Pro-Palestine Journalist Shocks Destiny w/ Best Israel Convo Ever ►th-cam.com/video/7p1D1IqYflw/w-d-xo.html Finkelstein LOSES IT In Our Debate On Lex Fridman's Podcast ►th-cam.com/video/gJRCUfyyoLs/w-d-xo.html
I have such disappointments towards Destiny at times.... What if I'm just tired of Israel having any say over our government and traitors taking foreign money to do foreign bidding? Also, Destiny, the literal holocaust museam/memorial's definition of that word, everything Israel is doing fits the definition. Why ignore this?
@Vicioussama When you and your friends run out into the street in Uyghur colors shouting "from the Yangtze to the Yellow Sea, the Uyghurs shall be free" is when the rest of us will believe your sincerity on the issue of genocide
@@Vicioussama Israel would be better off without the so called “foreign aid.” Had the US not blocked Israeli from manufacturing and selling their own military products (The Lavi fighter jet in the 1970s for example) Israel would be in a much better position today. The fact is our government (The US) did the right thing by looking out for own own interest. The Holocaust museum’s definition of genocide doesn’t include German civilians dying during WWII.
@@Maelthorn1337wait, hold on. I get pissed when I stain my white t from a pack of fitted Hanes that I complain about the price of, and I have a high income. How loaded are you? Lol
@@DetectiveStablerSVU HAH. I only have one suit jacket, not white, and a bunch of dress shirts. I just wear'em when I know I'm not going to be eating. Did Fiverr spokesperson videos for a little while and it was only a few minutes to throw the stuff on, even with tying a tie. So if I'm being really realistic, he probably got dressed up because he knew he'd be on stream.
I would only watch that if destiny makes an only fans where he shows him getting fucked in the ass by whoever comes in. Can you imagine a Dinner with Destiny with Finkelstein? God that sounds amazing
27:00 "It would have involved transfer of people off a property, not necessarily violence" unbelievably naive and stupid take from Destiny, Nate's laugh echoed through my soul
I have no clue how Destiny reconciles that with the definition of violence he has used before. Getting forcibly kicked out of your house by the authorities is not violence? Bruh.
He's already a kid with no touch on reality, but with skills for debate, he only likes to "win debates" like those are videogames and that's it, no real moral, no real political position, he loves Ben Saphiro.
right wing ladies who value relationships and good parenting skills, take note - this is the best litmus test you'll ever have for choosing a right-wing partner - the posters who have it in them to like an obviously decent person, vs the ones who react by getting mad, mean spirited, derisive and bullying
@@kevinescobar237 I mean they both interrupted a fuck ton lol/ Plus Destiny does the ADHD thing of "I have to get my point across now or it's fucking gone" and has to SCREAM over him. I know, I do it too lmao.
Michael Malice's alter ego has lept from the comic book nerd's part of his mind into the internet. Which interestingly enough, sounds like a fun 90s comic book series.
@@loverofbigdookies He definitely isn't from New Orleans. But the combo of that suit with that pseudo posh accent brought to my mind, some old money, mid 20th century journalist, that took a job at a publication in the south, so he could teach unlearnt, southern country bumpkins, like myself how we should think about the world. And maybe how to have a conversation without run on sentences.
Wow Nate Robinson was amazing! Thank you for exposing the indifference and sheer lack of empathy that Destiny exhibited towards the suffering of non-Western people. It is pretty obvious that hew views Palestinian lives as "ants" with less value than their Israeli counterparts. Destiny has a clear bias when it comes to valuation of human life that is Western vs Non-Western. His hypocritical takes when comparing Palestinian conflict with Ukrainian conflict is a clear example of this.
@@mastereppsreturns6586You mean that unhinged, old, fake scholar that kept calling Steven a moron, idiot, imbecile, interrupting him every time he tried to talk because he knew he couldn't counter or defend any of his unhinged garbage past or present? That guy?
literally, i was wondering the whole time is this just some bizarre hyper localized accent or is it a character, and either way i would like more of it
@@brittlebowl4130 strikes me as a guy who likes old talkies/the great gatsby a lot and likes to affect an old style of speech. I don't mind it though, its fun
Unfortunately, accords between countries CANNOT be left vague. Leaving terms and conditions vague for "future discussions", is the historical recipe for war. If anything is left for "future discussions", it must be left out of the paper, to avoid confusion. Like, who the hell writes. "Oh, and also maybe all/some/nobody will be able to return to their homeland, we will talk about it later" That's literally selling air. It only impedes negotiations, no one will accept that, what the hell
Destiny: “people support Palestine because they hate America” This might be one of the dumbest things I’ve heard destiny say, and that is really saying something. Finkelstein was right, you are painful to listen to.
Why is it dumb? Surely you're not just another hate watcher that has literally nothing to add to anything other than some Ad hominem then never replying again.
I only hate the nazis cause USA fought against them? No because of their actions and ideology’s lots of woke/palastians surrporters also support Ukraine even thro we fund them
@@nabicx what can I say, I enjoy listening to people I don’t agree with. Seeing his braindead fans slurp up his bs in the comments is added entertainment.
@@soul4109 sorry I didn’t see your comment before. FWIW, people support Palestine because there is a decades long occupation and blockade, and currently an ongoing genocide, all being supported by the US. The US just so happens to be on the wrong side of history a lot.
That is true. Arab Israelis are exempt of doing military service. Arabs are entitled to affermative action in civil service jobs and acceptance to university. I guess there is apartheid against the jewish people in their homeland.
@@alisaglem The Nation State Basic Law says that only Jewish people have national rights, so that seems pretty straightforward? The same law also enshrines West Bank settlement as a national value.
Your comment displays an incredible amount of ablism, just showing how prejudiced you are. Well done. Perhaps go after an intellectual position rather than pathetic ad hominem attacks.
Destiny man "YOU JUST SAID THE ONLY WAY IS TO GO BACK TO THE OLD BORDERS" when this dude has reiterated about 50 times that isn't his position fucksake
1:48:54 These hypotheticals nicely illustrate the different gradations of intent in legal practice: The first scenario, i.e. indiscriminately firing a gun into the room, constitutes "dolus eventualis" (the weakest form of intent, basically one step above gross negligence) while the second one, i.e. the shoot-to-kill scenario, implies "dolus directus" (direct intent to bring about the elements of the crime). So both of them do qualify as criminal intent, yet they indeed are different in a legally meaningful way.
The bottom line is that Israel wants to sustain the asymmetry in the conflict, its demography, millitairy strength, political power & economy by any means.
Destiny defending ‘Israel retaining its Jewish character’ and prioritising Jewish immigration over non Jewish immigration as well as flippantly stating that ‘Palestinians Muslims can convert to Judaism to immigrate to Israel’ Proves he supports ethno-nationalism when it comes to Israel. He supports preferential treatment of Jewish people over non Jewish people in the state of Israel. However if a Republican were to advocate for “the United States retaining its Christian character” or “the United States retaining its white character” he’d call them a racist and a bigot. He’s so disingenuous and disgusting.
What makes zionism never being a legitimate enterprise is their gaining of a state came at the expense of dispossessing and removing an already existing population. In a vacuum, of course the Jewish people having their own land and state is a good thing, Ideally every ethnic group deserves that, but especially the Jews considering the constant persecution they've suffered throughout history. As an indigenous American (Mohawk) I have immense respect for the fact that Jews have persevered so long retaining their language, culture, religion and community in the face of terrible circumstances. My people, and most other indigenous groups have not been nearly so successful languages and cultures going extinct constantly. So to me the Jews are inspirational. But at the same time I sympathize immensely with the Palestinians and all other groups of people who have suffered territorial dispossession, and I hope they soon see some justice
58:34 Love how Destiny says this as if it's absurd. "You're telling me the most powerful nation in the history of the world (both economically and militarily) that has extremely close ties with Israel can exert influence on it to change their behavior?! You're in dream land, bro." It's insane that Destiny can't see how much more leeway a US-backed Israel has in this entire conflict, and that Americans might just be a little bit mad that their government is helping another country get away with murder (upon murder upon murder upon murder upon murder...). I think, relatedly, he also fails to account for the way Evangelical Christians in the US are driving this whole thing.
It's just absolutely an unfair characterization by Destiny to act like because Israel stole land and applies laws evenly to all those in the stolen land in west bank that it can not be aparthied. Israel is wrongfully occupying land it doesn't own in west bank and applying different rules/laws to those under stolen land compared to the rest of the west bank. I don't know nor understand how UN and others can classify palestine as being totally occupied by Israel, I don't agree that is correct usage of an occupation, but under that structure it would indeed be apartheid. Wait so if a country strips citizenship of a group of people and then enacts some things for what would be apartheid then "technichally" per Destiny it wouldn't be aparthied as it's restricted to citizenship. That is nonsense and just means it wouldn't techinchally count.
@@fl4g Robinson already dismantled this argument by asking which country the West Bank is part of. It's not an immigration issue because everyone in the area is administered by the same government, but have different rights. That's apartheid.
@@fl4g have you googled Bantustan yet? If it's a country, then why do people keep talking about a 2 state solution? According to you it's already a state?
It's painfully obvious that Destiny doesn't really care about any of this, on a human level. Sure, he likes to reasearch, make arguments, win arguments , prove how clever he is...but he said it himself in this conversation, at the end of the day, he doesn't actually care that much. He is incredibly cold and dismissive about the suffering of this "war" , it's all just a mind-game he enjoys playing, that ultimately serves his ego.
@@leoyoman what exactly are you basing that on? You're assuming my feelings. Funny, the only evidence you have for that, is me commenting about the issue..which would point to the opposite of you're claim.
@@ehs7208 just because you don't care, doesn't mean other people don't. Surprisingly many people see dead and maimed children daily and actually do care
The most interesting part of the comments here is how few of Destiny's audience have even heard of Nathan, who is widely known on the American left. His magazine Current Affairs is probably the second most influential socialist publication, after Jacobin.
