Top 10 NO-GO defensive pistol rounds
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2023
- Selection of ammo is important especially in a defensive application. Let's look at my top 10 no go ammos. #everydaycarry #minuteman #rangegear #edcgear #firstresponders #lawenforcement #ammo #ammunition #defense #defensivetactics #firearms #concealedcarry #uscca #concealedcarrynation #defensiveammo #top10
Check out my top 10 rounds I recommend here
• Top 10 defensive handg...
Check out the top 10 rounds I recommend here th-cam.com/video/aLTDB7TiteY/w-d-xo.html
Live in the city the gangster don't Kerr about what ammo they use for crime's.
And we have to be careful 🤔 the law is backwards.
@Jason Lopez Yes but that also goes to the morality of a protector. Jordan Peterson says something I really like. We are virtuous because we are dangerous but we have control over it. Bad guys aren't virtuous they are just evil they don't care who they hurt. We as protectors care about innocence and the lives of others and we protect those things children especially. Protectors will do anything they can to mitigate the possibility of injury to anything innocent we are supposed to protect. Hence your ammo choices we make these choices because not only do they work better they help up protect innocents that are not involved.
But that is the fundamental difference we are dangerous but good and virtuous. They are evil.
How about the Underwood Xtreme Defender 9mm round? Solid copper with what looks like a screwdriver tip.
@@rosco1960 it's on my top 10 I recommend
Sooo basically anything that is actually effective??
Be careful with USCCA, the company that provides the insurance money for them will judge your case before it gets to trial and basically determine if you are guilty or not before defending you. If they believe your case doesn't meet their requirements for lawful self defense, they may refuse to defend you. Kayla Giles case is an example of this.
Noted I will look into that case
I heard of something like that in passing. What was the other policy provider that was actually decent?
People should read the fine print. She killed her estrange husband in front of their 3 kids. She was an abuser that bragged about hitting him in texts to her friends. She shouldn't have owned a gun in the first place. Don't they usually take guns away from guys, accused/convicted of domestic abuse?
They also don't cover civil unrest.
I knew there was a catch, no way you get a lawyer on retainer for that price.
1. Winchester Silver Tip 1:17
2. G2 Rip 2:40
3. Liberty Munitions Civil Defense 7:17
4. Remington Golden Sabre 8:29
5. Sig Elite Performance Sierra V Crown 9:20
6. Browning X-Point 11:31
7. Winchester USA Ready Hex-Vent 12:18
8. Winchester Ranger One 13:01
9. Winchester Whitebox Hollow points 14:31
10. Federal HydraShock 15:18
Thanks for saving me time bro
I have seen many FBI tests with denim and gel block that many on the list performed extremely well 🤔🤔
I was surprised at 5 and 10
@@ethan.amosberg8354, 5 & 10 I believe are BS.
Thank you
BS. Paul Harrell did a video on thr silvertip and it rocks. I'd trust him over you.
Paul is the best, most informative, and most charismatic guntuber on the platform.
Pauls the Goat🙏🙏🙏
Yeah, for sho, Paul Harrell is one of my top gun tube guys to watch. Mainly because of what other people describe as his "from the dawn of time explinations", personally I like the well articulated breakdowns to the minutely detail instead of just a couple sentences then moving on. Then again, I'm one that likes long form discussion podcasts that get Hella deep into a given subject.
USCCA , in their own words, state that if you're charged with a crime. They will NOT cover you. CHARGED, not CONVINCED. That's when you'll need the insurance. That's when they walk away.
so, basically useless if there is ANY actual dispute in the case which very often happens unless you come home and someone is actively stabbing your wife.
Like all insurance, they will gladly take your money but never want to pay out when you need it. Insurance is always a scam imo.
They are the NRA of insurance. Just want the money
They also have a clause that allows them to recoup the attorney fees if you (they) lose your case. This is the #1 reason I went with a different provider.
@@dothedewinmepretty much, look at all the fine print. Your better off finding an attorney and giving them that monthly payment as a retainer. If you shoot someone the state will prosecute. That means you are charged and guilty until trial until proven not. Hence you voided their contract. I called to verify upon seeing this after having it for two years, the call taker really tried dodging my questions until I asked yes or no and got the actual answer. These companies represent themselves as being on the same side as you but pop smoke in the rare and tragic event that you need them. Best insurance, if you have to use self defense, know how to apply first aid to the bad guy!
GREAT VIDEO! Blessings of grace, mercy, and peace! Thanks for your service
Thanks for the info. Most of us out here don’t have the ability to test various types of ammunition and we rely on magazine articles, TH-cam, rumble, etc., for our information on defense ammo. You did a good job of lining out the problems with each round you talked about. This is my first time viewing your channel and will watch others. Well done!
Thank you
This is not an ad for USAA . But then it is.
😆 Yeah I'm doing a 50 mile March for them in May and was doing some fundraising Uscca is what I was thinking.
@@unclefreedom213 you said it a bunch too i was honestly wondering if there was a new company out 😂 thanks for this it’s priceless man i have hydra shocks and i just emptied the mags out set aside for range use only. I appreciate your valuable opinion testing and feedback. ❤the 2A community y’all are the best
We’ve been with USAA for 27-Years - yep, I’m OLD [Army service: 1989-95] - and they GREAT!! Great Video, too. Just found you & I’ll be here regularly🇺🇸
My pleasure love passing on info that I learn
Careful with USCCA. Read the fine print. If convicted, you may be responsible for all or partial court costs and attorney fees.
Explore all the options out there before you make a decision. Your life may depend on it.
