@ZeroEmpires look at 27:50 the castle fires to the left and for some reason kills the deer! There wasn't anything from Daut and the deer was still alive 30 seconds before when the screen was more the the left. that is so weird.
Man I have to learn how to micro and fight my battles better. I always lose way too many battles because of terrible micro'ing or bad unit composition. Both of these guys do an incredible job. ZeroEmpires and T90 - Great job with this one. You guys do a very good job of highlighting what is happening, explaining it for the beginner crowd, and showing what was done well and what could have been done better. Nice work!
32:53 Scorpions do 3 damage per bolt to siege rams because they do 0 melee damage and rams have -3 melee armor. Still not much, I think organ guns do 9 damage per volley to rams (I don't have that expansion so can't test it myself).
Scorpions do piercing damage(ranged), so melee armor does not come to consideration in damage calculation, scorpions have something like 12 pierce attack, so damage is reduced to 1(unless there is some bonus damage vs rams, as those are also irreducible). Attacks in AOE choose only one type of armor in consideration and calculate according to that, in your calculation is mistake because you reduced their attack by one armor and then boosted it by another and that's not how it works.
I played this map using Indian civilization and fucking lost 2 mins in the game.... My freaking villagers started worshiping cows instead of killing them for food: (
I know that AOE players don't see it this way, but I think that using the small tree mod is cheating. I know most semi-serious+ players use it but to me, using or getting abused by the terrain is part of the game.
+Michael I get where you are coming from, but that's a bit like saying that changing hotkeys is cheating. It gives one side an advantage, but it's a minor advantage that doesn't change the balancing if both sides use it. Similar to grid it reduces randomness. Viper fell far behind in the first game because his building was placed suboptimally and while Viper uses both mods, the chances that things like that happen are reduced a lot by the two mods. While you seem to appreciate some randomness, I can see why tournament players don't want to have to deal with that.
I don't think that's a valid analogy because unless you're talking about some patch that gives you some special hotkey access, the hotkeys that I'm thinking of are part of the normal control features of the game. Small trees is a hack done to improve vision. Terrain is part of the game so fog of war, navigating cliffs, dealing with damage characteristics of high ground vs. low ground and yes, trees, are also part of the game. I mean, I know that most of the people who play online seem to use it and that's fine and all. I just don't think people should in the spirit of fairness.
The difference to FoW and high ground vs low ground is that it has strategic applications, large trees don't. They only have the tendency to randomly fuck up your income. I agree that it's an advantage to not have them and I can see your point about it being outside of the game. But I'd argue that it improves the quality of matches and that's more worth to me than the potential that one side didn't get it and fucks up because they didn't get it. Just because it's not a feature of the game doesn't mean that it shouldn't be used.
I think that the replay should be a bit bigger, and you should also zoom at the interesting part of the replay. Example: At 18:58 the replay screen could be a bit bigger, and should have been zoomed at the monks. Because currently it is pointless in my opinion.
LUL wtf is nily talking? the last minutes didnt matter?! if it wasnt for the siege rams, daut could ve pushed back, they were soaking so much dmg from the handcannoniers, which basically won viper the game
Thats a stupid way to argue in my opinion. The gameplan is your winning condition, the execution is the winning move. Your argument implies that there was no way for daut to win the game as soon as viper reached late imp but that ain`t true. The winning move were the rams obviously.
I think the scenario nily is talking about is that even if viper didn't do the ram play and just kept trading, once daut runs out of gold he fights +4/4hussars and aoe halbs with his 4/4 light cav and his 4/3 halbs. And Viper mostly traded trash, so he'll have some siege Onagers left once the bombard cannons etc are finally down.