The apartheid thing is so frustrating, arguing apartheid that isn't about how you treat non-citizens is so wrong. Apartheid SOUTH AFRICA literally did exactly the same thing! The majority of the black population was turned into non-citizens specifically to maintain the apartheid system. For one to find an example of apartheid being de facto maintained through use of citizenship laws, the example is... apartheid! The first one!
So are all the Arab states apartheid states? Or are you going to state that if immigration rules shift the ethnic make up of say Saudi Arabia, they would let it happen? What about other ethnic majority states? China (unrealistic I realize)? Japan? When you start to blur the lines to score cheap points, words start to lose meaning.
the argument that israel is apartheid because of their immigration laws is squashed when you realize that existing arabs in israel can vote, run for office, become supreme court judges and so on... something that you can't do in most arab/muslim states @@orion00
So weird that the claim at 1:14:00 is that Palestinians are simply fighting to resist their dispossession, considering that the blockade of Gaza is a response from Israel due to rampant attacks by what Palestinian agitator happens to have power at the given time, and that Israel ceased occupying Gaza 20 years ago. If Palestinian authorities ceased attacking Israel, used international support to build infrastructure and opportunity for its citizens, then came back to the negotiating table to seek a lasting peace with Israel, after showing years of international cooperation, Israel would have no excuse to not agree to a "just outcome." Instead, they continue to fight because people like Robinson excuse the violence by selectively targeting Israel when it does something bad, obfuscating about Palestinian aggression, and painting a picture where Israel is perpetually in the wrong. For example, Gaza is bordered by Egypt, too. Why isn't Egypt also called an apartheid state for doing the very same thing Israel is doing?
I love Destiny, but “that land was purchased” is historically inaccurate. In 1947, Jewish Land Ownership was only 6.6% of the British Mandate, at which point the U.N partition gave them 55%
@@realGBx64that is irrelevant. Look, I’m a zionist who lives in Israel who agrees with much of what Destiny says, but the facts matter. To say “most of that land was purchased” is just wrong, and to make the best case for zionism, we should avoid factually incorrect statements.
@@coltcummings4110 sure, but bringing up 6.6% is also making people think 93.4% was owned by the arabs. The truth is, the deserts and swamps were not “owned” by anyone but are part of the “land” when it comes to a country.
I'm not persuaded "the land was purchased" is a good argument even if true. It reminds of how Jefferson had the idea to swindle the natives out of their land by ensnaring them in a debt trap, so they'd be forced to sell.
Destiny: “The right of return for Palestinians under a Palestinian state is untenable and a lunatic idea” Also Destiny: “The right of return for Jewish people in Israel is completely acceptable because any nation should be able to control their immigration policies” The double standards are clear but I guess when you’re more occupied with winning an argument than being logically consistent you’re bound to make mistakes like that.
What do you mean? If Palestinians accept a two state solution and want the Palestinians immigrants to return to the 1967 borders then it’s fine but when they want Palestinians immigrants to return to the land which called Israel now is completely unrealistic 😂
The right of return exactly means returning Palestinians into Israel proper, otherwise it wouldn't even be discussed as Palestine by default would get control over it's immigration policy upon getting an independent state. The only thing they wouldn't get is their own standing army for obvious reasons.
Self inflicted. As I wrote to another commenter. There has not been one Jew in Gaza in nearly 2 decades. It was left to self determination. Israel even supplied power, water etc.... The Arabs could have taken the hundreds of millions of dollars that come in from around the globe and made their lives better with infrastructure, economic development, land development and so on. They chose a different path. Thousands of rockets fired at civilians at a pretty much regular pace, development of terror tunnels and terrorists and the election of a deviant militant group. So the wall goes up. Again, security. How could Isreal not build that wall. The rockets continue and Isreal gets charged with creating an open air prison and your erroneous term, apartheid. What a joke. "There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us" - G. Meir. Truer words have never been spoken.
@@CotesDuQ "It was left to self determination" There's no self determination if their imports/exports are managed by another state, they cannot have a standing military, cannot form alliances/trade partners without Israel approval, do not control their own borders or airspace and don't even have their own airport. Everything following this incorrect point becomes nonsense if you recognize the reality of life in Gaza inflicted by Israel. Israel specifically blockades the tools they would need to do any of those things ffs. You mention the rockets from Hamas but Israel still kills more Palestinians yearly. The rockets kill next to nobody and Israel terrorizes the West Bank too where Hamas isn't even present. Your bias is insane.
@@Vizardog Yes, I am biased......mostly because I do not now, nor have I ever believed that the Arabs want peace with Israel. River to sea and all. When Hamas states in its very charter that its goal is to destroy Isreal, I believe them. And they have shown that they mean it. You can make all the excuses you want but until they get rational, reasonable leadership their misery will continue. And by the way, stating that the rockets don't really do much damage is beneath the otherwise reasonable points you are making.
@@CotesDuQ What an idiotic comment. Gaza is completely controlled by Israel. The shoreline is controlled by Israel, all borders. Every resource that enters Gaza is completely controlled by Israel, even on the Egyptian border. Egypt must get an ok from Israel to bring in any resources. No one in Gaza can leave unless with certain permissions from the Israeli government. It is literally a prison. The Israeli policy for food resources going in is to keep Palestinians to just above a starvation diet. 50 percent of Palestinians live under severe food instability, and that's prior to the current raid on Gaza. It is worse now and could possibly become a famine. 90 percent of the water is undrinkable and there are many diseases effecting Palestinians because of it. That's just part of it. If any of this is ok with you, you are a lunatic. You are then an apologist for State Terrorism, the highest crime in the world court.
how can destiny defend them telling ppl to relocate & they bomb where they relocated to.. that's just sick behaviour.. classes, honorless behaviour 1:53:32
Because, as he said and as is true everywhere in war ever, the notion is not that you will be invincible but that you will be safer. Hamas also gets the message and relocates it's assets to the safer zones. The fact that you don't understand how war works or are intentionally ignoring it holding Israel only to an impossible standard is the core problem that Destiny (and many "zios") are so perplexed about
@@ranharel7033 it's morally.. unjust.. idc about the weird justifications.. "at least the worn them first" .. just because "this is how war always goes" or "they actually gave more warnings than anyone in history" it just sounds like some p*ssy avoiding accountability shit.. they're just covering their ass cuz they know they're wrong.. don't piss on me & tell me it's raining
Black people in south africa was not considered citizens of south africa but of the bantustans. Destiny is really making the exact same argument that the whites in south africa did for their apartheid.
we know that Israel has never been in favor of a two-state solution. That's why Israel propped up and funded Hamas. They don't have to negotiate with the Palestinians if Hamas is in power, which is why Israel propped up Hamas to be in power.
@@ChilledfishStick From Haaretz: "“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” Netanyahu told his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy"
destiny has some pretty bad israli takes. his oppinion seems to be attack anyone that thinks what israel is doing is wrong and defend israel at literally all cost. like who's paying you bro.
Every time it their acquisition of land wasn't due to a war initiated by the other party. Seems if you want Israel to remain within their borders, other countries should probably stop attacking them. Of course, supporting such attacks does the opposite. How is this hard?
@@thisisone9529 What about illegal settlements in the West Bank? Those have been built continuously, not just after wars. Also what do you think of Netanyahu showing off his map of "Greater Israel?"
@@Ssalamanderr "illegal" is an interesting term, here, considering these aren't "laws" that have been broken, they're claims by parties with no power, since Israel hasn't signed over its sovereignty to the ICC. You might notice that these organizations seem to care so much about what Israel does, but not so much about what anyone else does, considering there are resolutions condemning Israel for doing the same thing that other countries do, even when Israel goes above and beyond what those other countries do to protect civilian life. Why do you think this double standard exists? In reality, Israel has made agreements and stayed within the bounds of them until it is shown that the other party has violated them. Why do you hold Israel to terms but not the other parties?
The point of clickbait is to make you click it. The fact that it's different means that it's more likely to get your attention. Kinda like how advertisements became about being whacky therefore an ad coming out that wasn't got your attention. If every title is clickbaity, then none of them are.
@@runelt99 I'm not sure if I buy that. The titles we're accustomed to are clickbaity precisely because those titles _do_ get people to click on them more. They are just the most extreme possible interpretation of the content of the video with some capitalization thrown in, typically. It could be the case that the clickbait titles are all succeeding, with that success being divided up between a million of them, and that titles like these fail to get any traction. It's not zero sum, as someone can always spend more of their 24hr day watching videos than they currently are if they want to.
@@mackhomie6 I'm not saying that these will take over the titles, just saying that such a subversive title on Destiny's who you would expect to have hostile debates, is very notable to any viewer that knows Destiny.
Destiny only started talking over the guest when it became clear that the guest kept interrupting him. I dare you go to back and compare how long Destiny lets the guest speak uninterrupted vs vice-versa. If destiny hadn't started talking over him, he would never have been able to talk for more than 20 seconds.
