Ok, I think any objective viewer accepts the facts. This leads to an obvious follow up question: WHY has it become such a standard within the industry that it’s applied to an obvious vocal phenom like Dimash? I’d love to see you interview a producer or engineer who supports the use of this technology to hear their views. Either way, Fil, this is some of the best stuff you’ve ever done. Thank you.
It's the same as with brickwall limiting, people just do it even though it objectively sounds bad. There's no good reason to do either, yet it almost seems like there's some unknown force that threaten every single engineer or producer into squeezing the life out of musical performances.
I found the explanation of Creactiva Mente (another sound engineer channel that has some videos about the subject) very plausible. He says that the abuse of the autotune effect is based primarily on the industry logic. The most popular songs of the last decade, the most listened to, are plagued with the use of the autotune effect. That is because to the ear and the mind, it's easier to retain a stable and simple sound than a complex and changeable one (like the natural human voice is). He says than in 21 century, in commercial music, for the industry there is a golden word and that is "simplicity": simple melodies, simple rythms, simple voices. What voice can be simpler than a generic and stable one? If you add a simple and catchy melody, there is a high probability that it can easily get stuck in peoples ears and mind. New generations are so used to it that they don't even notice they are listening to an artificial effect. That is in general. About the two artists mentioned here, Pavarotti sang opera, in many occasions without amplification (but NOT always). Dimash is independent, he has not signed to any label in exclusivity because he wants to keep creative control of his music. In his own solo concerts, they use effects like reverb and delay, but not autotune. I guess that in his presentations in some other venues (Russian tv, Slavic Bazaar, New Wave, etc.), the sound is out of his control.
@@MsLucy4ever Yes, but it is not autotuned. Creactiva told me he much prefers Krutoy productions to the Chinese ones, for example, because despite his love of prerecords he doesn't ever mess with Dimash's natural vocals.
I can't stand an auto-tuned or pitch corrected voice. The part at 25:33, I heard it live in NY, and it was such a shocking moment, because live it sounded so rich, so powerful, so amazing. I remember exclaiming WOW, because I totally wasn't expecting that, based on the version I was used to hearing. In his solo concerts we hear his natural voice (and I prefer fancams to the finished product after). Another note is that even all the fancams and videos you can find on youtube with his unaltered voice, when listening to them it's a wonderful experience, but any speakers or headphones we may have do no justice to how MAGNIFICENT he sounds live. And one more note, he did say in an interview that he's not a fan of altered voices, and that these days anyone can become a singer. He did practice his craft from a young age, and is classically trained. It's really a shame when his raw vocals are put through autotune or pitch correction. Really such a shame! p.s. Another singer who I love, whose real voice we get to hear, is Eva Ayllon from Peru, a living legend. p.p.s. It would be so nice if you could find more unaltered performances from Dimash and include that in a video. :)
Hi Chelsea, thx for the"tip" bringing Eva Ayllon to attention. A bit to my shame I hadn't heard of her before. But that was untill now. What I've seen in just a few short views of one or two live-clips, is what I really love about real great artists: true appreciation of their musicians (and showing it) and true contact with the fans/public (and feeling it). Much like Patti LaBelle, for example, who -like Dimash- is also born on May 24th (only 50 years in between haha). And I am craaaazy of the both of them. Adding Eva doesn't seem like a bad choice at all, lol. So again: muchas gracias Chelsea! :-D
@@sanderdegroot6628 Awwww, thanks so much for your reply and for checking out Eva!! :) I'm overjoyed every time she gains a new fan! In Peru she is HUGE, and recently she received a life time achievement award from the Latin Grammys. But outside of Latin America, she is largely unknown and it's such a shame! Oh totally, as you say, she connects with the audience 100%, and shows appreciation of her musicians throughout the concert (and in real life too). Her singing is superb and so unique. With some performances I melt with the first note! I don't know where you are in this world, but she is having a mini tour in the US right now I think. Patti LaBelle, wow!! I used to listen to soul music and ONLY soul music for a while. I know all the greats. Still one of my favourite singing styles. :)) And holy cow, I didn't know she has the same bday as Dimash. That's awesome! Imagine if they sang something together? Meanwhile, I'm waiting for an Eva Dimash duet to happen. So, Eva was my fave singer, until I discovered Dimash. Now they both are. And... guess who was the only celebrity to attend Dimash's NY concert and post about it on social media? Eva!! I'm waiting for my dream come true to happen.....
The part at 25:33 you refer to has been repeated by Dimash many times in performances that are NOT autotuned so I am sure the uploader does not realise this. In a separate post I included some old links, but he's even more precise now. I also get a bit annoyed at TH-cam reviewers of Ave Maria who think it must be autotuned when, again, there are old videos of him practising those voice techniques perfectly. The other thing about Ave Maria is that he does not wear in-ear monitors, so he has no reference point. In fact, towards the end of Ave Maria there is an aural "marker" for him when you hear a BELL ring for a second, so he knows how much longer is left.
Oh wow! I'm kind of a Dimash fan, watched loads of reactions to him and this was the best video on him I've seen. Thanks so much for explaining all that and proving your case, as some people really live in denial ;) You also made me realized that similarly to unrealistic expectations towards bodies we also have unrealistic expectations towards voices. That's so sad.
On a pragmatic note, there is no such thing as a human voice being technically pitched accurately to that of a calibrated musical intrument. You can however find singers who have an ear for excellent pitch meaning they are able to hit very close or on spot of the desired notes more often than others hence why we say they are great singers. Audio wave forms are technical data, not opinion or one's ear. I work for an electronics design and development company in the UK and engage with our electronics design engineers. We've done many audio products so yes, data don't lie. Just our ears are not perfectly calibrated. Dimash is an absolute monster of a vocalist and I've heard him sing in a home video without music, but without a reference point, it can be tricky. But even he says he is human. He sang half of SOS without music in Kazakhstan before his 2017 explosion, at a little venue. While he was very young there, it will give you an idea of his then natural singing voice. Excellent by the way. His range is phenomenal! Problem is the studios are obsessed with autotuning that even the most fantastic singers are tampered with sadly. ☹
You are correct, Sort of. You can “sync” a human voice and a keyboard (synthesizer). I believe David Foster and his “team” have actually done this. I just read a piece in MIT’s Tech journal about a group who are working on a synth that will duplicate perfectly the sound (timbre and all) of any instrument. The Fairlight was step in this direction. By the way, I wasn’t familiar with Dimash and the little I’ve heard is IMOP a freakish sounding voice I find hard to listen to. In tune naturally, imperfectly “in tune” or off key it is the tone, depth and timbre I find weird. This whole issue is gotten into the realm of absurd. We have been “fooling” around with the human voice since live performances (teens singing in stairwells, folks warbling in the shower) and since the beginnings of recorded music. Put a mic on a singer and it’s off to the races so to speak.
@@orlock20 very true. Music in performance or especially recorded is an illusion. As you note (pun intended), there is more to a vocal performance than “pitch.” Timbre, use of falsetto, yodeling ( Mutt Lange discovered that Andrea Corr (The Corrs) could yodel and had her apply that technique to great affect in a hit song “Breathless”). During the era of the diva, it was all about range and volume then came melisma! How a singer conveys emotion. Overused any of these techniques are annoying and obvious. The problem with Phil’s comparisons is taking singers from entirely different genres and styles each with its own conventions and most importantly, audiences. Pavarotti fronting Queen singing “ Somebody to Love” would be awful (my guess). Freddie Mercury singing a Buble’ song?
seems that differences in the length and form of the Eustachian tube tubes and structure of the cavities in the head may be why some singers seem so able to hit and hold more pleasing tones when they are using their voice, some sort of positive reinforcement is going on
Dimash, the singer, is irrelevant. What people are accustomed to hearing is Dimash "the brand," which, whether studio or live, is an auto tuned sound. His fans still believe that what they hear is actually how he sounds, so there is no incentive ($) to stop auto tuning or pitch correction. The fact that Dimash has a great stage presence is, frankly, more important to his handlers than how he sounds. But this is the music industry right now.
@@John_Malloy His fans believe......? They are not that stupid who believe in eye shut down. His concerts has thousands of viweres, thousands of mobile recording him? Have you ever thought that? His fans could be curious or inteligent? They could check those fancams? I am so tired these type of fame seekers who uses Dimash😐
@@John_Malloy what are u talking abt? Dimash is actually the only artist who is moving the opposite direction of music industry flow, if not so he would have been deservingly a world wide super star by now
Wow, their voices are so beautiful without auto tune. I’ve come to the conclusion these excellent singers don’t need it. Let us hear their natural voice! Thanks Fil.
As a classically trained musician, my understanding of perfect pitch is nothing to with pitching your voice perfectly -- not about about singing perfectly in tune. It's about recognising a note as e.g. A or F# or being able to pitch a named note in isolation. Someone can sing brilliantly in tune (can pitch perfectly) but be unable to sing an F# to order. And vice versa! --
Having perfect pitch (in terms of recognizing notes, not necessarily singing them) is not always such a good thing. I have very strong relative pitch sense and it makes me uncomfortable when a guitar string or any other instrument isn’t in tune relatively with itself or other instruments. Imagine someone with perfect pitch trying to play a piano or other instrument that’s even slightly out of tune, and how painful that would be for them?
I find this analysis fascinating, I'm not an engineer or musician, just a fan who over thinks everything. One of the things I've said for years is how modern music all sounds the same, and how I can't tell who I'm listening to on the radio. I'm exaggerating to be fair as they don't sound identical but as someone who grew up listening to music like Iron Maiden in the 80's something sounded off with modern musicians. After watching this, and your last video it seems obvious to me what my layman brain is trying to tell me, what my ears are reacting to is pitch correction and auto-tune and it's homogenizing effects on music. It's such a shame this has become so common. As a side note as well, I already have about 5,000 reason why I hate modern talent shows like X-Factor but this is a big one. How some 2 pence pop singer can sit and judge some poor kid's voice while all the time knowing their own material is "augmented" is hypocrisy at it's finest.
Iron Maiden is not a pop or too forty or adult contemporary group. Apples and oranges is a huge problem with these analogies. Every music genre has its conventions.
@@JohnLnyc I disagree, just because I mentioned one band doesn't mean my point is specific to just that band. You can pick any band or artist from 35 years ago and it would be the exact same point. As a perfect example I love Andy Bell's voice, it's not perfect and he never tried to make it perfect, especially live. It is however natural and full of emotion and as a result, much more interesting than any augmented singers I hear today, at least to me.
@@butIwantpewee He does have a nice voice and singing style. However digital vocal tuning didn’t appear until after 1998. You picked an interesting case. His later and more recent efforts have auto tune all over them. The fly in the ointment though is a change from the more classic synth driven dance pop to a more hardcore dance style. And that’s my point. But first, vocals were “shaped” using different techniques pre digital. The musical genre counts. Production is shaped by the market and the market has changed since 35 years ago. Andy’s more recent efforts are fitting into a more modern sound. I agree his earlier efforts are different. My take is the Erasure Andy is eminently listenable (you can dance to it as well), The later efforts are heavy dance with vocals in a less interesting but more modern style.
The most valuable part of perfect pitch is the ability to identify a note by hearing it. For a musician this is "context". If some singer is having an amazing singing performance and suddenly swallows some spit i do not mind a pitch touch up, but as you say it's not probable that anyone can hit every note precisely in a whole piece. One of the comments was also quite valid that it's a disservice to the singer who is really close but some ambitious engineer or producer decides it needs to be perfect. This is the same quandry that presents itself when drums are "dead on". It ruins the humanity of it all. Great piece Fil. Sorry you'll get some abuse for this but...they just don't "feel" the music like some of us do. Cheers!
@@lilym1421 I am not accusing anyone of anything. Some people like lyrics, some people like beats, some people like perfection. All I was saying was there is a certain "organic" element that has a different feel than perfection and some of us prefer that. As an example, I listened to the Eagles farewell tour, I think it was in Australia, and everything was perfect, the sound, the music, the harmonies etc and although I really enjoyed it, it seemed too perfect. That's all I was saying. No offense intended toward anyone. There is no proper way to enjoy art as far as I know, it's a personal experience. Keep enjoying the art and have a fabulous day.
@@ronb5949 Your explanation is valid and believable ( and I completely agree) but that last line of your initial comment did sound like it was initially taken. Personally I enjoyed lots of aspects of music but any enjoyed of the beat is ruined for me by the electronic beats. I will take a live stand up bass or real drums anytime but those are harder to find these days.
@@yardengali Dimash has an excellent live band in all his concerts, with a killer drummer and percussionist...everything one can imagine to the saxophone and ethnic Kazakh instruments, sometimes even the whole live orchestra... He himself is all-around musician and multi-instrumentalist. Just saying... ;)
@@paivyt. No worries, I am a fan and know Dimash is a great singer and a musician aswell. He is not who I was thinking of when writing my comment. I also know of some other excellent artists today. I was more thinking of today's general western popular musicscene. As compared to prior to the introduction of an overuse of technology in order to turn mediocrity into " stars". No doubt because people without actual artistry are way more easily manipulated and shoved into a mould.
Dimash has amazing live vocals in concerts, or just casual a capella moments behind scenes. He is always singing. 😎 I wish they would not adjust his voice in studio, because he is under-appreciated in this era of "autotune" and he has worked so hard on his craft and takes it seriously.🙄 No human pitch is truly "perfect" but he is really close....and Pavarotti is one of his inspirations.👍 His teacher identified him with "perfect pitch" at age 5 when he complained that the piano was out of tune.🤣
@@sahinberga good example is dimash singing sos beautifully in the ‘world’s best’ competition where there’s no autotuning. Another one is dimash and placido Domingo singing the duet pearl fisher obviously life. You can see he does not need autotuning.
@@mariasloan2284 "He doesn't need autotuning" and "he is using autotuning" are separate things. They might be using in "world's best" because TV shows are generally infamous in using autotune/pitch correction. Almost 90% of those TV music "competition" shows use pitch correction or autotune before airing the performances.
@@sahinberg if the point is about his capability, there’s plenty of evidence that there’s no need to cast doubt as we all know that he sings acapella all the time sometimes without a mic.. Also, he’s using autotuning and he’s being autotuned are two different things. It’s unfair to the singer to make assumptions.
@@mariasloan2284 "all the time sometimes"? Your sentence itself is confusing. It was shown by pitch monitoring software analysis that he used autotune in some of his concerts, if not all.
Both Dimash and Pavarotti are remarkably consistent, when uncorrected. I mean, look at the evenness of those vibratos. I'm not terribly familiar with Dimash, but clearly he is a phenomenal singer. PHENOMENAL. However, your waveform illustrations are spot on. I hear no "hate" from Fil about Dimash, his voice or his singing. Fil says more than once that Dimash's and Pavarotti's pitch senses are very close. That's pretty bluidy high praise! Great video again, Fil. OK, I'm convinced. I'm hitting the subscribe button.
You might know rules of logic like this: " If A, then B". In this analysis, WoP says " if A (normal voice), then B (too perfect compared to A, therefore autotune). Except that, in this case, A was wrong. A was Dimash' sick voice. To be able to make a proper " if A, then B " analysis, the recording used for A must be utmost quality, and deal with the same octave. Dimash wave sounds are very messy in mixed voice, as to be expected, but his wave pattern becomes surgically precise in head voice. So sadly, this analysis, though very interesting, to be valid, would need to use an appropriate "A".
comparing Pavarotti doing vocal warm ups and Dimash singing acapella on stage and saying that Dimash is "close" to Pavarotti? That is not objectivity. And speculating about the parts that cannot be seen on the monitor. I'm a huge fan of Pavarotti but this is not a fair comparison for this phenomenal young artist who is doing exceptional acrobatics with his voice while Pavarotti was mostly just standing still and singing perfectly using only the operatic technique. I don't hear hate either but I definitely hear prejudice, sorry.
I prefer Dimash's lower register. Can you imagine how different the world would be if they had auto-tuned Janis Joplin, Sarah Vaughan, Tony Bennett, Billie Holiday? It really does take the soul and feeling out of music nowadays. The great Harry Nilsson was another one that I'd like you to examine at some point. I really enjoy your videos.
I don’t think current audio engineers know how to not use Autotune. Its almost as if the sound guys feel they need to justify their fee. I don’t want to listen to sanitized music.
I agree. Pretty sure it started out as a way of fixing a recording that had a few bad notes, instead of having to record the song over. But now I think they do it to tracks without even thinking about whether they're close enough without it. Obviously, being close to the note without being tuned is the ideal case, both because that means your singing well and because you get all the little fluctuations that help comunicate emotion, etc.
@@deltab9768 ,the weird thing is that perfection do not even sound better. The human unperfection is what makes us connect with music. We are humans designed to be a part of the nature and nothing in the nature are perfect. A forest with only perfect symmetrical, 100% similar trees in perfect lines? Music is actually funny, the musicians think they need computers to get absoluty perfect timing and pitch, but pay high prices for old worn and scratched instruments because they cooler than a new and perfect. You can even buy your factory new guitar "factory scatched" so it look old and worn, for a raised price.
Something I'd like to point out with regarding classical singing and Pavarotti's warm up here; In classical tenor singing we need an enormous amount of well placed breath support and airflow to be able to hit notes with full voice. While yes he was trying to hit those notes it is very likely that his goal in that exercise was moreso to get his muscles activated and get a feel of his voice during that day.
I wish people would understand that all he is doing is showing how auto tune and pitch correction deceive the listener and its actually an insult thst it is used on all kinds of great singers regardless of who they are.
Back in college, our choir director taught us to “think high” on ascending phrases, to essentially stretch our pitch slightly upwards to counter the natural tendency to go slightly flat. Conversely, we tried to push pitch slightly down on descending phrases to avoid going slightly sharp. It wasn’t that we were terribly off-pitch, it was just trying to get us thinking about pitch, and to not get lazy, especially on longer phrases and runs. It also kept us listening to those around us as we sang. These videos are very interesting.
@@wingsofpegasus check his other SOS's renditions at Paris Unesco 2017, Spirit Steppe and Digital Show 2021 and let's see whether it was live or not? Pay attention in the high notes :) the pitch was still perfect with his raw voice, jezzz :) and i just realize how dumb you are for saying that performance was recording lol (at the wedding or event) everybody knows it was obviously 1000% live
@@nickkazich1904 He could be using live autotune. It does it instantly whilst they are singing. It's a tiny box connected to the microphone. The guy recording on his phone is only recording what's coming out of the speakers (after it would be autotuned). Not saying this is autotuned, just saying it's a possibility.
