Drinker's Chasers - Helena Shaw Is The Worst Thing In Indiana Jones
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 มิ.ย. 2023
- Helena Shaw, played by Phoebe Waller-Bridge, is a terribly written character that seems to have been universally rejected. Join us as we explore how they could have done better.
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Having children, grandchildren and a loving relationship with them is a completely foreign concept to Hollywood writers.
Mutt died though he took his little flag to Vietnam and the Vietnamese found him in like 2 hours.
That’s because narcissism.
They aborted their children/ grandchildren
@@LoneSilverW0lfthat's because they're a death cult.
No it's not, it's just Hollywood doesn't want white Americans whom are the majority consumers of these movies to have families.. remind me who runs Hollywood again?
It's actually pathetic that Phoebe Waller-Bridge was actually involved in the writing, no wonder Kathleen Kennedy hired her; they're both defending this character as if she's God's gift to movies.
I thought she was an horrendous casting choice, I didn't know she had a hand in writing it too. Jesus.
if this was anime, the old indiana jones will be shirtless badass with sixpack and will die sacrifice his life to save the next indiana jones
To be fair, Isn't that what Tom Cruise does all the time?
TRUTH
"Resourceful, daring, beautiful, self-sufficient"
I'm certain she wrote that herself. Nope, you are NOT beautiful.
Show don't tell. You say you are beautiful, but My eyes say otherwise.
You look like "Oscar Wilde".
Helena was a pain in the ass and literally looked like she belonged in a completely different movie. She runs like she's trying to get to Starbucks before they close.
She is the demands to see the manager type
@@joec8321 Totally. I took her as seriously as someone at the checkout at Whole Foods who was mad because she was assured that her coupon would still be honored even though it's expired.
Maybe if Hailey Attwell or someone with real charisma and who looks like they can handle themselves played Helena, she could have been at least fun. "Fleabag" is as charismatic as a box of Q-Tios.
Brilliant! Love it.
She runs like a giraffe on rollerskates 🤣
And she isn’t the first Indy sidekick who isn’t good on a fight. Yeah she can handle herself but she isn’t strong, Indy is clearly stronger and smarter than her. He is the one who fights, the gun gets passed to him and not her.
We can certainly see KK's personality in the Helena character. She's so stunning and brave. Also selfish. egotistical, mean spirited and dreary. Congratulations Kathleen, you finally got into a lucasfilm.
Except she's not stunning or brave.
Stunningly terrible!
@@matthewronson5218 What do you mean she's not stunning? I'm stunned every time her mouth opens and the dumbest thing I've heard in my life comes out.
And brave? Brave to completely spurn and defy the people who make you money? I mean not all bravery is necessarily smart bravery. A person who squaredances on an active highway is certainly "brave" but not someone particularly concerned with seeing tomorrow.
You need help
Her name immediately conjures "HESTER SHAW!!!" from the terrible Mortal Engines movie but Phoebe was good def. beat the shit out of Shia Le bouff
When drinker describes a female character as "maybe a nerdy girl with a sense of adventure that rises to the occasion (paraphrasing)" is literally Rachel Weiss' character from The Mummy
She killed in that role.
She was also FEMININE. That’s what’s missing. These women are never feminine/warm/attractive anymore at all. They’re basically just short haired dudes
@@GalaxyOfBoltz "They're basically just short hair dudes" BUT BETTER
Rachel Weiss' character from The Mummy was an absolute gem.
Also, Rachel Weiss can act.
Without great adversity to overcome, there’s no heroism. It’s just a story of a person with meaningless actions. Note to writers: it’s great adversity that makes a hero, not diversity.
@@mikestand8067 When these guys watch something they only see what they want to see.
Yeah her flaw is that she's extremely unlikable, did you watch the movie op
@@mikestand8067 No need to seriously question my film comprehension, we don't know each other, calm down. She never overcame her unlikeability (unlikeableness? None of these are words 😅) and Indie told her she didn't really believe that life was only about money, it was quite weird to have a character tell another that they didn't have the flaw they were supposed to have lol
@@mikestand8067 Do you see that as a character problem, or no? I'm glad you agree it's poor writing, but I see that as poor character writing, specifically
I loved it. I think the fans early outraged caused them to make necessary changes and saved the film. We shouldn't have had to do that, but that's another story. The film was good and that's what matters.
My Dad was 42 when I was born. He was badass every second that I knew him-always funny, always tough, played with us every day when we were annoying kids, worked in the yard and on the cars harder and longer than me or my brother could ever do. And even after burying my brother (who died at 39), my Dad never stopped laughing, fishing, arguing, joking, or finding joy and adventure in every day of his life. Women went nuts over him everywhere he went and he always actively helped people every way he could (giving them money, advice, and cheering them up). Last time I saw him alive he was 79, giving me a thumbs up on his front porch as I drove away. He took me to see Raiders in 1981 and, I shit you not, he had a one inch scar on the top of his chin. My Mom always said, “Just like Han Solo!”
What a great comment. That's exactly how I want my son to see me when he grows up
I don't think Indy came across as pathetic as the hype suggests. He's bummed because his wife left but his wife didn't leave him specifically but rather she wanted to be alone with her grief over the loss of her son who died in Vietnam. These were basically just writing shortcuts to explain why Marion isn't in the movie for long and Mutt isn't in the movie at all.
That's a more satisfying story than this latest film travesty
@@Maesterful thank you! I just keep thinking, like, OK, so they want me to believe that a FICTIONAL SEMI-SUPERHERO MOVIE CHARACTER doesn’t have his shit together as much as my actual living Dad? I don’t buy it. I reject it. My pop was awesome, but he wasn’t a FICTIONAL ACTION MOVIE HERO
@@mmmbbop9351 Right on, me too with my kid. Thank you
To be fair the "old retired guy" being called back to action isn't a new idea and it does work. Like in the original Star Wars trilogy with Obi-Won having to come back out of hiding to help Luke. But when you bring the old guy back just to humiliate / cast an unearned light on the protagonist (like in the new trilogy) it does crash and burn. Its almost like kicking someone when their already down.
