Hey- you swore you'd never be carried by the ring! I'm quitting. You Can't Quit- you dragged Me in! ... What Happened! Well, I hadda go think, an I guess I passed out. Hey, isn't Hal a blonde? Yah- but This Green Lantern Isn't. He's also kinda- yknow prehistoric- a Throwback? He thinks Girls can't take care of themselves. We were almost here when I woke up. But..
"If Rex really was such a lothario as is being claimed, why is he so impressed by something as vanilla as a threesome?" Because DC, that's why. Refer to the Neil Gaiman quote: “I wanted to put a reference to masturbation in one of the scripts for the Sandman. It was immediately cut by the editor [Karen Berger]. She told me, "There's no masturbation in the DC Universe." To which my reaction was, "Well, that explains a lot about the DC Universe.”
I looked at it as Rex not being impressed by the threesome, per se, but it being more based on the situation...I heard, “ hey, FUCKBOY/stick-up-his-ass, had a threesome with Rhianna and Beyoncé..? Wow!-those two are gorgeous, and really, really hate each other...apparently, the only thing they can agree on is wanting some of his D...! Impressive...!” I’m also annoyed by the assumption that Huntress and Lady B stopped having their own sexual agency, and didn’t fuck Hal because they wanted to fuck Hal...because no woman would randomly fuck a guy who looked like RYAN REYNOLDS...??
@@jasonmullinder DC hasn't been bound to the Comics Code Authority Guidelines for decades. This is the corporation that featured a dead baby monster who eats poop.
@@jasonmullinder So what you are saying is: Their are lots of writers and artists who worked during the CCA days, who don't like making explicit content because they are not used to it. Plus, most people who don't read superhero comics still think of them as for kids. But that isn't true at all. So people who are not seasoned comic book readers get taken aback when comics do get explicit. But how does any of that make the editors shy away from explicit content? Doesn't stuff getting thrown in just because it can go against that argument? assuming that "stuff" is explicit content.
14:00 Wait a second. They claim that the 3some was just a delusion of Hal's drunken state but in the panel where it was first talked about Hal very clearly never told anyone about it. The only way this could have become justice league gossip in the first place is if the girls themselves talked about it.
Honestly my headcanon is that he's a complete prude, so anything outside of the most normal stuff is embarrassing to do (and therefore the bottle of alchohol and getting very very drunk)
@@alexanderf8451 it definitely wasnt intended that way the intended is ollie making fun of by the rules hal jordan have a 3some with 2 women he barely knows and people flipped out
@@PropagandaDS I'm curious why you headcanon Hal as a prude when he is probably one of the more adventurous (ie aliens) when it comes to sex and is often mentioned and shown to have casual hookups?
I love how everyone assumes that Lantern instigated the threesome and used drink to ply the two women and not the other way around. I mean heaven forbid it was the women who took advantage or that it was even consenual.
I hate how puritanical some comic fans can get sometimes. The Huntress and Lady Blackbird having a threesome doesn't cheapen them or make either of them less of a woman.
@@INFERNO95 I wouldn't even say that. Out of Character assumes that there's no rational explanation, but honestly "they shared a partner one time" is not nearly the worst out of character moment nor does it make them look bad. At worst I would say it would make facing each other awkward. Most comic book characters have one or two OOC moments but as long as it doesn't derail their character I wouldn't say it's the biggest sin. There are bigger ones in the comic this comes from.
It only takes a few loud puritans who never shut up and are REALLY GOOD at shaming everyone else who doesn't agree with them. Some people are obessed about sex because they have a lot of repressed sexual feelings, so think about it all day, they think about all the ways to attack it and it being "out of character" is just one way. They will hang a 2000 page thesis on how comic books should be made, advertised and even controlled by the law on this ONE aspect that involves sex.
@@justalurkr That's just it. When you are not bulletproof and are constantly throwing your body between the guns and the innocent bystanders, even if your off-time is one non-stop orgy, you are no less heroic.
Why would Black Canary tell Green Arrow about the event unless he had been suggesting that they introduce a third element into their relationship. Either that or she was trying to entice Ollie to try something new. In any case, the line is shocking and Lanterns reaction is priceless.
Huh. Maybe she mentioned it because she specifically wanted to bring in Huntress or Lady Blackhawk, and wanted Ollie to know that they have experience and thus would at least not be opposed to the idea in concept.
Love this. It seems the outrage is linked to the idea that women’s sexuality, both being in a relationship or engaging in sexual for pleasure, somehow removes them of their own agency.
@@yessum15 but it isn’t exactly displayed as a “conquest”. He seems more embarrassed and if he could bro out with anyone it would be Olli. It’s dumb, but it’s not like Hal is the one bragging.
@@georgiawilksch5708 Originally, it's Arrow who's framing the threesome as a conquest for Hal. But Hal then doubles down on it. He could have either directly called out Arrow's attitude as childish and demeaning, or indirectly suggested it by reframing the experience as a mutual one. Instead he lets the regressive framing of these women stand unchallenged in order to make some bullshit self aggrandizing statement about how he'd prefer to be known for his glorious mechanical achievements than for these petty sexual conquests. This is easier to understand if you can imagine a situation where you would truly not want to demean the other person involved. This analogy may help: Imagine you meet a girl and you think 100% she's the one. You immediately fall in love and you know one day you'll get married. You end up sleeping together the first night you meet. The next day your friend says "Hey, I heard you got to third base with Sally" In this situation you wouldn't want to demean her because this is literally your future wife & mother of your children. You actually respect her, and you want other people to as well. So you would either directly address it, saying something like: "Wtf is wrong you? Are you 12? If you're interested in her sex life you should talk to her directly. Although the fact that you're using that weirdass date rapey language to describe sleeping with women suggests to me you should probably avoid them entirely." That's one way to handle it. However, there's a more likely scenario. Because this is your friend you probably wouldn't go feral SJW on them. But you would still feel the need to address it indirectly by reframing the experience as mutual one: "We had a good time together, she's really nice" The *last* thing you would do is respond with: "A HA! SO YOU SAY EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT? THIS IS BUT A PETTY CONQUEST! I PREFER TO BE KNOWN FOR MY GLORIOUS GRADES AND ASTOUNDING FOOTBALL PROWESS!" Hal should've responded in one of the first 2 ways. Not the third.
Enjoyed this, but now for an off-topic dissent. "For the planes I flew." This is actually very much a relevant part of Hal Jordan's persona and history, especially going back to his Silver Age origins (which, yes, I'm croaky and old enough to remember). Being a big deal test pilot was a major cultural touchstone and considered quite sexy back in the 60s. We're not in that space anymore, for better or worse, but America at the time considered test pilots, astronauts and the like as being not only symbols of American exceptionalism, which I will not defend in its worser examples, but as part of an optimistic and increasingly inclusive view of the future. The line is a bit corny today, I guess, but it is very much in keeping with his character.
I'm pretty sure JLA Headquarters is like the Olympic Village. You dont get that many perfect people spending so much time in high pressure situations without them blowing off steam.
As a woman who has been shamed for having a threesome (by other women no less whereas ironically, one of my best guy friends just gave me a high five when he found out) , thank you.
"Three whole people" and a power ring that can make anything he can think of... I mean, if you're going to get Hal plastered and hanging out with the ladies, even if they're just messing with him, run with it! Don't just drop a terrible couple of lines and walk away. Maybe Grappa is that one drink Hal can't handle. Everybody has a "never again" drink; if you're lucky you find out what it is when among friends. Buy yeah, that was horribly written.
Wait a minute. This is the internet. You cannot take a balanced and nuanced stance! Where is the rage? The ignorance? The personal attacks? You keep this up, and I'll have to subscribe. (Oh, too late. I already did.)
I only recently discovered your channel and for being called Casually Comics, I find each of your videos extremely well researched, presented, and edited. Nothing casual about them. Highly entertaining and a great source of comics history for hardcore and casual fans alike.
@@wolfmantheimpaler That seems to be a weird thing a lot of comics writers think. I gather that is why Bendis breaks up every happy couple he gets his hands on. He really seems to hate happy families.
@@LibraGamesUnlimited it's some BS about how they don't want heroes to be "unrelatable" or the inability to comprehend the dynamic of a hero balancing family life and superheroics despite the endless amount of story ideas that could come out with heroes with families like, kids developing powers of their own, people being attracted to the heroes and their spouses reactions to it (or even funnier, the children of the heroes having friends who have crushes on their parents' hero identities)
I like how it's bad for Hal and Ollie to 'gossip' but not for Blackhawk or Huntress. One of them spoke to Canary too. Also i think Rex was more 'impressed with' and less 'impressed by'. Like a threesome mightve not been much for him, but he can still be impressed with the straightlaced cop. Like he knows that's risqué for Hal.
Perfectly said, man! Women don’t actually have autonomy in the minds of these people, especially when it comes to matters of sex with a man. If she ever has sex with him, it’s never because she talked with him, got to know him, realized that she liked his charm or his wit or his personality and then decided she wanted to sleep with him. Nope! He forced himself on her. End of story! Sometimes, I wonder who the *real* sexists are.
