for some reason most people I play smash with that never had touched smash before (or videogames for that matter) tend to gravitate towards Kirby or Yoshi when they first play the game, its an easy character to play and ideal for beginners, he`s never seem geared towards serious play.
Yes. He is so fun to play as. I like copying my opponents' abilities and give them a taste of their own medicine. Some matchups turn the moment you steal their neutral special, like Olimar.
As a Kirby main I can admit I second the belmonts because if I’m getting camped out I can’t do anything. If Kirby was 20% faster he’d be a absolutely terrifying. He’d easily be high tier being an absolute menace. Sadly we are so slow we either get our grab combos or get camped
It's not actually as bad as it seems at a glance. His crouch can dodge most projectiles, and his forward tilt is difficult to punish. Yes, he is slow. You WILL eat infinite projectiles if you run towards them, but you should be walking and crouching against belmonts, because they have no safe burst options against this strategy. The only thing you have to worry about crouching is holy water, which you can grab with forward tilt. When it comes to disadvantage, kirby gets destroyed at the ledge with ledge traps, and belmonts get destroyed recovering. If you're the kirby player, you're gonna need the patience of a saint to win, but with enough dedication it is possible. I actually think swordies do better against kirby than zoners, because even if you do get it in, it won't be a combo for long.
Tried to use Kirby just playing the campaign since I needed someone fast and dexterous, but quickly realized Kirby doesn't have those strengths. He's just a little too slow. Damage is decent but there's really nothing special that defines their strength.
@@patrickestar3759 Since Kirby's most defining ability outside of copy is his multiple jumps, It feels like Kirby needs to be patient. The reason is just like Sonic it's easy for Kirby to float away, just not as bad as sonic.
I think a lot of people don’t pick him up because of the stigma of him being the beginner character for new people, who inevitably just fly to the very top of the stage and down b lol.
I am a Young link main. I admit that this is a matchup in Young Link's favor, but if the Kerby payer is good enough then they can weave in by dodging Yink's projectiles with his small hurtbox.
@@speedy2337 Kirby's hurtbox is not small enough to weave in any consistent way, especially if the Young Link is adapting even somewhat decently. He could crouch but now he's not moving.
Honestly if I was going to re-work kirby from the ground up, I'd go even more extreme than what you're suggesting. I'd go all-in on his powers, not just on his specials but his normals too. Kirby in his native games doesn't do much punching and kicking unless he has a power for it, so why not lean into it: Make his up-smash him opening parasol over his head, his forward smash the hammer, down-smash he does a short hop into stone, instead of his nair being a spin, he breaks out Spark or Needle. Kirby is one of those rare cases where he has *so many powers* that you could fill every single move slot on his kit with one and still be leaving out things, so the fact that kirby has so many basic punches and kicks is a crime.
@@illford Honestly in a lot of cases you could have very basic moves that represent his various powers. Just because it *looks* weird and gimmicky doesn't mean that it is. I know I said his down smash could be stone, but if you wanted the exact same frame data and hitbox you could easily use Spikes for that, for example.
I would love if they changed his smashes and specials in the next game, but I want them to keep his basic kit, so tilts, jab, and aerials the same. That’s because us Kirby mains love his combos and it’s kind of a disservice to us if you overhall his entire playstyle and kit. I love the idea of taking his kicks and punches and just adding some power effect like the spark effect you mentioned. This keeps his move the same but is a better representation of Kirby.
@@Milktube Yeah, I have a hard time just "saying the thing" without preamble like "Honestly" or "To Be Fair" or some other random waste of test. Trying to bet better about that.
@metalsign7015 Well Ganondorf was made in a rush development and was a Captain Falcon clone, so they tried to somewhat keep his moveset in other iterations
What do you mean 90% made-up? A lot of Kirby's moves, and that's including his normals, can be performed in Kirby Super Star with different copy abilities.
@@Fantasticbrownie99 dash attack is fire kirby, forward, backward and down throw are suplex kirby, up throw is ninja kirby, and n air is needle kirby (without the sharp objects)
I know this was supposed to be insulting but idk why I thought of this as adorable with a little kirby family showing up for tournaments all holding hands and everything 😭
On the topic of Kirby's inhale and projectiles (And your take on them healing him), I think we can do even better at capturing kirby's inhale ability. It's right there in the kirby games: If kirby inhales a projectile, he gets a powerful projectile he can spit back, but his mobility is hampered while he's holding it. If the returned projectile is chunky enough and slow enough, he can run behind it as it travels to buy him more space against a zoner, using it as a shield against follow-up projectiles fired at that angle.
I fully agree about inhale needing that % healing rework, it's something I've been thinking for a very long time. Another idea would be to get rid of hammer altogether and give him a move that lets him get in more easily. I've considered giving him wheel - similar to Bowser Jr's cart move - to answer for his horizontal speed and approach options
That would be absurdly broken in Doubles and give zoners even more agency than before. Imagine a team of Kirby with Samus/Snake/Wii Fit Trainer, constantly spamming to zone you and heal the partner Kirby. I wouldn't say the exact amount of damage, but something significant based on the projectile like healing 40% of what the projectile would have done.
Its annoying that all of Kirby's specials are so _basic_ when Kirby himself has a TON of different abilities in his games that he could have picked from.
To match Kirby's games, they should have made it so neutral special could eat projectiles and spit them back out as star projectiles, with Kirby able to walk and jump around with the projectile in his mouth (much like how he can when he swallows other fighters) and the power/size of the stars he spits out would reflect that of the projectile he ate instead of just being a flat reflector like Dedede.
Work, discipline, a team of great editors, and the existential threat of losing my only source of revenue if I don't make videos and would feel like a complete failure at life :^)
If anything about Kirby needs to change, it's his inhale (neutral B). Just look at the frame data on it: 10 startup and a minimum of 19 if you immediately release it. It's wayyy to committal to be used in competitive. Edit: thats not even counting the windbox requirements for inhalation which can be beaten very easily by anything disjointed
It still pisses me off that Kirby's Inhale, despite being his signature ability, is a worse version than Dedede's from a range and reflector standpoint...
@@SnoozeSSB Wasn't it that both colors weren't associated with a gender, but some companies thought it would be more profitable to market different colors to different genders?
@@SnoozeSSB I head about that, it was because pink was seen as a lighter shade of red and red is manly color so pink would be associated with boys, and blue is a more calmer color perfect for girls but then due to marketing (for some reason) the color were reversed.
A crazy way they could change Kirby's neutral B would break it. When you absorb a projectile, Kirby will hold it in his mouth for a few seconds or until the player takes action. Side-B would shoot it back like King Dedede, down-B would convert it to health (but more than just 2%). But neutral-B would actually absorb the ability itself so that Kirby then changes out his neutral B for whatever projectile was thrown at him. Kirby could absorb Samus' Charged shot, or he can wait for her to file a missile and absorb that ability instead, turning her missile into his neutral B. Similarly, he could get Link's boomerange or bomb instead of just his bow. Be careful throwing a bomb-omb at him, because if he absorbs it, he now has free access throw bomb-ombs whenever he wants.
An interesting buff to Kirby could be to give neutral B absorb proper fixed knockback and a bit more hitstun than it currently has around 30-40%. That way it could kill confirm into Bair by inhaling, then jump-press down- DJ Bair
As a huge Kirby fan, I would love if they remade his moveset. I think the main why reason they may not want to change it though, is because of the Smash ability in the Kirby series. If they remade his Smash moveset, they would have to remake the Smash ability in every future game it's in, and that would be a little weird. His Smash moveset may be bad in Smash, but it is amazing in the Kirby games, especially in Amazing Mirror which has a lot of puzzles where you need different abilities, and Smash can solve just about any puzzle.
