This is the unfortunate effect of direct injection engines with EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation). This video shows you how bad it can be. I have seen worse. Unfortunately it dose need to be cleaned manually and preventative work needs to be done as explained by Max. Max thank you for pointing out to your viewers the sneaky hidden bolt. 🙌
Thanks for your comments. As I mentioned in the comments, the EGR is involved with the carbon build up, but not the creation of it. Many turn to EGR delete as an option, but as I have mentioned in other comments, as it is illegal, I do not consider it an option. Yes, I also have seen worse, this just happens to be the one that I did a video on. There is no real way to get the carbon out without creating other issues on the way out the exhaust system - manual cleaning must be done. Then preventive maintenance can be done after with chemicals to try and keep it clean. I knew this would be a hot topic! Everyone has thoughts on the matter. I can only go on what I have personally experienced over the years dealing with this issue. Thanks again for your comments. 👍😉
100% best way to clean is pull apart ,i found oven cleaner and a pressure washer but im hundreds of km from a acid tank to send it in, good vid nice job
Yes you are correct. I have heard of oven cleaner being used, although I've never done it myself. Removal and cleaning is the only way to remove the carbon safely. 👍
@MiracleMAX i understand, we use hho cells aswell , family has used them for nearly 50 years , they keep the combustion chamber , exhaust very clean , even if you just put a few hundred mls of gas per min into the air box. low amounts dont mess with the O2. they make a big difference on deisels, always amazed me on old school deisels how much cleaner the exhaust was even under load zero smoke, and very low nox, freind is a retired mechanical engineer he tested his old vw beetle , without the cell switched on his omissions were terrible , with the cell switched on the omissions were so low it amazed the guys , it was lower than a modern car. but youve got to do it right and safe using safety devices etc. im not sorry using them all these years.
Hi Max, you want see wet carbon, wait till you have to Hyundai i40, I took the intake of to clean and couldn't even see the swirl flaps and the were stuck, I eventually cleaned enough to see the flaps only to find two missing, the are made of plastic. All cleaned and back together, 8 hours from start to finish and ordered another intake and another 6 hours. Bought a small catch can from Western Filters and no room in the engine bay, after making a few brackets and some modifications to the engine cover it fitted. Drained twice a week and has a very thick sludge. What chemical do put in your Ultrasonic Cleaner? I have just started to use Simple Green Multi Cleaner, big parts go into a plastic bag with the solution and taped up up with electrical tape (small parts in a zip bag) and into the water of the ultrasonic cleaner, this way I only have a small amount of chemical to dispose off and the water stays clean in the ultrasonic cleaner. Thanks for posting, I will be cleaning the intake every 50k.
Great to hear from you Rich. Not unusual to see swirl flaps break or disappear. A bit scary to think of where they go! Depending on how bad they are, some just quote on a new manifold as it works out cheaper than replacing the swirl flaps and cleaning it. I just used CT-18. You can use an 'official' ultrasonic cleaner, but it gets pretty pricey. I use oven bags for some parts - it copes with the heat OK. It's a good idea to keep the water clean. To be honest, I forgot in this case. 🤦♂️ Regular preventive maintenance is the only answer. Hopefully the catch can will help with the process. Thanks for your comments
Beware those catch cans with paper filter, they can cause pressure build up in the crankcase causing oil leaks past the seals. I've seen several cars getting multiple rear main seals fitted and still leaking
JFYI - graphite (carbon powder) is a lubricant.. The problem are chunks of it getting dislodged and blocking valves from closing correctly, not to speak of the oily-soot-smoke that's coming out of the crank-case (caused by blow-by) which is being put into the air-intake of the engine (in my case, Mitsubishi Triton MN, 2.5DiD 4D56U engine) right before the turbo charger - which is being mixed with the EGR-gas right before the manifold, which then really builds up and blocks the intakes. Catch can's should (in theory) catch most of the oily-soot.
