Videographer here, the red tint on the HW4 lenses are infra red light filters. Filtering out IR will get you better saturation (color) and better black levels (darker shadows). But having the extra IR light data might be useful for AI, just not for us humans who only see from Red to Violet.
@@miguellopez3392 Its just a hunch. In his video there was a night shot, the HW3 picked up a little more data (with gain). The results was a weak night vision.
@@miguellopez3392 IR picked up by a camera has nothing to do with thermal imaging. It's part of the natural light spectrum of the sun (and other stars) which we just don't see - which is called near-infrared spectrum. Thermal imaging uses the far-infrared spectrum.
The idea at Tesla is that AI should be able to drive and make decisions using the same visual data humans use, therefore no far red or infrared inputs, and no lidar, and no ultrasound...
The red tint is actually a more advanced lens coating. It's used in many camera lenses and has nothing to due with tinting for color correction. The coatings help reduce flare and "ghosting". It was introduced decades ago by Pentax who called it "Super Multicoating" and went through many iterations and was eventually named "Ghostless". The red tint became more noticeable in the later versions. Pretty much all high end lens manufacturers followed suit. The original funding and use was via the Japanese military for improved surveillance optics.
It's important to realize that what you see on the screen is not necessarily what a camera sees. There are going to be software based image filters that take the camera input and make it look better, the original videos can be yellowish from both hw3 and hw4 and one was simply shipped together with a different filter stack so it looks better on screen. Tesla on purpose disabled the hardware filters that many cameras have so they don't lose information coming from the camera for the autonomy needs.
Nice job showing the changes and comparisons. That must have taken a lot of time. Also, thanks for including the most recent improvements on the HW3 images with the update.
@DirtyTesla On the dirt roads, you are seeing major pixelation due to compression artifacts. The same thing happens when they shoot coffetti during major sports games.
The "boxy" distortion (and banding in dark areas) is an artefact of overcompression in the mpeg compression used to save the video files. Basically, Tesla was trying to save the video at too small a bitrate in HW3. Maybe they had storage limits or bus bandwidth limits, or available cpu limits for the low priority task of compressing all the cameras for the final save?
Glad you tested at night. RCB (Red-Clear-Blue) on HW3 vs RGB (Red-Green-Blue) on HW4 clearly shows their pros and cons at night. You get better colors with RGB, but you get better dynamic range with RCB. A higher res RCB camera would've been interesting.
the blocking you saw on the dirt road is from the low light sections due to how the video was compressed. hw4 my best guess is that its better at handling compression in realtime. this happens too with other youtubers who live stream off their computers. depending on their gpus used, the videos can look blocky at low light or black scenes. same can be scene with compressed movies in dark scenes.
Strangely, I liked the repeater cameras in the previous version of FSD beta. Now, at night and sunrise I'm seeing weird purple colors, where before at least it was a consistent yellow tint. I feel like the aesthetic change is doing more harm than good in some lighting conditions, where I'd prefer to have the older (closer to native?) camera colors.
Something strange on my Tesla Y (Late Jan. 2023 production). Front and repeaters are from HW3 but inside and back cameras definitely are from HW4! Is it possible?
Is there any particular reason for rear vehicle cameras, or at least Tesla rear cams, being 360 cams? I believe this is probably the only thing I don't like about the cameras. The wider and clearer view is awesome.
3:49 that's video compression that tesla does so the video doesn't take up as much space, the raw footage tesla is using for autopilot/FSD is likely uncompressed and much detailed
I am curious, for the repeater cameras at night you showed that if you manually raise the brightness for the HW4 video, it shows the details in the shadows that HW3 shows. But I wonder how close in clarity the HW3 output will be if you manually lower the brightness so it looks similar to the HW4 output.
The FOV of the HW3 rear view camera seems to be cut off by the square shape on the screen. Maybe if that “window” was a bit bigger you could see more to the sides ?
The backup camera is a different type of camera sensor which is why the colors look different. Tesla is emulating that style on the repeater cameras through software tricks
Something i noticed is my hw4 model y do not drine into the sun as well as my model 3 2019, hw2.5. Can yiu test and see if it's just fsd beta on hw 2.5 carrrying the weight and both cameras suck at drives inro the sunlight or.... Hw4 is worse than older cameras when if comes to driving into the sun with autopilot on.
