I’m sorry, but you’re testing is very very flawed for starters you’re using an AMD 7900 XT with an Intel CPU and then you’re saying the frame rates are bad on the 12900KS try using that with a 4080, 4090, 3080, 3090 and watch those results go up and blow away the AMD’s to say that a 12900KS is on par with Zen three is laughable Zen three came out in 2020 the 12900 KS came out late 2022 and Zen 4 which is still using Zen 2 architecture how many years later? Also do we understand that some games are CPU dependent while others are GPU? Need to do better with the testing. Btw have had all three, 5800X, 5800X3D and 5950X. Only two good CPU’s out of that bunch was the 5800X locked at 4.8GHz all core and the 5950X which is a multi tasking speed demon. The X3D on the other hand is overhyped junk.
I have a 13900KF and its failing, I immediately went out and bought a 12900KS for $300 for this exact reason. The remaining stock of them is going to evaporate very soon I think.
@@discerningcucumber7559 the i7s have less problems than the i9s because they run less voltage. But I don't think its purely a voltage issue, I am pretty sure its a design flaw issue. They changed some stuff with the chip design between 12th and 13th gen. I am probably going to try to RMA my 13900KF and throw in the 12900KS since this PC is a work PC and I can't afford the RMA downtime. I installed their microcode fix and it just made the problems on my 13900KF worse lol.
Bf2042 does the most heavy and unnessesary benchmark but still manages to look like crap. I really hate that fucking garbage battlefield rippoff bitch ass minus 100EURO scam bullshit money ripping fucking old beloved playerbase newage cringe woke bitch ass bullshit game.
@@tvgerbil1984 The RMA is a pretty painless process. All these theatrics coming from people who don't even own the damn things. They sent me a new one fresh off the fab that has 0 issues. Sure if people don't want to RMA, they can scream for a microcode update, but as easy as the process was, just switch it out. Obviously the microcode update is to save existing CPUs from getting worse and avoid any kind of RMA process all together, but the RMAs they are sending out seem quite good and I put power limits in place to avoid a high end voltage curve that doesn't seem to give that much better performance anyway vs unlimited power limits. Testing under extreme circumstances, the voltage has stayed within proper levels (1.45v max under the most extreme conditions)
no one is speaking about specific cpu which caused this errors because i am using intel i9 13900k i have faced a lot of bsod before but not every day i have made temperature control limit on bios now it is not creating any issues , i agree what your telling but controlled over clocking issue but exteneded supported clocking limit will not cause any such issues , this issue is coming from few cpu not on all cpu's
@@FloppaAppreciationSociet-ds7zf13600K doesn't beat a 12900K, it's just a 12700K with 1MB less of L3 cache and less P-cores. You can find Alder Lake with AVX512, therefore my 12700K (that has AVX512) is just overall more well rounded than that i5.
@@FloppaAppreciationSociet-ds7zf It doesn't make a huge difference, at least for me in CS2 which is a game that doesn't like e-cores, the i7-12700K is smoother. A significant portion of that L2 for the 13600K are the e-cores. The 13600K is choked by it's weird core config, the loss of 2 P-cores, the loss of AVX512 and 1MB of L3. The 12700K is just overall more well rounded and easier to cool.
I should point out that the KS is basically identical to the K its just higher binned which means it has a higher minimum silicon quality. So the KS chips are going to run a bit cooler than the K versions and have potential to overclock higher but nothing is really guaranteed. They are really just for enthusiasts.
@@macrowave9427 The laptop i9-13980HX is so, SO much better than the desktop Raptor Lake i7 and i9 chips. Safe at 1.43 volts max, 15% faster in singlethread than my 12700K, 50% faster multithread at the same power limits. A friend has that pseudo threadripper chip on his Asus Strix 2023 laptop as an alternative to his Ryzen 9 5900X desktop. Then i watched the 3D Mark efficency perfomance per watt scores and is over 250 points, absolute insanity.
The 12900KS is the teacher of Icarus watching his student fly too close to the sun and watching the wax falling off his wings before falling into the ocean 💀.
There're 4 ways you can run this CPU: 1º Stock Default 2º Undervolted 3º Overclocked (AI, MCE with or without Unlimited Power) 4º Tuned (Manual OC) Of this 4 scenarios only Undervolted and Tuned should be considered if you're buying a 12900K/KS or even the i7's The best way to run this cpu's ironicly is: 1º If you're gaming, DISABLING ALL ECORES and pushing the P-Cores and Ring as high as possible to increase IPC while keeping the CPU under 85ºC and 1.4v if possible. 2º If you're working, keep E-Cores ON and try UNDERVOLTING. If you're not tech savvy i suggest getting a 12400 CPU or a Ryzen instead.
The 12th Gen i9 will still be alive the next years 🎉 Intels Coffee Lake was my last CPU by team blue... I went to AMD afterwards cause in Europe electricity is very expensive and I didn't want to cool 150-250 watts (I am a silence enthusiast with PC hardware) 🖥
Yep the 16-core Ryzen 9 7945HX3D laptop CPU falls just 10% shy of the desktop 7950X3D while only drawing 120 watts. Meanwhile the latest 12-core AMD Ryzen HX 370/375 APUs match the Core i7-12700K with an iGPU matching the GTX 1660 while only drawing 54 watts sustained and peaking at ~80W.
@@handlemoniumi9 - 13980HX Raptor Lake laptop is basically 50% faster than my i7-12700K at the same 100-150 watts power limit. It's basically a desktop i7-13700K in perfomance. By far the most impressive high end Intel laptop chip of all time for now. That Ryzen 9 that you mentioned is amazing as well. Desktop Intel and AMD are just a flop with the exception of the 7800X3D.
I'm so happy I recommended 7800x3d to all my friends who recently bought new PCs, couldnt live with the shame of pushing them to buy 13th/14th intel CPU. And I'm glad I have a 12600k myself. 😁
Bro literally same. My bro insisted he wanted an intel system for resell value. Had him get the 7800x3d how can u skip such a deal? Legendary processor.
@@KillerBsan_ It isn't legendary, it's an 8 core processor, basically a turbo charged console CPU. Productivity, or normal CPU tasks it doesn't impress at all, it's mainly a gaming CPU as target platform for game development is currently PS5, and even last generation used 8 core CPUs. Sure, for current gaming, and mainly just current gaming for a higher end console experience, the 7800x3d is the CPU to get. If you bought a PC just to have a better than console experience, you picked the best CPU for it. But lets not pretend CPUs are for nothing else except 1080p gaming which is where you are going to see gains from that CPU mostly. 4k high graphics, and you're definitely better off with an all around CPU and even AMDs other offerings, where you can install a repack through decompression within 15 minutes vs 40-60 minutes, or generally install anything much faster.
What's kinda funny is that Intel pushed Raptor Lake so hard that in fact not even their next gen Meteor Lake could match it and they essecially had to cancel desktop Meteor Lake because of it. Had the been more conservative with the voltages of 13th gen not only would we have less failures with them but also a probably completely safe Meteor Lake 14th gen would be out by now before the first 13th gen chips would fail.
@@lharsay i9-13980HX (same sillicon as a 13900K) laptop chip at 100 watts and 1.43volts max reaches 30000 points on Cinebench. i9-14900K at 350 watts at 1.6 volts reaches 40000. Pathetic. Desktop Raptor Lake is so, SO bad.
6 GHZ on a 14900K is garbage if it degrades the CPU without $1K or above cooling. Here’s a hint, Intel knew these default settings were unstable and let it happen anyway. No recalls from Intel. My 14900K blue screened and crashed constantly. Then it fried itself to death when I purposefully under locked and undervolted the 14900K. That’s why AMD Ryzen today is the intelligent choice.
I doubted myself when I bought 12900K bundle from Micro Center for $400 with 32GB 6000Mhz RAM and A Z790 board earlier this year even though 14th gen was already out. Now watching this video on the same computer and feeling good about myself.
How has that bundle been for you? I'm looking at the same one, I'm assuming. 12900k, Asus prime and 32 gb gskil for 399. I keep trying to find a reason not to buy it because it seems to good to be true? Had any issues.
@@MR1337SKI go for it it's a great deal and youre not missing out by not buying a 13/14th gen. the gains on the newer gens are marginal at best for gaming. you're only going to leave out slightly higher overclock capabilities and you wont have to stress about the constant crashing plaguing the newer chips
@mil-kw9zi i ended up getting that deal. One week now and I can't complain. It's been great and with a 4070 super, it eats anything I throw at it for 1080p
@@saricubra2867 12490f 6 cores at 4.6GHz, no crappy e-cores, 20MB of cache and can be BCLK overclocked on certain B660 and B760 motherboards. Early ones even had AVX512 unlocked !
Just bought a laptop with a 13900hx, got it and was very upset with the poor performance, then on top of that their was the current intel issues. I returned it and got a laptop with a ryzen 9 7845hx and have been extremely happy.
wierd, i have a laptop with i7 13620h and it runs fine. well, 15600 points in cinebench r23 while having firefox on the background. Maybe you had some power management issues on the laptop? Or something about heat? Even mine with a midrange chip can get hot just from the cpu.
@@GrumpyWolfTech A friend has a 13980HX laptop and it destroys my i7-12700K desktop chip in every single way. The perfomance per watt is ridiculous. 30000 points around 100 watts.
@@Alexandru1996_ He just wanted to talk about how happy he was to get an AMD in the first place and everyone else should too. It's what they do. Kind of like the "I have 14th gen Intel and am on my 4th RMA!", until you realize it just dropped Q4 2023 and these people are trying to convince everyone these CPUs fail every couple of months.
