Why AR10's suck - Ruger SFAR vs. DPMS GII - the original vs. the newcomer.
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We asked our viewers if they would like to see a comparison between the DPMS G2 and the Ruger SFAR. The DPMS GII was the leader in making a short action AR10, but did Ruger go a bit further? We take a look at a number of AR10's including the POF Revolution and talk about the differences.
#DPMS #ruger #sfar
Hop did also point out that he personally knew several others who had no issues with their SFARs, and that he was sure Ruger would fix anything wrong with the one he had.
I feel like there may be some rivalry here! It also seemed like the MAC guys didn’t watch the full review from TFB… Hop did a great job reviewing that rifle given how jacked up it was and disclosed that it was of course a single sample and likely faulty, that all the other samples he was aware of did not have those problems and that Ruger would make it right.
He probably shouldn’t have posted that review until he was able to get another sample, or correct the issues with the one he had
but he’s gotta eat
@@peterwassam Yeah, it's one of those things where its SHOT Show time, all the guntubers are dropping SFAR content, so if TFBTV wanted to get decent views they needed to drop theirs too. By the time Ruger got the gun or the replacement parts shipped to Hop, the hype train would have left the station already.
@@peterwassam no, just bias. If this were a Sig product, and nobodies ran right, MAC would be making excuses for it and telling us to spend another $600 on third party parts to make the $2500-3000 gun work like it should have on day 1.
@@theKashConnoisseurSFAR cane out a while ago, shot show has nothing to do with sudden SFAR reviews
@@1014p Oh so it just so happens that 5 different guntube channels drop SFAR videos the week ShotShow starts?
If gun people really wanted to make anti gun lobbyists confused, just change the name of the ar platform to the sw(safe weapon) platform. Call it the sw15. It's very hard for people to lobby against safe guns.
I see what you are saying and makes some sense. But AR stands for Armalite, which you may already know but the liars in gun control that make propaganda purposefully lie in order to support their agenda and deceive the regular person. They will misslead with anything.
call it the female protection device so it can be labeled a protected species.
The only way is culture war, making the gun as usable as a cell phone became a usable complex computer for bimbos. 1 button and an app that does it all. Of course it has to be safe and somehow automated. Of course the mysoginistic fascist government does not want women and the disabled to get automated firearms.
It's a deadly weapon of war and that's exactly why I own one
That would be a real gotcha, IF these people cared one wit about safety beyond using it as a thinly veiled excuse for victim disarmament.
MAC: “This is my rifle.”
My brain’s response: “This is my gun.”
"There are many like it, but this one is mine!"
I have a SFAR 16" that I got at the end of November '22 for $960 and I am happy to say that it performs flawlessly - much like the first one you showed (without a can - on setting 3). When I saw the TFB video you mentioned where the SFAR failed over and over, I wasn't surprised to also see the gas block issues they pointed out as well. I can hold my hand around the gas block on mine without it getting burned or turning black.
Same here. My SFAR runs like a champ and no burnt hands. I'd call my gun a true MOA rifle. It likes lighter weight ammo better, so I loaded up some nosler 125gr ballistic tips, and it shoots close to the same hole. It shoots the Barnes 110gr TTSX well as well but the noslers take the win.
Yeah they clearly had a malfunctioning rifle, and then not recognizing that makes me doubt they know what they're doing
@@Cokecanninja, Hop from TFBTV specifically said he thought it was just a production flawed, 1-off, Friday afternoon gun.
You didn't watch the video, did you?
@@kingbaldwiniv5409 MACs viewership is definitely on the more tribal side of guntube - so no he didn't watch it fully.
Update, I just finished sighting in my 20” Ruger SFAR. I easily got sub MOA on my groups. The rifle does recoil more than I expected, but nothing too severe. I will gladly accept the little bit of higher recoil for great accuracy. The only thing I’m changing is the charging handle and the muzzle break. I am getting the ASR break so that I can attach my suppressor to it. Overall I’m super pleased with the performance and the price I paid for the rifle. 👍🏼
The SFAR has been absolutely flawless. Remember, it ships with the gas block in setting 3, so no adjustment is needed out of the box. It's an amazing piece of kit.
My 20" " ripped the case rims on setting 3. Changed to 2 and no problems.
I personally think the SFAR could easily be the next and greatest battle rifle. I can't wait to get mine. Also, I want to put one of those curved forend hand stops like Jason had on his rifle whilst you were shooting it.
Buy the POF Rogue instead. It costs a bit more, but is Toyota quality. The Ruger is cheaper, but is not in the same league of quality as the POF. If you keep your weapons long term, you won’t be sorry.
@@robertgoodrich8953 I'm just getting a regular AR and making it in .300 HAMR amd getting an AK.
@@ChargerusPrimeThe .300 HAM'R do be looking based.
@@georgewhitworth9742 it's more powerful than 7.62x39 and uses the same case as 5.56x45 so it'd be very easy to change over to that caliber froma military standpoint.
Does it have any drop tests?
I went with the DD5 as a "no nonsense" .308 AR option a few years back and I absolutely love it. That said, the AR15 sized .308 ARs are so impressive to me as a hunting/Ranch rifle etc. I like where the industry is going with these and I hope more companies hop on board to make them even more durable, reliable, etc.
My dd5v3 stays under1” and made first round impact at 1000 dew wks ago. 16” barrel 178s@2140fps
I've been very happy with my Revolution DI, the DD5 is no joke though. Tack driver
Whats a good one for shtf? I have a badass 556 but I want one in 308.
