Defending The Classic Sonic Ret-Con | Sonic X Shadow Generations Discussion
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ก.ค. 2024
- One of the most controversial things about Sonic Forces was the ret-con made about Classic Sonic being "from another dimension" rather than being from the past and being a younger version of Modern Sonic. Well here I provide (a bit of flimsy) evidence and claims that give this ret-con just a bit more merit than everybody gives it. Stay tuned for more opinionatied Sonic videos as I have A LOT of catching up to do when it comes to voicing my opinions about Sonic.
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Okay. Here's what I came up with on my own channel.
The big question to me was why does Mania happen in the main timeline when Sonic doesn't remember Forces which their events are tied to Mania. My only thought is that maybe Modern Sonic went through the Bad Ending events of Mania, and when Eggman uses the Time Eater in generations, he does change the timeline in affecting which ending happens in Mania, changing it to the Good Ending.
Now I would like to clarify what happens when this happens. I think that instead of creating a new timeline (which somehow apparently doesn't happen) or any Back to the Future esque effects, the real thing that happens is that memories are changed/added.
And this is happening during the events of Generations. Sonic is getting the past memories of the adventure as its happening. As we got to talk as to how these zones of time work.
Ever wonder why Silver never just... comes back immediately after fixing a mess, and only comes to the point where the cataclysm is starting? Well that's because the Past, Present and Future are more like places on a line and the effects of one time affect the present/future or whatever.
And this can be why, when Gens and Forces happen Sonic, is not remembering anything at the beginning and continues to remember as it continues on.
@@heftyrumble Ok first off, the 1st sentence implies that Forces happens before Mania which doesn’t line up at all as it was clearly setup that Mania happens BEFORE or during Forces.
2nd off I actually do like the idea of Sonic gaining the memories of the locations as he goes through them as it explains why Modern Sonic/Tails don’t remember the plot of Generations happening before.
I have a theory that both things that these sonics experience will be the same thing but that when modern sonic was young he used to look like classic and then grew up, but that classic will do the same but never change shape or form, sense we never see a modern looking character in the special classic sonic IDW comics.
When the Tails say that they're travelling through time and space, I don't think they're talking about dimensions when referring to space. In physics, both time and space are the same layer of reality, so I feel that's probably what they're talking about. You can't travel through space without traveling through time, and vice versa. Time and space are technically the same thing, which is why we sometimes call it space--time. I feel when modern Tails refers to classic Sonic as being from another dimension, he's moreso talking about his specific timeline. In theoretical time travel, a popular idea is that interacting with the past splits the universe in two. You create a new universe where that interaction took place. I think that classic Sonic comes from a place that was once the past, but became a different dimension, since the events of Sonic Generations would essentially "level up" his world from being a mere point in the past, to being a completely different universe. A universe where Sonic experienced the events of Generations in his youth, rather than living his life normally. After Eggman traveled to Classic Sonic's world, it was no longer the past, but an alternate world, which means any events after Eggman's arrival would be completely separate from the Modern Sonic world. This would explain why the modern characters don't remember the events of Generations.
@@atablevendetta1429 (For the 1st half of your comment talking about the definition of time and space) Yeah I did figure that people would probably point something like this out when recording and that’s why I said that “space” can include other dimensions.
(For the 2nd half talking about this game making 2 separate timelines and making that point in the past its own dimension) I pretty much DID say that happened as I said that Generations could’ve affected the Classic timeline so much that things like the Adventure games never happened and it’s why they’re still in their “classic” designs to this day. And that timeline is so radically different from the “Modern” timeline that you could really consider it it’s own dimension.
When robotnik said he was dedicating his life to forget it he never said he won’t do it and robotnik doesn’t listen to feedback as you know he is a massive egotist along with eggman so eggman won’t admit his past failures
Knowing eggman, robotnik would still try to do these plans in the future like reviving chaos but events in station square may play differently
Remember in superstars robotnik tried to revive and succeeded in reviving the black dragon, robotnik will 100% would want to revive chaos since he will egotistically think he can do better
I think Forces' "another dimension" line is mistranslated due to how the Japanese script worded that line, using "another world" which can mean the past. That being said, I just saw that in a video taking about the Japanese script, so it could be wrong.
That being said, great video! Time travel shenanigans are always hard to make sense of, and you did a really good job!
@@justagreenguy Ya know I did think that at one point. But I’d like to think we’ve long since moved passed the era of poor video game translations/localizations.
