Totally agree. So many people fantasize they are going to “John Wick” their way through the Purge. Absolutely the best way to survive a shtf situation is to avoid conflict as much as possible.
i john wicked for like 15 seconds and the homie said "foo that was the whole clip" and i was like 'its a magazine olmes" and then we protested for rodney king in korea town and lost the war
Exactly, and now I have a kitted out AR-10 with a bipod grip and suppressor on the way…. In 4-7 months lol. For survival, you’d want to be as far away as possible from the conflict, while still being effective and engaging.
South alabama here. Live on the river swamp. we been preparing for this our whole lives and didnt know it.. every 10 year old boy here , can hop on a jon boat with a 22 rifle. And some tackls and come back that evening with enough fish and small game to feed his family for a week. We are VERY. Close to our neighbors and in most cases arr like family.. after all we all grew up together.. we are all armed. Most of us reload. Our worst concern would be the mass encroachment of nearby cities like mobile coming our way.. they are grossly under equiped and inexperienced to deal and would most likley look to prey on people to survive.. it would be a grave miscalculation to bring a fight here.. they know it .. we know it.. so we dont really worry much about fighting... So in reality a shtf scenario for us would almost be a vacation.. we save our work leave all year for hunting season and fishing.. for me its easy .. 5.56 in a 16 inch barrel with my handloads. And my glock 17 , also with my handloads.. if i can smash water jugs at 600 then i can smash deer that far. But ive never had to take one passsd 300 here. With most being within 150 yards.. your biggest assets in this scenario is your teamates. Do you have any? If so how many? Are they assets or burdens.. your not gonna make it long without a team... No matter what caliber rifle you have
“ Swamp Fox, Swamp Fox, tail on your hat. No one knows where the Swamp Fox’s at. He’ll run away to fight again ! “ Grew up duck hunting the swamps of eastern N.C. and floating black water streams for squirrels and ducks. Swamp walkers will survive as they flourish in an environment totally foreign to city dwellers. 😉
Avoidance and cowardice is why we are even discussing this topic. If men would just read the constitution and forcefully remove the demonic installed leaders we wouldn't be discussing this.
I agree with you, alot of people are eager to get into a fight not knowing what its going to be like. My plan, disappear and survive. Avoid fights at all costs and simply enjoy the great out doors. Since this has gotten alot of comments, let me go ahead and say that i have a few rifles, 308, 556, and carry every single day. I know how to use all of them and have plenty of ammo as well. I am prepared for a fight, but i would choose NOT to fight if possible. Are people going to come looking for food? yes. And if i have spare rations, im going to help feed them.
@@thefreedomwarrior Nope, benefits of living in the country, if youre smart, you have land before you need to disappear. You may even have living structures on the land!
Im not advocating picking a fight, and i agree with the running and hiding will increase your survival rate. however, If SHTF like many of us expect it to then the last thing we need is every able bodied man capable of bearing arms to be hiding.
The great outdoors will be flooded with people. Saw this during the pandemic lockdowns. Much more activity in the great outdoors no matter where I went. Also it’s quite probable The fighting will erupt everywhere. Stop pretending shtf is going to be about hitting the woods and hiding out, hunting and farming in your little areas. I highly doubt it’s going to be like that. Do some comparisons of what it looks like when societies collapse. You are correct people don’t know what it will look like that is why we still have people saying I’m gonna hit them woods and enjoy my time during shtf! Lmao ok bud. People will hunt you down. There will be chaos. It’s not going to go the way you have been planning for. Murdered for your stockpile of rations? Taken prisoner by large groups vying for power in the vacuum left behind? When the panic in the cities bubbles over they are going to run for the hills. Good luck hiding for very long. Also good luck hunting when the combat causes wildlife to scatter. Or when everyone else with the same idea mows everything down for the hell of it. Hundreds/thousands taking refuge from the chaotic cities will come running bringing mass panic, disease, murder. It’s a fantasy to think the way you are. You won’t be doing much enjoying of the great outdoors irl. And that’s just if it collapsed imagine how much worse if it was an invasion complete with air raids or what about if nukes were used? Start taking the situation a little more seriously.
@@codycasner3732the weight difference is significant between the two, and anyone who has hunted with an ar10 vs a 300blk ar15 will let you know how much heavier it is especially when in bush
I have a 20" AR 223 Wylde, with a hunting scope, if bugging out becomes necessary, that will be the go to. If staying put is the better option (hopefully), I run an M1A .308, it's what I hunt mule deer with every year anyway.
@@spencermichaelson1882 I wanted to optimize long distance accuracy and velocity. Where I am, long distance open desert is what I will deal with most often.
@@masteranger4499I’d imagine the 308 would be far more better suited. I live in coastal forests with serious mountains to the north. Looking into a 308
I’ve recently spoke with family and specific friends. We played out a basic plan and agreed on five types of ammo .308 5.56 9mm. 22lr and 12 gauge With the intent to shelter in place and back up jump spots. Having everyone agree to specific ammo being the key so we can combine and share if needed. For the video I agree completely the 5.56 is great but it’s a tool with specific uses I wanted my peeps. To go with 300blk. But I was over ruled mainly because everyone else already was set up with 5.56 Stay safe out there and thanks for the content
@@MotorBoating1413 That sounds like a very health and pragmatic approach! I applaud you and your team for having the hard talks that ultimately benefit everyone.
Another consideration is cost. Getting into a semi auto .308 is a much more expensive proposition. There are many 18" barreled ARs available, and with heavy rounds they can do well hunting deer sized game. You're also going to be able to train a lot more with 5.56 for your money than .308. I have a 6.5 Creedmoor bolt action for hunting, as semi automatic fire isn't a priority for me hunting and bolt guns can be had for much more affordable prices.
@@curtism-w6b So can a 5.56. Just because, the 5.56 is less powerful than the .308 doesn't mean it's underpowered. Consider this, a typical (I know there are variables) 5.56/.223 bullet has more energy at 500m than a .22 mag/9mm/.45 has at the muzzle, generally speaking.
I am also a USMC vet, and I completely agree with your thoughts. One of my AR's is equipped with an 18" barrel (I wanted a 20"), and it's a lot cheaper to stack 5.56 rather than 7.62.
All very good points. I’m 70 so I will more likely be sheltering in place. I have my .308 Ruger American for food (which is near by), AR for crowd control, shotties and pistolas for close encounters.
For a SHTF type of situation the simplest rule is availability, both ammo and parts. If you live in an area where a lot of people are dealing with varmints, you will probably easily find .223/5.56. If you're in an area where deer and boar hunting is the thing, you're probably going to have better luck with 308/7.62. Ideally, if I didnt have the collection I have presently I would want a 5.56 AR, and something like a remington 700 for hunting given the commonality of parts for both. AR-10s are still not incredibly common, so getting replacement parts is a concern where as almost everyone I know around my parts has some form of 700, and maybe an ar15 for fun.
Ar-10's are becoming very popular in fact. Also all lower parts are interchangeable with an AR 15 lower minus recoil spring and buffer. Also if you own either you should have spare parts kits and a few items that will wear already on hand.
Everyone needs to hear the last 5 mins of this video. More ppl are focused on building a kit as if they are gonna be kicking doors down in Fallujah. Than being a survivor in the USA.
Yeah 2 tours in the GWOT. And I see the Posers with their 10.3-12.5 pistols acting like their gonna be kicking down names and taking doors. 🙄 But because Ninja SWAT Super Seal Chip Chazsputnuts on the YooToob's ran a 10.3 in Fallujah...🤷♂️ And you try to explain that a 10.3-12.5 is designed to be a suppressor host exclusively and that if you light your 10.3 off in the house with that Dragon flamer XL 2000 muzzle device you are more than likely going to be deaf and blind. Or that when entry teams make entry they have security and overwatch. So when they are out in the open they really don't have to depend on terminal ballistics. And they compound it by looking at you as if they are already deaf and blind. Because they have no clue on tactics. Or real world implications. But as with everything in the first world. People have no frame of reference. And they mimic what they see. Or what they are told.
With the 6.5cm take into account barrel erosion. 308 is more forgiving here with barrel erosion and wear. Also 308 comes in 110gr varment rounds to 180gr loads. Flexibility and adaptibility. 556 can go up to 77gr.
The best caliber is the caliber you have on-hand, loaded in multiple mags, and ready to go in a zeroed and well-maintained firearm. The rest is academic.
Exactly. Theoretical. I'm reading all these comments about the what if's. What if's have rarely been actual. Great statement. It's a reason that it has been repeated over and over, again and again. Use what you have and are extremely competent with.
@@bench175 Asking the question, “What caliber *should* you have” implies that there is a caliber one shouldn’t have on-hand (or is less desirable). This, furthermore, implies that if one has the less-than-ideal caliber firearm/ammo combo - that one one must now go out and purchase a firearm and the extremely over-priced Covid-time ammunition to feed it. Why even make anyone feel insecure with what they may have? The topic is a dead horse, anyway. Be proficient with what you have.
The point of the question is to get people to think about buying their kit. But seriously places like country tx, a 556 really really won't be enough even to shelter in place if someone with say a deer rifle is shooting at you from the foliage at the edge of your fields. If all you had was your 556 and pcc you were plinking at cans on the weekends, this thought experiment might have you consider getting a deer rifle that might be pressed into action if someone's taking shots at your family from the edge of your property
I run 556 because of commonality of parts and ammunition in the US makes it easier for procurement. But I do like 6.5 grendel a lot for a light weight hard hitting package. Ammo is harder to come by tho and I got into it late, so stockpile is not attainable right now.
Ok 7.62 weighs more, but in my experience you need LESS ammo. I served in Battle of Fallujah and witnessed first hand just how weak 5.56 is compared to 7.62. There were instances where we needed to shoot hajis several times to bring them down. A 7.62 round will down down the enemy with one shot every single time. Accuracy by volume is great when you’re manning a machine gun, but for a rifleman a more lethal round is better than carrying more less lethal rounds. Just my opinion
Thanks for that input! I'm about to buy a rifle and was struggling with that issue. You convinced me. It's the 7.62/308 for me. I like having the options available.
You can also use 22lr in a AR 15 using conversion bolts and mags (CMMG)... So you have both a small game (22lr), larger game (223/5.56) and defensive gun all in one rifle
@@sandwichartist5053 You completely missed the point the idea is you can carry the conversion bolt with one or two mags in your pocket and quickly convert your rifle to be used for small game hunting. And its definitely cheaper than a new 10/22
Good points to consider, Tim. I think one of the most important things you mentioned was, "bugging-in." I'm of the opinion, that unless you really need to evacuate, say due to a natural disaster, staying put makes a lot of sense. After all, that's where all your resources are. Good neighbors are a plus.
I was going to post something similar. Outside of a natural disaster, bugging out rarely makes sense... especially in urban/suburban areas. You're not the only person who's going to be bugging out, and unless you happen to have a full tank of gas, you're probably going to run out of fuel on a congested arterial trying to escape the city with 500,000 of your closest friends. Better to make friends with the neighbors and stockpile, and just hunker down. You should hopefully have plenty of resources that way, know the terrain, and you can both help and have help.
This depends on many factors. I chose a non-traditional battle rifle, a VEPR .308 with a 16" barrel. I bought it when they were still imported and affordable. I equipped it with a quality 4-12 scope and offset red dot, and a good flash hider. The result is a handy rifle that can do it all. It can be a DMR, it can be a battle rifle, and it can be a hunting rifle for large game, all at the same time. After changing the furniture, the recoil is straight line and very reasonable. This is the rifle I would choose for SHTF, as there's not much it can't do (other than hunt squirrel). I love my AR's, but the hard-hitting "reach out and touch something" capability of .308 is impossible to ignore.
I agree with the vote for .308. 5.56 is for plinking and indoors. I have block walls around my property as well as living on a grade where my neighbors are above or below my house. Even so, I stick with 77 gr Hornady Black for in the house. If things are so screwed up that I have to use my rifle outside defending my family and myself, it will be .308
My plan is to shelter in place. We live a few miles outside of the nearest town (of about 10k people in the area). However, there is heavy dense tree coverage in my immediate vicinity. I can only see maybe a couple hundred yards in any direction from my actual house, and only when I walk down to the road can I start lining up longer shots. The local wildlife walk through my woods all the time, so in a shtf I will be brush hunting for protein. So for me, 5.56 works fine of the two you presented but my personal preference is 7.62x39 for the better game collection properties at those distances and less deflection from small twigs.
I have long chosen .308 as my go to cartridge for SHTF due to the fact that I live in North Dakota and can literally see for miles in any direction. That being said, the more I train and the more like-minded folks I network with, the more I am moving toward 5.56. I tend to agree with the .308 at home, 5.56 on the go thought process. If the need arose to link up with my group, the .308 would have a DMR application with the support of other team members. But, without it, the 5.56 would likely be more effective with round count and ease of use comparatively. I run a Sig Sauer 716i (thanks for the review Tim) and a Sig Sauer M400 Tread, both with 16" barrels in order to accommodate a suppressor without reaching past "musket" lengths. That being said, I do agree with the assessment of 5.56 being optimized for a 20" barrel. So based on environment, the .308 will be with me until it's time to leave or if my group wants a heavy hitter in the pod. Thanks for a good conversation!
