Because this video did better than I thought it ever would (seriously, thank you for 10k views!), I thought I'd respond to some common comments: "Cool video, but I feel like the comparison is more applicable to neurodivergense/autism than gender exploration" I can certainly see the argument for that! It wasn't something that I thought of when I wrote this paper, but I agree with that point of view. "What does gender have to do with this?" This was a term paper I wrote for a rhetoric class. I had no prior awareness of what rhetoric was when I wrote it. This is my first stab at trying to write a paper using that type of writing. Do I consider myself a rhetorician? Absolutely not. There's a reason I don't say the word "rhetoric" in this video, I don't feel I have a sufficient grasp of the word to use it. That being said, I really wanted to write an essay about this movie and this was the first aspect that spoke to me. I worked with my professor to outline the arguments, and the rest is history. Since I'm a grad student and still enjoy making and editing videos, this was an easy way to make a video without having to spend too much time writing one from scratch. Not everything I say in this video is a hill that I will die on. I will, however, stand by the video component and the editing because that was what I worked hard on to perfect. "Why does everyone feel the need to make everything political/about gender?" "This is a stupid video and I didn't like it" See previous. Also, I'm sorry that you feel like your worldview is so fragile that a channel with less than 1k subscribers can disrupt that. Respectfully, go touch some grass.
i'm autistic and also have spent a fair bit of time thinking about gender, conformity and fitting in as both a person and a man, and while I do think the things in this movie tend more toward the autistic experience than a gender exploration experience, they're pretty linked imo. navigating social systems and figuring out how to present yourself in a way that's true to you but also fitting in is definitely an autism thing, but gender is also just one of those social systems. i can't say it's the same for every autistic person exploring their gender identity, but there are studies showing overlap between trans/nonbinary people and autism. another way to think of it is that gender is a social construct that is held and maintained mostly by neurotypical people, and so people that aren't neurotypical and don't see that social construct the same way are kind of inherently looking at it from a different lens.
Two things: 1 - seeing as you're a student of rhetoric, I might recommend "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", which while it has its flaws largely due to being very dated, inflicts you with a way of thinking that it actually uses a (not entirely) fictional rhetoric class to establish the principles of. 2 - Being both autistic and genderqueer myself, I think I have enough perspective to say that they do tie into each other somewhat. I personally think that a lot of what you have to say about how gender applies to the film ties Mr. Fox's story into the story of the two cousins in a way that you don't get when supplementing the gender lense for a neurodiversity lense. That is, I think Ash is depicted as neurodiverse and I think that either you can view Mr. Fox as not neurodiverse, or presenting autism in what I think would be an "unmodern" way (i.e. he's masking well into his adulthood and his special interest is a practice that puts his wife, family and neighbours in danger and he allows himself to express it anyway - these principles seem contrary to the modern, self-accepting approach being taken more and more often by autistic people that involves self-acceptance, being "out", and using the space gained by that lack of internal and external oppression to make room for special interests in their lives in healthy ways. That's just my opinion though and I could be way off base).
I hated Kristofferson as a kid. He always felt like those people in my class at school who were just... Better. Better grades. Better at sports. Better charisma. What's interesting to see now is that Kristofferson is a completely innocent party here. He's just a young kid trying to get by and live his life, like Ash. It's just that his identity falls neatly into the expectations set by society, and thus he is given peer reinforcement, validation, and more confidence in this identity. Ash doesn't fit into those criteria, and suffers as a result, even though there is nothing wrong with who he is. You can see Ash throughout the movie constantly grappling with himself. He wants to be himself, to be comfortable with his body and skills and interests, but to receive the support and recognition he desires, he feels he needs to compromise and present in a way that is more acceptable to others. I don't think Ash wants to be an athlete. Not really. Rather, he seeks approval from his peers, his father in particular, by pursuing the same sports his father excelled at. Trying to prove his worth. Ash builds up a natural jealousy of Kristofferson. Kristofferson doesn't have to try and fit the mold. He just fits. And in a world that sees those traditional traits as desirable above all, that just makes Kristofferson "Better", and Ash simply "Different". I don't know what Ash is. He doesn't know either. Could be gender non-conformity. Could be neurodivergence. I don't think Ash can know unless he stops trying to cram himself into roles that don't fit him, and starts accepting himself for who he is. That would be a lot easier if the people around him understood and supported him.
Same! I feel like these two things can easily intersect as autistic boys can be ostracized for not fitting in with other boys who also mask in their own way to impress their male peers and fit into masculine ideals.
Yeah! I always thought that as well because of how particular of a personality he is and his overall disregard of social cues. I'm not lying when I say (as an ally/member with aspergers) high-functioning autism and LGBTQ genuinely go paired together more often than most would think, but I can't personally find any true evidence on the latter in Ash. I haven't the faintest about what gender identity's got to do with his story, since he's only ever presented as having cisgender interests. He's just 👋different 👋.
I absolutely love to see folks talking about how presumably cis characters / cis people can in fact have problems with their gender identity. It's not just for trans folks! Great video, thanks for your hard work!
Yes yes yes yes! Gender is indeed performance. I've learned so much about myself and become more content with my gender expression by listening to trans folks. Their contributions to discourse around gender politics is invaluable.
It makes a lot of sense too when a lot of cis boys and girls grow up with having their gender questioned because they can't align accurately within the expectations of these roles. I never really knew how much it'd mattered to me personally, not being seen man enough until I became one.
This is a really interesting analysis of this movie that I’d never thought about before. As a trans guy, looking at some of these scenes under that lens makes them hit so much harder honestly. It’s so hard to try and figure out how to be masculine nowadays when traditional masculinity has become so stigmatized. It’s tempting to force yourself into that unhealthy space, just so you feel like you can conform to what society expects you to be as a trans guy. “You were born a girl and you transitioned to being a guy? Oh, well that must mean you hate makeup, fashion, cleanliness, emotional vulnerability, etc.” It’s hard to stop caring about this societal pressure, because you have so many people saying “well you’re clearly still a girl, because you’re emotional, you like sappy movies, you care a lot about other people.” So you’re tempted to prove these people wrong by forcing yourself in the complete opposite direction. To “prove” your masculinity through enforcing the unhealthy expectations that have been placed on men for decades. It’s tricky. I really relate to Ash a lot with that.
