3D PRINTED Moka Pot - Brewing real coffee with Formfutura Volcano PLA
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2017
- I 3D printed a fully functional moka pot in Formfutura Volcano PLA. You can anneal the material without the usual shrinkage and then use it up to 160°C.
Download the Moka Pot from Thingiverse: www.thingiverse.com/thing:249...
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Lots of misinformation in the comments regarding safety :/
1. PLA itself is simply lactic acid, which is what builds up in our muscles from exercise and is largely responsible for muscle soreness the next day after some heavy physical activity - it's being produced by your body's metabolism as you read this, and there is always measurable amounts in our blood. It's also present in many foods, especially fermented dairy (cheese, kefir, sour cream). PLA is poly lactic acid, which is simply lactic acid that has been linked to itself in a chain. It does not contain BPA or any other xenoestrogen. In fact, the only plastic that contains trace amounts of BPA is polycarbonate.
2. PLA as a material is not only safe, but biocompatible. That means it can be used as a material for surgical procedures where something made out of PLA will actually be implanted in your body. This requires a much higher degree of safety/compatibility than merely passing something through your GI tract. I can speak from personal experience: I snapped my ACL skiing some years ago, and they cut out a piece of another ligament to create a replacement, then bolted the strip of knee meat directly onto onto both bones of my knee joint. They actually drilled holes into the bone, threaded them, and (hopefully using knippex cobras ;) ), screwed bolts into those bones to hold the new ligament in place until it grafted onto the bone by itself.
Those bolts were made entirely of PLA. Conveniently, PLA will eventually be broken down and absorbed just like any other lactic acid, but it takes a couple months or so. So the screws don't have to be removed, they just get metabolized (but slowly enough so they hold stuff in place long enough for it to heal.
3. PLA as a filament is only food safe if that specific filament is food rated (meaning FDA approved in the US at least, I'm sure there is something similar in the EU). This means that the feed resin was processed in a way that ensures nothing unsafe as leached into it from equipment etc., that the filament was likewise extruded with equipment that wouldn't leach anything or maybe extruded through stuff that had also extruded other things like ABS. And finally, it means that any additives/colorants mixed into the filament is also food grade. Most PLA filament is not food safe simply because it uses unsafe dyes to color it, so you do need to use filament that is explicitly rated for food contact. PETG is also safe and can be found in food grades.
4. Unfortunately, even if you use food grade filament, that doesn't make anything you print safe for food contact. Food safe filament is only one piece of that puzzle. The filament must be food safe, but so does every part of the 3D printer that it touches as it is extruded into a 3d printed object. As far as I know, there is no food-rated extruder and hot end available at this time.
5. If you're thinking about ignoring #4 for personal use... you really shouldn't. A standard E3D hotend seems innocent enough, right? Well, most brass contains 1-2% lead by weight, and lead has a much lower melting point than brass. This means it migrates to the surface as the brass alloy cools, and can leach out easily. The end result is that most industrial brasses, like the kind used in brass nozzles, leach lead out and onto anything they come into contact with at a much higher rate than one would expect given the amount of lead in the brass.
So you can definitely expect anything printed with a brass nozzle to contain lead. And there is no safe level for lead exposure. And it is cumulative, you basically want to minimize lead ingestion over your entire lifetime.
That's just one of the issues that one might not expect. Sure, you might use a stainless steel nozzle, and I wouldn't be surprised if that yielded mostly food-safe prints. But it might not, and I don't think anyone has really done the studies yet to make sure.
TLDR: for now, keep 3d printing away from your mouth.
Really useful info. Thank you.
One thing that I don't understand is why PLA parts are used in surgery when there is no way to make them even food-save, even though the material is fine. Where they printed in a different way or maybe mold casted?
@@Flobbled: metacollin never said the PLA Bolts were printed. But even if they were, they were most probably made in a special environment specifically for medical products.
There it would for sure not be done on a consumer machine but on a specifically built machine that is safe.
Theoretically it is not difficult to make PLA printed products safe. It just means effort in engineering and production.
Stainless steel is food safe, most cooking ware is made from stainless steel, even cast iron/iron is food safe though aluminum doesn't have to be food safe even though a lot of people have cooked food in aluminum containers for years ( i dont know why aluminum cans are food safe though) its not recommended. its however actually recommended to make food with iron tools if you dont eat enough meat and you are a girl because of the iron in blood and hence girls need more iron than boys.
Oh Funny thing Nurd Rage just posted a video to show why you can drink out of a aluminum can, it has a very thin plastic layer on the inside, he devolved the can leaving the plastic layer on the inside of the can.
