After 2+ years of road tubeless, I made a rule: Max of 1 set of tubeless wheels in the house at a time. They get the most mileage by far, but 5 other wheelsets on various bikes all use tubes, and will continue to forever. What about you?
I went for tubless as there's a lot of stuff that can puncture my wheels when biking to work. So the amount of preparation/maintenance for tubless is worth it for those days that when you're in a emergency and trying to avoid getting late to work is worth it.
I tell folks all the time that tubeless is AWESOME if you're a high mileage rider (Randonneur) who uses one primary bike and wheelset. Set it up with new tires, top off the sealant once halfway through the life of the tire, and you're pretty much good to go for a full season of pain-free brevets and other long rides.
I ride Conti GP5000s with tubes on my long rides and don't have a problem, until I start riding the tires past the wear indicators. For me, tubes are the way to go
I really like your observation that tubeless is most appropriate for 65psi or less, or 30mm or larger. I hadn't thought of it in those terms, but I completely agree with you there! I can't imagine anything more frustrating than getting a puncture in my 25mm tubeless tire (at 85 psi) and having it just spew sealant all over the place without sealing! I'm running 28mm tires (which measure out to 30mm on my rims) at 65-70 psi on my road bike, so right on the edge. I did notice that I got a puncture the other day which sealed itself, which was actually very reassuring. I actually now run tubeless on both my road bike and my gravel bike. However, my rain bike and my single speed will continue to run tubes as I don't ride them nearly as often and I don't want to have the hassle of keeping them topped off (and I want to avoid having the sealant pool up on one side of the tire) Although it might seem like you went overboard with your "required accessories" list, I actually have pretty much all of that stuff, so yeah.
I tried tubeless, was expensive, messy, constantly putting air in. Switched back to TPU tubes with Mr Tuffy, I have not had a flat in years, I ride 20,000 Km a year or more. For me tubeless just not worth the hassle.
Totally off topic, but your Kawartha Dairy shirt takes me back more years than I care to admit. That was a classic ice-cream stop on the way back from canoe trips.
First thanks your channel was one of the reasons I got into randoneuring, did my first brevet in August 200k and loved it sold my gravel bike to buy a dedicated rando bike. I’ve been waiting in y Bilenky tour life club racer frame I should be getting it in the next couple of weeks I’m still deciding on tubes or tubless I have some GP 5000 allseason in a 35. I think I’m going to go with either TPU or latex tubes just for the Faff tubless. I run tubless on my triathlon bike and it’s a pain in the but especially if you let sit for a month or two and the tires go flat
Wow, happy to hear the channel helped you get into randonneuring! I hope you enjoy progressing through the sport. I tell myself that if the sealant dries up, I haven't been riding enough. In practice, I don't ride enough haha. Need to set a phone alarm for 3 months instead of trying to remember when to top up. The 5000 AS sounds like a lovely tire though. A bit tougher than the S, so you should be comfortable with either tubes or tubeless.
As a wax enjoyer, it is truly wonderful for daily use but it still has some issues on very long rides. UFO drip had about 200km in an application, and Molten Speed wax has about 300-350 in good weather, meaning reapplication is required on most brevets. Either need to pack a new chain in a drop bag when that service is provided or have a suitably long sleep to let a drip wax top up mostly dry each night. We really need a quick dry drip wax solution to make it a reasonable choice for events of 400km or more, and shorter events that have a spat of bad weather.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I just bring a second chain if I think I'll need it, even if a drop bag isn't available. Also Silca offers a wax additive called the Endurance Chip which can be added to your hot melt pot to boost the wax longevity
Thank you for handling a topic flying around in my mind. Next I'll try to find a rolling resistance comparison between GP5000 tubed/tubless. A couple of weeks ago I rode from Helsinki to Tromsø (2.200k) and punctured my tubes three times during the first 1.200k and not once during the last 1.000k.
Tubeless is significantly better RR than conventional butyl tubes. Latex and TPU tubes are pretty close to tubeless in terms of performance. Aerocoach has more testing data on this.
