He is the weirdest companion. He rejects the Talk To command and he politely rejects you managing his inventory. At the last leg of the final quest of Honest Hearts where you fight back against the White-Legs, he bounces and gets to Salts-Upon-Wounds before you leaving a trail of some dead White-Legs for you to follow.
@@skhighglitch4217 Okay, Ulysses Walked right into that one. But most of the time he ends up being in control of the conversations until the very end of the DLC where Courier 6 use their Conversational Magic to convince him that bombing other places are bad.
@@readlater8962 if by being in control you mean he nonstop rambles about the Divide and history and the Divide and the Bear and the Divide and the Bull and the Divide.
Probably that's the very reason why the pile is neverending. He is so strong willed that his lack of grasp for logistics warps reality itself. What he can't comprehend, reality can't process.
@@concept5631Partially , man is almost entirely responsible for their situation. His knowledge of their languages , customs , and religious beliefs are the reason he was hired by the followers to accompany Edward on his intial journey into the east. And are the reasons Edward eventually became Caesar.
A little funny how despite knowing little about Lanius, Joshua’s assessment is correct. Lanius just wants to fight, and the Courier can point out through Barter or Speech that if he tried to continue the conquest as-is, the Legion would fall apart.
You can also ask Joshua advice for “fighting” Legate, which will open up a new diologue option for him to surrender without needing speech or barter at 100
Except that it isn’t really, Lanius is following Caesar’s orders to take over the Mojave without questioning them because that’s his job - but by forcing Lanius to actually think about how the Legion simply isn’t strong enough to hold both the Mojave and their existing territory it’s clear that when he’s not blindly following Caesar he’s quite capable of looking at the bigger picture. It’s also good to remember that it’s Caesar who began the foolish conquest to begin with - he desperately wanted to have his Rome before he died from his undiagnosed cancer.
@@williaml840 The conquest wasn't "foolish", it was merely part of his imitation of Caesar - whose strategy was expanding Rome so nobody would question him so as to not interfere in an ongoing war, and/or threaten the influx of loot and slaves enriching Rome. Basically, after Caesar, that's pretty much the only way that Rome could be stabilized - loot enough by expanding borders to keep people happy and potential rivals paid off. Any setback in that and you're poised for civil war.
@@ohauss It was foolish, the Legion was overextending itself which left the Legion’s already captured territory undermanned. Edward also isn’t trying to conquer New Vegas just for its wealth - in fact most of the valuable stuff in New Vegas is technology which is useless to him - he want’s to make The Strip his Capital because he believes he needs it to reform the Legion into an actual government - which is a completely different scenario from Julius Caesar who was trying to increase his influence over an already existing government. Additionally, the Legion conquers more for the purpose of increasing its manpower than it is for the purpose of collecting wealth.
@@williaml840 Way to miss the point. Wealth was not an end but a means for Julius Caesar. And the Legion conquers so that it has something to do. Since fighting is the only thing it does well, in the absence of an external enemy, it would invariably turn upon itself - much like historical Rome does. As for the Strip is a capital, that like much of what they made Caesar say was rather weak writing. If the war couldn't claim the strip, if nukes couldn't conquer the Strip, without knowing every bit and piece about why that was, no sane person would believe they could just walk in and take over. And if Caesar wants a capital, what's left of Phoenix, Tucson, Yuma or Flagstaff would do. He'd have the manpower to rebuild. Supposedly, the Legion doesn't care about bells, whistles and showmanship, so what point does the Strip have?
Joshua Graham knew Ceaser when he was just Edward. Joshua served as the Legate for 30 years, helping Ceaser build his empire. He gave everything to that man, doing horrible things all in the name of the Legion. And for his loyalty, he was set on fire and thrown into the Grand Canyon, his name stricken from the Legion he helped create, chased by Frumentari assassins, and his people, the Mormons of New Caanan, were massacred under Ceaser's orders. I dont think anyone knows Ceaser better than Joshua. If Joshua says Ceaser's death is a good thing, it is. If he says the Legion can't survive without Ceaser, it can't.
Silus (the captured soldier in camp mccarren) makes this point too. Its kind of insane to punish your soldiers with death for failing. All youre doing is getting rid of competent leaders.
@@pheo4156 failure is inherent to the nature of evil. Some sick - ass weirdos love to call totalitarian regimes "efficient", but the only things they're actually efficient at are propaganda, torture for minor offenses and creating institutions that compete with each other for power. Such a model of state is it's own worst enemy, because it will devour itself eventually.
There is something so fascinating about Joshua, the way he's so smooth, clean, meticulous with every movement and action. And yet, it never feels off putting. Usually when a character is this graceful with their mannerisms it's a sign of psychopathic perfectionism. But I never get that feeling with Joshua. He genuinely seems to just be that thoughtful of his most rudimentary skills. What I'm saying is that I like him.
Most characters that seem overly perfect came off as narcissistic and psychopathic. Joshua gives the impression of a man of commitment and focus, pardon the reference. He doesn't seem like someone who wants to appear perfect, but someone who wants to do things the best he can do them.
His movements are ritualistic rather than meticulous. He doesn't perform an action for the sake of perfection, but because the action deserves to be executed perfectly. He's meditative, soft spoken, doesn't really brag, and anything that can be taken as a boast is turned into a lesson against pride. He's a wise old sage in the truest sense, someone who's wisdom comes from reflection on a checkered past, and years of contemplation on his mistakes.
Well the reasons to fear or trust him are kind of the same. He is a meticulous maniac, but since he went through his redemption you trust him to be a meticulous maniac in being civil too.
The whole NV campaign I felt like Cesar's death was insignificant. This, however, lets me know that fortunately the Legion is as good as gone afterall.
@@federicoricca2512 But the whole point is, they won't be able to hold the Legion together like Ceasar can. They lack his charisma, his intelligence. They're followers, they lack the insight to the future that he had.
@@Amberion Vulpes absolutely has the charisma and intelligence to rule the Legion, as demonstrated in his use of an NCR informant as his own informant, his strategic mind (he skipped the chain of command and was able to lead his conterberium )? to victory) or the conquest of Dry Wells, where he only used charisma to convince the Twisted Hairs into joining the Legion. On the other hand, Lanius has a reputation that can be turned into obedience, he even becomes the Caesar if Edward dies.
@@federicoricca2512 I dont think its the capability to lead, rather the ambition to, caesar has something to achieve while the rest simply follows him, despite being fully capable of leading theyd probably fulfill caesar's goal when he dies, but after that the legion has nothing to go with
Reminder that if you talk to the most intelligent characters in New Vegas that understands how a governing body functions and what it needs, they all say Joshua was the only potential successor to Caesar that wouldn’t outright fail. And that same Joshua admits that he couldn’t do it. The biggest problem is Caesar goes on about how Rome was successful because it’s people devoted themselves to the idea of Rome itself. But he ignored that. The legion devote themselves to Caesar, Lanius especially has no real loyalty to the legion itself. Once Caesar dies, there’s going to be an inevitable power vacuum left behind. From there people will start claiming that the current Caesar is straying from the original Caesar’s ideals and goals. That’ll lead to infighting and rebellions until the legion collapses or reforms under a completely different ideology. It’ll be chaos and no amount of “actually Lanius is pretty smart and the legion’s territory is super safe” will prevent that.
The courier is the heir, notice how all of ncr's faults gets fixed only when the courier comes along. Same with the legion, except their only fault is not having a suitable replacement of caesae
@@kanorcubes329 that’s a bigger issue than you think it is. Not having a proper heir means the moment Caesar dies there’s going to be a power vacuum. Now in the game, if he dies and you’re with the Legion, Lanius does take charge but even then higher ups like Vulpes doubt his ability to lead. The worst case scenario is that the Legion just collapses immediately in 5 years because Lanius doesn’t know the logistics on how to run an empire. The most likely scenario is the Legion fractures, loyalists to Lanius staying while Vulpes and the others who doubt him splinter off claiming that they’re the ones following Caesar’s will. The NCR’s problems are numerous but they’re like small cuts. Sure there’s a lot of them and it’s painful but you’re not going to die. With the Legion, their biggest problem is like a decapitation. Best case scenario, the body still shambles around like a zombie before collapsing.
The Legion followed the exact same doomed fate as Rome. Ceasar took control of a failing system with an iron fist, creating order at the price of over reliance on a single person. But because of the harsh total rule, the death of Ceasar means the death of the empire. The actual Roman empire took much longer to fall but met the same fate.
@@sparklepawz1185 wdym small cuts, the ncr is barely holding on to the mojave. I dont think you understand my point, if you play the legion walkthrough you'd see everythings laid out for you to watch unfold meanwhile NCR playthrough is you solving the NCR's problems especially if you play side quests. The only thing the NCR has on the legion was Silus with his knowledge of caesar's ailments which could turn the tides but even then you have to help the NCR to get it out of him. There's speculations of the courier being the heir, but its not explicitly said so assuming he's not and Lanius is. Empires don't die completely in 5 years, and Vulpes is frumentarii he won't "splinter off". At worst he'll assassinate Lanius and install a puppet emperor controlled by his faction.
@@kanorcubes329 that’s the Mojave, not California, the NCR’s heartland. Worst case scenario for the NCR is that they completely lose the Mojave and those in power get blamed, are forced to resign, and new leaders take their place because their system of democracy is basically just ours. Losing a president isn’t the end of the entire nation just like how if the president died in the US, the whole thing doesn’t just collapse. They have systems in place like we do. Also what do you mean they won’t splinter off? That’s literally what happened with old Rome. Why do you think before Rome completely collapsed it was split into east and west? Also that’s not how Vulpes is. I don’t want to explain the entire socio economic power structure of the legion in relation to real world nations but trust me, assassinating Lanius is the absolute last resort option and that’s only if Vulpes is completely disillusioned with the Legion which is an incredibly unlikely thing to happen. Plus empires do die quickly if they’re as shit as the legion. Hell one dynasty in China, the Sui, only lasted like 30 years and that’s with the systems they had in place. Also stop bringing the courier into this like they’re a magic fix all. Not only would the courier being in charge of any faction literally fix everything wrong with them due to how the game is written, the courier in lore isn’t even a full fledged member of either legion or NCR so even if, IF the courier legion ending is cannon, they literally cannot be the heir to the legion because that’s literally not how the legion works.
Josh: So... You killed the legion. Courier: Actually just Caesar... And a handful of guards on the way out of- Josh: Yeah like I said, you killed the legion.
Though most people see it as justice being served, the more politically-minded and calculating individuals just see it as a foolhardy, premature stunt that benefits no one in the long term. All it really does is antagonize the Legion, which could either ensure the violent destruction of all the Arizonian tribes, or galvanize them into giving it all they got in Hoover Dam. As how it should be. NV is a game where you can do what you want, so long as you can live with the consequences.
@@wojak-sensei6424 "the more politically-minded and calculating individuals" bro thinks hes robert greene, although i do agree with your last statement
@@wojak-sensei6424 Bro,once you kill ceaser the legion will die,moreso like a headless chicken or a man on fire, they'll be failing around wildy causing havoc for a while,but they'll die out eventually .
House said killing Caesar would make hardly any differences in Legionnaries' ranks. However, comparing that to Joshua's take, Joshua sees Caesar's death in the scope of human eyes, unlike House's who analyzed outcomes based upon numeric calculations and probabilities.
@@pandawandas This and also that even if Ceaser dies Legion will not just "oh wait Ceaser is dead let's go East", because that would be just stupid to hold a war with NCR for several years, and now back off just because Ceaser died.
The Legion is already there and will wage war, Caesar or no Caesar, so to him makes no difference. They will fall longer down the line though. He also has an interest in keeping the Legion at bay bc it forces the NCR to be diplomatic and not just throw soldiers at his gates and win over by sheer numbers.
They both say the same thing essentially. Joshua said that what follows is the last steps of a man who hasn't realised that he is walking dead. It means that the legion will still follow Caesars orders to attack the Mojave. But after that they will be fully dead with no real leader.
Joshua is talking about the impact of the death in the long run. House recognizes that Sallow’s death will destroy the legion but he’s more worried about the present. Caesar’s death has no immediate impact on the Mojave because Lanius and the Legion will still invade
Joshua is the most interesting and well thought out character in all of NV. Absolutely wish he could’ve become a permanent companion that would comment and input on everything as you go through the Mojave even getting to talk to Caesar during your first meet with him.
I feel like Joshua is being humble here to some extent, that or it is too horrifying for him to admit the reality of this for himself. He claims only Caesar could lead the Legion, but it's obvious that Joshua himself would have been more than capable of succeeding Caesar and might actually have elevated the Legion beyond him. In fact he is the only man who could succeed Caesar, keep the Legion together and expand it. What he may lack in logistics, he makes up in charisma and leadership. Joshua is great at organizing/training groups and building up structure. The EXACT THING that the Legion desperately needs, and that's no coincidence. He has elevated a mostly peaceful tribe to being able to resist the White Legs, for example. That takes effort. I think the fatal mistake of Caesar was not to overextend his expansion or elevating Vulpes and other schemey characters to power who will the moment he dies or is put in a coma start fighting over the Legion like dogs over a bone, his fatal mistake was burning Joshua and turning him away. I think this is the secret reason why Caesar does not wish to hear his name or talk of him, because he probably has some internal regret in how he punished Joshua and how it was a mistake. Doesn't want to be reminded of it.
