I just Leased a '24 Ford F150 Lightning for $5500 down and 278/month for 36 months. The dealer said that Ford Motor Co. is losing 40-50K on each EV they sell and the Dealer is losing about $3K on a sale like mine. They do it anyway because they simply have to move this inventory! MSRP 72K. My lease will cost under 16K total after 3 years including disposition fee at the end, but the depreciation will easily be double that! Likely more!
Where? This deal is significantly lower than what Ford advertises on their website. Current lease deal for a 2024 xlt is $429/mo and $7489 at signing for 36 months.
Ouch. My Rivian lease looks nothing like that. I took delivery of a 2023 R1T right after the 2025 refresh was launched this past June. They only had a handful of 2023s left and quite a few 2024s. My Spec is a 2023 R1T Dual Motor Performance with Max Pack with a build price of $102,500. They marked about $35K off of it including the tax credit. Paying $596 a month with $3K due at signing (fees, licensing, first month payment), and I can buy the truck for $46K after 36 months. They also bought down the interest rate/money factor to make the rent charge virtually nothing ($37 over 3 years). That said, my deal was very unique being a 2023 model after the 2025 refresh had just launched. I could have purchased, but would have missed out on the tax credit and free financing of the lease.
“At the end of a lease you’re left with nothing” is generally true but with EVs and their depreciation, I won’t be left with a huge car payment on a car I can’t get above water on.
I purchased a Rivian R1T with the original pricing (before the price increase) and qualified for the full EV tax credit and I still owe more than the truck is worth! In general EVs are depreciating drastically! One other thing I would consider in the conversation of lease vs purchase is that I worry about the technology in these vehicles becoming obsolete. I can only speak to the Rivian vehicles. I want to keep my truck as long as I can, but I fear and wonder if Rivian at some point may stop supporting Gen 1 vehicles because it is not cost effective? So it would be nice if processors and batteries could be swapped out efficiently to keep a vehicle up to date and not go by way of say an iPhone where you are looking to swap for a new one every few upgrade cycles.
Disagree with the sentiment that "you're left with nothing after a lease" . You're left with a choice to continue ownership given a known reliability / usage / service history or walk away having spent exactly what you knew you would on day 1.
@@Gjeebs Exactly the point. Lease is a hedge against depreciation. When you sign your lease, depreciation is forecasted (known as residual value). At the end of the lease, if the market value is favorable, then buyout your lease. If not, walk away. Think of your rental fee as insurance against the depreciation. Knowing what we know now about Rivian (and all EV) depreciation, if you financed / purchased the Rivian, you would be so underwater that you would have no choice but to keep the car and payoff the $91K price + interest. With a lease, you can walk away. In fact, if someone loves their Rivian, you would be better off riding out the lease and then buying a use Rivian at market value which could potentially save you tens of thousands of dollars over financing a new Rivian on Day 1.
@@max_beta672do you happen to know if you could buy out the car at the end based on the market value instead? Is this up to the dealer at that time or its a given that you can't based on the lease agreement? If no then would you just have to wait until the dealer list it again on their lot? I'm not sure if it would go to auction or not too.
@@volcalstone That's a great question. I've only leased once and in my case I walked away from the car since the residual was above market value. Would be a huge win for the customer to get best of both worlds which probably means they wouldn't let you :-) ... but I don't have experience in trying to negotiate something like that.
@max_beta672 based on some searches it looks like the answer is no. This is unfortunate but at the same time I will be ready to let go of my car tho. I don't mind buying a used one if I really like the car. Chances though I will probably move on since I'm already eyeballing my next one recently.
There are a few situations where a lead makes sense: 1) high sales tax. With a lease, you only pay sales on the years you use it. 2) if it helps you get a $7500 discount you do not otherwise qualify for due to income 3) If it's new tech and there is a very high risk of depreciation, and 4) If you know you'll want a new model year vehicle in 3 years. Otherwise, the best deal is always to buy a one to two year old with very low miles that is still under warranty.
You did a great job showcasing why buying a car new with the plan to sell it in just a year or 2 is a terrible financial idea, just like leasing. Unfortunately many people don’t understand that leasing is for people who don’t mind to spend a lot of money to have a new car.