@osenoqxd_8369 "Hold the efficency advantage" *Jarrod's Tech* tested the i9 13980HX vs the Ryzen 9 7945HX and that *i9 has 66% better battery life* while watching videos. I know because i've been there with my friend, and the max voltage in one thread is 1.43. It's incredible how easy it is for people that spread missinformation for the narrative.
I underclocked my 13900HX from week 1. 4.3ghz max because 5.4ghz was pointless and it throttled to 90C and 100W anyway. Now I look at voltages specifically, they're 100-150mV lower, I'm pretty confident this chip will not degrade within the time period I use this laptop until something better comes along. I always wanted an R9 but the options were just sparse and certainly not for the price I got this for (
their new cpu's shouldn't have the same defects (for love of god intel pls). from my understanding its a micro code flaw causing elevated voltages. should be easy to fix on something new. something already released tho... doubt it can be fully patched. dunno wht cpu's they were talking about, may not be under the 15th gen name but they said they want to have some 1700 upgrade options
been running my 10900k for close to 4 years soon, had it since release, started out with a 2080super, then a 3080, now a 4070ti in 3440x1440p and it totally smashes everything still.
Until just recently, I've been happily running my 9700K overclocked to 4.8GHz in a computer I built a few(?) years ago. Replaced that CPU with a used 9900KS chip a couple of months ago. I might be a little bit behind the curve. Maybe I'll build a new rig using a 12900KF sometime soon. Been wanting to upgrade my 1070 GPU and DDR4 memory anyway.
I have 10900k yet u are all just brainwashed. 13/14 gen (in i9 they are the same) is so much faster than 12 gen its crazy u are just too dumb to set static voltage.
@@TrusteftTech Maybe, but just cause you have money doesn´t mean you lost the ability to appreciate money and just throw it out the window without a care in the world.
@@snakeplissken1754 Completely. In fact the one person I personally know who has money, is the biggest cheapskate I have met in my life. Still running a 2007 laptop even though he could easily buy a brand new system each month. Although he is lately considering upgrading to a super expensive N100 mini PC. *sigh*.
@@TrusteftTech I get where you're coming from. Usually consumers who buy these performance parts have money to burn but literally no use case for them most of the time. The sad part is those who really don't have the means and saved up to buy these for longevity only to get an issue.
@@Demopans5990 I forget exwctly what I paid, but I bought the 12700k and the Asus Prime z690-a mobo in Oct ‘22. Been rock solid stable since. I run it 24/7/365. Never once have I had an issue. Running stock frequencies (MCE on) with no power limit. Fantastic system. Couldn’t be happier with it. Thankfully I live in Seattle, so electricity is very cheap.
The funny thing also is that if we discard the 13th and 14th gen due to their problems, the best i9 for productivity can be the first Core i9. The first i9, the i9 7980XE (Skylake-X) was an 18 core CPU of the HEDT platform that had more PCIe lanes and Quad Channel memory, it was succeeded by the i9 9980XE and the i9 10980XE being all three literally the same CPU with higher stock frequencies (well the third release with the 10980XE they unlocked 4 more PCIe Lanes) and that 18 core CPU was at the same time a repurposed Xeon. I find ironic that you can have better Cinebench R23 scores with the first i9 (released on 2017) than the 12th gen KS, and is still more reliable than the 13th and 14th gen (although worse than all of those on gaming due to using a Mesh bus instead of a Ring bus, which is more common on Xeons to have even access times to all cores)
@@bozilla9975 My air cooled 12700K only draws 150 watts and at 67 degrees gets 22000 points. 12900K reaches 27000 while pulling 100 watts more and close to thermal throttling while using the best air cooler.
@@bozilla9975 The 13980HX laptop chip isn't that far away from that, around the 100 watts mark it's around 30000 points (my source is the Asus Strix 2023 model).
@@saricubra2867 no intel chip has been efficient in recent few years, it's the 14 nm++++ situation again. when it comes to performance per watt, even the 3950x is better than the 14900k.
I am happy with my i9 12900K, my friend told me not to purchase the new 13th gen saying it has not been out long enough to know if there are issues with it yet. My next computer build will only use parts that have "matured" as in they have been in use long enough for all the issues to have become known. I wont ever buy what is "brand new" ever an this whole last couple of years has done nothing but prove that.
Love your videos! Having owned both an i9 12900KS and 13900KS over the last 2 and 1 years respectively, both stable and tuned they have both served me well professionally and in gaming. Tuning the KS chips, forget core clocks, undervolt and cool accordingly, then target low latency which means DDR4 speeds over 4000M/T gear 1, and DDR5 over 7200M/T gear 2, and finish by upping the uncore/ringbus frequency as high as you can go without ringbus voltage increases. Overclocking both the ringbus/uncore and ram in combination has a compounding effect on CPU latency reduction impressively improving 1% low fps by around 20% for both my KS chips and 5 - 10% on average frame rates. Tuning Intel's for low latency really makes them sing for not much more thermal or power draw, AMD Ryzen architectures are unable to be tightly tuned for latency, so they put in a huge L3 cache to compensate. I'm not a fan boy of either AMD or Intel as I own both, however my user experience prefers a tightly tuned Intel over best tuned AMDs, just because the Intel platforms can yield a 20 - 30% memory access latency reduction over various workloads including games which are often latency sensitive.
Found an i9 12900KS for $265 on Offerup 2 years ago. Couldn’t believe my eyes. Bit the bullet and gave it a chance, negged it down to $240, and to my surprise it wasn’t a broken unit. Running it in my SFF PC at 55W/90W with a light undervolt, I was shocked at how easily it crushed my gaming and productivity. Fast forward to this year, and I was contemplating upgrading to the 14900K or 13900T. Glad I didn’t; this i9 aged like wine
The 12900KS was under $250 during Prime day. I was able to run 5.5 all core with Multicore enchantment on with the 4096w for a while and didn’t run into any problems.
Funny how everyone gave me crap for wanting a 12700K/12900K over the newer options like a 13600K/13700K/14700K. Even before the recent Intel shenanigans, I only ever buy what I "need" as far as computing power is concerned, so top of the line/current flagship parts typically get ruled out. I may still lean towards Alder Lake for the cheaper entry cost these days, but I'd honestly get more for my money (and have a longer established upgrade path) by going with AM5/getting a 7800x3D or 9000-series Ryzen 7. Either way my "OG-moderately priced gaming rig" equivalent R5 5600 (@ 4.8GHz all-core) has begun to struggle with certain things. And I'm not planning to drop from my 1440p/60 to 144 Hz target range for games lol, so sadly it'll have to be retired once I upgrade along with my GPU (since even my cracked out 3060ti OC'ed to it's literal limit as an air cooled card is also beginning to buckle under the weight of modern games)
Should I be worried? I own an i5-13600k(8/2023) Only for moderate usage. Nothing crazy usually hovers around25-40 cpu usage. Have yet to check my temps, but i highly doubt my cpu passing 40/50degree c
u can run 1.35 even, if u want good perf in gaming disable the ecores they are useless and heatup the pcores, also the cpus die becasue they peak at 1.5V that what kills them, 14++++ was ideal 14nm pretty much so improved that it would handle it yet the new intel tech isnt that fine finished like the 14+++++++. But they have to do that because people are dumb and need to see cool numbers
My 13900k is running amazing. Always have my bios up to date, no degradation at all. Use it heavily for vms but also a lot of gaming. I've also found disabling e-cores gives little to no performance boost and the temperatures are the exact same.
I can't imagine how owners who bought into the LGA1700 socket must feel, especially if the already owned an Alder Lake i9 variant but sold to "upgrade." To have the best flagship of a platform be the first one that performed on it due the architecture failing to mature, failing outright will cost Intel in the future if they don't do right by all the people who bought now failing i9s
13900k, 14700k, 14900k (they are all the same) are the fastest and will for like extra 2 years as new intel will be much slower for gaming. Just dont be dumb and set static voltage. If u run on auto all cpus will degrade just intels have bad curve and boost to 1.5v. Just set static and enjoy, i feel bad for amd users that bought 7xxx they have to buy x3d because they are so slow and they will have to upgrade to new ryzens as they are just slow. Yet as u can see 12gen still is good even tho he doesnt run on good ram
Literally just recently got a i5-12600k cause a friend recommended it, then not even a week later the problems about the 13th and 14th gen came out. Now I’m kind of stuck with no upgrade path. Don’t know what I’ll do in the future
there is no point as u wont see big fps upgrade wait few years, yet u dont have to worry about death of cpu jsut set manual voltage like human with 50+iq
@@slaydog5102 it's great for the most part. But I have a 7900xtx and in some games the 12700k bottlenecks. AC mirage for example can only pump out about 130 fps but my GPU is only at like 80% utilization. CPU stutters come in. Not a big deal though Im still very happy with it
@@erisium6988not everyone has the same priorities. Some people DO care about getting a few more frames and don't mind spending the money to upgrade within the same gen to a bigger cpu. There is nothing particularly wrong with that and these fps-chasers are typically who is doing a lot of the second-hand selling of their relatively new-but-used hardware to more money-conscious gamers.