I started to explain my whole theory with Generations creating the split but you already touched on it. I think the way to look at things is to see it all as "Post Time Eater" in both realities from now on. The Time Eater started eating from 2 different points in time at once and everything got spit back out at the same time so that Classic and Modern now happen in parallel. You can say Classic reality was pulled forward in time or Modern was pulled back. Either way the effect is the same. The 2 Sonics share a past in everything before the Time Eater arrived in Classic time. From that point on, Classic's future is not Modern's past.
The part about the design changes though. Animal's fur color can change pretty drastically over time. I think my current cat was purely black and now its maybe 30-40% brown fur. Its actually kinda common. But its actually more a viewer perception thing I think. Classic Sonic's eyes are black to us but that doesn't mean they aren't Green in canon. If they were made green then everyone would have a fit tbh.
Similarly, consider this. Black and White movies weren't black and white for the actors or the characters in the movie.
@@GoldScale57 This is actually a pretty similar sentiment to another comment that was left on here. And I actually agree with it. And it’s a sentiment that I pretty much made in the video itself by saying that the events of Generations affected the Classic timeline so much that it basically became it’s own separate dimension because the events that took place there are so different.
I actually believe this retcon is in favor of your words, that Classic Sonic's world changed so drastically compared to Modern's that it's possible that his world is basically a separate dimension compared to Modern Sonic's, and I think SEGA hints at this because they created the pillar system for both Sonics, each game having a story that seems different compared to the each and others, so I personally think your theory has a lot of weight to it.
@@ClassicSonic_TH Oh thanks!
@@ToonyTails You're welcome.
Comment for algorithm.
@@Bugsnott Thank you!
2. words
Time
Paradox
The only think I hate about the space time dimension travel nonsense are the story implications they should have had in Forces, but didn't.
I don't think the general idea is bad, especially for Generations since it was an anniversary title. The problem to me was the execution of it in Forces specifically. There was a lot wrong with Forces, Classic Sonic being there is one of them.
@@MxS1996 Yeah now that I think about it, there was a HUGE missed opportunity there. If the phantom ruby can bring in things from other dimensions and timelines, we could’ve had things from the comics or the older cartoon shows or even Sonic X! Nothing was off the table at that point! They could’ve brought in Boom Sonic and Eggman to actually pay off his prominence on the 25th anniversary poster. Although I can see why they didn’t do that as it probably would’ve made the story too convoluted.
@@ToonyTails I'm moreso complaining about how, for another entry in the series, Sonic's friends had to take a backseat in a story where they should have been more active in it, especially Tails, just to have an excuse to bring Classic Sonic in.
You could take classic Sonic out and it would not have effected the story at all and in fact could have made the developers push to create what could have been one of the best Sonic games.
Instead, it is the living embodiment of "this game is for babies" in the most derogatory way and that sucks
@@MxS1996 Yeah apparently I heard that Classic Sonic was a very last minute addition just to tie it in with Sonic Mania and get a few more sales. But I still like the idea of multiple Sonic’s teaming up together and I kinda hope they try this idea for a 3rd time but add in another Sonic. Preferably Boom or Movie Sonic.
@@ToonyTails I'm very mixed on that. The challenge would be present different play styles from each other, which is what allowed Generations to work the way it did, but still ending up 80% 2-D sidescrolling, which I'm very much bias against. Classic Sonic is fine for those that want him, but he is defined by a 2-D experience, so it's unfair to have him and then make 2-D sections in levels with Modern Sonic and Oc Player Character (in Forces)/other Sonics (which I don't understand how or why that would work, but I wouldn't mind the idea I'd the story was good).
Story would be all kinds of convoluted, but it's a Sonic game, so as long as he can go fast, I don't believe people will care too much. The gameplay however is the make or break point and if it isn't good, people won't like it.
@@MxS1996 The issue of Generations being 80% 2D could’ve been solved if they simply didn’t give Modern Sonic any 2D sections. And other Sonic’s could play like a specific type of game. Like Boom Sonic could be more combat and puzzle-focused and Movie Sonic could play like the Adventure games. The plot could be that the 3 universes are clashing together because the phantom ruby could be going haywire. It’s not the most unique or original multiverse plot but at least we got something to work with.
24 views, deserves 240,000
I think you have a good argument, but you’re thinking about it too much. Because you’re talking about a blue hedgehog that can go faster than the speed of sound and a yellow fox that can fly with two tails. So just enjoy the game and don’t think about the story (or how little of a story it has)
@@leozhang8874 Yeah I know, and if you watched the video you’d know that I addressed that at the end of it. I like over-analyzing things sometimes.