It’s crucial to understand what narcissism really means. The term narcissism is thrown around to the extent that people think they know what it means. Most however don’t. It’s essential to learn about the different types of narcissism and what they have in common in order to understand the signs. Especially the coverts are so subtle in their manipulation tactics that one hardly recognises them, if one is not familiar with the core concept of the disorder. Looking forward to today’s session.
@@barbarabagatin8962 also they cannot remember their lies (so ask a question more than once and you’ll notice different responses), and they’re definitely defensive and sensitive to perceived criticism so…
Given that only about 5 percent of the population has this disorder, there seem to be a lot of them around. This makes me think most of the people we hear about on this channel are somewhere on the narcissism spectrum but are not full blown narcissists.
@@Reneemfenn yes. As far as I know sometimes they can't remember everything but I don't want to justify: it is because of their lack of insight. This has been my experience. I think it is also laziness. And also being very cowards. Agree at the end: they can't remember to protect themselves but they get when you say them Ehy you are hurting me! And them: Why? This is really impossible to manage. Impulsive, overwhelmed about bs, afraid of everything, surrounded by untrustworthy people because they can't appreciate decent people but only those who are like them. And when it comes to hurt, they always remember and then that's the big lie. They also gashlight themselves because it must always others faults. Maybe some narcissists seems not to be so evil, but when they hurt and mostly bully they are close to be psychopaths because nobody can be an adult without accepting responsabilities. To not say of when they seek for revenge... Run. Asap.
Projection is a habit I try to challenge--- in myself and the other. I introspect often to remind myself how easily I may misunderstand or misinterpret what I may be expressing, or what the other is expressing. Our discussions online are devoid of visual clues, tone, volume, etc. Context is essential in truthseeking.
I have come to realize that there are only two options when dealing with difficult situations, events and people: You either choose to learn from it or become bitter from it. I choose to learn, grow and become a stronger person for it. Thank you, doctors. Nice seeing Dr Malkin on here. TEAM HEALTHY!!
This is very fascinating. I just learned a lot. My Covert mother abused me right up to the day she died and I never thought about my own anger. How I felt hurt, disrespected, belittled, undermine, minimized, invalidate, unwanted, unlovable, inhuman treatment, and I didn't like these feelings at all, but didn't know what to do with them. My Covert mother would even throw away foods I like to eat or my things and I had no way of leaving. Now, I just feel foolish. I hated the way I was being treated, but I couldn't express it to myself or anyone else. I just sat on them. Now, all these feelings our coming out. I'm finding healthy ways of letting them out, but its tough. I don't want to make anyone feel the way my NM made me feel. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Yup I had a soulmate relationship who would call me out, and then it would be shopping and sushi to make up, could not believe that mum (spelt with a B) still rented space
😢 I'm so sorry. You're a good person, and she was not. Sometimes it boils down to that simple. You deserved love, respect, support from her. You didn't know what you didn't know, so it's natural to feel foolish. She set you up to not see how she was toward you. And now the years of her abuse are becoming conscious to where you're able to voice them. Getting your voice back is like getting your life back. Very best wishes to you & your courageous healing.
Thank you for speaking to the anger that one has to feel to break free from this emotional abuse. After 24 yrs of marriage I knew I would not get a truthful answer & would be on the same road as many other times. The amount of narc supply these people get on social media is such fuel for their grandiosity. I finally realized there to NOT be a relationship with this person ever. I threw myself into trauma based therapy prior my discarding him. Grateful for my health @ 72 & fearless in finding out why I stayed so long. Thank you for this content. Most helpful.😊
WOW. The triple E effect. Exploitation, Entitlement, and Empathy impairment. To be honest I didn't know anything about the term narcissism. Once I located this and other channels, I begin to say oh wow, that is what I had been experiencing. Dr. Carter, as always thank you for bringing such an awesome guest to your channel. I had said that I would not read another book unless it was my own, but I have caught myself purchasing every guest that Dr. Carter has introduced to us.
I realize now it was the wrong thing to do, but before I became educated on this topic, I told my 60 year old boyfriend I thought he was a narcissist. . . when I explained why I thought so, he beamed with pride. He wears the title like a freaking badge. He's an overt narc, life of the party type. Talk about bizarro. Now I understand why.
Such a profound conversation! Toward the end of my time in a high-control religious group I asked the leader, “Would you ever consider that you are not special?” He replied, “No.”
"There's a huge difference between selfish and self-preservation." It's confusing when everything you do is interpreted in the worst way. Thank you both.
That's a big issue for me. Feeling selfish and they're happy to call me selfish but I cannot cope with the way they are. They refuse to accept their part of the equations what else can we do but go against our nature and try and self preserve
@@michelepascoe6068 it's a balancing act plus learning and trying to be compassionate to myself. All my life I've wanted to protect my elderly mom yet it's done me no favours she will always be who she is. Being a soft touch I feel so bad for her background though she would deny it's affected her at all and that there is the problem. They can say they had it so hard but if you show them empathy they feel vulnerable and the next thing you're the bad guy and they put all their expectations onto me. You cant win and before you know it you're selfish. When someone is willing to break your psyche in favour of them being right I think you have to try to be a bit selfish for self preservation but it sits badly with me. I try to ignore it. Strange really I should feel bad about it because she rarely protected me as a child from abuse from others yet I beat myself up if I don't protect her. Her feelings and also physically. I was well trained lol! This channel is a God send. All the best to you
@@bereal6590 I relate to what you say. I tried so hard to please my mother, hoping for her acceptance till she died. She left two rejection messages for me to hear after her death. In my traumatised state, I was tolerating contempt and humiliation, so confused and afraid. I had nightmares and day frights for 6 months afterwards and almost all my loved ones were turned against me after decades of smear campaigning. She alienated 3 husbands from their children, yet acted the victim, helpless and harmless. And we all made excuses for her, never imagining she was doing her damage on purpose. We tried to comfort her and to be supportive. Anyway, Dr Carter has explained it all and taught me what to do (video Calm Confidence). The books Mothers who Can't Love by Susan Forward and Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft helped me a lot. I had to detach emotionally from the people I loved who bullied me on her behalf and be realistic about who they all are. Lysa Terkeurst's book Good Boundaries and Goodbyes is very good. The Crappy Childhood Fairy has a Ten Emergency Measures for when you're emotionally disregulated, to download, and a "daily practice" which helps unburden one's heart. God has been my strength and shield and the Bible my shining light in the darkness, but I misapplied some verses on forgiveness, grace, love and dying to self. Yeshua/Jesus knew when to walk away, remain silent before accusers who were determined to think ill of Him, and let people go. He did not JADE (Justify Argue Defend and Explain endlessly). Read a list of Safe vs Unsafe behaviours for clarity. Peace and wisdom to you. We deserved to be loved but our mothers were poisonous. Forgive, let go of false hopes, accept the life you have and move on into calm waters with people who reciprocate love and kindness.
What really helped me was: to think of them as zombies and handle them as such. Like in "Walking Dead," when MaShone(?) first showed up in her dark hood, with two zombies, on leashes, with jaws and arms cut off, using them for cover amongst the rest of the zombies...they were her LOVED ONES, her family, who got "bit." She STILL loved them, but KNEW the ones she LOVED were "no longer there," and that it would take a MIRACLE FROM GOD HIMSELF TO HEAL THEM. Rather than kill them (like the rest of the zombies), she neutralized their ability to bite or grab her, but kept them on leashes, so she could survive... That's how I look at some in my family and some others too...in order to survive. It is SAD really. I no longer try to reason with "zombies," I love them from afar, where I am safe, and IF I have to get close, I MAKE SURE I do not let my guard down. This has really helped me in this tragic situation. I choose to forgive, especially because it's not really exactly their fault that they got "bit,' and mostly do not even know they're "zombies." BUT, forgiveness is NOT THE SAME as reconciliation. THAT will NOT be going to happen UNLESS and UNTIL they (we 😭) get A MIRACLE FROM GOD HIM SELF AND ARE HEALED. 😔 I Hope this makes sense to someone out there, and I HOPE THIS HELPS. 🫂✝️🫂
It’s so awesome and amazing to see Malkin and Carter sitting down to chat and compare notes! Rethinking Narcissism has helped me to see narcissism as a somewhat vital component of our individual and collective identities when appropriately balanced by humility, compassion, respect, civility, dignity… all the good stuff Dr. C encourages 😁 Dr. C’s channel has also been absolutely integral to my ability to understand how malignant narcissists operate, and how to avoid or at least mitigate the damaging effects of their toxic psychopathologies.
