It's amazing how much John Adams accomplished despite his impatience and lack of tact. He lead the movement for independence from Britain -- which succeeded despite the hostility of the pro-British slave states. Then, as the first ambassador to Britain, he negotiated the Treaty of Peace ending the so-called "revolutionary" war. And he accomplished much more than that, while "populists" Franklin and Jefferson hobnobbed with the French nobility/aristocracy. He certainly learned about diplomacy from Franklin; but unlike Franklin, he knew when to drop the niceties and lay the issue on the table.
@@jnagarya519 And it was Washington who advised all to be wary of wars in Europe because those nationalists with the eyes of a Caesar and the reach of a Four Year Old were living examples of the anachronism which Europe was and remains, as a collection of Greco Roman CITY STATES, whose influence is tiny because it is the ineffective rule of a governance method from 2,500 years ago. And whose requests of equality of treatment are unfair in their equity of exchange We could do _much_ to learn from our more conservative Founders' wisdom in freeing ourselves from the yoke of European protection. Yes, we gain political influence to an extreme and unwarranted extent (North Stream betrayal) but we are still spending hundreds of billions to keep little children at bay who should have grown up long ago with the EU as the fundamental basis of a Bill Of Rights, a unified Armed Forces and a singular banking system whose combined taxation of 800 million Europeans does not need a 2% defensive budget to remain well defended. Nuclear weapons are the vehicle for ending massive nationalist equestrian classes and concentrating on civil development. Instead, Europe thinks they don't have to pay for anything. Then acts surprised when everyone moves on them, not least the United States which is demanding they play a role in an internal conflict among the slavs which has nothing to do with NATO. At. All. Europe is doomed. They commit suicide in their bedrooms, refusing to rejuvenate their greying middle class. Seek self-replacement by the most violent and nekulturny of MENA and Bantu Africans. And act surprised when their native populations refuse to miscegenate 'as ordered' (by Sarkozy and Merkel both) with their Great Replacement populations. We owe the Europeans the freedom to find their own fate and not be subjugated to our Imperialism. The Europeans owe their elites permanent displacement as an entirely corrupted leadership/wealth class. And as we have our own racial overrun problems, we should not be dragged down to their levels by pretending our positions are the same. Only on our own can we disenfranchise those who seek to betray us. Slave chained together through NATO, each side will be 'helped' by the other's elite into retaining power when it is that power's absolute corrupt influence which has destroyed both.
@@jnagarya519 Exactly. Granted, France was at war with Britain. You can't really defend your Motherland by sending your fleet to a foreign Power. How would that look to your own people? Put yourself in France at the time. Unless, of course, their Navy was HUUUUGE beyond measure! Was it?
Its very clear, not just from the show but his own accounts, that John had obviously viewed the French court as far worse in character than the British, whom, aside from the press, had treated him with great respect, and more importantly in a frank manner, something that John himself, was far more amenable too. Obviously, this is juxtaposed by Ben Franklin's own favouritism towards the French and intense dislike towards the British, with particular regard to George III.
On Franklin’s part, he was the first hand witness to the sour relationship between the British and the American colonies, trying in vain to balance what ever negotiation he could get. Whereas the French, he was the first hand witness to seeing the French warm to the concept of the American states, which blossomed to a friendship of unlikely cultures intrigued by each other. I think Adams stuck with the principles he closely associated with, both the Netherlands and the British had influence of the principles and foundation of the young United States. It’s a little ironic he was the one who pushed the hardest for independence in Congress.
This is not my area of expertise, but I think the main distinction at play here is that between culture and politics. Some of the Founders (notably Jefferson) saw political affinity between the United States and France, and not much cultural affinity between the United States and Britain. Others, like Adams, saw the United States as the cultural offspring of Britain, and only pushed pushed for independence one they started to believe that Britain was not interested in applying its own political principles to the colonies. A similar sort of logic informed thinkers across the Atlantic like Edmund Burke, who supported the American Revolution but vehemently opposed the French Revolution.
@@ER1CwCThis distinction can still he seen between republicans, who are in the tradition of Britain, and Democrats, who remain in the tradition of France. Even our idea of "rights" differ by country. The british idea of rights being "negative rights", thungs you're born with that the government shouldn't make laws against, while the french have the idea of positive rights, things you're owed by government.
@@SeanWinters I see what you're saying. I'd add the caveat that both U.S. Democrats and Republicans are significantly more individualistic than the French and British respectively in this analogy though.