I believe attorneys on retainer is a good company because they are actual attorneys and not a insurance company. I think that's the name
I bought a handgun from a guy once, and he threw in a box of 9mm defensive rounds. They were the G2 RIP. I looked at him and said, "I'll never use those." He said, "Me neither." We got a chuckle out of it, and I took them. They've been sitting in a drawer ever since. Maybe one day I'll do some watermelon carving with them.
You bought you gun from another man of Substance and character it seems
RIP rounds would be hard to talk about to a jury
3:50 exactly
@Lindbo Knife & Tool yeah u wouldn't want ti explain that in the slightest
@@lindboknifeandtool personally, I'm not concerned with my choice of ammo in regards to the judicial system. I think you could make a compelling argument to how poorly they perform amidst a hypothetical aggravated assault trial which would rather be "murder" using more effective ammunition, lol.
The hst 124 gr +p from barrels at 3.75 and longer are the best performers in my opinion and have had the closest to picture performance through armadillos, and even in pigs
Very interesting. Thanks for doing this
Great advice👍thank you for the videos I appreciate your real life approach and honesty👍I'm subscribed 🤘🤠🤘
No other way to be my man. Thanks
OLD Silver Tip was different then new stuff. I used to buy the bullets for reloading. 175 g in 10mm and 145 in 357. I have taken multiple deer and hogs with them and RARELY recover a bullet.
The Golden Sabre +P 45 has taken two deer for me too. BOTH BANG FLOPS THRU&THRU. NO bullet recovered! Both inside 35-40 yards.
Hydra Shok is anotger one thats changed theu the years. When Federal bought technology it was a good bullet. I have also taken deer abd hogs with 45acp, 41 Mag and 357 Mag. NO BULLETS recovered. All left large holes and game quickly recovered.
Good video!
Oh yeah the old stuff was a hunting round made to penetrate the next stuff seems to be an underperforming defensive round. They still make a hunting version but I feel like the defensive stuff has wrecked its reputation
I use Speer gold dot and Hornady critical defense. I do have Winchester white box also. I have seen Paul Harrell use it, and it did alright on the meat target. Good video sir.
Yep
Critical Duty is better and used by federal agents
@@richardcarden4161 Perhaps but they have more restrictions regarding the Art of Shooting that you can shake a stick at.
I seriously appreciated the information.
Glad it helps thank you
Just found this video, and subscribed! Straight talk and common sense, with good examples and facts. And a whole lot of very good advice. Got to check out more of your stuff now. One minor point, at the end, I think you meant ‘USCCA’ and not ‘USAA’. 😉👍
Thank you and hope you like more of it. You are correct had USAA on the brain that day. I don't tend to pull punches. I released the rifle version of this video last night
Great information and your up front opinion and test results are gonna weigh in heavily on my future defensive ammo purchase!! Well done buddy!
Thanks!! Dude!
I agree for sure on liberty defense ammo. I've only run the 380 and it just powders other than the base.
Ive never shot the .380 but I can see that is a really fragile bullet moving at way 🔥
In the 2010s I loaded my used Glock 21 gen 4 .45 with Civil Defense loads. I lived in a metro area 🏘. The load seems hot 🔥 but I questioned the specs 🤓. I also had Winchester Ranger T T series 230gr +P.
Very good, thank you.
Great information thanks
The advancement in terminal ballistics over the last thirty five years is amazing.
So true. Flashlights are the same way. I 0 years ago I carried the 6P from surefire and it was unbelievable 61 lumens of blinding xenon light now I have an easy 1.5k of led goodness in a light half the size and cost
Rem bonded+p 124g golden saber bthp is my 9mm go to defense load it works.😁
Good info, thanks.
Thank you
I agree with your list other than the federal JHP H-shock never had over penetration issues with bare gel nor denim/ gel
Hello, I just wanted to reply to your comment, you have no reason to believe me as I'm just some schmuck you do not know but I wanted to try to help you if I can. I never did any gel testing or such but I do have two actual real world uses of fed hydrashock against human predators. Both had between 5 & 6 properly placed strikes using this ammo with the projectile sailing through without stopping the attack. It in fact caused an ammo change department wide due to the miserable performance. Please don't place too much faith into this round, I just want you to survive. Best wishes to you my friend, take care.
@@louisclemento9982and there’s also tons and tons of real world examples of hydrashok working to stop threats
From my understanding, the Golden Saber has a better reputation in 45 ACP. Back when they came out that is what I used in my 45's. These days bullet tech has reached the point where there are better options out there. My personal choices are Cor Bon or Ranger SXT.
Correct, the Golden Sabers performed very well in ballistic gel tests in .45 ACP, but in 9mm it performs like a FMJ. I guess it might just needs a larger opening in the front for it to open up reliably.
I have some OLD SilverTip in .380 and 30-30. Obviously for different purposes.
Both performed well in my testing -
but it appears 2020s SilverTip is a mere shadow of the 1990s version.
EDIT: Seeing the "silver" bullets (not cuurs LOL) you mentioned, they are all "shiny".
My SilverTips are actually metallic silver (dull) color -
I think they are actually silver alloy, but that's too expensive nowadays.
Yeah the new ones are nickle plated and are basically the white box hollow points plated in nickle. I have some old Silvertip in 30-06 if nothing else they were cool looking and those did work for sure.
This used to be the standard for many departments but went by the wayside after the '86 Miami shootout.
@Simple Simon : I still have a handful of those in .380ACP. Those are (roughly..) 88 grain HP's with (barely..) a very thin aluminum 'jacket'. Don't expect penetration over 7" in ANYTHING.
