As much as has been said involving ST vs SW, each side has its own advantages. ST's advantages are: 1. Ships more manuevarable. 2. The Federation encourages self reliance and initiative, whuile the Empire suppresses it. 3. Individual weapons are more powerful. 4. Members of the Federation are voluntary and therefore there is no need for large security forces behind the frontline. 5. The Federation is accepting of Alien cultures. While some aliens are considered "useful" and therefore tolerated as second class citizens in the Empire, for the most part they are slaves. The Federation is accepting of and can therefore take advantage of special alien abilities. SW's advantages are: 1. Larger ships. 2. Imperial Star Destroyers are designed with several back up systems making a single hit less likely to damage vital systems, shields being an obvious exception. 3. Imperial ships are designed as warships. The Galaxy class star ship is a science exploration vessel ship, armed because the unforeseen circumstances that can occur. As warships, Imperial vessels have alot more weapons than even seceral federation ships together. 4. The Empire's tactics usually involve task forces with 6 Star Destroyers and supporting vessels. While the Federation can put together fleets against dangerous foes such as the Borg, First contact would probably be a single ship. 5. The Empire has a huge infrastructure designed for war and a large lead in terms of numbers. This not as big an advantage as at first seems however. A lot of imperial forces are used to hold captive worlds and fight rebelious forces. We should also remember, The U.S. faced such obstacles against Germany in WWII, but managed to quickly transfer to a war economy that outproduced all other countries combined.
Overall: ok. In a largely haphazard estimate, I'd put the _Enterprise-E_ on par with a VSD II; above an ISD I (unless it were retrofitted); and below an ISD II. Kirk's Enterprise is completely in the dust, but points for "torpedo surgery" - 'cause Kirk would come up with something to get himself back in the game, if only for a minute. This went from fence to downvote mostly because the title is "Picard vs Vader" - and in that conflict Picard would last this long; with the senior bridge crew quickly following - except Data. Other points lost because Vader would be more appropriately found commanding the _Executor_, or some other SSD, which would obliterate the _Enterprise-E_, especially if given that much prep time, even assuming a minimum complement.
Can someone please clarify something for me? I've come to a little confusion. I've noticed a theme in ST: their ships take structural and internal damage from impacts before the shields are down, often time stating immediately afterward that the shields are now at X% capacity. How is this even possible? Shouldn't the shields stop the energy? Wouldn't that mean the shields are, contrary to ST fans, inefficient at stopping energy-based weaponry? SW ships on the other hand don't take damage unless the shields drop.
Mike Wong came up with this theory : '' ''So why do Star Trek shields oscillate at a fixed frequency? Oscillation is a weakness, not a strength; if a field oscillates, then this means that its amplitude changes over time, which is not a good thing for a defensive system. In an AC-powered electromagnet, the magnetic field fluctuates between +B and -B, so there are finite moments when its field strength is zero!. In theory, a constant bombardment of energy would achieve some penetration of an oscillating shield regardless of whether it's at full strength or not. This would explain why Star Trek ships start taking damage before their shields fail, and it would also help explain the usefulness of "multi-phasic shields" (as well as the fact that they aren't used in battle1). It might be reflected when the shield is at its peaks, but it will get through during the valleys.'' In short, energy weapons seems to be able to bypass star trek shields.
If you have questions about shields, the best way to get your answer is to look into the nature and function of the energies involved. I mean, we all debated shield behavior so many times we've lost count, but without really understanding the nature of their function. I dont mean simply, 'shields stop energy or kinetic force from objects or they block transporters... I mean, HOW they do all this. I started learning nature of the energies involved in order to finally settle the claim that Star Wars shields have no frequency. That would literally be like saying the electrons in Star Wars dont circle protons. Well of course they do. And its this atomic quantum scale wave-particle duality that the energy 'frequency' so often referenced in Star Trek is all about. So, unless SW fans are saying Star Wars has magic electrons that make up the shields and weapon energies, then SW weapons operate using energy with (since they don't modulate frequencies) a 'universal standard'. Since the ships are basically rolling off assembly lines with virtually the same exact components, it's safe to say their shield frequencies would the same for all ships in SW, at least those of similar design. As for how ships still take a bit of damage while shields are still functioning? Consider deflecting a baseball with a bat. Do you feel it in your hands at all? Ball never got near your hands... it hit at the end of the bat! But the bat was an extension of your body, just as shields are an extension from the ship, and like a tractor beam. When the ship moves... the shields move with it. Stands to reason the same concept works in reverse., ya think?
I'll try and clarify this to show that shields are effective,just fyi. Think of shields like an old metal shield on your arm or a suit of armor on your body, it does it's job of helping keep the brunt of the damage away but you are still able to feel some of the impact. This is avoidable by making shields be able to give and take, but I seriously doubt Star Fleet want's to rubber ball as their shield system. What Gramps Ford said at the end of his comment is basically trying to say but still the the "shield' idea as part of the metaphor.
At the Empire's height, a much smaller proton beam cannon was mounted on the modified Imperial-class Star Destroyer, the Accuser.[5] Decades later, Booster Terrik had his private Star Destroyer Errant Venture fitted with a similar weapon said to be based on the Darksaber project.[6] A fighter-scale proton beam cannon was fitted to the Lancet Aerial Artillery vehicles used by the Empire.[7]
In STFC, the relative speeds of the Federation starships and the Borg cube were in the range of ~300 m/s. The ships can obviously achieve far higher speeds than this, but extremely high relative velocities increase the difficulty of targeting, so this establishes the maximum relative speeds at which a Federation starship can maneuver while still being able to reliably target an enemy vessel (even one as large and unwieldy as a Borg cube).
Gerard Kean actually, it was several torpedoes and a bunch of disruptor bolts. Even that did not destroy the ship. The Enterprise D was actually destroyed by a warp core breach due to antimater containment fields failing
I love Star Trek and Star Wars both. What most don't seem to realize that is obvious to fans of both is that #1 Picard would have left sheilds down in the beginning of a new confrontation, and his wepons would have been powered down, as per Star-fleet proceedurs for first contact, however this video dose not state whether this is first contact clearly as it is a mash up so we will never know for sure, but assuming this was a known fight to be in all fairness shields and wepons would have been redy and a free shot at an unshielded Enterprise not possible. #2 Stardestroyers have about 3 meters of duranium armor plating covering them AKA 9.84 feet of WHATEVER comparable armor that is to the star trek world and vice versa Enterprise is a heavily up-gunned and somewhat up armored science/exploration vessel it's armor is nowhere close to that of a ISD in thickness and if you have ever watched Star trek where there is battle damage to the enterprise...both of them {NOTE there where two of them in this confrontation} the armor/hull is MAYBE 6 inches thick in places where others are significantly less, the enterprise is almost armorless without sheilds, and in most casses it wins through teamwork with other vessels {old style ships seen in this video at least} maneuvering into better positions when the enemy is unaware of there next unexpected move or to run away. {strictly combat speaking as negotiations are not possible in a death battle like this video is trying to portray. But would be one of its options otherwise} [HINT science/exploration vessel with golden tong captains] Kinda the whole point in the older star trek series. and always take serious damage quite quickly even in the star trek universe against even small warships...This is getting old here."science/exploration vessel" right from the get go this is an unfair set up for a frontal confrontation...Which the video is based around. #3 Configuring the torpedo would have taken time they did not have #4 Star destroyers have, just like the enterprise a "BATTLE BRIDGE" though it's called "The Auxiliary Bridge" in the star wars universe. Most imperial commanders don't use it even though it has better CNC capability's and is at the center of the ship in a heavily armored box is simply because A. the shots of space and ships outside the window are much cooler in movies. AKA {For show} B. Imperial commanders are portrayed as arrogant idiots in the movies who think they are above it all. However most are more sensible and actually have a secondary crew in the Auxiliary bridge or are in there themselves. [READ THE BOOKS] C. Darth Vader has more than once commanded a battle from the Auxiliary bridge of a warship for all of the reasons mentioned before. [READ THE BOOKS]. D. The battle bridge is not used in star trek very often on screen for the same reasons as in star wars. [ITS JUST FOR SHOW TO GET RATINGS UP] [READ THE BOOKS] E. I verry much doubt Picard or any star fleet commander would conduct battle from the primary bridge either if combat was expected...That's just stupid... #5 In the Star Wars universe Antimater is used for a lot of stuff...Including antipersonnel mines......Think abot that for a moment anyone with a brain......Antimater is nothing new to these Star Wars ISD's.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Antimatter #6 Forgetting about the TIE Fighters and Bombers that carry starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Proton_bomb Proton torpedo...........Proton Bomb......... I'll let you all argue over that one. #7 This is a pre typed copy past for crap like this I run into like this about Enterprise VS ISD with a few small eddits here and there. [Science/Exploration vessel VS War Ship + Comparible technology + Logic = 2 DEAD Enterprises + 2 DEAD favorite characters + A lot of dead people = A few weeks in dry dock for an ISD and victory leave for ISD crew....... DON'T COMPARE A WARSHIP TO A PAIR OF BEEFED UP SCIENCE/EXPLORATION SHIPS. IT JUST WASTES TIME.........AND LIVES.
Star Trek has Photon Torpedo and Quantum Torpedo's, not proton. The orange torpedo's in ST are Photon torpedo's and the blue are Quantum. The Enterprise E uses Quantum. Photon torpedo can range from 25 isoton yield to 200 isoton. en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Photon_torpedo. Just sayin. Anyway the video itself is heavily biased for Star Wars to absurd levels.
Your also forgetting the 1 major flew this person had, it clearly says Picard vd Vader not Picard and Kirk vs Vader... so clearly Picard was dead in the water Star Wars ISD wins.
A beefed up science vessel vs a battle ship = more intel for the star trek crews and none for you poor battle ships. Your arguments when we do not know how tough the armor is when introduced to phasers and startrek torpedoes are a non-sequitur . In other words if an f22 comes up against a p51 mustang it is game over for the p 51 even though it has more armor.
PS: Teleporters do not work on ships with shields, ISD's and practically all capital ships in the Star wars universe have shields. "lightandark"A beefed up science vessel vs a battle ship = more intel for the star trek crews and none for you poor battle ships. Your arguments when we do not know how tough the armor is when introduced to phasers and startrek torpedoes are a non-sequitur . In other words if an f22 comes up against a p51 mustang it is game over for the p 51 even though it has more armor. #1 "Intel" is acquired militarily through experienced survivors of the confrontation and then provided to friendly forces. #2 Crews aboard warships are a lot more heavily trained at finding ways of killing things and figuring out an enemy's weaknesses, generally speaking than a scientific vessels crew. #3 An F22 can be shot down by even the weakest AA fire and in FACT, has never been fielded in a combat zone because of it's crippling cost to build, maintain and vulnerability to small arms fire. # 4 In addition to it being an inferior aircraft to it's competitor the YF-23, being less stealthy, lower cruising speed, less range, but won the government contract through lobbying and being "Slightly" more maneuverable in a dog fight, even though in today's modern air warfare, the one who sees the enemy first usually wins (Called: "Look Down Shoot Down") I'll let you think about that for a minuet.... #5 A "Phaser" is merely a Pulse modulated "Laser" being varied in frequency. That is cannon by the way. Was it Data? who was feeding info from the ship to the enemy about the "Frequency" of the shields?.....;) Can't remember. I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about. #6 ..."Your arguments when we do not know how tough the armor is when introduced to phasers and Star Trek torpedoes are a non-sequitur. ____ In other words if an f22 comes up against a p51 mustang it is game over for the p 51 even though it has more armor." I thought we covered that QUITE CLEARLY.......I could be wrong though. :) But I do know that Duranium, as portrayed in the Starwars univers is stronger than steel by a fair margin. (Please don't make me have to go look up and put all that info too just to crush your last hope that Star Trek armor, "Thin as it is" Is stronger than Duranium and that all the MASS behind Duranium "Stardestroyers have about 3 meters of duranium armor plating covering them AKA 9.84 feet of WHATEVER comparable armor that is to the star trek world" accounts for nothing in any of this. compared to the "MAYBE 6 inches thick in places where others are significantly less" on the Enterprise.) ......Pleeeeeeeas? P-51 vs F-22....How dose that even compare!?! The F-22 Empty Weight is 31,670 lb (14,365 kg) The F-22 Max takeoff weight is 60,000 lb ( 27,000 kg) The P-51 Max takeoff weight is 12,100 lb ( 5,488 kg) ........Your shitting me....Right? MAYBE if you said F-4U Corsair (One of the best prop driven fighters ever built before jets took over vs F-22 I might get your reference...Might. The F-4U Max takeoff weight is 14,670 lb (6,654.2 kg) ......YaaaaaaaaannnnoooOOO. The P-51 was not a heavily armored aircraft, it was a NIMBLE aircraft and it's gun's where week even for the time period. In actual fact, it was not even one of the "BEST" planes we built during that war. At least get your comparisons into some kind of "LOGICAL" template. Neither your aircraft to face the F-22 nor the best ever made comes anywhere close to the mass of the F-22...Unless you compare the F-22s mass with no fuel, bombs, missiles, ammo, pilot or any consumables. To the Latest model and MAXIMALLY loaded F-4U that can barely get off the ground under the bomb load...
