@@WhoThisMonkey ‘Psycopathy is a mental health condition characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits’…..seems to fit Gary here like a glove.
@@davids11131113 I'm willing to say narcissist when it comes to Gary, but not psychopath, I've met and interacted with many psychopaths, he doesn't ring those bells for me. It is very hard to fully determine, if he simply doesn't say more, he sticks to the same script so damn much, that you can't really analyse him fully. Which, could be intentional. 🤷🏼♂️ If I had a face to face with him, I would be able to tell very quickly if he was a psychopath, my autism has given me the ability of kinesthetic empathy, I spot them very quickly with a high degree of accuracy. They don't like me in public, because I always spot them, and they pick up on it. (Had a few corner me, which is always alarming.)
I can see where someone would develop the idea this is absurd, but a position is not someone’s opinion on a topic, a position derives from someone’s opinions on a topic and is a true answer to a question. Once you develop a position, ie a true answer to a question, then you allow and follow the logical paths that arise from that true answer. Most atheists seem to not understand this basic fundamental fact of how logic, debate and positions work.
In other words, “God probably doesn’t exist” isn’t a position, it’s not a true answer to a yes or no question. “God probably doesn’t exist” is an opinion from which you decide the answer to the yes or no question which would be your position, and that would be God doesn’t exist. Again, this is how logic and positions work.
@@travispratt6327 "A position is not someone's opinion on a topic, a position derives from someone's opinion on a topic". Did you type that with a straight face? "Most atheists..." Hasty generalisation. You've not spoken with "most atheists" to assert this.
@@paulcooper1223 “did you type that with a straight face?” Look up what a position is in philosophy and logic, you’ll see countless sources explaining exactly what I wrote. “U did hasty generalization!” No I didn’t, I made a generalization and said how it SEEMS to me, that is not making any claims about how atheists actually are, merely claiming how it seems to me after listening to and discussing with atheists for 30+ years, that’s a large enough sample size to draw a generalization that most atheists don’t understand what a position is in philosophy, you included. In fact I’d say it seems to me most atheists show a very amateurish understanding of logic and philosophy, it’s not confined to simple positions.
Every time an atheist mocks someone for trying to explain their position to them based on their opinions, that’s highly indicative they don’t understand positions. Every time an atheist says their position is “I lack belief in God” or some variation of a psychological state, that’s highly indicative of them not understanding what a position is. These happen regularly, and partly explain how I can say it seems to me most atheists don’t understand what a position is in logic and philosophy. Based on these things, it would seem they have an amateur understanding of the colloquial definition meaning “like my personal take and stuff” and don’t understand what an actual position in logic and philosophy is. Have a counter to this or a demonstration why I’m wrong? I’d love to hear it, but as for now it sure seems to me, based on a sufficient sample size of dealing with atheists for 30+ years, most atheists do not understand positions in logic and philosophy, and overall show amateurish understandings of them.
Ozymandias' dialogue, argument and manner was excellent. 👍👍 You can clearly hear where his argument caused DD to reach flash point. Critical mass was achieved, and the reaction was a foregone conclusion.
‘He was quite rude and machine gun talking’ …. Ozzy is probably the most polite and calm person in these encounters and what machine gun talking Darth, you never even let his get out a full sentence before muting him.
‘So you’re saying you position is nethethary’ ‘No I’m saying it’s provisional’ ‘So you’re saying your position ith nethethary’ ‘No I’m saying it’s provisional, not necessary’ ‘But in order to proceed along my script I need you to thay nethethary’ Just a terrible troll Darth is.
it's so sad that Darth can't adapt to the conversation anymore in these days. Maybe he is just old and his brain is crushed. Like 15 years ago he was able to follow a conversation and listen. Today those are just brain farts from him.
the tap dancing and script began, this was hilarious, darth COMPLETELY outclassed, using all his moron 'feigning offence at rudeness' etc tricks did nothing.
I saw Ozzy's name in the title and hoped for an hour long video, but secretly I knew better. I'm surprised it even lasted 15 minutes. Hopefully Ozzy will hang around clubhouse for awhile.
DD was recorded several times saying he “likes” and “respects” Ozzy, so he couldn’t just kick him from the get go! As usual, he had to first accuse him several times of breaking DD’s “rules of engagement” and only then could he label against him the usual accusations.
6:50 DD: "well I wanna focus on one issue at a time" that's Darth code for "I want to pretend that this one thing right here is the sum total entirety of your position"
I think that it's also an admission that Darth isn't smart enough to understand an argument. So he can only strawman 1 aspect of an argument, claim to defeat it (he Presupposes to have beaten it before it was stated) and then claim that a chair does stand upon 1 leg, while that was never the claim.
To reduce this moment in time down to a single explanation, Darth was continually trying to narrow Ozzy's statements down to a single point when Ozzy kept clarifying that Darth's condensed version was missing key points. Darth would try to re-define Ozzy's comments and Ozzy would try to further explain how the Darth's characterizations were inaccurate. Now...put that on a 22 minute loop...and there you have it.
Wow! Darth is a very poor man. Very thing that he said about the other guy, he did all the time ! He’s the rudest person I every heard. I think an atheists should not let this fumbling, “obnoxious and belligerent” get any more time with good atheist!
Dishonest darth tactic #543: Step 1: Do not allow your opponent to enumerate their position. Force their points to seem like they are what individually leads to the conclusion that gods do not exist. Step 2: kill the conversation at the first point and try to make it seem like its their fault for being 'rude'. Step 3: Somehow talk about teenagers you've argued with being better than their conduct Step 4: "This is what they do"
In my career, I worked with domestic violence perps and victims. I would be very concerned about any woman who might spend time alone with this Darth guy.
I love that Darth just starts using terms he hears his interlocutor say. "Oooh, vacuous... that's a good smart word... I wanna use that word... I used that word... if fact, I'm the one who brought it up!"
Obviously, the best part is the one where DD owns every point Ozy presented… after he kicked him out! He surely is a master when arguing with his moronic strawmans of someone else’s arguments. Ozy was as clear and precise as always. DD was quickly into his stuttering mode and struggling to maintain his usual script.