There were 9gold mines left, some of them bearly touched. No way viper could ve held against an army of ~4000 gold value (8Bombard cannons/48Hand cannoneers) long enough that his trash tech advantage would kick in. (I guess thats safe estimate to make considering the fight from 29:45-30:30)
it's really the default snow texture that is awful - using some skin packs, you can get very bright white snow that somehow remains very easy on the eyes. just putting that out there
this make me realize you dont really need to always aim at the TC. maybe im just dumb but im baffled by the fact that 1 hill can change the entire game
i have aoe2 hd installed from steam but my resolution is stuck , how can i have such a huge resolution? also, its ultra choppy i get like 10fps even if i have a uber video card, what the heck is wrong with this game
Does anyone know how to reduce the multiplayer lag? I am getting major delays in actions even when hosting and I have over 50Mbps and less than 24ms ping...
The higher the unit in comparison to what it's attacking, the more damage it does. Archers on a hill attacking units not on a hill will do more damage than usual.
1) Provides a lot of range and field of vision. 2) The ranged units standing on the higher ground deal more damage to the ones on lower ground. 3) Units on lower ground lose accuracy heavily when attacking uphill. They also have lower vision range. 4) A castle on uphill provides one of the most difficult to breach situations. A castle+ trebs combo can make your castle almost invulnerable from enemy trebs
It just bugs me when I see players resign so quickly. So, first Viper pushes the hill and takes it with his castle. Daut doesn't quit, pushes the hill, destroys Viper's castle, and then puts his own castle down. Then Viper pushes back again and takes down Daut's castle. Daut quits almost immediately. He still has lots of gold income from his relics, even if he's no longer going to be getting gold from the hill. Why did he quit? Viper didn't have it in the bag. I said it in another post: sometimes it seems these high-rated players have such rarefied strategies and plans that they just give up when a few things don't go right. Am I wrong in that assessment? I'm really trying to figure out why Daut would quit that soon. Was he tired of playing that match, decided that a match that goes on that long isn't worth playing for any longer? Because I really don't see at all that Viper had it in the bag. Daut could have walled up, built a bunch more units, maybe found a way to get a castle up on Viper's doorstep, or something, and in the long run probably would have outlasted Viper through attrition because of his gold income. I just don't get it, except that some players want short games, don't want to worry about the long run, and have a very narrow view of what victory means to them, and if they fail to achieve it they seem to like to give up.
He explained it in the beginning. Zero turned on a mod that turns off the snow so that there isn't a glare on everything. While the mod makes the snow go away, it doesn't turn off the footprints.
Seeing one o the first pro games of this game, a little bit of a bummer is that as it is with most strategies from what I've heard, you don't really get to see all the nice flashy units in action, but rather, quite expectedly, massing weak-ass units like scouts battling it out 90% of the time and the game is usually over until u can make any of the cool units. What we used to do as noob kids was massing all the flashy units, of course against weak oponents. Back then I thought that scout is a scouting, not a fighting unit and it is to be used as such.
@zeriEmpires - Age of Empires 2A nice UI for the picking phase would be cool prioer to the game, so us Viewers can make our own strats based on the picks. Like dota 2, LoL and csgo, love the commentary :) Cheers.
Now we know why pros play hun wars so much for 1v1. Xbow civs are limited by mangonels and the pace is slow. Knight civs are just shut down by walls and monks and end up camping all castle age. Not a single vil was killed. Not a single raid was carried out. Only huns can play all in in castle. Pros like a fast and intense game, not a prolonged boom preparing for imp.
daut lost the hill, his castle and his expensive army. his trash is inferior to viper. he knows. Thus, even if he keeps on playing, he will always remain behind viper. It is inevitable loss that he has to accept.
Developers needs to boost franks,byzantine and Teutons. Byzantine Buildings gain should be +25% HPs in Dark Age, +50% Feudal Age, +75% Castle Age, +100% Imperial Age Franks Throwing Axeman should have at least 50% more hp. Teutonic knight should be faster.
Small trees......yuck. Haha nah, as a old player... I'd always liked them big ass trees. ...they've never gotten in my way of spotting a unit. Also overall, them trees made it more fun in my opinion.