Chefs Kirby Smash Moveset Idea: Jab- Smash Jab GentleJab- Smash GJab FTilt- Bell 2hit combo UTilt- Needle Up Attack (Triple Deluxe) DTilt- Slide Kick (Uses Anim from DreamLand3) Dash- Cutter Dash Nair- Smash Nair Fair- Fighter Spin Kick (Squeak Squad) Bair- Rick Spike Attack (DL3) Uair- Tornado Up Attack (Return To Dreamland) Dair- Cutter Dair. Has Projectile. Zair- Whip FSmash- Jet Charge Attack (More Charge, More Distance. Similar to Smash FSmash) USmash- Claw Attack (K64) DSmash- Sword Spin NSpecial- Inhale (Can copy or spit out projectiles, cant heal. Special copied is based off character. Can be more then just NSpecial.) SSpecial- Wing Dash. Press again for Combo Dive. Freefall is CDive only. USpecial- Fighter Uppercut. Freefall. DSpecial- Smoke Screen. A very fast, close range move that can 2frame and break poorly spaced comboes. Hold Input for Blossom Screen. A slower more powerful version with more damage, hitbox, and a spike. (Ninja Triple Deluxe) Grab- Smash Grab. DGrab- Suplex Tackle. PGrab- Smash Grab. FThrow- Ice Throw BThrow- Smash BThrow UThrow-Wing Throw. Shuttle Loop available by pressing special after the throw. DThrow- Whip DThrow. Great dmg. Other: Tap Grab for a close Grab, Hold for a Tether Grab that can Zair. SLIGHTLY better air and ground speed. Blossom Screen can AirStall and Anti-Air. Disjointed. SLoop Comboes into CDive. Final- Transform into Kabuki Kirby and fire a huge laser across the screen!
Vars your comments here and in the "Who should be deleted" video kind of betray the fact that Kirby must've missed you while you were growing up. He's not some unknown character who only boomer players love that is only carried by Smash like ROB and G&W. He's like the biggest Nintendo hero after Mario and Link. The most recent Kirby game was also the biggest seller in his series, so his popularity is increasing.
2:26 I always love it when American say "from Europe" after quoting US or any state, it's like if we say "MKleo from North America just defeated acola from Asia after beating Sonix from some random island" There is litteraly "je suis" on his name, come on xD
They should have made Kirby’s neutral B’s spit send the opponent in a completely horizontal trajectory rather than turning the opponent into a star and then making the opponent leap a little. They also should buff his air mobility a bit, and if not, give him 6 midair jumps instead of 5.
I don't know anything about competitive balance, but one thing I've always wanted for Kirby is a proper star spit projectile. Being able to inhale, run, jump, and then spit was his very first attack, and in his games the star has always done huge damage compared to abilities. Basically update inhale so that an item or projectile can be spit out as a big, slow moving, hard hitting, far traveling star, along with cargo carry while it's in his mouth. Maybe even do the thing from the games where inhaling two things at once forms a stronger piercing star.
thank you so much for this, you nailed every point!! you have no idea how exhausting it was to always explain this to new people all the time. now i can just link them this
Honestly when it comes to small changes I wish kirby had, I would love for Final cutter to have a the startup from Super Star when close to ooponents. Like if you're far away it does the normal version but when you someones in your face it does a A slash combo like Cloud's Side-B and ends with the up B.
8:51 the Star does CRAZY damage and knockback. The issue is how slow everything is to activate, and how many projectiles DONT activate this. The auto swallow is used 99% of the time for projectiles, only heals 1%, and is SO LAGGY. Manual swallow is super fast, and I wish that’s what eating all projectiles was like. I also really wish EVERY projectile could be inhaled, it would give Kirby a STRONGER counter to camping, something he loses to.
Buffs I'd like for Kirby: * Inhale - more effective range, can spit back projectiles or eat them up. So essentially, you get a reflector and a command grab. *Hammer* gets super armor on release regardless of charge and has way more knockback , killing earlier. Also, it deals heavy damage on shields so you can potentially break a shield after a couple dtilt pokes. * Upb. Shave off startup frames or add intangibility frames on startup. * Stone. Kirby gains the armor effect some frames earlierr and it works just like bowser's down b being able to break shields
cool idea, but with a massive amount of gits to choose and dev time in each game needed to flesh out all the newcomers I would not see this happen unless they had tiny & small rosters to choose from
I think what this video shows is that Kirby’s neutral b is key. The point about his neutral b arguably being the best in the game, because it’ll always be as good as your opponents is interesting. other characters have those tools that Kirby lacks, so in some matchups you just gotta get lucky with what you get
He doesn't even need a bigger heal for eating projectiles, he just needs less lag for doing so. I'm not even sure bigger healing would offset the fact that if Kirby eats a projectile, his opponent can hard punish him from across half the stage. O.o
There are so many things such as air speed, disjoints, and specials that if tweaked a little bit or made a bit better would make Kirby a top tier. Already has some of the best frame data in the game with frame 2 jab, his tilts, his aerials, has amazing low profiling, and if Kirby had a usable kit of specials, higher speed, or more disjoints Kirby would be top 10.
It’s so hard for kirby mains to not have a secondary, he just has too many weaknesses. Also literally the only kirby specials i actually use often is up b and maybe down b sometimes, his specials are just kinda meh and inhale usually needs a setup into it, you cant really throw it out in neutral too much-
kirby could be a great character and all they'd have to do is give him a burst option or reflector/projectile instead of hammer. If he had something like his wheel copy ability he'd have no problem getting to his opponents or if he had the mirror copy ability to reflect it wouldn't be so easy to zone him
Min Min gets no attention because she's smash dhalsim. The miis, besides brawler, are ok and dont ever see a lot of use, and duck hunt is a mystery. Why people dont think about him more is beyond me.
Kirby also has the interesting problem of developer bias. Its not a secret that Sakurai **overly favors** the kirby games he works on and doesn't have much that isn't from his era with the series. The most significant edition being 2 different skins on Meta Knight. This bias hurts him IMO cause it severely restricts the era of moves he pulls from and possible avenues of being changed in the future.
And is not the only case, mind you. Gameplay wise Bowser is a massive hit (Epitome of brute force in multiple ways, strong but very punishable fighter who is mostly likes head on confrontation), but because he for some reason doesn't understand his vision of Bowser is not the real one, his personality is butchered and so was his design for over a decade. Sakurai can really be stubborn.
@@N12015 What’s even more sad is characters like Steve are practically lifted from their source material. To see this next to these bastardized portrayals of the Kirby cast and Bowser is just unfair.
@@redwarrior4226 oh another thing. Sakurai only worked on like 3 proper Kirby games. Dream Land, Adventure, and Super Star. There isn’t even a “Sakurai era”, just three whole games and nothing more.
I would love Kirby’s side-b to be based off of the Jester instead of hammer. It’s an iconic ability, is more unique than the hammer, and could be made an actually good move. It would give him a disjointed, mid-range option to deal with swordies, and maybe he could charge it for a short time for a projectile to deal with zoners.
You covered the points I tell a lot of my friends: he is slow (can't keep up with other characters), light (dies too easily), and stubby with no projectile (has no range to speak of). The good normals he has (along with small hurt box) aren't nearly enough to compensate. I know you said you think he's underrated and that's fine, but I personally think he's bottom 5. Slow brawlers are just not cut out for Ultimate. That's why Ganon and Doc are so bad (I know Doc has some zoning/anti zoning abilities but I don't think they're very good). I used to think Incineroar was at the bottom too but somehow his playerbase started making it work, I'm skeptical they can keep it up though.