Does Rivian adjust the residual value when you turn the vehicle in because obviously they cant sell it for more than its worth and it seems odd they would tell the leasee "no you cant buy it for what we will sell it to someone else for because your contract says residual value is more"
@@joshb.1118 We have this issue in Australia (but never had a tax credit). A used model 3 (even an old 2019) won't go below $30k, all while everyone keeps saying oh don't buy a Tesla, they will be worth $10k after 3 years of owning one. I'm still waiting for that $20k used model 3 to appear but it never does 😅
3 months ago I leased a 2024 ioniq 5. This is my first lease ever. 33 months and 45k miles is what my lease is for. I don't think normal leases are worth it at all, but this is my first EV and I know they don't hold their value at all so that's why I leased. Also, two free years of charging which would be at least $8k in gas for me. $20k to drive this car around for 45k miles.. I had a 2023 santa fe before this that I lost $18k on in 22 months and 32k miles.
There used to be services that facilitated the transfer of a lease from one individual to another. The use case was that there were people that wanted a shorter lease than the typical offered, and were willing to assume the lease obligation. I don't know if those still exist. If so, it might be worth a try. (I don't know what Rivian's rules are on lease transfers.) Or, absent a service, a person-to-person lease assumption. (Again, provided Rivian even allows that without some wonky requirement.)
Leasing an EV is the only way to do an EV. Also as a side note you got a really bad lease deal. I'm paying $28k for 3 years for a quad motor, yours is $10k more for 1 year less for a dual. You're gonna eat it any way you look at it.
Do you still recommend the Sailun ERange tires for a Tesla? I have to replace my tires soon (4/32 tread depth on my Michelin Primacys) and am doing research right now. I realize they don’t have foam to dampen sound noise though and depend on the unique tread design to minimize noise. I’m wondering if I should still get those Sailun ERange tires or go with the Hankook ION Evo tires like most people are recommending. Or should I try the new Goodyear Electric Drive2 EV tires that came out in the second half of 2024? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
When I retired I started leasing. No maintenance. No worries. A new car every two or three years. When you purchase what do you have once it is paid off? Basically a piece of junk. For the last 6 years I've paid $250.00/month and have had three new cars. I love it.
This is especially actionable advice if you realize you have saved more for retirement than you will likely spend in your lifetime (and either don't have heirs you'd like to pass the excess to, or don't believe that is good to do).
Due to depreciation, I think it's best to lease most electric vehicles right now. Maybe in time when that scenario improves, I would consider financing.
Really the point of EV leasing is to let the upfront Federal and State tax incentives cover the costs of depreciation over the lease term thereby reducing your lease payments, sometimes to comically low payments in some states.
On one hand, don't pass by a sponsorship when you need the money. On the other hand, the right kind of jump box to keep in your car is the capacitor type, not the battery type. The capacitor type can sit forever and still help you when you need it. A long abandoned battery one will be dead and the batteries will have failed due to age and storage temperature..
Geebs, you’re a smart guy, but you’ve the calculus all wrong on leasing. It is in fact a very smart decision for most situations most of the time. I don’t wish to discuss it here in the comments section, but if you want to hear my reasoning, let me know. You actually proved the point when you gave the numbers and the CarMax bid after one year was less than the guaranteed future value after two years.
I'd lease a cyber truck in Cali to leverage the V2H setup. 9 power walls sold a peak rate would be killer. I doubt the lease dynamics have caught up to battery cycles vs mileage lol. shhhhh. Cali vehicle registration is disgusting lol. I left there in 2009.
@gjeebs Brand new ICE vehicles depreciate as soon as you drive them off the lot. Do you have any idea why electric vehicles depreciate so much? The wear and tear on an ICE vehicle compared to an EV is so much greater you would think that an EV would hold their value longer.
4:36 Imagine if someone had walked in on you while you were filming that urinal...that'd be a tough one to explain. 😅 So who takes the hit on that depreciation with the lease? Is it Rivian or a bank?
Lease…crazy. Buy them all. When I pay off my Tesla, I’ll drive it a few more years, then some more, then pass it on to a kid or co-worker for a couple of K.
