@@lexdfox i have a question im looking forward to buy the 36v pro 1000w but im scared that its really small. i want to know is it the same size or is it smaller?
I noticed your motor looks just like mine, I put in 5 pole pairs like you did in your first video and I had problems, but when I changed it to 3 pole pairs it's good now, pole pairs is magnets on the rotor divided by 2
GPT4 Convo: (may help) Controlling a brushless motor at low RPM is generally more difficult due to several factors: 1. **Back EMF**: At lower speeds, the motor generates less back EMF (electromotive force), which is important for the controller to sense the motor's position and maintain smooth operation. Without enough back EMF, the controller has to rely more on sensor data (if sensored) or estimation (if sensorless), which can result in rough or "coggy" motion. 2. **Commutation**: Brushless motors require precise switching (commutation) of phases to keep the motor spinning. At low RPM, the motor’s position changes more slowly, making it harder to achieve smooth transitions between commutation phases. If the controller isn’t tuned well or struggles to predict these transitions accurately, cogging can occur. 3. **Torque Ripple**: At low speeds, torque ripple (variations in torque as the rotor passes by the stator windings) becomes more noticeable because the motor isn't spinning fast enough to smooth out these variations, leading to the cogging feeling. 4. **Controller Limitations**: Some motor controllers, especially if not optimized for low-speed performance, might not handle low RPMs well. The Far Driver controller might not be as fine-tuned for these scenarios, especially if it's sensorless or relying on weak position feedback. This cogging is common, particularly for sensorless motors or if the controller’s software isn't optimized for smooth low-speed control. Sensored motors (using Hall sensors) tend to perform better at low RPMs because they give the controller accurate position feedback, allowing for smoother commutation.
Look at the chain motion when u have the bike on the stand at that rpm area you don’t like, when you have the bike on the stand and hit that rpm u don’t like it looked like the chain was jumping a lot like it may have some odd play causing that weird noise. The side profile picture i could see the chain jumping but maybe that’s not it. Worth a look.
AN for your motor could be up to 4 and does sometimes eliminates judder. You would change the AN setting one number at a time and test up to 4. I'm guessing you got the tune from Ryan who is very knowledgeable
In the rc world it’s called cogging but that only happens really when you are running a sensor less motor which means the esc/controller doesn’t know where the stator is but when its sensored the small board in the motor communicates with the esc to better control everything and all but eliminates the cogging at lower rpm.
I’m more of a rookie to the electric world but I do have experience w gas bikes and usually, these types of vibrations are to do with axles, swing arm and most importantly the position of those two. You may have out of true tires or even the swing arm may be kicked to the left or right a little
I have the same problem here. When I let off the throttle at a high rpm I get a crunchy deceleration for a couple seconds until it settles down at a lower rpm. I hope either one of us solves this issue so we can enjoy our bikes. Let you know if I come up with a solution. Thanks for sharing your experience✨🤙😃☀️🌴🔪🔨
Fyi I tried everything you’ve mentioned to solve the issue as well. My latest attempt was zeroing out all the regen percentages and still no solution✨☀️🌴🔪🔨
@@WheelTok shucks I am waiting for my far driver to come in. We see when I install. Gotta have guys on island whos super knowledgeable to help just gotta find em.
I'm no professional but I would test it on a different motor or a different controller, there might be a defect with the sensor system, if it happens at a specific speed/ frequency it could be noise in the signal, an oscilloscope would probably be the best tool to diagnose my theory
Cogging. There is something not quite correct in your settings. You'll get it eventually. Otherwise this is a bad controller. But I'm not leaning toward that. Try messing with your THROTTLE VOLTAGES. Setting up the bike with a cheap amazon throttle may be your problem. GET A SURRON STYLE FULL TWIST GRIP THROTTLE. They aren't as cheap as the one you got. These cheap throttles are just that, cheapos. I think a decent throttle and correct throttle voltage setup will fix your problem. I run a KR5V with a fardriver nd72450. Been messing with it for quite some time. Throttle voltages make a huge difference, and if yours aren't setup to the throttle you purchased, it can cause problems like this. Cogging can also occur due to the resolution of throttle input. Crappy throttle, crappy motor speed control. Hope this helps.
i got the ND 72260 on my bomber maxed out on 80 a runs good, awesome torqe and so on, but tuning was a struggle... and the stutter in the RPM , got this to on 32 KMH but sometimes it goes away, dunno its nothing wild but as you sad not "perfect"
Wait... you said no slack on the chain? Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know these bikes in specific, but I don't know any bike that doesn't have slack in the chain (about 1 inch of slack in the middle of the chain is usual). If the chain is completely tensed up, when you put load on the bike (our and bike's bodyweight), the chain will tighten even more and the strain put on the motor's bearings is very high, eventually breaking them...
