It could be the year 2050 and still everyone would be debating about the alien bird. Robin, the bird named mechanic, fights a bird who is a mechanic in the end. Such a great game with a deep story by Konjak.
All this talk about how the bird is this malicious force manipulating the world for his own ends...no. No, no, no. Look at his outfit, look at his cockpit, look at his mannerisms. He's a repairman. You killed an Omega Controller, it sent a distress signal into space, someone's "check engine" light went on and in comes this everyday, nine-to-five maintenance man to fix it. Look at the notes he pulls out and tosses away, that's him flipping through his work orders. "Fucking hell, what's the regulation for sentients on the rig? Oh whatever, I'll just kill it, they broke the damn thing anyway." That's it. There's no grand manipulation or deception here, the Starworm religion was entirely ignorant humans worshiping an interstellar handyman.
Is interesting that your color is the opposite with the color of the commenter Freaddy, the person who probably started the theories of alien birds manipulating humanity. I find both your theory and the theory of Freddy good.
thats the vibe I was getting, then he points to the ivory levels like "look what you fuckin did", not to mention he uses a wrench, which I took to mean he was an engineer
I do believe it's as simple as this and I like that this story went that way. No convoluted ending with a final boss that had grand master plans and grandiose beliefs. It was just a being in control of another for their own needs, and mankind made a mountain out of a molehill of the situation. We tend to do that.
I find it pretty fitting that 'Him', the final boss was nothing more than an alien bird. Just like the very religion that serves him, he is a complete phony. He is no great being with any good intentions, he is a simple creature that deceived everyone, including the head of the One Concern and the great deceiver Mother herself, for his selfish needs. He is indeed powerful. He has the technology to modify an entire planet to serve his goal. However like the agents and Mother, he is no divine being who is invincible. He is a mechanic who uses his skill for himself, even if it tortures countless people and ultimately destroy the world. His demise is brought by his polar opposite, Robin the young, kind mechanic who simply wanted to help people, but wasn't permitted to, but did so anyway.
I don't believe that the alien bird was really selfish, I'm pretty sure he doesn't act alone and comes from one species who maintains artifical planets. As such he isn't really interested in the religion, it was something that the humas around him have created, just because they saw how he gives them ivory. As you can see on the final battle he was about to refill the planet and repair the machine (you can see another frame at the entrance of the crater.) He even tried to tell you what he was doing. There is probably some higher purpose by some higher developed race, but this guy is no mastermind just some mechanic who does his routine work and we've interrupted him.
Ageleszly I haven't really thought of it that way. I guess I might have been fixated on seeing the finale as an ultimate good vs evil. Perhaps he isn't evil, and simply misunderstood because of the chaos and madness of the world. However, I still want to ask, if he really was here just to do his job, I kinda want to know why he, and his race would refuel the planet with Ivory in the first place. Having the technology is one thing, but having resources is another matter. In a practical view point, handing out resources (precious or otherwise) to an underdeveloped race seems a bit wasteful, and potentially even dangerous, unless his race simply wanted to see how people would use the ivory and nothing more. Nevertheless I really appreciate your feedback and insight.
Nightmare first boss: Your brother in fury...in the back you can see her wife and her child...Killed..her home in ruins and his heart on a pendulum like he is near to get berserk. Nightmare second boss: The people who the "mother" doctrine killed. Childrens, youngs..adult.. Nightmare third boss: You on the moon, u can't save your friend..you are lamenting it. Nightare Fourth and last: I think its flitz..but no..it was black because u kill her..she was firing herself and wanted to live.
I was thinking that the planet was originally created to generate ivory, and humans came to the planet some time after the fact. All of the plants look fake, and only the ones that the isi have look like ones we’d have. Also, remember their “ancestral vessel”? I think that was how humans came to live on that planet, and the records tell of how that worm destroyed their old planet since the concern also had one of those vessels and knew of the creature’s existence.
I did a bit more research on the final boss and well, birds to make some more sense of him. The conclusion that I came to, was that the final boss was no ordinary bird. It is... a BLUE JAY. *dun dun dun* Yes, captain obvious, we can see it is a blue alien bird. Also, I first speculated him being a blue jay simply because of his color, and a google image of a blue jay has the same short black beak. However the plot thickens. Blue jays despite their soothing color, are quite cunning, calculative, and ferocious birds. They have the ability to mimic the cries of much larger predators such as falcons and eagles. They act like much greater beings just like the final boss of Iconoclasts who poses himself as this almighty god. However blue jays do not mimic cries in the open, they do it while hidden. The reason for this is that they do not have fast wings, so they are quite easy prey for larger birds that it imitates. This makes an interesting relationship with other small birds. Although blue jays usually feast on nuts and fruit, they sometimes hunt and kill smaller birds and even devour their eggs, but at the same time, smaller birds are somewhat protected under the blue jay's control, giving ferocious cries and chasing larger predators away. I'm not saying that Iconoclasts 2 is confirmed and we will have a space war against other bird aliens, but this habitat parallels the world of Iconoclasts where people are under this rule where they maintain order, but also suffer under a being that acts as a much greater being. I don't think it is coincidence that the main character's name is Robin. Not only do they have conflicting color schemes, the BLUE jay and the RED robin, but blue jays are also known to use the nest of other birds to hatch their eggs, one of them, and the most common, being the nest of a robin. The death of the final boss is also poetic, because he is killed by the very thing he had imitated. Just like the blue jay being hunted by the falcon it poses to be, the final boss of Iconoclasts dies, by the hand of God that he posed to be.
