Much love from your UK cousin here for the help. Things sort of work the same, but your insight is appreciated. I think I'm going to rent for one year, until I have a bit more job stability, then buy outright. I'd be in need of at least one bottle for around 30/40 years, but had no idea the bottles were so cheap.
The problem comes when you need them refilled. They will need hydrostatic testing periodically. If the test date has expired they need to be sent out for testing, at your expense and may take weeks before you get them back. Leasing includes the testing and repairs to the valves. Leasing is usually a better deal.
Bugger that, it's so easy to buy shielding gas bottles in Australia, but they're not cheap, I got the smallest bottle, Argon. I'm teaching myself tig welding so I gotta buy 2 more gas bottles 1 for welding stainless steel & 1 for aluminium. I'm getting a oxygen & LP gas set up for cutting & soldering & bronzing it's hotter & cheaper than using Acetylene. I learned that in the automotive industry Making both radiators for cars, trucks & powerstations. I left the industry, not long after plastics came into production. The last car I owned that didn't have plastic tanks was a 6 cylinder LJ Torana S.
To elaborate on my reply to Nate: As I mentioned, the cylinder rental/lease thing is mainly an east-of-the-rockies thing. Out west where I live, customer-owned cylinders are the rule rather than the exception, except for companies that use large amounts of compressed gas, in which case it is more cost-effective to lease. I paid $239 for a K cylinder of oxygen, and $339 for a T cylinder of C15 (85%Ar/15%CO2). I may trade up to a T cylinder of oxygen next time, but I was warned by the supplier that they are seldom stocked so I may have to wait for a fill on that size cylinder. I also paid $219 for an A4 cylinder (approx. 145cu-ft) of acetylene. I may trade up to an A5 or WTL cylinder next time so I can run larger welding tips (A5=350cu-ft, WTL=390cu-ft). Keep in mind I don't buy from little outfits. I buy from Praxair, which is the largest gas manufacturer and supplier in North and South America. Supposedly they have been approved to merge with the German Linde group, so we will have to see if that changes the equation. I doubt it, since there are literally millions of customer-owned cylinders on this side of the country. I was told that if anything changed it would likely be with acetylene cylinders, where they would continue to fill/exchange currently customer-owned cylinders but would no longer sell new ones - new acetylene accounts would be lease only. So if you live out here and want an acetylene cylinder larger than a B tank, you might want to get it now! Finally, there are no 250cu-ft, 290 cu-ft, or 390cu-ft standard high-pressure cylinders. A standard K cylinder like Chase's oxygen cylinder holds 220cu-ft at 2200psi. A T cylinder, which is what Chase has for shielding gas, holds 330cu-ft at 2640psi. You can also get a 3K cylinder that holds around 300cu-ft at 3000psi, a 4k cylinder that holds about 420cu-ft at 4000psi, and a 6K cylinder that holds about 584cu-ft at 6000psi. The latter two sizes are only for inert gases and have a different valve vs the K, T, and 3K cylinders. Also, you REALLY don't want to drop the ultra-high pressure cylinders on your foot! A standard K cylinder weighs 133lbs empty. The 3K weighs 189lbs! The 4K and 6K are both made of chromoly, so the 4K is actually lighter than the 3K at 145lbs, while the 6K comes in at a foot-crushing 303lbs! They weight and different regulators are the reasons I won't go bigger than a T cylinder, which weighs 143lbs.
Only time you lease is if you refill more than 4 times a year. Also never use air gas, they are always over priced. Unless it’s your only option I literally refuse to use them. They are 2x the price of my LWS.
Is it both male and female tank cylinder valves available where the argon gas regulator is threaded to on an argon tank cylinder? What is the size and thread pitch of the gas outlet fitting on the gas regulator? Thank you for you patience.
I'm in Southeast Ohio. You buy their tank and exchange when empty. They allow you to buy a small tank and pay for fill. When it's time to exchange you can get a large tank and no extra cost. Just have to pay for the extra gas. Pretty reasonable, actually.
I agree, for the individual who might take a couple years to use a bottle the bottle Definitely buy them. If you have a high demand for bottled gasses like a auto repair shop or welding business then leasing makes sense.
Damn....those are some big tanks...I know this video is a few years old but something else to keep in mind is the people who refill your tank want to see a sticker or stamp that the bottle has been tested. Most are good for 10 years then have to be re-tested at your expense if you own it. Some places will not fill personal tanks also. Just an FYI. I also own my tanks, I won't lease anymore. I don't weld enough to warrant it.
I guess I'll never know how good my welder welds with gas. at these prices i will stay with ugly flux core.good argument for DIY welders to stay with flux core welding. not as clean or fancy welds but so much cheaper and does the job.
Iam thankful for my local welding company, only about 15 minutes away. The other great thing is that when you get a bottle of anything you buy it and not lease it, it's not really yours tho. You have to take it back too them when you need it refilled. Only have to pay for refill, you get a different bottle so no worry about testing.