Would love to see an adult Link video. Why no one and everyone plays Link. Super popular amongst plebs, but completely unrepresented in high level tournament.
Having worked with a fan mod, kirby's copy ability is also a huge pain in the ass to code. Switching his moveset would help alleviate the coding struggle he is. Sidenote, in the first kirby game, he could shoot out a puff of air that hurt enemies. Would be cool if he had that
Kirby is like a training wheel character for people who just started playing. He as multi-jump to help them recover and he also as a bunch of moves which are easy to mash or have decent kill power. He also has easy too learn bread and butter combos and his copy abilities help you learn about other characters in the cast. Things that are very good for noobies. Lets be honest we all played kirby as kids
It is true that kirby specials are bad, but practicing parry and dodge you can get close very fast, and it's specials have some good utilities: Up B can be used as spike if you dont land in the ground wich doesn't mean fall to the void but grab an edge, it has good combo potential at low percentages (Dash attack + Up B can force an air dodge from the rival where you can punish him) and it's little proyectile actually can be very good against characters with bad horizontal recover or light characters. Down B it is usually used in the air for edgeguarding or trying to hit on high places, but it is actually much faster in ground, while in air has like 15 frames until does damage in ground it's like 9 wich is a huge difference, it is difficult to use but with moves like down tilt or by footstooling someone you can do a very good horizontal knockback and very good damage, also it is good for protection, not protect from proyectiles specifically but also for spikes, yeah, it may sound stupid but kirbys recovery is vertically so good that even below the stage you can down b and still go back. (it is recommended to practice it) Neutral B its good you just need to learn the different combos of the characters with kirby, and only inhale non explosive proyectiles that have big damage (like samus charged plasma cannon) to ensure that even if they punish you, you will end with less damage than with taking the proyectile. Side B Maybe it is laggy but in air it does double hit, you can jump and change direction with it making it very useful for edgetrapping, it can break shields with the double hit (only for big characters, unless there are platforms in the stage) and when charged it's the most powerful kirby move so if you break someones shield, they will need to pray for mercy from that huge hammer. With all that aside, it is a nice video, and it is very hard to learn how to use kirby so i understand it is not too viable, kirby mains, you can take note from this comment xd
This is how I would buff Kirby's specials: Inhale: Kirby can now copy a character by swallowing their projectiles like in the Kirby games. This includes explosive projectiles and projectiles not from neutral-B. Hammer Flip: Either rework it into Hammer Swing, a multihitting burst movement tool that also grants armour (intangibility in the Kirby games), or somehow incorporate the functionality of instantly charging the move after dodging an attack like in Forgotten Land. Final Cutter: Much faster to come up and down, and the projectile is stronger too. Also has a brief grab-box at the beginning of the move that adds starter hits, dragging the opponent through the entire move with more damage, similarly to how it activates in the Kirby series. Stone: Spikes all the way through the move and a smash input will produce a laggier but much larger and more powerful stone that can instantly break shields. Both versions of stone will also kill on stage at more reasonable percentages.
13:05 I think it would be better if Kirby could spit out any projectile into a star like you can with large projectiles because in the actual Kirby games it doesn't matter what you eat as long as it's a thing you can inhale you can spit out as a star. People to the character and makes him more viable
As a Kirby main, one of the struggles I face often is timing and zoning. Hammer flip could be the down smash, and maybe could even have a reflector, like you mentioned, and side special should be a ranged burst like Plasma. And Up Special should be able to have the downwards fall part be cancellable, like Dedede’s up special.
The current move-set has a lot of room for improvement, but I still play Kirby on occasion. If he's meant to be a beginner-friendly character, I understand, but many ideas, such as the use of other copy abilities like Sword, Fighter, or even Beetle, were missed opportunities.
Kirby (along side Pit) was my favorite character in Brawl. I remember picking up Kirby in SSB4 for the first time and remember feeling he had been totally gutted in that game.
1 buff to make him good: make his copy ability also copy the opponent's air speed (keeping his air acceleration) so that he can play in the air against fast characters and making the neutral B more worth using
Love listening to these videos while on my lunch break, glad to see this one here today as a nice surprise! Also I don’t know if you take suggestions or not but a “why no one plays Wario” would be very interesting to see in the future!
I think what would be very cool for Kirby would be having side special scroll through a wheel of abilities from his home series that replace his down special. he would keep stone and hammer. but they would be an ability that he can select from.
Down B should be quicker and finish when the player releases the buttons. Neutral B should be quicker and mimic Villager's, but with the option to spit it out as a star or swallow it for a minor health gain (except bombs or electricity). Switch his dash attack to his Side B, but with aerial option. Then change his dash attack to the Kirby slide.
Correction about kirby's neutral b star, it SUPER kills, a very good projectile of your opponent gets careless. That being said, it's super situational since kirby only turns big projectiles into stars. A simple change imo would be to have kirby be able to spit every projectile as a star, and the power of the star would scale based on the power of the projectile. It'd SUPER help him deal with zoners
Good video, but remember, kirby has zoning tools against all Neutal b zoners. Also, aerial hammer is a great shield break move, and grounded hammer is excellent for ledge trapping. Moving / jumping with a move that powerful is very valuable
They could kirby just by changing his up and forward B based off of the hat the color kirby is. Have a sword, hammer, boomerang, lightning bolt, drill, and or whatever else powers he has gained. At least then, you could fix his variety.
As a puff main I second this, I love playing puff (thanks melee) and it's rare I run into another puff main which makes me sad, also as far as competition is concerned only bassmage and Hbox play puff to my knowledge
Because he's always in the Arena mode, there's at least 1 Kirby main per 2 arena rooms I main Kirbss getting kills with hammer is actually really cool because nobody expects the Hammer to work
final cutter always bothered me because in the base game kirby has to do a couple hits with the base cutter in order to activate final edge, maybe as a way to make this more accurate (and viable) it does the first few hits and then follows up with the final cutter and i think giving hammer the giant swing for when he's in mid air can help him a bit instead of him just having hammer flip
I used to main Kirby at the start of the game. I actually dropped him because he felt underwhelming at times and I kept having the "oh you only beat me because my character is a low tier/sucks" mentality so I started learning other fundamental based characters (Mario, wolf, lucina, cloud) and they have also given me a better perspective on how to play the game and Kirby better . I also learned that it wasn't that Kirby sucked. it was I had to get better
as a kirby main i've always found that every time i try to pick up another character and i think i'm better with them i end up going back to kirby and realizing that im even better with kirby after practicing with the other character
I always wondered how it would affect balance if they made copying your opponent more valuable, which would be in line with making Kirby's signature ability actually function as more than a niche gimmick. My suggestions: Keep his bad default specials, but copying your opponent gives Kirby all of their special moves. Allow Kirby to retain an ability indefinitely regardless of damage or losing a stock. Allow Kirby to copy an opponent's ability by inhaling their projectile (ex: eating a Samus charge shot = Samus Kirby) This would make Kirby play around what he can get from the opponent while having it be worth the risk of going for a copy in the first place. A Mario isn't going to want to give Kirby Fludd and cape with all of Kirby's jumps, but can't fully camp Kirby cause one fireball gives the ability for free. Kirby's good frame data means it can also likely combo with a lot of character's special moves. If not, one could even make Kirby's versions better than his opponent's in some way (faster, stronger, etc.). It could even be balanced per character to allow for a good 1v1 matchup. I would bet that the developers don't want to make Kirby too similar to other lightweight characters, and so maybe my suggestions would have Kirby keep his unique disadvantage of being the only lightweight without speed, long-range, and zoning tools, but have a unique advantage/gameplan fitting of the Kirby series.