Still, in the first boss battle (the big controller that did the penance on that house in the beggining), when he jumps, you can see that under the planet spines, there are feathers, so it's more probable that the birds were an advanced civilization from long ago.
Thanks for your interpretation of the final boss & ending. That's a really interesting analysis you came up with. It really brings some closure to the ending. This story in this game was so intriguing. Infact it's what kept me playing. I'm not really good at these type of games even though I enjoy them. I had to beat many of the end bosses on relaxed mode where you pretty much take no damage. IDK how any of you beat it without rallied mode. My gosh is that difficult. But I was so intrigued by this games plot & story with each of the different cultures & religions throwing their fate at some imaginary divine being that I had to just see it play out. And I was really happy with the ay it ended. The divine "He" was no more but a superior creature no different from anyone else. Go Team Red Robin!
So I just realized something. While not a god, I'm convinced the Starworm is a member of a space-faring alien race. It looks fleshy, has telepathic powers(likely useful for communication in the soundless vacuum of space), and when its head opens for the bird to get out, it looks more like skin being peeled back. It was probably captured and converted, likely using the blue eyes to control it. Notice how when the bird hits the button on the remote after the fight, it electrocutes the worm, who promptly lifts its claw very deliberately over the bird and crushes him. It'd probably had enough of him and his tormenting of it. It probably let Robin kill it due to that pain. Poor thing. :(
I don't think the bird was evil. I think he was trying to prevent something even greater from happening. I think the Ivory gauge that he brings up is how much the planet has left. It looks like he's really trying to get something across with the way he points at the gauge and squawks, even looks like he goes through some notes trying to figure out HOW to say it, before he feels like he ain't got the time for this shit... There's definitely more going on here than what's on the surface, much like the whole damn game. Love this damn game. Instant classic.
This bird is literally just doing his job, look at the inside of the Starworm, notes, paperwork, COFFEE. There's no way to know how important his job could have been to others elsewhere in the universe, but he failed. I wanna know more about the race of Bird People. It looked like he really didn't even wanna be there, but it was his job. Maybe I'm full of shit, who knows.
@@CLSharpman5000 Could be. To me however it seemed like his space ship (the Starworm) runs on Ivory and needs an insane amount of it. The bird was slowly killing off all natural life on the planet to fuel his ship (though maybe that wouldnt have happened if humans hadn't extracted so much Ivory as well), this seems clear to me given the way everyything comes back to life once the ship blows up. I doubt he wasn't aware of the consequences of drying up the planet of all its Ivory.
@@CidGuerreiro1234 No; the planet comes back to life because she jams one of the Isi seeds into the Starworm, which disperses it throughout the planet. The bird was just there to refuel his ship, and the amount he was taking would probably have very little effect on the planet. It's mostly the society of the planet that has drained the resources, namely the One Concern.
@@IronyNinja The problem is an earlier boss calls for something, we see that when you kill it and a red light goes into the sky, implying the bird was CALLED here and points to an Ivory gauge while his ship has an PLANETS WORTH of Ivory in it due to the trees appearing planet wide. This means he was there to refill the planet's ivory. As for the reason, we have no indication... or his ship carries several planets worth typically and he was running low and coincidentally the red light did nothing but that ignores the fact that it is shown characters knew something would come if that thing signaled for it and indeed did.
im not trying to steal this comment from Zakuzelo 2 years ago, i just post this so in the future i see this comment about Iconoclast lore on my history comments and smile "All this talk about how the bird is this malicious force manipulating the world for his own ends...no. No, no, no. Look at his outfit, look at his cockpit, look at his mannerisms. He's a repairman. You killed an Omega Controller, it sent a distress signal into space, someone's "check engine" light went on and in comes this everyday, nine-to-five maintenance man to fix it. Look at the notes he pulls out and tosses away, that's him flipping through his work orders. "Fucking hell, what's the regulation for sentients on the rig? Oh whatever, I'll just kill it, they broke the damn thing anyway." That's it. There's no grand manipulation or deception here, the Starworm religion was entirely ignorant humans worshiping an interstellar handyman." also Rad Dykal: "LOCAL WOMAN KILLS GOD."
as of writing this i just finished the game for the second time. words cannot describe how amazing this game is, possibly the best metroidvania ive played in my whole entire life
Did anyone else notice Robin's "dream sequence" after being hit by the beam? 1st one seem to kinda represent her brother wielding his broken sword with two strange figurines in the background which resembles his wife and daughter. 2nd one with the tower and all of it's people represented by the massive grave surrounding the tower as many were killed by the Mother's Corners, not sure who the "boss" is tho. 3rd one is the old broken moon in the background with mother (or perhaps Royal?) with the tri signature. 4th one reminds me of Black herself fighting with what little strength she has left. Notice how Robin shines her "sunflower" over all the previous ones except for Black whom Robin actually kills using her weapon. Also this might explain Royal's sudden realization and depression kicking in when he was hit by the beam on the moon in his final hour. Just an observation and speculation from me.
I'm thinking those nightmare represent Robin Guilt since you can "pacify" them when you do the branching dialogue. But you re right : it's Elro/Mina/Royal/Black.
yes if you make peace with your father and not get angry at him robin will not get away from him and instead just go to him. no stomp in anger when she wakes up
9:50 It's interesting, when I played my first reaction to this dream was "it's a trap" and I left. Then I learned it wasn't the case, hugging dad just made her wake up without the angry reaction you see and the fight resumes. I feel like the author didn't want to punish the players for whatever they did at this point, they wanted them to decide if this was a scene of Robin finding the strength to keep going after hugging her dad again, even if in a dream... or if it was a last "fuck you" to this thing for trying to use the memory of a loved one to brainwash you.