Just so I can Fing coment Best prop driven fighter I could find....Still not close to mass displacement.... I tried, I really did. To give your comment a fair chance... Please try again. :)
My hopes to finding a fair and decent duel between the two are still dashed. First of all Where are all the TIE fighters? A Imperial Class Star Destroyer has the capacity to carry 72 Tie Fighters. They carried 6 squadrons of TIE fighters. 1 squadron of interceptors And 1 Squadron of TIE Bombers They also have Ion Canon's which are mainly used against shields. They had 6 HEAVY turbolasers. Note that they aren't literal lasers. Turbolasers fire High Amounts of Raw powerful energy. Not light. These Turbolasers are capable of taking down a MC90. The both ships are exploration vessels. They aren't meant to take on small Cruisers in a fight let alone Giant Battleships like the ISD. They are meant to be able to defend themselves long enough to allow a successful escape. Yes it may be able to take down One ISD using teamwork with another vessel but the same can be said for an ISD getting help from another. Imperial captains are arrogant but they are tactical Geniuses. So I say that this fight was ridiculously biased to ST because you failed to include the full power of a ISD. P.S. I am a fan of SW but I'm not being biased here. I am just tired of these "fights" not having enough Umpf to them. This ISD could of taken out both ships if the maker of the video had done his research...
Dillion Fox Look, it's simple. which side can fight while moving faster than lightspeed? Identify that one, and there's your winner. And stick to the films, anything else which presents a stronger military power than the films violates canon.
Tom Evans While we are on the topic of canon, to my knowledge, the only cap ships destroyed in SW where either getting shot by a supper weapon [death star] or in one instance Kamikaze attack [A-wing fighter to the bridge.] Add to the fact that these ships have seen service through constant conflict over a period of decades, countless battles and few if any are ever destroyed save for extreme circumstances. EG: Shot with planet busting supper cannon, lucky shot or MASSIVE fleet battles involving THOUSANDS OF WARSHIPS SLUGGING IT OUT for about......SEVERAL HOURS!!!!! By all indications, only the Borg have ships that can take a beating and dish one out on par with ships of the line in the SW universe....For that matter.....I think THAT would be a GOOD fight!, Light speed? I thought time was relevant, as fare as fighting goes while in a bubble of space/time where you are moving faster/slower than everything else outside of that bubble. Meaning, so....? You can fight another ship that is traveling in a time/space bubble? .....Ok......What dose that matter when comparing one space faring race that this has some meaning to as it is they're primary means of travel, translated over to another space faring race that uses a different method of faster than light travel where this is not a factor as fare as interception and combat is involved, because you are using a method of travel [as fare as we can tell] that is AT the rate of standard time...Just FASTER, than a time/space bubble that gets you there. [Eventually] But you hardly feel the passage of time. {PS: Faster is possible with ST warp, but tears the fabric of Time/Space and so eventually the Federation put into place a galactic SPEED LIMIT to STOP THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FABRIC OF THE UNIVERSE.} While SW method seems to be both faster from point to point [Real time} and more sustainable as it {To the best of my knowledge} """""DOSE NOT"""" DESTROY THE FABRIC OF THE UNIVERSE. So, how dose this have ANYTHING to do with fighting, in real space or in transit? Aside from possibly creating a rift in time and space and destroying the universe because you want to use one method of space travel beyond what physics can support. For every action, there is an equal opposing action. ...... In this case. Action: Go faster. Reaction: Destroy all of existence as we know it to try and fight another ship in a Space/Time bubble that dose not exist in any form that we can interact with, without destroying all of existence in the process...... (Slow clap)
Yeah, they have a ship that sorta polices the timeline from people who mess with the temporal prime directive. The Voyager episode is called 'Relativity'. Also, in Year of Hell episode,there's a Krenim weapon ship- "Its main weapon was a beam that pushed objects out of the spacetime continuum, effectively erasing them from history." In Furture's end, we see the timeship Aeon. Both timeships were Federation.
How is this even an argument. It's like people fighting about who would win in a fight, PeeWee Herman or Hulk Hogan. "I think PeeWee would win, cause he has tassles on his bycicle handlebars and a neat bow tie", says the Star Trek fan.
Well lets say your point is valid... why would star wars fans be carrying on an age-old argument that is according to you- completely one-sided? Either you are full of crap, or everyone on the Star Wars side is an idiot for entertaining such ridiculous arguments. Sorry but I have to go with the higher probability of you have no clue what you're talking about.
Gramps Ford There's plenty of well documented canonical science behind Star Trek, Star Wars, and most other science fiction movies, TV shows and video games. It's all very easy to find, as well. You should read it. And it's rarely the SW fans who "carry on" the argument regarding the amount of military might each movie/show/game franchise wields. And anyway, the vast majority of us Star Wars fans are just as much fans of Star Trek, Babylon 5, Stargate, Mass Effect, Lexx and many others. The Science Fiction Universe in which we live is big enough for all of them, and many more. Just because a lone Imperial Star Destroyer could annihilate a significant percentage of Starfleet doesn't make me "look down" on Star Trek. Far from it. Consider what each basic storyline is about. In Star Wars, almost all of their far, far away galaxy has been explored and mapped, so there isn't nearly as huge of an interest and expenditure to explore their galaxy as there is in Star Trek's considerably less-explored galaxy (i.e., the Milky Way). Star Wars is about war, strife, power struggles and the spiritual transcendence of the Jedi and Sith. Star Trek has its own wars and strife and power struggles, but it's more about the exploration of the galaxy, and keeping the peace between the often bickering races it contains. The value of a science fiction franchise doesn't rest entirely with its military might. It just so happens, though, that the topic of this video and comment thread IS the warring abilities of the two largest franchises. And according to the extensive canon of both sides, an Enterprise-D and an Ent-A defeating an Imperial Star Destroyer in a melding of the ST and SW universes is as likely to happen as a Wookie and Mr. Spock walking into my office at the same time in the actual universe.
***** Species 8472 can kill planets more effectively. However, someone thought the bigger the battle station. the more fans will go "ooooh!!" like they just found something shiny. That is of course the Star Wars way... instead of intellectual stimulation aimed at adults, Star Wars geniuses thought, "we need people killing and blowing things up. All the time.with no end in site!"
He gave up trying to win the technical argument, so now it's "Star Trek is smarter than Star Wars". What's odd to me is to see a person who is a fan of Star Trek but not a fan of Star Wars. Every sci-fi fan I've ever known who liked one also liked the other. Strange.
Here some numbers proving how star wars fighters are superior to star trek capital ships : Star Wars: Slave-1 Main guns: 64000 GW (2 kilotons per shot, 480 rpm firing rate onscreen in AOTC for time-averaged power output rather than peak output) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Main phasers: 3.6 GW Star Wars: Slave-1 Missiles: 190 megatons (tail-launched missiles; seismic charge mines are roughly 12000 megatons) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical Star Wars: Slave-1 Sublight acceleration: 2500G Star Trek: Enterprise-D Sublight acceleration: 1000G Star Wars: Slave-1 Operational range: not stated (however, Obi-Wan's starfighter has an operational range of 150,000 light-years, and is probably similar). Star Trek: Enterprise-D Operational range: 2750 light-years Star Wars: Slave-1 Shield heat dissipation: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has shield dissipation of 2 billion GW peak, and is probably similar) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak Star Wars: Slave-1 Reactor power: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has power output of 7 billion GW max, and is probably similar) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6 Star Wars: Slave-1 Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, same-day flight from core to galactic outer-rim systems requires speeds in excess of 10 million c) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6) star trek capital ships would not even be capable of fighting star wars fighters since these fighters are more much powerful than any federation ships. star trek ships = sad joke.
Menua Khachatouryan All numbers approved by Georges Lucas since the author of these star wars tech books asked for Lucas authorization. Sorry its canon and screen evidences support these numbers too.
but ST has quite alot more sience behind it then SW... in the ST universe many things are quite documented why those power outputs etc.. why this and that thing generates this and those... while in SW it's just throwing around with huge numbers... in other words.. sience fiction vs. fantasy btw that doesn't mean I like one more then another... I like both ST and SW... even if I am a bit more on the treki side... but mostly only for the TNG era... the TOS is just 60s b-movie stuff.. and all the cinematic movies (except first contact) are just unlogical stuff trimmed for action... where ST realy shines is the middle to late TNG era oh and btw... SW doesn't have the Q-Continuum !! I think obi wan or whoever there would go mad if they meet a Q one day :D only yoda may capable of facing and understanding Q :D but because of that Q wouldn't visit him.. :D because that would be boring for him :D
NoNameLeft1500 In Star Trek, it is possible to use sound waves as a weapon against a starship in the vacuum of space, cool something below absolute zero, live on an inhabitable planet which is only ten light-seconds from its star, find a crack in a mathematically defined radius, measure power in units of joules and energy in units of watts, shrink a shuttlecraft to the size of a thimble, make gravity propagate at superluminal speed, intercept photons without changing their energy or direction, see non-incident non-radiating particles, come to a meaningless "full stop" in outer space, expand the scale at which quantum effects are significant to encompass the entire universe, live without being born, fly a ship that was never built, dig up miraculously naturally-occuring alloys, vapourize something without producing any vapour, subject metals to high-energy plasma bombardment without damage, find magical "omega particles" that have greater energy density than matter/antimatter annihilation, and take a drug that protects you from radiation. Is this the science fiction series that its fans tout as the most "scientifically realistic" series in the world? Is this technology the same technology which some fans describe as "feasible?" I believe that Star Trek is neither feasible or realistic. Many renowned scientists watch Star Trek, but they do so because they derive entertainment value from it, not because they think it is realistic!
RunningWithRoses is truly a model Star Wars fan! Just look at these examples of his extraordinary wisdom! 1. Brilliant math: To figure out weapon power, he divided 10million terawatts by the number of turbo laser cannons, instead of the number of shots fired. 2. Used the most common mistake of 400GW for Ent D shields. 3. His personal research concluded the "terawatt source" scene confirms Ent-D total output, and we can simply dismiss Data's statement- "We are presently generating twelve point seven five billion gigawatts". 4. Claims NOBODY knows how fast SW sublight engines go. 5. Determined ST Impulse speed is slower than SW Sublight, probably using personal research to support it. 6. Assumes I dont know how SW shields work, as though we've ever discussed it. 7. Assumes I don't know anything about the appearance of large moving objects, which is supposed to explain Star Destroyers lack of aggressive maneuvering.. 8. Assumed Star Trek ships can't fire at warp. 9. Assumed ST ships have to travel in a straight line. 10. Assumed standard phaser strike power, based on his 1-terawatt output fail. 11. Assumed I used the 'bad piloting' near-miss SD incident as evidence of maneuverability. 12. Used the 'awesome thing called logic' attack when his shining example of research and knowledge fails pretty much completely. 13. Insisted I'm lying because he can't find the source that mentions SW sublight speed. 14. Suggested I explain SDnet examples or analysis, when clearly - it isn't official, and shouldn't be presented as such. 15. Questions 'whether a ship at warp can hit sublight targets' after claiming they couldn't fire at warp. 16. Figures Star Trek "ships can travel at 9 times the speed of light" 17. Assumes "warp 9 with LESS THAN A TERAWATT of power." makes no sense, but this is what his personal research suggests. 18. Announces that "Its quite irritating trying to argue with a trekkie while possessing this knowledge" - obviously in reference to his extensive personal research. 19. Claims he doesn't use insults or slander, as if he doesn't know you can be offensive and insulting without name-calling. 20. "I listen to anything that is true, not lies thrown in my face as Gramps has done on numerous occasions" < That's not only insulting slander but proof that he LIED that he doesn't rely on insults and slander. The funny thing is - these kinds of dialog makes up the majority of his comments, leaving almost nothing valid, or even interesting.
There have been many suggestions that extremely high relative speeds occurred before ST2 (in TOS), but all of these incidents are based on interpretations of dialogue, rather than direct observation. ST2 was the very first time we were able to directly observe space combat, rather than relying on conjecture based on dialogue. In that incident, as well as each and every subsequent incident, we observed close ranges and sub-relativistic relative speeds
Carlee Rox, according to screen evidences and tech manuals star wars fighters are much more powerful than any star trek capital ships seen in star trek. So how the fuck the inferiors enterprise-d and e would even destroy a single star destroyer when numbers clear show how star wars fighters would own with ease fleets of star trek ships. Your point make no sense. Here some numbers proving how star wars fighters are superior to star trek capital ships : Star Wars: Slave-1 Main guns: 64000 GW (2 kilotons per shot, 480 rpm firing rate onscreen in AOTC for time-averaged power output rather than peak output) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Main phasers: 3.6 GW Star Wars: Slave-1 Missiles: 190 megatons (tail-launched missiles; seismic charge mines are roughly 12000 megatons) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical Star Wars: Slave-1 Sublight acceleration: 2500G Star Trek: Enterprise-D Sublight acceleration: 1000G Star Wars: Slave-1 Operational range: not stated (however, Obi-Wan's starfighter has an operational range of 150,000 light-years, and is probably similar). Star Trek: Enterprise-D Operational range: 2750 light-years Star Wars: Slave-1 Shield heat dissipation: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has shield dissipation of 2 billion GW peak, and is probably similar) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak Star Wars: Slave-1 Reactor power: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has power output of 7 billion GW max, and is probably similar) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6 Star Wars: Slave-1 Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, same-day flight from core to galactic outer-rim systems requires speeds in excess of 10 million c) Star Trek: Enterprise-D Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6) star trek capital ships would not even be capable of fighting star wars fighters since these fighters are more much powerful than any federation ships. star trek ships = sad joke.
