Man that is ridiculous. That range really would have gotten a piece of my mind if that happened to me. There is nothing wrong with shooting Brown Bear. That is the majority of what I shoot in my AR and also if I can find it for my handguns. I hope you are able to find a new range. Keep up the good work man.
Lucky for me in my area of California, steel cased ammo is O.K. A few years ago At my local range they tried to implement a similar policy. The club members as well as a large amount of everyday shooters boycotted the range. The range ended up allowing steel ammo and added to there backstop. I would recommend something similar if there are many people who feel the same as you, which im sure there are. Hell id be pissed!!
The reason most indoor ranges do not allow bi-metal jacketed ammo is that it caused sparks on the steel backstop. At my local range they use ground up rubber tires to stop ricochets. The change was made around here when a local range burned down a few years ago due to bi-metal ammo. Check out surplusammo they have PMC bronze 45 auto 309.00 per 1k . which is the same I can buy Wolf for. We only have one range here that requires you buy their ammo and range time is free.
I couldn't find any brass ammo for my Texas license to carry class anywhere in Houston Tx-- 9mm Makarov. I had handloads for the 9mm and a 38 special. No handloads allowed for the class either, I think it's a state law thing. The range found one box of Monarch steel case ammo and let me use it, same stuff that Academy carries. Twice the steel case jammed, I got the gun cleared and passed the test with a score of 201 out of 250,, 50 shots. Ranges were 7, 15, & 25ft. Class was over an hour before they closed and they let me show what the little Makarov would do with handloads. 4.5 grs Unique, 95gr XTP,,, CCI primers in 9x19 cut down cases. Loaded 7 magazines with 50 rounds, shot all shots at 25ft non stop--perfect score of 250. It wasn't the first time I'd had jams when using steel cases, but it will be the last. The range owner said the bi-metal bullets damage the range.
At the range,most folks toss the spent cases in bins provided,or it is all cleaned up at days end. Scrap brass and copper for that matter has always been a recycled item that if collected over time,can provide extra income from scrap sales,or sales to pickup services for the reloading market. The Mix of now more popular cheap steel spent cases have no resale quick profit use in scrap metal sales.That makes it worthless litter to be picked up and tossed.No extra cash for that, just a headache.
I also shoot at the range you mentioned and I also was informed that I could not shoot my M855 5.56 ammo. It is brass cased copper jacketed hybrid penetrator round. the bullet is part lead part steel core in a copper jacket. the brown bear ammo that you claim they won't let you shoot is a polymer coated steel case bimetal jacket. The copper exterior of the bullet is only about .005 inch thick with a steel jacket underneath about 1/32 inch thick. the fact that is steel cased means nothing.
Yeah, there's a range in my area that won't allow steel case ammo. I think it's because they can't reload it or sell the casings. They even send a guy in there to sweep up the brass before you can even pick up your own empties!
bottomline is cash!....Indoor/outdoor ranges(complete with fire rates/parking fees/liability insurance) are few, and far between down in my neck of the woods, and are hard to secure so we head out to the farm to our own makeshift range(complete with old Oak stump)Mil-surplus ammo as well as Silver bear, Brown bear, Tulammo all fire as good as Rem/Win/Fed thru my firearms also
Don't go back. I agree with you %100. Do you have to pay per firearm you bring as well. I live in Japan for my job, but when I came home the last time to TX I went to one of the out door ranges to shoot a few of my firearms, and I had to pay a range fee, and like 6 or 8 dollars each additional firearm. I don't know if that is common practice in most states, but where I lived before, in NM, you payed a range fee and that was it.
The reason ranges ban this stuff, is because steel cased ammo has a steel core. So the bullet has 3 layers. Lead, steel jacket, and a very thin copper jacket. The reason for this is to use less copper and cut costs. However, the fact that the middle jacket of the bullet is Steel, is why ranges ban the use of it. Because the copper jacket is so thin, it shears off, exposing the steel, steel makes sparks, which in an place that carries unburt powder or residue, could cause an explosion.
Yes its sad. We had a good 300 yard range till the farmer behind the range kept crying about finding rounds in the field. Now I go back in the woods and shoot.
that blows! that ammo is a lot better than the other ammo that is manufactured here, in fact i got a thousand rounds of both brown and silver bear, i never had problems with it
That is really weird. I understand the indoor ranges banning it because of the steel core ammo damaging the backstop. I go there quite often, and the last time I was there it was that you couldn't use incendiary or tracer ammo. I've wanted to find an outdoor range that allows rapid fire, but there ain't any around here except for the Pit. I'm really thinking if I can afford it I might have to join WWCCA. That just sucks.
