Hey, this is a very good tutorial (almost as good as my own :-) ). The wrist action is very important and I use double taps as soon as possible instead of the one large movement (though your acceleration technique is very good). The driving force behind the bow is the arm, not the wrist, you mention it in pasing but I find students fall into the mistake of trying to move the bow from the wrist movement. You dont mention flying staccatto technique but I guess the video is long and complex enough. Nice to meet a pro on the net, there are plenty of hacks out there....😅
Mr. Kless! It is good to hear from you on this as I remember watching your video 10 years ago as I was trying to figure this out. It was very helpful. :) Yes, I agree on the drive of the arm, but I think the thing that helped me the most was working on the wrist motion. It seems there is something a little different for everyone that helps it "click" so to speak. Anyway, thanks for the kind words and for your own tutorial. Cheers!
haha, well, much like people that have a natural up-bow staccato, I probably wouldn't be that good at teaching it. However, I'm sure you could reverse the same steps I used for upbow.
@@MurphyMusicAcademyI am sure you will do an awesome job. Now give us that video too. I don't think anyone else has released a down bow staccato video yet.
My teacher recently signaled to me that i should try improving this wrist movement for staccatos and fast string transfers and it was really interesting to see how you explained it was the "secret" behind upbows. I'll check out if you already have, but it would be really interesting to see a video focused on this.
two set is not about teaching people how to play, it's about their music journey as everyone is different and their way may not be the right way since they don't claim to be anyway....
Before Two Set Eddy, alone, had another TH-cam channel (that still exists, but is not active anymore) more dedicated to teaching and to violin techniques. Here Murphy is referring to one of these videos...
There are so many ways of doing it. I really liked your way of doing it and it has begun to work well for my hand. Alexander Shonert has another way doing it that doesn't need the finger action. Auer wrote of at least 4 ways I think. Wieniawksi who pioneered the fast staccato used the action starting from the upper arm only. The best staccato was probably the cellist Fuermann, which based on what I heard was much better than Heifetz, Primrose or Piatigorsky.
Carl Flesch said that, when it comes to rapid upbow staccato, everyone will kind of have to find their own way. The "stiff-arm" variety that was pioneered by Wieniawski I genuinely think you're born with. I've read Auer's little book, but I don't remember him going over staccato
I realized after I watched your video, I definitely do your technique at the tempo range but when it’s faster it’s hard for me to describe. It seems like maybe just a bit of the wrist rotation mechanic you described as not liking which helps me a use me first finger to bite the string it. Works for me, gets the sound I want, and I most importantly it’s pain free for me. I’m getting back into playing after a 20 year break, and I can’t remember exactly how I learned all of these techniques, it’s all muscle memory!! But I love these videos, they really help when you already have a foundation.
@@sonja4186 more less about 3months. I say more or less because I’m doing things I could not do before and have a more analytical mind, but less in the sense that I don’t quite have the dexterity of my left hand 100% yet.
@@nickcarroll8565 wow, that's fast. I also had violin lessons as a child, so I recognise what you say about 'muscle memory' and not remembering how you learned it. I remember the basics. But it's also relearning a lot, so in some ways it's really back to the beginning. It will take me longer than 3 months to get back where I was😁. Nice that you also already learned new things😊. These kind of video's are definitely helpfull, i love the way he explains things
@@sonja4186 I think in my case it’s because I was playing into my 20s, so my adult brain in my 40s is still reaching back to an adult brain. At least that’s my suspicion.
@@nickcarroll8565 o haha there's really a difference. I played age 6 till 12 en then regained interest in playing 30 years later. I had to relearn how to read notes. Anyway these kind of channels really help you get started. Even if you don't have a teacher yet
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Interesting, i have allways struggled with upbow staccato, but when i learned it my teacher actually explained as Eddy plays it, never mentioned this wrist motion at all. I should give it a try to see how it feels since i think I have a good wrist control to do it this way
actually my teacher could do a very fast staccato with that pronation-supination, which is also like Flesch taught it. I find it impossible and I also use horizontal motion of the wrist instead
I honestly have never seen that work. I'm certain the impulse likely comes from the arm, not a deliberate pronation and supination action. I'd like to see it in action. Where did you find Flesch teaching it this way? I've read his works and, though I'm certain I don't remember everything, I do distinctly remember him saying that, when it comes to rapid up-bow staccato, everyone has to find their own way of doing it.