Meanwhile teh 5800X3D (generation comparison for gaming) only draws 140watts max, but usually between 80-120 and with undervolt reaching 50-60. A half / quarter of the power draw of a undervolted 12900KS, while still providing best in class performance. Even though I personally still enjoyed Intel 11th gen, once ryzen 5000 series came around Intel CPUs died to me. This was further compounded by the addition of efficiency cores in 12th gen and newer which many games didn't properly utilize. I did initially build a 13600k system as followup (Wanted to use ddr5) and it wasn't too bad, upgraded to a 13700k shortly after and then the 14700k after that, but ran into the stability issues, had to RMA the CPU twice already, after that I just build a new system from scratch with a 7800X3D (my first actual AMD CPU build for personal use) and will never be going back. In hindsight I regret even trying intel 11/13/14th gen, I should've just build a 5800X3D system (with DDR4) and stuck with that till we're like seeing the 9800X3D cause the 5800X3D is still one of the top 5 performers in gaming, would've saved me buying an expensive AM5 mobo and DDR 5 memory, but at the time that felt like sidegrading.
And that's 60 watts power draw under load on a 5800X3D stable with a 1.0275v undervolt and 4.4GHz overclock with PBO. For the gaming performance you get, its one of the most power efficient chips. There's basically no downside at all to running it about -320mv from the 1.35v safe maximum. Also mind this makes it perform better than you see in most benchmarks, since those are ran with stock settings.
I was considering switching to Intel's 13th gen at some point before the the the recent Intel news but rocking a B450 since 2019 turned out to be a very good investment, I think I'm one BIOS update away from using Ryzen's 5000 series CPUs including the 5800x3D provided that I invest in a better cooler alongside it
Had a b550 tomahawk for the pcie4.0 with a ryzen 5 3600, upgrading to the 5800x3d with a bigger air cooler really worked fine. Sure its enthusiast "budget" level, but Intels powerdraw never made me consider switching, and the system is rock solid for years to come with minimal upgrade cost.
Great video! I run my 12900K with HT off actually simply because there are so many cores already and my usual workloads usually don't need a lot of threads, and secondly HT just makes the CPU run so much hotter for little benefit. Some opt to do P core+HT only to get higher cache freq. Would be awesome if you can try out these configs in the future too
the best part about this newfound problem is that lga1700 peaks at the 13600k or the 12900k, chips which were released almost 2-3 years ago on an ongoing socket
Yeah, uh, while I agree that LGA1700 peaks at the 13600K for price to performance (the 13700K/14700K is a bit below it but still practical, I think, and the 13/14900K are for specific uses only), I'm pretty sure my 13600K has been suffering from the defects as well. Would certainly explain the random microstutters I get like, once daily.
@@TheAmazingCowpig "Would certainly explain the random microstutters I get like, once daily." 6P+8E. My 12700K is 8P+4E, i never experienced a single stutter.
buying 6 core is brain damage. Just buy 13900k/14700k so u have good cache disable ecores and u have best cpu for porpably 2-3 years as new intels will propably be bad.
I bought a 12900KS this past weekend on Amazon for $250 total, got it today and installed it, upgrading from my OC 12600K. Now I get the best ST performance off my system without having to OC it and thus so far no more crashes in Horizon Forbidden West. I was going to go i7-14700 (Non-K) but the BIOS firmware from MSI to make my Pro Z690-A board compatible with 14th gen CPUs don't work with my RAM OC... at all, so I went 12900KS instead.
My 13700K has been running 24/7 since Feb 2023. Easily hits 5.2Ghz 1.4V @ 180watts on air. (I lowered the power limits from the start to keep them reasonable). Firmware patch is expected soon, so it will probably will get discounted a fair bit.
I've had a 12900KF since back when it was new, I locked vcore at 1.25V and boost is 5.3GHz, never had a problem. A full Cinebench R23-run pushes 235W which is not much for these chips. At auto it was very toasty.
Love my i9 12900k got it in 2021 at launch and it eats games but mostly it eats my numerical optical simulations for breakfast, as much as i love AMD they still cant touch intel when AVX2 instructions come into play.
Typical Anime profile picture unable to set a voltage limit in bios and didn't have the common sense to notice their CPU was drawing 1.6v. You weren't doing anything interesting with it anyway, so win, win, right?
Just got a 12900k and I love it! Also have a 12600kf in a secondary build and a 4790k in my third backup rig- that's my old baby and I kinda miss it, but it's obsolete nowadays.
I bought a 12700F that was pretty cheap ($150) and pretty good, especially for the price I got. I have a CPU that will last me a while and it will work more than enough for games and emulators like the one for PS3.
Just built a B650 7500f combo...Ditched Intel since Skylake. AM4 was amazing I hope for similar longevity from AM5. I got fed up with needing a new mobo every intel CPU upgrade, Feel sorry for all the people that went 13th/14th gen.
My delidded water cooled 12900K is almost 3 years old and still going strong with P-corez OC at 5.4Ghz and E-cores OC at 4.2Ghz. This CPU has aged like fine wine.
It's like watching your fellow soldiers run into an ambush as you've warned them. You're the sole survivor. You have no way out except to fight your way home. Good luck, 12900KS, you're the survivor.
12700K, still going hard. I disabled e-cores since that raised the ring bus and boosted 1% lows by a margin. avg 70 watts in gaming workloads. rarely goes over 120w in production. And it dodged the curse of 13/14th gen
@@limpa756 dawg the cores are still better in 12th gen. All I need is 8 powerful cores. I got my 12700k for 160 USD. It was dirt cheap. Disabling the ecores reduced the temperatures and voltage needs and allowed me to overclock all my cores to 5.3ghz. Way better.
The KS is basically identical to the K, and the 12th Gen i9s and i7s are also basically identical. The i7 actually simply has less E cores, which means less power required, so clocks can actually get higher. So, anybody who bought an i7-12700K basically bought the best Intel CPU they possibly could have.
A few months ago, I was planning to build a new HTPC/light gaming machine, and was looking at a 14th gen i7. Then Amazon put the i7-12700KF on sale for really cheap, and I grabbed it. It's undervolted and overclocked, and runs like a scalded cat. It hits about 2/3 of the Cinebench R23 score of my main computer's overclocked Ryzen 9 5950X. Glad I got it, and not the 14th gen chip!
The i9-12900k I bought 2-3 years back is already degrading. Nothing but crashes! Caused by Intel and Mobo makers mess up with the TDP values. Maybe they are safe to buy now.
I Just bought the 12900KS a few months ago to skip the 13 and 14 gen for this issues , I have my 12900KS @ 5.3 all P-cores and 4.2 all E-cores 4.2Ring and so happy i couldn't get more on my 240mmAIO
You should have bought that Thermalight or Thermal Grizzly ILM replacement, it drops the temperatures by like 10 degrees. And maybe apply liquid metal of that PTM stuff. Oh, and obviously undervolt it.
@@acev3521 Oh believe me, after all that benchmark videos, and every single of that 13900 and 14900 hits above 300 watts, you'll need that car radiator and liquid metal, hell, you might even need to delid it
@@Chibibowa I'm so jealous. I was a 5950x user until I wanted to build 'the best cpu in the world'. I chose a 14900KS and deeply, deeply regret it. I get the same multi-core score as 7950X3D becuase of all the power limits and stability fixes.
Y'all can keep all your extra cores I think I'll I'll stick with my i9 9900k it's been doing me solid in gaming the only weakness I have now is my GPU the EVGA 3060 12gb waiting for the new Nvidia titan
I bought a 12700k after seeing it on sale for 150. I was gonna get a 13900k or a 14700k but now im glad to be behind 2 generations for stability. Hopefully in the future with the new chips will be more stable
I have been using i9-12900K with arctic 360 radiator. It's have been nice for my usage. Mostly VR gaming and some Unity hobby dev. Bad stuttering in VR means visit to toilet for throwing up.
i never thought i will do this... but i have the 14900k since launch and its falling apart with crashes and blue screen, and i need my pc for work so i can eat, that left me in buying the 12900k and go back 2 gens... incredible... but neccesary, i dont have any options because i work as a video and photos editor for clients and i cant stop working... what a time for Pc stuff.
Geez both my 5950x's did 30K (peak 30,109) R23 with PBO+CO on a DarkRockPro4 air cooler at 80c temps. They launched just after the *10900K* back in 2020, it seems insane to wait 12 months then buy a whole new DDR5 platform with watercooling to draw 100+watts more and get less performance. Even if they performed the same it still doesn't make sense for production where the cpu is sat at max TDP for hours on end, and for gaming my 5800x3D is within a few percent (worst case assuming a rtx4090 at 1080p) with 1/3 the power and still on the DRP4 not throttling in a 13.3L case.
@@saricubra2867 Naaah dude. We're talking about convenience and ease of setups. A 7800X3D is quite easy to tame. A dual tower air cooler is more than enough to cool it for daily uses.
I adore how this air cooler can manage a 12900KS but a freaking h150i, which is a 360mm aio, that I bought specifically to replace an overwhelmed air cooler, cannot tame my 13700k at STOCK settings, to get it within a reasonable temperature range I had to undervolt it even with the latest bios and microcode updates (well at least it seems to score only slightly slower than a 12900). Both corsair and msi told me this was "expected behavior" and that I was expecting too much from both the cooler and the CPU, the last two intel generations are absolute garbage and I am probably going AMD next time.
I don't know if i should be happy because i have a 12700KF and it isn't affected or sad because there's no upgrade path for me, technically the Bartlett Lake CPU's will release on LGA 1700 but i seriusly don't know if those CPU's will be good enough or will even work properly.
barlette will have 12 p cores which is already a massive stepup, I believe theyll increase L2 or L3 cache in accordance to the 4 p core increase and those e cores hogging the L3 cache will be gone. should be a sizable perf increase for gaming
I bought a 1st gen i7 rig when they first came out and that thing held up and kept me gaming for 10 years. 2 years ago I built a new machine with a 12700K shortly after they came out and couldn't be happier with it. It has all the power I need for gaming & productivity while not being as much of a prima-donna about cooling like the i9s (I get by just fine with a noctua cooler). I have nothing against AMD, they just happened to not have the best cpus for gaming when I have needed to build a machine and I ended up going Intel. My only (minor) regret was not going with DDR5, but at the time it was still super expensive compared to DDR4. I can always do a mobo/ram upgrade if I want that 10-15% perf boost that badly tho. Anyway, the 12th gen intels are still great cpus, especially if you can get them on sale. I snagged a 12600KF for $75 at microcenter a month ago for my GF to build her own gaming machine with and it's been great for her so far. Sad that the bad decisions intel made with the 13/14th gen cpus are getting projected backwards onto older gens unfairly.