![EGM Grand Final- TheViper vs DauT [Game 3]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/h9yF7sAsSpk/mqdefault.jpg)
![EGM Grand Final- TheViper vs DauT [Game 3]](/img/tr.png)
![EGM Grand Final- TheViper vs DauT [Game 1]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4644oQlo31I/mqdefault.jpg)
![Epic Game - TheViper vs DauT [Koreans vs Britons]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NqFCHVx7CfU/mqdefault.jpg)
Man I just discovered competitive AOE2. This stuff is so awesome.
Almost as good as sex eh?
me too and i'm really excited to see the best plays
What a game! Couldn't be sure of how it'll end until the last minute. gg! :D
29:23 shriodingers bombard cannon :D
Omg after seeing the 1st game I didn't expect the 2nd one to be even better!
Awesome ram push there. That was sick.
@ZeroEmpires look at 27:50 the castle fires to the left and for some reason kills the deer! There wasn't anything from Daut and the deer was still alive 30 seconds before when the screen was more the the left. that is so weird.
I thought you were going to add the civ draft? curious to see how they choose and strategies prior to game.
Man I have to learn how to micro and fight my battles better. I always lose way too many battles because of terrible micro'ing or bad unit composition. Both of these guys do an incredible job. ZeroEmpires and T90 - Great job with this one. You guys do a very good job of highlighting what is happening, explaining it for the beginner crowd, and showing what was done well and what could have been done better. Nice work!
32:53 Scorpions do 3 damage per bolt to siege rams because they do 0 melee damage and rams have -3 melee armor. Still not much, I think organ guns do 9 damage per volley to rams (I don't have that expansion so can't test it myself).
Scorpions do piercing damage(ranged), so melee armor does not come to consideration in damage calculation, scorpions have something like 12 pierce attack, so damage is reduced to 1(unless there is some bonus damage vs rams, as those are also irreducible).
Attacks in AOE choose only one type of armor in consideration and calculate according to that, in your calculation is mistake because you reduced their attack by one armor and then boosted it by another and that's not how it works.
I played this map using Indian civilization and fucking lost 2 mins in the game....
My freaking villagers started worshiping cows instead of killing them for food: (
Racist but funny xD
Akash Darwin How is that racist lol
I liked the big trees :(
I know that AOE players don't see it this way, but I think that using the small tree mod is cheating. I know most semi-serious+ players use it but to me, using or getting abused by the terrain is part of the game.
+Michael I get where you are coming from, but that's a bit like saying that changing hotkeys is cheating. It gives one side an advantage, but it's a minor advantage that doesn't change the balancing if both sides use it.
Similar to grid it reduces randomness. Viper fell far behind in the first game because his building was placed suboptimally and while Viper uses both mods, the chances that things like that happen are reduced a lot by the two mods. While you seem to appreciate some randomness, I can see why tournament players don't want to have to deal with that.
I don't think that's a valid analogy because unless you're talking about some patch that gives you some special hotkey access, the hotkeys that I'm thinking of are part of the normal control features of the game. Small trees is a hack done to improve vision. Terrain is part of the game so fog of war, navigating cliffs, dealing with damage characteristics of high ground vs. low ground and yes, trees, are also part of the game. I mean, I know that most of the people who play online seem to use it and that's fine and all. I just don't think people should in the spirit of fairness.
The difference to FoW and high ground vs low ground is that it has strategic applications, large trees don't. They only have the tendency to randomly fuck up your income.
I agree that it's an advantage to not have them and I can see your point about it being outside of the game. But I'd argue that it improves the quality of matches and that's more worth to me than the potential that one side didn't get it and fucks up because they didn't get it.
Just because it's not a feature of the game doesn't mean that it shouldn't be used.
Disadvantage was the word you were looking for.
yes, yes, yes! That's what I thought too
I think that the replay should be a bit bigger, and you should also zoom at the interesting part of the replay.
Example: At 18:58 the replay screen could be a bit bigger, and should have been zoomed at the monks.
