Square Chain Grinding Tutorial
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ส.ค. 2024
- This is a Simington451.
The chain is Oregon 75CJ.
Any .375" or 3/8", .325" or. 404" pitch chisel cutter chain can be used but angles will be different depending on size and brand.
The stone is a Madsens Blue Alumina oxide or 'ceramic' stone.
Yes, we are well aware of the subpar camera work/angles. This will get better with time! We appreciate the patience and any questions you've got.
Thank you
If you have any questions, require different camera angles or need further instruction, PLEASE do not hesitate to ask. I am more than willing to create more videos with comprehensive instructions on how to use this piece of equipment, or can turn this tutorial into a series.
Yes please I plan on getting one of them grinders I round file now but I'd like to switch over to square grind chain
Yes please do so. I’m in the same boat as loggeraaron1990.
Also thank you both for everything you are doing together.
I like the video Phil! I tried to replicate your adjustments on the grinder, but I cut into the tie straps with the tooth more forward on the disk. I have to raise the arm and get the tooth on top of the disk to not cut the tie straps. That works, but I’m thinking that’s going to give me a more aggressive/less durable top plate than I want. Any ideas?
Phil big thanks to you and your wife for putting this video together. I just picked up a Silvey Razur Sharp and I watched your video several times to make sure I’m setting it up correctly.
I really appreciate these types of videos maybe in the future you could make some videos on round filing and hand square filing
We do have one on hand square filing. Round filing I will do soon.
And also with that razr sharp, there are a few quirks. Wrap some wire around the handle on each side and hang a 5 pound weight off of it while you're grinding the side you're on.
When you switch sides, switch the Weight. It keeps the old loose chatters shaft from giving you odd ground cutters. More uniformity.
Thank You For Your Effort And Time Putting This Together. Really Appreciate It. 💪🏽🌲🤠
Hey thank you for tuning in man! Appreciate it 👍🏼
Brilliant videos 👍🏴
The best wheel dressing stone is called a Norbide stick. The are 1/4" think, 1/2" wide, about 3 inches long. Used by tool and die makers for form dressing surface grinder wheels. Available from McMaster Carr, MSC, or other companies that sell grinding wheels and equipment. Cool thing is your great great grandchildren won't have to buy one, cause it's going to last multiple life times. Real must have for guys trying to sharpen 3/4 pitch chain on the 610 grinder.
Phil, it's not brass used for the diamond, it's silver solder, which is what is employed for bonding dissimilar materials such as diamond or carbide to steel, super conductors to copper, etc.
I just got a simington this vid helps a lot
get some top handle chain square ground... You'll Love It!
@@craigprice425 hell ya
Glad to hear it 👍🏼
Saw you in the Treeson video, was hoping you'd get on TH-cam and now voila, this popped up in recommended 😁
Don't worry about camerawork and editing, that's overgearing in itself compared to how TH-cam used to be like, just people helping each other out.
Stoked to see you on here spreading awareness about overgearing, you see it in every gear-head niche on TH-cam where sponsored channels has the majority of viewers.
Nice street-spec drift cars getting bought up by everyone and completely ruined with tubular front & rear ends, CNC'ed parts and 1000hp engines for more than an actual homestead/small ranch just to do 2-3 amateur grassroots track events a year just because a couple sponsored channels throw the whole aftermarket catalogue on a few cars.
The air rifle community too, I see people commenting on videos they can't wait till they get their .30cal benchrest rigs and high quality sniping optics with christmas tree hashmarks good for 2 mile shots because they need to whack 2-3 squirrels at 20 yards on their backyard, that stuff costs 6-7 grand easily...
It's fast becoming a thing with chainsaws too, you don't need a 500i racesaws with bark box and a 36" bar to fell a single 10" rotten poplar on your lawn when that's all the sawing you'll ever do in your entire life.
As for chisel chains they're a well kept open secret, I've been a find'erout'er all my life and I didn't know chisel chains existed before I saw that video 2-3 years back.
Like you I'm a sucker for tinkering/optimizing/consistency/fabrication, so had look up the chisel grinders and you're right, the Simington's are 1600 bucks now, that's a bit steep considering the poor quality metal they're made out of (I've read lots of stories of Simington's falling over and smashing into pieces).
I tried a lot of stuff with a cheap round grinder and only ended up hogging material out of the cutters for no good reason on angles a round grind isn't meant for. So I took one out of your book, dressed the stone with diamond files to give a flat sidecutter and been using that for about 2 years. I get less chatter, kicks less and gives me more control in the cut, it's a sort of 50/50 chisel/round hybrid.