@@erisium6988 Bad ? By bad you mean better than any under 200 dollars AIO and would last way longer ? Noctua is overpriced for sure but it's the best you can get.
@@MisterKrakensby bad it means it get dunked by literally Thermalright/Deepcool dual tower they pumping out en masses everyday for like $50 lol. And they won't dare to charge you extra $20 just for black coating.
I was about to order a 13th or 14th gen CPU, but was checking some CPU vids first, and didn't realize they had these issues - ordered the 12900KS instead.
Just bought one of these myself about two weeks ago got a really really good deal on it on Amazon. Also found an MSIMPG carbon motherboard for another good price Z790 This CPU specifically says not to run an air cooler you have to use a liquid cooler. It’s mandatory minimum size 280 mm to 360 mm. I have a 360 mine idles around 25C and when I’m gaming 50-50 5C so if you use the right cooler, they don’t run hot at all.
All I know, is that the i5-12600K/KF is the best CPU intel ever made. Cheap price for amazing performance and overclocking. I can easily OC my i5-12600K to 5.4 Ghz
I remember a time where Intel were the only choice at the low end, until Zen 1 came to change our lives. I happily ran a Pentium G3258 with a 750ti for Several years, until I switched "back" to team Red with Ryzen, unwisely plumping for the 2200G, thinking that the onboard graphics would handily beat the ageing Geforce. I was mistaken, and soon switched back again. It was after a year or two that I upgraded to what seemed to be the "Promised Land" of the Ryzen 5 3600, which I'm still using today. Either way, Damn shame about them 13th and 14th Lake i9s going Phut.
Just got a z790-F rog strix and decided to skip the 13-14th gen totally, got a pair of fast 6600mhz ddr5 cl34 and decided to pair it all with a 12900k, getting one brand new from store here for 370$ which is insanely good considering that a 13600k costs the same, and maybe a year ahead or something when they've "fixed" their issues with the 14900k ill just chugg one in the z790, if not ill just keep the 12900k, it'll do me more than good in 3440x1440p paired with a 4070ti considering that im jumping from a 10900k which i've had for close to 4 years soon, the 10900k has been such a great cpu and still today runs amazing with the 4070ti.
I have a 10850k and I think it's a great chip. Ten cores, can hold 5GHz on all of them all day and hits 70c maximum. The newer Intel chips for me are just too power hungry for what extra performance you get.
When Zen 5 releases there will be genuinely ZERO reasons to get Intel. It's already more expensive, slower, uses way more power and apart from very early 12th gen chips, it has no AVX-512
No there will be a reason to get Intel still. If we don't want AMD to become the next Intel keeping their competition alive is probably beneficial to everyone.
@@JathraDH what's wrong with that if performence will increase equally , considering all the history of intel i will rather wait for a new player to compete rather than intel itself
What facilitated the huge increase in temperatures between the "boxed cooler" and "tower cooler" preset may predominantly be the massively increased current limit. 288W+300-320A instead of 512A by far shouldn't run as hot while still providing a bit of a performance boost with the cooling setup used for testing.
When intel started saying it was OK to run your CPU at 95C, I knew it wouldn't end well. They pushed too hard with tuning for advertising reasons. Same old Megaherz Wars. Now, they will downgrade them just to keep them from destroying themselves. Everyone who bought an affected 13th or 14th gen CPU has been defrauded. When intel should be developing a new architecture, instead they are just using the same tired old mutated Pentium Pro. That crap about oxidation is just a red herring.
ERRATA:
11:47 Forgot to change the data! The results in C2077 with RT Ultra were:
241w: 98.7 Avg, 59.9 1%, 42.3 0.1%
4096w: 100.7 Avg, 61.2 1%, 42.7 0.1%
@IcebergTech does the Ryzen 7 5800X3D beat the Core i9 12900KS and if so can we say that the AM4 platform beats the best intel can offer? (gaming)
@@chills5100 Hardware Unboxed tested the 5800X3D recently and the i7-12700K and 12900K (both with DDR5) are pulling ahead of the 5800X3D.
I’m sorry, but you’re testing is very very flawed for starters you’re using an AMD 7900 XT with an Intel CPU and then you’re saying the frame rates are bad on the 12900KS try using that with a 4080, 4090, 3080, 3090 and watch those results go up and blow away the AMD’s to say that a 12900KS is on par with Zen three is laughable Zen three came out in 2020 the 12900 KS came out late 2022 and Zen 4 which is still using Zen 2 architecture how many years later?
Also do we understand that some games are CPU dependent while others are GPU?
Need to do better with the testing. Btw have had all three, 5800X, 5800X3D and 5950X. Only two good CPU’s out of that bunch was the 5800X locked at 4.8GHz all core and the 5950X which is a multi tasking speed demon. The X3D on the other hand is overhyped junk.
@@chills51005800X3D is a overhyped pile of junk don’t waste your time.
Ouch, barely 100FPS at 640x360
I have a 13900KF and its failing, I immediately went out and bought a 12900KS for $300 for this exact reason. The remaining stock of them is going to evaporate very soon I think.
good thinking
somehow my 14700k is running pretty good!
@@discerningcucumber7559 the i7s have less problems than the i9s because they run less voltage. But I don't think its purely a voltage issue, I am pretty sure its a design flaw issue. They changed some stuff with the chip design between 12th and 13th gen.
I am probably going to try to RMA my 13900KF and throw in the 12900KS since this PC is a work PC and I can't afford the RMA downtime. I installed their microcode fix and it just made the problems on my 13900KF worse lol.
Be happy you got an i7 and undevolt the shit out of it
@@discerningcucumber7559 it will get fucked soon better to stop using ur pc and wait for bios update
Thumbnail:
*The i9 12900KS watches his fallen comrades in the battlefield benchmarks*
His fallen comrades are still twitching on the floor, screaming for the microcode update that will never cure their horrible wounds.
Bf2042 does the most heavy and unnessesary benchmark but still manages to look like crap. I really hate that fucking garbage battlefield rippoff bitch ass minus 100EURO scam bullshit money ripping fucking old beloved playerbase newage cringe woke bitch ass bullshit game.
@@tvgerbil1984 The RMA is a pretty painless process. All these theatrics coming from people who don't even own the damn things. They sent me a new one fresh off the fab that has 0 issues. Sure if people don't want to RMA, they can scream for a microcode update, but as easy as the process was, just switch it out. Obviously the microcode update is to save existing CPUs from getting worse and avoid any kind of RMA process all together, but the RMAs they are sending out seem quite good and I put power limits in place to avoid a high end voltage curve that doesn't seem to give that much better performance anyway vs unlimited power limits. Testing under extreme circumstances, the voltage has stayed within proper levels (1.45v max under the most extreme conditions)
no one is speaking about specific cpu which caused this errors because i am using intel i9 13900k i have faced a lot of bsod before but not every day i have made temperature control limit on bios now it is not creating any issues , i agree what your telling but controlled over clocking issue but exteneded supported clocking limit will not cause any such issues , this issue is coming from few cpu not on all cpu's
CRAZY to think that people are calling out some guys for stil buying the 12th gen i9 in 2023-2024, how the tables have turn.
What's crazy is to call out anyone for buying anything. It's like folks are paid to fiercely defend intel or AMD
I mean it's worse than newer lower end parts
Sounds like unless you really need more cores and threads, getting the 13700K/14700K is the way to go.
@@FloppaAppreciationSociet-ds7zf13600K doesn't beat a 12900K, it's just a 12700K with 1MB less of L3 cache and less P-cores.
You can find Alder Lake with AVX512, therefore my 12700K (that has AVX512) is just overall more well rounded than that i5.
@@FloppaAppreciationSociet-ds7zf It doesn't make a huge difference, at least for me in CS2 which is a game that doesn't like e-cores, the i7-12700K is smoother.
A significant portion of that L2 for the 13600K are the e-cores. The 13600K is choked by it's weird core config, the loss of 2 P-cores, the loss of AVX512 and 1MB of L3.
The 12700K is just overall more well rounded and easier to cool.
Been running a 12900K since couple months after launch and has ran flawlessly for me
That 12900k is a beast and will run more than fine for 4-5 more years without a doubt.
My 10900k still runs insanely strong with a 4070ti.
I should point out that the KS is basically identical to the K its just higher binned which means it has a higher minimum silicon quality. So the KS chips are going to run a bit cooler than the K versions and have potential to overclock higher but nothing is really guaranteed. They are really just for enthusiasts.
ks = keep spending.
@@JathraDH Vainilla 13900K and 14900K also are for enthusiast, that explains why they are dying lmao.
@@saricubra2867 This is true. They are not really chips every day people should be running.
I've heard the normal locked i9-13900 and 14900 as well as the T variants of those CPUs are dying as well
@@macrowave9427 The laptop i9-13980HX is so, SO much better than the desktop Raptor Lake i7 and i9 chips.
Safe at 1.43 volts max, 15% faster in singlethread than my 12700K, 50% faster multithread at the same power limits.