He even tries to ram home his script at thr end by repeating himself a few times. Gotta love the "It's vacuous since it doesn't explain anything" then he goes "well.... time to move on to a different part of the script since that breaks me"
All Gary needs to do is explain the mechanism god uses to “do” anything. If god makes someone float in midair: did he cancel gravity? Did he stretch space time? Does he negate mass? Just saying “my gawd done did it” explains nothing.
Godless Girl doesn’t think getting DD off script is a “win”, but it’s hard to see how that’s not true when the next thing that happens is DD cans his interlocutor then does an unearned victory lap after they’re gone.
The dialogue tree is fascinating. Whenever someone gives him an answer her doesn't like to his leading question, he says "I don't think you're understanding the question". Ozzy just completely shut down the points, then throws a temper tantrum painting the opponent as "rude" and resorts to personal attacks, referring to them as trolling when they don't follow the narrative. Absolutely despicable.
I often can't handle these discussions with Dawkins and they make me queazy but I'm powerless to resist the "HEY, I'M TOM RABBITT!!!!" intro with that powerful recorder.
Wow....it took Dingdong nearly seven minutes before he started trying to find ways to escape and to grenade the conversation....he must have just had some warm milk or something. Ozy handled him brilliantly. And then Dingdong tried to pretend it wasn’t him who muted Ozy....what a joke
Oz gives everyone a blueprint on how to handle a conversation with darthdickhead. Hold to your points and don't allow him to redefine your position. He does that shit all the time. He keeps restating shit in different ways that is different from what you said and then tries to u-turn back to his script. The script is the reason these conversations are always derailed . Always..... The smarter you are the further it pulls him away from the script. Thus the sharper the u-turn will be and the less sense it will make....
He tries to be sneaky about it too. Adding in a single word that flips the answer to what he wants. Always call that shit out immediately. He can only argue on script and anything else is too much for his little mind.
@@oxidize11 Honestly he isn't very smart. He doesn't do well when he is on the back foot. It's strange the different combinations of attributes that let people be this way.
Very nice. Ozy did as good as can be done v DD and the mods. He absolutely would not allow the shift of the burden of proof, while maintaining his position, and offering reason for it.
Hey Darth, if you do not want the concept of an ultimate mind as an explanation for everything to be vacuous then you need to explain how this mind brings everything into existence. If you cannot do this then saying a mind did it is vacuous. This isn't rocket science.
“You can wait til I’m down”. That’s just it. He’s never done. He pretend he’s listening but he’s just waiting to run his next question after mischaracterizing his interlocutor. Then he commits mod abuse.
Darth could see he was not going to win this and immediately found reasons to kick him. What a weasel. But then you have to be to be a "believer" because ultimately there's no justification.
Because that's a category error fallacy on Ozy's end. God is a non-contingent, paradigm-level claim, meaning it's not a provisional claim. One either affirms or denies God's existence. Same for any other metaphysical framework.
@lightbeforethetunnel "God is a non-contingent, paradigm-level claim..." So, what? Presuppy pleading - Desperately repeating the same incantations over and over again, trying to manifest a new reality into existence... ...and failing to do so, over and over again. Y'all are the SovCits of apologetics.
@@Petticca So the only options to choose from for non-contingencies are: 1. Necessarily true, or 2. Necessarily false (No third option of neutrality or withholding judgment)
God does not exist because... I lack the necessary epistemic justification to make the claim that God does not exist, which is why I don't hold that position. My position is that I lack the necessary epistemic justification to affirm that a god does exist. Until such time as sufficient epistemic justification can be provided (to affirm that a god does, or no gods do exist) I will continue to hold my current position.
Wow, I can’t believe this conversation went as far as it did. It’s shocking that Darth allowed Ozzy to own him with reason & critical thinking. Anytime anyone attempts to do that, they’re usually punted within a minute or two. This was an embarrassing own for Darth… 🤦🏼♂️
It is because Darth was not experiencing an imbalance in his brain chemicals at that point, and was not chasing a 'win' in order to generate the needed chemicals. When his depression kicks in, he needs quick successive wins. That is when he will see the finish line retreat into the distance, and kick his opponent for a weaker one.
@@830toAwesome Perhaps I was confused, this conversation seemed very similar to one that I recall from, maybe a couple years ago. However, as you have pointed out, there are considerable clues that suggest it is of more recent origins. I also do not have a hard time believing that Darth could have very much the same conversation with the same person, a couple of years apart. So, my mistake, and thank you for the correction.
I’ve talked with Oz. I like his positions. Very much like my own. EDIT: Darth got owned. He overtalks and interrupts - then kicks. Chickenshit. He knew he was getting owned.
I sometimes wonder if DD’s narcissism is so strong that he doesn’t consciously realize that he’s being owned, because that’s not a possibility in his world?
Does no one else notice the slight of hand Gary does with conflating the ontological claim “god either exists or he doesn’t” and the epistemic claim “you either believe god exists or not”?
Oh definitely and he’s been called out many times on his conflating ontology and epistemology, but it’s an integral part of his script so Darth just acts like he doesn’t, he just ignores it.
Darth needs a strawman false dichotomy to move his script forward to pin the burden of proof on those that oppose him. Either "god" exists or not is a true dichotomy. But darth uses a generic "ground of all being" definition but he's actually arguing for a VERY SPECIFIC god with VERY SPECIFIC necessary properties. It's very possible that there IS a ground of all being that secures reality...and ISNT the specific god of the bible. The only question you should ask a presup is "is it possible you're wrong about what you claim is the source of Intelligibility". They must answer no. They must say they have absolute knowledge, can not be wrong, and it's been revealed through supernatural revelation. At this point you know you've exposed they are not an honest interlocutor and you politely decline to engage
Darth was looking for the parachute from the very beginning. Its hilarious to see Darth trying to use his teenage check this box and only this Box with someone of Ozys standing. What a total joke
Darth overtalked Ozy more times than the inverse, and there is also the distinct difference in that when Ozy interrupted it was when Darth misrepresented Ozy's position and when Darth interrupted it's when Ozy was answering Darth's questions. Darth is the one being rude here, he pretty much is always the one being rude and extremely obnoxious. Darth's conception of "not being rude" is "don't you dare interrupt me ever, but allow me to interrupt you whenever I like it".
