@singjazzy6697 Technology has moved on greatly since 1990's auto-tune which is known as the Vocoder voice effect, "Pitch Correction" is alot more subtle and discreet therefore less audible to alot of consumers.
Oh wow! I'm kind of a Dimash fan, watched loads of reactions to him and this was the best video on him I've seen. Thanks so much for explaining all that and proving your case, as some people really live in denial ;) You also made me realized that similarly to unrealistic expectations towards bodies we also have unrealistic expectations towards voices. That's so sad.
Ok, I think any objective viewer accepts the facts. This leads to an obvious follow up question: WHY has it become such a standard within the industry that it’s applied to an obvious vocal phenom like Dimash? I’d love to see you interview a producer or engineer who supports the use of this technology to hear their views. Either way, Fil, this is some of the best stuff you’ve ever done. Thank you.
It's the same as with brickwall limiting, people just do it even though it objectively sounds bad. There's no good reason to do either, yet it almost seems like there's some unknown force that threaten every single engineer or producer into squeezing the life out of musical performances.
I found the explanation of Creactiva Mente (another sound engineer channel that has some videos about the subject) very plausible. He says that the abuse of the autotune effect is based primarily on the industry logic. The most popular songs of the last decade, the most listened to, are plagued with the use of the autotune effect. That is because to the ear and the mind, it's easier to retain a stable and simple sound than a complex and changeable one (like the natural human voice is). He says than in 21 century, in commercial music, for the industry there is a golden word and that is "simplicity": simple melodies, simple rythms, simple voices. What voice can be simpler than a generic and stable one? If you add a simple and catchy melody, there is a high probability that it can easily get stuck in peoples ears and mind. New generations are so used to it that they don't even notice they are listening to an artificial effect. That is in general. About the two artists mentioned here, Pavarotti sang opera, in many occasions without amplification (but NOT always). Dimash is independent, he has not signed to any label in exclusivity because he wants to keep creative control of his music. In his own solo concerts, they use effects like reverb and delay, but not autotune. I guess that in his presentations in some other venues (Russian tv, Slavic Bazaar, New Wave, etc.), the sound is out of his control.
@@MsLucy4ever Yes, but it is not autotuned. Creactiva told me he much prefers Krutoy productions to the Chinese ones, for example, because despite his love of prerecords he doesn't ever mess with Dimash's natural vocals.
Glad someone has called his music out. I knew something was off hearing his music "live". I may not be able to tell what tune is playing but I can definitely pick up when something isn't natural. It's weird but my ears can feel the sounds not just hear them. When I hear auto tune it feels like nails scratching on the chalkboard.
Wow, their voices are so beautiful without auto tune. I’ve come to the conclusion these excellent singers don’t need it. Let us hear their natural voice! Thanks Fil.
On a pragmatic note, there is no such thing as a human voice being technically pitched accurately to that of a calibrated musical intrument. You can however find singers who have an ear for excellent pitch meaning they are able to hit very close or on spot of the desired notes more often than others hence why we say they are great singers. Audio wave forms are technical data, not opinion or one's ear. I work for an electronics design and development company in the UK and engage with our electronics design engineers. We've done many audio products so yes, data don't lie. Just our ears are not perfectly calibrated. Dimash is an absolute monster of a vocalist and I've heard him sing in a home video without music, but without a reference point, it can be tricky. But even he says he is human. He sang half of SOS without music in Kazakhstan before his 2017 explosion, at a little venue. While he was very young there, it will give you an idea of his then natural singing voice. Excellent by the way. His range is phenomenal! Problem is the studios are obsessed with autotuning that even the most fantastic singers are tampered with sadly. ☹
You are correct, Sort of. You can “sync” a human voice and a keyboard (synthesizer). I believe David Foster and his “team” have actually done this. I just read a piece in MIT’s Tech journal about a group who are working on a synth that will duplicate perfectly the sound (timbre and all) of any instrument. The Fairlight was step in this direction. By the way, I wasn’t familiar with Dimash and the little I’ve heard is IMOP a freakish sounding voice I find hard to listen to. In tune naturally, imperfectly “in tune” or off key it is the tone, depth and timbre I find weird. This whole issue is gotten into the realm of absurd. We have been “fooling” around with the human voice since live performances (teens singing in stairwells, folks warbling in the shower) and since the beginnings of recorded music. Put a mic on a singer and it’s off to the races so to speak.