Not really. The issue is that Arrow's frat boy tone frames the threesome as a conquest for Hal, which demeans and disempowers the women involved. He further established that this toxic "notch on the belt" attitude is the standard amongst all the male characters in this world. Instead of taking the opportunity to call out Arrow's vulgarity, Hal lets the smearing of these women stand unchallenged in order to make some bullshit self aggrandizing statement about how he'd prefer to be known for his glorious mechanical achievements than for these petty sexual conquests. So he's further demeaning them to raise his own status. The proper response would've been: _"Ollie what the fuck is wrong you? Are you 12? If you're interested in these women's sex lives you should talk to them directly. Although to be honest the very fact that you'd frame a threesome as some kind of sexual conquest suggests to me you should probably avoid women entirely. Gimme those arrows & go home, it's not like you were contributing anyway. I literally have a ring that can take out a city block with a thought. Discount Kirkland brand Batman."_
Literally gasped when you remembered the time Carol thought Jordan was gonna propose. Jordan was at his lowest at the time, but damn, that was Gardner level of clueless.
DeJon Well how can we have interesting stories if Bruce suddenly Gross a moustache , tends to his kids academic grades and is more concerned about his cholestérol than figthing Bane or Joker
Have you ever heard the tales that come out of Olympic Villages? The staggering number of condoms that they have available for the athletes that stay there? I would think that the rate of random hookups in the superhero community would be similar.
all those incredibly fit and attractive young adults together in one place, something is bound to happen... the hall of justice probably is one wild place
It more then fault of writers who turn him into a man whore over the years. They feel every guy has to be like James Bond and screw every girl he see. What they don't realize is how bad it make the male character look in the long run. Hal has been slut sham by writers for years that nobody feel sorry for him when bad things happens to him. Hal deserve better.
@@INFERNO95 To be fair, female characters are not immune to this. Gwen Stacy once cheated on Peter Parker with Norman Osborn, specifically because J. Michael Strazynsky wanted to make people like her less.
The way I see it, when "fanfic" is used in the context of criticizing official writing, it's usually not as much about the writing quality itself, as it is about the respect for established canon. The fanfic genre is (in)famous for the broad range of liberties taken when it comes to canon, at least in my experience.
HAL and Ollie have known each other since the early days of the Justice League; THEY ARE BEST BUDS; they even drove across the country together in a pick-up truck; Hal is ex-military, and has a rep ACROSS SEVERAL GALAXIES, for being straight laced, and "following the rules"; Ollie, on the other hand, is known for making rash decisions, not keeping it in his pants...and for pushing Hal's buttons...so when he suddenly he finds out his uptight buddy, who regularly takes him to task for his behavior, went out and did EXACTLY what he probably would have done, with two gorgeous women, had he been in the same situation, what do you think he was gonna do?--pretend it never happened??...it may not have been STELLAR behavior, but, sorry, it was completely NOT out of character for those two guys... nor was it really out of character for LB or Huntress to get drunk, and want to have sex with an unattached guy WHO LOOKS LIKE RYAN REYNOLDS...one is a SKY PIRATE, and the other was a VIGILANTE HIT WOMAN...i'm pretty sure they've both gotten drunk and fncked a guy before...i also strongly suspect any man who presented either of them with an unwanted penis, would loose possession of that penis, with frightening speed...
It depends on how well it written. If written in a creative and mindful way it could work. But if it written in lazy and sleazy way then it goona get push back. Writers need to be mindful whit the way they treat every character they get a chance to write or the fans will call them out for lazy writing.
@@INFERNO95 they cannot possibly do that; they have to do what they think is best--why?--you and i seem to have two different opinions of how well the exchange was written...it is not possible to write satisfactorily to two such extremes i taste...you have to chose the path that works for you, as the writer, and go with that...it's not always possible to please anyone other than yourself...
@@INFERNO95 HOnestly, this is the first I've seen/heard of this but the whole page kind of feels like an attempt at humor. Maybe it was bad humor but I think that was the intent. A funny throw-away gag. I can't help but wonder if these characters were original creations without all the history it people's reactions would have been more laid back.
A couple of things things 3000. One, writing only for yourself is an asine way to write since your never are just writting for yourself. Being a good writer requires a person to put aise their personal feelings. Also your reasoning that both girls would gladly jump on a dick that belongs to ahandsome guy is fairly shallow. It sounds less like you're looking at this from what the characters would do, and more so what normal attractive people would do.
Hold on a sec! The “fix” of the threesome, that was attempted by Gail Simone in ‘Birds of Prey’, really doesn’t work, because; if Hal Jordan simply got drunk, blacked out, and thought he had had a threesome with Lady Blackhawk, and Huntress, who told Black Canary about it in the first place, for her to be able to then pass it on to Ollie? In the original setup, it’s suggested that either Lady Blackhawk, Huntress, or both of them, mentioned it to someone- probably Black Canary, and that it got passed on from there; which isn’t a good look for Black Canary, and paints her as being some kind of gossipy teenager, but that at least fits with the “Out of Character-ness”, that Sasha mentioned being a problem all the way through that particular series. BUT, in the non-threesome, Hal blackout drunk, scenario, both Lady Blackhawk, and Huntress, already knew that the threesome didn’t happen, so they wouldn’t have told Black Canary that it did... ...and if neither Lady Blackhawk, or Huntress told Black Canary about it, who did? The only other person involved was Hal; but due to how shocked he was that Ollie knew about the threesome, it doesn’t seem likely that he’d been out bragging about it. Also, surely if Hal was going to divulge details about it to anyone, he would have been more likely to tell Ollie first- since they are best friends; he wouldn’t have told Black Canary- his best friend’s girlfriend, wife or whatever they were at that point...that would be really, REALLY creepy, and probably require Ollie having to have a bit of chat with Hal, about boundaries haha. I mean, only some kind of weirdo would go around telling the wife, girlfriend, partner, etc, of their best friend, details about their various sexual exploits; particularly without first informing said “supposed best friend” beforehand...that just seems wrong haha Plus, Hal was shocked that Ollie, and other people, had heard about the threesome at all; simply wanting to be remembered for the “planes he flew” instead- which made me laugh out loud for a looooong while, especially at Sasha’s reaction to good old train wreck Hal Jordan haha. So that only leaves Lady Blackhawk, and/or Huntress, as the people who could have originally spilled the details about the threesome- either directly to Black Canary, or to somebody else who then told her; makes their explanation, in the ‘Birds of Prey’ book: that Hal was blackout drunk, and just thought that they had had a threesome, not fit with the way it was described by Ollie, in the original scene. I haven’t read either of the comics this “controversy” was featured in, so I’m only going off the details in this video; but from watching ALL her other videos, I trust Sasha to explain things precisely, and, as far as I can tell, she hasn’t led me astray before. Not only that, but I haven’t seen anything in the comments, that suggests Sasha was wrong somehow; either in her description of what transpired in both books, or that she missed out some important details, which would explain away my problem with how it was supposedly fixed, by Gail Simone’s “Hal’s blackout drunk threesome hallucination”, and make it no longer an issue. So...yeah; a pointless, unnecessary throwaway joke about a threesome, that some people probably shouldn’t have cared about as much as they did (though that is subjective, as Sasha rightly points out), wasn’t actually “fixed”...until it was, by every comic book character’s greatest, most unconquerable foe; outside continuity rebooting shenanigans haha. I know I’m very late to the party on this; I’ve watched this video many times, but the issue I pointed out, in this comment, only just came to me now...for some unknown reason haha. ‘Casually Comics’ has quickly become one of my favourite TH-cam channels; not only does Sasha always makes me laugh, I love hearing her unique perspective on anything, and learning about all the crazy comic book controversies, I’ve often missed out on, over the years/decades. The comments on ‘Casually Comics’ videos are usually great, too, and I love reading them. It’s great to see people passionate about things, whether or not I am into them as much as they are, it doesn’t matter; I love learning new things about comic books, and their history: whether about artists, writers, characters, etc, I just find it all fascinating. Hope everyone that sees my comment, and the loved ones of those people, are keeping safe, and well- wherever you are in the world, during these crazy, scary times. 🤞😷🤞 It’s great to have channels, like ‘Casually Comics’, providing superb content; it helps you forget about the state of the world for a little while haha. Best wishes, everyone. 😷👍
You didn't know Black Canary has terrible judgement? She took The Ray's virginity just because she felt badly for him, comparing him to a lost puppy. She gave a naive teen superhero who'd spent his whole life in isolation a pity fnck. I think that's a pretty compelling case for poor judgement.
While Ollie is a prick, he is his best around Canary. So I wouldn't call that bad judgement. As for taking someone's virginity for feeling bad, and having a pity fuck. I wouldn't call it bad judgment per say, just that she has different standards.
+Max Alain's Meme Stash It happened in The Ray's series. Second or third issue, I think. The Ray wakes up the next morning and does the Macarena through the sky to celebrate losing his virginity.
Wait…but if Hal was black out drunk and only thought they did, then how did everyone find out, Hal was surprised Ollie knew meaning it’s not likely he told anyone, so Black Hawk and Huntress would have to be the ones who said it
i interpreted that 21/2 people as a dig at short people/midgets/dwarves, take that for what you will but that's what immediately popped into my head lol
20:41 "The man's a hot mess'....that wasn't always the case. They were larger than life aspirations for those needing to believe in something larger than life. Sadly that was many decades ago. Regardless those heroes and stories are endeared. I enjoy your commentaries and your love of the stories.
