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SetoMarie
United States
เข้าร่วมเมื่อ 16 ธ.ค. 2019
I got a comment the other day that said "I could do without the sarcasm." He was clearly in the wrong place
Email grandmasteringold@gmail.com for business inquiries.
Email grandmasteringold@gmail.com for business inquiries.
What Marvel Rivals and Overwatch Can Learn From Each Other
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This is a really pivotal moment both for Marvel Rivals and for Overwatch. Rivals is clearly dominating right now, and Overwatch is very torn between it's past mistakes and present opportunities, which is only made harder by the division within it's community. The directions these games both take right now will structure the future of this genre as well as the battle for the hero shooter community.
While things like the second half of Marvel Rival's Season 1 as well as Overwatch's mysterious Overwatch Spotlight both dominate the stage right now, I want to focus as well on many aspects of these games that could easily benefit either game to a suprisingly effective level. I genuinly think if either game took some or even all of what I laid out here to heart and implemented these changes into their game, it would drastically pull me toward said game over the other. But as things stand, both games have a lot they could improve, and while I am having a ton of fun with both, these changes would make the experience so much better.
We will see where Overwatch goes with 6v6, 5v5, and even Role Que, as well as how Marvel Rivals treats their Open Que and Hero Ban systems, and speaking of heros, it will be interesting to see who focuses their efforts and exciting, fun, and well designed new heros and new maps, but for now, here are some things that could improve both games. Hope you enjoy.
Please do subscribe and like and do anything you can to help the channel. All of it goes to reuinitng our family. I'll be sure to give Oink all of my love and head pets once we are together again. Thank you so much, friends.
#marvelrivals #overwatch #videoessay #analysis #scoreboard #guide #news #patch #update #6v6 #5v5 #rant #designphilosophy #gaming #playeragency #roleq #roleque #openque #openq #funny #blizzardentertainment #nerf #rework #season14 #mothmeta #tierlist #politics #netease #setomarry #setomarie #setomary #bunny #t500 #top500 #proplayer #future #controversy #politics #new #marvel #rivals #clasic #moth #mothmeta #midseason #drama #flats #jay3 #ow2 #overwatch2 #ow #humantorch #thething #season1 #season2 #rant #angry #funny #meme #spotlight #pvp #dracula #update #character #release #releasedate #characters #character #new #newhero #announcements #announcment #hot #vs #trending #paladins #hirezstudios #future
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This is a really pivotal moment both for Marvel Rivals and for Overwatch. Rivals is clearly dominating right now, and Overwatch is very torn between it's past mistakes and present opportunities, which is only made harder by the division within it's community. The directions these games both take right now will structure the future of this genre as well as the battle for the hero shooter community.
While things like the second half of Marvel Rival's Season 1 as well as Overwatch's mysterious Overwatch Spotlight both dominate the stage right now, I want to focus as well on many aspects of these games that could easily benefit either game to a suprisingly effective level. I genuinly think if either game took some or even all of what I laid out here to heart and implemented these changes into their game, it would drastically pull me toward said game over the other. But as things stand, both games have a lot they could improve, and while I am having a ton of fun with both, these changes would make the experience so much better.
We will see where Overwatch goes with 6v6, 5v5, and even Role Que, as well as how Marvel Rivals treats their Open Que and Hero Ban systems, and speaking of heros, it will be interesting to see who focuses their efforts and exciting, fun, and well designed new heros and new maps, but for now, here are some things that could improve both games. Hope you enjoy.
Please do subscribe and like and do anything you can to help the channel. All of it goes to reuinitng our family. I'll be sure to give Oink all of my love and head pets once we are together again. Thank you so much, friends.
#marvelrivals #overwatch #videoessay #analysis #scoreboard #guide #news #patch #update #6v6 #5v5 #rant #designphilosophy #gaming #playeragency #roleq #roleque #openque #openq #funny #blizzardentertainment #nerf #rework #season14 #mothmeta #tierlist #politics #netease #setomarry #setomarie #setomary #bunny #t500 #top500 #proplayer #future #controversy #politics #new #marvel #rivals #clasic #moth #mothmeta #midseason #drama #flats #jay3 #ow2 #overwatch2 #ow #humantorch #thething #season1 #season2 #rant #angry #funny #meme #spotlight #pvp #dracula #update #character #release #releasedate #characters #character #new #newhero #announcements #announcment #hot #vs #trending #paladins #hirezstudios #future
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Why the Marvel Rivals Scoreboard is Meaningless
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How else can I flame chat as Rocket with my 30k heals?