And here's a ballistics test of the "original" (10 years ago) -- 10" penetration through denim.
th-cam.com/video/Pk4cgOjJfvY/w-d-xo.html
@@unclefreedom213 What idiot came up with the idea of nickle plating a bullet? I have some old ones that I bought when I bought my Ruger .45 Colt. They still work, and work well.
Hey Unc, love this stuff, I have a question about Remington gold saber in 38 spc.?
more than happy with my HSTs...... nice video and good to know.
Man it takes some funny shit to make me laugh, but dammit I cracked up at some of the explanations you threw out there. Just say it like it is . Enjoyed your show & info .
Thank you! My Nana always taught me to say it like it is, the people that get mad because you told them like it is, weren't gonna listen anyway.
Gotta watch them critical defense too. They perform great, but there's been several times I've witnessed them fail to feed , the polymer tip catching on the feed ramp
Just finished this video and agree with all of it. I have personal experience with the 40 SW Federal Hydra Shock. Former LEO and found myself having to dispatch a couple different, very big, dogs. Complete passthrough, plugged up tip with hair and 0 expansion. Keep up the good work. Also anyone who is wooed into buying the niche ammo is a fool, it doesn't work and gives a prosecutor more crap to try and use against you in a self defense case!
Glad i found your channel.
Every hollow point has a manufacturers suggested minimum velocity which must be met if they are to expand as designed. The heavier the bullet and the shorter the barrel the lower the velocity out of the barrel and into the target. My carry gun has a 3.5 inch barrel. Because of this I went from Federal HST 147 grain to Federal HST 124 grain. The 124 grain consistently exceeded the minimal velocity thresholds while the 147 grain was barely at and sometimes below the manufacturers velocity thresh hold. If your life or the life of a loved one is on the line Its always better to have a lighter bullet that consistently expands than a heavier bullet that does not.
With the exception of Federal's 150gr HST Micro, which they designed for microcompacts.
..Velocity IS the main parameter WHEN determining the actual validity of (in THIS case) defensive ammo. I WON’T take ONE person’s opinion on VIRTUALLY ANYTHING.
@@m118lr thanks for SHOUTING certain WORDS to MAKE YOUR POINT, as irrelevant as your last statement is.
yes! exactly ! But, If they get too fast of FPS many brands expand too soon and then don't penetrate enough. Its a fine line to get both just right tho.
@@m118lr nothing wrong and in fact everything right in your desire to gather as much info as possible
I remember hydro shok from 1990. I liked it for my 357 magnum. But it's old school and sadly I don't own a 357 anymore. I buy federal HST now in 45 calibur for carry ammo.
Solid choice
I’m glad to hear that none of the ammo I use made your list.
The 357 silver tip was the highest one shot stopper for a long time so it must be the lower velocities of 9mm preventing it from working.
it not anywhere close to the same bullet design as the old one
Silver tip 9mm is fine. Paul Harrell did a video on it. The bullets had the exact velocity, expansion, and penetration one could expect out of standard pressure 9mm hollow points. There was nothing wrong with them.
If you're talking about E. Marshall's data it's the federal 125 grain hi shock jhp 357 mag. He had it at 98% one shot stops to the torso.
Federal nyclad 357 lead hollow points.
@@skystrider3717 I shot a bunch in 10mm auto and while it performed fine, it wasn't a hot as I liked it. Winchester had the Silver Tip loaded down to around 540 fpe and that just won't cut it! I normally carry Underwood 150 gr JHP and these out of my Glock 40 hover around the 800 fpe mark....quite the difference from the marshmallow loading of Winchester.
Great video! I can feel the passion
Thank you
I carry my M&P. 40 with Federal HSTs, 165gr. I completely trust these rounds, they just work.
Thanks!
You bet!
I use the Defender 147 gr. 9mm hollow points (recommended by my range). Fairly inexpensive, but if the gel block test I've seen (115 gr.), these should perform as needed.
The winchester defender? If so that's a solid round
147 gr HST 😎
Sorry to here about the Sig ammo, Iv got about 200 rounds of Vcrown 😢. It doesn’t make everybody’s top 10 but it’s the first time Iv seen it on a worst 10, lol. I’m a big Hornady fan but during the great ammo shortage it became available at a decent price an I grabbed some.
During the ammo issues us when it really took off. It was on the shelf when nothing else was. It's not bad ammo it's just not good for defensive use from every test I've done and honestly most that I've seen. I've also read and been told of it not working on things as small as a raccoon. That said it is accurate
I appreciate all the good info.
Have you experimented with defiant Munitions copper hollow point? I have heard good things about them.
Have not tried them so can't comment as to their performance.
Great channel brother. Keep this shit up
Thank you! I'm shocked how it kinda exploded. Hell, this is fun.
Sig elite ammo seems to be pretty hot, even their ball ammo, compared to other manufacturers offerings. Never had a split case, but recoil is noticeably more than other rounds I’ve shot with subcompact pistols.
Seeing how many comments I've gotten on the ammo it seem to be across the board. I agree it is noticeable on recoil and report
@@unclefreedom213 The V Crown 38 Super is pretty effective, but a bit on the slow side for a 38 Super, only listed at about 1230 fps. But it is fast enough to ensure the bullets expand well.
