the only thing the video forgot to take into account is that the Frostmourne was created to steal souls so on the basis that Sauron is a spirit, it would have a disadvantage.
Sauron wasn't afraid of Gandalf specifically, he was hyper paranoid. He was afraid Gandalf was there, like him, seeking power and thus seeking the One Ring. He feared Gandalf getting his hands on the Ring and then pose a serious threat to Sauron.
@@alexblake5369 Maybe eventually, but remember - Sauron ran from a man that possessed the One Ring, solely because he could be destroyed by his own power. If you have that argument, then why did he run from Isildur? Gandalf didn't avoid the ring because the potential of becoming enslaved to Sauron, but because he knew that the corruption would come in the desire to dominate and control. Being a maiar meant that he had the potential to become a dark force equal or greater than Sauron. After, of course, striking him down.
@@alexblake5369 The thing is like corruption does not occur instantly and also that Gandalf is of the same specie as Sauron : a Maiar. And he was sent in Middle Earth specifically to counter Sauron's influence. According to Tolkien's letters, had Gandalf taken the One Ring, he would have become stronger than Sauron and could have been able to destroy him. After that, he would have become even worst than him as, convinced of doing good, he would have turned middle-earth into an absolute dictatorship of perfect order under his own will and command.
@@alexblake5369 The one ring was not a ring that enslaved the user, it's the one that enslaved others. Gandalf didn't want the ring because he would have been tempted and taken the power for himself. Hence the line: "Don't tempt me Frodo!" Gandalf with the one ring probably could have overthrown Sauron, but at the cost of who he is.
I don't think its obscure its just accurate, people who don't look into lore might think its obscure. LOTR lore is wild and every fantasy fan should look into it. Either on youtube or just reading the source material. That's just my opinion tho I WAS GENUINLY surprised he knew so much tho, whenever someone talks about LOTR and think they know what they are talking about but barely do. Its kinda cringe.
I think the biggest argument for a Sauron victory (that sadly wasn't mentioned) is that the One Ring's influence scales with the influencee's power and ambition. And Arthas is both very powerful and very ambitious. The only reason Hobbits seem more resilient to the Ring is because they are neither. And as soon as Frodo was in a position of power to destroy the One Ring, its influence peaked to the point he refused to throw it in. The only reason the One Ring was destroyed was because Gollum showed up and fought Frodo for it, ultimately falling into Mount Doom as a result of its own influence over others. This is intentional as to Tolkien, good does not destroy, and evil does not create. Evil destroys everything, and in the end, it destroys itself.
@@ANDELE3025 What the One Ring exactly does is never clear because we only ever see its effects when it is worn by Sauron and when it is worn by a hobbit. And only the latter is seen in detail. Most agree that it amplifies abilities the wearer already has. Thus, as Hobbits are small and easy to miss, they receive invisibility. On the other hand, Sauron was wearing it right before his fall and he was not invisible, but was cleaving through swathes of armored warriors with each swing. There is no reason not to expect it to stack with what the LK already has. And again, it's influence is more sinister in that it makes you want it. It makes you see yourself as better with it, and this influence scales with how powerful and how ambitious you already are.
@@Revenant-oq9ts What the one ring does is actually stated (iirc explicitly in tolkiens letters to the publisher if you dont want to take the characters descriptions of it), like the rest of the rings it takes ambition/desires and turns it into power (only not of a specific type but as general amplification) by piercing a bit through the veil of arda without falling to the everlasting darkness. Its why tom was immune to it and hobbits dont get influenced as much due to lack of and very simple desires respectively. It specifically also attracts the other rings and imposes a hypnotic effect on others proportional to the wearers own personality (or the rings). The invisibility being a explicit effect of the ring vs the effect of the ring on mortals is up to question (sauron wouldnt go invisible either way as him taking form is a effect of his magic and his will and as tolkien said, the rings powers are under his will, no matter what the fraction of sentience the ring imposes on others). Plate of the Damned meanwhile lets the wearer shrug off all magic weaker than his, protects from demons, spirits and ghosts as much as it does from blade and fist (more so technically as its lacking a lot of actually protective parts)/protect the wearers mind and soul (if any exists) and... well like the rest of the items was indestructible before retcons. And "influence desires and ambition" does nothing when one is already dead inside with the ability to psionically mind control anything within range of a eurasia sized continent (that you become aware of).
@@ANDELE3025 Well following that logic, the Plate would only protect against the One Ring if the One Ring were weaker, and if the data DB used is to believe, it is not. Plus there is a flaw in the writing there when someone is "dead inside" and simultaneously has the desire to muster up a plan and resources to end everything. A character can only be one. Not both at the same time.
@@BigMikey1776 I remember stumbling across a video a while ago and he was talking about obscure characters that I had completely forgotten about. Granted it's been like 20 years since I've read the books and Asmon seems to be able to recall information well (as evidenced in his transmog comps and ban appeals), I can't say I'm surprised he remembers it all.
@Sephiroso I don't care about the finger chopping off because it was already after he was defeated and plot armor, so the plot of the book could actually happen.
@@Sephiroso. it was luck when Sauron had his finger choped off and he can fight in spirit form you total re**** :D wtf he fought Galadriel he fought Gandalf in spirit form so STFU and go watch Marvel
On Frostmourne being shattered, you have to remember that Sauron was a apprentice of Aule, the Valar of smiths, and forged his own weapons. That mace was definetly flowing with enchantments and secret godly technuiqes that sauron possessed. It was also based on Grond, Morgoths mace, which was one of the most powerful weapons in the setting I belive.
@@Ironwill902 magic in tolkien's works exists and can be very powerful, it just isn't used as often as powerful magicks are in something like WoW or LoL or other mediums, neither is it super flashy
@@Ironwill902 watch the battle between saruman and gandalf at caradhras. i think it was not in the books, but it's a good demonstration of what is magic in tolkien world.
@@bBleedingMoon Bro if it's not in the books I'm not going to take it seriously. All that does it boost a character to a power level that makes no sense and sets up a character to win when they shouldn't. So no the most I will say when middle-earth was somewhat equivalent was during the first age.
Everyone forgets that it was Actually Elendil and Gil-Galad who actually brought down Sauron in combat. Isildur cut off the ring after. And to Isildur's credit he wasn't even all that corrupted after taking it, he was bringing the ring to Elrond when he was killed.
@@t0m653 I wouldn't exactly say impunity (they did die in the process after all). And Elendil, being a roughly 8ft tall super human even when compared to other numenorians is pretty far from regular. As for Gil Galad he wielded what was probably the second most powerful of the rings. Even together though they were way bellow Sauron's weight class in terms of power. It's just that Sauron for all his power was a planner and a craftsman. He wasn't known for his skill at arms. Powerful in an insidious way, but not much of a fighter. Him fighting in the front lines was at the time a desparate last resort.
30:07- Well, in the books Isiuldur only cut the finger off Sauron's corpse. Sauron's body was killed and his soul basically knocked out from fighting and killing Gil Galad and Elendil, two uber powerful characters.
No? Sauron fought both Gil-Galad and Elendil and was heavily wounded/maimed by the two as they died - Sauron shattered the blade Elendil had been using, Narsil, as he defeated them by stepping on the blade and Isildur picked up his father's broken sword by the hilt and used it to cut off Sauron's finger in the confusion.
@@Blissy1175 That's from the films...not from the actual lore. The films changed it. In the actual lore it's exactly like M Armyeater mentioned. The ring was taken AFTER Sauron was already "killed".
This makes much more sense. As someone who just watched the movies, I was kinda like “How can he win against the Lich King when he was just beat by some random guy?”
@@seilamano3974 Sauron also grabs Gil-Galad and his hatred for the elf king burns so hot that Gil-Galad literally gets roasted alive. The burns ended up killing him.
Actually the one Ring does not turn who wears it invisible. It just amplifies ones strenght... Basically, if Asmon was to put the One Ring on, it would only just lead to instant hairloss...
@@CadavreSansNoms dont forget that he reacts to reactions made on those reactions... That means people like Josh Strife would have uploaded a reaction to it without him actually doing it just so that the reation to the reaction would be made. I call it the Asmon Paradox. Literally rewriting time...
Narsil was made of dwarven steel from the first age, but it was heavily enchanted that it could cut any armour or flesh regardless its toughness, after all its sister blade angrist cut the silmaril from the crown of morgoth, but with anduril which was reforged from the shards of narsil could effect spirits/ghosts, the irony of sauron is that despite he was morgoths general he was originally a forge smith and or craftsman
Yeah and Aeglos, Gil-Galad's weapon, was a spear that "None could stand against." Sauron took multiple hits from both Aeglos and Narsil, also killing both their wielders before succumbing to his wounds.
He was originally aules miar. Which is the valar that created the dwarves and is the valar of smithing. He created the chains that bound melkor aka morgath. So was Saruman. Which is pretty crazy. He’s disciples were corrupted but his creations were basically incorruptible except for their greed for gold and gems. And I guess dragon sickness. But the rings had little affect on them.
Both of those items were crafted by the same dwarf who is largely considered to be the best dwarven smith that ever existed. He also made a helmet that basically makes you unkillable during battle which i always found pretty funny because all its ever used for is killing a very notable dragon and that is about it. Many owners of the Helm didn't even use it because it was pretty bulky and it was clearly made for a dwarf.
I think this fight is so close because both of these characters are so ill-defined and powerful that they can go from mountain level all the way to universal level depending on how you interpret the lore
their lore is abit all over the place but i think it does come down to the lich king's sword needs a counter or excessively powerful force to destroy it and sauron's ring needs a specific mountain that in this scenario could be in another galaxy and you also need to read the ring or know its history to kill sauron plus overall sauron spent thousands of years outsmarting his superiors in power and his equals while growing in all forms of power and he started off as the equivilent of a cosmic being 2 levels below the god of his multiverse so in comparison the lichking is just kinda out of his depth since he is at his highest point planatary
@@Ark-oi3qySauron was defeated after having been smited by his universe's God, having been brought to a fraction of his power, before being double-teamed by the legendary ruler of a race of superhumans and one of the greatest Elven warriors that ever lived, both of whom had some of the strongest magical items any mortal ever wielded. Yes, Sauron took a millennium to come back. But only after something that would kill the Lich King twice over.
@@Ark-oi3qy Gil-Galad and ELENDIL were both the strongest fighters of their races, wielding legendary weapons and they barely managed to 'throw Sauron down', while losing their own lifes. And all that when Sauron was in a weakened state. he had permanently lost his maiar 'body', which was destroyed by the Creator himself and was only able to assume a lesser form. Tulkas winning against Sauron is also kind of a weak argument, since Tulkas is quite literally The Ultimate Fighter, who would win against anyone in a 1-on-1 fight, including Melkor, the overall most powerful of the Valar.
Honestly I think they're spot on when it comes down to experience. I don't necessarily agree on the power difference being notable enough to be an advantage, but the difference between 50k years and like 60 is absolutely massive
Arthas was only 26 when wrath happened, but I guess Nerzhul was quite old, but then again he or the entire history of the Lich king didn't last as long as 60 years.
@@alirezasaliani5165 It's been around 40 years since the dark portal opened iirc so I figured a good couple years of combat experience between nerzhul and arthas pre-lich king into the numbers
@@beilog7489 same can be said for lich king, how much time did he spend on the frontlines, and how much just managing armies on a throne. both did almost identical roles in their respective realms, as such you could expect that both would allocate a simmiliar ammount of time in a year to figthting. even if you bend in in arthuses favor and claim sauron spent more time on his ass and only battled 1/100th as often as arthas, with how long hes lived, that still translates to millennia more of combat experience
I assumed sauron would win because his source of power cannot be destroyed by the lich king, but the lich king's source of power could be destroyed by sauron.
@@nathanhargenrader645 that's my big thing. In the books, Sauron fell while in possession of his ring, and Isildur cut it from an already fallen foe. If a human can walk up to the Dark Lord post battle and cut the ring from his finger, I think everything after Arthas kills his physical body is just Peter Jackson headcanon.
Actually in Tolkiens letters he wrote that the one ring could be destroyed by craftmenship equal to or greater than itself. Frostmourne is made by the Primus, one of the most powerful beings in the universe and one the most skilled craftsmen in the entire universe. It really stands to reason Frostmourne could destroy the ring, but neither Arthas or Sauron would know that.
I thought from the start that Sauron was more powerful and experienced so he had an edge but I was surprised at the fact that what I would consider the lich kings edge frostmourne would fail to devour Sauron in soul form. Even if Sauron is more powerful it is much easier to devour his soul or cut off a ring than to destroy frostmourne. Tactically I think the lich king has a 60/40 chance but this video went power scaling so it ended this way. And Saurons source(the ring) could potentially be corrupted by the lich king as Arthas has already subjugated a far more powerful being than himself in the armor and is now stronger still. He could also just cut off the finger and use his magic to find the source or connection to the ring and go to mount doom if he couldn't corrupt the ring as he did the armor. I'm not too bothered either way but I feel that Arthas had a chance to win albeit not a guarantee.
wouldn't work. The ring is bound to the world, if the ring exist Sauron will return. Sauron as a Maia was able to travel the planes and return to the Iluvatar's embrace whenever he wanted but he rejected that and bound himself to the world with the ring.