A friend has that pseudo threadripper chip on his Asus Strix 2023 laptop as an alternative to his Ryzen 9 5900X desktop.
Then i watched the 3D Mark efficency perfomance per watt scores and is over 250 points, absolute insanity.
The 12900KS is the teacher of Icarus watching his student fly too close to the sun and watching the wax falling off his wings before falling into the ocean 💀.
Daedalus. He was Icarus's dad not teacher they were escaping prison
@@falcon_224 I slightly forgot lmao. I just mainly remember the rest of the story lol
@@cuteAvancer incl. the bull f*cking ? (not in a metaphorical sense)
@@falcon_224 💀
@@cuteAvancer nah I'm fr
That thumbnail is fantastic, good job!
Thanks ☺️
soixante-neuf mille subs? You need to throw a party Mr. Iceberg.
69,69 K now.
Double fête Monsieur Iceberg.
Paid $220 for a new in box 12900ks two weeks ago. Couldn't be happier
same... I paid $230
Absurd value
where at?
@@delanescott7872 ebay
Power bill boutta make those savings disappear
There're 4 ways you can run this CPU:
1º Stock Default
2º Undervolted
3º Overclocked (AI, MCE with or without Unlimited Power)
4º Tuned (Manual OC)
Of this 4 scenarios only Undervolted and Tuned should be considered if you're buying a 12900K/KS or even the i7's
The best way to run this cpu's ironicly is:
1º If you're gaming, DISABLING ALL ECORES and pushing the P-Cores and Ring as high as possible to increase IPC while keeping the CPU under 85ºC and 1.4v if possible.
2º If you're working, keep E-Cores ON and try UNDERVOLTING.
If you're not tech savvy i suggest getting a 12400 CPU or a Ryzen instead.
The 12th Gen i9 will still be alive the next years 🎉 Intels Coffee Lake was my last CPU by team blue... I went to AMD afterwards cause in Europe electricity is very expensive and I didn't want to cool 150-250 watts (I am a silence enthusiast with PC hardware) 🖥
nice
Yep the 16-core Ryzen 9 7945HX3D laptop CPU falls just 10% shy of the desktop 7950X3D while only drawing 120 watts.
Meanwhile the latest 12-core AMD Ryzen HX 370/375 APUs match the Core i7-12700K with an iGPU matching the GTX 1660 while only drawing 54 watts sustained and peaking at ~80W.
@@handlemoniumi9 - 13980HX Raptor Lake laptop is basically 50% faster than my i7-12700K at the same 100-150 watts power limit. It's basically a desktop i7-13700K in perfomance.
By far the most impressive high end Intel laptop chip of all time for now.
That Ryzen 9 that you mentioned is amazing as well. Desktop Intel and AMD are just a flop with the exception of the 7800X3D.
That 12900k is a beast and will run more than fine for 4-5 more years without a doubt.
My 10900k still runs insanely strong with a 4070ti.
I'm so happy I recommended 7800x3d to all my friends who recently bought new PCs, couldnt live with the shame of pushing them to buy 13th/14th intel CPU.
And I'm glad I have a 12600k myself. 😁
Bro literally same.
My bro insisted he wanted an intel system for resell value. Had him get the 7800x3d how can u skip such a deal?
Legendary processor.
@@KillerBsan_ It isn't legendary, it's an 8 core processor, basically a turbo charged console CPU. Productivity, or normal CPU tasks it doesn't impress at all, it's mainly a gaming CPU as target platform for game development is currently PS5, and even last generation used 8 core CPUs. Sure, for current gaming, and mainly just current gaming for a higher end console experience, the 7800x3d is the CPU to get. If you bought a PC just to have a better than console experience, you picked the best CPU for it. But lets not pretend CPUs are for nothing else except 1080p gaming which is where you are going to see gains from that CPU mostly. 4k high graphics, and you're definitely better off with an all around CPU and even AMDs other offerings, where you can install a repack through decompression within 15 minutes vs 40-60 minutes, or generally install anything much faster.
@@KillerBsan_ 12700K is the one that is legendary, i bought it 330 dollars new in 2022, not even the Ryzen 7 1700 or Ryzen 5 3600 have that value.
I will likely have to revert to my 12600K from my 13900KS if there seems to be any issues lol
My friend went from an i7-8700K GTX 1080 Ti to an i7-12700K RTX 3080 Ti. When the 5080 Ti comes out, he'll get the 9950X3D
What's kinda funny is that Intel pushed Raptor Lake so hard that in fact not even their next gen Meteor Lake could match it and they essecially had to cancel desktop Meteor Lake because of it. Had the been more conservative with the voltages of 13th gen not only would we have less failures with them but also a probably completely safe Meteor Lake 14th gen would be out by now before the first 13th gen chips would fail.
Its not only voltage tho
@@ajaakola2 Certainly, but the high voltage makes them fail much faster which is apparent by the much lower failure rates of the i5 13600K chips.
@@lharsay i9-13980HX (same sillicon as a 13900K) laptop chip at 100 watts and 1.43volts max reaches 30000 points on Cinebench.
i9-14900K at 350 watts at 1.6 volts reaches 40000.
Pathetic.
Desktop Raptor Lake is so, SO bad.
i think Meteor Lake IPC is also worse than Raptor Lake (which is still higher than Zen 4's).
6 GHZ on a 14900K is garbage if it degrades the CPU without $1K or above cooling. Here’s a hint, Intel knew these default settings were unstable and let it happen anyway. No recalls from Intel. My 14900K blue screened and crashed constantly. Then it fried itself to death when I purposefully under locked and undervolted the 14900K.
That’s why AMD Ryzen today is the intelligent choice.
I doubted myself when I bought 12900K bundle from Micro Center for $400 with 32GB 6000Mhz RAM and A Z790 board earlier this year even though 14th gen was already out. Now watching this video on the same computer and feeling good about myself.
How has that bundle been for you? I'm looking at the same one, I'm assuming. 12900k, Asus prime and 32 gb gskil for 399. I keep trying to find a reason not to buy it because it seems to good to be true? Had any issues.
@@MR1337SKI go for it it's a great deal and youre not missing out by not buying a 13/14th gen. the gains on the newer gens are marginal at best for gaming. you're only going to leave out slightly higher overclock capabilities and you wont have to stress about the constant crashing plaguing the newer chips
@mil-kw9zi i ended up getting that deal. One week now and I can't complain. It's been great and with a 4070 super, it eats anything I throw at it for 1080p
12th gen Intel was so good. I’ve been using a 12700k in a hackintosh for a couple years now and it’s been so solid
The 12700K is literally the best Alder Lake chip.
@@saricubra2867 12490f 6 cores at 4.6GHz, no crappy e-cores, 20MB of cache and can be BCLK overclocked on certain B660 and B760 motherboards. Early ones even had AVX512 unlocked !
but... can you install/reinstall nvidia drivers 20 times?
I love my 12700k
@@hpr895 Blame NVIDIA or Microsoft, the 12700K is a flawless CPU in general.
Just bought a laptop with a 13900hx, got it and was very upset with the poor performance, then on top of that their was the current intel issues. I returned it and got a laptop with a ryzen 9 7845hx and have been extremely happy.
wierd, i have a laptop with i7 13620h and it runs fine. well, 15600 points in cinebench r23 while having firefox on the background. Maybe you had some power management issues on the laptop? Or something about heat? Even mine with a midrange chip can get hot just from the cpu.
@@GrumpyWolfTech A friend has a 13980HX laptop and it destroys my i7-12700K desktop chip in every single way. The perfomance per watt is ridiculous. 30000 points around 100 watts.
@@Alexandru1996_ He just wanted to talk about how happy he was to get an AMD in the first place and everyone else should too. It's what they do. Kind of like the "I have 14th gen Intel and am on my 4th RMA!", until you realize it just dropped Q4 2023 and these people are trying to convince everyone these CPUs fail every couple of months.
@osenoqxd_8369 "Hold the efficency advantage"
*Jarrod's Tech* tested the i9 13980HX vs the Ryzen 9 7945HX and that *i9 has 66% better battery life* while watching videos.
I know because i've been there with my friend, and the max voltage in one thread is 1.43.
It's incredible how easy it is for people that spread missinformation for the narrative.
I underclocked my 13900HX from week 1. 4.3ghz max because 5.4ghz was pointless and it throttled to 90C and 100W anyway. Now I look at voltages specifically, they're 100-150mV lower, I'm pretty confident this chip will not degrade within the time period I use this laptop until something better comes along.
I always wanted an R9 but the options were just sparse and certainly not for the price I got this for (
Sad to think that Intel technically released an LGA platform that only had one generation because the other gens are broken.
they are still going to make some 15th gens on lga1700... at least they said they would 😟
@@ducpaii Arrow Lake? 1851
Bartlett Lake could come out to 1700 but it may have the same manufacturing defects. Same node and everything.
their new cpu's shouldn't have the same defects (for love of god intel pls). from my understanding its a micro code flaw causing elevated voltages. should be easy to fix on something new. something already released tho... doubt it can be fully patched. dunno wht cpu's they were talking about, may not be under the 15th gen name but they said they want to have some 1700 upgrade options
Still quite happy with my 12700KF that has been running 24/7 for over 2 years without an issue. No plans to upgrade anytime soon.
Same here do you have yours overclocked?
Yea I have a 12700k and I'm not planning on upgrading for maybe 2 or 3 more years
been running my 10900k for close to 4 years soon, had it since release, started out with a 2080super, then a 3080, now a 4070ti in 3440x1440p and it totally smashes everything still.