I think Sig Knew they needed above 1200FPS to get the old Sierra HP Bullet to expand. That's my theory. It sure wouldn't expand in Sierras own factory loads until they redesigned it a few months ago. Sierra completely re-enginerded their 380/9mm bullets. The large HP holes are .080 thou deeper and the actual bullet sticking out of the case is longer than the old bullet (to make up the weight). Their factory bullet is called Sierra Outdoor Master. Its much much better than their old stuff. Utuber "Tools and Targets" tested the old 9mm/380 and shamed them about how it wouldn't expand a few months ago! (So it over-penetrates) Sierra saw this, and improved it! Its now a really good 11-14" deep in gel, HP self defense round! (I don't know about barrier testing because most of these wont do anything past 4 layers of denim and gel) th-cam.com/video/lHrO6lso5rY/w-d-xo.html Hornady Critical DUTY is the ONLY one I know of designed to go thru barriers and achieve 12-14" gel after passing thru denim as well.
Let’s all be honest that no matter whatever we carry we will never know if it works until we end up in a bad situation. Whatever the case, practice with what you have and you should be fine. Nuff said.
I believe in having the best option possible that said if I miss with my favorite duty round and I get domed by a FMJ I should've practiced more. Handguns put holes in things gotta hit what you're aiming at
I've tested the golden saber in 9mm and 40 through all types of material. Never had an issue. Every round opened and penetrate very well.
In 9mm. Standard pressure 124gr HST. Federal 124gr Punch. Remington 124gr +P Bonded Golden Saber. Hornady 124 or 135gr +P Critical Duty.
Speer 124gr +P Gold Dot.
All trustworthy loads to consider.
Thank you, glad I found this, I’m in California, winding up in jail or sued is gonna happen.. even with Castle Doctrine done perfectly
Thr sad reality is even done perfectly in my state you're going to get sued for wrongful death. Even if you're proven good shoot, getting sued afterward by the family is separate and almost certain. It's a fine line we citizens walk to defend ourselves.
That's a shame but don't let being charged standing in the way to save yourself, home, or family. Lets us all pray we never have to do it.
@@brucemedley69 better judged by 12 than carried by 6
@Uncle Freedom not in calif!! The Civil suit even if you win will leave you broke and living in the trees along the freeway.
The thing about civil court is that you're not judged by 12 but by some stupid judge
Can you please test the Freedom Munitions X-DEF 124gr +P ? I'm currently carrying these rounds on all my guns because is affordable (cheap) I need to know if I should get rid of it or is okay to carry.
I will track some down and reach out to some folks. Shoot me a message on @unclefreedom213 on Instagram so I don't lose this message.
Well that was a dirty trick! I see the title, with the picture including my every day carry round, Hornady Critical Defense, and I tuned in just to see what kind of lunatic has problems with that round. I actually have no problems with your no-go rounds, although I was surprised you included the Hydra-Shok. I used to use Speer Gold Dot, but I haven't seen any the last few years. Have you tested any of the new TUI ammo? That stuff looks great.
Yeah my pinned comment has m top 10 rounds. TUI, Critical defense and duty and several others
Awesome video boss man‼️
I've purchase most of these ammo brands but have never put them through an actual test‼️
Only paper targets at the range.
What are your thoughts on A.R.M. ammo, Ballistics machinist - interceptor, Black Butterfly, Lehigh Defence - extream penetrator & extremely Defender,
Those Sig V crowns have setback issues too but there really accurate.. they get pushed back easily when you chamber them.. but I actually like Golden sabers in other calibers like the double tap 10mm 165 grain golden sabers are pretty insane and they still get 14" of penetration but leave a devastating wound channel.. Winchester Ranger T's suck in 9mm it seems but in 40 I actually like them kinda but you can't ever beat gold dots HST's and some budget loads that still work some of the rounds your mentioning might be different with a different caliber but you can pretty much always count on gold dots & HST's
absolutely on the v crowns I have seen that myself. I would disagree on the ranger t in 9mm every ranger t test I've done in +p and in 40 has passed including tests I've been present for done by other ammo manufacturers. The 165 Saber is the same projectiles loaded in 40 as well and while I haven't shot them in 10mm I'm still getting jacket separation in .40 velocity
Gotta watch all rounds for that setback. It will over pressure the gun and possibly create a dangerous come apart.
I rotate my ammo out as needed and visual inspect. And a round that's been chambered a few times gets set to the middle of the mag.
But visual inspection/comparison of length is the safest method.
Meh, I'm going to keep running my 155gr golden sabers in 40. They're clean(ish), accurate and and don't rupture the case while still delivering on the horsepower.
Full metal jacket did a good job on the enemy's During the wars. Today, you can't be too picky . Anything is better than throwing rocks. All you need is a headshot with any.
We wouldn't have run it if not for the convention and heads are hard to hit. I agree it does the job there are just better ways to do the same job now
Holy crap i like vcrowns but you are right them things are loud
Good, Thx
Good video. I tend to stay away from all the gimmicky exotic ammo that tends to flood the market every year or so, and stick with Federal HST or Gold Dots.
Totally not surprised to see the god awful terrible Browning X Point 147 grain 9mm on this list. Before I had even watched this video, that was one of the rounds that immediately came to mind.
Was surprised to see Sig's Elite Defense V Crown on this list. I agree it is loaded hot, I was getting right at and sometimes over 1,200 FPS out of a 3.98 inch barrel with the 115 grain variety and not much less out of the 124's. In bare gel, they did expand. I don't recall doing any barrier tests with them at that time so I couldn't comment on that aspect.
Yeah that x point is a special kind of terrible.
Was surprised to hear about the silver tip it's what I carry in my 10mm gonna have to look for a different defensive 10mm round
I put my top 10 go to rounds in the pinned comment link
.45 does not have to speed up to grow up to become a .45.😅
Pretty much anything in a stout 10mm is going to moving out fast enough to expand and do some serious damage.