Arthas would totally snatch the ring and go "such a little thing" Picking up powerful cursed objects and getting corrupted by them is basically what Arthas does all the time. Sauron is the guy who makes them.
If Arthas got his hands on the ring, the ring would certainly have trouble controlling him since he has both his own soul, and Ner'Zul's. The real issue would be "snatching" the ring, though...
@@oddvoid if you read the books isildur only cut the ring off a corpse, the films kinda fucked that scene up for brevity since it would need to show that 2v1 fight before it with Elendil and Gil Galad dealing death blows to Sauron and dying in the process
@@thehermit8723arthas made a whole as citadel of a old god blood. For normal mortals they snaps just even liking at it and made every shit with it and even undead was hearing voice he is invulnerable of corruption a this state even the jailor couldn’t
Sauron lost his shape shifting ability when his body died during the fall of numenor. After that he could only choose from a small set of 'bad guy' forms like the sorcerer in the Hobbit or the tall figure we see in lotr.
not really, I believe it is stated that Sauron cannot shape shift into the physical forms he died in. For example the werewolf form or the one he had in Numenor,. He could still shape shift into other forms.
@@danmorariu9889 This topic is much discussed among book fans because this doesn't have a 100% clear answer. What we know definitely is that he lost his ability to take on a "fair" form so he definitely couldn't turn into Annatar again nor any other form in which he could deceive the elves in. He could only take on "vile" forms, to what forms exactly we don't know. A big clue to the complete loss of his ability is the fact that his body still only has 9 fingers during lotr even after reforming his body which took thousands of years.
@@Rhodair I think he can be seen one time in a deleted scene standing on top of his tower, but in the books it is made very clear he has a physical body. The big eye on top of the tower is a movie-only thing. In the books he personally tortures Smeagol and later Smeagol talks about this to the hobbits and mentions that he only has 9 fingers. He doesn't need the ring to have a body, the 'exploding upon getting my finger cut-off' is also a movie thing, in the books they just kill his body and cut off his finger after that.
I think this fight was closer than anyone realizes... Sauron's physical embodiment has been killed before, but his spirit was able to move on after his avatar's demise. If Arthas had connected a killing blow with Frostmourne, I think Sauron's soul/essence would have been absorbed. It's very possible that Sauron would have sufficient power to break free from Frostmourne, and in so doing, shatter the blade from upon his escape, but if that is the case the battle was no contest from the start.
Note that Sauron was a capable master of dark magic and craftsman. He also managed to trick and control elves and dwarves and men with rings. Even more so the ring gives him lots of power it's his soul and power even if Lich King can pull something off, no way Sauron was gonna be able to lose so easily.
A Maiar spirit is in no way comparable to a normal mortal soul, you’re talking about a magic ice sword absorbing the atemporal, aspatial, deathless essence of an entity that helped sing every concept and thing into existence from a void outside all possible realities Frostmourne couldn’t absorb an Ainu anymore than it could absorb a Platonic Form
To those who are in argument about if Sauron could break Frostmourne or those newer to death battles it is something to note that the animation that shows is not a definitive "this is how it would go down" situation but is just a way they put together a video for theatrics of it resolving in a way that the creators think is cool to watch.
Especially since in a lot of Death Battles they’ve stated that fights could easily last for days or years Like Dio vs Alucard where they stated that because Dio had such a brutally reliable way to maneuver away and around Alucard with time stopping, a never ending supply of blood that he could reliably feed off of for in infinite stamina, and light speed feats by matching the light speed attacks of Star Platinum, he could hide during the day and return to finish the progress he’s made taking Alucard’s lives
Very true that fact changes a lot of the animations because so many of them would just be boring like realistically speaking Omni Man versus homelander would have homelander speed Blitz Nolan only to literally shatter upon impact
0:20 - I mean, Balrogs being beaten by Elves isn't a knock against the Power of the Maiar, it's just that Tolkien Elves (especially those of the first age and the greatest elven lords) were basically demigods in their own right (and had really good magic/weapons). I mean, yeah he lost and was killed, but Fingolfin was able to fight Melkor/Morgoth (aka the greatest of Tolkien's Ainur, a being second *only* to the one God Eru in power) in single combat, and did well enough to permanently wound him seven times over a long fight that shattered the lands around them. The greatest elven lords were certainly on the level of Maiar like the Balrogs, Sauron, and the like. 27:30 - Elvish magic was able to permanently wound Melkor... I don't see what makes Frostmourne (or Ashbringer) stronger than that. Sure it doesn't have the whole "holy space rock" shiny backstory but the results speak for themselves IMO.
Exactly, not to mention that melkor nerfed himself when he decided to wear the silmarils, they handicapped him. Fingolfin , and even feanor we’re outstanding warriors and powerful elves, perhaps the most, except that idiot feanor was too much of a douche canoe and had his head up his ass, but he stood against several balrogs , including gothmog, until he got overwhelmed and killed.
The only reason Fingolfin could fight melkor was by that time he had used much of his power spreading darkness. If it was at he height of his power, Fingolfin would not have stood a chance in hell. Melkor was as powerful as all the original valar put together many times over.
Cuz thats his goal, make you think he Tolkien savvy, but most shit he probably heard it or read little things here and there, bet you he.hanst read the Silmarilion
God, thank you for bringing an actual both sides to the table kind of thing. I absolutely believe that Sauron CAN beat Arthas without question, but just not the way that it was represented here. You also forgot that there were some inaccuracies such as the DB team forgetting to pretty much spell out that the frostmourne is WoW's version of Sauron's rings.
Way weaker than the one ring. And while the ring is a core to his power, he doesn’t need it for basic things while Arthas was rendered completely useless without the sword.
@@homelander2243 I wouldn't go as far as say it's way weaker, considering the feats it had in the lore prior to the retcons were quite impressive and effortless. However, I can give you that Arthas is fucked without the Frostmourne as that was the main source of power, meanwhile Sauron has the edge of being what he is, and forging the cursed items himself.
Sauron has some notable combative feats. He soloed 2 of the greatest fighters of the second age, both his enemies had powerful weapons, and although Sauron did die he managed to kill them both and destroy one of the two weapons.
@@dmchai8401 I know this comment is ancient, but that’s not super impressive. Sauron’s physical body also perished in that fight and isildur cut the ring from his body (I think, not a lotr scholar). Arthas casually one shot 25 of the world’s greatest heroes. The powerscaling in wow is just too bonkers to ever make this a fair comparison.
@@MGrey-qb5xz Two normal people? So disingenuous dude. These two were some of the best fighters in all of Middle Earth at the time. It was Elendril and Gil-galad, who both DIED in their battle against Sauron. Elendril was a King who wielded the legendary weapon Narsil in that battle, and he was "known as the greatest warrior of all the Dúnedain". He was Númenórean, which are of Men, but stronger than normal men so not comparable to a normal person. Gil-galad was also a King, and he is a Ñoldorin Elf. He had a title such as "High King of the Elves of the West, King of the Eldar, King of Lindon, Lord of the High Elves, and the Lord of Eriador." He wielded the legendary weapon Aeglos in the battle against Sauron. Sauron ultimately won the fight as they both perished and he lived to recover his strength, as he cannot be permanently killed unless the ring is destroyed. Isildur cut Sauron's finger AFTER he was already incapacitated from the battle, but he was not dead or anything. It took 2 literal Kings who were not normal humans, 2 legendary weapons, and a suicide attempt to take down Sauron and they still failed. Both Elendril and Gil-galad would mop the floor with any common enemy in WoW, as they have done with hordes of orcs and other fiendish creatures in battle and probably countless times protecting their land in other scenarios already in the lore. They'd probably be able to take out several lesser non-mortal beings in WoW as well, depending on the variables. So far from "two normal people". As someone else in the comments stated, "Yeah and Aeglos, Gil-Galad's weapon, was a spear that "None could stand against." Sauron took multiple hits from both Aeglos and Narsil, also killing both their wielders before succumbing to his wounds." Whether he could win against The Lich King depends on many factors, and there really isn't enough information to give a clear answer. Both are immensely powerful, but both have their pros and cons. I don't think it's as easy as either side states since their 2 universes have different rules.
@@MrRADicalOfficial Gil-Galad was cracked, he's up definitely in the conversation of Feanor and Fingolfin. The Elves were literally built different back then when the world was much more magical. Like look at what Legolas can do in the movies, than amplify that by 100x and you end up with Elves from the 1st and 2nd age
Sauron's mace was forged of me through in the fires of Mount Doom alongside the one ring. It was the representation of his will to dominate, and served as a conduit for his power, bound to him similarly to the ring, though it didn't have his soul in it.
This was an easy clap. You got a mortal corrupted by an evil artifact, vs a godlike being who creates evil artifacts to corrupt mortals with. It was like throwing a demon against Guts, it's literally the type of being he wrecks on a daily basis.
@@Asghaad ummm...no lol your right about power levels being incomparable, but the deities, Maiar, and Valar are much stronger than most if not all of Warcrafts denizens
This is actually a legitimately good battle with Sauron. Both of these baddies have epic armour, armies of chaff, and an absurdly powerful artifact Edit: sorry, I meant as in they're both pretty equal but yeah they do seem hilariously similar
What I think would realisticaly happen tho, would be that such a death battle would never occur. Sauron would see Lich King comming and would manipulate him to join his side. Like he did with Saruman. It would be even easier, as Lich King would be far more willing to join Sauron and become his champion. Perhaps he would even gain a ring to even increase his power in exchange. With both of them working together, the Orcish Horde and the Undead army would also be under Sauron's complete controll. So Orcs wouldn't fight against Lich King, and Army of the Dead would not fight on Aragorn's side either. Or even if it would, it would be now countered by even greater undead army from Lich King.
@@sten260 Well ... yeah. So did the most of fantasy stuff. From D&D to Warhammer to MtG to movies like The Sword and the Sorceror and Willow... Actualy Warcraft took a lot of elements from these older sources and did their own spin. But not just fantasy. And not just Lotr. They also took from Star Wars. Arthas is a good knight (paladin) who converts to undead and becomes the leader of that which he wowed to destroy. Killing his former comerades in the Paladin order. As well as his former teacher, Uther. Compare that to Darth Vader. Who was good Jedi knight who converts to the Dark side and eventualy becomes the leader of that which he wowed to destroy, killing almost all the members of the Jedi order, he once belonged to. I say that's at least a passing similarity.
I disagree - The Lich King is more on the lines of The Witch King (Can you see the reason?) than he is on Sauron's level. Sauron is more on the level of Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden which would have been better match-ups for him. This was a clear Mismatch from the start. I'd more akin Sauron to Archimonde and Morgoth to Sargeras.
You realise the Tolkien estate limited them in what they could and couldnt use? Their source material was literally cliff notes and were given free reign on what they wanted to add as long as the general story of the 2nd age was kept the same. But im sure you and the youtuber you watched know more than Tolkiens estate and his literal words.
@@deathswitch2404 Even so, AMazon hired mediocore writers, and NEVER THE BEST. Just imagine a a billion dollar project, down the drain, cause your workers suck at improvising + wokeness.
3:04 You are absolutely correct. It was after Melkor killed Finwë, the first king of the Noldor, and stole the three Silmarils, Fëanor (Finwë’s son) named him Morgoth, meaning the “Black Foe of the World”. Morgoth still announced himself as Melkor when he interrogated Húrin, one of the legendary heroes of Men in the First Age.
I mean, Sauron has destroyed holy swords (Like Isildur's) designed to kill Maiar like Sauron. Just like the Lich King, Sauron was beaten when he was caught lacking.
A thing that didn't get mentioned is Arthas was already someone weak to the temptations of gaining power by receiving gifts from others. Both Frostmourne and the Helm gave him power by sacrificing free will. Something that Sauron specializes in. He was wise and cunning and didn't mind spending 1000 years for plans to come together. Even without fighting, he would have Arthas and the Lich King dancing around in his hand like a puppet like he did with Saruman, and Something Arthas did as well. Also, Asmongold mentions how the Ashbringer was forged from Naruu, but Illidain pretty easily destroyed one of the most powerful Naruu. Sauron would have no issues doing the same for that tier of weapon. Just because its from Space doesn't make it strong, especially in Warcraft Lore. Its probably more likely that Saronite is stronger than a blade made from Naruu, because its from the blood of Old Gods.
This Illidan is OP compared to the one of warcraft 3 (especially since he had the guldan skull for a long time) + he's the jailer of Sargeras now so it's pretty impressive now
You can definately tell this is asmon's first death battle considering his reaction to the animation and the fact he really doesn't seem to understand the rules and looked absoutely confused at them explaining the calcs
Yes definitely his first time watching. They have alot of good content hopefully he goes through and checks them out. However they do have bias and have been proven incorrect in their scaling by some well known powerscalers. That being said, they got this one right, and regardless of a few questionable outcomes in their very long series, they are entertaining and knowledgeable. A very entertaining fight they have is Popeye the Sailor vs Saitama from OPM.