Ich finde das eine sehr interessante Analyse und ich bin überzeugt, dass diese "Korrekturen" bei allen Sängern viel öfter eingesetzt werden, als man glaubt. Das die menschliche Stimme kein Computer ist, ist auch klar. Was ich wirklich schade finde, ist dass für die Analyse der "natürlichen" Stimme eine Aufnahme genommen wurde, bei der Dimash nachweislich krank war. Das rückt den Eindruck der Objektivität etwas in's schiefe Licht. Trotzdem ein gelungener Beitrag, Dankeschön. Ich glaube die Begeisterung über Dimash liegt daran, dass er so viele unterschiedliche Gesangstechniken in einem unglaublichen Stimmumfang fast perfekt umsetzen kann. Diese Bandbreite ist absolut beeindruckend.
... und um ehrlich zu sein: auch wenn einem die Zeit dafür fehlt, passendes Material für die Analyse selber heraus zusuchen, oder zu überprüfen, müsste man vielleicht in weiterer Folge - rein zur objektiven Information Ihrer Zuseher - die Information, dass Dimash bei der Aufnahme ernsthaft erkrankt war, nachreichen, sprich anpinnen. Dann würde diese Analyse noch professioneller werden ... nur meine persönliche Meinung ✌💙
Да! Я не ошиблась, это именно та запись из Китая, где он пел с больным горлом. Было видно,что голос не слушается и ему тяжело петь. Он просто не смог обидеть тех, кто пришел увидеться с ним и спел немного акапелло. Это было очень трогательно. И, конечно, такое выступление нельзя расценивать как показатель реальных возможностей вокалиста.
@@aivlysregenstern2668 Ob er krank war oder nicht, sollte nicht berücksichtigt werden. Es kann nicht nachgewiesen werden, dass seine Leistung besser gewesen wäre. Seine Krankheit überhaupt zu erwähnen, ist es ein Beurteilungspotential, das nie gezeigt wurde. Das ist die Erhebung eines bloßen Menschen zu Gott. Wenn es bessere Leistungen gibt, als er nicht krank war, dann lass diese für ihn sprechen - nicht die Annahmen von Leuten, die ihn noch größer haben wollen, als er ist.
Do you want to be funny with Dimash? Do you want to gain prominence with Dimash ?. I have been to a concert by him, and I can tell you that I liked his songs more Live from him. What are you trying to do?. You don't know about sacrifice and talent. Do you think that Igor Krutoy, a Russian billionaire and a great world composer, was returning from his retirement because of a guy who doesn't sing anything? Of course you are going to fall for Dimash fans. Funny.
Have you watched the video ? He said that Dimash was a great singer and was as talented as Pavarotti. What are you angry about ? Dears are angry at people praising him. As a fellow Dear, I don't understand🤷🏼♀️
@@wingsofpegasus Of course I understood the video. I think the one who has not understood is you Dimash. I don't know if "Absolute Ear" sounds to you. Well, Dimash has that natural gift. What is the Absolute Ear? It consists of the ability to identify the height of a certain tone from any instrument or sound without any reference. That together with the vocal range he handles, the practice, the talent and the obsessive training to sound his best make Dimash a musical phenomenon that you can't even compare with anyone. If you ever go to a live concert you will find that it sounds amazing and maybe better than on his recordings. Greetings.
I do not understand why you picked the first video of Dimash accapela where he was heavily sick for proving he was not on pitch? Of course he was not. It was not fair not to mention this in the video.
It was just because it's an isolated vocal, full songs don't work. Music is not a competition so there's nothing unfair or fair about it, if anything it shows how good he is if he was ill and still sang so well!
The guy allready sounds extraordinary good naturally. Why would you make him sound like stupid robot ? Producers, just stop doing that to the music, please.
One thing to keep in mind is that classical musicians, especially singers and string players, tend to gravitate toward what is know as “just intonation” for the given key they are in. This means certain notes (mainly 3rds, 6ths, etc., though not octaves or 5ths generally) are mathematically more in tune for that key, but would be more out of tune than usual in the context of some other key. Pitch meters are almost always measuring the compromise of equal temperament (which modern pianos are typically tuned to), in which every scale or key is equally out of tune. So when a pitch meter says someone is out of tune, sometimes the pitch meter itself is just wrong, because it’s expecting the note to be slightly out of tune, and will say it’s off when in fact it is perfectly in tune within the context of a given scale. A second thing is that not all pianos and particularly not all orchestras tune to A=440. So if everything is sharp or everything is flat, it could be that the pitch meter just wasn’t calibrated to the pitch center the music is being played at. Similarly, singers and instrumental soloists may intentionally exaggerate pitch fluctuations (particularly sharpness) to produce emotional effects. That said, nobody is perfect, and particularly in quick notes or big leaps, accuracy is often pretty spotty. But it might still sound in tune because the pitch isn’t actually staying the same, there are slides, glissandos, portamento into or out of a note. So at some point in there it may go through the correct pitch, and in combination with vibrato, it may sound correct even if very little of the time actually hits the pitch. While you’re right that it would be terrible to pitch correct something that a singer can almost never hit, the reality is usually more like correcting some of the natural fluctuations and mistakes in a given take. Meaning notes which the singer hits 9 out of 10 times perfectly, but happened to miss in this particular take. The usual alternatives would be to do 100 takes until one is absolutely perfect from beginning to end, or else record a few takes, then edit them together to remove any flaws from the main take by replacing those bits with that part of some other take where that mistake didn’t occur. Sometimes a bit of pitch correction is quicker and easier and more seamless than editing in the note from another take or recording 50 more takes.
Good points. It's very true. Guitarists and other non classical musicians live with imperfect pitches but there's really no other way to play in different keys. All one has to do is listen to someone like Steve Vai playing with an orchestra to realise that something's not right.
I can't speak for Autotune, but the pitch correction plugins that comes with the Reaper DAW and TC Helicon's vocal pitch correction gear all alow the selection of the key as well as a chromatic option.
You saved me a whole lot of writing! As a fan of Pavarotti's, I can say that he often sings microtonally sharp, producing a very characteristic "bright" sound. It may also be that it helps him to cut through the sound of the orchestra better. Note that in the clip. the piano note was very flat in comparison to Pavarotti, but after playing the note Pavarotti made no attempt whatsoever to tune to that note. (Or if he was tuning to it, he was maintaining the same "sharpness" relative to that note.)
You bring to my mind , this wierd phenomena that has developed in this studio music . The sound engineers have a habit of blanket auto tuning . I guess what I'm saying is , rather than touch up the one or two out of tune notes in a studio performance. The engineer simply coats the whole performance in auto tune . My thinking is , it's simply engineers being repetitive in their editing job , in essence . Doing the same process over and over in a job .
Has Dimash ever recorded Mes a Mi, the aria with all the high Cs? I would love to compare them back to back. That said, Dimash wins hands down on range and versatility, but I give Pavarotti the edge on timbre.
For more amazing ‘Dimash uses his hands to help him tune’ examples, look at his most recent drop of SCREAMING (2021 DIGITAL CONCERT). So many fantastic nuanced hand movements 🙌🏼👌🏼
Ah autotune, the art of making everyone sound the same. Also the reason why i barely listen to anything released after 1997 or so. Give me a singer with their own vocal colour and flaws please and thank you.
Yes, Angelina is a very young talent that doesn't need auto-tune. Here she sang "crazy" live when she was twelve years old. I know it's not auto-tuned because in other parts of the concert you notice she's slightly off pitch at some point. th-cam.com/video/gF183Y1OQlo/w-d-xo.html But unfortunately I think they apply auto-tune as well on her studio-produced stuff now.
Yeah i've seen a little, angelina is way, WAY too into her superfluous gratuitous vocal licks/runs/fills for my liking. Just because you can show it off, doesn't mean you have to every time there's a note held for more than half a second
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Yup. Perfect pitch is the ability to remember notes - and hearing them in your head, like you can picture a house in your head - just like remembering e.g. colours, and therefore being able to identify a note by name when they hear it without the need of an external reference pitch. Singing a note perfectly on pitch, on the other hand, is the result of mastering all the muscles involved in singing to reproduce the note you hear or think of. So it's not unusual for people with perfect pitch not being able to sing on pitch. It's as if I would show you a colour, you would probably be able to identify it correctly, but if I gave you a painters palette with a range of colours, you would probably not be able to reproduce the exact colour by mixing the available colours, unless you had mastered the art of colour blending.
No, it doesn’t, but obviously if somebody DOES have perfect pitch, and is also a singer, having perfect pitch will help them hit notes correctly, because they can tell when they are wrong. This is particularly the case when singing a cappella. A singer with perfect pitch doesn’t need a reference note from an instrument to know where to pitch their voice.
Great analysis, man. I think most of this generation artists use pitch correction. Actually, I think Dimash doesn't even need it cause I have seen him live singing SOS without a mic. Man, he sounds the same, which our ears can't even tell he isn't pitch-perfect or not. That how good he is. So doing such a great job with the extremely wide vocal range that he has, and even sings in many genres, I believe he is the greatest or the most talented vocalist. Can you do this type of video of him without autotune to see how he does on the stage? There are videos of him singing without music.
@@AlfredoEClark Dimash is a high note artist as Vitas once was. Their audience are craving for higher and higher notes and a "perfectness" that doesn't exist in human voices. They are marketed with alien capabilities.
@@yogajedi3337 That is a misudnerstanding statement. Do more research. Also, you probably only watched his Igor Krutoy's performances, because the composer forbid Dimash to sing his songs live.
Its simple, isn't it. 'perfect pitch' is relative in the context of the unadulterated human voice. Its absolute in the context of derivative technology. Now that we have an instrument to measure accurately, we should ditch that whole 'perfect pitch' narrative and only reference 'nearly perfect pitch in the unadulterated human voice.
Glad someone has called his music out. I knew something was off hearing his music "live". I may not be able to tell what tune is playing but I can definitely pick up when something isn't natural. It's weird but my ears can feel the sounds not just hear them. When I hear auto tune it feels like nails scratching on the chalkboard.
In fact, these are all words. To understand what an artist is worth, you need to attend his concert. I also thought that I would go to one concert and it would be enough for me .. But no ... I want to listen to this voice and this singing again and again .. Maybe that's why people, having visited his concert once, then constantly go to all his concerts.
Thank you!! An absolutely fascinating deep delve into auto tune and pitch correction (and the disservice it does to both established artists and up and coming singers). I totally agree with you that it is a great shame that a singer like Dimash gets autotuned (by others!!!) when he doesn't need it. His natural voice is beautiful and incredible enough. We are so used to thinking that spot on note perfection is the goal, when in fact it is expression and emotional connection that most of us are searching for. Sadly many producers just don't get it. Personally I think it is due to needing a very technically oriented mind to be a sound engineer or producer. Their nature is to strive for technical perfection. Emotion is frequently ignored and vocal errors cannot be allowed. It's all ironed out. I worked for many years with a creative as a producer and he wasn't like that. He had arguments with other producers and sound engineers over what to leave in, what to correct and what to change in a studio take. He internally 'knew'when a take was the right one, because it touched him emotionally. It was sometimes a take that others would easily have thrown out. He always said for him the perfection was in the imperfection. Everyone can sing perfectly with today's technology, so what is the difference between you and everyone else if you simply copy that? Humans are not perfect! Imperfections in the singing wake you up, they make you listen, they break through the barriers. Leave them in and connect fully.
Dimash is not your opponent so you don't have to be jealous. Even Pavarottide is not his opponent. Relax, sit back. If her fans say she's perfect, she is. Ear is their heart. Note: I understood that you were jealous from the song you chose.
Music is not a competition, this is an analysis of auto-tune which is purely objective as I'm showing the waveforms, I'm not manipulating the waveforms in any way they are 100% accurate.
I heard Fil say more than once that Dimash has an incredible voice. The reason he chose to use both Pavarotti and Dimash for this educational video was because of the high volume of viewers that had requested them. This was simply an analysis of both singers without auto tune and with auto tune...just happens that Pavarotti doesn’t seem to use auto tune. I cannot see how you read jealousy into this analysis 🧐
@@wingsofpegasus imperfect humans as we all are, cannot do anything perfect or create any gadget perfectly. We all miss the mark. You must know that, because you are a guitarist, singer, songwriter etc. Just enjoy and appreciate others' hard work and achievements, which I know you do. Don't let others pressure you to analyse.
I wonder, if you analyzed Demash’s 2017 version of SOS in the singer competition- auto is not used, not allowed- his pitch accuracy was insane. Do a graph.
@@Bpg5012trick Hmm... This example used is also a stand alone song. Dimash sang this SOS as an ONLY song at the Slavic Bazaar event on that evening. It was not his concert but a TV concert (live broadcast) with many artists performing one after another. Hence everyone had to sing prerecorded/playback.
@@paivyt. that's what I thought, every time I listen to the Slavic basar version. It's the same version from his music sampler I have.. And Dimash never sings SOS the same, only they took the recorded version. It's pretty obvious as well, bc his mic position in the end does not match his other performances. But I heard one other of those concerts he could not sing life, bc a political member was in the audience, at least that's what people say. I don't care, but I'm always amazed if he sings songs differently, but that doesn't mean there's no pitch correction 🤔.
Where you pointed out pitch correction, the vibrato was ranging a half step above AND below the note. In the live performance, his vibrato ranged only over a half step with the bottom of the vibrato often being almost directly on the note which is probably why it doesn't jump out as incorrect...his own version of "auto tune"?
Wow - your explanation of Dimash's autotuned recordings really, really hit home with me! I always felt his voice is too mechanical. But your explanation of how autotune is used in his recordings made me explore more of his live performances, and now I see how wonderful he is. What a shame that these engineering tools are abusing singers' talents.
Watched your whole video. Saw your comparisons and maybe I'm just not familiar enough with the subject, but based on your own comparisons and arguments presented here your conclusions don't seem very well supported. If anything your comparison of allegedly real Dimash looks extremely close to the alleged autotuned version. Mostly it seems like just a stylistic difference in songs that I notice (the "real" one has a completely different tonal flow, a far more eastern note progression and variance vs the SOS song which seems to be much more hit on targeting a common pitch). Both seem equally consistent just with a different flow. It really feels like you cherry pick the allegedly too on pitch parts and ignore the parts that aren't. I get that the argument is pitch correction is deliberate so maybe only applied to certain parts, but that's also convenient in that it doesn't have to stand up to the scrutiny of being consistent. You say it's a switch when the data could just as easily back up the argument of a stylistic choice instead. To proclaim so confidently I would expect far more compelling of arguments and far more comparisons, ideally targeting something much closer in style for one where you'd expect a very different result. Are some his recordings/performances autotuned, I have no clue and I have no skin in the game. Though honestly your video comparing the two just convinced me it was far more likely that that SOS wasn't autotuned actually with how similar in form it is to the previous one if different in pitch progressions and goals. Other food for thought. Every few years strong men beat old records. Lifting things heavy than ever recorded before. This is the case in nearly every athletic pursuit, sport, etc. Players of instruments often achieve things never done before. Guitarists attempting to break new bounds with what can be done with speed, accuracy, and precision. Why would this not be the case with vocals? Showing something that seems too difficult to be real isn't proof of anything. Sure it raises questions, but isn't proof and you really would need to do a lot more comparisons with his various performances to establish any sort of justifiable conclusions and it's a bit disingenuous to make such bold confident claims with such little presentation to back it up. I get that isn't nearly as click bait friendly and probably doesn't get as many views or requires a lot more time and effort, but integrity has those costs.
You can't argue with waveforms! Don't worry, there are professional producers who watch the channel who have stated the application has actually been poorly done, because it is heavy handed. One you're used to auto-tune, you can hear it's distinct traits wherever it's used.
@@wingsofpegasus I respect the response and again this is not my area (though I am in a field where I analyze a variety of data for various uses) but of course you can argue with waveforms. You presented data. You claimed this data must be X because it must.... because there's no way a human can do that. Do you see the issue with that? That's like saying someone hit too many precise shots in a video game so they must be botting. Except you need to prove that the data can't be reproduced any way but naturally. So if you're confident I assume you have a large sampling of data to back these assumptions up right? Guessing countless videos showing humans trying to reproduce these waveforms and being unable to and countless videos showing the creation of these artificial waveforms. Certain humans at certain times can do things that exceed or match what a computer can. Again going back to that aim thing. I've been playing shooters on PC for 20+ years and I've been accused of aimbot countless times (and I'm not even a pro or anything) and I've never used it. Some of my plays look like it's artificial because there are times or days where I outperform myself compared to others. Further I find your A B comparisons extremely different in style and tonal progression. I'd expect more comparable ones. For example maybe a few "real" SOS performances compared to "fake" ones etc. I'm not saying this isn't autotuned, just that your data and explanation is extremely weak. You have the start of a hypothesis and premise but you have to do a LOT more work to back it up to any degree of confidence. Just don't present something as more than what it was. What I see is "Look the room got cold and our magnetism meter went off the scale that must be a ghost!"... You have to prove to a high degree of confidence that those waveforms what you say they mean. Otherwise don't pretend to do a data driven argument, it's really just your personal ear and assumptions and eyes and assumptions. Which isn't bad, just don't pretend it's more.
@@M4ttNet Even without the waveform analysis an experienced ear can hear that it is auto tuned/corrected. This analysis is an objective exercise that proves it. But as we can see throughout this comment section Dimash fans just will not believe it. They imagine that he is one of those "certain humans at certain times" who is the exception. This is not the case at all. Dimash's trademark is the extremely high notes that he seemingly pops out effortlessly. These notes are always auto tuned and with added reverb etc. His real voice lies in the high tenor range and I would describe it as a typical "lightweight" pop voice. He is not even in the same league as a true lyric tenor like Pavarotti. This is just my opinion but I think it is a good one since this is my field.
Why didn't you use a live version of S.O.S, to show if it also uses Autotune live? Or you could use the song Opera 2, where there are very long notes, so your analysis would be more valued.