Other details: Phase 1 of the hallucination fight is clearly Elro with his family in the background, kudos to that other guy for pointing that out. But phase 2 isn't a graveyard, it's a callback to the markings the Isi put on the ancestral vessel whenever they get married. Not sure what the tower is there for. The boss there also takes the form of their religious icon- you can see both of these at 26:25. Phase 3, the Tri is obvious, but the lower half is another variation of the Isi icon, so the boss represents a fusion of both religions
Their god, the space wyrm, was a damn space ship, with a bird in it, the planet was a mining planet and the space bird was coming to refuel his organic ship... ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) WTF! I mean, it was a fun and cool game, but man that was a fever dream of an ending.
Funny you say that, Sandberg was heavily influenced by Metroid Fusion. /watch?v=MGIWGjyfXF4 Whether or not the bird was inspired by the Chozo is up in the air until Sandberg himself speaks up.
Thats my favorite thing about the ending. It just shows how pointless all the death and suffering caused by their religion was. Their god ended up just being the dumbest thing
Wow! Such an intriguing & compelling story. I just beat it on Nintendo Switch. An extremely difficult game but that story really gave me the drive to beat it. I'm personally not good at these type of games even though I enjoy them. I had to use relaxed mode in order to beat some of those bosses. But if it wasn't for such an compelling story I would've quit. But I really enjoyed it and am glad I pushed through to the end.
I love this boss and it's implications for the plot- Birdman isn't random. It's confusing because the animation on the hoses attached to the Starworm suggests that he's sucking ivory out of the planet, but I think he's actually pumping it out and refueling the planet. Maybe not, but it's the only way his indignation over the low ivory meter makes any sense to me. The worm is clearly carrying more ivory than the planet has in reserve. He's a mechanic trying to fix the planet. Human culture is just a cargo cult based on birdman tech- they worship the Starworm for bringing ivory to the planet in the distant past. The wrench is a holy icon in this society because they got it from these guys. Birdmen created the planet spines and the eye controllers. The Starworm is actually a natural spacefaring creature, they're just using the eyes to control them. What's confusing are the "ancestral vessel" ships- since they're mechanical and not biological, one might think it's separate human technology that brought them to the planet in the first place, but since all other technology on this planet is based on birdman tech, it only makes sense that the ships would be too. Ergo, since the ships are said to be the origin of humanity AND the Isi seeds that produce the round plants that Royal can't create, we can deduce that these were birdman terraforming ships carrying flora and fauna. If they brought life to the planet, they wouldn't destroy it by draining what little ivory is left. Since they have biological and mechanical means of space travel, I think the Starworm is solely for transporting ivory.
It seems to me that fighting the starworm was a big misunderstanding. It looked to me like the bird mechanic was taking the starworm vehicle to the planet to refuel it on ivory. That's why they were showing her the ivory gauge and frantically pointing at it and yelling; they were trying to tell Robin that they're trying to refuel it so it doesn't fall apart. So, a few things to gather from this interpretation. 1) The world was artificially made by whatever people that bird mechanic belonged to. 2) The entire sequence of events about the end of the world was all for naught, as it would have resolved itself anyway. It was simply that whatever people set this world up were late with refueling it this time around (possibly because the Ivory got used faster then expected from all the Ivory technology the humans were using?) However, I do think that Robin doing what she did was probably a good thing in the end. The entire world was probably some kind of experiment on alternate forms of life, or something to that effect. And so by Robin doing what she did, I think a couple things have happened. 1) The new plants from those seeds will provide a natural foundation for the planet so it doesn't fall apart again, along with providing a natural source of energy for the bottom of the foot chain that isn't reliant on the finite source of ivory. And 2) this new foundation gives humanity a foothold to evolve and get off the planet, and eventually escape from the manipulation and oppression of the bird people and their unethical experiments.
Well I couldn't beat those blue eyeballs possessing those spine controllers even on standard difficulty so I'm here watching the ending on youtube like a real man would.
It also changes phase 2 of the boss fight with the Bird....when he summons the spinning rocks they'll be white instead of black and need to be destroyed with a charged stun gun shot instead of the bomb shot.
I think Agent black was the true final boss, seeing how much she influenced the events of the game and robin's Journey. Everything after that, the space trip and the alien bird mechanic, was just a sort of interactable epilogue.
6:34 he didnt attack me in my playthrough. edit: litterly the only one that attacked me was the first hallucination, the other only one that provided a threat if i stood still was the last one cuz he still moved so he wouldive did contact damage.
What dialogue choices you pick affect the 1st and 2nd hallucinations In one save, sword will never attack me, but can still do contact damage. The only one who won’t be affected is the 3rd hallucination, because it represents royal and well..yknow…
When you play vs fitzroy on the first time u see him puting a girls face..that's how he remember her love..then you see a horrible face like skull...that's how she goes after he wanted her to be inmortal..deformed like she tolds you on the "story"..then you need to destroy his brain to make him forget about that and let them die.
How come the internet didn't catch on fucking fire with a lesbian kiss at the end of a game? Not that I mind, I actually think the developer did a great job with Mina and Samba, but it's just the kind of thing that make people lose their collective shit, whether they're in favour or against it.