@@entropy7705 also, just the idea of power scaling Sauron. A fill-in for just the concept of evil and misery. You don’t kill Sauron. You overcome him. (Well.. you try) Im all for squeezing your favorite fiction for all it is worth, but these calc videos have always felt like a detour in the direction of missing the point.
If it was a pure melee fight Sauron would 100% lose (Sauron himself admits he's not good at fighting) & we see this in their battle Arthas was the stronger fighter when it came to weapon combat, for most of this battle Sauron used the element of surprise (e.g. his Werewolf transformation) & trickery to try to manipulate Arthas (with threats & visions). However Sauron is just more powerful being a (Fallen) Angel againt a Demi-God, the Angel is just nartually stronger (if Arthas had more years under his belt he could defeat Sauron, but it wasn't to be).
Or just apply lore accuracy and have Sauron keel over the moment Frostmourne hits (since the literally first and introduction power of frostmourne in WC3 is that it rends souls apart with its strikes and maiar ARE blazing souls given shape).
@@ANDELE3025 Yeah, it's not like Sauron specifically put his soul in the ring so that even when he was destroyed (physically AND spiritually), he would be able to come back. That's totally not one of the most important parts of the entire LOTR mythos.
Ecthelion and Gothmog both drowned in the fountain. And why a elf took down a Maia, well he's a Noldor, Elves of Valinor, the lights of Valinor still with them. They're powerful elves because they used to dwell near the Two Trees.
Wow, I think I've learned so so much in that half an hour span of time. The Arthas backstory part reminded me of my good ol' days when I played through Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne back when I was in middle school. Having strict Asian parents that forbid me (and my siblings) from playing computer games whatsoever, I genuinely thought that Warcraft III that I played = World of Warcraft, and I could never figure out why the game was so overly popular with all the character classes I never saw, supposedly very expansive map that I never noticed, without the resource collection mechanic (lumber and gold) that nobody really knew about, but that was like one of my first ever pc game so I was having a blast + it was around those times when my friend introduced me to another game by same people, Diablo II, which I 300% got addicted to and literally destroyed my grades, so I remember my Windows 98 pc got confiscated by parents, but I got so upset at them that I straight up installed D2 on to the family-use PC in the living room so that I could play whenever parents weren't around LOL
Also, he sank the island BECAUSE Sauron convinced them into invading the elf lands, and they started off doing just that. They were told never to go there for being such a strong nation.
Sauron was a prisoner.... just by talking he went from prisoner to high priest, converting the entire island into a Morgoth based religion and becoming the be all end all authority to them..... JUST....BY....TALKING.
Ecthelion wasn't "only" an elf. He was the one of the mightiest of the elves back in the days of yore, so long ago where Morgoth was still mighty and the elves had basically just arrived in Middle Earth. The Elves had hardly begun to lose their strength as it had been diminished so far during The War of the Ring. So Ecthelion vs. Gothmog was two titans (of spirit, not necessarily size on the part of Ecthelion) clashing against each other. So to use that to diminish Sauron's stature is not accurate imo
Another good point is how all the valar and maiar alike all had limitations placed on them in order to go to middle earth, I'm pretty sure they're all atleast 30% from their full strength while in middle earth, the valar probably even further limitations when they're not in valinor
That was only the wizards, so they would help guide humanity into solving its dark lord problem instead of just taking over and beating Sauron themselves. Every other time the auinur are at full strength
The valar have never been nerfed, they were ordered to stay out of the elves and men business, totally different thing. As far as the wizards, they were the only ones that were nerfed because they were sent to be guides , and that’s it.
Sauron broke a sword once that contained a Silmaril, those are said to hold the “power of an unknown amount of stars” or something, that could be enough reasoning for Sauron being able to shatter Frostmourne
Since when has the sword a silmaril? It wasn't even elvish. Not to mention he didn't break the sword, it broke under ellendil's body as he fell. Edit: or are you talking about another sword?
@@koreancowboy42 could you cite it? because I can't find any source supporting that, none of the description from the book mention what it was made of, just that it was made by the dwarf Telchar who made a knife that cut a Silmaril from the crown of Morgoth and that it was shiny (far from being the only one); although it did say it was magical and could tear through armors, but still not unique trait for lotr weapons. Furthermore the sword did break from just the falling body of Ellendil, so idk about its durability even if it was a beast at cutting.
@@koreancowboy42 the Silmarils couldn't be broken or shaped after they were forged. The only one who knew the secret of their composition was/is Feanor, and he'll never tell cause he's Feanor. A weapon infused with something as significant as a Silmaril would be the subject of intense legend. We would have heard something about it. There's nothing in the texts, unfortunately, supporting anything otherwise.
Maybe I missed it but I thought Sauron could manipulate Arthas into causing an internal conflict for the Lich King. I'm going to have to watch this again.
The animation was crazy, imagine they started out creating this foggy scene that we also saw from the Bolvar vs. Sylvanas fight making the Lich King use the eye of horus, then sauron strikes back as "the eye". After that The Lich King calls out for Sindragosa to help him fight Saurons Nazgul in which she succeds at first but then gets overwhelmed by them. Would highlight the alleged edge Sauron has, even tho I understand animating all of this would be asking for too much. Edit: Also after winning the fight Sauron should put on the Lich King armor to become God Tier Raid Boss
Seeing how big of a LOTR fan Asmon is, maybe he should give Lord of the Rings Online a shot. I started about 2 months ago and I'm really enjoying it. Getting to explore a massive and accurate version of Middle Earth, and visiting all of the landmarks that The Fellowship and Bilbo traveled to is what really makes it special IMO
Sauron could definitely destroy Frostmourne with the power of the ring - the ring is made of Saurons soul which in of itself is holy, since Sauron was created from the mind and essence of Eru(god). All Ainur have Holy Power, even Melkor, as they all represent an aspect of Eru and his power. You cant really compare or scale the magic from these universes because they work so differently, but if you go by the Holy magic scaling an think he couldnt destroy it, he more than definetly could because his very being is Holy.
@@gerbo8018 his mace is the extention of himself though. Like he could theoretically just morph into a gain werewolf the size of a Balrog and fight like that. His mace as his armor literally appear as the one being which is Sauron. Maybe I am wrong though.
@@gerbo8018 yeah, the whole "holy" thing is confusing for me. Because I'm not sure if Ashbringer beats Frostmourne because it has some sort of "holy" property or purely strength that is considered "holy". I feel like it's second option. But maybe I'm wrong.
@@vitaliyred622 Another point about Saurons mace: Even if it was not an extension of himself (which it probably is), we have to remember that Sauron is an *absolute* beast of a Blacksmith. And let's be honest, would a semi-godlike being, who's known for smithing, create a weapon that doesn't measure up to itself? I doubt it.
Listening to asmon geek out about Lord of the Rings stuff at the start of the video was the highlight of the video for me. Just a dude who knows his lore and is passionate about it
25:47 True, but Sauron was wielding the One Ring, which has a similarly epic scaled origin and history. It's not clear how the Maia scale to the Naaru, but from a pure narrative standpoint they're comparable enough: essentially angels. I could buy the Ring would give Sauron the power to break Frostmourne.
Pretty sure they didn't take in to account Arthas' heart; we managed to beat him by significantly weakening him by destroying his heart. But if his heart was still intact, he would be miles stronger.
25:00 - Imagine if you're listening to Asmon explain Frostmourne and the Ashbringer if you're someone who has never played Warcraft 3 or WoW. The lore's insane lol
My biggest problem with this fight is that they used Shadow of War and Rings of Power for scaling. Neither of those are canon, so in my opinion they shouldn't count for power.
You'd have to be cutting off every other comic *insert earth number* otherwise. Unless its downright a contradiction to cannon and non official it still counts. Shadow of mordor is still official so its fair game.
@@Sephiroso. During his time on Númenor, Sauron had disguised himself in a handsome mortal form, but its sinking destroyed his body and permanently robbed him of the ability to shape-shift. His spirit fled back to Mordor, where he built a new body and regained his strength. I just copied and pasted this but this is what I think their mostly referencing. Basically its something that's more possible than not if he has the ring, without it he can't really do anything as a spirit though is my guess of what your referencing.
@@Sephiroso. the animation is just for show theirs really no telling if the lich king could actually use the curse on sauron since his human form is never really considered "organic". Like if his body is just a magical husk I could see it not working at all. (Its just sort of a matter of perception)
Wait until you read about Archaon the Everchosen of Warhammer, they weren't even subtle about it. A warrior-priest who fell to evil and wears the (I kid you not) Crown of Domination.
@@bilbobagend8155 Warcraft 3 in July and that WFB in June. Though for sure the warcraft stuff was written first as that was the major plot of the game itself
I think Zack is forgetting the fact that the “elvish magic” they are talking about with Nasil is literally the same magic that the elves used to cleanse the rings that they were given by Sauron to ensure they could still wear them after realizing that Sauron had power over them.
the elves weren't given rings by Sauron. Celebrimbor made The Three himself. THe rings given by, and made with impot from, Sauron were the Seven and the Nine.
Two pretty epic characters. It was cool, and I love Sauron's character. Lich King was the second one I had to see after Sauron, during my discoveries of dark lordes and such.
The whole manifestation of the "Eye of Sauron" is a Peter Jackson creation. In the books, the only "Eye of Sauron" is described as emblazoned on the banners of the orcish horde of Mordor. The whole big floaty eye thing just wasn't a thing in the books. Also, Isildur cut the ring off an already beaten Sauron, as Sauron fell at the same moment Elendil and Gil-galad. Isildur cut the finger and took the ring off an already beaten enemy, and in his exact words, "I take it as weregild for my father and brother". Seems to me like these Death Battle folks took most of their Sauron lore from the movies, which is kinda dookie imo. Great animation though for sure.
That being said, if Sauron can be beaten at his peak by a handful of Elves and Humans, essentially crippling his power and removing his physical form...that makes me believe that if the Lich King can kill the physical body with his plague, the only way he can be beaten by Sauron's "spirit form" is if Sauron somehow convinces the LK that he is his servant and distracts him. Sauron only ever won a single battle in his 2000 years as Dark Lord. He was not an amazing warrior, but rather a cunning strategist. I just don't see Sauron being able to take on LK one on one, if we are to go with Tolkien lore.
@@rhyknowsden Whenever Sauron's physical form is destroyed, it takes a long time and a lot of power for him to reform. So in a purely martial contest I think the Lich King beats him most of the time, but if we're just looking at the animation as a fun show instead of a real result then that changes things. Sauron is far smarter and experienced, in a 'real' battle of two lords who battle with large armies things are different. That being said, I think the scourge are a far stronger army than what Sauron commands in the second and third ages. However Sauron is far superior to the Lich King in all other aspects.
You are correct that the eye was a just a context device to represent Sauron in the films, but non the less, Sauron was still able to exist and fight as a spirit without a specific form, as was described in the writings.
The Eye of Sauron WAS in the books, but it appeared only in the minds of people influenced by the Ring. It's a spiritual representation of Sauron, though it can't manifest physically like in the movies.
@@rhyknowsden Look at it as a symbolism of of their wits and armies going at eachother for thousands of years. Sauron "loses" in a physical fight as Arthas is more skilled in combat. Sauron abandon his body and retreats to recover. Arthas ether A) thinks hes won or B) has no knowledge of how to defeat Saurons spiritual form. Now over the next few years, or hundreds of even thousands, Sauron re groups and regains strength. Me while hes deployed his spies and his minions within Arthas' leadership, perhaps even convincing them to fight for Sauron instead of Arthas. Sauron wins the long game every single time. Now when you look at it from a pure spiritual body fight or magic on magic (Sauron did fight Gandalf this way canonically in the books) he still wins. Saurons mind and will is much stronger then that of Arthas. But rather then showing a Death battle that takes place over thousands of years where its Sauron's armies and minions taking out the Lich King and the Scourge, they animated an epic fight of the eye representing Saurons Will, Mind, Magic and true Power, fighting Lich King and his Magic.
@@soulcyclone360 I did, in the fight there was no major usage of the undead by either side, both basically smacked each other for awhile and then sauron shattered Frostmourne (something he probably couldn't actually pull off). Both are rulers (one is a lord the other a king) who not only fight mainly with their respective armies and their armies are a major part of their power. No one is afraid of arthus without the scourge and Sauron isn't a real threat without his army, so a comparison between their respective fighting forces (and how the would use them in a one on one fight) is relavint.
@@Daggy1111 so when Arthus impaled Sauron and said that he serves him now, implying that he was trying to take him over with the Scourge but ultimately failed, that just didn't count for you?
