I came into this expecting a "too many Jungle Hijinx remixes" rant, but I got something much better. Fun fact, did you know Tropical Freeze has an earlier "Bonus Win" theme that can be heard in a Gamespot preview (the Cannon Canyon coverage)? Even that one gets the notes right, as it should!
When i saw the thumbnail, i thought this was gonna be about Donkey Kong's moveset (4 smash games just for a roll, and he still missing his voice or barrels) or its neglected representation for the most part (it took 3 games since Brawl to finally get a assist trophy and took an entire fighter ballot or two to finally get K. Rool in) The Victory theme was the last thing i would ever think about, cause its the least of DK's problems
I know those are more pressing issues, but those are also points everyone else has already talked to death about. I just wanted to bring this to light as yet another way Sakurai and the team continue to do DK dirty for no good reason.
This is the musical equivalent to me noticing Talonflame's wing feather closest to its body clips everytime it flaps its wings since XY which they eventually fixed in Scarlet and Violet. But how did the modelers never noticed it until then is beyond me
I will never be able to unhear this. Fr tho it's odd how they got this wrong, I wonder if when redoing songs for future iterations they don't look at the original version of it but rather at the past smash games iterration, carrying on the same mistake over and over.
I know this is A nitpick. ignoring that DK sounds like A real gorilla in smash bros. It also bothers me that DK looks so mad in A lot of his moves. In his series he's such A goofy guy who's also pretty chill. If anything, he would be A lot more playful about A fight like in Punch out wii. OK RANT OVER.
Really thought this was gonna be about his bad moveset or the gorilla noises, which are definitely Donkey Kong problems but was plesantly surprised with the musical topic, as a music fan, but also slightly infuriated I will never be able to unhear this. Great video!
Also similar vibes to the "Sakurai has bias to his more like franchises," this even applies to parts of franchises. Maybe you've heard of it, but the amount of bias towards Sakurai-directed Kirby games, even in Ultimate, is insane. I mean the ultimate spirits are okay, but in terms of stages and such represented, Kirby has very little love for any game past Air Ride, or even the Dark Matter Trilogy, beyond Ultra Sword and Masked Dedede Rush final smashes. Understandable as Kirby is his baby, but still.
Yeah, I know his moveset and voice are technically bigger issues, but because of that, those topics have been talked to death and I wanted to add something new to the conversation. Also you're welcome for the burden of cursed knowledge!
"and you are a strawman" Man I am SO GLAD I didn't realize that joke until that line. I... Using a Straw Man, for a Strawman argument, I love you so much. Also; just wanna voice, for someone who, and I quote "Doesn't have the musical understanding to properly explain this" you did a really good job on those final themes. They are different, but I think in a good way that changes them into something else, I think one of the down notes at the end of Saria's song could've also gone to turn it into a beautiful lullabye.
People complain about missing Kongs in DK rap... but that remix is so bad that I didn't care, but now you tell me about this and I start thinking: they get wrong in 64, and they use that version to base on because the music is "already done" in the smash archives and never listen the original again to remake it.
I only noticed this one very recently, since I only played the original game recently, but the version of "Eternal Bond" in Smash is slightly different to the Radiant Dawn version. In the original, at the end of the loop, the precussion cuts out entirely for a bried period to out emphasis on the melody, then repeats the melody with precussion to add intensity. In the Smash version the orecussion cuts out only to awkwardly fade in immediately after, at which point the song repeats the same melody twice for no particular reason anymore. This is in spite of the fact that both are the exact same song otherwise. It's not like it's a rearrangement or anything.
What’s even sadder is that this is only one of many things wrong with DK’s music in Smash like seriously, where the hell is the music from both versions of DKC3
I know, right? We get 8 different versions of Jungle Hijijnx, and a half dozen title themes, but no Mine Cart Madness? No Fear Factory? Treetop Rock? Aquatic Ambiance? Forest Interlude? Flight of the Zinger? Mill Fever? Rockface Rumble? Busted Bayou? Anything? They seriously do DK dirty on a number of levels.
I mean, there was Ridley flying in the background... ...of Brinstar... ...when his area has always been Norfair... Yeah, Smash is weird about which series get preferential treatment.
@@kirbyofthestarsfan I know that. But I also understood what the initial commenter was talking about and wasn't about to derail the conversation with an "erm... acktually".
My fav example of Sakurai disregarding the DK series for no good reason is when they cut Lanky and Chunky’s verse out of the DK Rap. Now this could make sense since the Wii U was a less powerful console than the Switch so they cut it down like they did other old Smash songs. So then WHY did they not put them back in Ultimate? You’re telling me in the game with two One Winged Angel versions and 50+ SNK song you couldn’t just use the version with Lanky and Chunky? They just ported it from Smash 4 without a second thought, and those two verses are now lost to time, a shame.
It's funny, I clicked on this video expecting how the Tropical Freeze OST got completely and utterly snubbed in Ultimate (which it unquestionably did), and instead got a rant about a jingle I have barely thought of in years along with some very cursed new jingle remixes. I'm still upset about the Tropical Freeze thing (seriously, there are so SO many songs that would work extremely well in Smash but just weren't included in favor of... first level theme? Really?), but I guess I have a new thing to be annoyed about.
@@brosephlacasquevtuber Big Top Bop, Homecoming Hijinx (aka the MAIN FREAKING THEME), Punch Bowl, Lord Frederick's theme, so many freaking options and they chose... yet another Jungle Hijinx remix. It's actually really frustrating. I'm also quite sad at the lack of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon representation in the soundtrack, but that would have been a deep cut so I can't be actively frustrated over that.
@@orangeslash1667 None of those are from DKC Tropical Freeze though. Don't get me wrong, I like those songs too, but the fact that the most recent (and imo best) soundtrack in the series was just utterly ignored is incredibly frustrating. Seriously, give Windmill Hills a listen and tell me it doesn't put a smile on your face.