Marvel Rivals needs to learn ABSOLUTELY NOTHING from Overwatch. Unless you’re a sweaty tryhard, Rivals is perfection; and if you are a sweaty tryhard, just go play Overwatch, which y’all already turned into a sweaty tryhard game.
I usually only care about W/L ratio but so many times, I would join in the final 10 seconds of a quick match and lose.
Backfilling just to have a "Defeat" screen before you can leave spawn or even spawn in at all is such a tragedy
i think team-ups would be way better of a feature if it had way more options. if every character can have a team-up with a third of the characters, that would just give way more variety and options for unique teams
I think you are actually on the money with this. If characters had a lot more teamups, it would be less the game saying "play this character with this one" and more like creatively piecing together YOUR specific team. Having just a few feels too simple and forced (again, don't hate it). It's almost the exact reason I like, like, Thor for example, because he is a part of 2 different teamup interactions. I think if there was even more, it would be great! Good, good take
Hanzo can also 1 shot.
This shouldn't be called, "Why the Marvel Rivals Scoreboard is Meaningless". This should be called, "Why Video Game Scoreboards are Meaningless".
Great video, although, I can debate 4:11 with flying heroes like phara
Yes, you can do those things mentioned in the video to increase your numbers, if that's all you care about. But that's not how you play the game. And I think most people know that.
ahahahahhahaha people still play overwtach
The mvp system in rivals just tracks who healbotted/tickled tanks the most. Final blows solo kill, death counts are all seemingly out of the calculation. While in overwatch at least you see a play that actually made an impact in a fight like at least 60% of the time
Deaths are 100% a part of the calculation. I watched on the score board as I became my team's Ace when a psylocke died while I was coming back from spawn. I haven't seen anything specific to final blows, but I suspect they're calculated too. Obviously how heavy they're ranked is up for debate, but they are considered.
As a mercy main I always take it upon myself to parkour up to wherever widow is and surprise jump her.
I never played overwatch but i feel the position take is a lot like if you play Jett, Chamber, from Valorant where especially before the nerfs to these agents you could just swing any angle and as long as you weren't instantly killing you could basically get for free via (Jett dash or Chamber tp).This taught people when the could play jett or chamber only the most basic of position.
I think you are right on the money. I myself don't know tons about Valorant, ive played an ok amount, but it sounds like you've found the exact parallel in Val. Sure, these characters have to position to some degree, but its just not in the same league as the amount of thought positioning takes with characters who actually have to think about it in such depth. Really cool parallel =)
You think a lustful thumbnail would make me click and sit listen 24 minutes rant about Widow? You sure were right.
Thanks for sticking around for the rant <3
@ Holy crap, I did not expect a fast reply :D <3
I try to reply when I actually have something to say =) I used to reply a lot more, but then I realized a lot of people just want to start fights on here and don't really care what I actually say. But your comment gave me a laugh ^^
@ That's OW community for ya. Sadly. You'll be on death row just by stating an opinion. LOL. Say Kiriko/widow needs nerf/adjustment and watch your phone vibrate. But I'm happy I made you laugh :P.
skill issue
Most of the points you make in the first part of the video also applies to sniper in tf2, except in tf2 sniper is less mobile which is the main problem with widow in my opinion
5:12 maybe like bomerang fu where it give titles to players based on how they played
That would be really, really cool. Awesome idea. If they got more creative than just "highest damage," I think this could really be a great addition. Maybe titles for having the most teammates saved, the most objective time, the most final blows, ya I 100% think endgame titles would be awesome
Never played ow, tried to after rivals feels like garbage went back
Rivals performance on pc is horrible
The fact that fps affects things like attack speed or dash distance still boggles my mind
The big problem with team-ups in Marvel Rivals is that it creates expectations and balance problems that just... aren't necessary IMO. Of course, not all team-ups are created equal in this respect, some of the team ups are actually incredible design, while others are just... not. Take Rocket and Bucky/Punisher's team-up. It's a flat statistical buff from Rocket to Bucky/Punisher, so that's a point loss right out of the gate, but it's also such a significant buff that the community assumption about Rocket Raccoon has become "the team-up bot for Bucky and Punisher". If you don't have Bucky or Punisher then your team doesn't want a Rocket, and that sucks, but because the team-up is so powerful they can't realistically buff rocket to make him feel better. IMO the best team-up in the game is Hulk/Wolverine, hands down, because it's everything that Rocket/Bucky/Punisher isn't. There is no stat buff here, it's a pure playmaking tool that must be agreed upon by both parties involved. Both players have a hand in the outcome and quite frankly it's just a ton of fun for both players, but nobody is saying "We don't have a Hulk, why are you on Wolverine?.". Neither character depends on the team-up to be effective.