Thank you for this meaningful conversation as I grapple with my elderly narcissistic brother. I’m searching for compassion for him even as I know there is no hope in getting through to him. 😢
My narcissistic brother is incarcerated. You're not alone You can't get through to them, but being compassionate anyway is who YOU are, and you do that for YOU. It's like being the cat lady who takes care of a bunch of ferals - they won't cuddle you but you love them from afar. You toss them free meals and hope they make an impact on the rat problem lol
Most narcissist, that I know of, have had traumatic childhoods, & seem to have developed this trait as a survival strategy. I have empathy for them, but knowing this doesn't necessarily mean they are easier to deal with.
This has been so helpful for me, I have been in 2 relationships with narcs. This has validated that setting my boundaries was the right thing to do to save myself from the emotional abuse I was experiencing. My heart breaks for these people because it’s now clear to me they do not know what love really is.
Thank you Dr. Carter for this live.Dr. Malkin is another great. I follow him, when I can I watch his video, he taught me a lot. Fab live. Looking forward.
Hey whats up, yea buddy, im in Texas, this is rough, i hate living in my own skin, my Doctor said ,0 yea folks can get the traits, me finally going mad, watching this so called character problem, me 0 my, so you got fed up, knowing all of this is like step in to my world, my insight, of how to be a dog, how to be normal, knowing yes my commonsense, knowing, what it means to have a relationship with the Lord, knowing what the whole 9 yards, it made me sick, yea buddy, its in a lot of people, ride that train, right off track, i know what off track means, knowing what my wisdom of my heavenly Father, could be right on the top shelf, but if you like your sins, i like what being a drug addict dog, yeap ,knowing 0 ,people just dont do this, yea they do, what do they say, its a dog eat dog world, turn ugly all you need to, i hate living in my own skin, why cause i can play dog cramp, better than you, watch me, feed me to the dogs, i mistreated, a nut, go down in history, hec i hated turning dog, on any adult, i became out of sorts, ridiculous lies, playing like 0 you go to church, your whole life, about do every church in Texas, its where ,0 they thank im a decent,human, get me on the side, my drug is sex, my mercy, i know drugs, sex is your drug, you have been to millions of churches, the Bible says the devils job, take down the family, turn ugly, tell this drug addict your child like lies, im fed up, i cant take it back, the abuse a girl narcissist, done to another girl, it was like i let it happen, cause i do know what empathy, some type of wisdom, my skin will crawl to hell and back, cause i can play dog, like i step on a retard, it will destroy a good person, of course im not normal, i do like what peace for anyone suffering in this system, my problem was ,i became against a nut, life is not supposed to be like this, it was like, i destroy a troubled person, but being dum, its to much , get a grip, i had fall out, talk ugly, got fed up, 0 that person dont know nothing, they been what, feed me people, look at me, im a good person, im sorry the non human race is around my go team healthy, im sorry im ugly, im sorry i know how to get off track, its easy, its easy to be normal also, how could you, yea im sorry my narcissist is in fear, shame, if i did what the narcissist did, in life, i would be just breathing hec, i dont know, just be ok people, dont be ugly, if you feel anything, stay on track with the normal folks, 0 i got hurt, fed up, you folks have more than one narcissist, 0 yea, than it's the kids, im a one person dog, i only hurt one narcissist, im sorry, my Doctor can make, a person be real,
Great discussion about the Shame level and projection of the that shame. So interesting about childhood history and trauma. Some great quotes! "Narcissists need help to develop a Dignity Feeling." - Dr, Craig Malkin. "Narcissism represents a manner of life that is absent of love." - Dr. Les Carter
Compete with people that are not competing with them. In order to win they expect you to follow social norms that they themselves don't adhere to. Getting what they want is a common theme(setting others up so they can gain personally). Anger can be a response in normal people that are dealing with the selfish narcissist after years of abuse. A lot of time people never had a narc in their life and they don't know how to respond when they run into someone that is extremely selfish.
It's people like Doctor Malkin who give hope with the word of God for healing. All these videos will have a narcissist kill themselves feeling like nothing. God and acknowledgment can change anyone. I have recovered and even realized more about myself. There are few videos to help heal them.
My covert ex-narc, aged 76, definitely got worse with age. As his looks failed, sexual ability, finances, etc., his moodiness and anger increased. His usual passive aggressive behavior increased. No mellowing here, as his sources of supply lessened.
They're at their WORST when they can't hardly reel in narcissistic supply...In my opinion this is primarily why most narcs get worse in old age😬.They can't handle having to face reality,they use supply to try to prop up that fantasy bubble...We all know how bad their response typically is when someone/something punches a big fat hole in that bubble😅.
I thought I had pretty good understanding of narcissism, (having been married to someone who was diagnosed with a NPD) but this exchange was amazing, and it gave me some new insights. Thank you
How did the person get to be diagnosed with NPD ? Doesn't seem to be a voluntary process that a narcissist would have summited themselves to have done?
@@terrycato2670 We went to marriage counseling for a year and a half. The counselor criticized both of us (M said he agreed with everything the therapist said about me-and I did too-by the time I filed for divorce I didn’t even like my own behavior) but claimed nothing the therapist said about him was accurate. We each had some one on one sessions with the counselor and he told me he believed M had a NPD, and I would never have the kind of relationship or marriage I wanted and deserved to have. He said the biggest barrier to us having a good relationship was M’s personality. We both took the MMPI and a couple of other personality tests. His MMPI came back with the notation “almost too perfect”. My ex didn’t see that as a red flag, but confirmation of how he felt about himself. Once I read about the signs and indicators of an NPD it was pretty clear. I think if you have 5 of the 9 prevalent characteristics you can be diagnosed. He had all 9. He and his first wife went to counseling together for quite a few months and those 2 therapists said the same thing. He was textbook, and the family dysfunctions all fit the bill too.
I come home from a great vacation to this giant rare steak and a side of Old Fashioned Donuts of a video with my two top favorite psychologists on the youtubes. What are you serious??!?!?! My karma must be excellent! Life is amazing without any narcs in it. I dumped my last one in 2007. With good fortune I will never have another. These communities are soooo healing! Thank you both from the bottom of my wounded heart for this deeply informative collab. Dr. Carter, I have been following your videos since 2020 and I wish I would have you as my dad instead of a narc. You're literally my favorite TH-cam doctor. Dr. Malkin, you are...exquisite. a treasure trove of psychological terms/concepts - I have to frequently press pause and plug words into the search engine, as with your solo videos. Words cannot express how much I love this (working on psych undergrad). You have an amazing psychological vocabulary. I have been mining many of your videos and writings lately and absorbing from you for the last couple of months. From things you said in this video I thought of my mother, who accomplished TRULY amazing things before she passed despite being abused all her life. From one Echo (and daughter of Echo) to another, THANK YOU for encapsulating what she was up against, which helps me understand how amazing she really was. You are the best 💖 I can't believe this video happened!! YAYYYYY! Thank you both SO much!!
I need to admit that even now, I think, the reason I do so much in the way of building things and repairing things myself goes waaaaay back to being CONSTANTLY told "You can't do that, you're not smart enough or capable of _______", and it continued into my adulthood. It was crushing to me mentally. I have proven to myself that YES!!! I most definitely AM capable. Now these activities/projects just provide pleasure and fulfilment and I love to help others whom I know I can but I have also LEARNED there is a fine line of enabling, on my part, that I must be aware of and question my motives. Example, "Will doing this for this person really help THEM or am I still just reacting from an old bruise of worthlessness". I hate that I still have these conflicts running around in my head but at the same time I am grateful for them. It's just that sometimes the answer is not apparent and I feel really bad when I make a mistake which harms someone else.
Thank you for sharing because now I know I'm not the only one who suffers from this...although, I'm sorry you have to live that way because it's hard to figure out who to help and why.
@@mday3821 I am grateful that there are others who understand, thank you, because this dilemma is not an ethical one. That would be easier. I am not wanting nor trying to play God here, I have simply learned from experience that sometimes my "helping" was not helping but enabling that person to use it for harm and I never want to do that again.
One thing I have not realized, until listening just now to Jay Reid, is that I was structured from an early age and into adulthood that MY having "fun" was nonproductive and a waste of time or liking someone or something that the narcissist didn't was wrong, wrong, wrong. I still carry those imposed ideals and having fun is harder for me than being "productive" BUT... Imma gonna work on THAT and start trying to actually enjoy life again, laugh more and enjoy a ride down a lovely country road without feeling guilty because "you should be doing ____ or ____" even if I don't have someone to share it with.