But DD are statist bootlickera
@@Иванпонимаете-г4ш dd5v3 brother I’ve hand loaded for bout 1.5yr and have everything you can put on 1…1000yrdd with 16” .308
People seem to wonder if the SFAR BCG will survive high round count. I'd like a follow up video at 5k rounds. Thanks !
Please compare the 16" to the 20" SFAR. Not only would it be interesting, but nobody on TH-cam has reviewed the 20" version. I would like to know if the recoil is any lighter with the rifle-length system.
I have the 20" and love it!
It should be lighter. I have the Ruger MPR with a 16" mid length gas system. Think I'd want the 20" SFAR. They should do an 18" version also imo.
Hickok reviewed it
I have a 20. Only 75 rounds through it. I have some friends who are going to beat it up for next couple weeks while I'm working. Told them to run steel, brass, junk through it. Basically treat it like a shitty old ak and see what happens. I'll trying to keep you posted
Also might try PSA's little ks47 withshort barrel. I can't get it to fafail. Just got 16"upper for it. Going to see how that goes 😁. I figure almost still available and cheapish so wat the hell,burn it up.
franken LR308, upper Anderson, bolt Brownells, lower 5D, spring strike flat 308, buffer Noname LR308, barrel 18" BA Hanson .308/7.62 enhanced chamber, handguard Midwest, trigger and lpk CMMG. Totally Frankenstein. But it works so far and yes it's heavy.
I don’t have a whole lot of rounds through my 20” SFAR but so far it won’t lock back with the included pmag or a Magpul drum. It also won’t cycle the drum unless it’s on gas setting 3. Hoping those kinks get worked out with more rounds. I love it though, pretty accurate.
Lube it up real good and run her hard. The problem with that is ammunition cost.
I don't like waiting for 100,200 or 500 rounds to " break in" a firearm. After a small round count you can see the contact/wear points on the moving parts. Careful lapping and polishing will greatly shorten the break in period. A ordinary but quality mineral based oil during break in seems to speed up the breaking in process. After breaking in the weapon I then switch to a more modern/synthetic lube.
Some have issues being under gassed. Sounds like you might have one of them.
I used 2 magpul 50 round drums, had no problems with lock back when the drum was spent. Only had one round jam, I am using Hornaday ammo 168 or better. Might try some other ammo eventually, but am happy with what I am using.
I really like these types of comparison. It's one thing to say, "oh yeah, they tend to have different parts", and another to see them all actually compared.
The Galil is much more durable in 308
i noticed a weird change in the ejection patters on Jason's SFAR towards the back end of the up gassed mag... rounds 13-20 all went different directions from the previous 13 that went pretty much straight backwards
From what we've seen from the SFAR thus far I believe Ruger did an excellent job with this one. I always wait a year or two before purchasing a new firearm just in case there are any issues that need addressed but if all goes well I will likely purchase one.
Whether intentional or not early offerings of new guns render those same users beta testers for the manufacturer, to work out the kinks. So I too will wait a year or more to see if the SFAR will become universally reliable. Time will tell.
Good thinking
Grab it now. Updated gas regulator
I now see why you love the Tavor 7. AR10s are so unstandardized, getting a unique firearm would literally be just like getting any other one. Parts compatibility isn't a thing so doesn't matter as much unlike AR15s.
Great video!
I bought a psa PA-10 and didnt have high expectations but it has been awesome. Perfectly reliable and very accurate. I've put around 1000rds through it so far with zero stoppages.
Same with my PSA 10.
I am going to get a PSA AR 10 in a couple of weeks. Still trying to figure out which barrel to get.
@@piedmontwildlifeandoutdoors Mine has the 20in heavy barrel but I have it set up for longer range target shooting. Recoil is almost nothing and stays on target well but it's a little heavy for carrying around. I've heard good things about the accuracy of the shorter, lighter barrels as well. Don't think you can go wrong.
@@mikepeterson2804 I have the PSA AR 15 and love it. If the world as we know it last till the second week of March then I will own the AR 10. Thanks.
I too have a PA 10 with 18" bbl, put a Magpul PRS Lite stock on it as the collapsable just didn't look right on such a large rifle. I run a Silencer Co Saker 762 on it with the gas setting at 8 clicks open from closed, runs flawless.
Noticed the ejection pattern changed about halfway through the 2nd mag at gas setting 3… it went from ejecting at 4-5 o’clock to ejecting at 2-3 o’clock. Does that mean it was already breaking in, and over gassing? Or just getting hot?
For anyone wanting to nerd out on what makes an ar-10 reliable, Small Arms Solutions goes into specifications, features, brands etc.
Be sure to check your gas rings guys?
I had to get new rings from Ruger, because my rings got chewed up within 100 rounds.
I hopefully can get back out to the range soon to see how the new rings hold up against the original ones that it shipped with.
I will say Ruger's customer service was very courteous, helpful, and insightful. They also got the new rings to me within a week.
Now it is up to me to find the time to test it out again. Wish me luck!
GOOD LUCK, Please keep us informed. T.Y.
Lube your rings
If the bolt uses standard AR15 or AR10 gas rings you could always swap them out for the one piece, flat coil style gas rings. I like running those in all my ARs
I had a PA-10 (Gen 2) that was way over gassed (causing malfunctions). It’s gas’s rings were gone within 250 rounds. It had a one-piece ring with five coils. I have no idea where it was sourced. I replaced it with the conventional rings. It didn’t help. I tried heavier weight springs and buffers to no avail. I probably should have gotten an adjustable gas block, but I was over it.