@siIverspawn For example, at around 44:33 in the discussion. The guest was accusing Destiny of not only going by the facts. But that Destiny was unfairly accusing the Palestinians aggression, and giving Isreal aggression as a pass. Destiny response was well, Isreal has a history of peace, and Palestinians dose nothing but launch rockets. Knowing full well if the logic is applied in the reverse direction, he could call him an antisemitic. Therefore: the logic for winning the debate is to announce loudly why the Palestinians deserved their suffrage during the last 70 years by the hands of their occupier. But if you were to extend the timeline to 1939 (Europe) or to 1860(Russia)... and about every previous century in different sections of Europe to about 1000A.D. Then, say maybe there is a pattern here. This would be taboo and antisemitic. Therefore, a free get outta jail card whenever the argument is turning against him
The more I subject myself to this entire debate the more clear it is that destiny is incredibly disingenuous in his framing. He does exactly the thing he accuses his opponents of doing which is exclusively focusing on the violence from the opposing side, in this case on Arab violence rather and completely downplaying the brutality and asymmetry of the Israeli military response, the criminal and brutal nature of their occupation and settlement of Palestinian land, the colonial and nationalist character of zionism, and the obvious racist nature of Israel's immigration policy as well as their treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank. You can see it in the weaselly words Destiny uses when he must concede the evil-doings of Israel. "well the IDF PROBABLY favors the settlers over the Palestinians." "Yeah occupation SUCKS. It's not FUN to be occupied." "Civilian death SUCKS! It SUCKS when that happens." "Sure Israel bombed the south where they told the Palestinians to evacuate but it's still SAFER than the north so." "The Palestinians DON"T KNOW what they want and NEVER want to actually broker peace." At every turn he just keeps downloading Israel's brutal occupation and wanton killing of civilians and destruction of civilian property. And then simultaneously where does he actually employ strong critical language? "Palestinians are CONSANTLY wanting to shoot rockets at Israel." "Palestinians despise the jews and would KILL jews in their territory given the chance." All these statements are incredibly deceptive. Palestinian rockets over the course of decades have killed about as many civilians as a single IDF operation does every single day. And as far as the reality of the racism on the ground. You can hypothesize all you want about what arabs would do to jews given the chance but the REALITY we are witnessing is Jews routinely settling on Arab land, stealing their homes, evicting them with total impunity and protection from the IDF. It is SO clear that Destiny is pushing one specific side of the narrative all the while pretending to be the only true fair arbiter of the conflict while everyone else is just blindly hating on Israel/America and supporting everything Palestinians do. There certianly is the latter happening too but Destiny's rhetoric is achieving the exact opposite. Straight up propaganda to justify and soften Israel's heinous crimes, nationalist racist settler regime, and illegal long-term occupation which is essentially an annexation while painting the Palestinians as essentially totally unserious unrealistic jew-hating barbarians incapable of negotiating peace.
@@viziontrex Exactly, he WASTED days if not weeks of his streaming time reading a ton of shit for quite literally no reason cause that stupid old man didn't engage at all.
This guy is clearly from England by his accent, but it sounds like he moved to the US when he was like 17. Because if you move when you are 20, you maintain your original accent, but if you move when you are 12, you lose it, but he sounds like he's got 60% of what I imagine his original accent was. Am I totally off here?
It really is, I'm shocked he actually has fans still. I used to like his stuff but it didn't take me long to realize he is literally just in it to debate for optics, he does not care about any of the topics he talks about. He was pro-palestine/anti-ethnically cleansing like 4 years ago, he knows he's wrong on this topic and yet he argued these points because he knows in the political sphere he can be inflammatory about it and will get lots of coverage for it
About halfway through Steven claims Nathan’s argument is doomer, whereas Nathan, while conceding the serious difficulties and obstacles involved in brokering a peace negotiation, retorts that actually, it is Steven who is being fatalistic. The truth is all policy paradigms shift over time-reforms inexorably take place-and in turn attitudes of people groups downstream from new governance arrangements change, too, sometimes gradually and others drastically. I share Nathan’s pragmatic optimism and believe that, in this instance, Steven was clearly projecting. We should be careful not to underestimate the extent to which reforms like enfranchisement, civil rights, and basic codified equality go toward transforming us/them enmity. Normalization is possible, to assume otherwise is fatalistic. Now, Steven went on to make valid points about disparate perceptions of responsibility and culpability, which, to be fair, do present further obstacles to a just settlement. That said, these points do not detract from Nathan’s pragmatic argument, which is that the US ought to make greater use of the levers at its disposal to broker negotiation.
Agree with Destiny: terms like "apartheid" "open-air prison" "genocide" become distractions. The argument becomes about the validity of using those words and their definitions, which can be argued endlessly, rather than clearly describing what is happening in an even-handed way.
As far as I can tell the political and media class does everything it can to avoid acknowledging those descriptions, as even acknowledging them would associate Israel with apartheid, genocide, and open-air prison conditions for Palestinians. The only people I see centering arguments around those terms are people like Destiny or groups like the ADL or Canary Mission that smear people as anti-Semites for accurately describing the conditions Israel imposes on Palestinians. You don’t hear Fox News or CNN debating whether Israel is an apartheid state, they just ignore the charge altogether
There’s literally no international debate about this. No disagreement between the human rights organizations. There’s no controversy anywhere except in the depraved expansionist apartheid dreams of genocidal Zionists who believe putting Palestinians in concentration camps is good, or at least okay.
Said Zionists and their allies are merely more repulsed by the label they inherit by their beliefs and policies than the repulsive beliefs and policies themselves. Hence, the inner conflict projected outward on the rest of human decency and the inherent resentment which springs forth from that burden 🤷🏻
I’ve watched over 100 hours of content on this subject and this is by far the best conversation I’ve heard. The fact they have no direct skin in the game makes it better. The only issue I have is as both secular intellectuals they don’t understand the religious aspect and are speaking purely from western ratjonal and logic which can only go so far.
If this is an incredibly good debate inspite of the unearned smugness and the oblivouseness to the obvious double standard, just shows how low the bar is for this subject.
Bonnell has huge political and personal motives here. A person with reasonable intent could not be this stubborn on the issue of Palestinian motives. He simply will not concede this point. He stated some weeks ago that he wanted to travel to Israel and hopes to interview Netanyahu. I’m starting to see the links in the chain now. He has personal reasons to conduct his conversations in the manner we’re seeing. There is no valid reason to be so unbending on this issue of Palestinian motives. Benny Morris doesn’t talk like this. Morris has been nuanced on this point.
Thankfully I find one commenter with some sense. Destiny’s lack of ability to understand the Palestinian motives for the violence which he knows so much about seems almost fake. He cannot even seem to really sympathize with their plight.
@@TheBlinky81did we watch the same video right here? Destiny went as far as to say as if it was 1947 right now and he saw Palestinians fighting for their territory he would say to go for it. He basically stated that Israel fucks up plenty , but already get held accountable for any wrong move , but it seems that the powers controlling Gaza infinite justification for violence and sympathy when they have to face repercussions for said violence. If you really are empathising with the plight of the Palestinian people and want to see a world in which they have complete autonomy, you also have to accept that with that autonomy comes accountability.
I honestly have no idea what Destiny genuinely thinks about this topic after all these months. Idk if HE does. I think he knows it’s just a heated subject and there’s an infinite supply of people he can yell at.
This conversation was so illuminating. I really like Destiny. But I have been so frustrated with how he has been covering this conflict. He's largely accurate on the historical matters (not 100%) but the way he's been discussing this conflict has been laughably unproductive. So Destiny has been hyper-fixating on assigning blame to the Palestinians because there's no shortage of condemnation for Israel? Does he not see the problem there? I'm glad Nathan was able to get some clarification on some key matters and hopefully Destiny is able to move forward and have a more productive conversation that helps to solve the problem instead of create new ones.
He is very far from being historically accurate and I feel he will change his mind when it is more financially profitable and drives more attention to his channel. For now, the pro Israel side has been more financially attractive.
“Israel has only acquired land in response to aggression” - continuously expanding West Bank settlements disprove this “Israel has made peace with Egypt and Jordan but not with Palestinians so therefore it must be Palestinians that are the problem”- Well in fact America played a huge role in brokering Egyptian and Jordanian peace initiatives. Also Israel wasn’t occupying the bulk of either of these countries. They never occupied Jordan and they only occupied a relatively unpopulated and unproductive Sinai peninsula. The bias in narratives from Destiny is extreme and this sort of rhetoric is the real impediment to a good faith peace process. The right of return has been seen as an important symbolic agreement for decades. The numbers touted by various Palestinian negotiators has been in the 100,000 - 300,000 range over several years. A withdrawal to 1967 borders has been consistently understood to include land swaps which have been part of every negotiation since camp David and not at all rejected by Palestinians negotiators. It’s such an obvious centrist position to accept the Arab peace initiative like 95% of countries do in the UN each year.
Israeli settlements make up less than 5% of WB land. And Oslo put no controls on growth. Arabs colonized 3 continents. And the US undermined peace w/Egypt. Sadat was ready for peace with Israel BEFORE 1973, but Kissinger told the Israelis the Arabs wanted war.
And Israel was open to the arab peace initiative, it's the Saudis who refused israeli negotiations. Again all pro-Arab talking points count on people being historically illiterate.
@Nahsorry the Saudis said NO to israel negotiations. Israel never rejected the saudi initiative. But arabs wouldn't negotiate. OP rewrites history and makes it seem this proposal was ignored by israel. Not true. And abraham accords debunk the Saudi peace initiative.
wait, you think the sinai is unproductive? israel the suez canal is the lifeblood of egypt, israel sitting on it could completely cripple egypt again, like it already did in the past. the sinai is in fact one of the most important stretches of land on this entire planet
One Advice for Destiny is to stick with "One point" in your Israel-Palestine debates till your opponent stops diverting. I've been noticing people deflecting from your points and diverting - because you actually bring some amazing points Dez. Make them answer one point and then move on to the next. Because you're pretty fast and people might think you're being desperate. Kindly slow down just to make the opponent look weaker - especially Idi0ts like Norman.
If you start doing that people just won't talk to you. This is a tactic that gets him to a larger audience and gives him a chance of influencing their audience.
any time the debate is going poorly for destiny he starts talking at 3x speed and spitting out as many random arguments he can think of. Like when he starts talking about the Ottoman Empire lmao.
Bad take. For this to be true, you have to assume that he intentionally speeds up his cadence for optics. I'll gladly wait for you to prove this. Don't take too long Norm.
Like the games he plays, Destiny believes IDF is playing a video game in Gaza, where points are won and lost based on non-combatants to combatants ratio killing. He does not believe palestinians are human.
Palestinians are humans and you kill humans in war, that's what you do. And yes, what you do is try to optimize for the ratio of non combatants to combatants killed within the constraints of having to win. Israel does this successfully despite the wishes of Ben Gvir and Yahya Sinwar.
I love how the pro-Palestinian position often boils down to "they don't mean what they say", or "they really want these other things that they don't talk about".
''And Islam isn't?'' OH BOY. We know what's at the root of Destinys position now... things get clearer and clearer. ''All the violence was instigated on the arab side'' 😂 ''Islam'' and ''Arabs'' the magic words.