@Tim Claus Yeah most 10mm falls into that almost magnum category
Trust me bro, if you shoot someone with a 10mm anything, you're gonna penatrate the perp!!! Just like a 44magnum!
I have a box of USA ready ammunition that will now be target ammunition. Thanks for the heads up.
my preferred crry is an old 357 6 shooter. loaded with 180gr jhp. also happens to be my preferred deer round when using pistol to hunt. I get uniform expansion, plenty of stopping power and the bullet generally stays in the target (no over-penetration). when I prefer to conceal carry, it's the tried and true 45 acp, 240gr hornady critical defense.
I don't ever want to have to use them in a defensive situation, but if I ever had to, I don't want to use 7 or 8 rounds when 1 will do the job.
240gr of gun powder is a lot for 1 ammo
He's referring to bullet weight dummy
It's tricky making a 9x19mm that will expand while still getting to the vitals.
Hornady would agree with you as would most bullet companies. Hell just handgun ammo in general it's definitely a balance of speed, lead density, and jacket core construction.
@@unclefreedom213 Unless you are dealing with a 357, 41 or 44 Mag, 357 Sig, 38 Super, or 10mm, you are pretty much always going to be on the margin of not fast enough to expand reliably.
Golden sober +p bonded are awesome ive done extensive testing bonded Golden Saber+p I got a video of plugging it and it still split in two pieces now when I downed the cloth to 4 layers it was beautiful. Obviously u have never tried golden saber+p bonded. It took 8 pieces of cotton to clogg and still split 4 layers was perfect try it please the plain golden saber sucks I'll give u that
I've shot them once wasn't impressed with barrier performance. Hell I'll try em again I'm okay with admitting I'm wrong if they're solid. I have a few others that have been requested to test as well.
I've used 9x19mm bonded GS 124gr JHP in my 9mm guns for around 16mo. I like the better QC Remington uses: 2020s. I use Federal HST 124gr +P too.
@17:00 Well damn it...Right there with ya though. 😢
Got a couple boxes of the MHP rounds a couple years ago cause they were pretty.
Not that it really mattered but the video was flipped horizontally. Great info. You are now my goto guy for ammo.
You might think I'm crazy, but I mostly carry cheap wad cutters in my pistols. .38, .44 special or .357, it works just fine and meets my expectations.
I've talked to a bunch of old timers that tell me about loading wadcutters backwards. I have a box of 250 148gr HBWC in the reloading room, might be something I need to try. Old tech vs New tech
Way back when Winchester Black Talons were pulled off the market they just happened to be what I carried in my Glock 21 .45. I had to find something different because the BTs were going to run out, they were worth a lot because they were forbidden and I didn't want the legal exposure if I had to use my weapon. Went to my LGS and explained my issue to the owner (who BTW i learned was a blithering idiot) and he told me "buy the golden Saber. The guy who designed BTs went to work at remington and it's the exact same bullet except it's gold" Um, okay Cliffy. Ended up going with 185 grain cor-bon until the Hornady critical duty and defense came out and switched to them.
If you ever want the Talon back grab some Ranger T that is the black talon just not black
Got a bunch of 2 and 3 of the no go top 10, recently got some of ballistic machinist's 9mm interceptors they look nice haven't fired these yet so don't know, they are solid copper expansion. Like the federal premium and the spear gold dot they both good 9mm ammos. What is your favorite 9mm ammo for defense, and then for penetration as another class?
Personally I carry the Novx ARX bullets in 9mm or 45acp. Love this ammo.
I have shot that ammo as well and the results in bare gel or clothing can be good. I have seen some problems through barriers and with under penetration. With the Underwood loading of the Lehigh extreme defender out there and not a lot of difference in price, Lehigh blows it out of the water. That said the ARX can be a hotrod in the right conditions
Thank you for the info.
That is your list of what not to purchase...do you have a list of your favorite home defense round?
Yes there is another video of my top ten favorites
What are 10 you'd recommend?
link in description
great video man, think you may have saved me some $$$...THANKS!
Supernatural fan here nice to find someone who liked that show lol. What you think about the underwood extreme defender?
An amazing round it's on my top ten link is in the pinned comment
Thanks for putting the research in and getting this out there. One thing to add to your list would be hand loaded hollow points. The guys who did my ccw class said it can be turned into a loaded to kill situation and not defense when it comes to court. I'm a fan of carrying critical defense. I've carried Speer gold dot, but only when amo was scarce and Hornaday was impossible to find.
Yeah I've heard that before too but it holds no weight for me. Just like having a defense minded factory the same can be said and even more so You loaded a bullet made fir defense and could easily articulate that you loaded the ammo for consistency and because defensive loads are harder to come by you were being more careful by carrying a round specifically for defense and thereby safer for bystanders because you took the time and care to load a defense only round instead if using fmj. Any decent lawyer would shred the handload argument. But then again some nit free areas in the country are gonna try ti acrew you no matter what
I used carry black talon for duty.. I bought several boxes... but its all too old now! I now carry critical duty and have critical defense in my wife's little. 38. I wonder how well the .38 works!
I really wish Winchester would bring back black talon. I hear the pdx is almost the same just not scary looking or sounding!
