It's easy to get around Mars. They are just going to build tunnels with super-fast, autonomous, 16-seat vehicles inside. Well, it could just start out as Teslas in tunnels, but that's more profound than it sounds! ;)
You're a genius. I would have never have been able to come up with that myself. The idea of using Tesla's to start with is fantastic. Think how fast that they would be able to go in an environment with such low atmospheric pressure! It would be like a Hyperloop but not a Hyperloop! Not only that, Mar's atmosphere is predominately made up of C02. A Tesla up there would be so much greener (redder?) than a Tesla on Earth. I know that you came up with the idea and I don't want to seem just like someone who is hopping on your bandwagon but have you considered LED lighting? Perhaps some gaming machines appropriately placed in close proximity to the Tesla station? Have you considered employing a narcissistic loon to help pitch the idea? It's worked before! I don't want to come across as being a negative Nelly but I think your idea of having a 16 seat autonomous vehicle is a little ambitious. A one seat autistic vehicle might be worth some consideration, however. I've never heard of a 16 seat vehicle safely operating in a tunnel before, it sounds dangerous. So much to consider. Oh well, they're my two bobs worth, I wont bore you any longer as I don't want you to think that I'm Boring Company. Have a nice day and just remember; Cosmic radiation is no laughing matter!
Cmon now. Be a little realistic and have some respect for the big mans intelligence. It’s uneven terrain so we will have to use cybertrucks. South ice caps here we come!
Actually been quite a lively discussion over on NSF (nasaspaceflight-dot-com) on long distance travel/transport for Mars the last couple of months. Long distance automated/manual control "rover-trains" was my contribution but there's a lot of "hyperloop-without-the-vacuum tube" (but it's "not-a-train" :) ) and aircraft supporters. You'd probably be surprised at the number of "Starship-point-to-point because it makes so much 'sense' for Earth" folks there are :)
I just noticed, after watching this the second time, the kids were wearing space suits. How many space suits would you need to make for a growing child? Twenty, thirty, what a nightmare that would be to deal with.
And they will not be able to carry them... Adult suit is around 100 kg... Moon gravity is about 15% of that on Earth, but on Mars it's around 40%. So 100 kg on Earth feels like 15 kg on the Moon but like 40 kg on Mars - not a small amount for the ordinary person...
"Hey Mars bro, wow, your kid is a big lad." "Yep, he's 7ft2." "Not bad for a ten year old." "The doctors hope he'll get to 8ft but that's assuming his leukaemia treatment is successful."
Living on Mars or the moon will be like living with chronic illness: continuous health monitoring, frequent doses of medication, and severe restrictions on activities. To want to bring a child to life on Mars is like wanting to have a child born with diabetes or an immune disorder.
Some people are ok with using their kids for their own grand plans and dreams, like the dream of colonization of other planets. Of course, the child may never share those dreams and may just return on Earth when grows up, and won't ask parents about their opinion lol
If we are ever going to send people to Mars (and we absolutely shouldn’t), they must be extremely psychologically sound in order to cope with the stresses of the mission. Which is a bit of a problem when to any sane person it’s a death sentence. Or, to mangle the Douglas Adams quote: “one of the many major problems with [sending people to Mars] is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who most want to [go to Mars] are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.”
5:52 Kapton tape, we use it in SMD production to shield soldering joints when we send the PCB's through a vapour phase oven. We also use it since it's very, very thin and leaves little to no marks on components or the PCB. Handy stuff.
The problem is that we're dealing with things that are difficult for people to even grasp. We look at all the scientific and technological marvels we've already achieved and think that it's not a big leap to do something like colonizing Mars. But in reality, we would need some incredible technological breakthroughs beyond anything that's ever been achieved. We might even need to discover brand new branches of science to serve as the basis for the kind of technology we'd need.
Sad part is, that Iron Man movies ( 1 and 3 ) had actually shown more struggle with fictional technology than most of these people did with existing ones.
Not so sure we need all that much development as much as we need to actually sit down and develop a PLAN for what we want to do. There's a LOT of technology and science that can be applied to surviving, living and even thriving off-Earth but it's not simple or easy as is made out to be. Again most of this could be and very much should be 'proven' on Earth first as it would be relatively 'easier' and 'cheaper' to do so but there are those who are impatient and not willing to "wait" to lay the proper ground work to be successful.
@@randycampbell6307 Except there are things you can't test on earth, like a low gravity environment. We don't know how well humans and other lifeforms we plan to bring to Mars would adapt to low gravity. What's going to happen if we try to grow crops or breed livestock on Mars? What's going to happen when we try to have human offspring on Mars? It's possible that humans can never adapt to the low gravity environment. We might need some of that Star Trek/Wars artificial gravity technology. Otherwise, we may need to genetically modify life specifically suited for that kind of environment.
@@KingOfMadCows There are very, very few things that you can't 'test' on Earth. Frankly gravity is the only one that comes to mind really and it's actually the LEAST of the issues. Check out some of Isaac Arthur's off-Earth colonization videos to see just how far some of the more 'real' planning has gotten towards solutions for some of the actual problems. (While it sounds wild there have actually been engineering studies done on essentially rotating the living sections of the 'city' to produce near-earth like gravity) You have SO many more things that need demonstration that not even suggesting doing so, (and btw, Devon island and the MDRS are NOT viable analogs for anything other than some very 'basic' first-in exploration missions) is pretty well tantamount to not being serious at all about going. This is nothing new, we did it for going into space initially and for going to the Moon and that work made the actual 'doing' vastly safer and easier. There is literally no excuse not to.
I think the biggest question with all of this would be the "why?". If Mars had some magic element that could make Musk's neuro links work as described I'd take the issue as more than a hobby but leaving earth for the sake of blue sunsets is laughable.
They usually claim it's in order to increase the long term survival of our species in case some event would somehow make Earth less inhabitable than mars.
@@luciengrondin5802 ...and that's the problem since it is very unlikely that a colony on Mars would be able to survive anything that actually made the Earth uninhabitable for humans. The ACTUAL idea is to make humanity a 'multi-planet' species living on more than one planet in the Solar System with the ACTUAL (but unspoken) caveat that is an assumption that by going to Mars the infrastructure and capability to open up the Solar System (making humanity a "Space Faring" species) will be established. The fact that Musk's "plan" (like Zubrin's Mars Direct before it) neither does not establish such an infrastructure nor does it encourage doing so is totally lost on those who blindly support this. Establishing an actual Space Faring infrastructure will in fact go further towards mitigating and preventing most of the 'disasters' that could wipe out humanity on Earth than having a 'simple' self-supporting colony on Mars ever would. But as that does not fit the narrative, (or frankly the direct desire of many) of "Mars will save us) that option is either pushed further down the 'road' or more likely ignored entirely.
You are actually not far off about "some magic element." IF Mars has any abundance of Rare-Earth-Elements, called lanthanides, then Mars can truly be a hub for major manufacturing processes for many products such as computer components. Imagine a label on your laptop saying "Made On Mars". Getting REEs on our own planet is getting more difficult and we are reducing our natural supply. A lot of these materials are in China, but we do not need to discuss the socio-political aspects of that. The effort it will take to make the infrastructure and supply chains required would be monumentally enormous, but once it is in place we could potentially have at least a millennia of resources to plunder from Mars. I welcome any thoughts on this topic.
@@browsingstuffaimlessly4663 Take a moment and look at the amount of supporting industries that are required to make computer components. Now imagine having to ship ALL that infrastructure and industry to Mars to even begin to manufacture such components and then ship them to Earth for ANY reasonable cost. REE's are NOT that rare, or would they ever be even economically to lift off Mars and return to Earth for use in manufacturing which itself would be orders of magnitude cheaper than trying to manufacture them on Mars. Now keep in mind it "might" be more 'economic' to try and ship oil and gas from Titan to Earth than Martian materials to Earth. (And that is itself vastly unlikely but also more plausible being it could be more easily automated) REE's are no where near 'magic' enough (which is why that term is used in fact because so far NOTHING out there is worth trying to bring back, let alone set up off-Earth manufacturing) to make a difference.
Angry is this goofy guy that has his child-like quirks and obsessions about mars manned missions, sitting at the dinner table and pretending its a spaceship and the white plate is the steering wheel while making "shuuuuooosh" sounds "flying" in space. ☺
Seems like the odd uncle that just hasn't been the same since losing his job at the brewery after the" head trauma thing" "Sons of Bitches have taken all my hopes and dreams....but I'll have Mars damn you" Yells Angry as he leaps from the roof in his long underwear
I share his desire and excitement for humanity to be space fairing. I just let those pesky facts temper my feelings, it might never be worth it to leave this gravity well when we can make machines specially tailored to do any worthwhile needs out there...
I do not think that children should be born on Mars. The adults that take the journey to Mars, chose to go there. A child born on Mars, didn't have a choice; they will be condemned to living in pressure domes and having to wear a space suit, to go outside...forever. I can imagine them looking at videos of Earth children running and playing at the beach; crying their eyes out. Mars is no place for children.
Agreed. And could you imagine being the first person to carry to term only to find out the child has no bones, or a weak heart, or some radiation-induced deformity?
That was debated by British Space Society as far back as 50s when considering generational ship. On the other hand, same principle applies here on Earth - child barely has say in being born in a first place, and than country, time and circumstance it is born into. Though I'd agree that at very least any breeding outside Earth should be avodied.
Well, it makes total sense, but tell that to numerous pro-natalist people, who believe, that human reproduction is always a good thing, for both a child and a parents and who think that people should never be criticized for the decision to reproduce...
There's an obvious problem with robot dogs carrying the oxygen supply: native Martian robot cats - imagine what would happen if the robot dog encountered a robot cat? Bad news....
"Early adopting" living on Mars will be soo cool. Many selfie options. And then death. Maybe a good choice to get rid of some obnoxious "influencers"? ;-)
"Golgafrincham was a planet, once home to the Great Circling Poets of Arium. The descendants of these poets made up tales of impending doom about the planet. The tales varied; some said it was going to crash into the sun, or the moon was going to crash into the planet. Others said the planet was to be invaded by twelve-foot piranha bees and still others said it was in danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star-goat. [...] These tales of impending doom allowed the Golgafrinchans to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population. The story was that they would build three Ark ships. Into the A ship would go all the leaders, scientists and other high achievers. The C ship would contain all the people who made things and did things [...] The B ship was filled with all the middlemen of Golgafrincham, such as the telephone sanitisers, account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, and management consultants. [...] They sent the B ship off first, but of course, the other two-thirds of the population stayed on the planet ... " Douglas Adams was a visionary, but even he couldn't imagine "influencer" would be a thing today. -.-
In defense of kurzgesagt @ 15:50 they did say in that video there needed to be mountains of prerequisites before inhabiting Mars. Including a functioning lunar outpost and a full scan of the planet. They also said initial, manned missions would need to be with trained astronauts to set up suitable infrastructure before beginning to think about civilian colonies.
@@constantinethecataphract5949 most likely would be an industrial facility of some kind with totally automated or very small crew. Refinery that needs a ore stable foundation perhaps
I used to watch him a lot and after finding this channel I see a lot of errors and misinformation by him. Youve took every one and provided actual science. You deserve more subs and likes.
The mechanical counterpressure suit is a particular fixation of space cadets, I believe it stems from reading too much Heinlein 'Have space suit - Will travel'. I've debated the extensive downsides and deficiencies in the concept to no avail, it's all part of a clear pattern to latch onto half-baked concepts and claim that 'if only' the 'bean counters' had not 'suppressed' this technology we would be living the buck rogers future now. Favorites include Nuclear thermal rockets and Sea Dragon.