Something curious I noticed on hw3 is my repeater cameras is on 11.4.7 they have a red tint to them when the sun is harsh. The tint goes away as soon as the sun does, almost like they added a filter for blown out conditions
The HAL 9000, the T-800 Terminator, the Cylons from the OG Battlestar Galactica, Locutus' cybernetic 'eye,' are all red. So why shouldn't the cameras on the newest AI-capable Tesla have evil red AI eyes?
Is there raw data that shows the color spectrum available from the new HW4 cameras? Thinking it may be imaging material in the NIR spectrum that ain’t visualized in the display (of course shifter into a human eye enabled wavelengths), but available for the FSD computer to “see”.
Iowa Tesla Guy has a video on the camera improvement for HW 3, "Did Tesla Just Upgrade My Camera Quality For Free? - FSD BETA 11.4.7 " and I have to agree (I have FSD Beta 11.4.7, 8/30/2023, on my November, 2021 Model S). He has a bit of an analysis of why he thinks it got improved.
@3:30 MPG bandwidth-limitation pixelation. Yeah HW3 doesn't seem to allow enough bandwidth for MPEG encoding, and scenes with a lot of detail and motion- eg forests w/ leaves, or very textured roads- are just a huge mess of large pixel blurs. Just not enough bandwidth to encode all the detail properly, at least teslacam recordings (I assume the AP/FSD computer gets raw uncompressed data). So this improvement, is likely more advanced encoding and/or higher bandwidth/larger video file sizes... need to have really fast USB/SD memory cards, and yes uses more storage space! But, good trade-off, as means the video is actually usable. I assume for improved HW3 repeater cameras, they also changed the color filter/processing to make it more realistic, too... and improved bandwidth/detail there too
Have you tried to switch out one of the side camera’s in the 2023 model and put it in the 2021 to see if it works? Just curious because if it does we can order side camera’s for our older Model Y’s and use them for that better side view.
@@andrewcochran4389 yeah it’s weird, it’s like what it was 7 months ago, it won’t get into the turning lane in time and cutting the corners way too much
I’m wondering if the delay of FSD Beta on HW4 is because all the training was with HW3 and the images a don’t line up/compare quite right. So I am wondering if the need to gather enough HW4 video/data to re-train FSD Beta for HW4 equipment
You know when you say repeatedly that the quality of the rear camera is not that different.. it's absolutely fucking huge. I mean look at how soft the lens is on HW3, and how much chromatic aberrations there are. It's night and day difference. It's the most difference between any of these arguably.
With HW4 you need a better write speed USB drive, most can not handle the write speed needed for this high pixel video live/continues recordings. Many USB's have built in ram buffer and only the first GB or so has the fast write speed. A regular 10 or 20 USD/EUR usb druve wont work(reliably) anymore and you need to get a good one meaning double the price for the same ammount of space.
Is there any added delay/laytency with the new “color tint correction” in the newly updated HW3? I was thinking that the added image processing should cause a small delay?
Yes, the new cameras look very good with my new Model Y. They look better now after I got Tesla 2023.25.8 update. With this update, the turn signal videos are brighter and more colorful. Yesterday I just got updated to 2023.26.9. take care.
Hardware 4 cams cost at most $2.40. Slight increase than HW 3 cams. Not 4 k. Barely better than 720p. These HW4 are so chintzy, not used in Obama smart phones…. Priceless.
I’m thinking I like the old fashion 3 better because it seems unnecessary wasting effort on esthetics I don’t watch when I’m driving. I know the computer is watching the aesthetics but I’m sure not! Agree?
Videographer here, the red tint on the HW4 lenses are infra red light filters. Filtering out IR will get you better saturation (color) and better black levels (darker shadows). But having the extra IR light data might be useful for AI, just not for us humans who only see from Red to Violet.
How would the self driving benefit from heat sensors?
@@miguellopez3392 Its just a hunch. In his video there was a night shot, the HW3 picked up a little more data (with gain). The results was a weak night vision.