Very good discussion. Thank you both. Having growing up in a Narcissistic household l realized over 30 years how , how l subconsciously apply same principles as l have seen growing up. As a survival mechanism trough coping with the family dynamic we developed a distorted reality from the nature of self preservation. Is deeper than just labeling as narcissistic this or that , only the willingness and openness of working with the subconscious when is triggered and surface being aware of the distortion perception and habitual responses expressed and with constant practice working with them and with time can be changed while are conscious surfaced . Changing and rewiring the mind formations is deeper than labeling something.
Boy are they fond of telling you or implying you're the selfish one when you're just try into protect yourself. You're not allowed to be angry.... only they are and most likely they'll say you're the one who needs therapy!
@@wisconsinfarmer4742 just seen your comment and yes I agree. I'm the one who ends up loosing the plot and getting angry. I find there is zero discussion on anything. I've one who will rage and another who doesn't list at all to what I say but monitors my behaviour so everything looks good. It's like being under a microscope being watched and like I cannot breathe waiting for the criticism. They're full of the should shouldn't BUT need actual real help and advise and they can't be bothered. All they're bothered about is how things 'look'. Walking away, not engaging or discussing anything sadly seems the only way. ✌
Dr. C please invite Thais Gibson. She has a TH-cam channel, a decade long private practice, an online school called Personal Development School, and she teaches a lot of great things relating to growth after getting out of a narcissistic relationship. You two discussing topics will teach us tremendous amounts of valuable lessons.
@@SurvivingNarcissism yeah she is an absolute gold! So many tricks of not only surviving from narcissistic abuse but also growing from it in all areas of life up her sleeves.
My mom's narcissism emerged from stress. 10 kids in 12 years. She really mellowed as the child rearing load diminished. Anyway, her brutality toward me killed much of my own narcissism, and in that way I am grateful. That is looking at it from a particular perspective. What I got from this discussion is how to be aware, be conscious of what is going on and how to best react without being a jerk myself. There is no place in the galaxy that builds spiritual muscle like Earth.
I love the use of the term "self-enhancement" as a clear and non-pathologizing way to describe the unmet and often unknown needs the narcissist (s) may be trying to meet by behaving in a certain way over and over again.
The nature vs nurture thing in regards to NPD...This video helps confirm my suspicions that nature may load the proverbial gun with a higher risk of NPD but the actual NURTURING aspect of the caregiving is what ultimately does OR does not pull the trigger in regards to whether or not NPD is rhe end result in adulthood.Great video,I can feel my 🧠 being very stimulated by this whole discussion🙂👍🏻👍🏻.
You bet your boots it's life changing!My entire 🌎 view completely shifted after I learned about this stuff along with learning the differences between healthy & toxic behaviors in general...It was practically like learning to walk🥳🎉..
Great discussion! If I ever date again, I hope I am perceptive to their relationships with their parents and run like heck from those who are trauma based!
Our Doctor, did this again, just great, im ashamed of commenting, i feel so welcomed in this natural great words, mellow out ,thank ya, my go team healthy
Great discussion! Such a wealth of knowledge and experience here from both of you..I found looking at this subject from both angles really enlightening..I think I will need to watch this several times to really grasp the concepts expressed here...thankfully I can do just that, as it was recorded on this platform! I really appreciate both of you, and the very valuable work you do, and have done, to bring us understanding, and coping stategies........thank you
I am so glad there is light being brought to this subject. Growing up with a narcissistic mother who took turns fighting with her 3 children for decades, I have gotten to the point at 70 claiming my last years as mine. She is still going strong at 87, so my entire life was ruined. Wish I had this knowledge decades ago I might still be married. It is a life of hell for whoever is in their sphere. Alcoholic father, narcissistic mother. What chance did I have?
YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Both of my parents were alcoholic, and drug addicts. If anything, there is so much more to learn, and grow from, you know there is plenty to stick around for even if it's just music, good food, friends, travel, and LEARNING about how your experiences shaped you and how you can share that wisdom with others. PLEASE! NEVER EVER EVER! Give up!
Fantastic session. I read the book rethinking narcissism when it came out and have been following his channel along with yours. What a gem to have the two of you teamed up here. Thank you both and many blessings to your continued outreach and success.
I don’t think you can teach them to have empathy or compassion. All you have done is requested them to display those attributes. They will do that to fool you. They are master manipulators. It gives them great satisfaction to think they’ve fooled you.
While I have issues with science and i am trained in human development and very impressed with Dr Malkin. We science folks like categories. Its not always just in my view.
A narcissist is a narcissist is a narcissist. They all have no unselfish empathy for other human beings. Cold hearted but they may not be aware that how they treat others can be cruel. I am married to a diagnosed one for 30 years. It's a constant test and tribulation. But we are both still human.
"Bullying, center of attention, demanding, never listening deeply" "Inferiority easily triggered, inability to grow spiritually, biased." "Lack of sincere healthy curiosity, lack of introspective inquiry" I am temporarily engaged in discussions about _synchronistic mathematics_ with suspected narcissists in YT comment sections. Narcissists are habitual and exhibit patterns of inquiry which ends in devalue and degrade tactics. Never are they willing to validate calculations using an oline calculator--- which would lead me to share more empirical evidence. Example: what is the square root of 10.769--- the converted value of our address?
I really like these talks, because it deepens the conversation about narcissism and adds perspectives. I also like how dr. Craig came to study narcissism because of his mother. I too started learning about it because of my mother and the subsequent narcissistic partners I've had. Could you, dr. Carter perhaps speak about the mother wound that is caused by having a narcissistic mother and what one can do to fill up that lack in oneself? I have done some inner child work and give myself the things my mother didn't, but it is my understanding that the lack of love draws in narcissistic partners, and even though I'm getting better at taking care of me and my needs, I'm still not at ease about the feeling that I might attract another narc partner, which I really don't want. I do want love, not the lack of love after all.❤
Having a narc for a parent IS rough,in my case it's my father.Thankfully my mother loved me growing up but I basically still only got ½ the ♥️ I was supposed to get in my 🏠. Obviously learning self-love & valuing your needs is important.A big 🗝️ to no longer attracting narcs is building very strong boundaries, you've gotta stop overlooking 🚩s.You also need to have a low 💩 tolerance...Narcs will try to 💩-test you after a little while & you need to make it a point to not tolerate that stuff.Education+high self-esteem+strong boundaries=narc repellent...This is the formula I've come up with,feel free to use it if you like.I'm not Dr.C but I hope the perspective of another adult child of a narc is helpful for you,best wishes & stand on your principles even if a narc tries hard to get you to bend a knee👍🏻.
Wow super wordy but really good!!! As a mom my now grown son has asked his counselor if he is narcissistic- it is a worry he has. I tried for attachment security
Remembering Dr. Malkin's simple question asking "do you think you are a narcissist" is scary for me because I know I have had two of them, covert, in my life (one growing up and the other all of my adulthood). And I believe I may have some tendencies of narcissism when it regards THEM because I feel the need to guard myself when/if they come around me due to their constant criticism of me; otherwise I have peace of mind. I have no desire to be around them nor try to communicate with them (have learned I only frustrate myself when I do) and their better-than-you attitude towards others and myself makes me sick and I feel disgust towards them because of their total obvious lack of understanding or even a desire to understand that other person, just jumping straight to judging them and criticism. So having those feelings towards them I wonder if I, too, may be a 3 or 4 level narcissist... just being honest about it.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. You are not alone. I’ve often wondered this about myself because I have recently concluded that I can no longer be around the people who have emotionally tormented me for decades. For some reason being with them brings out the very worst in me. I do believe that now I am able to recognize this in myself because of watching many uTubes by Dr. Carter, others and having a good therapist. Don’t be too hard on yourself. Admitting what you feel are your flaws demonstrates growth from my view. With you in spirit!
@@lucindaburke6987 thank you. Just when I believe I have it all wrapped up and have taken a few steps forward then another side of this many faceted little gem appears as if to say, "what about me?" I am learning to be thankful for the small yet significant advances I have made even though it seems there is always something more around that curve and below that hill. God bless you. ❤️
@@ElsieDee001 I think it is definitely that, a BIG part of it anyway. What disturbs me is just when I believe I am comfortable with myself and who they truly are, accepting, here they come, hanging around and testing my fortitude. It's not just a test, really, it's WHO and WHAT they are that tests me. Being around them for long is like standing near an outhouse and hoping the wind don't blow my way. It's that "Expectation". It's bad enough just to know; but to HAVE to smell it too.... eventually I will go nose-blind, I suppose, but by the time that happens I probably won't even need an outhouse... anywhere will do, I won't care!