Yes, A bit difficult to find 20” barrel complete AR rifles in stock, but 20” uppers are abundant. I chose the Del-ton Government profile upper to make an A4 clone.
5.56 is my preferred cartridge for where I live, lots of hills, and thick brush but not a lot of trees, suburban/rural, pretty open but plenty of houses. Engagement ranges would be within 50-100 yards to as far as 800+ yards. 77 grain going 2800 fps out of my 20 inch with a 1-8 should keep me happy out to 800. 55 grain imi hits 3300 fps, good out to 600
In a military conflict yes, but in a SHTF or similar scenario any hit with any caliber would be very problematic without EMS or a hospital to fix you up.
Really appreciate you making a point of pointing out that avoiding gun fights is the best option. Especially lately with all the people who seem to licking their lips at the idea.
Great points and perspective Tim. Also, kudos to the viewers, I don't think I've ever seen such a high ratio of thoughtful commentary compared to garbage comments as I have here.
Mike Glover put out a video about night vision and helmets for civilians. At first I used to think it was over kill and kind of LARPy. But Mike had a good point…when bad people come to your home at night or shtf or there’s a grid down event… you really should “own the night”. Even more so than doning body armor. As for 5.56 vs 308….I see value in both. I live in Reno we’re we have tons of sage brush packed with rabbits hawks geese ground hogs gofers coyotes and maybe deer if you are lucky. 5.56 would be better for small game out here. But then again we have open deserts too so I see value in 308 too. Luckily I have an AR10 and AR15. Basically a scalpel and an axe. I’d be happy with either one if I could only keep one.
I'm non US so the option is 12 bore or .22 for the majority of rural bods like me. Less so for the city folks, they generally have to make do with harsh language and kitchen knives. If I had the choice it would be .308 over 5.56 but that's because we have a lot of deer and ostrich with flat, mostly clear land and view range easily passing a mile most days. There are a suprising number of folks in my area good at slinging pointy sticks from afar though as well as an equally surprising number of very well stocked gun safes as long as you're OK without semi auto :)
.22lr is a good option in my opinion. If you had a Ruger 10-22 and some 25 round mags you could mess someone's world up even past 100 yards. You could hit them with quick, accurate fire. You will have to compensate with more volume of fire, but its a .22. You can easily pump out 10-15 rounds in seconds.
@@oldscratch3535 One thing I forgot to mention - we have a LOT of .22 air rifles that we use for small game. Good for birds and rabbits, ammo is very light to carry and a decent, old fashioned spring gun can last for decades with minimal maintenance. It's an often overlooked tool but they can be *incredibly* quiet if you tweak them a little bit. Won't do much to a person but good for filling the pot with minimal traces of your presence.
A good .22 air rifle can take a 400 pound hog with a brain shot inside of 25 yards. Ammo is dirt cheap. You can even cast your own ammo. An old car battery can be processed. The acid can be refined and used in the production of smokeless powder.
.308 is the best overall choice for any situation in any environment in my opinion. Most people are used to thinking in the outdated Vietnam war way of thinking. That being 5.56 is the best overall caliber. This can be detrimental to their survival. Let me preface, that 5.56 can and will work. However, .308 is the best do all SHTF cartridge because the pros far outweigh the cons. We also have to acknowledge and understand what the enemy is. Bunch of fat dudes with 5.56 rifles and armor. The pros: Better accuracy, better knock down, farther effective range, better incompacitation abilities (even if i hit armor, i have a good chance at breaking ribs), better cover penetration, less susceptible to adverse weather, better versatility (i can still go SBR and retain far better energy on target, i can .300blk ammo, 30-06 ammo to reload, and i can even go subsonic with a bolt action and get great effect on target), easier to supress, and i can take larger game with 1 decent shot instead of multiple shots or 1 perfect shot. Cons: weighs more. We are fighting fat dudes with 5.56 rifles wearing armor in SHTF. That means they will be running and falling to cover. With a .308, you have them far out gunned. That brick wall they are behind at 500 yards, is no match for a 180gr .308. But for a 77gr 5.56... good luck. Also, if i land 1 shot on you with a .308, your going down. You can land 3 shots of 5.56 on me and i keep fighting. Also, if i hit you in plates with a .308, i have a chance to break ribs, incompaciting you or slowing you down enough to land 1 shot on you. If we are engaged in a fight in the pouring rain with 20mph wind at 300yrds, good luck with 5.56. My .308 will out perform that 5.56 every time. If we have the same amount of training and i have a .308 vs your 5.56, you'll feel out gunned and your will to fight will go down the toilet once big heavy .308 rounds start eating your brick wall away.
Opinion before watching video: 5.56. More ammo available, lighter to carry, can arguably hunt a wider range of game with it(308 might ruin the insides of smaller game; larger game can be taken with 5.56 even though it might not be ethical to let an animal bleed out, then again, I don't hunt).
you can still shoot 308 subsonic through a semi auto, though youll have to manually cycle it. If you reload you can custom tailor rounds for taking medium to what is considered a small game.
I’m not sure what you call small game, but I’ll tell you that in my experience taking small game with a 5.56 is not a realistic idea. I’ve seen many a groundhog burst apart with a 5.56. The smallest game you might take without seriously harming your meat harvest is a large jackrabbit. There wouldn’t be much left of a cottontail or a squirrel. And on the larger side, you can take elk and even moose with proper shot placement with a .308.
Seeing that XCR-M just makes the wait for mine harder. I think he nailed it. 308 for staying place and 5.56 for bugging out. I know the round capacity is much less but a solid 12 gauge in pump or semi auto are great choices. They can make quick work in short range urban areas and can reach out to 100 yards or so with slugs. My 18 in. barrel 870 with a rifled choke and 1oz. slug is surprisingly accurate at 100 yards.
I have both 5.56 and .308 as well as .300 AAC all scoped with the .308 set for long range. I also live a mile from the Dare to Care food bank distribution center, and having volunteered there I know they have several years worth of food there and that would be my first destination to secure for myself and my family.
308 for me. Being in Alaska I need the larger round for obvious reasons. If I had to choose one round though it’d probably be 7mm rem mag considering the grain range I can use.
My first ar which was fairly recent I went with a308 savage AR10 with 16in barrel and a 1x12 scope. I did that with the same one gun shtf mindset and or if I only could buy one for now mindset. It small enough for cqb self defense but large enough to hunt deer out to a few hundred yards. Sense then iv also aquired a ar-15 in 300blk with a 8 ½ inch barrel and a stubby 2x10 scope it's a semi frankenstein with a Anderson lower and the upper from a manufacturer out of Texas. It's good out to 300 max for deer but perfect for lessor ranges especially food plots and under 200 not to mention self defense in house down the steps across the yard and down the street. Yes my state let's you finish the fight so they can't circle around on you.
I own three AR-15s a L1A1 and a M1A along with my M-1 Garand. My plan is to avoid contact at all cost there is no medical personnel or medivac chooper coming for you. 5.56X45 and an AR-15 is best for on the move if I'm defending from a fixed poison the 308 is great depending of your fields of fire and terrain.
All valid points, I would say what ever is used, really know the rounds ballistics, and be able to apply the fundamentals of markmenship. I have worked with people who can not place rounds out past 300 yards whether it's a 300 win mag, or 5.56. I would also mention, there are also those who bring home elk with a bow. My go to for my current situation is the AR platform in .223/5.56, with a scoped, 20" barrel. As brought in the video, the small caliber does it's best with velocity, and I love to be able to pin point the hits. For myself, I would see security as more of an issue, than hunting game, but I should be able to do both. As always a fun topic, thank you for sharing.
im a firm believer every cartridge has its day(has a situation where it outshines others) for me short or mid distance 16" 5.56, home defense 300 blackout pistol, longer range .224 valkyrie 20", dropping food at 100 yards .458 socom 18". in my eyes the question is prefernce and how soft of recoil you want. ar platforms have so many cartridges to choose from and as long as you have a lower you can have multiple uppers. gonna go hunting slap on the longer barrel, going to a range where its 100-300 yards throw on a shorter barrel. wanna try youre hand at long range slap on the 20+" barrel. every catridge has that one round that out performs others in a given situation just have the patience to do the research and experimenting.
@@justinlance4174 i have im actually in the process of pricing out to build an upper round 14-16 inch, piston though. hear alot of great things from hunters and long range shooters on the cartridge. i really like the 224 i built. taken it out to 1000 yrds. hits it easy. so i think the grendel might be able to hit 1000 with a 16 inch.
.223 with a .22lr conversion. Best balance between need of force and use for hunting, a 22lr with suppressor could keep You less easy to find, good for hunting small game. And if You need to hunt something bigger just take out the conversion and shoot .223.
@@djjaysky9071 Ok, but that will be much heavier if have booth. If You are satisfied with only the .22 lr, then a Ruger 10/22 Takedown will be better, or a AR15 in .223 and a good .22lr pistol suppressed and some kind of 1-4x20 scope for the small game a 5-6inch barrel. But this instead, a suppressed lever action in .357 for big game, .38spc for quiet work, a .357 4 inch revolver.
I'd always rather carry two separate guns if one of them is dedicated small game. A tiny little single shot break down 22 is barely a few pounds and the main goal is food. The AR or AK should be taken anyways for protection. If you're out shooting small game and a group of 2-3 people decide you're a target, might not have the time to do a quick conversation back to 223/5.56 but much quicker to just drop the 22 and grab the AR to defend yourself.
Actually my CMMG conversion has been 100% reliable through two thousand rounds with a wide variety of ammo. It’s handy to have but I still prefer a 10/22.
I have one of each. 1000 rounds for each. Few spare parts here and there. Both from PSA just awesome and reliable stuff. For stopping power 308 all day. For hunting 308 all day although I’ve used both.. The AR 10 is the go to honestly but if I need to throw rounds down range rapidfire or going on a long haul journey by foot and I know I can only bring one thing with me and I’m not going back maybe the A.R. 15. The end of the day it’s really preference. People talk about parts availability after the world ends or ammunition but guess what if parts are that available it’s because you’re taking other rifles off of dead people or just finding entire rifles, randomly in vehicles, or houses or what not. Point is I don’t think parts necessity is an issue. My AR 10 breaks down, or I run out of ammo than A.R. 15‘s will be so available I could find one along with ammo
My Dad was on the all Army Rifle team when he went to Vietnam the first time. He took an M14 because he had several issues with the M16. Not all the battles were short range; there were many times that they were engaged across rice paddies and the M16 was not as effective as the AK47 at longer range. His Battalion commander asked him to give up the M14, which he did. In the final analysis, most of the young men serving had not shot before and the army training was basically familiarization training. The M16 shoots better than most people can hold. Between the way the Army fights and the technology, any circumstance that requires longer than 100 yards is going to be solved with snipers or other support. In my collection, I have a "'03", M1, M1A, AR15. I have an AK47 as well. When I moved from the M1A to the AR15, I thought (and I still do) that there was something in the middle that might be a better choice i.e. like the AK, but more accurate. I haven't bought a 6.5 yet, but I thought in that area would be a better all around gun. That said, I like the 3006 for cartridge versatility. I hand load and I have done from 120 grain all the way up to 220 grain in the '06. When you try to pick an all around, it's like the EDC black hole. Anyway, I don't think anyone was better suited to make a recommendation than COL Cooper and he picked the 308 for his scout rifle....
"Anyway, I don't think anyone was better suited to make a recommendation than COL Cooper" Why do you think this? With all respect and deferance to Mr. Cooper, there are thousands of former E3's running around with far more combat experience than Mr. Cooper.
A good middle ground between the M1a and the AR platform might be a Galil Ace. They make them in 5.56, 308, and 7.62x39. Very manageable rifle with very little recoil and good accuracy
Great video Tim, my situation is similar to yours. We prep regularly and plan to bug in, however we do have a bugout as well. If I could only take one it would likely have to be 308, however I have a couple go-to rifles in both calibers. Like you said, it truly is very specific to your exact scenario. I know I need to hunt, but I often bow hunt. My favorite 308s would be the Scar and FAL. My favorite 5.56s for SHTF would likely be Daniel Defense. I like an SBR in 5.56, I stick to around 10.5" barrels but you are correct that I'm losing capability of the caliber running that short barrel. If I could only have one 5.56 I'd have a long barrel, no doubt.
I exclusively run 7.62x39, it's still an intermediate cartridge in 30.cal and it's been taking down bucks, hogs, and people for many many years, and even though I personally run AK's, I'm still a strong believer that the SKS suppressed is the ultimate SHFT gun.
556 is the overall better choice, if one had to be picked for the average American, even when I love my Tavor 7. Most of us are living in more urban/suburban areas compared to Tim, who lives out in the country. 556 ball typically does more tissue damage when in effective range compared to 308 ball. When the range starts to extend, yes, 308 is the better option but for a vast majority of people in America, the range is within 100-200 yards.
we run strictly AR platforms! We have a DPMS 18" heavy barrel for reaching out. We (Wifey & I) can reach out 500 yds easily with it! Also have an older, but very reliable Bushmaster 16" barrel! For around the homestead close we each carry PSA AR pistols. If we would happen need that bigger, long range cartridge, I could pull out the Tikka T3 in 300WSM. rounds are fewer, but it is extremely accurate! Our plans, along with our tribe, is to avoid any confrontations when possible and for those times when you can't, use extreme prejudice! As always, thanks for sharing! Value your opinions tremendously!