I can relate heavily to this. I’ve just this month accepted my identity as valid and come out to my family after several years of being a half-cracked egg. Heck, I’m *still* struggling to justify, even to myself, that I can be worthy of being called a man without conforming to those kinds of toxic and restrictive stereotypes, that it isn’t strictly necessary for me to “overcorrect” in a sense for my GAB. What’s helped me with that the most so far is looking at the examples set by some of my favorite characters, how they embody traits I value that some people might associate with femininity, while at the same time remaining wholly and validly masculine. Luke Skywalker is one of my personal gender heroes :) as are both protagonists of the original Yu-Gi-Oh! manga
@@hamstermc7807 Hey man, congrats on coming out! That shit is hard as hell, you should be proud of yourself for that. Also that’s genuinely really good advice, I never think of the men/male characters in my life as less masculine for having feminine traits, so why not apply that to myself? Hope ur doing well
I adore how this movie handles 'different' with Ash and company with a vague simplicity that leaves it very open to specific interpretations. I wish we had a less loaded term than 'dog whistle' but that's what it feels like as a neurodivergent and/or queer person having this character stand out to you in ways that straight or neurotypical folks wouldn't really pick up the same way. I think it's a fantastic representation for kids who are different that would very likely scoot under the radar of conservative parents, let's be real. If I'm not mistaken, the dynamics with Ash are an addition to the film from the original story, and I think it was an excellent choice. I think, like Guillermo del Toro and even Brad Bird to an extent, animation feels native to Wes Anderson. We gotta break the BS Hollywood stigma that this medium is only for kids FOR REAL. Wonderful analysis, I know it might feel like 'everyone's said everything' about this film, but I don't think you should discredit your contributions like that!! I adore this movie, and am a video essay freak, and have only really been blessed by a handful of takes thanks to that unholy algorithm. Keep on keepin' on!
"Fantastic Mr. Fox videos are over done, there's nothing left to go over" my good Video Maker, this gorgeous contribution you've made brought me to tears. And I'm trying to not be ashamed about it. As an amab person, genderqueer identifying, now stepping even deeper into who I am once again, am grappling with exploring how I want to live in my Contemporary Masculine, this video is a gem amongst gems. Your contribution compound with this era and experience echoing film adaptation conveying the weight and damage of traditionalist fatherhood has got to be praised. I, and I hope many other people with masculine projections, feel seen, validated and exonerated, but most of all inspired. As I have been inspired. Thank you for shining your unique light on a platform potentially flooded. But we saw it. And I wish to convey gratitude for the media you've graced the world with. Because gems like these will go to bolster the cleansing of the toxicity from traditional masculinity, and one by one, families, and eventually society can heal and repair, and become attached through Love. And not by living though the pattern of shame, taxing expectation, suppression and the damage unseen insecurities can do. So once again thank you for putting your effort into this video, and may its unique and personal healing affect and ripple out into the world.
Tbh during my watch I've seen Ash's place in the family and character arc more throught the lenses of neurodiversity. This was an interesting video though!
Dude, I didn't even realize it was possible to interpret in a different manner. I completely disagree that he "dresses like a girl", he dresses "WeIrD", different, that's the point
This is how I know tumblr's got a hold on me cuz I could see Ash as transmasc pretty easily in the same vein that Jessie Pinkman has been made a head canon transmasc king over the years. It's no secret that gender nonconformity and neurodivergence often co-exist in people. He's absolutely neurodivergent as well, and I think that's what makes the 'different' descriptor so crucial for the film. It's vague enough to be interpreted very specifically depending on how the viewer connects to Ash as a character. There's not really a right or wrong interpretation cuz the movie makes sure what makes Ash 'different' is something the viewer can connect with.
@@ashschmitt1501 Dressing like a girl is literally how one character described it though? Are you saying you disagree with the character(which I do as well), or the video?
@@michaelcheng9987 I disagree a little with the video, cause he uses the same terminologie, but completely disagree with the character (who, as it seems, was just trying to be judgemental)
I used to hate ash as a kid, at the time i related to Christopherson a lot with me being shy and praised a lot for my artistic skills. I saw ash as rude, spiteful, and unnecessarily egotistical and i hated how mean he was to Christopherson. a few years later, I've started coming to terms with my identity as a trans man and although i don't relate to ash personally, I'm more sympathetic towards him as i understand how difficult and frustrating it is to live in a world where your gender identity/worth is questioned and judged based on outside factors like height, athletic capability, the way you dress, and how it gets to you over time. If i grew up in the same conditions as ash, i too would be spiteful and envious of anyone who was naturally more masculine and accepted by society than me despite being younger than me, especially if my father accepted him right on the spot while casting me aside.
I loved this video! As a non conformative trans woman, my connection to my perceived masculinity has been contentious my whole life. As I got older, realized that it wasn't my expression I wasn't a fan of but how people perceived me I truly started feeling at my best. I spent years trying to fit into the boxes of what people wanted of me, be it "teen boy" or "young adult woman" that I never really considered how I specifically wanted to be. I didn't want to be seen as "different". After I truly internalized that my gender expression and exploration was my own, and that the ideals of what my "traditional masculine" father imposed on me always made me feel like I was less preferential to others. Always feeling like maybe he wished I was more like him than I was. Ash was always a character I felt close with as a kid, and this video really did make me understand (at least on some level) *why* that was (also not being diagnosed with autism as a kid really contributed to my feeling of being "different" that I wouldn't come to know about myself until years later). I hope to see more videos of yours in the future : )
Lovely essay! Although Ash seems to be heavily coded as neurodiverse, Mr. Fox’s traditional values of masculinity is what creates Ash’s conflict. Both these things are true and I appreciate shedding light on the gendered aspects of Ash, Kristofferson and Mr. Fox’s dynamic. 🧡
This really spoke to me, as a child, I related to Ash a lot, I wasn’t very athletic and I often felt very isolated from my other male peers. (Being gay didn’t shake the feeling either.) I just wanted to fit in, be accepted. Why was I different? Those were questions I never got to answers for until I was older. And it was only after they were answered, where I truly felt comfortable being me, and not like everybody else. But also, realizing why everyone was the way they are too, and that there’s nothing wrong with any of us.
i remember getting a lot of these points when i watched it for the first time a few months ago. super awesome to see i wasn’t the only one. i loved the video!!