Considering the Valar imbued a large chunk of their power into the creation of the world, meaning Morgoth is only a shadow of his previous power. It's unknown to me if Mairon (Sauron) had something similar happen, but he was definitely weakened after his body was destroyed in Numenor.
"metal made from another planet" Sounds like a convenient plot weapon than saying just how indestructible something is. The explanation for Ashwalker makes more sense than that.
He's got a point about Narsil vs Ashbringer. Instead of comparing Elven Magic, the in-universe equivalent would be a blade infused with the soul of a Maia or maybe a Valar.
27:45 "moving the sun and moon" sounds impressive, until you remember that they aren't celestial bodies in Middle Earth. Definitely not when the feats would have happened. They'd have been more spiritual than physical, and their physical elements were pieces of a tree. A very large tree, but nowhere near the scale of a star.
The math, outcome and comparisons are fine and I don't mind that the Lich King lost, but damn do I feel like they did him dirty in the fight. Lich King is built like a tank and is teleporting around like he's in an anime. He doesn't do that in fights, like, ever, not in HotS not in WoW, he only uses gates to make entrance and exits. Also why he floating? I don't remember him floating.
@@dumbboyalex4396 Just remember that DB is never 100% correct on their feats. But its already obvious that if Sauron vs LK were to be in 1 v 1, it can go in either of their favor (do you honestly think LK will have a hard time fighting Gilgalad and Elendil?) As Sauron did. ANd if we even THINK OF bringing their armies to the fight, then the Scourge fodders Saurons armies.
After fighting at Light Chapel the Lich King teleports to escape from Tirion after the Ashbringer was cleansed. Like yeah LK has gates but in the Lights Chapel quest he legit just.. teleports. When the Lich King showed up during the Argent tournament, he destroyed the ground below the champions while he was standing on it, but was still floating. Oh also in the WoW chronicle volume 3, it says that Ner’Zhul had charged his necropolis with flight magics. It’s not out of the ordinary to see him be able to fly since has has the magic to and.. has, flown. Hope this helps!
The elves never put on their rings while Sauron was wearing his, they saw right through him while he was parading as Annatar and didn't trust him. That's why they weren't corrupted like men.
I thought they found out he was the lord of gifts and stole the rings away before he could corrupt them. Pretty sure they did not really see right through him was just suspicious of him which led to him being found out.
@@Roar126 I'm pretty sure he was found out before he could corrupt the rings and they were stolen away early. Because the elfs use the rings and they would still be corrupted as long as the one ring exists.
@@deancampbell8206 when Sauron put on the one ring the Elf lords took off theirs, they didn't wear them again until after the war of the last alliance where the ring was cut from Sauron's finger.
@@deancampbell8206 they wore the rings after saurons hand was cut off. because their rings are made to be a force for good. it's the power of the one ring that corrupted them.
So based on this summary/ outline, it looks like Sauron is not actually gone gone. In decades to come, someone could create more LotR story (sequels) and have some character use magic to recreate the dissolved/ melted ring from the volcano's lava and summon Sauron back. It wouldn't have to be the ring. It could be a different sort of artifact but it would have the essence
Well, if I remember correctly, in the silmarillion tolkien states that in the 'Dagor Dagorath' or the final battle, Morgoth, Sauron and all darkness will return to Arda and destroy mankind, so all Valar and Eldar will return from Valinor to fight evil again one last time according to the Ainulindale, or the song of creation.
I think the reliance on the Shadow of Mordor/War games and the narrow scope of the prologue from FotR does Sauron a disservice in constructing this battle. If you look at any of the books, Sauron isn't a martial character and doesn't move at warp speeds with mountain-cracking swings of his mace. Two of the fights he was involved with were against Finrod Felegund, a battle of magical song, and against Luthien, which he lost. But he beat Felegund because when it came to singing, Felegund was one of the most skilled elves while Sauron had actually helped sing the world into being. Granted, that's much harder to quantify, let alone animate.
To clarify, the smiths of Eregion and Gondolin in the first age were such masterful smiths that the metal they forged was impervious to the ravages of time. To put into perspective, when Thorins company finds the troll hoarde that had Orcrist and Glamdring, the swords themselves had been lost for about 10000 years. The elves of the first age were as close to gods as you could get aside from the Maia.
Arthas was right to purge the city, he wasn't right to go north and sell his soul and men for the sword. He should have marched west like the prophet said and help fight against the legion.
25:38 bro sauron literally helped to build the whole mf universe with other valars and maiars such as himself, so whatever planet the metal are coming from will not stop a maiar, a literall angel who worked with valars and learned their knowledge
Even myself being a huge LOTR fan, Id still say Lich King would win. Saurons greed and over confidence would be his downfall. I mean the dude never even had security at mount doom which was basically his heart.. lmao
I guess in my mind I feel this could go either way. Just as they had Sauron destroy Frostmourne, the Lich King could have easily cut off Sauron's fingers, separating him from the One Ring, resulting in Sauron's defeat much like happens in the actual books. And just imagine if the Lich King got the One Ring and put it on -- I really think this is much more of a toss up than it appears, and the LK could also very likely win this.
sauron can fight as a spirit and dominate, however after he spent great lengths to pour massive amounts of his soul into the one ring due to believing he was invincible. The loss of the ring meant he lost most of his power
Being sauron I don't think he would fight the lich king at hand to hand but instead he would slowly dominate the lich kings minions until he dominates the lich king himself. Maybe he would sabotage, bribe, manipulate and trick the lich king into submitting himself to sauron. Hell he could just fool the lich king with some shiny new toy and next thing he knows his already a mindless wraith
Frostmourne can only be countered by a spirit blade, only two beings have ever been able to counter it. Felo'melorn was used by Kaelthas and nearly won, and as mentioned, the ashbringer was another spirit blade.
The jewel in The Ashbringer, from what I understand, was actually a shadow crystal that was found off of the undead. It was then empowered by light, and then put on a sword, thus creating ashbringer. Isn't that correct?
I was wondering after seeing the original video if Asmon would watch it. Glad he did. I’ve been following deathbattle since 2013, and despite being biased with most fights (which is normal) the analysis normally convinces me why the fights conclude the way they do, and I learn a lot of new things too
Sauron isn't really meant to be that strong of a combatant. While he is the strongest Maiar this does not mean physically, Gothmog could certainly kick his ass. Sauron was strong because of his manipulation and cunning, he was the strongest in his ability to control and dominate.
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Regardless of how you feel about the outcome, Sauron melting the frozen throne by sitting on it is pretty metal
No it's hot cause it's melting
FUCK YEAH
Well, pretty liquid 🤘
the only thing the video forgot to take into account is that the Frostmourne was created to steal souls so on the basis that Sauron is a spirit, it would have a disadvantage.
Idk lol saruon got killed by a regular dude and an elf 🧝♂️
Sauron wasn't afraid of Gandalf specifically, he was hyper paranoid. He was afraid Gandalf was there, like him, seeking power and thus seeking the One Ring. He feared Gandalf getting his hands on the Ring and then pose a serious threat to Sauron.
And yet even Gandalf would never take that damn thing.
Wait, LOtR noob here. I thought the Ring corrupted whoever wore it? So wouldn't it make Gandalf into a mindless servant of Sauron?
@@alexblake5369 Maybe eventually, but remember - Sauron ran from a man that possessed the One Ring, solely because he could be destroyed by his own power. If you have that argument, then why did he run from Isildur?
Gandalf didn't avoid the ring because the potential of becoming enslaved to Sauron, but because he knew that the corruption would come in the desire to dominate and control. Being a maiar meant that he had the potential to become a dark force equal or greater than Sauron. After, of course, striking him down.
@@alexblake5369 The thing is like corruption does not occur instantly and also that Gandalf is of the same specie as Sauron : a Maiar. And he was sent in Middle Earth specifically to counter Sauron's influence. According to Tolkien's letters, had Gandalf taken the One Ring, he would have become stronger than Sauron and could have been able to destroy him. After that, he would have become even worst than him as, convinced of doing good, he would have turned middle-earth into an absolute dictatorship of perfect order under his own will and command.
@@alexblake5369 The one ring was not a ring that enslaved the user, it's the one that enslaved others. Gandalf didn't want the ring because he would have been tempted and taken the power for himself. Hence the line: "Don't tempt me Frodo!" Gandalf with the one ring probably could have overthrown Sauron, but at the cost of who he is.
Asmon just dropping pretty obscure Tolkien trivia at the start of this was genuinely impressive
For some reason that made me respect him a bit. He clearly read the books or at least did research.
Only a little. Basic stuff any tolkien fan should know
@@leonard9624 🙄
I believe he once told on stream that he debated with a friend of his at school on who knows Tolkien lore more.
I don't think its obscure its just accurate, people who don't look into lore might think its obscure. LOTR lore is wild and every fantasy fan should look into it. Either on youtube or just reading the source material. That's just my opinion tho
I WAS GENUINLY surprised he knew so much tho, whenever someone talks about LOTR and think they know what they are talking about but barely do. Its kinda cringe.
I think the biggest argument for a Sauron victory (that sadly wasn't mentioned) is that the One Ring's influence scales with the influencee's power and ambition. And Arthas is both very powerful and very ambitious.
The only reason Hobbits seem more resilient to the Ring is because they are neither. And as soon as Frodo was in a position of power to destroy the One Ring, its influence peaked to the point he refused to throw it in.
The only reason the One Ring was destroyed was because Gollum showed up and fought Frodo for it, ultimately falling into Mount Doom as a result of its own influence over others. This is intentional as to Tolkien, good does not destroy, and evil does not create. Evil destroys everything, and in the end, it destroys itself.
Why would LK pick up the one ring when his armor does everything it does 50 times better?
@@ANDELE3025 What the One Ring exactly does is never clear because we only ever see its effects when it is worn by Sauron and when it is worn by a hobbit.
And only the latter is seen in detail.
Most agree that it amplifies abilities the wearer already has. Thus, as Hobbits are small and easy to miss, they receive invisibility.
On the other hand, Sauron was wearing it right before his fall and he was not invisible, but was cleaving through swathes of armored warriors with each swing.
There is no reason not to expect it to stack with what the LK already has.
And again, it's influence is more sinister in that it makes you want it. It makes you see yourself as better with it, and this influence scales with how powerful and how ambitious you already are.
@@Revenant-oq9ts What the one ring does is actually stated (iirc explicitly in tolkiens letters to the publisher if you dont want to take the characters descriptions of it), like the rest of the rings it takes ambition/desires and turns it into power (only not of a specific type but as general amplification) by piercing a bit through the veil of arda without falling to the everlasting darkness. Its why tom was immune to it and hobbits dont get influenced as much due to lack of and very simple desires respectively. It specifically also attracts the other rings and imposes a hypnotic effect on others proportional to the wearers own personality (or the rings). The invisibility being a explicit effect of the ring vs the effect of the ring on mortals is up to question (sauron wouldnt go invisible either way as him taking form is a effect of his magic and his will and as tolkien said, the rings powers are under his will, no matter what the fraction of sentience the ring imposes on others).
Plate of the Damned meanwhile lets the wearer shrug off all magic weaker than his, protects from demons, spirits and ghosts as much as it does from blade and fist (more so technically as its lacking a lot of actually protective parts)/protect the wearers mind and soul (if any exists) and... well like the rest of the items was indestructible before retcons.
And "influence desires and ambition" does nothing when one is already dead inside with the ability to psionically mind control anything within range of a eurasia sized continent (that you become aware of).
@@ANDELE3025 Well following that logic, the Plate would only protect against the One Ring if the One Ring were weaker, and if the data DB used is to believe, it is not.
Plus there is a flaw in the writing there when someone is "dead inside" and simultaneously has the desire to muster up a plan and resources to end everything.
A character can only be one. Not both at the same time.
Deep
Sauron: "I'll tear out your heart!"
Arthas: "You will find nothing there!"
Such a BA line for Arthas to say in my opinion
That's badass -dicktone
Sauron fought two gods, at the same time.
Or if you want to nerf gandalf, you can say sauron fought a God and an avatar of a god.
arthas ripped his own heart out after fighting illidan pretty metal tbh
Lol? Sounded emo as fuck. Arthas listen to linkin park and watch ulquiorra amvs?
@@kintsugi3932 You say that like that's a bad thing.
Right off the bat I did not expect Asmon to be popping LOTR facts the way he was.
Neither did i. But it makes sense if you think about it haha
Also his warhammer knowledege surprised me, true nerd ;)
There’s other videos of him spitting out LOTR lore. And he’s really spot on with most of it
@@BigMikey1776 I remember stumbling across a video a while ago and he was talking about obscure characters that I had completely forgotten about. Granted it's been like 20 years since I've read the books and Asmon seems to be able to recall information well (as evidenced in his transmog comps and ban appeals), I can't say I'm surprised he remembers it all.
@@jackoridge6754 which is funny because the silmarillion is more interesting lmo
I'm not convinced that Sauron could shatter Frostmourne, but I am convinced Sauron could beat the Lich King
@Sephiroso I don't care about the finger chopping off because it was already after he was defeated and plot armor, so the plot of the book could actually happen.