I know I said this on an earlier video of yours but I love videos that rant about the most minor of things for far longer than what is necessary. Also as a certified Kirby fanboy, the Kirby dance edit at the end of the video made me wince so hard. That was disgusting.
I also hate how in Ultimate they cut off the last few staccato 8th notes of Yoshi's victory theme, despite those notes being IN Smash 4's version of his victory fanfare. Like literally all they had to do was keep it the same as it was in Smash 4, like they did with like every other character, but nooooo they removed it for no reason and it bothers the fuck out of me every time I win a match while playing as Yoshi.
It's a travesty. Along with how the Tal Tal Heights remix from Brawl is approximately 5% "Tal Tal Heights" and mostly the Link's Awakening field theme.
This was amazing, I didn’t know how you could stretch a 13 min vid from one jingle but I was fully engaged and my jaw dropped from the tropical freeze example, Inlove dk and smash but dangit that character, needs some better representation
Despite it being two notes missing, and despite the fact that I had definitely heard the bonus theme before playing Smash Bros for the first time, I always forget that DK's victory theme in Smash was actually the bonus theme from his games. It's strange to think about, but the missing notes in combination with the instrumentation being flutes instead of brass always throws me off into thinking "That's an awfully obscure piece of DK music." That's a huge problem that I can't believe got through every single Smash game. If you did that to Megalovania, removing every third note, you'd recognize it from the instruments. If you play all the notes on piano, you'd recognize it from the melody regardless of tempo. Skip every third note of Megalovania on piano and suddenly it sounds like a cheap knockoff or worse, like a brand new song, unless you have prior knowledge. Someone like me who only played DKCR a few times and DKCTF when the game was on Wii U would probably have similar trouble. Glad I now know why that victory theme always bugged me so much... Now I'll never un-hear it, so thanks.
What I noticed at the end was that the pieces I wasn't super familiar with sounded fine to me, but the pieces I knew well felt off. Overall, I think you did a good job of illustrating your point. Also, before I clicked on the vid, I thought this would be about how the DK Rap cut out Lanky and Chunky despite being present in Brawl.
this is by far one of my favorite videos on youtube now. beautifully articulated, buckets of calculated pettiness, an obscene amount of research. what more could you want?? these two damn notes back
Honestly I think the thing that bothers me the most about Donkey Kong representation in Ultimate is the lack of Spirits for Returns and Tropical Freeze, as there's only three novices and nothing more. It stinks, especially as a wii kid who not only loved Returns, but had it as one of their first ever games.
OK, here's one. The Zelda series track called "Tal Tal Heights" is actually mostly a remix of the field theme from Link's Awakening with only the intro and ending of the Tal Tal Heights area theme randomly thrown in there.
@@pmdmakesmecri2Onett in Brawl has a incorrect song title (the song used is Bein’ Friends, but the title of the song is Onett (tho its kinda justified since mother 1 wasnt released into the us yet so uhm)
I never noticed that with DK's Victory, so I certainly learned something today. On a somewhat related note, I recall being disappointed upon hearing Gladion's Theme in Ultimate. When I saw it was getting a remix, I imagined something like what GaMetal made. A high-energy theme with guitars rocking out. Instead, what I got was a low-energy theme that sounded more fitting for an emotional moment with Gladion than a battle. Additionally, thanks to a friend, I realized Cynthia's theme also sort of lacks that same energy. I just never noticed because I never really listened to the original. And of course, there's the shortening of the DK Rap, Brinstar (Melee), and Pollyanna. On one hand, I sort of understand why they did so, since they weren't initially sure how much music they could fit into Ultimate. On the other hand. Bayonetta came in with a few of her five-minute long songs (and that's before DLC was a thing) so the gimping of them stands out. I hope Smash 6 gives Gladion and Cynthia justice, while restoring the proper lengths of DK Rap, Brinstar (Melee), and Pollyanna.
The other detail I've noticed is that by removing the pickup note and raised note, they also removed the descending countermelody. Combined with the more "in time" nature of the smsh version, it ends up making the aforementioned smash versions feel washed out or watered down in compariosn to the original. Combined with DK's lackluster moveset and lack of his iconic vouce, makes this version of Nintendo's great ape feel like a knockoff rather than celebrating the real deal.
This was a super well-made and funny video, but I'm curious on why you say taking away a few notes is really any different than adding notes. It's still changing the "lyrics" of the song, so you're still not keeping the original intact. So what makes the Tropical Freeze version okay when the Smash Bros. version isn't? Personally I think both adding and removing notes for a remix is fine so long as it serves the remix in sounding good. I was originally going to comment that I thought Metal Man's theme was a bad example, but after going to listen to it, I have to admit I think the remix is really good in its own way, and they probably just saw fit to mostly remove the counterbeats since it would fit the style of what they were trying to make better. I guess all I'm trying to say is I don't understand why Tropical Freeze gets a pass if Smash Bros. doesn't. As far as personal preference is concerned though, yeah, I totally understand if you're not a fan of the Smash Bros. one. I don't mind it myself, but again, that's just opinion. Anyway, even if I'm not sure I agree with it, don't let that take away from that I really did enjoy the video!
I think the bigger difference here is how, because Tropical Freeze doubles down on it, it's still pretty recognizable as a jazzier version. While, with the Smash Bros ones, there's a lot of people in this comment section talking about not even recognizing it as the bonus win theme.
@@fabiosonhandogrande1697 That's crazy, because I've played Tropical Freeze, and honestly I never would have realized that was meant to be a remix of the bonus win theme if not for this video. I think it sounds pretty good, but it being a remix was never obvious to me because it sounds like a completely different song.