I've never understood why when this topic arms/shtf is discussed, people talk as if they are going to be in multiple prolonged fire fights. They don't say that directly using those words but the ideas they present of 2000rds of this ammo, replacement parts, gear up the wazzoo. No one can predict what any scenario will look like or how it will play out. You are statistically lucky if you survived more than one encounter unless you had/have serious experience or training i.e. military. More than likely someone smarter is going to pop a shot when you are not ready for it, kill you, and simply walk up and take your gear. All variables of which there a millions change with your health, experience, location, season, duration of event, etc. Is one caliber better.....whichever you have on hand when needed will be the best there is.
All valid points. “Whichever you have on hand when needed will be the best there is.” That’s kind of the point of the video. Having a .308 or 5.56 in hand will be vastly superior than a 9mm pistol. Whichever your statistical rate of survivability, nobody who plans thinks, “well, I probably won’t survive anyways, so I guess I don’t need much gear.” The better your preparedness, the greater your rate of survivability. Get a group, get a spot, and gear up to the best of your abilities. I think this all comes down to “better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it,” and that is regarding gear, food, land, weapons, and ammo.
I agree, but it's a good problem to have, right? Our best outcome is that it remains a hobby. IF IT DOESN'T, 5.56 AR-15, 300 BLACKOUT AR PISTOL, AR-10, AMMO CANS UPON AMMO CANS!!! NOW WHERE DID I PUT MY CHEST RIG?!!!
@@patmaloney1140 LOL, that’s awesome and you are absolutely right. I agree, let’s hope this just stays an interesting “what if” topic to discuss with fellow enthusiasts.
My city dwellers stick with 556....11.5-16 inch red dot and mag, 62-77 grain ammo... Side arms really think about something hammer fired in the event u lose control on the weapon the majority of ppl now are clueless on hammer firing systems ...also a backup Glock dbl stack 9mm...and always try to avoid fire fights if possible.
Some time ago you posted a video with watermelons comparing 20” and 14” ARs in 5.56. That convinced me to get a 20” (which I was more partial to anyways for nostalgic reasons). Now I’m quite happy I did. It definitely carries more energy at longer ranges and if I need something shorter I’d go 7.62x39. But that 20” AR will punch through Level III plates at close range just out of sheer velocity with 55 gr projectiles
Good video. I would go with a lighter fighting AR10 if I had to pick one primary. Especially for someone that might be in a more unlucky urban situation that plans to bug out at some point. Or just do suppressed 300BLK if youre in an apartment jungle. (No PCCs ever)
For SHTF what is way more likely then Hollywood style gunfights is sickness, starvation and dying to the elements due to lack of survival skills/knowledge for sure but that’s boring to talk about lol. I think your point of a hunting caliber is really important here and something shockingly few ppl think about. I’d rather have a heavier cartridge. An AR is good to have for sure but if I HAD to have one “long gun” id look for a light-ish 308 bolt gun I think, good for most things and simple. I’d want an AR close by, at the house/in my vehicle but living rurally like I do a 30 cal rifle, preferably one that’s simple so if I had to I can work on it like a bolt gun or even a lever gun makes more sense to pack around with. Good points in this vid, happy new year everyone!
Given you're only going to have a semi auto why wouldn't you have a .308? I'd say that a .308 bullpup with a 20" barrel and a silencer would be the perfect balance of compactness, accuracy and power.
Ideally, your group would have both, because both have advantages and disadvantages, and bring different capabilities. If I had to pick just one, it would be 5.56, for the following reasons. First, most defensive gun use is going to be close. Clearing structures with a 7.62mm battle rifle is difficult, not only because they tend to be longer and heavier than their intermediate counterparts, but because they are also much more concussive and disorienting when fired indoors. A 5.56 is going to be plenty loud indoors, but a 7.62 is going to be much more so. A 7.62 with a relatively short barrel and a brake will blast dust off the walls and be like discharging a flash bang grenade in front of your face. Expecting to remain aware of your surroundings and communicate with others in your group becomes impossible. Secondly, the amount of ammo that can be carried matters more than the relative power of each round when discussing high velocity rifle cartridges. Both should be expected to be fairly effective but neither is a guaranteed one shot stop. The 5.56 allows you to score multiple hits faster, and also allows you to suppress more. In a SHTF situation, without rule of law, you are going to need to suppress targets in order to move. The 5.56 allows you to carry more opportunities to save your life and allows you to maintain your mobility better. Most ammo in modern combat is expended suppressing objectives so that you can move, either advancing on the enemy or breaking contact and withdrawing. Mobility is your greatest asset. Allowing yourself to lose the initiative and be pinned down is suicide. Patton said defensive positions are a testament to man's stupidity. The more ammo you can carry, the more you can move. The more you can move, the longer you live. It is that simple. And the 5.56 is not to be underestimated. Even at 500 or 600 yards, from a 16+ inch barrel, you're still talking about a 600 degree piece of metal tearing through your chest at 1.5x the speed of sound. Imagine heating a screwdriver to 600 degrees with a blowtorch, and then having the screwdriver rammed into your chest. That is how "ineffective" a 5.56 is at 500 yards.
@kevin pierson Not really "too." The 7.62 NATO is arguably as effective at 1000 yards as the 5.56 is at 500 yards. The problem is that you reach diminishing returns. The probability that you will be decisively engaged, that is, you must fight back and can not simply egress, decreases exponentially as range increases. So sacrificing speed and volume of fire up close where the majority of engagements are by going with a battle rifle chambered in a full power rifle round to gain what quickly becomes a largely theoretical advantage in range doesn't make sense for most of us. That being said, some standoff distance and the ability to engage point targets beyond the practical effective range of the enemy is a useful capability to have. So if I was part of a group, say fire team sized, and there was already three or four 5.56mm carbines in the group, I could see having a couple 7.62s in the group, just to diversify capabilities. A 16 in AR10 with a LPVO and an 18 to 20 in AR10 as a DMR would be useful to have, they are just more specialized, and thus, not worth planning an entire group around. I have a 20 in Aero Precision M5 with a Primary Arms Glx 2.5-10x44 Griffin mil dialed in with Hornady 178 gr ELDXs that will do amazing things well past the range of any 5.56. She is just heavy and cumbersome, and not my first pick for an all-around Thunderdome rifle for that reason.
I couldn't agree more with this. If possible one person in my family will have an AR 15 (20yo son or wife) and I will be running the AR 10. But if I had to choose just one then it would depend on where I was headed and what kind of game is around
Truth. The younger kids (9/10) are proficient w the AR .22lr which would be very useful in survival situations/small game. I also have a few pistol caliber carbines to throw in mix of what I want in a shtf situation
I have several 5.56mm rifles, and a 7.62x54R, and a 6.5 Creedmoor. I live 'in town', so other than our EDC handguns, the 5.56 works for our area. If I bug out, I have longer range options.
I live in a town with a lot of small highways running through it. There's a lot of small residential areas interspersed between wide roads, and shopping centers and gas stations. For me, I think my 18.6" barreled X-95 would work best, once I get an LPVO on it. I'd be able to reach out the 100-200 yds to take out a threat across a road or parking lot, but still have a viable rifle for any kind of close in work I might need to do in the residential areas.
Not a fan of binary triggers. Have seen many instances where "binary" mode ended up with a dead trigger. It's also more complicated with more things to break...not good for shtf.
Agreed with your logic, I've added the m1a a heavier 22 inch BBL synthetic stock, great in wolf County Idaho! Keep up the good work. Ps I'm using 10 rd mags.
If 6.5 Grendel was more common, it would be my choice overall. Lightweight rounds, AR15 sized weapons, more devastating than 5.56, and equal or longer range than .308. Win win win.
I live in North Georgia. A suppressed eight inch barreled AR loaded with Federal 123 grain supersonic copper hollow points is my go to for deer hunting and personal defense. It’s taken a few deer cleanly. I never get a shot over 150 yards.
I feel like the 6.8x51 will be what the .40 cal was to the 9mm..it was supposed to be new and improved, but after many years everyone is switching back
I have both. In pistols and rifles. 12" to 24" in 308. 12" to 20" in 556. I still think 6.5 Grendel cuts the best balance. But that's probably just me. I'm fortunate to have 5k+ rounds on hand for it, and devices from 11" to 26.5" that utilize it. Uses the same BDC as 556/308, so that's helpful. Nice presentation.
Something a surprising amount of people dont seem to understand. There is a difference in making hits on a target and an effective game cartridge. I can make hits all day long at 500 plus on a steel target with .556. However, the energy for doing the damage needed to take game is not dependable. Military effective range is creating a wound in your enemy. Game taking effective range is being able to take an animal cleanly. The velocity loss is substantial for .556 especially out of the shorter bbl. Read up on this with these thoughts to become your own expert. This man is spot on with this video. Good job.
Still, with heavy for caliber bullets 5.56 has no problem retaining energy and penetration out to 200-300 yards for hunting. An AR also allows for quick follow up shots. Hunting ethics are less of a concern in a shtf scenario.
Thoughts on effective game distances on 300 blackout? The quick search i just did showed like 480 yards, but did not define which effective range limit.
@@borkwoof696 actually it becomes more important during a shtf scenario. The goal good times or bad is to drop the animal as fast as possible. If you wound the animal now you have to track and recover it putting you at greater risk of being spotted by people who would do you harm. The reality is in a shtf scenario you shouldn't be using your firearm to hunt. You should learn how to make snares, bow hunt, leg hold traps and other silent hunting methods that don't tell others you are there. Save the ammo for defensive or offensive rolls even if using a suppressor it still makes a fair bit of sound. 300bo subsonic is pretty quiet but now you've reduced your effective range considerably., same for 22lr. Learn hunting skills that don't use firearms, they will serve you far better specially if it's a long term shtf scenario as ammo gets harder to procure.
@@JACKSONLEWISOFCANADA I live in the sticks, so what I leave my property with would be what I might expect to run into. Most people probably aren't going to be on foot unless they dismount. In my vehicle I will have a side arm, truck gun, and a long riffle. I would bow hunt for large game, and use a pellet rifle for small game as to not draw attention from afar. Everyone out here in rural areas tend to look out for one another. It will be a lot worse for city folk.
Hi Tim, what do you think about overbarrel silencers? I think i never saw one in your content. Love your content 👍 Grogu is watching you 😁 .556 and .308 both are great cartridges, my use depends on the goal i have
I’ve got an 18” DdM4V7 pro. Velocity is certainly why I got those all important 2”. For close in a Tavor X95 is hard to beat. Even smaller then a Mrk18. I’m currently looking into a bigger caliber for game. Might go old school 30.06, but also contemplating the 6.5 Creedmoor.
There is no "best" for SHTF. It highly depends on the type of SHTF. The "best" is to have many different calibers and pick the one according to the situation. Honestly - you won't leave your house in SHTF unless you have to. So, this way the "best" is relative as you can choose and hold more guns. When you have to leave with your family you also don't have to choose - each member can carry something....then it depends if you are leaving in a car or on foot... If I had to choose between those two I would go for 556 because weight of ammo and because .308 doesn't outperform 5.56 in killing capability that much. But, I don't really like these comparisons as they are very relative and you can never include every "if". For example - If I was forced to leave alone into the wild with no way back having just one main and one sidearm weapon my pick would be most likely 9mm pistol and long .22lr semiauto (eg. Ruger 10/22). Why? 1) I can carry like 300+ rounds of .22lr per 1 kg 2) .22 "no recoil" fast accurate bullet placement is hell of a suppresing fire for anything and it WILL stop coming towards you (you can still carry 3 times more ammo/kg than e.g. 5.56 remember? :-) ) That gives you chance to withdraw because... ....3) In SHTF I don't want to get involved into any firefight. Even stupid scratch from underestimated .22 can kill me later...And if somebody engage first it will be for sure in position when I won't have any chance to react (so my caliber won't matter). If he misses and I get the chance to hide and reengage - I'll pick the new place and time where my 9mm pistol would be enough (I wouldn't start a distance firefight even with 5.56=waste of precious ammo). When I am spotted in open area I can have even 50 BMG in my hands yet I am still done for good anyway... 4) In my area there will be bigger chance to bump into a small game animals and I won't turn it into pieces with the .22 5) .22 with silencer is quiet AF (the Mossad could refer :-)) 6) .22 is still lethal round no matter what kind of shit was written about it around the internet..... ...and so on... IMHO
Happy New Year! My primary arms are .308 rifles with 16.25", 18", and 22" barrels. My secondary arms are .223 rifles with 16" and 18" barrels. I also have 16" .22 Magnum rifles. All of them have suppressors.
Yeah it's deffinantly ideal in most cases just hard finding it in some areas. Lol people in my area are going to be slinging 3006 and 3030 if they get into fights with each other.
To cover my bases I split the difference and went with a 6.5 Grendel. Fortunately I stocked up on ammo before Covid. I still have the other calibers but this is my go anywhere do anything rifle.