If the rings are destroyed that fast I would suspect the bolt carrier is causing it, good luck
Interesting to see the dramatic change in the ejection pattern towards the end of the 3rd magazine with the Federal ammo.
I noticed that from 6 to 3 o'clock.
I saw that as well, I wonder if it was heat build up maybe.
I noticed it to It was all over the place..
I recommend the M&P Smith&Wesson AR10 308 if you're in the market for one. Reasonably priced , well built, consistently accurate, and very reliable . I wish I had it with me when I was deployed.
I have one. Consistent light primer strikes. Will take the bcg apart and clean it. If that doesn't fix it, I'll be talking to s&w.
@@matthewblumenthal804 you may want to clean it and get a new firing pin and a spring if it happens to you frequently, check if it happens on the same type of ammo.
@@matthewblumenthal804 Interesting. I’ve only seen one other mention reliability issues but he had no lube on the BCG at all. Mine has been flawless, tbf though I’ve never used steel case ammo
Excellent weapon for the money in my opinion...not had one issue with my s&w AR 10
the navy seals used to call the SR-25 "lightning" because it never hit the same spot twice. that stuck with me.
@@OFFICIALUND Oh boy, that's screwed up, however my rifle is as accurate as any bolt heavy barrel tactical rifle out there!!
I built a 308. I've exhausted everything. It's still not cycling. The system is too dependent on the gas system. And the balance is very important.
lol
@@wannabecarguy have you tried honing the chamber, then polishing. Also try switching to a flatwire spring and polish inside the buffer tube. Then lube.
Mr Stoner and Knights made substantial improvements to the SR25, the military can’t buy it do yo … military idiocy.
Yeah, like I said before, my G2 Recon was a great rifle and accurate as hell. The reason I sold it was exactly because it was no longer parts supportable. I thought the G2 would become the IBM PC for all AR .308 patterns like the original DPMS 1st gen. Nope. It was replaced with a couple of Tavor 7's. Let's not forget the S&W M&P10 which came out around the same time and was billed as the same thing also. I chose the DPMS exactly because of S&W proprietary barrel nut ad such. The G2 was amazing at the time because it felt like an M4 with the weight and slight recoil. I sold a few guys on getting them also, they still hunt with them today.
Which parts did you need to replace?
@@forkthepork eventually all parts will need to be replaced. That's why most of us want to only buy guns that we can also buy replacement parts and have them sitting in a box ready to be used, well before any problem ever happens.
Good luck getting a replacement bolt for some of these proprietary guns like the SFAR for example. I want to buy a second cmmg RDB bolt carrier group just so I have a backup bolt. Which would require me to get another barrel too.
I still remember the hell of trying to get a gas tube for my smith and wesson ar10 after I wrecked the factory one putting on an aftermarket handguard.
Hows your comment from 2 days ago when the video been out for an hour? Just wondering if my phone glitching.
@@lancedooley7558 the matrix
So Tim. What are your thoughts on the POF revolution DI, compared to the SFAR?
Great comparison between 308 AR. And now You know that things are not the same inside.
The sfar is definitely a recreation/hunting rig. I'd love to see an evolution thats more duty use oriented. Not as concerned with weight, staked castle nut and a nicer, sturdier handguard with a top rail and more mlok ( i know the 20" has the full top rail, but imo, a 20" barrel defeats the purpose of the shortened overall package)
100+rds through my SFAR so far and loving it! I'll be back at the Range soon for more rds!
Mine didn't really like gas setting on 2, but was Flawless on 3!
So you could say, it's working well SFAR.... 🤣
😂😂😂😂😂
I just want to say, the camera work during the range session was excellent. 👍
I'll wait for the Ruger SFAR Gen II.
Back when i got into the AR-10 (15 YRS) the top 7 choices were ArmaLite, of course, DPMS, LWRC, Noveske, who used the ArmaLite pattern on some of their rifles as did LWRC, Daniel Defense and Knights Armament and last Rock Rivers...there was two standards, ArmaLite and DPMS...and RR was somewhere in between.
The S&W MP10 has been awesome for me.
Picked up a Sig 716i recently and started building it out. Due to where I live I am stuck with 10 round mags, so going to .308 was more preferable, plus if any cataclysmic event occurred I would be in mostly wooded areas and would likely move north into more mountainous terrain where the .308 rifle would shine. The lightweight nature of these newer .308 rifles is very nice to have as most of the other options are either boutique rifles or legacy battle rifle's that weigh more, have less parts availability, as well as less accuracy.
As useful as 5.56 is, I still feel .308 will be extremely hard to unseat as the most versatile caliber in the US. Sans the urban centers .308 is better for most of the terrain as well as making a potent hunting cartridge and having the legs to reach out to decent ranges. Not to mention how ubiquitous it is as far as availability.
.308 is extremely overlooked and underappreciated from the perspective of practicality for the average American. It will stop a bad guy close, it will stop a bad guy far, it will put food on the table, and it is everywhere.
You live in china??
@@skipmitchell3200 The Rhode Island Communist Party certainly seems real
but that recoil.
I would love to know how long that bolt lasts being that it has thinner walls where the locking lugs are located. That has been my biggest point of concern for this rifle.
Yep, that and the single bolt carrier key.
All of these 15 size AR10s I have the same concern. Plus more confusion on lack of standardization. Keeps me from pulling the trigger on a 450 bush, tho at half the pressure and slightly more rebated rim than 308.