Great video ..i bought Fardriver for my Stealth Bomber cuz I wanted more speed even though she does 50mph and everything runs perfect with the Sabvoton 72150,the FarDriver gave me more speed my motor was making weird sounds that I never heard before I got that problem solved but my Throttle started loosing power from time to time😂...it's a nightmare if you don't know what the heck ur doing...lol...i ended up switching back to my old controller...😂 I have to do more research and get a new Display for the Fardriver I can't used my Sabvoton display...
Thanks! I'm slowly learning more about not just the fardriver but all controller functions, hopefully it'll get me to the cure for my weird rough spot.
i bought a fardriver for my mototec and i bought it because i thought there was somehting wrong with my stock controller because it would cut out and kind of "cog" you could say but no matter how much i tune the fardriver i am still haveinig a problem with the bike cutting out and the volt meter stays on but i have to unplug and plug back in the hall cable wires to the motor and the more torquer i make the back the quicker it cuts out but i havent been able to make it cut out no matter how i tune it so i am afraid it is either the motor or the battery. If anyone would be able to help thank you.
So i have a fardriver on a qs273 sounded crunchy and like bad bearings i knew it was electrical tho as I have a maintenance background turned out it was a bad controller. Before trying a new one i adjusted every setting lol
I see you have an xt60 connector going to the battery. Do you know why they call it an xt60? Because it's good for 60 amps continuous. When you get a bigger controller that eats more power you must size your conductors appropriately. I'm guessing your wire is crazy small too. 100 battery amps is what you have it set for so size up. You can just double up on that smaller wire to try it out. Positive and negative both. Lugs should not be cheap aluminum garbage. Your connection is only as good as your smallest connection point. It's about surface area, electricity does not travel inside the wire, it travels on the outside of it. Flat wide connections are good. Real copper and not that copper clad aluminum bs. You bought a 72300 then run your phases at 300. Turn down the battery amps if you want to slow it down instead of limiting the phase amps. What you are doing is giving power to use and then later on when it's using that power in the phases you are telling it no. That power doesn't just evaporated. Any power you out in the the motor that it cannot use becomes heat. Heat is always bad. Now field weakening, this is on top of what you have allowed for your phases. You use field weakening to increase your overall top speed so if you don't care about that then I would just leave it off. Even with a tiny little Fardriver like that you can melt your motor pretty easily. Fardrivers are very inefficient. There are far better choices if you want to go further and still go fast that have extensive directions written in English that are not expensive either. You can get a 75350 VESC with water cooling on Amazon for like $225. If you don't like it in the bike then you can make yourself a powered surfboard out of it since the controller is completely potted. Directions in English. Half these guys making videos on tuning Fardrivers don't know what they are talking . They literally just got it that day and how they are telling other people how to set it up. Does that sound like a good idea to you? In fact a lot of them first thing the say turn off the temperature sensor. You know the one thing that helps you not mekt your motor instead of actually determining which sensor you have. Don't know which sensor you have , well I think it will be the one that says the correct temperature it currently where you are. Make sense? Common sense isn't all that common. Who knew? Oh wait I've owned a computer repair company' for 25 years so that is definitely me. I have a job where the customer is always wrong. Where's the "any" key? Size up your wires, raise phase current, and check your throttle voltages. You want the low number a little higher than actual. Like if it's .87 make it .9 or 1. AT the high end you can just make it whatever it actually is or lower if you want it to be more sensitive or you basically want to twist less distance. You did a great job depending those connectors etc but don't get too hung up on the waterproof connectors. Most of the wires can be small but your phases and you power need to reflect the amount of power you are applying. Check out a wire ampacity chart . Continuous is what you need to focus on. Keep in mind that these Chinese controllers pull numbers out of their ass as far as capabilities etc. I see you have a voltmeter, this is absolutely a must have. Knowing how much your battery sags when it's healthy gives you a baseline and makes it easier to detect issues early on rather than after something has gone horribly awry. That meter is how you gauge the health of basically everything. I also recommend having an ammeter on your main battery line so you can see how much power you are actually using. These apps are always all over the place. The same company makes most of these higher up controllers. Fardriver, Sabvoton, Votol, Kelly, are all QSmotor/ Siaecosys. All have terrible documentation and if you kill one you are probably just going to buy from one of their other brands they operate under. This is your gateway controller. You will have many more, it's inevitable. Just go with it. Heh heh.
