How have I never heard of Atheist Pastor? How have I never seen this video? The moment he said he was Hindu, I was like WTF is this... but it became very clear what was going on as it went forward. It highlights just how stupid presup sounds, and DD doesn't know how to get off script.
It actually just highlights that atheists fundamentally don't understand what presup is actually arguing. If they did, they'd never do something so silly as act like it would work for Hinduism. It only works for the Christian worldview, as a complete system... and it specifically disproves ALL other worldviews (including Hinduism) with the reducio ad absurdum on all non-Christian worldviews.
@@lightbeforethetunnel The God of the Bible lies. One of your required properties of the ultimate metaphysical primary is that it must be always truth revealing. A God that Lies cannot be always truth revealing. Using your own worldview, you cannot justify any statement you make.
@@lightbeforethetunnel found you again you cheeky little troll….. lol . Your comments are about as good as darths debates. Absolutely worthless. Question for you though. Why does the ultimate thing for all creation of life needs to be sentient? Why can’t it be, let’s say, atoms etc. The real building blocks of life. As what we have proof of? As to your atheists false arguing. No. And I have seen it done to darth many many times ( you think he would know this by now), it’s his exact own argument that he attempts to use on atheists. Yet when he asked for true evidence of darth for his god. Darth never shows it ever. In all his so many years of being the worst apologist for Christianity and his awful yet hilarious debate failures he has NEVER given proof.
@@williamritchie693 One almost has to admire LBTT's tenacity. Though one would think in all this time they might have learned that it's no use blaming others for one's own poor communication. If people aren't getting what someone is trying to communicate, and that person genuinely is trying to communicate rather than stand in arrogant and superior judgment upon others (I'll leave an assessment of that to the reader, but safe to say I have my doubts), then it's on that person to improve their communication style; it's not the fault of their audience. As someone who often has to explain technical concepts to non-technical audiences, if I get a room full of blank faces when I'm describing something, that's not on them, that's on me. It would be no good for me to complain that my audience "fundamentally doesn't understand" what I am explaining. I would have failed to do my job. LBTT doesn't seem to get this though. LBTT is too arrogant to be capable of learning anything. And so, they continue to perform their drive-bys on every counter-apologetic video in existence (which I'll be the first to admit are of variable quality) without apparently stopping to reflect on the feedback they get.
10:12 DD: "You couldn't have three separate things that were ultimate." AP: "Does that apply to the father, the son and the holy spirit?" DD: *looks at script* FUCK
So I thought of an analogy. I see darth ride by in my stolen motorcycle. I catch up to him and say “hey! That’s my motorcycle, give it back!” Darth then says, “no this is my motorcycle.” I then ask him “okay sure, can you show me some evidence that this is your motorcycle?” Then darth says, “well if you don’t have a grounding for reality, no one can own motorcycles in your worldview”. Then I throw a rock at him.
I like this moderator. He wasn't letting Darth run the conversation then ended the QnA after realizing that Darth didn't care about QnA and just wanted to continue his script.
When DD is not in charge of the mute button, he plays off as this patient civil character. From my encounters with him, an a discord server where some idiot has given him mod permissions, it's a totally different demeanour.
I have 2 things to say about this video. 1) 𝕋𝕠 ℙ𝕒𝕤𝕥𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕙𝕖𝕚𝕤𝕥 (ℂh𝕣𝕚𝕤): I congratulate you on a fine performance, and, contrary to what has been said about you being "incoherent and unintelligible", I understood you just fine and I didn't even need to use a Q-tip to clean out my ears in order to understand what you were saying. You did a fine job, and I salute you for it. 2) 𝕋𝕠 𝔼𝕧𝕠𝕝𝕦𝕥𝕚𝕠𝕟 𝔽𝕒𝕝𝕤𝕖 (𝔾𝕒𝕣𝕪): Thank you for having this conversation, because each and every time you open your mouth, you suppy me with tons of goodies that will look great on my website. I appreciate it Gary, thank you, and keep the supply of firewood coming.
Darth is lost without his server mute button, the script he wants to run through so someone can follow him down his ridiculous logic tree falls apart instantly.
All of DD's tactics here are the same as I remember when I first encountered him in the early Discord days. He is waiting for specific answers that align with his script and to then try and get a fallacious "ah ha" moment so he can feel like he has won.
Atheist Pastor following you 😁 come join us at the Atheist Experience Official Discussion group. We are the FB page for the atheist experience live call in show located in Austin Texas.
I’m so backed into a corner that I have to make up philosophical arguments and move the goalposts to save myself. Don’t overtalk me!!! -Gary “Darth” Milne 2020
For me it's the ONLY time! I've been watching Tom Rabbitt's a lot lately and it's literally painful to listen to him run on and on. The debate with Shannon Q badly needed someone like this man to reel him in. I enjoyed this video a lot. Subscribed!
FINALLY!!! Someone that Darth could not over-talk and bully with his bs. His tone is VASTLY different here from any other “conversation” I’ve seen him in. This is him cowering and doing his absolute best to seem like he’s not. Scared, frail, bigoted, racist, old dying bag of horrible ideas. If there is a god, Darth would have been taken off the board a long time ago.