I think Kirby is due for a rework. I think having Kirby start out kind of weak but able to suck up stars left by enemy attacks to fend enemies off would be a good starting point, and then Kirby would be able to alter his playstyle between Fighter (+Suplex), Sword, Beam (+Mirror), a mix of the various elemental abilities, Hammer, and maybe Space Ranger (+Laser and Mecha) by inhaling different targets. You would be able to inhale allies who are standing still and not using a move to get the ability from them as well. This would both add opportunites to make Kirby better and give Kirby a bit more of that in-game feel where he can kind of do anything.
*you're the only one here I will tell this to, since you seem to be reasonable.* There is no need for Kirby to be carried by a speed buff(as a kirby main myself *any kind of buff is not needed but would be considered extra),* and a lot of people are underestimating Kirby when you're not looking at them fundamentally. It was nice meeting you.😮💨
Unironically? I know it's still a bad special move, but it actually does have some niche uses that can work surprisingly well (just don't use it in neutral lmao)
I wish they would increase his distance between jumps and give him access to his fast fall "deflate" from his games, Kirby would be so much better with better air mobility so he could actually act like an airborne fighter like Dede and Jigs can, in addition to his current crouch-heavy ground gMe
Deadass if kirby's physics with his ground and air movement were buffed to be solid, he'd be an absolute menace to society. They might as well as make his crouch even lower while they're at it just to truly strike fear in people's eyes.
I think he is meant to be just an ""introduction character" to the game, and that's about it. Need more jumps? Need to be able to land safely? Needs a proper Up-air to reach to ledge on top of the jumps? He has all that, should make any newbie comfortable for trying to play the game for the 1sttime and not be afraid of falling of stage by accident. He might be fun and all but again if fun is all that you are after is good character for that.
Kirby is a TERRIBLE introduction character compared to Pit, Lucina or Yoshi. An introduction character should be all-rounder or very fundamental based, neither of which fits Kirby due to very exploitable weaknesses.
@@N12015 Nop, those are good for competition players u wanna learn the game at a competitive level. When I say introduction character I mean something, that even a child can get and have fun. That's it nothing else to it.
Kirby side-b is only a viable move as a shield break punish. You can charge the move while pushing your stunned opponent closer to the edge of the stage and then kill at very low percent. It's one of the top 10 shield break punishes in the game in my opinion. If kirby had a consistent shield breaker setup i would have no problems with side-b being in his kit. As it is now, his side-b has killed me more times than my opponent simply by me accidentally inputting it instead of a B-reverse up-B when trying to recover. I would have a better record with my kirby if that move slot was simply empty and had no move assigned to it at all.
In the beginning cutscene, Kirby is the only fighter to escape Galeem and Darkon. Surfing on his warp star like Japan's friend Kakarot on his flying nimbus 筋斗雲, Kintōun. Yet Kirby cannot recover or travel the air horizontally. Bizarre. Forward Special should be like a Fox/ Falco illusion where Kirby warps to ledge. This combined with the ability to Up Special out of shield would balance him out while staying true to Sakurai's vision for his character.
Bear in mind that Melee Kirby is ridiculously slow for no real reason. He deserves to be in last place there, not second to last imho. I have no idea why the game developers did that to him in just that one game. Melee Kirby is fundamentally different/worse than Kirby in all 4 of the other Smash Bros games.
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Kirby may be bad competitively but he really is enjoyable to play imo
for some reason most people I play smash with that never had touched smash before (or videogames for that matter) tend to gravitate towards Kirby or Yoshi when they first play the game, its an easy character to play and ideal for beginners, he`s never seem geared towards serious play.
Yes. He is so fun to play as. I like copying my opponents' abilities and give them a taste of their own medicine. Some matchups turn the moment you steal their neutral special, like Olimar.
@@SteelTiamat also gimping with him seems very fun just getttem and drop them off at the blast zone then fly away
Could be better though. Give him better air speed. Or a crazy copy ability coping ALL special moves like modern Kirby games have movesets for
I wouldn't say he's bad per se, he's pretty mid all things considered. His strengths are just as prominent as his weaknesses imo.
As a Kirby main I can admit I second the belmonts because if I’m getting camped out I can’t do anything. If Kirby was 20% faster he’d be a absolutely terrifying. He’d easily be high tier being an absolute menace. Sadly we are so slow we either get our grab combos or get camped
If kirby was faster omg
If they don’t use stone because Kirby can get punished by opponents who can grab him out! Also Mario’s Fludd can push him while in his stone form!
It's not actually as bad as it seems at a glance. His crouch can dodge most projectiles, and his forward tilt is difficult to punish.
Yes, he is slow. You WILL eat infinite projectiles if you run towards them, but you should be walking and crouching against belmonts, because they have no safe burst options against this strategy. The only thing you have to worry about crouching is holy water, which you can grab with forward tilt.
When it comes to disadvantage, kirby gets destroyed at the ledge with ledge traps, and belmonts get destroyed recovering.
If you're the kirby player, you're gonna need the patience of a saint to win, but with enough dedication it is possible.
I actually think swordies do better against kirby than zoners, because even if you do get it in, it won't be a combo for long.
Tried to use Kirby just playing the campaign since I needed someone fast and dexterous, but quickly realized Kirby doesn't have those strengths. He's just a little too slow. Damage is decent but there's really nothing special that defines their strength.
@@REXFORGT kirby is very fast but you havr to be close to them. Up tilt, down tilt, falling nair. Closing the distance is his biggest problem
I WANTED THIS EPISODE!!
BUT I ALSO DIDN'T KNOW HOW SAD IT WOULD MAKE ME!!
Kirby deserve better. 😭
YES
@@patrickestar3759 Since Kirby's most defining ability outside of copy is his multiple jumps, It feels like Kirby needs to be patient. The reason is just like Sonic it's easy for Kirby to float away, just not as bad as sonic.
I think a lot of people don’t pick him up because of the stigma of him being the beginner character for new people, who inevitably just fly to the very top of the stage and down b lol.
Kirby and Sonic are the prime example of “This move set sucks and there plenty of source material to make a new one… lets keep it”
Meanwhile Ganondorf goes forgotten in the corner of the room, crying himself to sleep.
@@CaptainDCap He got his butter knife ya'll whinged about so badly, so he's fine! -Nintendo probably
@@HaruHoneybun I love playing Ganondorf in 4 player lobbies.
@@HaruHoneybun And they didn't even make it the twilight princess one.
@@classarank7youtubeherokeyb63 This one at least has some reason for being in, since it references a demo way back in the day.
Sometimes I feel like Kirby is criminally underrated for how good his normals are, and then I run into Young Link on quickplay.
I am a Young link main. I admit that this is a matchup in Young Link's favor, but if the Kerby payer is good enough then they can weave in by dodging Yink's projectiles with his small hurtbox.
@@speedy2337 Kirby's hurtbox is not small enough to weave in any consistent way, especially if the Young Link is adapting even somewhat decently. He could crouch but now he's not moving.
@@Awildgamer I guess your right, I have run into some pretty good kerbys on quick play. And at least Kerby can beat adult link better than the others.
@@speedy2337 it’s not about how good the kirby player is it’s about how good the young link player is.