I am 60 years old and no longer a high-speed, low-drag gunslinger. I also live in rural N Louisiana and I am not bugging out period regardless of what happens it's not a realistic option for me, I have prepared and fortified my homestead as well as I can. My mentality is other than hunting I hope I never have to use any weapon because if your option left is a gunfight you are in a real bad situation, folks don't realize how easy we can be killed and I don't give a damn how badass you think your gun and you are your still an easy target. Lol if you're honest, you should know that in reality, 99% of us can't even defend our own home on any given day against even halfway trained multiple adversary's most 556/223 ammo and above calibers will penetrate through your home exterior walls and windows. Lol unless you have beaucoup family members that are trained living in your home or you live in a shoebox there is no damn way you can defend your home. I know this is going butt hurt some egos. Lol
@@markrobbins1018 I’m in the same boat! I’m 63 and the thought of rucking up and walking into the wilderness is not a happy thing. I have prepared my house as best as I can and my wife and I will most likely stay home and hunker down. If the scenario allows for it, we may pack up and drive to my son’s place in Idaho. That of course, is very dependent on the situation.
I’m of the mindset of having enough supplies without having too many different calibers. So .22lr great for my son to plink and grab small game with also feeds a 10/22 and a pistol. An Rifle that shoots 5.56 and .223 exponentially increases the ammo you can shoot. A 9mm for the pistol and carbine does double duty. And now the same applies to the .308- it feeds my hunting rifle and (if I had one ) an ar ten. You can hit North American game easily over 100 yards and if you happen to need more bang for your buck magpul makes a 50 round drum for .308, among others ( if you live in a free red state). Plus a 12 gauge. So 5 (6 if you count .223 with 5.56) rounds that you need to stockpile. Nothing exotic. Nothing too expensive. And all are available at most sporting good stores. Even during the pandemic these were easier to find than some others.
.556 cause I have a boatload of it, but my .308 pistol is what really makes the difference in SHTF, no cover and has more range (even with loss of velocity from 10 inch barrel)
InRangeTV made a test and determined that .308 with a barrel less than 12 inches has the same energy as 7,62x39 with the same barrel length. After that, .308 is better.
@@carabinapacifista5627 yeah but its 762X39, even the russians hate that crap, I have a AK but not a fan, besides its a nice handy option and the muzzle break (diverter) makes it easy to shoot.
@@gunsandcars3648 yeah, but it comes down to what I just said. 16" AKs are obsolete, but I still recommend having a longer barrel with .308 than 10", but you do your money.
Being I live in the city, I opted for a shorter barrel for CQC and moving about street to street, bldg to bldg, with at least a 10 inch barrel in my pack for slightly further engagements of 200 yards or better, as far as a bug out location to my families property about a hour and half drive north of here, with plenty of water and the use of his barn for shelter, I could make some fairly close shots on deer and other suitable animals for protein.
Until now, the portuguese military and police where using 308 g3s, also 308 is more popular here because of hunting. The 308 caliber is better for shtf here in portugal land. But the army and some police forces are switching for 556. I have a 556 but i am not counting on salvaging ammo, should something happens. And being a small country mobility is very important. The ability to escape is better then the ability to fight.
@@hamradio2930 e eles também respeitam muito aquilo que escrevemos, às vezes mais do que os comentários doa próprios americanos. Porque para eles, tal como para nós, o gosto pela armas é global. Já aprendi mais sobre as armas portuguesas em vídeos dos youtubers americanos do que com qualquer media português. E eu sei por experiência própria que os nossos comentários têm eco. Os Polenar Tactical fizeram um review da SDM AK-103 porque lhes pedi. Nunca fiquei a perder com um comentário nestes canais de guntubing, só vejo motivos para continuar. E aconselho todos a fazê-lo.
@@canal10centrado eu na curiosidade já adicionei uns poucos deles conhecidos, desde o Demolition Ranch, o Herrera, este senhor, o Donut operator, entre outros.... aprende-se imenso e até dá para dar umas boas gargalhadas. É vergonhoso que não tenhamos uma pista de tiro aberta a civis para fazer tiro a mais de 100m em PT, depois empurram as pessoas para a ilegalidade, que é bem pior. Só em PT é que falar de armas é grande tabu, criado por pessoas fracas no espectro politico com medo que o cidadão comum possa expandir os seus conhecimentos balísticos. E mais uma vez, prazer em encontrá-lo.
I know this is gonna sound crazy, but if I could only take ONE of my guns for a SHTF situation, I’d take my Scorpion Evo S3. Only because I have a feeling that when I’m scavenging for ammo, I’m gonna find 9mm more than anything else.
My thought exactly, mine is a Ruger PC charger but same principal. You are your own logistics and having just one caliber helps like the old west mindset
Yup but this is where the glock on a stock becomes more advantages simple it's way lighter smaller way easier to concil and let's b honest here with new 9mm like fort scotts 80g going through soft lvl 3 body armor past 50 yards and killing a black bear at more then 80 my set up if I need to go light is glock stock and then if I need an actual rifle I pick up my ruger sfar in 308 and ways 6.8 lbs 16inch same size and weight as my ar15 and for under a k y the f would I chose something less effective and with the break and the bcg beings the same size as a standard ar15 size bolt and gas vent holes it shoots almost as soft as my 556 so again y I'm not gonna lie I might as well sell the 15 when it comes down to it u can always pick up the rounds and the gun if the round don't fit yours so I'm not sure where all the fuss is about anyway and anything tht hits u in a time where u can't seak medical attention even a small cut from a thron will kill u just the 2 cents I'm throwing in
Something I never seem to hear anyone talk about is the fact that full-auto sucks if you don't have the supply train to support it. The civilian application for any firearm will necessarily be semi-automatic, just out of simple and practical realities. I could make an argument for either 5.58 or 7.62 and in time of need would be glad to have either one. I just think that before even having that discussion, people should get some delusions out of their heads about what a SHTF situation would actually be like.
In my situation living in Tasmania, my options are somewhat different. I have a Browning (Miroku) BL-22 (S/L/LR), a CZ 455 in a MDT chassis with Mag-Pull grip and stock (SHTF survival kit stored in the buffer tube, battery storage slots, and grip) with the 22WMR sporting barrel and a Wraith DNV scope, and a third option of my 1974 built Marlin 336 in 30-30. My most likely survival rifle is the CZ, given most of my game options in my local area are the plethora of wallabies ( multiple different species ranging up to around 60kg 1.2m high, though the Forester can get to around 100kg and 1.8m high, in the north of my island), possums ( 8-10kg), and the increasing number of fallow deer. I probably would switch out the DNV scope for one of the several red dots in my collection which have much longer battery life. Tasmania has been put on the list of the 5 best places in the world to survive a total collapse of modern life. I have an electric car, which I charge off solar panels on my roof, and can reuse the stored electric power in my house. I have a 17 year old Mitsubishi 4x4 Fuso Canter truck with a all steel bodied slide on camper( built it myself, and acts like a Faraday Cage), and can run on locally made biofuels. I collect rainwater in three 25,000l ( 6,000 us gal) tanks, grow most of my food already. I think I’m gunna be ok.
No "one-gun solution" for everything, but a good thought experiment for sure. Thinking about one's own situation, terrain and likely encounters is better than blindly going along with common thought. Still for me, I have multiples for different intended purposes and any of them can be pressed into other roles as needed. Happy New Year, Tim and all of the MAC crew and family!
I think it comes down to requirements and versatility. A 20” 5.56 gun is effective with cheap FMJ out to ranges you can’t reliably hit with iron sights. A
A 16" inch carbine has roughly the same terminal performance with M193 as a 20" out to 200 or so. A 16" gun covers the most ground as to ease of carry and general performance. Below 16" you start cutting off performance drastically. I carried a musket. Yes it performs very well. But I wouldn't choose it over a good 16". Or see a need to.
@@DutchK75 agreed, that’s why my GP carbine is a light profile 16” barrel. 6.3# with loaded pmag. DD barrel, centurion mlok hand guard. Scalar irons. Sweet little setup
I do not think it is an either or option as you need a hunting round and defensive round. My daughter does not like the weight of my FN/FAL, but she has no issues with an AR15. Would she deer hunt with an AR? Of course not. Her first deer was with the FN/FAL.
I'm older. Born in the 1900s. My first gun after .22 rf was an 8mm Mauser. And that's what I thought rifles felt like to shoot. Then I bought an SKS. And was like HFS this thing is a puppy. Sweet no recoil. When I got my first AR I thought it was a joke. No way would I ever take an animal with it bigger than a racoon. My point (if I have one) is that it depends what you have been trained on. I own all calibers. But I am very comfortable with my M&P10 .308 as a "walk through the woods" every day gun. I think .556 guns are toys or reserved for cases where you need to be super mobile, i.e. vehicles, jumping out of airlplanes etc.
Totally agree. So many people fantasize they are going to “John Wick” their way through the Purge. Absolutely the best way to survive a shtf situation is to avoid conflict as much as possible.
i john wicked for like 15 seconds and the homie said "foo that was the whole clip" and i was like 'its a magazine olmes" and then we protested for rodney king in korea town and lost the war
30-06 it is then give some distance
308 is a great way to avoid conflict. Especially if it is an l1a1 SLR .
Exactly, and now I have a kitted out AR-10 with a bipod grip and suppressor on the way…. In 4-7 months lol. For survival, you’d want to be as far away as possible from the conflict, while still being effective and engaging.
Ive been rethinking all of this in my head and I believe that you have the rite idea
.308 (7.62 x 51 mm) for staying home, .223 (5.56 mm) for on the move.
To me this is an excellently simple way to sum it up. Yes, various factors, yadda yadda is true, but great rule of thumb in one phrase.
7.62x39 does the same thing but with twice the bullet weight and works a lot better in pistol form
Wow I was looking for this. I asked a question in the comments and made it too complicated I think. Thanks
12.7x99 for the homestead. You decimate one or two targets with it, and the rest will turn tail.
@@ChrisG1392 300 blackout?
South alabama here. Live on the river swamp. we been preparing for this our whole lives and didnt know it.. every 10 year old boy here , can hop on a jon boat with a 22 rifle. And some tackls and come back that evening with enough fish and small game to feed his family for a week. We are VERY. Close to our neighbors and in most cases arr like family.. after all we all grew up together.. we are all armed. Most of us reload. Our worst concern would be the mass encroachment of nearby cities like mobile coming our way.. they are grossly under equiped and inexperienced to deal and would most likley look to prey on people to survive.. it would be a grave miscalculation to bring a fight here.. they know it .. we know it.. so we dont really worry much about fighting... So in reality a shtf scenario for us would almost be a vacation.. we save our work leave all year for hunting season and fishing.. for me its easy .. 5.56 in a 16 inch barrel with my handloads. And my glock 17 , also with my handloads.. if i can smash water jugs at 600 then i can smash deer that far. But ive never had to take one passsd 300 here. With most being within 150 yards.. your biggest assets in this scenario is your teamates. Do you have any? If so how many? Are they assets or burdens.. your not gonna make it long without a team... No matter what caliber rifle you have
And ps.. 5.56 and 9mm work great on gators.. and gator is some of the best food you can eat lol
“ Swamp Fox, Swamp Fox, tail on your hat. No one knows where the Swamp Fox’s at. He’ll run away to fight again ! “ Grew up duck hunting the swamps of eastern N.C. and floating black water streams for squirrels and ducks. Swamp walkers will survive as they flourish in an environment totally foreign to city dwellers. 😉
You’re killin deer at 300yds with a 5.56?
Avoidance and survival, these ideas need to be reinforced more often. Great video.
Avoidance and cowardice is why we are even discussing this topic. If men would just read the constitution and forcefully remove the demonic installed leaders we wouldn't be discussing this.
Agree, great video. Could do without the "Shiznit" - I *think* we're all adults here ;-).
@@joebob617 It's TH-cam dude....
Nah let all the crazy’s take care of each other
I agree with you, alot of people are eager to get into a fight not knowing what its going to be like. My plan, disappear and survive. Avoid fights at all costs and simply enjoy the great out doors.
Since this has gotten alot of comments, let me go ahead and say that i have a few rifles, 308, 556, and carry every single day. I know how to use all of them and have plenty of ammo as well. I am prepared for a fight, but i would choose NOT to fight if possible. Are people going to come looking for food? yes. And if i have spare rations, im going to help feed them.
🤔. I guess you will be leaving your family behind
@@thefreedomwarrior Nope, benefits of living in the country, if youre smart, you have land before you need to disappear. You may even have living structures on the land!
Go to Canada then
Im not advocating picking a fight, and i agree with the running and hiding will increase your survival rate. however, If SHTF like many of us expect it to then the last thing we need is every able bodied man capable of bearing arms to be hiding.