It just blows me away that these Presupps don’t get that having to go to such extreme metaphysical and philosophical lengths isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement for the truth of Christianity…
Duncan is defining all other worldviews as arbitrary and his own as non-arbitrary, but he's doing it completely arbitrarily.. It's just another claim cloaked in wordy philosophical blibbidy blab. "What makes your religion able to ground and make coherent over any others?" "Because mine is the only one able to do that." Circular nonsense. Anyway, was nice to see a mostly calm exposure of his annoying shtick. Well done Chris with some effective moderating.
@38:35 That's not the law of excluded middle. Excluded middle means a proposition is either true or false. There is either a god or not. It DOES NOT mean that not believing there is a god is a belief that there is no god. The law of the excluded middle is about the trust of the proposition, not someone's position on the proposition.
The conversion moved along, Darth Dawkins did not move with it. He zeroed in exclusively on one extremely specific argument and this was 51 minutes where he refused to respect the moderator saying to not continue in the prior subject.
This narcissistic bully inspires so much hate and that fact is something both Christians and Atheists can bond over. He curses people out if they deviate from the script he aggressively pushes and doesn't let them question him. Anyone who disagrees with him even slightly, he regards as inferior and stupid, even other Christians. It's like he's never read 1st Peter 3:15. He never talks about Jesus, he just hates people who don't think the way he thinks.
@@Hereticals apologetics is a sordid business. Presuppositionalism is grubby even by the standards of apologetics, and that’s a pretty low bar (thanks Bill).
My world view is as follows, 'Anything is possible, except for that which there is explicit & demonstrable evidence showing it to be impossible." Have at it, Darth.
Yea all Darth is saying here is ‘If you believe in god as the ‘primary’ or whatever, then you accept it, and if you don’t accept it then I believe you’re not correct’ …. well yea obviously but so what?
He does this almost every time. Either you believe in a god world or you believe in a non god world. instead of in a god world or you do not. He does this one a lot to run his script. you accept my nonsense or you reject it instead of accept or do not its one of his little "tricks"
Absolute gold, Atheist Pastor, well done mate! The presuppositionalist's position is mental masturbation. It 'works' by; 1. Starting with a presupposition the god exists 2. Using that presupposed god as a foundation for the presupposition 3. Using that god as a foundation for absolute certainty about positions that are derived from that presupposition 4. Including the belief that the bible is entirely true in this derivation 5. Extending the certainty to cover their own personal interpretation of particular bible passages - despite the fact that these passages have been interpreted in different ways. So its dishonest because nothing is demonstrated, it is merely presupposed into certainty. If people have to argue your god into existence, then that says a great deal about the 'existence' of their god. *********** More thoughts... "None of them have the requistite property set that is required for human intelligibility". In other words, "I've presupposed the existence of my god, and I've also presupposed that it has the requiste property set that is required for human intelligibility". Do no, Darth hasn't demonstrated that there is a god, so he can't claim that his undemonstrated god has a particular property set. More word wank. "If you lack belief in a worldview, via the excluded middle, it is a rejection and a denial." Wrong. The valid options are 'acceptance' or 'non-acceptance'; the options are not 'acceptance' or 'rejection and denial'. One can choose not to accept a proposition because they are awaiting evidence, which as Atheist Pastor clearly showed, is not a rejection. "You're breaking up", aka "I need time to think up an answer".
D.D. Is only interested in bending people to his will with his long practised pre-sup script. If you heard him in one debate you’ve heard them all. I’m bored of him.
Any statement you make necessarily depends on your worldview, somehow? So if I say ‘I much prefer beef over lamb’ this statement is somehow incoherent unless I have the Christian worldview? That’s just total nonsense clearly.
That's presupposition. Declaring that the Christian view/God is the only thing moral and logical that all other arguments to the contrary following after is wrong or flawed without that pre suppose. If asked how do they know, they just say because it was presupposed already and presupps do everything they can to avoid providing evidence for their presupposed argument. They will not answer the evidence question and do things like "ill answer your question after you answer mine" etc.. Tactics. The last infamous pressuposolitionalist was Sye Ten Bruggencate, that was eventually exposed as a hack in a debate with Matt Dillahunty a few years ago... He tried to make a come back on the debate scene, but more people eventually had enough of his $#it and debate channels very much didn't want to carry him. This DD hasn't even reached that level yet as his reputation has presupposed him 😂 It's a dishonest and playschool logic, that churches would best to avoid as it is toxic. Its easy to dismiss however. They can say and act obnoxious all they want, but like all other apologists cannot provide evidence for the god claim. They just want to make their debate opponents angry. (which they sometimes do) Personally, I recon pressupposionalists are a special kind of apologists in that they are borderline naricissts/psychopaths. They provide nothing to the Religious debate and do more harm to Religion. The good news is, they are probably the "other Christians" christians refer to as for one of their reasons for leaving churches/Religion.
@@danielberthelot1295 Well that’s all we ultimately have to rely upon, the reliability of our senses as opposed to claims like ‘revelation in a way I can’t be wrong about’, that’s just a claim to some kind of ‘extra sensory ability’. But as far as not liking lamb for instance, it could be from something like once you ate bad lamb and you got sick so now you don’t like anymore.
My favorite bit is when presups proudly declare that someone "can't" be intelligible, or that they have "no grounding" for "logical absolutes"... Like.. Ok. So, anyway, let's hear from the atheist now... Uh, that's odd, they're still making intelligible, logical points, it's like the presup's assertion had absolutely no effect...