Before getting the grinder I was using an old Granberg file jig I inherited from the old man, it has limitless adjustment I think I can make that Granberg work with triangular file and maintain close to factory angles at least for a while before I lose patience and make my own grinder.
Diamond files are a great hack btw, they're cheap and give a very nice smooth surface finish on the stone. With dressers you can tear chunks off sometimes.
With a steady hand the diamond files can make any grinder do chisel grind, all you need to do is make/modify the jig so it points the surface of the inside of the sideplate more alongside the cutting edge of the stone like on the Simington, so I'm sure I can work something out with a bit of fiddling.
Dude thanks for a great informative comment. I'll reply to you later
... from that treeson video ..have bought a 451C ...its been a journey but every time l make a God chain and its getting more often now, that chain is like a light sabre .. .owe you a few beers if you're ever down in Wanaka New Zealand. Cheers Mike.
@stihlnz thanks Mike. You don't owe me nothing. I didn't invent mist of this stuff, some old timers taught it to me for free just like I'm trying to do.
@@timberfallingcouple There is still a debt owed ...you showed Jacob and took us along for the ride ... I chop firewood for little old ladies ...pass on the good karma that you mentored
Great video, Appreciate the knowledge and advice!
When talking about experience you’re so right. I call it “getting hung up in the numbers”
no doubt! hung up on the numbers and infatuated by Gear
thank you this video will help me keep up the great work
Glad to hear it! Thanks for watching 👍🏼
You’re my very all over favorite person, I look up to! Thanks for every knowledge you’ve been sharing!!!
My grinder fell over 5 years ago and I broke off the dresser on the side cutter a gentleman welded it back on but I have fought it ever since trying to find that sweet spot this is my 18 year cutting timber I can't stop messing with my angles thx for the post your only good as your last tree stay safe
Thank you, that was a much appreciated video.
Pretty darn good is right excellent job!
Thanks for posting this. There's longer and certainly less useful videos out there on the subject..
I've only had my simington a couple years, but I'm determined to master it! Coming off an Oregon 620, it can be intimidating.
aint nothing to it once you figure out what each decision does to your chain. i might do some drawings and try again because the camera angles sre so tough.
I'd be wearing glasses when dressing and looking so close.
But I have only 1 eye due to a similar sort of up close looking thing mishap 40 yrs ago, so I'm careful
It’s always interesting, I can make a chain last 1.5 days or 1.5 trees haha. Usually if I dull or rock my chain it’s bucking.
Wait a minute!? You are the same guy from the guilty of treeson grinding 101 video at gordys shop?!!
Haha I was once.
Phil, I have a question about using the dressing stone on a brand new disc. Are you basically holding the stone at an angle (40-45 degrees or so) and trying to get a bevel on the edge of the stone instead of the square/ flat edge it has when new? I Assume your hogging off more material that way to save your diamond dressers?
Phil, Thank you again. For square grinding on a Simington there is precious little information out there, and most of it is cryptic. Half of the usable information on TH-cam are from your own videos about using the Simington.
Question: That chain looked fairly clean, but as you noted the chain had some pitch residue on the top cutters. Do you recommend cleaning chains and getting the oil and wood residue off before grinding, to keep the wheel clean, reduce friction heat, and eliminate micro-combustion heat?
When the pitch on the top cutter burns away during grinding, it makes me feel like that combustion along the top cutter is adding or sustaining heat buildup in the tooth that contributes to the metal overheating during grinding.
Thanks again. Bill Bezzant
It really isn't adding a significant amount of anything to it when that pitch gets hot and peels back, but the dirt and grease is a contributor. Most guys I know who have a good habit of boring into something right before they change a chain. Some cedar or hardwood is good for cleaning cutters because it isn't very pitchy.
But I do not clean mine with anything and it also seems to do just fine. When there's a ton of oil like a chain that sat for a while while the saw burped oil on it, it can cause the stone to dirty really bad.
Bottom line is, if you have the time and the means, I'm sure cleaner chains grind better and preserve stones for longer, but it isn't worth the time or the solvents for me and I still get good results.
Not trying to discourage you from being more cleanly, just trying to pinch you a penny, it may not be entirely necessary
Does leaving metal in the gullet make a difference? Seems to be making a flat "table" in the gullet at the bottom of the side plate and I know some are all about clearing out the gulllet for chip flow.