It is also important to remember that ST ships dont generally have battles with ships as slow as SW ships are by comparison. There is no advantage in speed significant enough to use a strategy based on keeping distance, and everyone knows in ST the typical conflict often comes down to forcing surrender, not always complete annihilation of a ship. Once a ship is too crippled to evade attacks, they're sitting ducks, and they start negotiating terms.
Large, high-powered Imperial jammers are often coupled with distortion field generators which can actually affect the maneuverability of starships, in addition to interfering with their sensors, as described in the following quote from General Dodonna during the Yavin briefing in ANH: "Also, their field generators will probably create a lot of distortion, especially in and around the trench. I figure that maneuverability in that sector will be less than point three." As always, I win. ^^
Nice to see you've devolved to Ad Hominem attacks. Notice how they say "respectable fraction" of lightspeed. So even if its regular lightspeed they refer to, it means that sublight is a considerable portion of that, at least 30-50 or 70%. Which makes them faster than any Trek ship barring FTL drives.
The turbolaser blast is held in a cohesive form BY A MAGNETIC FIELD. We've discussed this. They've even mentioned how the thermal energy is held together in a magnetic field. The same way TNT or nitroglycerin is held together by a metal structure and we then call it a bomb. The thermal energy is held together by a magnetic field, henceforth it can override any magnetic field that is lesser in strength. That's how they aim and shoot the plasma charge.
Also the Star Wars has this : A homing beacon, homing device, tracer, tracer beacon, tracking device, or pulsing beacon was used to track starships or any other entity being transported. Capable of transmitting data enormous distances, homing beacons could relay the position of a ship even after several hyperspace jumps. So tracking is not an issue for Star Wars ships. ^^
The energy yield of proton torpedoes depends on the exact model being used, but the largest ones exhibit power in the megaton or gigaton range. The recoil dissipation bracings on Imperial Star Destroyers can withstand "explosions measured in the giga-tonnage range" (ref. Slave Ship), and the Rebel fighters in Iron Fist used their proton torpedoes to blast through the hull armour of an unshielded Executor-class Star Destroyer.
Large, high-powered Imperial jammers are often coupled with distortion field generators which can actually affect the maneuverability of starships, in addition to interfering with their sensors, as described in the following quote from General Dodonna during the Yavin briefing in ANH: "Also, their field generators will probably create a lot of distortion, especially in and around the trench. I figure that maneuverability in that sector will be less than point three."
Also note - Federation is almost always inventing a new way of modifying sensors, shields and weapons, holodeck, transporters, medical procedures, etc. Borg are probably the most advanced, having a wealth of knowledge from so many species. I think a wide variety and adaptability beats having just a handfull of technologies that are extreme.
I was talking about THE FORCE OF THE EXPLOSION. It explodes at a small, concentrated area, but with a force that is equal to a 200 gigaton nuke. This especially comes from the fact that the Republic that developed the tech didn't want to screw planets over completely, and were more focused on destroying bunkers that can withstand nuclear explosions. He was fixing the ship, as we have seen. But if travel time was in the weeks, Han could've set aside some time to bathe.
No matter how fast you are going, you can always increase speed so long as you have fuel. Therefore, no vessel is at its maximum speed unless its fuel supplies have run out. If someone says that they are at full throttle, full impulse, or full power, they cannot possibly be at "full speed" unless they are out of fuel. A total lack of fuel is the only thing that would keep a spacecraft from continuing to accelerate.
The Voth city ship was massive and extremely powerful, they were able to beam the USS Voyager into a chamber inside their vessel which could clearly house many more starships. This transport was accomplished despite Voyager's shields being raised. The Voth were also able to take command of the ship's computer, shut the majority of systems down, and take primary power offline. The dampening field used to create this effect managed to render tricorders, communicators, and phasers useless.
The Voth possessed transwarp capabilities, as well as being able to scan from a distance of over ninety light years with significant accuracy, even down to the individual lifeform readings. The Voth also had spatial displacement capabilities - using interphase as a form of cloaking technology that moved their starships or even individuals out of phase.
The plasma torpedo weapon was an extremely powerful torpedo of high-energy plasma that was used by Romulan forces and the Cardassian Union, among others. This type of high-energy plasma weapon was first encountered by Starfleet when a Romulan Bird-of-Prey destroyed several of the Federation's outposts near the Romulan Neutral Zone.
Did I mention that its Superlaser can crack a planet's crust, vaporize any ship smaller than it (which there is none), and break a planetary shield. Not to mention that it can carry 696 fighters and 1,125 turrets. Starfleet ship are no bigger than a regular Star Destroyer (which is already mini compared to Eclipse), and there were two of them. And there are weapons smaller that can cut ships bigger than The Galaxy Class (625 meters) in half.
Also, ty for proving my point about the Borg weaknesses. As you correctly mentioned, the Borg only won vs species 8472 because Voyager helped them. No Voyager = Borg lost. Showing yet again how the Borg are not impressive as people may think since they needed help from another ennemy not even an actual ally. Oh the irony here. Voyager covered one the many Borg FAILURES. Borg strenght is a myth that Voyager completely destroyed.
An anti-capital ship proton beam cannon was also constructed on the surface of Dubrillion during the height of the Galactic Civil War.[3] Capital ship-scaled cannons were a feature of both the Eclipse-class and Sovereign-class Super Star Destroyer models. These guns could sear entire continents in a moment, but not pulverize an entire planet.[4]
The weapon expended large amounts of energy, forcing the vessel to decloak in order to fire, and limiting the vessel's operational range. Upon detonation, the torpedo would unleash an enveloping energy plasma, forcing an implosion in the target.
Ship-to-ship fire invariably occurs at ranges of a few kilometres at most, and any long-range fire is invariably directed at constant-velocity targets such as planets. This indicates that maneuvering impedes targeting, which is logical since maneuvering targets are more difficult to hit at long range due to beam propagation delay.
100% correct. The Star Destroyer is limited to forward and broadside firing. It's firepower is totally dependent on being pointed at its enemy. Not so for any Federation vessel.
As seen in Dark Empire, it is possible for a Star Destroyer to change course in hyperspace. The Emancipator did exactly this, by tracking an Imperial starship's communications transmissions and altering course so that it would be heading on a collision course. The Emancipator dropped out of hyperspace only a few kilometres away from the target vessel, and opened fire with all forward weapons.
The only way they could stop these catastrophes was to eject the entire warp core or restore the containment field. You would think that they could simply shut off the flow of antimatter into the chamber (or at the very least, redirect it out into space), but it appears that even if they do so, the warp core contains enough unreacted fuel at any time to destroy the entire ship. It's a textbook example of extreme excess reactivity.
It is perfectly conceivable that the Empire would be able to easily track a ship which is travelling at only a few thousand times the speed of light, but be unable to track a ship which is travelling at many millions of times the speed of light.
They'd laugh you off too, considering that they're a Star Wars site who believes a squad of X Wings can wipe out the whole Starfleet. What I was saying was that the chase by the Empire would have lasted days, since we see a short montage of the Imps bombing asteroids looking for them and the crew waiting them out. It would explain how they're at the Bespin system. But the trip between then an to Bespin didn't take that long.
"Laser weapons operated in a similar fashion as blasters. They were usually mounted on starfighters (A, B, X, Y-wing, TIE series, and Fett's POS, etc), freighters, and other small spaceships; larger warships instead used turbolasers... ships such as Trade Federation Lucrehulk-class battleships and the Millennium Falcon were equipped with quad laser cannon turrets" Also: "Blaster cannons were commonly less powerful than laser cannons, though were quite effective during atmospheric combat"
They have omnidirection sensors, but weapons do not omnidirectional tracking. They rely on maneuvering ships into position so their target is within the limited range of their cannons. That's a distinct disadvantage: Fighters have to get behind their targets, and cruisers have to turn perpendicular or facing their target. True omnidirectional tracking on a well designed ship would leave no blind spots.
Also, the ATST's legs were Durasteel. The armor is titanium, used for the TIE fighters. Durasteel is for ships and buildings, which can withstand kilotons to megatons of damage.
Have a look from the 1st forward-angle scene. 2 green bolts miss simultaneously to each side, followed by 3 more 1 after another, before the 1st hit. (Note, afterwards, as an impact occurs, there's a bright full-screen flash.) 2 more green bolts hit, each accompanied by the flash, 3 more pass by without a flash, 1 hits with a flash, then several more pass without. I never said they didn't score ANY hits, I said they missed, which they did, more often than they hit.
The difference between the Empire and the Federation is whenever the main cast of heroes are absent, the Empire always wins, suggesting their competence at handling the day-to-day duties of maintaining the galactic empire. With the Federation, if the main cast is absent, they always get their asses handed to them asking Kirk or Picard for favors. If it weren't for a small handful of men, they'd have lost already, suggesting their outright clumsiness at handling even normal tasks.
Indeed : As seen in Dark Empire, it is possible for a Star Destroyer to change course in hyperspace. The Emancipator did exactly this, by tracking an Imperial starship's communications transmissions and altering course so that it would be heading on a collision course. The Emancipator dropped out of hyperspace only a few kilometres away from the target vessel, and opened fire with all forward weapons.
Polaric ions are particles which can be used as a weapon or as a power source. They are extremely unstable, and can produce temporal effects. Since the Chaltok IV disaster in 2268, research and use of polaric ions was prohibited in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
Even George Lucas admitted his own personal recollection was a small fraction of the story. "After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story-however many films it took to tell-was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided." Leland never said the EU is non canon.
''however, all of the computers have to be connected to each other in a network in order to monitor the other systems.'' And thats why the USS Yamato was destroyed by a single virus. The virus attacked the whole network causing a warp core breach that destroyed the Yamato.
Exactly on the point. I like Star Wars, too. Grew up carrying around Storm Troopers and Boba Fett action figures in my pockets. I even bought the fighter toys that came out about 15 years ago or so. Star Wars is good sci-fi, but if you look at Star Trek and Star Wars objectively (something that Thierry is INCAPABLE of doing), Star Trek technology is just exponentially more technologically advanced. Both are still good Sci-Fi, but Trek is just more technologically sophisticated.
You actually made it a point to lambast people who use Wookieepedia. And again, a Death Star popping at the Yavin system and closing in on the gas giant in less than an hour IS a respectable fraction of lightspeed. Even moreso than reaching Jupiter in several hours.
In 2371, when the USS Enterprise came under attack from a D-12 Klingon Bird-of-Prey, Lieutenant Commander Data targeted an ionic pulse at the Bird-of-Prey's defective plasma coil. This had the effect of engaging the Klingons' cloaking device and lowering their shields, making them vulnerable to a counterattack. (Star Trek Generations)
Also, there was the fact that the movies were made in the seventies, and like the early Star Trek series, didn't have computer graphics, so they used dialog to exposit where they were.
CONTROL OFFICER: Squad leaders, we've picked up a new group of signals. Enemy fighters coming your way. LUKE: My scope's negative. I don't see anything. RED LEADER: Keep up your visual scanning. With all this jamming, they'll be on top of you before your scope can pick them up. The re-release has that dialog cut, I dont know yet about the original, but its in the script- Revised Fourth Draft, January 15, 1976 LUCASFILM LTD.
In "Arsenal of Freedom" we saw that a starship which decloaked for a full second could not be targeted by the Enterprise-D. This establishes a long targeting delay and raises serious questions about their computer systems. This would seem to suggest that a GCS targeting system requires a predictable velocity for at least one full second before it can reliably target anything, even at extreme close range.
"Any starship personnel would easily figure out there's a disruption in the sensor readings" But they would not know where on the ship. Outside ? Inside ? Sensor jamming in that case will be used to confuse star fleet officers the location of the homing beacon.
For example, in "Generations", they knew the reactor was going to blow five minutes before it actually did, and they couldn't do anything but evacuate. In "Disaster", we saw a similar scenario; the reactor was counting down to doomsday throughout the entire second half of the episode.
The difference is that he raised his daughters. Rodenberry made a sport of copping a feel from female cast and crew members, and bullied around Shatner and Nimoy to the extent that he tried to profiteer from Nimoy's public speeches, and tried to force Nimoy to call him master. That destroyed any semblance of friendship between the two. Lucas had his shits with Harrison Ford and David Prowse, but compared to Rodenberry, who was milking the actors of ST for every dime, Lucas is like St. Francis.