You say Zionism was an explicitly colonial ethnosupremacist project and it's founders openly stated this? Well what about THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE HUH SMART GUY?
we dont know, neither side has credible numbers idf currently says they think they have killed 10-12k militants hamas says that around 30k palestinians were killed, without distinguishing militants from civillians, there is also a 6k militant deaths number but that comes from a hamas official that's in fucking qatar neither side provided any real proof, for obvious reasons
But it is wayyyy more acceptable to be racist to us Asians rather than white Europeans with their accents. Pls don’t lie 🫢😂 I was born here and faced every piece of racism the world has to offer ahaha 😢
Might have moved or could be put on a bit I've noticed a lot of autistic yanks like to put on some kind of southern English accent guess they think it makes them sound more intelligent if only they knew the truth lol.
Refuting that starvation is happening is crazy, Destiny. Thats what happens when an area is being bombed, supply chains are disrupted, aid is disrupted, crop harvesting is disrupted, you can’t plant anything, livestock dies off. Bro this is just a consequence of war, intended or not. This is how people have died for all of recorded human history, war brings famine, because people are unable to produce, process, and transport adequate food.
Destiny has gone full blown hasbara, it's quite disgusting. Eventhing the occupied Palestinians do or go through is suspect, while colonist, nuclear Israel gets the benefit of the doubt every single time.
Are you implying they are prophets? The land was taken through war, after ISRAEL was attacked. The only way your logic works is if you go down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories thinking that the decades that led up to this were all carefully orchestrated plans to gain the land. That’s so ridiculous and you lack any evidence, aside from people saying stuff, which NEWS FLASH, is not definitive proof.
@@joellecohen679 Israel has literally enshrined their illegal settlement policy in their Basic Law (similar to a constitution) and consider settlement (ie displacing Palestinians and taking their land) as a national value.
2:04:05 one of the farmers who was killed on october 7th, was interviewed a few months before, regarding the work next to Gaza. Among his herd were many calfs raised specifically for Gaza, for Kebabs. There was no dog food mentality. If I had to wager, prior to october 7th it wasn’t about not letting excess aid in, but about making sure enough aid is entering.
Israel had a policy of “putting Gaza on a diet.” They deliberately kept the amount of calories coming into Gaza at a subsistence level. Any amount of “normalized obesity” present can be explained by Hamas’ success at smuggling in contraband items from Egypt. You can hear tale after tale from Palestinian children in Gaza of their dreams of one day tasting ice cream. Israel’s siege and effective occupation of Gaza was cruel and unusual enough to provoke the October 7th massacre. A truly non-biased mind can perceive this quite easily.
Israel has literally monitored the amount of calories that entered Gaza, they called it "putting Palestinians on a diet." They were open about this, it's not a secret.
For anyone who's watching this wondering how this is a "good debate", it gets better at about the 1:00:00 to 1:15:00 mark. However, it's still not "incredibly good", just better than the usual - IMO the Marc Hill one was much better.
Pro-Palestine Journalist Shocks Destiny w/ Best Israel Convo Ever
►th-cam.com/video/7p1D1IqYflw/w-d-xo.html
Finkelstein LOSES IT In Our Debate On Lex Fridman's Podcast
►th-cam.com/video/gJRCUfyyoLs/w-d-xo.html
Americans fund like three genocides just by owning phones.
I have such disappointments towards Destiny at times....
What if I'm just tired of Israel having any say over our government and traitors taking foreign money to do foreign bidding?
Also, Destiny, the literal holocaust museam/memorial's definition of that word, everything Israel is doing fits the definition. Why ignore this?
@Vicioussama
When you and your friends run out into the street in Uyghur colors shouting "from the Yangtze to the Yellow Sea, the Uyghurs shall be free" is when the rest of us will believe your sincerity on the issue of genocide
@@Vicioussama
Israel would be better off without the so called “foreign aid.” Had the US not blocked Israeli from manufacturing and selling their own military products (The Lavi fighter jet in the 1970s for example) Israel would be in a much better position today. The fact is our government (The US) did the right thing by looking out for own own interest.
The Holocaust museum’s definition of genocide doesn’t include German civilians dying during WWII.
WHEN A STREAMER TRIES TO BE A WANNABE HISTORIAN. YOU GET A MIDGET.
This is the moment where Mr Bonell became Mr Borrelli
I thought it was Monelli?
Señor Spaghetti?
I’m not too big a fan of Mr. Boodrelli
He's a 35 year old man!
Don't cancel me but Mr. Borelli does sound cooler
It takes courage to wear super expensive white clothing without fear of stains, I wish I had that courage.
Well, that jacket might only cost like 40-50 dollars.
@@Maelthorn1337still
@@Maelthorn1337wait, hold on. I get pissed when I stain my white t from a pack of fitted Hanes that I complain about the price of, and I have a high income. How loaded are you? Lol
@@DetectiveStablerSVU HAH. I only have one suit jacket, not white, and a bunch of dress shirts. I just wear'em when I know I'm not going to be eating. Did Fiverr spokesperson videos for a little while and it was only a few minutes to throw the stuff on, even with tying a tie.
So if I'm being really realistic, he probably got dressed up because he knew he'd be on stream.
You think he is brave enough to eat Chipolte in tighty whites.
Autism vs adhd FIGHT
Assumptions fight!
Lol
Autism vs *stimulants
Pretty funny 😅
Autism wins.
"Date with Destiny" is a good name for a podcast.
My dinner with Destiny
“Moment with Morelli”
@@Amick2003Brunch With Borelli feat. Destinys Chef
I would only watch that if destiny makes an only fans where he shows him getting fucked in the ass by whoever comes in. Can you imagine a Dinner with Destiny with Finkelstein? God that sounds amazing
OR DEBATE WITH WEIRDO CREEP IN APARTMENT WITH LIL GIRLS WALKING AROUND
27:00 "It would have involved transfer of people off a property, not necessarily violence" unbelievably naive and stupid take from Destiny, Nate's laugh echoed through my soul
I have no clue how Destiny reconciles that with the definition of violence he has used before. Getting forcibly kicked out of your house by the authorities is not violence? Bruh.
And yet, the Hamas leadership wants to forcibly evacuate all Jews from their houses.
@@Mrraerae he is too dumb to realize he is being used as a useful idiot to the regime.
He's already a kid with no touch on reality, but with skills for debate, he only likes to "win debates" like those are videogames and that's it, no real moral, no real political position, he loves Ben Saphiro.
Bet this guy doesn't call ICE or CPS on his neighbors over their children making noise.
The power of roof knocking
Not sure you could say the same for _his_ neighbors though ;)
Ey Paulie! Good to see ya
He did fire the staff of his socialist magazine for attempting to unionize.
Israelis do roof knocking, Norm does door knocking to warn of impending destruction.
It’s unfortunate that he didn’t preface that he only deals in facts
He also completely forgot to call Fibonacci a fantastic moron
It’s the day after the Finkelstein debate dude; that jokes already old.
@@sweetcell8767im sorry to hear that but mr borellie is going to see this joke for the next couple of years most likely
Exactly. Now I have to treat everything he says as unfactual garbage.
Very….. slowly
This is Destiny's son Nathan Bonneli Robinson
Mr ravioli, never forget destiny is a mourelli name!
Did not know Napoleon Dynamite became a pimp
Check him out
Jesus the chat is horrific in this video. Seeing somebody actually capable of debating and still behaving like it's Alex Jones ranting and raving.
Dude was kinda annoying when he just kept talking and then interrupting. And saying "Yes" after every sentence little D would say.
no seriously.... was pissing me off
right wing ladies who value relationships and good parenting skills, take note - this is the best litmus test you'll ever have for choosing a right-wing partner - the posters who have it in them to like an obviously decent person, vs the ones who react by getting mad, mean spirited, derisive and bullying
@@kevinescobar237 I mean they both interrupted a fuck ton lol/ Plus Destiny does the ADHD thing of "I have to get my point across now or it's fucking gone" and has to SCREAM over him. I know, I do it too lmao.
@@kevinescobar237so? This was a good ass debate
This guy is wacky I like him already
Michael Malice's alter ego has lept from the comic book nerd's part of his mind into the internet. Which interestingly enough, sounds like a fun 90s comic book series.
Really? His weird voice he starts with drops when he actually debates and his entire persona felt like contrived intellect.
@@AjaxDGonzo yeah and it comes back when he gets zesty sometimes lol it reminds me of the joke voice I do when I'm trying to be fancy
@@AjaxDGonzo The curse of English-Americans 😂
He sounds like some D&D wizard or something
This guys personality was actually a lot of fun, good sport
Bit of goober, a good sport maybe just obnoxious reasoning.
My word! A man of culture, rather kind individual as well.
@lampad4549 for sure a goober
Bro, when I saw his tweets, I was NOT expecting this person when he started speaking LMAO
Too bad he supports terrorists huh
Robinson has Tucker Carlson physiognomy.
Tucker x Devin Nash x Alex Stein
Pleiadian features
Bro is literally the embodiment of wealthy New Orleans journalist man with that suit and mid 1900’s accent.
No one in New Orleans talks that way legitimately. This guy is spectruming hard
A transatlantic accent in a socialist is pretty funny, but he moved from England to America as a kid, so at least he has an excuse.
@@loverofbigdookies He definitely isn't from New Orleans. But the combo of that suit with that pseudo posh accent brought to my mind, some old money, mid 20th century journalist, that took a job at a publication in the south, so he could teach unlearnt, southern country bumpkins, like myself how we should think about the world. And maybe how to have a conversation without run on sentences.
Don’t know what that has to do with the debate i guess thats destny fans
@@Haytch-hw2hu who asked
Wow Nate Robinson was amazing! Thank you for exposing the indifference and sheer lack of empathy that Destiny exhibited towards the suffering of non-Western people. It is pretty obvious that hew views Palestinian lives as "ants" with less value than their Israeli counterparts. Destiny has a clear bias when it comes to valuation of human life that is Western vs Non-Western. His hypocritical takes when comparing Palestinian conflict with Ukrainian conflict is a clear example of this.
