I think one of the big reasons why people are not really down to pvp yet is because of how long it can take to get ready to play because it's like eve used to be before all of the quality of life Patches allowing you to fit ships with one or two clicks. I also think more people would pvp if the insurance gave me my ship and contents back so I don't have to spend 20 minutes shopping and packing.
@@dayumcraig7657 >like its not the same as in stanton No. In Stanton most of planet side landing pads are in armistice zone. Ships are immune to weapon damage, you only can ram someone.
Gold is gold no matter where is found. Atomically gold does not change from source to source. Refined gold, is what changes in quality. The idea of having High or Low quality ore is a joke. CIG should focus on filtering ore, and refining quality process. They need to hire a chemist so that they do not look like idiots.
There needs to be a clear delineation made between "PvEers" and "Anti-PvPers." In my experience, the majority of PvEers have no issue with PvP in general. It's the Anti-PvPers that make all the noise, all the accusations, and all the copes about "I'm ok with REAL PvP..." etc. Key distinction.
You’re essentially talking about ED players, in my experience it’s the ED players that joined after 2021 because they needed to fill the hole FDev left due to development decisions, they were so used to Solo mode that they now want a forced PVE only mode in SC.
I know its antidotal but I'm not seeing what y'all are seeing. Yea, the first week it felt like almost everyone who wanted PVP moved to Pyro, but now it feels like all the griefers who are scared to take part in legit PVP are heading back Stanton. When doing ground missions, I haven't been attacked at all in Pyro (maybe because of the system scale but I did get attacked while salvaging), but I've been attacked multiple times in Stanton this week (most of that while flying non-combative ships like the scavenger). With so many combative PVP players in Pyro, it's like there aren't any in Stanton to do bounties or keep the Comm Arrays running. Guess I might make the hornet as my daily driver in Stanton and my peaceful cutter for Pyro.
1:23:11 instead of hangars at outposts, just put shields which prevent ships from approaching the pads at ramming speed. Just like the speed control shields in The Expanse rings.
Pad ramming isn't even a thing. And sometimes it's a last resort option. Also, I recently had to "pad ram" a guy to help him out because he couldn't get to his ship because it glitched into the air because he forgot to turn off the thrusters, so I gently rammed it back down to the ground. Putting in shields to stop "ramming" speed means people will just use non-ramming speed, and then putting in shields to prevent non-ramming speed (which can still do damage) means scenarios like the one I described above wouldn't be doable.
The reddit is wild. Every even lightly pro-pvp comment in the reddit gets downvoted to oblivion. I'm not a pvp'er, but I like the CZ's and Pyro in general. I avoid fights when I need to, but that's part of the cat and mouse fun. There is plenty of explicitly stated planned pve content,this judt got finished and in-game first. That's fine, it isn't all coming at once. There's going to be pve dungeons, guild rewards, trading, etc.
problem is the contested zones are terribly designed. they are way too linear so it just promotes easy camping. they feel more like their have been designed for PvE.
Component wise - People want to be able to decide how they build their ship with all the options. Not a paired down option because they either PvP or PvE. Telling them they don't need it because to this and that doesn't matter even if its slightly difference. While PvP is competitive, PvE is also too but in a different way. People like to measure up to one another even its not fighting one another. It represents a division of choice that doesn't need to be there. Now, if they are still available outside of contested zones, that is really all that is required even if that is more RNG, or salvage it's still available. Industrial components have higher health which is good because you are less risk to have it destroyed. So they all have uses, not just tier A mil spec. But everyone wants to have the options regardless of gameplay style.
It’s not about “locking out”, it’s about making the other component categories desirable for different reasons. You say you want choices but choices have to mean something, there has to be cons which make a mili component undesirable for a miner for instance Stealth and military components are only good for other unrelated game loops right now because it’s an unfinished system. We can’t look at whats meta/desirable now as the be and end all Lots more changes to come with components so let them cook A rare occurrence of Focus is on PVP this patch but other game loops get their attention in the future as they always do. People freaking out about this are being childish as usual
@@0Metatron I hear ya. I didn't mention anything about 'locking out' in my post (as far as I can see but I dont have my glasses on.lol). Personally I know they will have other things coming out to assist PvE A tier gear acquisition (PvE missions, Siege, etc), and the second half of the comment mentions the other ways you can probably get things even now. However the post is explaining why telling people what they 'only need' for a given play style isn't a solution to these complaints. Because A tier (Mil and Stealth) components have uses in PvP or PvE. That would be like telling a PvP player he didn't need a Vulture because it doesn't fit their play style... so why complain about it? Well they may want a Vulture for various reasons. As well as they may also want to match a A tier industrial components for a certain PvP reason with other Mil components. Now I get no one is telling PvEers you cant get these, you just have to brave PvP to do so. PvPers braving PvE content is just boring to them, flipping that is not the same proposition with a PvE to PvP switch. But I digress. This about about efficiency. And if you want the best efficiency even in PvE even by a hair, that is improvement. And no one wants to leave any efficiency on the table. PvE is competitive as well because people all want the best. So if one can kill a PvE ship in 8 seconds vs 12, that is desirable. Sure you can kill a Hill giant with a +3 long sword. But just about everyone will opt for the +5 sword every time. PvP or PvE. Also everyone is not freaking out other than certain loud members of the community. But, most comments or have concerns shouldn't be seen as freaking out nor are they being childish. At least no more than content creators, PVPers do yelling on stream, getting irritated about issues, MM, CIG decisions, etc. Punching chair's etc. (Just teasing Mike here lol) Honestly, I see the PvP crew being the most emotional about MM than anything the PvE crew has done. I haven't see many TH-cam videos from PvEers 'crying', it's mainly PvPers complaining about them or MM and making complete videos on it. Clearly they are the most passionate and aggressive of the two groups.