@@MurphyMusicAcademy i agree that the movement comes from the arm. As I understood is that the pronation-supination is for stopping the movement of the arm, hence the resulting staccato articulation, but I'm no expert lol
Thanks so much for this ! Ooh ! I'd never seen the music to Schon Rosmarin before . Sibelius really asks for the impossible the upbow staccato AND IN THIRDS!
Hi Tobias - I *think* I can do what that guy at 04:00 is doing! I *think* he's: • Using a sort of Russian bow hold (with orphaned pinky! 🤔). This enables a good but light coupling of the bow to the hand. • Using a *very* light hold of the bow, enabling it to move freely, yet guided. • Using a relaxed wrist, enabling the hand to fly about a bit. • Energizing the bow using fast pulses from the *biceps* (upper arm muscles). That seems to work for me, anyhow, and I think looks and sounds about the same as him. It feels to me that my biceps are doing all the work, and everything else is gently bobbing. It's the middle of the night where I am so I can't try it loudly at the moment. Having said that, I've tried it about at loudly as he does in the clip. I hope that's helpful (and isn't unhelpful!). 🙂
I've experimented some more. I think his straight detached pinky could be deliberate - I seem to get a cleaner staccato doing that. The note starts are softened with my pinky on the stick (even lightly).
Actually, I think there's more to it. I think it helps to *feel* the stiction between the bow hair and the string, using your middle finger, and work with it. More reliable!
2:30 ironically when I do this technique wrist have nothing to do in any of this , or to be precise I would not prefer to focus on how to "move" my wrist. I will instead try to imagine to flow of force and try to draw out the "force" through my bow, and it works quite well to me. At least it allows me to do a stable staccato in Dvorak Cello Concerto. I think learning would be quite personal at some point. One work may not work on others and we have to learn to respect different learning strategies (as long as it is not obviously wrong). Also as a musician I feel not good to someone overcriticizing others in a video especially when others definitely are not planning for a toturial at the very beginning......
Very well explained,thank you. I don’t play any instruments, but I enjoy these kind of videos that help me understand the nuances and difficulties, because that helps me enjoy listening to the music, and understanding what I’m hearing. And violin has SO MUCH complexity.
Good morning, I have a non related question here. You look like you hit the gym, as a violinist. I am assuming. How do you workout that wont negatively impact your violin ability?
@@deadmanswife3625 Actually, Eddy had a channel where he taught violin and it was really good. The channel still exists, but he stopped creating content for it when TwoSet exploded
Can you go over the notes on the violin? The most part I'm confused about is for the 2nd finger, 3rd fingers and the 4th fingers, do you use just the second finger such as the "g" on the E string or do you use your first finger on the "f#" and the second finger on the "g" ? And for the 3rd finger "a" on the e string, doyou only have the 3rd finger on the "a" or do you have your first finger on the "f#", the second finger on the "g" and the third finger on the "a"?
My teacher, an international concert violinist, Ruben Kosemyan, taught me to do this by taking a paper towel and tearing it down the middle as if it were staccato.
Yeah that was more a joke but I will let you know if I figure it out. I'm glad I found your channel, I want to refresh myself on playing and your videos made me realize that none of my "professors" taught me anything about technique it was just "pick up and play". Thanks again for the content
It’s Twoset Violin not a channel full of “how to” videos. It’s great that you showed people how to do up-bow staccato *differently* , but there’s nothing wrong with what Eddy did. Twoset just promotes practice in general while entertaining their viewers. No need to point out what they did “wrong”, since they just showed how *they* like to practice. Eddy also got better, but never did he say he mastered up-bow staccato. Hence another time they proved their point that you should practice. Edit: If they are really doing something wrong, they will probably get note from Ray Chen or Hilary Hahn, whom they know really well and can easily ask for tips.