Very, very late to the party here. TH-cam said "look at this" and it had Hal Jordan, so I said "Okay, then." 1. I have this book. I read this book. 2. I also entirely forgot about this book whatsoever until seeing this video. Impact? Meh. Not exactly Bane breaking Batman, Doomsday killing Superman, or even Captain America being shot or the Cap Hydra crap, is it? No. 3. It's not a throwaway page/panel/joke. The point was a brief shift in tone while playing on the friendship between GL and GA. GL: Serious tone, serious important secret to reveal. GA: Is it about X? Because I already know. GL: No, it's...you what? GA: Yeah. GL: Aww, shit. But, no, it's not. Back to serious tone dialog reflecting recent events. 4. That's all. Not a character assassination. Not a sexist trope. It's how friends talk. It humanizes them instead of it being 100% stilted serious talk. 5. People really need to stop this soap operafication of comics, especially superhero comics. This thing of "all life should conform to X and anything else requires my outrage" is bad enough in the everyday life of everything else. Comics are meant to be escapism, not heavy-handed social lectures.
The readings had me laughing like a MADman at my desk at work. It's nice to know people were butt hurt over things in comics back then and not just now. Thanks Sasha
@@marsupius wrong kind of train dude. Kind I'm talking about you either drive or pull depending on whether your "pitching" or "catching". In his case he was most certainly driving that train.
I always thought Lady Blackhawk was a World War 2 veteran fighter jet pilot. And she got time warped to present day. Am I missing something here? Or maybe Hal Jordan loves bonking women extremely younger or older than him?(Arisa🤢🤮)
I've watched this video many and I mean MANY times. Today however; Sasha's cold dead reading of Hal's "I'd rather be remembered for the planes I flew" sent me into a fit of giggles. Love it
In the comic books, Green Lantern and Green Arrow have had a complex and controversial history together. I get the impression that Green Arrow was "pulling his chain". Ever since the "Green Lantern" movie, some think that Hal Jordan is an alcoholic/philanderer, because the scriptwriters made him that way, because they felt that the character was too boring. I felt that it was unfair to change the character's noble history. I hope that some DC writer will someday create a story involving Green Lantern, The Huntress, and Lady Blackhawk only, so that the air can be cleared, once and for all, and to redeem the reputations of all three characters.
Gail Simone's biggest challenge these days is finding enough food for her characters to eat in each issue. Frankly, what Lady Blackhawk, Huntress, and Hal Jordan may or may not have done while destressing with a bottle of wine is nobody's business but their own. Sometimes a threesome is just a threesome. Look at it this way (and it's something they've noted in the military as well). When you have young(ish) people, in the best physical condition of their lives, and in stressful situations, with members of the opposite sex (90 odd percent of the time), things happen. It may not be something they planned, or something they're proud of afterwards, but it happens. Humans are sexual creatures, and it's not like Hal, Zinda or Helena are unattractive people.
Yeah, what is with so many modern writers and food. Are they so hungry and underfed that they consider food a viable topic for a superhero comic? They should try not to write on an empty stomach.
I love your mindset. How you exploit bad writing, how you want to get to the bottom of things, how you invest time to find deeper meanings in the panels. All of it. Just love your videos. 👍
I want to add something. Maybe you didn't mention this because of the poor writing, poor characterization, or you didn't know but this happens. Two friends hanging out and one wants to talk about something and the other assumes it's about something else. That threesome conversation belonged in that comic. It shows their level of friendship, and Oliver clowning Hal about it cements the fact of their friendship. Holla back if I'm totally wrong on this Sasha.
Also on the lack of relationships with female characters, nobody ever says that about women in real life. So it amazes me that somehow anyone will attribute that as an attribute to a good female.
that commenter slammed the dinah/ollie relationship?! maybe just my growing up with the Timm-verse, but i love that relationship. I don't think Simone was mandated to include it.
I always saw the line as Ollie screwing with his best bud. Gossip is just that, gossip, and Hal's line to me was him nonchalantly denying that anything happened. Hal's fairly straight laced, especially compared to Ollie, so Hal supposedly getting drunk and having a threesome is just kinda funny. As a side note, I do like the idea of Hal and Zinda having a thing for each other. They're both pilots, and I actually like the idea of Zinda getting Hal drunk in order to sleep with him. I dunno, I just didn't take it all that seriously at the time, and I still don't. To me it was just Ollie screwing with his best friend, and that's something I can appreciate. "Hey, I heard about the threesome you had with two of the hottest superheroes in town. What's that? You don't wanna talk about it? Then let's keep talking about it! So, Hal, how's your sex life?"
I remember when this happened, it cause such a stupid drama between multiple fandoms... Some people were mad that it was Hal, saying they would believe it if was Guy or John (two people with no damn game at all)... so it split the GL fandom... Next people were outraged that a incredible devoted Catholic like Huntress would have a 3some... so those people were mad... And lastly those mad that they had no idea who the hell Lady Blackhawk was... (thats why they were mad, not that she was part of it LOL).
Its sad that I seem to only find honest thought out discourse on my favorite comics channel and can't seem to find it elsewhere. You do a great job at the lost art of "thinking" rather than reacting, and still stay entertaining. Kudos
I can definitely see Zinda and Helena doing this for fun and immediately wanting to tell Dinah since she knows Hal from way back and would appreciate the story. Whether she’d gossip to Ollie idk but that much I think I buy
your defense of Hal Jordans clumsyness always makes me happy XD also what was that about receipts aobut Ric Greyson, is there a rant vid coming about that mess? please tell me thats the case, I need the salt, I need someoen to release the salt about all that
Random thoughts: Yeah, in a story that convoluted, Robinson wasting an entire page on this gag adds to my theory that he wrote 'Cry for' after a serious head injury. OOC syndrome really doesn't apply to the guys, as both Greens were written as thoughtless jerk horndogs for several decades. So, them acting like this sucks, but it's not OOC Impressed that sasha didn't just make this video a joke-video but had a conversation, about the ideas presented in this story.
I remember CBR around that time had some writers that were rather strongly my-way-or-the-highway opinionated about women's issues, to the point of dismissing anyone who didn't agree with any perceived issue. You' could be hit with a "stop mansplaining" response if you dared give proof that a claim was wrong. Disagreeing would sometimes get you dismissed just for being a man. If said poster responded by saying they were a woman, then they might be criticized for "speaking like a man" on the issue.
A brilliant analysis, not only of the comics' storyline and characters (lack of? un-?) development, but the frankly bizarre mindsets of the critics. Without anyone drawing and writing most of the scenes behind the one line, as you said, none of us were "there"; no one knows how it actually happened. You have 3 adults with no serious relationships, in peak physical condition, wearing form-fitting clothing that accentuates that peak condition. Bottle of grappa not required. There is no more reason that they shouldn't or wouldn't have done it than there is that they should have, would have, and did. It reminds a lot of something I read about the "Olympic villages" at each Olympics. You have hundreds of extremely fit young men and women in close proximity, under enormous pressure, some wanting to celebrate, some wanting to be consoled, and none of the prudes want to hear about how much sex is going on there. Mass purchases of large numbers of condoms? Doesn't happen. Why, all these adults are in bed - alone and asleep - by 7 pm. Uh-huh. Sure. Well, if all that sex is going on, it must be the men's fault. Or, no athlete wants to have sex before a competition because it makes them weak (well, actually, a lot of them DO want it then, for a variety of reasons). And other such nonsense. If there is anything to dislike about the Hal/Ollie exchange, it's that it was nobody else's business, yet it appears Dinah knew and told Ollie, and Ollie doesn't seem the type to keep that to himself. From Hal's reaction, I'm pretty sure HE isn't the one that made it known. Either the three of them were less than discreet, or one of the ladies was telling a friend with a big mouth.
The part where they said Hal got drunk fixes nothing. First, it's vague. Second, if Hal was drunk, then by all the arguments I've heard the last few decades, he had no agency, which leads to... Lady Blackhawk and Huntress date-r@p3d him - or, if they didn't actually do anything, WHO is going around saying they DID? In the Hal/Ollie panel, Hal looked embarrassed. The follow-up panel sounds very angry. The loud puritans made it WORSE.
Love your videos. I must say though, I worked for civilian contractor who among other things made squadron scarves for the Air Force. Most every one done without exception had to feature the aircraft of that squadron all over the scarf. Spoke to many a pilot, and it was a point of personal pride. They truly loved their planes.
One thing that bothered me in the Animal Man comics once was when he said that if he had the powers of a spider he would be a mediocre hero. I didn't like that line.
I would have used the opportunity to give all of the characters agency. Could explore prudishness and also respecting people's privacy. Hal, Blackhawk and Huntress could respond with justifiable frustration at people blowing if out of proportion.
@@favouredmg4336 I'm sorry, I don't remember you. You see, for you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.
So... Obviously, by what he says when Oliver tells him everyone knows, Hal didn't tell anyone. So the girls did, and then, they are the ones who say that it never happened and just made Hal think it did... So... thats doesn't make any sense, does it?