@@noellemorel7280 No, it wasn't autotuned. There is a spectral analysis of it. In this video the difference between autotuned and not is explained, among other things. Why are you always presenting your assumptions as facts? th-cam.com/video/TgmbhMmhSj0/w-d-xo.html
Opera 2 has a spectral analysis here (the most accurate vocal analysis available today), and among other things it addresses the autotune issue. Also on the same channel you will find a spectral analysis of another SOS version. th-cam.com/video/TgmbhMmhSj0/w-d-xo.html
"Perfectionism is the satin lined casket of creativity and originality"-unknown. However, we can strive for it, in order to get better. . But the saying is that, progress is better than perfection. I mean singing (any art) is not equivalent to building a airplane engine (where perfection is needed) And I've noticed that the best (in a creative way), are kind of imperfect-which is different from just good enough. Sure, PERFECT is real, but not only are there many correct, but different ways to do something, perfectionism has it's contained place in life -it gives you the drive, but is it the end all?. And once you think you have reached it, you probably can do better and/or someone has done better (subjective). Such a deep concept to understand
Can you analyze Dimash in these clips where there is HD isolation (I don't know what that is...) ? 'Adagio' th-cam.com/video/8xuzMAyNgcU/w-d-xo.html and 'Autumn Strong' a capella style: th-cam.com/video/WNs0nIVaaBI/w-d-xo.html
its true, i dont want to listen to dimash, or want to ever like him, just because i can blatalntly hear all the times he has been autotuned. I cant get it out of my head. He is not a singer I want to listen to.
I was raised musically with a different definition of "perfect pitch" To me, someone with perfect pitch has the ability to HEAR a song on the radio walk over to a piano or other instrument and play it back almost to perfection with no expectation of hitting every note vocally. Perfect pitch is the ear to the brain not the brain to the vocal chords. Human vocal chords are subject to too many variables to be accurate every time. We're human.
Yes, once you hear a reference pitch or get started singing, all you need is a good sense of relative pitch. Perfect pitch is hearing a particular note out of context and being able to say what note it is. In fact to make this distinction clearer, most musicians I know of refer to it as “absolute pitch” not “perfect pitch”. Nobody I know has used the term perfect pitch for many years. When it comes to singing or playing in tune, we just say… playing in tune, not that they have perfect pitch.
@@matthewv789 thank you for your reply. You explained it far better.my cousin was was a walking musical note. He had the ability in spades and song any genre. For me it was 14 years of The Royal Conservatory of Music working like heck so I could try to convince examiners that I knew what I was doing.
Yes it's definition does seem to vary, as it seems to be used to describe vocalists who are very accurate pitch wise. But in a less broader 'public' sense I would refer to absolute pitch as hearing a note and identifying it, and/or producing a note with no reference. I think the latter is why people associate it with vocalists.
@@wingsofpegasus When Dimash was first labelled to having perfect pitch by his music teachers, it had nothing to do with his voice or his singing. It was actually when he was learning piano at the age of 5 where he later was a champion in a piano competition. I think, his fans who heard about this story associate the "perfect pitch" with his vocals because well you know why.. I guess. At the age of 5, he was able to hear if something was actually off pitch even when others couldn't hear it. It was a story from his grandmother when she was interviewed which was actually in regards of his hearing the piano, not his singing. I think the fans picked up on that and thats when the story of pitch perfect singing started. I mean, we've heard many singers who sings good when live and many don't realize they are sometimes off pitch but we rarely hear people call them pitch perfect. I've heard Dimash singing without those pitch corrections or auto tune during his live concerts and I agree his voice is not always perfect even to the ear but I dare say that he is one of the best out there.
@@wingsofpegasus Rick Beato does a few vids {search Rick Beato son perfect pitch on here} in which he shows that his son has what he calls perfect pitch, being able to hear a note or run of notes on a piano and know what note he started on and the progression, I'm not sure if its necessarily being able to repeat that note perfectly, but perhaps to hear a song on the radio and know what key it is in.
i remember Paul Gilbert once said ' if you can't play it live don't record it', and he was talking about all the punch-ins and digital ways of merging and consolidating various regions together to get a fine track
This guy again lol?! Talked shit about Dimash in the past and now get him in a comparison?! Come on get a life dude, try to be at least 10% like him in term of singing before judging him - the greatest singer alive ok?!
@@noellemorel7280 Robot singing?! You are full of hate dude lol 🤣 and you know nothing about Dimash i can tell, i as a fan went to his concert and heard lots of his rehearsals, i'm telling u he's maybe not perfect, everybody in this world aint perfect but i can't deny that his pitch and skills are absolutely brilliant, keep hating on him boy, hope it make u feel better lol 😂 people whom dont have a chance to listen to him live always say that Dimash needs autotune (like the guy in the video) people just can't accept the truth that somebody is that good, with or without autotune, Dimash still slays it like usual, that's all! His talent is real, not like other Europe singers whom can only sound good in the studio :)))
You are using a fans made isolation that has been post processed by the third party creator (creative mente) to analyse, not the original version, and then claim Dimash uses autotune? How silly is that just for click baiting?
I don't understand the obsession with "perfect". Music is kind of a collective (pretty sure that isn't the right word) thing. It's how everything sounds relative to everything else. If you go to an open mic where the piano is a few cents off you tune to the piano. The one guy that insists on using his tuner is now wrong even though he's right. I hear stories about which take was used on older recordings. There is no take anymore, what ends up on the recording is a bit of every take plus some that wasn't in any take. Saw David Gilmore make a comment in the film Echoes when they stopped him playing to adjust stuff, "a little feedback never hurt anyone" or something like that. Just let the musicians play lol.
Really depends on what people view as perfect. If someone sings or plays terribly out of tune nobody wants to hear it. No matter how great the message is, it would be like reading Shakespeare but every other word is misspelled. But that's why you practice like crazy to become great at it and at that point the imperfections that happen make it even more great. If a note in a very tumultuous passage is slightly off or very rough in sound, it makes it 10 times better for me.
Dimash can sing live and a really great singer, auto tune or not, doesn't matter for me., is his team choice, Great singer can be auto tune, but bad singer do need auto tune, and they can not sing live, may by one song or two, good one may be can sing 90 min. concert, but Dimash can sing 3 hours live concert without problem, nobody is perfect, but Dimash is my favorite singer at this not perfect world time right now.
Just wanted to make a point. If you are a bad singer. Not even auto tune will make you sound good. You have to be at least a good singer for people to take notice that you can really sing. Sure auto tune can make even a very very young kid sound like his/she is on pitch, but they still don't sound like someone you'll want to listen to. The whole point of this video is to let people know that auto tune is used on most everyone at times. I was introduced to an engineer who showed me exactly how to know if someone is auto tuned or not using a graph like the one shown hear. I learned though, that if an engineer in post editing knows what he's doing not even the best ears can tell a great singer is being pitch corrected unless they can see the graph.
One thing about Dimash is that he sings constantly. All of the time. And anyone who has listened to him and follows him has heard him over and over and over again singing perfectly live and not auto tuned. I do not know why anyone has chosen to do this to Dimash. From what he has said in the past, it is hard to believe that he is o.k. with this. He has worked way to hard every day of his entire life not to want to be heard naturally. His voice is amazing and unmatched. And it is that way when there has been no alterations. Thank you
It's the bitterness. And obviously being defensive. This was a pathetic attempt at "analyses". So many things wrong in this analysis. Comapring Pavarotti warming up vs Dimash singing an actual song then comapring that song to a completely different song. This was a bias analysis to support his perspective. I unsubscribed for this reason. I thought this guy was legit but being defensive takes away his merit.
@@dcazador7401 instructive how? is he teaching us about auto tuning? what is he illustrating here exactly? cause based on his intro, it's a lot about Dimash. Not sure exactly what his point is?
@@ameladolnz7784 did i argue that? his comparison to Pavarotti clearly has undertones. whether intentional or not. but it's clear he's being defensive on his previous statements about Dimash. he could have chose a different artist to illustrate the difference between a natural singing voice vs autotune, let's say Taylor Swift. then his point is clear about autotune. you don't need two artists to illustrate it. else, it will be about comparing those two artists. he's almost implying that Dimash "autotunes" which discredit the fact that Dimash has something special and unique,; and discredits Dimash vocal ability. he's not saying that directly, but what was his point of "this" analysis exactly?
There is an isolated vocals SOS video from 2016 called "Dimash SOS A capella." I'd love to see a video analyzing his notes there. Would be so interesting!
Thanks, I'm a Dimash fan and I think that it was very interesting. It's sad that nowadays autotune is becoming a reflex and automatically applied even when it's not needed at all ! Dimash really doesn't need it. He is naturally great and all the fancams of him singing backstage or at airports to his fans are proves of his talent.
Dimash's natural voice, did sound at times a little bit sharp, so I could understand why they would want to pitch correct some notes, but I agree, to blanket autotune a naturally good voice is never a good mastering decision. It's bad for the artist, and for the consumer. It sounds terrible and not at all natural.
A big question that I have regarding Auto-Tune is what the notes are that the processing snaps to. I get the impression that they're being snapped to the notes as defined by equal temperament, which isn't how real people sing, and certainly not how they harmonize. In our modern mechanistic times we've sort of developed this notion that notes are specific frequencies, like an A is an A and it's 440 Hz. But music isn't about specific frequencies; it's about intervals: thirds, fifths, sevenths, etc, and there are various ratios that can legitimately (and mathematically) be considered valid for each. And one of the main tasks of players of continuous-frequency instruments, such as violins, is to select which intervals to use. This is an artistic decision, to go with a narrow third or a wide third in a particular spot, and part of being a great musician is making good choices for these. If you're singing harmony, you're likely going to go for a note that is a particular interval away from the lead voice, because that's the point of what you're doing and the focus of attention, even though that will likely be "out-of-tune" to the equal-tempered scale. And I can remember a voice teacher of mine instructing me in certain songs to sing certain notes a little sharp, because it was more important to preserve the intervals of the melody than to match the notes of the piano accompaniment. So anyway, just wondering how all of this, which seems such an important aspect of natural music-making, fits in with Auto-Tune.
I think this is part of the reason why to my ears auto-tune is so obvious, as it is snapping notes to a scale requested, tuned at 440hz. It's methodical and absolute using equal temperament, maybe that will change as technology advances.
Ah!! So it IS done on exactly equal intervals? This is what I'm hearing also, then. I asked almost the same question on a different video on this channel (nowhere near as eloquently as you did). On that video, comparing Freddy Murcury tuned to untuned, it was obvious. I think perhaps an ear experienced in years of live harmony singing hears auto-tune very easily (and detrimentally) for this reason. It mostly sounds flat and lifeless, with no sparkle. That's why I rarely buy recorded music any more. I thought I was just getting old fashioned or something, not liking so many new artists. But perhaps it's just the canned auto-tune. :-((( Thanks for asking this question!
Why do good singers allow their songs to be auto-tuned if it makes them sound less authentic? If our ears love to hear real voices, why ido they do this????
If the intervals between notes are consistent, it will still sound good to the ears even if it isn't technically right on the modern standard for the notes. That's how an orchestra can tune to match the piano (which may or may not be perfectly in tune) and sound wonderful even if the whole orchestra is now a bit off from the objective standard. This is why the second Dimash sample still sounds good.
Just to let you know, Dimash was really sick with the flu during the acapella performance used as the first example. He was supposedly coughing blood just before getting on stage, but wanted to give his fans something little since he couldn't perform properly that day.
@@wingsofpegasus No, that shows me, what you're trying to do - to provoke. This is not a random choice. You just need movement on your account, that's all.
@@katyasteinke7021 I wish I had the time to endlessly search out videos, but I don't. That's why I just rely on people's links that they send me, they don't give me any background information, just a link. Exactly as has happened on this comment! Read the pinned comment.
@@wingsofpegasus It's still essential to critique the examples used in analyzes. The context is important. I've made a scientific analysis also, judging the material/source is a basic principle. There are plenty of examples, if you were seeking Dimash's acapella or without mic singing. But if you were seeking where Dimash is also out of tune - that's rather difficult to find:):) Fans might have known some... Anyway, the least would be, to set things right in analysis. An artist singing very sick is not how the person normally sounds; there is no comparison and it should be mentioned. I wonder if that person who gave you the link about Dimash singing badly sick knew what he was doing... Just a constructive feedback. You explain things clearly, I like that. This subject really is relevant in our times... It's unfortunate that for many, live human sound is not respected as it should be.
@@dearm7678 you obviously missed arch Stanton's point. It might help to not take personally someone else's opinion about someone you admire. Just a thought. ✌
@@archstanton1628 You whant to hear Dimash sing? You can. Check this link th-cam.com/video/nAQOLe9mKsc/w-d-xo.html If Dimash can't sing than Bocelli and Lara Fabian can't sing. But i can name many more.
I'm a Dimash fan and love your explanations, it's always good to learn something, in this case, how things work in a studio. And forget about the negative comments and abuse. It's sad but there are some 'Dearzillas' around who don't represent him or the rest of us. Good job mate!
Why didn't you, Fil, tell people, that you chose video with singing of sick Dimash, when he barely could sing? If you are so pedantic, why aren't you pedantic with everything? It's unfair
@@wingsofpegasus yes,I understand that there are no so many of such videos. But , I think, you should mention that Dimash is singing here being sick. I think, it's important important detail. Of course, it's my opinion
@@wingsofpegasus this is all you can find? Really? I am sorry it can't be true. This video is not easy to find, if you search Dimash accapella - many videos pops out but not this one
@@noellemorel7280 have you any doubt? th-cam.com/video/hTEujE0T55U/w-d-xo.html To laugh at ill person is not right. Have you any person to tell you that?
OK,OK, But there is more to performances than just singing. I know that sounds strange, but it's true. People watch and LOVE Dimash for the whole package. Number 1 is that he is such a phenom singer with his RANGE. Second, he sings with such EMOTION more than anyone else and third he is one of the NICEST, KINDEST person you will ever meet. AGAIN, IT"S THE WHOLE PACKAGE on why he is loved so much.
Maybe it's just a phenomenon of the times we now live. Older generations grew up in the analog age, with records and tapes. With all the "mistakes" singers and musicians make. To us, autotune music sounds sterile, because the "mistakes" also convey emotions. Today's generation is growing up in a digital, sterile world, ever larger parts of life are artificial and are becoming virtual. Autotune fits in perfectly with this time. As soon as AI also compose the music, there will be no more wrong notes - but also no emotions.
My thoughts exactly. The rawness of music from the 50s and 60s is what gives it that distinctive sound and it made every youngster feel that it was within their reach, at least to some extent, which added massively to its appeal. The sterility you describe extends to such things as photoshop, where celebrities (and others) make themselves look perfect with unachievable, unrealistic body shapes and appearances - and end up looking like plastic dolls devoid of personalities.
Hace poco creativemente explico en su ultimo video de dimash screaming en Bejin que el autotune es dificil en dimash ya que usa mucho vibrato y muchos cambios de tonos, que quedaria fatal , esta el video en youtube
As a major fan of Dimash, thank you for your video. I must say: I heard Dimash live in NY and he was SPECTACULAR - with unmatched range, beauty of voice, quick recovery between songs, etc. - a vocal powerhouse - who greatly impressed my friend who had never heard him before. People should realize that good producers use every tool in their arsenal to 'polish' a product EVEN when it's unnecessary. As a painter EVERY printer I used ALWAYS tried to 'polish' reproductions of my paintings by 'upping' this color or that - according to their liking, industry standards, etc. The only way to completely control your product from beginning to end is to be both the 'originator' AND the 'producer'. Usually impossible. Dimash has great producers - who mostly get their 'calls' right - but maybe sometimes they overdo autotune. But at Dimash's concerts (without autotune) thousands of his fans go absolutely wild over his beautiful singing. No matter what - he's the greatest. (And yes - that's my opinion.)
Hi, I was also at Dimash’s concert in NYC. My husband who wasn’t a fan at the time accompanied me and couldn’t believe how beautiful of a voice he was hearing. Yes, Dimash voice is that SPECTACULAR! We have never heard a voice as delicate and yet as strong as Dimash’s! He’s the real deal when it comes to vocal abilities and true talent. It’s just in IMOP, people can’t seem to come that that realization. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the greatest. Period!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 I sooo agree! We've NEVER seen anyone with his vocal abilities! And have you noticed that he NEVER stumbles or 'mis-steps'?! I mean, he jumps, runs, etc on stage and he never falters. He's a phenomenon and aren't we blessed that we got to see him live?! I'm glad to 'meet' a fellow fan who was also at the same concert! We're fans for life, aren't we?! (And boy did I have a hard time getting to that concert - and at the last minute I had to pay the outrageous price of $!,000 a night for a tiny hotel room!) But it was worth it!! :)
k.gail Yes, I’m definitely a fan and do not consider myself a fanatic as some might address his dears. I’ve always loved listening to music from my youth and still do to this day. Never in my lifetime have I heard someone like Dimash. Of course there are and have been plenty of wonderful artists that I’ve definitely enjoyed. However, I’ve yet to witness someone who has such power and who can also sing as delicate in a moments time, and at their command as Dimash does. IMOP, what’s made other artists so well known and popular, is their songs that were written for them. I honestly believe that Dimash can sing them all, and better. The only critique that I have, is his pronunciation/ enunciation of the English language as much as I hate to admit it. Once he’s able to master that, he’s GOLDEN here in the West. Subsequently, even with that, one can not deny his masterful vocal abilities. His sound, tone, and every other aspect about his voice is astoundingly beautiful and magnificent! I’m sorry to hear that you had such difficulties getting to his concert. I too had a bit myself. I barely had anytime to even rest in my dinky hotel room as I was also on the road which seemed to be a life time of travel. I also agree with you that it was all worth it though. Listening and actually witnessing Dimash sing live is in it self, hard to describe and even comprehend at times. I so now understand why people travel across the globe. He is as unique and is as talented as one can imagine with that gorgeous voice of his. I’d definitely do it all over again and as a matter fact, I can’t wait till I do!!!!!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 You know, it's a mystery how God uses people: In 1981, when I was 25, I had a life-after-death experience where God's angels came and took me to heaven where I stood face to face with Him and Jesus. Fast forward to 2018 when I saw Dimash singing SOS on the Singer show: I was stunned because he looked exactly like the angel who had carried me to heaven and brought me back all those years ago! (In 40 years of me telling my story I've NEVER said such a thing!) So, who really knows?! Maybe he IS the angel, fully capable of singing perfectly pitched notes - or God is simply working through this talented young man.. Either way, Dimash IS a gift from God! (I'm trying to make a full, detailed video of my experience for TH-cam - but it's hard because I'm not so modernly technical!) But anyway that's my story - and why I'm so fascinated with Dimash, besides his out of this world talent.
k.gail Oh dear, I’m so intrigued by your story. I’m so glad to hear that your ok. Thank God! It must of been wonderful in the sense, that you saw Jesus and the beautiful angel, that took you from your most unfortunate death experience, to whom would give you life again. I too often wonder, if God does use individuals here on earth in specific ways that we can’t foresee. I’ve often heard the phrase, that miracles happen every day and what your sharing appears to have been one of them. I’m sure you will never forget, this moment in your life, and that your memory of it, will most likely never diminish. So, perhaps the angle that you saw and that appeared to look like Dimash, may have been who you recall seeing. Dimash does have beautiful traits. I don’t think anyone can argue that! Many actually have compared him to an angel expressing their emotions while listening and watching him sing. I have to admit, I’ve had thoughts myself with my own admiration of him. He (Dimash) does certainly display astounding and pure loving characteristics that are difficult to understand or resist. Anyway, I’m so happy that your alright, and you my dear have been blessed in so many ways! I also thank you for sharing this personal experience with me. I too feel blessed some how. 🙏🏻
The past: NO Auto-tune, some of the very BEST vocalists of all times. Now: TOO MUCH Auto-tune, most times for NO REASON, many people NOT connecting to music like they used to- and always talking about how awesome, "Older Music" is. And you nailed it with one word, WHY: "EXPRESSION". Experience, feelings, emotions, life, are all involved in the way an artist will EXPRESS their music. And all reside OUTSIDE "Perfection"- so our ears, and our brains, RELATE, & ENJOY what we're hearing. And I said it last time- It's their DNA, their FINGERPRINT. Auto-tune robs us of this- As an "effect"? Yeah, ok. Pitch correction to fix very small mistakes, made during a great performance? No problem. But to use it, again, as I said last time, just to make someone SOUND perfect? IMO, ruins music. I want to hear Ann Wilson? As Ann Wilson, not as "Ann Wilson +". The "Imperfections" are what MAKE HER a GREAT SINGER. Because I can RELATE to her Expression of her MUSIC. I give you massive Kudos for tackling this again Fil. When you begin to "mess" with peoples favorite performers? They do NOT hear the truth in what you're saying, they hear what they WANT to hear- which, to them, not really understanding everything involved with Auto-tune, sounds like an ATTACK- and they stop paying attention at that point, lol. All you're doing, is pointing out facts & truth- it's up to them to accept it all- many times a very difficult proposition, indeed, lol.