Full size are a handful and overgassed till tuned most of the time. I had luck with a heavy buffer.
This whole design is a bad idea.
Ruger says they have some test SFAR's with over 10,000 rounds through them. Zero failures. That's what they say...I have no proof. 🤷♂️
I have a POF Rogue with about 1K rounds through it and it's ran like a champ the entire time. I have no concerns about the bolt since they use stronger material for the bolt than a standard AR15 bolt. POF also dovetails the carrier key into the carrier and uses a single bolt. I see no problem in that design...the SFAR remains to be seen. I use it for a hunting rifle and it's been a great one. Plenty of power with .308 and as light, or lighter, than many AR15s.
The AR10, given lack of parts compatibility, is just an advanced user platform. I’ve built a few AR10s and 100% had to get hands dirty and wrench on them. Both AR10s have superb accuracy and reliability, but this came at a price figuring out which parts work the hard way. In hindsight I probably could’ve bought a couple JP LRP 07s 😂
I have a JP LRP 07.... don't ever buy a jp it will ruin the ar platform for you. It feels and shoots like a high end tuned 1911 and makes my stags,colts,Springfields,ruger,aero and ect feel like a worn out glock.
@@joetapout I’m all about Gucci guns 😂 a JP or GAP10 is on my list.
The PSA-10 my father has hasn’t ever had any issues, but we haven’t tried to put a ton of rounds through it either.
Thanks for that pointless info bro.
@@Enjoyer.762 Thanks for this pointless response bro 👍
@@idontwanttoputmyname403 It's the appropriate response to your comment.
@@Enjoyer.762 Thanks for that pointless info bro 👍
@@idontwanttoputmyname403 Nah your comment is pointless. You didn't shoot many rounds through your PSA so nothing you posted is informative about the quality and durability of it lol.
I have no worries, I only have one AR 10 that I bought from a gun show seller who built on a PSA AR 10 lower chambered in 6.5 C. All of my other AR rifles I've built from stripped lowers.
Thanks for the comparison and displaying the chaotic array of various AR-10 buffer and bolt systems. I had no idea they were so helter-skelter across the different manufacturers, I would have thought they'd be more standardized like the AR-15 platform. I guess no one has figured out an "open standard" yet that tames the .308 beast.
none of the manufacturer want an "open standard", they were forced to standardize the 5.56 platform bec of military contracts, not customer demand
Suck being a weird word to describe a lack of standardization. That said thanks for doing the video. Looking forward to seeing other reviews and seeing if it makes sense to pick one up.
How else will he get views?
@@RockSolitude this
To be fair, only the last two (Aero and Springfield) were "standard" LR308s. Generally a DPMS pattern LR308 will be interchangeable, however the handguards and uppers may not perfectly match, unless they both come from the same manufacturer (just make sure both are either low or high). When it comes to improved LR308s (i.e. shortening the system), there is no standard because each company has their own patent; I'd be willing to bet companies who make DPMS Gen 2 pattern BCGs/bolts give royalties to DPMS, and the same would hold true if anyone made the short BCG/bolt from Ruger or POF.
Yeah I feel like he should’ve added a caveat to his claim “AR10s suck.” The older LR308 design is pretty well industry standard now, and they’re incredibly reliable. Aero, Ballistic Advantage, Wilson Combat, Palmetto all have interchangeable parts with their LR308s. Kinda surprised he didn’t explain that a little more
Little note- The guys at Aero told Lucas @ Trex that they don’t manufacture their own bolts, they contract those out of shop. Springfield might have the same supplier but not necessarily coming from Aero.
So who makes Aero Precision's BCGs?
@@Enjoyer.762 question of the year
For what it’s worth, mine functions flawlessly so far and I got it two weeks after they hit the market so it’s a first run sample which isn’t something I normally do. Rolled the dice on Ruger and I do not regret it.
I built an Aero M5 with a Toolcraft BCG and a nice barrel (Having a brainfart) and I absolutely love it.
I have a DPMS LR308 from ~2007. Back then they were standard and DPMS was the the standard. The only issue with it was the really crappy magazine. I use Magpul mags and it runs flawlessly. I think the problems arrived when manufacturers tried to mix an AR-15 with an AR-10.
Hopefully the old obsolete long action ar10 pattern rifles will be phased out in favor of newer better made ar15 sized ar10's.
@@IAM-o7o Maybe but I happen to like it the way Stoner basically designed it. It's heavier than an AR-15 but lighter than an M-14. A 7.62x51 bolt group should have more mass than an AR-15's. There is a reason I haven't had issues with the rifle.
@@mikevars8979 I just see it as another tool, if it gets improved upon over time then why not get the newer better version so long as it is proven of course. I would however much rather see improvement upon calibers like 300 blk out, 7.62x39 or 6.8 spc so that I don't have to have a full sized rifle.
DPMS has always been crap. Never the standard.
@@LosDoyerss actually it was the standard. The AR-10 platform was a mishmash of standards until DPMS standardized it. It wasn't always crap either but it has gone down hill since it's founder left a decade ago.
would be intresting to see a 5k review given the lighter components
Waiting for the sig Spear in .308 with a 16” barrel. Please sig make it happen…
They’ve said before it will, at least per soldier systems. But maybe that’s changed.
They will, it will be $5k
MSRP is $4199 for 308 Sig Spear. I'd take a SCAR 17 for now. Proven over time, and comes with Irons and good aftermarket for $700 less. That would get you a good trigger and mlok rail and pistol grip
@@Rooster762 You just can’t suppress it without voiding your warranty, and you get to make it even heavier to do what the spear already does.