@@miguellopez3392 IR picked up by a camera has nothing to do with thermal imaging. It's part of the natural light spectrum of the sun (and other stars) which we just don't see - which is called near-infrared spectrum.
Thermal imaging uses the far-infrared spectrum.
The idea at Tesla is that AI should be able to drive and make decisions using the same visual data humans use, therefore no far red or infrared inputs, and no lidar, and no ultrasound...
@@eliotcougarthis is just stupid, humans are pretty crap drivers on average, why try to emulate that…
The red tint is actually a more advanced lens coating. It's used in many camera lenses and has nothing to due with tinting for color correction. The coatings help reduce flare and "ghosting". It was introduced decades ago by Pentax who called it "Super Multicoating" and went through many iterations and was eventually named "Ghostless". The red tint became more noticeable in the later versions. Pretty much all high end lens manufacturers followed suit. The original funding and use was via the Japanese military for improved surveillance optics.
It's important to realize that what you see on the screen is not necessarily what a camera sees. There are going to be software based image filters that take the camera input and make it look better, the original videos can be yellowish from both hw3 and hw4 and one was simply shipped together with a different filter stack so it looks better on screen. Tesla on purpose disabled the hardware filters that many cameras have so they don't lose information coming from the camera for the autonomy needs.
Nice job showing the changes and comparisons. That must have taken a lot of time. Also, thanks for including the most recent improvements on the HW3 images with the update.
Thx for putting time to update your video to new version, it was a lot of work to do.
I have since the 1970ies the same visual hardware in the sockets of my head
@DirtyTesla On the dirt roads, you are seeing major pixelation due to compression artifacts. The same thing happens when they shoot coffetti during major sports games.
The "boxy" distortion (and banding in dark areas) is an artefact of overcompression in the mpeg compression used to save the video files.
Basically, Tesla was trying to save the video at too small a bitrate in HW3. Maybe they had storage limits or bus bandwidth limits, or available cpu limits for the low priority task of compressing all the cameras for the final save?
Glad you tested at night. RCB (Red-Clear-Blue) on HW3 vs RGB (Red-Green-Blue) on HW4 clearly shows their pros and cons at night. You get better colors with RGB, but you get better dynamic range with RCB. A higher res RCB camera would've been interesting.
Such a great video. Very interesting seeing the differences.
the blocking you saw on the dirt road is from the low light sections due to how the video was compressed. hw4 my best guess is that its better at handling compression in realtime. this happens too with other youtubers who live stream off their computers. depending on their gpus used, the videos can look blocky at low light or black scenes. same can be scene with compressed movies in dark scenes.
Thanks for the great video!! Nice to know what's improved in my new X cameras. LOVE the new X.
I got the update on 30th Aug. I was going to leave you a comment about the camera color change. I'm glad you noticed.
I'm glad they worked on hw3 repeater color. I thought that was something that made the car look old. I'll wait for hw5 before selling my tesla 😂
Strangely, I liked the repeater cameras in the previous version of FSD beta. Now, at night and sunrise I'm seeing weird purple colors, where before at least it was a consistent yellow tint. I feel like the aesthetic change is doing more harm than good in some lighting conditions, where I'd prefer to have the older (closer to native?) camera colors.
Not for human eyes for future AI updates
Something strange on my Tesla Y (Late Jan. 2023 production). Front and repeaters are from HW3 but inside and back cameras definitely are from HW4! Is it possible?
Is there any particular reason for rear vehicle cameras, or at least Tesla rear cams, being 360 cams? I believe this is probably the only thing I don't like about the cameras. The wider and clearer view is awesome.
Thank you for your video very informative
It’s been a few years could you update us on your solar and how it’s doing? Thanks
I hope Tesla starts including video editing software in their car as well.
3:49 that's video compression that tesla does so the video doesn't take up as much space, the raw footage tesla is using for autopilot/FSD is likely uncompressed and much detailed
You could have used the Service menu to show the B-pillar cams
I am curious, for the repeater cameras at night you showed that if you manually raise the brightness for the HW4 video, it shows the details in the shadows that HW3 shows. But I wonder how close in clarity the HW3 output will be if you manually lower the brightness so it looks similar to the HW4 output.