Re point 5, does the lead migration occur during original casting of the nozzle, or at printing temperatures too?
So glad I found your channel! I love your explorations in 3D printing with engineering concepts and Fusion 360.
Very well done video and very well described.
I just have to say that was a very impressive way to show off this filament. I think this is a good indicator of potential future applications of 3d printing in the home. You pointed out the limitations of the experiment you did, basically not food safe rated but I see no reason that hurdle won't be overcome in the future.
> I see no reason that hurdle won't be overcome in the future.
How about the fact that FDM printers create small voids in the objects they print by the very nature of how they operate, and objects with small voids that can capture food are not food safe no matter what material they are made from?
There is no food safe FDM printed anything at any temperature.
I see we have a debby downer asshole in the chat. Its quite possible that FDM printing technology may reach a point where the gaps are negligible. Maybe we stay optimistic eh?@@lambdaman3228
Only thing missing was the pressure release valve! 😜
Florida Man gets shot in throat with plastic shot from coffee pot
pressure increases from boiling water to the point of pushing the hot water up into the top, which has a lid that is not shut tight. any pressure from the bottom should push the top open to release itself? If florida man uses a 50lb weight to tamp the coffee down he deserves to get plastic through the throat lol... pretty sure PLA would just crack though 😆
@@knifeyonline Insufficient.
@@knifeyonline I wouldn't use this design anyways, there are videos on youtube about it that don't look fun. It's basically an overpressure valve and if the wrong parts get blocked for whichever reason (e.g. because of coffee grain blocking it)...
@@Zyghqwyv my god 😂
Wow, incredibly well done!! Unglaublich gut gemacht!!
"You also need to store the material in a dry place, because it seems to absorb more moisture than regular PLA."
> uses it to cook coffee
+Monkeyheadtpc this is only bad for the filament: hydrolysis
Should not affect the final part.
Sollte nur ein Witz sein, hat nicht so gezündet offenbar.
Vielen Dank für das schöne Video und die gute Arbeit! Weiter so :-)
Well done. I love it. Keep thinking!
This is very cool! Great video, very interesting to see!
Superb work... and you managed to do all of that before your morning coffee :-) ... These filaments keep on getting better and more interesting properties. Is the volcano filament fire retardant too? (I mostly print enclosures for electronics projects and worry about them catching on fire). Cheers!!
Brilliant. I love it!
I would be a lot less worried about the plastic than the washer. I would swap that out for a Stainless steel one. There are a few metals used to fight rust on bolts and washers and none of them are food safe. It's probably zinc or mostly zinc, a bit better than "galvanizing" which had a lot of lead in it but not "good". Cadmium is also a common metal used on higher end hardware and it is also not good to consume.
In general it's probably not too bad since it is only touching the water. Coffee is fairly acidic and would leach out a lot more of what you don't want to consume.
Plastic and toxicity has been discussed a LOT in the home brewing community. Even with beer (pretty acidic + alcohol) white and clear plastics have a pretty negligible amount of plasticizer leaching. It is generally very inert. It's mostly the dies in colored plastics that are a worry. If I were going to use it every day I would look at the food safe specks on this plastic, but for a rare use novelty I wouldn't be very worried. Again I would be a lot more concerned with the heavy metal aspects of the washer.
S Koue most stainless steels aren’t suitable for induction ovens since they are not magnetic. Buying one with these special properties just for this proof of concept would be overkill - and expensive.
PETG is conaidered suitable even for medical use.
the intro itself already deserved the like - nice video! Keep on going :)
Bravo! You are very resourceful.
Going to be late for work now because I could not tear myself away. I own a metal mocha pot and am always worried that IT will explode. Absolutely on my list of things that should never be 3d printed, but you did it... Hot PLA with pressure. Still picture Stephan in 3d printed safety gear watching the coffee pot.
Your ad-honorem italian cityzenship has been shipped. Sorry for the delay, bad burocrcay
Very interesting, especially as a regular Bialetti does not work on an induction hob. But my Bialettis have a rubber gasket between top and bottom halves. Did you get such a good fit that this was not needed?
I love watching your videos! Would you recommend this Filament if I am to use it to print mugs to drink from? I know I would still have to cover the inside with resin to make it food safe but I'm not sure which filament to use.
Great, thorough video, once again. I've also had great luck with a modified PLA for high-heat environments.
Nice. Thank you!
I just saw your CR-10 review, and was happy to find a good and objective review. Then I find out that you're a lapavoni lever machine owner and eureka grinder (as I do). Well, you got one more subscriber 😊
Happy to hear that! Welcome!
placing that huge washer on the bed was a great idea. prevent warp and hold it down
This is very cool!
amazing!