Because currently it is pointless in my opinion.
can be good with a better implementation
LUL wtf is nily talking? the last minutes didnt matter?! if it wasnt for the siege rams, daut could ve pushed back, they were soaking so much dmg from the handcannoniers, which basically won viper the game
exactly
He brought the game to late imp where his army was clearly superior, the winning move was is the gameplan.
Thats a stupid way to argue in my opinion. The gameplan is your winning condition, the execution is the winning move.
Your argument implies that there was no way for daut to win the game as soon as viper reached late imp but that ain`t true. The winning move were the rams obviously.
I think the scenario nily is talking about is that even if viper didn't do the ram play and just kept trading, once daut runs out of gold he fights +4/4hussars and aoe halbs with his 4/4 light cav and his 4/3 halbs. And Viper mostly traded trash, so he'll have some siege Onagers left once the bombard cannons etc are finally down.
There were 9gold mines left, some of them bearly touched. No way viper could ve held against an army of ~4000 gold value (8Bombard cannons/48Hand cannoneers) long enough that his trash tech advantage would kick in. (I guess thats safe estimate to make considering the fight from 29:45-30:30)
it's really the default snow texture that is awful - using some skin packs, you can get very bright white snow that somehow remains very easy on the eyes. just putting that out there
this make me realize you dont really need to always aim at the TC. maybe im just dumb but im baffled by the fact that 1 hill can change the entire game
Great commentary!!!!
when the winged hussards arrived!
Winged hussars died ahaha.
30:20 I love the gold miners, just going about their business as all this shit is going down around them ^^
Only in AoE xD
This was a very well casted game.
Love the commentary!
i have aoe2 hd installed from steam but my resolution is stuck , how can i have such a huge resolution?
also, its ultra choppy i get like 10fps even if i have a uber video card, what the heck is wrong with this game
Just what I needed at work!
Does anyone know how to reduce the multiplayer lag? I am getting major
delays in actions even when hosting and I have over 50Mbps and less than
24ms ping...
What is the schedule for the games, daily?
tournament is alreday over...
KOSOVOisSERBIA888 I mean for the casting from zero?
What map is that?
These 2 are so close in skill level, both games got decided by better unit choice
also, I don't think I've seen the magyars even once in the tournament...
can anyone explain why the hill is such an advantage?
The higher the unit in comparison to what it's attacking, the more damage it does. Archers on a hill attacking units not on a hill will do more damage than usual.
1) Provides a lot of range and field of vision.
2) The ranged units standing on the higher ground deal more damage to the ones on lower ground.
3) Units on lower ground lose accuracy heavily when attacking uphill. They also have lower vision range.
4) A castle on uphill provides one of the most difficult to breach situations. A castle+ trebs combo can make your castle almost invulnerable from enemy trebs
Very nice game indeed, maybe did daut quit too early tho?
Why not get light cavalry when they have 7 scouts? It's a very cheap upgrade, and probably worth more than the ~1.5 knights you could get from it.
"Bloody-Hill"
Why does Viper keep a badly injured scout in the fighting? Why not send him to a safe spot until you've got a monk or castle?
why put such effort over a cheap unit?
Daut should use some better units than the Light Cavalry this match..
agreed. they were just so weak and didnt accomplish anything.
They killed onagers. They did what they're meant for. But they couldn't do anything vs rams and halbs. Slavs just out compositioned khmers.
It just bugs me when I see players resign so quickly. So, first Viper pushes the hill and takes it with his castle. Daut doesn't quit, pushes the hill, destroys Viper's castle, and then puts his own castle down. Then Viper pushes back again and takes down Daut's castle. Daut quits almost immediately. He still has lots of gold income from his relics, even if he's no longer going to be getting gold from the hill. Why did he quit? Viper didn't have it in the bag. I said it in another post: sometimes it seems these high-rated players have such rarefied strategies and plans that they just give up when a few things don't go right. Am I wrong in that assessment? I'm really trying to figure out why Daut would quit that soon. Was he tired of playing that match, decided that a match that goes on that long isn't worth playing for any longer? Because I really don't see at all that Viper had it in the bag. Daut could have walled up, built a bunch more units, maybe found a way to get a castle up on Viper's doorstep, or something, and in the long run probably would have outlasted Viper through attrition because of his gold income. I just don't get it, except that some players want short games, don't want to worry about the long run, and have a very narrow view of what victory means to them, and if they fail to achieve it they seem to like to give up.