@@hugoland9027 I would say that it is both. But it also has to do with who has better knowledge in the matchup.
Honestly if I was going to re-work kirby from the ground up, I'd go even more extreme than what you're suggesting. I'd go all-in on his powers, not just on his specials but his normals too. Kirby in his native games doesn't do much punching and kicking unless he has a power for it, so why not lean into it: Make his up-smash him opening parasol over his head, his forward smash the hammer, down-smash he does a short hop into stone, instead of his nair being a spin, he breaks out Spark or Needle. Kirby is one of those rare cases where he has *so many powers* that you could fill every single move slot on his kit with one and still be leaving out things, so the fact that kirby has so many basic punches and kicks is a crime.
I mean hes supposed to be basic. I also think making him so gimmicky would possibly make him worse
@@illford Honestly in a lot of cases you could have very basic moves that represent his various powers. Just because it *looks* weird and gimmicky doesn't mean that it is. I know I said his down smash could be stone, but if you wanted the exact same frame data and hitbox you could easily use Spikes for that, for example.
I would love if they changed his smashes and specials in the next game, but I want them to keep his basic kit, so tilts, jab, and aerials the same. That’s because us Kirby mains love his combos and it’s kind of a disservice to us if you overhall his entire playstyle and kit. I love the idea of taking his kicks and punches and just adding some power effect like the spark effect you mentioned. This keeps his move the same but is a better representation of Kirby.
Your comments didn't require any honesty at all, they are just sharing a very reasonable opinion.
@@Milktube Yeah, I have a hard time just "saying the thing" without preamble like "Honestly" or "To Be Fair" or some other random waste of test. Trying to bet better about that.
sakurai: i like to try and keep characters playing closely to their home games. also sakurai: 90% made up moveset for his own son
@metalsign7015 Well Ganondorf was made in a rush development and was a Captain Falcon clone, so they tried to somewhat keep his moveset in other iterations
What do you mean 90% made-up? A lot of Kirby's moves, and that's including his normals, can be performed in Kirby Super Star with different copy abilities.
@@k-leb4671only his specials but the rest are just made up
@@k-leb4671his aerials and smash attacks are all made up
@@Fantasticbrownie99 dash attack is fire kirby, forward, backward and down throw are suplex kirby, up throw is ninja kirby, and n air is needle kirby (without the sharp objects)
You see, you don’t see a lot of Kirby players in tournaments because they don’t reach the height requirement and can’t go without their parents :(
That's untrue, remember that 5 year old "prodigy" Kirby player that got like top 8 irc
@@abyssalnothingness oui despite the well known smash bros height requirement
I know this was supposed to be insulting but idk why I thought of this as adorable with a little kirby family showing up for tournaments all holding hands and everything 😭
Mfw I still play Kirby at 22 (My height has declined rapidly, please send help)
On the topic of Kirby's inhale and projectiles (And your take on them healing him), I think we can do even better at capturing kirby's inhale ability. It's right there in the kirby games: If kirby inhales a projectile, he gets a powerful projectile he can spit back, but his mobility is hampered while he's holding it. If the returned projectile is chunky enough and slow enough, he can run behind it as it travels to buy him more space against a zoner, using it as a shield against follow-up projectiles fired at that angle.
I fully agree about inhale needing that % healing rework, it's something I've been thinking for a very long time. Another idea would be to get rid of hammer altogether and give him a move that lets him get in more easily. I've considered giving him wheel - similar to Bowser Jr's cart move - to answer for his horizontal speed and approach options
His side special could easily be the wheel ability!!! Might make him seem like Sonic but I doubt it'd be spammable
That would be absurdly broken in Doubles and give zoners even more agency than before. Imagine a team of Kirby with Samus/Snake/Wii Fit Trainer, constantly spamming to zone you and heal the partner Kirby. I wouldn't say the exact amount of damage, but something significant based on the projectile like healing 40% of what the projectile would have done.
@@yoder6162 maybe 50%, you probably aren't going to be healing much from it anyways unless it's something like Charge shot
Its annoying that all of Kirby's specials are so _basic_ when Kirby himself has a TON of different abilities in his games that he could have picked from.
To match Kirby's games, they should have made it so neutral special could eat projectiles and spit them back out as star projectiles, with Kirby able to walk and jump around with the projectile in his mouth (much like how he can when he swallows other fighters) and the power/size of the stars he spits out would reflect that of the projectile he ate instead of just being a flat reflector like Dedede.
>inhale opponent
>walk off edge
Pouring one out to all the Kirby mains out there (me included 😔)
Good on you for playing who you like all the same
As someone who really wants a port or sequel of Kirby Air Ride, the City Trial music right at the start of the video hits me in the feels
yea fr they needa remake that game
Play it competitively (Air Ride)
How do you always make such clean videos so regularly over three channels?
Forbidden magicks
He's asian, and you now what they say about them overworking.
@@N12015 Stop
Dedication, outsourcing, its a job Wdym
Work, discipline, a team of great editors, and the existential threat of losing my only source of revenue if I don't make videos and would feel like a complete failure at life :^)
If anything about Kirby needs to change, it's his inhale (neutral B). Just look at the frame data on it: 10 startup and a minimum of 19 if you immediately release it. It's wayyy to committal to be used in competitive.
Edit: thats not even counting the windbox requirements for inhalation which can be beaten very easily by anything disjointed
It does get used in competitive. It's hammer that's the worst
It still pisses me off that Kirby's Inhale, despite being his signature ability, is a worse version than Dedede's from a range and reflector standpoint...
@@arandomperson12345 if he could just heal quickly enough to not be punished for using it, and heal something reasonable like even 5... but no
It’s because he is pink and pink is for girls
YEAH
Lol ik it’s a joke but for people who don’t know, pink was originally for boys and blue was for girls but society flipped that
@@SnoozeSSB Wasn't it that both colors weren't associated with a gender, but some companies thought it would be more profitable to market different colors to different genders?
Exactly
@@SnoozeSSB I head about that, it was because pink was seen as a lighter shade of red and red is manly color so pink would be associated with boys, and blue is a more calmer color perfect for girls but then due to marketing (for some reason) the color were reversed.
Kirby was mainstream before Smash. His first game sold over 5 million copies lol. He owes as much of his exposure to smash as Donkey Kong or Link do.
Did Kirby really owe a good portion of his exposure to Smash Bros? Maybe its a generational thing, but us 90s kids loved Kirby before Smash.
A crazy way they could change Kirby's neutral B would break it. When you absorb a projectile, Kirby will hold it in his mouth for a few seconds or until the player takes action. Side-B would shoot it back like King Dedede, down-B would convert it to health (but more than just 2%). But neutral-B would actually absorb the ability itself so that Kirby then changes out his neutral B for whatever projectile was thrown at him.
Kirby could absorb Samus' Charged shot, or he can wait for her to file a missile and absorb that ability instead, turning her missile into his neutral B. Similarly, he could get Link's boomerange or bomb instead of just his bow. Be careful throwing a bomb-omb at him, because if he absorbs it, he now has free access throw bomb-ombs whenever he wants.
I love it
Or instead just hold down to absorb the ability and also gain health
In short, Kirby is an all-rounder who struggles to do basic things.
You need to pay more attention Kirby isn't an all-rounder he specifically says that his moveset favors non special moves.
he do be round though
An interesting buff to Kirby could be to give neutral B absorb proper fixed knockback and a bit more hitstun than it currently has around 30-40%. That way it could kill confirm into Bair by inhaling, then jump-press down- DJ Bair
Also fixed kb means it would actually kill confirm. Neutral B-Bair kills and neutral B-Uair-Bair combos would go hard
As a huge Kirby fan, I would love if they remade his moveset. I think the main why reason they may not want to change it though, is because of the Smash ability in the Kirby series. If they remade his Smash moveset, they would have to remake the Smash ability in every future game it's in, and that would be a little weird.