@surplusdriller Here in Southern California, most ranges don't like steel ammo because they afraid a spark might cause a large fire. During the summer months here that is a real possibility. During my Time in the Marine Corps while training at Camp Pendleton I have seen fires started from sparks in the target area. I can't speak for other areas of the country.
You're right about the growing trend! Throughout middle TN, some of the open ranges are posting "no steel cartridges". My buddy at the wildlife services said something about properties of the bullet and its safety concerns, especially surplus. Good luck
AGREED, this is total bullshit, you should buy the cheapest ammo that will function in your guns because allows you to literally buy more ammo and literally practice more, total horse shit. I also hate ranges that force you to buy their ammo at jacked up prices.
God I hate shooting ranges. Luckily I found out that there is this sand pit I found where everyone goes. The local ranges didn't let me shoot my mosin ammo saying that FMJ will put holes through their backstop. I get some of theirs and they gave them to me in a baggie claiming that it was softpoint ammo and would fall apart on impact. Being eager to shoot, I didn't even check the ammo and just went in. It was when I opened the bag that I saw that it was the same exact ammo. Never went back there
Thats not right, they are way outta line for that. I am fortunate to live 2 miles from my club in NW Ohio, where there is no parking fee, 50 bucks a yr membership and have unlimited access to 6 ranges, with no range officer buggin.I can not believe that they wont let you shoot the brown bear. I have never heard of a range rule on that.
For a number of reasons you should find a new range. I don't know much about that ammo but there is crap ammo out there. When I was still green I used CCI blazers. That crap dirtied my 1911 up terribly and sheared the extractor off after about 200 rounds. Expensive lesson for me, but I don't touch that stuff anymore.
All the ranges in southern california have that same rule, Lame as hell. we drive 2.5 hours to the desert to shoot now. same reason, I can't afford ammo like PMC everytime i want to shoot.
The real reason they don't like bi-metal ammo is because they make less money off the scrap brass because it has to be sorted to take all the steel and aluminum out.
Same happening here in the state of Missouri, Just recently they made a change to brass only, I'm sorry but its over $20 for a box of 20round brass ammo. I use wolf because i can afford it and only it.
Most ranges down here in South Texas are like that also a bunch of rules and regulations so i stoped going there and hopefully they go out of business soon. Now i go to an outdoor range whrere i pay $50 a year and get a key to go in and its open 24 hours a day.
They don't like them because they can't reload them. They like range fees and free brass... I have the same holster for my G17 and it has only been good to me.
They don't like them because they can't reload them. They like range fees and free brass... I have the same holster for my G17 and it has only been good to me. I've dumped aboyt 2k rds through a POF and Adams Arms upper and have yet to have an issue with reliability when it comes to Brown Bear.
for indoor range i would say soviet rounds are hard on back stop but for outdoor well that is something else just never leave brass you can always sale it
If you payed attention to the vidio, Jason "hathcocked" said they brought out a magnet to test the ammo.I dont think paint would help. I dont think that you know that Jason is no longer with us.
My local range (since defunct) tried this bullshit and banned hollowpoint and "softpoint" bullets. This is only done because ranges SELL ammo. A little less attitude and more professionalism would go a long way toward legitimizing this industry.
I understand your position. To pay to get into a range and then have some a**hole tell you your ammo isn't up to his standard. Tell him to stand in front and tell you how it works !
Sorry guys but the bit about bi-metal jackets causing fires with sparks is a little stupid. Don't forget that in order for the sparks to happen you have to fire the bullet out of a firearm, a process that produces a somewhat noticeable amount of noise and heat. Heat that comes from a large fireball and the end of your rifle. A large fireball that is much more likely to "start fires" than any spark from a backstop. Combine that with the fact that any range that stores it's powders near the backs
question for you. call them up and ask if it is because they use steel bullet traps and if they says "yes" i would look at a bullet puller. basicly they dont want steel core rounds starting a fire or damaging thier steel traps and because most of the range masters are stupid they dont know how to test the round propper and a magnet will just stick to the case.