Until just recently, I've been happily running my 9700K overclocked to 4.8GHz in a computer I built a few(?) years ago. Replaced that CPU with a used 9900KS chip a couple of months ago. I might be a little bit behind the curve. Maybe I'll build a new rig using a 12900KF sometime soon. Been wanting to upgrade my 1070 GPU and DDR4 memory anyway.
Anyone who "upgraded" from a 12900ks to a 13th or 14th gen and sold his old one must feel rather... bad right now.
I have 10900k yet u are all just brainwashed. 13/14 gen (in i9 they are the same) is so much faster than 12 gen its crazy u are just too dumb to set static voltage.
I am sure anyone who can so easily upgrade from a 12900KS to a 13th or 14th equivalent, will wipe their tears in money and move on.
@@TrusteftTech Maybe, but just cause you have money doesn´t mean you lost the ability to appreciate money and just throw it out the window without a care in the world.
@@snakeplissken1754 Completely. In fact the one person I personally know who has money, is the biggest cheapskate I have met in my life. Still running a 2007 laptop even though he could easily buy a brand new system each month. Although he is lately considering upgrading to a super expensive N100 mini PC. *sigh*.
@@TrusteftTech I get where you're coming from. Usually consumers who buy these performance parts have money to burn but literally no use case for them most of the time. The sad part is those who really don't have the means and saved up to buy these for longevity only to get an issue.
I bought a 12700k a month before the 13th gen launch so Ive build my dreampc at the right time
Almost the same scenario for me
@@Fiwek23452 Buy highest compatible DDR5 speed as possible with it, DDR4 will bottleneck it so hard.
12700k from a Microcenter sale. Z690 board + cpu for ~$300
@@Demopans5990 I forget exwctly what I paid, but I bought the 12700k and the Asus Prime z690-a mobo in Oct ‘22. Been rock solid stable since. I run it 24/7/365. Never once have I had an issue. Running stock frequencies (MCE on) with no power limit. Fantastic system. Couldn’t be happier with it. Thankfully I live in Seattle, so electricity is very cheap.
@@Demopans5990 same here. but I thought i was going to upgrade to 14 gen in future 😭😭
The funny thing also is that if we discard the 13th and 14th gen due to their problems, the best i9 for productivity can be the first Core i9.
The first i9, the i9 7980XE (Skylake-X) was an 18 core CPU of the HEDT platform that had more PCIe lanes and Quad Channel memory, it was succeeded by the i9 9980XE and the i9 10980XE being all three literally the same CPU with higher stock frequencies (well the third release with the 10980XE they unlocked 4 more PCIe Lanes) and that 18 core CPU was at the same time a repurposed Xeon.
I find ironic that you can have better Cinebench R23 scores with the first i9 (released on 2017) than the 12th gen KS, and is still more reliable than the 13th and 14th gen (although worse than all of those on gaming due to using a Mesh bus instead of a Ring bus, which is more common on Xeons to have even access times to all cores)
The efficiency of those CPUs are abysmal. My 7950x sips power at 90W TDP (125W PPT) while getting CB23 of 35000.
The words "Intel" and "Efficient" go together like pineapples on pizza.
@@bozilla9975 My air cooled 12700K only draws 150 watts and at 67 degrees gets 22000 points.
12900K reaches 27000 while pulling 100 watts more and close to thermal throttling while using the best air cooler.
@@yasu_red There are efficient Intel chips. The 12900KS isn't definetly one of them.
@@bozilla9975 The 13980HX laptop chip isn't that far away from that, around the 100 watts mark it's around 30000 points (my source is the Asus Strix 2023 model).
@@saricubra2867 no intel chip has been efficient in recent few years, it's the 14 nm++++ situation again. when it comes to performance per watt, even the 3950x is better than the 14900k.
The last i9 and the last flagship CPU to not kill itself.
I am happy with my i9 12900K, my friend told me not to purchase the new 13th gen saying it has not been out long enough to know if there are issues with it yet. My next computer build will only use parts that have "matured" as in they have been in use long enough for all the issues to have become known. I wont ever buy what is "brand new" ever an this whole last couple of years has done nothing but prove that.
Love your videos!
Having owned both an i9 12900KS and 13900KS over the last 2 and 1 years respectively, both stable and tuned they have both served me well professionally and in gaming.
Tuning the KS chips, forget core clocks, undervolt and cool accordingly, then target low latency which means DDR4 speeds over 4000M/T gear 1, and DDR5 over 7200M/T gear 2, and finish by upping the uncore/ringbus frequency as high as you can go without ringbus voltage increases.
Overclocking both the ringbus/uncore and ram in combination has a compounding effect on CPU latency reduction impressively improving 1% low fps by around 20% for both my KS chips and 5 - 10% on average frame rates.
Tuning Intel's for low latency really makes them sing for not much more thermal or power draw, AMD Ryzen architectures are unable to be tightly tuned for latency, so they put in a huge L3 cache to compensate.
I'm not a fan boy of either AMD or Intel as I own both, however my user experience prefers a tightly tuned Intel over best tuned AMDs, just because the Intel platforms can yield a 20 - 30% memory access latency reduction over various workloads including games which are often latency sensitive.
This guy knows what's up. 💪
Found an i9 12900KS for $265 on Offerup 2 years ago. Couldn’t believe my eyes. Bit the bullet and gave it a chance, negged it down to $240, and to my surprise it wasn’t a broken unit. Running it in my SFF PC at 55W/90W with a light undervolt, I was shocked at how easily it crushed my gaming and productivity. Fast forward to this year, and I was contemplating upgrading to the 14900K or 13900T. Glad I didn’t; this i9 aged like wine
The 12900KS was under $250 during Prime day. I was able to run 5.5 all core with Multicore enchantment on with the 4096w for a while and didn’t run into any problems.
WHAT! videos recently are soooo good! Thanks!
I recently upgraded to the i9 12900ks from a i7 9700. This thing is a beast. $300 new so not bad in price
Funny how everyone gave me crap for wanting a 12700K/12900K over the newer options like a 13600K/13700K/14700K. Even before the recent Intel shenanigans, I only ever buy what I "need" as far as computing power is concerned, so top of the line/current flagship parts typically get ruled out. I may still lean towards Alder Lake for the cheaper entry cost these days, but I'd honestly get more for my money (and have a longer established upgrade path) by going with AM5/getting a 7800x3D or 9000-series Ryzen 7. Either way my "OG-moderately priced gaming rig" equivalent R5 5600 (@ 4.8GHz all-core) has begun to struggle with certain things. And I'm not planning to drop from my 1440p/60 to 144 Hz target range for games lol, so sadly it'll have to be retired once I upgrade along with my GPU (since even my cracked out 3060ti OC'ed to it's literal limit as an air cooled card is also beginning to buckle under the weight of modern games)
13700 is a rebranded 12900 pretty much though, same cores and speeds, the 13700 only being like 6% faster due it having more L2 cache.
Should I be worried? I own an i5-13600k(8/2023) Only for moderate usage. Nothing crazy usually hovers around25-40 cpu usage. Have yet to check my temps, but i highly doubt my cpu passing 40/50degree c
My 13900k is luckily running perfectly fine after 1.5 years @ 1.3V. Running it a bit lower right now as a precaution
u can run 1.35 even, if u want good perf in gaming disable the ecores they are useless and heatup the pcores, also the cpus die becasue they peak at 1.5V that what kills them, 14++++ was ideal 14nm pretty much so improved that it would handle it yet the new intel tech isnt that fine finished like the 14+++++++. But they have to do that because people are dumb and need to see cool numbers
My 13900k is running amazing. Always have my bios up to date, no degradation at all. Use it heavily for vms but also a lot of gaming. I've also found disabling e-cores gives little to no performance boost and the temperatures are the exact same.
How would you know there's no degradation? Do you have a litographic microscope at home with which to look at the die?
@@evenaicantfigurethisout 🤡 talking bout performance degradation bro
@@erisium6988pro Intel user
7800x3D/7950x3D/9800x3D/950x3D for the win.
Great video.
Watching this with a smile on my face. Bought one over a year ago when it dipped on sale for ~450 Cad. Man did it age like fine wine. Cheers
I can't imagine how owners who bought into the LGA1700 socket must feel, especially if the already owned an Alder Lake i9 variant but sold to "upgrade."
To have the best flagship of a platform be the first one that performed on it due the architecture failing to mature, failing outright will cost Intel in the future if they don't do right by all the people who bought now failing i9s
13900k, 14700k, 14900k (they are all the same) are the fastest and will for like extra 2 years as new intel will be much slower for gaming. Just dont be dumb and set static voltage. If u run on auto all cpus will degrade just intels have bad curve and boost to 1.5v. Just set static and enjoy, i feel bad for amd users that bought 7xxx they have to buy x3d because they are so slow and they will have to upgrade to new ryzens as they are just slow. Yet as u can see 12gen still is good even tho he doesnt run on good ram
Literally just recently got a i5-12600k cause a friend recommended it, then not even a week later the problems about the 13th and 14th gen came out. Now I’m kind of stuck with no upgrade path. Don’t know what I’ll do in the future
I have a 12700k and almost upgraded but im glad i didn't lol
there is no point as u wont see big fps upgrade wait few years, yet u dont have to worry about death of cpu jsut set manual voltage like human with 50+iq
Why would you even upgrade from that.
@@slaydog5102 it's great for the most part. But I have a 7900xtx and in some games the 12700k bottlenecks. AC mirage for example can only pump out about 130 fps but my GPU is only at like 80% utilization. CPU stutters come in. Not a big deal though Im still very happy with it
@@erisium6988not everyone has the same priorities. Some people DO care about getting a few more frames and don't mind spending the money to upgrade within the same gen to a bigger cpu. There is nothing particularly wrong with that and these fps-chasers are typically who is doing a lot of the second-hand selling of their relatively new-but-used hardware to more money-conscious gamers.