There's a difference between having the potential/capacity to lead, and the desire and knowledge to take advantage of that. I have no doubt that Joshua could've led the Legion and kept it focused. But charisma, leadership, and military tactics are but a few of the many facets that are necessary for warfare. Logistics is crucial. Wars have been won and lost because logistics were crippled. You hit the right supply lines, production facilities, and information routes, or make it too costly, and you can secure regions with minimal losses to your own forces. There's more to it, of course, but Washington put it best when he said he can't lead an army on empty stomachs. Also, NV is a game whose main plot is literally about logistics and how that's tied into territory/expansion/nation-building. The Courier is emblematic of this: mail delivery and correspondence IS logistics. So is asset retrieval of stolen property. :P I dunno, you likely know all of this, I'm just feeling cheeky.
I can’t even explain what it is about Joshua, he’s simultaneously the most intimidating character I’ve really ever seen in a video game who is not necessarily friend or foe, and yet he’s a comforting presence at the same time. Maybe it’s because every word he speaks and action he takes seems well-prepared and thought out.
@@Hulbetley 1. By having a populous dedicated to the idea of Rome well before Julius Caesar ever came along. People were loyal to Rome, not Caesar, while most of the legion is loyal to Caesar, not the legion. Without Caesar to maintain their loyalty, infighting and a return to old tribal loyalties are likely to become the norm. We've already seen that old tribal identities haven't been fully erased, look at Ulysses. 2. Rome had established means of carrying on succession of power through the Senate, an idea which is completely anathema to the Legion, which rejects democracy as a vestige of the old world. Without any way of establishing a legitimate successor, anyone can claim the mantle of Caesar, which is not how you maintain a stable civilization. 3. Most importantly, Rome was a civilization built around sustaining itself and improving itself, where the people of Rome dedicated themselves to projects of societal improvement which they would never see realized in their own lifetimes. The Legion is a horde of warriors and slavers in cosplay. They are ultimately not similar, despite Caesar's attempts to bring more of Rome to his legion, all that's there is Rome's surface level traits, not the ones which made it actually function as a society. The Legion is not Rome. It's a bunch of wastelanders united around a charismatic dictator emulating that dictator's idea of Rome.
@@Hulbetley Many of the legion may be loyal to its ideals, but just as many have been pressed into service in order to avoid being wiped out at the hands of the legion. Those troops are likely to jump at the opportunity to destabilase it at the first opportunity. Again, look at Ulysses, look at Graham, the legion has not fully wiped out old tribal identities. I agree that Caesar is not stupid, but Caesar knows he is dying, he has not named a successor. If we assume he is not stupid, then we must assume he does not trust anyone else to take on his mantle. A large portion of the Legion is likely to unify under Lanius, true, but he has no head for grand strategy as the text of the game shows us. He throws away pointless lives chasing after the Enclave remnants which Caesar recognizes as a foolish endeavour if he survives. Lanius will not lead the legion to prosperity, and this alone would be likely to fracture his command without the likely re-emergence of other loyalties, or literally anyone else, say, Vulpes, claiming the right to rule thinking they could do it better. You describe Rome having revolts against emperors, and while this is true, I want to point out that Rome had SEVEN CENTURIES to build up loyalty to Rome above all else in its civilian populace before it even had its first emperor. Caesar has had a little over 30. These are not comparable in terms of long-term stability, we're dealing with something more on the time scale of Ghenghis Khan, and should look what happened after he died. By that standard, we might have stability for a generation if we're lucky.
"See-zur" is the correct American English pronunciation, and the one most non-Legion characters use. "Kai-sar" is an attempt (though not a perfect one) at the original Latin pronunciation. That's why the Legion uses it. Joshua Graham does not honor Caesar or respect the culture of the Legion - he's aware that it's a farce made up by his former friend, Edward Sallow. He's perfectly able to pronounce the name in the way the Legion does. He chooses not to.
there was a forum where i discussed how killing Caesar was more significant than the main story of the game portrayes, since the legion would fall when Caesar dies. Joshua is the ONLY character in all of NV that says the same i did on that forum, and that says a lot about him and his character as a whole. he knows, but he doesnt act, since he does not have to.
a few other characters react to his death too! Chief Hanlon does, I think killing Caesar is the only way you can convince him to stop falsifying reports
It's not all that significant in a short-term. That fact wouldn't even delay the battle over the Hoover dam. It's actually just like nowaday russia. No matter what they do, they're already defeated. Their ammunition is at limit, they have to get vehicles from like fifties, and they're losing a lot of men, soldiers, officers and even generals. The only difference being, you can persuade Lanius to leave that suicidal campaign, whereas the other...
I killed Caesar early on my first play through without a second thought. Later on my friends said “why would you do that?!???!!!!!” But isn’t it obvious? Caesar was incredibly maniacal.
I waited until I completed all the other quests I could do in my play through. Once they were done, I got Boone to go with me to Caesar's camp (because he has unique dialog if you do) and destroyed the place. Then I played Honest Hearts to brag about it to Graham lol.
@@WadeWilsonKPop Did he, though? The King's chosen successor was Pacer, who was chosen entirely through nepotism (being a lifelong friend of the King), and was quick to do all sorts of scummy things (including almost starting a war the Kings could not possibly win, purely out of pride). It had less overall presence because of the size difference, but if the Kings were scaled up to the Legion, this would be a HUGE issue.
That's why he wanted you. Unless your Courier is particularly dumb and uncharismatic, it's likely that they have the capabilities of succeeding him. Despite all he says about trying to idealogically purify the legion, it's clear he values you because you're outside the legion. You've traveled the Mojave. You've been to Big MT, The Divide, Sierra Madre, even potentially Montana. That outside mind is why Caesar is successful, and why you would be too. Giving the Mark of Caesar to you makes sense from this view; he wants you not *just* to do all the dirty work but because he wants you on his court. He wants you as his idealogical heir.
God, Graham was just so well written. The brutal honesty in recognising his own weaknesses; "I never had a mind for logistics". Truly well written to put in self-aware flaws like that
He is right though. Caesar is smart, tactical, convincing. His replacement is basically just a super mutant who speaks fancy, too violent to think of tactics. He'd likely recreate the Charge Of The Light Brigade. Which is funny cos I think the empire fell in a similar way...
@@Mantis42 No, I mean the leaders got less stable and reliable. Caligula was one of the rulers after Caesar and he was effectively a nutjob. It's possible there was no decent leaders, resulting in the empire collapsing. Or, to put it another way, it's like the English Government: had some good points but has got worse ever since.
@@WolfyFancyLads Wouldn't say "no decent leaders". The issues with the western roman empire were manyfold and a lot can be attributed to external factors and pressures - the rest of humanity was changing and moving on whether the roman empire could keep up with the changes or not. Even throughout the "collapse" many of the territories that were once under the empire continued many traditions and practices for long periods of time as they had become ingrained, making for much more of a slow degredation/shift. On the other hand the rights of citizens in the empire had become more and more serf-like towards the colloquial "collapse". Labour shortages and economic uncertainty being driving factors behind the conversion of free citizens to land-workers that were obligated to tend to their duties.
@@WolfyFancyLads Empire prospered and outlived Caligula. Idk why the fuck people keep acting like he was the fall of Rome. Probably because it's like one of 5 emperors public schools talk about.
@@Hulbetley The fact there are more candidates also makes the possibility of a schism or civil war even more likely. Without Cesar I find it unlikely that the entirety of the leigon would fall under a successor unless *maybe* nominated beforehand. Lanius is an obvious one and would have the respect of the soldiery (hard to speculate on the vast civilian population that supplies them) but may not have the skills to lead in all matters.
I like to imagine the way Joshua pronounces Ceasar is a way of insulting him, considering he used to be a part of the Legion and all of them pronounce it like kaisar.
Yeah but the game is putting too much weight on the pronounciation. At one era of Roman era it would have been pronounced like German "Kaiser" But using the different pronounciation would be equally fine.
For that to work you need to kill Caesar first, since the Honest Hearts dlc is underdeveloped, there are no useful NPCs after you complete the Zion main quest
@@MisterJohnDoe I actually like that it makes me feel like I did something there all that's left are the white legs and such so to me it feels like I actually succeed like in old money the only time I really completed it (which took forever btw) I turned off the radio letting the place finally after years on end rest peacefully and that's what I imagine my courier doing besides the revenge thing he is really just trying to fix a broken place a little bit at a time for him I imaging hooverdam is important as can be but dangerous for any one man to control to me my courier isn't a blood thirsty psychopath but a man who at the end of the day wants what's best for the Nevada and all those who might one day live in it
The only person I could possibly see successfully leading Caesar's Legion after his death is Vulpes. He's pure evil but, anything but stupid. The issue is, the warriors of the Legion would never accept his rule. Caesar had a pragmatic streak where he'd bend his own ideology to suit his needs. Lanius really doesn't. All Lanius knows and wants is battle. I doubt he'd even care enough to listen to Vulpes. Also, if you killed Caesar you probably killed Vulpes aswell.
Honesty I miss this type of acting and story, the DLC characters were all amazing doing the DLCs it makes me feel like I don’t have control, in NV I can talk, plow, and fight everything in sight, but places like those DLCs I felt as if only my skill in survival would get me out of it, talking to major characters and having them take command of the situation with only my final attempt at the end to try to convince them other wise is spectacular
For all his brilliance, Caesar ultimately doomed his Legion to follow him to the grave by not having a real leadership contingency. Combine that with the fact that the Legion does not have an economy outside the slave trade, which in addition to be morally disgusting (I hope everyone can agree with me on this point), is unsustainable since eventually you would run out of people to enslave. Best case scenario for the Legion, they win the 2nd battle for Hoover Dam with Caesar alive. I think they will be able to take Vegas, but I think they will have a lot of trouble holding it though I think they will ultimately succeed. However, I do not think they stand any realistic chance of taking California because (1) their tactics cost them too many men, (2) the closer they get to California, the shorter NCR's supply lines get and the longer the Legion's (effectively reversing their situations in the Mojave), (3) the further west they go, the fewer tribes the Legion will find that they can absorb to replace their losses and resupply their army, and (4) invading California will realistically lead the NCR to consolidate their forces for a much more hardened defense instead of the overly stretched contingent the Legion faced in the Mojave. Even if I am wrong and they did take California, they would lose the east due to being stretched too thin and most likely proceed to tear themselves apart once they hit the sea and are prevented from further expanding. And that's with Caesar alive, realistically he would most likely die long before that. Keep in mind at the start of NV, Caesar is 55 years old which while not particularly old in our world, is very old by the standards of a post-apocalyptic hell-scape like the Fallout world, and we know he has a history of cancer. Add in his life-style and his talent for making enemies and I would expect he dies sooner rather than later. Most likely, the best case scenario for the Legion is they win the Battle of Hoover Dam, take Vegas, and invade California (which realistically will most likely fail). At some point in this process Caesar will die and even if Lanius can keep the Legion together with fear, his tactics will bleed the Legion even more than Caesar's and give the NCR a far more predictable opponent to face on the battle field. Eventually, Lanius will die as well (I suspect this would not take long) and will most likely leave a power-vacuum and thus result in a Civil War. Ultimately, whatever happens the Legion is doomed to be exterminated by the NCR and other factions and/or destroying themselves with infighting. Poetically, this would ultimately mirror the fall of Rome in a number of ways but take far less time.
For all that he calls himself Ceasar, he is more like Alexander the great. One man takes a small nation, turns it into a massive empire, then the whole thing falls apart as there is no clear heir and it breaks back down into petty squabbling warlords who try to claim his legacy
@@jamesduffy7549 True enough now that I think about I am surprised the Legion was not destroyed by a slave revolt given that they enslave every woman and the average man must have a very short life expectancy
This is why I find the choice between NCR, House, and Legion so well done. The NCR is a flawed, corrupt, bureaucratic nightmare, but it has existed for nearly a century, and is the best hope America has to actually have a rebirth. Not to mention they are just so much more hilariously powerful than any other faction. They are at the edge of their influence in the Mojave, but it's not much more than an expensive border dispute for them. Their victory isn't an if, it's more a question of when. Meanwhile House and Caesar are both strong factions held together by a cult of personality at its center. Take out almost any piece of either of those equations, and you know they will fall to rancor and mayhem within a handful of years.
Based take, thank you. This is also why I think an independent vegas ending isn't a great choice, because the Courier is just as capable of becoming a despot as either House or Caesar. When the courier croaks, who takes their place? Probably just the NCR! If not them, probably another despot, and the cycle repeats. One person can't rule the Mojave, this is really beaten into the players head time and time again if they pay attention.