@@Sephiroso. wasn't the cutting of the hand pretty much luck and blind swing? It's not like it was a intentional kill shot.
@@GypsyDaenger In the movies yes, in the book that's not how it happens.
@@Sephiroso. sauron was already down when his finger got cut off. What you said is irrelevant
@@Sephiroso. it was luck when Sauron had his finger choped off and he can fight in spirit form you total re**** :D wtf he fought Galadriel he fought Gandalf in spirit form so STFU and go watch Marvel
10:20 this is just amazing how good lotr looked. the cgi is miles ahead of any hero movies that came out in recent years
There’s also very little of it, as most of the filming was on location and the magic stuff was fairly light.
thats because its cgi+practical effects
@@abhabh6896 20% cgi 80% practical
fucking mad lads
Na they just knew how to use it and when
On Frostmourne being shattered, you have to remember that Sauron was a apprentice of Aule, the Valar of smiths, and forged his own weapons. That mace was definetly flowing with enchantments and secret godly technuiqes that sauron possessed. It was also based on Grond, Morgoths mace, which was one of the most powerful weapons in the setting I belive.
Still hard to believe given the magics and enchantments in the LOTR universe pale in comparison to the Warcraft universe.
@@madmintentertainment6268 please explain I don't see it.
@@Ironwill902 magic in tolkien's works exists and can be very powerful, it just isn't used as often as powerful magicks are in something like WoW or LoL or other mediums, neither is it super flashy
@@Ironwill902 watch the battle between saruman and gandalf at caradhras. i think it was not in the books, but it's a good demonstration of what is magic in tolkien world.
@@bBleedingMoon Bro if it's not in the books I'm not going to take it seriously. All that does it boost a character to a power level that makes no sense and sets up a character to win when they shouldn't. So no the most I will say when middle-earth was somewhat equivalent was during the first age.
Everyone forgets that it was Actually Elendil and Gil-Galad who actually brought down Sauron in combat. Isildur cut off the ring after. And to Isildur's credit he wasn't even all that corrupted after taking it, he was bringing the ring to Elrond when he was killed.
yeah, I think their is a weird mixture of movie knowledge and actual lore happening most of the time.
In the book some regular dude and random elf happens to kill the dark lord with impunity 😂
@@t0m653 I wouldn't exactly say impunity (they did die in the process after all). And Elendil, being a roughly 8ft tall super human even when compared to other numenorians is pretty far from regular. As for Gil Galad he wielded what was probably the second most powerful of the rings.
Even together though they were way bellow Sauron's weight class in terms of power. It's just that Sauron for all his power was a planner and a craftsman. He wasn't known for his skill at arms. Powerful in an insidious way, but not much of a fighter. Him fighting in the front lines was at the time a desparate last resort.
@@draketurner1850 Ik I am joking. Elendil the tall is my favorite Numenorian in the book.
Sauron was at his weakest at that time
30:07- Well, in the books Isiuldur only cut the finger off Sauron's corpse. Sauron's body was killed and his soul basically knocked out from fighting and killing Gil Galad and Elendil, two uber powerful characters.
No? Sauron fought both Gil-Galad and Elendil and was heavily wounded/maimed by the two as they died - Sauron shattered the blade Elendil had been using, Narsil, as he defeated them by stepping on the blade and Isildur picked up his father's broken sword by the hilt and used it to cut off Sauron's finger in the confusion.
@@Blissy1175 That's from the films...not from the actual lore. The films changed it. In the actual lore it's exactly like M Armyeater mentioned. The ring was taken AFTER Sauron was already "killed".
This makes much more sense. As someone who just watched the movies, I was kinda like “How can he win against the Lich King when he was just beat by some random guy?”
@@seilamano3974 Sauron also grabs Gil-Galad and his hatred for the elf king burns so hot that Gil-Galad literally gets roasted alive. The burns ended up killing him.
@Jim Harrington No.
Actually the one Ring does not turn who wears it invisible. It just amplifies ones strenght...
Basically, if Asmon was to put the One Ring on, it would only just lead to instant hairloss...
@@CadavreSansNoms dont forget that he reacts to reactions made on those reactions...
That means people like Josh Strife would have uploaded a reaction to it without him actually doing it just so that the reation to the reaction would be made.
I call it the Asmon Paradox.
Literally rewriting time...
@@edgyguy7084
Narsil was made of dwarven steel from the first age, but it was heavily enchanted that it could cut any armour or flesh regardless its toughness, after all its sister blade angrist cut the silmaril from the crown of morgoth, but with anduril which was reforged from the shards of narsil could effect spirits/ghosts, the irony of sauron is that despite he was morgoths general he was originally a forge smith and or craftsman
Yeah and Aeglos, Gil-Galad's weapon, was a spear that "None could stand against." Sauron took multiple hits from both Aeglos and Narsil, also killing both their wielders before succumbing to his wounds.
He was originally aules miar. Which is the valar that created the dwarves and is the valar of smithing. He created the chains that bound melkor aka morgath. So was Saruman. Which is pretty crazy. He’s disciples were corrupted but his creations were basically incorruptible except for their greed for gold and gems. And I guess dragon sickness. But the rings had little affect on them.
Both of those items were crafted by the same dwarf who is largely considered to be the best dwarven smith that ever existed. He also made a helmet that basically makes you unkillable during battle which i always found pretty funny because all its ever used for is killing a very notable dragon and that is about it. Many owners of the Helm didn't even use it because it was pretty bulky and it was clearly made for a dwarf.
I think this fight is so close because both of these characters are so ill-defined and powerful that they can go from mountain level all the way to universal level depending on how you interpret the lore
their lore is abit all over the place but i think it does come down to the lich king's sword needs a counter or excessively powerful force to destroy it and sauron's ring needs a specific mountain that in this scenario could be in another galaxy and you also need to read the ring or know its history to kill sauron plus overall sauron spent thousands of years outsmarting his superiors in power and his equals while growing in all forms of power and he started off as the equivilent of a cosmic being 2 levels below the god of his multiverse so in comparison the lichking is just kinda out of his depth since he is at his highest point planatary
Look, if (og) lich king was still alive Lizzard writers would still have their necro waifu Sylvanas step all over him with ease.
@@Ark-oi3qySauron was defeated after having been smited by his universe's God, having been brought to a fraction of his power, before being double-teamed by the legendary ruler of a race of superhumans and one of the greatest Elven warriors that ever lived, both of whom had some of the strongest magical items any mortal ever wielded.
Yes, Sauron took a millennium to come back. But only after something that would kill the Lich King twice over.
@@Ark-oi3qy Gil-Galad and ELENDIL were both the strongest fighters of their races, wielding legendary weapons and they barely managed to 'throw Sauron down', while losing their own lifes. And all that when Sauron was in a weakened state. he had permanently lost his maiar 'body', which was destroyed by the Creator himself and was only able to assume a lesser form.
Tulkas winning against Sauron is also kind of a weak argument, since Tulkas is quite literally The Ultimate Fighter, who would win against anyone in a 1-on-1 fight, including Melkor, the overall most powerful of the Valar.
As a bigtime LOTR nerd, i have got to give Asmon props for his knowledge of the lore. This guy knows his stuff.
Honestly I think they're spot on when it comes down to experience. I don't necessarily agree on the power difference being notable enough to be an advantage, but the difference between 50k years and like 60 is absolutely massive
Arthas was only 26 when wrath happened, but I guess Nerzhul was quite old, but then again he or the entire history of the Lich king didn't last as long as 60 years.
@@alirezasaliani5165 It's been around 40 years since the dark portal opened iirc so I figured a good couple years of combat experience between nerzhul and arthas pre-lich king into the numbers
@@beilog7489 It's not stated, but implied. Sauron hates all of middle earth, his very purpose is to destroy it.
@@beilog7489 same can be said for lich king, how much time did he spend on the frontlines, and how much just managing armies on a throne. both did almost identical roles in their respective realms, as such you could expect that both would allocate a simmiliar ammount of time in a year to figthting. even if you bend in in arthuses favor and claim sauron spent more time on his ass and only battled 1/100th as often as arthas, with how long hes lived, that still translates to millennia more of combat experience
I hated how they used island lifting to validate power I knew some bs measurement would sway it so hard lol
I'm pleasantly surprised how knowledgeable you are in Tolkien's legendarium
Have you ever looked at him?
@@BigKnecht meaning what ?
@@BigKnecht lots of room ridden baldies don’t read.
im was surprised too, as a tolkein die hard fan i was blown away by how much he knew
@@TheeGoodSir yup same.
I assumed sauron would win because his source of power cannot be destroyed by the lich king, but the lich king's source of power could be destroyed by sauron.
Well saurons source of power could be taken away though. The lich king was a pretty good swordsman. Cut off Saurons hand again.
@@nathanhargenrader645 that's my big thing. In the books, Sauron fell while in possession of his ring, and Isildur cut it from an already fallen foe. If a human can walk up to the Dark Lord post battle and cut the ring from his finger, I think everything after Arthas kills his physical body is just Peter Jackson headcanon.
Actually in Tolkiens letters he wrote that the one ring could be destroyed by craftmenship equal to or greater than itself.
Frostmourne is made by the Primus, one of the most powerful beings in the universe and one the most skilled craftsmen in the entire universe.
It really stands to reason Frostmourne could destroy the ring, but neither Arthas or Sauron would know that.
Yeah, but Arthas can destroy his soul since Frostmourne attacks the soul as well as the body.
I thought from the start that Sauron was more powerful and experienced so he had an edge but I was surprised at the fact that what I would consider the lich kings edge frostmourne would fail to devour Sauron in soul form. Even if Sauron is more powerful it is much easier to devour his soul or cut off a ring than to destroy frostmourne. Tactically I think the lich king has a 60/40 chance but this video went power scaling so it ended this way. And Saurons source(the ring) could potentially be corrupted by the lich king as Arthas has already subjugated a far more powerful being than himself in the armor and is now stronger still. He could also just cut off the finger and use his magic to find the source or connection to the ring and go to mount doom if he couldn't corrupt the ring as he did the armor. I'm not too bothered either way but I feel that Arthas had a chance to win albeit not a guarantee.
All Arthas had to do was break his helmet, sending Sauron through a portal to the shadowlands where he would eventually die of boredom.
wouldn't work. The ring is bound to the world, if the ring exist Sauron will return. Sauron as a Maia was able to travel the planes and return to the Iluvatar's embrace whenever he wanted but he rejected that and bound himself to the world with the ring.
You can debate endlessly about Sauron being able to shatter Frostmourne, but Narsil is certainly not just bog-standard steel.
Arthas would totally snatch the ring and go "such a little thing"
Picking up powerful cursed objects and getting corrupted by them is basically what Arthas does all the time.
Sauron is the guy who makes them.
If Arthas got his hands on the ring, the ring would certainly have trouble controlling him since he has both his own soul, and Ner'Zul's. The real issue would be "snatching" the ring, though...
@@oddvoid if you read the books isildur only cut the ring off a corpse, the films kinda fucked that scene up for brevity since it would need to show that 2v1 fight before it with Elendil and Gil Galad dealing death blows to Sauron and dying in the process
@@SquirrelGamez The ring is able to enchant Angel level beings. luring Arthas/Nerzhul whould be a non issue....
@@garymcjerry the ring basically is him, he imbued himself and all his power almost into the ring. Everything the ring is Saurons will basically
@@thehermit8723arthas made a whole as citadel of a old god blood. For normal mortals they snaps just even liking at it and made every shit with it and even undead was hearing voice he is invulnerable of corruption a this state even the jailor couldn’t
In fairness, Ecthellion didn't kill Gothmug, he outwitted his enemy into falling into a bottomless fountain where the giant fire demon drowned.
This was after he had basically already beaten Ecthelion.
@Human374 even Gandalf was only able to defeat Durin's Bane *AFTER* the Balrog sustained a terminal velocity fall plus a dousing.
@@Etherealsighting They fought for 3 days and 2 nights on top of that. Granted Gandalf was massively limited on the power he was allowed to use.
He shouldn't have skipped his swimming lessons.
Ecthellion was a first age noldor elf bathed in the lights of the trees and general of gondolin, not some random dude.
Sauron lost his shape shifting ability when his body died during the fall of numenor. After that he could only choose from a small set of 'bad guy' forms like the sorcerer in the Hobbit or the tall figure we see in lotr.
not really, I believe it is stated that Sauron cannot shape shift into the physical forms he died in. For example the werewolf form or the one he had in Numenor,. He could still shape shift into other forms.
@@danmorariu9889 This topic is much discussed among book fans because this doesn't have a 100% clear answer. What we know definitely is that he lost his ability to take on a "fair" form so he definitely couldn't turn into Annatar again nor any other form in which he could deceive the elves in. He could only take on "vile" forms, to what forms exactly we don't know. A big clue to the complete loss of his ability is the fact that his body still only has 9 fingers during lotr even after reforming his body which took thousands of years.