This was already done by bicyclerollingresistance (Search Continental Grand Prix 5000 S TR Tubeless Vs Inner Tubes: Rolling Resistance Tests). As Andrew says tubeless wins
Check the links in the video description to Bicycle Rolling Resistance. One test had latex and tubeless roughly the same. The other had fast TPU and Latex roughly equal, and Conti Race 28 Light butyl tubes only 1 watt slower than those. Top choices from each category are roughly equal, but TPU and butyl can be dogs if slow models are chosen.
I use a tubeless set-up on the same tire brand and size shown in the video. It is an incredibly fast tire. I do one other thing, though, that almost no one else does - and to be honest, I don't know why more randonneurs don't do it . . . I have a road-specific insert installed in my tubeless tire. The insert works as a run-flat back-up in the event of a catastrophic tubeless failure. As a result, I do not carry a spare tube. Effectively, my "spare tube" is pre-installed in the tire. It is a bullet-proof system while also being relatively fast/efficient, ideal for long rides. I've completed a 1200km event on this set-up while biking 6000 to 8000 miles per year for the last couple years.
I've seen those, but couldn't get past the fear of being unable to remove the tire for replacement on the roadside if needed. Thanks for sharing, I may need to look into how that has developed recently.
@@overbikedrandonneuring It would be incredibly difficult to remove and replace the tire on the side of the road. There are special tools to get the tire on/off the rim with the insert in place and I don't carry those tools with me becuase there's no need to take the tire off. You just continue to ride with the insert in place if you get a puncture that the sealant and/or plugs cannot fix.
I'm on 28mm tires, which is the max that fit in my older bike. I run tubeless. I switched because I killed 5-6 latex tubes with slow punctures, probably from broken glass. So far, I believe I have had at least two punctures self-seal, although I've also had two sidewall cuts that wouldn't seal (Vittoria Corsa Pros, so I blame the sidewalls rather than tubeless) and a couple punctures that sealed with a plug. My pressures are in the mid 60s. I'm not clearly convinced that they're superior. 30mm and up I'd definitely go tubeless first.
Yeah, the sidewall cuts is a curious problem. With tubes, I would sometimes keep the tire despite sidewall damage, even when it should probably be replaced. Tubeless doesn't allow it if it won't seal. In a way it protects me from myself haha.
@@overbikedrandonneuring To be fair, I think that sidewall cuts can be patched from inside the tire. Glue a patch on the cut, basically. I haven't personally done this yet.
with availability of inexpensive TPU tubes [for ROAD tire sizes] that are very light, and have low rolling resistance, I’m getting the equivalent of running sealant and tubeless. I carry two spare TPU tubes in case I get a puncture. Nothing against tubeless and I see the merits but I ride with road tire pressures running at 65 psi and under $45 for four TPU tubes, I haven’t felt the need to switch to tubeless yet for the 20-30 mile distances I ride at this time.
I just have to much anxiety about having to put in a tube roadside. My GP 5k's were difficult enough to fit already, supposedly tubeless tires are even worse. Have you seen "Cyclingabout"s analysis of the best sealants? Might interest you.
I've had to do it a few times, but only with Pro One TLE tires. If you accept that it is a mess, it's not a big deal. They fit snug, but are manageable with levers. My GP5K STR were rock solid their whole life span. I love Cycling About content. I'll go check his sealant video. Thanks!
@@overbikedrandonneuring Tube type Pro Ones are the worst tires I've ever had to fit. Even after 1000km of riding they were almost impossible to put on my rims (moved them to another bike). Will probably retire them soonish before their EOL just because I'm scared of beng stranded with them
@Paksusuoli95 It all depends on the rim and tyre combination. I don't think tubeless are necessarily worse anymore either. Tubless offerings from pirelli, vittoria, and specalised all go on and off my brotanger rims easily for example, can normally do without a lever. Wouldn't go near GPs (clincher or tubeless) for this exact reason. Swap out and say goodbye to the anxiety!
@@pip119 Interesting experience. I use Farsports rims and have had a great experience with GP5000 and Schwalbe Pro One TLE. I suppose best fit tire varies by rim. I've heard some people describe Pirelli and Vittoria as being too loose of a fit to be confident. Bontrager rims have a long reputation for being tight fits though, so they must match well together.