Phil, been watching you for a while. It appears with your long bar you run skip chain? Running a 09 ms660, 24 in bar with WCS😊, dogs,muffler . Wanting to switch to a 32 or 36 in bar. Had back surgery when in the military. I’m 70, and like the idea of not bending over. I’m 6’1”. Any thoughts on either bar? Ronnie East, Tennessee
Hey Ronnie.
I think 32" is a much easier to use option for a start and will make you much more happy than the 24". But if you're careful a 36" is a really good tool too, just more prone to chain throwing, and chatter in bore cuts etc.
I run skip chain, yes, but ai think semi skip or full complement is a much smoother cutting and safer chain to use because of its smoothness, and I think either of the above will make your 32 inch bar much easier to use.
Best of luck, thanks for serving and sacrificing
-Phil
Thank you Phil! I thought you might not ever get my message. I feel you’re a hard worker, honest, and love the content. Thank you again for your input! Will do on the 32”. Stay safe. Ronnie
When discussing bar length I find that people only think about it in relation to what size trees they are cutting. But it also depends on your own body mechanics and how you are limbing trees. For instance, I started with a 32 inch bar but I found a 36 inch bar was so much easier for me to work with, because it changed my back position when walking down a tree with caulk boots and limbing like you do on the West Coast. Here, you walk down the tree rather than beside it like I see many people out east when they are on flat ground. I am only 5’10” tall, but I have the legs of someone 6’1” tall and the short arms of Rocky Marciano. I was just talking to someone the other day about bar length and they were the same height as me, but when we stood shoulder to shoulder and extended our hands down, his fingers were 5 inches closer to the ground than mine. so where he might be fine walking down a log with a 32 inch bar, it would kill my back.
I am surprised there isn't a chinese copy of that grinder already.
Hey Farmertec get busy! It'll be great, at least the motor and frame part. The rest will require regular trips to the hardware store to keep it together lol, But for $199.00 you won't complain. In all seriousness it would be nice to have a mid price option, the only other thing I've found is the SquareJig, for some reason I'm not drawn to it, maybe I just need to see more folks using it. After I recover from tax season and our property insurance payment, I'll be giving Madsens a jingle. Life's too short for dull chain :)
maybe this is a chinese copy of this grinder. 🤔 after all the talk abiut my old 660 fake labels fake part numbers fake stihl logos fake grinder fake reality hahahaha. honestly i dont think the square grinder market is big enough for them to otherwise they would. the zinc and aluminum casting market changed a lot when 3d printing and cad scanning became a thing
@@timberfallingcouple that is true. No question it likely stays small because of the cost of entry into the club. The difficulty of hand sharpening for square probably repells people further. I just got some hand files. The triangle abd double bevel. I'm going to give it a try. I've got some spare chain and it won't make or break me to try. I'm interested in how it does. Looks like on our softwoods it is definitely better. But eager to try it oak and hickory. The geometry looks like a better cutter than round. But especially for felling. You simply can't be as precise on an undercut with round file as I've seen from loggers running square file chain. Just more work with round in that scenario. Humboldt notch are tough with round. Traditional East Coast notches are not a problem but you end up taking diameter out of your butt log. Not a problem necessarily if you cut low and the tree has wide spurs. But most of the terrain I cut on is straight up and down similar to yours. I cant usually make those super low cuts. At least not safely. So i need to branch into square file i think. My last red oak stump was probably 4ft off the ground. Its just the way it had to be cut. And is just more typical for my terrain.
Im not entirely sure, as i do think Round filing ends you with a sharper, if not maybe quite as durable edge because it is essentially a "hollow ground" cutter.
but as for being able to carve an edge off of something, the square corner is the only way to go. but it might feel like it doesnt cut as fast or as smooth in tough hardwoods. just a theory though. ill do a square grinding tutorial today and put it up.
@timberfallingcouple round seems like it puts up with dirty shit longer than square, but it sure as hell won't shave out a doitchman or give you that oh shit whack on the throttle when somethin needs cut off right fuckin now or I'll need some shit in plaster on the way home this afternoon..........vinnys, alders, anything that could rearrange the ol snot box
Can you make it grand 3/4 chain
I don't think they even make a chisel tooth ¾ inch chain.. but it will grind .404
Hi Phil😎🌲
What bar Oil do you use on your saws?
whatever is the cheapest i can get my hands on in bulk for consumables. that goes for fuel, mix, and bar oil. mix I run the 5 gallon buckets of Husqvarna, bar oil, whatever i can get my hands on, and fuel plain old low octane ethanol blend.
@@timberfallingcouple okey thanks for reply Phil. Thats a big help people runs all kinds of fancy sh** so cool you run what works👍🏻😎 nothing fancy🤟🏻