I’ve gotta disagree. The NCR could theoretically take over New Vegas *if* the road wasn’t a nuked out wasteland, but the issue is that they’re so goddamn incompetent. Take McCarran for example, they can’t take out the fiend leaders and have to hire bounty hunters. The spy, in their base, is literally the guy heading the investigation to find *himself*. The worst of it is, their leadership was so desperate to break the fiends they basically send a ranger on a suicide mission to kill their leader alone. Don’t even get me started on how they essentially allowed the powder gangers to break out and cause havoc, and the fact that the guy in charge of Helios One is a goddamn idiot kinda cements that the NCR is damned close to being a quagmire of failure if not for the courier being infinitely more competent than anyone they’ve got.
@@thejusmar also theoretically, the courier and yes man have access to the greatest bits of science and knowledge possible. House may've left how hes become practically immortal (Or at least being able to extend his life expectancy by 200 years) in the databanks where Yes Man and the Courier have access too.
_Pffft..._ typical NCR propaganda - Independent Vegas is where it's at! ( _Not to mention, I don't see NCR being able to do jack sh*t after you nuke them into oblivion..!_ )
God, I've played fallout NV so long, that background ambience that's supposed to sound mildly eerie just hits my ears like ASMR.. If I was forced to be stuck in a video game, like where I was still playing it, but it was the only game I'd ever play for the rest of my life, it'd probably be Fallout NV. Either that or minecraft.. But it'd be a hard decision..
"I never had a mind for logistics." And how do we convince Lanius to stand down at Hoover Dam? By pointing out the Legion lacks the logistics to hold both the East and the West. Fantastic little bit of foreshadowing.
You know thinking about it. When Grahm says he doesn't have the mind for logistics. I don't perceive as if he cannot understand it, or perform it effectively. But that he cares little about it, because it far more meticulous than strategy which is far more reactionary, short-term planning, and requires quick thinking.
I was glad to hear this from Graham, because I also felt that the Legion was probably the worst possible outcome for the Mojave like it had been for so many other tribes.
I think the only person that could replace Caesar is the Courier, No-one in the legion shows the skills or Charisma needed to lead. And even then I don't think the courier at full power would be able to control the legion like Caesar did.
Depends on the type of Courier. One that's essentially the same as Lanius would doom the Legion al the same. You'd need one that was a tactician and charismatic, as well as a warrior for the fighters to follow into battle.
@@Gakusangi when the courier says I'm going to shoot a mini nuke at you He's going to shoot a mini nuke at you The courier has the potential to be capable of backing up what he says its just that he's also smart enough to know that senseless voilence will be the end of everyone
Can we just take a second to admire how utterly contemptuous and dismissive that "No" is at 1:02? Joshua *knows* he's right in his assessment about the Legion without Caesar, and he's not afraid to express it.
Of course Caesar's Legion dies with him, it's in the name. In the end, Caesar failed to account for his own ailing health when it came to the Legion. It was HIS project, just like his adventure eastwards as a FotA was HIS project, and he would never let Joshua or anyone else assume a role that was too grand and risked the safety of his position as Caesar. He never trained or recognized anyone as an heir because of the threat it could create to his leadership. He shielded himself behind excuses like stability but the Roman Empire had good Emperors choosing good heirs before dying. He never did because his legion was a pale imitation of it and he was an egomaniac who feared death and being thrown out like a useless rag by his own creation. By having the Legion think weakness and non-combat skills are a sin, he dug his own grave.
> pale imitation Nail on the head, dude, nail on the head. Caesar had, at best, a layman's understanding of the man whose name he stole. Else, he'd know that he wasn't anywhere close to the ingenuity or cleverness of Julius Caesar. The Legion isn't Caesar crossing the Rubicon; they're the Helvetii and Dumnorix crossing the Rhone. By any reasonable measure, the Legion is just a large, slightly organized barbarian horde that rapes, kills, and subjugates as it sees fit while creating little of value. Just look at their gear: with the exception of some of their elites, they're largely equipped with what looks like hubcaps and dinner plates lashed together with tanned animal hides. Their weapons are equally crude, with most of the Legion being equipped with little more than throwing spears and machetes. Compare that to the NCR which, for all its faults (and it has many, only an idiot would deny it), is a modern nation-state with modern technology. They're capable of making their own weapons and armour, as well as salvaging and restoring power armour they find. Basically every single NCR soldier, down to the lowliest conscript, has an actual gun. Sure, some might not have much more than an AR-15 or even just a 9mm pistol, but they have range and accuracy the Legion lacks. As ponderous and slow as they are, they're at least stable and robust. The NCR will survive Kimball's death, just as it survived the loss of President Tandi in its earliest days. The Legion is built around one man. One mortal man who holds on to power with great jealousy and fear. There is no selection process for a new Caesar, no heir because, as you pointed out, there'd be little from stopping said heir from simply killing him and getting themselves a Klingon promotion out of the deal. Thus, the Legion dies with Caesar. While it may be quick and vicious, it was built on a foundation of balsa wood. Even if you manage to remove Caesar's cancer, the Legion is still living on borrowed time by its very nature. It'll just keep limping along until Caesar finally dies of, if nothing else, old age.
@@Hagunemnon Thank you! The Romans at their time were one of the best technologically equipped armies out there, NV Caesar is a LARPer actively forgoing the best weaponry and equipment available.
I would say the Roman Empire only had a handful of good emperors, the rest were simply mediocre to awful. It was more than just the emperor that kept Rome together, unlike the Legion. In fact I think Caesar's legion is better compared to a nomadic tribe such as the Huns or Mongols.
Hilarious to have the dude who sends machetes into battle against rifles lecture the player character about combat etc. etc. when his dudes lose every single in-game skirmish they take that isn't scripted. I just cannot for my entire life get over that Caesar's legion is by far the least threatening thing in the game. Muties, deathclaws, armored NCR soldiers taking pot shots at you with rifles-- all of these mean more threat to me as a player than Caesar's butterknife brigade trying to figure their way around two rocks and a cactus in order to try and hit me before they become lead pincushions.
@@SirFuzziFallout NV fans often use WWIIs Eastern Front as an analogy for the NCR-Legion War but in reality it's more like the Anglo-Zulu War. Sure NCR is most likely to lose at Hoover Dam if the Courier wasn't around to help, but the British didn't give up even after the massive disaster at Isandlwana.
One of the few characters that recognises, that a dying Legion, although good for the Mojave, is devastating for the people back east, considering the Legion, although oppressive, kept things in order and safe with its presence. It's one of the reasons why caravans and supply lines were so successful in Legion territory, compared to the west, where the Fiends, general raiders, aggressive wildlife and other factions continue to harass and pressure the NCR, the Legion wiped out any and all resistance in their parts.
I do wish killing Caesar would cause more of a effect in the game as with killing so many assassin squad's or bases and camps but there is no change at all
I remember in my first playthrough I killed Caesar thinking the game would end there or something cool would happen. But, all you can do is just.....kill everyone else there or leave. It never really felt like I did really much at all.
That's because, in the here and now, you really didn't. The Legion at that point can hold under Vulpes and Lanius through the battle of Hoover Dam. Caesar's death impacts the Legion in the long run, where the lack of a single, unquestioned leader with the charisma and tenacity to lead, and the historical knowledge to not fuck up, is lost.
He's worried about the innocents that will no doubt be in the crossfires of the Legion's implosion. Doesn't help that he himself is partially responsible for their enslavement.
Leadership is so incredibly important when it comes to conquest… almost scarily so, which is why not taking adequate steps to create suitable successors is to dig the grave of the entire empire. Just look at the ancient mongols, they conquered the entire known world, it was the largest empire in history, still is even to this very day… imagine how much these men and women had achieved (Mongol women fought too), how many cities they had conquered, how many battles they had fought, then Genghis Khan died and they all just… gave up…. It’s scary to think about how easily such a large entity can be snuffed out just like that, though good for the world no doubt…
Joshua has to be one of my favorite characters in NV. They should have more Mormon characters in games like him. I've heard several times that Utah of all places produces the finest soldiers in the nation. I never would have guessed such a quiet and unassuming people could produce such chads. Edit: I don't know what's going on in here. I just thought it would be cool to see more of a very unique people. And I don't know what these people are on about, I've met a few, and they seem pretty bright, intelligent, and honest. If they were so sinister, why is their church growing so unbelievably fast? And their practices are extremely tame for a cult if you ask me.
it is not the man who has conviction and bravery for his country you should be afraid of in war, but the religious man who gives all for his god. look at the hero of Hacksaw Ridge, 7 day adventist, refused to carry a gun, medal of honor.
@@citizenoftheworld2694 Given that I live there. I'd not go that far. It surely is heavily present here, but its the country bumpkins you want to be wary of. the ones who don't live in the cities tend to have multiple wives, and suspicious influence or wealth.
Bethesda has gotten pretty bad in recent times, but they are pretty good with detail too, for example if you have somehow not met the minutemen in fallout 4 even after getting banished from the institute, Desdemona from the railroad actually tells you to find them even though most people would never see that dialogue option
@@avichalsinghal4786 that is true, however the only reason for that is because it's the only way for the story to progress. Personally, it would have been more impressive if the game had an alternative assault. Possibly something like how the minuteman sneak in, except it's a last ditch attempt by the railroad and escaped synths
@@theencolony5595 I guess, but the railroad's entire setup was that it was cooperating with patriot and Z1 to setup rescues, so a last ditch effort would make no sense for the railroad as Z1 wouldn't be able to help the synths escape and the railroad would have to kill the weaponized synths. It would make the railroad ending the same as the minuteman ending, only it wouldn't have fit with the railroad's philosophy of harming as few synths as possible and rescuing the rest
@@avichalsinghal4786 yeah, my example was just a quick idea I came up with in the middle of the night. My main point was that there should be some other way to keep working with the railroad, other than "sorry this questline has ended, please go to Concord to continue"
I'm sorry, you said "ironic" and I've immediately started hearing the tragedy of Darth Plagues the Wise in my head, but this time narrated by Joshua's voice 😅
I imagine in some way he may actually feel grateful to Edward. It’s like what Jack Sparrow told Lord Beckett in the third PotC movie, when they recalled the moment the latter literally branded the former as a pirate, “And in so doing, you spared me the pain of being anyone other than who I truly am.” Graham may not be at peace with himself as he’s haunted by the monumental misdeeds of his past, but I think he came to see what he’s done with his second chance after escaping death in the Grand Canyon as his true calling in life.
Something I appreciate about Joshua Graham here is a very subtle dig at Caesar. He's still very composed and polite about everything, and clearly has his emotions under control although he is certainly glad Caesar is dead. But he says "Caesar" in the standard English way. If there's anyone who would know that the original Latin pronunciation, the one the Legion uses, was more like "Kaisar" it would be Joshua. He was there at the founding of the legion, and commanded them for years. Because we know he knows that, you can see that every time he says "Caesar" that it is a subtle disrespect towards him. It's a subtle note that Joshua has realized that Caesar was full of shit and that he hates him. That's what I like about Joshua Graham. He's very calm and collected in speech, but there's an anger, a fire if you will, that is still burning. He leans on his faith now, but the Malpais Legate is still in there.
i mean Graham is right Lanius is not fit to lead the legion because he's not a Caesar 2 Electric Bogaloo Caesar has a vision of how he wants all tribes to join him and destroy what the NCR does to its citizens, Yeah hes a slaver, but atleast he has a plan Lanius on the other hand is just: ''Haahaha Bumper Sword goes *BONK* ''
@@parkerluciani7048 no,it's about correct,he's just a brute who has no ability to lead beyond be a military commander,he just talk fancy to make himself look smarter
Just another brilliant set of lines from probably the most brilliant game ever made, if they updated the graphics and debugged the game it would get a lot more deserved attention from a new generation of gamers.
@@Tumer74 'fallout 3 in 4' can't be made because of voice lines and copyrights for characters and songs... Ya lookin forward to TTS or in your head reading all dialogue?
@@Leotheleprachaun pretty sure the teams navigating the legalities with voiceover and music by re recording all the dialogue with new VAs, as for the music I can't say for certain. And worst comes to worst I know how to read so yeah that wouldn't really be a big issue. I played through all of Disco Elysium before the final cut was out and that was like reading a book, so I'll be content either way.
Funny how you have those Caesar simps that freak out when people say the faction dies with Caesar, and yet almost every major character says the same thing
They also say that Lanius is this beast that is incapable of reasoning and lives only for fighting and honor and then when you meet him you can reason with him and if you lich against him he is programmed to run away and heal when he is low on health. And I think this means that probably most of the characters are biased.
Got this on my first playthrough lol. Shot through the main quest and started doing dlc after doing the dam (pre loaded saves of course, dont know of a mod that allows you to continue afterwards)
@@roman_empyr4457 That'd be dope, thanks mate. Haven't picked FNV in a hot minute though (especially after I started working) but after playing recently starting disco elysium my narrative bug has been reignited. And I have a beefier pc too now. Honestly might start a very modded playthough now.