From listening to the debate, it sounded like Ozy said to state that whatever is metaphysically prime is a mind or is not a mind are equally vacuous. That statement or characterization doesn’t explain anything either way. Scientists describe a process that produced the universe. They describe how that process is (believed or understood) to go from A to B to C. They also describe what they aren’t sure about. That there doesn’t appear to be a mind in -that- process is in reference to the -process- and how the elements -of- that process work. Ozy is saying there could even be a mind -within- that process but that mind would have to be established like the other elements and how that mind works with those elements would need to be shown too. DD didn’t, couldn’t, hear that distinction. He was too busy pushing Ozy into DD’s script.
Darths huge Achilles heel….his assertion explains nothing. Darth knows this so that’s why he panic muted Alex when he said ‘look we can say ‘god farted’ …. MUTE then lecture about misbehaving so badly and all.
@@mybad2603 If the "nature" is necessary, then it sounds like the "god" would be contingent on it, so shouldn't you be worshipping the "nature", rather than the "god"?
@@mybad2603 so? 'I don't know' is a valid position to take while awaiting evidence or sufficient information where we don't yet have it. What's your point.
@@JosephKano If you don't know what the casual origin is tell me how did you rule god out? if you say there's no evidence you're stating that nothing has it's causal origin in god and since you don't know what the causal origin is of everything that begins then how did you rule god out? Stating that there's no evidence is just simply restating the same claim. Circular reasoning.
This time was really bad circular explaining too. Like "It's not vacuous since he needs grounding so he needs grounding or else it's vacuous, but it's not since there's grounding so it's grounded." It was blatantly bad and dumber than usual.
Darths greatest strength is arguing with strawmen. He boots a perfectly competent and reasonable person wap won't suffer Darth's interruptions and mischaracterizations.
*_"There are good reasons to believe Bigfoot doesn't exist"_* Whatever those reasons are, Darth, apply them to God and you can answer your own question.
Every debate I've seen, Darth says "I've been nothing but polite and cordial", but I've only ever seen him talk like a condescending prick. Zero self awareness.
Ozzy slaughtered the famous script-reader. This doesn't mean the script-reader sometime in the near future will shamelessly talk about when he defeated Ozzy in this conversation. The only defeating ability the script-reader has is the mute button.
Ozy hit the nail on the head in the first couple of minutes "Yes IF God is necessary then God WOULD be necessary" Darth keeps trying to have the conversation 'in a world where God is necessary how can their be no God' When the conversation is 'IS a God necessary'
It's a dishonest tactic. They're basically saying "if god is real how can he be fake" then expect you to play along. "In my view god exists, prove he doesn't." You try to show that's not the conversation and they launch nukes.
Alex clearly wasn’t ‘very misbehaved’ at all, Darth just knew he was getting BTFO’d so he pulled the eject handle and bailed then went on his standard NPD narcissistic personality disorder monologue claiming how everyone surely sees Darth was in the right here, m’kay? And this is why he has his dumb Misfit Toy club. It’s so pathetic.
So thick. In fact so thick that he must be missing all his notes he used to keep on discord. He’s been bitch slapped by so many atheists he can’t keep track of them all. Great to see Clobberhouse offers a whole new platform to gang rape Van Tillian apologetics.
Ozy rolled up Darths script and rammed it up Darths ass he panicked and ran…..and I love the aftershows where he pleads to his dumbass minions about how he totally won that and his opponent was so poorly behaved….what a damn clown.
Great demonstration of how Darth and the Misfit Toys presup game is nothing and easy to beat as long as you don’t allow them to drag you down their rabbit holes. ‘I did not say god does not exist’ ‘Okay Al Al AlAlex? God does not exist becaaauuuse??’ Darth deserves absolutely zero respect at all what an asshole.
If one stipulatively defines god as the ultimate reason for everything, one cannot at the same time assert that that’s the explanation. Nicely debunked by Ozzie!
Literally never seen Ozy be this outraged in conversation and he's utterly justified given the conditions under which he was trying to communicate. Darth''s ritual post-boot bad faith reframing is so goddamned funny if you're familiar with Ozy and how he generally comports himself in discussion.
@@oxidize11 He does it literally everytime. Sometimes if he's getting manhandled badly enough, he'll stop in the middle of the conversation to try and reframe the audiences' experience and impressions. "I'm actually embarrassed for you about how bad you're doing/everyone knows you're drowning philosophically" etc.
@@alexcartagena1983 , I've seen JRobin do it when his opponent has to step away from the mic/talk a second. "Okay, so, what's going on here is..." desperate to control the narrative and soothe cognitive dissonance.
I enjoyed this. Not only did Oswald expertly cut through Darth's "vacuous" claims, but the debate didn't follow the usual pattern of beta-male submission to his abuse. Indeed, when Oswald said that he wouldn't tolerate being muted, I knew we had a winner.
Yeah I enjoyed it too. I'm trying to have less of Darth's content where it's just the same thing we've heard a million times. However, that's most of his interactions.
There's one thing i don't get, apologist are always trying to prove the opposition wrong like if that will prove their position right by default, they have to make a case. Even if an atheist have a burden of proof, even if they show the atheist is wrong that doesn't prove they are right automatically. An honest apologist is an oxymoron i guess.
There are religious apologists which I understand these days they need to make some excuses for religion trying to get people onboard….then there’s presup which is apologetics for sociopaths.
You can hear the panic setting in at 7:30 or so when Darth starts complaining about overtalking. But simply to shut down the metaphysical mumbo jumbo by saying that positing something isn’t an explanation is great - it’s worth keeping in the playbook for dealing with presups.
It's hilarious to me that Darth is just laying out a blueprint for defeating his own shitty argument here. Darth claims to be a coherentist and he relies on the "virtuously" circular nature of an always truth revealing omni-god justifying revelation and revelation justifying an always truth revealing omni-god. But if we were to use Darth's own tactics here, and not allow him to present his full argument at one, he'll be forced to just present his always truth revealing omni-god and without "getting distracted by other stuff" he won't be able to justify that omni-god, and of course when (if) we move on to the second leg of Darth's justification (revelation from the omni-God) Darth can't justify that either because the omni-God has already been dismissed when evaluating the first leg of the argument. Don't get me wrong, Darth still can't actually get the epistemic justification from that mess that he claims to, even when allowed to argue however he wants, but if forced to endure the same nonsense he forced upon Ozy, there's no way he gets his argument through. So again this is just another demonstration that Darth's arguments are garbage and the only thing he has going for him is rhetoric and mod powers.