@@KyletheReflectionist Same could be said about the Smash ones, but... As the video itself points out, David Wise viewed those key details as important. Even if he didn't think much on them as he did it, that still means it felt obvious to him that they should be emphasized. Focusing on the fun. While the smash versions just went with simplifying what was already simple, and stuck with it for 25 years.
I can see why u don't enjoy DK's victory theme in smash, and I do love the original, but I still like the smash versions imo... The one since Brawl I hate tho cuz of the pitch like c'mon why did they make it to that high!?
Always knew it sound different, couldn't put my fihger on why exactly. My guess is that they skipped what they thought was "redundant" and do a more simple composition and since it's going waay faster is barely noticeable.
I honestly thought it was about DK not having a voice, and they stuck to whatever the heck we have. Not Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool, King Dedede and not even Bowser have the voices we know, just Bowser Jr. JUST HIM ALONE!
this is kinda how i feel with some gangplank galleon remixes, they all miss the rising synth at the beginning that makes the song cool after looking at multiple remixes only one on youtube actually had that but they changed it to an electric guitar to make it even cooler
Man, I thought you were going to be discussing mechanics of the character, not burdening me with Eldritch knowledge that I have to be presently aware of for the remainder of my life.
Musician here While it isn't a big deal for non musicians, believe me, there's nothing worse than hearing one song or melody that you love, and hear that "something" is missing It could be a cover, remix, or a live version, but if something is missing, you notice it
In general I'm not a fan of the Smash Bros. victory themes... They're TOO orchestral. And I know that sounds like kind of an odd complaint, but I feel like they just don't... Pop as much? I don't know the right words for it. They don't sound like the snappy victorious feeling you should expect from a victory theme.
You’re not overreacting, I didn’t even recognize the theme when you first played it despite also playing DKC in my childhood. I just assumed it was some song from a Donkey Kong game that I hadn’t played.
I mean, I don’t hate most of the songs at the end. The only one that rubbed me the wrong way was the Kirby one. Hell, the Zelda theme sounded a little more relaxing. That being said, I don’t really have any strong opinions on music
Man on the topic of weird decisions that only just a few people care about when it comes to the music in Smash... I can't be the only person who's also upset the only Hideki Naganuma song got removed from Smash right? Right There, Ride On was the closest thing we had to a JSR song in the game. And even then Sonic Rush deserves a track in there.
Huh, pretty interesting. I'm not much of a DK fan so I never thought anything was wrong. I'm also not a Zelda fan so I don't know what you did to Zelda's Lullaby. However I am a Xenoblade fan so I do understand the criticisms of the Smash version of Counterattack not being right so I've gotta get behind your movement to get it rearranged. I just need the original Counterattack to be in the game.
When it comes to the fighter's victory themes, Sonic definitely got it the worst. They didn't even compose his victory theme and just literally took the one from Sonic 06. This was understandable in Brawl as he was added in last minute but two games later and he still has that same theme?
I was expecting Smash’s rather abysmal DK representation especially in Smash Ultimate, with none of the characters having their VAs (same goes with Bowser especially after Bowser Jr. got in), to the stages just being Jungle and not a single Minecart level…or Frantic Factory…or Krockodile Isle…or freaking Autumn Heights, to the music just being the DK Island Swing taking 1/3 of DK’s music library and no music from Country 3, said music only having one track from DK64 & Tropical Freeze one that’s now a dated terrible remix that’s been getting butchered and one that’s just same theme from Tropical Freeze, to the fact it took 3 games for the series to get an assist trophy, to the complete neglect of the modern Retro Country games getting shafted in Ultimate as well as the very barebones representation of the Rare trilogy with like 3-4 Kremlings getting repped as trophies/spirits that aren’t K. Rool, like it’s been bothering me since Smash Ultimate’s launch and nobody ever talks about it
I'm not sure whether to love or hate how you went out of your way to illustrate the note removal in other series just to make us uncomfortable too LMAO
IDK man, they've let this problem slide for 25 years. They've already had 2 opportunities to fix their mistake and made the specific choice to not. But thanks, I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
I was expecting this video to look at how the DK series is represented as a whole in Smash, so this was a nice surprise. I always thought there was something wrong with the Smash version, but I could just not put my finger on why that was the case. Glad you made this video, you clearly seem to be a professional at this unlike me so that's Kongtastic!
Yeah, there are a lot of ways DK has been done dirty, but I wanted to add something a little different to the conversation. Although I would hardly consider myself "a professional" either, I really appreciate your compliment! So glad you enjoyed it!
Ok I’ve heard you out, and the examples at the very end were very helpful and are appreciated to help make a point. However… Counter Attack in Smash is just bad. I didn’t even know about the electric guitar bit, it just sounds wrong and makes me not want to hear it. Same with Metal Man now that you mention it.
Ok I decided to listen to it again and like. I wanna say “Ok it’s not that bad” and it really isn’t I guess but it’s something about the instrumentation, it feels empty. It’s not the electric guitar playing at a different point, if I can’t articulate anything else I do want to point out that’s not it. It also REALLY doesn’t help that the part that most people think about when it comes to that song doesn’t get to play which is the pitch change and the final notes which I want to fault for the fact that it’s because that’s the nature of a smash remix but plenty of other songs in smash get to play out the ending to a song and find a way to smoothly transition either to the beginning again or a different piece from the same franchise and then loop to beginning of base song.
Yeah, I guess ultimately the point I wanted to make is that the issue Counterattack has (and other tracks like it) is almost entirely one of instrumentation, which is subject to opinion, as opposed to the issue DK has where the melody is just incorrect for no discernible reason.
They're clearly referencing the super smash bros 64 version of the song of course. Which references itself. 👍 In all seriousness, you made your point very well. 😂
Thank you for making this video. I've played smash bros pretty much my whole life so when I actualy played Donkey Kong the real victory theme sounded off in a way I couldn't describe and now I know why.