All the factions have their good merits and bad merits. its just that in the case of the Legion, the bad *HEAVILY* outweighs the good and its part of why I bulldoze them on sight lol
@@14dcook Yeah, it's less that the Legion is best for the Mojave and more that the Mojave is best for the Legion; what we see is only the tip of the iceburg - think about everything and everyone behind them in Legion territory that's left in the control of Caesar's pet psychopaths. You could make an argument for taking over an evil organisation and permiting the suffering of a relative few in order to alleviate the suffering of a significantly larger number of people by at least turning the Legion into a morally grey entity rather than the solid black it it in-game. Problem is, that storyline pretty much ends after you decide the battle, so you as a player don't have much agency to change the Legion, as such *YES MAN FOREVER!*
Personally I’m Christen baptized agnostic man. However even I can recognize the strength it must’ve taken Joshua to go from being the Devil’s Advocate to asking God for help finding a new purpose in life. This man truly embodies Psalm 6:1: O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water. I have seen you in the sanctuary and beheld your power and your glory. Coming from a desert where there is little to no water Joshua sought the glory of God and found it.
As an ex-mormon, playing this dlc i found myself thinking after every interaction with Joshua: "Damn. If the leaders i was raised with had even half of this man's gravitas and intelligence, i don't know if i would've walked away." Though to be fair, the New Canaanites seem far less culturally repressive than the modern Mormons. I WISH the LDS church was a group of hyper-competent warrior priests with a heritage of survival instead of a dogmatic bunch of doomsday preppers that use their faith to justify all kinds of hate.
Everyone saying the Legion will fall apart because Caesar centralized the whole focus of the Legion around himself is right but nobody seems to mention the Hoover Dam. I think Caesar recognized the instability of his system and that the Romans succeeded because they had a whole city to centralize themselves around, yet the Legion is just holed up on an otherwise nondescript hill. That’s why I believe Caesar wanted the Dam, to begin building his own Rome around this powerful and monolithic structure
He's not reloading them, he's checking for damage and grime and the way he's doing it is both incredibly fast for the task and quite realistic for someone who's likely spent all their life with said platform.
One of the best playthroughs imo is doing honest hearts before any significant main quest, convincing him to spare salt upon wounds then working with yes man while offing Ceasar and the legion as retribution for joshua, rewarding feeling tbh.
This is why I always pick NCR Honestly, I would've picked Yes Man ending if it's actually the courier who rules the Mojave, therefore no one even want to have that thought of doing bad stuff in the Mojave. As for Legion, they're just based on Caesar, without him, the Legion will be unstable and at the very least, become a weak faction Mr House is actually the "best" choice imo if only he's not a literal copy of Caesar. His visions are the best, but if he's gone (dead) no one can replace him and knowing House, he won't find anyone to continue his work, he's just himself, no one else
I think what feels different about him is he IS fanatical. To a point of almost insanity, but what was meant to break him instead galvanized and he decided to pick up a mantle to help people. He doesn't care about himself, it's almost like he's resigned himself to become a force of nature. He isn't happy to have this burden but he refuses to acknowledge how the burden effects him. Pure sacrifice, everyone wants to be like him but no one wants to be him.
Lanius doesn't have the necessary skills to run an nation and he is not interested in that, however I do believe he's smart enough and would find capable people and put them in charge of all the logistics so he can continue his bloody campaign.
Courier: What about Lanius? Graham: You mean the guy I never met and whose abilities I've based on stories I've only heard about? Who has conquered and governed multiple areas and has shown to be skilled enough to become Caesar's second in command? Him? Nah. Courier: Why? Graham: Because I was bad at logistics
Joshua Graham DID know Lanius. Graham was only thrown out after the first battle of hoover dam which came after the legions expansion into Lanius' village. This also means that Cesear had made the decision to put Joshua above Lanius (although that could be attributed to the fact that Joshua had been with Cesear since the start). Either way Joshua definitely knew who Lanius was personally and honestly when the dudes backstory is that he started murdering his own team because they tried to retreat its easy to pick up on why he might not be the best leader
@@billyboleson2830 It's very important to note that Joshua Graham was literally with Cesear watching and helping him build the legion since day 1. Even if you disagree about how he feels about Lanius and the legion in general its still 100% what his character WOULD believe. The fact you think he's an overrated writer because his characters have differing opinions from what you may think is the obvious answer is insane. Characters in stories are allowed to have biased opinions about other aspects of that story and not everything they say has to be reliable or taken as fact. And this is coming from someone who knows there are tons of valid criticisms for this DLC especially. It just doesn't make sense to make such big reachs when the actual problems are right there
@@connorsucks3847 Graham says he never met him he literally says it in this video also it's very likely the origin story for Lanius is just propaganda made by Caesar
@@CaesarSonOfMars Huh that's weird cus Lanius and Joshua definitely SHOULD have met. Lanius was already operating under the legion when Joshua was thrown into the canyon and if he was the immediate successor to Graham I would have assumed they'd at least met. Seems strange I guess but I suppose there's ways it could have worked. Also Lanius' backstory being fake wouldn't be an upside for him. If we choose to believe the rumours that Lanius' story is actually just propaganda then he doesn't even have the justification of war for being a leader. He's just another slightly above average soldier
Me mentions logistics of war being the key element, and exactly this logic the courier can use to deal with Lanius without violence. What a beautiful consistency.
i find it a little hard to believe that the legion would fall along with Caesar after all they also worship mars the god of war (or something like that) sure most likely lanius wouldent be able to but they would still have a goal and the guidance of mars so there's still a chance that the legion could still be around of course the legion would be weaker without the guidence and leadership of Caesar
The legion would definitely shatter without a political leader and a demoralizing defeat. However Lenius would be able to hold some of it together, probably the east to keep their hardest campaign at dog city. Caesars Rome would fall. But a new Byzantium might be born.
@@demondeity9816 i mean if you decide to go for a ending that results in lanius being killed (which is pretty much every ending unless you decide to do the speech 100 thing) both leadership wise and battleground wise the legion is fucked what i meant to say was the legion would in a state of panic disband and retreat in almost all directions and any legion camps cities and towns would follow soon after and the legion would be disbanded into little tribes that follow the same goal but slightly different
Either Lanius takes over, or Lucius, or even Vulpes, Caesar is expendable. The Legion will still be a bunch of raiders, as they wouldn't develop a culture of their own, but they would still exist
Even before Caesar dies, there’s some friction in the Legion leadership. If you talk to Vulpes after Caesar dies he expresses concern that Lanius would not see a need for his duties, as Lanius views the Frumentarii as dishonorable. Best case scenario Lanius has Vulpes killed and no more Frumentarii to keep the Legion in line. Worst case scenario is Vulpes uses his influence to kill Lanius or lead a faction in a war against him
@@memesthatmakemelaughforhou476 Uh... Then don't click on it? Its not like the title spoils anything, Most every NPC can be killed so killing caeser isn't a spoiler, its literally a fucking RPG where you can side with who you want
Joshua Graham, a simple guy who rose to great power but strayed from the path. Was burned for his failures and was reborn, now seeking redemption for his past atrocities and misdeeds
Joshua Graham is the most intimidating neutral character I have ever encountered in a video game. He is _that_ guy.
Dude is commited to his mission, and god. He sees Caesar and the Legion just as something from the past, and rightfully so.
@@moister3727 WOAH!! GOD?!! Which one?! Out of the TRILLION gods we have made up! 😂
@@kink4y0u43 His god at least
He is the weirdest companion. He rejects the Talk To command and he politely rejects you managing his inventory. At the last leg of the final quest of Honest Hearts where you fight back against the White-Legs, he bounces and gets to Salts-Upon-Wounds before you leaving a trail of some dead White-Legs for you to follow.
@@kink4y0u43 goofy ass comment, Joshua Graham is deeply religious
Joshua Graham, only character in NV that I know can roll a 100 Speech Check on The Courier.
That's rather low bar.
Ulysses: *Cough Cough*
@@readlater8962 Female Courier: Is that why you left the Legion?
@@skhighglitch4217 Okay, Ulysses Walked right into that one.
But most of the time he ends up being in control of the conversations until the very end of the DLC where Courier 6 use their Conversational Magic to convince him that bombing other places are bad.
@@readlater8962 if by being in control you mean he nonstop rambles about the Divide and history and the Divide and the Bear and the Divide and the Bull and the Divide.
"I never had a mind for logistics.", He says while loading a neverending pile of .45 Pistols...
Logistics is what put him in his situation. That's why it's funny lol.
Lol atleast he's upfront about it
“Imma be honest with you, I’m kind of retarded.”
Probably that's the very reason why the pile is neverending. He is so strong willed that his lack of grasp for logistics warps reality itself. What he can't comprehend, reality can't process.
@@tafferinthedark "It just works." ~ Todd Howard
It's wholesome that Joshua Graham is the only one that expresses concern for the tribes' safety when the Legion collapses around them.
I imagine he would, given he's partially responsible for their situation.
It makes perfect sense,he was one of them
@@concept5631Partially , man is almost entirely responsible for their situation. His knowledge of their languages , customs , and religious beliefs are the reason he was hired by the followers to accompany Edward on his intial journey into the east.
And are the reasons Edward eventually became Caesar.
@@clothar23 Joshua should've left with the other guy.
A little funny how despite knowing little about Lanius, Joshua’s assessment is correct. Lanius just wants to fight, and the Courier can point out through Barter or Speech that if he tried to continue the conquest as-is, the Legion would fall apart.
You can also ask Joshua advice for “fighting” Legate, which will open up a new diologue option for him to surrender without needing speech or barter at 100
Except that it isn’t really, Lanius is following Caesar’s orders to take over the Mojave without questioning them because that’s his job - but by forcing Lanius to actually think about how the Legion simply isn’t strong enough to hold both the Mojave and their existing territory it’s clear that when he’s not blindly following Caesar he’s quite capable of looking at the bigger picture. It’s also good to remember that it’s Caesar who began the foolish conquest to begin with - he desperately wanted to have his Rome before he died from his undiagnosed cancer.
@@williaml840
The conquest wasn't "foolish", it was merely part of his imitation of Caesar - whose strategy was expanding Rome so nobody would question him so as to not interfere in an ongoing war, and/or threaten the influx of loot and slaves enriching Rome.
Basically, after Caesar, that's pretty much the only way that Rome could be stabilized - loot enough by expanding borders to keep people happy and potential rivals paid off. Any setback in that and you're poised for civil war.
@@ohauss It was foolish, the Legion was overextending itself which left the Legion’s already captured territory undermanned. Edward also isn’t trying to conquer New Vegas just for its wealth - in fact most of the valuable stuff in New Vegas is technology which is useless to him - he want’s to make The Strip his Capital because he believes he needs it to reform the Legion into an actual government - which is a completely different scenario from Julius Caesar who was trying to increase his influence over an already existing government. Additionally, the Legion conquers more for the purpose of increasing its manpower than it is for the purpose of collecting wealth.
@@williaml840
Way to miss the point. Wealth was not an end but a means for Julius Caesar. And the Legion conquers so that it has something to do. Since fighting is the only thing it does well, in the absence of an external enemy, it would invariably turn upon itself - much like historical Rome does.
As for the Strip is a capital, that like much of what they made Caesar say was rather weak writing. If the war couldn't claim the strip, if nukes couldn't conquer the Strip, without knowing every bit and piece about why that was, no sane person would believe they could just walk in and take over. And if Caesar wants a capital, what's left of Phoenix, Tucson, Yuma or Flagstaff would do. He'd have the manpower to rebuild. Supposedly, the Legion doesn't care about bells, whistles and showmanship, so what point does the Strip have?
Joshua Graham knew Ceaser when he was just Edward. Joshua served as the Legate for 30 years, helping Ceaser build his empire. He gave everything to that man, doing horrible things all in the name of the Legion.
And for his loyalty, he was set on fire and thrown into the Grand Canyon, his name stricken from the Legion he helped create, chased by Frumentari assassins, and his people, the Mormons of New Caanan, were massacred under Ceaser's orders.
I dont think anyone knows Ceaser better than Joshua. If Joshua says Ceaser's death is a good thing, it is. If he says the Legion can't survive without Ceaser, it can't.
Silus (the captured soldier in camp mccarren) makes this point too. Its kind of insane to punish your soldiers with death for failing. All youre doing is getting rid of competent leaders.
@@pheo4156 failure is inherent to the nature of evil. Some sick - ass weirdos love to call totalitarian regimes "efficient", but the only things they're actually efficient at are propaganda, torture for minor offenses and creating institutions that compete with each other for power. Such a model of state is it's own worst enemy, because it will devour itself eventually.
you misspelled Caesar six times
he's dead, fuck is he gonna do about it?@@flamingspinach
@@experiment1499 nothing, I just thought it was funny that OP could be such a Fallout loremaster and not know how to spell Caesar
There is something so fascinating about Joshua, the way he's so smooth, clean, meticulous with every movement and action. And yet, it never feels off putting. Usually when a character is this graceful with their mannerisms it's a sign of psychopathic perfectionism. But I never get that feeling with Joshua. He genuinely seems to just be that thoughtful of his most rudimentary skills.
What I'm saying is that I like him.