Exactly. They did it with James Bond too
Indiana Jones already had the perfect female lead in Marion Ravenwood. Her intro in Raiders (outdrinking the big dude in Nepal) was iconic.
Ironically, by boozing and throwing fists in the first few minutes, Marion demonstrated she was NOT relationship material right off the bat (another reason I don’t consider KotCS to be canon).
@@theguybehindyou4762What are you talking about? She was hurt from Indiana having left her. Also, people change drastically over a period of decades.
@@theguybehindyou4762 Do you really think people who aren´t relationship material in their twenties can´t become relationship material when they are older???
@@Mouse_Metal suppose that entirely depends on why they're single in the first place.
Someone throws fists at me the first time they run into me after a while, I won’t even consider them a partner, much less a lover.
The last line was the most poignant. "Imagine what you could have done with them." That's literally what Lucasfilm has been under Disney. "Imagine what could have been..." Indiana Jones, Star Wars, Willow. The greatest squandering of IP I've ever seen in my life. I hope 100 years from now, cinema historians still reference how awful Lucasfilm was run under Kathleen Kennedy and that will be her stupid, selfish legacy.
The Communist Chinese treat stolen IPs with more respect.
@@johndoe-lp9my Ironically South Park made an episode several years ago about China stealing the rights of Star Wars... because they genuinely wanted to protect it from Disney.
Age like fine wine.
I hope she lives on as a legend
"Kathleen the Defiler"
It's like they're trying to elevate Disney content by destroying all the other ones.
Imagine being the bint who will be known throughout history as the hack who screwed up and FAILED this hard.
Kathleen Kennedy doesn't have to.
When Indy thought Marion had died in Raiders of the Lost Ark; when Indy discovered the betrayal of Elsa, and again when he found out she had similarly betrayed his father; when Indy had the touching moment with Short Round after Short Round rescues him; add in several other moments of Indiana Jones discovering something horrible has happened to someone he cares about due to his actions, or his failure to save them.
These are REAL character arcs. These are character growth moments. This is what happens when REAL people see the results of their actions when those actions end up hurting the people they care about. These are the real reactions of people who, in the desperate struggle to survive, end up killing others in order to do it, even enemies.
This is the essential difference between Harrison Ford (an actually GOOD actor) and Phoebe Waller-Bridge. One understands human nature. The other is a naive douchebag who has no understanding of real tragedy.
She wasn’t attached to that guy that got killed like Indie was
Also that guy got shot because Indie recused to comply.
She isn’t confirmed autistic but I feel like I’ve done similar.
She also sobers up when Indie tells her his friend died
Not to mention when she sees he’s hurt, she’s upset
She feels sympathy when he tells her his story about his family.
This is a damn good comment.
@@SupHapCak But she doesn't really care about her dad and instead of having her look for the device as a means of closure with her dad, and/or his insanity over it, or something meaningful she only does it to make a quick buck. She's a psychopath.
What this movie really needed to save it was Short Round all grown up and assistant/adopted son to Indy, not Helena. Short Round was actually likable and loyal to Indy, not snarky and demeaning like Helena.
The obvious conflict for Indy should've been between having a safe and fulfilling family life and the thrill of one last hurrah in the field. Have him still be capable and heroic while still making it clear that not only is he in fact getting too old for this shit but that the thrill isn't worth the risk now that he has a family.
It's such an obvious arc for an aging character and it's wild that today's writers are incapable of seeing that.
We need flawed and likable female characters. Not unlikable ones.
IMHO, I don't think it's about writing flawed characters, it's usually important to have a hero's journey or redemption arc of some sort.
Eh she's already flawed, they're just not recognised as flaws. Writers with life experience, and even a passing ability to understand someone else other than themselves would do it tbh.
You're being fem-phobic. 😅
ironically an outright unlikeable one would be kinda interesting.
as in: not the type that is quite unlikeable but somehow being played as if it wasn't. but a legitimate douche.
(which would give room for a real character development, depth etc.)
There's nothing wrong with an unlikable character as long as the story itself is aware that the character is unlikable. The real issue is when a character who is intended to be likeable is incompetently written and ends up being unlikable unintentionally.
Disney gave Kathleen Kennedy 300 million dollars to make a film just for those who are on her Christmas card list
Pretty sure she's not a Christmas person...
About that many will watch it.
What sort of psycho sends a Christmas card to themselves???
She probably gifts people coal on christmas
@@aliasjones6381 The type of person who only casts female actress which have the same hair colour as them
That part about some supporting characters dying for the sake of the main characters: what instantly killed the movie "Valerian and the City of a Thousand Planets" for me is the scene where the two main characters, Valerian and Laureline, are escaping from the Big Market, chased by an unstoppable monster that keeps getting closer, and the crew who first helped them to get there and steal what they needed to get, and are now helping them to escape, keep getting killed one by one, and Valerian and Laureline seem to pay no attention to that, or try to help any of them, but seem totally focused only on their own escape. And once they have gotten away they seemed to have instantly completely forgotten those men who died helping them.
The only conclusion I could make from that scene was that the main characters were both psychopaths. And the way it was written didn't even make them seem like interesting and charming psychopaths who might have been fully aware of their nature, ala Hannibal Lecter, but pretty dull and boring ones who seemed to think they were the good guys.
Now why should I be interested as to what happens to characters like that, except by maybe hoping they get spectacularly killed sooner rather than later?
(Very disappointing adaptation, I really like the comics, the only good thing was that visually the movie was fairly faithful to those, the exception being that the main characters were played by actors who didn't even look like the comics Valerian and Laureline)
Having seen that movie, I can say the same thing bothered me. Like, if people are dying around you, even if you don't know them, have SOME reaction
Kathleen Kennedy genuinely deserves to be investigated for some conspiracy theory, there’s no goddamn way this is unironically done
Conspiracy in itself is not a crime
It has to be a conspiracy to commit a crime.
These Kathleen Kennedy self insert Mary Sue characters are so aggravating. Not just because they are more competent than the males, but they also need to talk down to the males and be the "Morality Guardian" that is never wrong.
And that is exactly what it is. Katherine Kennedy day dreaming as a grown @$$ woman that she could be this character and could do it better than any man. I can only imagine what it is like being married to her and she must have really pulled the wool over George Lucas' eyes not for years but for decades.