One thing worth mentioning is that CO2 doesn’t play nicely with sealant. I note you displaying battery pumps in your video, which are fine with sealant.
That was a topic in my initial recording for the Cycplus pump video, but was a victim of editing. CO2 really seems like a race-only inflation solution.
I have to respectfully disagree with your portrayal of the downsides of tubeless tires. There's a bit of a steeper learning curve I suppose, but once you get it figured out, it's really more of a set and forget type of scenario. I've been running road tubeless for the past 5 years or so, and have always been able to use a standard floor pump to set up my tires. Stans also sells sealant in tiny bottles with spouts that are the perfect size for inserting into your valve stems, which eliminates mess. The best part is that I have yet to get a flat whereas running tubes on the same roads, I would have flats several times per year. Tubeless tires are sooo much more supple and reliable, I can't see any reason not to go for it if you already have a compatible wheelset.
I wonder if rim set and/or tubes makes the difference with floor pump. Some seem to have no problem, I've used tubeless for long time and rarely have success with floor pump and tend to use compressor for first installation. I have only sets on similar rims and haven't tried on anything other that I've used for ages. To me the the larges benefit of tubeless is having much less punctures. Sealant has always worked fine and sometimes I've only noticed after stopping a white spot indicating a puncture. Some times it has needed puncture spot down position for a short while. Never needed an inner tire that I carry as a backup. I don't race so most speed is not that important to me. I can keep the shape up with slower tires as well. I have no problem with any pressure, be it lower pressure with wider tires or normal pressure with thinner tires. I have found limitations in winter way below freezing point where any liquid tends to solidify. That is where I tend to run inner tubes as all year cyclist.
@@hoggifnot only does it make a difference I think it entirely determines how easy it is to get the tyre on and off and inflated. Most brands of rim and tyre seem to be trending better, maybe with the exception of GPs. But their clinchers are a nightmare too!
I'm all for respectful disagreement, so thanks for the comments. Accepting the downsides and the learning curve in exchange for better overall performance has simply been my experience though. I used only a floor pump for several sets of tire installs before one set finally forced me to get the booster bottle after exhausting my bag of tricks (no valve core, straps, soapy water). It's great, and makes the seating process a breeze. Wish I had done it sooner. Ruined a pair of cycling socks and almost lost a jersey soaked by sealant out on the road and had to clean the bike covered in sealant multiple times. 3 times I've had to install tubes (and sometimes a tire boot) roadside after sealant and tire worms failed. Still have sealant in nooks and crannies of my office chair wheels and stains on my floor mat from user-error incidents. All that said, I'm still happy to use tubeless on my primary set of wheels. Surely dozens of flats have been avoided. It's just not been all sunshine and rainbows. Cheers!
Tubeless on road 25mm/ 28mm tyres for 4 years (36,700km), and only 1 occasion where I had an issue. It was a sidewall tear, but held at 50psi with a plug. Not one flat. CO2 is death to TPU tubes, but works ok with some sealants. Faff? If you don't know what you're doing, all systrms involve faffing about. The new Tyreglider tool makes even hard to put on Tubeless tyres pretty much a 4 min job now. Refilling sealant at home makes zero mess [remove presta core squeeze in your 30-40ml via tube, valve at 5 or 7 o'clock position NO SPILL]. Way less time and money wasted, than tubes IMHO.
Glad to hear you have a good experience with it on narrow tires, but that is not universal. I've had 3 instances of needing to swap in tubes on the road and maybe half a dozen other punctures that wouldn't seal without getting off the bike and pointing the puncture downward. A few of these seals would break when trying to reinflate the tire to a usable pressure, like the thumbnail image. One batch of sealant reacted poorly with the inner layer of the tires and separated, rendering it useless. These problems were with 28c tires (30mm measured). Since moving to 30c (33mm measured) and ~57 PSI, it's been trouble free, aside from sidewall damage killing a tire early, but it would have killed a tube tire too. I prefer tubeless for a primary wheelset and recommend it despite the extra faff and expense over tubes, which are easily repaired and reused. Aside from tools, cores, and sealant, GP5000 and Pro One are 25% less expensive (locally) than GP5000STR and Pro One TLE respectively as well. It can have downsides and still be the best choice. I'll check in on that Tyreglider if I ever get a set of tight fitting tires.