AFAIK, Heinlein's suit wasn't an MCP system. But yes, there is still a ton of problems with it. Notably the fact that it has a weird and potentially very risky system to help the astronauts breathe.
Thank you for making this. The last few minutes especially sound exactly like what I’ve been screaming in my head for what seems like the last ten years. Going to the moon has always been the first step. If we can do it there, we can do it in other locations. But we have to prove we can do it there first.
If hypothetically you could build a lunar base and expand it over time then eventually you could manufacture rockets there. Be a lot easier to escape Moon gravity than Earth's so less fuel required for trips.
@@rob338 Ayep, I love how people think because NASA went to the Moon 50 plus years ago, Mars is trivial for us today. Hubris can be funny at times, Solar Roadways it's super easy! Maybe if you can drive only east and west at a 45 degree angle... *sigh*
The bio suit, or pressurized tension skin suit, has been around since the 50’s. Early ones were built out of ace bandage material. They are great for flexibility (seen folks in vac tests in them pedal bikes, climb ladders, work with hand tools,etc with speed and comfort unknown with any other suit), don’t need the exotic cooling systems or sweat wicking, and should be cheaper and easier. You’ld essentially need a backpack with about half what’s in a standard suits back pack. Mostly commercial diver oxygen recycling diving gear. Agree angry is being a idiot. Frankly seeing his icon on your thumbnail made me pass over this series a couple times until I saw your authorship, since I know he’s just to dumb to waste time with. O’Niell colonies are the way to go. ;)
Good video Skep I liked the way you also presented ideas for what would actually need to be done before implementing new technology on Mars. Such as experimenting on the Moon first. Such as having success with settlements in Arctic habitats before sending humans anywhere for any planned long term stay. These ideas you talked about are not new ideas, but they do need to be paid more attention to.
@@threehead99 On mobile there is a "Live Chat" button right below the video. On desktop there is a "Show Chat Replay" button to the right of the video.
I had to stop and look up Dava The Magic Spacesuit Lady, she's just like I imagined.......She's the type that if she's alive 20 years from now she'll still be telling people it could have worked if only "they" didn't hold her back.
Took some time to watch this half. Loved how you ended it with the general critique concerning space news and the colonization of Mars. We all need a reality check from time to time. Can't wait for the 1 year anniversary! 🥳🥳
Keys to space exploration and "colonization": 1) A space harbor to build or upgrafmde equipment in space 2) Genetically engineer humans or "proxies" capable of surviving those enviroments, we arent going nowhere.
If your seriously wondering... yeah good question. I mean, when stuff like angry's is so easy to come by, why even bother debunking him? It feels like we'd be better off collecting money to elect a pro-science senator... in like 10 years.
@@MaestroAlvis I assume it's because Angry is the most obvious in being almost exclusively pro-SpaceX, conjures the weakest defenses, and is the easiest to provoke because he also benefits from drama. Most other optimistic space channels tend to be pro-ALL space companies, which makes them less desirable for a small channel like this trying to coax someone with a bigger following to call them out. Remember, the trick to getting views through manufactured drama is to only go after someone ideologically extreme, and who is worse at fact checking than you are ;P
@@z-beeblebrox No it's because a lot of people think like Angry, they have these illusions about life. The same people that give money to total scams on crowdfunding websites are the same people that think humans can colonize mars, it is not going to happen not now and not in the future. Mars is a dead planet, it's core stopped rotating and became a solid rock it's totally dead. There is no reason to go there, it is a dead desert planet. It has very few resources, very barren landscape and nothing to offer humanity at all except eventual death. All of the money and resources used to go to Mars are better allocating to protecting our own planet and not some total fantasy about Mars.
Another error made by the Angry Astronaut that was not covered in this series: he is speaking into his Blue Yeti microphone with it facing backwards. The Yeti can still directly pick up his voice if he's using the bi-directional or omni-directional patterns. But since both patterns will also pick up sounds from directions other than where he is speaking, this still suboptimal. Fellas, read the manuals for your equipment. The Blue Yeti is a very popular microphone, so a lot of people will notice if you appear on camera using it incorrectly. Don't speak into it backwards, and definitely don't try to speak into it from the top. It's a side-address microphone and the front of the microphone should be facing you, not the camera.
I really appreciate this channel. I stumbled upon it in my personal quest to rationalize E.M.’s megalomania and found a trove of material to satisfy that, but there is so much more here; it is vital that scientific research maintains a healthy level of skepticism and full on criticism toward it because that is what determines a sound theory or not, and it helps save time [in the long run], resources, and lives. I subbed and look forward to digesting the rest of the videos this channel has to offer.
The biosuit has been in development hell since at least the 90's I think. I remember reading a Discover article (back when that mag was decent at science reporting) way back when of a suit that kept you together with compression rather than air pressure. So this idea has been around for at least 30 years.
I didn't mention it last time, but thank you for finally getting rid of the echo :) Sounds like you are in a much less spacy hall or you have done good on the isolation department finally. I'm pretty sure you noticed yourself how this has increased your overall sound quality and how your articulation translates.
I have never seen a comments section in such unanimous agreement. It leads me to believe peace on earth is a more attainable goal than sustainable life on mars. Common sense, great job!
Just rewatching this I had a few thoughts about the "Bio suit". I scuba dive in temperate (i.e. cold, but not frozen) water around the UK and Ireland, so thought I'd share a few thoughts from that perspective. 1. Rebreathers are non-trivial pieces of kit. As anyone who dives with one for sport will say, "It's great when it's not trying to kill me". If you want to design a space suit, you *start* with the rebreather and build everything else around it. It's the most complex and essential part of the life support system. 2. Personal rebreathers for both divers and astronauts burn through consumables. Aside from pure O2, needed to inject oxygen into the loop to replace that metabolised by the human body (around 1 litre per minute for a diver not under stress or exertion and who is weightless in her environment), there is the CO2 "scrubber" material. For divers, this is typically "Sofnolime" (a granulated solid form of Calcium oxide, water, sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide), though I believe in space applications they tend to use lithium hydroxide instead. Whichever system is used, the consumables will need frequent replacement. So, either tons of the stuff must be shipped from Earth, or it'll need to be produced on Mars. 3. Mars isn't space. It has an atmosphere. Not a great one, but enough to conduct *heat*. Wetsuits that resemble the "bio suit" really aren't used much outside the tropics. I'm not an astronomy expert, but I don't think Mars has a climate like the tropics of Earth. My understanding is it's *frikkin cold*. Most people who dive in cold, temperate waters use a drysuit. A drysuit, rather than being some sexy form fitting thing, works by being a loose somewhat baggy thing with watertight seals around the wrists and neck (the feet are usually integrated) and a watertight zip to get in and out. It's pressurised with air to the same pressure as the surrounding water, and underneath it the diver wears specially made warm, moisture wicking underclothes that resemble a jumpsuit. There are one way valves to allow the diver to dump excess air, and an inlet valve to add air to the suit from the SCUBA system. Does this sound like the Bio-suit, or like something else... something perhaps, that NASA and Roscmos have been using for decades? 4. A drysuit, unlike a wetsuit, allows a diver to extend her "run time" on a dive, for example, to allow for decompression stops, or for a long winded task such as surveying. This is possible because the space in the suit allows for a "P-valve" and hookup system that lets the diver take a bathroom break at depth, and as well as for electrically heated clothing to be worn, commonly a vest - but gloves and socks as well. Again, stuff that someone on a Mars EVA will needs much more than a needlessly skintight outfit. 5. Random question, how the hell is that helmet meant to work? That seal does *not* look airtight. While the helmet pressure being much higher than ambient will stop the Mars atmosphere ingressing into the helmet, it's going to be leaking O2 like nobody's business. TL;DR Mars colonists on EVA would look like astronauts on EVA and their habitats will look more like the ISS brought to the ground with a mole hill of dirt slung over it than some modern trendy Byron Bay rainforest retreat.
13:51 Probably the most important statement about these fantasies surrounding Mars. I'm actually subscribed to Angry but now I'm questioning his validity (and my subscription) especially after the first video. Though I give him credit for helping me find CSS. If it weren't for that video where he first mentioned CSS I wouldn't have known he exist. So now I'm a subscriber. Funny how that works.
@@judedornisch4946 No need to look deeper. He does have some interesting videos but he needs to ground himself in the realm of reality especially when it comes to Mars. As for an advocate I'm not sure what you mean unless you're referring to Mars. I'm an advocate for Venus but it does not mean it can be colonized nor terraformed. Though I view it as a better candidate than Mars (gravity, atmosphere, distance, etc.).
1 bar of pressure is almost exactly 10 metric tons per square metre. So, that means a 1-metre square window places ten tons of pressure on the inside. When was the last time you tried to build a window which would hold in 10-tons of pressure? Let's look at a 100-metre diameter hemispherical dome, made from stuff like Transparent Aluminium which typically costs around $15,500 per square metre - AND weighs the same as aluminium. Now, that dome has a surface area of 31,415 square metres. The window panels, at 1-square metre each would cost a total of $483 million dollars - and that's just the manufacturing cost on earth - let alone the cost to get the stuff to Mars, and build the 100m dome. But how are you going to attach the dome to the ground? The pressure inside it will want to lift it off the ground. And the force trying to lift it is equivalent to 31,415 * 10 tons, or 314,150 tons. We have to add the pressure on the floor also, and that area is 7,854 sqm - so we add another 78,540 tons to the total to make a grand total of 392,690 tons of internal pressure That is FOUR times the mass of a nuclear aircraft carrier. Now, imagine trying to take something 100 metres across, which weighs four times what an aircraft carrier does, and try to attach it to a ceiling of a very large building. Now you are beginning to comprehend the power of air pressure. This same air pressure differential, as in a 4-metre diameter vacuum tube (like a Hyperloop for example) creates an air-hammer with a yield of 40-Gigajoules - which compares very favourably to the USA's most powerful non-nuclear bomb, the MOAB (Mother Of Allk Bombs) which has a 41-Gigajoule yield. This air-hammer effect is the one thing (if only one was required) which means the Hyperloop can never be built, and if it ever is, then a single stick of dynamite will destroy the entire system, killing everyone on it, as well as destroying all the stations along the way. A hyperloop is, by definition, the world's most expensive single-use mass murder machine.
Well, it's the pressure we've evolved to survive at. If Earth had the same atmospheric pressure as Venus, then storms on Earth would be extremely deadly catastrophes.
Biosphere 2 is basically the answer to most questions that are raised about Mars. It was a total failure and it was possibly the easiest potential scenario.
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot Biosphere II was very expensive and arguably, (it was even argued at the time) not the best way to try and create a closed-loop system. There have been smaller and more successful experiments done but none have tried for a single run of such a length mostly because of the sociological issues with the crew of Biosphere II and the need to better understand connected bio-systems. Biosphere II is arguably not compatible or even analogous to what's needed or wanted to live off-Earth, short of an "O'Neil" colony type set up. Using it as proof for or against a bio-based closed-loop system is disingenuous at best and highly misleading at worst.
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot Several Russian and Chinese isolation and life support experiments. Several carried out by NASA and the ESA with closed-loop life support test runs. None of course has tried to run two years in a single experiment but that's kind of the point to slowly build up experience and capability.
Bravo CSS!!! Angry is the very definition of "Fake News". Love the delivery of this very informative piece of actual research and in closing the suggestion to have those who promise to get anyone to Mars "go themselves and do the dying for is" is the best "put your money where your mouth is" point!😂
Hey, to be fair the Kurzgeseagt video actually points out how extremely difficult this all is and all the testing that will need to be done on earth and the moon!