Because it poisons the well when speaking to atheists. As long as he can establish that "all atheists are rude and dishonest", he can then justify his punting of anyone who gets the upper hand with him (which is most ppl). He's just pathetic, and a waste to talk with
Darths narcissism stroking session which is important….he’d just taken a huge L and needed to make sure his Misfit Toys were onboard still, because they’re fatherless rejects of society.
This is funny that this is the “new and improved” Darth. He still can’t stay off of the kick button and figure out how to have a polite discourse with someone. He’d rather pontificate more than ever on rudeness and obnoxiousness which is his exact modus operandi.
Haha, again why does anyone let him start with ''god'' ? The god is the question, not the answer. He is defeated in the first ten seconds and can go no further until he presents his god. Easiest bullshitter out there to just laugh and laugh at....
It’s a great demonstration of how to handle Darth, just keep saying he’s just making baseless assertions and his script goes up in flames, PLUS not caring about his bullying tell Darth you’re not putting up with his abuse so go ahead and kick me if you have to, which he does have to.
Do you really think none of Darth's minions noticed that he got Ozy's position exactly backwards when accusing him of saying it would not be vacuous to say that what was metaphysically primary was not a mind. At 12:20, Ozy says just the opposite of that. I bet at least one the minions knew, but were too cowered to contradict their leader.
Darth's definition of someone overtalking is when he begins to interrupt his interlocutor mid sentence and they have the audacity to keep talking.
"Stop overtalking me when I'm trying to interrupt you!"
@@derkylos haha, exactly that.
"Be quiet and let me abuse you!"
It’s really crazy.
Not even. I think he considers an answer an interruption.
Good for Ozzy for not at all putting up with being abused by this malignant narcissist psycho.
He isn't a psychopath, that doesn't fit.
@@WhoThisMonkey How so.
@@WhoThisMonkey ‘Psycopathy is a mental health condition characterized by persistent antisocial behavior, impaired empathy and remorse, and bold, disinhibited, and egotistical traits’…..seems to fit Gary here like a glove.
@@davids11131113
I'm willing to say narcissist when it comes to Gary, but not psychopath, I've met and interacted with many psychopaths, he doesn't ring those bells for me.
It is very hard to fully determine, if he simply doesn't say more, he sticks to the same script so damn much, that you can't really analyse him fully.
Which, could be intentional. 🤷🏼♂️
If I had a face to face with him, I would be able to tell very quickly if he was a psychopath, my autism has given me the ability of kinesthetic empathy, I spot them very quickly with a high degree of accuracy.
They don't like me in public, because I always spot them, and they pick up on it. (Had a few corner me, which is always alarming.)
@@WhoThisMonkey Well you can do what you want but there’s that quick definition of psychopathy fits Gary perfectly seems to me.
How rude of Ozzy to not let Darth tell him what his position really is.
I can see where someone would develop the idea this is absurd, but a position is not someone’s opinion on a topic, a position derives from someone’s opinions on a topic and is a true answer to a question. Once you develop a position, ie a true answer to a question, then you allow and follow the logical paths that arise from that true answer. Most atheists seem to not understand this basic fundamental fact of how logic, debate and positions work.
In other words, “God probably doesn’t exist” isn’t a position, it’s not a true answer to a yes or no question. “God probably doesn’t exist” is an opinion from which you decide the answer to the yes or no question which would be your position, and that would be God doesn’t exist. Again, this is how logic and positions work.
@@travispratt6327 "A position is not someone's opinion on a topic, a position derives from someone's opinion on a topic".
Did you type that with a straight face?
"Most atheists..."
Hasty generalisation. You've not spoken with "most atheists" to assert this.
@@paulcooper1223 “did you type that with a straight face?”
Look up what a position is in philosophy and logic, you’ll see countless sources explaining exactly what I wrote.
“U did hasty generalization!”
No I didn’t, I made a generalization and said how it SEEMS to me, that is not making any claims about how atheists actually are, merely claiming how it seems to me after listening to and discussing with atheists for 30+ years, that’s a large enough sample size to draw a generalization that most atheists don’t understand what a position is in philosophy, you included. In fact I’d say it seems to me most atheists show a very amateurish understanding of logic and philosophy, it’s not confined to simple positions.
Every time an atheist mocks someone for trying to explain their position to them based on their opinions, that’s highly indicative they don’t understand positions. Every time an atheist says their position is “I lack belief in God” or some variation of a psychological state, that’s highly indicative of them not understanding what a position is. These happen regularly, and partly explain how I can say it seems to me most atheists don’t understand what a position is in logic and philosophy. Based on these things, it would seem they have an amateur understanding of the colloquial definition meaning “like my personal take and stuff” and don’t understand what an actual position in logic and philosophy is.
Have a counter to this or a demonstration why I’m wrong? I’d love to hear it, but as for now it sure seems to me, based on a sufficient sample size of dealing with atheists for 30+ years, most atheists do not understand positions in logic and philosophy, and overall show amateurish understandings of them.
Darth: “Someone can correct me if I’m mistaken”. Well, that someone could have been Ozy, but you booted him.
And that's WHY he booted him. Darth can see defeat coming.
And if someone had stepped up to correct him, he’d also get booted.
Darth is a coward... only can exist when he has censoring mods. Ozzy had him in a headlock and Darth was terrified.
Ozymandias' dialogue, argument and manner was excellent. 👍👍
You can clearly hear where his argument caused DD to reach flash point. Critical mass was achieved, and the reaction was a foregone conclusion.
beautifully stated.
‘He was quite rude and machine gun talking’ …. Ozzy is probably the most polite and calm person in these encounters and what machine gun talking Darth, you never even let his get out a full sentence before muting him.
‘So you’re saying you position is nethethary’
‘No I’m saying it’s provisional’
‘So you’re saying your position ith nethethary’
‘No I’m saying it’s provisional, not necessary’
‘But in order to proceed along my script I need you to thay nethethary’
Just a terrible troll Darth is.
it's so sad that Darth can't adapt to the conversation anymore in these days. Maybe he is just old and his brain is crushed. Like 15 years ago he was able to follow a conversation and listen. Today those are just brain farts from him.