Just had him on our show and he was incredibly rude and interrupted me constantly. Would love to have you on our show and discuss how you deal with presupps. (the atheist round table)
Does anyone else with the brain larger than a gerbil realize how TOTALLY DIFFERENT a conversation is with Darth when someone is an actual moderator? TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
I think this is the best handling of DD I've seen yet, definitely need to check out more Atheist Pastor. He just immediately saw through what was going on, threw it back in DD's face, and he of course had no way of refuting because presuppositionalism is a joke.
Kudos to the moderator for not allowing the fatuous and otiose sophistry, dishonesty and ignorance of a religious nutter to control by bulling his channel 👍👍
The arrogance of people who claim to be “humble before God” is already wild in itself, but it’s especially bad when it’s someone like Darth Dawkins who KNOWS he has the absolute truth in his back pocket
‘Without (my specific presupposed god) … proof and evidence are simply incoherent’ delivered completely un-ironically is one of the funniest self owns I’ve ever seen. You have to be so delusional to actually believe that
Darth is not an honest debator. Clearly he has an axe to grind. He cannot demonstrate his worldview without first addressing his opponents. Whenever I take a positive position on something, i dont need to have the person who doesn't affirm my position to make my case. It stands on its owm merit. Ironically, without atheism and atheists, Darth Dawkins here cannot make the case for his god. If the world consisted entirely of Christians, this would be the only way darth could convince anyone he is correct. You already have to be a Christian to be convinced by the pressupsitional argument.
Atheist Pastor: "Can you prove that your god exists?" Evolution False: "If you don't believe in my god then everything you say is arbitrary and unintelligible." This is just beyond absurd. Even if I were to grant this, all it would prove is that we should believe in the christian god. But it wouldn't do anything to prove that god actually exists. Very telling that this is coming from the same man that accuses countless people of not answering his questions.
The moderator says to Darth "Lets move on" but there's nowhere for Darth to move on to. He has no other argument other than "I have grounding and you don't, nah nah nah nah" Of course he doesn't even have the grounding he claims, he just lies and says "it's been revealed to me".
Darth is under the delusion he can define a god into existence. The plural of anecdote is not data. The plural of guessing is not fact. The plural of inference is not deduction. The plural of assertion is not evidence.
You can't define your god as primary and then say you know it's primary because it's primary. You can't define your god in such a way that would necessarily lead to reductio ad absurdum when challenged.
@@legendary3952 depends entirely on the god. Some define the Judeo-Christian god as primary and ultimate but don't give any justification for that definition.
@@bobgumkowski9595 that makes zero sense to me. Definitions are not propositions and do not mean anything outside of what we decide. God is widely and mostly understood to be primary in western countries and the Abrahamic faiths. That’s just what we’ve decided. Counterexample are boring if they are laughably small in percentage
Darths always demanding a ‘mature adult interaction’ …. sounds a bit creepy first off, but Darth has demonstrated for years he’s incapable of having a mature discussion at all.
Accurate. Never approach Darth as if he was a human, or has shame or humility or a conscience. He is pure pathological narcissism and cannot be reasoned with.
@@dutchchatham1 Lol yeah. I overhead somebody say that if you gave DD the Turing Test, he would fail. Guy's a soundboard of crazy. Love to hate-watch him, though.
The real insanity is that everytime LITERALLY anything is said by the other party, Darth claims hes being "over talked", hes the only one handling himself like an adult, and hes never ever seems to be finished. If they cough he'll yell about how he's being talked over. He always needs to finish and unless you presuppose the Christian worldview, anything else is "unintelligible and incoherent". 100% of the time.
This is why it’s funny when DD talks to a real philosopher like Graham Oppy or a physicist like Lawrence Krauss who don’t have time for his worn-out BS script and don’t play into his purely rhetorical traps
Darth is so amazingly narrow in his thinking and his debate style no one should ever give him the light of day. "If you have no wings, breathing under water would be impossible" Darths claim. So because breathing under water is impossible, that proves we have wings. Everyone else: But, humans don't HAVE wings. Darth: Can you breathe under water? Everyone: Um...No? Darth: You have wings. Boom! Check mate atheists.
No darth, the dichotomy would be ‘either something is metaphysically primary, or something is not metaphysically primary’ …. You dishonestly stated it as ‘something is primary or nothing is primary’ …. that’s a false dichotomy. As you know because you’re so dishonest.
I love Darth’s line “that’s because you don’t understand” in other words, you’re not following my bullshit assertion that I have no evidence for! Man is such a coward.
No evidence, just loops. With a hole in the center. Basically a donut. We all got the same grounding for reasoning, but there's those types that just assert they have something more at the bottom - that they can only assert, and going out of their way to give evidence. All they can do is shifting their burden they can't meet. Pathetic. Big ups for the moderation! 👌
I received a personal revelation such that I can not be mistaken or confused from the really REAL GOD this afternoon. IT says IT doesn't like nor does IT support the evolution of Darth Dawkins as rhetorical rudeness is the only and most ultimate sin against IT.
30:00 Dingaling starts his technique of answering a question after several minutes of FORCING him to finally answer ONE damn question so DingDong ‘Blah blah blah’ for minutes in his dumb droning voice and then concludes WITH A QUESTION as his normal tactic is HE WILL NEVER answer any question he just spews some mind numbing BS then asks YOU a question so that none of what he just said is questioned it’s wrapped up and will not be discussed further now he’s on to something new the spotlight is back on you it’s POINTLESS!