Some of your comments remind of when someone tried to digitally remaster Jimi Hendrix. The clean sound was rejected, and they had to put some of the original "imperfections" back.
I've seen a couple of other music commentators talk about this. I think it's partly the fact that some music (not all, but some) before the 2000's delivered a more direct emotional connection, but also...honestly...(old fart talking here!) "kids these days"..have more open minds about different kinds of music. At least, the 20-somethings that I know do.
You should compare the live sound of the LIVE, rather than deliberately distorting or misleading unsuspecting people to think that Dimash singing uses automatic tuning to improve your own discussion. Such an act of disrespect for a truly capable musician.
The video is quite clear and not misleading in the slightest, it's showing the difference between a natural vocal waveform and an auto-tuned one. For the software an isolated vocal is required, meaning no instruments, so I just can't take any live performance as I explain in the video. I don't say anywhere that Dimash needs auto-tune, in fact I say the opposite and in the video title I'm referring to him as a great singer!
Thanks for the non-auto tuned snippets of Pavarotti and Dimash! Both so impressive. May I just point out that the first Dimash clip was sung in mandarin chinese, which relies on tonal changes per word in order to have a meaning… If he held the note without flexing up or down in tone, he would be singing a different word from what the lyrics need… The second clip was probably in a non-tonal language. The SOS clip, sounds so nice. You could be right that it’s processed. Though Dimash sings all those songs live as well.
The more I think of this analysis, the faultier I see it. In fact, to compare Dimash's voice with Pavaroti for capacity to hit pitch, that was ok. Where the analysis fails is in "normal vs autotune" Dimash. WoP claims that since "normal" is uneven looking, then the more "perfect looking" notes are pitch corrected (not autotuned, but WoP flips back and forth between these two different practices). Trouble is four fold: 1-"normal" was in fact sick. 2-different octaves don't have same quality 3-different languages have different singing styles 4-WoP recognises that Dimash sick/"normal" pitch is often perfect, then insists that in the French song, because the vibratos are more often perfect, they are pitch corrected, that makes no sense. WoP starts by telling us the difference between autotune and post pitch correction, and then by the end of the video, he's claiming both pitch correction and autotune. Even in sick mode, Dimash's notes were nearly all pitch perfect, yet WoP focuses on the imperfect ones, to make claims. It's such a small snippet. Really not a valid analysis to make grand statements.
Hey! Hey! Hey! Fil, congrats on the 200,000 subscribers 🎉 Thank you for showing us how auto-tune works. It's a very interesting topic. Pavarotti, I love! Dimash, what a voice he has. I didn't know him. Ready to party tomorrow on the Live Stream. Who'll win the guitar? 🖤🤘🏽
You found a hole in the flowerpot. Emotions are what bind us to artists, not perfect sound. An artist is not a machine. Neither is Dimas. But it is special on many levels. Imagine analyzing the great Leonard Cohen. Well that would be grotesque. 🤦🏻
Auto-tune, pitch correction, etc is like watching a sporting event where they do multiple takes to get a perfect play. Imagine watching American football where the wide reciever runs a pattern, but he isn't turn exactly on the lines even though he makes a great play and gets a touchdown. So they redo the play until the wide reciever is always on the lines. It doesn't make the performance any better and it's not reality.
If you get backlash from those hardline infantile fans, ignore them and do what you feel like doing. Your channel. 😊This idol worship of any human is madness and in defence of brother Dimash, who is a Muslim like my turkish relatives, this deity-fying him is hurting him spiritually and him as a Muslim. The main tenent of his religion (same as Cat Steven- Yusuf Islam) is pure monotheism. Worship of one God only. I have seen Dimash beg his irrational fans to stop this nonsense. I understand he is doing his masters in music as his goal is to teach music and leave the big stage at some point. He is still a traditional man so his family and culture will take precedent. Fil, ignore the hard-line fans. All artists have them. 🙄 I saw the same craziness with some Jimi Jamison (RIP) hardline fans going to my videos, other classic 1978 to 1982 Survivors videos and Dave Bickler videos saying he can't sing, he got no soul, no range etc or Survivor wrote great music because of Jimi. The absurd one they said if Jimi had sung Eye of the Tiger, the song would've been a hit. So where were they when it topped the charts in 24 countries and picked up a grammy? 😃 thanks for these great analysis videos 👍
Thank you, Fil. Someone has to hold the line. After all, what's wrong with the truth/reality? In my fine art classes every teacher took the time to point out there are always imperfections in every type of art. And that's what makes it art. Otherwise a machine can just mass produce it.
This is the slavic bazaar performance what's being analized, which is clearly a corrected recording, it was not live in my opinion, too sterile. In the chinese show he performed live, so you are wrong, you don't even recognize which version you are listening to. Great differences between the 2.
Regarding pitch correction, and artists therefore not being able to hit the notes live: That is far from always the case. In many cases, pitch correction/tuning is used to achieve a certain sound, a certain feel. Out of dozens of takes, the producer might choose a particular take where the emotion conveyed by the artist was exactly what they were looking for, but didn't quite manage to hit the correct notes, over other takes where the notes were hit far more accurately, but without the right emotional content. That take would then be pitch corrected, and that would be the end result that is put on the record(this is simplified quite a bit). If they are going for quite a 'pop' feel to the music, then tuning will likely be used, even when the artist is very much capable of hitting the notes, while other types of music will lean towards using it less, if at all. That said, major kudos for actually explaining tuning/pitch correction. Now we just need someone to explain that effects(like reverb) does not equal tuning(as many morons online seem to think, if you see any song or cover, that has any kind of effect added, it will have tons of morons shouting 'auto-tune!!!')
And on a lighter note: I'd like to see someone apply autotune to one of Johnny Cash's performances! He was SOOO far off the mark - if autotune can 'pull' him up to pitch perfect - I just won't believe ANYTHING anymore! LOL (And BTW - Dimash is simply phenomenal.)
@@lindaali6703 LOL! My Dad used to play his records over and over! He had to be the most 'out of tune' singer to ever be famous. I'd LOVE to see what autotune could do for him! Hahaha
@@facetoface-withGod Funny enough I am an old guy but still work out and last night it was to 'The Essential Johnny Cash'. I said to my wife when I had finished he can't have more than 1 octave but it was one of the best CD's I have listened to. I think the secret was he had that rare ability of being able to communicate to your inner soul as opposed to just sing a song .
@@gorse9030 Yes, you are right! Even Dimash has said a person can only have 3 notes to their voice and still sing a beautiful song. Johnny Cash sure had heart and soul, which obviously overshadowed his limited vocal skills. Your comment is a wise one. I was just thinking that Johnny Cash would be a great test for what autotune is truly capable of. LOL
From this analysis, it's inconclusive.. you have two different songs with two different needs.. maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but seems like you can't draw that conclusion with the examples here.
The worst thing about this is once they use auto tune/melodyne on some singer, it doesn't matter how close they were to the note without it, we don't know how much was them doing their part and how much was just the software. People end up assuming the worst when they hear auto tune in a song...
The thing is, excellent musicians can be nearly perfect most of the time, but they all make mistakes. But usually not the same mistakes from performance to performance. The note they flubbed in one take may be perfect in the next 10, but then they’ll mess up some other note those times. Traditionally, final recordings have been crafted from multiple takes edited together, so as to avoid the mistakes in each take. It’s not clear to me how much more “honest” this is than fixing the same problems with pitch correction. It’s one thing when it’s a live concert, when a wrong note goes by and is quickly forgotten, but quite another when audiences hear the music over and over and over from a recording. It’s kind of not fair to the audience experience to make them suffer through those mistakes every time they listen.
@@matthewv789 I would say that at least in one way, the combination from several takes is more “honest” in that at least the singer can actually hit that note. Autotune can snap a note -let’s say-higher than the artist is capable of. And as Fil pointed out, the fans will therefor never hear live what is on the record. Both are a bit of trickery but I don’t mind it for a record-and as you say, maybe we don’t want to hear a mistake over and over. Still I’d rather hear a mistake than an autotuned song, especially for a mediocre artist I’d never listen to otherwise. And, on the other hand, Heavily autotuned, recognizable immediately, is enough for me to not give a decent musician a chance. All because of a producer’s choice. You have to be a pretty established successful artist to have control over production. The musicians I love include ones who have been dissed as the worst singers, Eg famously, Bob Dylan, where it’s the poetry and emotion that his fans love; nobody can sing a Dylan song like he can, though thousands have covered his music. Ok with the exception of Hendrix singing All Along the Watchtower which Dylan has said is the best version of the song, it belongs to Hendrix. There is a magical combination of a voice and how that instrument is used along with the song (esp if original) that can make it both simultaneously revered and hated, for a multitude of reasons. Autotune and post production techniques are used to sell the record, and if more then a rudimentary “clean up” is a shitty thing to do to manipulate people to spend money and to believe singers are better than they really are. Autotune is an industry norm now, and it is disappointing to know that even Dimash-who clearly doesn’t need it- has been forced to agree to production manipulation.
@@foxandscout I totally agree with all your points. In the case of one recent artist, I did use some Melodyne touch-ups for two reasons: 1) there were no alternate takes, all the tracks were recorded straight through from beginning to end with no breaks and no re-takes to edit in, and 2) I've heard the musician perform all these pieces other times, and she never makes the same mistake twice. These are all notes she can hit, and her intonation is fabulous 99% of the time (to the extent that lots of people regularly comment on how amazingly good it is), so leaving the few notes out of tune, when she's played them in tune every other time I heard her play the piece, seemed unfairly critical. I always strove to make sure it all sounded natural, with lots of back-and-forth tests, and also leaving lots of microtonal variations in place. (In the end, almost every note that sounds odd in some way in the final version turned out to have sounded exactly like that in the original, unmodified take, so it wasn't my manipulations that made it that way.) Sure it's true that she's unlikely to ever give a live performance that's so uniformly perfect, but every live performance will be 99% perfect, and in each performance, the imperfections will be in different places.
@Just want the Best voice Look, there are like a hundred other videos of her performing live, nobody questions her ability. And there is barely a commercial recording by anyone that isn’t significantly manipulated, I don’t care how many fawning videos talk about how great Adele is (just for example), the chances that Melodyne wasn’t used on even her voice in her commercial studio releases is laughable (not to mention layers of compression, EQ, artificial reverb, de-easing, etc.). Nearly everything that is commercially released, whether pop, rock, or even classical, is edited or manipulated in some way to remove imperfections. Many an artist over the decades (including famous classical musicians) has said “I wish I sounded that good in real life”. Nobody expects live performance to be as polished or flawless as studio recordings, because they never are. Also as I said, in all her other performances of the same pieces she is just as good through 99% of the piece. But one day she might slightly mess up just one note. Another day that note is perfect, and it might be a different note that’s a bit off. This just happens to be a recording with none of the notes messed up, which is the norm for all commercial studio recordings in all genres and has been for many decades.
Este análisis de las voces de Luciano Pavarotti y Dimash Qudaibergen con un analizador digital de la voz es tan coherente como observar las pinturas de Michelangelo Caravaggio y Rafael Sanzio con una lupa binocular y concluir que se notan las pinceladas. 😆😂😆😂😆😂😆
Este señor pone corazones a todo el mundo,da igual lo que digan,solo ve las visualizaciones y los suscriptores.Un vocal coach dijo que Dimash solo usa autotune como adorno en alguna canción,cantando es muy difícil porque usa mucho vibrato en casi todas sus palabras,no se que dice aqui este colega,me borró un comentario.Pronto hara otro video celebrando otros tantos suscriptores,ahora la tiene tomada con Freddy mercury,por las vistas y eso.
![CAMPปลิ้น | EP.82[1/2] แก๊ง 3 สาวเพื่อนซี้บุก CAMPปลิ้นครั้งนี้ห้ามเสียอาการ](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_6WUjXHe1TM/mqdefault.jpg)
I prefer real artists like dimash or Pavarotti to be left without autotune. They really do not need it.
Ditto. Otherwise the future will sound like Cher's first autotuned song
Dimash voice sounds worst than a dying cat, especially on the high notes, it is so nasally, Mike Patton destroys this clown Dimash.
@@singjazzy6697 you mean “dyoubleeve’n’lovaftelove”? 🤖
Ok, I think any objective viewer accepts the facts. This leads to an obvious follow up question: WHY has it become such a standard within the industry that it’s applied to an obvious vocal phenom like Dimash?
I’d love to see you interview a producer or engineer who supports the use of this technology to hear their views. Either way, Fil, this is some of the best stuff you’ve ever done. Thank you.
It's the same as with brickwall limiting, people just do it even though it objectively sounds bad. There's no good reason to do either, yet it almost seems like there's some unknown force that threaten every single engineer or producer into squeezing the life out of musical performances.
I found the explanation of Creactiva Mente (another sound engineer channel that has some videos about the subject) very plausible. He says that the abuse of the autotune effect is based primarily on the industry logic. The most popular songs of the last decade, the most listened to, are plagued with the use of the autotune effect. That is because to the ear and the mind, it's easier to retain a stable and simple sound than a complex and changeable one (like the natural human voice is). He says than in 21 century, in commercial music, for the industry there is a golden word and that is "simplicity": simple melodies, simple rythms, simple voices. What voice can be simpler than a generic and stable one? If you add a simple and catchy melody, there is a high probability that it can easily get stuck in peoples ears and mind. New generations are so used to it that they don't even notice they are listening to an artificial effect.
That is in general. About the two artists mentioned here, Pavarotti sang opera, in many occasions without amplification (but NOT always). Dimash is independent, he has not signed to any label in exclusivity because he wants to keep creative control of his music. In his own solo concerts, they use effects like reverb and delay, but not autotune. I guess that in his presentations in some other venues (Russian tv, Slavic Bazaar, New Wave, etc.), the sound is out of his control.
@@MsLucy4ever Not on New Wave or Russian TV, just on Slavic and in some Chinese productions. You can ask Creactiva Mente.
@@Chabtung You're right. But in Russian TV is worse than autotune IMO, they just use prerecorded tracks
@@MsLucy4ever Yes, but it is not autotuned. Creactiva told me he much prefers Krutoy productions to the Chinese ones, for example, because despite his love of prerecords he doesn't ever mess with Dimash's natural vocals.
It is disturbing when some people can't tell the difference between analysis and criticism, and when they uphold faith over facts.
Sports fans are the worst. So annoying.
Criticism can have two meanings. One literally is analysis in this manner. It isn’t inherently negative.
@@JoeyBoBoey even negative Criticism isn't Bad if its all facts 😂 but it hurts 😂
@@MineCraft-nz9pg
Jajjjjjjjj
A barroom critique, far from the detailed and seriously analyzed reality.
I can't stand an auto-tuned or pitch corrected voice. The part at 25:33, I heard it live in NY, and it was such a shocking moment, because live it sounded so rich, so powerful, so amazing. I remember exclaiming WOW, because I totally wasn't expecting that, based on the version I was used to hearing. In his solo concerts we hear his natural voice (and I prefer fancams to the finished product after). Another note is that even all the fancams and videos you can find on youtube with his unaltered voice, when listening to them it's a wonderful experience, but any speakers or headphones we may have do no justice to how MAGNIFICENT he sounds live. And one more note, he did say in an interview that he's not a fan of altered voices, and that these days anyone can become a singer. He did practice his craft from a young age, and is classically trained. It's really a shame when his raw vocals are put through autotune or pitch correction. Really such a shame! p.s. Another singer who I love, whose real voice we get to hear, is Eva Ayllon from Peru, a living legend. p.p.s. It would be so nice if you could find more unaltered performances from Dimash and include that in a video. :)
Hi Chelsea, thx for the"tip" bringing Eva Ayllon to attention. A bit to my shame I hadn't heard of her before. But that was untill now. What I've seen in just a few short views of one or two live-clips, is what I really love about real great artists: true appreciation of their musicians (and showing it) and true contact with the fans/public (and feeling it). Much like Patti LaBelle, for example, who -like Dimash- is also born on May 24th (only 50 years in between haha). And I am craaaazy of the both of them. Adding Eva doesn't seem like a bad choice at all, lol. So again: muchas gracias Chelsea! :-D
@@sanderdegroot6628 Awwww, thanks so much for your reply and for checking out Eva!! :) I'm overjoyed every time she gains a new fan! In Peru she is HUGE, and recently she received a life time achievement award from the Latin Grammys. But outside of Latin America, she is largely unknown and it's such a shame! Oh totally, as you say, she connects with the audience 100%, and shows appreciation of her musicians throughout the concert (and in real life too). Her singing is superb and so unique. With some performances I melt with the first note! I don't know where you are in this world, but she is having a mini tour in the US right now I think. Patti LaBelle, wow!! I used to listen to soul music and ONLY soul music for a while. I know all the greats. Still one of my favourite singing styles. :)) And holy cow, I didn't know she has the same bday as Dimash. That's awesome! Imagine if they sang something together? Meanwhile, I'm waiting for an Eva Dimash duet to happen. So, Eva was my fave singer, until I discovered Dimash. Now they both are. And... guess who was the only celebrity to attend Dimash's NY concert and post about it on social media? Eva!! I'm waiting for my dream come true to happen.....