I have heard a lot of bad things about this story but this was never one of them. Never heard anything about it. I would be shocked if reprints or trades (if they bothered to make any) dropped that one page.
I found your elaboration about all the angles of why the threesome piece made people mad interesting. Essentially, the whole piece is divisive. Anyway, as a guy I don' t really care either way lol.
I like that your logic at the end can be applied to other aspects in comics. I think a lot of people just get outraged for the sake of it and don't stop to think, why this particular thing made them upset.
As you’re reading the quotes I get the distinct impression that these people are missing certain types of life experiences that would help them understand how such moments occur.
I always thought Hal Jordan was written as a playboy here and there so I would think this was in character. Ollie and Hal were friends so it would be in character for Ollie as well
As an Avengers collector, I have always thought there was something unsaid or unexplored about Patsy Walker, the Hellcat, leaving the Avengers with Heather Douglas, Moondragon, to train on the moon of Jupiter, Titan. Thonos's brother Eros resided there and would later join as under the name Starfox. He was a hedonistic character, Moondragon bedded Thor Odinson, and Mar-Vell's daughter, also Hellcat first husband was Mad Dog, and her second was the Son of Satan.
This was happening towards the tail end of when I was reading comics. Huntress was pretty damn sexually active, Lady Blackhawk was very much an alcoholic. Hal however is nothing more than a single scoop of vanilla ice cream. The real questionable thing is Hal agreeing to a 3-some. If sex actually happened. When Green Arrow first met Huntress, he thought about trying to get a piece of that and by the end of the issue was way too freaked out my her intensity! But Ollie has great history of useless gab with his buddies (See Kevin Smith run).
I really appreciate what you said about the situation with women in comics being nuanced. For example I’ve always wondered about the women of the legion of superheroes. A large number of female characters right from the start - one of the first (if not the first) examples of women in leadership - but then some of the most painful sexist stories at the same time. Understanding all this in historic context and social context of the times is really complicated and nuanced and I would say really offers comics as an overall positive agent of change for society - with some really bad missteps
and in a alternate universe,the three-some was just ollie making a bad joke (because he's one of the funny one's) and hal's reaction was just "ha ha. funny." and that was that.
What Sasha says starting at 9:20 DIRECTLY applies to Gail Simone's nearsighted BS about "the girlfriend in the refrigerator" and Kyle Rayner. I'll always hate her for that utter garbage.
The sad thing is, it didn't have to be referring to a threesome. SOmeone could have written a story where Hal was getting ready for a date with someone else, and she only like Grappa, for some reason. But oh no! there is a shortage because some villain has stolen all the Grappa! Queue Hal and co going on a hilarious mission where he gets taken out by some minor D rank villain and had to be rescued, yet somehow turned it into a very successful date. It could have turned into an interesting character bit for all three by someone responding. Hell, it could have been a Poker game where the prize was the Grappa, and Hal cheated so he could win it for charity. There are a lot of ways this could have gone that would have been fine.Feeling the need on either side to turn it into a character hit was just unnecessary based on that one panel throwaway.
Hello Sasha. Loved your discussion of this occurrence. Before you dismiss Hal Jordan's desire to be remembered for the planes he flew please remember he is a TEST pilot. He does not want to be remembered for flying a DC10 from Dallas to Atlanta, he wants to be remembered for piloting the newest space shuttle. Or breaking a speed record. He is an adrenaline junky who has spent his entire life in pursuit of a place in the record books. And this would relate to his desire to do things no other human has been able to do. Thanks!
This was an awesome video. I am glad you didn't Wham this Wonderfully Whimsical "Whatever-This-Was." This type of video is why I enjoy your channel more than people like Comicstorian and ComicsExplained, and I seriously enjoy those guys.
This kind of stuff is why I no longer read comics or recommend them for kids. I'm 74 & started reading comics around 1950. I loved them & tried to explain them to the kids I knew. The heroes & characters were intended to be people to be looked up to & be heroic in the standards of the day. Marvel's anti-establish popularity never appealed to me back then & now talking about threesomes these days in comics makes me not want to look at anything written today. I still love the characters as written & drawn in the 30's, 40's 50's & sixties. So, I will watch for more of your well done videos on the "Golden Age -silver age comics! You do such great work! I so wish Roy Thomas had stayed with DC in the early part of his career. He & Nelson Bridwell certainly understood the ideals we believed in back them. Like it or not, the comics back then introduced me to the great talents that created these wonderful comics heroes! God Bless them & may they rest in peace!
Dang girl. You make some interesting videos. Love how passionate and enthusiastic you are without being toxic. Have you done anything about the punisher? My favorite character along with Green Arrow.
Huntress had two relationships during Gail's first BoP run. There was a random guy she briefly dated and hooked up with just because she felt like it and later Catman. In both cases they were not choices she was particularly proud of. So, her having a random threesome isn't really out of character. Then again, Lady Blackhawk is related to Catman, so she would be an odd choice. I agree it's bad writing, but that argument against it is a bit silly.
Dear Sasha, I've only recently discovered your channel. Personally I find you to be THE most rational & Articulate Analyst of Comics & their Societal effects. love Steve Holliday
Imagine the engagement level if the title of this episode was: “Sasha’s strangely passionate defense of threesomes.”
😂😂😂
Hey- you swore you'd never be carried by the ring!
I'm quitting.
You Can't Quit- you dragged Me in!
...
What Happened!
Well, I hadda go think, an I guess I passed out.
Hey, isn't Hal a blonde?
Yah- but This Green Lantern Isn't.
He's also kinda- yknow prehistoric- a Throwback?
He thinks Girls can't take care of themselves.
We were almost here when I woke up.
But..
"If Rex really was such a lothario as is being claimed, why is he so impressed by something as vanilla as a threesome?" Because DC, that's why. Refer to the Neil Gaiman quote: “I wanted to put a reference to masturbation in one of the scripts for the Sandman. It was immediately cut by the editor [Karen Berger]. She told me, "There's no masturbation in the DC Universe." To which my reaction was, "Well, that explains a lot about the DC Universe.”
I looked at it as Rex not being impressed by the threesome, per se, but it being more based on the situation...I heard, “ hey, FUCKBOY/stick-up-his-ass, had a threesome with Rhianna and Beyoncé..? Wow!-those two are gorgeous, and really, really hate each other...apparently, the only thing they can agree on is wanting some of his D...! Impressive...!” I’m also annoyed by the assumption that Huntress and Lady B stopped having their own sexual agency, and didn’t fuck Hal because they wanted to fuck Hal...because no woman would randomly fuck a guy who looked like RYAN REYNOLDS...??
@@Ubernerd3000 I have to agree, looking at it like that, it would be impressive
@@jasonmullinder DC hasn't been bound to the Comics Code Authority Guidelines for decades. This is the corporation that featured a dead baby monster who eats poop.
@@jasonmullinder So what you are saying is: Their are lots of writers and artists who worked during the CCA days, who don't like making explicit content because they are not used to it. Plus, most people who don't read superhero comics still think of them as for kids. But that isn't true at all. So people who are not seasoned comic book readers get taken aback when comics do get explicit. But how does any of that make the editors shy away from explicit content? Doesn't stuff getting thrown in just because it can go against that argument? assuming that "stuff" is explicit content.
@@jasonmullinder I thought that the point was: "Why does DC editorial insist on chastity?"
14:00 Wait a second. They claim that the 3some was just a delusion of Hal's drunken state but in the panel where it was first talked about Hal very clearly never told anyone about it. The only way this could have become justice league gossip in the first place is if the girls themselves talked about it.
Yeah, to embarrass Hal. I think that was even the intended joke in the first place. Hal finds this humiliating and they don't.
@@alexanderf8451 But then why are they so offended like he was Bragging about it or something?
Honestly my headcanon is that he's a complete prude, so anything outside of the most normal stuff is embarrassing to do
(and therefore the bottle of alchohol and getting very very drunk)
@@alexanderf8451 it definitely wasnt intended that way the intended is ollie making fun of by the rules hal jordan have a 3some with 2 women he barely knows and people flipped out
@@PropagandaDS I'm curious why you headcanon Hal as a prude when he is probably one of the more adventurous (ie aliens) when it comes to sex and is often mentioned and shown to have casual hookups?
I love how everyone assumes that Lantern instigated the threesome and used drink to ply the two women and not the other way around. I mean heaven forbid it was the women who took advantage or that it was even consenual.
From Lanterns reactions I assumed that they were all very drunk and a stray comment went sexual
Thank you for this comment.
I hate how puritanical some comic fans can get sometimes. The Huntress and Lady Blackbird having a threesome doesn't cheapen them or make either of them less of a woman.
If it out of character then it does make them look bad.
@@INFERNO95 I wouldn't even say that. Out of Character assumes that there's no rational explanation, but honestly "they shared a partner one time" is not nearly the worst out of character moment nor does it make them look bad. At worst I would say it would make facing each other awkward. Most comic book characters have one or two OOC moments but as long as it doesn't derail their character I wouldn't say it's the biggest sin. There are bigger ones in the comic this comes from.