Seeing this fucking fighting-game-design-ass bird jump out of the cockpit in the last five minutes of the game gave me the feeling that there was a way cooler plot hidden in the game that we didn't get. Like, what is this birdman's objective? Was he here to drain the planet or was he actually FIXING it? Did we just smoke this dude for no reason when he was just doing his job to our own BENEFIT? I wish there was more about THIS guy in the game. Until the final boss, the One Concern's spiel about the Starworm being a god seemed plausible, and then this dude jumped out of it with paperwork and coffee in the cockpit! Iwant MORE of this guy.
robbing planet resources thats all...his rig need entire planet supply to move around systems...its takes a lot of energy to travel systems to systems...to him...planets are like pit stop
Yep, if you have a stronger affinity with the side characters (ie. tell them things they expect to hear), the nightmares at the end are much less aggressive.
No, she just stuck what was left of Mina'a Seeds in it, to react with the Ivory in it's body and destroy it, she has the same animation during the earlier boss fight with Agent Black whilst sticking Seeds in her. It makes more sense if you've played the whole game or watched a full playthrough.
the ending really mock you in the face that you really didn't save anyone even yourself everything is in despair and the thing that broke it more the final scene being the place you meet royal in the friend who despite all this journey along him you failed to save him
What existential crisis? LOL they have a good life. read what they talk when you destroy the "god"..oh well..the other ending before the game finished..was when you go to the moon..when you let royal stay and killed on the moon the game just shows how the worlds stay like you see..in war etc..but the pirate girl is nowhere because she "runs" from her problem again..the ending was not much diferent. You get to the earth..and cry because no one can do anything to stay alive when god comes to earth..or starworm. .even if you want to change the final on the second run if you get the double jump with royal on your shoulders u can get in the "escape pod" but the game glitches and freezes with a message "i don't code that" and the name of the creator goes there lol. So you need to return to the last save point..and its all..then the game finished and you have 2 boss battles and a good ending.
could someone please let me no what happens if the girl walked to her dad, who isnt actually her dad, does something bad happen or is it not an option to go into his arms?
this boss was pretty disapointing in dificult level it just take me one try in harder mode, the spinthing rush (where you kills those spin dudes) was harder, come on
@@rr53213rr I wouldn't be so angry, if this mentality goes to both sides. I remember scene where Mina wants go to bloodbath, because of wrecked spaceship which they found in concern base. So it means pirates technically are cultists, this fact makes Mila complete hypocrite.
Now THAT'S how you push an agenda folks! You keep it relevant and don't do the in your face shit. Robin woke up one day and did what a good capitalist does, develops a skill, uses the skill, and destroys all those who try to kill her for doing it. Authoritarians need not enter here. Robin is one badass character in my book. Never once bitching about being a woman, never once letting people get in the way of what she wants to do, never once bitching that she doesn't have the opportunity instead choosing to make that opportunity for herself, and she saves the world for doing it. This game is so anti Marxist without being overtly anti Marxist it hurts. Fucking awesome.
Its like life its strange, its was such a good history and interaction with the character backstories. that the player creates a sync with the game, its just not the same felling when you play with again...
I did not dive into this game and expecting such a grim-dark tale. It was all sunshine and rainbows that slowly faded the deeper you went, which kept you hooked from the beginning til the end.
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It could be the year 2050 and still everyone would be debating about the alien bird. Robin, the bird named mechanic, fights a bird who is a mechanic in the end. Such a great game with a deep story by Konjak.
All this talk about how the bird is this malicious force manipulating the world for his own ends...no. No, no, no.
Look at his outfit, look at his cockpit, look at his mannerisms. He's a repairman. You killed an Omega Controller, it sent a distress signal into space, someone's "check engine" light went on and in comes this everyday, nine-to-five maintenance man to fix it. Look at the notes he pulls out and tosses away, that's him flipping through his work orders. "Fucking hell, what's the regulation for sentients on the rig? Oh whatever, I'll just kill it, they broke the damn thing anyway."
That's it. There's no grand manipulation or deception here, the Starworm religion was entirely ignorant humans worshiping an interstellar handyman.
Zakuzelo your description gave me another reason to play the game. Thank you
Is interesting that your color is the opposite with the color of the commenter Freaddy, the person who probably started the theories of alien birds manipulating humanity. I find both your theory and the theory of Freddy good.
thats the vibe I was getting, then he points to the ivory levels like "look what you fuckin did", not to mention he uses a wrench, which I took to mean he was an engineer
I do believe it's as simple as this and I like that this story went that way. No convoluted ending with a final boss that had grand master plans and grandiose beliefs. It was just a being in control of another for their own needs, and mankind made a mountain out of a molehill of the situation. We tend to do that.
I love how the final boss is just a workman. An engineer for sure, but a frustrated one who has paperwork to do.
LOCAL WOMAN KILLS GOD.
Pog
God is just a space trucker
Film at 11
I find it pretty fitting that 'Him', the final boss was nothing more than an alien bird. Just like the very religion that serves him, he is a complete phony. He is no great being with any good intentions, he is a simple creature that deceived everyone, including the head of the One Concern and the great deceiver Mother herself, for his selfish needs. He is indeed powerful. He has the technology to modify an entire planet to serve his goal. However like the agents and Mother, he is no divine being who is invincible. He is a mechanic who uses his skill for himself, even if it tortures countless people and ultimately destroy the world. His demise is brought by his polar opposite, Robin the young, kind mechanic who simply wanted to help people, but wasn't permitted to, but did so anyway.
