Just like GW with pre-nerfing Stormdrake Guard before their launch in 3rd, Ryan here with a pre-video correction! Just spoke with Hugo from Team The Netherlands (who went 6-0 at Worlds, btw), and he updated me on how some of the Endless Spell interactions work now, namely for those that have a CORE, MOVE ability (Lauchon, Gravetide, Purple Sun, and Pendulum). Even though it says in the Core Rules (15.4) that Flying units cannot end moves in combat unless the ability explicitly allows it to (and these rules on the Manifestations don't have that wording), it has been confirmed in a conversation with head rules writer Matt Rose that the intention was in fact that these Endless Spells can use these CORE, MOVE abilities to move into combat range. This has broad implications for all, as they can stop units from Redeploying, Covering Fire, Counter-Charging, and the like. Also, the Manifestations have more freedom to move over more units (think especially of Pendulum, which counter to what I was debating in the video can only move in one direction, thus not over a unit and back and THEN still outside of 3"). Naturally this can't be combined with a Run (to get extra inches of movement), because that's a separate CORE, MOVE ability. In any case, this rules clarification should be included in the following FAQ, but I would suggest house-ruling it for now knowing what's coming is probably the way to go. Lastly, Hugo confirmed that the Maelstrom does in fact go off as a choice, not automatically. But of course by waiting to have it go off you run the risk that it gets killed or Banished beforehand. Added July 24: Also pretty sure I got Banishment slightly wrong. In the video I said Banishing can only happen in the enemy turn if you have a non-Wizard/Priest Hero activate a Place of Power, but now that I read it more carefully, it only says you can use Unbind/Banish abilities as if you had Wizard (1). What this implies is that, while you can still unbind as a reaction to the enemy wizard casting a spell in either your Hero phase of that of your opponent, Banishing still remains locked to YOUR Hero phase, meaning if you want to Banish a spell it has to be in your own turn, even if you activate a Place of Power. Subtle difference, but still worth mentioning.
This is a disaster and I am hopeful that they will reconsider it. It makes Morbid even more clearly 100% the pick in every case. Having access to units that can simply move straight into combat in the movement phase is game-breakingly good, especially since this is a feature that is not present anywhere else in the game. If implemented the game will basically just degenerate into who can spam Morbid the best, because it turns off virtually all of the interactivity they worked so hard to put into the core rules. So, so disappointing if true. Manifestations need to be nerfed, not buffed. And Morbid is the last manifestation lore that needs a massive buff.
Though may or may not be as intended, all End of Turn are a "can" use. 31.0 Explains the steps. And yes, the Ability of Morbid Conjurations to move into combat is allowed because you aren't using the Move ability, you are using the warscroll ability to move. I hate it, but it is what it is. Will most likely get an addendum that says "cannot end this ability in combat range."
@@nicholasrau8928 No, thankfully currently they can't move into combat because the wording on the "fly" rule prevents it. The message is saying that Matt Rose apparently wants to errata that so they can move into combat. Which is mind-boggling if true.
@@nicholasrau8928 I don't know how it was ruled, but supposedly Matt Rose (the lead designer) was at the event and said they were intended to be able to move into combat and that they would errata it so they could. :(
5:30 maybe this is covered later in the video, but i think the "you must set up 9in away from them" is implying that you can't deep strike your units right on top of an enemy manifestation - you have to be (usually) 9in away, just like you'd have to be from other enemy units
Hey Andrew! Yeah I get what you’re saying. I was reading it as your own units have to set up outside 9”. Makes sense that they meant the opponent’s units. In any case, that was implied when I was talking about Endless Spells in general, just had a hard time figuring out how hat they meant, so thanks for making it crystal clear!
Awesome video mate. Detailed but well explained. I wont be getting into these for some time due to costs but they look very fun. I really like the rules and models for ather wrought devices even if they suck lol. Unfortunately i dont play lumineth so haven't been watching anything recently. However this was top notch so cheers 🍻
Another great deep-dive into a new era of Sigmar. This channel has consistently produced great content for AoS and I'm very happy to have a source of high-quality AoS content!
Thank you! I never bought any of these aside from the ones for sylvaneth, but hearing them described gives me a lot to mull over in terms of countering them!
Great review, completely agree on Morbid be overpowered choise for now. I hope they will limit 1 controlled manifestation per wizard and remove Gravetide from Morbid to weaker lore
Morbid Conjuration and Primal Energy definitely feel like the strongest lores. The idea of a mixed lore that both does support and direct attacks is fine, but the damaging spells in Aetherwrought Machineries are too lacklaster to make it a contender. I feel like Krondspine should be a little bit stronger or easier to cast to make up for being a single manifestation lore.