I'm kinda loving this viewpoint. Obviously everyone else said or knows about how the movie represents aspects of autism through Ash and autism in general is a VERY tightly knitted weave in the Wes Anderson story telling style. You fully convinced me that this is an appropriate way to understand the themes of the movie, well done. I've watched this movie about half a dozen times and never did I really think about it from a gender perspective. I think partially because I'm also very solidly placed in my own little box of masculinity, doesn't help to have an older father which tends to mean you're pressed on learning to suppress emotion and reject inferiority.. It's nice to be able to open my mind to that sort of thing because I may be a cis male, but I'm still just as affected by the society I was born into as anyone else. Yes it comes with its benefits but also its curses. When you're born a man you experience a different world from other people, nobody tends to question your ability until you fail, nobody questions your process or your achievement, everyone seems to just assume you have it all together because you're the man, men are the strong ones, men get it done. Mr. Fox is very much a product of that environment where he's never had to question his place in hierarchy, he's strong and capable and controlled. Obviously it worked for him through most of his life but times change and it's ALWAYS the men getting left behind first in that tide. If nobody has to care about whether you've got it figured out then they don't have to care about your feelings because you can't possibly fail, right? Too many times are emotions the thing that kills a man, either the lack of control, the lack of confidence or a complete disillusionment with the purposes they serve. Fantastic Mr. Fox is a great story for showing how that situation can be *avoided*.
Oh my god, I showed my girlfriend this movie for the first time and by the time the credits rolled, we were literally talking about this EXACT same thing. I love how the movie frames Ash's gender exploration without making fun of it or talking down to him for it, rather his family encourages it (even if their vocabulary to talk about the subject is lacking). I'd go as far to say that even when the movie ends, that exploration doesn't. The closing scene shows Ash's face smeared with grape juice and it's clearly meant to remind the audience of makeup... I like to think it ends just before Ash's egg is about to crack, so to speak. (Also can I just say the editing here is phenomenal, I love the different effects you used to highlight moments of the film that reinforce the themes of this essay, just 10/10 video in every way)
Completely agree with Mr Fox and Christopherson's representations, but strongly disagree about Ash. To me, he is clearly neurodivergent and trying to be a stereotype like his father
We also gotta look at the situation from a more dynamic perspective. Yes, gender plays it's parts, but Ashes discomfort is also self induced mainly dude to age. We can compare that to younger children that are more self centered, yet driven to succeed. That's where a parent needs to use critical thinking skills to use the energy of that drive, but also tame the self-centeredness so the child/teen doesn't self destruct. There is a age gap between all 3 here and it shows in representation of masculinity.
I feel like "gender identity" isn't really applicable here, mostly I think because his gender isn't under contention (Even considering the feminine clothes, as it's more so Ash trying to rebel against his parents). I agree that Ash's character arc is about coming to terms with understandings of masculinity, and that story beat is usually called a coming of age story. Besides that I liked the video! The rainbow effects highlighted the character being discussed rather well.
I feel gender identity has always been a spectrum, and Ash's arc is defined by confusion regarding where he lies on that spectrum. Although Ash fits under a male label, the nuance of his masculinity cannot possibly be ascribed to a single label. I agree with your characterization of his character arc, but I would say that Ash coming to terms with his wiggly expression of traditional masculinity fits within the umbrella of gender exploration.
His clothes are not just 'to rebel' in fact I never took it that way, they are genuinely what he wants to wear. His father and other people describing them as weird or feminine have nothing to do with his choice to wear them, he doesn't want to be emasculated or made fun of because of them but they are what he feels comfortable in.
I feel like there’s also something to be said about Ash finally obtaining his father’s approval as an athlete and, instead of excitedly saying something like “Thanks, Dad!”, he just silently nods as though he no longer quite needs the outward confirmation and is finally more comfortable with himself. This was likely influenced by his budding friendship with Kristofferson, as evidenced by Ash reciting the mantra Kristofferson taught him right before his big moment of truth where he executes a perfect whackbat. In this way, Ash’s gender fluid exploration really displays the positive influences of both his traditional and contemporary masculinity figures.
I don't think it's as much him trying to cement his identity (gender or otherwise) as it is him being neurodivergent. Which in turn, affects the lens he views his gender through, as many neurodivergent people do, relating to their gender differently (or not at all in some cases) than allistic people. He doesn't need a rolemodel, he's already doing things his way in his gender (viewed by some others as too feminine). He's secure in the identity he made for himself. What he isn't secure of are his abilities and relationship with his father, who struggles to see masculinity as anything other than the good old fashioned way, but comes around eventually.
While I agree with all of your interpretations, I alway considered masculinity, and femininity to be different from gender. I alway think of gender as a label you are prescribed as a generalization, and then you can change that or not. A tool to describe yourself, rather than how you present yourself. Is this just me, or do others feel the same? I Kinda see masculinity or femininity as a natural way you act. Like, you can be a feminine man, or a masculine woman and vice versa. Idk. Still a great video, definitely subscribing.
It's commonly referred to as gender identity vs. gender expression. Identity is the man/woman/non-binary/other label, gender expression is the set of things typically seen as signifiers of one's identity. Masculinity is the expression, and it's usually seen in things like athleticism, clothing choice, aggressive behaviours and actions, etc. Which doesn't take away from Ash's identity, but because he doesn't do these things others associate with masculinity, and therefore "maleness", he's seen as weird, or 😗♩ "different".