Я тоже люблю фанкамы...Только я не понимала в чем причина, почему такое разное звучание..
The part at 25:33 you refer to has been repeated by Dimash many times in performances that are NOT autotuned so I am sure the uploader does not realise this.
In a separate post I included some old links, but he's even more precise now. I also get a bit annoyed at TH-cam reviewers of Ave Maria who think it must be autotuned when, again, there are old videos of him practising those voice techniques perfectly. The other thing about Ave Maria is that he does not wear in-ear monitors, so he has no reference point. In fact, towards the end of Ave Maria there is an aural "marker" for him when you hear a BELL ring for a second, so he knows how much longer is left.
@@remakeit2628 what a clever timing trick. Dimash is just awesome, thanks for sharing.
Oh wow! I'm kind of a Dimash fan, watched loads of reactions to him and this was the best video on him I've seen. Thanks so much for explaining all that and proving your case, as some people really live in denial ;) You also made me realized that similarly to unrealistic expectations towards bodies we also have unrealistic expectations towards voices. That's so sad.
I agree, the Photoshopping of people in photographs is a similar practice to auto tuning or pitch correcting a person’s voice.
P
On a pragmatic note, there is no such thing as a human voice being technically pitched accurately to that of a calibrated musical intrument. You can however find singers who have an ear for excellent pitch meaning they are able to hit very close or on spot of the desired notes more often than others hence why we say they are great singers. Audio wave forms are technical data, not opinion or one's ear. I work for an electronics design and development company in the UK and engage with our electronics design engineers. We've done many audio products so yes, data don't lie. Just our ears are not perfectly calibrated. Dimash is an absolute monster of a vocalist and I've heard him sing in a home video without music, but without a reference point, it can be tricky. But even he says he is human. He sang half of SOS without music in Kazakhstan before his 2017 explosion, at a little venue. While he was very young there, it will give you an idea of his then natural singing voice. Excellent by the way. His range is phenomenal! Problem is the studios are obsessed with autotuning that even the most fantastic singers are tampered with sadly. ☹
You are correct, Sort of. You can “sync” a human voice and a keyboard (synthesizer). I believe David Foster and his “team” have actually done this. I just read a piece in MIT’s Tech journal about a group who are working on a synth that will duplicate perfectly the sound (timbre and all) of any instrument. The Fairlight was step in this direction. By the way, I wasn’t familiar with Dimash and the little I’ve heard is IMOP a freakish sounding voice I find hard to listen to. In tune naturally, imperfectly “in tune” or off key it is the tone, depth and timbre I find weird.
This whole issue is gotten into the realm of absurd.
We have been “fooling” around with the human voice since live performances (teens singing in stairwells, folks warbling in the shower) and since the beginnings of recorded music.
Put a mic on a singer and it’s off to the races so to speak.
Great comment..
Also there are times when you don't want to be pitch accurate such as in bending notes, vibrato and wavering.
@@orlock20 very true. Music in performance or especially recorded is an illusion. As you note (pun intended), there is more to a vocal performance than “pitch.” Timbre, use of falsetto, yodeling ( Mutt Lange discovered that Andrea Corr (The Corrs) could yodel and had her apply that technique to great affect in a hit song “Breathless”).
During the era of the diva, it was all about range and volume then came melisma! How a singer conveys emotion. Overused any of these techniques are annoying and obvious. The problem with Phil’s comparisons is taking singers from entirely different genres and styles each with its own conventions and most importantly, audiences. Pavarotti fronting Queen singing “ Somebody to Love” would be awful (my guess). Freddie Mercury singing a Buble’ song?
seems that differences in the length and form of the Eustachian tube tubes and structure of the cavities in the head may be why some singers seem so able to hit and hold more pleasing tones when they are using their voice, some sort of positive reinforcement is going on
Dimash definitely doesn’t need to be auto tuned the performances are so much more emotional in natural form
Dimash, the singer, is irrelevant. What people are accustomed to hearing is Dimash "the brand," which, whether studio or live, is an auto tuned sound. His fans still believe that what they hear is actually how he sounds, so there is no incentive ($) to stop auto tuning or pitch correction. The fact that Dimash has a great stage presence is, frankly, more important to his handlers than how he sounds. But this is the music industry right now.
@@John_Malloy His fans believe......? They are not that stupid who believe in eye shut down. His concerts has thousands of viweres, thousands of mobile recording him? Have you ever thought that?
His fans could be curious or inteligent? They could check those fancams? I am so tired these type of fame seekers who uses Dimash😐
@@John_Malloy what are u talking abt? Dimash is actually the only artist who is moving the opposite direction of music industry flow, if not so he would have been deservingly a world wide super star by now
@@kaiumuzzaman8709 well said my friend thank u
kaiumuz zaman Thats exactly how I feel.
Wow, their voices are so beautiful without auto tune. I’ve come to the conclusion these excellent singers don’t need it. Let us hear their natural voice! Thanks Fil.
You should check out the singers that make it to the top of the Billboard. How many of them really sing?
Amen.
none?
Yup agree he should do that👍
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼😆😆😆
@@robclark3095 ed sheeran: ahem
As a classically trained musician, my understanding of perfect pitch is nothing to with pitching your voice perfectly -- not about about singing perfectly in tune. It's about recognising a note as e.g. A or F# or being able to pitch a named note in isolation. Someone can sing brilliantly in tune (can pitch perfectly) but be unable to sing an F# to order. And vice versa!
--
Yes that's correct, a lot refer to it as hitting pitches vocally, which is technically not true so I have explained it in other videos 🙂
Ye I can sing A2 and B2 G2 with no references (pretty close to them alteast) but I don't have perfect pitch
Having perfect pitch (in terms of recognizing notes, not necessarily singing them) is not always such a good thing. I have very strong relative pitch sense and it makes me uncomfortable when a guitar string or any other instrument isn’t in tune relatively with itself or other instruments. Imagine someone with perfect pitch trying to play a piano or other instrument that’s even slightly out of tune, and how painful that would be for them?
@@justintime42000 Yes it can be quite frustrating, my Dad had it and he played in an orchestra I remember him commenting about it!
@jinnyfisher4343 Thank you! I, too, am classically trained and came here to say the same thing.
I find this analysis fascinating, I'm not an engineer or musician, just a fan who over thinks everything. One of the things I've said for years is how modern music all sounds the same, and how I can't tell who I'm listening to on the radio. I'm exaggerating to be fair as they don't sound identical but as someone who grew up listening to music like Iron Maiden in the 80's something sounded off with modern musicians. After watching this, and your last video it seems obvious to me what my layman brain is trying to tell me, what my ears are reacting to is pitch correction and auto-tune and it's homogenizing effects on music. It's such a shame this has become so common.
As a side note as well, I already have about 5,000 reason why I hate modern talent shows like X-Factor but this is a big one. How some 2 pence pop singer can sit and judge some poor kid's voice while all the time knowing their own material is "augmented" is hypocrisy at it's finest.
Iron Maiden is not a pop or too forty or adult contemporary group. Apples and oranges is a huge problem with these analogies. Every music genre has its conventions.
@@JohnLnyc I disagree, just because I mentioned one band doesn't mean my point is specific to just that band. You can pick any band or artist from 35 years ago and it would be the exact same point.
As a perfect example I love Andy Bell's voice, it's not perfect and he never tried to make it perfect, especially live. It is however natural and full of emotion and as a result, much more interesting than any augmented singers I hear today, at least to me.
@@butIwantpewee He does have a nice voice and singing style. However digital vocal tuning didn’t appear until after 1998. You picked an interesting case. His later and more recent efforts have auto tune all over them. The fly in the ointment though is a change from the more classic synth driven dance pop to a more hardcore dance style.
And that’s my point. But first, vocals were “shaped” using different techniques pre digital. The musical genre counts. Production is shaped by the market and the market has changed since 35 years ago. Andy’s more recent efforts are fitting into a more modern sound. I agree his earlier efforts are different. My take is the Erasure Andy is eminently listenable (you can dance to it as well), The later efforts are heavy dance with vocals in a less interesting but more modern style.
@@JohnLnyc their point has nothing to do with genre
@@lolawants2008 who’s point? My point is much different types of music or genres have their recording conventions. Not sure what you are saying here.
The most valuable part of perfect pitch is the ability to identify a note by hearing it. For a musician this is "context". If some singer is having an amazing singing performance and suddenly swallows some spit i do not mind a pitch touch up, but as you say it's not probable that anyone can hit every note precisely in a whole piece. One of the comments was also quite valid that it's a disservice to the singer who is really close but some ambitious engineer or producer decides it needs to be perfect. This is the same quandry that presents itself when drums are "dead on". It ruins the humanity of it all. Great piece Fil. Sorry you'll get some abuse for this but...they just don't "feel" the music like some of us do. Cheers!
Ok but Have u listen to some of Dimash kudaibergens songs allowing urself to accuse others not feeling music in a proper way?
@@lilym1421 I am not accusing anyone of anything. Some people like lyrics, some people like beats, some people like perfection. All I was saying was there is a certain "organic" element that has a different feel than perfection and some of us prefer that. As an example, I listened to the Eagles farewell tour, I think it was in Australia, and everything was perfect, the sound, the music, the harmonies etc and although I really enjoyed it, it seemed too perfect. That's all I was saying. No offense intended toward anyone. There is no proper way to enjoy art as far as I know, it's a personal experience. Keep enjoying the art and have a fabulous day.
@@ronb5949 Your explanation is valid and believable ( and I completely agree) but that last line of your initial comment did sound like it was initially taken.
Personally I enjoyed lots of aspects of music but any enjoyed of the beat is ruined for me by the electronic beats. I will take a live stand up bass or real drums anytime but those are harder to find these days.
@@yardengali Dimash has an excellent live band in all his concerts, with a killer drummer and percussionist...everything one can imagine to the saxophone and ethnic Kazakh instruments, sometimes even the whole live orchestra... He himself is all-around musician and multi-instrumentalist. Just saying... ;)
@@paivyt. No worries, I am a fan and know Dimash is a great singer and a musician aswell. He is not who I was thinking of when writing my comment. I also know of some other excellent artists today. I was more thinking of today's general western popular musicscene. As compared to prior to the introduction of an overuse of technology in order to turn mediocrity into " stars". No doubt because people without actual artistry are way more easily manipulated and shoved into a mould.
Dimash has amazing live vocals in concerts, or just casual a capella moments behind scenes. He is always singing. 😎
I wish they would not adjust his voice in studio, because he is under-appreciated in this era of "autotune" and he has worked so hard on his craft and takes it seriously.🙄 No human pitch is truly "perfect" but he is really close....and Pavarotti is one of his inspirations.👍 His teacher identified him with "perfect pitch" at age 5 when he complained that the piano was out of tune.🤣
Do they use autotune live in his concerts?
@@sahinberga good example is dimash singing sos beautifully in the ‘world’s best’ competition where there’s no autotuning. Another one is dimash and placido Domingo singing the duet pearl fisher obviously life. You can see he does not need autotuning.
@@mariasloan2284 "He doesn't need autotuning" and "he is using autotuning" are separate things. They might be using in "world's best" because TV shows are generally infamous in using autotune/pitch correction. Almost 90% of those TV music "competition" shows use pitch correction or autotune before airing the performances.
@@sahinberg if the point is about his capability, there’s plenty of evidence that there’s no need to cast doubt as we all know that he sings acapella all the time sometimes without a mic.. Also, he’s using autotuning and he’s being autotuned are two different things. It’s unfair to the singer to make assumptions.
@@mariasloan2284 "all the time sometimes"? Your sentence itself is confusing. It was shown by pitch monitoring software analysis that he used autotune in some of his concerts, if not all.
Both Dimash and Pavarotti are remarkably consistent, when uncorrected. I mean, look at the evenness of those vibratos. I'm not terribly familiar with Dimash, but clearly he is a phenomenal singer. PHENOMENAL. However, your waveform illustrations are spot on. I hear no "hate" from Fil about Dimash, his voice or his singing. Fil says more than once that Dimash's and Pavarotti's pitch senses are very close. That's pretty bluidy high praise!
Great video again, Fil. OK, I'm convinced. I'm hitting the subscribe button.
Thanks!
You might know rules of logic like this: " If A, then B". In this analysis, WoP says " if A (normal voice), then B (too perfect compared to A, therefore autotune). Except that, in this case, A was wrong. A was Dimash' sick voice. To be able to make a proper " if A, then B " analysis, the recording used for A must be utmost quality, and deal with the same octave. Dimash wave sounds are very messy in mixed voice, as to be expected, but his wave pattern becomes surgically precise in head voice. So sadly, this analysis, though very interesting, to be valid, would need to use an appropriate "A".
comparing Pavarotti doing vocal warm ups and Dimash singing acapella on stage and saying that Dimash is "close" to Pavarotti? That is not objectivity. And speculating about the parts that cannot be seen on the monitor. I'm a huge fan of Pavarotti but this is not a fair comparison for this phenomenal young artist who is doing exceptional acrobatics with his voice while Pavarotti was mostly just standing still and singing perfectly using only the operatic technique. I don't hear hate either but I definitely hear prejudice, sorry.
I prefer Dimash's lower register. Can you imagine how different the world would be if they had auto-tuned Janis Joplin, Sarah Vaughan, Tony Bennett, Billie Holiday? It really does take the soul and feeling out of music nowadays. The great Harry Nilsson was another one that I'd like you to examine at some point.
I really enjoy your videos.
I don’t think current audio engineers know how to not use Autotune. Its almost as if the sound guys feel they need to justify their fee. I don’t want to listen to sanitized music.
I agree. Pretty sure it started out as a way of fixing a recording that had a few bad notes, instead of having to record the song over. But now I think they do it to tracks without even thinking about whether they're close enough without it.
Obviously, being close to the note without being tuned is the ideal case, both because that means your singing well and because you get all the little fluctuations that help comunicate emotion, etc.
@@deltab9768 ,the weird thing is that perfection do not even sound better. The human unperfection is what makes us connect with music. We are humans designed to be a part of the nature and nothing in the nature are perfect. A forest with only perfect symmetrical, 100% similar trees in perfect lines?
Music is actually funny, the musicians think they need computers to get absoluty perfect timing and pitch, but pay high prices for old worn and scratched instruments because they cooler than a new and perfect. You can even buy your factory new guitar "factory scatched" so it look old and worn, for a raised price.
Something I'd like to point out with regarding classical singing and Pavarotti's warm up here; In classical tenor singing we need an enormous amount of well placed breath support and airflow to be able to hit notes with full voice. While yes he was trying to hit those notes it is very likely that his goal in that exercise was moreso to get his muscles activated and get a feel of his voice during that day.
I wish people would understand that all he is doing is showing how auto tune and pitch correction deceive the listener and its actually an insult thst it is used on all kinds of great singers regardless of who they are.
Dimash no necesita auto tune;es el auto tune el que necesita a Dimash;ya está bien hacer vídeos así para ganar visualizaciones😣😣😣😣.
Entre tantos videos que tiene Dimash encontraste solo ese ,que por cierto estaba enfermo ,Pabarotti el maestro y Dimash Es Unico ,Saludos
Back in college, our choir director taught us to “think high” on ascending phrases, to essentially stretch our pitch slightly upwards to counter the natural tendency to go slightly flat. Conversely, we tried to push pitch slightly down on descending phrases to avoid going slightly sharp. It wasn’t that we were terribly off-pitch, it was just trying to get us thinking about pitch, and to not get lazy, especially on longer phrases and runs. It also kept us listening to those around us as we sang. These videos are very interesting.
Yes yes yes - this too is how I was taught! Gosh it's good to see what you have done Fil Thank you You explain things really really well :D
lucky you... my choir director told me 'to be quiet till Easter' - i guess i needed autotuning
He sang SOS at a wedding, it sounded just as good with low quality amplifier. No way was that Auto tuned.
Go back and listen to what Fil said.The auto tune is used by the studio after the singer leaves
Yes this isn't a live vocal, it's the SOS recording ☺
@@wingsofpegasus check his other SOS's renditions at Paris Unesco 2017, Spirit Steppe and Digital Show 2021 and let's see whether it was live or not? Pay attention in the high notes :) the pitch was still perfect with his raw voice, jezzz :) and i just realize how dumb you are for saying that performance was recording lol (at the wedding or event) everybody knows it was obviously 1000% live
So the guy recording him on him phone, singing live at a wedding, used auto tune?
@@nickkazich1904 He could be using live autotune. It does it instantly whilst they are singing. It's a tiny box connected to the microphone. The guy recording on his phone is only recording what's coming out of the speakers (after it would be autotuned). Not saying this is autotuned, just saying it's a possibility.
Well DimashK is perfect to my 60year old ears and that’s enough for me 👍🏾👍🏾His singing 🎶🎵is divine. Love your explanation Fil. Fan from NZ
Ich finde das eine sehr interessante Analyse und ich bin überzeugt, dass diese "Korrekturen" bei allen Sängern viel öfter eingesetzt werden, als man glaubt. Das die menschliche Stimme kein Computer ist, ist auch klar. Was ich wirklich schade finde, ist dass für die Analyse der "natürlichen" Stimme eine Aufnahme genommen wurde, bei der Dimash nachweislich krank war. Das rückt den Eindruck der Objektivität etwas in's schiefe Licht. Trotzdem ein gelungener Beitrag, Dankeschön. Ich glaube die Begeisterung über Dimash liegt daran, dass er so viele unterschiedliche Gesangstechniken in einem unglaublichen Stimmumfang fast perfekt umsetzen kann. Diese Bandbreite ist absolut beeindruckend.