Apropos 'preventative maintenance'.. how is this going to work out vis-a-vis the common-rail-injector lines (200 bar I think) and their finite tighten-loosen-cycles? On the Mitsubishi 4D56U engine this limit is at 7 cycles, then they have to be replaced - and they are costly (for what they are).
Mitsubishi recommend injector pipes need to be replaced every 6 times. It's in the owners service book that we stamp. Keep in mind, they need to come off to do the valve clearances, so that is an ideal time to do a carbon clean. That way you are only replacing the pipes when you would normally do them for the valve clearance adjustments. That is the customers cost stipulated by Mitsubishi. Sure cheaper than a fuel leak under the rocker cover into the engine.
Hi max, I would have liked to see a comparison for driveability before and after, or even a dyno test pre and post. Im a mechanic too, and the inlet on my diesel is way worse than what you show in this vid. It would be cheaper for me to replace the inlet man entirely, however my car still has a ton of power and excellent economy. Catch cans can help, but do void warranties.
I agree. I would have liked to do a comparison, however, the customer made comment that they noticed an increase in power, fuel economy and ease of starting. All without any input from me. I'm sure different engines would respond differently due to many different factors. I agree, some do decide to replace the manifold. Some also have a clean one in stock to change over to save time and then clean the other, ready for use on another engine. Thanks for your comment. 👍😉
Sorry Max but what about the actual head? I have seen a device which covers the inlet and smashes walnut shells into and immediately sucks them out of the head.
Yes, you are correct. That would be the best option. I did mention it in the video description as well as in the video itself. th-cam.com/video/OuR3-TU1cXg/w-d-xo.html Unfortunately I don't have that unit. I have seen them made, including using a shop vacuum to remove the waste. Next on the tool list......
Remove and refit dpf for roadworthy every yr only leave it on for the hour or so it takes for check engine will last five times longer and you wont have to replace dpf ever
If you just blank off the egr all if this mess is gone and your oil keeps way cleaner for more kilometers. We all know this got nothing to do with regular oil change. the egr is the main component for this problem.
The carbon is created by the combustion process. The EGR recirculates some of those gasses to lower the NoX gasses due to temperature changes. To blank off the EGR is not legal, therefore I can not recommend it.
I drive a TDI ALH in North America and owned it for 20 years. I've had to spend thousands of dollars to get my intake manifold cleaned (four times). I'm going to try to do it myself for the first time and save some $$$. When I do it I will be doing an "EGR delete" but not really delete the EGR, just the hot air cooler so no recirculated exhaust is going back in.
EGR gas is EXPECTED by the ECU and proper function of the engine.. if u 'delete' it the ECU program needs to be adjusted to account for this, otherwise u can destroy ur engine.
@@joansparky4439 my exhaust gas cooler looked pretty clogged up with carbon so I don’t thing anything was getting through. What is more, it’s a common delete on TDI ALH and I haven’t read about any damage.
I guess manufacturers are required to fill emission requirements as stated by law to care for the environment. Emission levels have dropped due to these features - love them or hate them.
This is the unfortunate effect of direct injection engines with EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation). This video shows you how bad it can be. I have seen worse. Unfortunately it dose need to be cleaned manually and preventative work needs to be done as explained by Max. Max thank you for pointing out to your viewers the sneaky hidden bolt. 🙌
Thanks for your comments. As I mentioned in the comments, the EGR is involved with the carbon build up, but not the creation of it. Many turn to EGR delete as an option, but as I have mentioned in other comments, as it is illegal, I do not consider it an option.
Yes, I also have seen worse, this just happens to be the one that I did a video on. There is no real way to get the carbon out without creating other issues on the way out the exhaust system - manual cleaning must be done. Then preventive maintenance can be done after with chemicals to try and keep it clean.
I knew this would be a hot topic! Everyone has thoughts on the matter.
I can only go on what I have personally experienced over the years dealing with this issue.