Unfortunately the noise wouldn't be going anywhere, so not something I can really do
Nicely done comparison.
Red tint = Blade Runner! 😂
The FOV of the HW3 rear view camera seems to be cut off by the square shape on the screen. Maybe if that “window” was a bit bigger you could see more to the sides ?
Thank you for the video!!!!!
Million dollar question, have you noticed if phantom braking is improved with HW4? That's my biggest complaint with Autopilot.
It seems fine so far, but no FSD beta yet
@@DirtyTesla yeah good point. Not an apples to apples comparison unless they’re on the same software.
Great comparison!! 👏👏👏
would love to see if someone can upgrade to hw4... i understand the wiring harness has changed
HW3 (new) should use the same color filter on the backup and front cameras as on the repeaters now.
The backup camera is a different type of camera sensor which is why the colors look different. Tesla is emulating that style on the repeater cameras through software tricks
Something i noticed is my hw4 model y do not drine into the sun as well as my model 3 2019, hw2.5. Can yiu test and see if it's just fsd beta on hw 2.5 carrrying the weight and both cameras suck at drives inro the sunlight or.... Hw4 is worse than older cameras when if comes to driving into the sun with autopilot on.
Something curious I noticed on hw3 is my repeater cameras is on 11.4.7 they have a red tint to them when the sun is harsh. The tint goes away as soon as the sun does, almost like they added a filter for blown out conditions
Not sure why you aren't noticing the diff between the back-up cams. Obviously better resolution. 12:46 much clearer than 12:36.
The HAL 9000, the T-800 Terminator, the Cylons from the OG Battlestar Galactica, Locutus' cybernetic 'eye,' are all red. So why shouldn't the cameras on the newest AI-capable Tesla have evil red AI eyes?
I leave for working before sunrise so I noticed that exposure was higher. They see better at night.
I bought my Model Y last September and it’s a 2023, and it looks like the video from HW4 incl the rear view cam and interior with the red lens.
Is there raw data that shows the color spectrum available from the new HW4 cameras?
Thinking it may be imaging material in the NIR spectrum that ain’t visualized in the display (of course shifter into a human eye enabled wavelengths), but available for the FSD computer to “see”.
But are they going to replace my HW3 m3 with HW4, since I bought FSD back in 2018?
It doesn't sound like it
Iowa Tesla Guy has a video on the camera improvement for HW 3, "Did Tesla Just Upgrade My Camera Quality For Free? - FSD BETA 11.4.7 " and I have to agree (I have FSD Beta 11.4.7, 8/30/2023, on my November, 2021 Model S). He has a bit of an analysis of why he thinks it got improved.
@3:30 MPG bandwidth-limitation pixelation. Yeah HW3 doesn't seem to allow enough bandwidth for MPEG encoding, and scenes with a lot of detail and motion- eg forests w/ leaves, or very textured roads- are just a huge mess of large pixel blurs. Just not enough bandwidth to encode all the detail properly, at least teslacam recordings (I assume the AP/FSD computer gets raw uncompressed data). So this improvement, is likely more advanced encoding and/or higher bandwidth/larger video file sizes... need to have really fast USB/SD memory cards, and yes uses more storage space!
But, good trade-off, as means the video is actually usable.
I assume for improved HW3 repeater cameras, they also changed the color filter/processing to make it more realistic, too... and improved bandwidth/detail there too
This is a good comparison.
Thank you 🙏
Have you tried to switch out one of the side camera’s in the 2023 model and put it in the 2021 to see if it works? Just curious because if it does we can order side camera’s for our older Model Y’s and use them for that better side view.
Na they can't be swapped
Just got my FSD Beta back on my HW 4 and boy is it wonky!!
Mine is better than on my old X.