... und um ehrlich zu sein: auch wenn einem die Zeit dafür fehlt, passendes Material für die Analyse selber heraus zusuchen, oder zu überprüfen, müsste man vielleicht in weiterer Folge - rein zur objektiven Information Ihrer Zuseher - die Information, dass Dimash bei der Aufnahme ernsthaft erkrankt war, nachreichen, sprich anpinnen. Dann würde diese Analyse noch professioneller werden ... nur meine persönliche Meinung ✌💙
@@aivlysregenstern2668, wenn man's nicht weiß, würde man einfach nicht draufkommen, dass er krank war. Weil der Mann einfach so unfassbar gut ist. ;-)
Да! Я не ошиблась, это именно та запись из Китая, где он пел с больным горлом. Было видно,что голос не слушается и ему тяжело петь. Он просто не смог обидеть тех, кто пришел увидеться с ним и спел немного акапелло. Это было очень трогательно. И, конечно, такое выступление нельзя расценивать как показатель реальных возможностей вокалиста.
@@aivlysregenstern2668 Ob er krank war oder nicht, sollte nicht berücksichtigt werden. Es kann nicht nachgewiesen werden, dass seine Leistung besser gewesen wäre. Seine Krankheit überhaupt zu erwähnen, ist es ein Beurteilungspotential, das nie gezeigt wurde. Das ist die Erhebung eines bloßen Menschen zu Gott. Wenn es bessere Leistungen gibt, als er nicht krank war, dann lass diese für ihn sprechen - nicht die Annahmen von Leuten, die ihn noch größer haben wollen, als er ist.
Do you want to be funny with Dimash? Do you want to gain prominence with Dimash ?. I have been to a concert by him, and I can tell you that I liked his songs more Live from him. What are you trying to do?. You don't know about sacrifice and talent. Do you think that Igor Krutoy, a Russian billionaire and a great world composer, was returning from his retirement because of a guy who doesn't sing anything? Of course you are going to fall for Dimash fans. Funny.
Have you watched the video ? He said that Dimash was a great singer and was as talented as Pavarotti. What are you angry about ? Dears are angry at people praising him. As a fellow Dear, I don't understand🤷🏼♀️
@@hatussa8473 hahaha don't be innocent dear friend.
You haven't understood the video unfortunately!
@@wingsofpegasus Of course I understood the video. I think the one who has not understood is you Dimash. I don't know if "Absolute Ear" sounds to you. Well, Dimash has that natural gift. What is the Absolute Ear? It consists of the ability to identify the height of a certain tone from any instrument or sound without any reference. That together with the vocal range he handles, the practice, the talent and the obsessive training to sound his best make Dimash a musical phenomenon that you can't even compare with anyone. If you ever go to a live concert you will find that it sounds amazing and maybe better than on his recordings. Greetings.
Yes here we call it absolute pitch or perfect pitch, I have mentioned it in previous videos.
I do not understand why you picked the first video of Dimash accapela where he was heavily sick for proving he was not on pitch? Of course he was not. It was not fair not to mention this in the video.
Fair, not fear
Different words
@@englishtea9163 sorry, my English is bad lol
It was just because it's an isolated vocal, full songs don't work. Music is not a competition so there's nothing unfair or fair about it, if anything it shows how good he is if he was ill and still sang so well!
@@wingsofpegasus Zu spät! Die Milch ist ausgeschütet.
The guy allready sounds extraordinary good naturally. Why would you make him sound like stupid robot ? Producers, just stop doing that to the music, please.
its the showbiz, in his concert he has the full control.
One thing to keep in mind is that classical musicians, especially singers and string players, tend to gravitate toward what is know as “just intonation” for the given key they are in. This means certain notes (mainly 3rds, 6ths, etc., though not octaves or 5ths generally) are mathematically more in tune for that key, but would be more out of tune than usual in the context of some other key. Pitch meters are almost always measuring the compromise of equal temperament (which modern pianos are typically tuned to), in which every scale or key is equally out of tune. So when a pitch meter says someone is out of tune, sometimes the pitch meter itself is just wrong, because it’s expecting the note to be slightly out of tune, and will say it’s off when in fact it is perfectly in tune within the context of a given scale.
A second thing is that not all pianos and particularly not all orchestras tune to A=440. So if everything is sharp or everything is flat, it could be that the pitch meter just wasn’t calibrated to the pitch center the music is being played at.
Similarly, singers and instrumental soloists may intentionally exaggerate pitch fluctuations (particularly sharpness) to produce emotional effects. That said, nobody is perfect, and particularly in quick notes or big leaps, accuracy is often pretty spotty. But it might still sound in tune because the pitch isn’t actually staying the same, there are slides, glissandos, portamento into or out of a note. So at some point in there it may go through the correct pitch, and in combination with vibrato, it may sound correct even if very little of the time actually hits the pitch.
While you’re right that it would be terrible to pitch correct something that a singer can almost never hit, the reality is usually more like correcting some of the natural fluctuations and mistakes in a given take. Meaning notes which the singer hits 9 out of 10 times perfectly, but happened to miss in this particular take. The usual alternatives would be to do 100 takes until one is absolutely perfect from beginning to end, or else record a few takes, then edit them together to remove any flaws from the main take by replacing those bits with that part of some other take where that mistake didn’t occur. Sometimes a bit of pitch correction is quicker and easier and more seamless than editing in the note from another take or recording 50 more takes.
Good points. It's very true. Guitarists and other non classical musicians live with imperfect pitches but there's really no other way to play in different keys. All one has to do is listen to someone like Steve Vai playing with an orchestra to realise that something's not right.
Minor touch ups are fine deliberately messing around and making something unnatural isn’t
I can't speak for Autotune, but the pitch correction plugins that comes with the Reaper DAW and TC Helicon's vocal pitch correction gear all alow the selection of the key as well as a chromatic option.
You saved me a whole lot of writing! As a fan of Pavarotti's, I can say that he often sings microtonally sharp, producing a very characteristic "bright" sound. It may also be that it helps him to cut through the sound of the orchestra better. Note that in the clip. the piano note was very flat in comparison to Pavarotti, but after playing the note Pavarotti made no attempt whatsoever to tune to that note. (Or if he was tuning to it, he was maintaining the same "sharpness" relative to that note.)
You bring to my mind , this wierd phenomena that has developed in this studio music . The sound engineers have a habit of blanket auto tuning . I guess what I'm saying is , rather than touch up the one or two out of tune notes in a studio performance. The engineer simply coats the whole performance in auto tune . My thinking is , it's simply engineers being repetitive in their editing job , in essence . Doing the same process over and over in a job .
Wow. You are putting Dimash at the same level as the great Pavarotti. What a great complement. 2 of the Greatest Of All Time.
especially since Dimash is like 27. He has his entire career in front of him
Compliment
" ...great _compliment_ ."
Has Dimash ever recorded Mes a Mi, the aria with all the high Cs? I would love to compare them back to back. That said, Dimash wins hands down on range and versatility, but I give Pavarotti the edge on timbre.
For more amazing ‘Dimash uses his hands to help him tune’ examples, look at his most recent drop of SCREAMING (2021 DIGITAL CONCERT). So many fantastic nuanced hand movements 🙌🏼👌🏼
Adoro a Pavarroti pero Dimash Qudaibegen gano mi corazón y mi alma ❤️🇦🇷 vayan a escucharlo en vivo a ver si usa autotun
Ah autotune, the art of making everyone sound the same. Also the reason why i barely listen to anything released after 1997 or so. Give me a singer with their own vocal colour and flaws please and thank you.
Have you heard Angelina Jordan? Young singer with most videos only accompanied by acoustical guitar or piano or band.
Yes, Angelina is a very young talent that doesn't need auto-tune. Here she sang "crazy" live when she was twelve years old. I know it's not auto-tuned because in other parts of the concert you notice she's slightly off pitch at some point. th-cam.com/video/gF183Y1OQlo/w-d-xo.html But unfortunately I think they apply auto-tune as well on her studio-produced stuff now.
Yeah i've seen a little, angelina is way, WAY too into her superfluous gratuitous vocal licks/runs/fills for my liking. Just because you can show it off, doesn't mean you have to every time there's a note held for more than half a second
@@kane29842 uhm, have you clicked on the link to "crazy" I provided? There are next to no runs in that one.
@@yiuqwfj nothing i'd ever add to a playlist, but yeah, less vocally over dramatic.
"...Dimash's range is crazy so the pitch monitor can't get up that high quick enough to see those top notes". Well, need we say more, lol ?
Perfect pitch does not mean you can sing on perfect pitch, it means you can identify a note by hearing it.
Nope.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Sorry but that is exactly what it means to have perfect pitch.
@@carlosoliveira-rc2xt Yup. Perfect pitch is the ability to remember notes - and hearing them in your head, like you can picture a house in your head - just like remembering e.g. colours, and therefore being able to identify a note by name when they hear it without the need of an external reference pitch. Singing a note perfectly on pitch, on the other hand, is the result of mastering all the muscles involved in singing to reproduce the note you hear or think of. So it's not unusual for people with perfect pitch not being able to sing on pitch.
It's as if I would show you a colour, you would probably be able to identify it correctly, but if I gave you a painters palette with a range of colours, you would probably not be able to reproduce the exact colour by mixing the available colours, unless you had mastered the art of colour blending.
No, it doesn’t, but obviously if somebody DOES have perfect pitch, and is also a singer, having perfect pitch will help them hit notes correctly, because they can tell when they are wrong. This is particularly the case when singing a cappella. A singer with perfect pitch doesn’t need a reference note from an instrument to know where to pitch their voice.
Great analysis, man. I think most of this generation artists use pitch correction. Actually, I think Dimash doesn't even need it cause I have seen him live singing SOS without a mic. Man, he sounds the same, which our ears can't even tell he isn't pitch-perfect or not. That how good he is.
So doing such a great job with the extremely wide vocal range that he has, and even sings in many genres, I believe he is the greatest or the most talented vocalist.
Can you do this type of video of him without autotune to see how he does on the stage? There are videos of him singing without music.
Unfortunate he lip sings frequently and in some recordings videos he's post auto tuned. No doubt.
Just because "he doesn't need it," that doesn't mean he doesn't use it.
@@AlfredoEClark Dimash is a high note artist as Vitas once was. Their audience are craving for higher and higher notes and a "perfectness" that doesn't exist in human voices. They are marketed with alien capabilities.
@@yogajedi3337 That is a misudnerstanding statement. Do more research. Also, you probably only watched his Igor Krutoy's performances, because the composer forbid Dimash to sing his songs live.
Its simple, isn't it. 'perfect pitch' is relative in the context of the unadulterated human voice. Its absolute in the context of derivative technology. Now that we have an instrument to measure accurately, we should ditch that whole 'perfect pitch' narrative and only reference 'nearly perfect pitch in the unadulterated human voice.
Glad someone has called his music out. I knew something was off hearing his music "live". I may not be able to tell what tune is playing but I can definitely pick up when something isn't natural. It's weird but my ears can feel the sounds not just hear them. When I hear auto tune it feels like nails scratching on the chalkboard.
Auto-tuning Dimash’s voice is similar to how fashion magazine people airbrush inches off already-skinny models.
Indeed
In fact, these are all words. To understand what an artist is worth, you need to attend his concert. I also thought that I would go to one concert and it would be enough for me .. But no ... I want to listen to this voice and this singing again and again .. Maybe that's why people, having visited his concert once, then constantly go to all his concerts.
exactly. that's why I visited all the solo concerts of dimash 2019.
Is that why so many people went to thousands of Grateful Dead concerts?
@@quitwastinmytime what was the point of that question
I think best dimash sing s.o.s live that i found on yt...when he sung that song that someone recorded to see ochestra plyr reaction.
Thank you!! An absolutely fascinating deep delve into auto tune and pitch correction (and the disservice it does to both established artists and up and coming singers). I totally agree with you that it is a great shame that a singer like Dimash gets autotuned (by others!!!) when he doesn't need it. His natural voice is beautiful and incredible enough.
We are so used to thinking that spot on note perfection is the goal, when in fact it is expression and emotional connection that most of us are searching for. Sadly many producers just don't get it. Personally I think it is due to needing a very technically oriented mind to be a sound engineer or producer. Their nature is to strive for technical perfection. Emotion is frequently ignored and vocal errors cannot be allowed. It's all ironed out.
I worked for many years with a creative as a producer and he wasn't like that. He had arguments with other producers and sound engineers over what to leave in, what to correct and what to change in a studio take. He internally 'knew'when a take was the right one, because it touched him emotionally. It was sometimes a take that others would easily have thrown out. He always said for him the perfection was in the imperfection. Everyone can sing perfectly with today's technology, so what is the difference between you and everyone else if you simply copy that? Humans are not perfect! Imperfections in the singing wake you up, they make you listen, they break through the barriers. Leave them in and connect fully.
Dimash is not your opponent so you don't have to be jealous. Even Pavarottide is not his opponent. Relax, sit back. If her fans say she's perfect, she is. Ear is their heart. Note: I understood that you were jealous from the song you chose.
I agree. 👍 🌹💖🌹
Music is not a competition, this is an analysis of auto-tune which is purely objective as I'm showing the waveforms, I'm not manipulating the waveforms in any way they are 100% accurate.
I heard Fil say more than once that Dimash has an incredible voice. The reason he chose to use both Pavarotti and Dimash for this educational video was because of the high volume of viewers that had requested them. This was simply an analysis of both singers without auto tune and with auto tune...just happens that Pavarotti doesn’t seem to use auto tune. I cannot see how you read jealousy into this analysis 🧐
@@wingsofpegasus imperfect humans as we all are, cannot do anything perfect or create any gadget perfectly. We all miss the mark. You must know that, because you are a guitarist, singer, songwriter etc. Just enjoy and appreciate others' hard work and achievements, which I know you do. Don't let others pressure you to analyse.
I wonder, if you analyzed Demash’s 2017 version of SOS in the singer competition- auto is not used, not allowed- his pitch accuracy was insane. Do a graph.
Well SOS I'm a Singer, was a stand alone song, he wasn't doing a three hour concert, so his voice would sound better.
Or his SOS at Digital Show, he sang it nearly perfect while doing a 2 hours concert :)
He said that the software picks up the music so it would be hard to see the voice on the graph.
@@Bpg5012trick Hmm... This example used is also a stand alone song. Dimash sang this SOS as an ONLY song at the Slavic Bazaar event on that evening. It was not his concert but a TV concert (live broadcast) with many artists performing one after another. Hence everyone had to sing prerecorded/playback.
@@paivyt. that's what I thought, every time I listen to the Slavic basar version. It's the same version from his music sampler I have.. And Dimash never sings SOS the same, only they took the recorded version. It's pretty obvious as well, bc his mic position in the end does not match his other performances. But I heard one other of those concerts he could not sing life, bc a political member was in the audience, at least that's what people say. I don't care, but I'm always amazed if he sings songs differently, but that doesn't mean there's no pitch correction 🤔.
Where you pointed out pitch correction, the vibrato was ranging a half step above AND below the note. In the live performance, his vibrato ranged only over a half step with the bottom of the vibrato often being almost directly on the note which is probably why it doesn't jump out as incorrect...his own version of "auto tune"?
Wow - your explanation of Dimash's autotuned recordings really, really hit home with me! I always felt his voice is too mechanical. But your explanation of how autotune is used in his recordings made me explore more of his live performances, and now I see how wonderful he is. What a shame that these engineering tools are abusing singers' talents.
Watched your whole video. Saw your comparisons and maybe I'm just not familiar enough with the subject, but based on your own comparisons and arguments presented here your conclusions don't seem very well supported. If anything your comparison of allegedly real Dimash looks extremely close to the alleged autotuned version. Mostly it seems like just a stylistic difference in songs that I notice (the "real" one has a completely different tonal flow, a far more eastern note progression and variance vs the SOS song which seems to be much more hit on targeting a common pitch). Both seem equally consistent just with a different flow. It really feels like you cherry pick the allegedly too on pitch parts and ignore the parts that aren't. I get that the argument is pitch correction is deliberate so maybe only applied to certain parts, but that's also convenient in that it doesn't have to stand up to the scrutiny of being consistent. You say it's a switch when the data could just as easily back up the argument of a stylistic choice instead. To proclaim so confidently I would expect far more compelling of arguments and far more comparisons, ideally targeting something much closer in style for one where you'd expect a very different result.
Are some his recordings/performances autotuned, I have no clue and I have no skin in the game. Though honestly your video comparing the two just convinced me it was far more likely that that SOS wasn't autotuned actually with how similar in form it is to the previous one if different in pitch progressions and goals.
Other food for thought. Every few years strong men beat old records. Lifting things heavy than ever recorded before. This is the case in nearly every athletic pursuit, sport, etc. Players of instruments often achieve things never done before. Guitarists attempting to break new bounds with what can be done with speed, accuracy, and precision. Why would this not be the case with vocals? Showing something that seems too difficult to be real isn't proof of anything. Sure it raises questions, but isn't proof and you really would need to do a lot more comparisons with his various performances to establish any sort of justifiable conclusions and it's a bit disingenuous to make such bold confident claims with such little presentation to back it up. I get that isn't nearly as click bait friendly and probably doesn't get as many views or requires a lot more time and effort, but integrity has those costs.
You can't argue with waveforms! Don't worry, there are professional producers who watch the channel who have stated the application has actually been poorly done, because it is heavy handed. One you're used to auto-tune, you can hear it's distinct traits wherever it's used.
Bravo!!!!!!!!! 👏
BRAVO!!!!! 👏
@@wingsofpegasus I respect the response and again this is not my area (though I am in a field where I analyze a variety of data for various uses) but of course you can argue with waveforms. You presented data. You claimed this data must be X because it must.... because there's no way a human can do that. Do you see the issue with that? That's like saying someone hit too many precise shots in a video game so they must be botting. Except you need to prove that the data can't be reproduced any way but naturally. So if you're confident I assume you have a large sampling of data to back these assumptions up right? Guessing countless videos showing humans trying to reproduce these waveforms and being unable to and countless videos showing the creation of these artificial waveforms.
Certain humans at certain times can do things that exceed or match what a computer can. Again going back to that aim thing. I've been playing shooters on PC for 20+ years and I've been accused of aimbot countless times (and I'm not even a pro or anything) and I've never used it. Some of my plays look like it's artificial because there are times or days where I outperform myself compared to others.
Further I find your A B comparisons extremely different in style and tonal progression. I'd expect more comparable ones. For example maybe a few "real" SOS performances compared to "fake" ones etc.
I'm not saying this isn't autotuned, just that your data and explanation is extremely weak. You have the start of a hypothesis and premise but you have to do a LOT more work to back it up to any degree of confidence. Just don't present something as more than what it was.
What I see is "Look the room got cold and our magnetism meter went off the scale that must be a ghost!"... You have to prove to a high degree of confidence that those waveforms what you say they mean. Otherwise don't pretend to do a data driven argument, it's really just your personal ear and assumptions and eyes and assumptions. Which isn't bad, just don't pretend it's more.