What a bunch of crap!! Why would anyone shoot at a range that does not allow you to bring your own ammo?! That place should be a ghost town with frigging crickets chirping in there! I'm on a budget too so I handload my .45 and .223 ammo. You telling me I can't shoot that? I would never go there again, ever! And oh by the way, there is nothing wrong with brown bear ammo.
what u need to do is take about 5 mags full of ammo but the last four rounds put brass so when they go check ur good 2 go ....or move from the place ur at
I have shot brown bear and silver bear through multiple guns and never had a problem. I agree with your assessment. Why pay three times as much for ammo?
I think its that the core is steel in many russian rounds, I snuck some tula ammo into the range and every time it hit the back plate sparks flew everywhere. They do not want holes in the back plates.
Was the range indoor? I heard the same thing about the steel core setting fires. The closest indoor range lets you shoot whatever and doesn't even check you at all. However, they don't have the traps to take rifles:( I don't think they honestly care because of the big city I live in (Orlando), there is so many indoor ranges, they have to compete or go under. I have never once had an issue shooting Tula or anything non brass like Aluminum. My guess is they just want your brass for reloading purposes to make even more money off of you. I wouldn't go to a range like that anymore and slam them to whoever I spoke with to avoid them. They will change their tune then!
+Acc0rd79 It has nothing to do with the Core. m855 is steel tipped. It's the steel jacket of the bullet. if the jacket strikes the ground it can spark and start fires with the unburnt powered on the floor.
If a out door rang doesn't let u shoot steel cased ammo that is a peice of shit range. If your gun can't run steel cased ammo you got a price of shit in your hands a real quality gun should be able to run steel case ammo with out no problem.
Ann arbor arms has rubber back stops so steel cased ammo is allowed, the range you probably went to had steel back stops which they will say no steel cased ammo, I shoot steel cased at my local range they just say as long as it is not steel core or bi metal jacketed ammo.
It's all about $. The only way to fight it is through your wallet and let the bumbs know your $ is going elsewhere. They probably won't care until they see large numbers leave. Check some local clubs or start one.
Yeah that's messed up sir. That's why I go out to the desert to shoot. Dunno how far you would have to drive to get to BFE near Detroit. I am like you...I can only afford BB, Wolf, and surplus ammo.
It's because the ranges sell/use the brass people leave behind and they don't want to hand sort the steel out of it. B*llsh*t in my book. I have a range here that bans it and one that is just dilligent about making sure people put the steel cases in the trash not the brass buckets. It's hard to find a good range near a city these days.
Next time you go to that punk ass outdoor range, duck tape a piece of dynamite to the back of a paper target and load up some brand new Winchester brass... When you shoot the target and it explodes, tell the range-master it was a hot factory load!
Did they say why? Maybe they thought it was steel core(is it?). Send an email to they supervisor let him know. Maybe they screwed it up. BTW my range doesn't let me bring ammo(indoor). We had a range around here that did but some idiot shot API ammo and the range burned down. So ranges around here down require you to by there ammo.
i think that the people who make these rules like you can shoot steel ammo at their range is stupid. because now they have just lost a customer or if you tell your friends that shoot steel ammo it can have a ripple effect. and they could close down cause of how many people shoot steel ammo, but im no expert but if u dont want the steel they could at least melt down the steel and sell it as scrap,idk but whatever
@hathcocked The comment about the cases were geared towards the other comments about how they only care about selling the brass. yes it is hard to navigate the ranges web site, yes the rules could be put on the ranges site and not under Info for new shooters but you are wrong in saying that it doesn't state that steel jacketed ammo is not allowed look at #8 under shooting rules on their website
@hathcocked Yeah, to be honest my indoor range doesn't always have range officers down on the firing line. I never seen anyone being really unsafe but if I did I could just yell up for one of those guys. Not to mention say something to the guy myself.
thats the ways it is where i am with an indoor range. i see why because it can damage the trap and cause sparks. What kind of trap if any does this outdoor range use. the outdoor range i use around here has a huge hill behind it and thats the trap.
@hathcocked has very little to do sorting metal....Bi metal rounds have steel in them and that 'kills' the back stops. Lead/copper simple does less damage to the back stops. Check out Strurmgewehre's "Truth about wolf ammo". You want to use bi metal bullets, then you have to accept higher range fees to pay for the damage. But re: notification, how many times did someone that works at the range come in contact with you, and didn't mention anything....or even POST it anywhere ON SITE
I would bet heavy coin that if steel jacketed ammo was made in the USA, they wouldn't ban it. It looks to me like a bit of "anti Russian" sentiment. I cannot for the life of me see any difference between a soft steel bullet jacket and gilding metal. What's the reason for this ban???