Finally someone debated DARTH the way I would have. The best I have seen on TH-cam of someone making him look silly. Just use his same argument and substitute a different god for his Christian God. I wish he kept it up a little longer because it seemed DARTH didn't know how to handle it.
I loved that you started the conversation saying you were Hindu. It was a good way to put "Duncan" a little off balance. It didn't take him long to get back on his rails though. Glad that the moderator did a better job of keeping him from monologing than when Duncan talked to Shannon Q. That was a complete debacle. Glad I found your channel though. Keep up the good work!
Bloody DD. Haven't watched yet however I'm guessing he will wheel out his stupid presup script and will never actual show us his God. Let's see if I have guessed right. Bet we can hear his papers of his script rustling. ************* Notes while watching... A but not A. A but not A. I hate that script. It's ridiculous and just does not have any reason basis or justification or in his parlance without evidence. He never gives evidence. He never gives evidence! Coherently lack belief in God, categories, metaphysical, 'kay' 'I was explaining something' 'he talked over me' 'I wasn't hogging the conversation' '' incoherent' 'ground of all being' *** I think the moderation is trying to be pretty fair *** EF can't move on because his script has no scope to move on. 2/3rds through. *** He just can't stop his script. A valid line of reasoning, a reduction absurd am, unintelligibility etc. Debating him or conversing is pointless. He cannot modify from the script. *** How convenient that your speaking was breaking up for him lol. *** He just pulls his coherent rejection world view belief stuff and everything you assert and that it's not a world view. It's dishonest. Well least the moderator tried to keep Dunkin in check. Gods revelation. Gods revelation blah blah blah blah. Then claiming things that weren't said and done. Totally dishonest. ***
How have I never heard of Atheist Pastor? How have I never seen this video? The moment he said he was Hindu, I was like WTF is this... but it became very clear what was going on as it went forward. It highlights just how stupid presup sounds, and DD doesn't know how to get off script.
It actually just highlights that atheists fundamentally don't understand what presup is actually arguing. If they did, they'd never do something so silly as act like it would work for Hinduism. It only works for the Christian worldview, as a complete system... and it specifically disproves ALL other worldviews (including Hinduism) with the reducio ad absurdum on all non-Christian worldviews.
Personally I think someone needs to use The Easter Bunny as their presup for DD.
@@lightbeforethetunnel The God of the Bible lies. One of your required properties of the ultimate metaphysical primary is that it must be always truth revealing. A God that Lies cannot be always truth revealing. Using your own worldview, you cannot justify any statement you make.
@@lightbeforethetunnel found you again you cheeky little troll….. lol . Your comments are about as good as darths debates. Absolutely worthless. Question for you though. Why does the ultimate thing for all creation of life needs to be sentient? Why can’t it be, let’s say, atoms etc. The real building blocks of life. As what we have proof of?
As to your atheists false arguing. No. And I have seen it done to darth many many times ( you think he would know this by now), it’s his exact own argument that he attempts to use on atheists. Yet when he asked for true evidence of darth for his god. Darth never shows it ever. In all his so many years of being the worst apologist for Christianity and his awful yet hilarious debate failures he has NEVER given proof.
@@williamritchie693 One almost has to admire LBTT's tenacity.
Though one would think in all this time they might have learned that it's no use blaming others for one's own poor communication. If people aren't getting what someone is trying to communicate, and that person genuinely is trying to communicate rather than stand in arrogant and superior judgment upon others (I'll leave an assessment of that to the reader, but safe to say I have my doubts), then it's on that person to improve their communication style; it's not the fault of their audience.
As someone who often has to explain technical concepts to non-technical audiences, if I get a room full of blank faces when I'm describing something, that's not on them, that's on me. It would be no good for me to complain that my audience "fundamentally doesn't understand" what I am explaining. I would have failed to do my job.
LBTT doesn't seem to get this though. LBTT is too arrogant to be capable of learning anything. And so, they continue to perform their drive-bys on every counter-apologetic video in existence (which I'll be the first to admit are of variable quality) without apparently stopping to reflect on the feedback they get.
Crazy how every Darth Dawkins debate devolves to shouting and insults and Darth still hasn’t figured out he’s the common denominator
Darth's entire argument is based around avoiding giving justification for his own world view by asserting that it must be true by default.
10:12
DD: "You couldn't have three separate things that were ultimate."
AP: "Does that apply to the father, the son and the holy spirit?"
DD: *looks at script* FUCK
Lmao
@@DymondLoves me too
So I thought of an analogy.
I see darth ride by in my stolen motorcycle. I catch up to him and say “hey! That’s my motorcycle, give it back!” Darth then says, “no this is my motorcycle.” I then ask him “okay sure, can you show me some evidence that this is your motorcycle?” Then darth says, “well if you don’t have a grounding for reality, no one can own motorcycles in your worldview”. Then I throw a rock at him.
Haha, I like the end. 🤣
Can we all chuck rocks at him? Hey, it's biblical!!😅😇😅
Presuppers are to apologetics what sovcits are to law.
I like this moderator. He wasn't letting Darth run the conversation then ended the QnA after realizing that Darth didn't care about QnA and just wanted to continue his script.
I absolutely fucking love how un-seriously the atheist pastor is taking Darth Presup 😂
In fact, Darth has reasoned himself into a position where he cannot be wrong.