@@andrewcochran4389 yeah it’s weird, it’s like what it was 7 months ago, it won’t get into the turning lane in time and cutting the corners way too much
I’m wondering if the delay of FSD Beta on HW4 is because all the training was with HW3 and the images a don’t line up/compare quite right. So I am wondering if the need to gather enough HW4 video/data to re-train FSD Beta for HW4 equipment
@@hawkyyy42 wouldnt surprise- me, today I stopped at a stop sign 15 ft in front of it, lol
You know when you say repeatedly that the quality of the rear camera is not that different.. it's absolutely fucking huge. I mean look at how soft the lens is on HW3, and how much chromatic aberrations there are. It's night and day difference. It's the most difference between any of these arguably.
Nice informative video 👍
With HW4 you need a better write speed USB drive, most can not handle the write speed needed for this high pixel video live/continues recordings.
Many USB's have built in ram buffer and only the first GB or so has the fast write speed.
A regular 10 or 20 USD/EUR usb druve wont work(reliably) anymore and you need to get a good one meaning double the price for the same ammount of space.
What would you recommend?SSD or USB?
Is there a way to upgrade to HW4 from HW3?
Yeah.... Buy a new Tesla... 😂
I was told for $2k you can get a mcu upgrade.
Elon said no... but who know in the future... hoping for a possible maybe.
@@andrewcochran4389😂😂
Useful
👍
5:24 we all know red tinted camera in an AI machine is never a good thing...Right? Right?
Does FSD use the rear camera? My guess is no because they didn't protect it from water, dirt, or freezing.
It does, main case I've noticed is for moving out of passing lane when someone is approaching
they just updated the HW3 cameras. The quality looks almost the same as the HW4
Great video! I don’t suppose you could snake a camera to look for radar behind the front bumper?
I tried to look but I don't see anything there
Would be a little cool if ya cleaned off the cameras before testing too tho
What's the benefit of the fish-eye lens for the rear camera ? If it's of any good, why not doing the same for the front camera ?
The front camera is in a housing that would block side views. There are also the B pillar cameras to look front/sideways.
Waiting for a software update for HW4 to make the image quality better…
12:50 better cams are helpful for vision only
How can you draw with your front cameras on
Is hw4 only for US? I just picked up a brand new European made Y and I don't see red tint in cameras
HW4 can get FSD Beta now, did you get it?
Still waiting :/
Pray 3 times a day and offer a young goat.... Actually I asked in the Service tab in the app.
Is there any added delay/laytency with the new “color tint correction” in the newly updated HW3?
I was thinking that the added image processing should cause a small delay?
Nothing that I can notice
And was the HW3 car with Intel or with Ryzen chip? Ryzen chip should have no problem with the additional image processing added to HW3 cameras.
and now we got hiiighland, peep the bumper cam
HW4 = Terminator eyes
Looks like they turned off the sepia filter on hw3.
LETS GOO!
Dose your new Y have cameras in the headlights?
Nope, no teslas do. A bumper camera is coming to Cybertruck and might come to others as well
@@DirtyTesla okay i think that's what people meant then, and a front bumper camera makes more sense now. thx
I was gunna get a model y soon but I’m just gunna wait for juniper, if I buy now I would just kick myself later
Yes, the new cameras look very good with my new Model Y. They look better now after I got Tesla 2023.25.8 update. With this update, the turn signal videos are brighter and more colorful. Yesterday I just got updated to 2023.26.9.
take care.
My model 3 plaid is HW3 and seems great!
There is no model 3 plaid
Yeah sure.. lol
HAL?
Have you been pumping iron? 💪🏻
ive 1tb setup for recording
That's definitely help
Hardware 4 cams cost at most $2.40. Slight increase than HW 3 cams. Not 4 k. Barely better than 720p. These HW4 are so chintzy, not used in Obama smart phones…. Priceless.
Model y has HW 3.5
Difference
3.5 new cameras new ECU etc
4.0 same as 3.5 + HD radar only model s/x
Can I upgrade my M3 to Hardware 4?
Cyber trucks will have HW4 right?
Yes it might be better then hw4 tho
Yup. Most cars coming off the line are HW4.
omg, you didn't black out your license plate numbers. the world is going to come to an end.
I’m thinking I like the old fashion 3 better because it seems unnecessary wasting effort on esthetics I don’t watch when I’m driving. I know the computer is watching the aesthetics but I’m sure not! Agree?
english?
first