"Timmy" doesn't GET a "spacesuit" and the pictures and other fantasy art showing kids in space suits, while cute, if utterly unrealistic. "Timmy" gets quite used to getting stuffed into a "rescue ball" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Rescue_Enclosure) on a regular basis for 'emergency drills' and being satisfied with the "Great Indoors" of the habitat, (which needs to be designed for and experimented with) to grow up and play in for most of his life. PEOPLE are going to spend most of their time INSIDE a habitat, (and pregnant women and young children even more so) and only rarely go 'outside" if their particular job requires it. And going 'outside' won't be a 'treat' it will be a long, grueling process with a high danger factor and a lot of effort, both going out and coming back in. (One reason 'individual dwellings' like Marsha make absolutely no sense)
A thing right for the end, you mentioned about colonising the Moon and the Artemis program (which I do hope works out in the long run), and I was wondering if you could basically do a "Why the Dynetics lander should have won the competition instead of Space-X and the "Lunar Starship" which undercut the competition by overpromising and undedrselling." Bit of a mouthful so you can cut it down of you want, but I am still upset about it, because Space-X dropped the price of their bid by around 800 million US dollars to be able to win that contract, and yet they didn't have the best lander. I'm annoyed just how much of space exploration comes down to politics but as shown time and time again, there is no way it is feesible for a company to be doing space exploration, sure they can build the parts, but the funding for such a thing has to come from a national government lest the company bankrupt itself.
Dynetics had the problem that it was overweight from the start with it barely meeting the requirements so that reducing the weight would also reduce the safety and utility of the lander. I liked it but it needed to be trimmed down a lot which wasn't arguably possible given the budget and timetable. Similarly the National Team lander wasn't cost effective and had several operational issues (some which Lunar Starship not only share but are much worse) as well as being mostly expendable from the start with no real attempt at reusablity which was a requirement itself. SpaceX's Lunar Starship was obviously underbid, (requiring a lot of infrastructure and operations that are not "included" in the price but 'assumed' in the Starship operational planning anyway) but it's not essentially much 'advanced' over the "Starships" that SpaceX is currently flying. (And crashing) I don't agree with awarding SpaceX the HLS contract as a sole source but frankly NASA didn't have the budget to award either of the other landers the contract, which was part of the point. Congress will likely 'mandate' a second award and will then have to support that with an increased budget on the HLS system. (Or not as I'm still not convinced that Congress is really willing to pay for Lunar missions again anyway)
Another problem with flying a balloon anywhere is that a balloon sort of requires a thick atmosphere to function. The less atmospheric density, the lower the more displacement is needed for every kg of lift. You'd need a dirigible to lift a picnic basket on Mars.
So thankful for people like you, Dave, Thunderf00t. The amount of stupid shit in this world is staggering but, at least we have you guys to illuminate all the bullshit around us.
Who's Dave? I'm only just finding my way round this small pocket of the world that isn't gullible enough to buy into con merchants peddling laughably fantasaical bs.
Right off the bat on the Biosuit you're wrong, and more right than you know :) You also didn't do your 'research' on the concept other than the obvious points directly related to comparison of the suits. Lets start off on how long this suit has been in development. Not 21 years but over 50 with the main constraint being materials available to provide the counter-pressure. While the initial concepts designs and work was done in the late 50s and early 60s the work didn't really advance till the mid-to-late 70s with the NASA sponsored "Space Activity Suit" which itself was held back by the lack of materials but at least got some vacuum chamber work done and proved out many of the features and advantages as well as problem areas to work on. The Biosuit has vastly more advanced materials to work with which has greatly advanced the concept. (Yes in fact they DO have a diaper under the suit btw) At 0:612: you show a great comparison picture of the difference between the balloon pressure suit and the Mechanical Counter-Pressure suit (MCP as it is technically called) and while Angry gets a lot wrong so do you. Note the oxygen tanks in the picture on the right. Note how much of the PLSS on the suit is NOT air but other life support needs like cooling. In the MCP you only need the oxygen tanks, hence there is little need to have much more than a divers air tank system for providing a proper breathing mix. What about cooling and such? The MCP regulates by sweating which is wicked away through the porous suit materials so the more cumbersome PLSS pack is not needed. (Yes one of the areas of work on the Biosuit is ways to retain and recycle the 'sweat' moisture in a vacuum as the body loss rate of water is higher even though the body 'work-load' is vastly less than in a balloon suit) You're correct on the contamination issue though I should point out that it's quite possible in an MCP design to have a 'coverall' outer garment that can be stripped in a vestibule of the airlock to greatly reduce the issue. (Keep in mind on that issue that the MCP allows better range of movement and flexibility which itself allows vastly improved options for contamination mitigation actions. Having spent over 20 years training and practicing contamination mitigation efforts in bulky, uncomfortable and restrictive "suits" {CBN protective suits} I can assure you there are more than a few methods to reduce the issues. They aren't easy and they aren't going to be as quick as a 'suit-port' but they very much exist) Right now NASA is focused on near-term space suits but have been very impressed with various MCP designs and efforts and are currently seeking a way to make a 'hybrid' suit that will combine things like MCP gloves with a partial or full pressure (balloon) suit as the MCP bits allow longer and more comfortable use but the partial or full pressure suit technology is more mature. Full MCP suits have several requirements that would require some major changes to both spacecraft design and EVA planning if fully implemented but also have some major and long-term advantages. Angry is very wrong on NASA support and development but he's also very wrong on implementation and usage of the MCP suits themselves as many are given the general lack of knowledge of the history and development of the concept.
You could not be more wrong on "parents of martians staying behind to die with their children"...any two people who'd choose to have children on Mars(assuming its possible) would totally leave their kids to die for their survival...absolutely love this channel great job
The comparison in the first video of Mars to Antarctica is very accurate, probably moreso than Mr. Everest. The utter isolation of Antarctica, and the fact that not only is your immediate environment utterly inhospitable to human life, but that the environment all around you for a practically infinite distance (i.e. further than you could ever hope to reach with the resources on hand) is a perfect analogue. If you don't want to spend the rest of your life on the Antarctic ice cap, eking out existence in your survival shelter with meagre rations of whatever may or may not arrive on the next supply drop (and hoping and praying that the supply drop will come), then you don't want to live on Mars either. Literally the only case I can see for people spending any length of time on Mars is exactly the same as for Antarctica - as a fixed duration stay to carry out scientific work. Unlike the moon, which could conceivably have a role beyond pure scientific curiosity, Mars is resource poor in just about everything that we could conceivably want. It's energy poor, water poor AND mineral poor. What precious little resources it does have are located underneath a crappy atmosphere that is unbreathable, has no elements of value, and is too thin to allow for fully aerobraked landings, but thick enough to demand bulky, heavy heatshields and to get in the way of effective launches.
2:15 As a woman that size who lives up north, I wouldn't trust that thing to keep me warm even on a chilly Earth day...much less keep me warm in space or on Mars! I don't care what fabric it's made of...You need layers of clothing, you need space in between them, and your skin, in order to stay warm. And that's just temperature, on Earth! That suit is a joke, I just can't take it seriously.
At 3:07 was all I needed to see about this "Biosuit"...its got a Dainese motorcycle logo's all over the suit, last time i checked they didn't have "spacesuits" as part of their product lineup, just 1 piece leathers designed for coming off your motorcycle at high speeds...so not great for 20+ years of development on an aerospace product.
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot I get that, and as a Biker myself i wouldn't mind having Dainese leathers to crash in myself...BUT having them make a spacesuit...its a whole different ballgame lol
@@weegaz22 They didn't make the 'spacesuit' only the outer covering layer. MCP's need multiple layers of 'ply' material to provide the needed counter-pressure and frankly the wrappings look fugly to be honest so they 'dressed' the outer layer up for the demos and presentations. And as I keep telling people about MCP's imagine your parents in spandex and you understand WHY the 'outer-layer' is so important :)
There once was a part of me that thought I could cope with a trip to Mars. Mind you, I don't think even visiting Mars is a real possibility until we can make the trip in two weeks each way. If this pandemic has proven anything to me, it's that even with my 30-60 day Martian visit timeline, I'd go crazy long before the mission is complete. I mean that literally. I'd lose my ability to function.
Actually no matter what once they are there they're stuck there for 2 whole years due to the planetary orbital dynamics. We launch to Mars as it's catching up to Earth and use Earth's speed to throw ourselves out to meet it. Doesn't matter how fast your drives are, by the time you reach Mars Earth is already getting farther away from you and you have nothing to give you that speed fast enough.
@@mondianijoli9080 no while Mars does have some gravity we still aren't certain if that is good enough for that period of time length (they might still need spinning habitats for it to truly be liveable). We still don't know if Mars like gravity will prevent things like loss of sight, blood flow reversal, bone loss, etc that Zero G does. Likely is it won't be as bad but probably still pretty bad. Radiation is basically just as bad on Mars as in open space. Mars has an atmosphere but it's too scant to block weak level cosmic rays and the strong cosmic rays easily make it onto Earth's surface when the magnetic field is weakened. Mars has almost no magnetic field period and the one it does has is irregular and doesn't protect the majority of the planet. Currently to be safe from radiation you basically need to build Martian bases under at least 2 meters of rock. Even still that's not nearly as good as our atmosphere and magnetic field at protecting us from radiation. For equal radiation shielding we're talking being nearly 10 meters deep underground.
@@Skylancer727 When I say we have to be able to travel one-way in 2 weeks time, I mean including all the orbital dynamics. I understand that will require forms of propulsion that have yet to be invented.
I don't have a problem with transit times on the order of 5 to 6 months. Provide that the transit vehicle is specialised as a transit vehicle - it doesn't land on a planet - then its possible to engineer it to have a modest level of spin gravity (0.4 to 0.8gs). It is also possible to reduce the exposure to background radiation with radiation absorbing materials close to the bodies of the crew (suits, furniture). It won't be perfect and it would only be ethical for a hardened volunteer crew, but its doable. The real issue is length of stay on Mars. Short stay missions (a month or so) are possible, but are also very limiting in what you can do. I'd prefer to deal with the issue of radiation on Mars itself by first learning how to send robotic miners (much like Earthly roadheaders). And then putting the hab modules onto tracks and parking them in man made caves. Yes, all of this expensive! Short transits are in the realm of future propulsion I'm afraid. You can't rely on aerobraking because at the velocities involved, nothing will protect you and the g forces will squash you anyhow. You need propulsion for braking. Gimme fusion! :)
Excellent videos about Angry. As the last video pointed out, a steady step-by-step process to developing technologies for human space exploration is the best way to go. Not understanding this is the main problem with Angry and other extreme overly optimistic futurists. - Putting 1 million people on Mars will take hundreds of years not 10 to 20 years. Step one, develop Space habitat technology on earth. Step two, put the technology into low earth orbit on the ISS. Step three, put the habitat technology on the Moon and perfect it there. Get to a point where 5000 human beings are living on the Moon. This will take decades. After all that, then humanity can think about building a colony on Mars.
One thing I always love to point out about exploration is that it is slow. Your vehicle will be like a 4x4 in the middle of nowhere. When most people think of a 4x4 they think of something like a Jeep or a Raptor driving down a dirt road. Here you won't have that. You will be lucky to get over 10mph for safety and bouncing reasons and your energy consumption will be enormous. Remember that most 4x4s get terrible economy while in 4x4 low, to the tune of less than a quarter of their regular range on the road. Exploration in and of itself will be a massively time consuming task to go a single mile
How will they navigate on Mars, there is no magnetic field to use a compass, no satellites to use sat positioning systems... You can easy lost the way back... Oh, you can leave breadcrumbs!!!