True. But some people just don't have a head for languages. Besides, I can't imagine that the journey on a sailing ship which was attacked and had sailed through choppy weather would be conducive to learning another language.
This scene makes it seem like Adams, despite his intellect, couldn't seem to employ or utilize empathy in his diplomatic mission. It's like he couldn't put himself in France's proverbial shoes or understand the French state's mindset toward to England.
Which he truly did, they play the country bumpkin aspect hard in HBO series, the man is literally one of the smartest men to ever live. He respected the French, enough to empathize with their culture and long term dispute with England.
I'm a huge afan of John Adams but this was where he fails at because it's no secret he and his brother Sam where firebrand both of them. This doesn't jibe well with the aristocracy of France whom is bound by tradition and courtship the kind that Adams steadfast rejected.
My understanding is that France engaged British forces elsewhere in the world so they're contribution may not have been visible to the States, but was significant.
Thank you for posting this scene, I love it very much. 👍 John Adams is making a total fool of himself as in the scene before in the king‘s chamber. French is the most important language of that aera and french diplomacy famous all over the world.
Back then yes. Not anymore. Now it is us Americans who are the most powerful. If you can’t bother to know even a little English, we have nothing to discuss. Let the pond that is the Atlantic separate those who clearly have no business with one another. We gain nothing from the French other than good wine.
@@S0nyToprano Maybe🙂But french wine is too excellent to resist! And let‘s not forget how many finest arts were once created in France: haute cuisine, haute couture, haute parfum, Savoir-vivre…France is still most powerfull in here😀
@@S0nyTopranoright… so how would you feel then, with that attitudes, if nations repeatedly sent diplomats who couldn’t speak a word of English and expected you to accommodate to them?
Can there be anything more despicable or dishonorable than allying yourself with a historic enemy to fight those who , less than 20 years before, gave their lives to defend you against that very same enemy?
Cant blame him. After all he is british, ameican patriot but british ( english). The anglo saxons dispise french friends more than english or german enemies.
@@BucyKalman Many native English people (Anglo-Saxons) greatly disliked the French (Franco-Normans) kings who ruled the Kingdom of England; quite a number of English people felt liberated when they colonized the North American continent (away from the Norman influence and non-Anglo-Saxon monarchs).
Superficially perhaps, but I wouldn't compare an accomplished professional like John Adams with Zelensky. Nor was there anything as contemptible as Bandera-ism in the Revolution.
Stupidity, the United states was in no position To be like that at that time and if it wasnt for the french , the United states wouldnt have gotten indépendance at that time in my opinion
Britain was in the process of crushing the United States until Spain and France intervened. Britain had crushed George Washington at Fort Washington and had sent him running towards the Delaware river, Britain almost captured the entire American Congress at Philadelphia. In fact, the war was still not a guaranteed win even with French and Spanish help. Your country is the only reason they gained independence from my country, and they should acknowledge that. They were losing and had more casualties than us until you involved yourselves.
@@CeruleanSword "Your country is the only reason they gained independence from my country". No, France did help speed up the process, but independence would have happened with or without their help.
@@alanocarlossur9440 Blatantly untrue :) American forces were losing the war until the intervention of France. France’s intervention created uncertainty of outcome, and the war could’ve swung either way. The intervention of Spain and the Netherlands then began to swing the war in the colonies’ favour. Do you have any evidence claiming otherwise? I have seen the casualty rates, and I will provide the evidence easily. I don’t know what they’re teaching you in American schools, but as you can see, the result is people like you, disrespecting your saviours. You certainly don’t need me to tell you that, you have a French person here reminding you of it.
Franklin seemed like an ass. He had plenty of time to stop Adams and butt in. Almost like he wanted Adams to eff his diplomat career so he would be recalled.
I think there was a scene or two in the movie where John Adams implied that Franklin was spending more time indulging and luxuriating, living high on the hog and enjoying himself as a celebrity in France than he was in trying to get anything done. However true to life that may or may not be, I'd agree that I wouldn't have any stomach for it. John Adams was there for business, not to take an extended vacation.
I don’t see it that way. He had always accomplished his goals by being blunt, direct, and unrestrained. French diplomacy and society was the complete opposite of that
Zelensky reminds me far more of Reagan or Churchill. John Adams is a rather singular individual and the qualities that he bore are rarer in the political sphere. He was a family man, a devout Christian, and had a Puritan love of simple living and simple fellowship.
Franklin: A good diplomat observes much, acts little and speaks softly.
Adams: proceeds to yell.