Most characters that seem overly perfect came off as narcissistic and psychopathic. Joshua gives the impression of a man of commitment and focus, pardon the reference. He doesn't seem like someone who wants to appear perfect, but someone who wants to do things the best he can do them.
If I had to guess another reason for that, he probably tries to avoid unnecessary movements due to you know, the whole burned man thing.
His movements are ritualistic rather than meticulous. He doesn't perform an action for the sake of perfection, but because the action deserves to be executed perfectly.
He's meditative, soft spoken, doesn't really brag, and anything that can be taken as a boast is turned into a lesson against pride. He's a wise old sage in the truest sense, someone who's wisdom comes from reflection on a checkered past, and years of contemplation on his mistakes.
@@Robb1977 Being torched and forgetting his bungee cord while falling into a canyon might have contributed to that more so
Well the reasons to fear or trust him are kind of the same. He is a meticulous maniac, but since he went through his redemption you trust him to be a meticulous maniac in being civil too.
The whole NV campaign I felt like Cesar's death was insignificant. This, however, lets me know that fortunately the Legion is as good as gone afterall.
Hahaha Lanius will take his place, or Lucius, or Vulpes
@@federicoricca2512 But the whole point is, they won't be able to hold the Legion together like Ceasar can. They lack his charisma, his intelligence. They're followers, they lack the insight to the future that he had.
@@Amberion Vulpes absolutely has the charisma and intelligence to rule the Legion, as demonstrated in his use of an NCR informant as his own informant, his strategic mind (he skipped the chain of command and was able to lead his conterberium )? to victory) or the conquest of Dry Wells, where he only used charisma to convince the Twisted Hairs into joining the Legion. On the other hand, Lanius has a reputation that can be turned into obedience, he even becomes the Caesar if Edward dies.
@@federicoricca2512 I dont think its the capability to lead, rather the ambition to, caesar has something to achieve while the rest simply follows him, despite being fully capable of leading
theyd probably fulfill caesar's goal when he dies, but after that the legion has nothing to go with
@@federicoricca2512 the legion will eventually die and we have to accept that fact
Courier:"Caesar is dead. I saw to it personally. I just thought you should know."
Graham:"Poggers"
I read that in his voice, and it was beautiful.
Thank you, I needed a laugh today
"Poggers," ew gross. Neckbeard ebonics.
"Damn, I didn't know you were chill like that."
*Releases the slide catch on his M1911*
this made me giggle and kick my feet as i lay on my stomach, positioned sideways across my bed mid-afternoon!
Reminder that if you talk to the most intelligent characters in New Vegas that understands how a governing body functions and what it needs, they all say Joshua was the only potential successor to Caesar that wouldn’t outright fail.
And that same Joshua admits that he couldn’t do it.
The biggest problem is Caesar goes on about how Rome was successful because it’s people devoted themselves to the idea of Rome itself. But he ignored that. The legion devote themselves to Caesar, Lanius especially has no real loyalty to the legion itself. Once Caesar dies, there’s going to be an inevitable power vacuum left behind. From there people will start claiming that the current Caesar is straying from the original Caesar’s ideals and goals. That’ll lead to infighting and rebellions until the legion collapses or reforms under a completely different ideology. It’ll be chaos and no amount of “actually Lanius is pretty smart and the legion’s territory is super safe” will prevent that.
The courier is the heir, notice how all of ncr's faults gets fixed only when the courier comes along. Same with the legion, except their only fault is not having a suitable replacement of caesae
@@kanorcubes329 that’s a bigger issue than you think it is.
Not having a proper heir means the moment Caesar dies there’s going to be a power vacuum. Now in the game, if he dies and you’re with the Legion, Lanius does take charge but even then higher ups like Vulpes doubt his ability to lead. The worst case scenario is that the Legion just collapses immediately in 5 years because Lanius doesn’t know the logistics on how to run an empire. The most likely scenario is the Legion fractures, loyalists to Lanius staying while Vulpes and the others who doubt him splinter off claiming that they’re the ones following Caesar’s will.
The NCR’s problems are numerous but they’re like small cuts. Sure there’s a lot of them and it’s painful but you’re not going to die. With the Legion, their biggest problem is like a decapitation. Best case scenario, the body still shambles around like a zombie before collapsing.
The Legion followed the exact same doomed fate as Rome. Ceasar took control of a failing system with an iron fist, creating order at the price of over reliance on a single person. But because of the harsh total rule, the death of Ceasar means the death of the empire. The actual Roman empire took much longer to fall but met the same fate.
@@sparklepawz1185 wdym small cuts, the ncr is barely holding on to the mojave. I dont think you understand my point, if you play the legion walkthrough you'd see everythings laid out for you to watch unfold meanwhile NCR playthrough is you solving the NCR's problems especially if you play side quests. The only thing the NCR has on the legion was Silus with his knowledge of caesar's ailments which could turn the tides but even then you have to help the NCR to get it out of him.
There's speculations of the courier being the heir, but its not explicitly said so assuming he's not and Lanius is. Empires don't die completely in 5 years, and Vulpes is frumentarii he won't "splinter off". At worst he'll assassinate Lanius and install a puppet emperor controlled by his faction.
@@kanorcubes329 that’s the Mojave, not California, the NCR’s heartland. Worst case scenario for the NCR is that they completely lose the Mojave and those in power get blamed, are forced to resign, and new leaders take their place because their system of democracy is basically just ours. Losing a president isn’t the end of the entire nation just like how if the president died in the US, the whole thing doesn’t just collapse. They have systems in place like we do.
Also what do you mean they won’t splinter off? That’s literally what happened with old Rome. Why do you think before Rome completely collapsed it was split into east and west? Also that’s not how Vulpes is. I don’t want to explain the entire socio economic power structure of the legion in relation to real world nations but trust me, assassinating Lanius is the absolute last resort option and that’s only if Vulpes is completely disillusioned with the Legion which is an incredibly unlikely thing to happen.
Plus empires do die quickly if they’re as shit as the legion. Hell one dynasty in China, the Sui, only lasted like 30 years and that’s with the systems they had in place. Also stop bringing the courier into this like they’re a magic fix all. Not only would the courier being in charge of any faction literally fix everything wrong with them due to how the game is written, the courier in lore isn’t even a full fledged member of either legion or NCR so even if, IF the courier legion ending is cannon, they literally cannot be the heir to the legion because that’s literally not how the legion works.
"Nice guns."
Why do I feel like that should be a Confirmed Bachelor/Black Widow speech check?
I totally agree
joshua is immune to thottery
Probably because thats the last thing a guy with 3rd degree burns wants to do my friend, just imagine how unpleasant that would be
@@Bro1212_
Deep enough burns don’t hurt because the nerves were also destroyed.
@@Bro1212_ Unless he’s a freak and likes it that way. Maybe he has a hard time finding someone who is into him and his burns.
Josh: So... You killed the legion.
Courier: Actually just Caesar... And a handful of guards on the way out of-
Josh: Yeah like I said, you killed the legion.
Can we all admire Joshua's commitment to gun safety? I mean.... He checked that gun so many times. No one is getting accidentally shot on his watch.
he's gonna make sure no one gets Alec Baldwined on his watch
You joke, but note that he actually watches his trigger finger all the time.
He's checking all guns to the tribes to use
He doesnt want that someone of the tribe dies by a pistol shit by his own
I mean he constantly flags the courier and himself...
Yet, he flags you literally 3 times per pistol.
2 of which are when the pistol is loaded, lmfao, but go on you fucking idiot.
As someone who killed caesar on our first meeting its always nice to see npcs reactions towards it
Though most people see it as justice being served, the more politically-minded and calculating individuals just see it as a foolhardy, premature stunt that benefits no one in the long term. All it really does is antagonize the Legion, which could either ensure the violent destruction of all the Arizonian tribes, or galvanize them into giving it all they got in Hoover Dam. As how it should be.
NV is a game where you can do what you want, so long as you can live with the consequences.
@@wojak-sensei6424 "the more politically-minded and calculating individuals" bro thinks hes robert greene, although i do agree with your last statement
@@wojak-sensei6424 Bro,once you kill ceaser the legion will die,moreso like a headless chicken or a man on fire, they'll be failing around wildy causing havoc for a while,but they'll die out eventually .
@@wojak-sensei6424 Bro this is a video game, you are pathetic.
@@wojak-sensei6424 "politically minded and calculated individuals" you mean sociopaths? Their opinion isn't worth any sort of consideration anyway
House said killing Caesar would make hardly any differences in Legionnaries' ranks. However, comparing that to Joshua's take, Joshua sees Caesar's death in the scope of human eyes, unlike House's who analyzed outcomes based upon numeric calculations and probabilities.
To be fair to House, he did predict that Caesar’s death will cause the Legion to fall apart within a year or two.
@@pandawandas This and also that even if Ceaser dies Legion will not just "oh wait Ceaser is dead let's go East", because that would be just stupid to hold a war with NCR for several years, and now back off just because Ceaser died.
The Legion is already there and will wage war, Caesar or no Caesar, so to him makes no difference. They will fall longer down the line though.
He also has an interest in keeping the Legion at bay bc it forces the NCR to be diplomatic and not just throw soldiers at his gates and win over by sheer numbers.
They both say the same thing essentially. Joshua said that what follows is the last steps of a man who hasn't realised that he is walking dead. It means that the legion will still follow Caesars orders to attack the Mojave. But after that they will be fully dead with no real leader.
Joshua is talking about the impact of the death in the long run. House recognizes that Sallow’s death will destroy the legion but he’s more worried about the present. Caesar’s death has no immediate impact on the Mojave because Lanius and the Legion will still invade
I'm assuming theres a mod used cause Joshua looks different, but more detailed especially the bandages moving due to him speaking
Probably the authentic burned man mod
Yeah but the dialogue isn’t
Well in case you didn't know, killing Ceasar does not end the game so you can carry on as if nothing happened.
@@LightWavess I already knew that 6 years ago
@@Attention.. alright
Joshua is the most interesting and well thought out character in all of NV. Absolutely wish he could’ve become a permanent companion that would comment and input on everything as you go through the Mojave even getting to talk to Caesar during your first meet with him.
he would have been able to be a follower in the van buren 3 if that ever panned out too but would be in the middle of his evil arc.
There's a mod that makes him and Ulysses permanent companions. It's amazing running into the Legion camp and clapping Caesar in his Tent.
Crouching with Joshua… “Yeeeeees“
With this new AI voice thing going on, we probrably could make a mod like that.
With AI generated voices, the glory that can be made is uncomprehensible
I feel like Joshua is being humble here to some extent, that or it is too horrifying for him to admit the reality of this for himself. He claims only Caesar could lead the Legion, but it's obvious that Joshua himself would have been more than capable of succeeding Caesar and might actually have elevated the Legion beyond him. In fact he is the only man who could succeed Caesar, keep the Legion together and expand it. What he may lack in logistics, he makes up in charisma and leadership. Joshua is great at organizing/training groups and building up structure. The EXACT THING that the Legion desperately needs, and that's no coincidence. He has elevated a mostly peaceful tribe to being able to resist the White Legs, for example. That takes effort.
I think the fatal mistake of Caesar was not to overextend his expansion or elevating Vulpes and other schemey characters to power who will the moment he dies or is put in a coma start fighting over the Legion like dogs over a bone, his fatal mistake was burning Joshua and turning him away. I think this is the secret reason why Caesar does not wish to hear his name or talk of him, because he probably has some internal regret in how he punished Joshua and how it was a mistake. Doesn't want to be reminded of it.
I think that the secret true reason Joshua couldn't have lead The Legion is that he didn't believe in it. Not really.
Didn't say he did
@@kamalindsey You didn't! I wasn't refuting what you were saying just adding my thoughts.
The funny thing is, Caesar would have had Roman precedent for adopting Joshua as his son and heir.
There's a difference between having the potential/capacity to lead, and the desire and knowledge to take advantage of that. I have no doubt that Joshua could've led the Legion and kept it focused. But charisma, leadership, and military tactics are but a few of the many facets that are necessary for warfare. Logistics is crucial. Wars have been won and lost because logistics were crippled. You hit the right supply lines, production facilities, and information routes, or make it too costly, and you can secure regions with minimal losses to your own forces. There's more to it, of course, but Washington put it best when he said he can't lead an army on empty stomachs.
Also, NV is a game whose main plot is literally about logistics and how that's tied into territory/expansion/nation-building. The Courier is emblematic of this: mail delivery and correspondence IS logistics. So is asset retrieval of stolen property. :P
I dunno, you likely know all of this, I'm just feeling cheeky.
I can’t even explain what it is about Joshua, he’s simultaneously the most intimidating character I’ve really ever seen in a video game who is not necessarily friend or foe, and yet he’s a comforting presence at the same time. Maybe it’s because every word he speaks and action he takes seems well-prepared and thought out.
Caesar is unique in the wasteland, and without him the Legion is as good as dead.
@@Hulbetley thats different
@@gaymermoment how so?