@@Rated_xv Well telling them they have to wait doesn't mean they don't feel disappointment. After all, this is the first full system in years. How long will they need to wait for that? So its fair for them to be disappointed when they have to worry about even browsing the new system.
@@ephalanx1 I hear where your coming from the full system PVP thing is disappointing for them. But the game has literally been 90 percent PVE in terms of content and core gameloops. PVPers I believe have SPK, Ghosthollow, (which both are not worth doing in terms of making any Auec), and now finally their 3rd content activity being these CZs. I kind of understand finally a new full system besides Stanton being PVP but people gotta relax on the CZs and the loot they get. The game is nowhere near being close to being finished we need to stop drawing the line like its the end of the games existence...There are more features and systems coming... We have had mainly PVE content for years with a sprinkle of PVP content. All I am saying is let the PVPers have something worth to do for once...
"People aren't just going to come and blow up your entire base and move in and call it their own." Tell that to every A2 owner that bought the ship just to watch things go BOOM! I want to see you try to avoid getting glassed by a bomb drop. Even with defense turrets. I'd sit there with a lawn chair and a bag of seanuts.
didnt they specifically say during the base building panel that bases would have shield generators to specifically stop A2 bombs or any other arial attack, forcing a ground invasion?
When all the mechanics are in what does it look like for fighter pilots will they just outright blow up or will they get disabled more often so they can possibly be salvaged and repaired also will there be an automatic ejection if the power plant is about to explode or some sort of timer?
The best components locked behind PVP is temporary. CZs have to be tested right now so the incentive is high. Once they are tested, the the incentive will go down. PvErs just have to wait. Once there's instance PVE content, that instance PVE content will get the highest rewards, not CZs.
It's not temporary CIG have stated this is the way forward. High risk = High Reward. The highest rewards will be locked behind content that contains PVP.
@@JollygreenFullSteam that will kill the game because for an MMO to survive, its got to be all about PvE. PvP is often a sideshow. there is just such a minority who are interested in PvP that it will not work if they lock good loot behind PvP. it also makes the game boring as it becomes predictable where the good loot is. we need to be able to fine top tier loot anywhere randomly, not just in defined areas then looting in general will become repetitive and not exciting. There needs to be that small chance of randomly coming across top tier loot when you least expect to.
Love the video Mike you should do an interview with a couple of top pirates and discuss what pve guys can do to be less of an easy target we would love pve guys to get more skilled at defending them selfs
@@crispy9175>Found the PvE player type they were talking about in this podcast Yesterdays evening I spent at Chalwa beach doing quests, there are many players normally, ships randomly going red, people shoot NPC in settlements. let me describe my experience. I rammed Andromeda with Polaris just because I didn't like him, oneshot red Sabre with F8C missiles, bursted red Guardian, bursted red Hornet, shot random guy in the settlement because I had quest there, tried to burst red 400i but forgot how thick it is, rammed a rock during a fight. My Polaris was dumbfired by Eclipse for practice maybe, lost engines drowned in the sea, my F8C was oneshot by Sabre missiles possibly in revenge, was bursted by another F8C, I was sniped in the settlement's airlock by camper. There were no duels, no chances for them, no one gives anyone any chance to fight back. There are like 20 whites on the radar, you just catch 4 missiles and a burst from nowhere and you dead. This is what I mean by saying players shoot each over in the back. And all this absolutely for no goals, just free for all stupidity with no consequences. Go fly over Chalwa and you'll see ships going red, you want kill them but then next moment they going white again, then going red again, then going back white. This is not pvp, this is a pointless boring mess. And if you don't want to participate in this mess but whant to do rep quests - you can't avoid it, Chalwa is one of few quest hubs. I don't even want to mention cargo traders in Pyro, they are generally fkd.
@@crispy9175 >Found the PvE player type they were talking about in this podcast. You see, I answered you here, describing my pvp experience at Chalwa, but it was deleted, despite the fact that the text contained no insults, no toxicity, no hateful speech, nothing. Because people who you listen to in this podcast are so much pvp experts that they can't even stand someone talking in comments about how actually pvp looks in PU.
I don’t necessarily think an industrial power plant should have a lot more dots in those sections. Or maybe it should lock more dots in certain sections - and they’re locked there so they can’t all be removed? Or final solution: industrial power plants give additional benefits i.e. +20% to laser stability.
Bounties in Pyro should be gang rep related. build up enough rep with a gang and you get bounty missions for opposing gang affiliates with renown. With no comms sats to shut down they should just get their last known updated when they come into radar range of your gangs affiliated landing zones or if members come into contact elsewhere.
Tarkov (multi player) and EvE are very PvP competitive games - not just from a combat perspective compared to most MMO's which are more cooperative. SC was not pitched as a competitive PvP focused game. It really is counter to the initial theme of the game. Perception plays a big part of being compared to those games and what people know of them. Many are not salivating for that game play. They would just play those game for that. Also telling them they don't get it or are not understanding what is fun about them ignores the fact that many of them are aware and have played these games. They simply aren't fond of they style of play being mimicked in SC. Why do people think PvE players don't know what they are missing?
Because in other MMOs you still have the feeling of being alone even with thousands around you and nobody wants that for SC, its not organic nor does it feel like a living universe, when every player is in his own instance. Lets leave 20+ yo MMO mechanics out of SC, the game will balance itself out, especially with local authorities coming back in. If they ever divide the playerbase in pve & pvp servers, the game will die just as ship sales, if i do pve i wont buy any ship irl since i can just grind it without any risk or competition, if i play pvp there are only a few meta ships from wich i only need one. Nevermind that it gets boring as hell, the reason to grind is to one up ur competition and the reason to pvp is to test ur skills or to get easy money, but grinding to buy your second salvage ship gets boring just as doing pvp against fighters that have no cargo just for the sake of pvp.