I don't believe that the alien bird was really selfish, I'm pretty sure he doesn't act alone and comes from one species who maintains artifical planets. As such he isn't really interested in the religion, it was something that the humas around him have created, just because they saw how he gives them ivory. As you can see on the final battle he was about to refill the planet and repair the machine (you can see another frame at the entrance of the crater.)
He even tried to tell you what he was doing.
There is probably some higher purpose by some higher developed race, but this guy is no mastermind just some mechanic who does his routine work and we've interrupted him.
Ageleszly I haven't really thought of it that way. I guess I might have been fixated on seeing the finale as an ultimate good vs evil. Perhaps he isn't evil, and simply misunderstood because of the chaos and madness of the world. However, I still want to ask, if he really was here just to do his job, I kinda want to know why he, and his race would refuel the planet with Ivory in the first place. Having the technology is one thing, but having resources is another matter. In a practical view point, handing out resources (precious or otherwise) to an underdeveloped race seems a bit wasteful, and potentially even dangerous, unless his race simply wanted to see how people would use the ivory and nothing more. Nevertheless I really appreciate your feedback and insight.
Nightmare first boss: Your brother in fury...in the back you can see her wife and her child...Killed..her home in ruins and his heart on a pendulum like he is near to get berserk.
Nightmare second boss: The people who the "mother" doctrine killed. Childrens, youngs..adult..
Nightmare third boss: You on the moon, u can't save your friend..you are lamenting it.
Nightare Fourth and last: I think its flitz..but no..it was black because u kill her..she was firing herself and wanted to live.
I was thinking that the planet was originally created to generate ivory, and humans came to the planet some time after the fact. All of the plants look fake, and only the ones that the isi have look like ones we’d have. Also, remember their “ancestral vessel”? I think that was how humans came to live on that planet, and the records tell of how that worm destroyed their old planet since the concern also had one of those vessels and knew of the creature’s existence.
He is Kluex!!! hahaha!!
I did a bit more research on the final boss and well, birds to make some more sense of him. The conclusion that I came to, was that the final boss was no ordinary bird. It is... a BLUE JAY. *dun dun dun*
Yes, captain obvious, we can see it is a blue alien bird. Also, I first speculated him being a blue jay simply because of his color, and a google image of a blue jay has the same short black beak. However the plot thickens. Blue jays despite their soothing color, are quite cunning, calculative, and ferocious birds. They have the ability to mimic the cries of much larger predators such as falcons and eagles. They act like much greater beings just like the final boss of Iconoclasts who poses himself as this almighty god. However blue jays do not mimic cries in the open, they do it while hidden. The reason for this is that they do not have fast wings, so they are quite easy prey for larger birds that it imitates. This makes an interesting relationship with other small birds. Although blue jays usually feast on nuts and fruit, they sometimes hunt and kill smaller birds and even devour their eggs, but at the same time, smaller birds are somewhat protected under the blue jay's control, giving ferocious cries and chasing larger predators away. I'm not saying that Iconoclasts 2 is confirmed and we will have a space war against other bird aliens, but this habitat parallels the world of Iconoclasts where people are under this rule where they maintain order, but also suffer under a being that acts as a much greater being. I don't think it is coincidence that the main character's name is Robin. Not only do they have conflicting color schemes, the BLUE jay and the RED robin, but blue jays are also known to use the nest of other birds to hatch their eggs, one of them, and the most common, being the nest of a robin. The death of the final boss is also poetic, because he is killed by the very thing he had imitated. Just like the blue jay being hunted by the falcon it poses to be, the final boss of Iconoclasts dies, by the hand of God that he posed to be.
Dude's got a parrot's beak, though, but it would be super cool if he really was intended to be a blue jay.
Still, in the first boss battle (the big controller that did the penance on that house in the beggining), when he jumps, you can see that under the planet spines, there are feathers, so it's more probable that the birds were an advanced civilization from long ago.
can you repeat that, its kinda hard to hear in this deep thing
I was wondering if there was some form of symbolism with the final boss and the main protagonist's name...
Thanks for your interpretation of the final boss & ending. That's a really interesting analysis you came up with. It really brings some closure to the ending. This story in this game was so intriguing. Infact it's what kept me playing. I'm not really good at these type of games even though I enjoy them. I had to beat many of the end bosses on relaxed mode where you pretty much take no damage. IDK how any of you beat it without rallied mode. My gosh is that difficult. But I was so intrigued by this games plot & story with each of the different cultures & religions throwing their fate at some imaginary divine being that I had to just see it play out. And I was really happy with the ay it ended. The divine "He" was no more but a superior creature no different from anyone else. Go Team Red Robin!
So I just realized something.
While not a god, I'm convinced the Starworm is a member of a space-faring alien race.
It looks fleshy, has telepathic powers(likely useful for communication in the soundless vacuum of space), and when its head opens for the bird to get out, it looks more like skin being peeled back.
It was probably captured and converted, likely using the blue eyes to control it.
Notice how when the bird hits the button on the remote after the fight, it electrocutes the worm, who promptly lifts its claw very deliberately over the bird and crushes him.
It'd probably had enough of him and his tormenting of it.