It only takes a few loud puritans who never shut up and are REALLY GOOD at shaming everyone else who doesn't agree with them. Some people are obessed about sex because they have a lot of repressed sexual feelings, so think about it all day, they think about all the ways to attack it and it being "out of character" is just one way. They will hang a 2000 page thesis on how comic books should be made, advertised and even controlled by the law on this ONE aspect that involves sex.
Or less heroic
@@justalurkr
That's just it. When you are not bulletproof and are constantly throwing your body between the guns and the innocent bystanders, even if your off-time is one non-stop orgy, you are no less heroic.
Why would Black Canary tell Green Arrow about the event unless he had been suggesting that they introduce a third element into their relationship. Either that or she was trying to entice Ollie to try something new. In any case, the line is shocking and Lanterns reaction is priceless.
Huh. Maybe she mentioned it because she specifically wanted to bring in Huntress or Lady Blackhawk, and wanted Ollie to know that they have experience and thus would at least not be opposed to the idea in concept.
“Come on Ollie, even Hal Jordan has had a threesome!”
Love this. It seems the outrage is linked to the idea that women’s sexuality, both being in a relationship or engaging in sexual for pleasure, somehow removes them of their own agency.
It does when it's framed the way it is in this comic. As a conquest for Hal, rather than as a mutual experience.
@@yessum15 100% agreed
@@nope5657 Because it demeans and disempowers the women involved. People don't like to be thought of as 'conquests'.
@@yessum15 but it isn’t exactly displayed as a “conquest”. He seems more embarrassed and if he could bro out with anyone it would be Olli. It’s dumb, but it’s not like Hal is the one bragging.
@@georgiawilksch5708 Originally, it's Arrow who's framing the threesome as a conquest for Hal. But Hal then doubles down on it.
He could have either directly called out Arrow's attitude as childish and demeaning, or indirectly suggested it by reframing the experience as a mutual one.
Instead he lets the regressive framing of these women stand unchallenged in order to make some bullshit self aggrandizing statement about how he'd prefer to be known for his glorious mechanical achievements than for these petty sexual conquests.
This is easier to understand if you can imagine a situation where you would truly not want to demean the other person involved. This analogy may help:
Imagine you meet a girl and you think 100% she's the one. You immediately fall in love and you know one day you'll get married. You end up sleeping together the first night you meet.
The next day your friend says "Hey, I heard you got to third base with Sally"
In this situation you wouldn't want to demean her because this is literally your future wife & mother of your children. You actually respect her, and you want other people to as well. So you would either directly address it, saying something like:
"Wtf is wrong you? Are you 12? If you're interested in her sex life you should talk to her directly. Although the fact that you're using that weirdass date rapey language to describe sleeping with women suggests to me you should probably avoid them entirely."
That's one way to handle it. However, there's a more likely scenario. Because this is your friend you probably wouldn't go feral SJW on them. But you would still feel the need to address it indirectly by reframing the experience as mutual one:
"We had a good time together, she's really nice"
The *last* thing you would do is respond with:
"A HA! SO YOU SAY EVERYONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT? THIS IS BUT A PETTY CONQUEST! I PREFER TO BE KNOWN FOR MY GLORIOUS GRADES AND ASTOUNDING FOOTBALL PROWESS!"
Hal should've responded in one of the first 2 ways. Not the third.
Enjoyed this, but now for an off-topic dissent. "For the planes I flew." This is actually very much a relevant part of Hal Jordan's persona and history, especially going back to his Silver Age origins (which, yes, I'm croaky and old enough to remember). Being a big deal test pilot was a major cultural touchstone and considered quite sexy back in the 60s. We're not in that space anymore, for better or worse, but America at the time considered test pilots, astronauts and the like as being not only symbols of American exceptionalism, which I will not defend in its worser examples, but as part of an optimistic and increasingly inclusive view of the future. The line is a bit corny today, I guess, but it is very much in keeping with his character.
LOL.. my thing with that line is that he's an interstellar super-hero and he want's to be remembered for planes? He regularly hangs out with aliens!
@@daverhoden445 Ha! True.
@@daverhoden445 But that he did without a ring or a corp backing him up.
I'm pretty sure JLA Headquarters is like the Olympic Village. You dont get that many perfect people spending so much time in high pressure situations without them blowing off steam.
I'm surprised 1/2 the female roster isn't pregnant at any given time
@@ranwolf7650 Just like the Olympic Village, the JLA HQ provides condoms.
@@TheTomimt Super-Ultra-High-tech- Bat-condoms.
Had this exact thought. Thank you!
I feel like stories about the Olympic village are heavily exaggerated for the titillation of a comparably unathletic public.
As a woman who has been shamed for having a threesome (by other women no less whereas ironically, one of my best guy friends just gave me a high five when he found out) , thank you.
"Three whole people" and a power ring that can make anything he can think of...
I mean, if you're going to get Hal plastered and hanging out with the ladies, even if they're just messing with him, run with it! Don't just drop a terrible couple of lines and walk away.
Maybe Grappa is that one drink Hal can't handle. Everybody has a "never again" drink; if you're lucky you find out what it is when among friends.
Buy yeah, that was horribly written.
My question is this, why do people assume women ( real or fictional)should be ashamed for their actions or bodily autonomy.
Wait a minute. This is the internet. You cannot take a balanced and nuanced stance! Where is the rage? The ignorance? The personal attacks? You keep this up, and I'll have to subscribe.
(Oh, too late. I already did.)
I only recently discovered your channel and for being called Casually Comics, I find each of your videos extremely well researched, presented, and edited. Nothing casual about them. Highly entertaining and a great source of comics history for hardcore and casual fans alike.
I agree. I've been reading comics for decades and every video I've watched on this channel, has stuff I didn't know.
Fav cringe moment from this book: I'm Ray Palmer. Welcome to PAIN!
Don't forget the murder of Leeanne Harper just for shock value and not wanting characters with happy family lives
@@wolfmantheimpaler Lian Harper
And everybody shouting "JUSTICE" at random times.
@@wolfmantheimpaler That seems to be a weird thing a lot of comics writers think. I gather that is why Bendis breaks up every happy couple he gets his hands on. He really seems to hate happy families.
@@LibraGamesUnlimited it's some BS about how they don't want heroes to be "unrelatable" or the inability to comprehend the dynamic of a hero balancing family life and superheroics despite the endless amount of story ideas that could come out with heroes with families like, kids developing powers of their own, people being attracted to the heroes and their spouses reactions to it (or even funnier, the children of the heroes having friends who have crushes on their parents' hero identities)
The way they worded it made me think that Hal got pegged.
I like how it's bad for Hal and Ollie to 'gossip' but not for Blackhawk or Huntress. One of them spoke to Canary too.
Also i think Rex was more 'impressed with' and less 'impressed by'. Like a threesome mightve not been much for him, but he can still be impressed with the straightlaced cop. Like he knows that's risqué for Hal.
In a beautiful/ironic twist, the people that come with pitchforks to "defend" women in comics end up taking away their agency 😂
Perfectly said, man! Women don’t actually have autonomy in the minds of these people, especially when it comes to matters of sex with a man. If she ever has sex with him, it’s never because she talked with him, got to know him, realized that she liked his charm or his wit or his personality and then decided she wanted to sleep with him. Nope! He forced himself on her. End of story! Sometimes, I wonder who the *real* sexists are.
Be a Volcel and enjoy yourself.
Not really. The issue is that Arrow's frat boy tone frames the threesome as a conquest for Hal, which demeans and disempowers the women involved. He further established that this toxic "notch on the belt" attitude is the standard amongst all the male characters in this world.
Instead of taking the opportunity to call out Arrow's vulgarity, Hal lets the smearing of these women stand unchallenged in order to make some bullshit self aggrandizing statement about how he'd prefer to be known for his glorious mechanical achievements than for these petty sexual conquests. So he's further demeaning them to raise his own status.
The proper response would've been:
_"Ollie what the fuck is wrong you? Are you 12? If you're interested in these women's sex lives you should talk to them directly. Although to be honest the very fact that you'd frame a threesome as some kind of sexual conquest suggests to me you should probably avoid women entirely.
Gimme those arrows & go home, it's not like you were contributing anyway. I literally have a ring that can take out a city block with a thought. Discount Kirkland brand Batman."_
@@nope5657 Jesus talk about willfully ignoring the obvious.
@@ViralAgent1 ... Or just ended up having sex, which both genders do all the time with people they later regret they had sex with. 😄
Literally gasped when you remembered the time Carol thought Jordan was gonna propose. Jordan was at his lowest at the time, but damn, that was Gardner level of clueless.
Batman is the only character who get to keep his kids even when their killed. 😂
Oof. A lot of the times comic book companies just don't want their characters to enjoy their personal life. Just look at peter parker's life.
Yeah no Batman has to stay depressed no matter what
DeJon Well how can we have interesting stories if Bruce suddenly Gross a moustache , tends to his kids academic grades and is more concerned about his cholestérol than figthing Bane or Joker
Too bad he can't keep his Robins the same way
Have you ever heard the tales that come out of Olympic Villages? The staggering number of condoms that they have available for the athletes that stay there? I would think that the rate of random hookups in the superhero community would be similar.