The smelling a outhouse comparison is drop-dead hilarious🤣👍🏻.I've always compared full-blown narcs to 🚶♀️ diaper pails that open every time they talk personally🤭.You SHOULD be guarded by the way,narcissistic people are predatory.Ever 👀 cute little songbirds relaxing on a fence when a giant hawk is flying nearby? Probably not.They all bolt into the treetops because they know a predator is near them & that it's a serious potential threat.Keep staying in those treetops & protect yourself whenever these types are nearby,stay strong💪🏻.
hopefully someday, narrcisism will be seen as an illness and not as evil in our time, to be hated because of their deeds. as long as people are emotionally in need themselves, they will be considered supply to be exploited and abused. the more realized any person is the stronger they will be in interacting with a person with NPD and avoid becoming a victim. the more educated people are, the better equiped they will be around dysfunctional people and situations. education, especially improving themselves is the best defense against narrcisism.
The rage stems from fear. If you can get them to self- reflect, ( good luck!) and say, ," I'm angry, what am I afraid of?" Then you might get somewhere...
Goof Interview. Covers more of the why? But any compassion, love and understanding I have put forth toward the narcissist and their choice outlook on life has only resulted in more sadness, ongoing struggles, continued rages, and even the possibility of getting beaten up. The potential for physical abuse is always on the table. And it doesn't matter what gender. It's always on the horizon and something that one simply can't proactively avoid .. unless of course one chooses not to interact with known narcissists. Any compassion that results even in the remote possibility of verbals or physical abuse makes it simply an imperative to veer clear of such individuals. Love and compassion are simply not a solution. So then what is? A restraining order and police engagement? Even CC'ing a third party helps keep a covert narcissist at bay.
My narc ex married a co-dependent that I’m sure rarely, if ever, fights back, so he settled into his new life quite comfortably. After 30 years, he seems to have mellowed out. But I should add he also has increased his effort to turn our grown children against me.
Why use normal (empathic) people as a catch all, and try to fit narcissists into the normal person category. Narcissists are their own category of personality. A shark is not a dolphin (without a conscience) A pit bull is not a golden retriever (without a conscience) A raptor is not a parrot (without a conscience) And A narcissist is not an empath (without a conscience They are a different breed/species of human.
There has to be a balance. We need to be able to recognize our emotions and feelings but not minimize ourselves or make major decisions off of emotion. Balance logic with emotion.
"You don't know what you're talking about" Yesterday, I happened to be telling my younger home care client about an earlier client who was VERY problematic, and how, at the end, I felt very good about the sitation, because my supervisor told me, "Oh, he's always a PAIN IN THE BUTT." This was the kind of thing I NEVER used to hear from a supervisor when I was in the engineering field. Well, my client replied saying, "The way things are nowadays, she'd probably get FIRED for saying a thing like that due to HIPPA LAW." Now, he's brought this up before-- with ME-- accusing me of violating HIPPA LAW when I happened to casually mention to a neighbor of his-- who I'd been getting friendly with... "Well, we haven't had any real problems the last 2 weeks." My client (definitely a narcisist, though not nearly as bad as my OLDER client, his partner) has an obsession with always trying to show he knows more than other people. But in this case, I'd had enough of this nonsense. After all, I work in the healthcare field, HE DOESN'T. I told him, "HIPPA LAW applies to MEDICAL information-- it has NOTHING to do with calling someone a PAIN IN THE ASS!" 😆 (Incidentally, some time ago, I asked one of my doctors about this very thing-- and they totally agreed with me. My client was clearly using "HIPPA LAW" as a weapon to shut somebody down. This is the same reason both my clients DON'T want me talking with any of THEIR doctors, nurses, etc... EVEN when it's purely friendly chat that has NOTHING to do with them. They're both paranoid that someone somewhere may find out something "bad" about them.)
'Rose colored glasses' meant to have an optimistic (maybe even considered gullible) in my day. To hear it as being compared to 'enlightened' I would have to take a step back. IF I heard that right?
Not to reduce the experience that veterans have in relation to "shell shock " but I can't find a better description. I am just so tired of abusive people. Is this normal, to just want to isolate and be left alone? I have always been a loner but now I just want to be alone all the time. With the exception of my adult children, I just want to be left alone.
I spend most of my time with my 2 Border Collies when I'm not at work as a 911 Paramedic. COVID decimated any small desire I had left to be social. I do go to Cross fit which I enjoy and spend my time hiking with my dogs. 2 years ago I started mining the internet for the term of narcissist and have learned so much. Therapists in my past have tried to work with symptoms but I'm gathering, until recently, an NPD was not formally isolated and defined and the destruction of their victims was just starting to be recognized and acknowledged. Joan, I cannot use the word'"Mother" to describe her, pretty much destroyed me as her only child. I'm working to heal but sometimes, I feel like the damage is too profound. Like our bodies though, we only know innately to heal and I will not abandon my fur kids. This lecture has added another level of education for me and I'm grateful to have stumbled upon it.
I don't know if it is normal or not but I can tell you that I feel it too. I am divorcing a husband with BPD, which has the same behaviors as covert narcissism , so I am sure that plays a role in the way I feel, but it feels like it is more than that. I feel like everywhere I turn all I see are self-absorbed, greedy, exploitative people and I am afraid to do anything like buy a new car, or buy a house because I have this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that if I don't comb over ever possible deal because there is nobody trying to run a fair trade business anymore so I have to be on the lookout for how they are trying to screw me over. It just seems like it is everywhere now, and I feel alone, and overwhelmed, and like I have to be really vigilant all the time. So, yes I just want to get away from everyone and be alone where I can let my guard down and relax.
Another great guest! Regarding emotional training - surely most of us adults didn’t receive anything like that, but we didn’t become narcissists. Might there be some collider bias going on here? 🤔
I'm hearing about narcissistic traits here that don't equate to having what is termed as NPD. People with NPD rarely seek help and rarely can be helped.
the greatest impediment to understanding and discussing narcissism is the name. It sure doesnt encourage people to discuss the issue with those affected.
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It’s crucial to understand what narcissism really means. The term narcissism is thrown around to the extent that people think they know what it means. Most however don’t. It’s essential to learn about the different types of narcissism and what they have in common in order to understand the signs. Especially the coverts are so subtle in their manipulation tactics that one hardly recognises them, if one is not familiar with the core concept of the disorder. Looking forward to today’s session.
@@barbarabagatin8962 also they cannot remember their lies (so ask a question more than once and you’ll notice different responses), and they’re definitely defensive and sensitive to perceived criticism so…
Given that only about 5 percent of the population has this disorder, there seem to be a lot of them around. This makes me think most of the people we hear about on this channel are somewhere on the narcissism spectrum but are not full blown narcissists.
@@Reneemfenn yes. As far as I know sometimes they can't remember everything but I don't want to justify: it is because of their lack of insight. This has been my experience. I think it is also laziness. And also being very cowards. Agree at the end: they can't remember to protect themselves but they get when you say them Ehy you are hurting me! And them: Why? This is really impossible to manage. Impulsive, overwhelmed about bs, afraid of everything, surrounded by untrustworthy people because they can't appreciate decent people but only those who are like them. And when it comes to hurt, they always remember and then that's the big lie. They also gashlight themselves because it must always others faults. Maybe some narcissists seems not to be so evil, but when they hurt and mostly bully they are close to be psychopaths because nobody can be an adult without accepting responsabilities. To not say of when they seek for revenge... Run. Asap.
Exactly most do not truly understand the characteristics.
Projection is a habit I try to challenge--- in myself and the other. I introspect often to remind myself how easily I may misunderstand or misinterpret what I may be expressing, or what the other is expressing. Our discussions online are devoid of visual clues, tone, volume, etc.
Context is essential in truthseeking.
I have really enjoyed this. The triple E: Exploitation, entitlement, and empathy impairment.
Dr. Malkin's videos are sooo good - bring a notepad and be prepared to google terms
I have come to realize that there are only two options when dealing with difficult situations, events and people: You either choose to learn from it or become bitter from it. I choose to learn, grow and become a stronger person for it. Thank you, doctors. Nice seeing Dr Malkin on here. TEAM HEALTHY!!
This is very fascinating. I just learned a lot.