@overbikedrandonneuring yeah, the lower pressures definitely seem better with tubeless sealing. Big tears/ punctures blow out above 70psi even with ample sealant - in my experience. Have been a fan of the Schwable Ones TLE too...Conti 5000s just not worth the 2x price.
I'm mainly a racer but i do like rhe occasional audax and I'm a tubeless guy, i wouldn't say that performance tires like GP5000 aren't good for Audaxs because they're the only tire i use for every type of riding
Yeah, I've almost always used race tires for randonneuring too, and they just make sense. There is a huge contingent of randonneurs who use slower, more robust tires though, and they are often the same people who would most benefit from a more efficient setup. I hope my videos can reach those folks and improve their experience.
Why would tubes be the obvious choice for slim tires ? Because I was wondering: are the sealing abilities of sealants limited by pressure, or by hoop stress ? In other words : could sealant actually plug holes at 90+ PSI on slim tires after all ?
I've had no problems with up to a bit over 100 psi with 23mm thin tires. Sometimes you may loose pressure or have to turn puncture point down and in extreme cases add air a couple times. Of course, if you have some very large hole (more like a rip), no way to seal it with sealant but I once had about 6mm (1/4") cut that sealed. It held only lower pressure than normal but enough to get me home.
At higher pressures, sealant may be blasted out before it can coagulate to seal the hole. If you live in an area subject to thorns (lots of pinhole punctures) tubeless may still be worth it, but if your punctures are more likely to be tears from road debris which are harder to seal, then maybe not.
I am a rando dinosaur. I still have tubes. I hear a lot of horror stories about people trying to change a tubeless tire. A trick I do especially for winter time when riding through a lot of debris, is to put a slime tube inside my tires. That way I have the possibility for self-sealing and can still change a flat by myself.
Great questions! I believe sealing ability is linked to mostly pressure rather than hoop stress. If a hole is 2mm (.0031 sq. inches), then at 100 PSI the air would exert .31 lbs of pressure on the sealant. Having a wider tire means you can maintain a given hoop stress with lower air pressure, which would benefit sealant performance. I would guess the experience given by @hoggif to be normal for slim tires, but I would call that unacceptable performance and a failed system. When I was using 70 PSI and 28c (30mm measured) tires, several holes would seal on the road losing some pressure, but then give way at home when reinflating the tire. Testing by Fiets (German) found 8/14 sealants failed to hold when reinflated to 100 PSI on a road tire. This is with new tires and fresh sealant. Degredation over time should be considered too.
@@PBPkitty That is a neat trick. Do you put it through the valve of the inner tube? I had tried that a while back, but the sealant I used was pretty poor quality.
Good question! I usually ran race style tires before moving to tubeless, so speed performance is about the same, but with fewer flats. On the few occasions I used slow road tires like OEM brand tires, Clement Strada, or Schwalbe Kojak, there was a noticeable penalty. Anyone moving from something like a Gatorskin to a fast tubeless tire with feel a noticeable improvement.
I would need to flat about 4 times per day every day for your argument to make sense if I swapped to Gatorskins, for example. As it stands, I flat less with tubeless race tires than when I ran thicker road tires featuring a puncture belt with tubes. And they ride great!
After 2+ years of road tubeless, I made a rule: Max of 1 set of tubeless wheels in the house at a time. They get the most mileage by far, but 5 other wheelsets on various bikes all use tubes, and will continue to forever. What about you?
I went for tubless as there's a lot of stuff that can puncture my wheels when biking to work. So the amount of preparation/maintenance for tubless is worth it for those days that when you're in a emergency and trying to avoid getting late to work is worth it.