@@DerDrecksack87 The point of the post is that what I get is that people dont want this to be Tarkov or EvE. Especially PvE players. Im not saying there should be no PVP or advocating for PvE servers. It's saying that PvP is a smaller portion of the game and not its sole game play mode, ala Planetside, Battlefield, Tarkov.
@@DerDrecksack87 Also I dont feel alone in other MMO's. Maybe that is how you feel. And yes, lets leave out the 20+ yo MMO mechanics. Additionally what may be boring to you may be fun to someone else. There is that. From what I gathered over the last 12 years of SC dev, is that SC was facilitating the world with 9 to 1 NPC/Players. Which felt fine. I am sure people are fine with that changing as well to even more players so long as the immersion is there. Players playing in overly anarchist ways is not immersive.
Not sure I like knowing who’s in the server or area. I think it would be better to know who’s in the area or server by keeping an eye on comms in the area. Reading chat and seeing that a pvpr is in the area.
I agree with everything these two talked about. I think factions should be stronger in Pyro and rep level flagging players of opposing factions as good to kill with some sort of reward. Outpost in Pyro could shift control from one faction to another, and players can influence that. Tarkov barter system would be great. Especially in remote areas like Pyro. In fact I think is should be the modus operandi. PvE would benefit from more depth. Components need to have greater meaning. Especially with power and power consumption. I like the idea of Industrial being large powerful / power hungry machines that shine like as star on radar. Weapons, armor, and vehicles / ships sould have a million billion components. Okay, maybe that's too much, but I love tweaking and testing, sue me.
All the stuff about the copmonents is coming with resource management. They delayed resource management out of 4.0 so they could at least get server meshing stable.
PvE in Pyro is plainly a cost benefit analysis. Right now PvE in Pyro makes literally ZERO sense! PvP Players are literally camping at the cargo locations to Gank Your Stuff! I'll stay in Stanton until other star systems are in place.
I'm seeing the opposite, but I'm doing mercenary ground missions. I'm not seeing anyone in Pyro, but the second I enter a bunker or distribution center in Stanton my ships being blown up or when exiting someone with bad aim is camping the elevator with a grenade launcher.
@Pr0t0typeSky The PvP'ers know exactly where the expensive trade goods are. I won't gamble a 1.5Mil load while every time I've gone for goods they are letting me land but then attacking after I fly away. Just not worth it.
I don’t think the PVE guys are so against PVP as you are both saying. It’s the types of PVP that have them bummed out. Getting pirated, getting bounty hunted, getting attacked because you’re part of an enemy faction…etc. that is all great, fun, and immersive. It’s the immersion breaking griefing and murder hobo’ery that ruins the game for the guys who want an immersive space game and not a PVP competition game with a space skin. Players hanging outside stations waiting for players to land or take off so they can gank them for Lols is not fun and it’s not immersive to the lore. A gang or faction controlling that station would not tolerate some psycho killer rando blowing away all ships trying to land for no reason. It’s immersion breaking. Players that just troll landing pads so they can blow up parked ships for no reason are the same….Lawless does not mean that gang factions in a non government controlled system wouldn’t have their own codes of conduct. That’s immersive. CIG now has a griefer problem. Not a PVP Vs PVE problem. They need away to incentivize PVP’rs to take part in immersive forms of PVP. Pirating, faction wars, bounty hunting, assignations of players with prices on their heads. They need to also have consequences for murder hobos. I think if this was addressed you would hear much less complaining from the PVE guys. Some of the most fun I’ve had in SC is when I was pirated in a reclaimer and they wanted the ship intact.
exactly. i am trying to mind my own business doing missions and i land my ship to do some fps mission and my ship just gets blown up every time and now there are no consequences in pyro. its such dumb game design. why is my ships still appearing on players radar when I turn it fully off.
Vergjil saying turrets aren't useless is mental, they still are by in large not able to actually hit any lightfighters harrassing the big ships, meaning fighters are still the absolute be all end all of combat. I feel like the feud that Vergjil and A1 are having genuinely affects Vergjils public communication, just to disagree with valid concerns about multicrew raised by A1
I'm on holiday away so can't play but before I left I got a handful of hours and the AI seemed to work great in fps for bunkers for about 3-4 missions that I got to do, Cargo missions seemed to work ok, still a few bugs with ship hangers etc ,but felt like a great step forward, and it was noticible that other players were around at landing zones and outposts.
when we need to spend more on maintanance, maybe civilian stuff should be cheap to keep up. industrial being high power and robust with huge signature milatary components having high power, being robust but having high maintanance cost stealth having mediocre stats and maybe also high maintanance cost for stealth values and competition like they are already just raw power with minimal durability
I've never read so many horrible takes on Pyro. What you're seeing now is short lived. I've played Eve much longer than SC (I've played SC 7 years), and all of you can't see this game is going down the same road. When Orgs come into play, Pyro will become safer for some, and a death sentence for others. If they introduce cloaking devices a semi-balance will come in to play. Let there be no doubt, PVE'rs will be financing the PVP'rs in their Orgs. The Org with the most PvE'rs will take control of Pyro, and the PVE'rs will begin to move into Pyro and do their money making "jobs" there. There will be One Org in control of Pyro eventually, and that will last until the Org falls to internal strife or to a espionage or Intel/Counter intel org, whose whole purpose is to take over your Org and pillage it. It's going to get so much more frustrating for the PVP'rs like we have now that are only interested in the PVP fight. You all are going to find out what real power is in an Org. What your doing now, is child's play PVP. It's for the kids. Wait until in game politics and thirst for power comes into play. Trust no one. I can't wait to read the stories in Star Citizen about the org leader who went to bed one night, and while sleeping their entire Org was taken over by the people they put in to key positions with the power to plunder, and all the resources, ships, etc are gone, and up for sale to another Org that hired the Espionage Org (real PVP without a shot fired). Good Times. FPS/Ship PVPr's like we have now, have no idea what's coming. It's like some of you think Avenger_One knows what he's talking about. He's clueless. So clueless. You all playing checkers when the game is chess. Real life come into play in games built like this. Wait until they wield their power on CiG... It's going to be good times!