His Smash moveset may be bad in Smash, but it is amazing in the Kirby games, especially in Amazing Mirror which has a lot of puzzles where you need different abilities, and Smash can solve just about any puzzle.
juicy ability so good it came back
Chefs Kirby Smash Moveset Idea:
Jab- Smash Jab
GentleJab- Smash GJab
FTilt- Bell 2hit combo
UTilt- Needle Up Attack (Triple Deluxe)
DTilt- Slide Kick (Uses Anim from DreamLand3)
Dash- Cutter Dash
Nair- Smash Nair
Fair- Fighter Spin Kick (Squeak Squad)
Bair- Rick Spike Attack (DL3)
Uair- Tornado Up Attack (Return To Dreamland)
Dair- Cutter Dair. Has Projectile.
Zair- Whip
FSmash- Jet Charge Attack (More Charge, More Distance. Similar to Smash FSmash)
USmash- Claw Attack (K64)
DSmash- Sword Spin
NSpecial- Inhale (Can copy or spit out projectiles, cant heal. Special copied is based off character. Can be more then just NSpecial.)
SSpecial- Wing Dash. Press again for Combo Dive. Freefall is CDive only.
USpecial- Fighter Uppercut. Freefall.
DSpecial- Smoke Screen. A very fast, close range move that can 2frame and break poorly spaced comboes. Hold Input for Blossom Screen. A slower more powerful version with more damage, hitbox, and a spike. (Ninja Triple Deluxe)
Grab- Smash Grab.
DGrab- Suplex Tackle.
PGrab- Smash Grab.
FThrow- Ice Throw
BThrow- Smash BThrow
UThrow-Wing Throw. Shuttle Loop available by pressing special after the throw.
DThrow- Whip DThrow. Great dmg.
Other: Tap Grab for a close Grab, Hold for a Tether Grab that can Zair. SLIGHTLY better air and ground speed. Blossom Screen can AirStall and Anti-Air. Disjointed.
SLoop Comboes into CDive.
Final- Transform into Kabuki Kirby and fire a huge laser across the screen!
Because many don't actually know how to play him, if people would master a character hardly every character would be S tier
It felt like Sakurai didn't want to overly buff Kirby or else he'd be accused of favouritism.
I know Captain Falcon is more well known for Smash at this point but it really hurts to hear that.
Also. The stars damage changes depending on the size of the projectile along with its speed.
Yes as a fully charged charge beam spat out does 40%
@@voidcatling indeed. Didn't expect a reply
Vars your comments here and in the "Who should be deleted" video kind of betray the fact that Kirby must've missed you while you were growing up. He's not some unknown character who only boomer players love that is only carried by Smash like ROB and G&W. He's like the biggest Nintendo hero after Mario and Link. The most recent Kirby game was also the biggest seller in his series, so his popularity is increasing.
2:26 I always love it when American say "from Europe" after quoting US or any state, it's like if we say "MKleo from North America just defeated acola from Asia after beating Sonix from some random island"
There is litteraly "je suis" on his name, come on xD
They should have made Kirby’s neutral B’s spit send the opponent in a completely horizontal trajectory rather than turning the opponent into a star and then making the opponent leap a little. They also should buff his air mobility a bit, and if not, give him 6 midair jumps instead of 5.
I don't know anything about competitive balance, but one thing I've always wanted for Kirby is a proper star spit projectile. Being able to inhale, run, jump, and then spit was his very first attack, and in his games the star has always done huge damage compared to abilities.
Basically update inhale so that an item or projectile can be spit out as a big, slow moving, hard hitting, far traveling star, along with cargo carry while it's in his mouth. Maybe even do the thing from the games where inhaling two things at once forms a stronger piercing star.
Kirby’s garbage air speed makes it incredibly easy for him to get hit and incredibly hard for him to get in
thank you so much for this, you nailed every point!! you have no idea how exhausting it was to always explain this to new people all the time. now i can just link them this
This channel deserves more recognition. Consistent, entertaining content- who could want more?
It's so sad that Sakurai purposely made Kirby shiet to avoid bias, then ends up creating the worst character in smash for 20 years.
Honestly when it comes to small changes I wish kirby had, I would love for Final cutter to have a the startup from Super Star when close to ooponents. Like if you're far away it does the normal version but when you someones in your face it does a A slash combo like Cloud's Side-B and ends with the up B.
8:51 the Star does CRAZY damage and knockback. The issue is how slow everything is to activate, and how many projectiles DONT activate this.
The auto swallow is used 99% of the time for projectiles, only heals 1%, and is SO LAGGY. Manual swallow is super fast, and I wish that’s what eating all projectiles was like. I also really wish EVERY projectile could be inhaled, it would give Kirby a STRONGER counter to camping, something he loses to.
Buffs I'd like for Kirby:
* Inhale - more effective range, can spit back projectiles or eat them up. So essentially, you get a reflector and a command grab.
*Hammer* gets super armor on release regardless of charge and has way more knockback , killing earlier. Also, it deals heavy damage on shields so you can potentially break a shield after a couple dtilt pokes.
* Upb. Shave off startup frames or add intangibility frames on startup.
* Stone. Kirby gains the armor effect some frames earlierr and it works just like bowser's down b being able to break shields
I think what woulda made Kirby way More fun is if his inhale gave him the enemies entire kit. Up special down special side special and down special
Omggg as an kirby main this is such a good idea it would make him more recognisible and consisten again
cool idea, but with a massive amount of gits to choose and dev time in each game needed to flesh out all the newcomers I would not see this happen unless they had tiny & small rosters to choose from
I think what this video shows is that Kirby’s neutral b is key. The point about his neutral b arguably being the best in the game, because it’ll always be as good as your opponents is interesting. other characters have those tools that Kirby lacks, so in some matchups you just gotta get lucky with what you get
Down and up special are pretty iconic though. Change side special.
He doesn't even need a bigger heal for eating projectiles, he just needs less lag for doing so.
I'm not even sure bigger healing would offset the fact that if Kirby eats a projectile, his opponent can hard punish him from across half the stage. O.o
There are so many things such as air speed, disjoints, and specials that if tweaked a little bit or made a bit better would make Kirby a top tier. Already has some of the best frame data in the game with frame 2 jab, his tilts, his aerials, has amazing low profiling, and if Kirby had a usable kit of specials, higher speed, or more disjoints Kirby would be top 10.
I liked Kirby in the first few games but he is clearly underpowered now. Curious all the reasons you have in this video.
It’s so hard for kirby mains to not have a secondary, he just has too many weaknesses. Also literally the only kirby specials i actually use often is up b and maybe down b sometimes, his specials are just kinda meh and inhale usually needs a setup into it, you cant really throw it out in neutral too much-
kirby could be a great character and all they'd have to do is give him a burst option or reflector/projectile instead of hammer. If he had something like his wheel copy ability he'd have no problem getting to his opponents or if he had the mirror copy ability to reflect it wouldn't be so easy to zone him
I'd like to see one about the miis, duck hunt, or min-min. I think they are all interesting characters but don't see much light.
Min Min gets no attention because she's smash dhalsim. The miis, besides brawler, are ok and dont ever see a lot of use, and duck hunt is a mystery. Why people dont think about him more is beyond me.