You have made your point splendidly in this video! I also love it when people just go off about something most ppl find miniscule or didn't even notice! Bravo
Why thank you! I very well COULD have talked about less minuscule things, especially as they relate to DK in Smash, but I figured I'd bring something new to the table. Glad to see it was appreciated!
The worst part is that it's only a tiny amount of pieces. The amount that slipped past Sakurai's ears. Yet it's still JUST as bad as if EVERY REMIX IN SMASH BROS did this. And yet most of the remixes in smash bros are absolute bangers (hold You Will Know Our Names. hold You Will Know Our Names. I hate that remix, the original is so much better ;-;)
The worst part is that this only applies to the songs that slip past Sakurai's ears. Most of the remixes in smash bros are bangers (except You Will Know Our Names, screw that remix original is better) but these TAINT that (mostly) perfect track record with their awfulness
I mean... the only proper remix of "You Will Know Our Names" in Smash is part of a medley, so of course they're going to condense it and not do the full song justice in 30 seconds when they have 3 other songs to mix in. But to my (admittedly uneducated) ears, there's nothing "wrong" with that remix aside from skipping from the intro directly into the "chorus" (for lack of a better term), which is entirely because that track is a medley. And the original version is also in the game, so there's no major loss there. It's not as though that's the only (mis)representation that track is getting. Or maybe I just don't understand Xenoblade people.
I honestly think the addition of >Bites LipCracks Whip< "Is That All?"/"You're Mine" Suit Samus in Smash is the single worst thing to ever happen to Samus as a character. It's a gross misrepresentation of the character that has distorted the general public's perception of her to a degree that Other M could only dream of. And I just thought Pole Dancing Palutena would be funny to also have on screen.
This annoys me too, and with the conscious decision to make the remix less bombastically triumphant and more calmly ambient, this victory theme I hate the most out of any other in smash, thankfully K. Rool doesn't use it
I knew there was something wrong with this theme when you first told me to listen but I couldn't put it to words. Also that Kirby remix activated my fight or flight response.
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ignore the fact that the icies got their win theme slaughtered from melee to brawl to ultimate
THAT KIRBY ONE HURT SO BADLY
Oh my god I never even realized what DK’s victory theme was supposed to be, partly because of the missing notes
Maybe Sakurai wanted the song to be shorter?????
Diddy Kong not having their boombox dance as a victory pose is a crime
Maybe in the next smash game
@@SinisterFears I think it's because Sakurai wants Diddy to dance!!!!
I can't believe I genuinely didn't understand what was wrong until the "I really won the game"
"I really won game"
I came into this expecting a "too many Jungle Hijinx remixes" rant, but I got something much better.
Fun fact, did you know Tropical Freeze has an earlier "Bonus Win" theme that can be heard in a Gamespot preview (the Cannon Canyon coverage)? Even that one gets the notes right, as it should!
Many fan remixes of Yoshi's Island athletic theme completely remove the counter melody.
If I know what a counter melody is correct, various version of Green Hill Zone don't have it, and I prefer it when it's there
When i saw the thumbnail, i thought this was gonna be about Donkey Kong's moveset (4 smash games just for a roll, and he still missing his voice or barrels) or its neglected representation for the most part (it took 3 games since Brawl to finally get a assist trophy and took an entire fighter ballot or two to finally get K. Rool in)
The Victory theme was the last thing i would ever think about, cause its the least of DK's problems
I know those are more pressing issues, but those are also points everyone else has already talked to death about.
I just wanted to bring this to light as yet another way Sakurai and the team continue to do DK dirty for no good reason.
@@brosephlacasquevtuber Maybe Sakurai wanted the song to be shorter?????
This is the musical equivalent to me noticing Talonflame's wing feather closest to its body clips everytime it flaps its wings since XY which they eventually fixed in Scarlet and Violet. But how did the modelers never noticed it until then is beyond me
I will never be able to unhear this.
Fr tho it's odd how they got this wrong, I wonder if when redoing songs for future iterations they don't look at the original version of it but rather at the past smash games iterration, carrying on the same mistake over and over.
I know this is A nitpick. ignoring that DK sounds like A real gorilla in smash bros. It also bothers me that DK looks so mad in A lot of his moves. In his series he's such A goofy guy who's also pretty chill. If anything, he would be A lot more playful about A fight like in Punch out wii.
OK RANT OVER.
He was angry in Mario Strikers.
I love analytical dissections like this, esp all the examples at the end. Keep up the great work! 💖👌
Really thought this was gonna be about his bad moveset or the gorilla noises, which are definitely Donkey Kong problems but was plesantly surprised with the musical topic, as a music fan, but also slightly infuriated I will never be able to unhear this. Great video!
Also similar vibes to the "Sakurai has bias to his more like franchises," this even applies to parts of franchises. Maybe you've heard of it, but the amount of bias towards Sakurai-directed Kirby games, even in Ultimate, is insane. I mean the ultimate spirits are okay, but in terms of stages and such represented, Kirby has very little love for any game past Air Ride, or even the Dark Matter Trilogy, beyond Ultra Sword and Masked Dedede Rush final smashes. Understandable as Kirby is his baby, but still.
Yeah, I know his moveset and voice are technically bigger issues, but because of that, those topics have been talked to death and I wanted to add something new to the conversation.
Also you're welcome for the burden of cursed knowledge!
@@brosephlacasquevtuber I should shake my fist at you lol
@@Keitoded Kirby is a big reason why Smash exists so it makes sense for Sakurai to be bias with earlier Kirby.
"and you are a strawman" Man I am SO GLAD I didn't realize that joke until that line.
I... Using a Straw Man, for a Strawman argument, I love you so much.