And his absolute source is 'hearsay'.
Universe, THIS is how you moderate a DD discussion.
When DD is not in charge of the mute button, he plays off as this patient civil character. From my encounters with him, an a discord server where some idiot has given him mod permissions, it's a totally different demeanour.
Darth: "you don't believe in God, therefore you can't comprehend evidence for God...."
What!?!?!?!
I have 2 things to say about this video.
1) 𝕋𝕠 ℙ𝕒𝕤𝕥𝕠𝕣 𝔸𝕥𝕙𝕖𝕚𝕤𝕥 (ℂh𝕣𝕚𝕤):
I congratulate you on a fine performance, and, contrary to what has been said about you being "incoherent and unintelligible", I understood you just fine and I didn't even need to use a Q-tip to clean out my ears in order to understand what you were saying. You did a fine job, and I salute you for it.
2) 𝕋𝕠 𝔼𝕧𝕠𝕝𝕦𝕥𝕚𝕠𝕟 𝔽𝕒𝕝𝕤𝕖 (𝔾𝕒𝕣𝕪): Thank you for having this conversation, because each and every time you open your mouth, you suppy me with tons of goodies that will look great on my website. I appreciate it Gary, thank you, and keep the supply of firewood coming.
Darth is lost without his server mute button, the script he wants to run through so someone can follow him down his ridiculous logic tree falls apart instantly.
DD is to philosophy as Charlie Zelenoff is to boxing.
Well spoken!
Noice
Yep…he’s the Steven Segal of apologetics.
All of DD's tactics here are the same as I remember when I first encountered him in the early Discord days. He is waiting for specific answers that align with his script and to then try and get a fallacious "ah ha" moment so he can feel like he has won.
The easiest way to debunk Darth is just to say “I presuppose I’m right, so I’m right.”
Assertion after assertion is not a conversation
First time watching your channel. But very familiar with Darth. He became abusive when you mirrored his own arguments. Hilarious 😂
Hope to see you here again :-)
Atheist Pastor following you 😁 come join us at the Atheist Experience Official Discussion group. We are the FB page for the atheist experience live call in show located in Austin Texas.
Gary Milne : You're not understanding = you're not agreeing with me.
Close but it “ your not understanding me - your not on my script and you haven’t said what step 3 is, so your not agreeing with me.
Literally what he tries with people who don't follow the script
I’m so backed into a corner that I have to make up philosophical arguments and move the goalposts to save myself. Don’t overtalk me!!! -Gary “Darth” Milne 2020
Fancy seeing you here!
@@Robeebert did we run into each other on discord?
The greatest weapon against DD is laughter. His narcissism cannot handle the idea that he isn’t being taken seriously 😂
You can tell Darth is over 50 yet he's never had his ass beat. As he speaks I keep looking for the smack button.
The Remedy - Puscifer
🤣🤣🤣
Can't figure out why atheist creators won't talk to Darth Dawkins? Probably because he talks like an incel script and sounds like a desperate shut-in.
Finally, a moderator with a backbone.
One of the few times I've seen a moderator actually moderate when dealing with Darth.
Yeah, the moderator was great. Darth is one of the most difficult people to deal with, so props to the moderator for keeping on it.
For me it's the ONLY time! I've been watching Tom Rabbitt's a lot lately and it's literally painful to listen to him run on and on. The debate with Shannon Q badly needed someone like this man to reel him in. I enjoyed this video a lot. Subscribed!
Darth dawkins has never been able to move past the first part of his first premise
Presup is the “because I said so” of apologetics.
But answering questions isn’t on my script!
Darth cannot argue for his position and conclude it is true , it’s that simple.
I've never heard Darth actually defend the Christian point of view. He constantly argues for a god he doesn't believe in.
No, he just wants atheists to defend their position.
@@ydrojzelf and he refuses to defend the Christian god.
@@worldgonemad5866 Yeah he just says that God revealed it and then only wants to talk about the other person's view.
@@ydrojzelf exactly. He refuses to defend the Christian God.
FINALLY!!! Someone that Darth could not over-talk and bully with his bs. His tone is VASTLY different here from any other “conversation” I’ve seen him in.
This is him cowering and doing his absolute best to seem like he’s not.
Scared, frail, bigoted, racist, old dying bag of horrible ideas. If there is a god, Darth would have been taken off the board a long time ago.
“So Gary… what did you say or do that was so evil that your entire family disowned you?” - Satan taking notes when he meets Darth in hell
Darth is a great asset to atheism
This was actually quite entertaining. Pointless but entertaining.
That's what I was aiming for
It just blows me away that these Presupps don’t get that having to go to such extreme metaphysical and philosophical lengths isn’t exactly a ringing endorsement for the truth of Christianity…
Duncan is defining all other worldviews as arbitrary and his own as non-arbitrary, but he's doing it completely arbitrarily.. It's just another claim cloaked in wordy philosophical blibbidy blab.
"What makes your religion able to ground and make coherent over any others?" "Because mine is the only one able to do that." Circular nonsense.
Anyway, was nice to see a mostly calm exposure of his annoying shtick. Well done Chris with some effective moderating.
Dude, you had me rolling with the Hindu bit, up front! 🎯 👌🏼🥃
@38:35 That's not the law of excluded middle. Excluded middle means a proposition is either true or false. There is either a god or not. It DOES NOT mean that not believing there is a god is a belief that there is no god. The law of the excluded middle is about the trust of the proposition, not someone's position on the proposition.