It's exactly the type of thing an aggrieved ' coffee lady ' would do to show up those older men who created institutions once she was given power.
For the record if it was a man who was just born perfect and never made any mistakes and just automatically had every skill necessary to succeed, that would be equally unbelievable and another story that’s hard to invest in because it’s so unrealistic. Even John Wick gets shot sometimes.
@@erikdayne5429 Oh trust me, male Mary Sues (Gary Sues) are just as bad. They are quite prevalent in anime, especially Reincarnation/Isekai stories.
Ummmm if you watched the film she’s actually not a Mary sue
She actually has earned her experience
To be honest I didn’t think she was the worst thing. Oh she was horrible for sure but the worst part was how they treated old Indy. Taking away his job, his family, making him all miserable and pathetic and making fun of how old he is. There are plenty of old people who stay married and have fulfilling lives not everyone ends up miserable at 70/80
My parents and in-laws are shining examples of this
I just watched the movie and the Drinker is full of sh*t. The movie sucked don't get me wrong but telling everyone 'she was smarter than everyone and better than anyone' just because she is a woman is bs. She was the generic 'younger generation' person like you see in so many movies, she only happens to be a woman. If the role was for a man nobody would be talking about it.
Harrison Ford shouldn't have taken the role nor should they have made a movie about old Indiana Jones. It's just sad and pathetic.
@@myselfandeye3884I just wish phoebe didn't have a constant stank face.
@@myselfandeye3884 Helena is an insult to the 'younger generation' character trope.
@@myselfandeye3884 Helena is very much Not the typical 'younger generation' character. She fills that role, but the way she is written is a trend seen only in recent years exclusively for female characters.
Indiana Jones was never that flippant when he killed people. At times he could be a bit callous, arguably, but he was never like, "Yay, I killed people! Yay me!"
The one time that I recall where he might have been a bit overly flippant was in "Last Crusade" when he had just survived a motorcycle chase against a bunch of Nazi's and he had a grin and gave a slight chuckle as he looked to his dad for approval, only for his dad to frown and wind his watch.
yeah, that was more like, I can't believe we survived that grin, if anything
When Indiana Jones and the Crystal Skull came out me and my wife went to see it, we are big fans and went in singing the theme and smiling, like we were back to our teen years, we left the cinema in silence, Indiana Jones died that day.
"How many *STRONG FEMALE CHARACTERS* do you want?"
Kathleen Kennedy: Yes!
Reporter: “What made you want to make this movie?”
Kathleen Kennedy and Mr. Krabs: “Money.”
It would be easier if they said: we just want to get rid of men
"Many good,well written or compelling (female) characters do you want?"
KK:What are those?
Easy question: None, whatsoever.
Name me just one recent SFC character, that doesn't come with the full extent of "messages", and that's why.
They're tied together, in one big predictable and boring package of regurtitations of ideologically driven trendy buzzwords and talking points. I pay to be entertained, not lectured to by people who have no business telling me what to think or mean, about anything.
@@ggt47 Why do you say SFC characters? The 'C' stands for characters.
They focus on making the character smart, competent and strong but forget the most important thing of being LIKABLE.
This! Likable characters matter and we gravitate towards those kinds of characters
The creators of those characters don’t know how to be likable.
@@theguybehindyou4762 Right! The characters reflect the writer's personalities.
It didn't help the actress is completely insufferable.
Smart ? She's not smart. She just has the answers given to her by the writers. That's not smart, that's cheating.
Not even a minute in, and I need to comment. I've seen more than a few studies and polls that show older and retired folks are actually pretty damn happy. They tend to have friends, hobbies, plenty of "down-time", lack of stress, etc. Overall, it seems like being a retired "oldster" is pretty cool -- if you bother to listen to the retired oldsters.
I know that my grandparents and then my parents were quite content and enjoying a slow-paced but interesting and contented retirement. My paternal grandparents both made it past 90 years old. My parents both made it past 80 years old (in spite of being long-term smokers). Being a "retired old man" is (if polls and data are to be believed, and they should be) pretty cool. Now, I will grant, being alone makes things worse (as they portray poor Indy). Having family, children, grandchildren makes a huge difference. But still, being old and retired is statistically speaking, pretty decent and happy.
But as usual, the Marxist leftoids want to destroy everything that Western culture has built and reveres.
What I continue to fail to understand about these Marxist leftoids is WHY. WHY? Why do you want to destroy what has worked quite well for thousands of years? Why do you hate everything so much? Why hate? Sure, strive to find ways to make things better. But why all the hate? Most things CAN be improved without completely destroying them and then starting from scratch. Improve rather than destroy and rebuild. (Hell, they even made a slogan of "repurpose, reuse, recycle" or whatever). The whole desire for destruction is unfathomable to me.
"Let the past die, kill it if you have to"
I's never have guessed that line was the new Lucas Arts motto under Kennedy.
Most people in Indy’s shoes would have justifiably abandoned her after the second attempt she made to have him killed, hell when Indy’s best friend was murdered and Flea-Bag was going off on how great she was that warranted a swift backhand at the very least.
That probably would have happened if this film was written two or three decades ago. Baffling that basic human emotions, reactions, and logic are lost on these multi-million dollar projects.
@@tlk4554just rewatched The Last Crusade the other day and noticed something I never had before, when the villain shoots Indy’s dad in order to “motivate” him into retrieving the grail there’s a brief moment where Indy, in a rage stands up from his fathers side and looks like he’s about to try to punch or tackle the villain despite being surrounded by armed men who’d kill him instantly if he tried.
It’s a pretty great moment, Indy is normally very level headed but for a brief moment nearly let’s rage take control of him which is completely understandable for the situation he’s in.
@@ghostrangerz8273 save thing happened to the Drinker:
BREAKING: "Toxic misogynist homophobic and racist TH-camr Will Jordan thrashed and burned down a cinema complex in Glasgow after not liking the screening of "Fleabag Ravenwood and the Empty Egg Carton". Survivors inform from the emergency room that after the deed, still covered in dust and ashes, the man downed a bottle of whisky in a single gulp and _went away_ loudly singing IT'S OPEN BAR followed by a kind of creature wearing a gas mask..."