I don't think CIG is interested in EVE levels of toxicity and paranoia, so I doubt they'd enable, or even tolerate, many of the things that enable EVE's org politics.
so.............CIG have created PVP arenas. that's great. so why am i still being griefed when doing PVE missions in Pyro? why have CIG not put in the systems to stop his from happening? why is their no consequences for the player randomly shooting ships? 12 years in btw.
@@ddha0000 I was under the assumption that Pyro was a de facto kill on sight sector for now, at least while the sector rep system still unfinished. I do agree however with the 12 years comment. They tell me Pyro is where griefers can get hard from tickling each other's pixels.
People have forgotten. Fugitives from Stanton that break out of prison can now run to Pyro. :) ..All bounty hunters need much is higher pay for live bounties and cuffs,.
Can't afford to repair your ship? Claim and go take a piss or get a sandwich. It's free and the wait is negligible compared to how long it takes everything else in this game.
What I don't understand from many PVE only type players is why don't they realize they can speak to orgs and offer to farm for them in exchange for membership and protection, then they can actually do missions in Pyro with real PVP escorts and protections? It's completely fun as a mofo. smarter not harder
Because in reality its not about pve or pvp, its about people with main character syndrome, asking for help or working with/for others would hurt their ego. I and many others i know mainly play pve and nobody is pissed if we have a proper pvp encounter, its actually cool and reminds me that we are not just 500 ppl doing separate bunker missions.
Because a lot of PVE players are not trying to integrate into large social groups for many reasons. Many don't want to deal with the drama of the interactions, etc. A lot of people are in and out with the game because they have lives outside the game. Others are casual types that may want to play with a couple close friends and that is it. Speaking to orgs is not something they want to engage in. How one chooses to enjoy the game and what is fun for them is subjective. Some may have more time to devote to those relationships or are comfortable with just interacting with practically anyone. Also many people don't want to be dependent on others for purely a game which is supposed to be fun.
@@rooster1012 i bet there a lot of those who have zero social or communication skills, but most often than not its just spite. They write on forums that griefing is not piracy, yet when they get properly pirated they opt for self destruct or bed logging. They are not interested in any interaction outside their loop, gives them the feeling of being in charge.
@@DerDrecksack87 It is not spite. Or even social skills. Its preference. Most people are comfortable with smaller groups of people because the communication is more intimate. You're painting them in a negative light when this is really normal for the majority of people. It's not about being in charge. The issue with PKing is intent many times the reasoning is there is none other than to inflate the PKers ego at their expense. That isn't fun for many. SC was not pitched as a highly 'competitive' PvP game.
I think one of the big reasons why people are not really down to pvp yet is because of how long it can take to get ready to play because it's like eve used to be before all of the quality of life Patches allowing you to fit ships with one or two clicks. I also think more people would pvp if the insurance gave me my ship and contents back so I don't have to spend 20 minutes shopping and packing.
100 % on a general level we need to be able to prep "loadouts" down from FPS all the way to cargo bay configuration and what not
@sebastianbryant4216 won't matter. People will find a way. Or as Ian Malcum would say, "life, finds a way."
Pyro pvp = someone shooting your landed ship and flying off.
u shot at my landed ship first!!!!!!!
It’s the same like pad ramming. Really stupid.
and?
like its not the same as in stanton -.-
@@dayumcraig7657 >like its not the same as in stanton
No. In Stanton most of planet side landing pads are in armistice zone. Ships are immune to weapon damage, you only can ram someone.
Gold is gold no matter where is found. Atomically gold does not change from source to source. Refined gold, is what changes in quality.
The idea of having High or Low quality ore is a joke. CIG should focus on filtering ore, and refining quality process. They need to hire a chemist so that they do not look like idiots.
Unfortunately, the top 1 pvp ship is still behind the paywall.
CIG being CIG
Yeah dude idk why Polaris is even 10000 dollar
are you talking about the F7A mark 2? because you can get that from the executive hanger after doing the contested zones
"[Right now] missiles are super buggy". Going on 4 years now.
There needs to be a clear delineation made between "PvEers" and "Anti-PvPers." In my experience, the majority of PvEers have no issue with PvP in general. It's the Anti-PvPers that make all the noise, all the accusations, and all the copes about "I'm ok with REAL PvP..." etc.
Key distinction.
The game would suck if I felt no fear of anything being possible.
You’re essentially talking about ED players, in my experience it’s the ED players that joined after 2021 because they needed to fill the hole FDev left due to development decisions, they were so used to Solo mode that they now want a forced PVE only mode in SC.