Duck Hunt is a glass cannon that can’t kill and has a bottom 10 disadvantage with a predictable zone gameplan that can get run over by mid tiers
@@2000Doriyas agreed, it feels like the only way duck hunt kills is people not being able to DI down smash or kamikaze combo breaks with frame 1 can
Kirby also has the interesting problem of developer bias. Its not a secret that Sakurai **overly favors** the kirby games he works on and doesn't have much that isn't from his era with the series. The most significant edition being 2 different skins on Meta Knight. This bias hurts him IMO cause it severely restricts the era of moves he pulls from and possible avenues of being changed in the future.
Yup, every stage is Sakurai era too.
Also another fun fact, the last time Sakurai made a Kirby game was literally two decades ago 😳
And is not the only case, mind you. Gameplay wise Bowser is a massive hit (Epitome of brute force in multiple ways, strong but very punishable fighter who is mostly likes head on confrontation), but because he for some reason doesn't understand his vision of Bowser is not the real one, his personality is butchered and so was his design for over a decade. Sakurai can really be stubborn.
@@N12015 What’s even more sad is characters like Steve are practically lifted from their source material. To see this next to these bastardized portrayals of the Kirby cast and Bowser is just unfair.
@@redwarrior4226 oh another thing. Sakurai only worked on like 3 proper Kirby games. Dream Land, Adventure, and Super Star. There isn’t even a “Sakurai era”, just three whole games and nothing more.
@@xx_squirtle8621Technically he also worked on AirRide. Unless by "proper" you mean like a mainline series game?
I would love Kirby’s side-b to be based off of the Jester instead of hammer. It’s an iconic ability, is more unique than the hammer, and could be made an actually good move. It would give him a disjointed, mid-range option to deal with swordies, and maybe he could charge it for a short time for a projectile to deal with zoners.
Yes it also goes with his theme!!
He is underrated and also you can use neutral special to gain ability so not to get camped
You covered the points I tell a lot of my friends: he is slow (can't keep up with other characters), light (dies too easily), and stubby with no projectile (has no range to speak of). The good normals he has (along with small hurt box) aren't nearly enough to compensate. I know you said you think he's underrated and that's fine, but I personally think he's bottom 5. Slow brawlers are just not cut out for Ultimate. That's why Ganon and Doc are so bad (I know Doc has some zoning/anti zoning abilities but I don't think they're very good). I used to think Incineroar was at the bottom too but somehow his playerbase started making it work, I'm skeptical they can keep it up though.
Would love to see an adult Link video. Why no one and everyone plays Link. Super popular amongst plebs, but completely unrepresented in high level tournament.
Having worked with a fan mod, kirby's copy ability is also a huge pain in the ass to code. Switching his moveset would help alleviate the coding struggle he is.
Sidenote, in the first kirby game, he could shoot out a puff of air that hurt enemies. Would be cool if he had that
Kirby's been done dirty in Smash since Melee, both moveset and representation wise.
Kirby is like a training wheel character for people who just started playing. He as multi-jump to help them recover and he also as a bunch of moves which are easy to mash or have decent kill power. He also has easy too learn bread and butter combos and his copy abilities help you learn about other characters in the cast. Things that are very good for noobies.
Lets be honest we all played kirby as kids
It is true that kirby specials are bad, but practicing parry and dodge you can get close very fast, and it's specials have some good utilities:
Up B can be used as spike if you dont land in the ground wich doesn't mean fall to the void but grab an edge, it has good combo potential at low percentages (Dash attack + Up B can force an air dodge from the rival where you can punish him) and it's little proyectile actually can be very good against characters with bad horizontal recover or light characters.
Down B it is usually used in the air for edgeguarding or trying to hit on high places, but it is actually much faster in ground, while in air has like 15 frames until does damage in ground it's like 9 wich is a huge difference, it is difficult to use but with moves like down tilt or by footstooling someone you can do a very good horizontal knockback and very good damage, also it is good for protection, not protect from proyectiles specifically but also for spikes, yeah, it may sound stupid but kirbys recovery is vertically so good that even below the stage you can down b and still go back. (it is recommended to practice it)
Neutral B its good you just need to learn the different combos of the characters with kirby, and only inhale non explosive proyectiles that have big damage (like samus charged plasma cannon) to ensure that even if they punish you, you will end with less damage than with taking the proyectile.
Side B Maybe it is laggy but in air it does double hit, you can jump and change direction with it making it very useful for edgetrapping, it can break shields with the double hit (only for big characters, unless there are platforms in the stage) and when charged it's the most powerful kirby move so if you break someones shield, they will need to pray for mercy from that huge hammer.
With all that aside, it is a nice video, and it is very hard to learn how to use kirby so i understand it is not too viable, kirby mains, you can take note from this comment xd
"It's very hard to learn how to use Kirby" Lmao
As a Kirby main I can say That yes nobody does indeed play kirby
I guess competitively, I swear Kirby is top 5 most common characters in 9-11 million GSP quickplay
This is how I would buff Kirby's specials:
Inhale: Kirby can now copy a character by swallowing their projectiles like in the Kirby games. This includes explosive projectiles and projectiles not from neutral-B.
Hammer Flip: Either rework it into Hammer Swing, a multihitting burst movement tool that also grants armour (intangibility in the Kirby games), or somehow incorporate the functionality of instantly charging the move after dodging an attack like in Forgotten Land.
Final Cutter: Much faster to come up and down, and the projectile is stronger too. Also has a brief grab-box at the beginning of the move that adds starter hits, dragging the opponent through the entire move with more damage, similarly to how it activates in the Kirby series.
Stone: Spikes all the way through the move and a smash input will produce a laggier but much larger and more powerful stone that can instantly break shields. Both versions of stone will also kill on stage at more reasonable percentages.
13:05 I think it would be better if Kirby could spit out any projectile into a star like you can with large projectiles because in the actual Kirby games it doesn't matter what you eat as long as it's a thing you can inhale you can spit out as a star. People to the character and makes him more viable
I'd like kirby so much more if he had a faster air speed. It would really complement his aerials.
Kirby was always my SSB character. I don't care if I can't compete, I am too old for that anyway 😂
As a Kirby main, one of the struggles I face often is timing and zoning. Hammer flip could be the down smash, and maybe could even have a reflector, like you mentioned, and side special should be a ranged burst like Plasma. And Up Special should be able to have the downwards fall part be cancellable, like Dedede’s up special.
The current move-set has a lot of room for improvement, but I still play Kirby on occasion. If he's meant to be a beginner-friendly character, I understand, but many ideas, such as the use of other copy abilities like Sword, Fighter, or even Beetle, were missed opportunities.
Kirby (along side Pit) was my favorite character in Brawl.
I remember picking up Kirby in SSB4 for the first time and remember feeling he had been totally gutted in that game.
1 buff to make him good: make his copy ability also copy the opponent's air speed (keeping his air acceleration) so that he can play in the air against fast characters and making the neutral B more worth using
Love listening to these videos while on my lunch break, glad to see this one here today as a nice surprise!
Also I don’t know if you take suggestions or not but a “why no one plays Wario” would be very interesting to see in the future!
I think what would be very cool for Kirby would be having side special scroll through a wheel of abilities from his home series that replace his down special. he would keep stone and hammer. but they would be an ability that he can select from.
If they replaced his fucking hammer with basically anything from his huge repertoire, with a disjoint, he'd be alright
But nooooo
Down B should be quicker and finish when the player releases the buttons. Neutral B should be quicker and mimic Villager's, but with the option to spit it out as a star or swallow it for a minor health gain (except bombs or electricity). Switch his dash attack to his Side B, but with aerial option. Then change his dash attack to the Kirby slide.