"I'm asking you not to be rude and overtalk me"
_(While I continue to be rude and overtalk you...)_
Darth is an almost parodic embodiment of interruption and obnoxiousnous.
As soon as ozzy said his non belief in god was provisional darth had nowhere to go😂
the tap dancing and script began, this was hilarious, darth COMPLETELY outclassed, using all his moron 'feigning offence at rudeness' etc tricks did nothing.
I saw Ozzy's name in the title and hoped for an hour long video, but secretly I knew better. I'm surprised it even lasted 15 minutes. Hopefully Ozzy will hang around clubhouse for awhile.
For real. Really surprised it went as long as it did.
@@TomRabbittt Darth was downright sedate compared to how he is normally.
DD was recorded several times saying he “likes” and “respects” Ozzy, so he couldn’t just kick him from the get go!
As usual, he had to first accuse him several times of breaking DD’s “rules of engagement” and only then could he label against him the usual accusations.
6:50 DD: "well I wanna focus on one issue at a time"
that's Darth code for "I want to pretend that this one thing right here is the sum total entirety of your position"
#facts
Would Darth use this same approach to destroy the Cumulative Case about Jesus?
I think that it's also an admission that Darth isn't smart enough to understand an argument. So he can only strawman 1 aspect of an argument, claim to defeat it (he Presupposes to have beaten it before it was stated) and then claim that a chair does stand upon 1 leg, while that was never the claim.
@@hillarysemails1615 he's the personification of dunning-kruger
Sasha did the same thing to JRobin a little bit ago, though, so it's not without merit.
To reduce this moment in time down to a single explanation, Darth was continually trying to narrow Ozzy's statements down to a single point when Ozzy kept clarifying that Darth's condensed version was missing key points. Darth would try to re-define Ozzy's comments and Ozzy would try to further explain how the Darth's characterizations were inaccurate. Now...put that on a 22 minute loop...and there you have it.
Darth's level of projection is unbounded. He's rude, obnoxious and belligerent in every interaction.
Wow! Darth is a very poor man. Very thing that he said about the other guy, he did all the time ! He’s the rudest person I every heard. I think an atheists should not let this fumbling, “obnoxious and belligerent” get any more time with good atheist!
And then he gets mad when someone like me gives him a taste of his own medicine
I call him "green diarrhea for brains"
I bet he has big boogers in his nose, too!
Dishonest darth tactic #543:
Step 1: Do not allow your opponent to enumerate their position. Force their points to seem like they are what individually leads to the conclusion that gods do not exist.
Step 2: kill the conversation at the first point and try to make it seem like its their fault for being 'rude'.
Step 3: Somehow talk about teenagers you've argued with being better than their conduct
Step 4: "This is what they do"
In my career, I worked with domestic violence perps and victims. I would be very concerned about any woman who might spend time alone with this Darth guy.
I love that Darth just starts using terms he hears his interlocutor say.
"Oooh, vacuous... that's a good smart word... I wanna use that word... I used that word... if fact, I'm the one who brought it up!"
18:45 "His whole philosophical world crumbles because whatever he invokes, in terms of contingency, doesn't come from anywhere"
telling
Obviously, the best part is the one where DD owns every point Ozy presented… after he kicked him out!
He surely is a master when arguing with his moronic strawmans of someone else’s arguments.
Ozy was as clear and precise as always. DD was quickly into his stuttering mode and struggling to maintain his usual script.
Great point.
This is what happens when a clown trips over his giant shoes. Darth fails again.
He even tries to ram home his script at thr end by repeating himself a few times. Gotta love the "It's vacuous since it doesn't explain anything" then he goes "well.... time to move on to a different part of the script since that breaks me"
All Gary needs to do is explain the mechanism god uses to “do” anything. If god makes someone float in midair: did he cancel gravity? Did he stretch space time? Does he negate mass? Just saying “my gawd done did it” explains nothing.
Godless Girl doesn’t think getting DD off script is a “win”, but it’s hard to see how that’s not true when the next thing that happens is DD cans his interlocutor then does an unearned victory lap after they’re gone.
The dialogue tree is fascinating.
Whenever someone gives him an answer her doesn't like to his leading question, he says "I don't think you're understanding the question".
Ozzy just completely shut down the points, then throws a temper tantrum painting the opponent as "rude" and resorts to personal attacks, referring to them as trolling when they don't follow the narrative. Absolutely despicable.
‘God’ explains the origin of things’ …. no it doesn’t, it’s just an assertion. Where does saying ‘god’ have any explanatory powers in it? It has none.
I often can't handle these discussions with Dawkins and they make me queazy but I'm powerless to resist the "HEY, I'M TOM RABBITT!!!!" intro with that powerful recorder.
Nice to see some things don't change. Darth Dawkins over talking someone to then complain that their opponent is over talking them.
Wow....it took Dingdong nearly seven minutes before he started trying to find ways to escape and to grenade the conversation....he must have just had some warm milk or something.
Ozy handled him brilliantly.
And then Dingdong tried to pretend it wasn’t him who muted Ozy....what a joke
This was like watching a ballet with Nijinsky opposite a farm animal on roller skates.
Darth gets worse every year he does this.
Poor dear is getting old, isn't he?
Being in the room when the conversation happened, chat was not on Darth's side. Most could see just how bad-faith his tactics were.
Oz gives everyone a blueprint on how to handle a conversation with darthdickhead. Hold to your points and don't allow him to redefine your position. He does that shit all the time. He keeps restating shit in different ways that is different from what you said and then tries to u-turn back to his script.
The script is the reason these conversations are always derailed . Always.....
The smarter you are the further it pulls him away from the script. Thus the sharper the u-turn will be and the less sense it will make....
He tries to be sneaky about it too. Adding in a single word that flips the answer to what he wants. Always call that shit out immediately. He can only argue on script and anything else is too much for his little mind.
@@oxidize11 Honestly he isn't very smart. He doesn't do well when he is on the back foot.
It's strange the different combinations of attributes that let people be this way.
Very nice. Ozy did as good as can be done v DD and the mods. He absolutely would not allow the shift of the burden of proof, while maintaining his position, and offering reason for it.
Ozzy was neither rude or dishonest...that's simply projection from Darth, due to his inability to completely straw man Ozzy. What an absolute coward.