Also; just wanna voice, for someone who, and I quote "Doesn't have the musical understanding to properly explain this" you did a really good job on those final themes. They are different, but I think in a good way that changes them into something else, I think one of the down notes at the end of Saria's song could've also gone to turn it into a beautiful lullabye.
People complain about missing Kongs in DK rap... but that remix is so bad that I didn't care, but now you tell me about this and I start thinking: they get wrong in 64, and they use that version to base on because the music is "already done" in the smash archives and never listen the original again to remake it.
DK and Bowser was Sakurai’s excuse to have Godzilla vs King Kong
Change my mind
I only noticed this one very recently, since I only played the original game recently, but the version of "Eternal Bond" in Smash is slightly different to the Radiant Dawn version.
In the original, at the end of the loop, the precussion cuts out entirely for a bried period to out emphasis on the melody, then repeats the melody with precussion to add intensity. In the Smash version the orecussion cuts out only to awkwardly fade in immediately after, at which point the song repeats the same melody twice for no particular reason anymore.
This is in spite of the fact that both are the exact same song otherwise. It's not like it's a rearrangement or anything.
That last bit of the video was an insanely good illustration on the topic
Thank you. My whole goal was to inflict as much psychic damage as possible. It seems it worked, lol.
@brosephlacasquevtuber 100%. You started with kirby and I instantly got a meltdown
What’s even sadder is that this is only one of many things wrong with DK’s music in Smash like seriously, where the hell is the music from both versions of DKC3
I know, right? We get 8 different versions of Jungle Hijijnx, and a half dozen title themes, but no Mine Cart Madness? No Fear Factory? Treetop Rock? Aquatic Ambiance? Forest Interlude? Flight of the Zinger? Mill Fever? Rockface Rumble? Busted Bayou? Anything?
They seriously do DK dirty on a number of levels.
@@brosephlacasquevtuber They know DK's music is Too Good and it would blow the rest of the soundtrack out of the water /j
@@link2125Well All The Nintendo Music is Effectively Awesome
don't forget the lack of lanky, tiny, and chunky verses in smash's DK Rap
@@Toadfish10just smash’s dk rap in general
Smash 64 has a lot of weird quirks.
Like Brinstar for example has no actual references in the stage compared to the game, just the same aesthetics.
I mean, there was Ridley flying in the background...
...of Brinstar...
...when his area has always been Norfair...
Yeah, Smash is weird about which series get preferential treatment.
@@brosephlacasquevtuber Uh, but Brinstar is the Melee one, 64's stage is just called Planet Zebes
@@kirbyofthestarsfan I know that. But I also understood what the initial commenter was talking about and wasn't about to derail the conversation with an "erm... acktually".
Nothing wrong with that, it’s just general Planet Zebes.
New treand got made, png tuber who grow up in the 90s and yap about Nintendo, AND IM LOVIN IT
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who has had this rolling around in my brain for years
My fav example of Sakurai disregarding the DK series for no good reason is when they cut Lanky and Chunky’s verse out of the DK Rap. Now this could make sense since the Wii U was a less powerful console than the Switch so they cut it down like they did other old Smash songs.
So then WHY did they not put them back in Ultimate? You’re telling me in the game with two One Winged Angel versions and 50+ SNK song you couldn’t just use the version with Lanky and Chunky? They just ported it from Smash 4 without a second thought, and those two verses are now lost to time, a shame.
It's funny, I clicked on this video expecting how the Tropical Freeze OST got completely and utterly snubbed in Ultimate (which it unquestionably did), and instead got a rant about a jingle I have barely thought of in years along with some very cursed new jingle remixes.
I'm still upset about the Tropical Freeze thing (seriously, there are so SO many songs that would work extremely well in Smash but just weren't included in favor of... first level theme? Really?), but I guess I have a new thing to be annoyed about.
Right? Why add Busted Bayou or Grassland Groove when they could just add 8 remixes of Jungle Hijinx?
@@brosephlacasquevtuber Big Top Bop, Homecoming Hijinx (aka the MAIN FREAKING THEME), Punch Bowl, Lord Frederick's theme, so many freaking options and they chose... yet another Jungle Hijinx remix. It's actually really frustrating.
I'm also quite sad at the lack of Pokemon Mystery Dungeon representation in the soundtrack, but that would have been a deep cut so I can't be actively frustrated over that.
@@webbowser8834 The good news is that we do have Funky's Fugue, Ice Cave Chant, and Boss 2 - DK: Jungle Climber.
@@orangeslash1667 None of those are from DKC Tropical Freeze though. Don't get me wrong, I like those songs too, but the fact that the most recent (and imo best) soundtrack in the series was just utterly ignored is incredibly frustrating.
Seriously, give Windmill Hills a listen and tell me it doesn't put a smile on your face.
@@webbowser8834 Actually Mangrove Cove from TF did get in.
We need a petition
My man's is on a crash and burn mission with that last part. Great discussion!
Can we talk about how Sora’s victory theme, Hand in Hand, was altered so that it sounds somewhat similar to Wish Upon a Star?
I know I said this on an earlier video of yours but I love videos that rant about the most minor of things for far longer than what is necessary.
Also as a certified Kirby fanboy, the Kirby dance edit at the end of the video made me wince so hard. That was disgusting.
FEEL MY PAIN! MWAHAHAHAHA!!!
I also hate how in Ultimate they cut off the last few staccato 8th notes of Yoshi's victory theme, despite those notes being IN Smash 4's version of his victory fanfare. Like literally all they had to do was keep it the same as it was in Smash 4, like they did with like every other character, but nooooo they removed it for no reason and it bothers the fuck out of me every time I win a match while playing as Yoshi.
Do you have opinions on the DK rap being incomplete in games after Melee?