I tell folks all the time that tubeless is AWESOME if you're a high mileage rider (Randonneur) who uses one primary bike and wheelset. Set it up with new tires, top off the sealant once halfway through the life of the tire, and you're pretty much good to go for a full season of pain-free brevets and other long rides.
A battery pump and two TPU tubes with metal valves is a sweet spot IMO.
which tpu brand do you suggest? I'm yet to find a tpu for gravel tires with good reviews..
I ride Conti GP5000s with tubes on my long rides and don't have a problem, until I start riding the tires past the wear indicators. For me, tubes are the way to go
I really like your observation that tubeless is most appropriate for 65psi or less, or 30mm or larger. I hadn't thought of it in those terms, but I completely agree with you there! I can't imagine anything more frustrating than getting a puncture in my 25mm tubeless tire (at 85 psi) and having it just spew sealant all over the place without sealing! I'm running 28mm tires (which measure out to 30mm on my rims) at 65-70 psi on my road bike, so right on the edge. I did notice that I got a puncture the other day which sealed itself, which was actually very reassuring.
I actually now run tubeless on both my road bike and my gravel bike. However, my rain bike and my single speed will continue to run tubes as I don't ride them nearly as often and I don't want to have the hassle of keeping them topped off (and I want to avoid having the sealant pool up on one side of the tire)
Although it might seem like you went overboard with your "required accessories" list, I actually have pretty much all of that stuff, so yeah.
I tried tubeless, was expensive, messy, constantly putting air in. Switched back to TPU tubes with Mr Tuffy, I have not had a flat in years, I ride 20,000 Km a year or more. For me tubeless just not worth the hassle.
Totally off topic, but your Kawartha Dairy shirt takes me back more years than I care to admit. That was a classic ice-cream stop on the way back from canoe trips.
It's a lovely area and great ice cream! I've heard so much about it, and my first visit there this summer lived up to the expectations. 5 stars.
Ill stick to gp 5000s with quality butyl tubes
First thanks your channel was one of the reasons I got into randoneuring, did my first brevet in August 200k and loved it sold my gravel bike to buy a dedicated rando bike. I’ve been waiting in y Bilenky tour life club racer frame I should be getting it in the next couple of weeks I’m still deciding on tubes or tubless I have some GP 5000 allseason in a 35. I think I’m going to go with either TPU or latex tubes just for the Faff tubless. I run tubless on my triathlon bike and it’s a pain in the but especially if you let sit for a month or two and the tires go flat
Wow, happy to hear the channel helped you get into randonneuring! I hope you enjoy progressing through the sport.
I tell myself that if the sealant dries up, I haven't been riding enough. In practice, I don't ride enough haha. Need to set a phone alarm for 3 months instead of trying to remember when to top up. The 5000 AS sounds like a lovely tire though. A bit tougher than the S, so you should be comfortable with either tubes or tubeless.
Wax vs oil isn't a debate though, wax is the clear and absolute winner.
As a wax enjoyer, it is truly wonderful for daily use but it still has some issues on very long rides. UFO drip had about 200km in an application, and Molten Speed wax has about 300-350 in good weather, meaning reapplication is required on most brevets. Either need to pack a new chain in a drop bag when that service is provided or have a suitably long sleep to let a drip wax top up mostly dry each night. We really need a quick dry drip wax solution to make it a reasonable choice for events of 400km or more, and shorter events that have a spat of bad weather.
@@overbikedrandonneuring I just bring a second chain if I think I'll need it, even if a drop bag isn't available. Also Silca offers a wax additive called the Endurance Chip which can be added to your hot melt pot to boost the wax longevity
Thank you for handling a topic flying around in my mind. Next I'll try to find a rolling resistance comparison between GP5000 tubed/tubless.
A couple of weeks ago I rode from Helsinki to Tromsø (2.200k) and punctured my tubes three times during the first 1.200k and not once during the last 1.000k.
Tubeless is significantly better RR than conventional butyl tubes.
Latex and TPU tubes are pretty close to tubeless in terms of performance.
Aerocoach has more testing data on this.