Yea all Darth does is project his own behavior when he gets beat.
@@davids11131113 lmao, kettle meet black
@@icanfartloud What are you talking about? What’s the context?
@@icanfartloudclassy name
Hey Darth, if you do not want the concept of an ultimate mind as an explanation for everything to be vacuous then you need to explain how this mind brings everything into existence. If you cannot do this then saying a mind did it is vacuous. This isn't rocket science.
Ramen to that. Hail his noodley goodness.
"This isn't rocket science." Except that we're talking about Darth here!
yeah hardly different than pantheism. A disembodied mind would effectively be what? An invisible force that produces the laws of nature?
@@markvonwisco7369 which means the correct quote is 'this isn't rocket surgery' if it's in Darthistani.
“You can wait til I’m down”. That’s just it. He’s never done. He pretend he’s listening but he’s just waiting to run his next question after mischaracterizing his interlocutor. Then he commits mod abuse.
Darth could see he was not going to win this and immediately found reasons to kick him. What a weasel. But then you have to be to be a "believer" because ultimately there's no justification.
Darth: i understand there will be some overtalking in a debate.
Me: yeah, and 9/10 its YOU who interupt. Then cries about that 1/10.. 🤦♂️
Ozzy kept repeating over and over again that his viewpoint is provisional and Darth kept purposely smuggling in ‘necessity’ 7 times. Ugh!!!!
Because that's a category error fallacy on Ozy's end. God is a non-contingent, paradigm-level claim, meaning it's not a provisional claim. One either affirms or denies God's existence. Same for any other metaphysical framework.
@@lightbeforethetunnelpost ur address please
@lightbeforethetunnel
"God is a non-contingent, paradigm-level claim..."
So, what?
Presuppy pleading - Desperately repeating the same incantations over and over again, trying to manifest a new reality into existence...
...and failing to do so, over and over again.
Y'all are the SovCits of apologetics.
@@Petticca You asked so what? Uh, well it's relevant because it's not possible to be neutral or withhold judgment about non-contingent claims.
@@Petticca So the only options to choose from for non-contingencies are:
1. Necessarily true, or
2. Necessarily false
(No third option of neutrality or withholding judgment)
God does not exist because...
I lack the necessary epistemic justification to make the claim that God does not exist, which is why I don't hold that position. My position is that I lack the necessary epistemic justification to affirm that a god does exist. Until such time as sufficient epistemic justification can be provided (to affirm that a god does, or no gods do exist) I will continue to hold my current position.
Great to see Ozzy back in action. His old videos are worth a watch.
This is almost as much fun as Malpass.
More fun than Malpass. Oozy gets right to the point and doesn’t waiver.
@@MarkLeBay agree..Malpass is a bit of a navel gazer
@@bradchervel5202 I like Malpass, but not in an interaction with a deceitful manipulator like Darth.
@@MarkLeBay I went back and listened to his interactions and they were quite good
@@MarkLeBay just due to the long format Malpass got a lot more of the argument out on the table
"Notice how blah blah... notice how blah blah". Ďarth talks a great fight... once his opponent has been booted from the room. lolol
"I'm listening" is one of the biggest whoppers Darth has ever told in a long, long career filled with them.
Wow, I can’t believe this conversation went as far as it did. It’s shocking that Darth allowed Ozzy to own him with reason & critical thinking. Anytime anyone attempts to do that, they’re usually punted within a minute or two. This was an embarrassing own for Darth… 🤦🏼♂️
It is because Darth was not experiencing an imbalance in his brain chemicals at that point, and was not chasing a 'win' in order to generate the needed chemicals. When his depression kicks in, he needs quick successive wins. That is when he will see the finish line retreat into the distance, and kick his opponent for a weaker one.
This is an older conversation. In the past, Darth's behavior was less noticeable as that of an addict. His condition worsens as time passes.
Darth losing these conversations is why he goes nuclear today.
He learned being nice means he loses
@@Perfict1 Older compared to what? This is on Clubhouse, so it can't be too old compared to some of Darth's stuff.
@@830toAwesome
Perhaps I was confused, this conversation seemed very similar to one that I recall from, maybe a couple years ago. However, as you have pointed out, there are considerable clues that suggest it is of more recent origins. I also do not have a hard time believing that Darth could have very much the same conversation with the same person, a couple of years apart. So, my mistake, and thank you for the correction.
I’ve talked with Oz. I like his positions. Very much like my own. EDIT: Darth got owned. He overtalks and interrupts - then kicks. Chickenshit. He knew he was getting owned.
I sometimes wonder if DD’s narcissism is so strong that he doesn’t consciously realize that he’s being owned, because that’s not a possibility in his world?
Does no one else notice the slight of hand Gary does with conflating the ontological claim “god either exists or he doesn’t” and the epistemic claim “you either believe god exists or not”?
Everyone notices it. Except Darth and minions.
That’s his entire shtick! The mixing of ontology & epistemology allows for the muddy waters Darth needs to deliver his script… 🤦🏼♂️
Oh definitely and he’s been called out many times on his conflating ontology and epistemology, but it’s an integral part of his script so Darth just acts like he doesn’t, he just ignores it.
Darth needs a strawman false dichotomy to move his script forward to pin the burden of proof on those that oppose him. Either "god" exists or not is a true dichotomy. But darth uses a generic "ground of all being" definition but he's actually arguing for a VERY SPECIFIC god with VERY SPECIFIC necessary properties. It's very possible that there IS a ground of all being that secures reality...and ISNT the specific god of the bible. The only question you should ask a presup is "is it possible you're wrong about what you claim is the source of Intelligibility". They must answer no. They must say they have absolute knowledge, can not be wrong, and it's been revealed through supernatural revelation. At this point you know you've exposed they are not an honest interlocutor and you politely decline to engage
Darth was looking for the parachute from the very beginning. Its hilarious to see Darth trying to use his teenage check this box and only this Box with someone of Ozys standing. What a total joke
Hey. Good to see Ozzy is still around.
Good on you Ozzy for taking on Darth. This was a surprise. Fantastic show Tom!
Yes it was!
