Why Push and Flashpoint SUCK
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
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#overwatch2 #season10 #venture #gaming #push #flashpoint #clash
My favorite map is blizzard world, cuz A: I love theme parks and B: hybrid best map type. What is your favorite map?
The only problem I have with flashpoint is spending half of the match walking to the point. Other than that, it’s significantly more fun to play than Push.
I hate how the enemy team spawns really close to you sometimes after you cap a point
One of my major pet peeves about push is the fact that the switch spawn feature doesn't work when your robot reaches the further checkpoint
Yeah fr, normally you can tp to the next spawn but idk why it doesn't work on push
I hate push a lot. We lost 2 teamfights in the beginning. We made an incredible comeback, won 5 teamfights in a row. Doesn't matter, forward spawns for the enemies made it so we couldn't push past their record. Winning 5 teamfights in a row is a win in every game mode, or at least an incredible advantage. In push, it depends on when those teamfights are won. They only matter if you are currently holding the robot.
One (pretty irelevant) issue I have with Push is that it doesn't really make sense lore-wise. Silly, I know, but the other modes always felt like actual missions Overwatch or Talon could go to - either protecting teritory or escorting some payload with important resources for war. Push tho? Why tf would either faction care about that wall being pushed? Wtf is the point???
I know it's not about actual gameplay but it's just a missed opportunity of sorts.
While I like the appeal of payloads, nothing about overwatch game modes makes sense, really. Like, teams of mixed factions? Both teams have the same characters? Why heroes get resurrected?? Why overwatch agents would wanna destroy omnic ghetto on Kings Row or push the cargo stolen from a train to a Deadlock Gang hideout?? Have you even noticed that maps don’t really make much sense?
Given all this it’s kind of absurd to say that Push makes no sense lore wise
overlooked and honestly really good point. It's been bugging me since the mode came out
I like Push mainly because it just ENDS. I've always hated the: okay you're on attack. Okay. Now I'm on attack. Okay now we do it again. Push just ends. Sometimes that's more important than anything else
Underrated. I like this about Push too. No hemming and hawing. 10 minutes and an OT.
Have have an additional qualm for each mode.
Flashpoint: Spawn locations are WAY too far from the points. It's like each death you have to go on a march through the wilderness before you can help out your team. The fact that the race to the next point is often asymmetrical and messy, and getting caught out and killed is very hard to avoid, exacerbates the issue.
Push: There is way too much game time moving the robot back and forth across the whole map and not actually making progress. It's incredibly arduous. Not to mention, if the enemy gets 1 cm of progress over you, you have to push ALLLLL the way back across the whole map through multiple team fights, just to reverse that tiny advantage. It's a very bad feeling game mode.
Push is okay, I'm indifferent. Flash sucks though because it just takes too long. A lot of people including myself would rather have 2CP.
Just make the bot Usain bolt when not pushing,
I feel like Push and Flashpoint are fine for quickplay but are a nightmare in Ranked for the reasons you stated. I'm not a big fan of either, really. And I won't lie I'm one of the few who wished they brought back 2CP.
I think a lot of games go a bit *too* fast now to the point where it doesn't feel good to play. It often feels like if you don't have a very good first team fight, the game is practically lost, which kind of defeats the point of a strategy game. But hey.
It’s a meme “thinking about 2CP; playing 2CP” lol.
While I do like the map designs, and a good half of them was decently balanced, I don’t really wanna go back to 6:6 rounds taking 30 minutes of my life just to lose anyway.
I never played OW1 but 2CP looks fun
@@AgniFirePunchtrust me it sucks to play 2CP
Flashpoint: we hear you dont like 2cp .....how about a first to 3cp but king of the hill style?huh? Huh? Anyone? Ah, they will love it
Push: want a timed game mode that feels unwinnable after 1 team fight? Hahaha, have we got something for you
- some blizzard dev before being layed off
Great Video, I was hoping for a few more discussion points, But this is definitely an interesting insight!