Not quite correct. Eddy was not doing a fine up now staccato, though it could sound like one, but it couldn’t develop any further, therefore learning the theory and physics behind each motion of different violin techniques (hard ones or easy ones) is extremely essential, for it would cause unnecessary stress during practice sessions or even during performances, basic concepts and foundations are something modern musicians lacks , therefore it is important for someone like Murphy to point out the flaws from musician , especially if they are influential figures, for their flaws would easily affect their viewers.
@@tigerCola It is not about twoset themselves, it is about the audience that are learning from the videos they make. Of course twoset could easily find help from Hilary or Ray, but when they release a video , it is the audience who would learn from them, and it would give a bad development for them.
@@tigerCola To make it clear I’m a twosetter myself, and I enjoy watching their videos and go to their concerts while they’re on tour, however entertainment is different from actual music training, and the two should be separated. As a musician, being criticised is a positive thing more than a negative one, for we are able to make corrections for ourselves, and listen to our own recordings, you see , it is because the are such influential figures in our classical community, therefore the more audiences they have, the more people who gets influenced, in both positive and negative ways of course.
Nice video but I do not like it’s end. Of course there could be pleasure in mediocrity while aiming for the stars may be a recipe for unhappiness. I would rather say: Remember that being on an ongoing journey may be satisfying no matter where you are right now. Happy practicing!
It’s just a continual reminder for me to lose weight, lol. I got married in March and I’ve gained 10 lbs since. We had our fun, but working at reversing that now, haha
Hey, this is a very good tutorial (almost as good as my own :-) ).
The wrist action is very important and I use double taps as soon as possible instead of the one large movement (though your acceleration technique is very good). The driving force behind the bow is the arm, not the wrist, you mention it in pasing but I find students fall into the mistake of trying to move the bow from the wrist movement.
You dont mention flying staccatto technique but I guess the video is long and complex enough.
Nice to meet a pro on the net, there are plenty of hacks out there....😅
Mr. Kless! It is good to hear from you on this as I remember watching your video 10 years ago as I was trying to figure this out. It was very helpful. :)
Yes, I agree on the drive of the arm, but I think the thing that helped me the most was working on the wrist motion. It seems there is something a little different for everyone that helps it "click" so to speak.
Anyway, thanks for the kind words and for your own tutorial. Cheers!
Tobiah we need a bonus video on that Down-bow staccato, sounds awesome.
haha, well, much like people that have a natural up-bow staccato, I probably wouldn't be that good at teaching it. However, I'm sure you could reverse the same steps I used for upbow.
@@MurphyMusicAcademyI am sure you will do an awesome job. Now give us that video too. I don't think anyone else has released a down bow staccato video yet.
Very good material. Also a relief to see you have stopped the *annoying* background music.
My teacher recently signaled to me that i should try improving this wrist movement for staccatos and fast string transfers and it was really interesting to see how you explained it was the "secret" behind upbows. I'll check out if you already have, but it would be really interesting to see a video focused on this.
Thank you for sharing!
Excellent video!
This was very useful. Thank you.
two set is not about teaching people how to play, it's about their music journey as everyone is different and their way may not be the right way since they don't claim to be anyway....
He didn’t get it that and this video is not about him criticizing them, stfu and learn
I don't think he ever said they are a teaching channel. He's just taking the opportunity to teach something.
Before Two Set Eddy, alone, had another TH-cam channel (that still exists, but is not active anymore) more dedicated to teaching and to violin techniques. Here Murphy is referring to one of these videos...
There are so many ways of doing it. I really liked your way of doing it and it has begun to work well for my hand. Alexander Shonert has another way doing it that doesn't need the finger action.
Auer wrote of at least 4 ways I think. Wieniawksi who pioneered the fast staccato used the action starting from the upper arm only.
The best staccato was probably the cellist Fuermann, which based on what I heard was much better than Heifetz, Primrose or Piatigorsky.
Carl Flesch said that, when it comes to rapid upbow staccato, everyone will kind of have to find their own way.
The "stiff-arm" variety that was pioneered by Wieniawski I genuinely think you're born with. I've read Auer's little book, but I don't remember him going over staccato
Cool class Murphy! , I have learned so much today! I am going to follow practicing my bow Staccato.
Good stuff man! I’m working it on my cello now.
Thanks!