@EfLuis Taxes make a good deal feel much worse haha. As far as battery is concerned, I actually had a battery failure a week after purchasing. It was covered under warranty obviously and they gave me a loaner while it was being repaired. It's a remanufactured battery and I think it definitely has some degradation but hard for me to compare to the first battery since I'd only had it one week lol
hmmm? transportation is not an investment....it's just another necessary living expense it's not food, housing, personal etc, but transportation, just decide what you want to or able to or want to drive ? don't feel too bad though it's hard to resist massive "lifestyle" marketing... makes money for providers not users
Actually, you lost less money from returning your truck after another year then selling it to Carmax. Once the cheap electric vehicle comes out in twenty twenty five, this expensive electric vehicle will lose much more value. It will be a bloodbath.
I've only made it halfway through the vid. Did you just show a clip of the urinal at Carmax? You didn't just show a clip of the urinal at Carmax......what the. If a clean urinal is a selling point...where are we?? Also, is it not enough to say something more nebulous about Carmax? I mean, how was the chair you sat in while speaking to them? What the hell.
Did the same thing a couple weeks ago. We have similar trucks except I have 21" road tires. I went to Carmax and was quoted $50K and I only have 7,300 miles. Wife wants to replace our Model X (Tesla buyback) with a Cybertruck but she doesn't want two trucks on the driveway. Looks like we're keeping the Rivian and I'm happy. We leased it because it's our first truck and we just wanted to see if we can use the utility. First two months, we can't live without it. Didn't realize how much we used the "truck" part of the truck. th-cam.com/video/8g0t7u9-fEQ/w-d-xo.html
It's not a waste of money if you are playing it right and it appears that @Gjeebs is playing it right. He said that the residual (what the lease payment was calculated on) is 62K but the actual value would be about 40K. That is 22K in depreciation that Rivian will be eating and not @Gjeebs. Well done!
Never finance a electric vehicle they hold absolutely no value you will always be underwater with financing . just lease it for 3 or 4 years and get a new one when the lease is up.
Here is the link to the jumpstarter: amzn.to/4064IAz code gjeebs will save 18%. Also did you expect the depreciation to be this bad?
Running the numbers after you sign the papers is seldom a good idea.
I just Leased a '24 Ford F150 Lightning for $5500 down and 278/month for 36 months. The dealer said that Ford Motor Co. is losing 40-50K on each EV they sell and the Dealer is losing about $3K on a sale like mine. They do it anyway because they simply have to move this inventory! MSRP 72K. My lease will cost under 16K total after 3 years including disposition fee at the end, but the depreciation will easily be double that! Likely more!
That’s a good deal for peace of mind
Stupid by you and stupid by ford
Where? This deal is significantly lower than what Ford advertises on their website. Current lease deal for a 2024 xlt is $429/mo and $7489 at signing for 36 months.
@@oremember you probably only have a 10k a year lease though. That’s not enough miles for most.
@@front_man001 agree,I want some of what he’s smoking. It may be a 8k mile a year lease on a stripped model too.
You love everything about it and it's a really nice truck. Keep it until the end of the lease.
That's what I am doing
Ouch. My Rivian lease looks nothing like that. I took delivery of a 2023 R1T right after the 2025 refresh was launched this past June. They only had a handful of 2023s left and quite a few 2024s. My Spec is a 2023 R1T Dual Motor Performance with Max Pack with a build price of $102,500. They marked about $35K off of it including the tax credit. Paying $596 a month with $3K due at signing (fees, licensing, first month payment), and I can buy the truck for $46K after 36 months. They also bought down the interest rate/money factor to make the rent charge virtually nothing ($37 over 3 years). That said, my deal was very unique being a 2023 model after the 2025 refresh had just launched. I could have purchased, but would have missed out on the tax credit and free financing of the lease.
Yea that's an incredible deal
As an old, wise accountant once told me, 'If you can afford it, buy it. If you cannot afford to buy it, lease it.'
An old, wise accountant once told me "buy appreciating assets, lease depreciating assets"
@@NickThaddick It was in reference to vehicles.
@@danlowe8684 Yep.