I love this movie, though admittedly, there is a part of me that suspects that Kristofferson would be seen as a “Different?” (where I am coming from is his big blue feminine eyes, soft white fur, doing ‘different’ things like crying when insulted, wearing a speedo, and yoga, I mean betters and normals only do push-ups and sit ups not yoga or non western, stuff unlike the non differenteese foxes, like Ash🤪) Kidding, The point I am making is one could argue that Kristofferson was the true different in his non western, non traditional masculine, hyper coordinated, feminine features with shy demeanor and plain dress, however they do not. Mr. Fox and the rest are impressed and admiring his “different,” as if everyone was a “bully,” like that animal who said “Ash Dressed like a girl,” Kris would have been treated the same as Ash. I look at Ash and I see a boy who’s trying to be “masculine,” to the point where it comes off as phoning it in and fake, I feel somewhere in his life, something happened between Ash and his father something that hurt him so badly that caused an issue that Ash, feels he must be more than his father, As Ash is imitating that superhero he has plastered on his walls and reads the comic books, that idiot animal would say “dresses like a girl,” but it’s supposed to be a super hero costume, the boy swims in a traditional masculine swimsuit, (unlike Kristofferson’s speedo) and is trying to out do his father’s strength and athletics and it appears isn’t matching entirely till the end. So with Ash, this “different” comes from the fact (I suspect,) he was unwanted, (Mr. Fox has a very scared/discomfort/ disgust expression learning Mrs. Fox was pregnant). So He probably hated Ash from the start thus Ash looks up to another masculine figure as he’s trying to out do his father. He imitates said superhero, and that is his sole identity, and he tries to out do the athletics and strength despite his lack of coordination and inner feelings of inadequacy, not having a bedrock of development. So I see a tragedy and yet they all seem to worship Kriss for his “Different,” as it appears he built his own bedrock and stability where as Ash doesn’t have said bedrock but is trying his hardest and failing.. at least they don’t get him (and for some in the beginning, didn’t want him I feel). That’s my 2¢ admittedly.
i feel like there a bunch of really deep comments in here that i sort of relate to, but tbh, my 9 year old ass had a crush on Christopherson (not a zooph1le) so uh yes
Tomboys are hated by both the alt-left and alt-right. 🤣 It's fun to watch both sides shut down when that one southern lady, help the the guys build the house, or catch catfish with her bare hands, or love guns.
People think ash dresses like a girl? I never got that impression, I thought he just wanted to wear what he wants. A cape and socks tucked in Is different but doesn't strike me as feminine particularly. He may be an egg, but I didn't get that impression at all until the scene at the end when his dad wad telling him the digging story and ash said "-or girl"
@@Carlos-bz5oo I did. And I've also seen this movie plenty of times. You people will find any way to correlate something back to gender. It's sad really
I don't see what this honestly has to do with gender. It just seems like people think Ash is kind of a weird loser and his cousin is the one who has it all together.
I look at Ash's character arch as more of a come of age type story not relating to gender in any sort of way. I believe the story was also never intended to be interpreted in this way. Saying this I also can respect your ideas and where you are coming from, I wish the best to you!
I would agree with you. The basis for this video came from a paper I wrote for a Rhetorical Criticism class I took last year. While I neither claim to be a rhetorician nor do I claim to know what rhetoric even is as a discipline, I was kinda learning about it while writing the paper. I've also been wanted an excuse to write a paper on this movie for a while now, as it's in my top 3 favorite movies. Appreciate the comment!
Bro wtf are you yapping about. I get the angle of Fox and comparing his animalistic desires to the masculine role in human society. But literally where did the gender exploration angle come from? I always thought his character/arc was about seeking aprobation and meeting the expectations of his father, and in a more subjective level, an understanding of autism. But if one line from his bully is all it takes to make his character be a representation of gender fluidity, idk what to tell you
Honestly I wish we could go back to a time when a man was a man, and a woman was a woman, and people got married, stay married, and had lots of kids. Wasn't always easy, but good things in life aren't supposed to be easy.
You're looking at things with rose tinted glasses. Forced marriages, domestic abuse. Stop rejecting people for who they want to be and embrace the modern
Because this video did better than I thought it ever would (seriously, thank you for 10k views!), I thought I'd respond to some common comments:
"Cool video, but I feel like the comparison is more applicable to neurodivergense/autism than gender exploration"
I can certainly see the argument for that! It wasn't something that I thought of when I wrote this paper, but I agree with that point of view.
"What does gender have to do with this?"
This was a term paper I wrote for a rhetoric class. I had no prior awareness of what rhetoric was when I wrote it. This is my first stab at trying to write a paper using that type of writing. Do I consider myself a rhetorician? Absolutely not. There's a reason I don't say the word "rhetoric" in this video, I don't feel I have a sufficient grasp of the word to use it.
That being said, I really wanted to write an essay about this movie and this was the first aspect that spoke to me. I worked with my professor to outline the arguments, and the rest is history. Since I'm a grad student and still enjoy making and editing videos, this was an easy way to make a video without having to spend too much time writing one from scratch. Not everything I say in this video is a hill that I will die on. I will, however, stand by the video component and the editing because that was what I worked hard on to perfect.
"Why does everyone feel the need to make everything political/about gender?" "This is a stupid video and I didn't like it"
See previous. Also, I'm sorry that you feel like your worldview is so fragile that a channel with less than 1k subscribers can disrupt that. Respectfully, go touch some grass.
i'm autistic and also have spent a fair bit of time thinking about gender, conformity and fitting in as both a person and a man, and while I do think the things in this movie tend more toward the autistic experience than a gender exploration experience, they're pretty linked imo. navigating social systems and figuring out how to present yourself in a way that's true to you but also fitting in is definitely an autism thing, but gender is also just one of those social systems. i can't say it's the same for every autistic person exploring their gender identity, but there are studies showing overlap between trans/nonbinary people and autism. another way to think of it is that gender is a social construct that is held and maintained mostly by neurotypical people, and so people that aren't neurotypical and don't see that social construct the same way are kind of inherently looking at it from a different lens.