@@M4ttNet Even without the waveform analysis an experienced ear can hear that it is auto tuned/corrected. This analysis is an objective exercise that proves it. But as we can see throughout this comment section Dimash fans just will not believe it. They imagine that he is one of those "certain humans at certain times" who is the exception. This is not the case at all. Dimash's trademark is the extremely high notes that he seemingly pops out effortlessly. These notes are always auto tuned and with added reverb etc. His real voice lies in the high tenor range and I would describe it as a typical "lightweight" pop voice. He is not even in the same league as a true lyric tenor like Pavarotti. This is just my opinion but I think it is a good one since this is my field.
Why didn't you use a live version of S.O.S, to show if it also uses Autotune live? Or you could use the song Opera 2, where there are very long notes, so your analysis would be more valued.
It was a live lol An autotuned live.
It has to be an isolated vocal ☺
@@noellemorel7280 No, it wasn't autotuned. There is a spectral analysis of it. In this video the difference between autotuned and not is explained, among other things. Why are you always presenting your assumptions as facts?
th-cam.com/video/TgmbhMmhSj0/w-d-xo.html
Opera 2 has a spectral analysis here (the most accurate vocal analysis available today), and among other things it addresses the autotune issue. Also on the same channel you will find a spectral analysis of another SOS version.
th-cam.com/video/TgmbhMmhSj0/w-d-xo.html
"Perfectionism is the satin lined casket of creativity and originality"-unknown. However, we can strive for it, in order to get better. . But the saying is that, progress is better than perfection. I mean singing (any art) is not equivalent to building a airplane engine (where perfection is needed) And I've noticed that the best (in a creative way), are kind of imperfect-which is different from just good enough. Sure, PERFECT is real, but not only are there many correct, but different ways to do something, perfectionism has it's contained place in life -it gives you the drive, but is it the end all?. And once you think you have reached it, you probably can do better and/or someone has done better (subjective). Such a deep concept to understand
Can you analyze Dimash in these clips where there is HD isolation (I don't know what that is...) ? 'Adagio' th-cam.com/video/8xuzMAyNgcU/w-d-xo.html and 'Autumn Strong' a capella style: th-cam.com/video/WNs0nIVaaBI/w-d-xo.html
its true, i dont want to listen to dimash, or want to ever like him, just because i can blatalntly hear all the times he has been autotuned. I cant get it out of my head. He is not a singer I want to listen to.
Just to say-you’re doing fantastic work with this series. Keep it up!
I was raised musically with a different definition of "perfect pitch" To me, someone with perfect pitch has the ability to HEAR a song on the radio walk over to a piano or other instrument and play it back almost to perfection with no expectation of hitting every note vocally. Perfect pitch is the ear to the brain not the brain to the vocal chords. Human vocal chords are subject to too many variables to be accurate every time. We're human.
Yes, once you hear a reference pitch or get started singing, all you need is a good sense of relative pitch. Perfect pitch is hearing a particular note out of context and being able to say what note it is. In fact to make this distinction clearer, most musicians I know of refer to it as “absolute pitch” not “perfect pitch”. Nobody I know has used the term perfect pitch for many years. When it comes to singing or playing in tune, we just say… playing in tune, not that they have perfect pitch.
@@matthewv789 thank you for your reply. You explained it far better.my cousin was was a walking musical note. He had the ability in spades and song any genre. For me it was 14 years of The Royal Conservatory of Music working like heck so I could try to convince examiners that I knew what I was doing.
Yes it's definition does seem to vary, as it seems to be used to describe vocalists who are very accurate pitch wise. But in a less broader 'public' sense I would refer to absolute pitch as hearing a note and identifying it, and/or producing a note with no reference. I think the latter is why people associate it with vocalists.
@@wingsofpegasus When Dimash was first labelled to having perfect pitch by his music teachers, it had nothing to do with his voice or his singing. It was actually when he was learning piano at the age of 5 where he later was a champion in a piano competition. I think, his fans who heard about this story associate the "perfect pitch" with his vocals because well you know why.. I guess. At the age of 5, he was able to hear if something was actually off pitch even when others couldn't hear it. It was a story from his grandmother when she was interviewed which was actually in regards of his hearing the piano, not his singing. I think the fans picked up on that and thats when the story of pitch perfect singing started. I mean, we've heard many singers who sings good when live and many don't realize they are sometimes off pitch but we rarely hear people call them pitch perfect. I've heard Dimash singing without those pitch corrections or auto tune during his live concerts and I agree his voice is not always perfect even to the ear but I dare say that he is one of the best out there.
@@wingsofpegasus Rick Beato does a few vids {search Rick Beato son perfect pitch on here} in which he shows that his son has what he calls perfect pitch, being able to hear a note or run of notes on a piano and know what note he started on and the progression, I'm not sure if its necessarily being able to repeat that note perfectly, but perhaps to hear a song on the radio and know what key it is in.
i remember Paul Gilbert once said ' if you can't play it live don't record it', and he was talking about all the punch-ins and digital ways of merging and consolidating various regions together to get a fine track
Paul Gilbert is absolutly 100% spot on! I don't mind if people miss a note or two, but it seems some are totally incapable of bringing a song live 😖
This guy again lol?! Talked shit about Dimash in the past and now get him in a comparison?! Come on get a life dude, try to be at least 10% like him in term of singing before judging him - the greatest singer alive ok?!
Dimash is not thaaat good. Accept that not everybody enjoys listening to a robot singing lol
I won't pay either to see a guy move his lips on a mic and pretend to sing lol
@@noellemorel7280 Dimash won't be poor if you don't buy his tickets. Don't worry obody needs your money
Read the pinned comment, you've totally missed the point of this video!
@@noellemorel7280 Robot singing?! You are full of hate dude lol 🤣 and you know nothing about Dimash i can tell, i as a fan went to his concert and heard lots of his rehearsals, i'm telling u he's maybe not perfect, everybody in this world aint perfect but i can't deny that his pitch and skills are absolutely brilliant, keep hating on him boy, hope it make u feel better lol 😂 people whom dont have a chance to listen to him live always say that Dimash needs autotune (like the guy in the video) people just can't accept the truth that somebody is that good, with or without autotune, Dimash still slays it like usual, that's all! His talent is real, not like other Europe singers whom can only sound good in the studio :)))
You are using a fans made isolation that has been post processed by the third party creator (creative mente) to analyse, not the original version, and then claim Dimash uses autotune? How silly is that just for click baiting?
Димаш доносит песню до сердце 💖
I applaud you Fil. You are amazing! 👏 I'm learning from you all the time. Thank you.
I don't understand the obsession with "perfect". Music is kind of a collective (pretty sure that isn't the right word) thing. It's how everything sounds relative to everything else. If you go to an open mic where the piano is a few cents off you tune to the piano. The one guy that insists on using his tuner is now wrong even though he's right. I hear stories about which take was used on older recordings. There is no take anymore, what ends up on the recording is a bit of every take plus some that wasn't in any take. Saw David Gilmore make a comment in the film Echoes when they stopped him playing to adjust stuff, "a little feedback never hurt anyone" or something like that. Just let the musicians play lol.
Really depends on what people view as perfect. If someone sings or plays terribly out of tune nobody wants to hear it. No matter how great the message is, it would be like reading Shakespeare but every other word is misspelled.
But that's why you practice like crazy to become great at it and at that point the imperfections that happen make it even more great. If a note in a very tumultuous passage is slightly off or very rough in sound, it makes it 10 times better for me.
Dimash can sing live and a really great singer, auto tune or not, doesn't matter for me., is his team choice, Great singer can be auto tune, but bad singer do need auto tune, and they can not sing live, may by one song or two, good one may be can sing 90 min. concert, but Dimash can sing 3 hours live concert without problem, nobody is perfect, but Dimash is my favorite singer at this not perfect world time right now.
Just wanted to make a point. If you are a bad singer. Not even auto tune will make you sound good. You have to be at least a good singer for people to take notice that you can really sing. Sure auto tune can make even a very very young kid sound like his/she is on pitch, but they still don't sound like someone you'll want to listen to. The whole point of this video is to let people know that auto tune is used on most everyone at times. I was introduced to an engineer who showed me exactly how to know if someone is auto tuned or not using a graph like the one shown hear. I learned though, that if an engineer in post editing knows what he's doing not even the best ears can tell a great singer is being pitch corrected unless they can see the graph.
Sums it up nicely. Good singers can have small corrections done. Bad singers NEED corrections
Por favor, legendas pra que o mundo todo possa entender suas palavras.
🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷🇧🇷
Dimash the king vokal👍
One thing about Dimash is that he sings constantly. All of the time. And anyone who has listened to him and follows him has heard him over and over and over again singing perfectly live and not auto tuned. I do not know why anyone has chosen to do this to Dimash. From what he has said in the past, it is hard to believe that he is o.k. with this. He has worked way to hard every day of his entire life not to want to be heard naturally. His voice is amazing and unmatched. And it is that way when there has been no alterations. Thank you
It's the bitterness. And obviously being defensive.
This was a pathetic attempt at "analyses".
So many things wrong in this analysis. Comapring Pavarotti warming up vs Dimash singing an actual song then comapring that song to a completely different song.
This was a bias analysis to support his perspective. I unsubscribed for this reason. I thought this guy was legit but being defensive takes away his merit.
Lol why are you mad? That version of sos was so clearly tuned. And i LOVE Dimash.
@@JJ-xi1xd Try to relax! He wasn’t comparing the voices for quality or artistry. It’s just instructive for all of us! Two great singers!
@@dcazador7401 instructive how? is he teaching us about auto tuning? what is he illustrating here exactly? cause based on his intro, it's a lot about Dimash.
Not sure exactly what his point is?
@@ameladolnz7784 did i argue that?
his comparison to Pavarotti clearly has undertones. whether intentional or not. but it's clear he's being defensive on his previous statements about Dimash.
he could have chose a different artist to illustrate the difference between a natural singing voice vs autotune, let's say Taylor Swift.
then his point is clear about autotune.
you don't need two artists to illustrate it. else, it will be about comparing those two artists.
he's almost implying that Dimash "autotunes" which discredit the fact that Dimash has something special and unique,; and discredits Dimash vocal ability.
he's not saying that directly, but what was his point of "this" analysis exactly?
There is an isolated vocals SOS video from 2016 called "Dimash SOS A capella." I'd love to see a video analyzing his notes there. Would be so interesting!
Great video! But why did you have to choose those acapella clips from Dimash? He would have had so much better (not so out of tune) ones available :/
Thanks, I'm a Dimash fan and I think that it was very interesting. It's sad that nowadays autotune is becoming a reflex and automatically applied even when it's not needed at all ! Dimash really doesn't need it. He is naturally great and all the fancams of him singing backstage or at airports to his fans are proves of his talent.
Dimash's natural voice, did sound at times a little bit sharp, so I could understand why they would want to pitch correct some notes, but I agree, to blanket autotune a naturally good voice is never a good mastering decision. It's bad for the artist, and for the consumer. It sounds terrible and not at all natural.
I have to say both these men have crazy good vocal agility.
A big question that I have regarding Auto-Tune is what the notes are that the processing snaps to. I get the impression that they're being snapped to the notes as defined by equal temperament, which isn't how real people sing, and certainly not how they harmonize. In our modern mechanistic times we've sort of developed this notion that notes are specific frequencies, like an A is an A and it's 440 Hz. But music isn't about specific frequencies; it's about intervals: thirds, fifths, sevenths, etc, and there are various ratios that can legitimately (and mathematically) be considered valid for each. And one of the main tasks of players of continuous-frequency instruments, such as violins, is to select which intervals to use. This is an artistic decision, to go with a narrow third or a wide third in a particular spot, and part of being a great musician is making good choices for these. If you're singing harmony, you're likely going to go for a note that is a particular interval away from the lead voice, because that's the point of what you're doing and the focus of attention, even though that will likely be "out-of-tune" to the equal-tempered scale. And I can remember a voice teacher of mine instructing me in certain songs to sing certain notes a little sharp, because it was more important to preserve the intervals of the melody than to match the notes of the piano accompaniment. So anyway, just wondering how all of this, which seems such an important aspect of natural music-making, fits in with Auto-Tune.
I think this is part of the reason why to my ears auto-tune is so obvious, as it is snapping notes to a scale requested, tuned at 440hz. It's methodical and absolute using equal temperament, maybe that will change as technology advances.
Ah!! So it IS done on exactly equal intervals? This is what I'm hearing also, then. I asked almost the same question on a different video on this channel (nowhere near as eloquently as you did). On that video, comparing Freddy Murcury tuned to untuned, it was obvious. I think perhaps an ear experienced in years of live harmony singing hears auto-tune very easily (and detrimentally) for this reason. It mostly sounds flat and lifeless, with no sparkle. That's why I rarely buy recorded music any more. I thought I was just getting old fashioned or something, not liking so many new artists. But perhaps it's just the canned auto-tune. :-((( Thanks for asking this question!
Why do good singers allow their songs to be auto-tuned if it makes them sound less authentic? If our ears love to hear real voices, why ido they do this????
If the intervals between notes are consistent, it will still sound good to the ears even if it isn't technically right on the modern standard for the notes. That's how an orchestra can tune to match the piano (which may or may not be perfectly in tune) and sound wonderful even if the whole orchestra is now a bit off from the objective standard. This is why the second Dimash sample still sounds good.
Just to let you know, Dimash was really sick with the flu during the acapella performance used as the first example. He was supposedly coughing blood just before getting on stage, but wanted to give his fans something little since he couldn't perform properly that day.
th-cam.com/video/g1vUH-j5d3c/w-d-xo.html
Yes that makes it even more impressive!
@@wingsofpegasus No, that shows me, what you're trying to do - to provoke. This is not a random choice. You just need movement on your account, that's all.
@@katyasteinke7021 I wish I had the time to endlessly search out videos, but I don't. That's why I just rely on people's links that they send me, they don't give me any background information, just a link. Exactly as has happened on this comment! Read the pinned comment.
@@wingsofpegasus It's still essential to critique the examples used in analyzes. The context is important. I've made a scientific analysis also, judging the material/source is a basic principle. There are plenty of examples, if you were seeking Dimash's acapella or without mic singing. But if you were seeking where Dimash is also out of tune - that's rather difficult to find:):) Fans might have known some... Anyway, the least would be, to set things right in analysis. An artist singing very sick is not how the person normally sounds; there is no comparison and it should be mentioned. I wonder if that person who gave you the link about Dimash singing badly sick knew what he was doing... Just a constructive feedback. You explain things clearly, I like that. This subject really is relevant in our times... It's unfortunate that for many, live human sound is not respected as it should be.
Thank you I love Dimash even more 1️⃣ the best unique the only Dimash😍
I appreciate Dimash even more after watching this. Thank you for the analysis 🧐. Dimash is amazing. Bravo.
Whether natural or auto tuned, Dimash sounds perfect to me and just listening to his songs transports me to different beautiful places....
I think the point is that your not actually listening to Dimash.
@@archstanton1628 are you daft? I listen to Dimash everyday...even my car usb has only Dimash!
@@archstanton1628 "... _you're_ not..."
@@dearm7678 you obviously missed arch Stanton's point. It might help to not take personally someone else's opinion about someone you admire. Just a thought. ✌
@@archstanton1628 You whant to hear Dimash sing? You can. Check this link th-cam.com/video/nAQOLe9mKsc/w-d-xo.html If Dimash can't sing than Bocelli and Lara Fabian can't sing. But i can name many more.
I'm a Dimash fan and love your explanations, it's always good to learn something, in this case, how things work in a studio. And forget about the negative comments and abuse. It's sad but there are some 'Dearzillas' around who don't represent him or the rest of us. Good job mate!
Why didn't you, Fil, tell people, that you chose video with singing of sick Dimash, when he barely could sing? If you are so pedantic, why aren't you pedantic with everything? It's unfair
This is all I could find but surely it demonstrates even more how good his singing is while sick!!
@@wingsofpegasus yes,I understand that there are no so many of such videos. But , I think, you should mention that Dimash is singing here being sick. I think, it's important important detail. Of course, it's my opinion
@@wingsofpegasus this is all you can find? Really? I am sorry it can't be true. This video is not easy to find, if you search Dimash accapella - many videos pops out but not this one
😂😂😂😂 Yeah sure, he was sick. He is sick every time he is supposed to sing SOS live lol
@@noellemorel7280 have you any doubt?
th-cam.com/video/hTEujE0T55U/w-d-xo.html
To laugh at ill person is not right. Have you any person to tell you that?
OK,OK, But there is more to performances than just singing. I know that sounds strange, but it's true. People watch and LOVE Dimash for the whole package. Number 1 is that he is such a phenom singer with his RANGE. Second, he sings with such EMOTION more than anyone else and third he is one of the NICEST, KINDEST person you will ever meet. AGAIN, IT"S THE WHOLE PACKAGE on why he is loved so much.
What I took from this video was that there's nothing wrong with Dimash's voice, and that if anything it should be left alone and not 'corrected'.
Maybe it's just a phenomenon of the times we now live. Older generations grew up in the analog age, with records and tapes. With all the "mistakes" singers and musicians make. To us, autotune music sounds sterile, because the "mistakes" also convey emotions.
Today's generation is growing up in a digital, sterile world, ever larger parts of life are artificial and are becoming virtual. Autotune fits in perfectly with this time. As soon as AI also compose the music, there will be no more wrong notes - but also no emotions.
My thoughts exactly. The rawness of music from the 50s and 60s is what gives it that distinctive sound and it made every youngster feel that it was within their reach, at least to some extent, which added massively to its appeal. The sterility you describe extends to such things as photoshop, where celebrities (and others) make themselves look perfect with unachievable, unrealistic body shapes and appearances - and end up looking like plastic dolls devoid of personalities.
Perfectionism is not wellcome in any kind of a true artistry.