My Covert mother abused me right up to the day she died and I never thought about my own anger. How I felt hurt, disrespected, belittled, undermine, minimized, invalidate, unwanted, unlovable, inhuman treatment, and I didn't like these feelings at all, but didn't know what to do with them. My Covert mother would even throw away foods I like to eat or my things and I had no way of leaving. Now, I just feel foolish. I hated the way I was being treated, but I couldn't express it to myself or anyone else. I just sat on them. Now, all these feelings our coming out. I'm finding healthy ways of letting them out, but its tough. I don't want to make anyone feel the way my NM made me feel. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.
Yup I had a soulmate relationship who would call me out, and then it would be shopping and sushi to make up, could not believe that mum (spelt with a B) still rented space
😢 I'm so sorry. You're a good person, and she was not. Sometimes it boils down to that simple. You deserved love, respect, support from her. You didn't know what you didn't know, so it's natural to feel foolish. She set you up to not see how she was toward you. And now the years of her abuse are becoming conscious to where you're able to voice them. Getting your voice back is like getting your life back. Very best wishes to you & your courageous healing.
@@dubaiedge Thank you so much for your encouraging words and letting me know it wasn't my fault.🩷
@@wulv1013 I'm sorry. It's hard to heal from these relationships. 💔
My mother was similar and she lived to be 99! I gave her the first 40 years of my life but probably more since I helped in her old age. 😢
Thank you for speaking to the anger that one has to feel to break free from
this emotional abuse. After 24 yrs of marriage I knew I would not get a truthful answer & would be on the same road as many other times.
The amount of narc supply these people get on social media is such fuel for their grandiosity.
I finally realized there to NOT be a relationship with this person ever.
I threw myself into trauma based therapy prior my discarding him.
Grateful for my health @ 72 & fearless
in finding out why I stayed so long.
Thank you for this content. Most helpful.😊
YESSS!!!!!!
WOW. The triple E effect. Exploitation, Entitlement, and Empathy impairment. To be honest I didn't know anything about the term narcissism. Once I located this and other channels, I begin to say oh wow, that is what I had been experiencing. Dr. Carter, as always thank you for bringing such an awesome guest to your channel. I had said that I would not read another book unless it was my own, but I have caught myself purchasing every guest that Dr. Carter has introduced to us.
Love the triple E , brilliant
I realize now it was the wrong thing to do, but before I became educated on this topic, I told my 60 year old boyfriend I thought he was a narcissist. . . when I explained why I thought so, he beamed with pride. He wears the title like a freaking badge. He's an overt narc, life of the party type. Talk about bizarro. Now I understand why.
Such a profound conversation! Toward the end of my time in a high-control religious group I asked the leader, “Would you ever consider that you are not special?” He replied, “No.”
I came from the same thing!
"Attachment security moderates narcissism." Indeed, Dr. C and Dr. Malkin! Thank you !
"There's a huge difference between selfish and self-preservation."
It's confusing when everything you do is interpreted in the worst way.
Thank you both.
That's a big issue for me. Feeling selfish and they're happy to call me selfish but I cannot cope with the way they are. They refuse to accept their part of the equations what else can we do but go against our nature and try and self preserve
@@bereal6590 I hope you work out what to do
@@michelepascoe6068 it's a balancing act plus learning and trying to be compassionate to myself. All my life I've wanted to protect my elderly mom yet it's done me no favours she will always be who she is. Being a soft touch I feel so bad for her background though she would deny it's affected her at all and that there is the problem. They can say they had it so hard but if you show them empathy they feel vulnerable and the next thing you're the bad guy and they put all their expectations onto me. You cant win and before you know it you're selfish. When someone is willing to break your psyche in favour of them being right I think you have to try to be a bit selfish for self preservation but it sits badly with me. I try to ignore it. Strange really I should feel bad about it because she rarely protected me as a child from abuse from others yet I beat myself up if I don't protect her. Her feelings and also physically. I was well trained lol! This channel is a God send. All the best to you
@@bereal6590 I relate to what you say. I tried so hard to please my mother, hoping for her acceptance till she died. She left two rejection messages for me to hear after her death. In my traumatised state, I was tolerating contempt and humiliation, so confused and afraid. I had nightmares and day frights for 6 months afterwards and almost all my loved ones were turned against me after decades of smear campaigning. She alienated 3 husbands from their children, yet acted the victim, helpless and harmless. And we all made excuses for her, never imagining she was doing her damage on purpose. We tried to comfort her and to be supportive.
Anyway, Dr Carter has explained it all and taught me what to do (video Calm Confidence). The books Mothers who Can't Love by Susan Forward and Why Does He Do That by Lundy Bancroft helped me a lot.
I had to detach emotionally from the people I loved who bullied me on her behalf and be realistic about who they all are. Lysa Terkeurst's book Good Boundaries and Goodbyes is very good.
The Crappy Childhood Fairy has a Ten Emergency Measures for when you're emotionally disregulated, to download, and a "daily practice" which helps unburden one's heart. God has been my strength and shield and the Bible my shining light in the darkness, but I misapplied some verses on forgiveness, grace, love and dying to self. Yeshua/Jesus knew when to walk away, remain silent before accusers who were determined to think ill of Him, and let people go. He did not JADE (Justify Argue Defend and Explain endlessly).
Read a list of Safe vs Unsafe behaviours for clarity. Peace and wisdom to you. We deserved to be loved but our mothers were poisonous. Forgive, let go of false hopes, accept the life you have and move on into calm waters with people who reciprocate love and kindness.
@@michelepascoe6068 you've had it very rough and worked very hard to get yourself back. Hugs and best wishes for the future :):)
Dr. Malkin is very interesting, mellow and likable. Thank you for having him.
You're welcome. I enjoyed him.
What really helped me was: to think of them as zombies and handle them as such. Like in "Walking Dead," when MaShone(?) first showed up in her dark hood, with two zombies, on leashes, with jaws and arms cut off, using them for cover amongst the rest of the zombies...they were her LOVED ONES, her family, who got "bit." She STILL loved them, but KNEW the ones she LOVED were "no longer there," and that it would take a MIRACLE FROM GOD HIMSELF TO HEAL THEM. Rather than kill them (like the rest of the zombies), she neutralized their ability to bite or grab her, but kept them on leashes, so she could survive...
That's how I look at some in my family and some others too...in order to survive.
It is SAD really. I no longer try to reason with "zombies," I love them from afar, where I am safe, and IF I have to get close, I MAKE SURE I do not let my guard down.
This has really helped me in this tragic situation. I choose to forgive, especially because it's not really exactly their fault that they got "bit,' and mostly do not even know they're "zombies."
BUT, forgiveness is NOT THE SAME as reconciliation. THAT will NOT be going to happen UNLESS and UNTIL they (we 😭) get A MIRACLE FROM GOD HIM SELF AND ARE HEALED.
😔
I Hope this makes sense
to someone out there, and
I HOPE THIS HELPS.
🫂✝️🫂
It’s so awesome and amazing to see Malkin and Carter sitting down to chat and compare notes! Rethinking Narcissism has helped me to see narcissism as a somewhat vital component of our individual and collective identities when appropriately balanced by humility, compassion, respect, civility, dignity… all the good stuff Dr. C encourages 😁 Dr. C’s channel has also been absolutely integral to my ability to understand how malignant narcissists operate, and how to avoid or at least mitigate the damaging effects of their toxic psychopathologies.
Outstanding session! Dr. C, thank you for inviting him onto your channel!
This was one of the best podcast episodes here - thanks !!!
Thanks, and on top of that, Dr. Malkin is a genuinely good guy.
Thank you for this meaningful conversation as I grapple with my elderly narcissistic brother. I’m searching for compassion for him even as I know there is no hope in getting through to him. 😢
My narcissistic brother is incarcerated. You're not alone You can't get through to them, but being compassionate anyway is who YOU are, and you do that for YOU. It's like being the cat lady who takes care of a bunch of ferals - they won't cuddle you but you love them from afar. You toss them free meals and hope they make an impact on the rat problem lol
Most narcissist, that I know of, have had traumatic childhoods, & seem to have developed this trait as a survival strategy. I have empathy for them, but knowing this doesn't necessarily mean they are easier to deal with.
LOVED THIS DISCUSSION.
Thank you both!
This has been so helpful for me, I have been in 2 relationships with narcs. This has validated that setting my boundaries was the right thing to do to save myself from the emotional abuse I was experiencing. My heart breaks for these people because it’s now clear to me they do not know what love really is.
This is a terrific discussion, thank you so much!💜
Dr C: I follow all of your postings - and this is the very best of the best - thanks to you both!
Wow! Thanks.