Two things:
1 - seeing as you're a student of rhetoric, I might recommend "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance", which while it has its flaws largely due to being very dated, inflicts you with a way of thinking that it actually uses a (not entirely) fictional rhetoric class to establish the principles of.
2 - Being both autistic and genderqueer myself, I think I have enough perspective to say that they do tie into each other somewhat. I personally think that a lot of what you have to say about how gender applies to the film ties Mr. Fox's story into the story of the two cousins in a way that you don't get when supplementing the gender lense for a neurodiversity lense. That is, I think Ash is depicted as neurodiverse and I think that either you can view Mr. Fox as not neurodiverse, or presenting autism in what I think would be an "unmodern" way (i.e. he's masking well into his adulthood and his special interest is a practice that puts his wife, family and neighbours in danger and he allows himself to express it anyway - these principles seem contrary to the modern, self-accepting approach being taken more and more often by autistic people that involves self-acceptance, being "out", and using the space gained by that lack of internal and external oppression to make room for special interests in their lives in healthy ways. That's just my opinion though and I could be way off base).
I hated Kristofferson as a kid. He always felt like those people in my class at school who were just... Better. Better grades. Better at sports. Better charisma.
What's interesting to see now is that Kristofferson is a completely innocent party here. He's just a young kid trying to get by and live his life, like Ash. It's just that his identity falls neatly into the expectations set by society, and thus he is given peer reinforcement, validation, and more confidence in this identity.
Ash doesn't fit into those criteria, and suffers as a result, even though there is nothing wrong with who he is. You can see Ash throughout the movie constantly grappling with himself. He wants to be himself, to be comfortable with his body and skills and interests, but to receive the support and recognition he desires, he feels he needs to compromise and present in a way that is more acceptable to others.
I don't think Ash wants to be an athlete. Not really. Rather, he seeks approval from his peers, his father in particular, by pursuing the same sports his father excelled at. Trying to prove his worth.
Ash builds up a natural jealousy of Kristofferson. Kristofferson doesn't have to try and fit the mold. He just fits. And in a world that sees those traditional traits as desirable above all, that just makes Kristofferson "Better", and Ash simply "Different".
I don't know what Ash is. He doesn't know either. Could be gender non-conformity. Could be neurodivergence. I don't think Ash can know unless he stops trying to cram himself into roles that don't fit him, and starts accepting himself for who he is.
That would be a lot easier if the people around him understood and supported him.
I’ve always seen Ash’s story as a kid learning to accept his neurodiversity (specifically autism) but I really like seeing it this way as well!
Same! I feel like these two things can easily intersect as autistic boys can be ostracized for not fitting in with other boys who also mask in their own way to impress their male peers and fit into masculine ideals.
Yeah! I always thought that as well because of how particular of a personality he is and his overall disregard of social cues. I'm not lying when I say (as an ally/member with aspergers) high-functioning autism and LGBTQ genuinely go paired together more often than most would think, but I can't personally find any true evidence on the latter in Ash. I haven't the faintest about what gender identity's got to do with his story, since he's only ever presented as having cisgender interests. He's just 👋different 👋.
As someone who's both autistic and queer Ash really resonated with me. For better and worse.
Am i as a heterosexual man not allowed to tuck my pants into my socks and wear a cape and a tube sock on my head
Cause it wEiRD!
Yes, you are.
You can and should try.
No you are not 😂it’s only for the “gurls”
Absolutely not
I absolutely love to see folks talking about how presumably cis characters / cis people can in fact have problems with their gender identity. It's not just for trans folks! Great video, thanks for your hard work!
Yes yes yes yes!
Gender is indeed performance.
I've learned so much about myself and become more content with my gender expression by listening to trans folks. Their contributions to discourse around gender politics is invaluable.
Yes! Im cis but i love videos about this and exploring too
It makes a lot of sense too when a lot of cis boys and girls grow up with having their gender questioned because they can't align accurately within the expectations of these roles. I never really knew how much it'd mattered to me personally, not being seen man enough until I became one.
I don't think anyone wants to identify as cis because it is not who they are
@@ShesquatchPineyIf gender is a performance…
Then mine got crushed by a falling stage light
This is a really interesting analysis of this movie that I’d never thought about before. As a trans guy, looking at some of these scenes under that lens makes them hit so much harder honestly. It’s so hard to try and figure out how to be masculine nowadays when traditional masculinity has become so stigmatized. It’s tempting to force yourself into that unhealthy space, just so you feel like you can conform to what society expects you to be as a trans guy. “You were born a girl and you transitioned to being a guy? Oh, well that must mean you hate makeup, fashion, cleanliness, emotional vulnerability, etc.” It’s hard to stop caring about this societal pressure, because you have so many people saying “well you’re clearly still a girl, because you’re emotional, you like sappy movies, you care a lot about other people.” So you’re tempted to prove these people wrong by forcing yourself in the complete opposite direction. To “prove” your masculinity through enforcing the unhealthy expectations that have been placed on men for decades. It’s tricky. I really relate to Ash a lot with that.
I can relate heavily to this. I’ve just this month accepted my identity as valid and come out to my family after several years of being a half-cracked egg. Heck, I’m *still* struggling to justify, even to myself, that I can be worthy of being called a man without conforming to those kinds of toxic and restrictive stereotypes, that it isn’t strictly necessary for me to “overcorrect” in a sense for my GAB. What’s helped me with that the most so far is looking at the examples set by some of my favorite characters, how they embody traits I value that some people might associate with femininity, while at the same time remaining wholly and validly masculine. Luke Skywalker is one of my personal gender heroes :) as are both protagonists of the original Yu-Gi-Oh! manga
@@hamstermc7807 Hey man, congrats on coming out! That shit is hard as hell, you should be proud of yourself for that. Also that’s genuinely really good advice, I never think of the men/male characters in my life as less masculine for having feminine traits, so why not apply that to myself? Hope ur doing well
I feel this 100%
I went from being forced to hide masculinity as a kid
to being forced to hide femininity as an adult
real weird
I adore how this movie handles 'different' with Ash and company with a vague simplicity that leaves it very open to specific interpretations. I wish we had a less loaded term than 'dog whistle' but that's what it feels like as a neurodivergent and/or queer person having this character stand out to you in ways that straight or neurotypical folks wouldn't really pick up the same way. I think it's a fantastic representation for kids who are different that would very likely scoot under the radar of conservative parents, let's be real.