U seem to know alot.. perhaps u could give me an idea how to set mine.. I have the 72260 and a 72v 50ah battery .. iv had it up to 93 kmph but reset it since and not sure what I'm doing lol
Could your chain be too tight? There should definedly be some slack when you are not on the bike. When the rear suspension compresses the chain gets thighter. Too tight chain also wears the motor bearings.
True! The guy who helped me tune it noted that as well. Didn't include it in the video for time but yes it was a bit tight so I added some slack after filming that part.
Motors mounted to swingarm. This effect doesn’t exist in this situation. When the motor is mounted in the frame and the sprocket at the rear swingarm this would allow a change in chain tension.
love your content dude keep up the good work!
Thanks! I'm looking forward to what I have ahead!
@@lexdfox i have a question im looking forward to buy the 36v pro 1000w but im scared that its really small. i want to know is it the same size or is it smaller?
@@try.y1g1t46 it's definitely smaller
@@lexdfox alot or not that much smaller
I noticed your motor looks just like mine, I put in 5 pole pairs like you did in your first video and I had problems, but when I changed it to 3 pole pairs it's good now, pole pairs is magnets on the rotor divided by 2
GPT4 Convo: (may help)
Controlling a brushless motor at low RPM is generally more difficult due to several factors:
1. **Back EMF**: At lower speeds, the motor generates less back EMF (electromotive force), which is important for the controller to sense the motor's position and maintain smooth operation. Without enough back EMF, the controller has to rely more on sensor data (if sensored) or estimation (if sensorless), which can result in rough or "coggy" motion.
2. **Commutation**: Brushless motors require precise switching (commutation) of phases to keep the motor spinning. At low RPM, the motor’s position changes more slowly, making it harder to achieve smooth transitions between commutation phases. If the controller isn’t tuned well or struggles to predict these transitions accurately, cogging can occur.
3. **Torque Ripple**: At low speeds, torque ripple (variations in torque as the rotor passes by the stator windings) becomes more noticeable because the motor isn't spinning fast enough to smooth out these variations, leading to the cogging feeling.
4. **Controller Limitations**: Some motor controllers, especially if not optimized for low-speed performance, might not handle low RPMs well. The Far Driver controller might not be as fine-tuned for these scenarios, especially if it's sensorless or relying on weak position feedback.
This cogging is common, particularly for sensorless motors or if the controller’s software isn't optimized for smooth low-speed control. Sensored motors (using Hall sensors) tend to perform better at low RPMs because they give the controller accurate position feedback, allowing for smoother commutation.
I appreciate this info even if Lexdfox don't show his appreciation😀😀👍👍
Look at the chain motion when u have the bike on the stand at that rpm area you don’t like, when you have the bike on the stand and hit that rpm u don’t like it looked like the chain was jumping a lot like it may have some odd play causing that weird noise. The side profile picture i could see the chain jumping but maybe that’s not it. Worth a look.
AN for your motor could be up to 4 and does sometimes eliminates judder. You would change the AN setting one number at a time and test up to 4. I'm guessing you got the tune from Ryan who is very knowledgeable
In the rc world it’s called cogging but that only happens really when you are running a sensor less motor which means the esc/controller doesn’t know where the stator is but when its sensored the small board in the motor communicates with the esc to better control everything and all but eliminates the cogging at lower rpm.
I’m more of a rookie to the electric world but I do have experience w gas bikes and usually, these types of vibrations are to do with axles, swing arm and most importantly the position of those two. You may have out of true tires or even the swing arm may be kicked to the left or right a little
Just found your channel and currently awaiting my 2000 W 60V MotoTec to arrive! Cant wait!!
Same!