Agree with most of this. Not sure about the krondspine... Scary manifestation when it gets too strong. But I understand where your worries are stemming from.
The only restriction for ending a move outside of combat range is in the CORE Move ability. When you use 'End Given Form' from Purple Sun, the restriction isnt there. Can it not move in to combat range using its warscroll ability in lieu of a core move? (Likewise with Gravetide)?
@@WindsOfMagicall good! Lots of details to miss, even for someone like me that sees AoS almost like a second job! Thanks for the support and for watching!
I'm going to a tournament and playing a dragon list with krondys, which Manifestation Lore should I take? I've got 2 units of stormdrakes, reinforced vanguard raptors with longstrikes, vanquishers and a lord veritant.
So Krondys is indeed great for casting Manifestations, but he also really likes to leave a slot open for his great Warscroll Spell. So realistically you’re only getting 1-2 manifestations out per Battle Round, dependent on whether or not you want to do his Warscroll Spell again in the enemy’s turn. Hard to argue with taking Morbid Conjurations so that you can get the Purple Sun out to help with rend for the dragons and shooting in your list. But the Krondspine is tankier and can maybe get into combat, so I could see that maybe working. But honestly having Jaws and Lifeswarm around to keep your boys healthy and have a beatstick could also be juicy. Maybe my main question would be why bring the Veritant? It doesn’t seem like he’s adding a lot to the list, but maybe it was a points thing or you just like the model? Or maybe I’m missing some cool tech! Personally I’d try to see if I can get another wizard in there to see if you can lean in more on the Endless Spells, or maybe just a Priest for one of the great Prayers (which are in my opinion much stronger than the Spells for Wizards). Just my two cents though! And thanks for checking out the video!
@ryanburruss I took the veritant because I wanted a priest in the list and he is a cooler model than the lord relictor and also newer. What would you suggest to bring instead? Thanks for the feedback.
@@aaravbasantani7774Oh yeah sorry, I forgot that he was a Priest. That’s good for sure, just hard to argue with the Relictor’a +1 to chant and being 10 pts cheaper is all. Maybe just bring both models to show you have a Relictor that’s painted but that you want to proxy the other guy? Ha
I do think Shackles makes some sense lore-wise for sure. I think they need to figure out Pendulum regardless, and maybe bump up the damage for Swords. Cogs might be good enough, but it just feels so lackluster with the rest of what it comes with. So yeah, maybe Shackles helps move the needle, but I think moving it out of Morbid Conjurations has more impact by taking something away from that lore rather than making me want to take Aetherwrought
Hey Ryan, Can I ask if I use coverfire, and the nearest model is an enemy endless spell, do I have to target the endless spell and not the nearest enemy unit ?
Edited: Hey Martin! Manifestations don’t count as units during the shooting phase (Advanced Rules - Magic 7.0), so no, you don’t have to target them for Covering Fire. Actually, as Hugo points out below, in the FAQ for the Advanced Rules page 43 (thus not Errata, which is why I missed it because it didn’t involve rewriting the wording in the book), it says you can’t target it for Covering Fire. Not sure what the rules reasoning is though.
@@ryanburruss Thank you and can't wait to hear about your Deepkin battles. My army is: Volt, Eidolon of Sea, Soulscryer, 1x6 & 2x3 morp eels, 1 shark, 3x 10 Reavers.
As someone unfamiliar with your channel the amount of numbers on their profile is jarring and confusing. I’m sure the depth of knowledge is great but the presentation is rough
Thanks for your feedback, Mexi! We've got a spread of content. Some of it is really in-depth and mathematical, some of it is friendlier for a broader audience. Happy to hear your feedback. Have a look around at some other content. I'm sure you'll find something to your liking ❤️
Just like GW with pre-nerfing Stormdrake Guard before their launch in 3rd, Ryan here with a pre-video correction!
Just spoke with Hugo from Team The Netherlands (who went 6-0 at Worlds, btw), and he updated me on how some of the Endless Spell interactions work now, namely for those that have a CORE, MOVE ability (Lauchon, Gravetide, Purple Sun, and Pendulum).