Thank you Dr. Carter for this live.Dr. Malkin is another great. I follow him, when I can I watch his video, he taught me a lot. Fab live. Looking forward.
I hope this one doesn't disappoint, Barbara. He was a good interview!
Hey whats up, yea buddy, im in Texas, this is rough, i hate living in my own skin, my Doctor said ,0 yea folks can get the traits, me finally going mad, watching this so called character problem, me 0 my, so you got fed up, knowing all of this is like step in to my world, my insight, of how to be a dog, how to be normal, knowing yes my commonsense, knowing, what it means to have a relationship with the Lord, knowing what the whole 9 yards, it made me sick, yea buddy, its in a lot of people, ride that train, right off track, i know what off track means, knowing what my wisdom of my heavenly Father, could be right on the top shelf, but if you like your sins, i like what being a drug addict dog, yeap ,knowing 0 ,people just dont do this, yea they do, what do they say, its a dog eat dog world, turn ugly all you need to, i hate living in my own skin, why cause i can play dog cramp, better than you, watch me, feed me to the dogs, i mistreated, a nut, go down in history, hec i hated turning dog, on any adult, i became out of sorts, ridiculous lies, playing like 0 you go to church, your whole life, about do every church in Texas, its where ,0 they thank im a decent,human, get me on the side, my drug is sex, my mercy, i know drugs, sex is your drug, you have been to millions of churches, the Bible says the devils job, take down the family, turn ugly, tell this drug addict your child like lies, im fed up, i cant take it back, the abuse a girl narcissist, done to another girl, it was like i let it happen, cause i do know what empathy, some type of wisdom, my skin will crawl to hell and back, cause i can play dog, like i step on a retard, it will destroy a good person, of course im not normal, i do like what peace for anyone suffering in this system, my problem was ,i became against a nut, life is not supposed to be like this, it was like, i destroy a troubled person, but being dum, its to much , get a grip, i had fall out, talk ugly, got fed up, 0 that person dont know nothing, they been what, feed me people, look at me, im a good person, im sorry the non human race is around my go team healthy, im sorry im ugly, im sorry i know how to get off track, its easy, its easy to be normal also, how could you, yea im sorry my narcissist is in fear, shame, if i did what the narcissist did, in life, i would be just breathing hec, i dont know, just be ok people, dont be ugly, if you feel anything, stay on track with the normal folks, 0 i got hurt, fed up, you folks have more than one narcissist, 0 yea, than it's the kids, im a one person dog, i only hurt one narcissist, im sorry, my Doctor can make, a person be real,
Great discussion about the Shame level and projection of the that shame. So interesting about childhood history and trauma. Some great quotes!
"Narcissists need help to develop a Dignity Feeling." - Dr, Craig Malkin.
"Narcissism represents a manner of life that is absent of love." - Dr. Les Carter
Compete with people that are not competing with them. In order to win they expect you to follow social norms that they themselves don't adhere to. Getting what they want is a common theme(setting others up so they can gain personally). Anger can be a response in normal people that are dealing with the selfish narcissist after years of abuse. A lot of time people never had a narc in their life and they don't know how to respond when they run into someone that is extremely selfish.
Wow; politicians...
Some very good insights here!
It's people like Doctor Malkin who give hope with the word of God for healing. All these videos will have a narcissist kill themselves feeling like nothing. God and acknowledgment can change anyone. I have recovered and even realized more about myself. There are few videos to help heal them.
Wonderful exchange between you & your guest, Dr. C. Thank you.
Great interview! Having read both of your books and listening on this podcast for so long. I just loved it. Thank you.
This was such a great discussion with great insights. Thank you kindly 💫
My covert ex-narc, aged 76, definitely got worse with age. As his looks failed, sexual ability, finances, etc., his moodiness and anger increased. His usual passive aggressive behavior increased. No mellowing here, as his sources of supply lessened.
They're at their WORST when they can't hardly reel in narcissistic supply...In my opinion this is primarily why most narcs get worse in old age😬.They can't handle having to face reality,they use supply to try to prop up that fantasy bubble...We all know how bad their response typically is when someone/something punches a big fat hole in that bubble😅.
I thought I had pretty good understanding of narcissism, (having been married to someone who was diagnosed with a NPD) but this exchange was amazing, and it gave me some new insights. Thank you
How did the person get to be diagnosed with NPD ? Doesn't seem to be a voluntary process that a narcissist would have summited themselves to have done?
@@terrycato2670 We went to marriage counseling for a year and a half. The counselor criticized both of us (M said he agreed with everything the therapist said about me-and I did too-by the time I filed for divorce I didn’t even like my own behavior) but claimed nothing the therapist said about him was accurate. We each had some one on one sessions with the counselor and he told me he believed M had a NPD, and I would never have the kind of relationship or marriage I wanted and deserved to have. He said the biggest barrier to us having a good relationship was M’s personality. We both took the MMPI and a couple of other personality tests. His MMPI came back with the notation “almost too perfect”. My ex didn’t see that as a red flag, but confirmation of how he felt about himself. Once I read about the signs and indicators of an NPD it was pretty clear. I think if you have 5 of the 9 prevalent characteristics you can be diagnosed. He had all 9. He and his first wife went to counseling together for quite a few months and those 2 therapists said the same thing. He was textbook, and the family dysfunctions all fit the bill too.
I come home from a great vacation to this giant rare steak and a side of Old Fashioned Donuts of a video with my two top favorite psychologists on the youtubes. What are you serious??!?!?! My karma must be excellent! Life is amazing without any narcs in it. I dumped my last one in 2007. With good fortune I will never have another. These communities are soooo healing!
Thank you both from the bottom of my wounded heart for this deeply informative collab. Dr. Carter, I have been following your videos since 2020 and I wish I would have you as my dad instead of a narc. You're literally my favorite TH-cam doctor. Dr. Malkin, you are...exquisite. a treasure trove of psychological terms/concepts - I have to frequently press pause and plug words into the search engine, as with your solo videos. Words cannot express how much I love this (working on psych undergrad). You have an amazing psychological vocabulary. I have been mining many of your videos and writings lately and absorbing from you for the last couple of months. From things you said in this video I thought of my mother, who accomplished TRULY amazing things before she passed despite being abused all her life. From one Echo (and daughter of Echo) to another, THANK YOU for encapsulating what she was up against, which helps me understand how amazing she really was. You are the best 💖
I can't believe this video happened!! YAYYYYY! Thank you both SO much!!
I need to admit that even now, I think, the reason I do so much in the way of building things and repairing things myself goes waaaaay back to being CONSTANTLY told "You can't do that, you're not smart enough or capable of _______", and it continued into my adulthood. It was crushing to me mentally. I have proven to myself that YES!!! I most definitely AM capable. Now these activities/projects just provide pleasure and fulfilment and I love to help others whom I know I can but I have also LEARNED there is a fine line of enabling, on my part, that I must be aware of and question my motives. Example, "Will doing this for this person really help THEM or am I still just reacting from an old bruise of worthlessness". I hate that I still have these conflicts running around in my head but at the same time I am grateful for them. It's just that sometimes the answer is not apparent and I feel really bad when I make a mistake which harms someone else.
Thank you for sharing because now I know I'm not the only one who suffers from this...although, I'm sorry you have to live that way because it's hard to figure out who to help and why.
@@mday3821 I am grateful that there are others who understand, thank you, because this dilemma is not an ethical one. That would be easier. I am not wanting nor trying to play God here, I have simply learned from experience that sometimes my "helping" was not helping but enabling that person to use it for harm and I never want to do that again.
One thing I have not realized, until listening just now to Jay Reid, is that I was structured from an early age and into adulthood that MY having "fun" was nonproductive and a waste of time or liking someone or something that the narcissist didn't was wrong, wrong, wrong. I still carry those imposed ideals and having fun is harder for me than being "productive" BUT... Imma gonna work on THAT and start trying to actually enjoy life again, laugh more and enjoy a ride down a lovely country road without feeling guilty because "you should be doing ____ or ____" even if I don't have someone to share it with.
In some cases my helping isn't always helpful. It was a hard lesson to learn.
I agree , proving oneself and owning it , well done sir
Very good discussion.
Thank you both.
Having growing up in a Narcissistic household l realized over 30 years how , how l subconsciously apply same principles as l have seen growing up.
As a survival mechanism trough coping with the family dynamic we developed a distorted reality from the nature of self preservation.
Is deeper than just labeling as narcissistic this or that , only the willingness and openness of working with the subconscious when is triggered and surface being aware of the distortion perception and habitual responses expressed and with constant practice working with them and with time can be changed while are conscious surfaced .