If I'm not mistaken, the dynamics with Ash are an addition to the film from the original story, and I think it was an excellent choice. I think, like Guillermo del Toro and even Brad Bird to an extent, animation feels native to Wes Anderson. We gotta break the BS Hollywood stigma that this medium is only for kids FOR REAL.
Wonderful analysis, I know it might feel like 'everyone's said everything' about this film, but I don't think you should discredit your contributions like that!! I adore this movie, and am a video essay freak, and have only really been blessed by a handful of takes thanks to that unholy algorithm. Keep on keepin' on!
"Fantastic Mr. Fox videos are over done, there's nothing left to go over" my good Video Maker, this gorgeous contribution you've made brought me to tears. And I'm trying to not be ashamed about it.
As an amab person, genderqueer identifying, now stepping even deeper into who I am once again, am grappling with exploring how I want to live in my Contemporary Masculine, this video is a gem amongst gems.
Your contribution compound with this era and experience echoing film adaptation conveying the weight and damage of traditionalist fatherhood has got to be praised.
I, and I hope many other people with masculine projections, feel seen, validated and exonerated, but most of all inspired. As I have been inspired.
Thank you for shining your unique light on a platform potentially flooded. But we saw it. And I wish to convey gratitude for the media you've graced the world with. Because gems like these will go to bolster the cleansing of the toxicity from traditional masculinity, and one by one, families, and eventually society can heal and repair, and become attached through Love. And not by living though the pattern of shame, taxing expectation, suppression and the damage unseen insecurities can do.
So once again thank you for putting your effort into this video, and may its unique and personal healing affect and ripple out into the world.
Tbh during my watch I've seen Ash's place in the family and character arc more throught the lenses of neurodiversity. This was an interesting video though!
Same
Dude, I didn't even realize it was possible to interpret in a different manner. I completely disagree that he "dresses like a girl", he dresses "WeIrD", different, that's the point
This is how I know tumblr's got a hold on me cuz I could see Ash as transmasc pretty easily in the same vein that Jessie Pinkman has been made a head canon transmasc king over the years.
It's no secret that gender nonconformity and neurodivergence often co-exist in people.
He's absolutely neurodivergent as well, and I think that's what makes the 'different' descriptor so crucial for the film. It's vague enough to be interpreted very specifically depending on how the viewer connects to Ash as a character. There's not really a right or wrong interpretation cuz the movie makes sure what makes Ash 'different' is something the viewer can connect with.
@@ashschmitt1501 Dressing like a girl is literally how one character described it though? Are you saying you disagree with the character(which I do as well), or the video?
@@michaelcheng9987 I disagree a little with the video, cause he uses the same terminologie, but completely disagree with the character (who, as it seems, was just trying to be judgemental)
Between this and Isle of Dogs, I'm surprised Wes Anderson never delved into animated film more. He seems really good at it 😊
I used to hate ash as a kid, at the time i related to Christopherson a lot with me being shy and praised a lot for my artistic skills. I saw ash as rude, spiteful, and unnecessarily egotistical and i hated how mean he was to Christopherson. a few years later, I've started coming to terms with my identity as a trans man and although i don't relate to ash personally, I'm more sympathetic towards him as i understand how difficult and frustrating it is to live in a world where your gender identity/worth is questioned and judged based on outside factors like height, athletic capability, the way you dress, and how it gets to you over time. If i grew up in the same conditions as ash, i too would be spiteful and envious of anyone who was naturally more masculine and accepted by society than me despite being younger than me, especially if my father accepted him right on the spot while casting me aside.
I loved this video! As a non conformative trans woman, my connection to my perceived masculinity has been contentious my whole life. As I got older, realized that it wasn't my expression I wasn't a fan of but how people perceived me I truly started feeling at my best. I spent years trying to fit into the boxes of what people wanted of me, be it "teen boy" or "young adult woman" that I never really considered how I specifically wanted to be. I didn't want to be seen as "different". After I truly internalized that my gender expression and exploration was my own, and that the ideals of what my "traditional masculine" father imposed on me always made me feel like I was less preferential to others. Always feeling like maybe he wished I was more like him than I was. Ash was always a character I felt close with as a kid, and this video really did make me understand (at least on some level) *why* that was (also not being diagnosed with autism as a kid really contributed to my feeling of being "different" that I wouldn't come to know about myself until years later).
I hope to see more videos of yours in the future : )
Lovely essay! Although Ash seems to be heavily coded as neurodiverse, Mr. Fox’s traditional values of masculinity is what creates Ash’s conflict. Both these things are true and I appreciate shedding light on the gendered aspects of Ash, Kristofferson and Mr. Fox’s dynamic. 🧡
I shed a few tears. I'm agender, but this helped me understand how cis people explore their genders, very interesting and I fully enjoyed the video.
What does agender mean
@@epickillian Agender is just not having any gender. I don't relate to boy, girl, or nonbinary. I feel like none :) hope this is helpful
incredible video, i'd never thought about this before
you can really tell how much care you put into the process here, truly, great work 💗
This really spoke to me, as a child, I related to Ash a lot, I wasn’t very athletic and I often felt very isolated from my other male peers. (Being gay didn’t shake the feeling either.) I just wanted to fit in, be accepted. Why was I different?
Those were questions I never got to answers for until I was older. And it was only after they were answered, where I truly felt comfortable being me, and not like everybody else. But also, realizing why everyone was the way they are too, and that there’s nothing wrong with any of us.
i remember getting a lot of these points when i watched it for the first time a few months ago. super awesome to see i wasn’t the only one. i loved the video!!
The editing and special effects was really well done, kudos to you man
I truly enjoyed your video and thank you for the new perspective!
This movie while tripping on mushrooms RULES.
Very valuable analysis! Gender nonconformity and exploration in cis people is so underrepresented. Please make more of these!