I think you're right on the money with this take. The design for some of the teamups really DOES feel like a "team up" by definition, while others just feel like buffs. Also "If you don't have Bucky or Punisher then your team doesn't want a Rocket" is precisely part of the unhealthy aspect to teamups that I dislike. These characters all have applications outside of their teamups, but people will become married to the idea they only belong there when they have their partners
14:11 My vid Proves this completely true Played Hanza the entire game, At one point I threw up random alt at the cart while fighting an Anna and got potg did nothing else the entire game we lost.😂
At least you admit it! I cannot even count the number of games where I had someone feel validated for feeding just cuz they got potg
Man cry for 23 minutes straight because he was bullied by sweaty sniper gameplay lovers
the ban list is more for varying the end game experience then for pure balance reasons. it also makes more sense when you think about true competitive ((tourneys and the like)) and introducing bans into the culture makes it easier to transition to a tourney scene
Oh I understand this completely. I do enjoy the personal aspect to it where if I don't like a character, I can remove said character from the match entirely, but I am just saying I personally value player's ability to choose their hero over other players ability to un-choose said hero. It's really not a big deal either way though, just my minor hot-take. I do think bans add a lot of depth to teamups at the very least, part of why I almost never get to play hulk, as his teamup is bonkers so he eats a ban every game. I WOULD really appreciate maybe an overhaul to how bans work at least. Having 5 of my teammates vote for Luna just for the last guy to vote Magnito and have Magnito be the actual ban feels a bit wild
@@setomarie if youve played omega strikers, they have a system that accounts for simultaneous bans, which low key feels a lot better. its a blind draw, and its only one ban per team, so you still allow flexibility, while heading off particular choies. ALTHOUGH in that game, there are also modifiers at the start of every match, so you KNOW someone is going to be OP ahead of time.
I have over 10 hours in Rivals, and I still prefer Overwatch (to the point where I uninstalled MR, but because I was running out of space and couldn't have both at the same time). While some issues are purely my own taste, with me disliking the 3rd person perspective, others are entirely objective: my low-end-ish PC can run OW at 60 fps consistently at a high quality, and it also struggles to reach 30 fps with the lowest settings in Rivals. MR also feels like a team-based game that hates team: the disproportionate amount of DPS compared to tanks and supports indirectly makes players go "nah, imma do my own thing," and run off without working together. Most of the hours I have in Rivals I had to play support in order to babysit 5 mediocre DPS players, and it wasn't fun. Another issue is that I feel that none of the tanks, my preferred role, in Rivals feel half as fun as the ones in OW: Hammond is geniunely one of the best designed characters in an FPS (in the sense that he's so fun to play as), and Rivals' closest aproximation to him, Venom, feels really clunky in comparison.
I like peni but I know what your saying. I think it’s hard to actually play as a team
That's 100% the reason I'm deeply concerned about Rivals' announcement that they're going to just be cranking out characters at a blistering pace. Original Overwatch took a long time to release heroes, but every time they released a new hero it was something *completely unlike anything else we had in the game already*. It wasn't until Overwatch 2 that we started getting a lot more "generic" (for lack of a better term) characters, as well as the team stripping away a lot of the gimmicks of existing characters to make them fit into a more standard mold. (Bastion going from the turret guy into "Soldier 76 but fat and with cooldowns", and Sombra becoming more of a traditional assassin.). I guess the best way to put it is the gimmicks got less gimmicky and I think that's a shame, because they had some really creative ideas that became staples of the genre.