@Thomas Baker The defender series and the Ranger t are both the black talon bullet just nonlonger black. The rangers you can find in 50 packs for LE sales defenders only come in 20 packs. In .38 I run the +p critical duty it does exactly as intended out of my 2.5 and 3 inch revolver 9 to 13 inches of penetration no issues with heavy clothing protocol. Not a barrier round but also never claims to be for what it is designed for is my choice for the odd days when I wanna run thw wheel guns
@@unclefreedom213 cool thanks for your post
Good round
I have 2. Fed. Hydra shock and Hornady critical defense.. thanks for the lesson. I will make sure I load mags appropriately.
Thank you
I have the same two.
.44 special Hornaday and .357 Federal hydra shock. I'll be replacing my .357 with Hornaday asap.
I love ammo testing and talking about them and did you test HST 124+p? I'll check it out later on I just found your page.
yes I did and I do as well email me unclefreedom213@outlook.com be glad to swap data
@@unclefreedom213 will do
I actually have some 380 silvertip in a pocket pistol. Not my primary, im a 45 guy, but what I carry when I'm running lightweight.
Going to make some videos on testing it, because that is a good idea to actually see what it can legitimately do.
So well thought out and someone who know what he's talking about because he's actually done the testing to inform his opinions!
I agree with every one on your list and I'll add two more, Barnes XPB and anything from PMC e.g. Starfire. Both are underloaded, so the Barnes expands fine but underpenetrates and the PMC's tend to not expand. Awesome review overall, well done!
For me, the best performing loads in 9mm are always in the 124gr range, the hotter the better i.e. +P or +P+. Speer's Gold Dot, Federal's HST, Golden Saber Bonded, Hornady's Critical Duty, WW Ranger T and Ranger Bonded and even the XTP are all good performers in this range. The newer 147gr JHP's in 9mm are also decent performers, 147gr HST, Ranger Bonded, Ranger T, Golden Saber Bonded and Speer's 147gr Gold Dot. Remington (Federal actually) should just discontinue the unbonded Golden Saber in favour of the Bonded or Black Belt versions.
I have had pretty good luck with the Barnes TAC-XP in +p loading and yeah the Starfire is just terrible. The only issue I take with 147 loadings is that most of the time they are moving so slow that they are right on the threshold for expansion thus running a far greater risk of over penetration. Add in a barrier and they tend to fail since they were so close to not expanding anyway. But if you get a solid +p loading on a solidly well built 147 and that stuff can become a Chef's Kiss. I agree on the Sabres though I have had mixed bag results with the bonded and black belt. Sometimes they are great sometimes they don't work right having said that they are a vast improvement over the normal sabres that shed their jackets if you so much as look at them. Thank you for the kind words.
He might know bullets but he doesnt know shit about self defense and use of force law.
@@Nightfighter82 Who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?
@@unclefreedom213that's why the 147 grains are meant for subcompacts or just shorter barrels. It is indeed slower to give the action more time to clear & also yielding less velocities. There not intended for 4" + barrels for that precise reason.
@@nova68cutie interesting 🤔 I've never heard of that ..I prefer 124 anyway 🤷♂️ its the original grain weight for 9mm Luger +P HST & GOLD DOT are my faves 👌
I always have carried the same ammo as my local police issues it makes ammo selection not a issue in court just make sure it works with your barrel length
Author & cadre Massad Ayoob advised carrying only factory made ammunition. He also says choose loads like the local PD or sheriffs use 🚔.
@@DavidLLambertmobile He's a very practical guy.
@SteamCrane Most US PDs and state agency, county sheriffs use either Speer Gold Dot, Federal HST, Ranger One/T series, Hornady XTP-Critical Duty.
I mean no offense but this is a common myth spread around that ammo type could end you up in jail. It’s just not true even a little bit. Pretty much zero cases have ever resulted in a conviction. Carry what makes the most sense to you. As cops carry a myriad of different rounds kinda negating the point entirely anyway. People need to stop spreading this misinformation if you have some proof of a conviction that’s not some 1 off case I’d love to see it because people can sue over anything they can sue you for having a cool grip and stupid stuff all the time.
I shoot Underwood 124 gr+p+. It's 1300 fps, doesn't over penetrate, doesn't spilt cases, and is extremely consistent. The only problem, if you consider it a problem, is over expansion. It dumps energy so fast it doesn't over penetrate. For 17.99 a box its wicked through my sig p320 X legion. It just works and well.
Thanks.
I’d like to see this list for 10mm rounds. Civil defense 60 grain seems like a good choice in 10mm, but I don’t have the experience that you do.
I do think “overpenetration” is a nonissue is MOST cases, if not all. So I don’t base my decisions on whether or not the projectile penetrates deeper than 16 inches, and even “under penetration” (in this case 8”) doesn’t bother me too much because I understand what the 12-16” requirements was based on; I’m more concerned about if the ammo is going to do what it’s supposed to do! I don’t want a hollow tip that won’t expand reliably. Nor do I want ammo that has a hard time defeating any and every barrier.
With what you're looking at for criteria I was really impressed shooting the 10mm in critical duty, hst if you can find them, if you want barrier blindness don't go with things like civil defense they don't perform in harder barriers. Gold Dot due to speed are awesome in 10mm as well
Gimmick ammo that is light and super fast lacks mass for momentum and once it hits it might make a nice bloody crater but it won't penetrate well. In 10mm, 180 grain ammo at or past 500 ft-lbs will tend to be a one-shot stop round. If it's 200 grain when you can find it, it will be slower in all likelihood but penetrate better. For instance in 10mm to bring down a deer 200 grains at 1250 fps [=694 ft-lbs] works a lot better than 155 grains at 1500 feet per second [775 ft-lbs] with its lesser penetration. This is why the government bans calibers past .50, because the physical mass of bigger stuff is what really does the material damage, all things being equal.