Every 5 years you are required to pressure test bottles. While I do agree that on paper it costs a lot to lease the bottles but you pay the 4 years then just exchange the bottle.. it may be about the same. It’s also easier to transport more than a bottle if you have to drive a long distance. You can order tanks for your destination with a exchange making you legal to transport.. (dot says 2 bottles max non commercially / no cdl) so there are many factors to weigh out in this kind of decision. Obviously if you only weld in one place it may make more sense to buy. Thanks for sharing. Most don’t even know.. lol
My lease on 100% argon for my big machine is $70 a year now for the big bottle. With lease i don't have to worry about expired tank certification. In texas
You can buy bottles on Amazon, in some cases full with shipping included in the price. I'm lucky, we have Norco, Praxair and Airgas all within a few miles where I live. Yes, Airgas pricing is out of my budget...
I agree in the long run it makes sense, but to someone that's not financially comfortable, it makes sense to spend 100.00 per year, versus paying 500.00 all at once. They could just factor that leasing fee into their cost of doing business. Sometimes that makes all the difference in the world, 500 vs 100.
I lease bottles because I can get any bottle I want, any gas I want, and I only pay $50/year per bottle. If I need a 40 cf mobile bottle, I get one. If I need a 125 cf home bottle, I get one. If I need a 330 cf shop bottle, I get one. $50/year.
I pay $75 per cylinder per year rental fee, if you can find a place that will fill customer owned cylinders that is absolutely the way to go. Unfortunately where I live no one will fill customer owned cylinders over 80CF. Having done the numbers based on how much gas I use per year, and the much higher cost per CF of gas to fill smaller cylinders its cheaper for me to rent the big ones. However for your typical DIY person its probably cheaper to buy the smaller cylinders. I figure the break even point with my LWS is around 4 refills a year with the 80CF cylinders vs renting the 330CF cylinders.
The trouble with owning cyclinders is that they have to be re-certified every ten years (pressure of UT tested) if you are able to exchange them for unmarked cyclinder with newr dates codes then your OK otherwise you will have to find an outfit that will re-certify after testing.
The Airgas locations in the Charlotte NC market will gladly sell you a bottle. And when you buy your first bottle, you get half off the gas. 125 cu ft $288 full then $48 refill 80 cu ft $244 bill then $34 refill These prices even vary, I went to a Charlotte suburb and it was even a few dollars less than that, but I didn’t write it down.
2400 to 2600 psi is normal, my welding shop and many others deliver this at 1300 psi, means 1 full tank is used to fill 1 empty tank resulting in 2 underfilled tanks
I leased one cylinder when I was new and didn't know better. Then I systematically studied how the cylinder purchase, leasing and inspection system works. I learned what to buy that my (excellent) local Airgas would swap out including the names of the other companies they bought out. Local welding suppliers should have a list they can show you with acceptable brands and have pics of what makes a cylinder unacceptable for exchange such as arc marks and corrosion damage. Most old ones rust at the bottom. I never run out of oxygen, nitrogen (I pressure test my own vehicle AC systems, vacuum is inferior for leak detection), argon or MIG mix and my cylinders will never be worth less than the little I paid for them. Ask your local welding supplier to show you what to look for when inspecting cylinders. They want to be safe and so (presumably) do you.
What about the life span of the bottles? What's the date ( + ☆ ) on the bottles? Overfill and Test Date? Also, is it true you have to consider Company Name Stamp on collar. Some places won't refill them if they have these?
That's sound high priced why not just go with B tanks for acetylene and size 40 for oxy and argon/co2. I recently filled a B tank with acetylene for $25 the size 40 oxy tank refill was $20 and argon/co2 size 40 was $35. The size 40 tanks can be found online for around $50. If you find a nitrogen tank size 40 air gas might trade you for oxygen or argon there the same tanks. and I think the B tank for acetylene For about $75. For me I find that the smaller tanks much easier to handle.
on another note if you buy a used bottle that size its prob. stolen, we take the bottle from you if it belongs to us. we haven't sold those ever, 70 + years. they are marked with names, ones grinded off, don't get filled or swapped. and we don't take other companies bottles like air gas, or any of the other big names. they don't take ours, company specific on commercial sized bottles. ( unless it a small local company that still does it the old way ) tractor supply doesn't even count as a big dawg.
"on another note if you buy a used bottle that size its prob. stolen," It MAY be BUT there are certainly legal exceptions, like the five military surplus nitrogen cylinders I bought. They were Federal (Navy) property legally surplused when a base closed. I had them hydro tested and filled with Argon and 75/25 with no problems other than it taking forever. Next time I drive to the facility myself. The Department of Transportation has a nice app for finding inspection facilities. play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gov.dot.phmsa.RIN&hl=en When one cylinder went missing in their system Airgas gave me a replacement with the Airgas neck ring as replacement for my "customer owned" cylinder. I saved the receipt since cylinders do not come with titles.