I'm really hoping the optimization stuff comes with time. It's integral to every facet of playing the game, so it should be a major priority. It is weird that they chose to go with more DPS given that was kind of a MISTAKE of Overwatch's back in the day, but maybe its just they feel most of their characters fit this design better? No idea Also, being a dive-tank connoisseur, I think I'm going to address something akin to what you mentioned about venom vs Hammond in a future video. "Clunky" is right on the money, to say the least.
I think that’s a you problem tbh. If you’re struggling to get 30 frames then it’s simply a hardware issue. It’s an UNREAL ENGINE 5 game. If you don’t have the necessary components to run the game I wouldn’t be eager to play it either
I don’t see the issue. In a game that’s chaotic by nature with shield and large health pools, aim and positioning being rewarded isn’t a bad thing to me. Sure it get annoying in the higher ranks but she’s a sniper 🤷🏾♂️
I do not agree with your arguments. Mainly because most of them are kinda bad. However, I do agree that Widowmaker is a little broken(In the right hands.), and does need a rework. Asking 10 players is a little cheap. If it were 90 out of 100 or 9000 out of 10000 players, then that's more of a convincing argument, but saying that 90% of players dislike Widowmaker when you've only asked 10 players is just straight up a null-and-void argument. That's just one, and probably the weakest, of the arguments that I find a little too weak in this video.
I wish Blizzard would bring back the notifications when you got fire, it made doing things much more satisfying and makes the fire system more clear.
Did they remove this? To be honest I may just check it so often I didn't notice the notificiation itself was gone. I guess I can check it later. It MAY have been because of what I talked about in my 2nd fire meter video where I complained that hearing it go off so often was annoying, but if they way they fixed that was they turned off the notification rather than adjusting how often you get on fire... wow
@@setomarie My bad, I wasn't very specific. I meant the little number that used to pop up next to the action that got you fire and showed how much fire you got for each thing you did.
@@CanofSprats Ahhh yes. Oh i agree completely, this was a very nice and open way for them to show how the system worked. Its almost like they were embarrassed by the fire system, which makes me really sad because whoever designed it did a fantastic job
Ow devs should bring the end cards back with mvp so they wouldnt need to change anything about the potg system
I still cannot concieve why things people liked, like cards, were removed. I cannot remember anyone ever complaining about them once. Even in my video where I said they weren't super accurate to use as a metric of contribution, I still mentioned they were nice to thank your teammates. Bizzare thing to take out
From what i remember they said they removed it cause at the end of ow1 people didn't vote or used it(maybe bc ow1 had no content and died slowly and there were barely players so maybe that's why )
@@TheFBG123-r6d Wild. I still remember how jarring it was when OW2 first started coming out (It must have been the 1st open beta) and the end of games was so quick, no time for talking to anyone, nice or mean.
Overwatch is so easy to look at due to the stylized approach making it feel so much less... cumbersome. I dunno. Former Overwatch player who quit bc I hit GM1 and got bored of the grind bc I hit my goal. A bit biased but. Idk. Havent played it in ages.
"stylized approach making it feel so much less... cumbersome" can you elaborate on this phrase more, I am curious what you mean. But ya I agree 100% that its gotten a bit too easy. WIth there being 5 different t500 leaderboards because of roleq (including openq and combined) I can genuinly just waltz onto any of them at this point, which is even more surprising for like damage because I cant aim
@setomarie I really wish I had a better word for it. Maybe its just adjustment and skill issue since I havent played a shooter since last summer, but Marvel Rivals feels so much. Harder to see? It may not be objectively true, but the colors all feel much more muted and the maps have so much more detail beyond necessity branching into a more... cumbersome? amount of detail? I cant help but look at stuff I dont want to. Could be I didnt take my adderall any time I played but I was unmedicated until recently. Maybe that I'm just not used to the maps, heros, abilities, etc. But I felt like OW was so easy to quickly grasp and see whats happening even if it got insanely screen cluttered.
@@HarmonyThing Ahhh understood. Thank you for the clarification! Are you a fellow ADHDer? (I have no idea what to call us) Ya that actually makes a lot of sense. Maybe it will come with familiarity like you mentioned. To me I really feel that when I am targetting someone. I swear half the cast has the exact same body type. Maybe that's why I feel like diving is harder at times with dive tanks?