I totally understand shooting on a limited budget. I started hand loading for just that reason. You can load your own for what you pay for brown bear. the only down side is the initial investment in tools and components.
I'm in the same boat. I just found out that there is a new indoor range here like 10 minutes away with a 50 yard rifle range, can't even shoot bi-metal. Pisses me off, my only option is to go to Shoot Straight with a 25 yard rifle range which is like 20 minutes away. My only other option is a 1 hour drive to an outdoor range once a month when they have free Sunday which ends at noon. Annoying as F'
Crap, I just found out what happened ! I was reading other comments and realized he had passed away. Was my first of his vids that I had watched. Godspeed Jason!
was it the case that stuck, the bullet, or do both stick? Because my range allows steal casing but if the bullet itself sticks it is not allowed and i would really like to pick some of this stuff up.
@hathcocked I used to be big into IPSC and so would shoot 1000 rounds/week through my Glock 21. At that rate a reloading press was a must. I have a Dillon. It's 18-20 years old and still going strong. The initial investment is a bit high but ammo will be half price after that.
This is "steel jacketed" ammo. Not just a steel case but also a steel jacketed bullet (aka bi-metal bullet). Now they do claim that it is a "mild steel" jacket but it is steel none the less and it is 3.5 to 4 times harder than a copper jacketed round. This product will cause premature barrel wear, even a chromelined or a nitride treated barrel. For example if your barrel is good for 10,000 rounds using normal copper jacketed ammo, steel jacketed ammo may reduce that to 3,000 to 4,000 rounds barrel life. If you care about your weapons, don't use this ammo. Research info: www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 and www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_scale
Vinny B. The lucky gunner test is neat but not many people are out shooting at that volume or rate. Getting a gun that hot and continuing to shoot causes much faster barrel wear. If you get 10000 rounds out of a barrel (you may get quite a bit more depending on your volume and rate of fire) you can buy multiple AR barrels with the money saved over that 10000 rounds.
Vinny B. What a load of bs. People have been shooting bi metal rounds for years and it shows little to know difference. Bunch of ammo snobs if you ask me.
I had a friend take me to a gun range once that was all I care to visit a gun range . Everyone I seen at the gun range was a Gangster Thug or on crack and drinking beer in the food and snak deli the range operates .
I sure am glad that my wife and I have our own small range here at home. I don't have a lot of money to spend on ammo. We are on retirement fixed incomes. I live outside of Durand MI
yea I know the feeling i went bought ammo and clays to go shoot my shotgun drove 45 min to the range just to find out it was closed for maintenance so hope fully I will get to got tomorrow and have sum fun.
Man that is ridiculous. That range really would have gotten a piece of my mind if that happened to me. There is nothing wrong with shooting Brown Bear. That is the majority of what I shoot in my AR and also if I can find it for my handguns. I hope you are able to find a new range. Keep up the good work man.
Lucky for me in my area of California, steel cased ammo is O.K. A few years ago At my local range they tried to implement a similar policy. The club members as well as a large amount of everyday shooters boycotted the range. The range ended up allowing steel ammo and added to there backstop. I would recommend something similar if there are many people who feel the same as you, which im sure there are. Hell id be pissed!!
The reason most indoor ranges do not allow bi-metal jacketed ammo is that it caused sparks on the steel backstop. At my local range they use ground up rubber tires to stop ricochets. The change was made around here when a local range burned down a few years ago due to bi-metal ammo. Check out surplusammo they have PMC bronze 45 auto 309.00 per 1k . which is the same I can buy Wolf for. We only have one range here that requires you buy their ammo and range time is free.
I couldn't find any brass ammo for my Texas license to carry class anywhere in Houston Tx-- 9mm Makarov. I had handloads for the 9mm and a 38 special. No handloads allowed for the class either, I think it's a state law thing. The range found one box of Monarch steel case ammo and let me use it, same stuff that Academy carries. Twice the steel case jammed, I got the gun cleared and passed the test with a score of 201 out of 250,, 50 shots. Ranges were 7, 15, & 25ft. Class was over an hour before they closed and they let me show what the little Makarov would do with handloads. 4.5 grs Unique, 95gr XTP,,, CCI primers in 9x19 cut down cases. Loaded 7 magazines with 50 rounds, shot all shots at 25ft non stop--perfect score of 250. It wasn't the first time I'd had jams when using steel cases, but it will be the last. The range owner said the bi-metal bullets damage the range.