Thanks for the analysis, Dimash is my favourite singer and I listen to him in daily basis😊
Hace poco creativemente explico en su ultimo video de dimash screaming en Bejin que el autotune es dificil en dimash ya que usa mucho vibrato y muchos cambios de tonos, que quedaria fatal , esta el video en youtube
No bueno que se ponga de acuerdo jaja
Es verdad,pero mira,ni contesta solo pone corazones y ya,le da igual🤷♂️
@@conchi5882 jajajajajaj te encuentro de nuevo
@@xodimashlove Jajajajajaja estamos en todos sitios
As a major fan of Dimash, thank you for your video. I must say: I heard Dimash live in NY and he was SPECTACULAR - with unmatched range, beauty of voice, quick recovery between songs, etc. - a vocal powerhouse - who greatly impressed my friend who had never heard him before. People should realize that good producers use every tool in their arsenal to 'polish' a product EVEN when it's unnecessary. As a painter EVERY printer I used ALWAYS tried to 'polish' reproductions of my paintings by 'upping' this color or that - according to their liking, industry standards, etc. The only way to completely control your product from beginning to end is to be both the 'originator' AND the 'producer'. Usually impossible. Dimash has great producers - who mostly get their 'calls' right - but maybe sometimes they overdo autotune. But at Dimash's concerts (without autotune) thousands of his fans go absolutely wild over his beautiful singing. No matter what - he's the greatest. (And yes - that's my opinion.)
Hi, I was also at Dimash’s concert in NYC. My husband who wasn’t a fan at the time accompanied me and couldn’t believe how beautiful of a voice he was hearing. Yes, Dimash voice is that SPECTACULAR! We have never heard a voice as delicate and yet as strong as Dimash’s! He’s the real deal when it comes to vocal abilities and true talent. It’s just in IMOP, people can’t seem to come that that realization. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the greatest. Period!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 I sooo agree! We've NEVER seen anyone with his vocal abilities! And have you noticed that he NEVER stumbles or 'mis-steps'?! I mean, he jumps, runs, etc on stage and he never falters. He's a phenomenon and aren't we blessed that we got to see him live?! I'm glad to 'meet' a fellow fan who was also at the same concert! We're fans for life, aren't we?! (And boy did I have a hard time getting to that concert - and at the last minute I had to pay the outrageous price of $!,000 a night for a tiny hotel room!) But it was worth it!! :)
k.gail Yes, I’m definitely a fan and do not consider myself a fanatic as some might address his dears. I’ve always loved listening to music from my youth and still do to this day. Never in my lifetime have I heard someone like Dimash. Of course there are and have been plenty of wonderful artists that I’ve definitely enjoyed. However, I’ve yet to witness someone who has such power and who can also sing as delicate in a moments time, and at their command as Dimash does. IMOP, what’s made other artists so well known and popular, is their songs that were written for them. I honestly believe that Dimash can sing them all, and better. The only critique that I have, is his pronunciation/ enunciation of the English language as much as I hate to admit it. Once he’s able to master that, he’s GOLDEN here in the West. Subsequently, even with that, one can not deny his masterful vocal abilities. His sound, tone, and every other aspect about his voice is astoundingly beautiful and magnificent! I’m sorry to hear that you had such difficulties getting to his concert. I too had a bit myself. I barely had anytime to even rest in my dinky hotel room as I was also on the road which seemed to be a life time of travel. I also agree with you that it was all worth it though. Listening and actually witnessing Dimash sing live is in it self, hard to describe and even comprehend at times. I so now understand why people travel across the globe. He is as unique and is as talented as one can imagine with that gorgeous voice of his. I’d definitely do it all over again and as a matter fact, I can’t wait till I do!!!!!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 You know, it's a mystery how God uses people: In 1981, when I was 25, I had a life-after-death experience where God's angels came and took me to heaven where I stood face to face with Him and Jesus. Fast forward to 2018 when I saw Dimash singing SOS on the Singer show: I was stunned because he looked exactly like the angel who had carried me to heaven and brought me back all those years ago! (In 40 years of me telling my story I've NEVER said such a thing!) So, who really knows?! Maybe he IS the angel, fully capable of singing perfectly pitched notes - or God is simply working through this talented young man.. Either way, Dimash IS a gift from God! (I'm trying to make a full, detailed video of my experience for TH-cam - but it's hard because I'm not so modernly technical!) But anyway that's my story - and why I'm so fascinated with Dimash, besides his out of this world talent.
k.gail Oh dear, I’m so intrigued by your story. I’m so glad to hear that your ok. Thank God! It must of been wonderful in the sense, that you saw Jesus and the beautiful angel, that took you from your most unfortunate death experience, to whom would give you life again. I too often wonder, if God does use individuals here on earth in specific ways that we can’t foresee. I’ve often heard the phrase, that miracles happen every day and what your sharing appears to have been one of them. I’m sure you will never forget, this moment in your life, and that your memory of it, will most likely never diminish. So, perhaps the angle that you saw and that appeared to look like Dimash, may have been who you recall seeing. Dimash does have beautiful traits. I don’t think anyone can argue that! Many actually have compared him to an angel expressing their emotions while listening and watching him sing. I have to admit, I’ve had thoughts myself with my own admiration of him. He (Dimash) does certainly display astounding and pure loving characteristics that are difficult to understand or resist. Anyway, I’m so happy that your alright, and you my dear have been blessed in so many ways! I also thank you for sharing this personal experience with me. I too feel blessed some how. 🙏🏻
The past: NO Auto-tune, some of the very BEST vocalists of all times.
Now: TOO MUCH Auto-tune, most times for NO REASON, many people NOT connecting to music like they used to- and always talking about how awesome, "Older Music" is.
And you nailed it with one word, WHY: "EXPRESSION". Experience, feelings, emotions, life, are all involved in the way an artist will EXPRESS their music. And all reside OUTSIDE "Perfection"- so our ears, and our brains, RELATE, & ENJOY what we're hearing.
And I said it last time- It's their DNA, their FINGERPRINT.
Auto-tune robs us of this- As an "effect"? Yeah, ok. Pitch correction to fix very small mistakes, made during a great performance? No problem.
But to use it, again, as I said last time, just to make someone SOUND perfect? IMO, ruins music.
I want to hear Ann Wilson? As Ann Wilson, not as "Ann Wilson +". The "Imperfections" are what MAKE HER a GREAT SINGER. Because I can RELATE to her Expression of her MUSIC.
I give you massive Kudos for tackling this again Fil. When you begin to "mess" with peoples favorite performers? They do NOT hear the truth in what you're saying, they hear what they WANT to hear- which, to them, not really understanding everything involved with Auto-tune, sounds like an ATTACK- and they stop paying attention at that point, lol.
All you're doing, is pointing out facts & truth- it's up to them to accept it all- many times a very difficult proposition, indeed, lol.
Some of your comments remind of when someone tried to digitally remaster Jimi Hendrix. The clean sound was rejected, and they had to put some of the original "imperfections" back.
Music is about feeling, memories, associations.
I've seen a couple of other music commentators talk about this. I think it's partly the fact that some music (not all, but some) before the 2000's delivered a more direct emotional connection, but also...honestly...(old fart talking here!) "kids these days"..have more open minds about different kinds of music. At least, the 20-somethings that I know do.
You should compare the live sound of the LIVE, rather than deliberately distorting or misleading unsuspecting people to think that Dimash singing uses automatic tuning to improve your own discussion. Such an act of disrespect for a truly capable musician.
The video is quite clear and not misleading in the slightest, it's showing the difference between a natural vocal waveform and an auto-tuned one. For the software an isolated vocal is required, meaning no instruments, so I just can't take any live performance as I explain in the video. I don't say anywhere that Dimash needs auto-tune, in fact I say the opposite and in the video title I'm referring to him as a great singer!
@@wingsofpegasus th-cam.com/video/mGE6sifVcAA/w-d-xo.html Without music from 2.25
Ah...the Dimash's bully stans... 😂
@@noellemorel7280 ah... the haters... 🤭🤭
Thanks for the non-auto tuned snippets of Pavarotti and Dimash! Both so impressive.
May I just point out that the first Dimash clip was sung in mandarin chinese, which relies on tonal changes per word in order to have a meaning… If he held the note without flexing up or down in tone, he would be singing a different word from what the lyrics need… The second clip was probably in a non-tonal language.
The SOS clip, sounds so nice. You could be right that it’s processed. Though Dimash sings all those songs live as well.
The more I think of this analysis, the faultier I see it. In fact, to compare Dimash's voice with Pavaroti for capacity to hit pitch, that was ok.
Where the analysis fails is in "normal vs autotune" Dimash. WoP claims that since "normal" is uneven looking, then the more "perfect looking" notes are pitch corrected (not autotuned, but WoP flips back and forth between these two different practices). Trouble is four fold:
1-"normal" was in fact sick.
2-different octaves don't have same quality
3-different languages have different singing styles
4-WoP recognises that Dimash sick/"normal" pitch is often perfect, then insists that in the French song, because the vibratos are more often perfect, they are pitch corrected, that makes no sense.
WoP starts by telling us the difference between autotune and post pitch correction, and then by the end of the video, he's claiming both pitch correction and autotune.
Even in sick mode, Dimash's notes were nearly all pitch perfect, yet WoP focuses on the imperfect ones, to make claims.
It's such a small snippet. Really not a valid analysis to make grand statements.
Hey! Hey! Hey! Fil, congrats on the 200,000 subscribers 🎉
Thank you for showing us how auto-tune works. It's a very interesting topic.
Pavarotti, I love!
Dimash, what a voice he has. I didn't know him.
Ready to party tomorrow on the Live Stream. Who'll win the guitar? 🖤🤘🏽
Thanks for the introduction - I had never heard of Damash. Will look for his endeavors
You found a hole in the flowerpot.
Emotions are what bind us to artists, not perfect sound.
An artist is not a machine. Neither is Dimas. But it is special on many levels.
Imagine analyzing the great Leonard Cohen. Well that would be grotesque. 🤦🏻
I’m not a singer, but I’m a violist. Are they autotuning string soloists these days? God, I hope not!
Auto-tune, pitch correction, etc is like watching a sporting event where they do multiple takes to get a perfect play.
Imagine watching American football where the wide reciever runs a pattern, but he isn't turn exactly on the lines even though he makes a great play and gets a touchdown. So they redo the play until the wide reciever is always on the lines.
It doesn't make the performance any better and it's not reality.
If you get backlash from those hardline infantile fans, ignore them and do what you feel like doing. Your channel. 😊This idol worship of any human is madness and in defence of brother Dimash, who is a Muslim like my turkish relatives, this deity-fying him is hurting him spiritually and him as a Muslim. The main tenent of his religion (same as Cat Steven- Yusuf Islam) is pure monotheism. Worship of one God only. I have seen Dimash beg his irrational fans to stop this nonsense. I understand he is doing his masters in music as his goal is to teach music and leave the big stage at some point. He is still a traditional man so his family and culture will take precedent. Fil, ignore the hard-line fans. All artists have them. 🙄 I saw the same craziness with some Jimi Jamison (RIP) hardline fans going to my videos, other classic 1978 to 1982 Survivors videos and Dave Bickler videos saying he can't sing, he got no soul, no range etc or Survivor wrote great music because of Jimi. The absurd one they said if Jimi had sung Eye of the Tiger, the song would've been a hit. So where were they when it topped the charts in 24 countries and picked up a grammy? 😃 thanks for these great analysis videos 👍
Thank you, Fil. Someone has to hold the line. After all, what's wrong with the truth/reality? In my fine art classes every teacher took the time to point out there are always imperfections in every type of art. And that's what makes it art. Otherwise a machine can just mass produce it.
Dimash S.O.S performance on chinese show is 100% autotuned, thanks for the clear proof
This is the slavic bazaar performance what's being analized, which is clearly a corrected recording, it was not live in my opinion, too sterile. In the chinese show he performed live, so you are wrong, you don't even recognize which version you are listening to. Great differences between the 2.
Ohhhhhh what do you want. ????
Regarding pitch correction, and artists therefore not being able to hit the notes live: That is far from always the case.
In many cases, pitch correction/tuning is used to achieve a certain sound, a certain feel. Out of dozens of takes, the producer might choose a particular take where the emotion conveyed by the artist was exactly what they were looking for, but didn't quite manage to hit the correct notes, over other takes where the notes were hit far more accurately, but without the right emotional content.
That take would then be pitch corrected, and that would be the end result that is put on the record(this is simplified quite a bit).
If they are going for quite a 'pop' feel to the music, then tuning will likely be used, even when the artist is very much capable of hitting the notes, while other types of music will lean towards using it less, if at all.
That said, major kudos for actually explaining tuning/pitch correction. Now we just need someone to explain that effects(like reverb) does not equal tuning(as many morons online seem to think, if you see any song or cover, that has any kind of effect added, it will have tons of morons shouting 'auto-tune!!!')
And on a lighter note: I'd like to see someone apply autotune to one of Johnny Cash's performances! He was SOOO far off the mark - if autotune can 'pull' him up to pitch perfect - I just won't believe ANYTHING anymore! LOL (And BTW - Dimash is simply phenomenal.)
You sound like my grandfather. He always would say he (Johnny Cash) couldn't carry a tune in a wheel barrel! Lol!
@@lindaali6703 LOL! My Dad used to play his records over and over! He had to be the most 'out of tune' singer to ever be famous. I'd LOVE to see what autotune could do for him! Hahaha
@@facetoface-withGod Funny enough I am an old guy but still work out and last night it was to 'The Essential Johnny Cash'. I said to my wife when I had finished he can't have more than 1 octave but it was one of the best CD's I have listened to. I think the secret was he had that rare ability of being able to communicate to your inner soul as opposed to just sing a song .
@@gorse9030 Yes, you are right! Even Dimash has said a person can only have 3 notes to their voice and still sing a beautiful song. Johnny Cash sure had heart and soul, which obviously overshadowed his limited vocal skills. Your comment is a wise one. I was just thinking that Johnny Cash would be a great test for what autotune is truly capable of. LOL
From this analysis, it's inconclusive.. you have two different songs with two different needs.. maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but seems like you can't draw that conclusion with the examples here.
Not sure what you can't understand, check out the two latest videos!
The worst thing about this is once they use auto tune/melodyne on some singer, it doesn't matter how close they were to the note without it, we don't know how much was them doing their part and how much was just the software. People end up assuming the worst when they hear auto tune in a song...
The thing is, excellent musicians can be nearly perfect most of the time, but they all make mistakes. But usually not the same mistakes from performance to performance. The note they flubbed in one take may be perfect in the next 10, but then they’ll mess up some other note those times. Traditionally, final recordings have been crafted from multiple takes edited together, so as to avoid the mistakes in each take. It’s not clear to me how much more “honest” this is than fixing the same problems with pitch correction. It’s one thing when it’s a live concert, when a wrong note goes by and is quickly forgotten, but quite another when audiences hear the music over and over and over from a recording. It’s kind of not fair to the audience experience to make them suffer through those mistakes every time they listen.
@@matthewv789 I would say that at least in one way, the combination from several takes is more “honest” in that at least the singer can actually hit that note. Autotune can snap a note -let’s say-higher than the artist is capable of. And as Fil pointed out, the fans will therefor never hear live what is on the record. Both are a bit of trickery but I don’t mind it for a record-and as you say, maybe we don’t want to hear a mistake over and over. Still I’d rather hear a mistake than an autotuned song, especially for a mediocre artist I’d never listen to otherwise. And, on the other hand, Heavily autotuned, recognizable immediately, is enough for me to not give a decent musician a chance. All because of a producer’s choice. You have to be a pretty established successful artist to have control over production.
The musicians I love include ones who have been dissed as the worst singers, Eg famously, Bob Dylan, where it’s the poetry and emotion that his fans love; nobody can sing a Dylan song like he can, though thousands have covered his music. Ok with the exception of Hendrix singing All Along the Watchtower which Dylan has said is the best version of the song, it belongs to Hendrix. There is a magical combination of a voice and how that instrument is used along with the song (esp if original) that can make it both simultaneously revered and hated, for a multitude of reasons. Autotune and post production techniques are used to sell the record, and if more then a rudimentary “clean up” is a shitty thing to do to manipulate people to spend money and to believe singers are better than they really are. Autotune is an industry norm now, and it is disappointing to know that even Dimash-who clearly doesn’t need it- has been forced to agree to production manipulation.
@@foxandscout I totally agree with all your points. In the case of one recent artist, I did use some Melodyne touch-ups for two reasons: 1) there were no alternate takes, all the tracks were recorded straight through from beginning to end with no breaks and no re-takes to edit in, and 2) I've heard the musician perform all these pieces other times, and she never makes the same mistake twice. These are all notes she can hit, and her intonation is fabulous 99% of the time (to the extent that lots of people regularly comment on how amazingly good it is), so leaving the few notes out of tune, when she's played them in tune every other time I heard her play the piece, seemed unfairly critical.
I always strove to make sure it all sounded natural, with lots of back-and-forth tests, and also leaving lots of microtonal variations in place. (In the end, almost every note that sounds odd in some way in the final version turned out to have sounded exactly like that in the original, unmodified take, so it wasn't my manipulations that made it that way.) Sure it's true that she's unlikely to ever give a live performance that's so uniformly perfect, but every live performance will be 99% perfect, and in each performance, the imperfections will be in different places.
@Just want the Best voice Look, there are like a hundred other videos of her performing live, nobody questions her ability. And there is barely a commercial recording by anyone that isn’t significantly manipulated, I don’t care how many fawning videos talk about how great Adele is (just for example), the chances that Melodyne wasn’t used on even her voice in her commercial studio releases is laughable (not to mention layers of compression, EQ, artificial reverb, de-easing, etc.). Nearly everything that is commercially released, whether pop, rock, or even classical, is edited or manipulated in some way to remove imperfections. Many an artist over the decades (including famous classical musicians) has said “I wish I sounded that good in real life”. Nobody expects live performance to be as polished or flawless as studio recordings, because they never are.
Also as I said, in all her other performances of the same pieces she is just as good through 99% of the piece. But one day she might slightly mess up just one note. Another day that note is perfect, and it might be a different note that’s a bit off. This just happens to be a recording with none of the notes messed up, which is the norm for all commercial studio recordings in all genres and has been for many decades.
Este análisis de las voces de Luciano Pavarotti y Dimash Qudaibergen con un analizador digital de la voz es tan coherente como observar las pinturas de Michelangelo Caravaggio y Rafael Sanzio con una lupa binocular y concluir que se notan las pinceladas.
😆😂😆😂😆😂😆
Jaja, exacto!
it’s a great comparison! thank you!
Exacto.
Este señor pone corazones a todo el mundo,da igual lo que digan,solo ve las visualizaciones y los suscriptores.Un vocal coach dijo que Dimash solo usa autotune como adorno en alguna canción,cantando es muy difícil porque usa mucho vibrato en casi todas sus palabras,no se que dice aqui este colega,me borró un comentario.Pronto hara otro video celebrando otros tantos suscriptores,ahora la tiene tomada con Freddy mercury,por las vistas y eso.