True but we're doing strongest form of each, hence why we got Arthas Lich King
@@BapeRuLLZ that a deleted scene or something? I don't remember seeing him except his death
@@Rhodair I think he can be seen one time in a deleted scene standing on top of his tower, but in the books it is made very clear he has a physical body. The big eye on top of the tower is a movie-only thing. In the books he personally tortures Smeagol and later Smeagol talks about this to the hobbits and mentions that he only has 9 fingers. He doesn't need the ring to have a body, the 'exploding upon getting my finger cut-off' is also a movie thing, in the books they just kill his body and cut off his finger after that.
I think this fight was closer than anyone realizes... Sauron's physical embodiment has been killed before, but his spirit was able to move on after his avatar's demise. If Arthas had connected a killing blow with Frostmourne, I think Sauron's soul/essence would have been absorbed. It's very possible that Sauron would have sufficient power to break free from Frostmourne, and in so doing, shatter the blade from upon his escape, but if that is the case the battle was no contest from the start.
Note that Sauron was a capable master of dark magic and craftsman.
He also managed to trick and control elves and dwarves and men with rings.
Even more so the ring gives him lots of power it's his soul and power even if Lich King can pull something off, no way Sauron was gonna be able to lose so easily.
A Maiar spirit is in no way comparable to a normal mortal soul, you’re talking about a magic ice sword absorbing the atemporal, aspatial, deathless essence of an entity that helped sing every concept and thing into existence from a void outside all possible realities
Frostmourne couldn’t absorb an Ainu anymore than it could absorb a Platonic Form
Frostmourne cannot absurd Sauron’s soul. Sauron’s spirit is too powerful and it was designed to absorb mortal souls. Not god like being souls
To those who are in argument about if Sauron could break Frostmourne or those newer to death battles it is something to note that the animation that shows is not a definitive "this is how it would go down" situation but is just a way they put together a video for theatrics of it resolving in a way that the creators think is cool to watch.
Especially since in a lot of Death Battles they’ve stated that fights could easily last for days or years
Like Dio vs Alucard where they stated that because Dio had such a brutally reliable way to maneuver away and around Alucard with time stopping, a never ending supply of blood that he could reliably feed off of for in infinite stamina, and light speed feats by matching the light speed attacks of Star Platinum, he could hide during the day and return to finish the progress he’s made taking Alucard’s lives
Very true that fact changes a lot of the animations because so many of them would just be boring like realistically speaking Omni Man versus homelander would have homelander speed Blitz Nolan only to literally shatter upon impact
I've long awaited for this day. I remember when he and one of his friends argued about it, Asmon went for Sauron hard
''I would gladly bear any curse to save my homeland.'' - Arthas Menethil
Gets the ring on his finger....."Oh fuck I did it again didn't I?" -"You utter fool Arthas!"
Same
LK Arthas changed by then, Paladin Arthas is very different.
I dont know why the hell i expected this to be an epic rap battle of history 🤣
same! lmao
Your not alone
I miss those days
Yeah 🤣🤣
Freaking same. My mind auto-corrected the word "death" in the title with the word "rap" the moment I saw the title of the video. God damn.
0:20 - I mean, Balrogs being beaten by Elves isn't a knock against the Power of the Maiar, it's just that Tolkien Elves (especially those of the first age and the greatest elven lords) were basically demigods in their own right (and had really good magic/weapons). I mean, yeah he lost and was killed, but Fingolfin was able to fight Melkor/Morgoth (aka the greatest of Tolkien's Ainur, a being second *only* to the one God Eru in power) in single combat, and did well enough to permanently wound him seven times over a long fight that shattered the lands around them. The greatest elven lords were certainly on the level of Maiar like the Balrogs, Sauron, and the like.
27:30 - Elvish magic was able to permanently wound Melkor... I don't see what makes Frostmourne (or Ashbringer) stronger than that. Sure it doesn't have the whole "holy space rock" shiny backstory but the results speak for themselves IMO.
Exactly, not to mention that melkor nerfed himself when he decided to wear the silmarils, they handicapped him. Fingolfin , and even feanor we’re outstanding warriors and powerful elves, perhaps the most, except that idiot feanor was too much of a douche canoe and had his head up his ass, but he stood against several balrogs , including gothmog, until he got overwhelmed and killed.
Both defeated by mortals so the same results.
The only reason Fingolfin could fight melkor was by that time he had used much of his power spreading darkness. If it was at he height of his power, Fingolfin would not have stood a chance in hell. Melkor was as powerful as all the original valar put together many times over.
@@ericswenson7504Tolkien elves are not mortal
@@jcbillman they die to mortal wounds they are in fact mortals.
Long living isn't the same as immortality.
21:33 Sauron's famously transformed into a wolf to battle Huan.
I am impressed how much Asmon knows the LOTR lore and history. Great video!
Asmongold hated Return of the King because he knew it was coming to an end!
Right off the bat, his knowledge of Tolkien lore made my respect for Asmon increase by an order of magnitude
I'm not, he's a nerd like us dude.
@@deetsitmeisterjd delusional
Cuz thats his goal, make you think he Tolkien savvy, but most shit he probably heard it or read little things here and there, bet you he.hanst read the Silmarilion
God, thank you for bringing an actual both sides to the table kind of thing. I absolutely believe that Sauron CAN beat Arthas without question, but just not the way that it was represented here. You also forgot that there were some inaccuracies such as the DB team forgetting to pretty much spell out that the frostmourne is WoW's version of Sauron's rings.
Way weaker than the one ring. And while the ring is a core to his power, he doesn’t need it for basic things while Arthas was rendered completely useless without the sword.
@@homelander2243 I wouldn't go as far as say it's way weaker, considering the feats it had in the lore prior to the retcons were quite impressive and effortless. However, I can give you that Arthas is fucked without the Frostmourne as that was the main source of power, meanwhile Sauron has the edge of being what he is, and forging the cursed items himself.
the issue with Sauron as a combatant is that he's more of a concept than a character so its hard to gauge his limits.
Sauron has some notable combative feats. He soloed 2 of the greatest fighters of the second age, both his enemies had powerful weapons, and although Sauron did die he managed to kill them both and destroy one of the two weapons.
@@dmchai8401 I know this comment is ancient, but that’s not super impressive. Sauron’s physical body also perished in that fight and isildur cut the ring from his body (I think, not a lotr scholar). Arthas casually one shot 25 of the world’s greatest heroes. The powerscaling in wow is just too bonkers to ever make this a fair comparison.
@@dmchai8401 two normal people isn't impressive to the characters in wow
@@MGrey-qb5xz Two normal people? So disingenuous dude. These two were some of the best fighters in all of Middle Earth at the time. It was Elendril and Gil-galad, who both DIED in their battle against Sauron. Elendril was a King who wielded the legendary weapon Narsil in that battle, and he was "known as the greatest warrior of all the Dúnedain". He was Númenórean, which are of Men, but stronger than normal men so not comparable to a normal person. Gil-galad was also a King, and he is a Ñoldorin Elf. He had a title such as "High King of the Elves of the West, King of the Eldar, King of Lindon, Lord of the High Elves, and the Lord of Eriador." He wielded the legendary weapon Aeglos in the battle against Sauron.
Sauron ultimately won the fight as they both perished and he lived to recover his strength, as he cannot be permanently killed unless the ring is destroyed. Isildur cut Sauron's finger AFTER he was already incapacitated from the battle, but he was not dead or anything. It took 2 literal Kings who were not normal humans, 2 legendary weapons, and a suicide attempt to take down Sauron and they still failed. Both Elendril and Gil-galad would mop the floor with any common enemy in WoW, as they have done with hordes of orcs and other fiendish creatures in battle and probably countless times protecting their land in other scenarios already in the lore. They'd probably be able to take out several lesser non-mortal beings in WoW as well, depending on the variables. So far from "two normal people".
As someone else in the comments stated, "Yeah and Aeglos, Gil-Galad's weapon, was a spear that "None could stand against." Sauron took multiple hits from both Aeglos and Narsil, also killing both their wielders before succumbing to his wounds."
Whether he could win against The Lich King depends on many factors, and there really isn't enough information to give a clear answer. Both are immensely powerful, but both have their pros and cons. I don't think it's as easy as either side states since their 2 universes have different rules.
@@MrRADicalOfficial Gil-Galad was cracked, he's up definitely in the conversation of Feanor and Fingolfin. The Elves were literally built different back then when the world was much more magical.
Like look at what Legolas can do in the movies, than amplify that by 100x and you end up with Elves from the 1st and 2nd age
Sauron's mace was forged of me through in the fires of Mount Doom alongside the one ring.
It was the representation of his will to dominate, and served as a conduit for his power, bound to him similarly to the ring, though it didn't have his soul in it.
Asmongold should watch more death battle. The Dragonborn vs. The Chosen Undead would be a really good one for him to watch.
This was an easy clap. You got a mortal corrupted by an evil artifact, vs a godlike being who creates evil artifacts to corrupt mortals with. It was like throwing a demon against Guts, it's literally the type of being he wrecks on a daily basis.
@@Asghaad ummm...no lol your right about power levels being incomparable, but the deities, Maiar, and Valar are much stronger than most if not all of Warcrafts denizens
@@Asghaad the proof is in the Similarion lol
@@Asghaad yep lol
@@Asghaad you welcome I wish you a good day! 🤗
Balrogs would solo most of Azeroth
This is actually a legitimately good battle with Sauron.
Both of these baddies have epic armour, armies of chaff, and an absurdly powerful artifact
Edit: sorry, I meant as in they're both pretty equal but yeah they do seem hilariously similar
Wow it's almost like one was the inspiration for the other one. Crazy stuff
What I think would realisticaly happen tho, would be that such a death battle would never occur. Sauron would see Lich King comming and would manipulate him to join his side. Like he did with Saruman. It would be even easier, as Lich King would be far more willing to join Sauron and become his champion. Perhaps he would even gain a ring to even increase his power in exchange. With both of them working together, the Orcish Horde and the Undead army would also be under Sauron's complete controll. So Orcs wouldn't fight against Lich King, and Army of the Dead would not fight on Aragorn's side either. Or even if it would, it would be now countered by even greater undead army from Lich King.
damn warcraft really ripped off lotr, shameless
@@sten260 Well ... yeah. So did the most of fantasy stuff. From D&D to Warhammer to MtG to movies like The Sword and the Sorceror and Willow...
Actualy Warcraft took a lot of elements from these older sources and did their own spin.
But not just fantasy. And not just Lotr. They also took from Star Wars. Arthas is a good knight (paladin) who converts to undead and becomes the leader of that which he wowed to destroy. Killing his former comerades in the Paladin order. As well as his former teacher, Uther.
Compare that to Darth Vader. Who was good Jedi knight who converts to the Dark side and eventualy becomes the leader of that which he wowed to destroy, killing almost all the members of the Jedi order, he once belonged to.
I say that's at least a passing similarity.
I disagree - The Lich King is more on the lines of The Witch King (Can you see the reason?) than he is on Sauron's level. Sauron is more on the level of Archimonde and Kil'Jaeden which would have been better match-ups for him. This was a clear Mismatch from the start. I'd more akin Sauron to Archimonde and Morgoth to Sargeras.
I love that Asmon knows so much lotr lore, probably more than the rings of power showrunners
@@itachitsukuyomidcuo9853 Nah, Definitely way better than the RoP Showrunners. There are tons of 6 year olds who are better at LotR lore than them.
You realise the Tolkien estate limited them in what they could and couldnt use? Their source material was literally cliff notes and were given free reign on what they wanted to add as long as the general story of the 2nd age was kept the same. But im sure you and the youtuber you watched know more than Tolkiens estate and his literal words.
@@deathswitch2404 TH-cam's least pretentious comment
a chimpanzee with autism knows lotr better than rop showrunners
@@deathswitch2404 Even so, AMazon hired mediocore writers, and NEVER THE BEST. Just imagine a a billion dollar project, down the drain, cause your workers suck at improvising + wokeness.
3:04 You are absolutely correct. It was after Melkor killed Finwë, the first king of the Noldor, and stole the three Silmarils, Fëanor (Finwë’s son) named him Morgoth, meaning the “Black Foe of the World”. Morgoth still announced himself as Melkor when he interrogated Húrin, one of the legendary heroes of Men in the First Age.
You have to understand thought about Frostmoore is that Sauron was in fact an angel of smithing he knew metals better than almost anybody.
I mean, Sauron has destroyed holy swords (Like Isildur's) designed to kill Maiar like Sauron. Just like the Lich King, Sauron was beaten when he was caught lacking.
A thing that didn't get mentioned is Arthas was already someone weak to the temptations of gaining power by receiving gifts from others. Both Frostmourne and the Helm gave him power by sacrificing free will. Something that Sauron specializes in. He was wise and cunning and didn't mind spending 1000 years for plans to come together. Even without fighting, he would have Arthas and the Lich King dancing around in his hand like a puppet like he did with Saruman, and Something Arthas did as well.