Israel isn’t part of the west
This convo was 100% better than the Norm debate
@@mastereppsreturns6586go away, Norm
@@mastereppsreturns6586you could’ve summarized that yapping in one sentence
@@mastereppsreturns6586 “I was annoyed by how hostile destiny started that debate compared to this one” then quoted him if no one believed you 🙂
@@mastereppsreturns6586You mean that unhinged, old, fake scholar that kept calling Steven a moron, idiot, imbecile, interrupting him every time he tried to talk because he knew he couldn't counter or defend any of his unhinged garbage past or present? That guy?
@@jebalitabb8228ur a weirdo
What a fun way to speak, and I genuinely mean this
literally, i was wondering the whole time is this just some bizarre hyper localized accent or is it a character, and either way i would like more of it
@@brittlebowl4130 strikes me as a guy who likes old talkies/the great gatsby a lot and likes to affect an old style of speech. I don't mind it though, its fun
It ground on nerves. Perhaps its because I watched Gilligan's Island as a child. (Thurston Howell III).
It's a mix of accents, he's essentially americanized brit.
Watched the video in the background and thought he was debating Austin Powers.
Unfortunately, accords between countries CANNOT be left vague.
Leaving terms and conditions vague for "future discussions", is the historical recipe for war. If anything is left for "future discussions", it must be left out of the paper, to avoid confusion.
Like, who the hell writes.
"Oh, and also maybe all/some/nobody will be able to return to their homeland, we will talk about it later"
That's literally selling air. It only impedes negotiations, no one will accept that, what the hell
Destiny: “people support Palestine because they hate America”
This might be one of the dumbest things I’ve heard destiny say, and that is really saying something. Finkelstein was right, you are painful to listen to.
@_Social.Liberalist thats a lot of inferring. I can tell from your name that youre also insufferable
Why is it dumb? Surely you're not just another hate watcher that has literally nothing to add to anything other than some Ad hominem then never replying again.
I only hate the nazis cause USA fought against them? No because of their actions and ideology’s lots of woke/palastians surrporters also support Ukraine even thro we fund them
@@nabicx what can I say, I enjoy listening to people I don’t agree with. Seeing his braindead fans slurp up his bs in the comments is added entertainment.
@@soul4109 sorry I didn’t see your comment before. FWIW, people support Palestine because there is a decades long occupation and blockade, and currently an ongoing genocide, all being supported by the US. The US just so happens to be on the wrong side of history a lot.
Even within Israel "proper" there are different laws for jews and Arabs. Destiny is wrong again
That is true. Arab Israelis are exempt of doing military service. Arabs are entitled to affermative action in civil service jobs and acceptance to university. I guess there is apartheid against the jewish people in their homeland.
Bcoz muslim want Sharia law
There literally isn't. Tell me you've never been to Israel or around Arab Israelis. JFC
@@alisaglem The Nation State Basic Law says that only Jewish people have national rights, so that seems pretty straightforward? The same law also enshrines West Bank settlement as a national value.
@@Ssalamanderrisn’t it that only Jews are allowed to move to the Westbank and own something there?
Such a breath of fresh air after the finklestein disaster. Good convo D man
Norm abused Mr BORNELLI.. it was sad. Even the Zionist on his side a was laughing at him at one point
Finklestein made destiny and his dgg'rs look like a bunch of degenerate bums out of their element. It was great.
Did you mean the Twinklestein debate?
Yeah destiny embarrassed himself
I don't this. We seen the new side of Finkelstein. @@omarsabir1210
Asperger's level, 1 million.
It’s literally the two types of asperger’s kids in one video lmao
First half of the convo I thought he was drunk.
Your comment displays an incredible amount of ablism, just showing how prejudiced you are. Well done. Perhaps go after an intellectual position rather than pathetic ad hominem attacks.
@@quintwolf7185 Agreed, but I'm really curious, what do you think about Finklestein?
@@EdiblePlutonium depends what the question is doesn't it?
Destiny man "YOU JUST SAID THE ONLY WAY IS TO GO BACK TO THE OLD BORDERS" when this dude has reiterated about 50 times that isn't his position fucksake
Destiny was to busy interrupting him to actually understand his position.
Why people keep listening to this guy is beyond me. He doesn’t know sht about the conflict. Only monetization.
@DanielOrtaM Don't just say this. You need to elaborate or it's meaningless. What, specifically, does he not know about? What is he wrong about?
Coming back to this, has Nate admitted he was wrong about people starving to death now that we know that never happened?
1:48:54 These hypotheticals nicely illustrate the different gradations of intent in legal practice: The first scenario, i.e. indiscriminately firing a gun into the room, constitutes "dolus eventualis" (the weakest form of intent, basically one step above gross negligence) while the second one, i.e. the shoot-to-kill scenario, implies "dolus directus" (direct intent to bring about the elements of the crime). So both of them do qualify as criminal intent, yet they indeed are different in a legally meaningful way.
I kind of want to side with this guy just because I like his whole outfit.
Look up his convo with Christopher Rufo, Robinson won on fashion and conveying his arguments
You should also side with him because he's 100% correct.
Or because he is actually right.
Well he is right it wouldn't be that hard to side with him
Lol what he's right about? Destiny wiped the floor with him 😂
The bottom line is that Israel wants to sustain the asymmetry in the conflict, its demography, millitairy strength, political power & economy by any means.
Destiny defending ‘Israel retaining its Jewish character’ and prioritising Jewish immigration over non Jewish immigration as well as flippantly stating that ‘Palestinians Muslims can convert to Judaism to immigrate to Israel’
Proves he supports ethno-nationalism when it comes to Israel.
He supports preferential treatment of Jewish people over non Jewish people in the state of Israel.
However if a Republican were to advocate for “the United States retaining its Christian character” or “the United States retaining its white character” he’d call them a racist and a bigot.
He’s so disingenuous and disgusting.
True
What makes zionism never being a legitimate enterprise is their gaining of a state came at the expense of dispossessing and removing an already existing population. In a vacuum, of course the Jewish people having their own land and state is a good thing, Ideally every ethnic group deserves that, but especially the Jews considering the constant persecution they've suffered throughout history.
As an indigenous American (Mohawk) I have immense respect for the fact that Jews have persevered so long retaining their language, culture, religion and community in the face of terrible circumstances. My people, and most other indigenous groups have not been nearly so successful languages and cultures going extinct constantly. So to me the Jews are inspirational. But at the same time I sympathize immensely with the Palestinians and all other groups of people who have suffered territorial dispossession, and I hope they soon see some justice
58:34 Love how Destiny says this as if it's absurd. "You're telling me the most powerful nation in the history of the world (both economically and militarily) that has extremely close ties with Israel can exert influence on it to change their behavior?! You're in dream land, bro."
It's insane that Destiny can't see how much more leeway a US-backed Israel has in this entire conflict, and that Americans might just be a little bit mad that their government is helping another country get away with murder (upon murder upon murder upon murder upon murder...). I think, relatedly, he also fails to account for the way Evangelical Christians in the US are driving this whole thing.
Even just the UN security council veto is a huge deal, not to mention the untold billions of dollars
Look at this Tim Burton ass character bruh lmao the Destiny Orbit gettin' wild
It's Wonka bruh, don't disrespect, bruh
This guy is actually a pretty successful journalist.
@@MrPbaydari Because he didn't allow his Oompa Loompas to organize.
This is how everyone is in Louisiana
It’s funny bc I’ve read Robinson’s work in college level history courses. Still haven’t watched a destiny debate in a class tho
Palestinians do not have "total autonomy." anywhere... Jesus Christ Destiny! You can't be this dense.
Neither do the Welsh but they don't blow up their neighbours in an eternal clash for land
@@lewis123417 dumbest comparison ever brah... you can't be this dense.
@@samtaybi6029 do explain how.....invaded annexed and colonised, the Welsh language was banned well into the victoriana era
Current Affairs is actually a damn good magazine. Robinson’s piece on Jordan Peterson-“The Intellectual We Deserve”- should be required reading.
I love watching Destiny get owned over and over
Owned?
It's just absolutely an unfair characterization by Destiny to act like because Israel stole land and applies laws evenly to all those in the stolen land in west bank that it can not be aparthied. Israel is wrongfully occupying land it doesn't own in west bank and applying different rules/laws to those under stolen land compared to the rest of the west bank. I don't know nor understand how UN and others can classify palestine as being totally occupied by Israel, I don't agree that is correct usage of an occupation, but under that structure it would indeed be apartheid.
Wait so if a country strips citizenship of a group of people and then enacts some things for what would be apartheid then "technichally" per Destiny it wouldn't be aparthied as it's restricted to citizenship. That is nonsense and just means it wouldn't techinchally count.
He's not saying that what Israel does is fine, just that it's not Apartheid, because the occupied territories aren't part of Israel.
@@fl4g Robinson already dismantled this argument by asking which country the West Bank is part of. It's not an immigration issue because everyone in the area is administered by the same government, but have different rights. That's apartheid.
@@fl4g So what country are they a part of? Try googling the word "Bantustan" sometime.
@@Ssalamanderr occupied Palestine? It's really not that complicated.
@@fl4g have you googled Bantustan yet?
If it's a country, then why do people keep talking about a 2 state solution? According to you it's already a state?
It's painfully obvious that Destiny doesn't really care about any of this, on a human level.
Sure, he likes to reasearch, make arguments, win arguments , prove how clever he is...but he said it himself in this conversation, at the end of the day, he doesn't actually care that much.
He is incredibly cold and dismissive about the suffering of this "war" , it's all just a mind-game he enjoys playing, that ultimately serves his ego.
90% of people outside of the region don't actually give a shit on either side
And Hamas doesn’t care about their citizens when they use all their resources to prolong the fight instead of protecting their people
i would say you are the same, he just does not feel the need to hide that
@@leoyoman what exactly are you basing that on? You're assuming my feelings. Funny, the only evidence you have for that, is me commenting about the issue..which would point to the opposite of you're claim.
@@ehs7208 just because you don't care, doesn't mean other people don't. Surprisingly many people see dead and maimed children daily and actually do care
The most interesting part of the comments here is how few of Destiny's audience have even heard of Nathan, who is widely known on the American left. His magazine Current Affairs is probably the second most influential socialist publication, after Jacobin.