@@TomRabbittt And you were nude!!!!😂😂😂
Darth overtalked Ozy more times than the inverse, and there is also the distinct difference in that when Ozy interrupted it was when Darth misrepresented Ozy's position and when Darth interrupted it's when Ozy was answering Darth's questions. Darth is the one being rude here, he pretty much is always the one being rude and extremely obnoxious. Darth's conception of "not being rude" is "don't you dare interrupt me ever, but allow me to interrupt you whenever I like it".
Darth must get an ego trip off interrupting people. He makes it a point to always interrupt, even with short answers.
From listening to the debate, it sounded like Ozy said to state that whatever is metaphysically prime is a mind or is not a mind are equally vacuous. That statement or characterization doesn’t explain anything either way. Scientists describe a process that produced the universe. They describe how that process is (believed or understood) to go from A to B to C. They also describe what they aren’t sure about. That there doesn’t appear to be a mind in -that- process is in reference to the -process- and how the elements -of- that process work. Ozy is saying there could even be a mind -within- that process but that mind would have to be established like the other elements and how that mind works with those elements would need to be shown too. DD didn’t, couldn’t, hear that distinction. He was too busy pushing Ozy into DD’s script.
Saying "god" is not an explanatory hypothesis. See... Ozy gets it. This claim of a god lacks explanatory power.
Darths huge Achilles heel….his assertion explains nothing. Darth knows this so that’s why he panic muted Alex when he said ‘look we can say ‘god farted’ …. MUTE then lecture about misbehaving so badly and all.
Everything has an explanation for its existence, either in the necessity of its nature, or in an external cause.
@@mybad2603 If the "nature" is necessary, then it sounds like the "god" would be contingent on it, so shouldn't you be worshipping the "nature", rather than the "god"?
@@mybad2603 so? 'I don't know' is a valid position to take while awaiting evidence or sufficient information where we don't yet have it. What's your point.
@@JosephKano If you don't know what the casual origin is tell me how did you rule god out?
if you say there's no evidence you're stating that nothing has it's causal origin in god and since you don't know what the causal origin is of everything that begins then how did you rule god out? Stating that there's no evidence is just simply restating the same claim. Circular reasoning.
Love how Darth has to spend 5 mins explaining to his minions to save face!
This time was really bad circular explaining too. Like "It's not vacuous since he needs grounding so he needs grounding or else it's vacuous, but it's not since there's grounding so it's grounded." It was blatantly bad and dumber than usual.
the legion is a sad place
Darths ‘cope closet’ I call it.
Darths greatest strength is arguing with strawmen. He boots a perfectly competent and reasonable person wap won't suffer Darth's interruptions and mischaracterizations.
I love how darth just completely ignores ozzy to attempt to keep him on his script. its very impressive almost.
*_"There are good reasons to believe Bigfoot doesn't exist"_*
Whatever those reasons are, Darth, apply them to God and you can answer your own question.
darth, is panicking again, when he continues the same question
Great to hear Ozy back in discussion!
Every debate I've seen, Darth says "I've been nothing but polite and cordial", but I've only ever seen him talk like a condescending prick. Zero self awareness.
Glad you caught this. Didn't think I'd get to see Darth owned by Ozzy a second time 🤭
Ozzy slaughtered the famous script-reader. This doesn't mean the script-reader sometime in the near future will shamelessly talk about when he defeated Ozzy in this conversation. The only defeating ability the script-reader has is the mute button.
@matthewphilip1977
We are talking about a tactical script, not a word-by-word script, of course. You don't understand the difference?
Ozy hit the nail on the head in the first couple of minutes
"Yes IF God is necessary then God WOULD be necessary"
Darth keeps trying to have the conversation 'in a world where God is necessary how can their be no God'
When the conversation is 'IS a God necessary'
It's a dishonest tactic. They're basically saying "if god is real how can he be fake" then expect you to play along. "In my view god exists, prove he doesn't." You try to show that's not the conversation and they launch nukes.
I didn't realize he was still around.
Ozymandias did phenomenally well. That's the most concerned I've heard darth
Alex clearly wasn’t ‘very misbehaved’ at all, Darth just knew he was getting BTFO’d so he pulled the eject handle and bailed then went on his standard NPD narcissistic personality disorder monologue claiming how everyone surely sees Darth was in the right here, m’kay? And this is why he has his dumb Misfit Toy club. It’s so pathetic.
Back to the classics…but… wait!!!!!
Ozy clearly states what he believes then Darth keeps asking for what Ozy doesn’t believe, how thick is Darth
So thick. In fact so thick that he must be missing all his notes he used to keep on discord. He’s been bitch slapped by so many atheists he can’t keep track of them all. Great to see Clobberhouse offers a whole new platform to gang rape Van Tillian apologetics.
Very !
Ozy rolled up Darths script and rammed it up Darths ass he panicked and ran…..and I love the aftershows where he pleads to his dumbass minions about how he totally won that and his opponent was so poorly behaved….what a damn clown.
Great demonstration of how Darth and the Misfit Toys presup game is nothing and easy to beat as long as you don’t allow them to drag you down their rabbit holes.
‘I did not say god does not exist’
‘Okay Al Al AlAlex? God does not exist becaaauuuse??’
Darth deserves absolutely zero respect at all what an asshole.
They all have nothing in their life so they cling to these dishonest debates for some pathetic ego trip. It's sad and weird.
Darth getting pwned lol
If one stipulatively defines god as the ultimate reason for everything, one cannot at the same time assert that that’s the explanation. Nicely debunked by Ozzie!
I think the main problem people have talking to him is when the middle of their sentence interrupts the beginning of his.
😂😂😂 that's a brilliant way to put it
Literally never seen Ozy be this outraged in conversation and he's utterly justified given the conditions under which he was trying to communicate.
Darth''s ritual post-boot bad faith reframing is so goddamned funny if you're familiar with Ozy and how he generally comports himself in discussion.
It's a cope session since he knows he lost the conversation and has to reframe it in his small egotistical mind.
@@oxidize11 He does it literally everytime. Sometimes if he's getting manhandled badly enough, he'll stop in the middle of the conversation to try and reframe the audiences' experience and impressions. "I'm actually embarrassed for you about how bad you're doing/everyone knows you're drowning philosophically" etc.
@@alexcartagena1983 , I've seen JRobin do it when his opponent has to step away from the mic/talk a second. "Okay, so, what's going on here is..." desperate to control the narrative and soothe cognitive dissonance.