This was already done by bicyclerollingresistance (Search Continental Grand Prix 5000 S TR Tubeless Vs Inner Tubes: Rolling Resistance Tests). As Andrew says tubeless wins
Check the links in the video description to Bicycle Rolling Resistance. One test had latex and tubeless roughly the same. The other had fast TPU and Latex roughly equal, and Conti Race 28 Light butyl tubes only 1 watt slower than those. Top choices from each category are roughly equal, but TPU and butyl can be dogs if slow models are chosen.
I use a tubeless set-up on the same tire brand and size shown in the video. It is an incredibly fast tire. I do one other thing, though, that almost no one else does - and to be honest, I don't know why more randonneurs don't do it . . . I have a road-specific insert installed in my tubeless tire. The insert works as a run-flat back-up in the event of a catastrophic tubeless failure. As a result, I do not carry a spare tube. Effectively, my "spare tube" is pre-installed in the tire. It is a bullet-proof system while also being relatively fast/efficient, ideal for long rides. I've completed a 1200km event on this set-up while biking 6000 to 8000 miles per year for the last couple years.
hi, curious about the insert, never heard of it. can you elaborate what it is and where to find guide on how to install them?
I've seen those, but couldn't get past the fear of being unable to remove the tire for replacement on the roadside if needed. Thanks for sharing, I may need to look into how that has developed recently.
@@overbikedrandonneuring It would be incredibly difficult to remove and replace the tire on the side of the road. There are special tools to get the tire on/off the rim with the insert in place and I don't carry those tools with me becuase there's no need to take the tire off. You just continue to ride with the insert in place if you get a puncture that the sealant and/or plugs cannot fix.
I'm on 28mm tires, which is the max that fit in my older bike. I run tubeless. I switched because I killed 5-6 latex tubes with slow punctures, probably from broken glass. So far, I believe I have had at least two punctures self-seal, although I've also had two sidewall cuts that wouldn't seal (Vittoria Corsa Pros, so I blame the sidewalls rather than tubeless) and a couple punctures that sealed with a plug. My pressures are in the mid 60s. I'm not clearly convinced that they're superior. 30mm and up I'd definitely go tubeless first.
Yeah, the sidewall cuts is a curious problem. With tubes, I would sometimes keep the tire despite sidewall damage, even when it should probably be replaced. Tubeless doesn't allow it if it won't seal. In a way it protects me from myself haha.
@@overbikedrandonneuring To be fair, I think that sidewall cuts can be patched from inside the tire. Glue a patch on the cut, basically. I haven't personally done this yet.
with availability of inexpensive TPU tubes [for ROAD tire sizes] that are very light, and have low rolling resistance, I’m getting the equivalent of running sealant and tubeless. I carry two spare TPU tubes in case I get a puncture. Nothing against tubeless and I see the merits but I ride with road tire pressures running at 65 psi and under $45 for four TPU tubes, I haven’t felt the need to switch to tubeless yet for the 20-30 mile distances I ride at this time.
Not woth the faf. Latex or TPU are just fine.
I just have to much anxiety about having to put in a tube roadside. My GP 5k's were difficult enough to fit already, supposedly tubeless tires are even worse.
Have you seen "Cyclingabout"s analysis of the best sealants? Might interest you.
I've had to do it a few times, but only with Pro One TLE tires. If you accept that it is a mess, it's not a big deal. They fit snug, but are manageable with levers. My GP5K STR were rock solid their whole life span.
I love Cycling About content. I'll go check his sealant video. Thanks!
@@overbikedrandonneuring Tube type Pro Ones are the worst tires I've ever had to fit. Even after 1000km of riding they were almost impossible to put on my rims (moved them to another bike). Will probably retire them soonish before their EOL just because I'm scared of beng stranded with them
Sealant video is really good, I was going to suggest it also.
@Paksusuoli95 It all depends on the rim and tyre combination. I don't think tubeless are necessarily worse anymore either. Tubless offerings from pirelli, vittoria, and specalised all go on and off my brotanger rims easily for example, can normally do without a lever. Wouldn't go near GPs (clincher or tubeless) for this exact reason. Swap out and say goodbye to the anxiety!