It’s still a good option I just personally want the spear.
@@idontwanttoputmyname403 Yeah true
The question no one is asking is "Why? Why is it that the highest tier of AR-10 makers (Knights, LMT, LWRC, etc.) all make full size AR10s and not small frame AR10s?"
Also, "why is it that all "new" designs like the SCAR 17 and MCX Spear are still "fullsize"?"
To be fair TFB had three and it was one that Hopp was making the video on that had issues. Still one out of three isn’t the best odds if there is indeed an issue.
I'm ready for a caliber change. A do it all AR that is light weight. The 6 arc seems perfect. Having A 308, 7.62x39, 5.56, 300 blackout is nuts. I'm ready for a 6arc and a 5.56. 6.8 spc would be fine too.
I had an original AR 10 made in the 60s by the Dutch for use in the Sudan, with Arabic sight markings. It had been altered to semi auto but was easy to convert back. I was able to dig out the solder from the auto notch in the change lever with a pocket knife and got a M 16 auto sear that dropped right in. I wondered if it would work, coming from a 5.56mm but it did. I've got a photo of me firing it, barrel still nice and level, and 5 ejected cases visible in the air.
Great rifle!
Cool and now the alphabet agencies are coming by to check it out😂
@@chrisblack2330 They're too late, I sold it years ago!
Can I have it
@@chathao2833 Sorry, I sold it long ago.
Aero doesn't make LR-308 BCGs. Lucas Botkin from T.REX Arms talked with their CEO and they source it from another OEM (Source: Aero 5K Rd video).
Not all these rifles are AR-10 so maybe there needs to be a dial back and talk about the differences in rifles between the AR-10, AR-308, LR-308, and SR25 etc.
Huh?? LOL sorry I don't speak CHEAP AR's.....Patriot Ordinance Factory Revolution for me!!!!!
All one needs is the La Rue trigger and a Walther barrel with the same position gas port. Crazy accurate w reloads topped w Sierra boat-tail match Bullets.
But….honestly-I will take a Russian made AK over AR platform--anytime, any day👍👍👍👍💯💯💯💯💯💥💥💥💥💥🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯🎯
Still blows my mind that Colt let the whole market up for grabs. The 901 was great...just think if the US had gone with the FAL way back when we would be set today
The FAL is great. Too bad the parts kits dried up and now building one is ridiculously expensive. Lots of crappy builds out there too, and going for big money.
Me, I'm going to party with my sweet Metric like it is 1999. It cost me less to build back then than a cheap generic AR costs today.
Feeding is a little pricey but maybe someday surplus ammo will be a thing again. There is still a lot of it out there but the UN arms treaty pretty much ruined the milsurp ammo supply.
Mine did not function as reliably as I had hoped. It would not cycle on setting two at all. Setting three worked much better, but it did fail to cycle a couple rounds and brass was ejecting all over the place so that was enough for me. I have no patience for a rifle that could have reliability issues so I traded it in for a Daniel Defense M4V7. My LMT MWS 308 is heavier but I trust its reliability as much as my BCM and now DD.
A long range SFAR video with the 20 inch barrel would be nice
With the federal 20 rounds, the brass was ejecting different on the last eight rounds.
Cool video. Very informative. Been looking to get an AR 10 or M14 type rifle for a while. I was looking at the Ruger, but may wind up going with something like a Springfield SOCOM II. Would love to have both someday.
The non-standardization of AR-10s was my reason for going the M14/M1A route.
I have an old Les Baer AR-10 that came with a 17.25" buffer spring. It was a single shot; the BCG couldn't go back far enough to eject the case and pick up a new one. I replaced it with a JPS 308 buffer spring and now it runs great.
Is the PA plx 1-10 LVPO a new unreleased product? I can't find any info about it on the PA website.
I shot my new SFAR today for the first time. Cleaned and lubed beforehand. Shot Magtech 147 Gr. NATO, Red Army Steel Case 150 Gr., and Remington 150 Gr. Core-Lokt, and all ran flawlessly. Ran on gas setting 3 for first 50 rounds, then on setting 2 for remaining 40 rounds. 90 rounds total. It was very accurate and had amazingly low recoil. Optic was a Primary Arms SLx 3x MicroPrism. Very pleased with this setup.
Low recoil? What
@@tom690 yep, recoil is pretty soft for a 308.
My SFAR performs well with PPU ammo but fouls the gas ring area pretty badly on PMC for some reason.
I took the BCG out and dropped the bolt 4 different times to look at post-firing contamination.
After the PPU it was surprising clean with a minimal of carbon.
I gave it a quick cleaning then loaded up the PMC.
I wish I could post pictures because after the PMC mag it was absolutely *caked* with carbon. (I do mean CAKED)
The initial symptom that raised an eyebrow was after 300+ PPU rounds at the range, with the only change being PMC ammo, it stovepiped and on drawing the bolt back I noticed the charging handled at the rear end of the charging travel was "stiff".
For the record: I have probably 10000+ rounds of PMC fired out of varying .223/5.56 AR patterns (Bull Twenty, Oracles, etc.) with a minimal of stoppages, or very acceptable rates of failure that never really concerned me, so I don't know if maybe the current or recent batches of PMC have just been contaminated and/or the SFAR is a "prissy eater". I will leave that analysis to my betters.