Changing and rewiring the mind formations is deeper than labeling something.
Boy are they fond of telling you or implying you're the selfish one when you're just try into protect yourself. You're not allowed to be angry.... only they are and most likely they'll say you're the one who needs therapy!
There does not seem to be any possible way for them to see themselves. Any attempt to do this turns me into the jerk. So I just walk away.
@@wisconsinfarmer4742 just seen your comment and yes I agree. I'm the one who ends up loosing the plot and getting angry. I find there is zero discussion on anything. I've one who will rage and another who doesn't list at all to what I say but monitors my behaviour so everything looks good. It's like being under a microscope being watched and like I cannot breathe waiting for the criticism. They're full of the should shouldn't BUT need actual real help and advise and they can't be bothered. All they're bothered about is how things 'look'. Walking away, not engaging or discussing anything sadly seems the only way. ✌
Dr. C please invite Thais Gibson. She has a TH-cam channel, a decade long private practice, an online school called Personal Development School, and she teaches a lot of great things relating to growth after getting out of a narcissistic relationship. You two discussing topics will teach us tremendous amounts of valuable lessons.
Duly noted.
@@SurvivingNarcissism yeah she is an absolute gold! So many tricks of not only surviving from narcissistic abuse but also growing from it in all areas of life up her sleeves.
Another fabulous interview. Listened to it twice. Thanks.
GREAT interview. Excellent information. Very useful & helpful. Thanks, Docs!
THANKS, DR C. Appreciate intro to Dr Malkin. Have a blessed day, all. TM Healthy 👋
Great interview! So insightful. Thank you both.
My mom's narcissism emerged from stress. 10 kids in 12 years. She really mellowed as the child rearing load diminished.
Anyway, her brutality toward me killed much of my own narcissism, and in that way I am grateful. That is looking at it from a particular perspective.
What I got from this discussion is how to be aware, be conscious of what is going on and how to best react without being a jerk myself.
There is no place in the galaxy that builds spiritual muscle like Earth.
I love the use of the term "self-enhancement" as a clear and non-pathologizing way to describe the unmet and often unknown needs the narcissist (s) may be trying to meet by behaving in a certain way over and over again.
The nature vs nurture thing in regards to NPD...This video helps confirm my suspicions that nature may load the proverbial gun with a higher risk of NPD but the actual NURTURING aspect of the caregiving is what ultimately does OR does not pull the trigger in regards to whether or not NPD is rhe end result in adulthood.Great video,I can feel my 🧠 being very stimulated by this whole discussion🙂👍🏻👍🏻.
When he saw me as competition, I became the enemy.
I took decades to realize that everything is competitive to them. That is why they hate excellence in others so much.
Excellent video. Thank You both for making and sharing this with us.
Thanks to this knowledge people dealing with these individuals come to realise that they are not the ones with a problem and this is a game changer .
You bet your boots it's life changing!My entire 🌎 view completely shifted after I learned about this stuff along with learning the differences between healthy & toxic behaviors in general...It was practically like learning to walk🥳🎉..
33:20 The 3 stop signs: Emotional / physical abuse, psychopathy (remorseless lies / manipulation,) denial no changing.
Great discussion! If I ever date again, I hope I am perceptive to their relationships with their parents and run like heck from those who are trauma based!
Get ahead at the expense of crushing another person’s soul. Narcissism.
Our Doctor, did this again, just great, im ashamed of commenting, i feel so welcomed in this natural great words, mellow out ,thank ya, my go team healthy
Thanks, Linda.
Two good people - simple as that!
Great discussion!
Such a wealth of knowledge and experience here from both of you..I found looking at this subject from both angles really enlightening..I think I will need to watch this several times to really grasp the concepts expressed here...thankfully I can do just that, as it was recorded on this platform!
I really appreciate both of you, and the very valuable work you do, and have done, to bring us understanding, and coping stategies........thank you
This is a great interview! I loved Dr. Malkin’s book and your channel Dr. C. This was a true treat! Thank you!
I am so glad there is light being brought to this subject. Growing up with a narcissistic mother who took turns fighting with her 3 children for decades, I have gotten to the point at 70 claiming my last years as mine. She is still going strong at 87, so my entire life was ruined. Wish I had this knowledge decades ago I might still be married. It is a life of hell for whoever is in their sphere. Alcoholic father, narcissistic mother. What chance did I have?
YOU ARE NOT ALONE. Both of my parents were alcoholic, and drug addicts. If anything, there is so much more to learn, and grow from, you know there is plenty to stick around for even if it's just music, good food, friends, travel, and LEARNING about how your experiences shaped you and how you can share that wisdom with others. PLEASE! NEVER EVER EVER! Give up!
Excellent discussion!
Excellent excellent discussion. Love these interviews. Insightful. Keep spreading light.
Fantastic session. I read the book rethinking narcissism when it came out and have been following his channel along with yours. What a gem to have the two of you teamed up here. Thank you both and many blessings to your continued outreach and success.
Love this conversation. SO helpful. Bless you and thank you xx
I don’t think you can teach them to have empathy or compassion. All you have done is requested them to display those attributes. They will do that to fool you. They are master manipulators. It gives them great satisfaction to think they’ve fooled you.
While I have issues with science and i am trained in human development and very impressed with Dr Malkin. We science folks like categories. Its not always just in my view.
A narcissist is a narcissist is a narcissist. They all have no unselfish empathy for other human beings. Cold hearted but they may not be aware that how they treat others can be cruel. I am married to a diagnosed one for 30 years. It's a constant test and tribulation. But we are both still human.
Narcissism needs a new name. As it is it implies self love.
"Bullying, center of attention, demanding, never listening deeply"
"Inferiority easily triggered, inability to grow spiritually, biased."
"Lack of sincere healthy curiosity, lack of introspective inquiry"
I am temporarily engaged in discussions about _synchronistic mathematics_ with suspected narcissists in YT comment sections. Narcissists are habitual and exhibit patterns of inquiry which ends in devalue and degrade tactics. Never are they willing to validate calculations using an oline calculator--- which would lead me to share more empirical evidence.
Example: what is the square root of 10.769--- the converted value of our address?
I really like these talks, because it deepens the conversation about narcissism and adds perspectives. I also like how dr. Craig came to study narcissism because of his mother. I too started learning about it because of my mother and the subsequent narcissistic partners I've had. Could you, dr. Carter perhaps speak about the mother wound that is caused by having a narcissistic mother and what one can do to fill up that lack in oneself? I have done some inner child work and give myself the things my mother didn't, but it is my understanding that the lack of love draws in narcissistic partners, and even though I'm getting better at taking care of me and my needs, I'm still not at ease about the feeling that I might attract another narc partner, which I really don't want. I do want love, not the lack of love after all.❤
Having a narc for a parent IS rough,in my case it's my father.Thankfully my mother loved me growing up but I basically still only got ½ the ♥️ I was supposed to get in my 🏠. Obviously learning self-love & valuing your needs is important.A big 🗝️ to no longer attracting narcs is building very strong boundaries, you've gotta stop overlooking 🚩s.You also need to have a low 💩 tolerance...Narcs will try to 💩-test you after a little while & you need to make it a point to not tolerate that stuff.Education+high self-esteem+strong boundaries=narc repellent...This is the formula I've come up with,feel free to use it if you like.I'm not Dr.C but I hope the perspective of another adult child of a narc is helpful for you,best wishes & stand on your principles even if a narc tries hard to get you to bend a knee👍🏻.
I love it. Rose colored glasses of self.
Wow. Just wow. I was taking notes furiously. Thank you so much.
I saw his interview on Being Well with Forest Hanson! Excited for this one as well
Wow super wordy but really good!!! As a mom my now grown son has asked his counselor if he is narcissistic- it is a worry he has. I tried for attachment security
If he's asking, he's VERY likely not. 😘
You did great, mama! 🥰
@@makesnodifference thank you!
It's darkly funny that narciccisits interpret the question "Do you think you're a narcissist?" as "Do you think you're exceptional?"
Very enlightening thank you guys
Thank you Gentlemen, this was very helpful.
Thanks for calling me a gentleman.
@@SurvivingNarcissism 🤣🤣🤣
Love your collaborations! Thank you both. Always learn from your videos.👍👏
Hi Dr Carter Gus and Team Healthy
Hi there, Stacy!