@@orlock20 very true. Music in performance or especially recorded is an illusion. As you note (pun intended), there is more to a vocal performance than “pitch.” Timbre, use of falsetto, yodeling ( Mutt Lange discovered that Andrea Corr (The Corrs) could yodel and had her apply that technique to great affect in a hit song “Breathless”). During the era of the diva, it was all about range and volume then came melisma! How a singer conveys emotion. Overused any of these techniques are annoying and obvious. The problem with Phil’s comparisons is taking singers from entirely different genres and styles each with its own conventions and most importantly, audiences. Pavarotti fronting Queen singing “ Somebody to Love” would be awful (my guess). Freddie Mercury singing a Buble’ song?
seems that differences in the length and form of the Eustachian tube tubes and structure of the cavities in the head may be why some singers seem so able to hit and hold more pleasing tones when they are using their voice, some sort of positive reinforcement is going on
Both Dimash and Pavarotti are remarkably consistent, when uncorrected. I mean, look at the evenness of those vibratos. I'm not terribly familiar with Dimash, but clearly he is a phenomenal singer. PHENOMENAL. However, your waveform illustrations are spot on. I hear no "hate" from Fil about Dimash, his voice or his singing. Fil says more than once that Dimash's and Pavarotti's pitch senses are very close. That's pretty bluidy high praise! Great video again, Fil. OK, I'm convinced. I'm hitting the subscribe button.
You might know rules of logic like this: " If A, then B". In this analysis, WoP says " if A (normal voice), then B (too perfect compared to A, therefore autotune). Except that, in this case, A was wrong. A was Dimash' sick voice. To be able to make a proper " if A, then B " analysis, the recording used for A must be utmost quality, and deal with the same octave. Dimash wave sounds are very messy in mixed voice, as to be expected, but his wave pattern becomes surgically precise in head voice. So sadly, this analysis, though very interesting, to be valid, would need to use an appropriate "A".
comparing Pavarotti doing vocal warm ups and Dimash singing acapella on stage and saying that Dimash is "close" to Pavarotti? That is not objectivity. And speculating about the parts that cannot be seen on the monitor. I'm a huge fan of Pavarotti but this is not a fair comparison for this phenomenal young artist who is doing exceptional acrobatics with his voice while Pavarotti was mostly just standing still and singing perfectly using only the operatic technique. I don't hear hate either but I definitely hear prejudice, sorry.
Dimash has amazing live vocals in concerts, or just casual a capella moments behind scenes. He is always singing. 😎 I wish they would not adjust his voice in studio, because he is under-appreciated in this era of "autotune" and he has worked so hard on his craft and takes it seriously.🙄 No human pitch is truly "perfect" but he is really close....and Pavarotti is one of his inspirations.👍 His teacher identified him with "perfect pitch" at age 5 when he complained that the piano was out of tune.🤣
@@sahinberga good example is dimash singing sos beautifully in the ‘world’s best’ competition where there’s no autotuning. Another one is dimash and placido Domingo singing the duet pearl fisher obviously life. You can see he does not need autotuning.
@@mariasloan2284 "He doesn't need autotuning" and "he is using autotuning" are separate things. They might be using in "world's best" because TV shows are generally infamous in using autotune/pitch correction. Almost 90% of those TV music "competition" shows use pitch correction or autotune before airing the performances.
@@sahinberg if the point is about his capability, there’s plenty of evidence that there’s no need to cast doubt as we all know that he sings acapella all the time sometimes without a mic.. Also, he’s using autotuning and he’s being autotuned are two different things. It’s unfair to the singer to make assumptions.
@@mariasloan2284 "all the time sometimes"? Your sentence itself is confusing. It was shown by pitch monitoring software analysis that he used autotune in some of his concerts, if not all.
Something I'd like to point out with regarding classical singing and Pavarotti's warm up here; In classical tenor singing we need an enormous amount of well placed breath support and airflow to be able to hit notes with full voice. While yes he was trying to hit those notes it is very likely that his goal in that exercise was moreso to get his muscles activated and get a feel of his voice during that day.