Even though it says in the Core Rules (15.4) that Flying units cannot end moves in combat unless the ability explicitly allows it to (and these rules on the Manifestations don't have that wording), it has been confirmed in a conversation with head rules writer Matt Rose that the intention was in fact that these Endless Spells can use these CORE, MOVE abilities to move into combat range. This has broad implications for all, as they can stop units from Redeploying, Covering Fire, Counter-Charging, and the like. Also, the Manifestations have more freedom to move over more units (think especially of Pendulum, which counter to what I was debating in the video can only move in one direction, thus not over a unit and back and THEN still outside of 3"). Naturally this can't be combined with a Run (to get extra inches of movement), because that's a separate CORE, MOVE ability. In any case, this rules clarification should be included in the following FAQ, but I would suggest house-ruling it for now knowing what's coming is probably the way to go.
Lastly, Hugo confirmed that the Maelstrom does in fact go off as a choice, not automatically. But of course by waiting to have it go off you run the risk that it gets killed or Banished beforehand.
Added July 24: Also pretty sure I got Banishment slightly wrong. In the video I said Banishing can only happen in the enemy turn if you have a non-Wizard/Priest Hero activate a Place of Power, but now that I read it more carefully, it only says you can use Unbind/Banish abilities as if you had Wizard (1). What this implies is that, while you can still unbind as a reaction to the enemy wizard casting a spell in either your Hero phase of that of your opponent, Banishing still remains locked to YOUR Hero phase, meaning if you want to Banish a spell it has to be in your own turn, even if you activate a Place of Power. Subtle difference, but still worth mentioning.
This is a disaster and I am hopeful that they will reconsider it. It makes Morbid even more clearly 100% the pick in every case. Having access to units that can simply move straight into combat in the movement phase is game-breakingly good, especially since this is a feature that is not present anywhere else in the game. If implemented the game will basically just degenerate into who can spam Morbid the best, because it turns off virtually all of the interactivity they worked so hard to put into the core rules.
So, so disappointing if true. Manifestations need to be nerfed, not buffed. And Morbid is the last manifestation lore that needs a massive buff.
Though may or may not be as intended, all End of Turn are a "can" use. 31.0 Explains the steps. And yes, the Ability of Morbid Conjurations to move into combat is allowed because you aren't using the Move ability, you are using the warscroll ability to move. I hate it, but it is what it is. Will most likely get an addendum that says "cannot end this ability in combat range."
@@nicholasrau8928 No, thankfully currently they can't move into combat because the wording on the "fly" rule prevents it. The message is saying that Matt Rose apparently wants to errata that so they can move into combat. Which is mind-boggling if true.
@@assistantref5084 Good catch! I was hearing it was ruled they could move into combat at the GT Tacoma.
@@nicholasrau8928 I don't know how it was ruled, but supposedly Matt Rose (the lead designer) was at the event and said they were intended to be able to move into combat and that they would errata it so they could. :(
5:30 maybe this is covered later in the video, but i think the "you must set up 9in away from them" is implying that you can't deep strike your units right on top of an enemy manifestation - you have to be (usually) 9in away, just like you'd have to be from other enemy units
Hey Andrew! Yeah I get what you’re saying. I was reading it as your own units have to set up outside 9”. Makes sense that they meant the opponent’s units.
In any case, that was implied when I was talking about Endless Spells in general, just had a hard time figuring out how hat they meant, so thanks for making it crystal clear!
Awesome video mate. Detailed but well explained. I wont be getting into these for some time due to costs but they look very fun. I really like the rules and models for ather wrought devices even if they suck lol.
Unfortunately i dont play lumineth so haven't been watching anything recently. However this was top notch so cheers 🍻
New videos are coming, Jake. We're recording an index deep dive for a different army today 😎
Another great deep-dive into a new era of Sigmar. This channel has consistently produced great content for AoS and I'm very happy to have a source of high-quality AoS content!
Much appreciated, Cameron!
Yeah thanks a ton, Cameron! Really appreciate the support!
Awesome video as always! Thanks
Thank you! I never bought any of these aside from the ones for sylvaneth, but hearing them described gives me a lot to mull over in terms of countering them!
Definitely going to be seeing them on the tables! I kinda hope they either nerf the generic ones or buff the faction specific versions
Awesome analysis!
Thanks a ton, Fotta!
Great review, completely agree on Morbid be overpowered choise for now. I hope they will limit 1 controlled manifestation per wizard and remove Gravetide from Morbid to weaker lore
Yeah, I think that totally makes sense. Of course I don’t know where the Gravetide would fit in thematically, but still
I think the shackles could go to the Machineries lore and that would remove a key versatile piece from this lore…balancing this lot
Morbid Conjuration and Primal Energy definitely feel like the strongest lores.
The idea of a mixed lore that both does support and direct attacks is fine, but the damaging spells in Aetherwrought Machineries are too lacklaster to make it a contender.