Those suits remind me of the ones from the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson. Good series for light science fiction. Alistair Reynolds' Revelation Space series is probably my favorite.
Loved the Mars trilogy. Heard an interview with Robinson a while back where he was saying that colonising Mars will be more complex that we (and he) thought. Considering his books are incredibly well-researched then methinks that dude knows what he's talking about.
@@rob338 Yeah, that's why I like Alastair Reynolds, he learned a PhD in Astrophysics, and actually worked for the ESA. He left the ESA around 2005? To write full time, I'd look it up but the lazyness is strong with this one. His books can start of pretty dry, but they're amazing in my opinion, especially the audiobooks narrated by John Lee. Peter F. Hamilton, Adrian Tchaikovsky, and James S. A. Corey are pretty good too. James S. A. Corey's Expanse book series is much better than the show, but that's how it usually goes. I can count on one hand where the movie or show was better than the book. 1. The Shawshank Redemption, 2. No County for Old Men 3. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas 4. The Silence of the Lambs, and 5. The Shining. Crap, I have to grow another finger real quick.. 6. Blade Runner. Alot of people preferred the movie Fight Club to the book, I kinda think they're equally good on their own regards. Though, these are all my opinions, and you know what they say about those.. Be well, and may the lazyness not be with you.
@@walkingcontradiction223 Thanks for the recommends, dude. Heard good things about Reynolds, will be sure to check him out. Only seen first season of the Expanse but did quite like it, sounds like the books are worth a look, too.
4:25 to be fair the tank could be created detachable** so you leave the robot behind if necessary. Naturally they will recommend taking two or them along, just in case... *shrug* **I think I just put more though into this (almost by accident) than them.
In a recent conversation, someone stated confidently that Be-4 wasn't flight qualified yet. It was actually qualified last October and delivered to ULA in February. Musk fans seem to need to believe that Be-4 won't work, that Vulcan won't fly before Starship and that New Glenn won't get built. In fairness I should mention that Blue Origin required ULA's help to fix an issue with the engine. This may cast doubt on their ability to get New Glenn working. Musk fans don't seem to understand that Starship development is behind both SLS and Dream Chaser and way behind Vulcan. New Glenn's purported timeline is 24 months from last October which is doable -- although if that pushed out to April 2023 that would still be reasonable. Vulcan may fly before the end of the year. That might seem fast, but ULA started working on Vulcan back in 2016 whereas SpaceX didn't decide on the Starship configuration until 2 years later. ULA was building test articles for qualification testing two years ago. This was around the same time that SpaceX was doing demonstration flights with Star Hopper rather than doing the less exciting work of building a working vehicle. This is why ULA nearly has Vulcan finished whereas Starship is still floundering. Dream Chaser is scheduled to fly on Vulcan in early 2022. Again this might seem fast but Sierra Nevada started working on Dream Chaser in 2012 and did atmospheric testing back in 2017. I'm not seeing any possibility at this point for SpaceX to have a Starship prototype ready before then. The fastest I could see SpaceX having a prototype would be 18 months which would put a flight around November 2022. However, given SpaceX's track record, 24 - 30 months would probably be more realistic -- assuming they ever get serious about developing Starship. This would put the first flight at May - November 2023. That would overlap by at least a year with develop of the HLS which is almost certainly too much for SpaceX to handle, especially since they have to do the long duration version of Dragon. And of course this hinges on the lawsuit which halted the contract with SpaceX until it can be reviewed by the GAO. The Ford F-150 all electric might go on sale about the same time as the Tesla truck, but my guess is that Ford is more prepared for volume. And Freightliner's all electric semi is being tested by customers right now whereas there are only two proof of concept vehicles in existence for the Tesla Semi and both were built back in 2017. The world is passing Musk by.
ULA started work on Vulcan 2014, and the Vulcan is just a regular rocket. What SpaceX is trying to do with Starship is something completely new and it is delusional to compare the two projects. It would be an insane feat if SpaceX pulls it off within the next 10 years. Any sooner than that is just bonus.
@@slaphappyduplenty2436 A boring, old technology rocket that flies is considerably better than one that will never be operational. I'll say again that Vulcan and New Glenn will both be operational before Starship.
@@slaphappyduplenty2436 also you believe Musk's LIES that starship will carry 100 people? It's shown by simple logic that it will barely be comfortable with 16 people. See debunking starship video.
@@scientious Blue Origin started before SpaceX and still hasn't even made it to orbit yet with anything, meanwhile, Rocket Lab, Astra, and others have. Blue Origin hasn't even built a prototype of the first stage yet, they've gone 2 years, and the only thing they built was part of a faring. Who's the delusional people here? This channel has such 'Elon Derangement Syndrome' that they believe New Glenn will be built and operational (meaning *reusable* flights) before Starship? I'll bet you $10,000 Starship Super Heavy makes it to orbit before New Glenn even has a booster moved out to a pad for testing. And I'll bet you the Super Heavy Booster makes reusable landings before New Glenn. I'm still skeptical about Starship's Heat Shield situation, so I'm willing to push that out a few years. Do we need to talk about how Crew Dragon was developed in record time, and is making regularly trips to space, while Starliner is a disaster, and even if it launches, is less capable? Oh but Musk said 100 people, or Musk said it would have a giant Atrium and Space Opera concerts. All of this nitpicking is a complete distraction. Musk overpromises and underdelivers, but what he delivers is typically far ahead of the status quo. I'll promise you something with 10 amazing features, and 7 of them actually make it to reality, the dipshits in this channel focus on the 3 claims that didn't make it, ignoring everything else. And that leads to absurdly idiotic BS like claims that the Shuttle and Falcon 9 have similar *underlying costs*. Or that reusability doesn't work. Or simping for SLS, a program ridiculously over cost and underdelivered, and whose basically technology is RS-25 engines that were already built 40 years ago and sitting on the shield, and with new ones quoted to cost $100 million each. Gimme a break. Common Sense? Common Idiocy is more like it.
After watching this - I can hear Musk talking to the first people going to Mars... "Some of you, ok.. all of you may die but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make." (Credit to Lord Farquaad)
Thanks - and the success is coming. The channel has been growing steadily for the past 18 months. Best way to keep it going is to share with everyone you think can benefit from this information.
Yes look at sunset at mars. Let us ignore the uv-radiation (no ozone layer) or look through a special sun glass which makes the sun set less impressive. What else they want to visit? Some geological formations? Nearly every country on earth has some beautiful national parks. If one has for example has no desire to visit the grand canyon, why should you exited to see some geological features on mars. Unless you are an geology enthusiast why would you stay months in a grand canyon like feature. Mars is not an exiting adventure and will feel more like the last days on a failing polar expidition.
You know how difficult the covid lockdown has been for people? There's comparables to what life on mars would be like permanently (if it were possible). Isolated with hardly anywhere to go or anything to do.
isn't the biosuit concept very old? I mean its streamlined so in a number of space conditions it would be much preferable to use then bulky awkward spacesuits. We aren't any where close to using such a suit though. The spot robots could be used as pack mules on the moon carrying emergency supplies as well as standard mission equipment for repairs of lunar structures etc. That would make sense as something NASA would be looking at for future operations.
It's easy to get around Mars. They are just going to build tunnels with super-fast, autonomous, 16-seat vehicles inside. Well, it could just start out as Teslas in tunnels, but that's more profound than it sounds! ;)
You're a genius. I would have never have been able to come up with that myself. The idea of using Tesla's to start with is fantastic. Think how fast that they would be able to go in an environment with such low atmospheric pressure! It would be like a Hyperloop but not a Hyperloop! Not only that, Mar's atmosphere is predominately made up of C02. A Tesla up there would be so much greener (redder?) than a Tesla on Earth.
I know that you came up with the idea and I don't want to seem just like someone who is hopping on your bandwagon but have you considered LED lighting? Perhaps some gaming machines appropriately placed in close proximity to the Tesla station? Have you considered employing a narcissistic loon to help pitch the idea?
It's worked before!
I don't want to come across as being a negative Nelly but I think your idea of having a 16 seat autonomous vehicle is a little ambitious. A one seat autistic vehicle might be worth some consideration, however. I've never heard of a 16 seat vehicle safely operating in a tunnel before, it sounds dangerous. So much to consider.
Oh well, they're my two bobs worth, I wont bore you any longer as I don't want you to think that I'm Boring Company.
Have a nice day and just remember; Cosmic radiation is no laughing matter!
Cmon now. Be a little realistic and have some respect for the big mans intelligence. It’s uneven terrain so we will have to use cybertrucks. South ice caps here we come!
@@skyronic42 And the cybertruck has asteroid proof glass.
Actually been quite a lively discussion over on NSF (nasaspaceflight-dot-com) on long distance travel/transport for Mars the last couple of months. Long distance automated/manual control "rover-trains" was my contribution but there's a lot of "hyperloop-without-the-vacuum tube" (but it's "not-a-train" :) ) and aircraft supporters. You'd probably be surprised at the number of "Starship-point-to-point because it makes so much 'sense' for Earth" folks there are :)
Hilarious 😆
I just noticed, after watching this the second time, the kids were wearing space suits. How many space suits would you need to make for a growing child? Twenty, thirty, what a nightmare that would be to deal with.
And they will not be able to carry them... Adult suit is around 100 kg...
Moon gravity is about 15% of that on Earth, but on Mars it's around 40%.
So 100 kg on Earth feels like 15 kg on the Moon but like 40 kg on Mars - not a small amount for the ordinary person...
I wonder if people will be able to get pregnant on Mars because other animals couldnt produce functional embryos in Space.
@@arletottens6349 Kicking the back of your seat the whole way.
@@arletottens6349 Mars ain't the kind of place to raise your kids. In fact it's cold as hell.
The suits grow as the child grows. Duh.
"Hey Mars bro, wow, your kid is a big lad."
"Yep, he's 7ft2."
"Not bad for a ten year old."
"The doctors hope he'll get to 8ft but that's assuming his leukaemia treatment is successful."
dark
And hopefully he won't be bor without a head.
"What are we going to do on Mars?"
We will watch sunsets and explore
This answer alone proves that he didn't think about this in reasonable way.
Actual answer is “worth to survive every single second you’re on Mars”.
I can do that in my local park. Though exploration probably wouldn't turn up much more than the occasional heroin addict and annoyed fox.
We already have a small population of robots doing exactly that already.
Pretty sure each hour would be spent surviving.
Angry could always make a hyperloop to get around on Mars. He's already got a vacuum
XD
The one between his ears you mean?
Vacuum sucks.
🤣 🤣 🤣, please I have laughed alot already
In his head 😂
Living on Mars or the moon will be like living with chronic illness: continuous health monitoring, frequent doses of medication, and severe restrictions on activities. To want to bring a child to life on Mars is like wanting to have a child born with diabetes or an immune disorder.
no government will allow a person or family to take a child there anyway. those people are nuts.
what future do you give a child there.
@@sadev101 look at the state of most countries and this planet. I didn't have kids because I didn't want to bring them into the Earth shit show.
@@sahhull same here so imho it should be forbidden on mars in first many decades if at all
Psychopaths apply now!
Some people are ok with using their kids for their own grand plans and dreams, like the dream of colonization of other planets. Of course, the child may never share those dreams and may just return on Earth when grows up, and won't ask parents about their opinion lol
If we are ever going to send people to Mars (and we absolutely shouldn’t), they must be extremely psychologically sound in order to cope with the stresses of the mission. Which is a bit of a problem when to any sane person it’s a death sentence. Or, to mangle the Douglas Adams quote: “one of the many major problems with [sending people to Mars] is that of whom you get to do it; or rather of who manages to get people to let them do it to them. To summarize: it is a well-known fact that those people who most want to [go to Mars] are, ipso facto, those least suited to do it.”