Dimash, the singer, is irrelevant. What people are accustomed to hearing is Dimash "the brand," which, whether studio or live, is an auto tuned sound. His fans still believe that what they hear is actually how he sounds, so there is no incentive ($) to stop auto tuning or pitch correction. The fact that Dimash has a great stage presence is, frankly, more important to his handlers than how he sounds. But this is the music industry right now.
@@John_Malloy His fans believe......? They are not that stupid who believe in eye shut down. His concerts has thousands of viweres, thousands of mobile recording him? Have you ever thought that? His fans could be curious or inteligent? They could check those fancams? I am so tired these type of fame seekers who uses Dimash😐
@@John_Malloy what are u talking abt? Dimash is actually the only artist who is moving the opposite direction of music industry flow, if not so he would have been deservingly a world wide super star by now
I find this analysis fascinating, I'm not an engineer or musician, just a fan who over thinks everything. One of the things I've said for years is how modern music all sounds the same, and how I can't tell who I'm listening to on the radio. I'm exaggerating to be fair as they don't sound identical but as someone who grew up listening to music like Iron Maiden in the 80's something sounded off with modern musicians. After watching this, and your last video it seems obvious to me what my layman brain is trying to tell me, what my ears are reacting to is pitch correction and auto-tune and it's homogenizing effects on music. It's such a shame this has become so common. As a side note as well, I already have about 5,000 reason why I hate modern talent shows like X-Factor but this is a big one. How some 2 pence pop singer can sit and judge some poor kid's voice while all the time knowing their own material is "augmented" is hypocrisy at it's finest.
Iron Maiden is not a pop or too forty or adult contemporary group. Apples and oranges is a huge problem with these analogies. Every music genre has its conventions.
@@JohnLnyc I disagree, just because I mentioned one band doesn't mean my point is specific to just that band. You can pick any band or artist from 35 years ago and it would be the exact same point. As a perfect example I love Andy Bell's voice, it's not perfect and he never tried to make it perfect, especially live. It is however natural and full of emotion and as a result, much more interesting than any augmented singers I hear today, at least to me.
@@butIwantpewee He does have a nice voice and singing style. However digital vocal tuning didn’t appear until after 1998. You picked an interesting case. His later and more recent efforts have auto tune all over them. The fly in the ointment though is a change from the more classic synth driven dance pop to a more hardcore dance style. And that’s my point. But first, vocals were “shaped” using different techniques pre digital. The musical genre counts. Production is shaped by the market and the market has changed since 35 years ago. Andy’s more recent efforts are fitting into a more modern sound. I agree his earlier efforts are different. My take is the Erasure Andy is eminently listenable (you can dance to it as well), The later efforts are heavy dance with vocals in a less interesting but more modern style.
As a classically trained musician, my understanding of perfect pitch is nothing to with pitching your voice perfectly -- not about about singing perfectly in tune. It's about recognising a note as e.g. A or F# or being able to pitch a named note in isolation. Someone can sing brilliantly in tune (can pitch perfectly) but be unable to sing an F# to order. And vice versa! --
Having perfect pitch (in terms of recognizing notes, not necessarily singing them) is not always such a good thing. I have very strong relative pitch sense and it makes me uncomfortable when a guitar string or any other instrument isn’t in tune relatively with itself or other instruments. Imagine someone with perfect pitch trying to play a piano or other instrument that’s even slightly out of tune, and how painful that would be for them?