@@jackieow good info! I appreciate that!
Didn't the civil defense 60 grain 10mm defeat body armor? I've seen it shoot meat and it is vicious
I personally tested it out of my Glock 20. Shooting 5 rounds at a new level IIIa vest. Every round went through with ease. The only other rounds that made it through out of every pistol caliber available and countless dozens of different brands of ammunition, was the 5.7x28mm 27grain green tip in the red and black box. Out of my pistol I was getting right at 2450-2500 FPS and they were easily getting through. The 10mm 60 grain Civil Defense and 5.7 mentioned above were the only two that got through. The 5.7 with 27 grain FN SS195s got through about 40% of the time.
Nothing in 9mm, 40, 45 etc. even got close. All were stopped easily.
Glad I found your channel I subscribed. It's USCCA, not usaa. Golden Sabor usually work better in the +p version. You can keep Hornady critical defense also. Hornady XTP bullets are my personal favorite. They must be driven HOT yet they expand and penatrate deep! I carry a 45 so I DON'T like federal HST either! I give a shit how big they get or how pretty they are! At 30 yards penatration is less than adequate! Federal is always slower than advertised velocities also! My take on everything is carry a 45 convert it to Super, use Buffalo Bore, Double Tap or Underwood ammunition and call it a day...
Hahahah Can't believe I mixed those two up. I'm doing a fundraiser for USAA 50 mile run next month must have still had it on the brain. The issue with sabers is the jacket separation I also love those xtps. I have love for the 45 as well but I will say Critcak duty still ranks way ip there out of 45. Handguns are all just poking holes either way
Concur on Underwood. I run 135gr XD Supers out of my FNX-45
I only use Underwood with the Lehigh defender projectiles, or maybe sometimes Buffalo Bore or Double Tap.
Underwood loading of the Lehigh is amazing I've shot some double TAP and they're pretty good. Buffalo Bore is just hot LOL I do run them in a 10mm when I hunt big kitty country
Different bullet construction delivers significantly different terminal performance in different calibers at different distances. I also test terminal performance. In terms of penetration, expansion & weight retention the Federal HST outperforms most things out there at contact to 25 yards from 3.5 to 5 inch barrels in calibers that begin with the number 4.
HST is a solid performer. After seeing some of the comments I think I'm gonna talk about bullet construction 101. What makes a good bullet and why some stuff works when others dont.
@@unclefreedom213 Good idea and perhaps that bullet design, toughness vs frangibility, mass, velocity, caliber, range & barrel lenght can sometimes have an effect on terminal performance.
You and I are on the same page. Sometimes I take for granted that people don't understand that bullet construction, velocity etc are directly related to terminal performance. I'm surrounded by gun people like me so if I say something about 147 gold dots are really close to expansion threshold even without a barrier due to the higher antimony of the lead mixture to make them penetrate barriers better. They get that but to a lot of people they think all hollowpoints expand the same way.
You are absolutely right about every single one of these rounds except. Civil defense. I had a self defense situation with this ammo and it absolutely got the job done. The stoping round went through his cellphone and and stop the attack...
Great video tho 🔥
It may have worked, but will it work all the time when there are more barriers involved like car glass, 10” of meat or bone, etc
@@spencermichaelson1882 it went through a cell phone and stopped him.. I'm sure it will 🤣
@@AtlantaPrin doubt
@@spencermichaelson1882if you're shooting through barriers in a "self defense situation" your probably going to prison for the rest of your life. That said, a car door/window glass are not exactly significant barriers to contend with vs a cell phone. Short of hitting a car door window mechanism, which will stop most handgun rounds
@@noway6633 if there’s a known gunman outside your bedroom door or wall r u gonna be chill because barriers mean prison time? Lol how about if there’s 3 dudes threatening your life and your car is boxed in ? Barriers are all around us. Also there’s been no cases of overpenetration into victims even with cops, it’s not a big deal , but there have been many cases of bullets not penetrating to vitals
I’m glad you put the silver tip as first. I’ve seen nothing but bad performance out of 90% of Winchesters silver tip line.
Oh it is just terrible. I love ballistics testing and really get to nerd out on it. Hell I've even done a bunch on .308, 30-06, .243, 300wm 6.5 and 6mm creed, working on 7 prc and 300 prc now out to 1k not because we need to know but because dammit I wanna know
Yes it completely sucks.
Works on werewolves, so i have heard.
@@unclefreedom213 To do ballistics nerding to the max you can get a big block of clay or mud like Kentucky Ballistics did in his 10mm testing, and compare crater volumes (how much grain or water to fill the crater). That way you can get real scientific numbers for comparison, by the numbers, as to does A or B have the best terminal ballistics. It's all about how much mass gets accelerated to the requisite velocity (physics) and blasted away when the bullet hits the target.
Ballistic gel is good for what it does, but it is hard to actually measure the temporary cavity, by definition. Clay is best for some comparisons because it freezes the result of the physics in time, then you can make exact numerical comparison according to the displaced volume. You can also scale milliliters of clay cavity displacement to joules of energy input from the propellant, for an efficiency ratio. Then ditto with different bullet weights and shapes given identical propellant charges, to again make efficiency comparisons. By the numbers.
The WWB in meat and bones 115 grain JHP work great for me. And in meat and bones no critical duty or defense round will expand any way shape or for except the .40 critical defense. It did really well. All target were set up like Paul Harrell targets. Only way I can get and critical duty or defense rounds to open in 9mm and .40 is to go through a water jug 1st. Gimmick rounds, in my opinion. I don’t do gel I do clothing and meat n bones. Hst, and law enforcement golden sabers, and ranger t in .40. Gold dots are fair.