Those stories seem more tailored to titillate the regular listeners than they are accurate reports of what's actually happening.
all those incredibly fit and attractive young adults together in one place, something is bound to happen... the hall of justice probably is one wild place
People stop slut shaming Hal!
But he makes it so easy. Which works, since he's so easy...
It more then fault of writers who turn him into a man whore over the years. They feel every guy has to be like James Bond and screw every girl he see. What they don't realize is how bad it make the male character look in the long run. Hal has been slut sham by writers for years that nobody feel sorry for him when bad things happens to him. Hal deserve better.
You've seen his costume
@@INFERNO95 To be fair, female characters are not immune to this. Gwen Stacy once cheated on Peter Parker with Norman Osborn, specifically because J. Michael Strazynsky wanted to make people like her less.
@@Sewblon we dont talk about that. Lol
The way I see it, when "fanfic" is used in the context of criticizing official writing, it's usually not as much about the writing quality itself, as it is about the respect for established canon. The fanfic genre is (in)famous for the broad range of liberties taken when it comes to canon, at least in my experience.
HAL and Ollie have known each other since the early days of the Justice League; THEY ARE BEST BUDS; they even drove across the country together in a pick-up truck; Hal is ex-military, and has a rep ACROSS SEVERAL GALAXIES, for being straight laced, and "following the rules"; Ollie, on the other hand, is known for making rash decisions, not keeping it in his pants...and for pushing Hal's buttons...so when he suddenly he finds out his uptight buddy, who regularly takes him to task for his behavior, went out and did EXACTLY what he probably would have done, with two gorgeous women, had he been in the same situation, what do you think he was gonna do?--pretend it never happened??...it may not have been STELLAR behavior, but, sorry, it was completely NOT out of character for those two guys...
nor was it really out of character for LB or Huntress to get drunk, and want to have sex with an unattached guy WHO LOOKS LIKE RYAN REYNOLDS...one is a SKY PIRATE, and the other was a VIGILANTE HIT WOMAN...i'm pretty sure they've both gotten drunk and fncked a guy before...i also strongly suspect any man who presented either of them with an unwanted penis, would loose possession of that penis, with frightening speed...
It depends on how well it written. If written in a creative and mindful way it could work. But if it written in lazy and sleazy way then it goona get push back. Writers need to be mindful whit the way they treat every character they get a chance to write or the fans will call them out for lazy writing.
@@INFERNO95 they cannot possibly do that; they have to do what they think is best--why?--you and i seem to have two different opinions of how well the exchange was written...it is not possible to write satisfactorily to two such extremes i taste...you have to chose the path that works for you, as the writer, and go with that...it's not always possible to please anyone other than yourself...
The writing isn't lazy. That's a cop-out smack to take an easy shot at it because you don't like it. It's a superhero comic, not Jane Austen.
@@INFERNO95 HOnestly, this is the first I've seen/heard of this but the whole page kind of feels like an attempt at humor. Maybe it was bad humor but I think that was the intent. A funny throw-away gag. I can't help but wonder if these characters were original creations without all the history it people's reactions would have been more laid back.
A couple of things things 3000. One, writing only for yourself is an asine way to write since your never are just writting for yourself. Being a good writer requires a person to put aise their personal feelings. Also your reasoning that both girls would gladly jump on a dick that belongs to ahandsome guy is fairly shallow. It sounds less like you're looking at this from what the characters would do, and more so what normal attractive people would do.
Threesome being "unheroic" is really funny and reminds me of the batman "heros dont give head" scandall
That panel with Hal not being particulary happy about the memory seems more like they got him drunk, but whatevs.
Hold on a sec!
The “fix” of the threesome, that was attempted by Gail Simone in ‘Birds of Prey’, really doesn’t work, because; if Hal Jordan simply got drunk, blacked out, and thought he had had a threesome with Lady Blackhawk, and Huntress, who told Black Canary about it in the first place, for her to be able to then pass it on to Ollie?
In the original setup, it’s suggested that either Lady Blackhawk, Huntress, or both of them, mentioned it to someone- probably Black Canary, and that it got passed on from there; which isn’t a good look for Black Canary, and paints her as being some kind of gossipy teenager, but that at least fits with the “Out of Character-ness”, that Sasha mentioned being a problem all the way through that particular series.
BUT, in the non-threesome, Hal blackout drunk, scenario, both Lady Blackhawk, and Huntress, already knew that the threesome didn’t happen, so they wouldn’t have told Black Canary that it did...
...and if neither Lady Blackhawk, or Huntress told Black Canary about it, who did?
The only other person involved was Hal; but due to how shocked he was that Ollie knew about the threesome, it doesn’t seem likely that he’d been out bragging about it.
Also, surely if Hal was going to divulge details about it to anyone, he would have been more likely to tell Ollie first- since they are best friends; he wouldn’t have told Black Canary- his best friend’s girlfriend, wife or whatever they were at that point...that would be really, REALLY creepy, and probably require Ollie having to have a bit of chat with Hal, about boundaries haha.
I mean, only some kind of weirdo would go around telling the wife, girlfriend, partner, etc, of their best friend, details about their various sexual exploits; particularly without first informing said “supposed best friend” beforehand...that just seems wrong haha
Plus, Hal was shocked that Ollie, and other people, had heard about the threesome at all; simply wanting to be remembered for the “planes he flew” instead- which made me laugh out loud for a looooong while, especially at Sasha’s reaction to good old train wreck Hal Jordan haha.
So that only leaves Lady Blackhawk, and/or Huntress, as the people who could have originally spilled the details about the threesome- either directly to Black Canary, or to somebody else who then told her; makes their explanation, in the ‘Birds of Prey’ book: that Hal was blackout drunk, and just thought that they had had a threesome, not fit with the way it was described by Ollie, in the original scene.
I haven’t read either of the comics this “controversy” was featured in, so I’m only going off the details in this video; but from watching ALL her other videos, I trust Sasha to explain things precisely, and, as far as I can tell, she hasn’t led me astray before.
Not only that, but I haven’t seen anything in the comments, that suggests Sasha was wrong somehow; either in her description of what transpired in both books, or that she missed out some important details, which would explain away my problem with how it was supposedly fixed, by Gail Simone’s “Hal’s blackout drunk threesome hallucination”, and make it no longer an issue.
So...yeah; a pointless, unnecessary throwaway joke about a threesome, that some people probably shouldn’t have cared about as much as they did (though that is subjective, as Sasha rightly points out), wasn’t actually “fixed”...until it was, by every comic book character’s greatest, most unconquerable foe; outside continuity rebooting shenanigans haha.
I know I’m very late to the party on this; I’ve watched this video many times, but the issue I pointed out, in this comment, only just came to me now...for some unknown reason haha.
‘Casually Comics’ has quickly become one of my favourite TH-cam channels; not only does Sasha always makes me laugh, I love hearing her unique perspective on anything, and learning about all the crazy comic book controversies, I’ve often missed out on, over the years/decades.
The comments on ‘Casually Comics’ videos are usually great, too, and I love reading them.
It’s great to see people passionate about things, whether or not I am into them as much as they are, it doesn’t matter; I love learning new things about comic books, and their history: whether about artists, writers, characters, etc, I just find it all fascinating.
Hope everyone that sees my comment, and the loved ones of those people, are keeping safe, and well- wherever you are in the world, during these crazy, scary times. 🤞😷🤞
It’s great to have channels, like ‘Casually Comics’, providing superb content; it helps you forget about the state of the world for a little while haha.
Best wishes, everyone. 😷👍
"Sasha: If they hate each other, then it's just hate sex!" Made me spit my drink out laughing didn't expect Sasha to say that. Well played.
I just generally avoid drinking when watching TH-cam now. Easier on the keyboard.
Anger probably better focused on the death of Lian Harper imo
I love Linkara's comment on her death.
You didn't know Black Canary has terrible judgement? She took The Ray's virginity just because she felt badly for him, comparing him to a lost puppy. She gave a naive teen superhero who'd spent his whole life in isolation a pity fnck. I think that's a pretty compelling case for poor judgement.
I don't hear anything about Black Canary in here. Except for her telling Ollie something.
You want to check her for bad judgement? She kept going back to Ollie
While Ollie is a prick, he is his best around Canary. So I wouldn't call that bad judgement. As for taking someone's virginity for feeling bad, and having a pity fuck.
I wouldn't call it bad judgment per say, just that she has different standards.
Wait what? What comic/issue is this? I've *never* heard of this. Ever
+Max Alain's Meme Stash It happened in The Ray's series. Second or third issue, I think. The Ray wakes up the next morning and does the Macarena through the sky to celebrate losing his virginity.
Wait…but if Hal was black out drunk and only thought they did, then how did everyone find out, Hal was surprised Ollie knew meaning it’s not likely he told anyone, so Black Hawk and Huntress would have to be the ones who said it
3:52 * gasp! * "Three whole people!"
Still better than 2½ people - whichever way you slice it...
Yeah but which half of the person? :D
Or is that half person your roommate watching you from the doorway. Haha
@@patrickmike2524 these are questions we need answers to!
that was just... ew. that made me think of this show i used to watch that had some pretty horrific short stories in it... tales of the crypt.
i interpreted that 21/2 people as a dig at short people/midgets/dwarves, take that for what you will but that's what immediately popped into my head lol
I love this!! I had no idea any of this happened. People take certain things way too far.