+STEVE ROB Just collecting goodies for my little hobby shop I plan on building in my backyard. I really wanna sell two of those wire feeders and maybe get a tig machine and eventually maybe a plasma cutter.
chase5726 Well I have both a tig and plasma cutter and both are extremely beneficial to my hobbies and you will see me using the plasma cutter soon, Cheers
Alvino Melgoza yea, you hit the nail on the head. I found out 34 years ago that buy bottles was a losing game . For me . You buy a bottle @ one location and go to another supplier or to another city and you can't get it filled. I lease all my bottles but what kills me is that they bill you a $5 environmental fee separate from the monthly bill . He paid $1000 for two tanks and is satisfied as you say I like the versatility of exchanging bottle sizes and different gases
Its better to lease because first that kind of money upfront is alot and there's alot of gas supplies that won't fill other bottles besides there's so what's the point
You forgot to mention testing certification every ten years for your own bottles that can cost almost as much as buying a bottle I'm going through the decision of leasing or buying the only difference is the rental is more than half the cost of airgas
Hydro doesn't cost much or you are being badly ripped off. Your taxes paid for this handy Department of Transportation app so you can find inspection stations easily, and since most of those are also large welding suppliers it's extra useful. play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gov.dot.phmsa.RIN&hl=en
I'm just learning to weld simple jobs on my inherited farm...I thought 99 percent Nitrogen gas was best. Also, I found the best price in Airgas. Your thoughts please...
First of all the amount you paid for those 2 cylinders... you got ripped off buddy and second of all why would you ever trade in a cylinder if you own it? Those are 10 year bottles and you’d only pay 25 bucks a cylinder to be tested and certified for another 10 service. I’m a Hydrostatic tester and I just shake my head at videos like this.
Works just like exchanging propane at Walmart. Walmart doesn't fill bottles on site, they take your empty bottle and give you a full one, same thing here never have to pay for bottle testing because you get a different cylinder each time. You don't own that particular bottle. you own a bottle. Like owning stock of a company. you don't own a particular stock, you own a stock. So shake your head all you want to.
chase5726 Your wrong again you do own the bottle if you pay out right for it, it just has to remain service with the DOT and depending on the gas or cylinder type and age is how long it’s certified for, I would just test it under the company name with your initials and the days date tested. You know nothing how the system works let alone the pricing ( see previous comment ) you got ripped off mainly due to ignorance and lack of education on the subject. Have a nice day.
I can tell you air gas wants about 400 a year to lease 3 bottles like I currently have now. 400 a year times 30 years is 12000 dollars in lease fees. That's assuming they never upped the price which I can guarantee they will. Again everyone in my area swaps bottles out regardless of owned or leased. No one does on site filling of welding gas bottles in my area. They have to be transported back to the filling location. I mean if someone wants to drive 150 miles one way to the main location just to keep a particular bottle I guess you could but that would be kinda stupid to drive 300 miles round-trip every time you want to get your bottle refilled when you can drive 50 miles round-trip to a hub store and swap it out for a full one. I guess if you work in bottle testing you live beside the filling place, but remember not everyone does.
@@LifeWithChase Term is telling the truth, would you prefer folks lie to you'll feel better? You really PAID for your two cylinders and you own them. forget what lies airgas sold you, do biz with a different lws and do some research. its not unusual to get those size used cylinders sometimes still 80% full for $100 however ymmv.
What's the lifetime on the bottles? Will the welding companies even fill a bottle that's gone past 10 years? I know I couldn't get an lpg gas bottle for the bbq filled once it had gone past the maker's 10 year stamp. I want to buy on myself but I can see some places being upset you aren't leasing their own.
they just exchange them at the local welding supply just like the little lpg bottles that walmart keep in the little cages. so everytime you exchange you get a different bottle
Righto, so you never keep the same one. Didn't cross my mind they did the same thing. That's great. I don't do much welding and spent more on annual rental fees than gas, used to have a large G size Co2 but took it back when it eventually ran out. Was thinking of buying a smaller mig that uses gasless wire but now this option makes more sense. Cheers
@@oo0Spyder0oo the bottles have to be pressure tested at regular intervals, usually 5 years on older bottles (one in our shop has a mfr date of 1959 so they do last a while) or if they were stamped with a star next to the test date then they are good for 10 years. your gas supplier won't refill an out of date bottle but they will pressure test and recertify it for you for a fee.
yeah you got ripped off. that mom and pop store will be bought out and you will have to deal with the main gas suppliers. most major gas companies do not sell commercial sized bottles. the credit check, deposits, and leases are common practice all over the country. the smaller 80 cubic feet and smaller are considered customer owned. you can buy them from any company and exchange anywhere. tractor supply is the odd ball with those goofy high charges for their own deal they have going. if you have a business, you can afford 100.00 per year. most places are 50.00 to 75.00 a year. the big boys have never sold commercial sized tanks, we buy up the small old mom and pop companies. those types we all over in the 70's and 80's.there is a reason they are not in business anymore, and get bought out. milk it out while you can... a 250 cf bottle of oxygen should be like 20.00 for the gas. the mix around 75.00 or so. chances are they don't have a 10 million dollar fill plant and have someone else fill their bottles. ive been in the biz for over 20 years. good luck with that for as long as it last.