I don't think people are even ready yet to heave a proper conversation about the game being balanced around what is fun to play and play against. Yes this video is about widow and a need for her to have a new kit but she's not the only one. The game needs to feel fun if we want any of the newer players to stay around and the game to hold any relevance at all. Additionally it has to be balanced around fun for the majority of player so if people in gold and below get annoyed by junk rat being able to safely spam without being punished and then get told "ehhh... just get good!" isn't the answer. How does an average player push a hanzo, junk rat and orisa spam comp on first point Eichenwalde. Answer: They get pissed off, lose and go play rivals. yeah one shots are unfun and should go but we can't end the conversation there. It feels bad to be killed when you can't see your enemy because they are spamming rockets or arrows or grenades or stickies from a corner miles away and that isn't the only other concept people don't like. The thing is people aren't ready to have these conversations so nothing will happen.
Most of the time you can SEE the players costing your team value, like a Peni who doesnt understand webs and nest, or that one Iron Fist tgat continues to pick 3v1s
I’ve gotten called out for deaths but people forget strategists are basically target #1
I don’t fully agree with a lot of the points in the video, but more in the sense that some aspects of the scoreboard do provide useful information rather than being entirely unreliable. I also think you downplayed how significant misreading the scoreboard can be. If the differences in stats (like damage) are minor and you don’t take roles or characters into account, then yeah, it's pretty useless-especially at higher levels. But if there’s a massive gap in stats across all categories, or someone is significantly behind, it still gives a fairly clear picture of performance. Final blows, in my opinion, are more valuable than you suggest. While it’s true that, when stats are close, they might not mean much, in most cases a high number of final blows indicates that the player either secured the kills mostly on their own or finished enemies who would have otherwise survived(like atleast in my exp, kill stealing is not a majority of final blows regardless of what or how you play). This generally gives a good idea of their impact. When combined with high damage, it’s likely that the player performed well. And I’ve never had another experience where farming final blows was realistically possible against good opponents unless someone was intentionally throwing. Extremely high damage-like double everyone else’s-can also be a positive sign, even with fewer kills, since it shows how much pressure they put on the enemy team. But again, it’s just an indication. It’s true that most people misuse scoreboard stats by treating them as absolutes, but that doesn’t mean they’re completely useless. Instead, they give you about half the picture on their own, which obviously isn’t enough to fully evaluate performance, but they can still be a good indicator in about 60-70% of cases-especially when there are major outliers.
I'm a simple man, I see someone with based opinions on McCree and I like and sub.
Glad to have you aboard
It can be better to die as raccoon on some maps because it resets brb and he can travel back to point so fast plus throw brb far through the air. Best map is probably that one where you have to cap the point first to escort the sludge. If on defense dying there after a brb resurrects can get another brb near point every 10-15 sec instead of 45 sec. Another spot is that map with defensive choke at start then guide through city (not midtown). The 2nd point under bridge can be a good place to die to get more brbs right near fight. It's often better in these places to have tanky people on point constantly or a dps in the fight than the missed 10 sec of healing.
This is exactly the kind of in-depth thinking that both wins games and gets punished by the scoreboard. (also the kind of big brain-tech im stealing, ty friend)
@setomarie yeah, not only that, but if you are going to try to do this on these maps it allows you to be more aggressive when you decide it's time to suicide. So don't just go kill yourself but try to really get into the fight at that point and shoot down an enemy from close range (he does good damage when in harms way). Maybe not only you get the no consequence suicide but you might also be able tp get a kill too.
I don't know why games stopped giving objective scores where you'd get objective score by either standing on point or killing someone else on point. This score was very helpful as bitch that went 12 and 1 would have like 100 objective score proving that he deliberately ignored objective to up his kd.
The biggest problem with Rivals (and others like Overwatch) is that the tutorial mode doesn't cover 80% of what you need to know to improve. Concepts like making space, high ground vs low ground, areas of interest, main vs off-tanks, how to distribute your healing, when to commit to a push, etc. are never demonstrated or taught to the player even in quick play, so everyone has to go trial-by-fire in ranked. When you're losing a game, the scoreboard is the only thing you have to follow, and most often it encourages losing teams to start pointing fingers at each other. Also, there are few cases where the scoreboard is useful. (The Ace marker + Deaths are the most important), as they can help you decide who to pressure, but it's usually distracting at ranks beyond silver.