Just discovered your channel. You done screwed my whole carry game in the bootox. The Civil Defense is my typical 'in the gun' for 9, 10 & 45. Because it makes a tragic disaster at about 3" and the penetrates in clear gel (in my tests) to about 12" in all 3 calibers. 3" barrel for 9, 4" on 10mm & 45acp. Hell, I use their 96 grain Animal Instinct in 300BLK which is basically the same thing but the base goes 24"+ consistently.
The Golden Saber in 185gr was my go-to for 45 for a long time. Defender Ammunition down by Fort Bragg loads the 102gr 9/380 in their 380 ammo and it works great. Not very fast, obviously, but gel likes it.
But gel isn't usually a deadly threat. Not even in Johnston County, North Carolina. Bipedal, nearly hairless, usually toothless tweakers and the type are a different matter.
I picked up 127 +P+ Ranger T-series and 147 Ranger T and HST to test (all from Lawmen's Supply in Raleigh, NC). Got a case of PMC SFX 124 from Palmetto State today. It is supposed to mushroom very similar to Sig V-Crown which has always been similar to HST when I tested it. PSA has it under twenty a box, listed as 20rd boxes. What landed on my porch is 50rd boxes under twenty bux, shipped and taxed.
Guess I best find some more reviews and order more gel blocks.
Nice presentation. Liked and subscribed.
I have one of those rounds and this hurts my feelings. Luckily it's been so long that I forgot how much money I wasted lol.
Hahahaha that's a good way to view it
I have only used Federal Hydra-Shock in.45 caliber. With the subsonic speeds it doesn’t over penetrate. Horniday Critical Defense in all other calibers. Working as security / personal protection over pen was a huge concern for liability. Shooting through barriers was highly frowned upon. You often don’t know what is on the other side other than the intended target.
I like that you selected your ammo based on your performance need. That's actually the biggest reason behind the video. Folks get seriously wrapped around the axel doing everything they can. to discredit what I said, all the while missing the part where I discussed my results and where I would pick the round. I applaud you sir.
Even in .45ACP, the 230gr. HydraShoks aren't that great. If you can find the 185gr.+P version, it works SLIGHTLY better. The HydraShoks are an old design, and as soon as I could, they were replaced by the HSTs.
@@SouthernRebel1970 I call BS on that. I saw a video in which someone shot a dead hog broadside with the 230gr hydra shok and it expanded very nicely and penetrated very well. If it expands but it exits, most likely it won't have enough kinetic energy to really do any collateral damage.
@@wuxxie843 Not going to chance it just in case someone's child could be behind the target
@@joelkelly169 If a child were to be strapped behind an attacker, I wouldn’t even risk shooting, just take cover. He (or even she) can just turn around doing things with the child facing me, what should I do now?
I have always had consistant and reliable performance from Speers GDHP. The 124 grain variety.
Great video man! Merica!💪🇺🇸
Thank you!
From firsthand experience when a friend had a negligent discharge (no, we are still not on speaking terms) with the Sig Sauer jacketed hollopoint defense ammo. All I can say, is they did exactly what was intended. It fully expanded to about twice the width of the 9mm bullet before firing. Its been 10 years or so, and i still dont walk correctly. So... at least anecdotally, i personally know what its like to be hit with that defense anmo. And from that point forward, thats all i use for defense. I guess I'm in that small camp of people who actually know firsthand what your carry ammo feels like on the receiving end. Thats not a brag, but i can vouch. One hit and i was down immediately.
Oh, and also the jacket did not separate from the lead. I still have it to this day, its wider than a .45 fmj. I would send you a picture of both the wound Channel measured in the er, and the expanded bullet, but can't share that on TH-cam
BONDED +p golden sabers are one of my preferred hollowpoints that I’ve tested, regular golden sabers I’d stay away from.
The bonded 230gr 45acp +p golden sabers stopped for me at 14” with a nice permanent wound cavity and really nice temporary cavity. Sig 230gr v crown stopped at 12” and opens a tiny bit bigger, but left a mediocre permanent wound cavity.
I need to shoot some 45 bonded sabers haven't done that yet
@@unclefreedom213 I think you will like them. Keep up the good content 👍
The Golden Saber Bonded are a solid performer and pretty much solves all of vanilla Golden Saber's issues, so much so that I really think Remington needs to just retire the standard Golden Sabers and only produce the bonded
What is your opinion on the Speer gold dot G2 147 grain I know it has been used by law enforcement and still is but what’s your opinion on it
Facts don’t care about your feelings! Love it! Looks like my sig ammo will be for the range…
Folks really get attached to a defensive ammo type. I was that way too ran hydrashocks or Black talons and you couldn't convince me otherwise. Dove into the world of ballistics with an open mind and took the data. Realized pretty quick that just because it's well marketed, pretty or expensive doesn't mean it actually works.
I like the Lehigh defense extreme defenders in 9mm and extreme Penetrators in 380. I'm surprised the prosecution doesn't charge you with premeditation just for carrying a gun.
Don't give them any more ideas lol. Thank God they don't
Also yeah I'm super impressed by the lehigh rounds for handgun mainly just a proven performer
Prosecutors pretty much do this every time, unless they are following the woke agenda.
Your comment about the Winchester Silver Tip was worth a like on its own. 🤣
Solid info, appreciate it!
Thanks for this...can you make a Top 5 go ammo? I have lots of ammo to use in practice now.
Check my pinned comment
@@unclefreedom213 you got a new subscriber!