I always think I can't watch these long analyses but then I do watch and enjoy. Love the deep dive and how you make me understand that which I don't think I will understand. Just subscribed. Thanks for your work FIL!❤️
Hey! Hey! Hey! Fil, congrats on the 200,000 subscribers 🎉 Thank you for showing us how auto-tune works. It's a very interesting topic. Pavarotti, I love! Dimash, what a voice he has. I didn't know him. Ready to party tomorrow on the Live Stream. Who'll win the guitar? 🖤🤘🏽
I can't stand an auto-tuned or pitch corrected voice. The part at 25:33, I heard it live in NY, and it was such a shocking moment, because live it sounded so rich, so powerful, so amazing. I remember exclaiming WOW, because I totally wasn't expecting that, based on the version I was used to hearing. In his solo concerts we hear his natural voice (and I prefer fancams to the finished product after). Another note is that even all the fancams and videos you can find on youtube with his unaltered voice, when listening to them it's a wonderful experience, but any speakers or headphones we may have do no justice to how MAGNIFICENT he sounds live. And one more note, he did say in an interview that he's not a fan of altered voices, and that these days anyone can become a singer. He did practice his craft from a young age, and is classically trained. It's really a shame when his raw vocals are put through autotune or pitch correction. Really such a shame! p.s. Another singer who I love, whose real voice we get to hear, is Eva Ayllon from Peru, a living legend. p.p.s. It would be so nice if you could find more unaltered performances from Dimash and include that in a video. :)
Hi Chelsea, thx for the"tip" bringing Eva Ayllon to attention. A bit to my shame I hadn't heard of her before. But that was untill now. What I've seen in just a few short views of one or two live-clips, is what I really love about real great artists: true appreciation of their musicians (and showing it) and true contact with the fans/public (and feeling it). Much like Patti LaBelle, for example, who -like Dimash- is also born on May 24th (only 50 years in between haha). And I am craaaazy of the both of them. Adding Eva doesn't seem like a bad choice at all, lol. So again: muchas gracias Chelsea! :-D
@@sanderdegroot6628 Awwww, thanks so much for your reply and for checking out Eva!! :) I'm overjoyed every time she gains a new fan! In Peru she is HUGE, and recently she received a life time achievement award from the Latin Grammys. But outside of Latin America, she is largely unknown and it's such a shame! Oh totally, as you say, she connects with the audience 100%, and shows appreciation of her musicians throughout the concert (and in real life too). Her singing is superb and so unique. With some performances I melt with the first note! I don't know where you are in this world, but she is having a mini tour in the US right now I think. Patti LaBelle, wow!! I used to listen to soul music and ONLY soul music for a while. I know all the greats. Still one of my favourite singing styles. :)) And holy cow, I didn't know she has the same bday as Dimash. That's awesome! Imagine if they sang something together? Meanwhile, I'm waiting for an Eva Dimash duet to happen. So, Eva was my fave singer, until I discovered Dimash. Now they both are. And... guess who was the only celebrity to attend Dimash's NY concert and post about it on social media? Eva!! I'm waiting for my dream come true to happen.....
The part at 25:33 you refer to has been repeated by Dimash many times in performances that are NOT autotuned so I am sure the uploader does not realise this. In a separate post I included some old links, but he's even more precise now. I also get a bit annoyed at TH-cam reviewers of Ave Maria who think it must be autotuned when, again, there are old videos of him practising those voice techniques perfectly. The other thing about Ave Maria is that he does not wear in-ear monitors, so he has no reference point. In fact, towards the end of Ave Maria there is an aural "marker" for him when you hear a BELL ring for a second, so he knows how much longer is left.
Thank you!! An absolutely fascinating deep delve into auto tune and pitch correction (and the disservice it does to both established artists and up and coming singers). I totally agree with you that it is a great shame that a singer like Dimash gets autotuned (by others!!!) when he doesn't need it. His natural voice is beautiful and incredible enough. We are so used to thinking that spot on note perfection is the goal, when in fact it is expression and emotional connection that most of us are searching for. Sadly many producers just don't get it. Personally I think it is due to needing a very technically oriented mind to be a sound engineer or producer. Their nature is to strive for technical perfection. Emotion is frequently ignored and vocal errors cannot be allowed. It's all ironed out. I worked for many years with a creative as a producer and he wasn't like that. He had arguments with other producers and sound engineers over what to leave in, what to correct and what to change in a studio take. He internally 'knew'when a take was the right one, because it touched him emotionally. It was sometimes a take that others would easily have thrown out. He always said for him the perfection was in the imperfection. Everyone can sing perfectly with today's technology, so what is the difference between you and everyone else if you simply copy that? Humans are not perfect! Imperfections in the singing wake you up, they make you listen, they break through the barriers. Leave them in and connect fully.
Yay Phil - ♥️ Dimash & Pavarotti. Fun fact; Pavarotti is 1of 2 of Dimash’s Fav Artists, so imo perfect comparison. THX’s loved video.. ur 1 of the Best & didn’t disappoint .. Well done! Hope fans get that ur complimenting Dimash!✌️♥️
Has Dimash ever recorded Mes a Mi, the aria with all the high Cs? I would love to compare them back to back. That said, Dimash wins hands down on range and versatility, but I give Pavarotti the edge on timbre.