It's a travesty.
Along with how the Tal Tal Heights remix from Brawl is approximately 5% "Tal Tal Heights" and mostly the Link's Awakening field theme.
We’re hitting levels of autism never thought possible…I LOVE IT!
This was amazing, I didn’t know how you could stretch a 13 min vid from one jingle but I was fully engaged and my jaw dropped from the tropical freeze example, Inlove dk and smash but dangit that character, needs some better representation
Glad you enjoyed! And the bit with Tropical Freeze was actually a mind-blowing revelation to me too! Glad that came across in the video!
Despite it being two notes missing, and despite the fact that I had definitely heard the bonus theme before playing Smash Bros for the first time, I always forget that DK's victory theme in Smash was actually the bonus theme from his games.
It's strange to think about, but the missing notes in combination with the instrumentation being flutes instead of brass always throws me off into thinking "That's an awfully obscure piece of DK music." That's a huge problem that I can't believe got through every single Smash game.
If you did that to Megalovania, removing every third note, you'd recognize it from the instruments. If you play all the notes on piano, you'd recognize it from the melody regardless of tempo. Skip every third note of Megalovania on piano and suddenly it sounds like a cheap knockoff or worse, like a brand new song, unless you have prior knowledge. Someone like me who only played DKCR a few times and DKCTF when the game was on Wii U would probably have similar trouble.
Glad I now know why that victory theme always bugged me so much... Now I'll never un-hear it, so thanks.
The melody may be wrong, but a DK victory puts a smile on my face.
I’ve always had issues with the Smash DK victory theme and never realized this was why until now
What I noticed at the end was that the pieces I wasn't super familiar with sounded fine to me, but the pieces I knew well felt off. Overall, I think you did a good job of illustrating your point.
Also, before I clicked on the vid, I thought this would be about how the DK Rap cut out Lanky and Chunky despite being present in Brawl.
this is by far one of my favorite videos on youtube now. beautifully articulated, buckets of calculated pettiness, an obscene amount of research. what more could you want??
these two damn notes back
Given how the content on TH-cam far exceeds the amount one can watch in a million lifetimes, it is indeed a great honor to be placed so highly.
the zelda one physically hurt
I have to agree
Honestly I think the thing that bothers me the most about Donkey Kong representation in Ultimate is the lack of Spirits for Returns and Tropical Freeze, as there's only three novices and nothing more. It stinks, especially as a wii kid who not only loved Returns, but had it as one of their first ever games.
Yo that Melee version at the end sounds awesome
My wife is a music teacher so I absolutely get and love this analytical and emotional breakdown. Great video.❤
OMG! I've always noticed this, but thought maybe I was going crazy!
Anything dk and smash related I love, this video was no different.
Great vid. Ending had me cracking up.
I was cracking up while making it. Glad to see other people appreciated it too.
@@brosephlacasquevtuber I do music too so those songs sounded just even more wrong to me without some of their defining notes. 😭
Okay you know what I wanna hear more quirks about Smash remixes. Give them to me
OK, here's one. The Zelda series track called "Tal Tal Heights" is actually mostly a remix of the field theme from Link's Awakening with only the intro and ending of the Tal Tal Heights area theme randomly thrown in there.
@@brosephlacasquevtuber I knew that one thanks to the comment sections from those videos. Any other misleading titles or weird songs?
@@pmdmakesmecri2Onett in Brawl has a incorrect song title (the song used is Bein’ Friends, but the title of the song is Onett (tho its kinda justified since mother 1 wasnt released into the us yet so uhm)
I never noticed that with DK's Victory, so I certainly learned something today.
On a somewhat related note, I recall being disappointed upon hearing Gladion's Theme in Ultimate. When I saw it was getting a remix, I imagined something like what GaMetal made. A high-energy theme with guitars rocking out.
Instead, what I got was a low-energy theme that sounded more fitting for an emotional moment with Gladion than a battle.
Additionally, thanks to a friend, I realized Cynthia's theme also sort of lacks that same energy. I just never noticed because I never really listened to the original.
And of course, there's the shortening of the DK Rap, Brinstar (Melee), and Pollyanna. On one hand, I sort of understand why they did so, since they weren't initially sure how much music they could fit into Ultimate. On the other hand. Bayonetta came in with a few of her five-minute long songs (and that's before DLC was a thing) so the gimping of them stands out.
I hope Smash 6 gives Gladion and Cynthia justice, while restoring the proper lengths of DK Rap, Brinstar (Melee), and Pollyanna.
The other detail I've noticed is that by removing the pickup note and raised note, they also removed the descending countermelody. Combined with the more "in time" nature of the smsh version, it ends up making the aforementioned smash versions feel washed out or watered down in compariosn to the original. Combined with DK's lackluster moveset and lack of his iconic vouce, makes this version of Nintendo's great ape feel like a knockoff rather than celebrating the real deal.
It's confirmed that DK was inspired by King Kong, that may have inspired the voice???
Ngl, the second omission from the melee menu screen is fire
given the video's length I expected this to be another "punches and kicks" rant, and needless to say I was surprised
This was a super well-made and funny video, but I'm curious on why you say taking away a few notes is really any different than adding notes. It's still changing the "lyrics" of the song, so you're still not keeping the original intact. So what makes the Tropical Freeze version okay when the Smash Bros. version isn't?
Personally I think both adding and removing notes for a remix is fine so long as it serves the remix in sounding good. I was originally going to comment that I thought Metal Man's theme was a bad example, but after going to listen to it, I have to admit I think the remix is really good in its own way, and they probably just saw fit to mostly remove the counterbeats since it would fit the style of what they were trying to make better.
I guess all I'm trying to say is I don't understand why Tropical Freeze gets a pass if Smash Bros. doesn't. As far as personal preference is concerned though, yeah, I totally understand if you're not a fan of the Smash Bros. one. I don't mind it myself, but again, that's just opinion.