I'm amused by people who are surprised that new vehicles lose half their value the moment they are driven off the lot.
Wouldn’t a truly wise accountant say, “If you can’t afford to buy it, either save up until you can buy it, or buy something that you can afford?”
Or take the bus
“At the end of a lease you’re left with nothing” is generally true but with EVs and their depreciation, I won’t be left with a huge car payment on a car I can’t get above water on.
I purchased a Rivian R1T with the original pricing (before the price increase) and qualified for the full EV tax credit and I still owe more than the truck is worth! In general EVs are depreciating drastically!
One other thing I would consider in the conversation of lease vs purchase is that I worry about the technology in these vehicles becoming obsolete. I can only speak to the Rivian vehicles. I want to keep my truck as long as I can, but I fear and wonder if Rivian at some point may stop supporting Gen 1 vehicles because it is not cost effective?
So it would be nice if processors and batteries could be swapped out efficiently to keep a vehicle up to date and not go by way of say an iPhone where you are looking to swap for a new one every few upgrade cycles.
Disagree with the sentiment that "you're left with nothing after a lease" . You're left with a choice to continue ownership given a known reliability / usage / service history or walk away having spent exactly what you knew you would on day 1.
the buyout is 62k and at the end of the lease it will be worth 40
@@Gjeebs Exactly the point. Lease is a hedge against depreciation. When you sign your lease, depreciation is forecasted (known as residual value). At the end of the lease, if the market value is favorable, then buyout your lease. If not, walk away. Think of your rental fee as insurance against the depreciation. Knowing what we know now about Rivian (and all EV) depreciation, if you financed / purchased the Rivian, you would be so underwater that you would have no choice but to keep the car and payoff the $91K price + interest. With a lease, you can walk away. In fact, if someone loves their Rivian, you would be better off riding out the lease and then buying a use Rivian at market value which could potentially save you tens of thousands of dollars over financing a new Rivian on Day 1.
@@max_beta672do you happen to know if you could buy out the car at the end based on the market value instead? Is this up to the dealer at that time or its a given that you can't based on the lease agreement? If no then would you just have to wait until the dealer list it again on their lot? I'm not sure if it would go to auction or not too.
@@volcalstone That's a great question. I've only leased once and in my case I walked away from the car since the residual was above market value. Would be a huge win for the customer to get best of both worlds which probably means they wouldn't let you :-) ... but I don't have experience in trying to negotiate something like that.
@max_beta672 based on some searches it looks like the answer is no. This is unfortunate but at the same time I will be ready to let go of my car tho. I don't mind buying a used one if I really like the car. Chances though I will probably move on since I'm already eyeballing my next one recently.
There are a few situations where a lead makes sense: 1) high sales tax. With a lease, you only pay sales on the years you use it. 2) if it helps you get a $7500 discount you do not otherwise qualify for due to income 3) If it's new tech and there is a very high risk of depreciation, and 4) If you know you'll want a new model year vehicle in 3 years. Otherwise, the best deal is always to buy a one to two year old with very low miles that is still under warranty.
Holy crap there’s a lot of bots in the comment section
You did a great job showcasing why buying a car new with the plan to sell it in just a year or 2 is a terrible financial idea, just like leasing. Unfortunately many people don’t understand that leasing is for people who don’t mind to spend a lot of money to have a new car.
Does Rivian adjust the residual value when you turn the vehicle in because obviously they cant sell it for more than its worth and it seems odd they would tell the leasee "no you cant buy it for what we will sell it to someone else for because your contract says residual value is more"
Instead of the lease to save money, buy cars 1-2 years old instead. Get a $90k Rivian for $50k 1-year later with 10k miles. Bargain!
Uhm. where did you find that Rivian. The dealers will offer $50k, but they sell it for $65-$70k
A used EV is where it’s at for value
I agree
Those used prices will go up or plateau as soon as the fed tax credit is gone.