Gotta give him Gun Kirby from Forgotten Land
That's Joker's ability lmao
Man I'm hooked with your videos literally following all your channel. Seriously admirer your passion for games
Just give kirby puff's air speed ez
Man, I love Kirby cuz he is my best match up against my brother’s Bowser 😄
Just play a sword character
@@MrJ691 I beat my brother playing with Kirby soooooo no… I will keep playing Kirby against my brother’s Bowser
Correction about kirby's neutral b star, it SUPER kills, a very good projectile of your opponent gets careless. That being said, it's super situational since kirby only turns big projectiles into stars. A simple change imo would be to have kirby be able to spit every projectile as a star, and the power of the star would scale based on the power of the projectile. It'd SUPER help him deal with zoners
Good video, but remember, kirby has zoning tools against all Neutal b zoners.
Also, aerial hammer is a great shield break move, and grounded hammer is excellent for ledge trapping. Moving / jumping with a move that powerful is very valuable
They could kirby just by changing his up and forward B based off of the hat the color kirby is. Have a sword, hammer, boomerang, lightning bolt, drill, and or whatever else powers he has gained. At least then, you could fix his variety.
lol I liked the visual 'fanning out' of swordies when giving MU examples en masse 😆
I would love to see a video on Puff because these 2 initially had the same model and similar moves. Great video as always!
As a puff main I second this, I love playing puff (thanks melee) and it's rare I run into another puff main which makes me sad, also as far as competition is concerned only bassmage and Hbox play puff to my knowledge
You have obviously never seen Jejajeja play
I love this series. How about one on Terry, Ryu, and Ken sometime? They are my mains with Terry being my highest
Because he's always in the Arena mode, there's at least 1 Kirby main per 2 arena rooms
I main Kirbss getting kills with hammer is actually really cool because nobody expects the Hammer to work
final cutter always bothered me because in the base game kirby has to do a couple hits with the base cutter in order to activate final edge, maybe as a way to make this more accurate (and viable) it does the first few hits and then follows up with the final cutter and i think giving hammer the giant swing for when he's in mid air can help him a bit instead of him just having hammer flip
I used to main Kirby at the start of the game. I actually dropped him because he felt underwhelming at times and I kept having the "oh you only beat me because my character is a low tier/sucks" mentality so I started learning other fundamental based characters (Mario, wolf, lucina, cloud) and they have also given me a better perspective on how to play the game and Kirby better . I also learned that it wasn't that Kirby sucked. it was I had to get better
as a kirby main i've always found that every time i try to pick up another character and i think i'm better with them i end up going back to kirby and realizing that im even better with kirby after practicing with the other character
I always wondered how it would affect balance if they made copying your opponent more valuable, which would be in line with making Kirby's signature ability actually function as more than a niche gimmick.
My suggestions:
Keep his bad default specials, but copying your opponent gives Kirby all of their special moves.
Allow Kirby to retain an ability indefinitely regardless of damage or losing a stock.
Allow Kirby to copy an opponent's ability by inhaling their projectile (ex: eating a Samus charge shot = Samus Kirby)
This would make Kirby play around what he can get from the opponent while having it be worth the risk of going for a copy in the first place. A Mario isn't going to want to give Kirby Fludd and cape with all of Kirby's jumps, but can't fully camp Kirby cause one fireball gives the ability for free.
Kirby's good frame data means it can also likely combo with a lot of character's special moves. If not, one could even make Kirby's versions better than his opponent's in some way (faster, stronger, etc.). It could even be balanced per character to allow for a good 1v1 matchup.
I would bet that the developers don't want to make Kirby too similar to other lightweight characters, and so maybe my suggestions would have Kirby keep his unique disadvantage of being the only lightweight without speed, long-range, and zoning tools, but have a unique advantage/gameplan fitting of the Kirby series.
I think Kirby is due for a rework. I think having Kirby start out kind of weak but able to suck up stars left by enemy attacks to fend enemies off would be a good starting point, and then Kirby would be able to alter his playstyle between Fighter (+Suplex), Sword, Beam (+Mirror), a mix of the various elemental abilities, Hammer, and maybe Space Ranger (+Laser and Mecha) by inhaling different targets. You would be able to inhale allies who are standing still and not using a move to get the ability from them as well. This would both add opportunites to make Kirby better and give Kirby a bit more of that in-game feel where he can kind of do anything.
If Kirby was just a bit faster he would be high tier
*you're the only one here I will tell this to, since you seem to be reasonable.* There is no need for Kirby to be carried by a speed buff(as a kirby main myself *any kind of buff is not needed but would be considered extra),* and a lot of people are underestimating Kirby when you're not looking at them fundamentally. It was nice meeting you.😮💨
Kirby’s hammer in ultimate is definitely a massive improvement imo
Unironically? I know it's still a bad special move, but it actually does have some niche uses that can work surprisingly well (just don't use it in neutral lmao)
I wish they would increase his distance between jumps and give him access to his fast fall "deflate" from his games, Kirby would be so much better with better air mobility so he could actually act like an airborne fighter like Dede and Jigs can, in addition to his current crouch-heavy ground gMe
when you said shooting the star does no damage, its a good thing you added "i think" because it might be his strongest attack.
In every Smash game we've played, my brother always plays the pink puffer and he *keeps kicking my ass like I'm some piece of meat.*
Deadass if kirby's physics with his ground and air movement were buffed to be solid, he'd be an absolute menace to society. They might as well as make his crouch even lower while they're at it just to truly strike fear in people's eyes.
Side special should be cutter
It’s iconic and would give Kirby a little range
I think he is meant to be just an ""introduction character" to the game, and that's about it.
Need more jumps? Need to be able to land safely? Needs a proper Up-air to reach to ledge on top of the jumps? He has all that, should make any newbie comfortable for trying to play the game for the 1sttime and not be afraid of falling of stage by accident. He might be fun and all but again if fun is all that you are after is good character for that.
Kirby is a TERRIBLE introduction character compared to Pit, Lucina or Yoshi. An introduction character should be all-rounder or very fundamental based, neither of which fits Kirby due to very exploitable weaknesses.
@@N12015 Nop, those are good for competition players u wanna learn the game at a competitive level. When I say introduction character I mean something, that even a child can get and have fun. That's it nothing else to it.
Kirby side-b is only a viable move as a shield break punish. You can charge the move while pushing your stunned opponent closer to the edge of the stage and then kill at very low percent. It's one of the top 10 shield break punishes in the game in my opinion. If kirby had a consistent shield breaker setup i would have no problems with side-b being in his kit. As it is now, his side-b has killed me more times than my opponent simply by me accidentally inputting it instead of a B-reverse up-B when trying to recover. I would have a better record with my kirby if that move slot was simply empty and had no move assigned to it at all.
In the beginning cutscene, Kirby is the only fighter to escape Galeem and Darkon. Surfing on his warp star like Japan's friend Kakarot on his flying nimbus 筋斗雲, Kintōun. Yet Kirby cannot recover or travel the air horizontally. Bizarre. Forward Special should be like a Fox/ Falco illusion where Kirby warps to ledge. This combined with the ability to Up Special out of shield would balance him out while staying true to Sakurai's vision for his character.
Bear in mind that Melee Kirby is ridiculously slow for no real reason. He deserves to be in last place there, not second to last imho. I have no idea why the game developers did that to him in just that one game. Melee Kirby is fundamentally different/worse than Kirby in all 4 of the other Smash Bros games.