Thanks again for your comments. 👍😉
100% best way to clean is pull apart ,i found oven cleaner and a pressure washer but im hundreds of km from a acid tank to send it in, good vid nice job
Yes you are correct. I have heard of oven cleaner being used, although I've never done it myself. Removal and cleaning is the only way to remove the carbon safely. 👍
On ya Mad Max. Another top notch video.
Thanks heaps! 😊👍
Great video with excellent advice Max, including a bit of comedy in the mix 😁👌🚘🚗
Thanks mate! I appreciate your feedback.
many years ago we put a catch can and egr delete , no issues since
There are solutions, but as I said before, I can only suggest legal ones.
@MiracleMAX i understand, we use hho cells aswell , family has used them for nearly 50 years , they keep the combustion chamber , exhaust very clean , even if you just put a few hundred mls of gas per min into the air box.
low amounts dont mess with the O2.
they make a big difference on deisels, always amazed me on old school deisels how much cleaner the exhaust was even under load zero smoke, and very low nox, freind is a retired mechanical engineer he tested his old vw beetle , without the cell switched on his omissions were terrible , with the cell switched on the omissions were so low it amazed the guys , it was lower than a modern car.
but youve got to do it right and safe using safety devices etc.
im not sorry using them all these years.
@closertothetruth9209 Interesting, good to know
Very well explained. 😊 . It's a JOB I have to do soon .
Have fun! 🤔
Hi Max, you want see wet carbon, wait till you have to Hyundai i40, I took the intake of to clean and couldn't even see the swirl flaps and the were stuck, I eventually cleaned enough to see the flaps only to find two missing, the are made of plastic. All cleaned and back together, 8 hours from start to finish and ordered another intake and another 6 hours. Bought a small catch can from Western Filters and no room in the engine bay, after making a few brackets and some modifications to the engine cover it fitted. Drained twice a week and has a very thick sludge.
What chemical do put in your Ultrasonic Cleaner? I have just started to use Simple Green Multi Cleaner, big parts go into a plastic bag with the solution and taped up up with electrical tape (small parts in a zip bag) and into the water of the ultrasonic cleaner, this way I only have a small amount of chemical to dispose off and the water stays clean in the ultrasonic cleaner.
Thanks for posting, I will be cleaning the intake every 50k.
Great to hear from you Rich.
Not unusual to see swirl flaps break or disappear. A bit scary to think of where they go!
Depending on how bad they are, some just quote on a new manifold as it works out cheaper than replacing the swirl flaps and cleaning it.
I just used CT-18. You can use an 'official' ultrasonic cleaner, but it gets pretty pricey. I use oven bags for some parts - it copes with the heat OK. It's a good idea to keep the water clean. To be honest, I forgot in this case. 🤦♂️
Regular preventive maintenance is the only answer.
Hopefully the catch can will help with the process.
Thanks for your comments
@@MiracleMAX Just out of interest sake , what size ultrasound do you have / find works?
@@rossbeck1595 I use a 30 Lt tank
@@MiracleMAX Thankyou
Hi Max. Great video, but you didn't discuss why it happens - Exhaust Gas Recirculation. And what the owners options are to stop it happening "proper"
I did list that as a cause in the comments. It is not legal to do a delete, so I don't list it as an option.
Beware those catch cans with paper filter, they can cause pressure build up in the crankcase causing oil leaks past the seals. I've seen several cars getting multiple rear main seals fitted and still leaking
Good advice! You get what you pay for. I've also heard of people connecting the hoses backwards which creates all sorts of havoc
JFYI - graphite (carbon powder) is a lubricant..
The problem are chunks of it getting dislodged and blocking valves from closing correctly, not to speak of the oily-soot-smoke that's coming out of the crank-case (caused by blow-by) which is being put into the air-intake of the engine (in my case, Mitsubishi Triton MN, 2.5DiD 4D56U engine) right before the turbo charger - which is being mixed with the EGR-gas right before the manifold, which then really builds up and blocks the intakes. Catch can's should (in theory) catch most of the oily-soot.