He knows the words, but not the meaning of them. That also explains why he believes he can simply define a god into existence by circular reasoning..
Kim Darth Un says: I am metaphysically primary.
Darth is defending something that won't even defend itself, kind of proves that this god doesn't care, or doesn't exist.
"Lacking belief in a god is a lack of belief in a category I made up". Okay Darth.
The conversion moved along, Darth Dawkins did not move with it. He zeroed in exclusively on one extremely specific argument and this was 51 minutes where he refused to respect the moderator saying to not continue in the prior subject.
I’m a Christian but this is beyond classic. I hate presup more than pretty much anything, well done sir.
Glad you enjoyed. He is a poor representative of your community.
This narcissistic bully inspires so much hate and that fact is something both Christians and Atheists can bond over. He curses people out if they deviate from the script he aggressively pushes and doesn't let them question him. Anyone who disagrees with him even slightly, he regards as inferior and stupid, even other Christians. It's like he's never read 1st Peter 3:15. He never talks about Jesus, he just hates people who don't think the way he thinks.
@@Hereticals apologetics is a sordid business. Presuppositionalism is grubby even by the standards of apologetics, and that’s a pretty low bar (thanks Bill).
Why the hate?
My world view is as follows, 'Anything is possible, except for that which there is explicit & demonstrable evidence showing it to be impossible." Have at it, Darth.
"That cannot be" = "I insist that I'm right"
Felt like I was explaining to my child that Santa isn’t real and he kept telling that he is and we don’t need evidence
Gary says “OK” impulsively, whenever he is cornered.
I feel he says ok when he thinks he made his point and is impressed with himself.
Yeah, he's imposing "you agree, right?" When he says "okay". NO. NOT OKAY.
Yea all Darth is saying here is ‘If you believe in god as the ‘primary’ or whatever, then you accept it, and if you don’t accept it then I believe you’re not correct’ …. well yea obviously but so what?
He does this almost every time.
Either you believe in a god world or you believe in a non god world. instead of in a god world or you do not. He does this one a lot to run his script.
you accept my nonsense or you reject it instead of accept or do not
its one of his little "tricks"
A million thumbs up for the moderator.
Absolute gold, Atheist Pastor, well done mate! The presuppositionalist's position is mental masturbation. It 'works' by;
1. Starting with a presupposition the god exists
2. Using that presupposed god as a foundation for the presupposition
3. Using that god as a foundation for absolute certainty about positions that are derived from that presupposition
4. Including the belief that the bible is entirely true in this derivation
5. Extending the certainty to cover their own personal interpretation of particular bible passages - despite the fact that these passages have been interpreted in different ways.
So its dishonest because nothing is demonstrated, it is merely presupposed into certainty. If people have to argue your god into existence, then that says a great deal about the 'existence' of their god.
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More thoughts...
"None of them have the requistite property set that is required for human intelligibility". In other words, "I've presupposed the existence of my god, and I've also presupposed that it has the requiste property set that is required for human intelligibility". Do no, Darth hasn't demonstrated that there is a god, so he can't claim that his undemonstrated god has a particular property set. More word wank.
"If you lack belief in a worldview, via the excluded middle, it is a rejection and a denial." Wrong. The valid options are 'acceptance' or 'non-acceptance'; the options are not 'acceptance' or 'rejection and denial'. One can choose not to accept a proposition because they are awaiting evidence, which as Atheist Pastor clearly showed, is not a rejection.
"You're breaking up", aka "I need time to think up an answer".
Reductio ad absurdum is a valid argument form as long as the components have been demonstrated to be sound, Darth never does this.
D.D. Is only interested in bending people to his will with his long practised pre-sup script. If you heard him in one debate you’ve heard them all.
I’m bored of him.
"evolution false" hes debunked himself already with that name
Any statement you make necessarily depends on your worldview, somehow? So if I say ‘I much prefer beef over lamb’ this statement is somehow incoherent unless I have the Christian worldview? That’s just total nonsense clearly.
That's presupposition.
Declaring that the Christian view/God is the only thing moral and logical that all other arguments to the contrary following after is wrong or flawed without that pre suppose.
If asked how do they know, they just say because it was presupposed already and presupps do everything they can to avoid providing evidence for their presupposed argument.
They will not answer the evidence question and do things like "ill answer your question after you answer mine" etc.. Tactics.
The last infamous pressuposolitionalist was Sye Ten Bruggencate, that was eventually exposed as a hack in a debate with Matt Dillahunty a few years ago... He tried to make a come back on the debate scene, but more people eventually had enough of his $#it and debate channels very much didn't want to carry him.
This DD hasn't even reached that level yet as his reputation has presupposed him 😂
It's a dishonest and playschool logic, that churches would best to avoid as it is toxic.
Its easy to dismiss however.
They can say and act obnoxious all they want, but like all other apologists cannot provide evidence for the god claim. They just want to make their debate opponents angry. (which they sometimes do)
Personally, I recon pressupposionalists are a special kind of apologists in that they are borderline naricissts/psychopaths. They provide nothing to the Religious debate and do more harm to Religion.
The good news is, they are probably the "other Christians" christians refer to as for one of their reasons for leaving churches/Religion.
And how is it that you came to that taste based conclusion? Your tongue? Your sense data?!?!