It probably let Robin kill it due to that pain. Poor thing. :(
I don't think the bird was evil. I think he was trying to prevent something even greater from happening. I think the Ivory gauge that he brings up is how much the planet has left. It looks like he's really trying to get something across with the way he points at the gauge and squawks, even looks like he goes through some notes trying to figure out HOW to say it, before he feels like he ain't got the time for this shit... There's definitely more going on here than what's on the surface, much like the whole damn game.
Love this damn game. Instant classic.
This bird is literally just doing his job, look at the inside of the Starworm, notes, paperwork, COFFEE. There's no way to know how important his job could have been to others elsewhere in the universe, but he failed. I wanna know more about the race of Bird People.
It looked like he really didn't even wanna be there, but it was his job.
Maybe I'm full of shit, who knows.
@@CLSharpman5000 Could be. To me however it seemed like his space ship (the Starworm) runs on Ivory and needs an insane amount of it. The bird was slowly killing off all natural life on the planet to fuel his ship (though maybe that wouldnt have happened if humans hadn't extracted so much Ivory as well), this seems clear to me given the way everyything comes back to life once the ship blows up. I doubt he wasn't aware of the consequences of drying up the planet of all its Ivory.
@@CidGuerreiro1234 No; the planet comes back to life because she jams one of the Isi seeds into the Starworm, which disperses it throughout the planet. The bird was just there to refuel his ship, and the amount he was taking would probably have very little effect on the planet. It's mostly the society of the planet that has drained the resources, namely the One Concern.
@@IronyNinja The problem is an earlier boss calls for something, we see that when you kill it and a red light goes into the sky, implying the bird was CALLED here and points to an Ivory gauge while his ship has an PLANETS WORTH of Ivory in it due to the trees appearing planet wide. This means he was there to refill the planet's ivory. As for the reason, we have no indication... or his ship carries several planets worth typically and he was running low and coincidentally the red light did nothing but that ignores the fact that it is shown characters knew something would come if that thing signaled for it and indeed did.
im not trying to steal this comment from Zakuzelo 2 years ago, i just post this so in the future i see this comment about Iconoclast lore on my history comments and smile
"All this talk about how the bird is this malicious force manipulating the world for his own ends...no. No, no, no.
Look at his outfit, look at his cockpit, look at his mannerisms. He's a repairman. You killed an Omega Controller, it sent a distress signal into space, someone's "check engine" light went on and in comes this everyday, nine-to-five maintenance man to fix it. Look at the notes he pulls out and tosses away, that's him flipping through his work orders. "Fucking hell, what's the regulation for sentients on the rig? Oh whatever, I'll just kill it, they broke the damn thing anyway."
That's it. There's no grand manipulation or deception here, the Starworm religion was entirely ignorant humans worshiping an interstellar handyman."
also Rad Dykal:
"LOCAL WOMAN KILLS GOD."
as of writing this i just finished the game for the second time.
words cannot describe how amazing this game is, possibly the best metroidvania ive played in my whole entire life
Did anyone else notice Robin's "dream sequence" after being hit by the beam?
1st one seem to kinda represent her brother wielding his broken sword with two strange figurines in the background which resembles his wife and daughter.
2nd one with the tower and all of it's people represented by the massive grave surrounding the tower as many were killed by the Mother's Corners, not sure who the "boss" is tho.
3rd one is the old broken moon in the background with mother (or perhaps Royal?) with the tri signature.
4th one reminds me of Black herself fighting with what little strength she has left. Notice how Robin shines her "sunflower" over all the previous ones except for Black whom Robin actually kills using her weapon.
Also this might explain Royal's sudden realization and depression kicking in when he was hit by the beam on the moon in his final hour.
Just an observation and speculation from me.
I'm thinking those nightmare represent Robin Guilt since you can "pacify" them when you do the branching dialogue.
But you re right : it's Elro/Mina/Royal/Black.
RaymontP branching dialogue? I noticed in my play through that the second and third ones weren’t trying to kill me
LucklessCope it tries to destroy the mind by targeting dark memories, doubts, and emotions.
yes if you make peace with your father and not get angry at him robin will not get away from him and instead just go to him. no stomp in anger when she wakes up
ok, tell me I'm not the only one who feels like this was the most elaborate episode of animaniacs ever? (Chicken Boo)
9:50 It's interesting, when I played my first reaction to this dream was "it's a trap" and I left. Then I learned it wasn't the case, hugging dad just made her wake up without the angry reaction you see and the fight resumes. I feel like the author didn't want to punish the players for whatever they did at this point, they wanted them to decide if this was a scene of Robin finding the strength to keep going after hugging her dad again, even if in a dream... or if it was a last "fuck you" to this thing for trying to use the memory of a loved one to brainwash you.
Other details: Phase 1 of the hallucination fight is clearly Elro with his family in the background, kudos to that other guy for pointing that out. But phase 2 isn't a graveyard, it's a callback to the markings the Isi put on the ancestral vessel whenever they get married. Not sure what the tower is there for. The boss there also takes the form of their religious icon- you can see both of these at 26:25. Phase 3, the Tri is obvious, but the lower half is another variation of the Isi icon, so the boss represents a fusion of both religions
Their god, the space wyrm, was a damn space ship, with a bird in it, the planet was a mining planet and the space bird was coming to refuel his organic ship... ლ(ಠ益ಠლ) WTF! I mean, it was a fun and cool game, but man that was a fever dream of an ending.
The bird honestly reminded me of a Chozo from Metroid
Funny you say that, Sandberg was heavily influenced by Metroid Fusion. /watch?v=MGIWGjyfXF4 Whether or not the bird was inspired by the Chozo is up in the air until Sandberg himself speaks up.
