How Clutches Work and Why Multi-Plate Clutches are Better
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ก.ค. 2020
- In this episode of What the Fast we take a look at clutches, and what a twin-plate or triple plate clutch is and how they work. How they work in detail from materials, types to how that effects how they drive in what driving situations.
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#clutch #howclutcheswork #twinplateclutch #tripleplateclutch - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
Motive Video truely is one of the best Automotive channels on TH-cam, worldwide 🙌🏼
"Don't go to a Facebook group and ask what's the best clutch for my car." But...if I hadn't done that, you never would have sent me to this video. Thank you for that btw. Very informative.
12:42 lightened flywheels are excellent on the street if you love banging through gears.
Your car slows down twice as quickly when backing off, if you do any partial throttle straight to max throttle the difference is utterly amazing.
So every T junction, roundabout, hairpin entry/exit benefits. That feeling us manual drivers enjoy literally intensifies 10 fold.
But if you just chose at the speed limit everywhere and don't enjoy having to hold a preside throttle input to stay at 1 speed its not for you.
I found with both my supras the problem wasn't so much that and only made life difficult for drifting.. with less rotational mass it was harder to get that initial torque back to the wheels. In my first one I went from a Osgiken twin plate to a Dcs dingle. I used the factory flywheel for a while when I put the single in but then went a lightweight flywheel and that made a huge difference to response but was harder to drift. My current supra has a ACE twin plate and ATI balancer so it revs awesome so it's more suitable for my circuit racing goal. Both twin plates were way better to drive than the single because of the lighter pressure plate
Just FYI, pull type clutch have higher clamping load at the same pedal force due to the way the diaphragm spring fixed in the pressure plate. Thats why a NA impreza has a push type clutch, where the turbo ones have pull type. Anyway, great video, thanks
Best explanation on how clutch system works that I have come across.
Super informative! Love these info session videos Andrew! Keep it up!
That 40 minutes flew well done
Andrew keeps delivering... well done !
Quinquennial qt qqqqqqq qqqqqqqqqqqq
Man this channel is really underrated
Great video and explanation thanks Andrew!
Such an amazing video! Thanks so much for putting this together and sharing your knowledge, mate.
Nice insight Andrew, i made the mistakefor my street car 3-4 years back when i put a steel lightweight flywheel in my car when my engine got swapped,Result it's to light.Engine stalls when shifting down to standstill, and the shift from 1st to 2nd is rough and i almost have to slam it in if i want to shift competitive,so i need that dual mass flywheel back, not fun on a vag haldex 4wd car, best pull the entire engine back out and change the flywheel that way.If i saw this video back then it would have saved me alot hassel.Great video.👍
Very informative! Thank you
Legend and! I swear u are a great teacher! I love these informative videos.. better yet i love u mate!
Fantastic episode as always mate! 😃👍 This should really help as I need to upgrade my R33 GTST clutch & been wondering between a single & a twin. It's a enthusiastic daily driver with a lightweight flywheel, currently standard internals & going to be running a Holset HX35?!
Thanks for all the great content & looking forward to more... Maybe an episode on LSDs, the different types and the pros & cons of each? 🤔 Cheers, Si.
So informative, thanks Andrew!
Great as always
TH-cam need to put u on recommendations instead of all the bullshit I see daily. You deserve way more with the effort u put in to these vids love the channel mate oh I have a semi auto audi rs3 dont like manual anymore the dsg is too good ;)
Genius. Love it✌️
If only school was this informative!
Great video
Great info! 👍🤙
Great Video.
good episode Andrew. Im highly considering going nismo coppermix twin plate in my R33 GTSt. Purely because, as even you said, theyre extremely friendly. The car doesnt have that much power (400-450) and driven on the road, sometimes spiritedly. I think im making the right choice, shame they are so expensive. Currently i have an excedy segmented puck clutch that came with the car and whilst it isnt difficult to drive it is obscenely heavy for no logical reason.
Edit: found out i actually have some custom made clutch with a shortened pin and spaztic clamp pressure. I probably have a master/slave mismatch. cbf to fix, rather nismo quality lol
Great stuff
Great video. One thing you forgot to mention about going to a larger diameter clutch is the inertia of the clutch discs (not the flywheel) and how that affect shifting performance. Many clutch manufacturers use smaller clutch diameters (e.g. 200mm) because the inertia is lower which reduces the braking-load required by the synchro's to shift gears. This is why carbon clutches for street cars are so good, they shift fast because the clutch plates have such low inertia.
Also a sprung centre clutch doesn't change how the clutch engages or leaves from a standing start, it's just there for harmonics and vibration and to remove shock loading. Like you said - once the springs are compressed, it's like a solid centre clutch anyway. Clamping force, friction material used and weight of the crank+flywheel combo will determine how nice it is to drive.
Often twin plate or triple plate clutches will have less clamping force than a single plate for this reason. It makes the pressure plate actuation better as well as the pivot points can be optimised for the required clamping force.
Maybe you should do your own video 😁😁
We did ours based on our experience and consulting with DCS. The great thing is there is so many combos and materials there is no 100% right or wrong. We wanted to get out the base fundamentals, of the advanced stuff
more videos like this please :)
THANK YOU
amazing :)
Thanks 🙏
I have a street/circut supra with a ACE twin plate and I get no chatter(t56 Magnum) . My previous supra had a Osgiken twin plate (and dcs single with stock flywheel and then lightened) and had heaps of chatter with the twin. I wouldn't quite say twin plates are bad for the street depending on application and the clutch setup. Mine has a a full face sprung and sprung 5 puck rated to 750hp. It's not hard to drive, just grabby and my 60 year old mother can drive it. New clutches are much better these days.