I do very much enjoy this SFAR. It shoots solid MOA groups @ 100+m and, surprisingly, my wife really likes it over the Bull Twenty and other AR's, which is weird to me because of the enhanced recoil difference, particularly between the Bull and the SFAR, where the Bull is much heavier in correlation to the round so far less felt recoil.
I have a POF Edge AR10 and it’s a hefty rifle, especially with the monolith rail. The revolution is a totally different AR10 than the Edge and parts don’t interchange so even with the same company there are so many variations.
I purchased a new Robar NP3 coated POF P308 Gen4 Edge SPR over five years ago. Has run through every ammo and weather condition I've thrown at it, flawlessly, even bone dry/no lube.
Broke in at .6 moa with Fed GMM 168.
Anyone who thinks AR-10s suck own the WRONG AR-10s.
My SHTF safe grab rifle/pistol is the POF P308 SPR and HK Mark 23 w/suppressor, loaded with 45 Super ammo.
@@jamescampbell4334 Awesome! Thanks.
Thanks for your very informative info-clip and yes, I happen to like Ruger products a lot and have just received a starting
I’ve had the pleasure of owning a Revolution for over a year now with about 1k rounds through it (half suppressed) and I can’t imagine being able to improve on anything POF has done with this platform. Truly an incredible piece of engineering.
I'm with ya man my revolution is hands down my favorite rifle
Maybe if 85%+ of Rugers budget alternative work it will lower the POFs price by atleast $500... I understand why the rifle was expensive to begin with, but by now they've surely recouped the initial R&D and tooling setups, and have better margins with subcontractors... Although I'd say the Revolution is probably POFs biggest money maker, so maybe it has to keep all of POF balanced out by making large percentage profits 🤷♂️ If small frame .308 ARs become the next "red dot capable double stack 9mm micro pistols" for the AR manufacturers I guess we shall see alot of competition and price fluctuations 😄
@berryreading4809 you can pick up a Revolution for under 2500 now they have come down $500 in price. they use to be closer to $3k, now you can find them for $2400.
I was interested in the revolution at one point but heard nothing but problems from the owners on the FB groups. That turned me away from POF. Glad you're getting to enjoy yours.
piston or di? which u think better?
You have convinced me. I'll get one eventually. Thanks for the analysis.
Excellent Review 👍 Interesting how it shot the lighter bullets more accurately. 130 grain solid copper's would be devastating on large game out to 400 yards. 147 grain NATO rounds are more than expectable. I'd like to see Ruger do a Custom Shop Carbon Fiber Barrel and handguard as well. Ruger hit it out of the park with this one.
Yes you should try some 130 Hornady soft point , loaded with 47 gr of H4895 shoots very accurate for me.more than good enough to hunt with or take out the bad guys😅😸👍
Great video; Thanks a ton! I just bot Ruger SFAR in .308 and anxiously awaiting its arrival...
I bought one back in November. Love it. Had a few issues initially, but they shook out as well by adjusting the gas. I do recommend checking the buffer. The roll pin in mine started backing out and I had to tap it back in. I have since replaced it with a Spikes h2 buffer. I can confirm it likes military weight ammo. Mine shoots best with 1982 Portuguese surplus.
Amazing gun just slap in an h2 buffer gas settings 2👌
Based on the ejection pattern the Ruger is under gassed. I hope they fix that and they become the standard
Ruger gas adjustable block. Which setting was he running it on?
@@armynurseboy 2 and 3. From what I saw even 3 was under gassed. Your ejection pattern should be between 4 & 5 o'clock for good reliability.
I just picked up my DD5 V3. I've heard reliably is outstanding. I hope so.
To be fair, the TFB guy did mention two of their other writers had their own evaluation guns which didn’t have reliability issues.
I’d rather just stick to the popular DPMS standard even if it is heavier
I have a S&W M&P 10, great rifle, very accurate, And an MDR by DT, But now after Tim showing this new Ruger, I gotta settle on a good "truck gun" This might be it. I love the .308 (7.62 x 51) cartridge. And I'm looking for a lighter all purpose semi auto rifle. I'm getting older now, so weight is an issue. I like the pairing of the PA 3X, thanks for sharing Tim
I just recently built an AR10 (LR-308) that came in at 6 lbs 8 oz without scope, mag accessories. And 37" with a fixed Magpul stock. I didn't go all out trying to make it an ultra lightweight. Just a lightweight bolt carrier and barrel. Everything else is standard parts. Could maybe shave a few more oz if I change out the stock to a lighter one and maybe the lower and upper parts kits to titanium or other lightweight parts. And could maybe take an inch or two off with a collapsible stock.
Price was about the same as the SCAR but has no proprietary parts. All DPMS (LR-308) compatible and easy to find
Seems if Ruger wanted, they can make it even lighter without sacrificing durability. That barrel can probably be made lighter and or carbon fiber wrapped, the bolt carrier looked a little heavy in places. I think they can reduce it down to six pounds even. But it of course would cost more and maybe be more finicky about ammo and gas block tuning
I've had my diamondback AR10 for 5 years and I absolutely love it the only thing that sucked was the price. Which is nothing compared to these days.
Got a Db15 556 for my first. Been eyeing their ar10s , looks like they have nice options for around a grand
@@contractor556there is one thing if you buy a DB 10. You will probably never want shoot the db15 again lol. I highly recommend getting one though!! I have the stainless steel 18 inch db10 it is great and accurate. But it is a bit heavy. But they do have sales on their web site from time to time. I picked up a complete factory 16 inch upper for it for 400 bucks.