The great outdoors will be flooded with people. Saw this during the pandemic lockdowns. Much more activity in the great outdoors no matter where I went. Also it’s quite probable The fighting will erupt everywhere. Stop pretending shtf is going to be about hitting the woods and hiding out, hunting and farming in your little areas. I highly doubt it’s going to be like that. Do some comparisons of what it looks like when societies collapse. You are correct people don’t know what it will look like that is why we still have people saying I’m gonna hit them woods and enjoy my time during shtf! Lmao ok bud. People will hunt you down. There will be chaos. It’s not going to go the way you have been planning for. Murdered for your stockpile of rations? Taken prisoner by large groups vying for power in the vacuum left behind? When the panic in the cities bubbles over they are going to run for the hills. Good luck hiding for very long. Also good luck hunting when the combat causes wildlife to scatter. Or when everyone else with the same idea mows everything down for the hell of it. Hundreds/thousands taking refuge from the chaotic cities will come running bringing mass panic, disease, murder. It’s a fantasy to think the way you are. You won’t be doing much enjoying of the great outdoors irl. And that’s just if it collapsed imagine how much worse if it was an invasion complete with air raids or what about if nukes were used? Start taking the situation a little more seriously.
I always carried a AR10 and then got into AR15s. I couldn’t believe how handy a AR15 with a 16” barrel and 30 rd magazine is. A joy to carry
Then you've never carried either past moving from truck to range table.. neither are a joy to carry especially on the move
@@codycasner3732 Then what do you recommend for "on the move"?
@@codycasner3732the weight difference is significant between the two, and anyone who has hunted with an ar10 vs a 300blk ar15 will let you know how much heavier it is especially when in bush
I just got a Ruger, SFAR, 308 Win, 16.10" Barrel, an ar10 in ar15 style would that be considered best of both worlds?
@@pathfinder7420 as long as it’s reliable
I have a 20" AR 223 Wylde, with a hunting scope, if bugging out becomes necessary, that will be the go to. If staying put is the better option (hopefully), I run an M1A .308, it's what I hunt mule deer with every year anyway.
Why 20”?
@@spencermichaelson1882 I wanted to optimize long distance accuracy and velocity. Where I am, long distance open desert is what I will deal with most often.
@@masteranger4499I’d imagine the 308 would be far more better suited. I live in coastal forests with serious mountains to the north. Looking into a 308
My 223 Wylde barrel AR-15 has an 18 inch barrel. 🤷
I’ve recently spoke with family and specific friends. We played out a basic plan and agreed on five types of ammo
.308 5.56 9mm. 22lr and 12 gauge
With the intent to shelter in place and back up jump spots. Having everyone agree to specific ammo being the key so we can combine and share if needed.
For the video I agree completely the 5.56 is great but it’s a tool with specific uses
I wanted my peeps. To go with 300blk. But I was over ruled mainly because everyone else already was set up with 5.56
Stay safe out there and thanks for the content
@@MotorBoating1413 That sounds like a very health and pragmatic approach! I applaud you and your team for having the hard talks that ultimately benefit everyone.
Another consideration is cost. Getting into a semi auto .308 is a much more expensive proposition. There are many 18" barreled ARs available, and with heavy rounds they can do well hunting deer sized game. You're also going to be able to train a lot more with 5.56 for your money than .308. I have a 6.5 Creedmoor bolt action for hunting, as semi automatic fire isn't a priority for me hunting and bolt guns can be had for much more affordable prices.
.308 can drop someone who can't see you without glass though.
@@curtism-w6b So can a 5.56. Just because, the 5.56 is less powerful than the .308 doesn't mean it's underpowered. Consider this, a typical (I know there are variables) 5.56/.223 bullet has more energy at 500m than a .22 mag/9mm/.45 has at the muzzle, generally speaking.
I am also a USMC vet, and I completely agree with your thoughts. One of my AR's is equipped with an 18" barrel (I wanted a 20"), and it's a lot cheaper to stack 5.56 rather than 7.62.
There are some pretty affordable 308's. However, as a general rule I would agree. Rifles from companies like PSA are quite affordable.
@@Militaryarmschannel Palmetto State Armory ftw.
I can imagine Tim having a tough time in a SHTF situation deciding which of his vast collection of rifles to use 🤣
😂😂
Get the humor, but that's likely decided way ahead of time based on what you spend the most time training with.
I wonder how many 1911's he is going to pack.
Truth. Limfac is always what you can carry/how many you can take.
Analysis paralysis. It's a real thing.
As a do-all cartridge that provides all that 5.56 can, and more, the .308 sure does have some appeal to it.
but expensive
@@matts8791Yeah sheesh, even the cheapest dirt quality 308 in bulk is still over twice the cost of medium end 223/556 surplus per round.
All very good points. I’m 70 so I will more likely be sheltering in place. I have my .308 Ruger American for food (which is near by), AR for crowd control, shotties and pistolas for close encounters.
For a SHTF type of situation the simplest rule is availability, both ammo and parts. If you live in an area where a lot of people are dealing with varmints, you will probably easily find .223/5.56. If you're in an area where deer and boar hunting is the thing, you're probably going to have better luck with 308/7.62. Ideally, if I didnt have the collection I have presently I would want a 5.56 AR, and something like a remington 700 for hunting given the commonality of parts for both. AR-10s are still not incredibly common, so getting replacement parts is a concern where as almost everyone I know around my parts has some form of 700, and maybe an ar15 for fun.
yeah that's what he spent the entire video saying over and over.
@@jason200912 I know, sadly too many don’t finish the video these days.
This man speaks wisdom.
Ar-10's are becoming very popular in fact. Also all lower parts are interchangeable with an AR 15 lower minus recoil spring and buffer. Also if you own either you should have spare parts kits and a few items that will wear already on hand.
Everyone needs to hear the last 5 mins of this video. More ppl are focused on building a kit as if they are gonna be kicking doors down in Fallujah. Than being a survivor in the USA.
LOLOL you the man bc you're right. Fight or flight? Flight all day baby. There's no respawn
Yeah 2 tours in the GWOT. And I see the Posers with their 10.3-12.5 pistols acting like their gonna be kicking down names and taking doors. 🙄
But because Ninja SWAT Super Seal Chip Chazsputnuts on the YooToob's ran a 10.3 in Fallujah...🤷♂️
And you try to explain that a 10.3-12.5 is designed to be a suppressor host exclusively and that if you light your 10.3 off in the house with that Dragon flamer XL 2000 muzzle device you are more than likely going to be deaf and blind. Or that when entry teams make entry they have security and overwatch. So when they are out in the open they really don't have to depend on terminal ballistics. And they compound it by looking at you as if they are already deaf and blind. Because they have no clue on tactics. Or real world implications.
But as with everything in the first world. People have no frame of reference. And they mimic what they see. Or what they are told.
Short barrel AR15s are stupid
I agree however if leads flying I'd chose to have my plates on even though they are heavy and rather uncomfortable. Getting shot burns like a mf
With the 6.5cm take into account barrel erosion.
308 is more forgiving here with barrel erosion and wear.
Also 308 comes in 110gr varment rounds to 180gr loads. Flexibility and adaptibility.
556 can go up to 77gr.
The best caliber is the caliber you have on-hand, loaded in multiple mags, and ready to go in a zeroed and well-maintained firearm.
The rest is academic.
Exactly. Theoretical. I'm reading all these comments about the what if's. What if's have rarely been actual. Great statement. It's a reason that it has been repeated over and over, again and again. Use what you have and are extremely competent with.
You added nothing to discussion. The entire question is which caliber should you have on-hand.
@@bench175 Asking the question, “What caliber *should* you have” implies that there is a caliber one shouldn’t have on-hand (or is less desirable). This, furthermore, implies that if one has the less-than-ideal caliber firearm/ammo combo - that one one must now go out and purchase a firearm and the extremely over-priced Covid-time ammunition to feed it.
Why even make anyone feel insecure with what they may have? The topic is a dead horse, anyway.
Be proficient with what you have.
The point of the question is to get people to think about buying their kit. But seriously places like country tx, a 556 really really won't be enough even to shelter in place if someone with say a deer rifle is shooting at you from the foliage at the edge of your fields. If all you had was your 556 and pcc you were plinking at cans on the weekends, this thought experiment might have you consider getting a deer rifle that might be pressed into action if someone's taking shots at your family from the edge of your property
A very well put and intelligent comment.
Probably the best one here 🇺🇲🙂👍
I run 556 because of commonality of parts and ammunition in the US makes it easier for procurement. But I do like 6.5 grendel a lot for a light weight hard hitting package. Ammo is harder to come by tho and I got into it late, so stockpile is not attainable right now.
I have 500rnds of Wolf 6.5 Grendel for sale if you want to swing by Vegas to pick em up 😂
@@gunfunandstuff9226 🤣🤣🤣 No!
Ok 7.62 weighs more, but in my experience you need LESS ammo. I served in Battle of Fallujah and witnessed first hand just how weak 5.56 is compared to 7.62. There were instances where we needed to shoot hajis several times to bring them down. A 7.62 round will down down the enemy with one shot every single time. Accuracy by volume is great when you’re manning a machine gun, but for a rifleman a more lethal round is better than carrying more less lethal rounds. Just my opinion
5.56 is not made for killing.
Thanks for that input! I'm about to buy a rifle and was struggling with that issue. You convinced me. It's the 7.62/308 for me. I like having the options available.
Thanks for that important info 👍
You can also use 22lr in a AR 15 using conversion bolts and mags (CMMG)... So you have both a small game (22lr), larger game (223/5.56) and defensive gun all in one rifle
You can get a 10/22 for the cost of that conversation kit
I have used the Atchison mkIII for years. Good for training but nowhere near as accurate as a Savage mkII which actually costs less.
@@sandwichartist5053 I just purchased the CMMG conversion for $169.00. You can't purchase a new Ruger 10/22 for that.
you dont have to carry 2 guns either. 1 extra mag and bcg to switch.
@@sandwichartist5053 You completely missed the point the idea is you can carry the conversion bolt with one or two mags in your pocket and quickly convert your rifle to be used for small game hunting. And its definitely cheaper than a new 10/22
Good points to consider, Tim. I think one of the most important things you mentioned was, "bugging-in." I'm of the opinion, that unless you really need to evacuate, say due to a natural disaster, staying put makes a lot of sense. After all, that's where all your resources are. Good neighbors are a plus.
I was going to post something similar. Outside of a natural disaster, bugging out rarely makes sense... especially in urban/suburban areas. You're not the only person who's going to be bugging out, and unless you happen to have a full tank of gas, you're probably going to run out of fuel on a congested arterial trying to escape the city with 500,000 of your closest friends. Better to make friends with the neighbors and stockpile, and just hunker down. You should hopefully have plenty of resources that way, know the terrain, and you can both help and have help.
Just run a bolt action 308 w suppression ,and have the ar15 set up for fighting. That's how I'm rolling anyway
This depends on many factors. I chose a non-traditional battle rifle, a VEPR .308 with a 16" barrel. I bought it when they were still imported and affordable. I equipped it with a quality 4-12 scope and offset red dot, and a good flash hider. The result is a handy rifle that can do it all. It can be a DMR, it can be a battle rifle, and it can be a hunting rifle for large game, all at the same time. After changing the furniture, the recoil is straight line and very reasonable. This is the rifle I would choose for SHTF, as there's not much it can't do (other than hunt squirrel). I love my AR's, but the hard-hitting "reach out and touch something" capability of .308 is impossible to ignore.
Hkw good is the VEPR molot in 308?
I agree with the vote for .308. 5.56 is for plinking and indoors. I have block walls around my property as well as living on a grade where my neighbors are above or below my house. Even so, I stick with 77 gr Hornady Black for in the house. If things are so screwed up that I have to use my rifle outside defending my family and myself, it will be .308
No matter WHAT you run for SHTF, the real determining factor is training. If you don't train with it, it's useless. Trigger time will save your life
My plan is to shelter in place. We live a few miles outside of the nearest town (of about 10k people in the area). However, there is heavy dense tree coverage in my immediate vicinity. I can only see maybe a couple hundred yards in any direction from my actual house, and only when I walk down to the road can I start lining up longer shots.
The local wildlife walk through my woods all the time, so in a shtf I will be brush hunting for protein. So for me, 5.56 works fine of the two you presented but my personal preference is 7.62x39 for the better game collection properties at those distances and less deflection from small twigs.
I have long chosen .308 as my go to cartridge for SHTF due to the fact that I live in North Dakota and can literally see for miles in any direction. That being said, the more I train and the more like-minded folks I network with, the more I am moving toward 5.56. I tend to agree with the .308 at home, 5.56 on the go thought process. If the need arose to link up with my group, the .308 would have a DMR application with the support of other team members. But, without it, the 5.56 would likely be more effective with round count and ease of use comparatively.
I run a Sig Sauer 716i (thanks for the review Tim) and a Sig Sauer M400 Tread, both with 16" barrels in order to accommodate a suppressor without reaching past "musket" lengths. That being said, I do agree with the assessment of 5.56 being optimized for a 20" barrel. So based on environment, the .308 will be with me until it's time to leave or if my group wants a heavy hitter in the pod. Thanks for a good conversation!
I just bought the Sig 716i but haven't shot it yet. What do you think of yours?
@@darinwoody5542 really impressed so far. Accurate, lightweight compared to similar firearms and I haven't had any malfunctions so far!
Thanks
Yes, A bit difficult to find 20” barrel complete AR rifles in stock, but 20” uppers are abundant. I chose the Del-ton Government profile upper to make an A4 clone.