Another thing that is often overlooked is with a single plate you don't want to put more than 20% clamping force over the standard clutch pressure plate because it puts lots of force on the thrust bearings on your crank. This is a common issue with 2jz's and guys binning their engines especially on a cold start. A twin plate overcomes this issue and also gives a lighter pedal feel.
i have found nice having a 10 inch heavy duty clutch with a heavy duty in my land cruiser, especially with 35in tyres
Hey Andrew @motive video do you still run your clutch booster on your gtr ?
So does the 9 inch clutch you're going to fit in okay on a standard 26 block/gearbox or does it require modding to fit?
Been running a HKS twin plate for over 35,000ks now rated at 650hp and can’t fault it, casual drag and track racing and has not let me down yet. Since clutch fitted car was 450fwhp and now 650fwhp. Don’t skimp on on your clutch setup!
Really nice video :)
But big differents on cars weight of flywheel.
My old honda flywheel weight 4,8kg from factory, my project car nissan s13 weight 12,8kg.. so lightweight goes in for that one :)
You should do how transbrakes work
Very thorough. A question though Andrew, I’m wondering if your mechanical knowledge is built over time via trial and error + experts advice or are you a qualified mechanic/technician of some sort?
All of the above
Studies engineering so understand the concepts of how things work.
Been modifying cars since 1999
And we spend lots of time with the best cars, workshops and companies all around The world and I love to sponge information from other experts
Bearing carrier thickness on GTR with multi plate disc clutch.... never ending story. Just a few mm difference can ruin your clutch feel, and usually what clutch manufacturers recommend is totally wrong, so clutch feels very on-off instead of gradual
You'll also find a lot of race clutches don't use a flywheel either. The clutch bolts directly to the crank and uses a flex plate purely to start the car. V8Utes did this and ive seen it else where as well. Not a great idea for a stock engines because they are externally balanced unlike a race engine
@Motive Video love love this video. Awesome content Andrew. I always hear about how driveable the Nismo Twin-plate Coppermix is, I honestly don't have that experience, and after watching this video, I'm thinking that must be due to another component in the clutch chain. Maybe the flywheel is too light. I feel like the friction point is way to small (grabby) and also too high in the pedal travel. I don't know what's in it, I bought it already in the car. Took me ages to get used to it, and even now, I can't take off normally on the streets without thinking about what I'm doing like any other manual I've owned in the past.
A larger diameter slave cylinder will make the engagement point wider. On the 86 I changed to a smaller diameter slave cylinder and it made the engagement point narrower. Regarding the high engagement point on the pedal, does your car have an adjustable pedal? The 2 Nissan's I have owned had adjustable pedals. The 86 had it too. I like the point to be as low on the pedal as possible (without causing problems of course).
Thats why they got the s15 with a dual mass . Unless your smashing the gears . Keep a heavier flywheel
Ok... so i need some help... ive buildt my bmw e61 530d to manual. I got around 300 to 350hp and 800nm. I got a 6puck unsprung sinter disk. When i take of from stand still it feels like im driving with a broken diff.. untill i get to speed.. then its fine.. but when im slipping the cluch its fucking horrible to drive.. HELP ME..... it has a original dual mass flywheel.. is the flywheel gone?
could been a 2-4 parter for max clicks :p
what about a torque converter
0:38 I prefer driving manual without the clutch
just watch out for Crankwalk
That was a pretty long advert for direct clutch
Comments like that can't be argued with because you think everything is an ad but anyways. Direct didnt pay for the feature but did provide us with the clutches to use ( which were sending back) and we use them in our project cars so we have most experience with then personally. Would you rather we just randomly spent $10,000 on buying different clutches so it didn't look like an ad for you?
I still watched the whole video. It was a great video and very informative. with no adblock also.
Cheers. We understand people get sceptical of youtubers being biased because of sponsors etc.we have sponsors but we only use products that work to keep our credibility and we prove they work with our cars. Without sponsors we couldn't afford to build the cars we have as our numbers simply aren't high enough yet.
If companies are willing to help out growing channels for free they deserve all the free advertising they get really.
Andrew,Todd has had his cake and eaten it on many occasions in the past
yo whats up with your left arm doing the chicken wing the whole time? u ok there mate?
Oof just bought a ATS carbonetic twin plate.
The algorithm is watching me
ATS carbon clutches are fine, im making over 800whp and i have yet to experience any slip while cold
A modern F1 clutch is only 3.8 inches in diameter and they weigh about a kg, when is that technology going to trickle down into the aftermarket lol
It won't for the reasons we've said. But the BMW M3 with the electronic controlled clutch had quite a small one as well. Small clutches found their way into dual clutch transmissions too
@@MotiveVideo I know I know, it was a joke and more a thing of what you think is cool and what actually is cool.
Exactly 👍
DSG or DCT transmission are pretty close to F1 clutch setups aren't they
@@NickTaylorRickPowers
They are completely different man.
So I cant watch this channel because I've not gotten the opportunity to learn to drive stick?
Big difference between never having had the opportunity vs had the opportunity and not taken it
If you had one chance,
One opportunity.
In every country you can buy a $500 manual car, best experience you can buy.
Take 3 mates out every weeknight and you'll all have memories for life
I missed the part where Andrew said if you haven't driven "stick", you're not allowed to watch his channel. Please time-stamp it for me?
@@URHYNS he said basically if you don't drive stick I don't know why your watching this in the first minute or 2.
FIRST I JUST GOT AN R32 AYE
Ayee welcome to the skyline club
liked previous intro song better :/
Great video