I don’t know how much overlap violin bow technique has with cello, but I’m glad you’ve found it helpful
Practice🙏🏼❤️
I realized after I watched your video, I definitely do your technique at the tempo range but when it’s faster it’s hard for me to describe. It seems like maybe just a bit of the wrist rotation mechanic you described as not liking which helps me a use me first finger to bite the string it. Works for me, gets the sound I want, and I most importantly it’s pain free for me.
I’m getting back into playing after a 20 year break, and I can’t remember exactly how I learned all of these techniques, it’s all muscle memory!! But I love these videos, they really help when you already have a foundation.
How long did it take you to get back to your old level?
@@sonja4186 more less about 3months. I say more or less because I’m doing things I could not do before and have a more analytical mind, but less in the sense that I don’t quite have the dexterity of my left hand 100% yet.
@@nickcarroll8565 wow, that's fast.
I also had violin lessons as a child, so I recognise what you say about 'muscle memory' and not remembering how you learned it. I remember the basics. But it's also relearning a lot, so in some ways it's really back to the beginning. It will take me longer than 3 months to get back where I was😁.
Nice that you also already learned new things😊.
These kind of video's are definitely helpfull, i love the way he explains things
@@sonja4186 I think in my case it’s because I was playing into my 20s, so my adult brain in my 40s is still reaching back to an adult brain. At least that’s my suspicion.
@@nickcarroll8565 o haha there's really a difference. I played age 6 till 12 en then regained interest in playing 30 years later. I had to relearn how to read notes.
Anyway these kind of channels really help you get started. Even if you don't have a teacher yet
Want to support the channel? Give a Super Thanks or hit the Join button for Channel Membership for only $1.99 a month.
For those interested in violin, viola, and piano lessons, send an email to admin@murphymusicacademy.org, or fill out the form at murphymusicacademy.org
Interesting, i have allways struggled with upbow staccato, but when i learned it my teacher actually explained as Eddy plays it, never mentioned this wrist motion at all. I should give it a try to see how it feels since i think I have a good wrist control to do it this way
actually my teacher could do a very fast staccato with that pronation-supination, which is also like Flesch taught it. I find it impossible and I also use horizontal motion of the wrist instead
I honestly have never seen that work. I'm certain the impulse likely comes from the arm, not a deliberate pronation and supination action. I'd like to see it in action.
Where did you find Flesch teaching it this way? I've read his works and, though I'm certain I don't remember everything, I do distinctly remember him saying that, when it comes to rapid up-bow staccato, everyone has to find their own way of doing it.
@@MurphyMusicAcademy i agree that the movement comes from the arm. As I understood is that the pronation-supination is for stopping the movement of the arm, hence the resulting staccato articulation, but I'm no expert lol
Bravo maestro ottima spiegazione👏💪🌠
Sees the thumbnail 😂 “ Bold Strategy cotton ,let’s see if it will pay off”
If that's your immediate reaction to the thumbnail, then I did it right
Thanks so much for this ! Ooh ! I'd never seen the music to Schon Rosmarin before . Sibelius really asks for the impossible the upbow staccato AND IN THIRDS!
Love this, thank you.
Also - looks you've been out in the sun and working out buddy!
Totally agree with this! This is the same way I teach the technique. Keep up the great content! 👊
Maybe there's hope for me yet so, thank you! And that clip of Antal Szalai looks wild 😀
Hi Tobias - I *think* I can do what that guy at 04:00 is doing! I *think* he's:
• Using a sort of Russian bow hold (with orphaned pinky! 🤔). This enables a good but light coupling of the bow to the hand.
• Using a *very* light hold of the bow, enabling it to move freely, yet guided.
• Using a relaxed wrist, enabling the hand to fly about a bit.
• Energizing the bow using fast pulses from the *biceps* (upper arm muscles).
That seems to work for me, anyhow, and I think looks and sounds about the same as him. It feels to me that my biceps are doing all the work, and everything else is gently bobbing. It's the middle of the night where I am so I can't try it loudly at the moment. Having said that, I've tried it about at loudly as he does in the clip.
I hope that's helpful (and isn't unhelpful!). 🙂
I've experimented some more. I think his straight detached pinky could be deliberate - I seem to get a cleaner staccato doing that. The note starts are softened with my pinky on the stick (even lightly).