Absolutely phenomenal video, thank you so much
Really loved Mr fox neat to see a character analysis on him
Banger video thank you I enjoyed it alot
Because I’m little makes me cry every time
I'm kinda loving this viewpoint.
Obviously everyone else said or knows about how the movie represents aspects of autism through Ash and autism in general is a VERY tightly knitted weave in the Wes Anderson story telling style. You fully convinced me that this is an appropriate way to understand the themes of the movie, well done. I've watched this movie about half a dozen times and never did I really think about it from a gender perspective. I think partially because I'm also very solidly placed in my own little box of masculinity, doesn't help to have an older father which tends to mean you're pressed on learning to suppress emotion and reject inferiority..
It's nice to be able to open my mind to that sort of thing because I may be a cis male, but I'm still just as affected by the society I was born into as anyone else. Yes it comes with its benefits but also its curses. When you're born a man you experience a different world from other people, nobody tends to question your ability until you fail, nobody questions your process or your achievement, everyone seems to just assume you have it all together because you're the man, men are the strong ones, men get it done.
Mr. Fox is very much a product of that environment where he's never had to question his place in hierarchy, he's strong and capable and controlled. Obviously it worked for him through most of his life but times change and it's ALWAYS the men getting left behind first in that tide. If nobody has to care about whether you've got it figured out then they don't have to care about your feelings because you can't possibly fail, right? Too many times are emotions the thing that kills a man, either the lack of control, the lack of confidence or a complete disillusionment with the purposes they serve. Fantastic Mr. Fox is a great story for showing how that situation can be *avoided*.
I love this movie so much!! I’ve been waiting for someone to talk about Ash. I relate to him the most-for better or worse
good vid lil bro fs thought u had more than 10k subs,you deserve it
Nice video on a movie I really enjoy, thank you for making this!
This is a fantastic analysis and needs more views! Also I hope you get an A+
14:21 is such a vibe
Oh my god, I showed my girlfriend this movie for the first time and by the time the credits rolled, we were literally talking about this EXACT same thing. I love how the movie frames Ash's gender exploration without making fun of it or talking down to him for it, rather his family encourages it (even if their vocabulary to talk about the subject is lacking). I'd go as far to say that even when the movie ends, that exploration doesn't. The closing scene shows Ash's face smeared with grape juice and it's clearly meant to remind the audience of makeup... I like to think it ends just before Ash's egg is about to crack, so to speak.
(Also can I just say the editing here is phenomenal, I love the different effects you used to highlight moments of the film that reinforce the themes of this essay, just 10/10 video in every way)
Completely agree with Mr Fox and Christopherson's representations, but strongly disagree about Ash. To me, he is clearly neurodivergent and trying to be a stereotype like his father
Great video. I always love seeing a small channel make a great video and get rewarded with an well deserved increase in views
Loved this, brings a whole new perspective to the narrative of the movie.
We also gotta look at the situation from a more dynamic perspective. Yes, gender plays it's parts, but Ashes discomfort is also self induced mainly dude to age. We can compare that to younger children that are more self centered, yet driven to succeed. That's where a parent needs to use critical thinking skills to use the energy of that drive, but also tame the self-centeredness so the child/teen doesn't self destruct. There is a age gap between all 3 here and it shows in representation of masculinity.
I feel like "gender identity" isn't really applicable here, mostly I think because his gender isn't under contention (Even considering the feminine clothes, as it's more so Ash trying to rebel against his parents). I agree that Ash's character arc is about coming to terms with understandings of masculinity, and that story beat is usually called a coming of age story.
Besides that I liked the video! The rainbow effects highlighted the character being discussed rather well.
I feel gender identity has always been a spectrum, and Ash's arc is defined by confusion regarding where he lies on that spectrum. Although Ash fits under a male label, the nuance of his masculinity cannot possibly be ascribed to a single label. I agree with your characterization of his character arc, but I would say that Ash coming to terms with his wiggly expression of traditional masculinity fits within the umbrella of gender exploration.
His clothes are not just 'to rebel' in fact I never took it that way, they are genuinely what he wants to wear. His father and other people describing them as weird or feminine have nothing to do with his choice to wear them, he doesn't want to be emasculated or made fun of because of them but they are what he feels comfortable in.
I feel like there’s also something to be said about Ash finally obtaining his father’s approval as an athlete and, instead of excitedly saying something like “Thanks, Dad!”, he just silently nods as though he no longer quite needs the outward confirmation and is finally more comfortable with himself. This was likely influenced by his budding friendship with Kristofferson, as evidenced by Ash reciting the mantra Kristofferson taught him right before his big moment of truth where he executes a perfect whackbat. In this way, Ash’s gender fluid exploration really displays the positive influences of both his traditional and contemporary masculinity figures.
This was a great video!
Good job, excellent thoughtful analysis of the characters 🙂
Really nice video essay
Now i need to rewatch the movie
Just when I thought I couldn't relate to Ash more I find out he has gender identity struggles
I don't think it's as much him trying to cement his identity (gender or otherwise) as it is him being neurodivergent. Which in turn, affects the lens he views his gender through, as many neurodivergent people do, relating to their gender differently (or not at all in some cases) than allistic people.
He doesn't need a rolemodel, he's already doing things his way in his gender (viewed by some others as too feminine). He's secure in the identity he made for himself. What he isn't secure of are his abilities and relationship with his father, who struggles to see masculinity as anything other than the good old fashioned way, but comes around eventually.
THIS, especially with the emphasis on "different" the whole time
Makes me loving this movie as a child make a lot more sense. Very good video
UNDERRATED!!!!! I LOVE THIS VIDEO
I showed this movie to my 60-year-old old married gay friend and he laughed when they watched the trains after Ash was mean. Haven't unpacked that.