All god claims are contingent.
You lose Darth.
This was wonderful....more of Ozzy please 👍
Whats the value of an explanation that has no explanatory power.
I enjoyed this. Not only did Oswald expertly cut through Darth's "vacuous" claims, but the debate didn't follow the usual pattern of beta-male submission to his abuse. Indeed, when Oswald said that he wouldn't tolerate being muted, I knew we had a winner.
Yeah I enjoyed it too. I'm trying to have less of Darth's content where it's just the same thing we've heard a million times. However, that's most of his interactions.
@@TomRabbittt True. In fact, after Oswald got kicked, I stopped the video. I have zero interest in Darth's post-debate delusions of victory.
There's one thing i don't get, apologist are always trying to prove the opposition wrong like if that will prove their position right by default, they have to make a case. Even if an atheist have a burden of proof, even if they show the atheist is wrong that doesn't prove they are right automatically.
An honest apologist is an oxymoron i guess.
Proof they have a small mind
There are religious apologists which I understand these days they need to make some excuses for religion trying to get people onboard….then there’s presup which is apologetics for sociopaths.
@@davids11131113Yes that sounds accurate.
Also, I can't remember a time when DD has never uttered a hypocritical accusation to his opponent, and especially in the Legion of Doom.
You can hear the panic setting in at 7:30 or so when Darth starts complaining about overtalking. But simply to shut down the metaphysical mumbo jumbo by saying that positing something isn’t an explanation is great - it’s worth keeping in the playbook for dealing with presups.
Darth is a pathetic coward. If the talk isn't going his way he kicks his interlocutor using the outrageous lie that they were being rude.
It's hilarious to me that Darth is just laying out a blueprint for defeating his own shitty argument here. Darth claims to be a coherentist and he relies on the "virtuously" circular nature of an always truth revealing omni-god justifying revelation and revelation justifying an always truth revealing omni-god. But if we were to use Darth's own tactics here, and not allow him to present his full argument at one, he'll be forced to just present his always truth revealing omni-god and without "getting distracted by other stuff" he won't be able to justify that omni-god, and of course when (if) we move on to the second leg of Darth's justification (revelation from the omni-God) Darth can't justify that either because the omni-God has already been dismissed when evaluating the first leg of the argument. Don't get me wrong, Darth still can't actually get the epistemic justification from that mess that he claims to, even when allowed to argue however he wants, but if forced to endure the same nonsense he forced upon Ozy, there's no way he gets his argument through. So again this is just another demonstration that Darth's arguments are garbage and the only thing he has going for him is rhetoric and mod powers.
There's an almost limitless way to break the presup script. It's probably the worst argument out there.
@@oxidize11 Yeah, I just love the irony that Darth's tactic specifically targets his own stupid version of the stupid apologetic.
The issue is because atheists can't refute God so they're looking for atributes and anything that can give them any chance to make a strawman
If the Jesus bloke/god came back and entered the room, all Darth would do is yank his Jewish beard and kick him.
🤣 nice.
Reminds me once I referred to Jesus as ‘Jerusalem Slim’, Darth was lurking in the room he immediately kicked me.
Ozzy is a cut above. Darth not so much.
16:52 athiest tactic? Lol wow Darth has mastered this Tactic.
Darth no doubt knows Ozy is a thoughtful person. Hilarious how he shoehorns everyone into the 'dishonest or disruptive atheist' position
And rude and obnoxious. Ozy couldn’t have been more polite . What does Darth expect when he continually misrepresents someone’s position.
Because it poisons the well when speaking to atheists. As long as he can establish that "all atheists are rude and dishonest", he can then justify his punting of anyone who gets the upper hand with him (which is most ppl).
He's just pathetic, and a waste to talk with
17:32 ...and the ball cradling begins. The only sadder than Darth is a Darth sycophant!
Darths narcissism stroking session which is important….he’d just taken a huge L and needed to make sure his Misfit Toys were onboard still, because they’re fatherless rejects of society.
@@davids11131113 "Darth and the Island of Misfit Toys" is the worst Christmas special ever!
I claim X.
To be clear, you are claiming Y.
No, I'm claiming X.
You are claiming Y, are we clear?
🤣
Are we clear? M’kay? Good! NOW!
Dearth of ideas is the IMAX of projection!
This is funny that this is the “new and improved” Darth. He still can’t stay off of the kick button and figure out how to have a polite discourse with someone. He’d rather pontificate more than ever on rudeness and obnoxiousness which is his exact modus operandi.
Darth got his butt handed to him. He continued the argument once the guy was booted in a poor attempt to save face.
Darth panicked so hard and ran from here it was great.
Haha, again why does anyone let him start with ''god'' ? The god is the question, not the answer. He is defeated in the first ten seconds and can go no further until he presents his god. Easiest bullshitter out there to just laugh and laugh at....
That guy is good.
Darth… the adult version of “I’m taking my ball and going home 😢”
Atheist 10- DumbleDork - 0
DD… every single one of his accusations is a confession. Down to acting like a rude asshole.
Darth didn't boot him from the room because he was rude; he kicked him because he was getting his ass kicked.
I love how you don't even have to comment on these, Gary's awful behavior just speaks for itself
Darth is ever the professional victim.
Make this video sticky. It’s a perfect illustration of all Darth’s fallacies.
It’s a great demonstration of how to handle Darth, just keep saying he’s just making baseless assertions and his script goes up in flames, PLUS not caring about his bullying tell Darth you’re not putting up with his abuse so go ahead and kick me if you have to, which he does have to.
gary always revert to the "rude" position to end the debate when someone puts up a sound argument as that ozy guy did, it's getting old.
""Tom Rabbit likes to record these""
DD wants so desperately to reason his god into existence. Ozy did the good gourd's work, DD never stood a chance.
He’s a gourd believer
Dang, this Darth guy got laid out and God disproven. Great job Ozymandias!
Do you really think none of Darth's minions noticed that he got Ozy's position exactly backwards when accusing him of saying it would not be vacuous to say that what was metaphysically primary was not a mind. At 12:20, Ozy says just the opposite of that. I bet at least one the minions knew, but were too cowered to contradict their leader.
They notice, they just don't care
“Behave or I will mute you.” Darth cosplaying Yahweh. Haha