As if the literal fever dream induced by the mindfuck beam earlier wasn't enough!
Thats my favorite thing about the ending. It just shows how pointless all the death and suffering caused by their religion was. Their god ended up just being the dumbest thing
Wow! Such an intriguing & compelling story. I just beat it on Nintendo Switch. An extremely difficult game but that story really gave me the drive to beat it. I'm personally not good at these type of games even though I enjoy them. I had to use relaxed mode in order to beat some of those bosses. But if it wasn't for such an compelling story I would've quit. But I really enjoyed it and am glad I pushed through to the end.
Do note that with that first boss, you see the feathers under the "spines".
Only noticed it right after beating the game and going to boss rush. Kino foreshadowing.
This was an extremely silent hill 2 plot twist and i loved it
Wonder if the joke was he looked sort of like a Chozo, so the "God" was just a Mechanic doing his job.
You know what, I'm okay with the ending
I love this boss and it's implications for the plot- Birdman isn't random. It's confusing because the animation on the hoses attached to the Starworm suggests that he's sucking ivory out of the planet, but I think he's actually pumping it out and refueling the planet. Maybe not, but it's the only way his indignation over the low ivory meter makes any sense to me. The worm is clearly carrying more ivory than the planet has in reserve. He's a mechanic trying to fix the planet. Human culture is just a cargo cult based on birdman tech- they worship the Starworm for bringing ivory to the planet in the distant past. The wrench is a holy icon in this society because they got it from these guys. Birdmen created the planet spines and the eye controllers. The Starworm is actually a natural spacefaring creature, they're just using the eyes to control them. What's confusing are the "ancestral vessel" ships- since they're mechanical and not biological, one might think it's separate human technology that brought them to the planet in the first place, but since all other technology on this planet is based on birdman tech, it only makes sense that the ships would be too. Ergo, since the ships are said to be the origin of humanity AND the Isi seeds that produce the round plants that Royal can't create, we can deduce that these were birdman terraforming ships carrying flora and fauna. If they brought life to the planet, they wouldn't destroy it by draining what little ivory is left. Since they have biological and mechanical means of space travel, I think the Starworm is solely for transporting ivory.
I think the ancestral vessels are starworms, and that's how the one concern got the same depression Ray that the Final boss had.
It seems to me that fighting the starworm was a big misunderstanding. It looked to me like the bird mechanic was taking the starworm vehicle to the planet to refuel it on ivory. That's why they were showing her the ivory gauge and frantically pointing at it and yelling; they were trying to tell Robin that they're trying to refuel it so it doesn't fall apart.
So, a few things to gather from this interpretation. 1) The world was artificially made by whatever people that bird mechanic belonged to. 2) The entire sequence of events about the end of the world was all for naught, as it would have resolved itself anyway. It was simply that whatever people set this world up were late with refueling it this time around (possibly because the Ivory got used faster then expected from all the Ivory technology the humans were using?)
However, I do think that Robin doing what she did was probably a good thing in the end. The entire world was probably some kind of experiment on alternate forms of life, or something to that effect. And so by Robin doing what she did, I think a couple things have happened. 1) The new plants from those seeds will provide a natural foundation for the planet so it doesn't fall apart again, along with providing a natural source of energy for the bottom of the foot chain that isn't reliant on the finite source of ivory. And 2) this new foundation gives humanity a foothold to evolve and get off the planet, and eventually escape from the manipulation and oppression of the bird people and their unethical experiments.
ThatEntityPerson great analysis!
Ooor the birdman just used up all of it's Ivory while it was on casual work. It ended up being stranded around the planet.
What happend to Robin's father then?
Impossible that he was just killed by an accident.
Elro saying "my father was a coward for what he did" seems to imply he committed suicide, possibly out of guilt at working for the One Concern.
Robin > Blue Jay
But actually, the parallels are pretty neat. They've even got the wrench and red jacket!
11:56 you survived with a SLIVER of health!!!
"just a scratch"
Well I couldn't beat those blue eyeballs possessing those spine controllers even on standard difficulty so I'm here watching the ending on youtube like a real man would.
9:47 what happens if you walk into his arms?
Adam The Pie guy Robin wakes up without being angry
It also changes phase 2 of the boss fight with the Bird....when he summons the spinning rocks they'll be white instead of black and need to be destroyed with a charged stun gun shot instead of the bomb shot.
My man just wanted fuel and he got fucking murderd
19:18 OMAE WA MOU SHINDEIRU!
NANI!?
When the final boss is much easier then the previous bosses lel
In my opinion, Agent Black Battle was harder, she deserved to be final boss
@@armandvonriegan5758 agent black is my spirit animal
I think Agent black was the true final boss, seeing how much she influenced the events of the game and robin's Journey. Everything after that, the space trip and the alien bird mechanic, was just a sort of interactable epilogue.
6:34 he didnt attack me in my playthrough. edit: litterly the only one that attacked me was the first hallucination, the other only one that provided a threat if i stood still was the last one cuz he still moved so he wouldive did contact damage.
Dialogue choices affect how the first phase goes.
What dialogue choices you pick affect the 1st and 2nd hallucinations
In one save, sword will never attack me, but can still do contact damage. The only one who won’t be affected is the 3rd hallucination, because it represents royal and well..yknow…
This kind of game style as a survival game like terraria and I’m in heaven
These Chozos move around indeed
So in the end, did the "hero" team do good?. I did not play the game yet.