Intro is implausible. By the time his coffee maker was finally printed, he would have fallen asleep from caffeine deficiency! :)
I recommend 3dk top from 3dk.berlin
This stuff is food safe and can withstand temperatures up to 230 degrees after annealing!
+Talimyaro Have worked with this filament and it actually is great concerning temperature resistance, but it has the shrinking problem. Not as much as regular PLA, but still a bit.
CNC Kitchen
I didn't notice much shrinkage but my part was also pretty thin walled.
If you want to go the extra mile you could design your coffee maker in a way that it compensates for the shrinkage ;-)
This would (of course) involve a lot of calibration and testing beforehand...
But in the end you'd have a coffee maker you can actually drink coffee from.
Deine Videos werden zunehmend besser! Endlich mal 3d Druck Videos mit gewissem ingenieurstechnischem Anspruch...
Really nice, I would print this in a pla without pigment, different companies use different chemicals to add colour, Reading the mdms would definitely be required before attempting anything like this, top marks great video👍😀
haha success! well, done!
time for me to wake up and smell the coffee and get into 3D prining, I guess! :D
I appreciate your knowledge and skill. A commercial brewer will be much cheaper.
Super clever! I was so curious as to how you performed the actual heating operation when I saw the thumbnail for this video. Your solution was very elegant. You should consider sharing the Fusion360 design process for larger designs like this in a video. I would happily watch a video of your work flow, even without any editing or commentary, as I find it very educational and really helps my F360 skills. Cheers!
A lot of people are discussing the possibility of PLA being toxic or not. I read that PLA is food safe, however further testing needs to be done.
The concern I have is the washer you placed in the bottom of the pot. It appeared to be a standard washer with a coating on it. Usually that coating is zinc to keep it from rusting. This is what I would be most concerned about because it is in direct contact with your water while you are heating it with the induction stove.
Look up Zinc Poisoning or Toxicity.
It is non-toxic, and technically can be made in to food-safe objects, same with PETG, but due to the layers resulting from FDM printing biological material can get in between the layers and bacteria can grow, which is very hard to impossible to clean and sanitize properly, so technically the items created from FDM printing are not food safe.
Amusingly putting it in the oven at over 100°C for up to an hour would do it.
@@macelius bummer for billions of people who ate from clay and wood for thousands of years
Could you try annealing it first and then see how it prints? I know you would have to raise the temperature but it would still be cool to see if you could print it and what the quality would be.
Just what i need, good review!
Going to use it for a mold to prepreg Carbon. Going to be in the oven in 8 hours, at 100C° 😁
Thanks!
That should be working.
Nice, you've got an eureka mignon :) cute little grinder!
Very nice espresso grinder you linked there ;D
Worth every penny!
wow this is so great. What filament would you suggest to use to make wax moulds? I want to make wax mould for lost waxing investment casting.
awesome!
Hi Stephan,
I've got a question for you that I can't find the answer on the net.
I printed a seal as a replacement for my old nespresso coffee cooker in TPU and wonder if It's safe now to make the coffee in it. Do you have the answer. Thanks I'll apreciate.
Thanks again for ail your astonished videos.
This is clearly fake! He did proper work before he had his morning coffee... :P
Very interresting stuff
I need to print very small (13mm) thin walled parts with threads. how bad is the shrinkage? also how about layer adhesion? I have always used esun pla prop for my parts since its strong but this part is so think even that is failing me.
So I printed small and big parts with threads and all of them still worked after annealing. I only noticed some warping if you have really flat parts. The layer strength is not the best, so if you have issues with normal PLA, then this also won't work. Try using higher printing temperatures to improve your layer adhesion.
CNC Kitchen interesting. I will try that and see what happens.
Very interesting
What temp does your coffe maker work at? like at what temp will the perculator start working at?
Is there anyway to make 3d printings non toxic for using with food??
Nice
Thanks for sharing this design and the great video.
Wouldn't it be better to add the washer without the first plastic layer? So it acts as the base and touches the stove directly?
Cool as a demonstration, probably won't hurt to test either just once. Not good for you several times and do not assume cleaning it will at all work, this is like pouring it on the floor, mopping it up again and then drinking it from a normal cup.
Worked with this in a hydroponics research setting. Like people mentioned, residues, non-sterile printer, PLA is found food-grade however the worst is that bacteria end up cultivating in the uneven surface caused by a FDM printer, impossible to get out and other cleaning agents won't get into the crevices well enough, a surface finish or spraying it is not good enough and will only make it more pleasing for the eye. You need a really thick coat that is food-grade, assume a few mm thick at least.