well first off the gas supplier I bought these from has been in business for 75 years so there's a good chance they will be in business alot longer. You don't stay in business 75 years if your an idiot. Now I have 3 bottles, Lets take that 75.00 a year lease number you got there multiply it times 3 for 3 bottles equals 225 per year. Now lets multiply that by 30 years because that is considered a tradesmans lifetime, that equals $6,750 In bottle lease now lets say i wan't to keep the bottles another 10 years for my retirement years thats another $2250 this is assuming there is no price increase in 40 years is $9000 Now I have invested about $1800 In 3 bottles that I can keep 40 plus years or until I die. If you count for lease going up yearly to keep up with inflation over 40 years I could very well have saved 15-20K so how did I get ripped off? Unless the company went bankrupt within the first 8 years which would be the break even year.
your good for now, chances are the dudes 70 years old, and about to sell out.... there are only a handful of big guys left in the south. we buy up about 3 companies per year. you might be fine for years though. ive seen 20 go out over 20 + years around the south. it usually ends bad for the guy who bought commercial sized cylinders.
ya never know, they have between 16-20 locations is what i was told. Airgas used to do the lifetime lease also, well whomever the company was before airgas bought them but airgas accepted that and still swaps the cylinders out. my dad has a set of them from 30-40 years ago of course they are new bottles because you get a new bottle every time you swap, and i know a couple old farmers who have also but after airgas took over they started there yearly lease program and price gouge for cylinder lease and gas charge. big companys like lumber mills hospitals etc don't care as much about cost like that. so thats what keeps them in business i guess. But everything seems to be going this way with yearly contracts. heck one day we'll be paying a yearly sales tax on a car thats paid for. just like property tax. or maybe we'll have to lease a car only without ever owning. It just seems everyone is doing this, and yeah it seems like a good business plan as long as people comply but where does it end?
I prob. should have not worded my response so hard. you are correct on the honoring of past companies deals they had before being bought out by a bigger company. we also have a few of those deals we have honored as well. the tank deal is ever changing and many rules and regulations now with the bigger companies. your right it doesn't end....lol if you can milk that deal out for 5-6 years, you will get your money out.
Depends on where you live. The cylinder rental/lease thing is mainly an east-of-the-rockies thing. Out west where I live, customer-owned cylinders are the rule rather than the exception, except for companies that use large amounts of compressed gas, in which case it is more cost-effective to lease.
All good until the gubermint' does something stupid and "obsolete's" them by fiat. (as they have done for welding gas/lp gas bottles in the past) Just wait for some bad boys to do something spectacularly nasty with them. It'll be easier to register a machine gun in Manhattan then to get your hands on and fill these puppies!
When those tanks no longer hold a cert youre just fucked and own a bottle that can't be filled. And the places around here won't fill any customer bottle over 150cf and won't sell anything above 80cf. I own 2 80s and have 2 leased 390cf.
I Get a different bottle every time I exchange it. They carry it back to the plant where they inspect and refill it, just like the propane bottles at Walmart.
![Mig welding with Argon and Co2 [ Etch Testing]](/img/n.gif)
If I paid that much for those cylinders I would keep em in the house too
Lol
LMAO i just said that then scrolled down and saw your comment and busted out laughing again. lmao
Had two bottles stolen in California.. bastards. Were aluminum LPG tanks.. FG wasn’t happy about it. lol
Much love from your UK cousin here for the help. Things sort of work the same, but your insight is appreciated.
I think I'm going to rent for one year, until I have a bit more job stability, then buy outright. I'd be in need of at least one bottle for around 30/40 years, but had no idea the bottles were so cheap.
The problem comes when you need them refilled. They will need hydrostatic testing periodically. If the test date has expired they need to be sent out for testing, at your expense and may take weeks before you get them back. Leasing includes the testing and repairs to the valves. Leasing is usually a better deal.
That's not how it works at Airgas. They will just charge you a recert fee and the price of the refill. You don't ever get the original cylinder back.
Bugger that, it's so easy to buy shielding gas bottles in Australia, but they're not cheap, I got the smallest bottle, Argon.
I'm teaching myself tig welding so I gotta buy 2 more gas bottles 1 for welding stainless steel & 1 for aluminium.
I'm getting a oxygen & LP gas set up for cutting & soldering & bronzing it's hotter & cheaper than using Acetylene.
I learned that in the automotive industry
Making both radiators for cars, trucks & powerstations.
I left the industry, not long after plastics came into production.
The last car I owned that didn't have plastic tanks was a 6 cylinder LJ Torana S.
To elaborate on my reply to Nate: As I mentioned, the cylinder rental/lease thing is mainly an east-of-the-rockies thing. Out west where I live, customer-owned cylinders are the rule rather than the exception, except for companies that use large amounts of compressed gas, in which case it is more cost-effective to lease.
I paid $239 for a K cylinder of oxygen, and $339 for a T cylinder of C15 (85%Ar/15%CO2). I may trade up to a T cylinder of oxygen next time, but I was warned by the supplier that they are seldom stocked so I may have to wait for a fill on that size cylinder.
I also paid $219 for an A4 cylinder (approx. 145cu-ft) of acetylene. I may trade up to an A5 or WTL cylinder next time so I can run larger welding tips (A5=350cu-ft, WTL=390cu-ft).