Here's my gamemode ranking:
1. Control
2. Escort
3. Hybrid
4. Assault
5. Push
6. Flashpoint
I would put push at the bottom
Honestly this is a really good point that I had never considered before. In the moment I never noticed it but not having separate rounds really does change the feel of the game. Push is just forward forward forward until someone wins. I don't mind flashpoint as much mainly because it does retain some of the push and pull that KOTH has, where some of it is spent offensively and some defensively, and there are interesting moments where fights can happen between points, but overall the lack of separate rounds does have a huge impact on how it feels to play.
Edit: awesome video btw thx for uploading :)
I havent seen this take about the start of rounds before and i must say i agree.
This new overwatch dev team seems to be focusing way too much on the game being an FPS instead of it being a strategy team based game.
For gods sake the original pitch for the game was basically "MOBA but FPS" which OW 1 accomplished really well, but in OW 2 they removed not only
basically any sense of strategy by getting rid of a tank and the mid-game breaks, but also got rid of any semblence of team play.
Right now every game is just everyone picking whatever they want and playing team deathmatch, making all the games feel samey and causing the game
as a whole to have a lot lower player retention.
Also as a result of blizzard removing all the strategy aspects from the game there is now absolutly no reason for people to communicate.
Nowadays when you play overwatch you wouldnt even notice if you were the only person in a lobby full of bots of appropriate skill level.
I used to be able to find friends in matches, now im glad when i hear a single person using voice chat in over 50 games if only to shout at me.
Push and Flashpoint are awesome and Push has two of my favorite maps in it. They are so open that it allows for so much more play with different characters compared to maps like circuit royale
I think push and flashpoint give a variety which is really nice, the games flow quickly and I think that’s a positive. Also push can end really quickly which is good. The amount of reverse sweeps you see on push maps because the losing team adapts is really good. Push is only so hated because there was a glitch that prioritised it over other game modes when it was introduced and colesseo and new queen street were the only maps just made it so oversaturated
I heckin love Flashpoint. Doomfist parkour for me
I think this idea about the lack of strategic downtime is excellent - I knew I didn't like these modes as much as the old ones, but I couldn't pinpoint exactly why
The biggest problem with push is that a team that is in control of the robot more than the enemy team can (and quite often) still loses the game. It's mathematically unfair.
People will call me stupid but as a casual, Two CP is my favorite mode (at least during Overwatch's early days). It really showcased each hero's strengths and weaknesses, as if they were designed around the mode. Attacking can feel impossible sometimes, but it's so satisfying when you finally get a powerful push going.
At this point I see 0 reason for it not to come back other than Bliz still being bashful about reverting mistakes they have made and typically doubling down on them. But then again, I really do think this dev team is a lot better than they used to be, so I could see it happening one day. Maybe people will start talking about it. Classic made me realize I missed it a lot.
If I'm remembering things correctly Assault was the first mode they made so it makes sense that the characters were built around that style of play. You gotta remember that DPS were also split into attack and defense back then.
Clash is 5cp from tf2 I'm going love it
It doesn't suffer exactly the same issues as push or flashpoint, but it's extremely way too fast paced, one lost fight and enemies are 20% done with the match, that's how fast this shit goes, at least in push or flashpoint you can catch up, in clash you either win the fight or lose the fight, you can't even catch up to stall for long
I thought I was crazy for despising Push and Flashpoint. I'm glad to hear someone else also agrees that they SUCK. I'm kind of biased because I miss everything about Overwatch 1, but in my honest opinion, Assault (2CP) was better than both these modes unless you were Top 500, where the snowballing and stalling was just unbearable. Every other rank was actually kind of ok, the only stinker was Volskaya (and obviously Paris and Horizon Lunar Colony but they were removed).
Also hot take, they should add a "Allow Legacy Maps?" option in settings for queuing in Quick Play. So those who want to play older maps or just want more maps to play on have a few extra options, would be cool to rarely and randomly get Hanamura in Quick Play because all 10 players have it on and the game chose it. 😂
No way. 2CP was horrible and push and flashpoint are awesome
I think Flashpoint could be awesome if it was altered a little bit to be more like Cashout from the finals. Imagine how crazy a 3v3v3v3 Overwatch map would be with maybe multiple cap points open at once. Also I think why 2cp was hated so much was really a side effect of 6v6, with only 1 tank now the point would be much harder to stall.