@@Hulbetley 1. By having a populous dedicated to the idea of Rome well before Julius Caesar ever came along. People were loyal to Rome, not Caesar, while most of the legion is loyal to Caesar, not the legion. Without Caesar to maintain their loyalty, infighting and a return to old tribal loyalties are likely to become the norm. We've already seen that old tribal identities haven't been fully erased, look at Ulysses.
2. Rome had established means of carrying on succession of power through the Senate, an idea which is completely anathema to the Legion, which rejects democracy as a vestige of the old world. Without any way of establishing a legitimate successor, anyone can claim the mantle of Caesar, which is not how you maintain a stable civilization.
3. Most importantly, Rome was a civilization built around sustaining itself and improving itself, where the people of Rome dedicated themselves to projects of societal improvement which they would never see realized in their own lifetimes. The Legion is a horde of warriors and slavers in cosplay. They are ultimately not similar, despite Caesar's attempts to bring more of Rome to his legion, all that's there is Rome's surface level traits, not the ones which made it actually function as a society.
The Legion is not Rome. It's a bunch of wastelanders united around a charismatic dictator emulating that dictator's idea of Rome.
@@Hulbetley Many of the legion may be loyal to its ideals, but just as many have been pressed into service in order to avoid being wiped out at the hands of the legion. Those troops are likely to jump at the opportunity to destabilase it at the first opportunity. Again, look at Ulysses, look at Graham, the legion has not fully wiped out old tribal identities.
I agree that Caesar is not stupid, but Caesar knows he is dying, he has not named a successor. If we assume he is not stupid, then we must assume he does not trust anyone else to take on his mantle. A large portion of the Legion is likely to unify under Lanius, true, but he has no head for grand strategy as the text of the game shows us. He throws away pointless lives chasing after the Enclave remnants which Caesar recognizes as a foolish endeavour if he survives. Lanius will not lead the legion to prosperity, and this alone would be likely to fracture his command without the likely re-emergence of other loyalties, or literally anyone else, say, Vulpes, claiming the right to rule thinking they could do it better.
You describe Rome having revolts against emperors, and while this is true, I want to point out that Rome had SEVEN CENTURIES to build up loyalty to Rome above all else in its civilian populace before it even had its first emperor. Caesar has had a little over 30. These are not comparable in terms of long-term stability, we're dealing with something more on the time scale of Ghenghis Khan, and should look what happened after he died. By that standard, we might have stability for a generation if we're lucky.
@@Hulbetley It didn't. It routinely broke down into civil war the moment it had reached a certain size.
Notice how he pronounces Caesar incorrectly, but he doesn't do the same thing with Lanius.
Actually he is pronouncing it right. I don’t know why no one else does
@@liamegbert2697 Caesar with a hard c is the proper pronunciation. Soft c is actually incorrect, even though it's more popular(anglicized?)
"See-zur" is the correct American English pronunciation, and the one most non-Legion characters use. "Kai-sar" is an attempt (though not a perfect one) at the original Latin pronunciation. That's why the Legion uses it. Joshua Graham does not honor Caesar or respect the culture of the Legion - he's aware that it's a farce made up by his former friend, Edward Sallow. He's perfectly able to pronounce the name in the way the Legion does. He chooses not to.
@@nightsong81 King shit right there. Joshua is cool.
@@nightsong81 spelled it out nicely thanks.
Yeah. He respects Lanius enough to honor his proper pronounciation. But not Caesar.
the only flaw with Honest Hearts is that Joshua can't become a permanent follower and have special dialogue options with Caesar, NCR, etc.
there was a forum where i discussed how killing Caesar was more significant than the main story of the game portrayes, since the legion would fall when Caesar dies.
Joshua is the ONLY character in all of NV that says the same i did on that forum, and that says a lot about him and his character as a whole. he knows, but he doesnt act, since he does not have to.
a few other characters react to his death too! Chief Hanlon does, I think killing Caesar is the only way you can convince him to stop falsifying reports
It's not all that significant in a short-term. That fact wouldn't even delay the battle over the Hoover dam.
It's actually just like nowaday russia. No matter what they do, they're already defeated. Their ammunition is at limit, they have to get vehicles from like fifties, and they're losing a lot of men, soldiers, officers and even generals.
The only difference being, you can persuade Lanius to leave that suicidal campaign, whereas the other...
That’s because most characters in the game are focused on immediate impact on the Battle of Hoover Dam
I killed Caesar early on my first play through without a second thought. Later on my friends said “why would you do that?!???!!!!!” But isn’t it obvious? Caesar was incredibly maniacal.
I waited until I completed all the other quests I could do in my play through. Once they were done, I got Boone to go with me to Caesar's camp (because he has unique dialog if you do) and destroyed the place. Then I played Honest Hearts to brag about it to Graham lol.
@@ObnoxiousFeline I'll be sure to also brag to Joshua
Redditor
@@ObnoxiousFeline
Redditor wholesome chungus Boone moment updoot
@@monkeymoment6478 editor*
Lanius leading the legion is basically warhammer 40k in fallout
"FOR THE EMPEROR"
Caesar’s biggest mistake was not grooming a proper heir, and not structuring his civilization in such a way that a new leader could be easily chosen.
Caesar made an army capable of beating 19 tribes and no government capable of managing them.
I mistakenly read that as "grooming proper hair" and my mind went straight to how the King ran the Kings better than Caesar did his legion.
@@WadeWilsonKPop Did he, though? The King's chosen successor was Pacer, who was chosen entirely through nepotism (being a lifelong friend of the King), and was quick to do all sorts of scummy things (including almost starting a war the Kings could not possibly win, purely out of pride).
It had less overall presence because of the size difference, but if the Kings were scaled up to the Legion, this would be a HUGE issue.
That's why he wanted you. Unless your Courier is particularly dumb and uncharismatic, it's likely that they have the capabilities of succeeding him. Despite all he says about trying to idealogically purify the legion, it's clear he values you because you're outside the legion. You've traveled the Mojave. You've been to Big MT, The Divide, Sierra Madre, even potentially Montana. That outside mind is why Caesar is successful, and why you would be too. Giving the Mark of Caesar to you makes sense from this view; he wants you not *just* to do all the dirty work but because he wants you on his court. He wants you as his idealogical heir.
God, Graham was just so well written. The brutal honesty in recognising his own weaknesses; "I never had a mind for logistics". Truly well written to put in self-aware flaws like that
He is right though. Caesar is smart, tactical, convincing. His replacement is basically just a super mutant who speaks fancy, too violent to think of tactics. He'd likely recreate the Charge Of The Light Brigade.
Which is funny cos I think the empire fell in a similar way...
the roman empire lasted centuries, it didn't live or die based on one guy
@@Mantis42 No, I mean the leaders got less stable and reliable. Caligula was one of the rulers after Caesar and he was effectively a nutjob. It's possible there was no decent leaders, resulting in the empire collapsing.
Or, to put it another way, it's like the English Government: had some good points but has got worse ever since.
@@WolfyFancyLads Wouldn't say "no decent leaders". The issues with the western roman empire were manyfold and a lot can be attributed to external factors and pressures - the rest of humanity was changing and moving on whether the roman empire could keep up with the changes or not. Even throughout the "collapse" many of the territories that were once under the empire continued many traditions and practices for long periods of time as they had become ingrained, making for much more of a slow degredation/shift. On the other hand the rights of citizens in the empire had become more and more serf-like towards the colloquial "collapse". Labour shortages and economic uncertainty being driving factors behind the conversion of free citizens to land-workers that were obligated to tend to their duties.
@@WolfyFancyLads Empire prospered and outlived Caligula. Idk why the fuck people keep acting like he was the fall of Rome. Probably because it's like one of 5 emperors public schools talk about.
@@Hulbetley The fact there are more candidates also makes the possibility of a schism or civil war even more likely. Without Cesar I find it unlikely that the entirety of the leigon would fall under a successor unless *maybe* nominated beforehand.
Lanius is an obvious one and would have the respect of the soldiery (hard to speculate on the vast civilian population that supplies them) but may not have the skills to lead in all matters.
I love how ceaser even says the ncr is nothing without tandi yet he should know the legion is nothing without him
That's his hubris and ego😂😂
I like to imagine the way Joshua pronounces Ceasar is a way of insulting him, considering he used to be a part of the Legion and all of them pronounce it like kaisar.
Yeah but the game is putting too much weight on the pronounciation. At one era of Roman era it would have been pronounced like German "Kaiser"
But using the different pronounciation would be equally fine.
I did all the DLC first before doing the main quest, it never occurred to me to go back and check on Graham after I killed Caesar
For that to work you need to kill Caesar first, since the Honest Hearts dlc is underdeveloped, there are no useful NPCs after you complete the Zion main quest
That's why the game as very good replayability
Don't worry, pretty much all NPCs disappear after you beat Honest Hearts. It makes the DLC location feel so empty actually.
@@MisterJohnDoe I actually like that it makes me feel like I did something there all that's left are the white legs and such so to me it feels like I actually succeed like in old money the only time I really completed it (which took forever btw) I turned off the radio letting the place finally after years on end rest peacefully and that's what I imagine my courier doing besides the revenge thing he is really just trying to fix a broken place a little bit at a time for him I imaging hooverdam is important as can be but dangerous for any one man to control to me my courier isn't a blood thirsty psychopath but a man who at the end of the day wants what's best for the Nevada and all those who might one day live in it
This guy is just poetic. It's chilling
The only person I could possibly see successfully leading Caesar's Legion after his death is Vulpes. He's pure evil but, anything but stupid. The issue is, the warriors of the Legion would never accept his rule. Caesar had a pragmatic streak where he'd bend his own ideology to suit his needs. Lanius really doesn't. All Lanius knows and wants is battle. I doubt he'd even care enough to listen to Vulpes. Also, if you killed Caesar you probably killed Vulpes aswell.
Honesty I miss this type of acting and story, the DLC characters were all amazing doing the DLCs it makes me feel like I don’t have control, in NV I can talk, plow, and fight everything in sight, but places like those DLCs I felt as if only my skill in survival would get me out of it, talking to major characters and having them take command of the situation with only my final attempt at the end to try to convince them other wise is spectacular
For all his brilliance, Caesar ultimately doomed his Legion to follow him to the grave by not having a real leadership contingency. Combine that with the fact that the Legion does not have an economy outside the slave trade, which in addition to be morally disgusting (I hope everyone can agree with me on this point), is unsustainable since eventually you would run out of people to enslave.
Best case scenario for the Legion, they win the 2nd battle for Hoover Dam with Caesar alive. I think they will be able to take Vegas, but I think they will have a lot of trouble holding it though I think they will ultimately succeed. However, I do not think they stand any realistic chance of taking California because (1) their tactics cost them too many men, (2) the closer they get to California, the shorter NCR's supply lines get and the longer the Legion's (effectively reversing their situations in the Mojave), (3) the further west they go, the fewer tribes the Legion will find that they can absorb to replace their losses and resupply their army, and (4) invading California will realistically lead the NCR to consolidate their forces for a much more hardened defense instead of the overly stretched contingent the Legion faced in the Mojave. Even if I am wrong and they did take California, they would lose the east due to being stretched too thin and most likely proceed to tear themselves apart once they hit the sea and are prevented from further expanding.
And that's with Caesar alive, realistically he would most likely die long before that. Keep in mind at the start of NV, Caesar is 55 years old which while not particularly old in our world, is very old by the standards of a post-apocalyptic hell-scape like the Fallout world, and we know he has a history of cancer. Add in his life-style and his talent for making enemies and I would expect he dies sooner rather than later.
Most likely, the best case scenario for the Legion is they win the Battle of Hoover Dam, take Vegas, and invade California (which realistically will most likely fail). At some point in this process Caesar will die and even if Lanius can keep the Legion together with fear, his tactics will bleed the Legion even more than Caesar's and give the NCR a far more predictable opponent to face on the battle field. Eventually, Lanius will die as well (I suspect this would not take long) and will most likely leave a power-vacuum and thus result in a Civil War. Ultimately, whatever happens the Legion is doomed to be exterminated by the NCR and other factions and/or destroying themselves with infighting. Poetically, this would ultimately mirror the fall of Rome in a number of ways but take far less time.
For all that he calls himself Ceasar, he is more like Alexander the great. One man takes a small nation, turns it into a massive empire, then the whole thing falls apart as there is no clear heir and it breaks back down into petty squabbling warlords who try to claim his legacy
@@seekerofalice9787 That is a very apt comparison
Even if they have enough people to enslave, by the very nature of that eventually those people will vastly outnumber their enslavers.
@@jamesduffy7549 True enough now that I think about I am surprised the Legion was not destroyed by a slave revolt given that they enslave every woman and the average man must have a very short life expectancy
Kinda ironic how he calls out the NCR for being a dictatorship
This is why I find the choice between NCR, House, and Legion so well done. The NCR is a flawed, corrupt, bureaucratic nightmare, but it has existed for nearly a century, and is the best hope America has to actually have a rebirth. Not to mention they are just so much more hilariously powerful than any other faction. They are at the edge of their influence in the Mojave, but it's not much more than an expensive border dispute for them. Their victory isn't an if, it's more a question of when. Meanwhile House and Caesar are both strong factions held together by a cult of personality at its center. Take out almost any piece of either of those equations, and you know they will fall to rancor and mayhem within a handful of years.