@@ghostrangerz8273That movie has so many great scenes, among it the slap Indy gets from his father for the blasphemy. It’s also quite good at balancing out humor with deep, heartfelt scenes (i.e. where Indy climbs up the cliff, while everybody looks down in shock about his death vs when his father makes him let go the holy grail). It also is great at balancing out the two characters and the two very charismatic lead actors, which is imo an underestimated achievement.
True, but it isn't in Indy's character to abandon those important to him. Unfortunately he had to be indebted to this little shit as her godfather and very good friend to her father. A backhand or two would've been nice, though.
I’m surprised she didn’t list her pronouns and declare that Black Lives Matter
Nothing worse than promoting mental illness and wild rampaging apes
Easter Eggs! They will sneak something in.
Clearly this proves she’s a racist, transphobic bigot.
BREAKING: "Toxic misogynist homophobic and racist TH-camr Will Jordan thrashed and burned down a cinema complex in Glasgow after not liking the screening of "Fleabag Ravenwood and the Empty Egg Carton". Survivors inform from the emergency room that after the deed, still covered in dust and ashes, the man downed a bottle of whisky in a single gulp and _went away_ loudly singing IT'S OPEN BAR followed by a kind of creature wearing a gas mask..."
I'm surprised that the Nazi character did say something like, "What are you doing here, boy?" when talking to black men. And, that the Nazi has a blond comb over.
I kept thinking about the female character from The Mummy and how much better she was, an obviously attractive woman that was quite bookish, uptight and clumsy and becomes a heroic, responsible and tough character, a great arc for her. This oviedo had none of that
Meanwhile Nic in Extraction 2 is not only a genuinely strong female character, but shes also a well written one, is actually gorgeous, and played by a fantastic actress. So obviously shes never gonna be cast in mainstream Hollywood stuff. which is incredibly sad.
Jeremy Jahns said it best: the CIA agent had a far more compelling character motivation and a reason to team up with Indy. She finds out Nazis have infiltrated the CIA and might need to pull a "Captain America: Winter Soldier" to oust them. She is like the complete opposite of Indy aesthetically and professionally, so it's classic buddy-cop dynamic.
an honest CIA agent? that's too much of a stetch..
I thought she was a better idea for a character/sidekick. Hardly any screen time, yet you got that she had a good moral compass and was compassionate
@@TheIncredibleBeard_ Disagree with good moral compass and compassionate, massively. She didn't want a full shoot-out doing a parade and didn't want bodies in a school that's not being compassionate it's not being stupid.
Thank you for paying $$$ and supporting Kathleen and Disney putting this crap out.
lol
"I hate this stuff, but here take my $ every time!"
Imagine if you guys actually had some discipline and didn't go see this crap? Maybe Kathleen would finally get fired, and better movies might get made.
@@ljvwright 🤷🏻♂️ I'm a half full type of guy and believe in the good in people 😉
Ripley from Aliens,
All the Women from Steel Magnolias,
The Bride from Kill Bill,
Both Women from Obsessed. Tons of great films to model a "strong female" character after. Yet, they go for, "Woman: smart and strong. Man: woman hater and man-spreader"
Why do they even ignore these films?
I really like Vi and Jinx in Arcane. It's a story about two siblings, war orphans at that, who're adopted by a former revolutionary turned a pragmatic pacificist. Now, any one one of those characters could've been either gender. Vi and Jinx just happen to be women (because of the LoL setting) but the important thing is they were written as interesting characters first, and the gender and possibly sexual interests came *after* that. Also it's kinda cute how Vi mimics Vander's hairstyle in the first episodes.
I don't want them to model anyone on any previous character. Why can't they write something _fucking_ _original_
Meryl Streep, Goldie Hawk, Jamie Lee Curtis, Helen Mirren, Nicole Kidman... I can think of a lot of actrices that played strong characters in movies, that did not need "no man to save them" / or that grow stronger as the movies progresses. Ironically, those are all actrices that have been (mostly) put to pasture or reelevated to some older mentor roles.
People over focus on Ripley/Aliens, Connor/Terminator etc... No, there are so many actrices that had a broad acting carrier from some movies Romanic interest, some damsel in distress, and some strong female lead.
Edit: I just realized, i can barely name one female actrice of the new generations because a lot are so generic in their roles, they get switched out between movies and people do not even realize it (Transformers 1 and 2). Yet, i can easily think of so many older actrices despite not seeing some for 10+ years on the screen.
‘Smart and strong’ but smug and facetious along with it . . . 🙄
My grandfather is obviously a old man but he enjoys every day like it’s last (because it could) that doesn’t mean he’s spending a lot of money but more enjoying time with his family and friends that want to see him and doing hobbies that he enjoys and enjoys a few beers while watching his local rugby league team plays and he could be happier, why does LucasFilm have to make every old person sad and miserable?!
The two plots the drinker suggested as character arcs for our *strong female protagonist* are actually fantastic ideas. Either her finding value in selflessness or learning the cost of living in the shoes of Indiana Jones. Man it took you how long to come up with either of these genuinely great ideas that would fit into this story way better than whatever it was they did...
Alternatively, make her a rogue and con artiste because that's the only way that she and fleabag know how to survive. But, in addition to cedeing the moral high ground to Indy, and KK (what's her middle initial, BTW,) it would require Helena to be a secondary antagonist, even if she face-turns later.
Or perhaps she would be part of the then-budding anti-colonialist movement and the former Nazi's actions place Indy in a middle ground. After all, how can you respect what you don't know exists? Indy represents the group that bring awareness of other cultures _by_ taking their artifacts, whereas the former Nazi wants to use them to restore a dictatorship. But no, "Modern Audiences" don't have time for debate.
"The two plots the drinker suggested as character arcs for our strong female protagonist are actually fantastic ideas."
No, they aren't. They're threadbare cliches that we already get in every other mainstream adventure. Drinker and his cohort of manosphere fans are just so emotionally fragile that they can't abide the existence of any narrative that doesn't relentlessly spoonfeed them the same Saturday morning cartoon moralism they grew up on.