Do you play online AOE?
The commentator sounds like Alex Gillon F1 Racing ^^
wait wait wait wait wait... units leave footprints on the ground?
He explained it in the beginning. Zero turned on a mod that turns off the snow so that there isn't a glare on everything. While the mod makes the snow go away, it doesn't turn off the footprints.
I still don't understand the tactic of placing random buildings into your palisades and wasting wood.
Seeing one o the first pro games of this game, a little bit of a bummer is that as it is with most strategies from what I've heard, you don't really get to see all the nice flashy units in action, but rather, quite expectedly, massing weak-ass units like scouts battling it out 90% of the time and the game is usually over until u can make any of the cool units. What we used to do as noob kids was massing all the flashy units, of course against weak oponents. Back then I thought that scout is a scouting, not a fighting unit and it is to be used as such.
@zeriEmpires - Age of Empires 2A nice UI for the picking phase would be cool prioer to the game, so us Viewers can make our own strats based on the picks. Like dota 2, LoL and csgo, love the commentary :)
Cheers.
23:40
Is it fair to say DauT got... rammed?
One problem with Daut is when he walls, he always walls too conservatively and never expands.
Now we know why pros play hun wars so much for 1v1. Xbow civs are limited by mangonels and the pace is slow. Knight civs are just shut down by walls and monks and end up camping all castle age. Not a single vil was killed. Not a single raid was carried out. Only huns can play all in in castle. Pros like a fast and intense game, not a prolonged boom preparing for imp.
w8 y does he win, he didnt destroy everything?
daut lost the hill, his castle and his expensive army. his trash is inferior to viper. he knows. Thus, even if he keeps on playing, he will always remain behind viper. It is inevitable loss that he has to accept.
Scorpions are always a bad choice sadly, the devs really need to buff them.
Karl Hans I've made use of them better than onagers in some scenarios.
y u gg w 2.5food, almost k gold, and 1k wood in your bank?
Clicking up some halbs and elite skirms too dificult? aiaiai
Developers needs to boost franks,byzantine and Teutons.
Byzantine Buildings gain should be +25% HPs in Dark Age, +50% Feudal Age, +75% Castle Age, +100% Imperial Age
Franks Throwing Axeman should have at least 50% more hp.
Teutonic knight should be faster.
Great game! The units leave foot trail on the snow, but it doesn't look well on the grass mod here
Why delete the snow? This looks ugly. Get a mod to alter the look, if you don't like the default snow.
It took DauT like 20 minutes to get that relic in! a heroic push by battle monk at th-cam.com/video/P7WDjqajmro/w-d-xo.html
Wow, what a game
If daut targetted the seige onagers better, he would have one.
The commentators have the greatest lack of industrial thinking I've ever seen.
Slavish monks had armour.
"aggressively walling up"
Slavs Slavs Slavs
AoE needs a Slav Squat mod
and stalkers too
daut should have used champions instead of massing on scorpions and cannons
slavs champion with druzhina is superior
I daut that he is bact into a corner
I siege what you built there
Great casting!
poland into space! astronaut hussars!
Mongols will kill this map.
Ghenghis prolly smiling.
HUUGE Trouble : D
Small trees......yuck. Haha nah, as a old player... I'd always liked them big ass trees.
...they've never gotten in my way of spotting a unit. Also overall, them trees made it more fun
in my opinion.
Gg
igivi
blue is suck.....arrow can counter infantry....why build so much ballista ～too expensive and be taken by light knight
a slav getting beaten by slavs
first