At the range,most folks toss the spent cases in bins provided,or it is all cleaned up at days end. Scrap brass and copper for that matter has always been a recycled item that if collected over time,can provide extra income from scrap sales,or sales to pickup services for the reloading market. The Mix of now more popular cheap steel spent cases have no resale quick profit use in scrap metal sales.That makes it worthless litter to be picked up and tossed.No extra cash for that, just a headache.
I also shoot at the range you mentioned and I also was informed that I could not shoot my M855 5.56 ammo. It is brass cased copper jacketed hybrid penetrator round. the bullet is part lead part steel core in a copper jacket. the brown bear ammo that you claim they won't let you shoot is a polymer coated steel case bimetal jacket. The copper exterior of the bullet is only about .005 inch thick with a steel jacket underneath about 1/32 inch thick. the fact that is steel cased means nothing.
Yeah, there's a range in my area that won't allow steel case ammo. I think it's because they can't reload it or sell the casings. They even send a guy in there to sweep up the brass before you can even pick up your own empties!
bottomline is cash!....Indoor/outdoor ranges(complete with fire rates/parking fees/liability insurance) are few, and far between down in my neck of the woods, and are hard to secure so we head out to the farm to our own makeshift range(complete with old Oak stump)Mil-surplus ammo as well as Silver bear, Brown bear, Tulammo all fire as good as Rem/Win/Fed thru my firearms also
Don't go back. I agree with you %100. Do you have to pay per firearm you bring as well. I live in Japan for my job, but when I came home the last time to TX I went to one of the out door ranges to shoot a few of my firearms, and I had to pay a range fee, and like 6 or 8 dollars each additional firearm. I don't know if that is common practice in most states, but where I lived before, in NM, you payed a range fee and that was it.
The reason ranges ban this stuff, is because steel cased ammo has a steel core. So the bullet has 3 layers. Lead, steel jacket, and a very thin copper jacket. The reason for this is to use less copper and cut costs. However, the fact that the middle jacket of the bullet is Steel, is why ranges ban the use of it. Because the copper jacket is so thin, it shears off, exposing the steel, steel makes sparks, which in an place that carries unburt powder or residue, could cause an explosion.
Yes its sad. We had a good 300 yard range till the farmer behind the range kept crying about finding rounds in the field. Now I go back in the woods and shoot.
that blows! that ammo is a lot better than the other ammo that is manufactured here, in fact i got a thousand rounds of both brown and silver bear, i never had problems with it
I feel you brother, too much BS at these ranges in California too
That is really weird. I understand the indoor ranges banning it because of the steel core ammo damaging the backstop. I go there quite often, and the last time I was there it was that you couldn't use incendiary or tracer ammo. I've wanted to find an outdoor range that allows rapid fire, but there ain't any around here except for the Pit. I'm really thinking if I can afford it I might have to join WWCCA. That just sucks.
@surplusdriller Here in Southern California, most ranges don't like steel ammo because they afraid a spark might cause a large fire. During the summer months here that is a real possibility. During my Time in the Marine Corps while training at Camp Pendleton I have seen fires started from sparks in the target area. I can't speak for other areas of the country.
You're right about the growing trend! Throughout middle TN, some of the open ranges are posting "no steel cartridges". My buddy at the wildlife services said something about properties of the bullet and its safety concerns, especially surplus. Good luck
AGREED, this is total bullshit, you should buy the cheapest ammo that will function in your guns because allows you to literally buy more ammo and literally practice more, total horse shit. I also hate ranges that force you to buy their ammo at jacked up prices.
God I hate shooting ranges. Luckily I found out that there is this sand pit I found where everyone goes. The local ranges didn't let me shoot my mosin ammo saying that FMJ will put holes through their backstop. I get some of theirs and they gave them to me in a baggie claiming that it was softpoint ammo and would fall apart on impact. Being eager to shoot, I didn't even check the ammo and just went in. It was when I opened the bag that I saw that it was the same exact ammo. Never went back there
The name of the place is Carter's country by the way. In Spring, TX
It's all part of the "control". I belong to a conservation club. No more public ranges for me!
Could be an insurance thing.
Thats not right, they are way outta line for that. I am fortunate to live 2 miles from my club in NW Ohio, where there is no parking fee, 50 bucks a yr membership and have unlimited access to 6 ranges, with no range officer buggin.I can not believe that they wont let you shoot the brown bear. I have never heard of a range rule on that.