Oh jeez, I built a dpms gen 1 LR308. After having to mill a whole new lower since the first one didn’t friggen fit.
It makes me nervous, and despite never having shot it yet I already hate it.
I am really hoping the SFAR that gave TFB a fit was an anomaly , because I want a Ruger SFAR. I have Smith and Wesson M&P 10 optics ready with a heavy barrel, and it shoots nice, but it's heavy, and the barrel isn't free floated. It also prefers the more expensive 168gr ammo over lighter, cheaper 145-147gr ammo. I'm going to sit and watch the Ruger reviews for a while though, before a buy to make sure everything is ironed out.
I have a LR308 and have NEVER had any issue with it EXCEPT its GROSSLY OVER TALL UPPER. TRY finding a after market hand guard to match it... ANY hand guard to match... NO WAY JOSE. I do love it as it is reliable and is pretty accurate. I put a 20" Faxon big gunner barrel on it, LOVE the Faxon barrels.
I have the dpms oracle lr308 with the stupidly high upper reciever also. I put a free float handguard on it alone with a muzzle break and a nikon bdc scope and it's been literally flawless. Shot it to 650yrds so far and the bdc made the 650 yrd shot almost to easy. Love my lr308 but I agree woth you the high profile opper reciever sucks. Been thinking of getting a aero or psa upper reciever to build out for a replacement.
Imagine how much weight you'd save by tossing that quad rail in the garbage.
If it were to become a new standard, okay. But at this point the DPMS LR .308 or whatever pattern seems to be the most common, so the easiest to find parts for, because proprietary untested parts and weapons, aren’t my cup of tea. But, I do like Ruger….. I may have to go this route instead of a PSA Gen III AR10 (DPMS style)
Yep good to hear a mention that in fact, the current DPMS spec offers a lot of standardization across a lot of manufacturers. That topic might make for a good video for Hop to pair with this one here.
I have the 16 inch sfar 500 down flawlessly turned it to setting 2 after the first 200 300 later not a problem
Having never owned an AR-10, I never thought that they would all be different. Great video.
im a G3 guy but like my SAINT .308 pistol , SFAR looks cool but not sure I want a super light AR10 , like the weight in the pistol for some of the recoil.
I noticed that the Fiocchi ammo was all ejecting it's brass consistently in the same direction, outboard past your right shoulder. The Federal ammo was ejecting its brass consistently when you first began firing that ammo, but then began ejecting it all over the place with the last several rounds of it. Did you notice that as well? Wonder what's up with the Federal ammo??
The ejection pattern moved forward as more rounds fired… typically ejecting forward means overgassed so my guess is that towards the end of the magazine all the contact surfaces between moving parts had started wearing in and everything started moving more freely. Basically by the end of the magazine there was less friction in the action than there was at the beginning of the magazine (due to the parts being more broken in) so the amount of gas needed to cycle the action was also reduced. The rifle needed the extra gas from setting 3 at the start of the magazine to overcome the extra friction, but towards the end of the magazine the extra gas was no longer needed since the action was operating more smoothly causing it to be overgassed. Could probably run another magazine or 2 through it to finish breaking it in then switch the gas block back to setting 2 and the rifle would function and the ejection pattern would return to normal.
@@curtmcbee2238 it would be interesting to see if you are correct, if MAC would retest the firearm and see what they come up with for this question on the ejection pattern.
I noticed as well, had to re watch to see. Constant rearward ejection, then on the last few ejections they were to the side, forward, side forward.
The Ruger just isn't as well made
Great freakin video. Gonna go out and get one today. Thanks guys!!!
I love the Aero M5 that i put together, it shoots great and ive never had any issues. Any part I got that said dpms or lr308 dropped in and works perfectly, it also uses some ar15 parts like the trigger and pistol grip.
Yes, me too
My Aero lower is solid. I cheaped out on an upper from Davidson Defense and regretted it. Had to wind up installing an adjustable gas block and a JP Enterprises extractor to get the damned thing to run right.
@@jimvac77 My buddy had the same problem with his M5 (100 % Aero), maybe it is a common issue for .308’s
@@TJ-wg3ud I think you're right. Overgassed plus weak extractors=double feeds, failure to eject, and frustration.
@@jimvac77 that’s interesting. I got a Davidson defense LR308 20” upper back during December of 2021 and it works flawlessly for me.
Specs: PI-RC-308-27870 DD Custom Arms "Pershing" LR-308 Featuring Aero Precision M5 Upper 20" .308 Win 4150 CMV QPQ Nitride 1-10T Barrel 15" High Profile M-Lok Handguard
when did primary arms come out with a plx 1-10?
Very cool! I guess I need one of those too. 4 years ago I built an Aero AR-10 using a Kreiger 20” service profile barrel and it’s at 14 pounds.
Can you please do a review of the dimondback AR10/DB10 in 308?
I only have had one issue with a brand new Ruger. I contacted them by phone, they offered to pay shipping and repair the handgun or supply the part needed. The repair was extremely simple so I had them ship the part. I received the part in less than 5 business days!
No mention of the Sig 716i? Where’s the love? 😊
Agreed, when I built my Aero M5 I found the information hard to come by. It became work in progress. The gas system was the hardest to get right. And of course adding a can made it even worse. Adding an adjustable gas block fixed everything, making it run great. Tough gun.