People complained about Willie Scott’s screaming, I’ll take that any day over this.
Annoying as Willie Scott was, she was a realistic character. Not every person, male or female, thrown into these kind of adventures, is going to be brave and super capable.
I liked Willie. She was supposed to be a pampered annoying woman. I thought it made her hilarious with how city girl she started out as.
The thing is, if the idea is to make them a reluctant hero, than HAVE them be happy, if they have a happy life than they won’t want to leave. Don’t make it so that they have no life anymore
*then have them be happy
*then they won't want to leave
_Than_ is used when making comparisons.
@@Eidolon1andOnly sorry my English is bad it’s not my first language
@@REELWORKS12923 I get it. English is not my first language either. It can be difficult to learn, or even master. Your English is still better than a majority of native English speakers I've met.
@@Eidolon1andOnly thank you
The only thing worse than watching 'The Dumpster Of Destiny' would be waking up next to Helena Shaw
Reading that literally made me shudder and say "ugghhhh" out loud. Well done!
@@trolleriffic 🤣👊
You just made me throw up.
this series was beloved to me in my childhood; this is such a sad end to the legacy of indy
Imagine a Fellowship of the Ring remake where Gandalf, instead of being the wise confident defacto leader of the group, is a broken old man that needs to be lead around by some new insert character.
where Gandalf's constant smoking is him self-medicating to cope
The Rainbow Wizard is a witch named "Morgothia"
That’s almost exact what the Rings of Power was. They retconned his actual story from Tolkein and made him a helpless buffoon that followed around a little girl who was rude and obnoxious.
@@uo1147 I thought that was Kenobi
I saw this last night and the fact she's actually standing in front of Indy so many times while he hangs around behind her is sad. Almost like he's being pushed out of his own movie.
I now call this Velma syndrome. Inexplicably writers will create the most unlikeable and easy to hate character and then try to build an entire story around them. Not a "love to hate" character either like Shameless or Always Sunny, simply hate to hate.
This movie is leagues above Velma
Just having a female character doesn’t mean she’s constantly virtue signaling or making poor references.
@@SupHapCak you don't see the point Jeremy was making?
Captain Marvel existed long before "Velma"
I couldn't believe people in the theater actually applauded this when I saw it last night
Have you noticed these characters are always written like tourists in a theme park? They're always sort of blithely bemused by the things that are happening, or giddy about saying an iconic catch phrase, seeing an iconic character, etc. It's true in comics, too.
God, I hate that so much. It's one the problems with MCU movies lately too. The characters exist in a world where things that sound silly in our world regularly happen and are often deadly serious. If the characters don't take it seriously why should anyone else?
yeah, I've noticed this trend too. It's like they're self aware they're in a movie and not present in the fictional world presented. Literally the last thing you want.
I’d buy it for the girl seeing supernatural stuff because she’s new but Indie has seen supernatural stuff before
Only Deadpool can do that.
Millennial writing. Everything is taken with sarcasm and met with snarky responses
And water is wet.
☝️🤓 "ackshually, water makes other things wet, water itself is not wet"
And the winner is
Rags disagrees.
@@AGnar0k 😂😂😂😂
Everything about her character are what the VILLAINS were in the original 3 movies. Like, she's basically a modern remake version of Elsa Schnieder from Last Crusade. You know, the self absorbed nazi doctor who betrays everyone at every turn and ends up dying because of her own hubris? Those character flaws are now VIRTUES to lucasfilm
8:43 Totally agree with Fringy there. It's almost like she knows she's in a movie and wants to ham it up for the audience so they don't get bored (judging from the views at Cannes, she failed at that). She was behaving like an actress in a movie, not a character in a world.
The worst thing about the movie is that it exists.
@@williamclayton2323💯💯💯💯
Soooo true
If they would have cast the actor who played short round in this it could have been great .
Him reuniting with Indy for one more adventure would have been great if it was well written.
They could have given him a great back story .
It's pretty clear that KK would rather ruin ips than make a billion $ movie .
Not in my world does it exist.
Helena Shaw is Kathleen Kennedy's self-insert character taken to the next level.
She's the character that KK wanted to play in 'The Last Crusade', except that she doesn't get to sleep with Indiana - those scenes were probably removed during the reshoots.
The Drinker seems baffled that she has all these different personalities, but to me it's pretty clear that she's a Split-level schizo.
The self reflection that the Grace character had in MI7 after Ilza was killed by Gabriel was well done
Waller-Bridge is like a queen hornet that goes into perfectly healthy bee hives and devastates them.
I actually like her but she is a one-trick pony. She did Fleabag basically. She did Fleabag even before Fleabag in Crashing (which seems just like a test-run for Fleabag).
Phoebe Waller-Bridge is the worst thing about anything she's in or involved with. I can't even begin to imagine the level of depravity she had to achieve to get so high up in the business.
maybe that sociopathic whore character wasn't acting at all
She was probably spit roasted quite a few times.
@@toadsanXThe word is that this horse-faced, pigg-uglee RawwDawgg Angel permanently soiled the Casting Couch with her nastee, reeking rotten-oyster juice...
In my experience almost every person with two surnames is just fd up
Considering that Ezra Miller is also their favorite toy, PWB has a similar femboy build
Imagine ‘Grandad’ Indiana telling stories to grandkids, parents being all ‘yeah, they’re just stories kids’, and then something from his past catches up with the newer generations.
Torch, passed.
A perfectly good story idea.
I don't think Mutt would say that, having been right there for at least one of those stories.
No torch passes. It never works, lightning doesn't strike twice
They did that in the Indiana Jones Chronicles. This movie effectively erased that.
That's exactly what I did for my own Indy 4 spec script (written long before Crystal Skull came out.) Indy and Marian were married. He's more settled down in the 50's and had essentially grown into his own father. OSS WWII vet. But his nearly grown rebellious son knows little to nothing of Indy's past, thinks he's just a professor and those stories exaggerated by what's left of Indy's friends. His son gets in trouble in China over a girl and Indy has to bring him back. The son sees the wisdom and hidden courage of his father. Indy comes to understand why his boy rebelled, and comes full circle learning through experience why Henry Sr became the way he was to Indy. It was a story about the cycle of life in men, and with gaining wisdom and love there is always a tradeoff of suffering and responsibility.