Great talk guys
Very nice interview! Truly enjoyed M. Malkin. Thank you so much
Remembering Dr. Malkin's simple question asking "do you think you are a narcissist" is scary for me because I know I have had two of them, covert, in my life (one growing up and the other all of my adulthood). And I believe I may have some tendencies of narcissism when it regards THEM because I feel the need to guard myself when/if they come around me due to their constant criticism of me; otherwise I have peace of mind. I have no desire to be around them nor try to communicate with them (have learned I only frustrate myself when I do) and their better-than-you attitude towards others and myself makes me sick and I feel disgust towards them because of their total obvious lack of understanding or even a desire to understand that other person, just jumping straight to judging them and criticism. So having those feelings towards them I wonder if I, too, may be a 3 or 4 level narcissist... just being honest about it.
Thank you so much for sharing your story. You are not alone. I’ve often wondered this about myself because I have recently concluded that I can no longer be around the people who have emotionally tormented me for decades. For some reason being with them brings out the very worst in me. I do believe that now I am able to recognize this in myself because of watching many uTubes by Dr. Carter, others and having a good therapist. Don’t be too hard on yourself. Admitting what you feel are your flaws demonstrates growth from my view. With you in spirit!
@@lucindaburke6987 thank you. Just when I believe I have it all wrapped up and have taken a few steps forward then another side of this many faceted little gem appears as if to say, "what about me?" I am learning to be thankful for the small yet significant advances I have made even though it seems there is always something more around that curve and below that hill. God bless you. ❤️
What you do sounds more like self-preservation and defense mechanism.
@@ElsieDee001 I think it is definitely that, a BIG part of it anyway. What disturbs me is just when I believe I am comfortable with myself and who they truly are, accepting, here they come, hanging around and testing my fortitude. It's not just a test, really, it's WHO and WHAT they are that tests me. Being around them for long is like standing near an outhouse and hoping the wind don't blow my way. It's that "Expectation". It's bad enough just to know; but to HAVE to smell it too.... eventually I will go nose-blind, I suppose, but by the time that happens I probably won't even need an outhouse... anywhere will do, I won't care!
The smelling a outhouse comparison is drop-dead hilarious🤣👍🏻.I've always compared full-blown narcs to 🚶♀️ diaper pails that open every time they talk personally🤭.You SHOULD be guarded by the way,narcissistic people are predatory.Ever 👀 cute little songbirds relaxing on a fence when a giant hawk is flying nearby? Probably not.They all bolt into the treetops because they know a predator is near them & that it's a serious potential threat.Keep staying in those treetops & protect yourself whenever these types are nearby,stay strong💪🏻.
The why is absolutely part of the work!
hopefully someday, narrcisism will be seen as an illness and not as evil in our time, to be hated because of their deeds. as long as people are emotionally in need themselves, they will be considered supply to be exploited and abused. the more realized any person is the stronger they will be in interacting with a person with NPD and avoid becoming a victim. the more educated people are, the better equiped they will be around dysfunctional people and situations. education, especially improving themselves is the best defense against narrcisism.
The rage stems from fear. If you can get them to self- reflect, ( good luck!) and say, ," I'm angry, what am I afraid of?" Then you might get somewhere...
Good self preserving sermon with an echo
Control instead of compassion.✅
Thank you.
I'm subscribed to Dr. Malkin's channel too! Great session
Goof Interview. Covers more of the why? But any compassion, love and understanding I have put forth toward the narcissist and their choice outlook on life has only resulted in more sadness, ongoing struggles, continued rages, and even the possibility of getting beaten up. The potential for physical abuse is always on the table. And it doesn't matter what gender. It's always on the horizon and something that one simply can't proactively avoid .. unless of course one chooses not to interact with known narcissists. Any compassion that results even in the remote possibility of verbals or physical abuse makes it simply an imperative to veer clear of such individuals. Love and compassion are simply not a solution. So then what is? A restraining order and police engagement? Even CC'ing a third party helps keep a covert narcissist at bay.
That was my thing too, it only seems to exacerbate them cause baby didn't get their bottle 🍼
My narc ex married a co-dependent that I’m sure rarely, if ever, fights back, so he settled into his new life quite comfortably. After 30 years, he seems to have mellowed out. But I should add he also has increased his effort to turn our grown children against me.
Why use normal (empathic) people as a catch all, and try to fit narcissists into the normal person category.
Narcissists are their own category of personality.
A shark is not a dolphin (without a conscience)
A pit bull is not a golden retriever (without a conscience)
A raptor is not a parrot (without a conscience)
And
A narcissist is not an empath (without a conscience
They are a different breed/species of human.
There has to be a balance. We need to be able to recognize our emotions and feelings but not minimize ourselves or make major decisions off of emotion. Balance logic with emotion.
Fantastic interview!
"You don't know what you're talking about"
Yesterday, I happened to be telling my younger home care client about an earlier client who was VERY problematic, and how, at the end, I felt very good about the sitation, because my supervisor told me, "Oh, he's always a PAIN IN THE BUTT." This was the kind of thing I NEVER used to hear from a supervisor when I was in the engineering field. Well, my client replied saying, "The way things are nowadays, she'd probably get FIRED for saying a thing like that due to HIPPA LAW." Now, he's brought this up before-- with ME-- accusing me of violating HIPPA LAW when I happened to casually mention to a neighbor of his-- who I'd been getting friendly with... "Well, we haven't had any real problems the last 2 weeks." My client (definitely a narcisist, though not nearly as bad as my OLDER client, his partner) has an obsession with always trying to show he knows more than other people. But in this case, I'd had enough of this nonsense. After all, I work in the healthcare field, HE DOESN'T. I told him, "HIPPA LAW applies to MEDICAL information-- it has NOTHING to do with calling someone a PAIN IN THE ASS!" 😆
(Incidentally, some time ago, I asked one of my doctors about this very thing-- and they totally agreed with me. My client was clearly using "HIPPA LAW" as a weapon to shut somebody down. This is the same reason both my clients DON'T want me talking with any of THEIR doctors, nurses, etc... EVEN when it's purely friendly chat that has NOTHING to do with them. They're both paranoid that someone somewhere may find out something "bad" about them.)
I'm special, superior, etc. = Pride. Narcissism is just sinful pride.
'Rose colored glasses' meant to have an optimistic (maybe even considered gullible) in my day. To hear it as being compared to 'enlightened' I would have to take a step back. IF I heard that right?
Excellent discussion
Not to reduce the experience that veterans have in relation to "shell shock " but I can't find a better description.
I am just so tired of abusive people. Is this normal, to just want to isolate and be left alone? I have always been a loner but now I just want to be alone all the time.
With the exception of my adult children, I just want to be left alone.
Yes, sometimes you just need to pull back into your own quiet space.
I spend most of my time with my 2 Border Collies when I'm not at work as a 911 Paramedic. COVID decimated any small desire I had left to be social. I do go to Cross fit which I enjoy and spend my time hiking with my dogs. 2 years ago I started mining the internet for the term of narcissist and have learned so much. Therapists in my past have tried to work with symptoms but I'm gathering, until recently, an NPD was not formally isolated and defined and the destruction of their victims was just starting to be recognized and acknowledged. Joan, I cannot use the word'"Mother" to describe her, pretty much destroyed me as her only child. I'm working to heal but sometimes, I feel like the damage is too profound. Like our bodies though, we only know innately to heal and I will not abandon my fur kids. This lecture has added another level of education for me and I'm grateful to have stumbled upon it.
I don't know if it is normal or not but I can tell you that I feel it too. I am divorcing a husband with BPD, which has the same behaviors as covert narcissism , so I am sure that plays a role in the way I feel, but it feels like it is more than that. I feel like everywhere I turn all I see are self-absorbed, greedy, exploitative people and I am afraid to do anything like buy a new car, or buy a house because I have this sick feeling in the pit of my stomach that if I don't comb over ever possible deal because there is nobody trying to run a fair trade business anymore so I have to be on the lookout for how they are trying to screw me over. It just seems like it is everywhere now, and I feel alone, and overwhelmed, and like I have to be really vigilant all the time. So, yes I just want to get away from everyone and be alone where I can let my guard down and relax.
Another great guest! Regarding emotional training - surely most of us adults didn’t receive anything like that, but we didn’t become narcissists. Might there be some collider bias going on here? 🤔
Thank you
I’m buying that book. 😊
*Respect
I'm hearing about narcissistic traits here that don't equate to having what is termed as NPD. People with NPD rarely seek help and rarely can be helped.
Great video, thanks
the greatest impediment to understanding and discussing narcissism is the name. It sure doesnt encourage people to discuss the issue with those affected.
Doc is on