@@pip119 Interesting experience. I use Farsports rims and have had a great experience with GP5000 and Schwalbe Pro One TLE. I suppose best fit tire varies by rim. I've heard some people describe Pirelli and Vittoria as being too loose of a fit to be confident. Bontrager rims have a long reputation for being tight fits though, so they must match well together.
One thing worth mentioning is that CO2 doesn’t play nicely with sealant.
I note you displaying battery pumps in your video, which are fine with sealant.
That was a topic in my initial recording for the Cycplus pump video, but was a victim of editing. CO2 really seems like a race-only inflation solution.
I have to respectfully disagree with your portrayal of the downsides of tubeless tires. There's a bit of a steeper learning curve I suppose, but once you get it figured out, it's really more of a set and forget type of scenario. I've been running road tubeless for the past 5 years or so, and have always been able to use a standard floor pump to set up my tires. Stans also sells sealant in tiny bottles with spouts that are the perfect size for inserting into your valve stems, which eliminates mess. The best part is that I have yet to get a flat whereas running tubes on the same roads, I would have flats several times per year. Tubeless tires are sooo much more supple and reliable, I can't see any reason not to go for it if you already have a compatible wheelset.
I wonder if rim set and/or tubes makes the difference with floor pump. Some seem to have no problem, I've used tubeless for long time and rarely have success with floor pump and tend to use compressor for first installation. I have only sets on similar rims and haven't tried on anything other that I've used for ages.
To me the the larges benefit of tubeless is having much less punctures. Sealant has always worked fine and sometimes I've only noticed after stopping a white spot indicating a puncture. Some times it has needed puncture spot down position for a short while. Never needed an inner tire that I carry as a backup.
I don't race so most speed is not that important to me. I can keep the shape up with slower tires as well.
I have no problem with any pressure, be it lower pressure with wider tires or normal pressure with thinner tires. I have found limitations in winter way below freezing point where any liquid tends to solidify. That is where I tend to run inner tubes as all year cyclist.
@@hoggifnot only does it make a difference I think it entirely determines how easy it is to get the tyre on and off and inflated. Most brands of rim and tyre seem to be trending better, maybe with the exception of GPs. But their clinchers are a nightmare too!
I'm all for respectful disagreement, so thanks for the comments. Accepting the downsides and the learning curve in exchange for better overall performance has simply been my experience though. I used only a floor pump for several sets of tire installs before one set finally forced me to get the booster bottle after exhausting my bag of tricks (no valve core, straps, soapy water). It's great, and makes the seating process a breeze. Wish I had done it sooner. Ruined a pair of cycling socks and almost lost a jersey soaked by sealant out on the road and had to clean the bike covered in sealant multiple times. 3 times I've had to install tubes (and sometimes a tire boot) roadside after sealant and tire worms failed. Still have sealant in nooks and crannies of my office chair wheels and stains on my floor mat from user-error incidents. All that said, I'm still happy to use tubeless on my primary set of wheels. Surely dozens of flats have been avoided. It's just not been all sunshine and rainbows. Cheers!
Tubeless on road 25mm/ 28mm tyres for 4 years (36,700km), and only 1 occasion where I had an issue. It was a sidewall tear, but held at 50psi with a plug. Not one flat. CO2 is death to TPU tubes, but works ok with some sealants. Faff? If you don't know what you're doing, all systrms involve faffing about. The new Tyreglider tool makes even hard to put on Tubeless tyres pretty much a 4 min job now. Refilling sealant at home makes zero mess [remove presta core squeeze in your 30-40ml via tube, valve at 5 or 7 o'clock position NO SPILL]. Way less time and money wasted, than tubes IMHO.