Based take, thank you. This is also why I think an independent vegas ending isn't a great choice, because the Courier is just as capable of becoming a despot as either House or Caesar. When the courier croaks, who takes their place? Probably just the NCR! If not them, probably another despot, and the cycle repeats. One person can't rule the Mojave, this is really beaten into the players head time and time again if they pay attention.
@@derse1292 the Yes man takes their place, and he's essentially immortal
I’ve gotta disagree. The NCR could theoretically take over New Vegas *if* the road wasn’t a nuked out wasteland, but the issue is that they’re so goddamn incompetent. Take McCarran for example, they can’t take out the fiend leaders and have to hire bounty hunters. The spy, in their base, is literally the guy heading the investigation to find *himself*. The worst of it is, their leadership was so desperate to break the fiends they basically send a ranger on a suicide mission to kill their leader alone. Don’t even get me started on how they essentially allowed the powder gangers to break out and cause havoc, and the fact that the guy in charge of Helios One is a goddamn idiot kinda cements that the NCR is damned close to being a quagmire of failure if not for the courier being infinitely more competent than anyone they’ve got.
@@thejusmar also theoretically, the courier and yes man have access to the greatest bits of science and knowledge possible. House may've left how hes become practically immortal (Or at least being able to extend his life expectancy by 200 years) in the databanks where Yes Man and the Courier have access too.
_Pffft..._ typical NCR propaganda - Independent Vegas is where it's at!
( _Not to mention, I don't see NCR being able to do jack sh*t after you nuke them into oblivion..!_ )
My brother in Christ, YOU made the sandwitch
Keith is a badass voice actor.
God, I've played fallout NV so long, that background ambience that's supposed to sound mildly eerie just hits my ears like ASMR.. If I was forced to be stuck in a video game, like where I was still playing it, but it was the only game I'd ever play for the rest of my life, it'd probably be Fallout NV.
Either that or minecraft.. But it'd be a hard decision..
I'd probably pick terraria, it'd be neat to take a shit in the terra toilet
"I never had a mind for logistics."
And how do we convince Lanius to stand down at Hoover Dam? By pointing out the Legion lacks the logistics to hold both the East and the West. Fantastic little bit of foreshadowing.
Futureshadowing, actually.
Chronologically, this is before the Battle, but it was released afterwards.
I love the writing of this game.
You know thinking about it. When Grahm says he doesn't have the mind for logistics. I don't perceive as if he cannot understand it, or perform it effectively. But that he cares little about it, because it far more meticulous than strategy which is far more reactionary, short-term planning, and requires quick thinking.
He might sell you the all new ford f-150.
I was glad to hear this from Graham, because I also felt that the Legion was probably the worst possible outcome for the Mojave like it had been for so many other tribes.
I think the only person that could replace Caesar is the Courier, No-one in the legion shows the skills or Charisma needed to lead. And even then I don't think the courier at full power would be able to control the legion like Caesar did.
Depends on the type of Courier. One that's essentially the same as Lanius would doom the Legion al the same. You'd need one that was a tactician and charismatic, as well as a warrior for the fighters to follow into battle.
@@Gakusangi aka the only courier that could take over is the type to speach check there way past lanius
@@hellhound74 Perhaps, but it also takes more than just personality. Caesar could back up things he said.
@@Gakusangi when the courier says
I'm going to shoot a mini nuke at you
He's going to shoot a mini nuke at you
The courier has the potential to be capable of backing up what he says its just that he's also smart enough to know that senseless voilence will be the end of everyone
@@Gakusangi Isn't the courier canonically the fallout equivalent of the dragonborn? Or is my memory faulty.
Joshua making sure that those .45 pistols are all broken
He keeps the good ones to himself and the Dead Horses
Imagine if one of Joshua Graham's idle remarks was, "Hey, that's the guy who killed Caesar!" when the player walks by him.
"hey there's the high roller."
JG: *Long tirade about how the Legion is finished*
MC: "Uhhh... Nice guns c:"
Can we just take a second to admire how utterly contemptuous and dismissive that "No" is at 1:02? Joshua *knows* he's right in his assessment about the Legion without Caesar, and he's not afraid to express it.
Of course Caesar's Legion dies with him, it's in the name.
In the end, Caesar failed to account for his own ailing health when it came to the Legion. It was HIS project, just like his adventure eastwards as a FotA was HIS project, and he would never let Joshua or anyone else assume a role that was too grand and risked the safety of his position as Caesar. He never trained or recognized anyone as an heir because of the threat it could create to his leadership. He shielded himself behind excuses like stability but the Roman Empire had good Emperors choosing good heirs before dying. He never did because his legion was a pale imitation of it and he was an egomaniac who feared death and being thrown out like a useless rag by his own creation. By having the Legion think weakness and non-combat skills are a sin, he dug his own grave.
> pale imitation
Nail on the head, dude, nail on the head. Caesar had, at best, a layman's understanding of the man whose name he stole. Else, he'd know that he wasn't anywhere close to the ingenuity or cleverness of Julius Caesar. The Legion isn't Caesar crossing the Rubicon; they're the Helvetii and Dumnorix crossing the Rhone. By any reasonable measure, the Legion is just a large, slightly organized barbarian horde that rapes, kills, and subjugates as it sees fit while creating little of value. Just look at their gear: with the exception of some of their elites, they're largely equipped with what looks like hubcaps and dinner plates lashed together with tanned animal hides. Their weapons are equally crude, with most of the Legion being equipped with little more than throwing spears and machetes.
Compare that to the NCR which, for all its faults (and it has many, only an idiot would deny it), is a modern nation-state with modern technology. They're capable of making their own weapons and armour, as well as salvaging and restoring power armour they find. Basically every single NCR soldier, down to the lowliest conscript, has an actual gun. Sure, some might not have much more than an AR-15 or even just a 9mm pistol, but they have range and accuracy the Legion lacks. As ponderous and slow as they are, they're at least stable and robust. The NCR will survive Kimball's death, just as it survived the loss of President Tandi in its earliest days.
The Legion is built around one man. One mortal man who holds on to power with great jealousy and fear. There is no selection process for a new Caesar, no heir because, as you pointed out, there'd be little from stopping said heir from simply killing him and getting themselves a Klingon promotion out of the deal. Thus, the Legion dies with Caesar. While it may be quick and vicious, it was built on a foundation of balsa wood. Even if you manage to remove Caesar's cancer, the Legion is still living on borrowed time by its very nature. It'll just keep limping along until Caesar finally dies of, if nothing else, old age.
@@Hagunemnon Thank you! The Romans at their time were one of the best technologically equipped armies out there, NV Caesar is a LARPer actively forgoing the best weaponry and equipment available.
I would say the Roman Empire only had a handful of good emperors, the rest were simply mediocre to awful. It was more than just the emperor that kept Rome together, unlike the Legion.
In fact I think Caesar's legion is better compared to a nomadic tribe such as the Huns or Mongols.
Hilarious to have the dude who sends machetes into battle against rifles lecture the player character about combat etc. etc. when his dudes lose every single in-game skirmish they take that isn't scripted.
I just cannot for my entire life get over that Caesar's legion is by far the least threatening thing in the game. Muties, deathclaws, armored NCR soldiers taking pot shots at you with rifles-- all of these mean more threat to me as a player than Caesar's butterknife brigade trying to figure their way around two rocks and a cactus in order to try and hit me before they become lead pincushions.
@@SirFuzziFallout NV fans often use WWIIs Eastern Front as an analogy for the NCR-Legion War but in reality it's more like the Anglo-Zulu War.
Sure NCR is most likely to lose at Hoover Dam if the Courier wasn't around to help, but the British didn't give up even after the massive disaster at Isandlwana.
One of the few characters that recognises, that a dying Legion, although good for the Mojave, is devastating for the people back east, considering the Legion, although oppressive, kept things in order and safe with its presence. It's one of the reasons why caravans and supply lines were so successful in Legion territory, compared to the west, where the Fiends, general raiders, aggressive wildlife and other factions continue to harass and pressure the NCR, the Legion wiped out any and all resistance in their parts.
I do wish killing Caesar would cause more of a effect in the game as with killing so many assassin squad's or bases and camps but there is no change at all
I love this script, the music, the voice.
I remember in my first playthrough I killed Caesar thinking the game would end there or something cool would happen. But, all you can do is just.....kill everyone else there or leave. It never really felt like I did really much at all.
That's because, in the here and now, you really didn't. The Legion at that point can hold under Vulpes and Lanius through the battle of Hoover Dam. Caesar's death impacts the Legion in the long run, where the lack of a single, unquestioned leader with the charisma and tenacity to lead, and the historical knowledge to not fuck up, is lost.
@@funnyvalentinedidnothingwrong If you killed Caesar, you most likely killed Vulpes and Lanius too, I know I did
It’s odd how you can tell he is a tad worried about the outcome of the legion with Caesar’s death
He's worried about the innocents that will no doubt be in the crossfires of the Legion's implosion. Doesn't help that he himself is partially responsible for their enslavement.
Leadership is so incredibly important when it comes to conquest… almost scarily so, which is why not taking adequate steps to create suitable successors is to dig the grave of the entire empire. Just look at the ancient mongols, they conquered the entire known world, it was the largest empire in history, still is even to this very day… imagine how much these men and women had achieved (Mongol women fought too), how many cities they had conquered, how many battles they had fought, then Genghis Khan died and they all just… gave up…. It’s scary to think about how easily such a large entity can be snuffed out just like that, though good for the world no doubt…
Joshua has to be one of my favorite characters in NV. They should have more Mormon characters in games like him. I've heard several times that Utah of all places produces the finest soldiers in the nation. I never would have guessed such a quiet and unassuming people could produce such chads.
Edit: I don't know what's going on in here. I just thought it would be cool to see more of a very unique people. And I don't know what these people are on about, I've met a few, and they seem pretty bright, intelligent, and honest. If they were so sinister, why is their church growing so unbelievably fast? And their practices are extremely tame for a cult if you ask me.
Utah is unironically built different, in both a good and bad sense so make that what you will
it is not the man who has conviction and bravery for his country you should be afraid of in war, but the religious man who gives all for his god.
look at the hero of Hacksaw Ridge, 7 day adventist, refused to carry a gun, medal of honor.
Mormanism is a cult
@@citizenoftheworld2694
Given that I live there. I'd not go that far. It surely is heavily present here, but its the country bumpkins you want to be wary of. the ones who don't live in the cities tend to have multiple wives, and suspicious influence or wealth.
@@citizenoftheworld2694 Just like communism.
Joshua wears those bandages to hide he's actually an elf, doesn't he?
wat-
He absolutely is not. Could an elven constitution score survive what Graham has gone through?
@@ILoveEvadingTax Which is very fitting, given that Dunmer have a passive 50% bonus to fire resistance. No wonder he survived!
@@Tinandel depends on the elf and the setting
hav u herd of the hi elvs?
Imagine having both Morgan Freeman and Josha Graham on opposite sides of a courtroom that's gonna be one hell of a court case 😆😆
Joshua's gun cleaning animation is so smooth
i haven’t met him yet but damn he speaks fancier than most of the fallout universe
If this was bethesda, I fully believe they would have ignored this and Graham would act like Ceasar was still alive and well
Bethesda has gotten pretty bad in recent times, but they are pretty good with detail too, for example if you have somehow not met the minutemen in fallout 4 even after getting banished from the institute, Desdemona from the railroad actually tells you to find them even though most people would never see that dialogue option
@@avichalsinghal4786 that is true, however the only reason for that is because it's the only way for the story to progress.
Personally, it would have been more impressive if the game had an alternative assault. Possibly something like how the minuteman sneak in, except it's a last ditch attempt by the railroad and escaped synths
@@theencolony5595 I guess, but the railroad's entire setup was that it was cooperating with patriot and Z1 to setup rescues, so a last ditch effort would make no sense for the railroad as Z1 wouldn't be able to help the synths escape and the railroad would have to kill the weaponized synths. It would make the railroad ending the same as the minuteman ending, only it wouldn't have fit with the railroad's philosophy of harming as few synths as possible and rescuing the rest
@@avichalsinghal4786 yeah, my example was just a quick idea I came up with in the middle of the night. My main point was that there should be some other way to keep working with the railroad, other than "sorry this questline has ended, please go to Concord to continue"
"I used to be a member of Caesar's Legion like you, then I got lit on fire and thrown into the Grand Canyon."
The first time I met Joshua Graham, his voice sounded so familiar. Then realised the person voiced Erandur from Skyrim as well.
I find it interesting how Joshua shows no hatred for Caesar at all, he just finds ironic.
I'm sorry, you said "ironic" and I've immediately started hearing the tragedy of Darth Plagues the Wise in my head, but this time narrated by Joshua's voice 😅
I imagine in some way he may actually feel grateful to Edward. It’s like what Jack Sparrow told Lord Beckett in the third PotC movie, when they recalled the moment the latter literally branded the former as a pirate, “And in so doing, you spared me the pain of being anyone other than who I truly am.”