For a number of reasons you should find a new range. I don't know much about that ammo but there is crap ammo out there. When I was still green I used CCI blazers. That crap dirtied my 1911 up terribly and sheared the extractor off after about 200 rounds. Expensive lesson for me, but I don't touch that stuff anymore.
All the ranges in southern california have that same rule, Lame as hell. we drive 2.5 hours to the desert to shoot now. same reason, I can't afford ammo like PMC everytime i want to shoot.
I really, REALLY hate stupid range rules. I almost wanna do a "Stupid Range Rules" series to go along with my "Stupid Gun Laws" series, lol.
The real reason they don't like bi-metal ammo is because they make less money off the scrap brass because it has to be sorted to take all the steel and aluminum out.
Same happening here in the state of Missouri, Just recently they made a change to brass only, I'm sorry but its over $20 for a box of 20round brass ammo. I use wolf because i can afford it and only it.
That sux bud! I live in nor Cal we dont have too many limitations but so Cal has alot of restrictions.
Thats really not a big deal cause in California they will be instituting a new law that you can only bring Snap Caps to the ranges come Jan 1st.
Most ranges down here in South Texas are like that also a bunch of rules and regulations so i stoped going there and hopefully they go out of business soon. Now i go to an outdoor range whrere i pay $50 a year and get a key to go in and its open 24 hours a day.
They don't like them because they can't reload them. They like range fees and free brass... I have the same holster for my G17 and it has only been good to me.
They don't like them because they can't reload them. They like range fees and free brass... I have the same holster for my G17 and it has only been good to me. I've dumped aboyt 2k rds through a POF and Adams Arms upper and have yet to have an issue with reliability when it comes to Brown Bear.
This is the exact reason I plan on living out in the country and owning my own range...
for indoor range i would say soviet rounds are hard on back stop but for outdoor well that is something else just never leave brass you can always sale it
I thought that it was indoor ranges that wouldn't allow you to shoot the steel ammo.
If you payed attention to the vidio, Jason "hathcocked" said they brought out a magnet to test the ammo.I dont think paint would help. I dont think that you know that Jason is no longer with us.
My local range (since defunct) tried this bullshit and banned hollowpoint and "softpoint" bullets. This is only done because ranges SELL ammo. A little less attitude and more professionalism would go a long way toward legitimizing this industry.
that sucks man i love being able to shoot at home. dont gotta pay and i can shoot what i want when i want
@piff235 yeah the pit for sure. i haven't been there in quite some time but probably go this month
They don't like them because they can't reload them. They like range fees and free brass...
I understand your position. To pay to get into a range and then have some a**hole tell you your ammo isn't up to his standard. Tell him to stand in front and tell you how it works !
@KSIbarbasnoo his range could also be one that uses steel bullet traps and the steel core will damage the trap
Sorry guys but the bit about bi-metal jackets causing fires with sparks is a little stupid. Don't forget that in order for the sparks to happen you have to fire the bullet out of a firearm, a process that produces a somewhat noticeable amount of noise and heat. Heat that comes from a large fireball and the end of your rifle. A large fireball that is much more likely to "start fires" than any spark from a backstop. Combine that with the fact that any range that stores it's powders near the backs
black balled is always better then blue balled
Total bull s***; I see no reason why they wouldn't let you shoot that ammo.
question for you. call them up and ask if it is because they use steel bullet traps and if they says "yes" i would look at a bullet puller. basicly they dont want steel core rounds starting a fire or damaging thier steel traps and because most of the range masters are stupid they dont know how to test the round propper and a magnet will just stick to the case.
What a bunch of crap!! Why would anyone shoot at a range that does not allow you to bring your own ammo?! That place should be a ghost town with frigging crickets chirping in there! I'm on a budget too so I handload my .45 and .223 ammo. You telling me I can't shoot that? I would never go there again, ever! And oh by the way, there is nothing wrong with brown bear ammo.
im surprised they have customers find some thing new man don't bother with it. i live in albania all we have is army stuff all steel
I cannot afford to shoot even a third of my firearms at this place in one day it would cost too much @ 6 to 8 bucks extra per firearm.
Fuck 'em. If I can't shoot Wolf(my choice) or steel cased ammo, I can't shoot. My Bushmaster eats everything, so it gets the cheap stuff. :)
What a burn.
what u need to do is take about 5 mags full of ammo but the last four rounds put brass so when they go check ur good 2 go ....or move from the place ur at
I have shot brown bear and silver bear through multiple guns and never had a problem. I agree with your assessment. Why pay three times as much for ammo?