The old "Catch 22". For all the effort I say Titan would be a cooler place to plant the flag
Which honestly is why a Mars mission would have to be some sort of military or government operation.
5:52 Kapton tape, we use it in SMD production to shield soldering joints when we send the PCB's through a vapour phase oven. We also use it since it's very, very thin and leaves little to no marks on components or the PCB. Handy stuff.
The problem is that we're dealing with things that are difficult for people to even grasp. We look at all the scientific and technological marvels we've already achieved and think that it's not a big leap to do something like colonizing Mars. But in reality, we would need some incredible technological breakthroughs beyond anything that's ever been achieved. We might even need to discover brand new branches of science to serve as the basis for the kind of technology we'd need.
Sad part is, that Iron Man movies ( 1 and 3 ) had actually shown more struggle with fictional technology than most of these people did with existing ones.
Not so sure we need all that much development as much as we need to actually sit down and develop a PLAN for what we want to do. There's a LOT of technology and science that can be applied to surviving, living and even thriving off-Earth but it's not simple or easy as is made out to be. Again most of this could be and very much should be 'proven' on Earth first as it would be relatively 'easier' and 'cheaper' to do so but there are those who are impatient and not willing to "wait" to lay the proper ground work to be successful.
@@theultimatereductionist7592 Not only that, but most of them are not even able to maintain some of what is created...
@@randycampbell6307 Except there are things you can't test on earth, like a low gravity environment. We don't know how well humans and other lifeforms we plan to bring to Mars would adapt to low gravity. What's going to happen if we try to grow crops or breed livestock on Mars? What's going to happen when we try to have human offspring on Mars? It's possible that humans can never adapt to the low gravity environment. We might need some of that Star Trek/Wars artificial gravity technology. Otherwise, we may need to genetically modify life specifically suited for that kind of environment.
@@KingOfMadCows There are very, very few things that you can't 'test' on Earth. Frankly gravity is the only one that comes to mind really and it's actually the LEAST of the issues. Check out some of Isaac Arthur's off-Earth colonization videos to see just how far some of the more 'real' planning has gotten towards solutions for some of the actual problems. (While it sounds wild there have actually been engineering studies done on essentially rotating the living sections of the 'city' to produce near-earth like gravity)
You have SO many more things that need demonstration that not even suggesting doing so, (and btw, Devon island and the MDRS are NOT viable analogs for anything other than some very 'basic' first-in exploration missions) is pretty well tantamount to not being serious at all about going.
This is nothing new, we did it for going into space initially and for going to the Moon and that work made the actual 'doing' vastly safer and easier. There is literally no excuse not to.
I think the biggest question with all of this would be the "why?". If Mars had some magic element that could make Musk's neuro links work as described I'd take the issue as more than a hobby but leaving earth for the sake of blue sunsets is laughable.
And even if you were obscenely rich and wanted to go see those sunsets, I bet you'll be planning to not actually stick around longer than you have to.
They usually claim it's in order to increase the long term survival of our species in case some event would somehow make Earth less inhabitable than mars.
@@luciengrondin5802 ...and that's the problem since it is very unlikely that a colony on Mars would be able to survive anything that actually made the Earth uninhabitable for humans. The ACTUAL idea is to make humanity a 'multi-planet' species living on more than one planet in the Solar System with the ACTUAL (but unspoken) caveat that is an assumption that by going to Mars the infrastructure and capability to open up the Solar System (making humanity a "Space Faring" species) will be established. The fact that Musk's "plan" (like Zubrin's Mars Direct before it) neither does not establish such an infrastructure nor does it encourage doing so is totally lost on those who blindly support this.
Establishing an actual Space Faring infrastructure will in fact go further towards mitigating and preventing most of the 'disasters' that could wipe out humanity on Earth than having a 'simple' self-supporting colony on Mars ever would. But as that does not fit the narrative, (or frankly the direct desire of many) of "Mars will save us) that option is either pushed further down the 'road' or more likely ignored entirely.
You are actually not far off about "some magic element." IF Mars has any abundance of Rare-Earth-Elements, called lanthanides, then Mars can truly be a hub for major manufacturing processes for many products such as computer components. Imagine a label on your laptop saying "Made On Mars". Getting REEs on our own planet is getting more difficult and we are reducing our natural supply. A lot of these materials are in China, but we do not need to discuss the socio-political aspects of that. The effort it will take to make the infrastructure and supply chains required would be monumentally enormous, but once it is in place we could potentially have at least a millennia of resources to plunder from Mars.
I welcome any thoughts on this topic.
@@browsingstuffaimlessly4663 Take a moment and look at the amount of supporting industries that are required to make computer components. Now imagine having to ship ALL that infrastructure and industry to Mars to even begin to manufacture such components and then ship them to Earth for ANY reasonable cost. REE's are NOT that rare, or would they ever be even economically to lift off Mars and return to Earth for use in manufacturing which itself would be orders of magnitude cheaper than trying to manufacture them on Mars.
Now keep in mind it "might" be more 'economic' to try and ship oil and gas from Titan to Earth than Martian materials to Earth. (And that is itself vastly unlikely but also more plausible being it could be more easily automated)
REE's are no where near 'magic' enough (which is why that term is used in fact because so far NOTHING out there is worth trying to bring back, let alone set up off-Earth manufacturing) to make a difference.
Angry is this goofy guy that has his child-like quirks and obsessions about mars manned missions, sitting at the dinner table and pretending its a spaceship and the white plate is the steering wheel while making "shuuuuooosh" sounds "flying" in space. ☺
Seems like the odd uncle that just hasn't been the same since losing his job at the brewery after the" head trauma thing"
"Sons of Bitches have taken all my hopes and dreams....but I'll have Mars damn you"
Yells Angry as he leaps from the roof in his long underwear
Atleast the algorithm didn't send him down flat earth videos. He would have been hooked.
I share his desire and excitement for humanity to be space fairing. I just let those pesky facts temper my feelings, it might never be worth it to leave this gravity well when we can make machines specially tailored to do any worthwhile needs out there...
I do not think that children should be born on Mars.
The adults that take the journey to Mars, chose to go there.
A child born on Mars, didn't have a choice; they will be condemned to living in pressure domes and having to wear a space suit, to go outside...forever.
I can imagine them looking at videos of Earth children running and playing at the beach; crying their eyes out.
Mars is no place for children.
Agreed. And could you imagine being the first person to carry to term only to find out the child has no bones, or a weak heart, or some radiation-induced deformity?
That was debated by British Space Society as far back as 50s when considering generational ship. On the other hand, same principle applies here on Earth - child barely has say in being born in a first place, and than country, time and circumstance it is born into. Though I'd agree that at very least any breeding outside Earth should be avodied.
Would getting pregnant even be possible? What affect would the prolonged radiation exposure you'd experience on Mars have on fertility?
I wouldn't worry about it nobody is going to Mars or the Moon because Space in a shame money pit at the moment
Well, it makes total sense, but tell that to numerous pro-natalist people, who believe, that human reproduction is always a good thing, for both a child and a parents and who think that people should never be criticized for the decision to reproduce...
There's an obvious problem with robot dogs carrying the oxygen supply: native Martian robot cats - imagine what would happen if the robot dog encountered a robot cat? Bad news....
Then there's the Mars squirrels... uh-oh.
@@rob338 I recently rewatched "UP" and came to make the same comment. You're only a year ahead of me. 👍🙃
@@Bob-Jenkins SQUIRREL!!!!!!!
The Musk effect; convincing believers that feelings and wishes are possible. Great analysis!
Looks like it being fashionable was more important than practical. Does the older NASA space suit make me look fat?
"Early adopting" living on Mars will be soo cool. Many selfie options. And then death. Maybe a good choice to get rid of some obnoxious "influencers"? ;-)
I’d be up for sending a colony ship full of Instagram influencers to Mars...
"Take off the helmet it hides your gorgeous face"
"Just give me a minu-..."
Lets start a Twitter hashtag #sendElonfirst :)
"Golgafrincham was a planet, once home to the Great Circling Poets of Arium. The descendants of these poets made up tales of impending doom about the planet. The tales varied; some said it was going to crash into the sun, or the moon was going to crash into the planet. Others said the planet was to be invaded by twelve-foot piranha bees and still others said it was in danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star-goat. [...] These tales of impending doom allowed the Golgafrinchans to rid themselves of an entire useless third of their population. The story was that they would build three Ark ships. Into the A ship would go all the leaders, scientists and other high achievers. The C ship would contain all the people who made things and did things [...] The B ship was filled with all the middlemen of Golgafrincham, such as the telephone sanitisers, account executives, hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, and management consultants. [...] They sent the B ship off first, but of course, the other two-thirds of the population stayed on the planet ... "
Douglas Adams was a visionary, but even he couldn't imagine "influencer" would be a thing today. -.-
@@saumyacow4435 Yes, he can be the "Techno King of Mars" for his whole lifetime there.
In defense of kurzgesagt @ 15:50 they did say in that video there needed to be mountains of prerequisites before inhabiting Mars. Including a functioning lunar outpost and a full scan of the planet. They also said initial, manned missions would need to be with trained astronauts to set up suitable infrastructure before beginning to think about civilian colonies.
Why would we colonize planets who are preety much inhospitable instead of living in rotating space habitats like the o'Neill cylinder?
@@constantinethecataphract5949 most likely would be an industrial facility of some kind with totally automated or very small crew. Refinery that needs a ore stable foundation perhaps
I used to watch him a lot and after finding this channel I see a lot of errors and misinformation by him. Youve took every one and provided actual science. You deserve more subs and likes.
I'm happy I subscribed, I felt alone. Not anymore.
Scary, innit?
The mechanical counterpressure suit is a particular fixation of space cadets, I believe it stems from reading too much Heinlein 'Have space suit - Will travel'. I've debated the extensive downsides and deficiencies in the concept to no avail, it's all part of a clear pattern to latch onto half-baked concepts and claim that 'if only' the 'bean counters' had not 'suppressed' this technology we would be living the buck rogers future now. Favorites include Nuclear thermal rockets and Sea Dragon.
AFAIK, Heinlein's suit wasn't an MCP system. But yes, there is still a ton of problems with it. Notably the fact that it has a weird and potentially very risky system to help the astronauts breathe.
Thank you for making this. The last few minutes especially sound exactly like what I’ve been screaming in my head for what seems like the last ten years.
Going to the moon has always been the first step. If we can do it there, we can do it in other locations. But we have to prove we can do it there first.
If hypothetically you could build a lunar base and expand it over time then eventually you could manufacture rockets there. Be a lot easier to escape Moon gravity than Earth's so less fuel required for trips.
@@rob338 Ayep, I love how people think because NASA went to the Moon 50 plus years ago, Mars is trivial for us today. Hubris can be funny at times, Solar Roadways it's super easy! Maybe if you can drive only east and west at a 45 degree angle... *sigh*
It's pretty apparent that marketing is far more important than anything practical in this new world of ours.
Angry looks like he drives a white van with those glasses.
Ice cream van...
The bio suit, or pressurized tension skin suit, has been around since the 50’s. Early ones were built out of ace bandage material. They are great for flexibility (seen folks in vac tests in them pedal bikes, climb ladders, work with hand tools,etc with speed and comfort unknown with any other suit), don’t need the exotic cooling systems or sweat wicking, and should be cheaper and easier. You’ld essentially need a backpack with about half what’s in a standard suits back pack. Mostly commercial diver oxygen recycling diving gear.