That's a great explanation of the problem, thanks for sharing!
Apropos 'preventative maintenance'.. how is this going to work out vis-a-vis the common-rail-injector lines (200 bar I think) and their finite tighten-loosen-cycles?
On the Mitsubishi 4D56U engine this limit is at 7 cycles, then they have to be replaced - and they are costly (for what they are).
Mitsubishi recommend injector pipes need to be replaced every 6 times. It's in the owners service book that we stamp. Keep in mind, they need to come off to do the valve clearances, so that is an ideal time to do a carbon clean. That way you are only replacing the pipes when you would normally do them for the valve clearance adjustments. That is the customers cost stipulated by Mitsubishi. Sure cheaper than a fuel leak under the rocker cover into the engine.
Hi max,
I would have liked to see a comparison for driveability before and after, or even a dyno test pre and post. Im a mechanic too, and the inlet on my diesel is way worse than what you show in this vid. It would be cheaper for me to replace the inlet man entirely, however my car still has a ton of power and excellent economy. Catch cans can help, but do void warranties.
I agree. I would have liked to do a comparison, however, the customer made comment that they noticed an increase in power, fuel economy and ease of starting. All without any input from me. I'm sure different engines would respond differently due to many different factors.
I agree, some do decide to replace the manifold. Some also have a clean one in stock to change over to save time and then clean the other, ready for use on another engine.
Thanks for your comment. 👍😉
Our fuel is crap, but what do you think about additives? Will this help?
Only as a maintenance program.
Sorry Max but what about the actual head? I have seen a device which covers the inlet and smashes walnut shells into and immediately sucks them out of the head.
Yes, you are correct. That would be the best option.
I did mention it in the video description as well as in the video itself.
th-cam.com/video/OuR3-TU1cXg/w-d-xo.html
Unfortunately I don't have that unit. I have seen them made, including using a shop vacuum to remove the waste.
Next on the tool list......
Best remedy for this in a diesel was EGR fix and putting water methanol injection 😂 and on petrol just getting a port injected car 🤣
Good to know
Remove and refit dpf for roadworthy every yr only leave it on for the hour or so it takes for check engine will last five times longer and you wont have to replace dpf ever
There is always a work around. I can only recommend the legal ones.
Thanks for your comment.
If you just blank off the egr all if this mess is gone and your oil keeps way cleaner for more kilometers. We all know this got nothing to do with regular oil change. the egr is the main component for this problem.
The carbon is created by the combustion process. The EGR recirculates some of those gasses to lower the NoX gasses due to temperature changes. To blank off the EGR is not legal, therefore I can not recommend it.
I drive a TDI ALH in North America and owned it for 20 years. I've had to spend thousands of dollars to get my intake manifold cleaned (four times). I'm going to try to do it myself for the first time and save some $$$. When I do it I will be doing an "EGR delete" but not really delete the EGR, just the hot air cooler so no recirculated exhaust is going back in.
I hope it goes well for you
@@MiracleMAXHow much can a procedure like this cost $$$???
EGR gas is EXPECTED by the ECU and proper function of the engine.. if u 'delete' it the ECU program needs to be adjusted to account for this, otherwise u can destroy ur engine.
@joansparky4439 Well put!
@@joansparky4439 my exhaust gas cooler looked pretty clogged up with carbon so I don’t thing anything was getting through. What is more, it’s a common delete on TDI ALH and I haven’t read about any damage.
Gasoline
What do you mean by gasoline?
All this anti pollution bullshit needs to be removed.
All it does is stuff engine's and ends up robbing power and using more fuel. 🤬🤬🤬
I guess manufacturers are required to fill emission requirements as stated by law to care for the environment. Emission levels have dropped due to these features - love them or hate them.