I feel like Krondspine should be a little bit stronger or easier to cast to make up for being a single manifestation lore.
Agree with most of this. Not sure about the krondspine... Scary manifestation when it gets too strong. But I understand where your worries are stemming from.
28.0 if an ability instructs you to pick more than 1 unit, each unit you pick must be a different unit unless stated otherwise
Thanks Stefano! Was having a hard time finding this one, even in games recently!
The only restriction for ending a move outside of combat range is in the CORE Move ability. When you use 'End Given Form' from Purple Sun, the restriction isnt there. Can it not move in to combat range using its warscroll ability in lieu of a core move? (Likewise with Gravetide)?
Yeah we’re with you. Check the pinned comment that I posted above before the video went live. Unfortunately I wasn’t yet aware of it during recording
@@ryanburruss thanks for the speedy reply. I didn't read up, lol.
Thanks again for the content!!
@@WindsOfMagicall good! Lots of details to miss, even for someone like me that sees AoS almost like a second job! Thanks for the support and for watching!
I'm going to a tournament and playing a dragon list with krondys, which Manifestation Lore should I take?
I've got 2 units of stormdrakes, reinforced vanguard raptors with longstrikes, vanquishers and a lord veritant.
So Krondys is indeed great for casting Manifestations, but he also really likes to leave a slot open for his great Warscroll Spell. So realistically you’re only getting 1-2 manifestations out per Battle Round, dependent on whether or not you want to do his Warscroll Spell again in the enemy’s turn. Hard to argue with taking Morbid Conjurations so that you can get the Purple Sun out to help with rend for the dragons and shooting in your list. But the Krondspine is tankier and can maybe get into combat, so I could see that maybe working. But honestly having Jaws and Lifeswarm around to keep your boys healthy and have a beatstick could also be juicy.
Maybe my main question would be why bring the Veritant? It doesn’t seem like he’s adding a lot to the list, but maybe it was a points thing or you just like the model? Or maybe I’m missing some cool tech! Personally I’d try to see if I can get another wizard in there to see if you can lean in more on the Endless Spells, or maybe just a Priest for one of the great Prayers (which are in my opinion much stronger than the Spells for Wizards).
Just my two cents though! And thanks for checking out the video!
@ryanburruss I took the veritant because I wanted a priest in the list and he is a cooler model than the lord relictor and also newer. What would you suggest to bring instead? Thanks for the feedback.
@@aaravbasantani7774Oh yeah sorry, I forgot that he was a Priest. That’s good for sure, just hard to argue with the Relictor’a +1 to chant and being 10 pts cheaper is all. Maybe just bring both models to show you have a Relictor that’s painted but that you want to proxy the other guy? Ha
@ryanburruss Yh I could maybe do that. Relictor does seem a bit better and more reliable.
Do you think if they moved shackles to the aetherwrought lore it would balance them out?
I do think Shackles makes some sense lore-wise for sure. I think they need to figure out Pendulum regardless, and maybe bump up the damage for Swords. Cogs might be good enough, but it just feels so lackluster with the rest of what it comes with.
So yeah, maybe Shackles helps move the needle, but I think moving it out of Morbid Conjurations has more impact by taking something away from that lore rather than making me want to take Aetherwrought
Hey Ryan, Can I ask if I use coverfire, and the nearest model is an enemy endless spell, do I have to target the endless spell and not the nearest enemy unit ?
Edited: Hey Martin! Manifestations don’t count as units during the shooting phase (Advanced Rules - Magic 7.0), so no, you don’t have to target them for Covering Fire. Actually, as Hugo points out below, in the FAQ for the Advanced Rules page 43 (thus not Errata, which is why I missed it because it didn’t involve rewriting the wording in the book), it says you can’t target it for Covering Fire. Not sure what the rules reasoning is though.
@@ryanburruss Thank you and can't wait to hear about your Deepkin battles. My army is: Volt, Eidolon of Sea, Soulscryer, 1x6 & 2x3 morp eels, 1 shark, 3x 10 Reavers.
@@MartinWitt-w9p just FYI, ryan isnt correct. you cannot target the manifestation with covering fire. this was in the last FAQ
@@hugorikken2993Hugo’s right. Lots to keep track of here. I’ll edit it above.
As someone unfamiliar with your channel the amount of numbers on their profile is jarring and confusing. I’m sure the depth of knowledge is great but the presentation is rough
Thanks for your feedback, Mexi! We've got a spread of content. Some of it is really in-depth and mathematical, some of it is friendlier for a broader audience. Happy to hear your feedback. Have a look around at some other content. I'm sure you'll find something to your liking ❤️