Anyway, even if I'm not sure I agree with it, don't let that take away from that I really did enjoy the video!
I think the bigger difference here is how, because Tropical Freeze doubles down on it, it's still pretty recognizable as a jazzier version. While, with the Smash Bros ones, there's a lot of people in this comment section talking about not even recognizing it as the bonus win theme.
@@fabiosonhandogrande1697 That's crazy, because I've played Tropical Freeze, and honestly I never would have realized that was meant to be a remix of the bonus win theme if not for this video. I think it sounds pretty good, but it being a remix was never obvious to me because it sounds like a completely different song.
@@KyletheReflectionist Same could be said about the Smash ones, but... As the video itself points out, David Wise viewed those key details as important. Even if he didn't think much on them as he did it, that still means it felt obvious to him that they should be emphasized. Focusing on the fun. While the smash versions just went with simplifying what was already simple, and stuck with it for 25 years.
to me it's more annoying that ultimate made a Snakey Chantey remix just to hide a third Gangplank Galleon remix
It could be worse. It could have been a 9th remix of Jungle Hijinx.
Oh God those rearrangements at the end sounded so off lol
This will now bug me every time I play smash (my friend plays dk and washes me every time)
Also, great video
You're welcome.
Could be just an intentional variation on it just to make it a bit more simple
The song was already simple tho
Dang, and my problem with Donkey Kong in smash is that he just doesn't feel like "Donkey Kong" at all.
I never experienced musical edging until the last chapter of your video
I can see why u don't enjoy DK's victory theme in smash, and I do love the original, but I still like the smash versions imo...
The one since Brawl I hate tho cuz of the pitch like c'mon why did they make it to that high!?
Always knew it sound different, couldn't put my fihger on why exactly. My guess is that they skipped what they thought was "redundant" and do a more simple composition and since it's going waay faster is barely noticeable.
I honestly thought it was about DK not having a voice, and they stuck to whatever the heck we have. Not Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, King K. Rool, King Dedede and not even Bowser have the voices we know, just Bowser Jr. JUST HIM ALONE!
Damn... You got some good hearing.
Damn. How did I not notice this before?
PD: I'm dieing from the inside because of that last part. But don't worry I see your point
this is kinda how i feel with some gangplank galleon remixes, they all miss the rising synth at the beginning that makes the song cool
after looking at multiple remixes only one on youtube actually had that but they changed it to an electric guitar to make it even cooler
Man, I thought you were going to be discussing mechanics of the character, not burdening me with Eldritch knowledge that I have to be presently aware of for the remainder of my life.
You're welcome 😈
Does this keep you up at night.
No, but I find it funny to express it as though it does.
Musician here
While it isn't a big deal for non musicians, believe me, there's nothing worse than hearing one song or melody that you love, and hear that "something" is missing
It could be a cover, remix, or a live version, but if something is missing, you notice it
@@peterwaynelegendnot a musician here, just a guy with a musical ear, i completely get how annoying that can be.
Incredibly well put point
In general I'm not a fan of the Smash Bros. victory themes... They're TOO orchestral. And I know that sounds like kind of an odd complaint, but I feel like they just don't... Pop as much? I don't know the right words for it. They don't sound like the snappy victorious feeling you should expect from a victory theme.
You know, I was gonna let you be, but after that ending, I'm not agreeing with you for putting me through that torture.
I actually want to die after hearing the arrangement at the end
I thought this video was going to be about how there's like 50 different Jungle Hijinks remixes.
You’re not overreacting, I didn’t even recognize the theme when you first played it despite also playing DKC in my childhood. I just assumed it was some song from a Donkey Kong game that I hadn’t played.
I've watched this video several times lol. I'm obsessed with it and i don't know why. 😂
I always knew there was something off about the smash version
your avatar is goated
holy shit how did this guy manage to rant for 13 minutes about a 7 second long jingle and still keep it interesting
I have never played DK Country, I grew up with the Smash version. That's why I'm OK with this.
How do you know my music taste
I mean, I don’t hate most of the songs at the end. The only one that rubbed me the wrong way was the Kirby one. Hell, the Zelda theme sounded a little more relaxing. That being said, I don’t really have any strong opinions on music
i thought this was gonna be about donkey kong’s moveset
Man on the topic of weird decisions that only just a few people care about when it comes to the music in Smash... I can't be the only person who's also upset the only Hideki Naganuma song got removed from Smash right? Right There, Ride On was the closest thing we had to a JSR song in the game. And even then Sonic Rush deserves a track in there.
Funny Monke Music
As I will never forgive Sakurai 🍌
Huh, pretty interesting. I'm not much of a DK fan so I never thought anything was wrong.
I'm also not a Zelda fan so I don't know what you did to Zelda's Lullaby.
However I am a Xenoblade fan so I do understand the criticisms of the Smash version of Counterattack not being right so I've gotta get behind your movement to get it rearranged. I just need the original Counterattack to be in the game.
When it comes to the fighter's victory themes, Sonic definitely got it the worst. They didn't even compose his victory theme and just literally took the one from Sonic 06.
This was understandable in Brawl as he was added in last minute but two games later and he still has that same theme?
