored enough “Dark Corners” )
Tom- Thanks. The stall and spin are definitely 'Dark Corners' on the T6. Most T6's have a vigorous stall break that is eye opening. And since the airplane is not 'approved' for spins (meaning you can't charge when you teach others, it spins and recovers fine, but not within the FAA TC criteria of 1 turn recovery from a one turn spin. Expect at least another half turn for recovery). I haven't seen an inverted deep stall... but I have inadvertently done a Lomechvak on the top of a loop before.
This was the one that was race 77 called “Wildcatter” right ?
Great video Scott!
One has to wonder if this kind of training could've been the difference in the T6 crash into Lake Winnebago at Oshkosh this summer. Hopefully, the NTSB can shed more than speculative light when they issue their final report.
So why do they say it shouldn’t be spun below 10000 ft? I’ve heard that twice now since the Oshkosh accident
To allow for botched recovery attempts. At 10k’ you might have three tries.
In the end the only flight control more important than an Elevator is the Rudder & also the only controls that are interchangeable depending on plane rotation :D
Ailerons are secondary controls more for fine wing leveling control than anything else LOL.
This looks fun. Thanks for the content.
What happened to the ''HEMI" that Jim used to carry on the back seat? In memory of Henry V. Pohlmann, one of Jim's crew.
Fantastic commentary and instructing. I wish you had been my primary and commercial instructor.
I’d love to know who did that panel and the exact components
We love your videos Scott!
No matter what airplane, forward stick prevents a lot of accidents. 🤠
A lot of plane and takes a very proficient pilot…ask one of the very best ever Gene McNeely.
All the T-6s i've been in recently were placarded "Intentional Spins Prohibited".
Speak up. Project your voice. Patrick Cowdrey, Southern Oregon
I learned 3 turn spins and later on taught them on Piper Tomahawks.. Learned a few years later.. they were... Dangerous!! One of them I recovered at around 300 agl. Student froze on controls..
I came close to no recovering from a spin in a Tonkahawk.
I've spun , Champion, Piper cubs, Pitts S-2, nothing close to that.
@@tgmccoy1556 You have to really push the elevator down to recover. and the rudder pedals are hard to push too. You hesitate, you die.
@@emergencylowmaneuvering7350 I refused to instruct in the Tonkahawk . Still do.
The have a few good points but a Trainer should be able to be controlled by a student pilot with few hidden quirks.
Student freeze was covered in a Dan Gryder video. It's killed many CFIs
Thanks again Scott.
What a clear, authoritative and useful video. Thanks. So sad though to see an ex-military aircraft modified out of all recognition by owners who “just want to have fun”. The aircraft’s heritage is worth more than that.
I have a (non-pilot) question. On stall, why does the airplane (T-6) or why does the left wing drop, as opposed to the right wing? Thanks! (Paul)
Wing drop is likely caused by rigging, an aerodynamic trigger or a weight imbalance.
@@FlyWirescottperdue So it's possible to, depending on the circumstances, experience or enter a flat spin to the right?
7
Where in Texas are you guys?
6:29 Tell me about that fold in the top right of the engine cowl, and it's purpose.
These airplanes were equipped with a 30 cal machine gyn for training purposes... one if them was there.
I have to squint to hear this video I wish the volume was better. I always enjoy your videos but I just can't watch this one because I have other sounds around me.
'When the airplane starts to slice' Is that slip?
The nose slices when it loses directional control. A slip is induced by the pilots foot activating the rudder.
Good raced as #77 Looks like the rudder has been recovered and not repainted with the number.
Zane, it was raced as 77 and the rudder was recovered. I was attempting to be funny;)
Hi Scott! Idle-Neutral-aft? Would you care to elaborate further?
Giulio- Of course. Hopefully you can hear what I say in the video. But the actions you need to take are to: Idle- bring/check the power in Idle, Neutral- check the ailerons are neutral, Aft- make sure the stick is as far aft as it will go. Reference the Accelerated Spin video as well. If anyone of those items is not as I suggest then you have put in a pro-spin input and it makes recovery harder, if not impossible to accomplish. What you are trying to do is stabilize the spin and present as much rudder surface to the relative wind as possible. This makes the rudder more able to stop the yaw and for you to effect a recovery. I'm not a mnemonic kind of guy, I am more action oriented and I think this fits the bill.
Hi Scot! I Would like to know your opinion: How significant is prop. gyroscopic effect (Of course Power Idle, but in case this did not happen) in case Left vs. Right spin.
Bei clockwise rotating propeller (most of the "west" production aircraft) in left turn (spin) is basically gyroscopic "pitch up" tendency (not so helpful bei spin recovery).
Is known, that because of that effect left traffic pattern are more dangerous, what about left vs. right spin (in case of clockwise rotating prop)?
Milos
The gyroscopic effect of the prop has significant influence on the spin. At power settings above idle a right turning engine has a Pro-Spin input... it flattens the spin. For a left turning engine one would think the input would be a pitch down, rolling moment. I'd have to try it out to see, interesting question though.
@@FlyWirescottperdue Hi, thanks for antwort.
I am Mooney "warrior". In my bird (with Lycoming O 360) the propeller rotates when viewed from the cabin like a watch (for me "clockwise"). In left turn there is "pitch up" tendency. For me theoretically should be in left spin the tendency to flatten the spin. In right spin theoretically should be tendency to "convert spin to spiral dive. I am not sure if it is worth to try it (for sure not in Mooney).
In past i flew Zlin 526 (incl. spins 180 Hp. Avia engine), prop rotated "anti-clockwise" . Some "yaw" effect were opposite to planes with Lyc engine.
I would like to know your opinion, if there is more difficult to recover from left vs. right spin because of prop. gyro effect.
milos
@@milosbrndiar Milos- I mention the direction of rotation as viewed from the cockpit. Your Mooney has an American engine, as my F33C does. the Russian engines turn the opposite direction. If you want to see the effect of different control/power inputs in a spin see my video: FlyWire Accelerated Spins th-cam.com/video/a4gRbpSoiLs/w-d-xo.html
The bottom line is that with any pro-spin input it does make the spin recovery harder to do.
@@FlyWirescottperdue
One more time, thank you Scott. Great video (Accelerated Spins)
Hope, I was not annoying. Would like to fly acrobatics again (of course, Covid...), now with Decathlon. 4 years ago I absolved some spin training with Zlin 526F.
Interesting is "new to me" concept- "full aft to the elevator before contra rudder" (because of airflow to the rudder).
In POH F33 (march 1983): ... Immediately move control column full forward and simultaneously apply full rudder opposite to the direction of the spin....
POH M20C (1977): ...2, Briskly apply full rudder against the spin 3, Follow with rapid forward movement of the control wheel to pitch the nose down.
Interesting video with "Abnormal Recovery"- "Elevator first" (begins 4:54):
th-cam.com/video/GQXLUaA3yo4/w-d-xo.html
Have a nice weekend, m.
Speak up if ya can. I am at 100% volume. Thanks