@@s1lentw1nter Yeah that tracks
I know its antidotal but I'm not seeing what y'all are seeing. Yea, the first week it felt like almost everyone who wanted PVP moved to Pyro, but now it feels like all the griefers who are scared to take part in legit PVP are heading back Stanton. When doing ground missions, I haven't been attacked at all in Pyro (maybe because of the system scale but I did get attacked while salvaging), but I've been attacked multiple times in Stanton this week (most of that while flying non-combative ships like the scavenger). With so many combative PVP players in Pyro, it's like there aren't any in Stanton to do bounties or keep the Comm Arrays running. Guess I might make the hornet as my daily driver in Stanton and my peaceful cutter for Pyro.
1:23:11 instead of hangars at outposts, just put shields which prevent ships from approaching the pads at ramming speed. Just like the speed control shields in The Expanse rings.
Pad ramming isn't even a thing. And sometimes it's a last resort option. Also, I recently had to "pad ram" a guy to help him out because he couldn't get to his ship because it glitched into the air because he forgot to turn off the thrusters, so I gently rammed it back down to the ground. Putting in shields to stop "ramming" speed means people will just use non-ramming speed, and then putting in shields to prevent non-ramming speed (which can still do damage) means scenarios like the one I described above wouldn't be doable.
The reddit is wild. Every even lightly pro-pvp comment in the reddit gets downvoted to oblivion.
I'm not a pvp'er, but I like the CZ's and Pyro in general. I avoid fights when I need to, but that's part of the cat and mouse fun. There is plenty of explicitly stated planned pve content,this judt got finished and in-game first. That's fine, it isn't all coming at once. There's going to be pve dungeons, guild rewards, trading, etc.
problem is the contested zones are terribly designed. they are way too linear so it just promotes easy camping. they feel more like their have been designed for PvE.
I can’t log in so how is that good can’t reset character repairs 3.24.3 character what oversight
Me too, it’s a mixed bag of emotions to hear all the fun the patch is - overall happy but wish I could play
Component wise - People want to be able to decide how they build their ship with all the options. Not a paired down option because they either PvP or PvE. Telling them they don't need it because to this and that doesn't matter even if its slightly difference. While PvP is competitive, PvE is also too but in a different way. People like to measure up to one another even its not fighting one another. It represents a division of choice that doesn't need to be there.
Now, if they are still available outside of contested zones, that is really all that is required even if that is more RNG, or salvage it's still available. Industrial components have higher health which is good because you are less risk to have it destroyed. So they all have uses, not just tier A mil spec. But everyone wants to have the options regardless of gameplay style.
It’s not about “locking out”, it’s about making the other component categories desirable for different reasons.
You say you want choices but choices have to mean something, there has to be cons which make a mili component undesirable for a miner for instance
Stealth and military components are only good for other unrelated game loops right now because it’s an unfinished system.
We can’t look at whats meta/desirable now as the be and end all
Lots more changes to come with components so let them cook
A rare occurrence of Focus is on PVP this patch but other game loops get their attention in the future as they always do.
People freaking out about this are being childish as usual
@@0Metatron I hear ya. I didn't mention anything about 'locking out' in my post (as far as I can see but I dont have my glasses on.lol). Personally I know they will have other things coming out to assist PvE A tier gear acquisition (PvE missions, Siege, etc), and the second half of the comment mentions the other ways you can probably get things even now.
However the post is explaining why telling people what they 'only need' for a given play style isn't a solution to these complaints. Because A tier (Mil and Stealth) components have uses in PvP or PvE. That would be like telling a PvP player he didn't need a Vulture because it doesn't fit their play style... so why complain about it? Well they may want a Vulture for various reasons. As well as they may also want to match a A tier industrial components for a certain PvP reason with other Mil components.
Now I get no one is telling PvEers you cant get these, you just have to brave PvP to do so. PvPers braving PvE content is just boring to them, flipping that is not the same proposition with a PvE to PvP switch.
But I digress. This about about efficiency. And if you want the best efficiency even in PvE even by a hair, that is improvement. And no one wants to leave any efficiency on the table. PvE is competitive as well because people all want the best. So if one can kill a PvE ship in 8 seconds vs 12, that is desirable. Sure you can kill a Hill giant with a +3 long sword. But just about everyone will opt for the +5 sword every time. PvP or PvE.
Also everyone is not freaking out other than certain loud members of the community. But, most comments or have concerns shouldn't be seen as freaking out nor are they being childish.
At least no more than content creators, PVPers do yelling on stream, getting irritated about issues, MM, CIG decisions, etc. Punching chair's etc. (Just teasing Mike here lol)
Honestly, I see the PvP crew being the most emotional about MM than anything the PvE crew has done. I haven't see many TH-cam videos from PvEers 'crying', it's mainly PvPers complaining about them or MM and making complete videos on it. Clearly they are the most passionate and aggressive of the two groups.
@@0Metatron Yep they act like they aren't getting crafting
@@Rated_xv Well telling them they have to wait doesn't mean they don't feel disappointment. After all, this is the first full system in years. How long will they need to wait for that? So its fair for them to be disappointed when they have to worry about even browsing the new system.
@@ephalanx1 I hear where your coming from the full system PVP thing is disappointing for them. But the game has literally been 90 percent PVE in terms of content and core gameloops. PVPers I believe have SPK, Ghosthollow, (which both are not worth doing in terms of making any Auec), and now finally their 3rd content activity being these CZs.
I kind of understand finally a new full system besides Stanton being PVP but people gotta relax on the CZs and the loot they get. The game is nowhere near being close to being finished we need to stop drawing the line like its the end of the games existence...There are more features and systems coming... We have had mainly PVE content for years with a sprinkle of PVP content. All I am saying is let the PVPers have something worth to do for once...
"People aren't just going to come and blow up your entire base and move in and call it their own."