Ppl swear they need to be at full health to function. Then there's those captain america mains who dive the back line with 300 hp left. Love those guys. Ud be surprised at how many kills I get while almost dying instead of running away and begging for heals
What I've learned is that regardless of what you do, Jeff will always be MVP instead of you. 😄
"Need healing" theres a magic and a spiderman behind us bud how bout we need some protection
Pretty good points, but I think the better framing of the scoreboard is how to discern meaning from it. Because there is plenty of useful info to get from it. And the use of it comes from what heroes peole are playing and knowing what is happening during your matches to correlate with the scoreboard's data. So good points with pointing out where people get things wrong and what the misconceptions are, but would be cool if you madea vid showing how to learn from the scoreboard effectively
I'd argue pvz gw2 scoreboard is pretty good, It places whoever did the best at the very top of the scoreboard It shows a very accurate measurement of how many kills someone got Their vanquishing system works on both normal and shared vanquished but shared vanquishes only count when the person did the MOST amount of damage to a player Thus still getting a kill credit because you put in the work It shows the exact amount of healing and how many assists you got which is granted to whoever did the least amount of damage to a target It's honestly so perfect It even shows k/d ratio pretty accurately and it'll show how long your kill streak lasted before you died Truly shows who did the best on their team
Deaths are meaningless as if u have someone that dies like 20 times then he is always puttin ur team at 5v6 instead of a full 6v6 so deaths do matter especially when u have a lot of them...and yo go further into wat u said yes there all times u need to sacrifice urself to help the team which makes it even more important that you aren't dying outside thoes situations
THANK YOU. Making a video might help bring more attention to her God awful design. I’ve never been more unhappy then when I see a widow in my game, instant fun killer
Just trying to spread the word <3
when you say no hero limits, do you mean 6 bastions on a team? I don’t want that whatsoever 💔
yeah this is a problem with TF2's design as well for sure. However there are gives and takes where Overwatch is worse and TF2 is better, and TF2 is better and Overwatch is worse, etc. On one hand, Widowmaker has tracer rounds and there are player placed barriers in the game. In TF2, that is not the case. Most of Sniper's rifles do not produce tracer rounds at all, and there is not class in TF2 that has a barrier of physical wall of any sort. On the other hand, Sniper has ZERO mobility tools to his name, meaning that if he's caught out of position, and is unable to land the quick scope (if he even notices the person punishing him), he dies. Meanwhile Widow has a grapple, meaning that she's fairly easily able to get out of sticky situations should the need arise. They are BOTH a problem, don't get me wrong, but TF2's sniper and Widowmaker are equally problems in different ways. I haven't done much research into how Black Widow is in Marvel Rivals, but I've heard that people actually enjoy how Netease designed her, and from the looks of how the game is shaping up she is not very oppressive (Hawkeye is the more oppressive sniper than she is from what I can tell, my computer can't run the game so I don't know for sure lol). Perhaps there is some merit into looking into how Black Widow was designed going foward.
Deaths is way more important than you let on. It shows who made more mistakes in the match. Let's say you are a Moon Knight but you die due to poor positioning, that is a mistake on your end, you understand? Essentially, some of these stats are more important than you let them on to be.
Why does nobody play open que if it’s so good.
23:05
I was wondering why it was impossible to get assists as a character that focuses on damage in this game. What weird ass choices they picked for match stats and how they work in this game.
1 min 3 max of 6v6 I'll admit on paper would be the best, but in my experience of 20-ish games, every single match I had was absolutely terrible and highly unbalanced, doesn't help that most of the matches were just spam comps or people who were literally the most [REDACTED] people on planet earth. if they put some slight balance adjustments for every role so that way there'd be slight buffs or nerfs dependent on if there's 1 or 3 respectively of a role. I feel like that'd be the greatest. But in my opinion 2-2-2 6v6 is the most fun that I've ever really had in overwatch in general. and I've been playing since 2017.
so my 2-17 punisher with 40,000 damage is actually carrying im just a fool