I'm pretty much of the complete opposite beliefs. I find push to be the most fun mode by far and I cannot stand hybrid at all. Payload isn't much better... I don't want to spend 20 min in a single match.
I kinda feel payload maps are the worst for me, idk. I’m fine with Rialto and Havana, but I just can’t stand Dorado and Gibraltar. The hybrid maps feel fine, idk
I honestly like all the game modes I feel like an alien because they allow comps other maps don’t
push and flashpoint are both fun
sociopath confirmed
I hate flashpoint. I wish I could turn it off.
2:51 is this the danganronpa music?
Yes
Honestly for Quick Play. And this is my opinion but they should give us an option or multiple choice on what game modes we WANT to Que for. And the least que of the games modes should be the ones reworked or taken out cause they can actually see the data of what’s working and what’s not instead of fucking it all up.
Push feels like such an awful mode because you need to win so many teamfights to get ANY progress on the maps. The checkpoint spots also suck, with some map checkpoints being easy to reach with just one team fight win at the start of the game.
I genuinely believe maps like New Queen Street have shortened my lifespan because of the sheer frustration they cause.
i remember liking 2cp but that could be nostalgia for old ow and tank synergies
i personally really like flashpoint idk if its cause i enjoyed 2 point maps in ow1 but flashpoint is easier for my brain to handle
Push is the "Snowball" gamemode, Flashpoint is the "god please let this end faster please I don't like this gamemode let me play on a good map PLEASE" gamemode
you've only now tried flashpoint?
redditors argued abt push being good, never felt being that smart in my life
push is better then flashpoint and 2cp but it still is just not fun to play a lot of the time
You give me double shield and goats vibes
Both of these modes are the only good content players got out of the year of downtime.
Not learning these modes is a skill issue, they're the most dynamic (interesting) maps available. No wonder the "run down main off cooldown" people hate them.
There may be an argument for the cons of push, but FP is the most sandbox mode there is while having a semi fair objective(blows control point out of the water). There are so many options that can change the outcome of the match. FP improves upon the core mathematical weakness of Control: first fight won snowballs the round. That alone justifies a lack of downtime. Maybe just send everyone back to spawn after point cap without a downtime? But you lose a lot of emergent gameplay that way too.
QoL fix Flashpoint. Push has a large LoS problem. These different map modes being in the same pool reward different heroes and playstyles from match to match. They also incentivize active team play (this is the controversial one and the reason all these people hate it but they never say out loud). As for the robot push....the playerbase doesn't understand how stacking payload works (it doesnt, unless you're playing ow1 pirate ship) to begin with. Why would the devs even engage with stacking mechanics when one person is most efficient anyways?
1 hero: 100% Payload MS
2 heroes: 115% MS
3: 130-133% MS
The diminished returns (after one pusher) means stacking more than 2 on payload loses map control. The Robot moves quickly with one. Full stop. As for the "bitch" position, a lot of people are ok with filling it because it is a necessary role and a consequence of any type of payload. Just like tank players that know they need to scout and create space, moments from death at any engagement with 2 or more enemies. There is a good chance the self-designated backline bot/PL sitter is having as much fun as a tank in any match. That "bitch" position (it's not a bitch position) is just as much a bitch position as tank is a bitch position. Both players have to wait, have limited options etc. but are filling these roles/sub-roles to win the game. Aren't you trying to win the game? How can one espouse Hybrid as a better game mode when Push does more to eliminate the designated pusher problem than Payload ever has? The robot literally moves faster (faster regrouping with scouting position teammates) and stacking 3 to payload griefs teamfights(teamfight is the most important aspect of the game working IN TANDEM with the Map mode Objective).
FP has a set point progression. Its not that hard to read a simple flowchart or surmise what happens next in-game. Maybe a map to give the player some control over the learning the points. Consider the consequences of capping and post-cap options rather than saying it feels bad in the moment. You have the time walking back from spawn or waiting reset to consider these problems/solutions. You can opt for mobility to dominate the sprawl of these maps.