Can you share what your final build was? It can help me with my learning curve on my Aero build. Thanks
Yah I'm in my aero build and I came to that conclusion early after reviews like yours. Adjustable gas block is the only way with the ole .308
Aero just confirmed on TH-cam that a 3rd party makes their 308 BCGs. I believe it's in the comments of a stress test done by Trex arms.... Test didn't go well
I know that we all love the AR platform but if we’re comparing size, the tavor 7 (albeit chunky) with a 16 inch barrel is about 30 inches. Manual of arms is similar to the AR although getting through reloads takes time to learn. My $.02 because I’m an old fart that loves his M1a and tavor 7 equally 😊
of course a boomer would buy a tavor.
THAT REALLY PISSED ME OFF TO SEE YOUR RUGER SFAR RUN FLAWLESS...ON SETTING 2 EVEN! 🤬 WTF is wrong with my SFAR???? Even after getting it back from Ruger...same problems!
I’ve pretty much made up my mind that when I buy an AR10 pattern rifle, I’m going with a Daniel Defense DD5 V3 or V4 in .308/7.62x51mm. They’re a good company, the rifles work, Daniel Defense makes parts consistently, they have a good warranty policy, and you shouldn’t need to buy replacement parts or use the warranty policy. The non standardization between AR10’s is a problem. That’s why I want a rifle that works from the beginning. That way I never have to replace anything.
Check out Diamondback DB-10 and Core Rifle Systems.
@@asherdie I have a DB10, quite happy with it.
Yeah, I live in CT so I can't buy the vast majority of "assault weapon" type guns, but if I could, DD or LMT would be my go to. Midwest Industries makes great .308 guns for those that are on more of a budget.
I decided to build my own from a Seekins Precision lower, upper, and their flat bottom handguard that came with it, but I took too long(especially because Seekins' products are never in stock, at least on their own website), and now they've made the brace decision/ruling(we have/had to build ARs as "others"(i.e. neither a rifle nor a pistol), and since stocks would make them rifles, we use pistol braces, along with VFGs to prevent them from being classified as rifles), so I'm kind if screwed on that project. At least I bought the lower before the ban, so I've got that going for me I guess.
DD5 V3 over the v4. You won’t regret it
@@2010GT500 care to elaborate? For someone considering those exact 2 rifles.
If you want to know if you have a real AR10 it must say “Armalite” brand name “AR10” designation, or it must say milspec SR25(Stoner Rifle 25), or M110.
Otherwise it’s a wannabe DPMS pattern .308 which has no real standard that makes em impossible to interchange. If you have a DPMS pattern rifle I don’t consider it an ar10 and cringe every time I hear some one say it is. If you want a DPMS pattern 308 my recommendation is get a complete matching set because there is almost no way to tell compatible parts until they dont fit.
Throwing aside DPMS pattern, the The SR25 was like the renewed AR10 that fixed most of its weaknesses and then got crossover into the M110 designation. A lot of parts are interchangeable with these rifles but the original AR10A lower is not compatible with the SR25 upper but the AR10B lower is updated to work with the SR25 upper, and fun fact AR10A upper will fit SR25 but there is a small gap on the rear slant. To make it worse there are some companies claiming they are SR25 uppers but they barely donot fit on a true SR25 lower so beware, but the bcg is the same.
Armalite was a division of Fairchild Aircraft Corp. back in the 1950s, an aerospace firm. Eugene Stoner worked for that company, which no longer exists and hasn't in decades. The modern iteration of Armalite - Armalite, Inc. of Geneseo, IL - is owned by former Army Ordnance officer Mark Westrom, who purchased the rights to the Armalite name and some of its patents in the early 1990s.
Firearms made by either of these two firms can legitimately be called "AR10 rifles." The term has entered general use to denote a large-frame AR15 type rifle chambered in a full-power center-fire cartridge, typically .308 but also 6.5 Creedmoor and others. A more generalist term, "LR-308," is now also used in the FA industry to denote the same category or pattern of rifle or carbine. And now, with the profusion of large-frame ARs in recent years, each company making them has their own nomenclature and ideas about how they should be made. As Tim emphasizes, no standard layout or design exists, so the industry-wide standardization of AR15 does not exist for large-frame ARs.
Broadly-speaking, there are two basic patterns: Armalite and DPMS. These are distinguished by the features and design of their respective receivers, using such indices as deck height and shape/contour of the fitment of the upper to lower. Within the modern Armalite, Inc. pattern, there are two series - A and B. These designate which magazines will fit the rifle in question. Series A Armalite AR10s can use stanag Magpul or similar mags; series B rifles can use only proprietary Armalite magazines, which are similar to but not identical to M14 magazines. DPMS pattern rifles divide into Gen I and Gen II.
Companies such as Rock River Arms, Windham Weaponry, Ruger, and others - manufacture variants of the large-frame AR which often have some interchangeability, but not total. Magazines are often proprietary - such as with RRA - and in other cases, such Palmetto State Armory, their uppers and lowers fit well only with one another.
Finally, there are innovations such as small-frame AR10s of the kind produced by Patriot Ordnance Factory and Ruger. These, too, are their own animals.
Finally, there are custom builds mating parts from different companies.
You can see why MAC says AR10 design is "all over the place," because it is!
Will it come close to ever standardization? Who knows.
@@vannjunkin8041 It has. This guy has a point, but there’s also a fact he’s not mentioning, that MOST popular “AR10’s” today sold are DPMS Gen 2.
I’ve bought a few different AR10’s recently, one from PSA, then another from BCA, and some from Aero, all three can be swapped around with the uppers and lowers being compatible between each other. I have gotten an 16in SFAR too an while it’s definitely it’s own rifle in more ways than one I do love it.