In "Generations", we found that they have only one warp core ejection system, and when it failed, the ship was doomed. They may occasionally speak of redundancy but they've given no evidence of it, so it seems apparent that the Enterprise lacks either redundancy or diversity (or both) in its critical systems.
Except they also have probes. And their scanners can trace energy signatures, seeing where the Trek ships came from and went. And the probes would easily find them, because as Voyager showed us, it takes years for them to traverse one quadrant with warp drives. Meaning that a quick search of nearby star systems would be all that they need.
one technical detail: A single ISD has the fire power to destroy an entire moon (and it wasn't a small one; BTW, this is in the EU, which is canonical if you were about to post saying otherwise). The energy necessary to do this is between 10million and 70 million terawatts of fire power. Therefore, each turbolaser(a has roughly, at minimum, 158,730 Terawatts of firepower (an ISD carries a minimum of 63 turbolasers). A stong shield in ST is 400gigawatts. So you can see who has more fire power. But a photon torpedo does explode with a huge amount of fire power, so if picard managed to fire a few at the beginning of the battle, he might win. However, the ISD would win any slugging contest with the Enterprise. And If a turbolaser were to puncture the shields and make a direct hit on the bridge... almost everyone inside would have been vaporized.
Want a bet? "After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story-however many films it took to tell-was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."-George lucas "We've stuck to a very clear branding strategy for the past decade. This is Star Wars. Individual movies come and go, as do TV shows, video games, books. They all contribute to the lore of Star Wars, but in the end it is one saga and that saga is called Star Wars. We've wanted to send a clear message to our fans that everything we do is part of that overall saga." -Jim Ward "There is one overall continuity." -leland Chee On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films." -Leland CHee. What more evidence do you NEED?! EU is canonical, and is most certainly not comical (unless you are reading the graphic novels)
Even if the Enterprise-D fired a full spread of photon torpedoes at the beginning of the battle, it would still have had no hope to defeat even a first-gen ISD. A "well balanced" battle against an ISD-I would require several Enterprise-Ds. The Enterprise-A - several of them as well, in fact - would have been short-lived cannon fodder within a few shots of the Star Destroyer's turbolasers. The difference in energy levels - both offensive and defensive - is hugely in favor of the Star Wars universe, as Thierry Saint-Jour pointed out. I'd venture to say that the Galactic Empire in the Palpatine era could defeat five of every race from the Star Trek universe all working in unison. And against the GE in the later eras of Pellaeon or Thrawn, the annihilation would come even quicker.
Christopher Calmer A well-balanced battle would require dozens of Enterprises just to beat ONE Victory Star Destroyer. I did some more research, and guess what I found: In the Episode The Dauphin, of TNG, Data states that a communication from the planet came from A (as in singular) terawatt source. Ryker remarks that a terawatt is more power than the entire enterprise can generate. Seeing as the energy needed to destroy a a moon is in the millions of terawatts, and knowing that a single SD can destroy a whole moon, that means (as I've said before) one turbolaser shot would literally evaporate the enterprise. Case closed.
Also, This myth is clearly refuted by the canon films and episodes. In STFC, we see that although a Borg cube can become seemingly impervious to the weapons of a single Federation starship, it cannot withstand the massed attack of dozens of Federation starships. This demonstrates that Borg "adapted shield" lower limits are somewhere above the firepower of a GCS and below the massed firepower of a fleet containing dozens of Federation starships.
It depends on which story you wanna adopt. The movie version that shows a sublight engine cross three solar systems in an hour, or the EU version that says five X-Wings have enough firepower to waste the whole of Starfleet.
This indicates that maneuvering impedes targeting, which is logical since maneuvering targets are more difficult to hit at long range due to beam propagation delay.
"Star Trek ships can maneuver at the speed of light" The Enterprise was being chased at Warp, they dumped the saucer section and then pulled a 4-second U-turn, similar to what the Falcon against the SD before landing on the rear of the bridge tower. Voyager started a similar U-turn at slipstream velocity. None of this matters though, because none of your SW ships can achieve ANY significant speeds in normal space.
A plasma charge was a type of plasma weapon used as a hand-held or starship-mounted directed energy weapon discharge or as an explosive by various organizations, including Starfleet, the Bajoran resistance, the Miradorn the Son'a and the Turei.
I can agree on that, to a point. But now we're talking about one universe that can pop stars and re-ignite them and another universe that can construct moon-sized starships that has a power output comparable to the luminosity of galaxies and unleash energy blasts that are comparable to a one second blast from a quasar, without melting. Tell me who's more advanced with such feats. Both feats are equally insane and amazing.
Lucasfilm LTD: "The usual speeds achieved by sublight drive were quite substantial, amounting to a respectable fraction of the speed of light. A freighter-sized vessel propelled by sublight drive could clear the atmosphere of a planet and its gravity well in a matter of minutes." GrampsFord and Slicktyker: "WAAH! THEY DON'T AGREE WITH US! QUICK, MAKE SHIT UP!"
Still doesn't change the fact that it took The Enterprise several HOURS to return to Deep Space 9 when it can take your average Star Wars ship only minutes.
There have been many suggestions that extremely high relative speeds occurred before ST2 (in TOS), but all of these incidents are based on interpretations of dialogue, rather than direct observation.ying on conjecture based on dialogue. In that incident, as well as each and every subsequent incident, we observed close ranges and sub-relativistic relative speeds.
The same year, the USS Voyager came under attack by Turei plasma charges after taking shelter on the Vaadwaur homeworld. The Turei later redirected their charges towards the remnants of the Vaadwaur city, a number of Vaadwaur assault fighters, and the underground chamber where a group of Vaadwaur had survived for 900 years in stasis. (VOY: "Dragon's Teeth")
Enterprise D has been shown to go from a dead stop to a swift exit from the immediate proximity of a borg cube that was about to explode. The star drive section has shown a 180 degree turn while at warp in about 4 seconds. Thats far more maneuverable than any Star Destroyers have ever been shown to execute..Since they can also jump from a dead stop directly to warp and BACK to a dead stop, I'd say your SW ships have no chance of ever coming close until they are ALLOWED to.
It absolutely DOES have something to do with being advanced. Its just like if you have sensors that can detect 1 thing vs another who has sensors that can detect many different things. Its like a medic that can specializes in 1 thing vs a medic that specializes in many things. Variety IS part of what makes something 'advanced'. That text from memory alpha was presented as part of the variety of tech. This isnt a contest, its a discussion about how 'advanced tech' should be determined.
Also, that statement is preceded by this statement: "There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories." That doesn't mean the post ROTJ stuff is non canon. It's just that he had no hand in them.
The TESB novelization described a "steady rain" of asteroids, and Anakin Skywalker: The Story of Darth Vader said that "turbolaser gunners blasted the largest rocks; those they missed impacted against the bow shields like multi-megaton compression bombs." We can see from the film that the ships were taking impacts at the rate of at least 1 asteroid per second if not more, and we know from the above quote that the asteroids were striking with several megatons of energy each.
" And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..." George Lucas 2008 Lucas has no problem putting out EU stuff because he likes money. But he set up the canon rules so he could put out stuff and it not be canon.
"swarming fighters flying at over a Hundred Megalights" < He has definitely done his research!! Now instead of contemplating scenarios based on the highest canon movies & shows, we have to convert all our data to low-level canon 'game scale' LOL
It is a foregone conclusion that our Star Destroyers are not maneuverable enough to avoid their weapons, but if we can quickly eliminate their large capital ships in battle we can reduce their fleet to their more maneuverable but less powerful fighters and heavy fighters . Under these conditions, we can use the traditional tactics of employing TIE fighters to clear away in-close attackers, while using capital ship fire to destroy any ships which are too well shielded for the fighters.
Ok but Shields of ENTERPRISE are still holding by 40GW. And 1 Phaser Segment is powerd by 5,1 MW(ENT-D) so at 200 Segments/Array =1,02 GW/Array*2(there are 2 Arrays)= 2,04 GW/FWD Fire Power! (not includes Torpedos)
As seen in STFC, their capital ships definitely lack the acceleration and maneuverability required to avoid light turbolaser fire, and we may even be able to hit them with heavy turbolaser fire (particularly in light of their size).
10 second hyperdrive microjumps in a random direction would be overly hazardous. "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?" If anything Star Wars has tried to express, it's that hyperspace travel is incredibly dangerous. Even for super-fast, advanced computers specifically designed to plot jumps, it STILL takes a few minutes.
I wasn't referring to Star Wars, I was stating in general. But as one example, Star Wars has a very FAST hyperspace, but they dont have technologies for FTL in normal space. I consider the variety of methods for FTL to outweigh they one extremely fast method, especially if Coaxial Warp.and Quantum Slipstream is comparable to Hyperdrive.
SW ships can fire from high orbit, something which Vader planned before Ozzel screwed it up. And in the opening battle of Episode III, we had a Republic cruiser fire a long-range heavy shot against a Separatist warship, causing a massive explosion that tore the ship apart.
"because they have about 10 ships in every system" Thats why in most Star trek movies and episodes that is no fleet orbiting Earth LOL. In Star Trek Generations, The Enterprise B was the only federation ship present in the Earth sector. Nice security there. ^^
Star wars ships can do precise micro-jumps : A 10-second hyperdrive microjump in any random direction at maximum speed would put at least 3 trillion km between it and any pursuing Federation fleet (perhaps much more, depending on the level of spatial distortions in the region).
The difference is their definition of lightspeed IS TO HOPSCOTCH FROM ONE END OF THE GALAXY TO THE OTHER IN A MATTER OF MOMENTS. That's what the characters on the movie call "going to lightspeed," which is clearly faster than regular lightspeed. The thing is, we never see Leia or Han look disheveled or show any changes in their travel from the Imperial chase to Bespin. The chase but the Empire shows passage of time, since at one point they were waiting out the Imps. But not the Bespin trip.
Ah, no. It's up to you. Either we go with movie canon which says that even SW sublight can outrun warp cores, or EU canon which says a single torpedo from an X Wing can kill any Starfleet vessel. Your choice.
Well, in that case, they can. As in, they can trace the energy signatures with probes, and any planet also giving off energy signatures would be the target, like in Hoth. Especially when the warp drive has such a short range, and it takes them years to cross a quadrant.
As much as has been said involving ST vs SW, each side has its own advantages. ST's advantages are:
1. Ships more manuevarable.
2. The Federation encourages self reliance and initiative, whuile the Empire suppresses it.
3. Individual weapons are more powerful.
4. Members of the Federation are voluntary and therefore there is no need for large security forces behind the frontline.
5. The Federation is accepting of Alien cultures. While some aliens are considered "useful" and therefore tolerated as second class citizens in the Empire, for the most part they are slaves. The Federation is accepting of and can therefore take advantage of special alien abilities.
SW's advantages are:
1. Larger ships.
2. Imperial Star Destroyers are designed with several back up systems making a single hit less likely to damage vital systems, shields being an obvious exception.
3. Imperial ships are designed as warships. The Galaxy class star ship is a science exploration vessel ship, armed because the unforeseen circumstances that can occur. As warships, Imperial vessels have alot more weapons than even seceral federation ships together.
4. The Empire's tactics usually involve task forces with 6 Star Destroyers and supporting vessels. While the Federation can put together fleets against dangerous foes such as the Borg, First contact would probably be a single ship.
5. The Empire has a huge infrastructure designed for war and a large lead in terms of numbers. This not as big an advantage as at first seems however. A lot of imperial forces are used to hold captive worlds and fight rebelious forces. We should also remember, The U.S. faced such obstacles against Germany in WWII, but managed to quickly transfer to a war economy that outproduced all other countries combined.
I agree. The Empire could also be compared to the Dominion in terms of the way they do things.
Overall: ok. In a largely haphazard estimate, I'd put the _Enterprise-E_ on par with a VSD II; above an ISD I (unless it were retrofitted); and below an ISD II. Kirk's Enterprise is completely in the dust, but points for "torpedo surgery" - 'cause Kirk would come up with something to get himself back in the game, if only for a minute.
This went from fence to downvote mostly because the title is "Picard vs Vader" - and in that conflict Picard would last this long; with the senior bridge crew quickly following - except Data. Other points lost because Vader would be more appropriately found commanding the _Executor_, or some other SSD, which would obliterate the _Enterprise-E_, especially if given that much prep time, even assuming a minimum complement.
Can someone please clarify something for me? I've come to a little confusion. I've noticed a theme in ST: their ships take structural and internal damage from impacts before the shields are down, often time stating immediately afterward that the shields are now at X% capacity. How is this even possible? Shouldn't the shields stop the energy? Wouldn't that mean the shields are, contrary to ST fans, inefficient at stopping energy-based weaponry? SW ships on the other hand don't take damage unless the shields drop.