Do you know how they sterilise medical equipement ? They heat it in an oven. So the filament is extruded at +200°C and then the print is heated in an oven for 20 to 60min at 110°C. Enough to be sterilised. Then you make boil water in it. Using a nonstick pan or consuming sea food is probably more hazardous than that. www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/24/seafood-eaters-ingest-11000-tiny-pieces-plastic-every-year-study/
MrGemeco it's easy to not have an uneven surface you just sand or buffer it down
Any tips for food safe fillaments ( does not have to be PLA ) for stuff like cookie cutters and so on?
CNC Kitchen. Literally.
Next you should make a blender, mixer, toaster, ...
Hi! Ended up here because I need a part for my Krups coffee maker :-)
I'm planning on buying my first 3D printer today, Black Friday, and am looking at the Anycubic i3 Mega. Should this Volcano filament work well with that machine, you think?
Yes, the material works with that printer. Just keep in mind that you might need to dry it if the results are not perfect.
CNC Kitchen Vielen dank!
I'm impressed with the results.
I would never believe that PLA could withstand this temperature and pressure.
First thing that came to my mind tho was "what about the layers in contact with the flame?", but then you said about the induction oven and things came to sense. Impressive nevertheless. Would be interesting to see how the part reacts to flame heat.
Keep up with the interesting and good work!
A flame burns at over 2000°f. Pla melts at around 400°f. I’m pretty sure you know what’s gonna happen if pla comes in contact with a flame.
@@xiar5546 yeah, but there's no flame 🔥
@@danilolattaro well you could use this by just slowly placing it close to a camp fire enough to where it'll get hot and boil the water but not melt PLA. if people can boil water in a water bottle this way then i don't see why you couldn't with PLA.
Hello or Hallo!
It is cool that one out of my country is prouducing videos !
Pretty cool Videos on your TH-cam channel!
As a concept, this is cool!
Drinking it however...
You have the eureka mignon grinder you know what u r doing lol
You can use Formfutura STYX-12 instead of Volcano PLA, the STYX-12 are FDA compliant.
putting the knob on during annealing brings an interesting idea to me. I wonder if you could anneal multiple parts together at the same time so that their shrinkage is uniform. The parts should fit together as intended and the only issue would be the perimiters of the item. At least thats how my half caffinated brain is taking it right now....
If you try to anneal parts that are touching, I suspect there's a chance of them welding together so I'd keep an eye out for that
It looks really tasty... I would have took a sip :)
How do you know the thickness necessary to resist the heat ?
your channel really amazing thumbs up
Cool
How does this material stack up with makergeeks raptor series pla which is food safe?
Hey Stefan, how can I make a waterproof 3D print? I can't accomplish it. I'm using PETG. I raised wall thickness, infill and layer height, but I keep failing :(
Make your own 3D printed Coffee grounds as well.
How much compressive force it can take in 110 celsius? Real world application. Thanks.
If you don't have an induction stove, could you just put the whole coffe pot in a microwave oven instead (without the steelwasher)?
I like it it's good why does it have so many disk like ? And it is 100 percent waterproof
Health hazard is not only the filament. Your nozzle carries residue from your past prints at least, if not any other dirt collected on nozzle. If you have printed ABS, Nylon etc before this on same nozzle, you should be aware those filaments residue take a lot of time to clean out since they require higher temperature than the PLA.
YOU SCARED MY CAT WITH THAT ALARM
why not just get food grade silicon and coat the inside where any liquid might touch or just layer the whole thing. or food grade resin. ether one might work and since you will only need a little bit just enough to coat it. i don't think it will cost much to try it out. idk just an idea
i would think that coating the inside of the funnel might be problematic but with a redesign that would probably work.
Warping
Or print with petg which is food safe.
@@zanpekosak2383 PETG will become soft above 80°C and it cannot be annealed.
Ok interesting...how about PEEK?
I successfully installed a paper coffee filter into the bottom inner perimeter of a PLA funnel for a reusable filter for a 5 cup coffee maker!
How did you get it to be watertight tho
So, this raises two immediate and very important questions:
(well, 3 actually)
1. Is the filament capable of withstanding the temperatures involved.
2. Is the filament regarded as food safe?
3. Regardless of the material itself, does the printing process contaminate the print in a way that would render it unsafe for use with food?
Printing items that are related to food handling has a few innate extra risks unfortunately...
A description of your slicer settings might be helpful.
What would happen if you print it without the washer then anneal it and then try to make it work in the microwave
I wonder if you can use the same principle to make a mug that stays hot just using a warless charger for a mobile phone.
Does annealing all PLA's work the same way? or is it just a specific type PLA?