I’m carrying two. 5.56 and my M1 Garand. It works, I have ammo, and in my area we have lots of 30/06
5.56 is my preferred cartridge for where I live, lots of hills, and thick brush but not a lot of trees, suburban/rural, pretty open but plenty of houses. Engagement ranges would be within 50-100 yards to as far as 800+ yards. 77 grain going 2800 fps out of my 20 inch with a 1-8 should keep me happy out to 800. 55 grain imi hits 3300 fps, good out to 600
5.56 real world effective range is only 250 meters
In a military conflict yes, but in a SHTF or similar scenario any hit with any caliber would be very problematic without EMS or a hospital to fix you up.
@@djjaysky9071 according to whom? I've seen it effectively employed at much greater distances
@@djjaysky9071 Tell that to the (professional) kangaroo shooters in Australia.
@@djjaysky9071 wanna stand at 500 yards and let me hit you with a 77
Keep your thoughts to yourself
Really appreciate you making a point of pointing out that avoiding gun fights is the best option. Especially lately with all the people who seem to licking their lips at the idea.
Great points and perspective Tim. Also, kudos to the viewers, I don't think I've ever seen such a high ratio of thoughtful commentary compared to garbage comments as I have here.
Mike Glover put out a video about night vision and helmets for civilians. At first I used to think it was over kill and kind of LARPy.
But Mike had a good point…when bad people come to your home at night or shtf or there’s a grid down event… you really should “own the night”. Even more so than doning body armor.
As for 5.56 vs 308….I see value in both. I live in Reno we’re we have tons of sage brush packed with rabbits hawks geese ground hogs gofers coyotes and maybe deer if you are lucky. 5.56 would be better for small game out here. But then again we have open deserts too so I see value in 308 too.
Luckily I have an AR10 and AR15. Basically a scalpel and an axe. I’d be happy with either one if I could only keep one.
I'm non US so the option is 12 bore or .22 for the majority of rural bods like me. Less so for the city folks, they generally have to make do with harsh language and kitchen knives.
If I had the choice it would be .308 over 5.56 but that's because we have a lot of deer and ostrich with flat, mostly clear land and view range easily passing a mile most days. There are a suprising number of folks in my area good at slinging pointy sticks from afar though as well as an equally surprising number of very well stocked gun safes as long as you're OK without semi auto :)
.22lr is a good option in my opinion. If you had a Ruger 10-22 and some 25 round mags you could mess someone's world up even past 100 yards. You could hit them with quick, accurate fire. You will have to compensate with more volume of fire, but its a .22. You can easily pump out 10-15 rounds in seconds.
@@oldscratch3535 One thing I forgot to mention - we have a LOT of .22 air rifles that we use for small game. Good for birds and rabbits, ammo is very light to carry and a decent, old fashioned spring gun can last for decades with minimal maintenance. It's an often overlooked tool but they can be *incredibly* quiet if you tweak them a little bit. Won't do much to a person but good for filling the pot with minimal traces of your presence.
A good .22 air rifle can take a 400 pound hog with a brain shot inside of 25 yards. Ammo is dirt cheap. You can even cast your own ammo. An old car battery can be processed. The acid can be refined and used in the production of smokeless powder.
.308 is the best overall choice for any situation in any environment in my opinion. Most people are used to thinking in the outdated Vietnam war way of thinking. That being 5.56 is the best overall caliber. This can be detrimental to their survival. Let me preface, that 5.56 can and will work. However, .308 is the best do all SHTF cartridge because the pros far outweigh the cons. We also have to acknowledge and understand what the enemy is. Bunch of fat dudes with 5.56 rifles and armor.
The pros: Better accuracy, better knock down, farther effective range, better incompacitation abilities (even if i hit armor, i have a good chance at breaking ribs), better cover penetration, less susceptible to adverse weather, better versatility (i can still go SBR and retain far better energy on target, i can .300blk ammo, 30-06 ammo to reload, and i can even go subsonic with a bolt action and get great effect on target), easier to supress, and i can take larger game with 1 decent shot instead of multiple shots or 1 perfect shot.
Cons: weighs more.
We are fighting fat dudes with 5.56 rifles wearing armor in SHTF. That means they will be running and falling to cover. With a .308, you have them far out gunned. That brick wall they are behind at 500 yards, is no match for a 180gr .308. But for a 77gr 5.56... good luck. Also, if i land 1 shot on you with a .308, your going down. You can land 3 shots of 5.56 on me and i keep fighting. Also, if i hit you in plates with a .308, i have a chance to break ribs, incompaciting you or slowing you down enough to land 1 shot on you. If we are engaged in a fight in the pouring rain with 20mph wind at 300yrds, good luck with 5.56. My .308 will out perform that 5.56 every time. If we have the same amount of training and i have a .308 vs your 5.56, you'll feel out gunned and your will to fight will go down the toilet once big heavy .308 rounds start eating your brick wall away.
The nice thing about living rural, and 'bugging in', is that you can easily have more than one rifle onhand.
Opinion before watching video: 5.56. More ammo available, lighter to carry, can arguably hunt a wider range of game with it(308 might ruin the insides of smaller game; larger game can be taken with 5.56 even though it might not be ethical to let an animal bleed out, then again, I don't hunt).
no ethics in survival situation
Ethical hunting is not something you care about when hungry
you can still shoot 308 subsonic through a semi auto, though youll have to manually cycle it. If you reload you can custom tailor rounds for taking medium to what is considered a small game.
Standard 5.56 will also tear up rabbits and such
I’m not sure what you call small game, but I’ll tell you that in my experience taking small game with a 5.56 is not a realistic idea. I’ve seen many a groundhog burst apart with a 5.56. The smallest game you might take without seriously harming your meat harvest is a large jackrabbit. There wouldn’t be much left of a cottontail or a squirrel. And on the larger side, you can take elk and even moose with proper shot placement with a .308.
Seeing that XCR-M just makes the wait for mine harder. I think he nailed it. 308 for staying place and 5.56 for bugging out. I know the round capacity is much less but a solid 12 gauge in pump or semi auto are great choices. They can make quick work in short range urban areas and can reach out to 100 yards or so with slugs. My 18 in. barrel 870 with a rifled choke and 1oz. slug is surprisingly accurate at 100 yards.
I have both plus. My immediate go to is 5.56, I live in the suburbs so mostly urban issues. However, bug out situation both would come with me.
I have both 5.56 and .308 as well as .300 AAC all scoped with the .308 set for long range. I also live a mile from the Dare to Care food bank distribution center, and having volunteered there I know they have several years worth of food there and that would be my first destination to secure for myself and my family.
308 for me. Being in Alaska I need the larger round for obvious reasons. If I had to choose one round though it’d probably be 7mm rem mag considering the grain range I can use.
My first ar which was fairly recent I went with a308 savage AR10 with 16in barrel and a 1x12 scope. I did that with the same one gun shtf mindset and or if I only could buy one for now mindset. It small enough for cqb self defense but large enough to hunt deer out to a few hundred yards. Sense then iv also aquired a ar-15 in 300blk with a 8 ½ inch barrel and a stubby 2x10 scope it's a semi frankenstein with a Anderson lower and the upper from a manufacturer out of Texas. It's good out to 300 max for deer but perfect for lessor ranges especially food plots and under 200 not to mention self defense in house down the steps across the yard and down the street. Yes my state let's you finish the fight so they can't circle around on you.
I own three AR-15s a L1A1 and a M1A along with my M-1 Garand. My plan is to avoid contact at all cost there is no medical personnel or medivac chooper coming for you. 5.56X45 and an AR-15 is best for on the move if I'm defending from a fixed poison the 308 is great depending of your fields of fire and terrain.
You set the premise that each of us is confined to one SHTF gun. I'm sure like yourself your viewers have more than one.
All valid points, I would say what ever is used, really know the rounds ballistics, and be able to apply the fundamentals of markmenship. I have worked with people who can not place rounds out past 300 yards whether it's a 300 win mag, or 5.56. I would also mention, there are also those who bring home elk with a bow. My go to for my current situation is the AR platform in .223/5.56, with a scoped, 20" barrel. As brought in the video, the small caliber does it's best with velocity, and I love to be able to pin point the hits. For myself, I would see security as more of an issue, than hunting game, but I should be able to do both. As always a fun topic, thank you for sharing.
Daytime SHTF: My Galil Ace 762 NATO Rifle
Night time SHTF: Galil Ace 556 Pistol.
Swap out an OSS 762 QD Suppressor for both.
im a firm believer every cartridge has its day(has a situation where it outshines others) for me short or mid distance 16" 5.56, home defense 300 blackout pistol, longer range .224 valkyrie 20", dropping food at 100 yards .458 socom 18". in my eyes the question is prefernce and how soft of recoil you want. ar platforms have so many cartridges to choose from and as long as you have a lower you can have multiple uppers. gonna go hunting slap on the longer barrel, going to a range where its 100-300 yards throw on a shorter barrel. wanna try youre hand at long range slap on the 20+" barrel. every catridge has that one round that out performs others in a given situation just have the patience to do the research and experimenting.
Have u ever looked at 6.5grendel? It kinda has the best of 308 and 556
@@justinlance4174 i have im actually in the process of pricing out to build an upper round 14-16 inch, piston though. hear alot of great things from hunters and long range shooters on the cartridge. i really like the 224 i built. taken it out to 1000 yrds. hits it easy. so i think the grendel might be able to hit 1000 with a 16 inch.
@@adamschebler8865 I have a chrome lined saber upper in 6.5grendel. It's my favorite ar15 chambering and favorite length.
We have a 5.56 for the wife and a .308 for me, each intended to be our respective SHTF battle rifle.
When we have to hunt to survive, I'll use either my .308 or my 12ga. We have a .22 for small game.
Same here. Good luck
@@Andy-kw2zm Simply that I prefer .308 and my wife handles a 5.56 lot better. If she could do .308 better we'd both be shooting one.
.223 with a .22lr conversion. Best balance between need of force and use for hunting, a 22lr with suppressor could keep You less easy to find, good for hunting small game. And if You need to hunt something bigger just take out the conversion and shoot .223.
your better off the a 22 upper like the bear creek, 22 conversion kits are not know for reliability and have issue with ammo
@@djjaysky9071 Ok, but that will be much heavier if have booth. If You are satisfied with only the .22 lr, then a Ruger 10/22 Takedown will be better, or a AR15 in .223 and a good .22lr pistol suppressed and some kind of 1-4x20 scope for the small game a 5-6inch barrel. But this instead, a suppressed lever action in .357 for big game, .38spc for quiet work, a .357 4 inch revolver.
I'd always rather carry two separate guns if one of them is dedicated small game. A tiny little single shot break down 22 is barely a few pounds and the main goal is food. The AR or AK should be taken anyways for protection. If you're out shooting small game and a group of 2-3 people decide you're a target, might not have the time to do a quick conversation back to 223/5.56 but much quicker to just drop the 22 and grab the AR to defend yourself.
Actually my CMMG conversion has been 100% reliable through two thousand rounds with a wide variety of ammo. It’s handy to have but I still prefer a 10/22.
I have one of each. 1000 rounds for each. Few spare parts here and there. Both from PSA just awesome and reliable stuff. For stopping power 308 all day. For hunting 308 all day although I’ve used both.. The AR 10 is the go to honestly but if I need to throw rounds down range rapidfire or going on a long haul journey by foot and I know I can only bring one thing with me and I’m not going back maybe the A.R. 15. The end of the day it’s really preference. People talk about parts availability after the world ends or ammunition but guess what if parts are that available it’s because you’re taking other rifles off of dead people or just finding entire rifles, randomly in vehicles, or houses or what not. Point is I don’t think parts necessity is an issue. My AR 10 breaks down, or I run out of ammo than A.R. 15‘s will be so available I could find one along with ammo
My Dad was on the all Army Rifle team when he went to Vietnam the first time. He took an M14 because he had several issues with the M16. Not all the battles were short range; there were many times that they were engaged across rice paddies and the M16 was not as effective as the AK47 at longer range. His Battalion commander asked him to give up the M14, which he did. In the final analysis, most of the young men serving had not shot before and the army training was basically familiarization training. The M16 shoots better than most people can hold. Between the way the Army fights and the technology, any circumstance that requires longer than 100 yards is going to be solved with snipers or other support. In my collection, I have a "'03", M1, M1A, AR15. I have an AK47 as well. When I moved from the M1A to the AR15, I thought (and I still do) that there was something in the middle that might be a better choice i.e. like the AK, but more accurate. I haven't bought a 6.5 yet, but I thought in that area would be a better all around gun. That said, I like the 3006 for cartridge versatility. I hand load and I have done from 120 grain all the way up to 220 grain in the '06. When you try to pick an all around, it's like the EDC black hole. Anyway, I don't think anyone was better suited to make a recommendation than COL Cooper and he picked the 308 for his scout rifle....
"Anyway, I don't think anyone was better suited to make a recommendation than COL Cooper"
Why do you think this? With all respect and deferance to Mr. Cooper, there are thousands of former E3's running around with far more combat experience than Mr. Cooper.