I did upgrade from a gen 9 im now downgrading to a 12900ks for 25% less power than a 14900k but 100% less stress
Meanwhile teh 5800X3D (generation comparison for gaming) only draws 140watts max, but usually between 80-120 and with undervolt reaching 50-60.
A half / quarter of the power draw of a undervolted 12900KS, while still providing best in class performance.
Even though I personally still enjoyed Intel 11th gen, once ryzen 5000 series came around Intel CPUs died to me.
This was further compounded by the addition of efficiency cores in 12th gen and newer which many games didn't properly utilize.
I did initially build a 13600k system as followup (Wanted to use ddr5) and it wasn't too bad, upgraded to a 13700k shortly after and then the 14700k after that, but ran into the stability issues, had to RMA the CPU twice already, after that I just build a new system from scratch with a 7800X3D (my first actual AMD CPU build for personal use) and will never be going back.
In hindsight I regret even trying intel 11/13/14th gen, I should've just build a 5800X3D system (with DDR4) and stuck with that till we're like seeing the 9800X3D cause the 5800X3D is still one of the top 5 performers in gaming, would've saved me buying an expensive AM5 mobo and DDR 5 memory, but at the time that felt like sidegrading.
And that's 60 watts power draw under load on a 5800X3D stable with a 1.0275v undervolt and 4.4GHz overclock with PBO. For the gaming performance you get, its one of the most power efficient chips. There's basically no downside at all to running it about -320mv from the 1.35v safe maximum. Also mind this makes it perform better than you see in most benchmarks, since those are ran with stock settings.
I was considering switching to Intel's 13th gen at some point before the the the recent Intel news but rocking a B450 since 2019 turned out to be a very good investment, I think I'm one BIOS update away from using Ryzen's 5000 series CPUs including the 5800x3D provided that I invest in a better cooler alongside it
You can use both Intel and AMD in the same motherboard?
@@TheBcoolGuyNo, you read the comment _very_ wrong.
buy the 5700x3d
@@yasu_red A B450 is an AMD mobo? okay. Still crazy that more than 1 gen works with a given board.
Had a b550 tomahawk for the pcie4.0 with a ryzen 5 3600, upgrading to the 5800x3d with a bigger air cooler really worked fine. Sure its enthusiast "budget" level, but Intels powerdraw never made me consider switching, and the system is rock solid for years to come with minimal upgrade cost.
Great video! I run my 12900K with HT off actually simply because there are so many cores already and my usual workloads usually don't need a lot of threads, and secondly HT just makes the CPU run so much hotter for little benefit. Some opt to do P core+HT only to get higher cache freq. Would be awesome if you can try out these configs in the future too
the best part about this newfound problem is that lga1700 peaks at the 13600k or the 12900k, chips which were released almost 2-3 years ago on an ongoing socket
All Raptor lake CPUs are affected, which means everything at or above a 13600K/14600K.
@@FloppaAppreciationSociet-ds7zfmy i9-13900h in my laptop is just a i9-12900h (6 p + 8 e) so im hoping mine staysw
Yeah, uh, while I agree that LGA1700 peaks at the 13600K for price to performance (the 13700K/14700K is a bit below it but still practical, I think, and the 13/14900K are for specific uses only), I'm pretty sure my 13600K has been suffering from the defects as well. Would certainly explain the random microstutters I get like, once daily.
@@TheAmazingCowpig "Would certainly explain the random microstutters I get like, once daily."
6P+8E.
My 12700K is 8P+4E, i never experienced a single stutter.
buying 6 core is brain damage. Just buy 13900k/14700k so u have good cache disable ecores and u have best cpu for porpably 2-3 years as new intels will propably be bad.
I bought a 12900KS this past weekend on Amazon for $250 total, got it today and installed it, upgrading from my OC 12600K.
Now I get the best ST performance off my system without having to OC it and thus so far no more crashes in Horizon Forbidden West.
I was going to go i7-14700 (Non-K) but the BIOS firmware from MSI to make my Pro Z690-A board compatible with 14th gen CPUs don't work with my RAM OC... at all, so I went 12900KS instead.
good choice, u still get 8 p cores with 33mb l3 cache and a good ram setup
My 13700K has been running 24/7 since Feb 2023. Easily hits 5.2Ghz 1.4V @ 180watts on air. (I lowered the power limits from the start to keep them reasonable). Firmware patch is expected soon, so it will probably will get discounted a fair bit.
Fantastic video and I absolutely love the title! Thanks for all the great content.
I've had a 12900KF since back when it was new, I locked vcore at 1.25V and boost is 5.3GHz, never had a problem. A full Cinebench R23-run pushes 235W which is not much for these chips. At auto it was very toasty.
been running a 12900k at -0.80mv with a 175w turbo limit runs faster than 241w lol, love the eff cores very useful
Love my i9 12900k got it in 2021 at launch and it eats games but mostly it eats my numerical optical simulations for breakfast, as much as i love AMD they still cant touch intel when AVX2 instructions come into play.
Switched from the 13900k back to a 12900K myself after constant blue screens and crashes
Typical Anime profile picture unable to set a voltage limit in bios and didn't have the common sense to notice their CPU was drawing 1.6v.
You weren't doing anything interesting with it anyway, so win, win, right?
Just got a 12900k and I love it! Also have a 12600kf in a secondary build and a 4790k in my third backup rig- that's my old baby and I kinda miss it, but it's obsolete nowadays.
Love your videos and dedication! Those are full of verbatim and merely easy to comprehend. Great job mate!
Got the KS version for $230 new on Amazon around prime day couple weeks ago beastly chip
I bought a 12700F that was pretty cheap ($150) and pretty good, especially for the price I got. I have a CPU that will last me a while and it will work more than enough for games and emulators like the one for PS3.
Proud owner of a FREE i9-12900k. Brilliant, but very spicy processor. Even with my 360mm Ryujin II cooling it.
Free???
Just built a B650 7500f combo...Ditched Intel since Skylake. AM4 was amazing I hope for similar longevity from AM5. I got fed up with needing a new mobo every intel CPU upgrade, Feel sorry for all the people that went 13th/14th gen.
I had a 13700K that degraded, jumped ship to a 7800X3D 2 months ago, couldn't be happier
Proud owner of a 12900k, and it’s been flawless since day one (2 years ago) , handles everything effortlessly. 360 AIO + bracket required tho :)
My delidded water cooled 12900K is almost 3 years old and still going strong with P-corez OC at 5.4Ghz and E-cores OC at 4.2Ghz. This CPU has aged like fine wine.
It's like watching your fellow soldiers run into an ambush as you've warned them. You're the sole survivor. You have no way out except to fight your way home. Good luck, 12900KS, you're the survivor.
Thanks for testing both air and water. Those coolers would be the ones i would consider
12700K, still going hard. I disabled e-cores since that raised the ring bus and boosted 1% lows by a margin. avg 70 watts in gaming workloads. rarely goes over 120w in production. And it dodged the curse of 13/14th gen
Sams I disable those trash ecores. My 12700k only needs the 8 powerful cores which is perfect for all games.
@@Tanzu15I don’t think you guys realise how silly that is. If you’re disabling e cores why not just go for an older cpu? Lol.
@@limpa756 dawg the cores are still better in 12th gen. All I need is 8 powerful cores. I got my 12700k for 160 USD. It was dirt cheap. Disabling the ecores reduced the temperatures and voltage needs and allowed me to overclock all my cores to 5.3ghz. Way better.
@@limpa75612th gen still has better IPC than previous gens though
@@limpa756Once I get my 12900ks that is also what I will do, we can do whatever we want. Did you purchase them for us ? no you did not.
The KS is basically identical to the K, and the 12th Gen i9s and i7s are also basically identical. The i7 actually simply has less E cores, which means less power required, so clocks can actually get higher. So, anybody who bought an i7-12700K basically bought the best Intel CPU they possibly could have.
A few months ago, I was planning to build a new HTPC/light gaming machine, and was looking at a 14th gen i7. Then Amazon put the i7-12700KF on sale for really cheap, and I grabbed it. It's undervolted and overclocked, and runs like a scalded cat. It hits about 2/3 of the Cinebench R23 score of my main computer's overclocked Ryzen 9 5950X. Glad I got it, and not the 14th gen chip!
I have 3 13900K/KS and 2 i7's 13th Gen and no problems for almost 2 years. Just got a 12900KS new for $239. I already have a de lid kit so I'm ready.
here is winter, nice heater
The i9-12900k I bought 2-3 years back is already degrading. Nothing but crashes! Caused by Intel and Mobo makers mess up with the TDP values. Maybe they are safe to buy now.
Are you sure it's degrading and it's not just poorly configured?
I Just bought the 12900KS a few months ago to skip the 13 and 14 gen for this issues , I have my 12900KS @ 5.3 all P-cores and 4.2 all E-cores 4.2Ring and so happy i couldn't get more on my 240mmAIO
You should have bought that Thermalight or Thermal Grizzly ILM replacement, it drops the temperatures by like 10 degrees. And maybe apply liquid metal of that PTM stuff. Oh, and obviously undervolt it.
after all that treatment, still have to undervolt, 13 and 14 is really something
tbf, liquid freezer 3 has its own ilm replacement, you cant install cooler without it.
@@nabilabdurahman9793 that’s exactly what I’ve done to my 13700k and I can confirm that it is indeed something.