Graham may not be at peace with himself as he’s haunted by the monumental misdeeds of his past, but I think he came to see what he’s done with his second chance after escaping death in the Grand Canyon as his true calling in life.
Something I appreciate about Joshua Graham here is a very subtle dig at Caesar. He's still very composed and polite about everything, and clearly has his emotions under control although he is certainly glad Caesar is dead.
But he says "Caesar" in the standard English way. If there's anyone who would know that the original Latin pronunciation, the one the Legion uses, was more like "Kaisar" it would be Joshua. He was there at the founding of the legion, and commanded them for years. Because we know he knows that, you can see that every time he says "Caesar" that it is a subtle disrespect towards him. It's a subtle note that Joshua has realized that Caesar was full of shit and that he hates him.
That's what I like about Joshua Graham. He's very calm and collected in speech, but there's an anger, a fire if you will, that is still burning. He leans on his faith now, but the Malpais Legate is still in there.
Good catch
I find it interesting that he uses the non-legion pronunciation of Caesar, but uses the legion pronunciation of Lanius.
Joshua, MR house, Benny, is what it feels like to have 100 speech.
Ulysses
Conversations like this is what makes me enjoy new Vegas so much
i mean Graham is right
Lanius is not fit to lead the legion because he's not a Caesar 2 Electric Bogaloo
Caesar has a vision of how he wants all tribes to join him and destroy what the NCR does to its citizens, Yeah hes a slaver, but atleast he has a plan
Lanius on the other hand is just: ''Haahaha Bumper Sword goes *BONK* ''
LOL, ''Haahaha Bumper Sword goes BONK '' best comical interpretation of Lanius ever
@@johnkillingsworth5135 Yeah but it proves he never talked to him
@@parkerluciani7048 no,it's about correct,he's just a brute who has no ability to lead beyond be a military commander,he just talk fancy to make himself look smarter
The Legion is doomed the moment we found out Caesar is dying, Lanius (if he's even alive by the end of NV) can't hold the entire legion together....
Just another brilliant set of lines from probably the most brilliant game ever made, if they updated the graphics and debugged the game it would get a lot more deserved attention from a new generation of gamers.
F4NV mod will be done eventually. I'm saving my next NV playthrough for when the mod is done.
@@Tumer74 'fallout 3 in 4' can't be made because of voice lines and copyrights for characters and songs... Ya lookin forward to TTS or in your head reading all dialogue?
@@Leotheleprachaun pretty sure the teams navigating the legalities with voiceover and music by re recording all the dialogue with new VAs, as for the music I can't say for certain. And worst comes to worst I know how to read so yeah that wouldn't really be a big issue. I played through all of Disco Elysium before the final cut was out and that was like reading a book, so I'll be content either way.
He really wanted to make sure there was ammo in that pistol
Funny how you have those Caesar simps that freak out when people say the faction dies with Caesar, and yet almost every major character says the same thing
They also say that Lanius is this beast that is incapable of reasoning and lives only for fighting and honor and then when you meet him you can reason with him and if you lich against him he is programmed to run away and heal when he is low on health. And I think this means that probably most of the characters are biased.
Seeing Joshua Graham and Ulysses have a friendly philosophical debate would be something special....
Got this on my first playthrough lol. Shot through the main quest and started doing dlc after doing the dam (pre loaded saves of course, dont know of a mod that allows you to continue afterwards)
@Lars-li1ui Cool, thanks ill keep that in mind for my next playthrough
Hey when I'm on my PC I will send you a mod that allows you to continue after the dam with the consequences of your actions
@@roman_empyr4457 That'd be dope, thanks mate. Haven't picked FNV in a hot minute though (especially after I started working) but after playing recently starting disco elysium my narrative bug has been reignited. And I have a beefier pc too now. Honestly might start a very modded playthough now.
@@mage0534 do you have the script extender for NV?
@@roman_empyr4457 Definitely not. I say "upgraded" my pc but it's basically brand new.
It’s really a testament to how much he changed that one of the first thing he hopes for is that the people of the legion don’t suffer as it crumbles
Lmao it's funny seeing legion fanboys trying to justify why the legion is the best option for the Mojave, and I'm not saying the ncr is either
All the factions have their good merits and bad merits. its just that in the case of the Legion, the bad *HEAVILY* outweighs the good and its part of why I bulldoze them on sight lol
The only reason I even think the Legion winning MIGHT have benefits is entirely because their victory spells their near immediate downfall.
Who think about the Legion being the best for the Mojave, belongs to a cross. XD
@@14dcook Yeah, it's less that the Legion is best for the Mojave and more that the Mojave is best for the Legion; what we see is only the tip of the iceburg - think about everything and everyone behind them in Legion territory that's left in the control of Caesar's pet psychopaths. You could make an argument for taking over an evil organisation and permiting the suffering of a relative few in order to alleviate the suffering of a significantly larger number of people by at least turning the Legion into a morally grey entity rather than the solid black it it in-game. Problem is, that storyline pretty much ends after you decide the battle, so you as a player don't have much agency to change the Legion, as such *YES MAN FOREVER!*
Personally I’m Christen baptized agnostic man. However even I can recognize the strength it must’ve taken Joshua to go from being the Devil’s Advocate to asking God for help finding a new purpose in life. This man truly embodies Psalm 6:1: O God, you are my God, earnestly I seek you; my soul thirsts for you, my body longs for you, in a dry and weary land where there is no water. I have seen you in the sanctuary and beheld your power and your glory. Coming from a desert where there is little to no water Joshua sought the glory of God and found it.
As an ex-mormon, playing this dlc i found myself thinking after every interaction with Joshua:
"Damn. If the leaders i was raised with had even half of this man's gravitas and intelligence, i don't know if i would've walked away."
Though to be fair, the New Canaanites seem far less culturally repressive than the modern Mormons. I WISH the LDS church was a group of hyper-competent warrior priests with a heritage of survival instead of a dogmatic bunch of doomsday preppers that use their faith to justify all kinds of hate.
The courier:"Your former boss is dead by my hands"
Joshua graham:"GOOD"
Yep I'm not surprised
I'm getting Wilson vibes, the dude from Home Improvement
Everyone saying the Legion will fall apart because Caesar centralized the whole focus of the Legion around himself is right but nobody seems to mention the Hoover Dam. I think Caesar recognized the instability of his system and that the Romans succeeded because they had a whole city to centralize themselves around, yet the Legion is just holed up on an otherwise nondescript hill. That’s why I believe Caesar wanted the Dam, to begin building his own Rome around this powerful and monolithic structure
How many pistols dose he have to reload?
All of them
@@MyGamerforlife He's still not done, might get it done quicker if he didnt spin them around so much
yes
He's not reloading them, he's checking for damage and grime and the way he's doing it is both incredibly fast for the task and quite realistic for someone who's likely spent all their life with said platform.
Clearly until God says to do otherwise?
One of the best playthroughs imo is doing honest hearts before any significant main quest, convincing him to spare salt upon wounds then working with yes man while offing Ceasar and the legion as retribution for joshua, rewarding feeling tbh.
This is why I always pick NCR
Honestly, I would've picked Yes Man ending if it's actually the courier who rules the Mojave, therefore no one even want to have that thought of doing bad stuff in the Mojave.
As for Legion, they're just based on Caesar, without him, the Legion will be unstable and at the very least, become a weak faction
Mr House is actually the "best" choice imo if only he's not a literal copy of Caesar. His visions are the best, but if he's gone (dead) no one can replace him and knowing House, he won't find anyone to continue his work, he's just himself, no one else
I think what feels different about him is he IS fanatical. To a point of almost insanity, but what was meant to break him instead galvanized and he decided to pick up a mantle to help people.
He doesn't care about himself, it's almost like he's resigned himself to become a force of nature. He isn't happy to have this burden but he refuses to acknowledge how the burden effects him.
Pure sacrifice, everyone wants to be like him but no one wants to be him.
Lanius doesn't have the necessary skills to run an nation and he is not interested in that, however I do believe he's smart enough and would find capable people and put them in charge of all the logistics so he can continue his bloody campaign.
He'll probably execute them at the slightest failure and the legion would devour itself that way 😅
It was always personal animosity for Caesar, at least when it came to Joshua.
Based Darkman
Joshua Graham = the Frank Castle/Punisher of Fallout New Vegas?
Joshua Graham = the John Wick of FO NV?
Interesting that he says seesar instead of kaisar
It pisses Caesar off, why wouldn't he?
"I've never had the mind for logistics" as he is counting 1911's in a pile on the table.
Courier: What about Lanius?
Graham: You mean the guy I never met and whose abilities I've based on stories I've only heard about? Who has conquered and governed multiple areas and has shown to be skilled enough to become Caesar's second in command? Him? Nah.
Courier: Why?
Graham: Because I was bad at logistics
Its cause Avellone is an overrated writer
Joshua Graham DID know Lanius. Graham was only thrown out after the first battle of hoover dam which came after the legions expansion into Lanius' village. This also means that Cesear had made the decision to put Joshua above Lanius (although that could be attributed to the fact that Joshua had been with Cesear since the start). Either way Joshua definitely knew who Lanius was personally and honestly when the dudes backstory is that he started murdering his own team because they tried to retreat its easy to pick up on why he might not be the best leader
@@billyboleson2830 It's very important to note that Joshua Graham was literally with Cesear watching and helping him build the legion since day 1. Even if you disagree about how he feels about Lanius and the legion in general its still 100% what his character WOULD believe. The fact you think he's an overrated writer because his characters have differing opinions from what you may think is the obvious answer is insane. Characters in stories are allowed to have biased opinions about other aspects of that story and not everything they say has to be reliable or taken as fact. And this is coming from someone who knows there are tons of valid criticisms for this DLC especially. It just doesn't make sense to make such big reachs when the actual problems are right there
@@connorsucks3847 Graham says he never met him he literally says it in this video also it's very likely the origin story for Lanius is just propaganda made by Caesar
@@CaesarSonOfMars Huh that's weird cus Lanius and Joshua definitely SHOULD have met. Lanius was already operating under the legion when Joshua was thrown into the canyon and if he was the immediate successor to Graham I would have assumed they'd at least met. Seems strange I guess but I suppose there's ways it could have worked. Also Lanius' backstory being fake wouldn't be an upside for him. If we choose to believe the rumours that Lanius' story is actually just propaganda then he doesn't even have the justification of war for being a leader. He's just another slightly above average soldier
Me mentions logistics of war being the key element, and exactly this logic the courier can use to deal with Lanius without violence. What a beautiful consistency.
i find it a little hard to believe that the legion would fall along with Caesar after all they also worship mars the god of war (or something like that) sure most likely lanius wouldent be able to but they would still have a goal and the guidance of mars so there's still a chance that the legion could still be around of course the legion would be weaker without the guidence and leadership of Caesar
The legion would definitely shatter without a political leader and a demoralizing defeat.
However Lenius would be able to hold some of it together, probably the east to keep their hardest campaign at dog city.
Caesars Rome would fall.
But a new Byzantium might be born.
@@demondeity9816 i mean if you decide to go for a ending that results in lanius being killed (which is pretty much every ending unless you decide to do the speech 100 thing) both leadership wise and battleground wise the legion is fucked what i meant to say was the legion would in a state of panic disband and retreat in almost all directions and any legion camps cities and towns would follow soon after and the legion would be disbanded into little tribes that follow the same goal but slightly different
Either Lanius takes over, or Lucius, or even Vulpes, Caesar is expendable. The Legion will still be a bunch of raiders, as they wouldn't develop a culture of their own, but they would still exist
Even before Caesar dies, there’s some friction in the Legion leadership. If you talk to Vulpes after Caesar dies he expresses concern that Lanius would not see a need for his duties, as Lanius views the Frumentarii as dishonorable. Best case scenario Lanius has Vulpes killed and no more Frumentarii to keep the Legion in line. Worst case scenario is Vulpes uses his influence to kill Lanius or lead a faction in a war against him
@@federicoricca2512 "they wouldn't develop a culture of there own" they literally worship a god
I like that Joshua actually pronounced Caesar correctly
He doesn't pronounce it correctly
Dude I just finished the game, if this was recommended a day earlier, it'd be a spoiler.
The games like 20 years old.
@@alexsan1991x 12 years. And I'm not mad or anything, just sharing an interesting bit of information
Its not a spoiler, literally every character in new vegas can be killed lol
@@jakeola10 I still would rather see the after affects while playing than in a TH-cam video
@@memesthatmakemelaughforhou476 Uh... Then don't click on it? Its not like the title spoils anything, Most every NPC can be killed so killing caeser isn't a spoiler, its literally a fucking RPG where you can side with who you want
Joshua Graham, a simple guy who rose to great power but strayed from the path. Was burned for his failures and was reborn, now seeking redemption for his past atrocities and misdeeds
Man I love Joshua Graham! Too bad he's a *Mormon*
Oh damn it just clicked in my brain this is the same voice actor as a bunch of the dark elves in Skyrim