Agree angry is being a idiot. Frankly seeing his icon on your thumbnail made me pass over this series a couple times until I saw your authorship, since I know he’s just to dumb to waste time with.
O’Niell colonies are the way to go. ;)
Good video Skep
I liked the way you also presented ideas for what would actually need to be done before implementing new technology on Mars. Such as experimenting on the Moon first. Such as having success with settlements in Arctic habitats before sending humans anywhere for any planned long term stay. These ideas you talked about are not new ideas, but they do need to be paid more attention to.
Looks like Angry has already been to give the thumbs down. Hilarious!
That reminds to rewatch the first one. Angry's chat was too funny during the premier.
@@threehead99 On mobile there is a "Live Chat" button right below the video. On desktop there is a "Show Chat Replay" button to the right of the video.
*angry noises*
Don't confuse those idiots with facts.
Dont take Angry too seriously hes and armchair expert on nothing with a mic and a youtube account. Your playing chess with a hamster.
I had to stop and look up Dava The Magic Spacesuit Lady, she's just like I imagined.......She's the type that if she's alive 20 years from now she'll still be telling people it could have worked if only "they" didn't hold her back.
It's the evil patriarchy blocking this because they don't want Space Barbies to take over.
How would a “plus-sized” astronaut (and you know who you are!) squeeze into one of those suits?
@Animesucks cum space is fatphobic? lmfaoo
Took some time to watch this half. Loved how you ended it with the general critique concerning space news and the colonization of Mars. We all need a reality check from time to time. Can't wait for the 1 year anniversary! 🥳🥳
Keys to space exploration and "colonization": 1) A space harbor to build or upgrafmde equipment in space
2) Genetically engineer humans or "proxies" capable of surviving those enviroments, we arent going nowhere.
I don't understand why anyone is even bothered with his TH-cam channel. Waste of time. Still entertaining video. Thx!
I watch it on 2x speed and skip ahead four minutes because he has a prelude and then an introduction.
If your seriously wondering... yeah good question. I mean, when stuff like angry's is so easy to come by, why even bother debunking him? It feels like we'd be better off collecting money to elect a pro-science senator... in like 10 years.
Angry is easy target. Maybe next time take on tougher Musk fanboy youtuber? Unfortunately, Musk fanboy youtubers are a legion.
@@MaestroAlvis I assume it's because Angry is the most obvious in being almost exclusively pro-SpaceX, conjures the weakest defenses, and is the easiest to provoke because he also benefits from drama. Most other optimistic space channels tend to be pro-ALL space companies, which makes them less desirable for a small channel like this trying to coax someone with a bigger following to call them out. Remember, the trick to getting views through manufactured drama is to only go after someone ideologically extreme, and who is worse at fact checking than you are ;P
@@z-beeblebrox No it's because a lot of people think like Angry, they have these illusions about life. The same people that give money to total scams on crowdfunding websites are the same people that think humans can colonize mars, it is not going to happen not now and not in the future. Mars is a dead planet, it's core stopped rotating and became a solid rock it's totally dead. There is no reason to go there, it is a dead desert planet. It has very few resources, very barren landscape and nothing to offer humanity at all except eventual death. All of the money and resources used to go to Mars are better allocating to protecting our own planet and not some total fantasy about Mars.
Another error made by the Angry Astronaut that was not covered in this series: he is speaking into his Blue Yeti microphone with it facing backwards. The Yeti can still directly pick up his voice if he's using the bi-directional or omni-directional patterns. But since both patterns will also pick up sounds from directions other than where he is speaking, this still suboptimal.
Fellas, read the manuals for your equipment. The Blue Yeti is a very popular microphone, so a lot of people will notice if you appear on camera using it incorrectly. Don't speak into it backwards, and definitely don't try to speak into it from the top. It's a side-address microphone and the front of the microphone should be facing you, not the camera.
That says it all lmao
Eeek! Anger clouds your judgement.
@@Veldtian1 Who are you?
Well spotted. I'm beginning to think this Angry guy might be... er.... well.... incompetent?
I really appreciate this channel. I stumbled upon it in my personal quest to rationalize E.M.’s megalomania and found a trove of material to satisfy that, but there is so much more here; it is vital that scientific research maintains a healthy level of skepticism and full on criticism toward it because that is what determines a sound theory or not, and it helps save time [in the long run], resources, and lives. I subbed and look forward to digesting the rest of the videos this channel has to offer.
Glad you found us. Best way to grow the channel is to share your favourite videos, to whoever you think can use this kind of information.
I like that one of the images has a hyper loop... and still can't make it work here.
What happens when the robot dog carrying your oxygen starts chasing a robot cat?
I watched Angry's videos to see if you misrepresent him. Oh my! Debunking a guy with the rational ability of a potato was low hanging fruit.
Which why we typically avoid him, and his followers. They’re a little ridiculous.
@@commonsenseskeptic that was very informative still - and no shame getting the low hanging fruit when there isn't any higher ones
@@commonsenseskeptic angry just do it for youtube money, he has no knowledge of science, he is just a idiot
@@commonsenseskeptic you did it gently and politely. I don't think he means any harm.
That's an insult to potatoes.
The biosuit has been in development hell since at least the 90's I think. I remember reading a Discover article (back when that mag was decent at science reporting) way back when of a suit that kept you together with compression rather than air pressure. So this idea has been around for at least 30 years.
That duct tape claim makes me facepalm every time I see it. Unfortunately Angry shows that clip in multiple videos
Waiting for Angry to make a video on Hyperloops on Mars to get around 😂
I didn't mention it last time, but thank you for finally getting rid of the echo :) Sounds like you are in a much less spacy hall or you have done good on the isolation department finally. I'm pretty sure you noticed yourself how this has increased your overall sound quality and how your articulation translates.
I have never seen a comments section in such unanimous agreement. It leads me to believe peace on earth is a more attainable goal than sustainable life on mars.
Common sense, great job!
Just rewatching this I had a few thoughts about the "Bio suit". I scuba dive in temperate (i.e. cold, but not frozen) water around the UK and Ireland, so thought I'd share a few thoughts from that perspective.
1. Rebreathers are non-trivial pieces of kit. As anyone who dives with one for sport will say, "It's great when it's not trying to kill me". If you want to design a space suit, you *start* with the rebreather and build everything else around it. It's the most complex and essential part of the life support system.
2. Personal rebreathers for both divers and astronauts burn through consumables. Aside from pure O2, needed to inject oxygen into the loop to replace that metabolised by the human body (around 1 litre per minute for a diver not under stress or exertion and who is weightless in her environment), there is the CO2 "scrubber" material. For divers, this is typically "Sofnolime" (a granulated solid form of Calcium oxide, water, sodium hydroxide and potassium hydroxide), though I believe in space applications they tend to use lithium hydroxide instead. Whichever system is used, the consumables will need frequent replacement. So, either tons of the stuff must be shipped from Earth, or it'll need to be produced on Mars.
3. Mars isn't space. It has an atmosphere. Not a great one, but enough to conduct *heat*. Wetsuits that resemble the "bio suit" really aren't used much outside the tropics. I'm not an astronomy expert, but I don't think Mars has a climate like the tropics of Earth. My understanding is it's *frikkin cold*. Most people who dive in cold, temperate waters use a drysuit. A drysuit, rather than being some sexy form fitting thing, works by being a loose somewhat baggy thing with watertight seals around the wrists and neck (the feet are usually integrated) and a watertight zip to get in and out. It's pressurised with air to the same pressure as the surrounding water, and underneath it the diver wears specially made warm, moisture wicking underclothes that resemble a jumpsuit. There are one way valves to allow the diver to dump excess air, and an inlet valve to add air to the suit from the SCUBA system. Does this sound like the Bio-suit, or like something else... something perhaps, that NASA and Roscmos have been using for decades?
4. A drysuit, unlike a wetsuit, allows a diver to extend her "run time" on a dive, for example, to allow for decompression stops, or for a long winded task such as surveying. This is possible because the space in the suit allows for a "P-valve" and hookup system that lets the diver take a bathroom break at depth, and as well as for electrically heated clothing to be worn, commonly a vest - but gloves and socks as well. Again, stuff that someone on a Mars EVA will needs much more than a needlessly skintight outfit.
5. Random question, how the hell is that helmet meant to work? That seal does *not* look airtight. While the helmet pressure being much higher than ambient will stop the Mars atmosphere ingressing into the helmet, it's going to be leaking O2 like nobody's business.
TL;DR Mars colonists on EVA would look like astronauts on EVA and their habitats will look more like the ISS brought to the ground with a mole hill of dirt slung over it than some modern trendy Byron Bay rainforest retreat.
The biosuit could be a cool looking uniform, but I wouldn't walk around the Martian wastes in it
13:51 Probably the most important statement about these fantasies surrounding Mars. I'm actually subscribed to Angry but now I'm questioning his validity (and my subscription) especially after the first video. Though I give him credit for helping me find CSS. If it weren't for that video where he first mentioned CSS I wouldn't have known he exist. So now I'm a subscriber. Funny how that works.
@@judedornisch4946 No need to look deeper. He does have some interesting videos but he needs to ground himself in the realm of reality especially when it comes to Mars. As for an advocate I'm not sure what you mean unless you're referring to Mars. I'm an advocate for Venus but it does not mean it can be colonized nor terraformed. Though I view it as a better candidate than Mars (gravity, atmosphere, distance, etc.).
@@judedornisch4946 True. Nothing wrong with a balance.
Angry, again, naturally.
Like I always say, love every upload, added to your playlist and much love and props to the whole team!
What people fail to understand is that 0.8-1 bar of pressure is not that much.
1 bar of pressure is almost exactly 10 metric tons per square metre.
So, that means a 1-metre square window places ten tons of pressure on the inside.
When was the last time you tried to build a window which would hold in 10-tons of pressure?
Let's look at a 100-metre diameter hemispherical dome, made from stuff like Transparent Aluminium which typically costs around $15,500 per square metre - AND weighs the same as aluminium.
Now, that dome has a surface area of 31,415 square metres. The window panels, at 1-square metre each would cost a total of $483 million dollars - and that's just the manufacturing cost on earth - let alone the cost to get the stuff to Mars, and build the 100m dome.
But how are you going to attach the dome to the ground? The pressure inside it will want to lift it off the ground. And the force trying to lift it is equivalent to 31,415 * 10 tons, or 314,150 tons. We have to add the pressure on the floor also, and that area is 7,854 sqm - so we add another 78,540 tons to the total to make a grand total of 392,690 tons of internal pressure
That is FOUR times the mass of a nuclear aircraft carrier.
Now, imagine trying to take something 100 metres across, which weighs four times what an aircraft carrier does, and try to attach it to a ceiling of a very large building.
Now you are beginning to comprehend the power of air pressure.
This same air pressure differential, as in a 4-metre diameter vacuum tube (like a Hyperloop for example) creates an air-hammer with a yield of 40-Gigajoules - which compares very favourably to the USA's most powerful non-nuclear bomb, the MOAB (Mother Of Allk Bombs) which has a 41-Gigajoule yield.
This air-hammer effect is the one thing (if only one was required) which means the Hyperloop can never be built, and if it ever is, then a single stick of dynamite will destroy the entire system, killing everyone on it, as well as destroying all the stations along the way. A hyperloop is, by definition, the world's most expensive single-use mass murder machine.
Well, it's the pressure we've evolved to survive at.
If Earth had the same atmospheric pressure as Venus, then storms on Earth would be extremely deadly catastrophes.
Your logics are right on point, can't argue. Keep debunking👍👍👍.
Biosphere 2 is basically the answer to most questions that are raised about Mars. It was a total failure and it was possibly the easiest potential scenario.