Also, Asmongold mentions how the Ashbringer was forged from Naruu, but Illidain pretty easily destroyed one of the most powerful Naruu. Sauron would have no issues doing the same for that tier of weapon. Just because its from Space doesn't make it strong, especially in Warcraft Lore. Its probably more likely that Saronite is stronger than a blade made from Naruu, because its from the blood of Old Gods.
To be fair, Illidan had plot armor/power
Hey all, I want to share a few experiences I've had, I hope it helps someone here.
@@narsakucanada154 Amen, brother in Christ!
@@narsakucanada154 Grow up. No one cares. Fairy tales are not real and a immoral one like the one you belive in is evil.
This Illidan is OP compared to the one of warcraft 3 (especially since he had the guldan skull for a long time) + he's the jailer of Sargeras now so it's pretty impressive now
You can definately tell this is asmon's first death battle considering his reaction to the animation and the fact he really doesn't seem to understand the rules and looked absoutely confused at them explaining the calcs
Yeah he’s definitely letting his bias overcome the facts and calculations. I mean it’s not new that asmon is kinda stubborn
To be fair their rules are very inconsistent and don't work.
@@TheCrispyTwinkies Ha your talking like Death Battle isn't bias.
Yes definitely his first time watching. They have alot of good content hopefully he goes through and checks them out. However they do have bias and have been proven incorrect in their scaling by some well known powerscalers. That being said, they got this one right, and regardless of a few questionable outcomes in their very long series, they are entertaining and knowledgeable.
A very entertaining fight they have is Popeye the Sailor vs Saitama from OPM.
@@entropy7705 also, just the idea of power scaling Sauron. A fill-in for just the concept of evil and misery.
You don’t kill Sauron. You overcome him. (Well.. you try)
Im all for squeezing your favorite fiction for all it is worth, but these calc videos have always felt like a detour in the direction of missing the point.
If it was a pure melee fight Sauron would 100% lose (Sauron himself admits he's not good at fighting) & we see this in their battle Arthas was the stronger fighter when it came to weapon combat, for most of this battle Sauron used the element of surprise (e.g. his Werewolf transformation) & trickery to try to manipulate Arthas (with threats & visions). However Sauron is just more powerful being a (Fallen) Angel againt a Demi-God, the Angel is just nartually stronger (if Arthas had more years under his belt he could defeat Sauron, but it wasn't to be).
Or just apply lore accuracy and have Sauron keel over the moment Frostmourne hits (since the literally first and introduction power of frostmourne in WC3 is that it rends souls apart with its strikes and maiar ARE blazing souls given shape).
@@ANDELE3025 Yeah, it's not like Sauron specifically put his soul in the ring so that even when he was destroyed (physically AND spiritually), he would be able to come back. That's totally not one of the most important parts of the entire LOTR mythos.
Sauron himself admit he's not good at fighting? Wut?? I mean, I would agree with him, but he never said something like that, dude...
Didn't Sauron fight, like, multiple really amazing fighters at once and emerged victorious?
@@jozokrstanovic9040Nah he managed to kill them but was mortally wounded after the battle.
Ecthelion and Gothmog both drowned in the fountain. And why a elf took down a Maia, well he's a Noldor, Elves of Valinor, the lights of Valinor still with them. They're powerful elves because they used to dwell near the Two Trees.
Wow, I think I've learned so so much in that half an hour span of time. The Arthas backstory part reminded me of my good ol' days when I played through Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne back when I was in middle school. Having strict Asian parents that forbid me (and my siblings) from playing computer games whatsoever, I genuinely thought that Warcraft III that I played = World of Warcraft, and I could never figure out why the game was so overly popular with all the character classes I never saw, supposedly very expansive map that I never noticed, without the resource collection mechanic (lumber and gold) that nobody really knew about, but that was like one of my first ever pc game so I was having a blast + it was around those times when my friend introduced me to another game by same people, Diablo II, which I 300% got addicted to and literally destroyed my grades, so I remember my Windows 98 pc got confiscated by parents, but I got so upset at them that I straight up installed D2 on to the family-use PC in the living room so that I could play whenever parents weren't around LOL
Also, he sank the island BECAUSE Sauron convinced them into invading the elf lands, and they started off doing just that. They were told never to go there for being such a strong nation.
Sauron was a prisoner.... just by talking he went from prisoner to high priest, converting the entire island into a Morgoth based religion and becoming the be all end all authority to them..... JUST....BY....TALKING.
I love that Asmongold is so knowledgeable of LOTR lore. Was not expecting that.
there are tons of videos here on youtube explaining everything of LotR without the need to read the books.
Ecthelion wasn't "only" an elf. He was the one of the mightiest of the elves back in the days of yore, so long ago where Morgoth was still mighty and the elves had basically just arrived in Middle Earth. The Elves had hardly begun to lose their strength as it had been diminished so far during The War of the Ring. So Ecthelion vs. Gothmog was two titans (of spirit, not necessarily size on the part of Ecthelion) clashing against each other. So to use that to diminish Sauron's stature is not accurate imo
Another good point is how all the valar and maiar alike all had limitations placed on them in order to go to middle earth, I'm pretty sure they're all atleast 30% from their full strength while in middle earth, the valar probably even further limitations when they're not in valinor
That was only the wizards, so they would help guide humanity into solving its dark lord problem instead of just taking over and beating Sauron themselves. Every other time the auinur are at full strength
@@timsaylor4390 no it litterly says that every ainur got limited in power. If Melkor wasn't limited he would have destroyed Eä without a thought
The valar have never been nerfed, they were ordered to stay out of the elves and men business, totally different thing. As far as the wizards, they were the only ones that were nerfed because they were sent to be guides , and that’s it.
Sauron broke a sword once that contained a Silmaril, those are said to hold the “power of an unknown amount of stars” or something, that could be enough reasoning for Sauron being able to shatter Frostmourne
Since when has the sword a silmaril? It wasn't even elvish.
Not to mention he didn't break the sword, it broke under ellendil's body as he fell.
Edit: or are you talking about another sword?
In the lore we know, only pure light can destroy froustmourne
@@qgqsrg1 in the books it's said Narsil was forged from a cut piece silmaril from the crown of Morgoth, which contained however many stars
@@koreancowboy42 could you cite it?
because I can't find any source supporting that, none of the description from the book mention what it was made of, just that it was made by the dwarf Telchar who made a knife that cut a Silmaril from the crown of Morgoth and that it was shiny (far from being the only one); although it did say it was magical and could tear through armors, but still not unique trait for lotr weapons.
Furthermore the sword did break from just the falling body of Ellendil, so idk about its durability even if it was a beast at cutting.
@@koreancowboy42 the Silmarils couldn't be broken or shaped after they were forged. The only one who knew the secret of their composition was/is Feanor, and he'll never tell cause he's Feanor.
A weapon infused with something as significant as a Silmaril would be the subject of intense legend. We would have heard something about it. There's nothing in the texts, unfortunately, supporting anything otherwise.
Maybe I missed it but I thought Sauron could manipulate Arthas into causing an internal conflict for the Lich King. I'm going to have to watch this again.
The Lich King is resilient to mind manipulation
@@KiraNightV My coat is water resilient but it still gets water through if it is concentrated enough.
@@KiraNightV You mean resistant? Also, Sauron being a master of manipulation technically has nothing to do with mind manip.
@@KiraNightV Saurons manipulation doesnt need to be magic based. LK is an evil guy... Sauron cant understand good at all, but he knows bad....
@@JoshTheHoffman Tell that to the Old God's and they make Sauron look like a newborn baby in comparison.
The animation was crazy, imagine they started out creating this foggy scene that we also saw from the Bolvar vs. Sylvanas fight making the Lich King use the eye of horus, then sauron strikes back as "the eye". After that The Lich King calls out for Sindragosa to help him fight Saurons Nazgul in which she succeds at first but then gets overwhelmed by them. Would highlight the alleged edge Sauron has, even tho I understand animating all of this would be asking for too much.
Edit: Also after winning the fight Sauron should put on the Lich King armor to become God Tier Raid Boss
A little too much with getting the Nazgul and Sindragosa involved. This is a 1v1 fight supposedly
Seeing how big of a LOTR fan Asmon is, maybe he should give Lord of the Rings Online a shot. I started about 2 months ago and I'm really enjoying it. Getting to explore a massive and accurate version of Middle Earth, and visiting all of the landmarks that The Fellowship and Bilbo traveled to is what really makes it special IMO
It’s weird that people know about Sauron but casually forget he has shapeshifter abilities
Probably because it's mostly in the silmarillion, and he lost that power by the time that LotR happens.
Yeah post Numenor he can’t do thatany more.
Third age Sauron is trapped in his armored state
@@agachill5000 I’m talking about before he gets trapped and weakened him being a Maiar allowed him to shapeshift
Sauron could definitely destroy Frostmourne with the power of the ring - the ring is made of Saurons soul which in of itself is holy, since Sauron was created from the mind and essence of Eru(god). All Ainur have Holy Power, even Melkor, as they all represent an aspect of Eru and his power.
You cant really compare or scale the magic from these universes because they work so differently, but if you go by the Holy magic scaling an think he couldnt destroy it, he more than definetly could because his very being is Holy.
I'm a fan of both worlds but I agree with you. Sauron is just stronger in almost every way.
@@gerbo8018 his mace is the extention of himself though. Like he could theoretically just morph into a gain werewolf the size of a Balrog and fight like that. His mace as his armor literally appear as the one being which is Sauron. Maybe I am wrong though.
@@gerbo8018 yeah, the whole "holy" thing is confusing for me. Because I'm not sure if Ashbringer beats Frostmourne because it has some sort of "holy" property or purely strength that is considered "holy". I feel like it's second option. But maybe I'm wrong.
@@gerbo8018 oh, I see now, thanks.
@@vitaliyred622 Another point about Saurons mace: Even if it was not an extension of himself (which it probably is), we have to remember that Sauron is an *absolute* beast of a Blacksmith. And let's be honest, would a semi-godlike being, who's known for smithing, create a weapon that doesn't measure up to itself? I doubt it.
Wow it pleases my nerdy heart to hear Asmon is versed in both Warcraft lore AND Tolkien lore
Listening to asmon geek out about Lord of the Rings stuff at the start of the video was the highlight of the video for me. Just a dude who knows his lore and is passionate about it
25:47 True, but Sauron was wielding the One Ring, which has a similarly epic scaled origin and history. It's not clear how the Maia scale to the Naaru, but from a pure narrative standpoint they're comparable enough: essentially angels. I could buy the Ring would give Sauron the power to break Frostmourne.
Pretty sure they didn't take in to account Arthas' heart; we managed to beat him by significantly weakening him by destroying his heart.
But if his heart was still intact, he would be miles stronger.
Regardless, personally i think Sauron still wins, but way less onesided
@@linkek6088 I agree, it’d be way more of a spectacle but in the end, the Lich King has no reliable way of killing Sauron, or winning the battle.
Technically we didn’t beat him. Ashbringer dude did
@@t5hammer871 "Ashbringer guy" way to put respect on Tirion Fordring's name 😁
25:00 - Imagine if you're listening to Asmon explain Frostmourne and the Ashbringer if you're someone who has never played Warcraft 3 or WoW. The lore's insane lol
I'm one of those people. I am just nodding my head in agreement the whole time
Okay but like Asmon is fucking goated for that...
Cause he is right loool
My biggest problem with this fight is that they used Shadow of War and Rings of Power for scaling. Neither of those are canon, so in my opinion they shouldn't count for power.
You'd have to be cutting off every other comic *insert earth number* otherwise.
Unless its downright a contradiction to cannon and non official it still counts.
Shadow of mordor is still official so its fair game.
@@Sephiroso. During his time on Númenor, Sauron had disguised himself in a handsome mortal form, but its sinking destroyed his body and permanently robbed him of the ability to shape-shift. His spirit fled back to Mordor, where he built a new body and regained his strength.
I just copied and pasted this but this is what I think their mostly referencing.
Basically its something that's more possible than not if he has the ring, without it he can't really do anything as a spirit though is my guess of what your referencing.
@@Sephiroso. the animation is just for show theirs really no telling if the lich king could actually use the curse on sauron since his human form is never really considered "organic".
Like if his body is just a magical husk I could see it not working at all.
(Its just sort of a matter of perception)
I think army wise the lich king would win easily,it was even stated that the scariest thing about him was his undead army.
Undead Uruk-hai(not sure if I spelled that right? would be a fucken PROBLEM
I knew the lich king was inspired by Sauron but I never realized how similar they are. They are almost 1-1 the same
Wait until you read about Archaon the Everchosen of Warhammer, they weren't even subtle about it. A warrior-priest who fell to evil and wears the (I kid you not) Crown of Domination.
@@CatroiOz Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't they come out the same year as well? WFB 6th Edition: Hordes of Chaos and Warcraft III? 2002.