Glad to hear you have a good experience with it on narrow tires, but that is not universal. I've had 3 instances of needing to swap in tubes on the road and maybe half a dozen other punctures that wouldn't seal without getting off the bike and pointing the puncture downward. A few of these seals would break when trying to reinflate the tire to a usable pressure, like the thumbnail image. One batch of sealant reacted poorly with the inner layer of the tires and separated, rendering it useless. These problems were with 28c tires (30mm measured). Since moving to 30c (33mm measured) and ~57 PSI, it's been trouble free, aside from sidewall damage killing a tire early, but it would have killed a tube tire too. I prefer tubeless for a primary wheelset and recommend it despite the extra faff and expense over tubes, which are easily repaired and reused. Aside from tools, cores, and sealant, GP5000 and Pro One are 25% less expensive (locally) than GP5000STR and Pro One TLE respectively as well. It can have downsides and still be the best choice. I'll check in on that Tyreglider if I ever get a set of tight fitting tires.
@overbikedrandonneuring yeah, the lower pressures definitely seem better with tubeless sealing. Big tears/ punctures blow out above 70psi even with ample sealant - in my experience. Have been a fan of the Schwable Ones TLE too...Conti 5000s just not worth the 2x price.
I'm mainly a racer but i do like rhe occasional audax and I'm a tubeless guy, i wouldn't say that performance tires like GP5000 aren't good for Audaxs because they're the only tire i use for every type of riding
Yeah, I've almost always used race tires for randonneuring too, and they just make sense. There is a huge contingent of randonneurs who use slower, more robust tires though, and they are often the same people who would most benefit from a more efficient setup. I hope my videos can reach those folks and improve their experience.
Dynaplug vs WTB Rocket please!!!
Why would tubes be the obvious choice for slim tires ? Because I was wondering: are the sealing abilities of sealants limited by pressure, or by hoop stress ?
In other words : could sealant actually plug holes at 90+ PSI on slim tires after all ?
I've had no problems with up to a bit over 100 psi with 23mm thin tires. Sometimes you may loose pressure or have to turn puncture point down and in extreme cases add air a couple times. Of course, if you have some very large hole (more like a rip), no way to seal it with sealant but I once had about 6mm (1/4") cut that sealed. It held only lower pressure than normal but enough to get me home.
At higher pressures, sealant may be blasted out before it can coagulate to seal the hole.
If you live in an area subject to thorns (lots of pinhole punctures) tubeless may still be worth it, but if your punctures are more likely to be tears from road debris which are harder to seal, then maybe not.
I am a rando dinosaur. I still have tubes. I hear a lot of horror stories about people trying to change a tubeless tire. A trick I do especially for winter time when riding through a lot of debris, is to put a slime tube inside my tires. That way I have the possibility for self-sealing and can still change a flat by myself.
Great questions! I believe sealing ability is linked to mostly pressure rather than hoop stress. If a hole is 2mm (.0031 sq. inches), then at 100 PSI the air would exert .31 lbs of pressure on the sealant. Having a wider tire means you can maintain a given hoop stress with lower air pressure, which would benefit sealant performance. I would guess the experience given by @hoggif to be normal for slim tires, but I would call that unacceptable performance and a failed system.
When I was using 70 PSI and 28c (30mm measured) tires, several holes would seal on the road losing some pressure, but then give way at home when reinflating the tire. Testing by Fiets (German) found 8/14 sealants failed to hold when reinflated to 100 PSI on a road tire. This is with new tires and fresh sealant. Degredation over time should be considered too.
@@PBPkitty That is a neat trick. Do you put it through the valve of the inner tube? I had tried that a while back, but the sealant I used was pretty poor quality.
Tubes for the win🎉
Fell for all the tubeless hype, went back to good auld tubes too much faff gonna wait for the tech gets better
How did it affect your tyre choice and consequent speed for brevets?
Good question! I usually ran race style tires before moving to tubeless, so speed performance is about the same, but with fewer flats. On the few occasions I used slow road tires like OEM brand tires, Clement Strada, or Schwalbe Kojak, there was a noticeable penalty. Anyone moving from something like a Gatorskin to a fast tubeless tire with feel a noticeable improvement.
If you are running durable tyres that maybe slower, but don't puncture, then you aren't stopping to fix flats. Tubeless are illogical.
I would need to flat about 4 times per day every day for your argument to make sense if I swapped to Gatorskins, for example. As it stands, I flat less with tubeless race tires than when I ran thicker road tires featuring a puncture belt with tubes. And they ride great!