Mike Wong came up with this theory : ''
''So why do Star Trek shields oscillate at a fixed frequency? Oscillation is a weakness, not a strength; if a field oscillates, then this means that its amplitude changes over time, which is not a good thing for a defensive system. In an AC-powered electromagnet, the magnetic field fluctuates between +B and -B, so there are finite moments when its field strength is zero!. In theory, a constant bombardment of energy would achieve some penetration of an oscillating shield regardless of whether it's at full strength or not. This would explain why Star Trek ships start taking damage before their shields fail, and it would also help explain the usefulness of "multi-phasic shields" (as well as the fact that they aren't used in battle1). It might be reflected when the shield is at its peaks, but it will get through during the valleys.''
In short, energy weapons seems to be able to bypass star trek shields.
And they call our ships primitive
If you have questions about shields, the best way to get your answer is to look into the nature and function of the energies involved. I mean, we all debated shield behavior so many times we've lost count, but without really understanding the nature of their function. I dont mean simply, 'shields stop energy or kinetic force from objects or they block transporters... I mean, HOW they do all this.
I started learning nature of the energies involved in order to finally settle the claim that Star Wars shields have no frequency. That would literally be like saying the electrons in Star Wars dont circle protons. Well of course they do. And its this atomic quantum scale wave-particle duality that the energy 'frequency' so often referenced in Star Trek is all about. So, unless SW fans are saying Star Wars has magic electrons that make up the shields and weapon energies, then SW weapons operate using energy with (since they don't modulate frequencies) a 'universal standard'. Since the ships are basically rolling off assembly lines with virtually the same exact components, it's safe to say their shield frequencies would the same for all ships in SW, at least those of similar design.
As for how ships still take a bit of damage while shields are still functioning? Consider deflecting a baseball with a bat. Do you feel it in your hands at all? Ball never got near your hands... it hit at the end of the bat! But the bat was an extension of your body, just as shields are an extension from the ship, and like a tractor beam. When the ship moves... the shields move with it. Stands to reason the same concept works in reverse., ya think?
I'll try and clarify this to show that shields are effective,just fyi. Think of shields like an old metal shield on your arm or a suit of armor on your body, it does it's job of helping keep the brunt of the damage away but you are still able to feel some of the impact. This is avoidable by making shields be able to give and take, but I seriously doubt Star Fleet want's to rubber ball as their shield system. What Gramps Ford said at the end of his comment is basically trying to say but still the the "shield' idea as part of the metaphor.
LordCocoa ah that makes sense
At the Empire's height, a much smaller proton beam cannon was mounted on the modified Imperial-class Star Destroyer, the Accuser.[5] Decades later, Booster Terrik had his private Star Destroyer Errant Venture fitted with a similar weapon said to be based on the Darksaber project.[6] A fighter-scale proton beam cannon was fitted to the Lancet Aerial Artillery vehicles used by the Empire.[7]
In STFC, the relative speeds of the Federation starships and the Borg cube were in the range of ~300 m/s. The ships can obviously achieve far higher speeds than this, but extremely high relative velocities increase the difficulty of targeting, so this establishes the maximum relative speeds at which a Federation starship can maneuver while still being able to reliably target an enemy vessel (even one as large and unwieldy as a Borg cube).
how does an unshielded ship survive an impact from a photon torpedo? The antimater in the torpedo should have made a massive crater, not a fireball!
Exactly the problem I had with the ST vs BSG video I just watched. It should be like hitting an armoured car with a nuke
even Star Trek ship are able to survive torpedo hits unshielded.
Only occasionally, and if they do, they now have a huge hole in them
Ryan Craig
the enterprise D was destroyed by a hit through the shields. I've never seen a ship shrug one off unshielded
Gerard Kean actually, it was several torpedoes and a bunch of disruptor bolts. Even that did not destroy the ship. The Enterprise D was actually destroyed by a warp core breach due to antimater containment fields failing
I love Star Trek and Star Wars both.
What most don't seem to realize that is obvious to fans of both is that
#1 Picard would have left sheilds down in the beginning of a new confrontation, and his wepons would have been powered down, as per Star-fleet proceedurs for first contact, however this video dose not state whether this is first contact clearly as it is a mash up so we will never know for sure, but assuming this was a known fight to be in all fairness shields and wepons would have been redy and a free shot at an unshielded Enterprise not possible.
#2 Stardestroyers have about 3 meters of duranium armor plating covering them AKA 9.84 feet of WHATEVER comparable armor that is to the star trek world and vice versa Enterprise is a heavily up-gunned and somewhat up armored science/exploration vessel it's armor is nowhere close to that of a ISD in thickness and if you have ever watched Star trek where there is battle damage to the enterprise...both of them {NOTE there where two of them in this confrontation} the armor/hull is MAYBE 6 inches thick in places where others are significantly less, the enterprise is almost armorless without sheilds, and in most casses it wins through teamwork with other vessels {old style ships seen in this video at least}
maneuvering into better positions when the enemy is unaware of there next unexpected move or to run away. {strictly combat speaking as negotiations are not possible in a death battle like this video is trying to portray. But would be one of its options otherwise} [HINT science/exploration vessel with golden tong captains] Kinda the whole point in the older star trek series. and always take serious damage quite quickly even in the star trek universe against even small warships...This is getting old here."science/exploration vessel" right from the get go this is an unfair set up for a frontal confrontation...Which the video is based around.
#3 Configuring the torpedo would have taken time they did not have
#4 Star destroyers have, just like the enterprise a "BATTLE BRIDGE" though it's called "The Auxiliary Bridge" in the star wars universe. Most imperial commanders don't use it even though it has better CNC capability's and is at the center of the ship in a heavily armored box is simply because A. the shots of space and ships outside the window are much cooler in movies. AKA {For show}
B. Imperial commanders are portrayed as arrogant idiots in the movies who think they are above it all. However most are more sensible and actually have a secondary crew in the Auxiliary bridge or are in there themselves. [READ THE BOOKS] C. Darth Vader has more than once commanded a battle from the Auxiliary bridge of a warship for all of the reasons mentioned before. [READ THE BOOKS].
D. The battle bridge is not used in star trek very often on screen for the same reasons as in star wars. [ITS JUST FOR SHOW TO GET RATINGS UP] [READ THE BOOKS]
E. I verry much doubt Picard or any star fleet commander would conduct battle from the primary bridge either if combat was expected...That's just stupid...
#5 In the Star Wars universe Antimater is used for a lot of stuff...Including antipersonnel mines......Think abot that for a moment anyone with a brain......Antimater is nothing new to these Star Wars ISD's.starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Antimatter
#6 Forgetting about the TIE Fighters and Bombers that carry starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Proton_bomb
Proton torpedo...........Proton Bomb.........
I'll let you all argue over that one.
#7 This is a pre typed copy past for crap like this I run into like this about Enterprise VS ISD with a few small eddits here and there. [Science/Exploration vessel VS War Ship + Comparible technology + Logic = 2 DEAD Enterprises + 2 DEAD favorite characters + A lot of dead people = A few weeks in dry dock for an ISD and victory leave for ISD crew.......
DON'T COMPARE A WARSHIP TO A PAIR OF BEEFED UP SCIENCE/EXPLORATION SHIPS.
IT JUST WASTES TIME.........AND LIVES.
Star Trek has Photon Torpedo and Quantum Torpedo's, not proton. The orange torpedo's in ST are Photon torpedo's and the blue are Quantum. The Enterprise E uses Quantum. Photon torpedo can range from 25 isoton yield to 200 isoton.
en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/Photon_torpedo. Just sayin.
Anyway the video itself is heavily biased for Star Wars to absurd levels.
Your also forgetting the 1 major flew this person had, it clearly says Picard vd Vader not Picard and Kirk vs Vader... so clearly Picard was dead in the water Star Wars ISD wins.
A beefed up science vessel vs a battle ship = more intel for the star trek crews and none for you poor battle ships. Your arguments when we do not know how tough the armor is when introduced to phasers and startrek torpedoes are a non-sequitur . In other words if an f22 comes up against a p51 mustang it is game over for the p 51 even though it has more armor.
PS: Teleporters do not work on ships with shields, ISD's and practically all capital ships in the Star wars universe have shields.
"lightandark"A beefed up science vessel vs a battle ship = more intel for the star trek crews and none for you poor battle ships. Your arguments when we do not know how tough the armor is when introduced to phasers and startrek torpedoes are a non-sequitur . In other words if an f22 comes up against a p51 mustang it is game over for the p 51 even though it has more armor.
#1 "Intel" is acquired militarily through experienced survivors of the confrontation and then provided to friendly forces.
#2 Crews aboard warships are a lot more heavily trained at finding ways of killing things and figuring out an enemy's weaknesses, generally speaking than a scientific vessels crew.
#3 An F22 can be shot down by even the weakest AA fire and in FACT, has never been fielded in a combat zone because of it's crippling cost to build, maintain and vulnerability to small arms fire.
# 4 In addition to it being an inferior aircraft to it's competitor the YF-23, being less stealthy, lower cruising speed, less range, but won the government contract through lobbying and being "Slightly" more maneuverable in a dog fight, even though in today's modern air warfare, the one who sees the enemy first usually wins (Called: "Look Down Shoot Down")
I'll let you think about that for a minuet....
#5 A "Phaser" is merely a Pulse modulated "Laser" being varied in frequency.
That is cannon by the way. Was it Data? who was feeding info from the ship to the enemy about the "Frequency" of the shields?.....;)
Can't remember. I'm sure someone knows what I'm talking about.
#6 ..."Your arguments when we do not know how tough the armor is when introduced to phasers and Star Trek torpedoes are a non-sequitur. ____ In other words if an f22 comes up against a p51 mustang it is game over for the p 51 even though it has more armor."
I thought we covered that QUITE CLEARLY.......I could be wrong though. :)
But I do know that Duranium, as portrayed in the Starwars univers is stronger than steel by a fair margin.
(Please don't make me have to go look up and put all that info too just to crush your last hope that Star Trek armor, "Thin as it is" Is stronger than Duranium and that all the MASS behind Duranium "Stardestroyers have about 3 meters of duranium armor plating covering them AKA 9.84 feet of WHATEVER comparable armor that is to the star trek world" accounts for nothing in any of this. compared to the "MAYBE 6 inches thick in places where others are significantly less" on the Enterprise.)
......Pleeeeeeeas?
P-51 vs F-22....How dose that even compare!?!
The F-22 Empty Weight is 31,670 lb (14,365 kg)
The F-22 Max takeoff weight is 60,000 lb ( 27,000 kg)
The P-51 Max takeoff weight is 12,100 lb ( 5,488 kg)
........Your shitting me....Right?
MAYBE if you said F-4U Corsair (One of the best prop driven fighters ever built before jets took over vs F-22 I might get your reference...Might.
The F-4U Max takeoff weight is 14,670 lb (6,654.2 kg)
......YaaaaaaaaannnnoooOOO.
The P-51 was not a heavily armored aircraft, it was a NIMBLE aircraft and it's gun's where week even for the time period.
In actual fact, it was not even one of the "BEST" planes we built during that war.
At least get your comparisons into some kind of "LOGICAL" template.
Neither your aircraft to face the F-22 nor the best ever made comes anywhere close to the mass of the F-22...Unless you compare the F-22s mass with no fuel, bombs, missiles, ammo, pilot or any consumables.
To the Latest model and MAXIMALLY loaded F-4U that can barely get off the ground under the bomb load...
Just so I can Fing coment
Best prop driven fighter I could find....Still not close to mass displacement....
I tried, I really did.
To give your comment a fair chance...
Please try again. :)
My hopes to finding a fair and decent duel between the two are still dashed.
First of all
Where are all the TIE fighters?
A Imperial Class Star Destroyer has the capacity to carry 72 Tie Fighters.
They carried 6 squadrons of TIE fighters.
1 squadron of interceptors
And 1 Squadron of TIE Bombers
They also have Ion Canon's which are mainly used against shields. They had 6 HEAVY turbolasers. Note that they aren't literal lasers. Turbolasers fire High Amounts of Raw powerful energy. Not light. These Turbolasers are capable of taking down a MC90.
The both ships are exploration vessels. They aren't meant to take on small Cruisers in a fight let alone Giant Battleships like the ISD. They are meant to be able to defend themselves long enough to allow a successful escape. Yes it may be able to take down One ISD using teamwork with another vessel but the same can be said for an ISD getting help from another. Imperial captains are arrogant but they are tactical Geniuses. So I say that this fight was ridiculously biased to ST because you failed to include the full power of a ISD.
P.S. I am a fan of SW but I'm not being biased here. I am just tired of these "fights" not having enough Umpf to them. This ISD could of taken out both ships if the maker of the video had done his research...
Dillion Fox Look, it's simple. which side can fight while moving faster than lightspeed? Identify that one, and there's your winner. And stick to the films, anything else which presents a stronger military power than the films violates canon.
Dillion Fox I'm assuming we are rounding down with the squadron numbers?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squadron_%28aviation%29
Just so I can Fing coment I guess. I mean I really only put what the wookiepedia said about ISD's fighter capacity
Tom Evans While we are on the topic of canon, to my knowledge, the only cap ships destroyed in SW where either getting shot by a supper weapon [death star] or in one instance Kamikaze attack [A-wing fighter to the bridge.]