Ur lyin
A good middle ground between the M1a and the AR platform might be a Galil Ace. They make them in 5.56, 308, and 7.62x39. Very manageable rifle with very little recoil and good accuracy
Great video Tim, my situation is similar to yours. We prep regularly and plan to bug in, however we do have a bugout as well. If I could only take one it would likely have to be 308, however I have a couple go-to rifles in both calibers. Like you said, it truly is very specific to your exact scenario. I know I need to hunt, but I often bow hunt. My favorite 308s would be the Scar and FAL. My favorite 5.56s for SHTF would likely be Daniel Defense. I like an SBR in 5.56, I stick to around 10.5" barrels but you are correct that I'm losing capability of the caliber running that short barrel. If I could only have one 5.56 I'd have a long barrel, no doubt.
I exclusively run 7.62x39, it's still an intermediate cartridge in 30.cal and it's been taking down bucks, hogs, and people for many many years, and even though I personally run AK's, I'm still a strong believer that the SKS suppressed is the ultimate SHFT gun.
I responded to your post in agreement, and youtube took down the comment 😂 can't talk about anything these days.
About effectiveness: Can you make a Video about .308 and 5.56 in balistic Gel @ 100 Yards?
That would be enlightening.
556 is the overall better choice, if one had to be picked for the average American, even when I love my Tavor 7. Most of us are living in more urban/suburban areas compared to Tim, who lives out in the country. 556 ball typically does more tissue damage when in effective range compared to 308 ball. When the range starts to extend, yes, 308 is the better option but for a vast majority of people in America, the range is within 100-200 yards.
Well put appreciate it
Disagree. Environment is probably the most important factor. But if your slinging 147gr .308 at 2700fts your doing far more damage than any 5.56
we run strictly AR platforms! We have a DPMS 18" heavy barrel for reaching out. We (Wifey & I) can reach out 500 yds easily with it! Also have an older, but very reliable Bushmaster 16" barrel! For around the homestead close we each carry PSA AR pistols. If we would happen need that bigger, long range cartridge, I could pull out the Tikka T3 in 300WSM. rounds are fewer, but it is extremely accurate! Our plans, along with our tribe, is to avoid any confrontations when possible and for those times when you can't, use extreme prejudice! As always, thanks for sharing! Value your opinions tremendously!
I've never understood why when this topic arms/shtf is discussed, people talk as if they are going to be in multiple prolonged fire fights. They don't say that directly using those words but the ideas they present of 2000rds of this ammo, replacement parts, gear up the wazzoo. No one can predict what any scenario will look like or how it will play out. You are statistically lucky if you survived more than one encounter unless you had/have serious experience or training i.e. military. More than likely someone smarter is going to pop a shot when you are not ready for it, kill you, and simply walk up and take your gear. All variables of which there a millions change with your health, experience, location, season, duration of event, etc. Is one caliber better.....whichever you have on hand when needed will be the best there is.
All valid points. “Whichever you have on hand when needed will be the best there is.” That’s kind of the point of the video. Having a .308 or 5.56 in hand will be vastly superior than a 9mm pistol. Whichever your statistical rate of survivability, nobody who plans thinks, “well, I probably won’t survive anyways, so I guess I don’t need much gear.” The better your preparedness, the greater your rate of survivability. Get a group, get a spot, and gear up to the best of your abilities. I think this all comes down to “better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it,” and that is regarding gear, food, land, weapons, and ammo.
I agree, but it's a good problem to have, right? Our best outcome is that it remains a hobby.
IF IT DOESN'T, 5.56 AR-15, 300 BLACKOUT AR PISTOL, AR-10, AMMO CANS UPON AMMO CANS!!! NOW WHERE DID I PUT MY CHEST RIG?!!!
@@patmaloney1140 LOL, that’s awesome and you are absolutely right. I agree, let’s hope this just stays an interesting “what if” topic to discuss with fellow enthusiasts.
My city dwellers stick with 556....11.5-16 inch red dot and mag, 62-77 grain ammo... Side arms really think about something hammer fired in the event u lose control on the weapon the majority of ppl now are clueless on hammer firing systems ...also a backup Glock dbl stack 9mm...and always try to avoid fire fights if possible.
We need 7.62 x 39 added into this discussion as well.
Thats what i will use.
Nah
@@zack9912000 when?
Agreed 😁👍. How about the 300 Blkout?
5.45 is good for longer range in a ak
Some time ago you posted a video with watermelons comparing 20” and 14” ARs in 5.56. That convinced me to get a 20” (which I was more partial to anyways for nostalgic reasons). Now I’m quite happy I did. It definitely carries more energy at longer ranges and if I need something shorter I’d go 7.62x39. But that 20” AR will punch through Level III plates at close range just out of sheer velocity with 55 gr projectiles
Good video. I would go with a lighter fighting AR10 if I had to pick one primary. Especially for someone that might be in a more unlucky urban situation that plans to bug out at some point. Or just do suppressed 300BLK if youre in an apartment jungle. (No PCCs ever)
For SHTF what is way more likely then Hollywood style gunfights is sickness, starvation and dying to the elements due to lack of survival skills/knowledge for sure but that’s boring to talk about lol. I think your point of a hunting caliber is really important here and something shockingly few ppl think about. I’d rather have a heavier cartridge. An AR is good to have for sure but if I HAD to have one “long gun” id look for a light-ish 308 bolt gun I think, good for most things and simple. I’d want an AR close by, at the house/in my vehicle but living rurally like I do a 30 cal rifle, preferably one that’s simple so if I had to I can work on it like a bolt gun or even a lever gun makes more sense to pack around with. Good points in this vid, happy new year everyone!
I don't want to be hit by either. Great Video
I Run a 20" 5.56 Sig M400 Tread.. with a Vortex Spitfire 3x. And just picked up a 3lb drop in trigger and I am Very Satisfied with the Set Up"...
Given you're only going to have a semi auto why wouldn't you have a .308? I'd say that a .308 bullpup with a 20" barrel and a silencer would be the perfect balance of compactness, accuracy and power.
I’m a poor. 16” 556 lol
Ideally, your group would have both, because both have advantages and disadvantages, and bring different capabilities. If I had to pick just one, it would be 5.56, for the following reasons. First, most defensive gun use is going to be close. Clearing structures with a 7.62mm battle rifle is difficult, not only because they tend to be longer and heavier than their intermediate counterparts, but because they are also much more concussive and disorienting when fired indoors. A 5.56 is going to be plenty loud indoors, but a 7.62 is going to be much more so. A 7.62 with a relatively short barrel and a brake will blast dust off the walls and be like discharging a flash bang grenade in front of your face. Expecting to remain aware of your surroundings and communicate with others in your group becomes impossible. Secondly, the amount of ammo that can be carried matters more than the relative power of each round when discussing high velocity rifle cartridges. Both should be expected to be fairly effective but neither is a guaranteed one shot stop. The 5.56 allows you to score multiple hits faster, and also allows you to suppress more. In a SHTF situation, without rule of law, you are going to need to suppress targets in order to move. The 5.56 allows you to carry more opportunities to save your life and allows you to maintain your mobility better. Most ammo in modern combat is expended suppressing objectives so that you can move, either advancing on the enemy or breaking contact and withdrawing. Mobility is your greatest asset. Allowing yourself to lose the initiative and be pinned down is suicide. Patton said defensive positions are a testament to man's stupidity. The more ammo you can carry, the more you can move. The more you can move, the longer you live. It is that simple. And the 5.56 is not to be underestimated. Even at 500 or 600 yards, from a 16+ inch barrel, you're still talking about a 600 degree piece of metal tearing through your chest at 1.5x the speed of sound. Imagine heating a screwdriver to 600 degrees with a blowtorch, and then having the screwdriver rammed into your chest. That is how "ineffective" a 5.56 is at 500 yards.
@kevin pierson Not really "too." The 7.62 NATO is arguably as effective at 1000 yards as the 5.56 is at 500 yards. The problem is that you reach diminishing returns. The probability that you will be decisively engaged, that is, you must fight back and can not simply egress, decreases exponentially as range increases. So sacrificing speed and volume of fire up close where the majority of engagements are by going with a battle rifle chambered in a full power rifle round to gain what quickly becomes a largely theoretical advantage in range doesn't make sense for most of us.
That being said, some standoff distance and the ability to engage point targets beyond the practical effective range of the enemy is a useful capability to have. So if I was part of a group, say fire team sized, and there was already three or four 5.56mm carbines in the group, I could see having a couple 7.62s in the group, just to diversify capabilities. A 16 in AR10 with a LPVO and an 18 to 20 in AR10 as a DMR would be useful to have, they are just more specialized, and thus, not worth planning an entire group around.
I have a 20 in Aero Precision M5 with a Primary Arms Glx 2.5-10x44 Griffin mil dialed in with Hornady 178 gr ELDXs that will do amazing things well past the range of any 5.56. She is just heavy and cumbersome, and not my first pick for an all-around Thunderdome rifle for that reason.
Good video, good points. Avoidance of confrontation is the best survival strategy. This is something that needs to be emphasized more in other videos.
I couldn't agree more with this. If possible one person in my family will have an AR 15 (20yo son or wife) and I will be running the AR 10. But if I had to choose just one then it would depend on where I was headed and what kind of game is around
Truth. The younger kids (9/10) are proficient w the AR .22lr which would be very useful in survival situations/small game. I also have a few pistol caliber carbines to throw in mix of what I want in a shtf situation
You have gave the best S.H.T.F. comment that I've heard in 3 years. Thanks for the commonsense approach.
I think it really depends on your environment and what SHTF you’re expecting.
I have several 5.56mm rifles, and a 7.62x54R, and a 6.5 Creedmoor. I live 'in town', so other than our EDC handguns, the 5.56 works for our area. If I bug out, I have longer range options.
I live in a town with a lot of small highways running through it. There's a lot of small residential areas interspersed between wide roads, and shopping centers and gas stations.
For me, I think my 18.6" barreled X-95 would work best, once I get an LPVO on it. I'd be able to reach out the 100-200 yds to take out a threat across a road or parking lot, but still have a viable rifle for any kind of close in work I might need to do in the residential areas.
308 for a DMR, 556 for self defense.
Binaries in both.
Alternatively 6.5 creedmoor for DMR and 6.5 Grendal for self defense.
Binaries in both.
Not a fan of binary triggers. Have seen many instances where "binary" mode ended up with a dead trigger. It's also more complicated with more things to break...not good for shtf.
A binary trigger will be a waste of ammo, in a time when ammo is scarce.
Agreed with your logic, I've added the m1a a heavier 22 inch BBL synthetic stock, great in wolf County Idaho!
Keep up the good work.
Ps I'm using 10 rd mags.
If 6.5 Grendel was more common, it would be my choice overall.
Lightweight rounds, AR15 sized weapons, more devastating than 5.56, and equal or longer range than .308.
Win win win.
I live in North Georgia. A suppressed eight inch barreled AR loaded with Federal 123 grain supersonic copper hollow points is my go to for deer hunting and personal defense. It’s taken a few deer cleanly. I never get a shot over 150 yards.
I’m curious to see how the new 6.8x51 sig is making would stack up in here. Considering you are able to stash enough ammo
I feel like the 6.8x51 will be what the .40 cal was to the 9mm..it was supposed to be new and improved, but after many years everyone is switching back
I have both. In pistols and rifles. 12" to 24" in 308. 12" to 20" in 556.
I still think 6.5 Grendel cuts the best balance. But that's probably just me. I'm fortunate to have 5k+ rounds on hand for it, and devices from 11" to 26.5" that utilize it. Uses the same BDC as 556/308, so that's helpful.
Nice presentation.
Something a surprising amount of people dont seem to understand. There is a difference in making hits on a target and an effective game cartridge. I can make hits all day long at 500 plus on a steel target with .556. However, the energy for doing the damage needed to take game is not dependable. Military effective range is creating a wound in your enemy. Game taking effective range is being able to take an animal cleanly. The velocity loss is substantial for .556 especially out of the shorter bbl. Read up on this with these thoughts to become your own expert. This man is spot on with this video. Good job.
Still, with heavy for caliber bullets 5.56 has no problem retaining energy and penetration out to 200-300 yards for hunting. An AR also allows for quick follow up shots. Hunting ethics are less of a concern in a shtf scenario.
Thoughts on effective game distances on 300 blackout? The quick search i just did showed like 480 yards, but did not define which effective range limit.
@@borkwoof696 Agreed; in many worol/survival scenarios, lots of ethical standards mean little; and when it's it's live or die...
@@borkwoof696 actually it becomes more important during a shtf scenario.
The goal good times or bad is to drop the animal as fast as possible. If you wound the animal now you have to track and recover it putting you at greater risk of being spotted by people who would do you harm.
The reality is in a shtf scenario you shouldn't be using your firearm to hunt. You should learn how to make snares, bow hunt, leg hold traps and other silent hunting methods that don't tell others you are there. Save the ammo for defensive or offensive rolls even if using a suppressor it still makes a fair bit of sound. 300bo subsonic is pretty quiet but now you've reduced your effective range considerably., same for 22lr.
Learn hunting skills that don't use firearms, they will serve you far better specially if it's a long term shtf scenario as ammo gets harder to procure.
Tim that's some good point. Now, FAL, AR-10, M1A, decisions, decisions, decisions. I'll go AR now, but don't ask later.
I wouldn't limit myself to one caliber. That would be analogous to having a tool box with one tool in it.
True but in BO situation two is simply too heavy…. Thats why having likeminded friends to have both on hand as a BO group is probably the best option.