Actually, I think there's more to it. I think it helps to *feel* the stiction between the bow hair and the string, using your middle finger, and work with it. More reliable!
You should make a video and post it in the reply
Incredible fun, learning the violin! 😊
"that guy" is Leonidas Kavakos, but whatever 😅
Clear and simple , thanks :-)
amazing lesson.
Огромное спасибо! Прекрасное видео, очень полезное.
Gonna try it! Thanks!
Be patient!
Great stuff. Wish I could get close to this level!
i would actually now like to see him try again after watching this, though, haha!!
2:40
Thank you
Thank you!
Wow. Thank you
How can a person learn something without trying and failing a couple timer before something i deeply integrated i violin playing?
Up now sraccatto is not with mouth talking but with demo of bow on the violin string.
All the Way to the Frog sounds like a great T Shirt
2:30 ironically when I do this technique wrist have nothing to do in any of this , or to be precise I would not prefer to focus on how to "move" my wrist. I will instead try to imagine to flow of force and try to draw out the "force" through my bow, and it works quite well to me. At least it allows me to do a stable staccato in Dvorak Cello Concerto.
I think learning would be quite personal at some point. One work may not work on others and we have to learn to respect different learning strategies (as long as it is not obviously wrong).
Also as a musician I feel not good to someone overcriticizing others in a video especially when others definitely are not planning for a toturial at the very beginning......
Super super super tips
Eddy's always struggling with his right hand (staccato, sautillé, etc)
This video really helped my upbow staccato - and I'm a VIOLIST
Very well explained,thank you. I don’t play any instruments, but I enjoy these kind of videos that help me understand the nuances and difficulties, because that helps me enjoy listening to the music, and understanding what I’m hearing. And violin has SO MUCH complexity.
Well, the basic technique should be the same, even if there is some general differences between violin and viola bow technique
2:38 I really struggle with doing this wrist motion, are there any easier excercises to build up to this
Thanks for this explanation
Is there a video about down bow staccato?
Tobias really znsweres the ' how to do" questions . Also he dorsnt waste my time with chit chat.
Good morning, I have a non related question here. You look like you hit the gym, as a violinist. I am assuming. How do you workout that wont negatively impact your violin ability?
I'm the only one in the world who has had enough of two set.
But I'm here to listen to what you have to say
I still love them
@@MurphyMusicAcademy no problem. It's just when they spend more time showing off than showing you a technique it's not so great anymore for me.🤷♀️😊
Their channel is about classical music and comedy, not about technique 🤷🏻♀️
@@LingLingWannaBeLah point taken
@@deadmanswife3625 Actually, Eddy had a channel where he taught violin and it was really good. The channel still exists, but he stopped creating content for it when TwoSet exploded
Can you go over the notes on the violin? The most part I'm confused about is for the 2nd finger, 3rd fingers and the 4th fingers, do you use just the second finger such as the "g" on the E string or do you use your first finger on the "f#" and the second finger on the "g" ?
And for the 3rd finger "a" on the e string, doyou only have the 3rd finger on the "a" or do you have your first finger on the "f#", the second finger on the "g" and the third finger on the "a"?
what's the piece at 4:27 again?
Schon Rosmarin by Fritz Kreisler
th-cam.com/video/RTNeHzzF8i8/w-d-xo.html&ab_channel=Lupot123
My teacher, an international concert violinist, Ruben Kosemyan, taught me to do this by taking a paper towel and tearing it down the middle as if it were staccato.
Would you be willing to upload a video demonstrating this? I have a hard time picturing the exercise, but it sounds interesting!
@@CelloTube-vs7mf Ok, I'll do that - Concerto for Paper Towel.
Lmao! Seriously though, it would be really cool if you uploaded a video demonstrating the exercise! :) Best wishes@@shawnchristopherwhite3271
❤❤❤
i play acoustic guitar but do metal covers with a violinist....the last couple days i watch violin videos, maybe i learn the violin someday
It seems a lot of guitarists try violin
@@MurphyMusicAcademy awesomeeeeee
So with this knowledge how long until I can play a flying staccato like Ivry Gitlis???