I was expecting Smash’s rather abysmal DK representation especially in Smash Ultimate, with none of the characters having their VAs (same goes with Bowser especially after Bowser Jr. got in), to the stages just being Jungle and not a single Minecart level…or Frantic Factory…or Krockodile Isle…or freaking Autumn Heights, to the music just being the DK Island Swing taking 1/3 of DK’s music library and no music from Country 3, said music only having one track from DK64 & Tropical Freeze one that’s now a dated terrible remix that’s been getting butchered and one that’s just same theme from Tropical Freeze, to the fact it took 3 games for the series to get an assist trophy, to the complete neglect of the modern Retro Country games getting shafted in Ultimate as well as the very barebones representation of the Rare trilogy with like 3-4 Kremlings getting repped as trophies/spirits that aren’t K. Rool, like it’s been bothering me since Smash Ultimate’s launch and nobody ever talks about it
I'm not sure whether to love or hate how you went out of your way to illustrate the note removal in other series just to make us uncomfortable too LMAO
originally thought it was a silly kinda problem, by like 4 minutes in you convinced me - great video.
maybe for smash 6 they'll fix it?
IDK man, they've let this problem slide for 25 years. They've already had 2 opportunities to fix their mistake and made the specific choice to not.
But thanks, I'm really glad you enjoyed it!
@@brosephlacasquevtuber we just have to raid nintendo next january!
I was expecting this video to look at how the DK series is represented as a whole in Smash, so this was a nice surprise.
I always thought there was something wrong with the Smash version, but I could just not put my finger on why that was the case. Glad you made this video, you clearly seem to be a professional at this unlike me so that's Kongtastic!
Yeah, there are a lot of ways DK has been done dirty, but I wanted to add something a little different to the conversation.
Although I would hardly consider myself "a professional" either, I really appreciate your compliment! So glad you enjoyed it!
Ok I’ve heard you out, and the examples at the very end were very helpful and are appreciated to help make a point. However… Counter Attack in Smash is just bad. I didn’t even know about the electric guitar bit, it just sounds wrong and makes me not want to hear it. Same with Metal Man now that you mention it.
Ok I decided to listen to it again and like. I wanna say “Ok it’s not that bad” and it really isn’t I guess but it’s something about the instrumentation, it feels empty. It’s not the electric guitar playing at a different point, if I can’t articulate anything else I do want to point out that’s not it. It also REALLY doesn’t help that the part that most people think about when it comes to that song doesn’t get to play which is the pitch change and the final notes which I want to fault for the fact that it’s because that’s the nature of a smash remix but plenty of other songs in smash get to play out the ending to a song and find a way to smoothly transition either to the beginning again or a different piece from the same franchise and then loop to beginning of base song.
Yeah, I guess ultimately the point I wanted to make is that the issue Counterattack has (and other tracks like it) is almost entirely one of instrumentation, which is subject to opinion, as opposed to the issue DK has where the melody is just incorrect for no discernible reason.
I thought you were gonna primarily talk bout DKs voice being not DK, but this is wack too
They're clearly referencing the super smash bros 64 version of the song of course. Which references itself. 👍
In all seriousness, you made your point very well. 😂
Thank you for making this video. I've played smash bros pretty much my whole life so when I actualy played Donkey Kong the real victory theme sounded off in a way I couldn't describe and now I know why.
12:40 I could legit see it in a new game
You have made your point splendidly in this video! I also love it when people just go off about something most ppl find miniscule or didn't even notice! Bravo
Why thank you! I very well COULD have talked about less minuscule things, especially as they relate to DK in Smash, but I figured I'd bring something new to the table. Glad to see it was appreciated!
I never noticed this but now that someone has pointed it out I hate it so much, ive been enlightened
Such knowledge is a gift... and a curse...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I CANT UNHEAR IT NOW I HATE IT
What can I say except: "you're welcome"
The worst part is that it's only a tiny amount of pieces. The amount that slipped past Sakurai's ears. Yet it's still JUST as bad as if EVERY REMIX IN SMASH BROS did this. And yet most of the remixes in smash bros are absolute bangers (hold You Will Know Our Names. hold You Will Know Our Names. I hate that remix, the original is so much better ;-;)
The worst part is that this only applies to the songs that slip past Sakurai's ears. Most of the remixes in smash bros are bangers (except You Will Know Our Names, screw that remix original is better) but these TAINT that (mostly) perfect track record with their awfulness
I mean... the only proper remix of "You Will Know Our Names" in Smash is part of a medley, so of course they're going to condense it and not do the full song justice in 30 seconds when they have 3 other songs to mix in.
But to my (admittedly uneducated) ears, there's nothing "wrong" with that remix aside from skipping from the intro directly into the "chorus" (for lack of a better term), which is entirely because that track is a medley. And the original version is also in the game, so there's no major loss there. It's not as though that's the only (mis)representation that track is getting.
Or maybe I just don't understand Xenoblade people.
What's wrong with Zero Suit Samus and Palutena?
I honestly think the addition of >Bites LipCracks Whip< "Is That All?"/"You're Mine" Suit Samus in Smash is the single worst thing to ever happen to Samus as a character. It's a gross misrepresentation of the character that has distorted the general public's perception of her to a degree that Other M could only dream of.
And I just thought Pole Dancing Palutena would be funny to also have on screen.
Nice rant bro! 👍 (Also yeah taking out notes is a nitpick I also have, but I never brought it up, you are incredibly right)
3:45 OKAY BUT THEY FUCKED UP UP COUNTERATTACK AND THE ORIGINAL ISN'T IN THE GAME AND THE REMIX SOUNDS WAY WORSE AND IM STILL A LITTLE MAD ABOUT IT
AND WHILE WE'RE COMPLANING ABOUT SMASH REMIXES THE MOONSIDERS 1ST REMIX IS WORSE TOO AND THE ORIGINAL ISN'T IN THE GAME AND THAT MAKES ME KINDA SAD
Smash does so many weird, unnecessary things.
This annoys me too, and with the conscious decision to make the remix less bombastically triumphant and more calmly ambient, this victory theme I hate the most out of any other in smash, thankfully K. Rool doesn't use it
I knew there was something wrong with this theme when you first told me to listen but I couldn't put it to words. Also that Kirby remix activated my fight or flight response.