Honestly I don’t mind Push and Flashpoint as game modes its just the maps that are a problem. The maps and their spawns make half the match walking back to the fight, I honestly never saw the big issue with 2cp temple of anubis and volskya were some of my fav maps. My favorite gamemode will forever be control tho it just feels the most fair. I hate starting as defense in any mode that has it because it feels like if offense side does well my team will just do bad when it flips as the moral just plummets. Whereas starting on offense just makes defending after seem more bearable in a okay this the set area they can’t reach which makes our goals more clear sorta way.
2 cap and hybrid ARE quickplay, I'm so tired of these new modes being forced into the playlist.
i really enjoy both!
Less round dependent and more non stop game modes are just better and a more pure representation of overwatch period. Getting to a central point in the map that moves dynamicaly or linearly both ways is cool plus it gives less breathing room for ppl to cheese out a w just by switching and its good for mobility heroes
Whoever is worse will win in this game mode pretty much
Uhh there is some truth in what you are saying, but it’s feels like a rather hot take to me.
While the side-switching screen is good for strategizing, it slows down the pace of the match significantly. It’s like, 30 seconds for hero selection and 30 for defenders to prepare? So a minute of downtime is kinda too much, and I feel that’s what they were trying to address. Plus overwatch is not so much about strategy and tactics anyway, it’s not VALORANT or CS. Sure you need to think about your picks and engagements, but the downtime on Flashpoint is more than enough to do just that. With push it kinda depends. Sometimes the game really doesn’t leave you too much time to think, but other times it’s enough time, just like on flash point.
The points on Flashpoint, while seem random initially, do have a certain pattern to them, I can tell that. And it seems to be balanced around the spawn rooms somehow, so most of the time we go to 5th point anyway. You have to be heavily steamrolled to end it in 3 points, really. What they could do, though, is to improve UX a little by having an icon of the next point showing up when the point is capped at 95%. If you can’t touch it you might as well go to the next one instead of sitting around extra 10 seconds.
Speaking of steamrolling, if you are on the receiving end, the matches feel less painful because they are so quick. And incredibly rewarding if you managed to turn it around in the last second and win after that. It’s feels like an emotional roller coaster, which is both great and dismoralling at the same time, but it is what it is, I guess?
I really enjoy Flashpoint tbh
it sure is fun walking 100M to your next point
What this game desperatly needs atleast in qp is map voting. Activision fixed this problem with call of duty black ops and modern warfare by having lobbies to vote which map you wanted to play... truth be told... alot of the ow2 maps just kinda suck and giving the players to vote for maps black ops style would fix alot of the issues tbh. Overwatch kinda needs a lobby system overall as it would also promote rematching if you stay in the lobby. For a "competitive game" as it totes to be its kinda weird you cant play against people again. Imagine street fighter with no rematches lmao. The salty runback/Deathmatching is getting removed from all facets of gaming THEY REMOVED IT FROM TEKKEN 8 LIKE WTF ARE WE DOING?!?!?!
i never liked flashpoint and this helped me fully understand why. do you think push could have multiple rounds? or as control does, combine multiple maps into one match since they are symmetrical and lack fight variety?
every new game mode they add is completely terrible. they should just stick with payload maps because its clearly the only game mode they’re good at.
Push makes no sense because if you pushed it the farthest you should win, it shouldn't matter if the other team still has the robot and barely made any progress honestly.
Push is fine it’s not bad, just sometimes the team that takes over the robot in the end is based on luck.
Flash point on the other hand I hate the mode genuinely its too long for ranked…
Agree. Downtime between rounds is super important. You can get full held on hybrid and then proceed to pull out some bunker comp to maximize your chances. But what the fuck do you do in push? If you swap you lose ult advantage. The playing field is not even. And also point having constant speed is just retarded.
Flashpoint is literally control for zoomers. Same problem with ult advantage and not being able to properly swap comps. Also rng is in effect there. So it's quite literally the worst game mode.
I think 2cp was the best mode, followed by hybrid. In 2cp you had so much downtime to properly think of a comp and game plan and communicate it with the team. 2cp games were close and competitive way more often than other game modes because you had more time to set up mentally and more time to plan. Plus more cheese was allowed, which is good imo.