That no one is having another go at a Biosphere 2 type demo says alot. It’s so much easier to do a CGI rendering.
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot Biosphere II was very expensive and arguably, (it was even argued at the time) not the best way to try and create a closed-loop system. There have been smaller and more successful experiments done but none have tried for a single run of such a length mostly because of the sociological issues with the crew of Biosphere II and the need to better understand connected bio-systems. Biosphere II is arguably not compatible or even analogous to what's needed or wanted to live off-Earth, short of an "O'Neil" colony type set up. Using it as proof for or against a bio-based closed-loop system is disingenuous at best and highly misleading at worst.
@@randycampbell6307 - What were so e of these other experiments that were successful?
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot Several Russian and Chinese isolation and life support experiments. Several carried out by NASA and the ESA with closed-loop life support test runs. None of course has tried to run two years in a single experiment but that's kind of the point to slowly build up experience and capability.
Bravo CSS!!! Angry is the very definition of "Fake News". Love the delivery of this very informative piece of actual research and in closing the suggestion to have those who promise to get anyone to Mars "go themselves and do the dying for is" is the best "put your money where your mouth is" point!😂
Hey, to be fair the Kurzgeseagt video actually points out how extremely difficult this all is and all the testing that will need to be done on earth and the moon!
What's little TImmy going to do once he has a growth spurt and outgrows his spacesuit? How do you even make an infant/toddler spacesuit?
How do you avoid children doing what children do? Like freaking out and wanting to get the suit off..
"Timmy" doesn't GET a "spacesuit" and the pictures and other fantasy art showing kids in space suits, while cute, if utterly unrealistic. "Timmy" gets quite used to getting stuffed into a "rescue ball" (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_Rescue_Enclosure) on a regular basis for 'emergency drills' and being satisfied with the "Great Indoors" of the habitat, (which needs to be designed for and experimented with) to grow up and play in for most of his life. PEOPLE are going to spend most of their time INSIDE a habitat, (and pregnant women and young children even more so) and only rarely go 'outside" if their particular job requires it. And going 'outside' won't be a 'treat' it will be a long, grueling process with a high danger factor and a lot of effort, both going out and coming back in. (One reason 'individual dwellings' like Marsha make absolutely no sense)
Ask Grandma to knit a new one.
Two CSS videos in one week! What kind of sorcery is this?!?
notice me common sense skeptic-chan
First in the pool!
@@th3r486 If you’re blocked, it’s probably for good reason.
Came for the brilliant analysis, stayed for the music.
A thing right for the end, you mentioned about colonising the Moon and the Artemis program (which I do hope works out in the long run), and I was wondering if you could basically do a "Why the Dynetics lander should have won the competition instead of Space-X and the "Lunar Starship" which undercut the competition by overpromising and undedrselling."
Bit of a mouthful so you can cut it down of you want, but I am still upset about it, because Space-X dropped the price of their bid by around 800 million US dollars to be able to win that contract, and yet they didn't have the best lander.
I'm annoyed just how much of space exploration comes down to politics but as shown time and time again, there is no way it is feesible for a company to be doing space exploration, sure they can build the parts, but the funding for such a thing has to come from a national government lest the company bankrupt itself.
Dynetics had the problem that it was overweight from the start with it barely meeting the requirements so that reducing the weight would also reduce the safety and utility of the lander. I liked it but it needed to be trimmed down a lot which wasn't arguably possible given the budget and timetable. Similarly the National Team lander wasn't cost effective and had several operational issues (some which Lunar Starship not only share but are much worse) as well as being mostly expendable from the start with no real attempt at reusablity which was a requirement itself. SpaceX's Lunar Starship was obviously underbid, (requiring a lot of infrastructure and operations that are not "included" in the price but 'assumed' in the Starship operational planning anyway) but it's not essentially much 'advanced' over the "Starships" that SpaceX is currently flying. (And crashing)
I don't agree with awarding SpaceX the HLS contract as a sole source but frankly NASA didn't have the budget to award either of the other landers the contract, which was part of the point. Congress will likely 'mandate' a second award and will then have to support that with an increased budget on the HLS system. (Or not as I'm still not convinced that Congress is really willing to pay for Lunar missions again anyway)
Another problem with flying a balloon anywhere is that a balloon sort of requires a thick atmosphere to function. The less atmospheric density, the lower the more displacement is needed for every kg of lift. You'd need a dirigible to lift a picnic basket on Mars.
So thankful for people like you, Dave, Thunderf00t. The amount of stupid shit in this world is staggering but, at least we have you guys to illuminate all the bullshit around us.
Who's Dave? I'm only just finding my way round this small pocket of the world that isn't gullible enough to buy into con merchants peddling laughably fantasaical bs.
Who’s Dave?
@@joeybulford5266 Maybe Professor Dave.
@@Bob-Jenkins
Ah yea makes sense. That guy is awesome
Yo if you like Professor Dave you should check out SciManDan
Right off the bat on the Biosuit you're wrong, and more right than you know :) You also didn't do your 'research' on the concept other than the obvious points directly related to comparison of the suits. Lets start off on how long this suit has been in development. Not 21 years but over 50 with the main constraint being materials available to provide the counter-pressure. While the initial concepts designs and work was done in the late 50s and early 60s the work didn't really advance till the mid-to-late 70s with the NASA sponsored "Space Activity Suit" which itself was held back by the lack of materials but at least got some vacuum chamber work done and proved out many of the features and advantages as well as problem areas to work on. The Biosuit has vastly more advanced materials to work with which has greatly advanced the concept. (Yes in fact they DO have a diaper under the suit btw)
At 0:612: you show a great comparison picture of the difference between the balloon pressure suit and the Mechanical Counter-Pressure suit (MCP as it is technically called) and while Angry gets a lot wrong so do you. Note the oxygen tanks in the picture on the right. Note how much of the PLSS on the suit is NOT air but other life support needs like cooling. In the MCP you only need the oxygen tanks, hence there is little need to have much more than a divers air tank system for providing a proper breathing mix. What about cooling and such? The MCP regulates by sweating which is wicked away through the porous suit materials so the more cumbersome PLSS pack is not needed. (Yes one of the areas of work on the Biosuit is ways to retain and recycle the 'sweat' moisture in a vacuum as the body loss rate of water is higher even though the body 'work-load' is vastly less than in a balloon suit)
You're correct on the contamination issue though I should point out that it's quite possible in an MCP design to have a 'coverall' outer garment that can be stripped in a vestibule of the airlock to greatly reduce the issue. (Keep in mind on that issue that the MCP allows better range of movement and flexibility which itself allows vastly improved options for contamination mitigation actions. Having spent over 20 years training and practicing contamination mitigation efforts in bulky, uncomfortable and restrictive "suits" {CBN protective suits} I can assure you there are more than a few methods to reduce the issues. They aren't easy and they aren't going to be as quick as a 'suit-port' but they very much exist)
Right now NASA is focused on near-term space suits but have been very impressed with various MCP designs and efforts and are currently seeking a way to make a 'hybrid' suit that will combine things like MCP gloves with a partial or full pressure (balloon) suit as the MCP bits allow longer and more comfortable use but the partial or full pressure suit technology is more mature. Full MCP suits have several requirements that would require some major changes to both spacecraft design and EVA planning if fully implemented but also have some major and long-term advantages.
Angry is very wrong on NASA support and development but he's also very wrong on implementation and usage of the MCP suits themselves as many are given the general lack of knowledge of the history and development of the concept.
You could not be more wrong on "parents of martians staying behind to die with their children"...any two people who'd choose to have children on Mars(assuming its possible) would totally leave their kids to die for their survival...absolutely love this channel great job
The comparison in the first video of Mars to Antarctica is very accurate, probably moreso than Mr. Everest. The utter isolation of Antarctica, and the fact that not only is your immediate environment utterly inhospitable to human life, but that the environment all around you for a practically infinite distance (i.e. further than you could ever hope to reach with the resources on hand) is a perfect analogue. If you don't want to spend the rest of your life on the Antarctic ice cap, eking out existence in your survival shelter with meagre rations of whatever may or may not arrive on the next supply drop (and hoping and praying that the supply drop will come), then you don't want to live on Mars either. Literally the only case I can see for people spending any length of time on Mars is exactly the same as for Antarctica - as a fixed duration stay to carry out scientific work. Unlike the moon, which could conceivably have a role beyond pure scientific curiosity, Mars is resource poor in just about everything that we could conceivably want. It's energy poor, water poor AND mineral poor. What precious little resources it does have are located underneath a crappy atmosphere that is unbreathable, has no elements of value, and is too thin to allow for fully aerobraked landings, but thick enough to demand bulky, heavy heatshields and to get in the way of effective launches.
Gotta say.... I loved the Monty Python Intermission.
I'm getting addicted to these videos.
2:15 As a woman that size who lives up north, I wouldn't trust that thing to keep me warm even on a chilly Earth day...much less keep me warm in space or on Mars! I don't care what fabric it's made of...You need layers of clothing, you need space in between them, and your skin, in order to stay warm.
And that's just temperature, on Earth!
That suit is a joke, I just can't take it seriously.
6:10 I am no expert but, i am fairly sure that is dainese motorcycle back protector not a life support system
Nailed it.
At 3:07 was all I needed to see about this "Biosuit"...its got a Dainese motorcycle logo's all over the suit, last time i checked they didn't have "spacesuits" as part of their product lineup, just 1 piece leathers designed for coming off your motorcycle at high speeds...so not great for 20+ years of development on an aerospace product.
They reached out to the biker community!
@@KevinBalch-dt8ot I get that, and as a Biker myself i wouldn't mind having Dainese leathers to crash in myself...BUT having them make a spacesuit...its a whole different ballgame lol
@@weegaz22 They didn't make the 'spacesuit' only the outer covering layer. MCP's need multiple layers of 'ply' material to provide the needed counter-pressure and frankly the wrappings look fugly to be honest so they 'dressed' the outer layer up for the demos and presentations. And as I keep telling people about MCP's imagine your parents in spandex and you understand WHY the 'outer-layer' is so important :)
There once was a part of me that thought I could cope with a trip to Mars. Mind you, I don't think even visiting Mars is a real possibility until we can make the trip in two weeks each way. If this pandemic has proven anything to me, it's that even with my 30-60 day Martian visit timeline, I'd go crazy long before the mission is complete. I mean that literally. I'd lose my ability to function.
Actually no matter what once they are there they're stuck there for 2 whole years due to the planetary orbital dynamics. We launch to Mars as it's catching up to Earth and use Earth's speed to throw ourselves out to meet it. Doesn't matter how fast your drives are, by the time you reach Mars Earth is already getting farther away from you and you have nothing to give you that speed fast enough.
@@Skylancer727 you're right but reducing travel time reduce 0g and radiations effects. On Mars they will be less severe...
@@mondianijoli9080 no while Mars does have some gravity we still aren't certain if that is good enough for that period of time length (they might still need spinning habitats for it to truly be liveable). We still don't know if Mars like gravity will prevent things like loss of sight, blood flow reversal, bone loss, etc that Zero G does. Likely is it won't be as bad but probably still pretty bad.
Radiation is basically just as bad on Mars as in open space. Mars has an atmosphere but it's too scant to block weak level cosmic rays and the strong cosmic rays easily make it onto Earth's surface when the magnetic field is weakened. Mars has almost no magnetic field period and the one it does has is irregular and doesn't protect the majority of the planet. Currently to be safe from radiation you basically need to build Martian bases under at least 2 meters of rock. Even still that's not nearly as good as our atmosphere and magnetic field at protecting us from radiation. For equal radiation shielding we're talking being nearly 10 meters deep underground.