Add to the fact that these ships have seen service through constant conflict over a period of decades, countless battles and few if any are ever destroyed save for extreme circumstances. EG: Shot with planet busting supper cannon, lucky shot or MASSIVE fleet battles involving THOUSANDS OF WARSHIPS SLUGGING IT OUT for about......SEVERAL HOURS!!!!!
By all indications, only the Borg have ships that can take a beating and dish one out on par with ships of the line in the SW universe....For that matter.....I think THAT would be a GOOD fight!,
Light speed?
I thought time was relevant, as fare as fighting goes while in a bubble of space/time where you are moving faster/slower than everything else outside of that bubble.
Meaning, so....? You can fight another ship that is traveling in a time/space bubble?
.....Ok......What dose that matter when comparing one space faring race that this has some meaning to as it is they're primary means of travel, translated over to another space faring race that uses a different method of faster than light travel where this is not a factor as fare as interception and combat is involved, because you are using a method of travel [as fare as we can tell] that is AT the rate of standard time...Just FASTER, than a time/space bubble that gets you there. [Eventually] But you hardly feel the passage of time. {PS: Faster is possible with ST warp, but tears the fabric of Time/Space and so eventually the Federation put into place a galactic SPEED LIMIT to STOP THE DESTRUCTION OF THE FABRIC OF THE UNIVERSE.}
While SW method seems to be both faster from point to point [Real time} and more sustainable as it {To the best of my knowledge} """""DOSE NOT"""" DESTROY THE FABRIC OF THE UNIVERSE.
So, how dose this have ANYTHING to do with fighting, in real space or in transit?
Aside from possibly creating a rift in time and space and destroying the universe because you want to use one method of space travel beyond what physics can support.
For every action, there is an equal opposing action.
......
In this case.
Action: Go faster.
Reaction: Destroy all of existence as we know it to try and fight another ship in a Space/Time bubble that dose not exist in any form that we can interact with, without destroying all of existence in the process......
(Slow clap)
Just so I can Fing coment For every action, there is an equal opposing reaction. *
Worf -"Captain, we are being probed!!!" Riker - "What is the source of the probe??" Worf - "A ship, dammit!! What were you thinking??" Lmao!!!
Yeah, they have a ship that sorta polices the timeline from people who mess with the temporal prime directive. The Voyager episode is called 'Relativity'. Also, in Year of Hell episode,there's a Krenim weapon ship- "Its main weapon was a beam that pushed objects out of the spacetime continuum, effectively erasing them from history." In Furture's end, we see the timeship Aeon. Both timeships were Federation.
star trek is the best
no it's not
it is
How is this even an argument. It's like people fighting about who would win in a fight, PeeWee Herman or Hulk Hogan. "I think PeeWee would win, cause he has tassles on his bycicle handlebars and a neat bow tie", says the Star Trek fan.
Well lets say your point is valid... why would star wars fans be carrying on an age-old argument that is according to you- completely one-sided?
Either you are full of crap, or everyone on the Star Wars side is an idiot for entertaining such ridiculous arguments. Sorry but I have to go with the higher probability of you have no clue what you're talking about.
Gramps Ford
You put out a video like this and ask a question like that? You doth protest too much
Gramps Ford There's plenty of well documented canonical science behind Star Trek, Star Wars, and most other science fiction movies, TV shows and video games. It's all very easy to find, as well. You should read it.
And it's rarely the SW fans who "carry on" the argument regarding the amount of military might each movie/show/game franchise wields. And anyway, the vast majority of us Star Wars fans are just as much fans of Star Trek, Babylon 5, Stargate, Mass Effect, Lexx and many others. The Science Fiction Universe in which we live is big enough for all of them, and many more.
Just because a lone Imperial Star Destroyer could annihilate a significant percentage of Starfleet doesn't make me "look down" on Star Trek. Far from it. Consider what each basic storyline is about. In Star Wars, almost all of their far, far away galaxy has been explored and mapped, so there isn't nearly as huge of an interest and expenditure to explore their galaxy as there is in Star Trek's considerably less-explored galaxy (i.e., the Milky Way). Star Wars is about war, strife, power struggles and the spiritual transcendence of the Jedi and Sith. Star Trek has its own wars and strife and power struggles, but it's more about the exploration of the galaxy, and keeping the peace between the often bickering races it contains.
The value of a science fiction franchise doesn't rest entirely with its military might. It just so happens, though, that the topic of this video and comment thread IS the warring abilities of the two largest franchises.
And according to the extensive canon of both sides, an Enterprise-D and an Ent-A defeating an Imperial Star Destroyer in a melding of the ST and SW universes is as likely to happen as a Wookie and Mr. Spock walking into my office at the same time in the actual universe.
***** Species 8472 can kill planets more effectively. However, someone thought the bigger the battle station. the more fans will go "ooooh!!" like they just found something shiny. That is of course the Star Wars way... instead of intellectual stimulation aimed at adults, Star Wars geniuses thought, "we need people killing and blowing things up. All the time.with no end in site!"
He gave up trying to win the technical argument, so now it's "Star Trek is smarter than Star Wars".
What's odd to me is to see a person who is a fan of Star Trek but not a fan of Star Wars. Every sci-fi fan I've ever known who liked one also liked the other. Strange.
Here some numbers proving how star wars fighters are superior to star trek capital ships :
Star Wars: Slave-1 Main guns: 64000 GW (2 kilotons per shot, 480 rpm firing rate onscreen in AOTC for time-averaged power output rather than peak output)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Main phasers: 3.6 GW
Star Wars: Slave-1 Missiles: 190 megatons (tail-launched missiles; seismic charge mines are roughly 12000 megatons)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical
Star Wars: Slave-1 Sublight acceleration: 2500G
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Sublight acceleration: 1000G
Star Wars: Slave-1 Operational range: not stated (however, Obi-Wan's starfighter has an operational range of 150,000 light-years, and is probably similar).
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Operational range: 2750 light-years
Star Wars: Slave-1 Shield heat dissipation: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has shield dissipation of 2 billion GW peak, and is probably similar)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak
Star Wars: Slave-1 Reactor power: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has power output of 7 billion GW max, and is probably similar)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6
Star Wars: Slave-1 Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, same-day flight from core to galactic outer-rim systems requires speeds in excess of 10 million c)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6)
star trek capital ships would not even be capable of fighting star wars fighters since these fighters are more much powerful than any federation ships. star trek ships = sad joke.
Non-canon, doesn't count.
Menua Khachatouryan All numbers approved by Georges Lucas since the author of these star wars tech books asked for Lucas authorization. Sorry its canon and screen evidences support these numbers too.
but ST has quite alot more sience behind it then SW... in the ST universe many things are quite documented why those power outputs etc.. why this and that thing generates this and those... while in SW it's just throwing around with huge numbers...
in other words.. sience fiction vs. fantasy
btw that doesn't mean I like one more then another... I like both ST and SW... even if I am a bit more on the treki side... but mostly only for the TNG era... the TOS is just 60s b-movie stuff.. and all the cinematic movies (except first contact) are just unlogical stuff trimmed for action...
where ST realy shines is the middle to late TNG era
oh and btw...
SW doesn't have the Q-Continuum !! I think obi wan or whoever there would go mad if they meet a Q one day :D
only yoda may capable of facing and understanding Q :D but because of that Q wouldn't visit him.. :D because that would be boring for him :D
NoNameLeft1500
In Star Trek, it is possible to use sound waves as a weapon against a starship in the vacuum of space, cool something below absolute zero, live on an inhabitable planet which is only ten light-seconds from its star, find a crack in a mathematically defined radius, measure power in units of joules and energy in units of watts, shrink a shuttlecraft to the size of a thimble, make gravity propagate at superluminal speed, intercept photons without changing their energy or direction, see non-incident non-radiating particles, come to a meaningless "full stop" in outer space, expand the scale at which quantum effects are significant to encompass the entire universe, live without being born, fly a ship that was never built, dig up miraculously naturally-occuring alloys, vapourize something without producing any vapour, subject metals to high-energy plasma bombardment without damage, find magical "omega particles" that have greater energy density than matter/antimatter annihilation, and take a drug that protects you from radiation.
Is this the science fiction series that its fans tout as the most "scientifically realistic" series in the world? Is this technology the same technology which some fans describe as "feasible?" I believe that Star Trek is neither feasible or realistic. Many renowned scientists watch Star Trek, but they do so because they derive entertainment value from it, not because they think it is realistic!
Enterprise took a 400 gigawatt hit it didn't take the shields down
RunningWithRoses is truly a model Star Wars fan! Just look at these examples of his extraordinary wisdom!
1. Brilliant math: To figure out weapon power, he divided 10million terawatts by the number of turbo laser cannons, instead of the number of shots fired.
2. Used the most common mistake of 400GW for Ent D shields.
3. His personal research concluded the "terawatt source" scene confirms Ent-D total output, and we can simply dismiss Data's statement- "We are presently generating twelve point seven five billion gigawatts".
4. Claims NOBODY knows how fast SW sublight engines go.
5. Determined ST Impulse speed is slower than SW Sublight, probably using personal research to support it.
6. Assumes I dont know how SW shields work, as though we've ever discussed it.
7. Assumes I don't know anything about the appearance of large moving objects, which is supposed to explain Star Destroyers lack of aggressive maneuvering..
8. Assumed Star Trek ships can't fire at warp.
9. Assumed ST ships have to travel in a straight line.
10. Assumed standard phaser strike power, based on his 1-terawatt output fail.
11. Assumed I used the 'bad piloting' near-miss SD incident as evidence of maneuverability.
12. Used the 'awesome thing called logic' attack when his shining example of research and knowledge fails pretty much completely.
13. Insisted I'm lying because he can't find the source that mentions SW sublight speed.
14. Suggested I explain SDnet examples or analysis, when clearly - it isn't official, and shouldn't be presented as such.
15. Questions 'whether a ship at warp can hit sublight targets' after claiming they couldn't fire at warp.
16. Figures Star Trek "ships can travel at 9 times the speed of light"
17. Assumes "warp 9 with LESS THAN A TERAWATT of power." makes no sense, but this is what his personal research suggests.
18. Announces that "Its quite irritating trying to argue with a trekkie while possessing this knowledge" - obviously in reference to his extensive personal research.
19. Claims he doesn't use insults or slander, as if he doesn't know you can be offensive and insulting without name-calling.
20. "I listen to anything that is true, not lies thrown in my face as Gramps has done on numerous occasions" < That's not only insulting slander but proof that he LIED that he doesn't rely on insults and slander.
The funny thing is - these kinds of dialog makes up the majority of his comments, leaving almost nothing valid, or even interesting.
There have been many suggestions that extremely high relative speeds occurred before ST2 (in TOS), but all of these incidents are based on interpretations of dialogue, rather than direct observation. ST2 was the very first time we were able to directly observe space combat, rather than relying on conjecture based on dialogue. In that incident, as well as each and every subsequent incident, we observed close ranges and sub-relativistic relative speeds
Carlee Rox, according to screen evidences and tech manuals star wars fighters are much more powerful than any star trek capital ships seen in star trek. So how the fuck the inferiors enterprise-d and e would even destroy a single star destroyer when numbers clear show how star wars fighters would own with ease fleets of star trek ships. Your point make no sense.
Here some numbers proving how star wars fighters are superior to star trek capital ships :
Star Wars: Slave-1 Main guns: 64000 GW (2 kilotons per shot, 480 rpm firing rate onscreen in AOTC for time-averaged power output rather than peak output)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Main phasers: 3.6 GW
Star Wars: Slave-1 Missiles: 190 megatons (tail-launched missiles; seismic charge mines are roughly 12000 megatons)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Photon torpedoes: 64 megatons max theoretical
Star Wars: Slave-1 Sublight acceleration: 2500G
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Sublight acceleration: 1000G
Star Wars: Slave-1 Operational range: not stated (however, Obi-Wan's starfighter has an operational range of 150,000 light-years, and is probably similar).
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Operational range: 2750 light-years
Star Wars: Slave-1 Shield heat dissipation: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has shield dissipation of 2 billion GW peak, and is probably similar)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Shield heat dissipation: 3311 GW peak
Star Wars: Slave-1 Reactor power: not stated (however, Amidala's personal yacht has power output of 7 billion GW max, and is probably similar)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Reactor power: ~4 billion GW at max warp 9.6
Star Wars: Slave-1 Max hyperspace speed: not stated (however, same-day flight from core to galactic outer-rim systems requires speeds in excess of 10 million c)
Star Trek: Enterprise-D Max warp speed: ~2000c (warp 9.6)
star trek capital ships would not even be capable of fighting star wars fighters since these fighters are more much powerful than any federation ships. star trek ships = sad joke.
Excellent, More than a match for poor enterprise.
Thierry Saint-Jour As I said, everytime a SW ship miss it destroy a planet... And you needed a Death Star?
THIS is LAME beyond BELIEF.
The Empire Strikes Back….and loses again
That went from daft, to just plain silly.