I think its that the core is steel in many russian rounds, I snuck some tula ammo into the range and every time it hit the back plate sparks flew everywhere. They do not want holes in the back plates.
Was the range indoor? I heard the same thing about the steel core setting fires. The closest indoor range lets you shoot whatever and doesn't even check you at all. However, they don't have the traps to take rifles:( I don't think they honestly care because of the big city I live in (Orlando), there is so many indoor ranges, they have to compete or go under. I have never once had an issue shooting Tula or anything non brass like Aluminum. My guess is they just want your brass for reloading purposes to make even more money off of you. I wouldn't go to a range like that anymore and slam them to whoever I spoke with to avoid them. They will change their tune then!
+Acc0rd79 It has nothing to do with the Core. m855 is steel tipped. It's the steel jacket of the bullet. if the jacket strikes the ground it can spark and start fires with the unburnt powered on the floor.
ofacesig just going by what they told me at the range.
I'm not sure I like the rule under any circumstance.
If a out door rang doesn't let u shoot steel cased ammo that is a peice of shit range. If your gun can't run steel cased ammo you got a price of shit in your hands a real quality gun should be able to run steel case ammo with out no problem.
@aWhiskeyTangoFoxtrot -_-" lead would be in the bullet, not the damn shell.
What about The Pit? I heard there are no stupid rules, and it's free. :)
Ann arbor arms has rubber back stops so steel cased ammo is allowed, the range you probably went to had steel back stops which they will say no steel cased ammo, I shoot steel cased at my local range they just say as long as it is not steel core or bi metal jacketed ammo.
It's all about $. The only way to fight it is through your wallet and let the bumbs know your $ is going elsewhere. They probably won't care until they see large numbers leave. Check some local clubs or start one.
and people wonder why i live in the country and want to stay there lol.. yeah i do agree man.. that is crap ranges are doing this stuff.
Yeah that's messed up sir. That's why I go out to the desert to shoot. Dunno how far you would have to drive to get to BFE near Detroit. I am like you...I can only afford BB, Wolf, and surplus ammo.
pay them back by rating them over the net. they will loose alot of business
Yeah that is bogus. It must be because they cant reload the steel cased ammo or something but still that wouldnt make sense.
It's because the ranges sell/use the brass people leave behind and they don't want to hand sort the steel out of it. B*llsh*t in my book. I have a range here that bans it and one that is just dilligent about making sure people put the steel cases in the trash not the brass buckets. It's hard to find a good range near a city these days.
Next time you go to that punk ass outdoor range, duck tape a piece of dynamite to the back of a paper target and load up some brand new Winchester brass... When you shoot the target and it explodes, tell the range-master it was a hot factory load!
dang, I feel for you very much...I wish you could open your own range and put those jerks out of business.
Did they say why? Maybe they thought it was steel core(is it?). Send an email to they supervisor let him know. Maybe they screwed it up. BTW my range doesn't let me bring ammo(indoor). We had a range around here that did but some idiot shot API ammo and the range burned down. So ranges around here down require you to by there ammo.
i think that the people who make these rules like you can shoot steel ammo at their range is stupid. because now they have just lost a customer or if you tell your friends that shoot steel ammo it can have a ripple effect. and they could close down cause of how many people shoot steel ammo, but im no expert but if u dont want the steel they could at least melt down the steel and sell it as scrap,idk but whatever
If you paid for parking or any fees (membership), I'd ask for my money back. That's bullshit...
@hathcocked The comment about the cases were geared towards the other comments about how they only care about selling the brass. yes it is hard to navigate the ranges web site, yes the rules could be put on the ranges site and not under Info for new shooters but you are wrong in saying that it doesn't state that steel jacketed ammo is not allowed look at #8 under shooting rules on their website
Same Bullshit Happened to us Fuck Ranges This days and yesterday we went 1 hour 30 Minutes drive just to shoot Bi Metal Jacket Wolf
@hathcocked Yeah, to be honest my indoor range doesn't always have range officers down on the firing line. I never seen anyone being really unsafe but if I did I could just yell up for one of those guys. Not to mention say something to the guy myself.
thats the ways it is where i am with an indoor range. i see why because it can damage the trap and cause sparks. What kind of trap if any does this outdoor range use. the outdoor range i use around here has a huge hill behind it and thats the trap.