@@JACKSONLEWISOFCANADA I live in the sticks, so what I leave my property with would be what I might expect to run into. Most people probably aren't going to be on foot unless they dismount. In my vehicle I will have a side arm, truck gun, and a long riffle. I would bow hunt for large game, and use a pellet rifle for small game as to not draw attention from afar. Everyone out here in rural areas tend to look out for one another. It will be a lot worse for city folk.
I and most of the people I know have plenty of both! All of my AR15 and AR10 barrels are a minimum of 18 inches to 22 inches.
Hi Tim, what do you think about overbarrel silencers? I think i never saw one in your content. Love your content 👍 Grogu is watching you 😁 .556 and .308 both are great cartridges, my use depends on the goal i have
I’ve got an 18” DdM4V7 pro. Velocity is certainly why I got those all important 2”.
For close in a Tavor X95 is hard to beat. Even smaller then a Mrk18.
I’m currently looking into a bigger caliber for game. Might go old school 30.06, but also contemplating the 6.5 Creedmoor.
There is no "best" for SHTF. It highly depends on the type of SHTF. The "best" is to have many different calibers and pick the one according to the situation. Honestly - you won't leave your house in SHTF unless you have to. So, this way the "best" is relative as you can choose and hold more guns. When you have to leave with your family you also don't have to choose - each member can carry something....then it depends if you are leaving in a car or on foot...
If I had to choose between those two I would go for 556 because weight of ammo and because .308 doesn't outperform 5.56 in killing capability that much.
But, I don't really like these comparisons as they are very relative and you can never include every "if".
For example - If I was forced to leave alone into the wild with no way back having just one main and one sidearm weapon my pick would be most likely 9mm pistol and long .22lr semiauto (eg. Ruger 10/22).
Why?
1) I can carry like 300+ rounds of .22lr per 1 kg
2) .22 "no recoil" fast accurate bullet placement is hell of a suppresing fire for anything and it WILL stop coming towards you (you can still carry 3 times more ammo/kg than e.g. 5.56 remember? :-) ) That gives you chance to withdraw because...
....3) In SHTF I don't want to get involved into any firefight. Even stupid scratch from underestimated .22 can kill me later...And if somebody engage first it will be for sure in position when I won't have any chance to react (so my caliber won't matter). If he misses and I get the chance to hide and reengage - I'll pick the new place and time where my 9mm pistol would be enough (I wouldn't start a distance firefight even with 5.56=waste of precious ammo). When I am spotted in open area I can have even 50 BMG in my hands yet I am still done for good anyway...
4) In my area there will be bigger chance to bump into a small game animals and I won't turn it into pieces with the .22
5) .22 with silencer is quiet AF (the Mossad could refer :-))
6) .22 is still lethal round no matter what kind of shit was written about it around the internet.....
...and so on...
IMHO
Agree on the .22LR and even have AR .22 I teach the kids on. And grabbing 500 rd cci bricks are easier than ammo can after ammo can. Great points.
Happy New Year!
My primary arms are .308 rifles with 16.25", 18", and 22" barrels. My secondary arms are .223 rifles with 16" and 18" barrels. I also have 16" .22 Magnum rifles. All of them have suppressors.
556 is the way to go. More ammunition for less weight and will do everything the .308 will do within typical combat ranges
Yeah it's deffinantly ideal in most cases just hard finding it in some areas. Lol people in my area are going to be slinging 3006 and 3030 if they get into fights with each other.
@@thekalamazookid4481 if I hear a 30-06 I'm running 😂 probably die tired though.
@@dunno6442 bro same
To cover my bases I split the difference and went with a 6.5 Grendel. Fortunately I stocked up on ammo before Covid. I still have the other calibers but this is my go anywhere do anything rifle.
I am 60 years old and no longer a high-speed, low-drag gunslinger.
I also live in rural N Louisiana and I am not bugging out period regardless of what happens it's not a realistic option for me, I have prepared and fortified my homestead as well as I can. My mentality is other than hunting I hope I never have to use any weapon because if your option left is a gunfight you are in a real bad situation, folks don't realize how easy we can be killed and I don't give a damn how badass you think your gun and you are your still an easy target. Lol if you're honest, you should know that in reality, 99% of us can't even defend our own home on any given day against even halfway trained multiple adversary's most 556/223 ammo and above calibers will penetrate through your home exterior walls and windows. Lol unless you have beaucoup family members that are trained living in your home or you live in a shoebox there is no damn way you can defend your home. I know this is going butt hurt some egos. Lol
@@markrobbins1018 I’m in the same boat! I’m 63 and the thought of rucking up and walking into the wilderness is not a happy thing. I have prepared my house as best as I can and my wife and I will most likely stay home and hunker down. If the scenario allows for it, we may pack up and drive to my son’s place in Idaho. That of course, is very dependent on the situation.
I’m of the mindset of having enough supplies without having too many different calibers. So .22lr great for my son to plink and grab small game with also feeds a 10/22 and a pistol. An Rifle that shoots 5.56 and .223 exponentially increases the ammo you can shoot. A 9mm for the pistol and carbine does double duty. And now the same applies to the .308- it feeds my hunting rifle and (if I had one ) an ar ten. You can hit North American game easily over 100 yards and if you happen to need more bang for your buck magpul makes a 50 round drum for .308, among others ( if you live in a free red state). Plus a 12 gauge.
So 5 (6 if you count .223 with 5.56) rounds that you need to stockpile. Nothing exotic. Nothing too expensive. And all are available at most sporting good stores. Even during the pandemic these were easier to find than some others.
.556 cause I have a boatload of it, but my .308 pistol is what really makes the difference in SHTF, no cover and has more range (even with loss of velocity from 10 inch barrel)
10" 308? God bless u
InRangeTV made a test and determined that .308 with a barrel less than 12 inches has the same energy as 7,62x39 with the same barrel length. After that, .308 is better.
@@carabinapacifista5627 yeah but its 762X39, even the russians hate that crap, I have a AK but not a fan, besides its a nice handy option and the muzzle break (diverter) makes it easy to shoot.
@@gunsandcars3648 yeah, but it comes down to what I just said. 16" AKs are obsolete, but I still recommend having a longer barrel with .308 than 10", but you do your money.
Being I live in the city, I opted for a shorter barrel for CQC and moving about street to street, bldg to bldg, with at least a 10 inch barrel in my pack for slightly further engagements of 200 yards or better, as far as a bug out location to my families property about a hour and half drive north of here, with plenty of water and the use of his barn for shelter, I could make some fairly close shots on deer and other suitable animals for protein.
Until now, the portuguese military and police where using 308 g3s, also 308 is more popular here because of hunting. The 308 caliber is better for shtf here in portugal land. But the army and some police forces are switching for 556. I have a 556 but i am not counting on salvaging ammo, should something happens. And being a small country mobility is very important. The ability to escape is better then the ability to fight.
Encontrar o seu comentário aqui é obra, andamos a seguir os mesmos yankis:)
@@hamradio2930 e eles também respeitam muito aquilo que escrevemos, às vezes mais do que os comentários doa próprios americanos. Porque para eles, tal como para nós, o gosto pela armas é global. Já aprendi mais sobre as armas portuguesas em vídeos dos youtubers americanos do que com qualquer media português. E eu sei por experiência própria que os nossos comentários têm eco. Os Polenar Tactical fizeram um review da SDM AK-103 porque lhes pedi. Nunca fiquei a perder com um comentário nestes canais de guntubing, só vejo motivos para continuar. E aconselho todos a fazê-lo.
@@canal10centrado eu na curiosidade já adicionei uns poucos deles conhecidos, desde o Demolition Ranch, o Herrera, este senhor, o Donut operator, entre outros.... aprende-se imenso e até dá para dar umas boas gargalhadas. É vergonhoso que não tenhamos uma pista de tiro aberta a civis para fazer tiro a mais de 100m em PT, depois empurram as pessoas para a ilegalidade, que é bem pior. Só em PT é que falar de armas é grande tabu, criado por pessoas fracas no espectro politico com medo que o cidadão comum possa expandir os seus conhecimentos balísticos. E mais uma vez, prazer em encontrá-lo.
I’m partial to the 6mm ARC. I just built one with a 16 inch barrel. I’ve only run 100 rounds or so, but I love it.
I know this is gonna sound crazy, but if I could only take ONE of my guns for a SHTF situation, I’d take my Scorpion Evo S3. Only because I have a feeling that when I’m scavenging for ammo, I’m gonna find 9mm more than anything else.
My thought exactly, mine is a Ruger PC charger but same principal. You are your own logistics and having just one caliber helps like the old west mindset
Yup but this is where the glock on a stock becomes more advantages simple it's way lighter smaller way easier to concil and let's b honest here with new 9mm like fort scotts 80g going through soft lvl 3 body armor past 50 yards and killing a black bear at more then 80 my set up if I need to go light is glock stock and then if I need an actual rifle I pick up my ruger sfar in 308 and ways 6.8 lbs 16inch same size and weight as my ar15 and for under a k y the f would I chose something less effective and with the break and the bcg beings the same size as a standard ar15 size bolt and gas vent holes it shoots almost as soft as my 556 so again y I'm not gonna lie I might as well sell the 15 when it comes down to it u can always pick up the rounds and the gun if the round don't fit yours so I'm not sure where all the fuss is about anyway and anything tht hits u in a time where u can't seak medical attention even a small cut from a thron will kill u just the 2 cents I'm throwing in
Something I never seem to hear anyone talk about is the fact that full-auto sucks if you don't have the supply train to support it.
The civilian application for any firearm will necessarily be semi-automatic, just out of simple and practical realities.
I could make an argument for either 5.58 or 7.62 and in time of need would be glad to have either one. I just think that before even having that discussion, people should get some delusions out of their heads about what a SHTF situation would actually be like.
I love my Vepr 308 with 20" barrel. It shoots any load you can find. Its a shame that we cant get these in the country anymore.
In my situation living in Tasmania, my options are somewhat different. I have a Browning (Miroku) BL-22 (S/L/LR), a CZ 455 in a MDT chassis with Mag-Pull grip and stock (SHTF survival kit stored in the buffer tube, battery storage slots, and grip) with the 22WMR sporting barrel and a Wraith DNV scope, and a third option of my 1974 built Marlin 336 in 30-30.
My most likely survival rifle is the CZ, given most of my game options in my local area are the plethora of wallabies ( multiple different species ranging up to around 60kg 1.2m high, though the Forester can get to around 100kg and 1.8m high, in the north of my island), possums ( 8-10kg), and the increasing number of fallow deer.
I probably would switch out the DNV scope for one of the several red dots in my collection which have much longer battery life.
Tasmania has been put on the list of the 5 best places in the world to survive a total collapse of modern life.
I have an electric car, which I charge off solar panels on my roof, and can reuse the stored electric power in my house. I have a 17 year old Mitsubishi 4x4 Fuso Canter truck with a all steel bodied slide on camper( built it myself, and acts like a Faraday Cage), and can run on locally made biofuels.
I collect rainwater in three 25,000l ( 6,000 us gal) tanks, grow most of my food already.
I think I’m gunna be ok.
No "one-gun solution" for everything, but a good thought experiment for sure. Thinking about one's own situation, terrain and likely encounters is better than blindly going along with common thought. Still for me, I have multiples for different intended purposes and any of them can be pressed into other roles as needed.
Happy New Year, Tim and all of the MAC crew and family!
I think it comes down to requirements and versatility. A 20” 5.56 gun is effective with cheap FMJ out to ranges you can’t reliably hit with iron sights. A
I went with a fn collectors m16 to be able to shoot 55 grn ammo to its full potential
I went with a 20" Kel Tec RDB that is roughly the same oal of a 14.5 m4 for that very reason
A 16" inch carbine has roughly the same terminal performance with M193 as a 20" out to 200 or so. A 16" gun covers the most ground as to ease of carry and general performance. Below 16" you start cutting off performance drastically. I carried a musket. Yes it performs very well. But I wouldn't choose it over a good 16". Or see a need to.
@@DutchK75 agreed, that’s why my GP carbine is a light profile 16” barrel. 6.3# with loaded pmag. DD barrel, centurion mlok hand guard. Scalar irons. Sweet little setup
@@G5Hohn Yep. I have 2 BCM's with the mcmr and mk2 upper with the pencil barrel. I'm not the biggest mcmr fan. It has flex. But they are light.
I do not think it is an either or option as you need a hunting round and defensive round. My daughter does not like the weight of my FN/FAL, but she has no issues with an AR15. Would she deer hunt with an AR? Of course not. Her first deer was with the FN/FAL.
308 to diminish the courage of those that wear body armor.
I'm older. Born in the 1900s. My first gun after .22 rf was an 8mm Mauser. And that's what I thought rifles felt like to shoot. Then I bought an SKS. And was like HFS this thing is a puppy. Sweet no recoil. When I got my first AR I thought it was a joke. No way would I ever take an animal with it bigger than a racoon. My point (if I have one) is that it depends what you have been trained on. I own all calibers. But I am very comfortable with my M&P10 .308 as a "walk through the woods" every day gun. I think .556 guns are toys or reserved for cases where you need to be super mobile, i.e. vehicles, jumping out of airlplanes etc.