Short round was a fantastic character. The idea of having him with Indy and possibly replacing Indy is great.
It should have been his son versus a maligned Lara Croft character. They would hate each other, but work well together while Indie was nose deep in some archives somewhere. Being useful within his means. His body is old, but his mind doesn't have to be.
How cool would it have been to replace Fleabag with Short Round? That would have made the movie so much more fun.
That's because it would been a different movie.
It is insane to me that Ke Huy Quan won an actual Oscar and was not the first choice to carry Indy's legacy.
@@adamkares7549 well, he can't act, can barely speak English, and has no charisma or physical presence whatsoever so how would that have been any better?
Instead.. they made a new Short Round who joins Helena in their adventure...
I thought he was supposed to cameo in this also?
A scene that sums up the way the producers think about Indy is when Helena and her short round rip off are watching Indy getting gear for the mission the boy turns to Helena and says I think it goes like this not word for word but close enough.
'He thinks he's running the show. Where does he get that Idea'
and she says ' No He's not running the show'
' I thought we were in this for all the wrong reasons'
'We are' and ' I'm still in charge''
I remember saying out loud that it sounds like a pitch meeting about the movie like they wanted to have her be the main character but needed Indy to carry the move while pretending she's actually the star.
"they wanted to have her be the main character but needed Indy to carry the move while pretending she's actually the star" pretty much every dying franchise today
I understood that scene a little bit differently. Teddy adored Helena as she was this funny, wise, woman that knows everything and is capable. But comparing to Indy she is almost nothing. Indy knew more about visited places (Tangeer, Sicily) had a plan and was more resourceful. The scene (and previous scenes) were to show that Helena lives in a little denial (fantasy world) but comparing it with Indiana's world and reality hers starts to crumble. (being questioned even by her follower Teddy).
I can’t believe that exchange made it into the shooting script. It’s so bad.
That thought was screaming in my head, too, after watching this: Why do we always have to show older people nowadays as broken and depressed? Can't they be like Anthony Hopkins, who said in a recent interview that he's lead a blessed life full of success and he's just a happy rich guy now? And what happened to the beautiful house Indy had?!
The whole discussion of short round, excellent. It would have been awesome to have an Indy, Short Round reunion. Would Nassau beer enter this movie if it had happened.
At this point, when producers get a script that shoehorns in a strong female character who is meant to be the hero, how do they not go "Hold on, are you sure this isn't going to fail miserably? Let's rethink this for a minute". Like how do you not do that?
Because they are too deluded by ideology to think rationally.
Simple: their jobs are dependent on having the right opinions.
Because that would go against THE MESSAGE
Yeah it's not like it didn't work all the other times, lmao!🤣
Because like communism, it just wasn't done right literally every other time it was attempted. It can totally work this time.
And a 13 year old knows how to perfectly fly a plane in the most dangerous conditions
Does he yell, "Okey dokey, Dr. Jones!" while doing it?
I know this, its Unix!
Alright, come on now when has Indiana jones ever been plausible and realistic? If you watch these movies expecting that you are in the wrong movie.
@@haydenmalesky2518 Mads Mikkleson gets smashed by a pole and survives without a scratch. This movie is stupid and silly.
@@harryg2453 I’ll give you that, they should have at least giving him a little deformity in the 1969 era.
I love the idea of Shortround Taking over instead of this nonsense. I hadn't thought of it till you guys pointed it out.
the actor who played short round got a resurgence when Everything Everywhere came out, but Indy 5 was already filming by then
Gotta tell you people, not watching the woke disney and other film companies' garbage is really liberating. The thing is, until a certain point, I was feeling pressured to watch the new MCU movie/show, but then they were so god damn awful that, the moment I heared that there would be a new one on the horizon, I couldn't help myself but to laught and trying to predict what degree of awful is going to be this time. Of course not only disney but there are tons of other film companies that are vomiting these "progressive" movies and the moment I smell the shit, I am out. I know it is your job to watch and review the garbage, and I silently support you. Thank you for your service. Btw, the video game industry is quick to follow all of the shit that has been going on with the film industry, every new game is with a StRoNg female protagonist, and the game is full with the new gender politics that makes me throw up in my mouth.
I just play older games while learning to make my own films with SFM.
The only thing coming out of Disney that I'm willing to watch is Ashoka. And I actually have a bet with myself that I don't even make it through the whole season. Disney's track record (poor record at that) carries a lot weight.
I just watched the movie and the Drinker is full of sh*t. The movie sucked don't get me wrong but telling everyone 'she was smarter than everyone and better than anyone' just because she is a woman is bs. She was the generic 'younger generation' person like you see in so many movies, she only happens to be a woman. If the role was for a man nobody would be talking about it.
It has nothing to do with being 'woke' or 'progressive' it's just generic writing like we've seen in many movies. Hell you could say they dusted off the kingdom of the skull script and just changed some points in the story. Then they gave Shia's role to Phoebe to make it not that obvious they only changed the script.
@@myselfandeye3884Why are you spamming this comment across different threads?
@@Eidolon1andOnly Why? Are you in your feelings about it? I am just stating my opinion just like you do.
Phoebe Waller-Bridge has been riding off the success of Fleabag for years now. I've always seen her as a one trick pony and struggle to understand what people find appealing about her.
Middle age women relate to the character, that's about it.
@@RJALEXANDER777 A certain kind of middle aged woman...
When Crystal Skull came out, Harrison Ford once joked that if Shaia Labouf would've picked up the mantle it would've been more light hearted & weird "Indiana Mutt and the search for Elvis". I now desperately wish we had gotten that joke of a movie instead of Dial Of Destiny
**sigh** If only...
I am glad you liked it so much.
If these people weren't absolutely obsessed with agenda, this movie would've reunited Indy with the actor that played Short Round that did an amazing job in Everything, Everywhere All at Once.
Wait, wasn’t it going to? I remember reading an article about he and Harrison Ford seeing eachother on set for the first time since filming Temple of Doom and how Ford instantly recognized him.