Is no one else finding all those monster Black spores falling all over the place... concerning? Hyuck hyuck hyuck!
The bird drop too much hearts, it makes it easier than some other battles in the game
When you play vs fitzroy on the first time u see him puting a girls face..that's how he remember her love..then you see a horrible face like skull...that's how she goes after he wanted her to be inmortal..deformed like she tolds you on the "story"..then you need to destroy his brain to make him forget about that and let them die.
How come the internet didn't catch on fucking fire with a lesbian kiss at the end of a game? Not that I mind, I actually think the developer did a great job with Mina and Samba, but it's just the kind of thing that make people lose their collective shit, whether they're in favour or against it.
Probably because Iconoclasts isn't very well known. A shame too, it's fantastic.
Seeing this fucking fighting-game-design-ass bird jump out of the cockpit in the last five minutes of the game gave me the feeling that there was a way cooler plot hidden in the game that we didn't get. Like, what is this birdman's objective? Was he here to drain the planet or was he actually FIXING it? Did we just smoke this dude for no reason when he was just doing his job to our own BENEFIT? I wish there was more about THIS guy in the game. Until the final boss, the One Concern's spiel about the Starworm being a god seemed plausible, and then this dude jumped out of it with paperwork and coffee in the cockpit! Iwant MORE of this guy.
robbing planet resources thats all...his rig need entire planet supply to move around systems...its takes a lot of energy to travel systems to systems...to him...planets are like pit stop
only the first "dream" boss attacked me in the ps vita version...
Same here (PS4). Apparently it depends on your answers to Mina and Royal.
Yep, if you have a stronger affinity with the side characters (ie. tell them things they expect to hear), the nightmares at the end are much less aggressive.
royal's shadow didnt attacked me tho
Is because u go 3 intimacy points on him..you take his answers well.
19:20 what she got as fists? Adamantium?
No, she just stuck what was left of Mina'a Seeds in it, to react with the Ivory in it's body and destroy it, she has the same animation during the earlier boss fight with Agent Black whilst sticking Seeds in her. It makes more sense if you've played the whole game or watched a full playthrough.
@@TromaDogg and I did but it has been sometime. and second that was joke
That was cool
Aww mina and samba X3
can you hug her dad? i walked out on him too but now i wonder if i missed out on something
*Gatling Gull on drugs*
the ending really mock you in the face that you really didn't save anyone even yourself everything is in despair and the thing that broke it more the final scene being the place you meet royal in the friend who despite all this journey along him you failed to save him
Nope...that "ending" was because the game wasnt finished.
so was there a another ending ?
smo ker its the one u see here..
but this ending is the despair(everyone have Existential crisis) i am talking about, was there a another sad ending in the unfinished game?
What existential crisis? LOL they have a good life. read what they talk when you destroy the "god"..oh well..the other ending before the game finished..was when you go to the moon..when you let royal stay and killed on the moon the game just shows how the worlds stay like you see..in war etc..but the pirate girl is nowhere because she "runs" from her problem again..the ending was not much diferent. You get to the earth..and cry because no one can do anything to stay alive when god comes to earth..or starworm. .even if you want to change the final on the second run if you get the double jump with royal on your shoulders u can get in the "escape pod" but the game glitches and freezes with a message "i don't code that" and the name of the creator goes there lol. So you need to return to the last save point..and its all..then the game finished and you have 2 boss battles and a good ending.
could someone please let me no what happens if the girl walked to her dad, who isnt actually her dad, does something bad happen or is it not an option to go into his arms?
im assuming it kills you.
sadisticmind49 robin wakes up without being angry
this boss was pretty disapointing in dificult level
it just take me one try in harder mode, the spinthing rush (where you kills those spin dudes) was harder, come on
How about you don't put the name in the title or thumbnail, huh?
Honestly the story irritates me beyond measure , near the end of the game...
Well this bird is disappointing. This twist looks like it came from the messenger (messenger is comedy , iconoclasts is more serious)
@@rr53213rr nah I just prefer the God thing. I have a similar problem with Mother characterization.
@@rr53213rr I wouldn't be so angry, if this mentality goes to both sides. I remember scene where Mina wants go to bloodbath, because of wrecked spaceship which they found in concern base. So it means pirates technically are cultists, this fact makes Mila complete hypocrite.
What exactly New Game + does in Iconoclasts?
Awww...
I hoped that there would be True Ending or something =/
Now THAT'S how you push an agenda folks! You keep it relevant and don't do the in your face shit. Robin woke up one day and did what a good capitalist does, develops a skill, uses the skill, and destroys all those who try to kill her for doing it. Authoritarians need not enter here. Robin is one badass character in my book. Never once bitching about being a woman, never once letting people get in the way of what she wants to do, never once bitching that she doesn't have the opportunity instead choosing to make that opportunity for herself, and she saves the world for doing it. This game is so anti Marxist without being overtly anti Marxist it hurts. Fucking awesome.
Finished the game today, too! Ending was not satisfying for me and to I refuse to try challenge mode, probably will be too hard.
Its like life its strange, its was such a good history and interaction with the character backstories. that the player creates a sync with the game, its just not the same felling when you play with again...
I did not dive into this game and expecting such a grim-dark tale. It was all sunshine and rainbows that slowly faded the deeper you went, which kept you hooked from the beginning til the end.
welcome to a "MOTHER" GAME...if your remember "mother" for SNES..and Nes..