I have the same problem here. When I let off the throttle at a high rpm I get a crunchy deceleration for a couple seconds until it settles down at a lower rpm. I hope either one of us solves this issue so we can enjoy our bikes. Let you know if I come up with a solution. Thanks for sharing your experience✨🤙😃☀️🌴🔪🔨
Fyi I tried everything you’ve mentioned to solve the issue as well. My latest attempt was zeroing out all the regen percentages and still no solution✨☀️🌴🔪🔨
@@WheelTok shucks I am waiting for my far driver to come in. We see when I install. Gotta have guys on island whos super knowledgeable to help just gotta find em.
I can fix that or at least reduce it a ton. Simply say Ryan Goodyear is a scamming clown and I’ll tell you what to change
@@billkraus7688who’s Ryan Goodyear?…
I'm no professional but I would test it on a different motor or a different controller, there might be a defect with the sensor system, if it happens at a specific speed/ frequency it could be noise in the signal, an oscilloscope would probably be the best tool to diagnose my theory
Cogging. There is something not quite correct in your settings. You'll get it eventually. Otherwise this is a bad controller. But I'm not leaning toward that. Try messing with your THROTTLE VOLTAGES. Setting up the bike with a cheap amazon throttle may be your problem. GET A SURRON STYLE FULL TWIST GRIP THROTTLE. They aren't as cheap as the one you got. These cheap throttles are just that, cheapos. I think a decent throttle and correct throttle voltage setup will fix your problem. I run a KR5V with a fardriver nd72450. Been messing with it for quite some time. Throttle voltages make a huge difference, and if yours aren't setup to the throttle you purchased, it can cause problems like this. Cogging can also occur due to the resolution of throttle input. Crappy throttle, crappy motor speed control. Hope this helps.
Hope you will find a solution! Great videos :)
i got the ND 72260 on my bomber maxed out on 80 a runs good, awesome torqe and so on, but tuning was a struggle... and the stutter in the RPM , got this to on 32 KMH but sometimes it goes away, dunno its nothing wild but as you sad not "perfect"
Wait... you said no slack on the chain? Correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't know these bikes in specific, but I don't know any bike that doesn't have slack in the chain (about 1 inch of slack in the middle of the chain is usual).
If the chain is completely tensed up, when you put load on the bike (our and bike's bodyweight), the chain will tighten even more and the strain put on the motor's bearings is very high, eventually breaking them...
Chain tension? Try to look at your chain while you sit on the bike. And see if it might hit.
Great video ..i bought Fardriver for my Stealth Bomber cuz I wanted more speed even though she does 50mph and everything runs perfect with the Sabvoton 72150,the FarDriver gave me more speed my motor was making weird sounds that I never heard before I got that problem solved but my Throttle started loosing power from time to time😂...it's a nightmare if you don't know what the heck ur doing...lol...i ended up switching back to my old controller...😂 I have to do more research and get a new Display for the Fardriver I can't used my Sabvoton display...
Thanks! I'm slowly learning more about not just the fardriver but all controller functions, hopefully it'll get me to the cure for my weird rough spot.
I just ran a controller from 48v to 72v which is 50A continuous and peaks at 72v on my mototec
Peaks at 80a lol its fast with a 58v battery wait till I put a 72 on it 🤣😂
i bought a fardriver for my mototec and i bought it because i thought there was somehting wrong with my stock controller because it would cut out and kind of "cog" you could say but no matter how much i tune the fardriver i am still haveinig a problem with the bike cutting out and the volt meter stays on but i have to unplug and plug back in the hall cable wires to the motor and the more torquer i make the back the quicker it cuts out but i havent been able to make it cut out no matter how i tune it so i am afraid it is either the motor or the battery. If anyone would be able to help thank you.
So i have a fardriver on a qs273 sounded crunchy and like bad bearings i knew it was electrical tho as I have a maintenance background turned out it was a bad controller. Before trying a new one i adjusted every setting lol
Did you try another model of throttle ?
I haven't yet, I think I'm going to try the stock throttle first.
I see you have an xt60 connector going to the battery. Do you know why they call it an xt60? Because it's good for 60 amps continuous. When you get a bigger controller that eats more power you must size your conductors appropriately. I'm guessing your wire is crazy small too. 100 battery amps is what you have it set for so size up. You can just double up on that smaller wire to try it out. Positive and negative both. Lugs should not be cheap aluminum garbage. Your connection is only as good as your smallest connection point. It's about surface area, electricity does not travel inside the wire, it travels on the outside of it. Flat wide connections are good. Real copper and not that copper clad aluminum bs.