I put this on to listen to and just checked the videos stats and I am in absolute disbelief that this is under 1000 views!!!
we stan ash, the metaphorical femboy king😼
(post-script: does this make any sense)
nice video! I hope it gets more views soon
FANTASTIC!!!❤
get more subs, please! I love your editing style and I hope to see more from you ^^
excellent video btw
While I agree with all of your interpretations, I alway considered masculinity, and femininity to be different from gender. I alway think of gender as a label you are prescribed as a generalization, and then you can change that or not. A tool to describe yourself, rather than how you present yourself. Is this just me, or do others feel the same? I Kinda see masculinity or femininity as a natural way you act. Like, you can be a feminine man, or a masculine woman and vice versa. Idk. Still a great video, definitely subscribing.
It's commonly referred to as gender identity vs. gender expression. Identity is the man/woman/non-binary/other label, gender expression is the set of things typically seen as signifiers of one's identity.
Masculinity is the expression, and it's usually seen in things like athleticism, clothing choice, aggressive behaviours and actions, etc. Which doesn't take away from Ash's identity, but because he doesn't do these things others associate with masculinity, and therefore "maleness", he's seen as weird, or 😗♩ "different".
@@michaelcheng9987 ok, that makes a lot of sense. Tbh he's always been my favourite for being 😙 "different"
I feel despiration in my soul. 8:11
im so glad other people love this movie too
I love this movie, though admittedly, there is a part of me that suspects that Kristofferson would be seen as a “Different?” (where I am coming from is his big blue feminine eyes, soft white fur, doing ‘different’ things like crying when insulted, wearing a speedo, and yoga, I mean betters and normals only do push-ups and sit ups not yoga or non western, stuff unlike the non differenteese foxes, like Ash🤪)
Kidding,
The point I am making is one could argue that Kristofferson was the true different in his non western, non traditional masculine, hyper coordinated, feminine features with shy demeanor and plain dress, however they do not.
Mr. Fox and the rest are impressed and admiring his “different,” as if everyone was a “bully,” like that animal who said “Ash Dressed like a girl,” Kris would have been treated the same as Ash.
I look at Ash and I see a boy who’s trying to be “masculine,” to the point where it comes off as phoning it in and fake, I feel somewhere in his life, something happened between Ash and his father something that hurt him so badly that caused an issue that Ash, feels he must be more than his father,
As Ash is imitating that superhero he has plastered on his walls and reads the comic books, that idiot animal would say “dresses like a girl,” but it’s supposed to be a super hero costume, the boy swims in a traditional masculine swimsuit, (unlike Kristofferson’s speedo) and is trying to out do his father’s strength and athletics and it appears isn’t matching entirely till the end.
So with Ash, this “different” comes from the fact (I suspect,) he was unwanted, (Mr. Fox has a very scared/discomfort/ disgust expression learning Mrs. Fox was pregnant). So He probably hated Ash from the start thus Ash looks up to another masculine figure as he’s trying to out do his father. He imitates said superhero, and that is his sole identity, and he tries to out do the athletics and strength despite his lack of coordination and inner feelings of inadequacy, not having a bedrock of development.
So I see a tragedy and yet they all seem to worship Kriss for his “Different,” as it appears he built his own bedrock and stability where as Ash doesn’t have said bedrock but is trying his hardest and failing.. at least they don’t get him (and for some in the beginning, didn’t want him I feel).
That’s my 2¢ admittedly.
This is a great video and i agree with your analysis of gender here
i feel like there a bunch of really deep comments in here that i sort of relate to, but tbh, my 9 year old ass had a crush on Christopherson (not a zooph1le) so uh yes
Tomboys are hated by both the alt-left and alt-right. 🤣 It's fun to watch both sides shut down when that one southern lady, help the the guys build the house, or catch catfish with her bare hands, or love guns.
People think ash dresses like a girl? I never got that impression, I thought he just wanted to wear what he wants. A cape and socks tucked in Is different but doesn't strike me as feminine particularly. He may be an egg, but I didn't get that impression at all until the scene at the end when his dad wad telling him the digging story and ash said "-or girl"
Term paper ok😮
what does this have to do with gender?
Watch the video
@@Carlos-bz5oo I did. And I've also seen this movie plenty of times.
You people will find any way to correlate something back to gender. It's sad really
Next video: Is Pong racist?
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I don't see what this honestly has to do with gender. It just seems like people think Ash is kind of a weird loser and his cousin is the one who has it all together.
I look at Ash's character arch as more of a come of age type story not relating to gender in any sort of way. I believe the story was also never intended to be interpreted in this way. Saying this I also can respect your ideas and where you are coming from, I wish the best to you!
I would agree with you. The basis for this video came from a paper I wrote for a Rhetorical Criticism class I took last year. While I neither claim to be a rhetorician nor do I claim to know what rhetoric even is as a discipline, I was kinda learning about it while writing the paper. I've also been wanted an excuse to write a paper on this movie for a while now, as it's in my top 3 favorite movies. Appreciate the comment!
Good video, but what does gender have to do with this?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think ash is exploring what it means for him to be a man
From what I’ve gathered, I think being a “wild animal” like Mr Fox says is meant to represent masculinity
@@LokiTheFool Then are you calling men 'wild animals'?
@@LokiTheFool Then are you calling men 'wild animals'?
Bro wtf are you yapping about.
I get the angle of Fox and comparing his animalistic desires to the masculine role in human society. But literally where did the gender exploration angle come from? I always thought his character/arc was about seeking aprobation and meeting the expectations of his father, and in a more subjective level, an understanding of autism. But if one line from his bully is all it takes to make his character be a representation of gender fluidity, idk what to tell you
It's like you know what they're saying but you're just shy of getting it
Jesus calm down on the big words, it’s making it less clear than less specific small words
It was pretty understandable so idk sounds like a skill issue
@@skyr5247 Fair enough
Honestly I wish we could go back to a time when a man was a man, and a woman was a woman, and people got married, stay married, and had lots of kids. Wasn't always easy, but good things in life aren't supposed to be easy.
You're looking at things with rose tinted glasses. Forced marriages, domestic abuse. Stop rejecting people for who they want to be and embrace the modern
There were gay people but they weren't as open
Nobody is making anyone stop doing that lol it just isn't good for everyone, and there's more freedom to choose not to do or be either of those things
??????????????
wtf is this vid