@@Skylancer727 When I say we have to be able to travel one-way in 2 weeks time, I mean including all the orbital dynamics. I understand that will require forms of propulsion that have yet to be invented.
I don't have a problem with transit times on the order of 5 to 6 months. Provide that the transit vehicle is specialised as a transit vehicle - it doesn't land on a planet - then its possible to engineer it to have a modest level of spin gravity (0.4 to 0.8gs). It is also possible to reduce the exposure to background radiation with radiation absorbing materials close to the bodies of the crew (suits, furniture). It won't be perfect and it would only be ethical for a hardened volunteer crew, but its doable. The real issue is length of stay on Mars.
Short stay missions (a month or so) are possible, but are also very limiting in what you can do. I'd prefer to deal with the issue of radiation on Mars itself by first learning how to send robotic miners (much like Earthly roadheaders). And then putting the hab modules onto tracks and parking them in man made caves. Yes, all of this expensive!
Short transits are in the realm of future propulsion I'm afraid. You can't rely on aerobraking because at the velocities involved, nothing will protect you and the g forces will squash you anyhow. You need propulsion for braking. Gimme fusion! :)
Excellent videos about Angry. As the last video pointed out, a steady step-by-step process to developing technologies for human space exploration is the best way to go. Not understanding this is the main problem with Angry and other extreme overly optimistic futurists.
- Putting 1 million people on Mars will take hundreds of years not 10 to 20 years.
Step one, develop Space habitat technology on earth. Step two, put the technology into low earth orbit on the ISS. Step three, put the habitat technology on the Moon and perfect it there. Get to a point where 5000 human beings are living on the Moon. This will take decades.
After all that, then humanity can think about building a colony on Mars.
teen on mars... dad im bored i want to explore the rest of the solarsystem. please give me the keys to the spaceship that brought you here... byeeee
Yeah, that idea that martian children had "the rest of the solar system" made me wonder if Angry thinks Futurama is real.
Explorers did that premise with style. Loved the alien kids and the angry alien dad, hahaha.
Loving the common sense skepticism, its not right what elon has gotten away with and taken credit for, its a disgrace what he doing.
One thing I always love to point out about exploration is that it is slow. Your vehicle will be like a 4x4 in the middle of nowhere.
When most people think of a 4x4 they think of something like a Jeep or a Raptor driving down a dirt road. Here you won't have that. You will be lucky to get over 10mph for safety and bouncing reasons and your energy consumption will be enormous. Remember that most 4x4s get terrible economy while in 4x4 low, to the tune of less than a quarter of their regular range on the road. Exploration in and of itself will be a massively time consuming task to go a single mile
We won't even colonize the moon .... maybe a base or two . Colonizing the oceans would better serve the humans .
Kapton can be used for everything. It is seriously the best tape human kind has ever made.
Trying to fly to Mars in Starship is like planning to go on a round the world sailing on the Noah's ark replica they build in the US.
How will they navigate on Mars, there is no magnetic field to use a compass, no satellites to use sat positioning systems... You can easy lost the way back... Oh, you can leave breadcrumbs!!!
Those suits remind me of the ones from the Mars trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson. Good series for light science fiction. Alistair Reynolds' Revelation Space series is probably my favorite.
Loved the Mars trilogy. Heard an interview with Robinson a while back where he was saying that colonising Mars will be more complex that we (and he) thought. Considering his books are incredibly well-researched then methinks that dude knows what he's talking about.
@@rob338 Yeah, that's why I like Alastair Reynolds, he learned a PhD in Astrophysics, and actually worked for the ESA. He left the ESA around 2005? To write full time, I'd look it up but the lazyness is strong with this one. His books can start of pretty dry, but they're amazing in my opinion, especially the audiobooks narrated by John Lee. Peter F. Hamilton, Adrian Tchaikovsky, and James S. A. Corey are pretty good too. James S. A. Corey's Expanse book series is much better than the show, but that's how it usually goes. I can count on one hand where the movie or show was better than the book. 1. The Shawshank Redemption, 2. No County for Old Men 3. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas 4. The Silence of the Lambs, and 5. The Shining. Crap, I have to grow another finger real quick.. 6. Blade Runner. Alot of people preferred the movie Fight Club to the book, I kinda think they're equally good on their own regards. Though, these are all my opinions, and you know what they say about those.. Be well, and may the lazyness not be with you.
@@walkingcontradiction223 Thanks for the recommends, dude. Heard good things about Reynolds, will be sure to check him out. Only seen first season of the Expanse but did quite like it, sounds like the books are worth a look, too.
4:25 to be fair the tank could be created detachable** so you leave the robot behind if necessary. Naturally they will recommend taking two or them along, just in case... *shrug*
**I think I just put more though into this (almost by accident) than them.
In a recent conversation, someone stated confidently that Be-4 wasn't flight qualified yet. It was actually qualified last October and delivered to ULA in February. Musk fans seem to need to believe that Be-4 won't work, that Vulcan won't fly before Starship and that New Glenn won't get built. In fairness I should mention that Blue Origin required ULA's help to fix an issue with the engine. This may cast doubt on their ability to get New Glenn working. Musk fans don't seem to understand that Starship development is behind both SLS and Dream Chaser and way behind Vulcan. New Glenn's purported timeline is 24 months from last October which is doable -- although if that pushed out to April 2023 that would still be reasonable.
Vulcan may fly before the end of the year. That might seem fast, but ULA started working on Vulcan back in 2016 whereas SpaceX didn't decide on the Starship configuration until 2 years later. ULA was building test articles for qualification testing two years ago. This was around the same time that SpaceX was doing demonstration flights with Star Hopper rather than doing the less exciting work of building a working vehicle. This is why ULA nearly has Vulcan finished whereas Starship is still floundering.
Dream Chaser is scheduled to fly on Vulcan in early 2022. Again this might seem fast but Sierra Nevada started working on Dream Chaser in 2012 and did atmospheric testing back in 2017. I'm not seeing any possibility at this point for SpaceX to have a Starship prototype ready before then. The fastest I could see SpaceX having a prototype would be 18 months which would put a flight around November 2022. However, given SpaceX's track record, 24 - 30 months would probably be more realistic -- assuming they ever get serious about developing Starship. This would put the first flight at May - November 2023. That would overlap by at least a year with develop of the HLS which is almost certainly too much for SpaceX to handle, especially since they have to do the long duration version of Dragon. And of course this hinges on the lawsuit which halted the contract with SpaceX until it can be reviewed by the GAO.
The Ford F-150 all electric might go on sale about the same time as the Tesla truck, but my guess is that Ford is more prepared for volume. And Freightliner's all electric semi is being tested by customers right now whereas there are only two proof of concept vehicles in existence for the Tesla Semi and both were built back in 2017. The world is passing Musk by.
ULA started work on Vulcan 2014, and the Vulcan is just a regular rocket. What SpaceX is trying to do with Starship is something completely new and it is delusional to compare the two projects. It would be an insane feat if SpaceX pulls it off within the next 10 years. Any sooner than that is just bonus.
@@slaphappyduplenty2436 A boring, old technology rocket that flies is considerably better than one that will never be operational. I'll say again that Vulcan and New Glenn will both be operational before Starship.
@@slaphappyduplenty2436 also you believe Musk's LIES that starship will carry 100 people? It's shown by simple logic that it will barely be comfortable with 16 people. See debunking starship video.
@@scientious Blue Origin started before SpaceX and still hasn't even made it to orbit yet with anything, meanwhile, Rocket Lab, Astra, and others have. Blue Origin hasn't even built a prototype of the first stage yet, they've gone 2 years, and the only thing they built was part of a faring. Who's the delusional people here?
This channel has such 'Elon Derangement Syndrome' that they believe New Glenn will be built and operational (meaning *reusable* flights) before Starship?
I'll bet you $10,000 Starship Super Heavy makes it to orbit before New Glenn even has a booster moved out to a pad for testing.
And I'll bet you the Super Heavy Booster makes reusable landings before New Glenn.
I'm still skeptical about Starship's Heat Shield situation, so I'm willing to push that out a few years.
Do we need to talk about how Crew Dragon was developed in record time, and is making regularly trips to space, while Starliner is a disaster, and even if it launches, is less capable?
Oh but Musk said 100 people, or Musk said it would have a giant Atrium and Space Opera concerts. All of this nitpicking is a complete distraction. Musk overpromises and underdelivers, but what he delivers is typically far ahead of the status quo. I'll promise you something with 10 amazing features, and 7 of them actually make it to reality, the dipshits in this channel focus on the 3 claims that didn't make it, ignoring everything else.
And that leads to absurdly idiotic BS like claims that the Shuttle and Falcon 9 have similar *underlying costs*. Or that reusability doesn't work. Or simping for SLS, a program ridiculously over cost and underdelivered, and whose basically technology is RS-25 engines that were already built 40 years ago and sitting on the shield, and with new ones quoted to cost $100 million each.
Gimme a break.
Common Sense? Common Idiocy is more like it.
There is something to be said about people who put looking cool and sounding tough rather than being objective and rational
After watching this - I can hear Musk talking to the first people going to Mars...
"Some of you, ok.. all of you may die but it's a sacrifice I am willing to make."
(Credit to Lord Farquaad)
hahahahaha the way he says that Martians can just go around the universe as they please as if there is no issue.
I agree we are far from ready to inhabit Mars but at the same time we need to be working on the problem. Gotta start somewhere.
Angry is an example of Dunning/Kruger in full effect.
I'm surprised that no-one has claimed to invent the teleporter yet is surprising.
every time i hear about colonization of another planet, always comes Biosphere 2 into my mind
Proposed name of martian colony: Jonestown.
Now this is real journalism. You deserve much more sucess on TH-cam.
Unfortunatly people dont like truth
Thanks - and the success is coming. The channel has been growing steadily for the past 18 months. Best way to keep it going is to share with everyone you think can benefit from this information.
@@commonsenseskeptic Yes I have. May all your wishes come true 👍
That Arizona experiment is probably the most telling how far we are from colonizing any planet.
Yes look at sunset at mars. Let us ignore the uv-radiation (no ozone layer) or look through a special sun glass which makes the sun set less impressive. What else they want to visit? Some geological formations? Nearly every country on earth has some beautiful national parks. If one has for example has no desire to visit the grand canyon, why should you exited to see some geological features on mars. Unless you are an geology enthusiast why would you stay months in a grand canyon like feature.
Mars is not an exiting adventure and will feel more like the last days on a failing polar expidition.
Angry seems to be completely unaware that he's a Dunning-Kruger effect sufferer, but I guess that's a redundancy.
This is an uneven fight... Angry vs Science 🤭
What a good way to start a new day thanks CSS
Also did you get the mail?
Never trust a guy wearing sunglasses indoors.
Angry: Children born on Mars will be able to travel to other places and will have the rest of the Solar system for them.
Me: Earth must come first.
You know how difficult the covid lockdown has been for people? There's comparables to what life on mars would be like permanently (if it were possible). Isolated with hardly anywhere to go or anything to do.
What will Angry Astronaut do when he runs out of 1990s back issues of Popular Mechanics?
Love this channel
also isnt Angry microphone backward? normally big diagram microphone have a facing side...
Damn. I have the same NASA Lego set he has behind him at 0:39
Thanks for the content... nice to have places to go where rationality still thrives
isn't the biosuit concept very old? I mean its streamlined so in a number of space conditions it would be much preferable to use then bulky awkward spacesuits. We aren't any where close to using such a suit though.
The spot robots could be used as pack mules on the moon carrying emergency supplies as well as standard mission equipment for repairs of lunar structures etc. That would make sense as something NASA would be looking at for future operations.