@@danielberthelot1295 Well that’s all we ultimately have to rely upon, the reliability of our senses as opposed to claims like ‘revelation in a way I can’t be wrong about’, that’s just a claim to some kind of ‘extra sensory ability’. But as far as not liking lamb for instance, it could be from something like once you ate bad lamb and you got sick so now you don’t like anymore.
@@davids11131113 just a joke.
@@danielberthelot1295 oh
My favorite bit is when presups proudly declare that someone "can't" be intelligible, or that they have "no grounding" for "logical absolutes"...
Like.. Ok.
So, anyway, let's hear from the atheist now...
Uh, that's odd, they're still making intelligible, logical points, it's like the presup's assertion had absolutely no effect...
Moderator is an EFFING LEGEND
Just had him on our show and he was incredibly rude and interrupted me constantly. Would love to have you on our show and discuss how you deal with presupps. (the atheist round table)
Hey there - send me a message on twitter @atheist_pastor and we can work out a time
"I'm right and your wrong" . Exactly! How is that an argument?
Presuppositionalism is "since I'm right, you cant be." It's vapid nonsense.
Lol the morning conversation to 🕉 really threw Darth for a loop🤣
Does anyone else with the brain larger than a gerbil realize how TOTALLY DIFFERENT a conversation is with Darth when someone is an actual moderator? TOTALLY DIFFERENT.
dd "I'm acting like an adult"
Gets muted
Moderator "I'm talking"
Good on him hahaha
‘I’m acting like an adult’ is just a shield Darth employs whenever he’s getting called out for being a bratty child. He’s such a hypocrite.
"If you don't agree with me, not only are you wrong, you don't even have an opinion at all"
There is no way this guy is real.
Malignant narcissism is a real problem. Gary is a very unwell person.
I think this is the best handling of DD I've seen yet, definitely need to check out more Atheist Pastor. He just immediately saw through what was going on, threw it back in DD's face, and he of course had no way of refuting because presuppositionalism is a joke.
Kudos to the moderator for not allowing the fatuous and otiose sophistry, dishonesty and ignorance of a religious nutter to control by bulling his channel 👍👍
The arrogance of people who claim to be “humble before God” is already wild in itself, but it’s especially bad when it’s someone like Darth Dawkins who KNOWS he has the absolute truth in his back pocket
‘Without (my specific presupposed god) … proof and evidence are simply incoherent’ delivered completely un-ironically is one of the funniest self owns I’ve ever seen. You have to be so delusional to actually believe that
Finally someone bitten let this guy talk over them change the subject and ask all the question
Darth is not an honest debator. Clearly he has an axe to grind. He cannot demonstrate his worldview without first addressing his opponents. Whenever I take a positive position on something, i dont need to have the person who doesn't affirm my position to make my case. It stands on its owm merit. Ironically, without atheism and atheists, Darth Dawkins here cannot make the case for his god. If the world consisted entirely of Christians, this would be the only way darth could convince anyone he is correct. You already have to be a Christian to be convinced by the pressupsitional argument.
Im kind of impressed by Darth for not blowing up and rage quitting halfway through. 🤣🤣
1st century Christianity didn’t have those pillars. Geesuz. Historical fail.
My idea. He's Trinitarian
Atheist Pastor: "Can you prove that your god exists?"
Evolution False: "If you don't believe in my god then everything you say is arbitrary and unintelligible."
This is just beyond absurd. Even if I were to grant this, all it would prove is that we should believe in the christian god. But it wouldn't do anything to prove that god actually exists. Very telling that this is coming from the same man that accuses countless people of not answering his questions.
The moderator says to Darth "Lets move on" but there's nowhere for Darth to move on to. He has no other argument other than "I have grounding and you don't, nah nah nah nah" Of course he doesn't even have the grounding he claims, he just lies and says "it's been revealed to me".
Darth is under the delusion he can define a god into existence. The plural of anecdote is not data. The plural of guessing is not fact. The plural of inference is not deduction. The plural of assertion is not evidence.
You can't define your god as primary and then say you know it's primary because it's primary. You can't define your god in such a way that would necessarily lead to reductio ad absurdum when challenged.
How should you be defined then?
God is usually understood as primary
That’s just what god means
@@legendary3952 depends entirely on the god. Some define the Judeo-Christian god as primary and ultimate but don't give any justification for that definition.
@@bobgumkowski9595 that makes zero sense to me.
Definitions are not propositions and do not mean anything outside of what we decide.
God is widely and mostly understood to be primary in western countries and the Abrahamic faiths. That’s just what we’ve decided.
Counterexample are boring if they are laughably small in percentage
I fucking LOVE this guy! I absolutely hate Dunkin Doughnuts. (Darth Dawkins)
"I was expecting to have a professional conversation," said the self admitted layman Christian.
Darths always demanding a ‘mature adult interaction’ …. sounds a bit creepy first off, but Darth has demonstrated for years he’s incapable of having a mature discussion at all.
Why is this guy trying to moderate Darth like he’s a human being?
Accurate. Never approach Darth as if he was a human, or has shame or humility or a conscience. He is pure pathological narcissism and cannot be reasoned with.
@@dutchchatham1 Lol yeah. I overhead somebody say that if you gave DD the Turing Test, he would fail. Guy's a soundboard of crazy. Love to hate-watch him, though.