20:41 "The man's a hot mess'....that wasn't always the case. They were larger than life aspirations for those needing to believe in something larger than life. Sadly that was many decades ago. Regardless those heroes and stories are endeared. I enjoy your commentaries and your love of the stories.
Seriously, as far as Hal is concerned, does this 3some even approach the scandal of Hal and Arisia? No. I didn't think so.
That whole thing is best swept under the rug. Probably using a giant, green glowing broom under a matching rug.
Good Lord you're reasonableness on youtube and rational conversation seems like a rare gem found in a stripped out gold mine!
Hal Jordan got tag teamed by 2 consenting adult women. Get over it.
Everyone came into the conclusión he got pegged.
Plus he could do a lot with that ring am-i-right?
It is funny how all over themselves some people got. I've heard this book was crap but I don't recall ever hearing this story but it's not a big deal.
@@cactusalucano4013 by his own green ring powers
@@sketch-eee4165reminder the ring is sentient, so... Foursome?
Very, very late to the party here. TH-cam said "look at this" and it had Hal Jordan, so I said "Okay, then."
1. I have this book. I read this book.
2. I also entirely forgot about this book whatsoever until seeing this video. Impact? Meh. Not exactly Bane breaking Batman, Doomsday killing Superman, or even Captain America being shot or the Cap Hydra crap, is it? No.
3. It's not a throwaway page/panel/joke. The point was a brief shift in tone while playing on the friendship between GL and GA.
GL: Serious tone, serious important secret to reveal.
GA: Is it about X? Because I already know.
GL: No, it's...you what?
GA: Yeah.
GL: Aww, shit. But, no, it's not. Back to serious tone dialog reflecting recent events.
4. That's all. Not a character assassination. Not a sexist trope. It's how friends talk. It humanizes them instead of it being 100% stilted serious talk.
5. People really need to stop this soap operafication of comics, especially superhero comics. This thing of "all life should conform to X and anything else requires my outrage" is bad enough in the everyday life of everything else. Comics are meant to be escapism, not heavy-handed social lectures.
The readings had me laughing like a MADman at my desk at work. It's nice to know people were butt hurt over things in comics back then and not just now. Thanks Sasha
I can see a polycube with Hal, Ollie, Dinah, Helena, and Lady Blackhawk. They hang out in a loft in the arty downtown area of Star City.
"I'd rather be known for the planes I flew..." Relax... you could be known for both.
Idk, as a pilot, he should be proud of driving a train
@@nicholashodges201 I think you conduct trains, not drive them.
@@marsupius wrong kind of train dude. Kind I'm talking about you either drive or pull depending on whether your "pitching" or "catching". In his case he was most certainly driving that train.
@@nicholashodges201 of, right. I stand corrected. There is that kind of train...
I always thought Lady Blackhawk was a World War 2 veteran fighter jet pilot. And she got time warped to present day.
Am I missing something here? Or maybe Hal Jordan loves bonking women extremely younger or older than him?(Arisa🤢🤮)
I've watched this video many and I mean MANY times. Today however; Sasha's cold dead reading of Hal's "I'd rather be remembered for the planes I flew" sent me into a fit of giggles. Love it
In the comic books, Green Lantern and Green Arrow have had a complex and controversial history together. I get the impression that Green Arrow was "pulling his chain". Ever since the "Green Lantern" movie, some think that Hal Jordan is an alcoholic/philanderer, because the scriptwriters made him that way, because they felt that the character was too boring. I felt that it was unfair to change the character's noble history. I hope that some DC writer will someday create a story involving Green Lantern, The Huntress, and Lady Blackhawk only, so that the air can be cleared, once and for all, and to redeem the reputations of all three characters.
Gail Simone's biggest challenge these days is finding enough food for her characters to eat in each issue.
Frankly, what Lady Blackhawk, Huntress, and Hal Jordan may or may not have done while destressing with a bottle of wine is nobody's business but their own.
Sometimes a threesome is just a threesome.
Look at it this way (and it's something they've noted in the military as well). When you have young(ish) people, in the best physical condition of their lives, and in stressful situations, with members of the opposite sex (90 odd percent of the time), things happen. It may not be something they planned, or something they're proud of afterwards, but it happens. Humans are sexual creatures, and it's not like Hal, Zinda or Helena are unattractive people.
Yeah, what is with so many modern writers and food. Are they so hungry and underfed that they consider food a viable topic for a superhero comic? They should try not to write on an empty stomach.
Great breakdown, I never heard of this "scandal", funny how people project negativity and an entire storyline based on a handful of details lol
I love your mindset.
How you exploit bad writing, how you want to get to the bottom of things, how you invest time to find deeper meanings in the panels. All of it. Just love your videos. 👍
I want to add something. Maybe you didn't mention this because of the poor writing, poor characterization, or you didn't know but this happens. Two friends hanging out and one wants to talk about something and the other assumes it's about something else. That threesome conversation belonged in that comic. It shows their level of friendship, and Oliver clowning Hal about it cements the fact of their friendship. Holla back if I'm totally wrong on this Sasha.
I have to agree.
Except it really doesn't belong I. The comic if it was poorly handled.
You're my favorite comic nerd. So eloquent, so thoughtful...and quite demonstrative. (The hands always get me going. Never change.)
Also on the lack of relationships with female characters, nobody ever says that about women in real life. So it amazes me that somehow anyone will attribute that as an attribute to a good female.
that commenter slammed the dinah/ollie relationship?! maybe just my growing up with the Timm-verse, but i love that relationship. I don't think Simone was mandated to include it.
I always saw the line as Ollie screwing with his best bud. Gossip is just that, gossip, and Hal's line to me was him nonchalantly denying that anything happened. Hal's fairly straight laced, especially compared to Ollie, so Hal supposedly getting drunk and having a threesome is just kinda funny. As a side note, I do like the idea of Hal and Zinda having a thing for each other. They're both pilots, and I actually like the idea of Zinda getting Hal drunk in order to sleep with him. I dunno, I just didn't take it all that seriously at the time, and I still don't. To me it was just Ollie screwing with his best friend, and that's something I can appreciate. "Hey, I heard about the threesome you had with two of the hottest superheroes in town. What's that? You don't wanna talk about it? Then let's keep talking about it! So, Hal, how's your sex life?"
I remember when this happened, it cause such a stupid drama between multiple fandoms... Some people were mad that it was Hal, saying they would believe it if was Guy or John (two people with no damn game at all)... so it split the GL fandom... Next people were outraged that a incredible devoted Catholic like Huntress would have a 3some... so those people were mad... And lastly those mad that they had no idea who the hell Lady Blackhawk was... (thats why they were mad, not that she was part of it LOL).
This video solidifies my view that your judgement on comic storytelling and character development are profound.
I've watched this video probably fifteen times over the last three years and it just makes me smile every time. How could Hal Jordan do this?
Its sad that I seem to only find honest thought out discourse on my favorite comics channel and can't seem to find it elsewhere. You do a great job at the lost art of "thinking" rather than reacting, and still stay entertaining. Kudos
I can definitely see Zinda and Helena doing this for fun and immediately wanting to tell Dinah since she knows Hal from way back and would appreciate the story. Whether she’d gossip to Ollie idk but that much I think I buy
your defense of Hal Jordans clumsyness always makes me happy XD also what was that about receipts aobut Ric Greyson, is there a rant vid coming about that mess? please tell me thats the case, I need the salt, I need someoen to release the salt about all that
Random thoughts:
Yeah, in a story that convoluted, Robinson wasting an entire page on this gag adds to my theory that he wrote 'Cry for' after a serious head injury.
OOC syndrome really doesn't apply to the guys, as both Greens were written as thoughtless jerk horndogs for several decades.
So, them acting like this sucks, but it's not OOC
Impressed that sasha didn't just make this video a joke-video but had a conversation, about the ideas presented in this story.
I remember CBR around that time had some writers that were rather strongly my-way-or-the-highway opinionated about women's issues, to the point of dismissing anyone who didn't agree with any perceived issue. You' could be hit with a "stop mansplaining" response if you dared give proof that a claim was wrong. Disagreeing would sometimes get you dismissed just for being a man. If said poster responded by saying they were a woman, then they might be criticized for "speaking like a man" on the issue.
Only thing more fun than learning about a controversy is learning it years after it is relevant.
Well said! 👍 Hal always struck me as someone who always knew how to superhero, but not person.