@@nabilabdurahman9793 As an AMD user I legit thought he was trolling lol
@@acev3521 Oh believe me, after all that benchmark videos, and every single of that 13900 and 14900 hits above 300 watts, you'll need that car radiator and liquid metal, hell, you might even need to delid it
what a great day to be a ryzen user
Yup. Rocking on a 7950X3D and I only used Intel before. Last one was 10700K.
@@Chibibowa I'm so jealous. I was a 5950x user until I wanted to build 'the best cpu in the world'. I chose a 14900KS and deeply, deeply regret it. I get the same multi-core score as 7950X3D becuase of all the power limits and stability fixes.
Switching to amd on my next pc, and my laptop will most likely be the newer arm ones when I’m done with my next laptop.
@@octav7438 Why would you upgrade from the 5950X? Js asking 😔
using thread manager?@@Chibibowa
Y'all can keep all your extra cores I think I'll I'll stick with my i9 9900k it's been doing me solid in gaming the only weakness I have now is my GPU the EVGA 3060 12gb waiting for the new Nvidia titan
I remember the head guy at Intel coming out saying AMD is finished! After the 12900k came out! Didn’t age well!
AMD is making Intel literally a joke for years now.
I bought a 12700k after seeing it on sale for 150. I was gonna get a 13900k or a 14700k but now im glad to be behind 2 generations for stability. Hopefully in the future with the new chips will be more stable
I have been using i9-12900K with arctic 360 radiator. It's have been nice for my usage. Mostly VR gaming and some Unity hobby dev.
Bad stuttering in VR means visit to toilet for throwing up.
i never thought i will do this... but i have the 14900k since launch and its falling apart with crashes and blue screen, and i need my pc for work so i can eat, that left me in buying the 12900k and go back 2 gens... incredible... but neccesary, i dont have any options because i work as a video and photos editor for clients and i cant stop working... what a time for Pc stuff.
Geez both my 5950x's did 30K (peak 30,109) R23 with PBO+CO on a DarkRockPro4 air cooler at 80c temps.
They launched just after the *10900K* back in 2020, it seems insane to wait 12 months then buy a whole new DDR5 platform with watercooling to draw 100+watts more and get less performance.
Even if they performed the same it still doesn't make sense for production where the cpu is sat at max TDP for hours on end, and for gaming my 5800x3D is within a few percent (worst case assuming a rtx4090 at 1080p) with 1/3 the power and still on the DRP4 not throttling in a 13.3L case.
My 13900K sample has severe crashing issues. As this is a 1440P to 4K gaming setup, I simple replaced it with a 12700K for $170.
For optimal performance you need : Custom ILM , delided cpu , liquid metal and 420mm AIO
or you could buy a 7800x3d, and be done with it, lol
AIO? More like a custom loop with dual 420 rads lol
@@gabber_ The 12900K pulls 100 watts more than a 12700K for 6 thousand more Cinebench points and just 3% better fps.
@@50H3i1 For optimal perfomance on Alder Lake is an i7-12700K at stock.
@@saricubra2867
Naaah dude. We're talking about convenience and ease of setups. A 7800X3D is quite easy to tame. A dual tower air cooler is more than enough to cool it for daily uses.
0:00 yes, this lil dude runs to this day.
Still loving my 2 12700K builds my kids are using. I’m glad I chose 12th gen.
makes me love my 10900k even more :)
I adore how this air cooler can manage a 12900KS but a freaking h150i, which is a 360mm aio, that I bought specifically to replace an overwhelmed air cooler, cannot tame my 13700k at STOCK settings, to get it within a reasonable temperature range I had to undervolt it even with the latest bios and microcode updates (well at least it seems to score only slightly slower than a 12900).
Both corsair and msi told me this was "expected behavior" and that I was expecting too much from both the cooler and the CPU, the last two intel generations are absolute garbage and I am probably going AMD next time.
Keep up the great content, this video made me eventually subscribe ;)
I don't know if i should be happy because i have a 12700KF and it isn't affected or sad because there's no upgrade path for me, technically the Bartlett Lake CPU's will release on LGA 1700 but i seriusly don't know if those CPU's will be good enough or will even work properly.
barlette will have 12 p cores which is already a massive stepup, I believe theyll increase L2 or L3 cache in accordance to the 4 p core increase and those e cores hogging the L3 cache will be gone. should be a sizable perf increase for gaming
I bought a 1st gen i7 rig when they first came out and that thing held up and kept me gaming for 10 years. 2 years ago I built a new machine with a 12700K shortly after they came out and couldn't be happier with it. It has all the power I need for gaming & productivity while not being as much of a prima-donna about cooling like the i9s (I get by just fine with a noctua cooler). I have nothing against AMD, they just happened to not have the best cpus for gaming when I have needed to build a machine and I ended up going Intel.
My only (minor) regret was not going with DDR5, but at the time it was still super expensive compared to DDR4. I can always do a mobo/ram upgrade if I want that 10-15% perf boost that badly tho.
Anyway, the 12th gen intels are still great cpus, especially if you can get them on sale. I snagged a 12600KF for $75 at microcenter a month ago for my GF to build her own gaming machine with and it's been great for her so far. Sad that the bad decisions intel made with the 13/14th gen cpus are getting projected backwards onto older gens unfairly.
12600K is still the one that makes the most sense, love your vids!
Maybe do some steam deck benchmarks? A 256GB LCD can be had for like $350
"I wasn't gonna find it with an air cooler" Noctua laughing with his NH D15/D15S/D15 G2
bad
@@erisium6988 Bad ? By bad you mean better than any under 200 dollars AIO and would last way longer ?
Noctua is overpriced for sure but it's the best you can get.
@@erisium6988 very insightful
@@MisterKrakensby bad it means it get dunked by literally Thermalright/Deepcool dual tower they pumping out en masses everyday for like $50 lol. And they won't dare to charge you extra $20 just for black coating.
I was about to order a 13th or 14th gen CPU, but was checking some CPU vids first, and didn't realize they had these issues - ordered the 12900KS instead.
Just bought one of these myself about two weeks ago got a really really good deal on it on Amazon. Also found an MSIMPG carbon motherboard for another good price Z790
This CPU specifically says not to run an air cooler you have to use a liquid cooler. It’s mandatory minimum size 280 mm to 360 mm. I have a 360 mine idles around 25C and when I’m gaming 50-50 5C so if you use the right cooler, they don’t run hot at all.
So glad I bought two! One for me and the wife. Feels good man. almost bought a 13900k lmao
All I know, is that the i5-12600K/KF is the best CPU intel ever made. Cheap price for amazing performance and overclocking. I can easily OC my i5-12600K to 5.4 Ghz
Starfield loves Intel CPUs, hates Intel GPUs.
I remember a time where Intel were the only choice at the low end, until Zen 1 came to change our lives. I happily ran a Pentium G3258 with a 750ti for Several years, until I switched "back" to team Red with Ryzen, unwisely plumping for the 2200G, thinking that the onboard graphics would handily beat the ageing Geforce. I was mistaken, and soon switched back again. It was after a year or two that I upgraded to what seemed to be the "Promised Land" of the Ryzen 5 3600, which I'm still using today.
Either way, Damn shame about them 13th and 14th Lake i9s going Phut.
Literally got mine from the dump and still kicking, keep on throwing out those i9-13900kf's 😂
Just got a z790-F rog strix and decided to skip the 13-14th gen totally, got a pair of fast 6600mhz ddr5 cl34 and decided to pair it all with a 12900k, getting one brand new from store here for 370$ which is insanely good considering that a 13600k costs the same, and maybe a year ahead or something when they've "fixed" their issues with the 14900k ill just chugg one in the z790, if not ill just keep the 12900k, it'll do me more than good in 3440x1440p paired with a 4070ti considering that im jumping from a 10900k which i've had for close to 4 years soon, the 10900k has been such a great cpu and still today runs amazing with the 4070ti.
The 12000 said "KS" to its newer siblings.
I have a 10850k and I think it's a great chip. Ten cores, can hold 5GHz on all of them all day and hits 70c maximum.
The newer Intel chips for me are just too power hungry for what extra performance you get.
Great video, it seems the i9 12900KF will be the last intel CPU for a while due to how intel is responding to an issue they made.
1:14 was not expecting this bit of buyers nonremorse, shout out the i5-12400, best upgrade from an i7-2600
"I walk alone, the only road I've ever known'...
When Zen 5 releases there will be genuinely ZERO reasons to get Intel.
It's already more expensive, slower, uses way more power and apart from very early 12th gen chips, it has no AVX-512
No there will be a reason to get Intel still. If we don't want AMD to become the next Intel keeping their competition alive is probably beneficial to everyone.
Yes, and If only the motherboards were also priced reasonably it would be perfect
@@JathraDH that's not a good reason honestly
@@predator9909 Well I hope you enjoy your $1000 AMD CPUs in 5 years then.
@@JathraDH what's wrong with that if performence will increase equally , considering all the history of intel i will rather wait for a new player to compete rather than intel itself
What facilitated the huge increase in temperatures between the "boxed cooler" and "tower cooler" preset may predominantly be the massively increased current limit. 288W+300-320A instead of 512A by far shouldn't run as hot while still providing a bit of a performance boost with the cooling setup used for testing.
When intel started saying it was OK to run your CPU at 95C, I knew it wouldn't end well. They pushed too hard with tuning for advertising reasons. Same old Megaherz Wars. Now, they will downgrade them just to keep them from destroying themselves. Everyone who bought an affected 13th or 14th gen CPU has been defrauded. When intel should be developing a new architecture, instead they are just using the same tired old mutated Pentium Pro. That crap about oxidation is just a red herring.