It is also important to remember that ST ships dont generally have battles with ships as slow as SW ships are by comparison. There is no advantage in speed significant enough to use a strategy based on keeping distance, and everyone knows in ST the typical conflict often comes down to forcing surrender, not always complete annihilation of a ship. Once a ship is too crippled to evade attacks, they're sitting ducks, and they start negotiating terms.
Large, high-powered Imperial jammers are often coupled with distortion field generators which can actually affect the maneuverability of starships, in addition to interfering with their sensors, as described in the following quote from General Dodonna during the Yavin briefing in ANH:
"Also, their field generators will probably create a lot of distortion, especially in and around the trench. I figure that maneuverability in that sector will be less than point three."
As always, I win. ^^
Nice to see you've devolved to Ad Hominem attacks.
Notice how they say "respectable fraction" of lightspeed. So even if its regular lightspeed they refer to, it means that sublight is a considerable portion of that, at least 30-50 or 70%. Which makes them faster than any Trek ship barring FTL drives.
The turbolaser blast is held in a cohesive form BY A MAGNETIC FIELD. We've discussed this.
They've even mentioned how the thermal energy is held together in a magnetic field. The same way TNT or nitroglycerin is held together by a metal structure and we then call it a bomb. The thermal energy is held together by a magnetic field, henceforth it can override any magnetic field that is lesser in strength. That's how they aim and shoot the plasma charge.
Incredible job sir! My hat's off to you for this remarkable piece of video entertainment!
Also the Star Wars has this : A homing beacon, homing device, tracer, tracer beacon, tracking device, or pulsing beacon was used to track starships or any other entity being transported. Capable of transmitting data enormous distances, homing beacons could relay the position of a ship even after several hyperspace jumps.
So tracking is not an issue for Star Wars ships. ^^
The energy yield of proton torpedoes depends on the exact model being used, but the largest ones exhibit power in the megaton or gigaton range. The recoil dissipation bracings on Imperial Star Destroyers can withstand "explosions measured in the giga-tonnage range" (ref. Slave Ship), and the Rebel fighters in Iron Fist used their proton torpedoes to blast through the hull armour of an unshielded Executor-class Star Destroyer.
Large, high-powered Imperial jammers are often coupled with distortion field generators which can actually affect the maneuverability of starships, in addition to interfering with their sensors, as described in the following quote from General Dodonna during the Yavin briefing in ANH:
"Also, their field generators will probably create a lot of distortion, especially in and around the trench. I figure that maneuverability in that sector will be less than point three."
Also note - Federation is almost always inventing a new way of modifying sensors, shields and weapons, holodeck, transporters, medical procedures, etc. Borg are probably the most advanced, having a wealth of knowledge from so many species. I think a wide variety and adaptability beats having just a handfull of technologies that are extreme.
I was talking about THE FORCE OF THE EXPLOSION. It explodes at a small, concentrated area, but with a force that is equal to a 200 gigaton nuke. This especially comes from the fact that the Republic that developed the tech didn't want to screw planets over completely, and were more focused on destroying bunkers that can withstand nuclear explosions.
He was fixing the ship, as we have seen. But if travel time was in the weeks, Han could've set aside some time to bathe.
No matter how fast you are going, you can always increase speed so long as you have fuel. Therefore, no vessel is at its maximum speed unless its fuel supplies have run out. If someone says that they are at full throttle, full impulse, or full power, they cannot possibly be at "full speed" unless they are out of fuel. A total lack of fuel is the only thing that would keep a spacecraft from continuing to accelerate.
The Voth city ship was massive and extremely powerful, they were able to beam the USS Voyager into a chamber inside their vessel which could clearly house many more starships. This transport was accomplished despite Voyager's shields being raised. The Voth were also able to take command of the ship's computer, shut the majority of systems down, and take primary power offline. The dampening field used to create this effect managed to render tricorders, communicators, and phasers useless.
The Voth possessed transwarp capabilities, as well as being able to scan from a distance of over ninety light years with significant accuracy, even down to the individual lifeform readings.
The Voth also had spatial displacement capabilities - using interphase as a form of cloaking technology that moved their starships or even individuals out of phase.
The plasma torpedo weapon was an extremely powerful torpedo of high-energy plasma that was used by Romulan forces and the Cardassian Union, among others.
This type of high-energy plasma weapon was first encountered by Starfleet when a Romulan Bird-of-Prey destroyed several of the Federation's outposts near the Romulan Neutral Zone.
20 seconds worth of Star Wars to over 9 minutes of Star Trek...that's hardly a battle.
Did I mention that its Superlaser can crack a planet's crust, vaporize any ship smaller than it (which there is none), and break a planetary shield. Not to mention that it can carry 696 fighters and 1,125 turrets. Starfleet ship are no bigger than a regular Star Destroyer (which is already mini compared to Eclipse), and there were two of them. And there are weapons smaller that can cut ships bigger than The Galaxy Class (625 meters) in half.
Also, ty for proving my point about the Borg weaknesses. As you correctly mentioned, the Borg only won vs species 8472 because Voyager helped them. No Voyager = Borg lost. Showing yet again how the Borg are not impressive as people may think since they needed help from another ennemy not even an actual ally. Oh the irony here. Voyager covered one the many Borg FAILURES. Borg strenght is a myth that Voyager completely destroyed.
An anti-capital ship proton beam cannon was also constructed on the surface of Dubrillion during the height of the Galactic Civil War.[3] Capital ship-scaled cannons were a feature of both the Eclipse-class and Sovereign-class Super Star Destroyer models. These guns could sear entire continents in a moment, but not pulverize an entire planet.[4]
The weapon expended large amounts of energy, forcing the vessel to decloak in order to fire, and limiting the vessel's operational range. Upon detonation, the torpedo would unleash an enveloping energy plasma, forcing an implosion in the target.
Ship-to-ship fire invariably occurs at ranges of a few kilometres at most, and any long-range fire is invariably directed at constant-velocity targets such as planets. This indicates that maneuvering impedes targeting, which is logical since maneuvering targets are more difficult to hit at long range due to beam propagation delay.
100% correct. The Star Destroyer is limited to forward and broadside firing. It's firepower is totally dependent on being pointed at its enemy. Not so for any Federation vessel.
As seen in Dark Empire, it is possible for a Star Destroyer to change course in hyperspace. The Emancipator did exactly this, by tracking an Imperial starship's communications transmissions and altering course so that it would be heading on a collision course. The Emancipator dropped out of hyperspace only a few kilometres away from the target vessel, and opened fire with all forward weapons.
The only way they could stop these catastrophes was to eject the entire warp core or restore the containment field. You would think that they could simply shut off the flow of antimatter into the chamber (or at the very least, redirect it out into space), but it appears that even if they do so, the warp core contains enough unreacted fuel at any time to destroy the entire ship. It's a textbook example of extreme excess reactivity.
It is perfectly conceivable that the Empire would be able to easily track a ship which is travelling at only a few thousand times the speed of light, but be unable to track a ship which is travelling at many millions of times the speed of light.
They'd laugh you off too, considering that they're a Star Wars site who believes a squad of X Wings can wipe out the whole Starfleet.
What I was saying was that the chase by the Empire would have lasted days, since we see a short montage of the Imps bombing asteroids looking for them and the crew waiting them out. It would explain how they're at the Bespin system. But the trip between then an to Bespin didn't take that long.
"Laser weapons operated in a similar fashion as blasters. They were usually mounted on starfighters (A, B, X, Y-wing, TIE series, and Fett's POS, etc), freighters, and other small spaceships; larger warships instead used turbolasers... ships such as Trade Federation Lucrehulk-class battleships and the Millennium Falcon were equipped with quad laser cannon turrets"
Also: "Blaster cannons were commonly less powerful than laser cannons, though were quite effective during atmospheric combat"
They have omnidirection sensors, but weapons do not omnidirectional tracking. They rely on maneuvering ships into position so their target is within the limited range of their cannons. That's a distinct disadvantage: Fighters have to get behind their targets, and cruisers have to turn perpendicular or facing their target. True omnidirectional tracking on a well designed ship would leave no blind spots.
thumbs up for the Future of Star Trek ships.
Also, the ATST's legs were Durasteel. The armor is titanium, used for the TIE fighters. Durasteel is for ships and buildings, which can withstand kilotons to megatons of damage.
Have a look from the 1st forward-angle scene.
2 green bolts miss simultaneously to each side, followed by 3 more 1 after another, before the 1st hit. (Note, afterwards, as an impact occurs, there's a bright full-screen flash.) 2 more green bolts hit, each accompanied by the flash, 3 more pass by without a flash, 1 hits with a flash, then several more pass without.
I never said they didn't score ANY hits, I said they missed, which they did, more often than they hit.
The difference between the Empire and the Federation is whenever the main cast of heroes are absent, the Empire always wins, suggesting their competence at handling the day-to-day duties of maintaining the galactic empire. With the Federation, if the main cast is absent, they always get their asses handed to them asking Kirk or Picard for favors. If it weren't for a small handful of men, they'd have lost already, suggesting their outright clumsiness at handling even normal tasks.
Indeed : As seen in Dark Empire, it is possible for a Star Destroyer to change course in hyperspace. The Emancipator did exactly this, by tracking an Imperial starship's communications transmissions and altering course so that it would be heading on a collision course. The Emancipator dropped out of hyperspace only a few kilometres away from the target vessel, and opened fire with all forward weapons.
Polaric ions are particles which can be used as a weapon or as a power source. They are extremely unstable, and can produce temporal effects.
Since the Chaltok IV disaster in 2268, research and use of polaric ions was prohibited in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants.
Even George Lucas admitted his own personal recollection was a small fraction of the story.
"After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story-however many films it took to tell-was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided."
Leland never said the EU is non canon.
''however, all of the computers have to be connected to each other in a network in order to monitor the other systems.''
And thats why the USS Yamato was destroyed by a single virus. The virus attacked the whole network causing a warp core breach that destroyed the Yamato.
''Technical specifications
Modified systems
■Six proton torpedo launchers
■Improved sensors
■Class 1.5 hyperdrive
■Reduced crew and gunnery requirements
■Proton beam cannon
Length
1,600 meters
Complement
Rogue Wing''
Exactly on the point. I like Star Wars, too. Grew up carrying around Storm Troopers and Boba Fett action figures in my pockets. I even bought the fighter toys that came out about 15 years ago or so. Star Wars is good sci-fi, but if you look at Star Trek and Star Wars objectively (something that Thierry is INCAPABLE of doing), Star Trek technology is just exponentially more technologically advanced. Both are still good Sci-Fi, but Trek is just more technologically sophisticated.
You actually made it a point to lambast people who use Wookieepedia.
And again, a Death Star popping at the Yavin system and closing in on the gas giant in less than an hour IS a respectable fraction of lightspeed. Even moreso than reaching Jupiter in several hours.
In 2371, when the USS Enterprise came under attack from a D-12 Klingon Bird-of-Prey, Lieutenant Commander Data targeted an ionic pulse at the Bird-of-Prey's defective plasma coil. This had the effect of engaging the Klingons' cloaking device and lowering their shields, making them vulnerable to a counterattack. (Star Trek Generations)
Also, there was the fact that the movies were made in the seventies, and like the early Star Trek series, didn't have computer graphics, so they used dialog to exposit where they were.
CONTROL OFFICER: Squad leaders, we've picked up a new group of signals. Enemy fighters coming your way.
LUKE: My scope's negative. I don't see anything.
RED LEADER: Keep up your visual scanning. With all this jamming, they'll be on top of you before your scope can pick them up.
The re-release has that dialog cut, I dont know yet about the original, but its in the script- Revised Fourth Draft, January 15, 1976 LUCASFILM LTD.
In "Arsenal of Freedom" we saw that a starship which decloaked for a full second could not be targeted by the Enterprise-D. This establishes a long targeting delay and raises serious questions about their computer systems. This would seem to suggest that a GCS targeting system requires a predictable velocity for at least one full second before it can reliably target anything, even at extreme close range.
Exactly. At this rate, if the Rebels go to war with theFederation, all they'd need to do is send Artoo.
"Any starship personnel would easily figure out there's a disruption in the sensor readings"
But they would not know where on the ship. Outside ? Inside ? Sensor jamming in that case will be used to confuse star fleet officers the location of the homing beacon.
FINALLY! You admitted you are wrong and that the sublight engines are LESS then the speed of light!
We are actualy making progress now.
When the most basic form of Star Wars canon disagrees with you, you have nothing valid to say.
For example, in "Generations", they knew the reactor was going to blow five minutes before it actually did, and they couldn't do anything but evacuate. In "Disaster", we saw a similar scenario; the reactor was counting down to doomsday throughout the entire second half of the episode.
The difference is that he raised his daughters. Rodenberry made a sport of copping a feel from female cast and crew members, and bullied around Shatner and Nimoy to the extent that he tried to profiteer from Nimoy's public speeches, and tried to force Nimoy to call him master. That destroyed any semblance of friendship between the two. Lucas had his shits with Harrison Ford and David Prowse, but compared to Rodenberry, who was milking the actors of ST for every dime, Lucas is like St. Francis.