Keep in mind I don't buy from little outfits. I buy from Praxair, which is the largest gas manufacturer and supplier in North and South America. Supposedly they have been approved to merge with the German Linde group, so we will have to see if that changes the equation. I doubt it, since there are literally millions of customer-owned cylinders on this side of the country. I was told that if anything changed it would likely be with acetylene cylinders, where they would continue to fill/exchange currently customer-owned cylinders but would no longer sell new ones - new acetylene accounts would be lease only. So if you live out here and want an acetylene cylinder larger than a B tank, you might want to get it now!
Finally, there are no 250cu-ft, 290 cu-ft, or 390cu-ft standard high-pressure cylinders. A standard K cylinder like Chase's oxygen cylinder holds 220cu-ft at 2200psi. A T cylinder, which is what Chase has for shielding gas, holds 330cu-ft at 2640psi. You can also get a 3K cylinder that holds around 300cu-ft at 3000psi, a 4k cylinder that holds about 420cu-ft at 4000psi, and a 6K cylinder that holds about 584cu-ft at 6000psi. The latter two sizes are only for inert gases and have a different valve vs the K, T, and 3K cylinders. Also, you REALLY don't want to drop the ultra-high pressure cylinders on your foot! A standard K cylinder weighs 133lbs empty. The 3K weighs 189lbs! The 4K and 6K are both made of chromoly, so the 4K is actually lighter than the 3K at 145lbs, while the 6K comes in at a foot-crushing 303lbs! They weight and different regulators are the reasons I won't go bigger than a T cylinder, which weighs 143lbs.
Only time you lease is if you refill more than 4 times a year.
Also never use air gas, they are always over priced. Unless it’s your only option I literally refuse to use them. They are 2x the price of my LWS.
In Australia I got a D size of pure Argon for $269 . And a E size pure argon for $475 . Refills for e size is $159 . Refills for D size $99
Is it both male and female tank cylinder valves available where the argon gas regulator is threaded to on an argon tank cylinder? What is the size and thread pitch of the gas outlet fitting on the gas regulator? Thank you for you patience.
I'm in Southeast Ohio. You buy their tank and exchange when empty. They allow you to buy a small tank and pay for fill. When it's time to exchange you can get a large tank and no extra cost. Just have to pay for the extra gas. Pretty reasonable, actually.
Around here you have to lease the tanks, 2 welding tanks is 300 dollars for something like 3 years.
I agree, for the individual who might take a couple years to use a bottle the bottle Definitely buy them. If you have a high demand for bottled gasses like a auto repair shop or welding business then leasing makes sense.
Buy the bottles from a welding supply shop and make sure you get a bottle with at least five years if possible 10 years on the hydro certification.
Damn....those are some big tanks...I know this video is a few years old but something else to keep in mind is the people who refill your tank want to see a sticker or stamp that the bottle has been tested. Most are good for 10 years then have to be re-tested at your expense if you own it. Some places will not fill personal tanks also. Just an FYI.
I also own my tanks, I won't lease anymore. I don't weld enough to warrant it.
We use airgas here in Illinois too
I guess I'll never know how good my welder welds with gas. at these prices i will stay with ugly flux core.good argument for DIY welders to stay with flux core welding. not as clean or fancy welds but so much cheaper and does the job.
CO2 is a cheaper alternative.
You can get smaller cubic foot bottles for much cheaper
If you know how to weld and clean up the slag and bead nicely it's a good welding process for outside use.
Iam thankful for my local welding company, only about 15 minutes away. The other great thing is that when you get a bottle of anything you buy it and not lease it, it's not really yours tho. You have to take it back too them when you need it refilled. Only have to pay for refill, you get a different bottle so no worry about testing.
Every 5 years you are required to pressure test bottles. While I do agree that on paper it costs a lot to lease the bottles but you pay the 4 years then just exchange the bottle.. it may be about the same. It’s also easier to transport more than a bottle if you have to drive a long distance. You can order tanks for your destination with a exchange making you legal to transport.. (dot says 2 bottles max non commercially / no cdl) so there are many factors to weigh out in this kind of decision.
Obviously if you only weld in one place it may make more sense to buy.
Thanks for sharing. Most don’t even know.. lol
My lease on 100% argon for my big machine is $70 a year now for the big bottle. With lease i don't have to worry about expired tank certification. In texas
You can buy bottles on Amazon, in some cases full with shipping included in the price. I'm lucky, we have Norco, Praxair and Airgas all within a few miles where I live. Yes, Airgas pricing is out of my budget...
Glad I fucking quit working at amazon. People will buy heavy the heaviest shit.
I agree in the long run it makes sense, but to someone that's not financially comfortable, it makes sense to spend 100.00 per year, versus paying 500.00 all at once.
They could just factor that leasing fee into their cost of doing business. Sometimes that makes all the difference in the world, 500 vs 100.
I lease bottles because I can get any bottle I want, any gas I want, and I only pay $50/year per bottle. If I need a 40 cf mobile bottle, I get one. If I need a 125 cf home bottle, I get one. If I need a 330 cf shop bottle, I get one. $50/year.