It's amazing how much John Adams accomplished despite his impatience and lack of tact. He lead the movement for independence from Britain -- which succeeded despite the hostility of the pro-British slave states.
Then, as the first ambassador to Britain, he negotiated the Treaty of Peace ending the so-called "revolutionary" war.
And he accomplished much more than that, while "populists" Franklin and Jefferson hobnobbed with the French nobility/aristocracy. He certainly learned about diplomacy from Franklin; but unlike Franklin, he knew when to drop the niceties and lay the issue on the table.
@@jnagarya519
And it was Washington who advised all to be wary of wars in Europe because those nationalists with the eyes of a Caesar and the reach of a Four Year Old were living examples of the anachronism which Europe was and remains, as a collection of Greco Roman CITY STATES, whose influence is tiny because it is the ineffective rule of a governance method from 2,500 years ago.
And whose requests of equality of treatment are unfair in their equity of exchange
We could do _much_ to learn from our more conservative Founders' wisdom in freeing ourselves from the yoke of European protection.
Yes, we gain political influence to an extreme and unwarranted extent (North Stream betrayal) but we are still spending hundreds of billions to keep little children at bay who should have grown up long ago with the EU as the fundamental basis of a Bill Of Rights, a unified Armed Forces and a singular banking system whose combined taxation of 800 million Europeans does not need a 2% defensive budget to remain well defended.
Nuclear weapons are the vehicle for ending massive nationalist equestrian classes and concentrating on civil development.
Instead, Europe thinks they don't have to pay for anything. Then acts surprised when everyone moves on them, not least the United States which is demanding they play a role in an internal conflict among the slavs which has nothing to do with NATO. At. All.
Europe is doomed. They commit suicide in their bedrooms, refusing to rejuvenate their greying middle class. Seek self-replacement by the most violent and nekulturny of MENA and Bantu Africans. And act surprised when their native populations refuse to miscegenate 'as ordered' (by Sarkozy and Merkel both) with their Great Replacement populations.
We owe the Europeans the freedom to find their own fate and not be subjugated to our Imperialism. The Europeans owe their elites permanent displacement as an entirely corrupted leadership/wealth class.
And as we have our own racial overrun problems, we should not be dragged down to their levels by pretending our positions are the same. Only on our own can we disenfranchise those who seek to betray us. Slave chained together through NATO, each side will be 'helped' by the other's elite into retaining power when it is that power's absolute corrupt influence which has destroyed both.
well it was revolutionary. revolution implies a revolt lol
The good cop and the bad cop.
@@jnagarya519 Exactly. Granted, France was at war with Britain. You can't really defend your Motherland by sending your fleet to a foreign Power. How would that look to your own people? Put yourself in France at the time. Unless, of course, their Navy was HUUUUGE beyond measure! Was it?
Twelve ships of the line plus five frigates? That's a considerable naval fleet for the time.
No small group, but how formidable it was kind of depends on the size of British fleet they are being sent to engage.
@@thewiseoldherper7047The British had upwards of 25 ships of the line in New York I think.
Its very clear, not just from the show but his own accounts, that John had obviously viewed the French court as far worse in character than the British, whom, aside from the press, had treated him with great respect, and more importantly in a frank manner, something that John himself, was far more amenable too. Obviously, this is juxtaposed by Ben Franklin's own favouritism towards the French and intense dislike towards the British, with particular regard to George III.
On Franklin’s part, he was the first hand witness to the sour relationship between the British and the American colonies, trying in vain to balance what ever negotiation he could get. Whereas the French, he was the first hand witness to seeing the French warm to the concept of the American states, which blossomed to a friendship of unlikely cultures intrigued by each other. I think Adams stuck with the principles he closely associated with, both the Netherlands and the British had influence of the principles and foundation of the young United States. It’s a little ironic he was the one who pushed the hardest for independence in Congress.
Dude even wanted the executive to be treated like British court, which made him more suspect to opposition and rivals
This is not my area of expertise, but I think the main distinction at play here is that between culture and politics. Some of the Founders (notably Jefferson) saw political affinity between the United States and France, and not much cultural affinity between the United States and Britain. Others, like Adams, saw the United States as the cultural offspring of Britain, and only pushed pushed for independence one they started to believe that Britain was not interested in applying its own political principles to the colonies. A similar sort of logic informed thinkers across the Atlantic like Edmund Burke, who supported the American Revolution but vehemently opposed the French Revolution.