This new clash gamemode is gonna suck big time if it's the same no downtime shit mode. From the 2 seconds of footage that I've seen of clash, isn't it just push + flashpoint combined? So like back and forth 5cp. How is it anything new and different?
shit take, 2cp was a draw 50% of the time
@@kingoftheducks5202 because of shit map design. Infinite stalling, awful single choke on first point. I don't deny that map design was atrocious at times, but the gamemode itself let you run like 5 different comps in one match. Also it wasn't draws 50% of the time, like maybe 10% at worst. It sure is still way more than any other gamemode, but still, the pros of 2cp outweigh sometimes drawing the game.
"2cp was the best mode" Is crazy LMAO
put down the rose tinted glasses my guy
@@garikek delusional
@@waferbarr it's not the rose tinted glasses. I was thinking that throughout the whole time I played ow1. Take into account I'm not gm. I was gold-diamond in ow1 and 2cp was actually enjoyable for me. Maybe it's my hero pool at the time: torb, Hanzo, bastion, zarya, sigma. But I really liked how the board was cleared every round and you had a challenge of coming up with both comp and plan to win the round. I liked the dynamic a lot. And it also was very different from everything else we had at the time. Both map design and layout, as well as the dynamic were different from escort/hybrid and koth. So it's natural that it will have its enjoyers.
At least they could've tried to fix the maps instead of just gutting the gamemode all together. Like chokes were awful, some megas were overpowered, obscure highgrounds for defenders team. Like we know the problems and devs heard them. But like with 6v6 they just decided to remove it and move on. If only they did that with brig...
and it wont get any better with that new gamemode clash either. i dont know if they want there to be less down time in games to appeal to tiktok zoomer brain or what but i dont like it either.
Here someone describe clash the game mode all the boomer tf2 people love described as for TikTok zoomers got a chuckle out of me. To be fair clash will play a lot more like push so it won't have between round downtime unless they go all out and make it best of two our something.
@@axelsaupe2751 all ow1 gamemodes have rounds and all ow2 gamemods dont have rounds. thats why i said it is for tiktok zoomer brains. its proab also cuz they dont want ppl to think too much about the game and how they play it.
I love push….but flash point is the worse thang about overwatch for me
Payload and Hybrid maps are my favorite, Assault had issues but was overall fun, KotH maps are mid, Push and Flashpoint maps feel soulless.
I like both the modes I think they are super fun as Tank
Make a video on Clash please 🙏🏼
Push is great, flashpoint is misguided.
Flashpoint to me is the best game mode in overwatch ever. However I do want them to add more benefits to the team that needs to be forward spawned. However push is just dog shit period. All the maps are miserable to play on and you make zero progress if the enemy team gets a good ass lead. It’s basically about who wins the most amount of team fights in a row rather than the fights that matter.
And which fights would that be? These comments sound awful lot like skill issue to me
@@AntivenomOW I just told you. Can you read ?
@@depthcharge5091 you didn’t? Can you write? And did you really have to edit a two short sentence comment?
Ow community never beating the “dumbass” allegations
@@depthcharge5091 yeah, you can’t beat them
the only good mode in the game is payload everything else is garbage
you are nitpicking and biased, I win
Bring back 2cp
nah control is the worst gamemode by far at least push and flashpoint is one cohesive game and not getting chumped up into two or three short ones which is nothing but annoying.
wrong
@@avez Nope.
Nothing but annoying when you loose your ult charge midgame and enemies are allowed to regroup and counterpick without con of loosing time doing so.
Very repetitive locations each fight takes place in unlike the other three gamemode in which you are encouraged to move throughout the map. feels like 50% of the map isn't used at all.
Dumb scoring system where one team just because they captured first theoretically can go from score 1-99 whilst other team has more people on point all because of stalling.
It makes no sense from a story perspective. Why would holding a point like that matter at all? Payload at least makes sense one team trying to bring a firetruck, gate breacher, explosives or VIP whilst other team is trying to stop them.
fuck the way spawn points work on (certain) hybrid maps, and past that some of the hybrid maps are easily the worst in the game