In "Generations", we found that they have only one warp core ejection system, and when it failed, the ship was doomed. They may occasionally speak of redundancy but they've given no evidence of it, so it seems apparent that the Enterprise lacks either redundancy or diversity (or both) in its critical systems.
Except they also have probes. And their scanners can trace energy signatures, seeing where the Trek ships came from and went. And the probes would easily find them, because as Voyager showed us, it takes years for them to traverse one quadrant with warp drives. Meaning that a quick search of nearby star systems would be all that they need.
one technical detail: A single ISD has the fire power to destroy an entire moon (and it wasn't a small one; BTW, this is in the EU, which is canonical if you were about to post saying otherwise). The energy necessary to do this is between 10million and 70 million terawatts of fire power. Therefore, each turbolaser(a has roughly, at minimum, 158,730 Terawatts of firepower (an ISD carries a minimum of 63 turbolasers). A stong shield in ST is 400gigawatts. So you can see who has more fire power. But a photon torpedo does explode with a huge amount of fire power, so if picard managed to fire a few at the beginning of the battle, he might win. However, the ISD would win any slugging contest with the Enterprise.
And If a turbolaser were to puncture the shields and make a direct hit on the bridge... almost everyone inside would have been vaporized.
the EU IS COMICAL NOT CANONICAL
Want a bet?
"After Star Wars was released, it became apparent that my story-however many films it took to tell-was only one of thousands that could be told about the characters who inhabit its galaxy. But these were not stories I was destined to tell. Instead they would spring from the imagination of other writers, inspired by the glimpse of a galaxy that Star Wars provided. Today it is an amazing, if unexpected, legacy of Star Wars that so many gifted writers are contributing new stories to the Saga."-George lucas
"We've stuck to a very clear branding strategy for the past decade. This is Star Wars. Individual movies come and go, as do TV shows, video games, books. They all contribute to the lore of Star Wars, but in the end it is one saga and that saga is called Star Wars. We've wanted to send a clear message to our fans that everything we do is part of that overall saga." -Jim Ward
"There is one overall continuity." -leland Chee
On the other hand, the quote you provide makes it sound like the EU is separate from George's vision of the Star Wars universe. It is not. The EU must follow certain tenets set by George through the films and other guidelines that he provides outside of the films." -Leland CHee.
What more evidence do you NEED?! EU is canonical, and is most certainly not comical (unless you are reading the graphic novels)
Even if the Enterprise-D fired a full spread of photon torpedoes at the beginning of the battle, it would still have had no hope to defeat even a first-gen ISD. A "well balanced" battle against an ISD-I would require several Enterprise-Ds. The Enterprise-A - several of them as well, in fact - would have been short-lived cannon fodder within a few shots of the Star Destroyer's turbolasers. The difference in energy levels - both offensive and defensive - is hugely in favor of the Star Wars universe, as Thierry Saint-Jour pointed out.
I'd venture to say that the Galactic Empire in the Palpatine era could defeat five of every race from the Star Trek universe all working in unison. And against the GE in the later eras of Pellaeon or Thrawn, the annihilation would come even quicker.
Christopher Calmer A well-balanced battle would require dozens of Enterprises just to beat ONE Victory Star Destroyer. I did some more research, and guess what I found:
In the Episode The Dauphin, of TNG, Data states that a communication from the planet came from A (as in singular) terawatt source. Ryker remarks that a terawatt is more power than the entire enterprise can generate. Seeing as the energy needed to destroy a a moon is in the millions of terawatts, and knowing that a single SD can destroy a whole moon, that means (as I've said before) one turbolaser shot would literally evaporate the enterprise. Case closed.
RunningWithRoses Derp!! Star Wars ships are so slow in normal space that they wouldn't even have the effective means to get within weapons range, much less effective striking distance. Not only that, but the weapons in Star Wars are shown barely traveling much faster than that. Even an attempt to 'spray' an area with multiple turbolasers on multiple star destroyers all synchronized to fire simultaneously would be a futile effort when trying to time the shots to intersect the path ahead of a ship capable of relativistic speed.
The weapons in SW don't even travel relativistic speed, and ST ships CAN actually maneuver, so how do you get them to slow down and sit still so Star Wars can shoot them effectively?
And before someone chimes in with 'acceleration' specs, save that shit. Star Wars writers released a statement dictating the nature of SW sublight speed:
"Sublight drives are normally used for local journeys. Starships can move at several thousand kilometers per second in open space, allowing travel from one planet to another planet in the same system in a few hours." - ©2003 LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC. ©2003 Lucasfilm Ltd.
If SW cant get ST ships to willingly slow down to get shot at, then Case Closed. They're stuck attempting a futile chase while Star Trek modifies it's strategy to exploit their weaknesses, namely the fact they use standard energy and never modulate the frequencies of ANYTHING. hate to be the one to tell you, but extremely high standard energy amplitude waveforms are still waveforms that can be exploited.
Also, This myth is clearly refuted by the canon films and episodes. In STFC, we see that although a Borg cube can become seemingly impervious to the weapons of a single Federation starship, it cannot withstand the massed attack of dozens of Federation starships. This demonstrates that Borg "adapted shield" lower limits are somewhere above the firepower of a GCS and below the massed firepower of a fleet containing dozens of Federation starships.
It depends on which story you wanna adopt. The movie version that shows a sublight engine cross three solar systems in an hour, or the EU version that says five X-Wings have enough firepower to waste the whole of Starfleet.
This indicates that maneuvering impedes targeting, which is logical since maneuvering targets are more difficult to hit at long range due to beam propagation delay.
"Star Trek ships can maneuver at the speed of light"
The Enterprise was being chased at Warp, they dumped the saucer section and then pulled a 4-second U-turn, similar to what the Falcon against the SD before landing on the rear of the bridge tower.
Voyager started a similar U-turn at slipstream velocity. None of this matters though, because none of your SW ships can achieve ANY significant speeds in normal space.
A plasma charge was a type of plasma weapon used as a hand-held or starship-mounted directed energy weapon discharge or as an explosive by various organizations, including Starfleet, the Bajoran resistance, the Miradorn the Son'a and the Turei.
It's fun to watch Kirk and Picard of the Federation Starfleet are working for the Rebel Alliance.
I can agree on that, to a point. But now we're talking about one universe that can pop stars and re-ignite them and another universe that can construct moon-sized starships that has a power output comparable to the luminosity of galaxies and unleash energy blasts that are comparable to a one second blast from a quasar, without melting. Tell me who's more advanced with such feats. Both feats are equally insane and amazing.
Lucasfilm LTD:
"The usual speeds achieved by sublight drive were quite substantial, amounting to a respectable fraction of the speed of light. A freighter-sized vessel propelled by sublight drive could clear the atmosphere of a planet and its gravity well in a matter of minutes."
GrampsFord and Slicktyker:
"WAAH! THEY DON'T AGREE WITH US! QUICK, MAKE SHIT UP!"
"a Hundred Megalights"
LMAO
Still doesn't change the fact that it took The Enterprise several HOURS to return to Deep Space 9 when it can take your average Star Wars ship only minutes.
Thank you for proving my point.
In this case, it was less than an our, considering they were in the same sector but was three solar systems away.
There have been many suggestions that extremely high relative speeds occurred before ST2 (in TOS), but all of these incidents are based on interpretations of dialogue, rather than direct observation.ying on conjecture based on dialogue. In that incident, as well as each and every subsequent incident, we observed close ranges and sub-relativistic relative speeds.
The same year, the USS Voyager came under attack by Turei plasma charges after taking shelter on the Vaadwaur homeworld. The Turei later redirected their charges towards the remnants of the Vaadwaur city, a number of Vaadwaur assault fighters, and the underground chamber where a group of Vaadwaur had survived for 900 years in stasis. (VOY: "Dragon's Teeth")
Enterprise D has been shown to go from a dead stop to a swift exit from the immediate proximity of a borg cube that was about to explode. The star drive section has shown a 180 degree turn while at warp in about 4 seconds. Thats far more maneuverable than any Star Destroyers have ever been shown to execute..Since they can also jump from a dead stop directly to warp and BACK to a dead stop, I'd say your SW ships have no chance of ever coming close until they are ALLOWED to.
It absolutely DOES have something to do with being advanced. Its just like if you have sensors that can detect 1 thing vs another who has sensors that can detect many different things. Its like a medic that can specializes in 1 thing vs a medic that specializes in many things. Variety IS part of what makes something 'advanced'.
That text from memory alpha was presented as part of the variety of tech. This isnt a contest, its a discussion about how 'advanced tech' should be determined.
Also, that statement is preceded by this statement:
"There's three pillars of Star Wars. I'll probably get in trouble for this but it's OK! There's three pillars: the father, the son and the holy ghost. I'm the father, Howard Roffman [president of Lucas Licensing] is the son and the holy ghost is the fans, this kind of ethereal world of people coming up with all kinds of different ideas and histories."
That doesn't mean the post ROTJ stuff is non canon. It's just that he had no hand in them.
The TESB novelization described a "steady rain" of asteroids, and Anakin Skywalker: The Story of Darth Vader said that "turbolaser gunners blasted the largest rocks; those they missed impacted against the bow shields like multi-megaton compression bombs." We can see from the film that the ships were taking impacts at the rate of at least 1 asteroid per second if not more, and we know from the above quote that the asteroids were striking with several megatons of energy each.
" And now there have been novels about the events after Episode VI, which isn't at all what I would have done with it. The Star Wars story is really the tragedy of Darth Vader. That is the story. Once Vader dies, he doesn't come back to life, the Emperor doesn't get cloned and Luke doesn't get married..."
George Lucas 2008
Lucas has no problem putting out EU stuff because he likes money. But he set up the canon rules so he could put out stuff and it not be canon.
"swarming fighters flying at over a Hundred Megalights" < He has definitely done his research!! Now instead of contemplating scenarios based on the highest canon movies & shows, we have to convert all our data to low-level canon 'game scale' LOL
It is a foregone conclusion that our Star Destroyers are not maneuverable enough to avoid their weapons, but if we can quickly eliminate their large capital ships in battle we can reduce their fleet to their more maneuverable but less powerful fighters and heavy fighters . Under these conditions, we can use the traditional tactics of employing TIE fighters to clear away in-close attackers, while using capital ship fire to destroy any ships which are too well shielded for the fighters.
10MWPhazers>1GWLasers in damage potential.
Ok but Shields of ENTERPRISE are still holding by 40GW. And 1 Phaser Segment is powerd by 5,1 MW(ENT-D) so at 200 Segments/Array =1,02 GW/Array*2(there are 2 Arrays)=
2,04 GW/FWD Fire Power! (not includes Torpedos)
Nice info!
As seen in STFC, their capital ships definitely lack the acceleration and maneuverability required to avoid light turbolaser fire, and we may even be able to hit them with heavy turbolaser fire (particularly in light of their size).
10 second hyperdrive microjumps in a random direction would be overly hazardous. "Traveling through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy! Without precise calculations we could fly right through a star or bounce too close to a supernova, and that'd end your trip real quick, wouldn't it?"
If anything Star Wars has tried to express, it's that hyperspace travel is incredibly dangerous. Even for super-fast, advanced computers specifically designed to plot jumps, it STILL takes a few minutes.
I wasn't referring to Star Wars, I was stating in general. But as one example, Star Wars has a very FAST hyperspace, but they dont have technologies for FTL in normal space. I consider the variety of methods for FTL to outweigh they one extremely fast method, especially if Coaxial Warp.and Quantum Slipstream is comparable to Hyperdrive.
SW ships can fire from high orbit, something which Vader planned before Ozzel screwed it up. And in the opening battle of Episode III, we had a Republic cruiser fire a long-range heavy shot against a Separatist warship, causing a massive explosion that tore the ship apart.
"because they have about 10 ships in every system"
Thats why in most Star trek movies and episodes that is no fleet orbiting Earth LOL. In Star Trek Generations, The Enterprise B was the only federation ship present in the Earth sector. Nice security there. ^^
Star wars ships can do precise micro-jumps : A 10-second hyperdrive microjump in any random direction at maximum speed would put at least 3 trillion km between it and any pursuing Federation fleet (perhaps much more, depending on the level of spatial distortions in the region).
The difference is their definition of lightspeed IS TO HOPSCOTCH FROM ONE END OF THE GALAXY TO THE OTHER IN A MATTER OF MOMENTS. That's what the characters on the movie call "going to lightspeed," which is clearly faster than regular lightspeed.
The thing is, we never see Leia or Han look disheveled or show any changes in their travel from the Imperial chase to Bespin. The chase but the Empire shows passage of time, since at one point they were waiting out the Imps. But not the Bespin trip.
Ah, no. It's up to you. Either we go with movie canon which says that even SW sublight can outrun warp cores, or EU canon which says a single torpedo from an X Wing can kill any Starfleet vessel.
Your choice.
Well, in that case, they can. As in, they can trace the energy signatures with probes, and any planet also giving off energy signatures would be the target, like in Hoth. Especially when the warp drive has such a short range, and it takes them years to cross a quadrant.