I got my oxygen bottle from Airgas maybe about 3 years ago I think the price was 170 for one bottle
My wife has COPD. Medicare gives her all the O2 she needs. I just barrow a little.
Hot dam son you got ripped off.
This video got my rolling!
I pay $75 per cylinder per year rental fee, if you can find a place that will fill customer owned cylinders that is absolutely the way to go. Unfortunately where I live no one will fill customer owned cylinders over 80CF. Having done the numbers based on how much gas I use per year, and the much higher cost per CF of gas to fill smaller cylinders its cheaper for me to rent the big ones. However for your typical DIY person its probably cheaper to buy the smaller cylinders. I figure the break even point with my LWS is around 4 refills a year with the 80CF cylinders vs renting the 330CF cylinders.
Great video thanks.
The trouble with owning cyclinders is that they have to be re-certified every ten years (pressure of UT tested) if you are able to exchange them for unmarked cyclinder with newr dates codes then your OK otherwise you will have to find an outfit that will re-certify after testing.
yes its dirt cheap or even free, swap your tank when you get a newer in date tank when you need refill.
The Airgas locations in the Charlotte NC market will gladly sell you a bottle. And when you buy your first bottle, you get half off the gas.
125 cu ft $288 full then $48 refill
80 cu ft $244 bill then $34 refill
These prices even vary, I went to a Charlotte suburb and it was even a few dollars less than that, but I didn’t write it down.
They won't sell the large bottles. Unless something changed... This is a 390 cu ft welding gas bottle and 280 cu ft oxy bottle...
2400 to 2600 psi is normal, my welding shop and many others deliver this at 1300 psi, means 1 full tank is used to fill 1 empty tank resulting in 2 underfilled tanks
Smart move on the propane. I don't know why anyone would still be using acetylene anymore.
I leased one cylinder when I was new and didn't know better. Then I systematically studied how the cylinder purchase, leasing and inspection system works. I learned what to buy that my (excellent) local Airgas would swap out including the names of the other companies they bought out. Local welding suppliers should have a list they can show you with acceptable brands and have pics of what makes a cylinder unacceptable for exchange such as arc marks and corrosion damage. Most old ones rust at the bottom.
I never run out of oxygen, nitrogen (I pressure test my own vehicle AC systems, vacuum is inferior for leak detection), argon or MIG mix and my cylinders will never be worth less than the little I paid for them.
Ask your local welding supplier to show you what to look for when inspecting cylinders. They want to be safe and so (presumably) do you.
Airgas around me will sell me a bottle but there 5 types the cost of praxair and other welding supply companies
you can buy them on e-bay for cheaper than that. I own mine for hobby use,
LMAO! im dying
Were you on breaking bad?
yeah, I'm sure you can buy a full 300 cu ft cylinder online... riiiight
@@phiksit look on amazon i literally just did that
What about the life span of the bottles? What's the date ( + ☆ ) on the bottles? Overfill and Test Date? Also, is it true you have to consider Company Name Stamp on collar. Some places won't refill them if they have these?
+ ☆, means can fill +10% above rated psi and re-test every 10 years.
That's sound high priced why not just go with B tanks for acetylene and size 40 for oxy and argon/co2. I recently filled a B tank with acetylene for $25 the size 40 oxy tank refill was $20 and argon/co2 size 40 was $35. The size 40 tanks can be found online for around $50. If you find a nitrogen tank size 40 air gas might trade you for oxygen or argon there the same tanks. and I think the B tank for acetylene For about $75. For me I find that the smaller tanks much easier to handle.
I bought a brand new 80 cubic ft many years ago but now it needs to be tested so I am on the fence on buying or renting
so when you go to fill the unit or swap it out and they say it is outdated your going to buy all new ones?
Nope they swap it out
i thought the biggest argon cylinder capacity in that style bottle was 330 which is the "T" tank
I think they just increase the pressure to get the extra cu ft. If I remember correctly I think the pressure on that cylinder is 2700 ish range
i didnt know you could lease them. They sell them all over the place in maryland?
on another note if you buy a used bottle that size its prob. stolen, we take the bottle from you if it belongs to us. we haven't sold those ever, 70 + years. they are marked with names, ones grinded off, don't get filled or swapped. and we don't take other companies bottles like air gas, or any of the other big names. they don't take ours, company specific on commercial sized bottles. ( unless it a small local company that still does it the old way ) tractor supply doesn't even count as a big dawg.
"on another note if you buy a used bottle that size its prob. stolen," It MAY be BUT there are certainly legal exceptions, like the five military surplus nitrogen cylinders I bought. They were Federal (Navy) property legally surplused when a base closed. I had them hydro tested and filled with Argon and 75/25 with no problems other than it taking forever. Next time I drive to the facility myself.
The Department of Transportation has a nice app for finding inspection facilities. play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gov.dot.phmsa.RIN&hl=en
When one cylinder went missing in their system Airgas gave me a replacement with the Airgas neck ring as replacement for my "customer owned" cylinder. I saved the receipt since cylinders do not come with titles.