Pretty sure you’re born with that, but if you ever figure it out let me know
Yeah that was more a joke but I will let you know if I figure it out. I'm glad I found your channel, I want to refresh myself on playing and your videos made me realize that none of my "professors" taught me anything about technique it was just "pick up and play". Thanks again for the content
Gitlis was something else. I would also suggest looking up Eugene Fodors staccato, it's very beautiful to see and hear.
Great stuff! Open to considering a collab between our channels?
I have a shitty trill and I feel people consider it much more important than this
Does it matter how much Rosen used on the bow.
Yes because it creates more friction on the bow. But don’t use too much
I have a question for you, could you tell me what is the brand name of you chinrest? Thank you!
Berber style chinrest
Thank you!
It’s Twoset Violin not a channel full of “how to” videos. It’s great that you showed people how to do up-bow staccato *differently* , but there’s nothing wrong with what Eddy did. Twoset just promotes practice in general while entertaining their viewers. No need to point out what they did “wrong”, since they just showed how *they* like to practice. Eddy also got better, but never did he say he mastered up-bow staccato. Hence another time they proved their point that you should practice.
Edit: If they are really doing something wrong, they will probably get note from Ray Chen or Hilary Hahn, whom they know really well and can easily ask for tips.
Not quite correct. Eddy was not doing a fine up now staccato, though it could sound like one, but it couldn’t develop any further, therefore learning the theory and physics behind each motion of different violin techniques (hard ones or easy ones) is extremely essential, for it would cause unnecessary stress during practice sessions or even during performances, basic concepts and foundations are something modern musicians lacks , therefore it is important for someone like Murphy to point out the flaws from musician , especially if they are influential figures, for their flaws would easily affect their viewers.
@@Liebes2732 yes but like I said, he can always ask Hilary Hahn or Ray Chen, whom he knows better.
@@e2pii213 ?
@@tigerCola It is not about twoset themselves, it is about the audience that are learning from the videos they make. Of course twoset could easily find help from Hilary or Ray, but when they release a video , it is the audience who would learn from them, and it would give a bad development for them.
@@tigerCola To make it clear I’m a twosetter myself, and I enjoy watching their videos and go to their concerts while they’re on tour, however entertainment is different from actual music training, and the two should be separated. As a musician, being criticised is a positive thing more than a negative one, for we are able to make corrections for ourselves, and listen to our own recordings, you see , it is because the are such influential figures in our classical community, therefore the more audiences they have, the more people who gets influenced, in both positive and negative ways of course.
5:20 ji wong song 🎉
I was actually there as a stage hand at that performance, believe it or not.
You are a great teacher but it is a shame that you have made adverse comments about other people’s channels, please keep it nice.
He is right... two sets are idiots and ignorant.
@@marcvilleneuve1889no they're not. And Tobiah didn't say that in this video
@@sonja4186??? I do not see my post anymore. So I do not understand your comment. Thanks
@@marcvilleneuve1889 you said that Two Set Violins are idiots ..your post was there when i replied to you
And i can still see it. You also called them ignorant
2:35
is there a difference between upbow staccato and upbow spiccato?
Nice video but I do not like it’s end. Of course there could be pleasure in mediocrity while aiming for the stars may be a recipe for unhappiness. I would rather say: Remember that being on an ongoing journey may be satisfying no matter where you are right now. Happy practicing!
So I should have it down a week or two right?
😂
Let’s go with 2
@@MurphyMusicAcademyi see
Tobiah, stop stealing your baby brother's shirts!
excellent video, btw! I'll check out Baby Gap for the shirt
It’s just a continual reminder for me to lose weight, lol. I got married in March and I’ve gained 10 lbs since. We had our fun, but working at reversing that now, haha
@@smithmusicstudies 🤣
Congratulations @@MurphyMusicAcademy ! That is wonderful!
@@MurphyMusicAcademy For what it is worth, I thought you were working out lol
Very hard mmmm
Not actually sure what that means
@@MurphyMusicAcademy this Technique looks unbelievably difficult lol /:
hello rubs
And finaly you dont have staccato in normal tempo))) what about speak))
You dont know nothing about pronation and supination, and it is most relative strategy man.
Nonsense.
I just saw cushion on your left shoulder
Yep