@@bilbobagend8155 Warcraft 3 in July and that WFB in June. Though for sure the warcraft stuff was written first as that was the major plot of the game itself
I thought he was inspired by the GoT lore ?
Darkshire was also related heavily if i remember
@@CatroiOz archaon predates arthas my guy
I think Zack is forgetting the fact that the “elvish magic” they are talking about with Nasil is literally the same magic that the elves used to cleanse the rings that they were given by Sauron to ensure they could still wear them after realizing that Sauron had power over them.
the elves weren't given rings by Sauron. Celebrimbor made The Three himself. THe rings given by, and made with impot from, Sauron were the Seven and the Nine.
Two pretty epic characters. It was cool, and I love Sauron's character. Lich King was the second one I had to see after Sauron, during my discoveries of dark lordes and such.
The whole manifestation of the "Eye of Sauron" is a Peter Jackson creation. In the books, the only "Eye of Sauron" is described as emblazoned on the banners of the orcish horde of Mordor. The whole big floaty eye thing just wasn't a thing in the books. Also, Isildur cut the ring off an already beaten Sauron, as Sauron fell at the same moment Elendil and Gil-galad. Isildur cut the finger and took the ring off an already beaten enemy, and in his exact words, "I take it as weregild for my father and brother".
Seems to me like these Death Battle folks took most of their Sauron lore from the movies, which is kinda dookie imo. Great animation though for sure.
That being said, if Sauron can be beaten at his peak by a handful of Elves and Humans, essentially crippling his power and removing his physical form...that makes me believe that if the Lich King can kill the physical body with his plague, the only way he can be beaten by Sauron's "spirit form" is if Sauron somehow convinces the LK that he is his servant and distracts him. Sauron only ever won a single battle in his 2000 years as Dark Lord. He was not an amazing warrior, but rather a cunning strategist. I just don't see Sauron being able to take on LK one on one, if we are to go with Tolkien lore.
@@rhyknowsden Whenever Sauron's physical form is destroyed, it takes a long time and a lot of power for him to reform. So in a purely martial contest I think the Lich King beats him most of the time, but if we're just looking at the animation as a fun show instead of a real result then that changes things. Sauron is far smarter and experienced, in a 'real' battle of two lords who battle with large armies things are different. That being said, I think the scourge are a far stronger army than what Sauron commands in the second and third ages. However Sauron is far superior to the Lich King in all other aspects.
You are correct that the eye was a just a context device to represent Sauron in the films, but non the less, Sauron was still able to exist and fight as a spirit without a specific form, as was described in the writings.
The Eye of Sauron WAS in the books, but it appeared only in the minds of people influenced by the Ring. It's a spiritual representation of Sauron, though it can't manifest physically like in the movies.
@@rhyknowsden Look at it as a symbolism of of their wits and armies going at eachother for thousands of years. Sauron "loses" in a physical fight as Arthas is more skilled in combat. Sauron abandon his body and retreats to recover. Arthas ether A) thinks hes won or B) has no knowledge of how to defeat Saurons spiritual form. Now over the next few years, or hundreds of even thousands, Sauron re groups and regains strength. Me while hes deployed his spies and his minions within Arthas' leadership, perhaps even convincing them to fight for Sauron instead of Arthas. Sauron wins the long game every single time. Now when you look at it from a pure spiritual body fight or magic on magic (Sauron did fight Gandalf this way canonically in the books) he still wins. Saurons mind and will is much stronger then that of Arthas.
But rather then showing a Death battle that takes place over thousands of years where its Sauron's armies and minions taking out the Lich King and the Scourge, they animated an epic fight of the eye representing Saurons Will, Mind, Magic and true Power, fighting Lich King and his Magic.
One thing I thought was funny that death-battle missed is that both Sauron and Arthus can summon and control undead.
Yeeeah should've had a quick undead minions bit
That wasn't a miss, it just wasn't a factor in this fight since it's just a 1v1. Though I thought they did mention that stuff.
They did mention it. It even happened in the battle. Watch the video.
@@soulcyclone360 I did, in the fight there was no major usage of the undead by either side, both basically smacked each other for awhile and then sauron shattered Frostmourne (something he probably couldn't actually pull off). Both are rulers (one is a lord the other a king) who not only fight mainly with their respective armies and their armies are a major part of their power. No one is afraid of arthus without the scourge and Sauron isn't a real threat without his army, so a comparison between their respective fighting forces (and how the would use them in a one on one fight) is relavint.
@@Daggy1111 so when Arthus impaled Sauron and said that he serves him now, implying that he was trying to take him over with the Scourge but ultimately failed, that just didn't count for you?
Considering the Valar imbued a large chunk of their power into the creation of the world, meaning Morgoth is only a shadow of his previous power. It's unknown to me if Mairon (Sauron) had something similar happen, but he was definitely weakened after his body was destroyed in Numenor.
That is not something the Valar did. All Valar maintained their original power level EXCEPT from Morgoth who kept losing power because he was evil.
Sauron poured his malice and power into the ring and that is probably about as close as it gets
"metal made from another planet"
Sounds like a convenient plot weapon than saying just how indestructible something is. The explanation for Ashwalker makes more sense than that.
ive read the Silmarillion and im so impressed by Zacks knowledge of Tolkiens lore! so good!
He's got a point about Narsil vs Ashbringer. Instead of comparing Elven Magic, the in-universe equivalent would be a blade infused with the soul of a Maia or maybe a Valar.
Even is Sauron cannot destroy planets with a finger, he is still the most iconic and interesting antagonist
Well he is probably the first so powefull and evill antagonist created in fantasy
@@avrace2708my dude read the classics, you’ll love them. Or Beowulf.
27:45 "moving the sun and moon" sounds impressive, until you remember that they aren't celestial bodies in Middle Earth. Definitely not when the feats would have happened. They'd have been more spiritual than physical, and their physical elements were pieces of a tree. A very large tree, but nowhere near the scale of a star.
Fun fact: In fantasy realms, Liches used items to store their souls and protect themselves from death. These items are known as phylacteries.
In dungeon and dragons based lore, at least
@@reginaldcampos5762and in wow
The math, outcome and comparisons are fine and I don't mind that the Lich King lost, but damn do I feel like they did him dirty in the fight. Lich King is built like a tank and is teleporting around like he's in an anime. He doesn't do that in fights, like, ever, not in HotS not in WoW, he only uses gates to make entrance and exits. Also why he floating? I don't remember him floating.
They take a lot of liberty with the abilities it seems. Never once seen eye of acherus being used like that.
@@rayvg7709 that too, but in my opinion less of an issue than the speed feats
@@dumbboyalex4396 Just remember that DB is never 100% correct on their feats. But its already obvious that if Sauron vs LK were to be in 1 v 1, it can go in either of their favor (do you honestly think LK will have a hard time fighting Gilgalad and Elendil?) As Sauron did.
ANd if we even THINK OF bringing their armies to the fight, then the Scourge fodders Saurons armies.
After fighting at Light Chapel the Lich King teleports to escape from Tirion after the Ashbringer was cleansed.
Like yeah LK has gates but in the Lights Chapel quest he legit just.. teleports.
When the Lich King showed up during the Argent tournament, he destroyed the ground below the champions while he was standing on it, but was still floating.
Oh also in the WoW chronicle volume 3, it says that Ner’Zhul had charged his necropolis with flight magics. It’s not out of the ordinary to see him be able to fly since has has the magic to and.. has, flown.
Hope this helps!
@@redenriot4577 Oh yeah, LOTR vs Lord Marrowgar/Lord Marrowsmongold
The elves never put on their rings while Sauron was wearing his, they saw right through him while he was parading as Annatar and didn't trust him. That's why they weren't corrupted like men.
I thought they found out he was the lord of gifts and stole the rings away before he could corrupt them. Pretty sure they did not really see right through him was just suspicious of him which led to him being found out.
I'm sorry I'm not trying to call you out or anything, but they most certainty did wear their rings as well as the dwarves.
@@Roar126 I'm pretty sure he was found out before he could corrupt the rings and they were stolen away early. Because the elfs use the rings and they would still be corrupted as long as the one ring exists.
@@deancampbell8206 when Sauron put on the one ring the Elf lords took off theirs, they didn't wear them again until after the war of the last alliance where the ring was cut from Sauron's finger.
@@deancampbell8206 they wore the rings after saurons hand was cut off. because their rings are made to be a force for good. it's the power of the one ring that corrupted them.
So based on this summary/ outline, it looks like Sauron is not actually gone gone.
In decades to come, someone could create more LotR story (sequels) and have some character use magic to recreate the dissolved/ melted ring from the volcano's lava and summon Sauron back. It wouldn't have to be the ring. It could be a different sort of artifact but it would have the essence
Well, if I remember correctly, in the silmarillion tolkien states that in the 'Dagor Dagorath' or the final battle, Morgoth, Sauron and all darkness will return to Arda and destroy mankind, so all Valar and Eldar will return from Valinor to fight evil again one last time according to the Ainulindale, or the song of creation.
Considering the One Ring is one of the most overpowered artifacts in fantasy, as soon as I saw Sauron wearing it, it was gg. 😅
I think the reliance on the Shadow of Mordor/War games and the narrow scope of the prologue from FotR does Sauron a disservice in constructing this battle. If you look at any of the books, Sauron isn't a martial character and doesn't move at warp speeds with mountain-cracking swings of his mace.
Two of the fights he was involved with were against Finrod Felegund, a battle of magical song, and against Luthien, which he lost. But he beat Felegund because when it came to singing, Felegund was one of the most skilled elves while Sauron had actually helped sing the world into being.
Granted, that's much harder to quantify, let alone animate.
To clarify, the smiths of Eregion and Gondolin in the first age were such masterful smiths that the metal they forged was impervious to the ravages of time. To put into perspective, when Thorins company finds the troll hoarde that had Orcrist and Glamdring, the swords themselves had been lost for about 10000 years. The elves of the first age were as close to gods as you could get aside from the Maia.
the miar and first age elves were not close to being gods, only the valar could be considered and theyre all lower case g gods
This is why Sauron is my all time number one favorite badass villain.
Arthas was right to purge the city, he wasn't right to go north and sell his soul and men for the sword. He should have marched west like the prophet said and help fight against the legion.
25:38 bro sauron literally helped to build the whole mf universe with other valars and maiars such as himself, so whatever planet the metal are coming from will not stop a maiar, a literall angel who worked with valars and learned their knowledge
This is absolutely one of my favorite Deathbattles, just on the power of the animation.
To think that a lvl 90 from Pandaria could one shot Sauron
every week until the Fellbeast mount drops
Ahhh yeah!! I hoped Asmon would watch this Death Battle. I hope he watches more of them.
Even myself being a huge LOTR fan, Id still say Lich King would win. Saurons greed and over confidence would be his downfall. I mean the dude never even had security at mount doom which was basically his heart.. lmao
Because it was literally impossible for anyone to willingly destroy the One Ring, as supported by the text and confirmed by Tolkien himself.
I guess in my mind I feel this could go either way. Just as they had Sauron destroy Frostmourne, the Lich King could have easily cut off Sauron's fingers, separating him from the One Ring, resulting in Sauron's defeat much like happens in the actual books. And just imagine if the Lich King got the One Ring and put it on -- I really think this is much more of a toss up than it appears, and the LK could also very likely win this.
sauron can fight as a spirit and dominate, however after he spent great lengths to pour massive amounts of his soul into the one ring due to believing he was invincible. The loss of the ring meant he lost most of his power
Being sauron I don't think he would fight the lich king at hand to hand but instead he would slowly dominate the lich kings minions until he dominates the lich king himself. Maybe he would sabotage, bribe, manipulate and trick the lich king into submitting himself to sauron. Hell he could just fool the lich king with some shiny new toy and next thing he knows his already a mindless wraith
As a fan of Deathbattle and Asmongold
I WANTED TO SEE AN ASMONGOLD REACT TO THIS SO MUCH!!
THANK people for sending this to him!!
The Lich King did not loose. He threw the fight to be free of the players constantly killing him for his mount.
Frostmourne can only be countered by a spirit blade, only two beings have ever been able to counter it. Felo'melorn was used by Kaelthas and nearly won, and as mentioned, the ashbringer was another spirit blade.
The jewel in The Ashbringer, from what I understand, was actually a shadow crystal that was found off of the undead. It was then empowered by light, and then put on a sword, thus creating ashbringer. Isn't that correct?
I'm actually impressed that Asmon read the Silmarillion.
I was wondering after seeing the original video if Asmon would watch it. Glad he did. I’ve been following deathbattle since 2013, and despite being biased with most fights (which is normal) the analysis normally convinces me why the fights conclude the way they do, and I learn a lot of new things too
Sauron isn't really meant to be that strong of a combatant. While he is the strongest Maiar this does not mean physically, Gothmog could certainly kick his ass. Sauron was strong because of his manipulation and cunning, he was the strongest in his ability to control and dominate.
The one ring didnt technically make you invisible, it took you to the world of the wraiths
Eonwe is the most powerful maiar and then Sauron right after.