Hard to get someone to fill if the bottle is more than 5 years old.
really a credit rating for 113 bucks a year?
Owning isnt an option when nobody in your area fills owned bottles. This is where a plasma cutter can be cheaper of you dont need to heat anything.
Chase5726, Do You have a link for "Well-co" or Wel-Co??
in 2017 i bought bottles from airgas in rochester, ny. they gave me the option, of leasing or buying.
Dont give it in mass
Good comparison on cost. Ok now what do you have planed with the welding, 8 welders and torches , looks like your on a mission. HaHa
+STEVE ROB Just collecting goodies for my little hobby shop I plan on building in my backyard. I really wanna sell two of those wire feeders and maybe get a tig machine and eventually maybe a plasma cutter.
chase5726 Well I have both a tig and plasma cutter and both are extremely beneficial to my hobbies and you will see me using the plasma cutter soon, Cheers
Paul
STEVE ROB
You would have to have them inspected and pressure tested. Some every 5 years and some of them every 10 years.
You have to get them inspected every 5 years unless it has a star, then it has to be inspected every 10 years
As long as your happy I guess.
Alvino Melgoza yea, you hit the nail on the head. I found out 34 years ago that buy bottles was a losing game . For me . You buy a bottle @ one location and go to another supplier or to another city and you can't get it filled. I lease all my bottles but what kills me is that they bill you a $5 environmental fee separate from the monthly bill . He paid $1000 for two tanks and is satisfied as you say I like the versatility of exchanging bottle sizes and different gases
Its better to lease because first that kind of money upfront is alot and there's alot of gas supplies that won't fill other bottles besides there's so what's the point
You forgot to mention testing certification every ten years for your own bottles that can cost almost as much as buying a bottle I'm going through the decision of leasing or buying the only difference is the rental is more than half the cost of airgas
Hydro doesn't cost much or you are being badly ripped off. Your taxes paid for this handy Department of Transportation app so you can find inspection stations easily, and since most of those are also large welding suppliers it's extra useful. play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=gov.dot.phmsa.RIN&hl=en
It's not much at all. I bought some used tanks, had them tested and valves changed and it was way less than I thought
I'm just learning to weld simple jobs on my inherited farm...I thought 99 percent Nitrogen gas was best. Also, I found the best price in Airgas. Your thoughts please...
First of all the amount you paid for those 2 cylinders... you got ripped off buddy and second of all why would you ever trade in a cylinder if you own it? Those are 10 year bottles and you’d only pay 25 bucks a cylinder to be tested and certified for another 10 service. I’m a Hydrostatic tester and I just shake my head at videos like this.
Works just like exchanging propane at Walmart. Walmart doesn't fill bottles on site, they take your empty bottle and give you a full one, same thing here never have to pay for bottle testing because you get a different cylinder each time. You don't own that particular bottle. you own a bottle. Like owning stock of a company. you don't own a particular stock, you own a stock. So shake your head all you want to.
chase5726 Your wrong again you do own the bottle if you pay out right for it, it just has to remain service with the DOT and depending on the gas or cylinder type and age is how long it’s certified for, I would just test it under the company name with your initials and the days date tested. You know nothing how the system works let alone the pricing ( see previous comment ) you got ripped off mainly due to ignorance and lack of education on the subject. Have a nice day.
I can tell you air gas wants about 400 a year to lease 3 bottles like I currently have now. 400 a year times 30 years is 12000 dollars in lease fees. That's assuming they never upped the price which I can guarantee they will. Again everyone in my area swaps bottles out regardless of owned or leased. No one does on site filling of welding gas bottles in my area. They have to be transported back to the filling location. I mean if someone wants to drive 150 miles one way to the main location just to keep a particular bottle I guess you could but that would be kinda stupid to drive 300 miles round-trip every time you want to get your bottle refilled when you can drive 50 miles round-trip to a hub store and swap it out for a full one. I guess if you work in bottle testing you live beside the filling place, but remember not everyone does.
i am about to buy a filled used bottle. what should i look for?
@@LifeWithChase Term is telling the truth, would you prefer folks lie to you'll feel better? You really PAID for your two cylinders and you own them. forget what lies airgas sold you, do biz with a different lws and do some research. its not unusual to get those size used cylinders sometimes still 80% full for $100 however ymmv.
Can does tanks hold Co2
I'm in Las Vegas Nevada you can buy bottles all day long for $150.00 off Craigslist
I'paid $ 80 set ,
They're all customer-owned bottles
L
My air gas sells bottles, but i bought the cheapest from welding supply on line and airgas will exchange the bottle.