You bought a 72300 then run your phases at 300. Turn down the battery amps if you want to slow it down instead of limiting the phase amps. What you are doing is giving power to use and then later on when it's using that power in the phases you are telling it no. That power doesn't just evaporated. Any power you out in the the motor that it cannot use becomes heat. Heat is always bad.
Now field weakening, this is on top of what you have allowed for your phases. You use field weakening to increase your overall top speed so if you don't care about that then I would just leave it off. Even with a tiny little Fardriver like that you can melt your motor pretty easily. Fardrivers are very inefficient. There are far better choices if you want to go further and still go fast that have extensive directions written in English that are not expensive either. You can get a 75350 VESC with water cooling on Amazon for like $225. If you don't like it in the bike then you can make yourself a powered surfboard out of it since the controller is completely potted.
Directions in English. Half these guys making videos on tuning Fardrivers don't know what they are talking . They literally just got it that day and how they are telling other people how to set it up. Does that sound like a good idea to you? In fact a lot of them first thing the say turn off the temperature sensor. You know the one thing that helps you not mekt your motor instead of actually determining which sensor you have. Don't know which sensor you have , well I think it will be the one that says the correct temperature it currently where you are. Make sense?
Common sense isn't all that common. Who knew? Oh wait I've owned a computer repair company' for 25 years so that is definitely me. I have a job where the customer is always wrong.
Where's the "any" key?
Size up your wires, raise phase current, and check your throttle voltages. You want the low number a little higher than actual. Like if it's .87 make it .9 or 1. AT the high end you can just make it whatever it actually is or lower if you want it to be more sensitive or you basically want to twist less distance.
You did a great job depending those connectors etc but don't get too hung up on the waterproof connectors. Most of the wires can be small but your phases and you power need to reflect the amount of power you are applying.
Check out a wire ampacity chart . Continuous is what you need to focus on.
Keep in mind that these Chinese controllers pull numbers out of their ass as far as capabilities etc. I see you have a voltmeter, this is absolutely a must have. Knowing how much your battery sags when it's healthy gives you a baseline and makes it easier to detect issues early on rather than after something has gone horribly awry. That meter is how you gauge the health of basically everything. I also recommend having an ammeter on your main battery line so you can see how much power you are actually using. These apps are always all over the place. The same company makes most of these higher up controllers. Fardriver, Sabvoton, Votol, Kelly, are all QSmotor/ Siaecosys. All have terrible documentation and if you kill one you are probably just going to buy from one of their other brands they operate under.
This is your gateway controller. You will have many more, it's inevitable. Just go with it. Heh heh.
U seem to know alot.. perhaps u could give me an idea how to set mine.. I have the 72260 and a 72v 50ah battery .. iv had it up to 93 kmph but reset it since and not sure what I'm doing lol
Update us on this!!
Next video! Coming out in a week.
Could your chain be too tight? There should definedly be some slack when you are not on the bike. When the rear suspension compresses the chain gets thighter. Too tight chain also wears the motor bearings.
True! The guy who helped me tune it noted that as well. Didn't include it in the video for time but yes it was a bit tight so I added some slack after filming that part.
Motors mounted to swingarm. This effect doesn’t exist in this situation. When the motor is mounted in the frame and the sprocket at the rear swingarm this would allow a change in chain tension.
Have you tried a different throttle? There might be a dead spot in it or something. Try a higher quality one.
I do still have the stock throttle that I know worked, this will definitely be worth checking out, thanks!
Did you try changing feild weaking, or change you max line amp input from the battery up or down?
Have not touched field weakening, still learning that process, so definitely something to look at!
Go up on your phrase offset in smaller increments like 1s.
8:03
Same issue but on a FD72300 and my1020 motor. Still no solution?
Update video coming out this Wednesday!
Lmao is impossible the title says its easy as fuck 😂
let me know what I'm doing wrong then, share the wealth!
@@lexdfox how do i talk to ya i can share settings and help u tune bro
@@ZOMBuckaCurt DM me on Instagram, same name
@@lexdfox gotchu buddy
Can the community have those settings shared please?
Do auto learn with out removing the chain
That's was the first thing I did, in the previous video.
Looks like the motor was shaking
At what time stamp? I'll look into it.
these controllers seem like way to much work
Is this bike worth it