Works with all PLAs. Just heat it over the glass transition temperature and keep it there for some time. 100°C/30min should work for most of them!
Nice!!!
Going to have to build a "annealing oven" with a cheap heat bed and some MDF wood (and maybe a metal grill or something) the heat bed will eventually heat the entire box I would bet...this way I won't tie up the oven and can control the temperature with an Arduino Mini or Nano
Or do you have a video of one your made?
If you print a complex model wont the annealing process make it collapse
you say it's more than printing fidget spinners, but it's not food safe. Almost all plastics you can print are food safe, what people are saying when it comes to printing is that layer lines increases the likelihood of microbial (or their bi-products) getting into your food. If you want it food safe get rid of your layer lines, two ways I can see people doing it easily and that is sanding to a very fine grit, or using some epoxy resin coating over the food utensil so that you have one continuous layer on the surface of your print.
Where it be safe to use cup that print in Polypropylene (PP) filament for hot water?
Sing Wan Lew nope. Nothing really is safe unless you smooth it and the material itself is food safe. The printing process makes nice little hard to clean holes for bacteria to grow in, making it effectively unsafe without the smoothing.
Anonymouspock Bleach cleans those right out
Now you can create a kitchen utencil using 3D printer and an oven!
Would you have any interest in testing 3D Fuel's Pro PLA? They claim on their website that it has "a heat resistance rivaling that of ABS. That's even before any post-processing." They are claiming it has better temperature resistance than ABS without annealing, which seems too good to be true to me.
Sach mal, die Tasse, war die vor dem Backen schon dicht?
hab mir das Filament gekauft und auch eine Stoormtrooper Tasse gedruckt, aber die ist nicht dicht :/
War dicht. Ein bisschen über- und breiter extrudieren, 3 perimeter und dann klappt das normalerweise.
@@CNCKitchen Hab 3Perimeter genommen, ich Druck nochmal eine Tasse mit mehr Extrusion, Danke für den Tipp.
Wait did you put it on top of gas to heat it? XD
I'm having trouble extruding vulcano pla, on all of the prints it stopped extruding at the 1mm in height. I tried temperatures ranging from 200 - 250 degrees. Any ideas what's causing this? Thanks!
Volcano likes to be printed fast, so try not to use layers that are too thin (>0.1mm) and crank up the speed.
@@CNCKitchen thanks a lot! I'll give that a try
This guy totally sounds like klaus form American dad
2 years late, but lolling hard.
>:3 i wanna make pressure vessels out of this
gorgeous print, too bad it cannot be used, it would be so cool!
Can it be microwaved the material
great video. can you try that using Ktop?
Unfortunately I don't have any 3dktop left. I only had a small sample (~50g) to work with for another video, which a viewer donated.
Klasse :-)
I see a La Pavoni, I click like.
Wait, how did you heat the coffee? or did you heat it up somewhere else and then pour it in? I dont get it.
The water was heated and brought to a boil in the printed moka pot. That's the whole point :-D
CNC Kitchen that's what I don't get, was that one second clip of temp camera it on the stove? Did fire heat up bottom. Just need info. Do you have more videos on this? Like snippet clips we can see better shots?
It was heated on the induction stove top. Induction heating is used by magnetic induction instead of using a flame or heating element. So yes, he got it hot by putting it on the stove.
Direct quote from wikipedia on how it works, "a coil of copper wire is placed under the cooking pot and an alternating electric current is passed through it. The resulting oscillating magnetic field induces a magnetic flux which repeatedly magnetises the pot, treating it like the lossy magnetic core of a transformer. This produces large eddy currents in the pot, which because of the resistance of the pot, heats it."
I'm guessing this is why he put the metal washer/ring on the bottom of the pot. @CNC Kitchen, is this correct?
You are 100% right.
The water is heated by the washer which is in the bottom of the pot. And this washer is heated by induction. I did try this out beforehand with a 3D printed pot in which I boiled water. You can find a clip here: th-cam.com/video/T544wt8hqV8/w-d-xo.html
Gut morning everyone! I'm stefan!
You could have made a pour-over coffee maker so much easier and with better coffee. But I guess as a proof of concept it does the job
There is some debate on the safety of PLA. While PLA in itself is safe, you don't know what processing methods and additives were added to the filaments.
anyone have a link to the step file?
Does the plastic stain at all, since it's white?
+Xander Zoolander No, it doesn't, only if the coffee finds a way into your part, and that's technically also not staining.
Remember everything is food grade if you use a food grade coating
is it healty ?
Probably not.
Very nice print and show off haha, hopefully somebody does not actually drink za koffee
Klaus!