The apartheid thing is so frustrating, arguing apartheid that isn't about how you treat non-citizens is so wrong. Apartheid SOUTH AFRICA literally did exactly the same thing! The majority of the black population was turned into non-citizens specifically to maintain the apartheid system. For one to find an example of apartheid being de facto maintained through use of citizenship laws, the example is... apartheid! The first one!
1:28:00 nathan j robinson is literally describing 1970s and 80s South Africa here
So are all the Arab states apartheid states? Or are you going to state that if immigration rules shift the ethnic make up of say Saudi Arabia, they would let it happen? What about other ethnic majority states? China (unrealistic I realize)? Japan?
When you start to blur the lines to score cheap points, words start to lose meaning.
china is an apartheid state@@orion00
japan used to be an apartheid state in its treatment of koreans although now it is not@@orion00
the argument that israel is apartheid because of their immigration laws is squashed when you realize that existing arabs in israel can vote, run for office, become supreme court judges and so on... something that you can't do in most arab/muslim states @@orion00
So weird that the claim at 1:14:00 is that Palestinians are simply fighting to resist their dispossession, considering that the blockade of Gaza is a response from Israel due to rampant attacks by what Palestinian agitator happens to have power at the given time, and that Israel ceased occupying Gaza 20 years ago. If Palestinian authorities ceased attacking Israel, used international support to build infrastructure and opportunity for its citizens, then came back to the negotiating table to seek a lasting peace with Israel, after showing years of international cooperation, Israel would have no excuse to not agree to a "just outcome." Instead, they continue to fight because people like Robinson excuse the violence by selectively targeting Israel when it does something bad, obfuscating about Palestinian aggression, and painting a picture where Israel is perpetually in the wrong. For example, Gaza is bordered by Egypt, too. Why isn't Egypt also called an apartheid state for doing the very same thing Israel is doing?
I love Destiny, but “that land was purchased” is historically inaccurate. In 1947, Jewish Land Ownership was only 6.6% of the British Mandate, at which point the U.N partition gave them 55%
What was the percentage of the land ownership Arab?
@@realGBx64that is irrelevant. Look, I’m a zionist who lives in Israel who agrees with much of what Destiny says, but the facts matter. To say “most of that land was purchased” is just wrong, and to make the best case for zionism, we should avoid factually incorrect statements.
@@coltcummings4110 sure, but bringing up 6.6% is also making people think 93.4% was owned by the arabs. The truth is, the deserts and swamps were not “owned” by anyone but are part of the “land” when it comes to a country.
I can’t remember all the numbers, but around 75% was public land “owned” by the ottomans and then the British.
I'm not persuaded "the land was purchased" is a good argument even if true. It reminds of how Jefferson had the idea to swindle the natives out of their land by ensnaring them in a debt trap, so they'd be forced to sell.
Destiny: “The right of return for Palestinians under a Palestinian state is untenable and a lunatic idea”
Also Destiny: “The right of return for Jewish people in Israel is completely acceptable because any nation should be able to control their immigration policies”
The double standards are clear but I guess when you’re more occupied with winning an argument than being logically consistent you’re bound to make mistakes like that.
The "right" of the Jewish people to return back to lands they were banished from, speaking biblically lmao
What do you mean? If Palestinians accept a two state solution and want the Palestinians immigrants to return to the 1967 borders then it’s fine but when they want Palestinians immigrants to return to the land which called Israel now is completely unrealistic 😂
The right of return exactly means returning Palestinians into Israel proper, otherwise it wouldn't even be discussed as Palestine by default would get control over it's immigration policy upon getting an independent state. The only thing they wouldn't get is their own standing army for obvious reasons.
Maybe Destiny should go now and visit Gaza and then come back abd tell us how wonderful it is. Bet he'd find it horrifying.
Self inflicted. As I wrote to another commenter. There has not been one Jew in Gaza in nearly 2 decades. It was left to self determination. Israel even supplied power, water etc.... The Arabs could have taken the hundreds of millions of dollars that come in from around the globe and made their lives better with infrastructure, economic development, land development and so on. They chose a different path. Thousands of rockets fired at civilians at a pretty much regular pace, development of terror tunnels and terrorists and the election of a deviant militant group. So the wall goes up. Again, security. How could Isreal not build that wall. The rockets continue and Isreal gets charged with creating an open air prison and your erroneous term, apartheid. What a joke. "There will be peace when the Arabs love their children more than they hate us" - G. Meir. Truer words have never been spoken.
@@CotesDuQ "It was left to self determination" There's no self determination if their imports/exports are managed by another state, they cannot have a standing military, cannot form alliances/trade partners without Israel approval, do not control their own borders or airspace and don't even have their own airport. Everything following this incorrect point becomes nonsense if you recognize the reality of life in Gaza inflicted by Israel. Israel specifically blockades the tools they would need to do any of those things ffs. You mention the rockets from Hamas but Israel still kills more Palestinians yearly. The rockets kill next to nobody and Israel terrorizes the West Bank too where Hamas isn't even present. Your bias is insane.
@@Vizardog Yes, I am biased......mostly because I do not now, nor have I ever believed that the Arabs want peace with Israel. River to sea and all. When Hamas states in its very charter that its goal is to destroy Isreal, I believe them. And they have shown that they mean it. You can make all the excuses you want but until they get rational, reasonable leadership their misery will continue.
And by the way, stating that the rockets don't really do much damage is beneath the otherwise reasonable points you are making.
@@CotesDuQ What an idiotic comment. Gaza is completely controlled by Israel. The shoreline is controlled by Israel, all borders. Every resource that enters Gaza is completely controlled by Israel, even on the Egyptian border. Egypt must get an ok from Israel to bring in any resources. No one in Gaza can leave unless with certain permissions from the Israeli government. It is literally a prison.
The Israeli policy for food resources going in is to keep Palestinians to just above a starvation diet. 50 percent of Palestinians live under severe food instability, and that's prior to the current raid on Gaza. It is worse now and could possibly become a famine. 90 percent of the water is undrinkable and there are many diseases effecting Palestinians because of it. That's just part of it.
If any of this is ok with you, you are a lunatic. You are then an apologist for State Terrorism, the highest crime in the world court.
how can destiny defend them telling ppl to relocate & they bomb where they relocated to.. that's just sick behaviour.. classes, honorless behaviour 1:53:32
Because, as he said and as is true everywhere in war ever, the notion is not that you will be invincible but that you will be safer. Hamas also gets the message and relocates it's assets to the safer zones. The fact that you don't understand how war works or are intentionally ignoring it holding Israel only to an impossible standard is the core problem that Destiny (and many "zios") are so perplexed about
@@ranharel7033 it's morally.. unjust.. idc about the weird justifications.. "at least the worn them first" .. just because "this is how war always goes" or "they actually gave more warnings than anyone in history" it just sounds like some p*ssy avoiding accountability shit.. they're just covering their ass cuz they know they're wrong.. don't piss on me & tell me it's raining
Black people in south africa was not considered citizens of south africa but of the bantustans. Destiny is really making the exact same argument that the whites in south africa did for their apartheid.
I needed a palet cleanser after the norm garbage. Glad someone could actually engage on the arguments for a change.
This was a good discussion.
Would love to see Destiny and Mark Lamont Hill have another discussion too.
Lol historians r talking rubbish let me listen to a gamer 👏🏾
@Haytch-hw2hu discrediting a figure rather and making personal attacks than engaging with the argument or evidence. Yeah, classic norm fan.
@@Haytch-hw2hu Stinkerstein is not a historian.
27:06
Get this mouth breather away from this topic!!
dgg chatters will see a man apologize for being rude and say "HES ALREADY WALKING BACK OMEGALUL"
we know that Israel has never been in favor of a two-state solution. That's why Israel propped up and funded Hamas. They don't have to negotiate with the Palestinians if Hamas is in power, which is why Israel propped up Hamas to be in power.
Do you have any citation for these claims?
@@ChilledfishStick From Haaretz: "“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,” Netanyahu told his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy"
destiny has some pretty bad israli takes. his oppinion seems to be attack anyone that thinks what israel is doing is wrong and defend israel at literally all cost. like who's paying you bro.
Nobody cares about your super vague criticism and inability to think someone can disagree with you righteously
Your mother is paying him for a good time.
@REDDAWNproject that's funny, but you should've left it as "your mom." Still funny though.
The most outlandish arguments in support of an ethnostate - Destiny edition.
This guy rolled in with the Southern Gentleman swag and it seems to be working
He's British
He’s not southern?
naive to suggest that isreal somehow would have stopped at the 1948 partition, if the arabs accepted it. when have legal borders stopped them before ?
Their greater country project involves parts of other countries as well
Really? Why is it naive? Did Israel expand into Egypt and Jordan after the peace treaties? You have 0 facts
Every time it their acquisition of land wasn't due to a war initiated by the other party. Seems if you want Israel to remain within their borders, other countries should probably stop attacking them. Of course, supporting such attacks does the opposite. How is this hard?
@@thisisone9529 What about illegal settlements in the West Bank? Those have been built continuously, not just after wars. Also what do you think of Netanyahu showing off his map of "Greater Israel?"
@@Ssalamanderr "illegal" is an interesting term, here, considering these aren't "laws" that have been broken, they're claims by parties with no power, since Israel hasn't signed over its sovereignty to the ICC. You might notice that these organizations seem to care so much about what Israel does, but not so much about what anyone else does, considering there are resolutions condemning Israel for doing the same thing that other countries do, even when Israel goes above and beyond what those other countries do to protect civilian life. Why do you think this double standard exists? In reality, Israel has made agreements and stayed within the bounds of them until it is shown that the other party has violated them. Why do you hold Israel to terms but not the other parties?
LOL I almost wonder if this title is intentionally the opposite of the usual clickbait as some kind of an experiment.
Title is fairly clickbaity, just a different kind.
The point of clickbait is to make you click it. The fact that it's different means that it's more likely to get your attention. Kinda like how advertisements became about being whacky therefore an ad coming out that wasn't got your attention. If every title is clickbaity, then none of them are.