That movie has everything (everywhere) that the woke would want without being a woke movie 10 out of 10 for sure
Man that could've been so cool
100% they didn't care until he won an oscar
@@ghostrangerz8273 Sounds like clickbait. Harrison Ford happened to be the one to announce the Oscar for Best Supporting Actor that Quan won and Ford didn't even seem to really notice him as he was just trying to get tf home. Quan however was grateful for the full circle moment.
Y'know one example of a talented producer that's taken charge of a franchise is Britt Allcroft, aka the creator of the tv show Thomas The Tank Engine And Friends. She built on pre-existing characters and respected the world of Sodor. For instance, she made Thomas more kind and mature, Henry more in love with nature, James proud and boastful of his bright red paint and Duck fascinated with the sea. God I love that show. Drinker or MauLer, PLEASE review this masterpiece.
Remember that one train who was bad so they bricked him up in a tunnel FOREVER?
@@Drak976
That's dark as fuck XD
@@Drak976 the Drinker would certainly make a comment like that...
@@Drak976 That is the episode that taught me what 'Irony' was. They didn't mention the word, but the penny dropped at the concept. He wasn't bad, he himself refused to come out of the tunnel in case his beautiful green paint got spoiled, so they just left him there and his paint got spoiled by dust and soot anyway.
Probably my favourite episode is All at Sea. That episode teaches the lesson of appreciating what you have around you and embracing it.
I watched my beloved Mother die slowly of cancer.
It was less painful than this movie.
More entertaining watching movie reviews now then watching the actual movie.
They made her unlikable because they reflect themselves into their characters.
As for the performance, Waller-Bridge is still playing Fleabag, complete with 4th wall shit.
I don't know why some people keep calling her Helena...
My grandfather,heck,all of my grandparents,were all happy,and seemed very laid back and serene the older they got. And my grandfather lost his son,my father, to an untimely death at a young age(like Indy w his son). It's not events that shape you.
Where has this narrative come from that older people are miserable?
I remember finding Christopher Lloyd’s character in “Nobody” to be a pleasant subversion, for similar reasons as what you stated.
Sorry events do shape you, maturity shapes you too, the older I get, the more I understand things. The more I look back at my younger self and cringe, the more I want to make up for past behaviour, the more I want to educate kids in not making the same mistakes I did. Maybe as you get to senior citizen things change, but at the moment, I have a lot to fix for my life.
Just to put a period on this whole subject. There is a girl aty gym who works out 2 to 3 hours a day 6 days a week here in Vegas. At the beginning of the year I decided to start lifting weights again as a New Years kind of thing. Within 3 weeks I was lifting twice as much as she was. The average person knows this is science, and even fantasy must include some sort of possibility. I recently watched Kill Bill Vol. 1. There were 4 or 5 awesome women in that film that kicked butt without pushing politics down your throat. That's how you build a strong female lead.
I remember in The Mummy when they run from the bugs. Rick stops to help the guy before he gets covered and eaten.
It reminded me of Luke walking past Threepio in episode 8 and totally ignoring him. It was actually Mark Hamill who winked at him because he felt that Luke had to acknowledge him
One of these days I have to finally watch the sequel triliogy
@@StockpileThomas1 You're not missing out on much. They're expertly shot and pretty films, but have very little actual content and rip off better stories.
@@RJALEXANDER777 Oh I know. I've been falling asleep to reviews for two years now. But every once in a while I come accross a comment that still leaves me baffled.
@@RJALEXANDER777 indeed. I've said and maintained that episode 8 is the prettiest one of the saga... And I find porgs fun XD
8 is such a troll film. Luke handing Leia force-projected dice has to be one of the confusingly spiteful things to do.
Research the history behind Hans dice, it makes that scene amazing.
These writers have a complete inability to create, which is why they "deconstruct (aka destroy) beloved characters someone else has made.
Evil cannot create, only corrupt.
Locusts only devour
FINALLY some talk about how great Ke Huy Quan would have been being the successor that gets handed the hat and whip.
I've been putting this same comment on every video about this movie so far. I have no idea how many else were saying it, but I'm glad the idea of what we DIDN'T get and could have had with fucking OSCAR WINNING Ke Huy Quan taking over. His fighting sequences in Everything Everywhere were GREAT.
My "perfect" version of the series going forward would have been a "Batman Beyond" style format with Harrison Ford playing the mentor role but largely out of the action and Ke Huy Quan taking the lead. It even meets any ESG BS they would need. If it doesn't happen they are complete idiots.
They had a golden opportunity handed to them on a silver platter and they blew it and let's be honest, all this is intentional.
@@ajsouza3720 It HAS to be to some degree. They keep thinking they can make something with an agenda entertaining. Well, you can't. That's like saying you'll make a business meeting entertaining.
The thing that got me was how nonchalant that kid was at murdering someone and seemed not scarred by that. Dude just cuffed a man underwater and left to drown, and he was totally cool with it.
Yeah I was like, you escaped
There was no reason to kill that guy.
@@SupHapCakthat guy was a gentle giant, he never killed anyone 😢
The reason these people write Indy as old and miserable is because that’s genuinely how they view getting older when they have no good values to make the future actually worth it.
There was a promotional ad where Harrison Ford said: "This is a movie the audience deserves."
Probably sarcasm but at the same time, not inaccurate
I'm genuinely curious If some actors actually watch what they participate in creating. If they do, how many of them go, "oh this is terrible".
@@noahsmith1053 Chris Hemsworth?
Ouch!
@@noahsmith1053 anyone from the series final last season of Game of Thrones? 😂
I watched Mr Holmes for the first time last night and that is how a film should be made .
It didn't take away from sherlock but even in his dementia ridden state he passed wisdom down to a new generation whilst also solving his final case.
How?
@@rustyshackelford4224 how what?
You are so right. Well I just saw it. Spectacular production values, ambience all over the map, a plot that makes no sense but is full of action, top talent in supporting roles, and a leading lady that is at once annoying and lackluster. But Harrison Ford is magnificent, well worth the watch. If that's his last movie, that's okay. But it could have made sense, and it didn't. I gave up trying to follow the plot and just watched the magnificent job being done by Ford, Toby Jones, Mads, Banderas... and endured her scenes. I couldn't watch Fleabag either. Finally, yeah, why can't Indiana Jones be an awesome old man, still in love with his partner, still enthusiastic, still in shape, still working at 80, like Harrison Fcking Ford.