Tell that to every A2 owner that bought the ship just to watch things go BOOM! I want to see you try to avoid getting glassed by a bomb drop. Even with defense turrets. I'd sit there with a lawn chair and a bag of seanuts.
didnt they specifically say during the base building panel that bases would have shield generators to specifically stop A2 bombs or any other arial attack, forcing a ground invasion?
When all the mechanics are in what does it look like for fighter pilots will they just outright blow up or will they get disabled more often so they can possibly be salvaged and repaired also will there be an automatic ejection if the power plant is about to explode or some sort of timer?
2:48 boy I wish the game worked for me ahhhh
The best components locked behind PVP is temporary. CZs have to be tested right now so the incentive is high. Once they are tested, the the incentive will go down. PvErs just have to wait. Once there's instance PVE content, that instance PVE content will get the highest rewards, not CZs.
Considering every dev has been saying "higher risk, higher rewards" for well over a year now, I highly suspect you are wrong.
It's not temporary CIG have stated this is the way forward. High risk = High Reward. The highest rewards will be locked behind content that contains PVP.
@@JollygreenFullSteam that will kill the game because for an MMO to survive, its got to be all about PvE. PvP is often a sideshow. there is just such a minority who are interested in PvP that it will not work if they lock good loot behind PvP. it also makes the game boring as it becomes predictable where the good loot is. we need to be able to fine top tier loot anywhere randomly, not just in defined areas then looting in general will become repetitive and not exciting. There needs to be that small chance of randomly coming across top tier loot when you least expect to.
Great discussion. Pyro just really shakes everything up in a good way for pvp and pve and the CZs just so good.
Love the video Mike you should do an interview with a couple of top pirates and discuss what pve guys can do to be less of an easy target we would love pve guys to get more skilled at defending them selfs
The State of PVP in Star Citizen 4.0 - players shoot each other in the back, that is all pvp. Shoot first - die last.
ok chill
. Found the PvE player type they were talking about in this podcast. 😂
Basically GTA Online
@@crispy9175>Found the PvE player type they were talking about in this podcast
Yesterdays evening I spent at Chalwa beach doing quests, there are many players normally, ships randomly going red, people shoot NPC in settlements. let me describe my experience.
I rammed Andromeda with Polaris just because I didn't like him, oneshot red Sabre with F8C missiles, bursted red Guardian, bursted red Hornet, shot random guy in the settlement because I had quest there, tried to burst red 400i but forgot how thick it is, rammed a rock during a fight.
My Polaris was dumbfired by Eclipse for practice maybe, lost engines drowned in the sea, my F8C was oneshot by Sabre missiles possibly in revenge, was bursted by another F8C, I was sniped in the settlement's airlock by camper. There were no duels, no chances for them, no one gives anyone any chance to fight back. There are like 20 whites on the radar, you just catch 4 missiles and a burst from nowhere and you dead. This is what I mean by saying players shoot each over in the back. And all this absolutely for no goals, just free for all stupidity with no consequences. Go fly over Chalwa and you'll see ships going red, you want kill them but then next moment they going white again, then going red again, then going back white. This is not pvp, this is a pointless boring mess.
And if you don't want to participate in this mess but whant to do rep quests - you can't avoid it, Chalwa is one of few quest hubs. I don't even want to mention cargo traders in Pyro, they are generally fkd.
@@crispy9175 >Found the PvE player type they were talking about in this podcast.
You see, I answered you here, describing my pvp experience at Chalwa, but it was deleted, despite the fact that the text contained no insults, no toxicity, no hateful speech, nothing. Because people who you listen to in this podcast are so much pvp experts that they can't even stand someone talking in comments about how actually pvp looks in PU.
I don’t necessarily think an industrial power plant should have a lot more dots in those sections. Or maybe it should lock more dots in certain sections - and they’re locked there so they can’t all be removed?
Or final solution: industrial power plants give additional benefits i.e. +20% to laser stability.
Its good we got server meshing as the lead engineer who built it, just left CIG.
Bounties in Pyro should be gang rep related. build up enough rep with a gang and you get bounty missions for opposing gang affiliates with renown. With no comms sats to shut down they should just get their last known updated when they come into radar range of your gangs affiliated landing zones or if members come into contact elsewhere.
also you may have come to this conclusion later but i am about 30 mins in to the video and wanted to get this thought down before i forgot
Tarkov (multi player) and EvE are very PvP competitive games - not just from a combat perspective compared to most MMO's which are more cooperative. SC was not pitched as a competitive PvP focused game. It really is counter to the initial theme of the game. Perception plays a big part of being compared to those games and what people know of them. Many are not salivating for that game play. They would just play those game for that. Also telling them they don't get it or are not understanding what is fun about them ignores the fact that many of them are aware and have played these games. They simply aren't fond of they style of play being mimicked in SC. Why do people think PvE players don't know what they are missing?
Tarkov is not an MMO
Because in other MMOs you still have the feeling of being alone even with thousands around you and nobody wants that for SC, its not organic nor does it feel like a living universe, when every player is in his own instance. Lets leave 20+ yo MMO mechanics out of SC, the game will balance itself out, especially with local authorities coming back in. If they ever divide the playerbase in pve & pvp servers, the game will die just as ship sales, if i do pve i wont buy any ship irl since i can just grind it without any risk or competition, if i play pvp there are only a few meta ships from wich i only need one. Nevermind that it gets boring as hell, the reason to grind is to one up ur competition and the reason to pvp is to test ur skills or to get easy money, but grinding to buy your second salvage ship gets boring just as doing pvp against fighters that have no cargo just for the sake of pvp.
@@Fragnatix Sorry I shouldn't have put other. Multiplayer is the correct term.