What's the lifetime on the bottles? Will the welding companies even fill a bottle that's gone past 10 years? I know I couldn't get an lpg gas bottle for the bbq filled once it had gone past the maker's 10 year stamp. I want to buy on myself but I can see some places being upset you aren't leasing their own.
they just exchange them at the local welding supply just like the little lpg bottles that walmart keep in the little cages. so everytime you exchange you get a different bottle
Righto, so you never keep the same one. Didn't cross my mind they did the same thing. That's great. I don't do much welding and spent more on annual rental fees than gas, used to have a large G size Co2 but took it back when it eventually ran out. Was thinking of buying a smaller mig that uses gasless wire but now this option makes more sense. Cheers
@@oo0Spyder0oo the bottles have to be pressure tested at regular intervals, usually 5 years on older bottles (one in our shop has a mfr date of 1959 so they do last a while) or if they were stamped with a star next to the test date then they are good for 10 years. your gas supplier won't refill an out of date bottle but they will pressure test and recertify it for you for a fee.
@@grumpy_ken Yeah going the exchange route now anyway, no point in buying one, I just give it back when I'm done and get my bond back. All good.
yeah you got ripped off. that mom and pop store will be bought out and you will have to deal with the main gas suppliers. most major gas companies do not sell commercial sized bottles. the credit check, deposits, and leases are common practice all over the country. the smaller 80 cubic feet and smaller are considered customer owned. you can buy them from any company and exchange anywhere. tractor supply is the odd ball with those goofy high charges for their own deal they have going. if you have a business, you can afford 100.00 per year. most places are 50.00 to 75.00 a year. the big boys have never sold commercial sized tanks, we buy up the small old mom and pop companies. those types we all over in the 70's and 80's.there is a reason they are not in business anymore, and get bought out. milk it out while you can... a 250 cf bottle of oxygen should be like 20.00 for the gas. the mix around 75.00 or so. chances are they don't have a 10 million dollar fill plant and have someone else fill their bottles. ive been in the biz for over 20 years. good luck with that for as long as it last.
well first off the gas supplier I bought these from has been in business for 75 years so there's a good chance they will be in business alot longer. You don't stay in business 75 years if your an idiot. Now I have 3 bottles, Lets take that 75.00 a year lease number you got there multiply it times 3 for 3 bottles equals 225 per year. Now lets multiply that by 30 years because that is considered a tradesmans lifetime, that equals $6,750 In bottle lease now lets say i wan't to keep the bottles another 10 years for my retirement years thats another $2250 this is assuming there is no price increase in 40 years is $9000 Now I have invested about $1800 In 3 bottles that I can keep 40 plus years or until I die. If you count for lease going up yearly to keep up with inflation over 40 years I could very well have saved 15-20K so how did I get ripped off? Unless the company went bankrupt within the first 8 years which would be the break even year.
your good for now, chances are the dudes 70 years old, and about to sell out.... there are only a handful of big guys left in the south. we buy up about 3 companies per year. you might be fine for years though. ive seen 20 go out over 20 + years around the south. it usually ends bad for the guy who bought commercial sized cylinders.
ya never know, they have between 16-20 locations is what i was told. Airgas used to do the lifetime lease also, well whomever the company was before airgas bought them but airgas accepted that and still swaps the cylinders out. my dad has a set of them from 30-40 years ago of course they are new bottles because you get a new bottle every time you swap, and i know a couple old farmers who have also but after airgas took over they started there yearly lease program and price gouge for cylinder lease and gas charge. big companys like lumber mills hospitals etc don't care as much about cost like that. so thats what keeps them in business i guess. But everything seems to be going this way with yearly contracts. heck one day we'll be paying a yearly sales tax on a car thats paid for. just like property tax. or maybe we'll have to lease a car only without ever owning. It just seems everyone is doing this, and yeah it seems like a good business plan as long as people comply but where does it end?
I prob. should have not worded my response so hard. you are correct on the honoring of past companies deals they had before being bought out by a bigger company. we also have a few of those deals we have honored as well. the tank deal is ever changing and many rules and regulations now with the bigger companies. your right it doesn't end....lol
if you can milk that deal out for 5-6 years, you will get your money out.
Depends on where you live. The cylinder rental/lease thing is mainly an east-of-the-rockies thing. Out west where I live, customer-owned cylinders are the rule rather than the exception, except for companies that use large amounts of compressed gas, in which case it is more cost-effective to lease.
4 years later. You still have the bottle ?
All good until the gubermint' does something stupid and "obsolete's" them by fiat. (as they have done for welding gas/lp gas bottles in the past) Just wait for some bad boys to do something spectacularly nasty with them. It'll be easier to register a machine gun in Manhattan then to get your hands on and fill these puppies!
interesting. thanks for sharing
To the much money brother
When those tanks no longer hold a cert youre just fucked and own a bottle that can't be filled. And the places around here won't fill any customer bottle over 150cf and won't sell anything above 80cf. I own 2 80s and have 2 leased 390cf.
I Get a different bottle every time I exchange it. They carry it back to the plant where they inspect and refill it, just like the propane bottles at Walmart.
Cylinders, not bottles.
BUT THE BOTTLES EXPIRE THEN NEEDED RETEST
To Hell with Airgas.
buy them on ebay....you got ripped off big time
You can't get bottles that big online.
lmao...
SHIT!!@! I THOUGHT THIS WAS FOR 2024😢😢😢😢 NOT GOOD
Expiration date on bottles ?
Meaning nobody will fill it if the bottle is past the expiration date !🫣😳