@@ER1CwCThis distinction can still he seen between republicans, who are in the tradition of Britain, and Democrats, who remain in the tradition of France.
Even our idea of "rights" differ by country. The british idea of rights being "negative rights", thungs you're born with that the government shouldn't make laws against, while the french have the idea of positive rights, things you're owed by government.
@@SeanWinters I see what you're saying. I'd add the caveat that both U.S. Democrats and Republicans are significantly more individualistic than the French and British respectively in this analogy though.
I cannot believe a man of such intelligence and highly capable as Adams didn’t learn some French before his visit! He had weeks to learn!
How much French do you expect a man to learn in a matter of weeks?!?
True. But some people just don't have a head for languages. Besides, I can't imagine that the journey on a sailing ship which was attacked and had sailed through choppy weather would be conducive to learning another language.
I'm pretty sure it takes more than a few weeks to become fluent in another language
I wouldn’t take this show for gospel as to whether or not he knew some French
He was battling illness and literally shooting at British ships. He was busy.
I believe the French King's words were: "Monsieur Franklin, it would appear that Monsieur Adams has taken leave of his senses."
French first minister I believe, not the king.
The French minister ended the conversation by saying "I have found this conversation passionating, Sir. If you please."
Number #1 most stupid comment in this video. Not just your translation is made up, you called the minister a king. 😂
@@princevesperalFascinating, not... passionating
@@therealCamoron There's no perfect translation. "Passionnant" in this context would be better rendered as "exciting" or "enthralling".
This scene makes it seem like Adams, despite his intellect, couldn't seem to employ or utilize empathy in his diplomatic mission. It's like he couldn't put himself in France's proverbial shoes or understand the French state's mindset toward to England.
Which he truly did, they play the country bumpkin aspect hard in HBO series, the man is literally one of the smartest men to ever live. He respected the French, enough to empathize with their culture and long term dispute with England.
It was a bad match, he did much better when he was sent to the Netherlands, and excelled as the first American ambassador to Great Britain.
He was very intemperate.
I'm a huge afan of John Adams but this was where he fails at because it's no secret he and his brother Sam where firebrand both of them. This doesn't jibe well with the aristocracy of France whom is bound by tradition and courtship the kind that Adams steadfast rejected.
Adams is the kind of man you want to stir the pot however France wasn't that type of game where you can shake things up and get what you want.
0:56 I can't stop laughing at his facial expression 😂
You know I just realized this Frenchie played the Jean Philip in the sopranos 😮
My understanding is that France engaged British forces elsewhere in the world so they're contribution may not have been visible to the States, but was significant.
Crazy to think the guy who directed this would go on to direct Cats....
Yes that still confused me to this day
I'm surprised Adams wasn't kicked out of France completely.
I mean, that's some pretty poor diplomacy.
Probably because he was Ben Franklin's friend, and they dealt with Ben much more.
In 1778, Britain had 6 ships-of-the-line in America. So France's 12 is twice as many. And then Spain joined France!
Adam's was basically a good intelligent man, if a bit crude around the edges to the ire of the more Cosmopolitan Franklin.
From that point we where known as loud and rambunctious, thank you john adams.
Is kind of surreal to think that there was a time when America had to go around and beg for military and financial support. lol
Who Evers idea it was to send Adam's dam lol
Thank you for posting this scene, I love it very much. 👍 John Adams is making a total fool of himself as in the scene before in the king‘s chamber. French is the most important language of that aera and french diplomacy famous all over the world.
They should have sent someone who spoke French. Ridiculous.
Back then yes. Not anymore. Now it is us Americans who are the most powerful. If you can’t bother to know even a little English, we have nothing to discuss. Let the pond that is the Atlantic separate those who clearly have no business with one another. We gain nothing from the French other than good wine.
@@S0nyToprano Maybe🙂But french wine is too excellent to resist! And let‘s not forget how many finest arts were once created in France: haute cuisine, haute couture, haute parfum, Savoir-vivre…France is still most powerfull in here😀
@@S0nyTopranoright… so how would you feel then, with that attitudes, if nations repeatedly sent diplomats who couldn’t speak a word of English and expected you to accommodate to them?
@@S0nyToprano Voilà qui est passionnant, Monsieur
Dawg was like I hate England more than the French
Average yankee in any european country
Can there be anything more despicable or dishonorable than allying yourself with a historic enemy to fight those who , less than 20 years before, gave their lives to defend you against that very same enemy?
Beats slavery
What did the French guy say in French to adams?