Keep my name out your mouth, Darth
25:59 “in order to coherently lack belief in god…” Give me a break Darth 😂😂
The levels of Dishonesty shown By Darth are absolutely staggering........
@21:47 You can believe that there is something metaphysically primary, but that doesn't require that you know what it is.
"Why is that thing your gaaad?"
"Because it can only be my gaaad."
That is yet another claim, Gary. Not an answer, explanation nor a demonstration.
The real insanity is that everytime LITERALLY anything is said by the other party, Darth claims hes being "over talked", hes the only one handling himself like an adult, and hes never ever seems to be finished. If they cough he'll yell about how he's being talked over. He always needs to finish and unless you presuppose the Christian worldview, anything else is "unintelligible and incoherent". 100% of the time.
This is why it’s funny when DD talks to a real philosopher like Graham Oppy or a physicist like Lawrence Krauss who don’t have time for his worn-out BS script and don’t play into his purely rhetorical traps
Darth is so amazingly narrow in his thinking and his debate style no one should ever give him the light of day.
"If you have no wings, breathing under water would be impossible"
Darths claim. So because breathing under water is impossible, that proves we have wings.
Everyone else: But, humans don't HAVE wings.
Darth: Can you breathe under water?
Everyone: Um...No?
Darth: You have wings. Boom! Check mate atheists.
Hereticals.. I can't believe I haven't seen this until now... I just subscribed, you did an awesome job dude! This was great!
Thank you very much. I know I enjoyed it. He has avoided me ever since and wont come back for round 2!
No darth, the dichotomy would be ‘either something is metaphysically primary, or something is not metaphysically primary’ …. You dishonestly stated it as ‘something is primary or nothing is primary’ …. that’s a false dichotomy. As you know because you’re so dishonest.
I love Darth’s line “that’s because you don’t understand” in other words, you’re not following my bullshit assertion that I have no evidence for!
Man is such a coward.
No evidence, just loops. With a hole in the center. Basically a donut.
We all got the same grounding for reasoning, but there's those types that just assert they have something more at the bottom - that they can only assert, and going out of their way to give evidence. All they can do is shifting their burden they can't meet. Pathetic.
Big ups for the moderation! 👌
Its like listening to the ramblings of a person that has been committed to an insane asylum
I received a personal revelation such that I can not be mistaken or confused from the really REAL GOD this afternoon. IT says IT doesn't like nor does IT support the evolution of Darth Dawkins as rhetorical rudeness is the only and most ultimate sin against IT.
Darth is actual brainrot
Nicely done AP. 👍🏾✊🏾👍🏾
Just subscribed
Glad you enjoyed it :) - I know I did
@@Hereticals I'm really enjoying the review of this with yourself, Jay & Geoff :)
30:00 Dingaling starts his technique of answering a question after several minutes of FORCING him to finally answer ONE damn question so DingDong ‘Blah blah blah’ for minutes in his dumb droning voice and then concludes WITH A QUESTION as his normal tactic is HE WILL NEVER answer any question he just spews some mind numbing BS then asks YOU a question so that none of what he just said is questioned it’s wrapped up and will not be discussed further now he’s on to something new the spotlight is back on you it’s POINTLESS!
How can anyone know what's lacking in another person's worldview when it is subjective?
Also the statement that someone's world view HAS to rely on a single foundational concrete fact is ridiculous.
Finally someone debated DARTH the way I would have. The best I have seen on TH-cam of someone making him look silly. Just use his same argument and substitute a different god for his Christian God. I wish he kept it up a little longer because it seemed DARTH didn't know how to handle it.
darth pretending he is an adult and doesnt spend his entire life over-talking people is so cute.
You can tell the moderator has never heard Darth "debate" before.
I loved that you started the conversation saying you were Hindu. It was a good way to put "Duncan" a little off balance. It didn't take him long to get back on his rails though. Glad that the moderator did a better job of keeping him from monologing than when Duncan talked to Shannon Q. That was a complete debacle. Glad I found your channel though. Keep up the good work!
I skip over most of Gary’s responses after the first few words. His responses are so predictable/scripted.
Barf Dorkins starts with claims, then backs them up with more claims.... and he knows it.😉
Wow. When Darth is up against someone who knows their theology and doesn’t have a sycophant mod. He is so much more polite :-)
Bloody DD. Haven't watched yet however I'm guessing he will wheel out his stupid presup script and will never actual show us his God. Let's see if I have guessed right. Bet we can hear his papers of his script rustling.
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Notes while watching...
A but not A.
A but not A.
I hate that script.
It's ridiculous and just does not have any reason basis or justification or in his parlance without evidence. He never gives evidence. He never gives evidence!
Coherently lack belief in God, categories, metaphysical, 'kay' 'I was explaining something' 'he talked over me' 'I wasn't hogging the conversation' '' incoherent' 'ground of all being'
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I think the moderation is trying to be pretty fair
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EF can't move on because his script has no scope to move on. 2/3rds through.
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He just can't stop his script. A valid line of reasoning, a reduction absurd am, unintelligibility etc. Debating him or conversing is pointless. He cannot modify from the script.
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How convenient that your speaking was breaking up for him lol.
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He just pulls his coherent rejection world view belief stuff and everything you assert and that it's not a world view. It's dishonest. Well least the moderator tried to keep Dunkin in check. Gods revelation. Gods revelation blah blah blah blah. Then claiming things that weren't said and done. Totally dishonest.
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You couldn't have been more correct!