@@DerDrecksack87 The point of the post is that what I get is that people dont want this to be Tarkov or EvE. Especially PvE players. Im not saying there should be no PVP or advocating for PvE servers. It's saying that PvP is a smaller portion of the game and not its sole game play mode, ala Planetside, Battlefield, Tarkov.
@@DerDrecksack87 Also I dont feel alone in other MMO's. Maybe that is how you feel. And yes, lets leave out the 20+ yo MMO mechanics. Additionally what may be boring to you may be fun to someone else. There is that.
From what I gathered over the last 12 years of SC dev, is that SC was facilitating the world with 9 to 1 NPC/Players. Which felt fine. I am sure people are fine with that changing as well to even more players so long as the immersion is there. Players playing in overly anarchist ways is not immersive.
Not sure I like knowing who’s in the server or area. I think it would be better to know who’s in the area or server by keeping an eye on comms in the area. Reading chat and seeing that a pvpr is in the area.
33:00 instead of an accurate player list I would like to see fresh warp signatures at gates that hint at certain ship typed.
I agree with a lot of points, but lets not have stims that instantly magically help you carry 100kg more weight etc.
What do you do in Star Citizen for eight hours a day for multiple days? There isn’t enough content for that.
I agree with everything these two talked about. I think factions should be stronger in Pyro and rep level flagging players of opposing factions as good to kill with some sort of reward. Outpost in Pyro could shift control from one faction to another, and players can influence that. Tarkov barter system would be great. Especially in remote areas like Pyro. In fact I think is should be the modus operandi. PvE would benefit from more depth. Components need to have greater meaning. Especially with power and power consumption. I like the idea of Industrial being large powerful / power hungry machines that shine like as star on radar. Weapons, armor, and vehicles / ships sould have a million billion components. Okay, maybe that's too much, but I love tweaking and testing, sue me.
All the stuff about the copmonents is coming with resource management. They delayed resource management out of 4.0 so they could at least get server meshing stable.
PvE in Pyro is plainly a cost benefit analysis.
Right now PvE in Pyro makes literally ZERO sense!
PvP Players are literally camping at the cargo locations to Gank Your Stuff!
I'll stay in Stanton until other star systems are in place.
I've been able to loot around pyro and run missions mostly un bothered
@frogger2011ify Cool!
Stay away from Sheperds Rest
I'm seeing the opposite, but I'm doing mercenary ground missions. I'm not seeing anyone in Pyro, but the second I enter a bunker or distribution center in Stanton my ships being blown up or when exiting someone with bad aim is camping the elevator with a grenade launcher.
@Pr0t0typeSky The PvP'ers know exactly where the expensive trade goods are.
I won't gamble a 1.5Mil load while every time I've gone for goods they are letting me land but then attacking after I fly away.
Just not worth it.
I don’t think the PVE guys are so against PVP as you are both saying. It’s the types of PVP that have them bummed out. Getting pirated, getting bounty hunted, getting attacked because you’re part of an enemy faction…etc. that is all great, fun, and immersive. It’s the immersion breaking griefing and murder hobo’ery that ruins the game for the guys who want an immersive space game and not a PVP competition game with a space skin. Players hanging outside stations waiting for players to land or take off so they can gank them for Lols is not fun and it’s not immersive to the lore. A gang or faction controlling that station would not tolerate some psycho killer rando blowing away all ships trying to land for no reason. It’s immersion breaking. Players that just troll landing pads so they can blow up parked ships for no reason are the same….Lawless does not mean that gang factions in a non government controlled system wouldn’t have their own codes of conduct. That’s immersive. CIG now has a griefer problem. Not a PVP Vs PVE problem. They need away to incentivize PVP’rs to take part in immersive forms of PVP. Pirating, faction wars, bounty hunting, assignations of players with prices on their heads. They need to also have consequences for murder hobos. I think if this was addressed you would hear much less complaining from the PVE guys. Some of the most fun I’ve had in SC is when I was pirated in a reclaimer and they wanted the ship intact.
Very well said.
exactly. i am trying to mind my own business doing missions and i land my ship to do some fps mission and my ship just gets blown up every time and now there are no consequences in pyro. its such dumb game design. why is my ships still appearing on players radar when I turn it fully off.
Nah. Pure cope. Sorry.
Sorry bud that's not griefing and if you're falling for it...well skill issues not gonna lie.
@@CitizenScott @frogger2011ify
Nah, he's right.
Vergjil saying turrets aren't useless is mental, they still are by in large not able to actually hit any lightfighters harrassing the big ships, meaning fighters are still the absolute be all end all of combat. I feel like the feud that Vergjil and A1 are having genuinely affects Vergjils public communication, just to disagree with valid concerns about multicrew raised by A1
19:32 you meant flak correct? o7
How have you not found groups of players. We were in a Polaris and ran in to 4 crewed Polaris with fighters in one night
I'm on holiday away so can't play but before I left I got a handful of hours and the AI seemed to work great in fps for bunkers for about 3-4 missions that I got to do, Cargo missions seemed to work ok, still a few bugs with ship hangers etc ,but felt like a great step forward, and it was noticible that other players were around at landing zones and outposts.
The daylight savings time of podcasts
Useless,outdated, and unnecessary? That’s harsh.
I cant log in been 3 days have a 60029 error. 😢
it sounds fun and good, wish i could QT or use the map the first time i open it lol
Great episode
Server tickrate is still garbage depending on where you hang around, especially around Crusader since everyone and their dog is hanging around there.