Get Michelle Yeoh as Wu Han’s daughter who is now married to short round. Indy is still famous and well respected. Plus Salleh, the 4 of them go for a adventure to look for the first emperor of china tomb or something like that. I think that will be a awesome movie!
The story can be Marion was being kidnapped by a mad billionaire who wants Indy to find the elixir of immortality. Indy seeks help from his old friends. Short round and his wife can handle the fighting and indy being the brain figuring out the mystery.
The proper sending off for Indy and Marion - after Matt death, they decide to live their remaining days in the tavern in Nepal. Indy gives his hat and whip to short round and his wife and told them “You two will have many great adventures”.
No...I think the IP needs to go to the vault.
Short Round was the true successor to Indiana Jones. Change my mind
It only speaks of modern women's vanity how they imagine themselves as these perfect, unstoppable geniuses. So afraid to show weakness
It's inexplicable that they didn't bring the Short-Round character back for this - it would been better on every level than Hellena, and it would have perfectly fit the requirement for a younger side-kick to Indy without disrespecting the guy.
Nothing good comes out of deciding you are going to create an iconic character before you've even started the script. Your job is to tell a story, the audience decided whether the character will be considered iconic or not.
couldn’t have said it better myself
Remember Ellen Ripley, T2 Sarah Connor, Vasquez and others?
Good times
Vasquez an abrasive woman who acted like the guys,but still was likeable cause you could see she actually cared about her comrades and most of it was just ribbing. And even in the end her insults were signs of respect. Though wonder how they would take a red headed jew playing a Hispanic now.
5:14 I agree with Critical Drinker about the Character Development potential that he describe so eloquently. That's part of what's missing in so many of the current super hero and adventure movie flops today. But Hollywood doesn't want ppl to have morals, ethics, or compassion, let alone a Lead character that make a stand for good and doesn't deviate from their standards. They want them all to be "tolerant" and "accepting' of every trashy idea or person with a mental illness that comes along.
My grandma is 94 years old. Grandpa passed away 18 years ago, and now she lives alone in her Las Vegas house.
So long as she has diet coke, chocolate, the Golden State Warriors, and the occasional family visit, she'll keep living as long as she can.
Being old is not miserable.
Everyone forgets that Harrison Ford agreed to this and took the money.
Which he didn't even need. That's the real tragedy
he needed that new pool in his vacation home 😂
I'm hoping this is a Bruce Willis situation and Harrison didn't know any better.
Hearing what this film _could_ have been is the most depressing thing. The studio blew it because they look down on the general public and keep trying to socially engineer art and entertainment.
If they're reading comments sections like this one, they have good reasons to look down on the general public. "Socially engineer art and entertainment" ffs.
@shotscarecrow, of course they do. If you can't see it exposed in CD's reviews, you're hopelessly lost.
@@shotscarecrowcucked Kennedy simp approaching
How does the production company survive while making financial losses like this?
Short round was kind of his adopted son anyway. It would've been epic to see Ke Huy Quan back on screen with Harrison Ford.
A father son type movie like Last Crusade
It's sad when a studio, like Disney, thinks (and assumes) that they know what the audience wants. But then ignores feedback from the very people they expect to buy their product. I would agree that the trend began with the last 3 Star Wars films: emasculate male characters, chuck them aside, and then insert a strong female lead. The problem with this formula is that it backfired spectacularly. They gave us two characters (Rey and Helena) that are....meh. The former being uninteresting, and the latter being unlikable. And this is what Disney wants to carry on those franchises? As someone who saw the original Star Wars as a kid, i don't want or care to see a washed up Luke Skywalker. Same with Indiana Jones. Disney did both characters a tremendous disservice and it shows in their final products. But what really makes me mad is that Disney camp is directly blaming fans (such as myself) for the dismal reviews, and refusing to buy their crappy product. I am reminded of the brilliant South Park episode - "The Ring." This sums up everything you need to know about "Disney."
“Anyone who doesn’t like this movie is a bigot and a hater”
Meanwhile their “true” fans dwindle
Extremely happy to see Mr H as part of the chat. Good to see you, mate!
I really appreciate After Hours & Open Bar. Arguments are cogent and spot on. I do think through the points you make, and don't believe I have completely buy in because some of this I don't really care about, but the deconstruction of iconic characters for no more reason than the boost new, unlikeable characters that these corporations can leverage... are these ideas partially a product of the isolation of the Covid lockdown? Social media brings out the darkness in people, and the physical social isolation draws that darkness out, especially when you're alone by yourself and gets sucked done that dark path. Oh man.
Speaking of scenes of reflections, one I always enjoyed was in Die Hard 4.0 when the hacker kid (I forget his name) says to John about him being a hero, and he reflects on what that's worth, divorce, a wife who doesn't rememner your last name. He doesn't want to be a hero because of that cost, but he does it because it's right. There is similarities between John in that movie and all these old heroes, but the difference is they treated John with respect.
It's because they make people around them so miserable that the only older men they see are grumpy so that's how they think they all are.
It's a deal breaker for me. Any film or series that revolves around the Insufferable Female Protagonist trope I will steer well clear of.
See you didn’t watch the movie you bum
Idk wtf happened. Female lead roles used to actually be badass without being overly masculine or looking down on every male. Ultraviolet, Salt, Elektra, Aeon Flux, Underworld, Matrix, Atomic Blonde, TOMB RAIDER, etc. Action films with female leads that worked in tandem with other male characters as equals while still being badasses both boys and girls could look up to. Apparently so called "feminists" of today don't really want equality, because it existed, they just want to be put on a pedestal. And they think looking down on everyone will achieve that.
This is what happens when you allow people with zero imagination but plenty of indignation. They will continue to do the same thing, expecting a different result, even though it is not their money they are wasting or their business that will crash and burn.
It's evident even with the score I've seen, Helena gets her own theme... twice! Track 2. Helena's Theme (3:31). Track 18. Helena's Theme (For Violin and Orchestra) (5:00).