@@runelt99 sort of like how if every dude you bang has a giant penis, then none of them do
@@runelt99 I'm not sure if I buy that. The titles we're accustomed to are clickbaity precisely because those titles _do_ get people to click on them more. They are just the most extreme possible interpretation of the content of the video with some capitalization thrown in, typically. It could be the case that the clickbait titles are all succeeding, with that success being divided up between a million of them, and that titles like these fail to get any traction. It's not zero sum, as someone can always spend more of their 24hr day watching videos than they currently are if they want to.
@@mackhomie6 I'm not saying that these will take over the titles, just saying that such a subversive title on Destiny's who you would expect to have hostile debates, is very notable to any viewer that knows Destiny.
I love how destiny thinks talking over someone is the same as winning.
Destiny only started talking over the guest when it became clear that the guest kept interrupting him. I dare you go to back and compare how long Destiny lets the guest speak uninterrupted vs vice-versa. If destiny hadn't started talking over him, he would never have been able to talk for more than 20 seconds.
@siIverspawn For example, at around 44:33 in the discussion. The guest was accusing Destiny of not only going by the facts. But that Destiny was unfairly accusing the Palestinians aggression, and giving Isreal aggression as a pass. Destiny response was well, Isreal has a history of peace, and Palestinians dose nothing but launch rockets. Knowing full well if the logic is applied in the reverse direction, he could call him an antisemitic.
Therefore: the logic for winning the debate is to announce loudly why the Palestinians deserved their suffrage during the last 70 years by the hands of their occupier. But if you were to extend the timeline to 1939 (Europe) or to 1860(Russia)... and about every previous century in different sections of Europe to about 1000A.D. Then, say maybe there is a pattern here. This would be taboo and antisemitic. Therefore, a free get outta jail card whenever the argument is turning against him
@@brianroth9175 none of this has anything to do with what I said
The other dude talked over Destiny way more, he'd ramble for 5 minutes, Destiny would try to respond, only to get immediately cut off and talked over.
@Rat-King27 re watching it was more even than my first impression.
23:30 is when Destiny's intolerable motor-mouthing starts. It is absolutely insufferable.
The more I subject myself to this entire debate the more clear it is that destiny is incredibly disingenuous in his framing. He does exactly the thing he accuses his opponents of doing which is exclusively focusing on the violence from the opposing side, in this case on Arab violence rather and completely downplaying the brutality and asymmetry of the Israeli military response, the criminal and brutal nature of their occupation and settlement of Palestinian land, the colonial and nationalist character of zionism, and the obvious racist nature of Israel's immigration policy as well as their treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank.
You can see it in the weaselly words Destiny uses when he must concede the evil-doings of Israel. "well the IDF PROBABLY favors the settlers over the Palestinians." "Yeah occupation SUCKS. It's not FUN to be occupied." "Civilian death SUCKS! It SUCKS when that happens." "Sure Israel bombed the south where they told the Palestinians to evacuate but it's still SAFER than the north so." "The Palestinians DON"T KNOW what they want and NEVER want to actually broker peace." At every turn he just keeps downloading Israel's brutal occupation and wanton killing of civilians and destruction of civilian property.
And then simultaneously where does he actually employ strong critical language? "Palestinians are CONSANTLY wanting to shoot rockets at Israel." "Palestinians despise the jews and would KILL jews in their territory given the chance." All these statements are incredibly deceptive. Palestinian rockets over the course of decades have killed about as many civilians as a single IDF operation does every single day. And as far as the reality of the racism on the ground. You can hypothesize all you want about what arabs would do to jews given the chance but the REALITY we are witnessing is Jews routinely settling on Arab land, stealing their homes, evicting them with total impunity and protection from the IDF.
It is SO clear that Destiny is pushing one specific side of the narrative all the while pretending to be the only true fair arbiter of the conflict while everyone else is just blindly hating on Israel/America and supporting everything Palestinians do. There certianly is the latter happening too but Destiny's rhetoric is achieving the exact opposite. Straight up propaganda to justify and soften Israel's heinous crimes, nationalist racist settler regime, and illegal long-term occupation which is essentially an annexation while painting the Palestinians as essentially totally unserious unrealistic jew-hating barbarians incapable of negotiating peace.
Unironically one of August's better thumbnails
Why do i feel like this was a better conversation than the Twinklestien debate>
Still coping from that one?
bro, there is no worse conversation than that one
that's literally the worst conversation destiny has ever had in his life
@@fran13r I mean it was pretty bad, but come on, this is Destiny we're talking about here. He's had some crazy debates in the past.
It's a low point in the 2024 dgg calendar not because D man did poorly but because the payoff wasn't worth the effort put into it
@@viziontrex Exactly, he WASTED days if not weeks of his streaming time reading a ton of shit for quite literally no reason cause that stupid old man didn't engage at all.
This guy is clearly from England by his accent, but it sounds like he moved to the US when he was like 17.
Because if you move when you are 20, you maintain your original accent, but if you move when you are 12, you lose it, but he sounds like he's got 60% of what I imagine his original accent was. Am I totally off here?
It’s actually quite sad to see how unhinged Steve has become.
It really is, I'm shocked he actually has fans still. I used to like his stuff but it didn't take me long to realize he is literally just in it to debate for optics, he does not care about any of the topics he talks about. He was pro-palestine/anti-ethnically cleansing like 4 years ago, he knows he's wrong on this topic and yet he argued these points because he knows in the political sphere he can be inflammatory about it and will get lots of coverage for it
Nathan is really good at this. His patience is astounding.
About halfway through Steven claims Nathan’s argument is doomer, whereas Nathan, while conceding the serious difficulties and obstacles involved in brokering a peace negotiation, retorts that actually, it is Steven who is being fatalistic. The truth is all policy paradigms shift over time-reforms inexorably take place-and in turn attitudes of people groups downstream from new governance arrangements change, too, sometimes gradually and others drastically. I share Nathan’s pragmatic optimism and believe that, in this instance, Steven was clearly projecting. We should be careful not to underestimate the extent to which reforms like enfranchisement, civil rights, and basic codified equality go toward transforming us/them enmity. Normalization is possible, to assume otherwise is fatalistic. Now, Steven went on to make valid points about disparate perceptions of responsibility and culpability, which, to be fair, do present further obstacles to a just settlement. That said, these points do not detract from Nathan’s pragmatic argument, which is that the US ought to make greater use of the levers at its disposal to broker negotiation.
Take just one thing like water away from Americans for a few days and see how horrific they find it. The disconnect is ridiculous.
Pin
7 months later and no mass starvation🤔
Agree with Destiny: terms like "apartheid" "open-air prison" "genocide" become distractions. The argument becomes about the validity of using those words and their definitions, which can be argued endlessly, rather than clearly describing what is happening in an even-handed way.
But isn’t that what destiny is arguing against in the first place?
As far as I can tell the political and media class does everything it can to avoid acknowledging those descriptions, as even acknowledging them would associate Israel with apartheid, genocide, and open-air prison conditions for Palestinians. The only people I see centering arguments around those terms are people like Destiny or groups like the ADL or Canary Mission that smear people as anti-Semites for accurately describing the conditions Israel imposes on Palestinians. You don’t hear Fox News or CNN debating whether Israel is an apartheid state, they just ignore the charge altogether
The words usage is valid. It’s a distraction for people who deny their validity.
There’s literally no international debate about this. No disagreement between the human rights organizations. There’s no controversy anywhere except in the depraved expansionist apartheid dreams of genocidal Zionists who believe putting Palestinians in concentration camps is good, or at least okay.
Said Zionists and their allies are merely more repulsed by the label they inherit by their beliefs and policies than the repulsive beliefs and policies themselves. Hence, the inner conflict projected outward on the rest of human decency and the inherent resentment which springs forth from that burden 🤷🏻
I’ve watched over 100 hours of content on this subject and this is by far the best conversation I’ve heard. The fact they have no direct skin in the game makes it better.
The only issue I have is as both secular intellectuals they don’t understand the religious aspect and are speaking purely from western ratjonal and logic which can only go so far.
If this is an incredibly good debate inspite of the unearned smugness and the oblivouseness to the obvious double standard, just shows how low the bar is for this subject.
Bonnell has huge political and personal motives here. A person with reasonable intent could not be this stubborn on the issue of Palestinian motives. He simply will not concede this point. He stated some weeks ago that he wanted to travel to Israel and hopes to interview Netanyahu. I’m starting to see the links in the chain now. He has personal reasons to conduct his conversations in the manner we’re seeing. There is no valid reason to be so unbending on this issue of Palestinian motives. Benny Morris doesn’t talk like this. Morris has been nuanced on this point.
Thankfully I find one commenter with some sense. Destiny’s lack of ability to understand the Palestinian motives for the violence which he knows so much about seems almost fake. He cannot even seem to really sympathize with their plight.
@@TheBlinky81did we watch the same video right here? Destiny went as far as to say as if it was 1947 right now and he saw Palestinians fighting for their territory he would say to go for it. He basically stated that Israel fucks up plenty , but already get held accountable for any wrong move , but it seems that the powers controlling Gaza infinite justification for violence and sympathy when they have to face repercussions for said violence.
If you really are empathising with the plight of the Palestinian people and want to see a world in which they have complete autonomy, you also have to accept that with that autonomy comes accountability.
I honestly have no idea what Destiny genuinely thinks about this topic after all these months. Idk if HE does. I think he knows it’s just a heated subject and there’s an infinite supply of people he can yell at.
This conversation was so illuminating. I really like Destiny. But I have been so frustrated with how he has been covering this conflict. He's largely accurate on the historical matters (not 100%) but the way he's been discussing this conflict has been laughably unproductive. So Destiny has been hyper-fixating on assigning blame to the Palestinians because there's no shortage of condemnation for Israel? Does he not see the problem there? I'm glad Nathan was able to get some clarification on some key matters and hopefully Destiny is able to move forward and have a more productive conversation that helps to solve the problem instead of create new ones.