"I've found this conversation fascinating, Mister. Please [leave]."
mgmhmhmmmmmmmm he’s gonna die isn’t he
What movie or tv show is this from?
John Adams. Its a miniseries from the 00s.
The Smurfs.
Darude Sandstorm
HBO
It was Adams who won the day.
Cant blame him. After all he is british, ameican patriot but british ( english). The anglo saxons dispise french friends more than english or german enemies.
All English kings from the Norman invasion up to the Tudors were French or of French descent.
@@BucyKalman
Many native English people (Anglo-Saxons) greatly disliked the French (Franco-Normans) kings who ruled the Kingdom of England; quite a number of English people felt liberated when they colonized the North American continent (away from the Norman influence and non-Anglo-Saxon monarchs).
These Anglo-Saxons ruled most of the known world, a hell of lot better than the Gaul's that's for sure.
what did the ambassador say in french
Mister I found our conversation very interesting (sarcastic tone). If you don't mind ( polite way to say get out of my face)
@@davidmcmurray1767 he told this a private conversation. please.
John Adams was a staunch conservative for his era...
Descedant of Puritans, so...yeah.
I find our conversation fascinating sir. Now get lost! (A cynic: please)
this is like Ukraine and America in 2023
How is that? America uses Ukraine to make more money for the war profiteers and weapons manufacturers at the expense of Russian and Ukrainian lives.
Superficially perhaps, but I wouldn't compare an accomplished professional like John Adams with Zelensky. Nor was there anything as contemptible as Bandera-ism in the Revolution.
@@JGalt-em4xu Ukraine is becoming a country before my eyes just like America in 1812 ...
@@towada1066Ukraine was a country before you were born. what are you talking about lol.
@@towada1066 uh no
Stupidity, the United states was in no position To be like that at that time and if it wasnt for the french , the United states wouldnt have gotten indépendance at that time in my opinion
Britain was in the process of crushing the United States until Spain and France intervened. Britain had crushed George Washington at Fort Washington and had sent him running towards the Delaware river, Britain almost captured the entire American Congress at Philadelphia. In fact, the war was still not a guaranteed win even with French and Spanish help. Your country is the only reason they gained independence from my country, and they should acknowledge that. They were losing and had more casualties than us until you involved yourselves.
@@CeruleanSword Yes exactly, arrogance and hubris about that event on the part of the American seem so disgenuous
@@CeruleanSword "Your country is the only reason they gained independence from my country". No, France did help speed up the process, but independence would have happened with or without their help.
@@alanocarlossur9440
Blatantly untrue :)
American forces were losing the war until the intervention of France. France’s intervention created uncertainty of outcome, and the war could’ve swung either way. The intervention of Spain and the Netherlands then began to swing the war in the colonies’ favour. Do you have any evidence claiming otherwise? I have seen the casualty rates, and I will provide the evidence easily. I don’t know what they’re teaching you in American schools, but as you can see, the result is people like you, disrespecting your saviours. You certainly don’t need me to tell you that, you have a French person here reminding you of it.
@@alanocarlossur9440 No Sir, you're wrong.
John Adams was the original President Zelensky.
Lol not a bad point
your opinion is thrash
Stand before a mirror with the word “idiot” drawn on it
Franklin seemed like an ass. He had plenty of time to stop Adams and butt in. Almost like he wanted Adams to eff his diplomat career so he would be recalled.
Franklin did not expect that his friend who was in favor of French aid would endanger that aid with all his obstinacy
I think there was a scene or two in the movie where John Adams implied that Franklin was spending more time indulging and luxuriating, living high on the hog and enjoying himself as a celebrity in France than he was in trying to get anything done. However true to life that may or may not be, I'd agree that I wouldn't have any stomach for it. John Adams was there for business, not to take an extended vacation.
Why did they portray Adams a god damn idiot? He wasn't a dirt farmer,ffs.
I don’t see it that way. He had always accomplished his goals by being blunt, direct, and unrestrained. French diplomacy and society was the complete opposite of that
he reminds me of zelensky
Don't you dare compare John Adam's with that rat! Good day sir!
Recency bias is a crazy thing. I suggest educating yourself before you say even more stupid things like that.
Zelensky reminds me far more of Reagan or Churchill. John Adams is a rather singular individual and the qualities that he bore are rarer in the political sphere. He was a family man, a devout Christian, and had a Puritan love of simple living and simple fellowship.
@@celebrim1dont compare Churchill with Zelinsky you rat
He was no diplomat, certainly, but you always knew where you stood with him!