@@joshb.1118 We have this issue in Australia (but never had a tax credit). A used model 3 (even an old 2019) won't go below $30k, all while everyone keeps saying oh don't buy a Tesla, they will be worth $10k after 3 years of owning one. I'm still waiting for that $20k used model 3 to appear but it never does 😅
3 months ago I leased a 2024 ioniq 5. This is my first lease ever. 33 months and 45k miles is what my lease is for. I don't think normal leases are worth it at all, but this is my first EV and I know they don't hold their value at all so that's why I leased. Also, two free years of charging which would be at least $8k in gas for me. $20k to drive this car around for 45k miles.. I had a 2023 santa fe before this that I lost $18k on in 22 months and 32k miles.
There used to be services that facilitated the transfer of a lease from one individual to another. The use case was that there were people that wanted a shorter lease than the typical offered, and were willing to assume the lease obligation. I don't know if those still exist. If so, it might be worth a try. (I don't know what Rivian's rules are on lease transfers.) Or, absent a service, a person-to-person lease assumption. (Again, provided Rivian even allows that without some wonky requirement.)
Leasing an EV is the only way to do an EV. Also as a side note you got a really bad lease deal. I'm paying $28k for 3 years for a quad motor, yours is $10k more for 1 year less for a dual. You're gonna eat it any way you look at it.
Do you still recommend the Sailun ERange tires for a Tesla? I have to replace my tires soon (4/32 tread depth on my Michelin Primacys) and am doing research right now. I realize they don’t have foam to dampen sound noise though and depend on the unique tread design to minimize noise. I’m wondering if I should still get those Sailun ERange tires or go with the Hankook ION Evo tires like most people are recommending.
Or should I try the new Goodyear Electric Drive2 EV tires that came out in the second half of 2024? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Used R1S are priced amazingly!
When I retired I started leasing. No maintenance. No worries. A new car every two or three years. When you purchase what do you have once it is paid off? Basically a piece of junk.
For the last 6 years I've paid $250.00/month and have had three new cars. I love it.
This is especially actionable advice if you realize you have saved more for retirement than you will likely spend in your lifetime (and either don't have heirs you'd like to pass the excess to, or don't believe that is good to do).
May I ask you what cars you’ve leased?
Urinal was a nice touch! Only lease if it’s a write off!
Due to depreciation, I think it's best to lease most electric vehicles right now. Maybe in time when that scenario improves, I would consider financing.
Really the point of EV leasing is to let the upfront Federal and State tax incentives cover the costs of depreciation over the lease term thereby reducing your lease payments, sometimes to comically low payments in some states.
Yea I got the $7,500 federal which was good
what happened to that steering wheel....
I hate the idea of renting a car, and always stressed about miles.....AKA leasing.
Looks like going with Rivian's offer makes more sense at $59k? Still going with the R1S or maybe a Lucid Gravity?
On one hand, don't pass by a sponsorship when you need the money. On the other hand, the right kind of jump box to keep in your car is the capacitor type, not the battery type. The capacitor type can sit forever and still help you when you need it. A long abandoned battery one will be dead and the batteries will have failed due to age and storage temperature..
Man, those Rivians are hard on the eye!
Geebs, you’re a smart guy, but you’ve the calculus all wrong on leasing. It is in fact a very smart decision for most situations most of the time. I don’t wish to discuss it here in the comments section, but if you want to hear my reasoning, let me know.
You actually proved the point when you gave the numbers and the CarMax bid after one year was less than the guaranteed future value after two years.
I just sold my 2020 model 3 to carvana. They gave me the most money. A lot more than Tesla or Carmax. You might try them.
I will!
Have you tried places like Carvana?
Haven't tried them yet
I could hear the heat pump noise while you were driving.
I'd lease a cyber truck in Cali to leverage the V2H setup. 9 power walls sold a peak rate would be killer. I doubt the lease dynamics have caught up to battery cycles vs mileage lol. shhhhh. Cali vehicle registration is disgusting lol. I left there in 2009.
Aren’t you forgetting about $7500 EV credit that gets applied against your MSRP?
Cars and Bids ....auction fun!
Yeah a quad Rivian for 50k is an insanely good deal.
@gjeebs Brand new ICE vehicles depreciate as soon as you drive them off the lot. Do you have any idea why electric vehicles depreciate so much? The wear and tear on an ICE vehicle compared to an EV is so much greater you would think that an EV would hold their value longer.