There's player bounties in Pyro, plenty of them. What the hell is Vergil talking about?
when we need to spend more on maintanance, maybe civilian stuff should be cheap to keep up.
industrial being high power and robust with huge signature
milatary components having high power, being robust but having high maintanance cost
stealth having mediocre stats and maybe also high maintanance cost for stealth values
and competition like they are already just raw power with minimal durability
Repair costs mean nothing if we can just claim our ships.
I've never read so many horrible takes on Pyro. What you're seeing now is short lived. I've played Eve much longer than SC (I've played SC 7 years), and all of you can't see this game is going down the same road. When Orgs come into play, Pyro will become safer for some, and a death sentence for others. If they introduce cloaking devices a semi-balance will come in to play. Let there be no doubt, PVE'rs will be financing the PVP'rs in their Orgs. The Org with the most PvE'rs will take control of Pyro, and the PVE'rs will begin to move into Pyro and do their money making "jobs" there. There will be One Org in control of Pyro eventually, and that will last until the Org falls to internal strife or to a espionage or Intel/Counter intel org, whose whole purpose is to take over your Org and pillage it. It's going to get so much more frustrating for the PVP'rs like we have now that are only interested in the PVP fight. You all are going to find out what real power is in an Org. What your doing now, is child's play PVP. It's for the kids. Wait until in game politics and thirst for power comes into play. Trust no one. I can't wait to read the stories in Star Citizen about the org leader who went to bed one night, and while sleeping their entire Org was taken over by the people they put in to key positions with the power to plunder, and all the resources, ships, etc are gone, and up for sale to another Org that hired the Espionage Org (real PVP without a shot fired). Good Times. FPS/Ship PVPr's like we have now, have no idea what's coming. It's like some of you think Avenger_One knows what he's talking about. He's clueless. So clueless. You all playing checkers when the game is chess. Real life come into play in games built like this. Wait until they wield their power on CiG... It's going to be good times!
I don't think CIG is interested in EVE levels of toxicity and paranoia, so I doubt they'd enable, or even tolerate, many of the things that enable EVE's org politics.
Coolers also dont do anything and arent factored in atm. You could literally take them out your ship and nothing changes.
Not entirely true but close. I’ll let you figure it out.
yea i also dont want the PvE vs PvP discussions anymore,...
It’s all good but need no bugs to play and need to cater a little more to solo and starter ships
honestly anyone that comes online to do this just stop with the cant show your face. no no no and if not then do not come to something like this
yo i still cant play. got on 2 days after release and now im stuck on a busted af shard that doesnt know how to kick me off of it 🤣
Resume @42:00
wish the hull c worked :')
so.............CIG have created PVP arenas. that's great. so why am i still being griefed when doing PVE missions in Pyro? why have CIG not put in the systems to stop his from happening? why is their no consequences for the player randomly shooting ships? 12 years in btw.
Cause it's Pyro?
The PvP area is Pyro.
@@518UN4 Pyro is a system with PvE missions. very simple to understand. there are PvE missions and PvP missions.
@@4tonmike not sure if you can read but I clearly said PvE missions.
@@ddha0000
I was under the assumption that Pyro was a de facto kill on sight sector for now, at least while the sector rep system still unfinished. I do agree however with the 12 years comment.
They tell me Pyro is where griefers can get hard from tickling each other's pixels.
A guy who does not show his face so cringe. Please bring on Avenger one, at least he has the balls to show himself.
Who is the toaster?
People have forgotten. Fugitives from Stanton that break out of prison can now run to Pyro. :) ..All bounty hunters need much is higher pay for live bounties and cuffs,.
Can't afford to repair your ship? Claim and go take a piss or get a sandwich. It's free and the wait is negligible compared to how long it takes everything else in this game.
So sad I missed this... I had a lot to say on this topic :(
What I don't understand from many PVE only type players is why don't they realize they can speak to orgs and offer to farm for them in exchange for membership and protection, then they can actually do missions in Pyro with real PVP escorts and protections? It's completely fun as a mofo. smarter not harder
Because in reality its not about pve or pvp, its about people with main character syndrome, asking for help or working with/for others would hurt their ego. I and many others i know mainly play pve and nobody is pissed if we have a proper pvp encounter, its actually cool and reminds me that we are not just 500 ppl doing separate bunker missions.
Because a lot of PVE players are not trying to integrate into large social groups for many reasons. Many don't want to deal with the drama of the interactions, etc. A lot of people are in and out with the game because they have lives outside the game. Others are casual types that may want to play with a couple close friends and that is it. Speaking to orgs is not something they want to engage in. How one chooses to enjoy the game and what is fun for them is subjective. Some may have more time to devote to those relationships or are comfortable with just interacting with practically anyone. Also many people don't want to be dependent on others for purely a game which is supposed to be fun.
Many pve players are literally afraid to communicate with other people and I honestly don't know how these people function in the real world.
@@rooster1012 i bet there a lot of those who have zero social or communication skills, but most often than not its just spite. They write on forums that griefing is not piracy, yet when they get properly pirated they opt for self destruct or bed logging. They are not interested in any interaction outside their loop, gives them the feeling of being in charge.
@@DerDrecksack87 It is not spite. Or even social skills. Its preference. Most people are comfortable with smaller groups of people because the communication is more intimate. You're painting them in a negative light when this is really normal for the majority of people. It's not about being in charge. The issue with PKing is intent many times the reasoning is there is none other than to inflate the PKers ego at their expense. That isn't fun for many. SC was not pitched as a highly 'competitive' PvP game.
123 :)
Hoi
Heard nothing but shitty things about virgil.
o7
Sorry… No Base raiding in Stanton?! The Shields only defend against ordinance, don’t they? You just have to raid on-foot!
Sandi is THE problem, if you're new don't buy star citizen, it's a griefers paradise and buggy as hell.
Finally a good show