He is very far from being historically accurate and I feel he will change his mind when it is more financially profitable and drives more attention to his channel. For now, the pro Israel side has been more financially attractive.
“Israel has only acquired land in response to aggression” - continuously expanding West Bank settlements disprove this
“Israel has made peace with Egypt and Jordan but not with Palestinians so therefore it must be Palestinians that are the problem”-
Well in fact America played a huge role in brokering Egyptian and Jordanian peace initiatives. Also Israel wasn’t occupying the bulk of either of these countries. They never occupied Jordan and they only occupied a relatively unpopulated and unproductive Sinai peninsula.
The bias in narratives from Destiny is extreme and this sort of rhetoric is the real impediment to a good faith peace process.
The right of return has been seen as an important symbolic agreement for decades. The numbers touted by various Palestinian negotiators has been in the 100,000 - 300,000 range over several years.
A withdrawal to 1967 borders has been consistently understood to include land swaps which have been part of every negotiation since camp David and not at all rejected by Palestinians negotiators.
It’s such an obvious centrist position to accept the Arab peace initiative like 95% of countries do in the UN each year.
Israeli settlements make up less than 5% of WB land. And Oslo put no controls on growth. Arabs colonized 3 continents.
And the US undermined peace w/Egypt. Sadat was ready for peace with Israel BEFORE 1973, but Kissinger told the Israelis the Arabs wanted war.
And Israel was open to the arab peace initiative, it's the Saudis who refused israeli negotiations.
Again all pro-Arab talking points count on people being historically illiterate.
@@John-bravooo what the heck are you talking about? The saudis said no to their own peace initiative? Maybe best if you sit this discussion out lmao
@Nahsorry the Saudis said NO to israel negotiations. Israel never rejected the saudi initiative. But arabs wouldn't negotiate. OP rewrites history and makes it seem this proposal was ignored by israel. Not true.
And abraham accords debunk the Saudi peace initiative.
wait, you think the sinai is unproductive? israel the suez canal is the lifeblood of egypt, israel sitting on it could completely cripple egypt again, like it already did in the past. the sinai is in fact one of the most important stretches of land on this entire planet
One Advice for Destiny is to stick with "One point" in your Israel-Palestine debates till your opponent stops diverting. I've been noticing people deflecting from your points and diverting - because you actually bring some amazing points Dez.
Make them answer one point and then move on to the next. Because you're pretty fast and people might think you're being desperate. Kindly slow down just to make the opponent look weaker - especially Idi0ts like Norman.
If you start doing that people just won't talk to you. This is a tactic that gets him to a larger audience and gives him a chance of influencing their audience.
Diverting and constant moving of goal posts is literally what Destiny does
any time the debate is going poorly for destiny he starts talking at 3x speed and spitting out as many random arguments he can think of. Like when he starts talking about the Ottoman Empire lmao.
Props to Nathan to sit and have the patience to debate this worm
this was awesome, man! i had been hoping someone would have Scott on for a long format conversation.
Does Destiny ever realize talking fast with a gish gallop really doesn't make him sound that intelligent about this issue????
Norm is that you
destiny is very obviously constantly on stimulants lol just look at his jaw while he talks
it makes it harder to notice the constant moving of the goalposts.
Bad take. For this to be true, you have to assume that he intentionally speeds up his cadence for optics. I'll gladly wait for you to prove this. Don't take too long Norm.
@@orion00 every time he gets challenged substantially he starts talking super fast and spitting out whatever BS he can think of
Like the games he plays, Destiny believes IDF is playing a video game in Gaza, where points are won and lost based on non-combatants to combatants ratio killing. He does not believe palestinians are human.
Palestinians are humans and you kill humans in war, that's what you do.
And yes, what you do is try to optimize for the ratio of non combatants to combatants killed within the constraints of having to win. Israel does this successfully despite the wishes of Ben Gvir and Yahya Sinwar.
43:51 what evidence is there that the Palestinians have a strategy to wait until presidents leave
If Steven really gave a shit about Palestinian life, he wouldn’t give a shit even if the rhetoric applied by humanitarians was actually hyperbolic.
Holding Hamas responsible for what is taking place in Gaza does not equal indifference to Palestinian life.
I love how the pro-Palestinian position often boils down to "they don't mean what they say", or "they really want these other things that they don't talk about".
It only got better when he realized he didn't like Netanyahu
The pro palisinian side saying 'it's Israel's fault for not coming to an agreement because the USA has elections every 4 years' is a new one for me.
Settlements
It would be so hilarious if Nathan J. Robinson became a Destiny orbiter after this.
He’ll start rotating out with Pakman
He'll be summoned when levee construction or cockroach behavior is in question
''And Islam isn't?'' OH BOY. We know what's at the root of Destinys position now... things get clearer and clearer. ''All the violence was instigated on the arab side'' 😂 ''Islam'' and ''Arabs'' the magic words.
You say Zionism was an explicitly colonial ethnosupremacist project and it's founders openly stated this? Well what about THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE HUH SMART GUY?
My first impression of this guy is he sounds like he’s trying to do an imitation of himself
is it really 2.5 civilians for every hamas opperative? cause if that is true, in an area as densely populated than tokyo, that is astounding.
Yup. It's indeed true. You can search it easily
we dont know, neither side has credible numbers
idf currently says they think they have killed 10-12k militants
hamas says that around 30k palestinians were killed, without distinguishing militants from civillians, there is also a 6k militant deaths number but that comes from a hamas official that's in fucking qatar
neither side provided any real proof, for obvious reasons
92% of the martyrs are non-combatant civilian persons
That is under the assumption that every male killed is Hamas, which is unlikely
It's a lie hhhhhhh so all Gaza is 2 millions it means more than 500 k fighter is just some racist claims
My favorite part of this video ist the chat comment at 18:32
"he's like if Tucker Carlson was cute" - quality meme community Mr Barilla!
Where is this dudes accent coming from, I’m pretty sure he said he’s American, but has a strange British affect.
I mean Christopher Hitchens became an American citizen before he died. Nathan Robinson was born in England and then became American.
Asians and black folks who are North American have their own accents… same shit with the Brit’s brotha… believe it or not 🫢 😂
But it is wayyyy more acceptable to be racist to us Asians rather than white Europeans with their accents. Pls don’t lie 🫢😂
I was born here and faced every piece of racism the world has to offer ahaha 😢
Might have moved or could be put on a bit I've noticed a lot of autistic yanks like to put on some kind of southern English accent guess they think it makes them sound more intelligent if only they knew the truth lol.
he was born in england
Refuting that starvation is happening is crazy, Destiny. Thats what happens when an area is being bombed, supply chains are disrupted, aid is disrupted, crop harvesting is disrupted, you can’t plant anything, livestock dies off. Bro this is just a consequence of war, intended or not. This is how people have died for all of recorded human history, war brings famine, because people are unable to produce, process, and transport adequate food.
The most painful part of this was accidentally reading the stream chat occasionally.
Damn destiny is bad faith
Destiny has gone full blown hasbara, it's quite disgusting. Eventhing the occupied Palestinians do or go through is suspect, while colonist, nuclear Israel gets the benefit of the doubt every single time.
Hi, can someone drop the name of the software Destiny is using to organize his research and stuff ? Thanks.
I think i’ve seen him using obsidian for note taking
@@lachiemaxwell yes it's Obsidian
How are quotes from the founders of zionism “random”? They said what they were going to do and exactly what they said happened.
Are you implying they are prophets? The land was taken through war, after ISRAEL was attacked. The only way your logic works is if you go down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories thinking that the decades that led up to this were all carefully orchestrated plans to gain the land. That’s so ridiculous and you lack any evidence, aside from people saying stuff, which NEWS FLASH, is not definitive proof.
Y’all cling to quotes bc you can’t point to policy.
@@joellecohen679 Cling to quotes of....
Checks notes*....the creators of Zionism who's policies guided the establishment of the state
@@joellecohen679 THEY CREATED THE STATE???? It baffles me that you act like the opinions of the founders of zionism and PMs of israel arent relevant!
@@joellecohen679 Israel has literally enshrined their illegal settlement policy in their Basic Law (similar to a constitution) and consider settlement (ie displacing Palestinians and taking their land) as a national value.
Why is Nathan Robinsons name not in the title? Why the lame framing?
destiny seems to care about basic forms of civility and decency in debates only if it suits him...
Don’t think Destiny writes the titles
@@coenhealy-johnson5194 so an agency does?
@@sensationsuperthrust think his editor does the titles, thumbnails etc
@@coenhealy-johnson5194 interesting
Convo exceeded expectations.
The Palestinians in the West Bank do not want Israeli citizenship and would not accept it if it were offered.
Want their own state yes??
Compelling moral arguments for both side.
This guy gets it
I can’t tell if you’re joking. Just curious, what is the compelling moral argument for Islamic Jihad?
2:04:05 one of the farmers who was killed on october 7th, was interviewed a few months before, regarding the work next to Gaza.
Among his herd were many calfs raised specifically for Gaza, for Kebabs.
There was no dog food mentality.
If I had to wager, prior to october 7th it wasn’t about not letting excess aid in, but about making sure enough aid is entering.
Israel had a policy of “putting Gaza on a diet.” They deliberately kept the amount of calories coming into Gaza at a subsistence level. Any amount of “normalized obesity” present can be explained by Hamas’ success at smuggling in contraband items from Egypt. You can hear tale after tale from Palestinian children in Gaza of their dreams of one day tasting ice cream. Israel’s siege and effective occupation of Gaza was cruel and unusual enough to provoke the October 7th massacre. A truly non-biased mind can perceive this quite easily.
Israel has literally monitored the amount of calories that entered Gaza, they called it "putting Palestinians on a diet." They were open about this, it's not a secret.
For anyone who's watching this wondering how this is a "good debate", it gets better at about the 1:00:00 to 1:15:00 mark. However, it's still not "incredibly good", just better than the usual - IMO the Marc Hill one was much better.
OK good to know, I'm only 40 minutes in and it's painful, the dude is interrupting and rejecting most of what Destiny says.
Here before the hate watchers