I did not know Roy’s daughter dies. Not mad about the spoiler, now I must read the arc and feel the feels. Thx dude. #RedArrowIsTheArrow
A brilliant analysis, not only of the comics' storyline and characters (lack of? un-?) development, but the frankly bizarre mindsets of the critics. Without anyone drawing and writing most of the scenes behind the one line, as you said, none of us were "there"; no one knows how it actually happened. You have 3 adults with no serious relationships, in peak physical condition, wearing form-fitting clothing that accentuates that peak condition. Bottle of grappa not required. There is no more reason that they shouldn't or wouldn't have done it than there is that they should have, would have, and did. It reminds a lot of something I read about the "Olympic villages" at each Olympics. You have hundreds of extremely fit young men and women in close proximity, under enormous pressure, some wanting to celebrate, some wanting to be consoled, and none of the prudes want to hear about how much sex is going on there. Mass purchases of large numbers of condoms? Doesn't happen. Why, all these adults are in bed - alone and asleep - by 7 pm. Uh-huh. Sure. Well, if all that sex is going on, it must be the men's fault. Or, no athlete wants to have sex before a competition because it makes them weak (well, actually, a lot of them DO want it then, for a variety of reasons). And other such nonsense. If there is anything to dislike about the Hal/Ollie exchange, it's that it was nobody else's business, yet it appears Dinah knew and told Ollie, and Ollie doesn't seem the type to keep that to himself. From Hal's reaction, I'm pretty sure HE isn't the one that made it known. Either the three of them were less than discreet, or one of the ladies was telling a friend with a big mouth.
The part where they said Hal got drunk fixes nothing. First, it's vague. Second, if Hal was drunk, then by all the arguments I've heard the last few decades, he had no agency, which leads to... Lady Blackhawk and Huntress date-r@p3d him - or, if they didn't actually do anything, WHO is going around saying they DID? In the Hal/Ollie panel, Hal looked embarrassed. The follow-up panel sounds very angry. The loud puritans made it WORSE.
Love your videos. I must say though, I worked for civilian contractor who among other things made squadron scarves for the Air Force. Most every one done without exception had to feature the aircraft of that squadron all over the scarf. Spoke to many a pilot, and it was a point of personal pride. They truly loved their planes.
One thing that bothered me in the Animal Man comics once was when he said that if he had the powers of a spider he would be a mediocre hero. I didn't like that line.
Pretty sure this one is clearly a joke
I would have used the opportunity to give all of the characters agency. Could explore prudishness and also respecting people's privacy. Hal, Blackhawk and Huntress could respond with justifiable frustration at people blowing if out of proportion.
Did they ever actually say that sex was involved? Maybe they just played spin the bottle.
I was expecting the punchline to be some epic superhero beer/liquor pong feat....
Maybe they both got together and pegged the shit out of him.
@@yessum15 Here you are again....who are you!?
@@favouredmg4336 I'm sorry, I don't remember you.
You see, for you, the day Bison graced your village was the most important day of your life. But for me, it was Tuesday.
@@yessum15 What are you talking about??? Are you high on something?....these damn internet trolls smh😞
So... Obviously, by what he says when Oliver tells him everyone knows, Hal didn't tell anyone.
So the girls did, and then, they are the ones who say that it never happened and just made Hal think it did... So... thats doesn't make any sense, does it?
My main memory of this comic is just Linkara saying: Together we can be justice!
I did enjoy it Sasha! Its rare for me to hear an ope, honest and thought provoking conversation about comic book stories. Thank you.
Didnt know about this. I did hear about Roy Harper's daughter. I'm more upset about that.
I have heard a lot of bad things about this story but this was never one of them. Never heard anything about it. I would be shocked if reprints or trades (if they bothered to make any) dropped that one page.
‘You need a foil” hallelujah
“Canon isn’t forever” amen
You’re preaching it in this one!
I found your elaboration about all the angles of why the threesome piece made people mad interesting. Essentially, the whole piece is divisive. Anyway, as a guy I don' t really care either way lol.
OMG I love the level of sociological introspection you bring to the genre and the fandom.
I like that your logic at the end can be applied to other aspects in comics. I think a lot of people just get outraged for the sake of it and don't stop to think, why this particular thing made them upset.
i love you sasha. nuanced discussion and genuine passion for comics. cant get enough. not just learning but getting insight as well.
As you’re reading the quotes I get the distinct impression that these people are missing certain types of life experiences that would help them understand how such moments occur.
You are on a roll!! This channel shows just how mixed up comics can get. Love it!🤠👍
One of the greatest videos you have done yet Sasha. I have never heard such an impassioned defense of threesomes.
I always thought Hal Jordan was written as a playboy here and there so I would think this was in character. Ollie and Hal were friends so it would be in character for Ollie as well
As an Avengers collector, I have always thought there was something unsaid or unexplored about Patsy Walker, the Hellcat, leaving the Avengers with Heather Douglas, Moondragon, to train on the moon of Jupiter, Titan. Thonos's brother Eros resided there and would later join as under the name Starfox. He was a hedonistic character, Moondragon bedded Thor Odinson, and Mar-Vell's daughter, also Hellcat first husband was Mad Dog, and her second was the Son of Satan.
Cry for Justice was one of the first graphic novels I read and the only thing I remembered from it was Lian dying.
This was happening towards the tail end of when I was reading comics. Huntress was pretty damn sexually active, Lady Blackhawk was very much an alcoholic. Hal however is nothing more than a single scoop of vanilla ice cream. The real questionable thing is Hal agreeing to a 3-some. If sex actually happened. When Green Arrow first met Huntress, he thought about trying to get a piece of that and by the end of the issue was way too freaked out my her intensity!
But Ollie has great history of useless gab with his buddies (See Kevin Smith run).
U dissected the f*** out of this. Thank u for shining light where it needed shined
I really appreciate what you said about the situation with women in comics being nuanced. For example I’ve always wondered about the women of the legion of superheroes. A large number of female characters right from the start - one of the first (if not the first) examples of women in leadership - but then some of the most painful sexist stories at the same time. Understanding all this in historic context and social context of the times is really complicated and nuanced and I would say really offers comics as an overall positive agent of change for society - with some really bad missteps
and in a alternate universe,the three-some was just ollie making a bad joke (because he's one of the funny one's) and hal's reaction was just "ha ha. funny." and that was that.
What Sasha says starting at 9:20 DIRECTLY applies to Gail Simone's nearsighted BS about "the girlfriend in the refrigerator" and Kyle Rayner. I'll always hate her for that utter garbage.
The sad thing is, it didn't have to be referring to a threesome. SOmeone could have written a story where Hal was getting ready for a date with someone else, and she only like Grappa, for some reason. But oh no! there is a shortage because some villain has stolen all the Grappa! Queue Hal and co going on a hilarious mission where he gets taken out by some minor D rank villain and had to be rescued, yet somehow turned it into a very successful date. It could have turned into an interesting character bit for all three by someone responding.
Hell, it could have been a Poker game where the prize was the Grappa, and Hal cheated so he could win it for charity. There are a lot of ways this could have gone that would have been fine.Feeling the need on either side to turn it into a character hit was just unnecessary based on that one panel throwaway.
Hello Sasha. Loved your discussion of this occurrence. Before you dismiss Hal Jordan's desire to be remembered for the planes he flew please remember he is a TEST pilot. He does not want to be remembered for flying a DC10 from Dallas to Atlanta, he wants to be remembered for piloting the newest space shuttle. Or breaking a speed record. He is an adrenaline junky who has spent his entire life in pursuit of a place in the record books. And this would relate to his desire to do things no other human has been able to do. Thanks!
It dawned on me that Ollie and Hal never give a clear idea that it was a threesome in the first place... just that something happened XD
As always, points very well made on all sides.
This was an awesome video. I am glad you didn't Wham this Wonderfully Whimsical "Whatever-This-Was."
This type of video is why I enjoy your channel more than people like Comicstorian and ComicsExplained, and I seriously enjoy those guys.
I agree with you. Thank you for this great video.
This kind of stuff is why I no longer read comics or recommend them for kids. I'm 74 & started reading comics around 1950. I loved them & tried to explain them to the kids I knew. The heroes & characters were intended to be people to be looked up to & be heroic in the standards of the day. Marvel's anti-establish popularity never appealed to me back then & now talking about threesomes these days in comics makes me not want to look at anything written today. I still love the characters as written & drawn in the 30's, 40's 50's & sixties. So, I will watch for more of your well done videos on the "Golden Age -silver age comics! You do such great work! I so wish Roy Thomas had stayed with DC in the early part of his career. He & Nelson Bridwell certainly understood the ideals we believed in back them. Like it or not, the comics back then introduced me to the great talents that created these wonderful comics heroes! God Bless them & may they rest in peace!
Dang girl. You make some interesting videos. Love how passionate and enthusiastic you are without being toxic. Have you done anything about the punisher? My favorite character along with Green Arrow.
My theory is that Green lantern and green Arrow are so often depcted as villains cause the "Green is bad" Disney thing.
Wellcome to my podcast.
Huntress had two relationships during Gail's first BoP run. There was a random guy she briefly dated and hooked up with just because she felt like it and later Catman. In both cases they were not choices she was particularly proud of. So, her having a random threesome isn't really out of character. Then again, Lady Blackhawk is related to Catman, so she would be an odd choice.
I agree it's bad writing, but that argument against it is a bit silly.
Dear Sasha,
I've only recently discovered your channel.
Personally I find you to be THE most rational & Articulate Analyst of Comics & their Societal effects.
love
Steve Holliday
JR & GS are two of my favorite writers but largely for each of their signature titles Starman and Birds of Prey.
This video is 100% wisdom. As legit critique as it needs and a dip into subjects best expressed in longer form. Glad to subscribe!