@hathcocked has very little to do sorting metal....Bi metal rounds have steel in them and that 'kills' the back stops. Lead/copper simple does less damage to the back stops. Check out Strurmgewehre's "Truth about wolf ammo". You want to use bi metal bullets, then you have to accept higher range fees to pay for the damage. But re: notification, how many times did someone that works at the range come in contact with you, and didn't mention anything....or even POST it anywhere ON SITE
truth about Wolf ammo
You coulda said your mag had steel liners? if it was polymer.
It looks like your range collects brass for reloading. It could be for their personal use or they sell it.
I would bet heavy coin that if steel jacketed ammo was made in the USA, they wouldn't ban it. It looks to me like a bit of "anti Russian" sentiment. I cannot for the life of me see any difference between a soft steel bullet jacket and gilding metal. What's the reason for this ban???
Is it steel case ammo? They want your brass. If they wont let me keep my cases they can kiss my ass. Most ranges are a waste of time and money.
I totally understand shooting on a limited budget. I started hand loading for just that reason. You can load your own for what you pay for brown bear. the only down side is the initial investment in tools and components.
not to familiar with brown bear.
Is steel ammo cheaper then lead?
I'm in the same boat. I just found out that there is a new indoor range here like 10 minutes away with a 50 yard rifle range, can't even shoot bi-metal.
Pisses me off, my only option is to go to Shoot Straight with a 25 yard rifle range which is like 20 minutes away. My only other option is a 1 hour drive to an outdoor range once a month when they have free Sunday which ends at noon.
Annoying as F'
@pochejoshua Yeah it's a good bit jacked up.
better to go outdoor shooting range
You could just go out into the woods.
Crap, I just found out what happened ! I was reading other comments and realized he had passed away. Was my first of his vids that I had watched. Godspeed Jason!
was it the case that stuck, the bullet, or do both stick? Because my range allows steal casing but if the bullet itself sticks it is not allowed and i would really like to pick some of this stuff up.
I got hit with the same BS about chewing up backstops. Later I found out it was because of the non boxer primers
@hathcocked
I used to be big into IPSC and so would shoot 1000 rounds/week through my Glock 21. At that rate a reloading press was a must. I have a Dillon. It's 18-20 years old and still going strong. The initial investment is a bit high but ammo will be half price after that.
With all these firearms and ammunition is there really any surprised he killed himself?
This is "steel jacketed" ammo. Not just a steel case but also a steel jacketed bullet (aka bi-metal bullet). Now they do claim that it is a "mild steel" jacket but it is steel none the less and it is 3.5 to 4 times harder than a copper jacketed round. This product will cause premature barrel wear, even a chromelined or a nitride treated barrel. For example if your barrel is good for 10,000 rounds using normal copper jacketed ammo, steel jacketed ammo may reduce that to 3,000 to 4,000 rounds barrel life. If you care about your weapons, don't use this ammo. Research info: www.uspsa.org/front-sight-magazine-article.php?Should-I-Buy-BiMetal-Ammo-8 and www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/ and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinell_scale
Vinny B. The lucky gunner test is neat but not many people are out shooting at that volume or rate. Getting a gun that hot and continuing to shoot causes much faster barrel wear. If you get 10000 rounds out of a barrel (you may get quite a bit more depending on your volume and rate of fire) you can buy multiple AR barrels with the money saved over that 10000 rounds.
Vinny B. What a load of bs. People have been shooting bi metal rounds for years and it shows little to know difference. Bunch of ammo snobs if you ask me.
Ever been up to my neck of the woods and tried the DSC? Detroit Sportsman Congress?
I had a friend take me to a gun range once that was all I care to visit a gun range .
Everyone I seen at the gun range was a Gangster Thug or on crack and drinking beer in the food and snak deli the range operates .
It is stupid. Nuff said
what is the reason for not allowing steel cased ammo? it doesnt make sense
You can afford to buy better brass. You'll just get less. What are you gonna do now? I hope my range doesn't do this.
dont buy shit ammo,save your money and your gun
I sure am glad that my wife and I have our own small range here at home. I don't have a lot of money to spend on ammo. We are on retirement fixed incomes. I live outside of Durand MI
yea I know the feeling i went bought ammo and clays to go shoot my shotgun drove 45 min to the range just to find out it was closed for maintenance so hope fully I will get to got tomorrow and have sum fun.