4:36 Imagine if someone had walked in on you while you were filming that urinal...that'd be a tough one to explain. 😅
So who takes the hit on that depreciation with the lease? Is it Rivian or a bank?
Wicked depreciation of $3250.00/mo for your first year. Seems only very wealthy can afford that hit.
Lease…crazy. Buy them all. When I pay off my Tesla, I’ll drive it a few more years, then some more, then pass it on to a kid or co-worker for a couple of K.
Let's be real. You're a TH-camr and your lease payments are a business expense.
I just picked up a 21 Model Y Performance with 36k miles for $31k.
That's crazy. Good value. How do you like it?
@ it’s great. Very good condition I just hope the previous owner took care of the battery
I bought a used 21 MY performance back in April for $35k. It had 48,000 miles on it. I think you got a better deal! Did you buy direct from Tesla?
@ I should say with taxes it was 34k lol
Have you experienced battery degradation?
@EfLuis Taxes make a good deal feel much worse haha. As far as battery is concerned, I actually had a battery failure a week after purchasing. It was covered under warranty obviously and they gave me a loaner while it was being repaired. It's a remanufactured battery and I think it definitely has some degradation but hard for me to compare to the first battery since I'd only had it one week lol
hmmm? transportation is not an investment....it's just another necessary living expense it's not food, housing, personal etc, but transportation, just decide what you want to or able to or want to drive ? don't feel too bad though it's hard to resist massive "lifestyle" marketing... makes money for providers not users
Get rid of it and get yourself a Raptor R or a TRX. You’ll smile more 😊
I done videos on the TRX I'd rather have an electric truck
Actually, you lost less money from returning your truck after another year then selling it to Carmax. Once the cheap electric vehicle comes out in twenty twenty five, this expensive electric vehicle will lose much more value. It will be a bloodbath.
This is misleading.. U as an early customer had 20% off plus the 7500 off (assuming you qualify which many did with the old tax law)
I was not an early customer
I've only made it halfway through the vid. Did you just show a clip of the urinal at Carmax? You didn't just show a clip of the urinal at Carmax......what the. If a clean urinal is a selling point...where are we?? Also, is it not enough to say something more nebulous about Carmax? I mean, how was the chair you sat in while speaking to them? What the hell.
Did the same thing a couple weeks ago. We have similar trucks except I have 21" road tires. I went to Carmax and was quoted $50K and I only have 7,300 miles. Wife wants to replace our Model X (Tesla buyback) with a Cybertruck but she doesn't want two trucks on the driveway. Looks like we're keeping the Rivian and I'm happy.
We leased it because it's our first truck and we just wanted to see if we can use the utility. First two months, we can't live without it. Didn't realize how much we used the "truck" part of the truck.
th-cam.com/video/8g0t7u9-fEQ/w-d-xo.html
Well I guess we know who fed it and who ate it.
Spaulding! Get your foot off the boat!
This is a horrible take on leasing due to being uninformed on how leasing works when this vehicle was purchased.
Wait. Where is the part when you take the truck to carmax?
I didn't want to film while I was there but I shared what they offered
Basically starts at 4:50
Its not even an R1T Quad Motor. Man, you got ripped.
new quad motor rivians are having issues. dual motor rivians have the better battery fwiw
@ not true. Gen1 Quad Motors have no issues with their motors.
why does anyone lease? Such a waste of money.
It's not a waste of money if you are playing it right and it appears that @Gjeebs is playing it right. He said that the residual (what the lease payment was calculated on) is 62K but the actual value would be about 40K. That is 22K in depreciation that Rivian will be eating and not @Gjeebs. Well done!
It will be worth nothing is the answer. You will have to pay to turn it in.
Never finance a electric vehicle they hold absolutely no value you will always be underwater with financing . just lease it for 3 or 4 years and get a new one when the lease is up.
Junk
Hey!! This car sucks and loses it's value like crazy!! I'll leave a link to purchase one in the description below!!🤣🤣 I do like the channel though.
Lease is a 5 letter word for rent. Unless you own a business or are financially well off DON’T LEASE.
Let's be real. You're a TH-camr and your lease payments are a business expense.
Correct as was stated in this video and others