Amazing! Not a musician and had no idea what a science there is behind the sound. Loove Pavorati. Never heard of Dimash but looking him up now! thank you for the exposure and analysis. Also a fan of your work too! so fun and interesting!
I'm a Dimash fan and love your explanations, it's always good to learn something, in this case, how things work in a studio. And forget about the negative comments and abuse. It's sad but there are some 'Dearzillas' around who don't represent him or the rest of us. Good job mate!
As a major fan of Dimash, thank you for your video. I must say: I heard Dimash live in NY and he was SPECTACULAR - with unmatched range, beauty of voice, quick recovery between songs, etc. - a vocal powerhouse - who greatly impressed my friend who had never heard him before. People should realize that good producers use every tool in their arsenal to 'polish' a product EVEN when it's unnecessary. As a painter EVERY printer I used ALWAYS tried to 'polish' reproductions of my paintings by 'upping' this color or that - according to their liking, industry standards, etc. The only way to completely control your product from beginning to end is to be both the 'originator' AND the 'producer'. Usually impossible. Dimash has great producers - who mostly get their 'calls' right - but maybe sometimes they overdo autotune. But at Dimash's concerts (without autotune) thousands of his fans go absolutely wild over his beautiful singing. No matter what - he's the greatest. (And yes - that's my opinion.)
Hi, I was also at Dimash’s concert in NYC. My husband who wasn’t a fan at the time accompanied me and couldn’t believe how beautiful of a voice he was hearing. Yes, Dimash voice is that SPECTACULAR! We have never heard a voice as delicate and yet as strong as Dimash’s! He’s the real deal when it comes to vocal abilities and true talent. It’s just in IMOP, people can’t seem to come that that realization. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the greatest. Period!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 I sooo agree! We've NEVER seen anyone with his vocal abilities! And have you noticed that he NEVER stumbles or 'mis-steps'?! I mean, he jumps, runs, etc on stage and he never falters. He's a phenomenon and aren't we blessed that we got to see him live?! I'm glad to 'meet' a fellow fan who was also at the same concert! We're fans for life, aren't we?! (And boy did I have a hard time getting to that concert - and at the last minute I had to pay the outrageous price of $!,000 a night for a tiny hotel room!) But it was worth it!! :)
k.gail Yes, I’m definitely a fan and do not consider myself a fanatic as some might address his dears. I’ve always loved listening to music from my youth and still do to this day. Never in my lifetime have I heard someone like Dimash. Of course there are and have been plenty of wonderful artists that I’ve definitely enjoyed. However, I’ve yet to witness someone who has such power and who can also sing as delicate in a moments time, and at their command as Dimash does. IMOP, what’s made other artists so well known and popular, is their songs that were written for them. I honestly believe that Dimash can sing them all, and better. The only critique that I have, is his pronunciation/ enunciation of the English language as much as I hate to admit it. Once he’s able to master that, he’s GOLDEN here in the West. Subsequently, even with that, one can not deny his masterful vocal abilities. His sound, tone, and every other aspect about his voice is astoundingly beautiful and magnificent! I’m sorry to hear that you had such difficulties getting to his concert. I too had a bit myself. I barely had anytime to even rest in my dinky hotel room as I was also on the road which seemed to be a life time of travel. I also agree with you that it was all worth it though. Listening and actually witnessing Dimash sing live is in it self, hard to describe and even comprehend at times. I so now understand why people travel across the globe. He is as unique and is as talented as one can imagine with that gorgeous voice of his. I’d definitely do it all over again and as a matter fact, I can’t wait till I do!!!!!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 You know, it's a mystery how God uses people: In 1981, when I was 25, I had a life-after-death experience where God's angels came and took me to heaven where I stood face to face with Him and Jesus. Fast forward to 2018 when I saw Dimash singing SOS on the Singer show: I was stunned because he looked exactly like the angel who had carried me to heaven and brought me back all those years ago! (In 40 years of me telling my story I've NEVER said such a thing!) So, who really knows?! Maybe he IS the angel, fully capable of singing perfectly pitched notes - or God is simply working through this talented young man.. Either way, Dimash IS a gift from God! (I'm trying to make a full, detailed video of my experience for TH-cam - but it's hard because I'm not so modernly technical!) But anyway that's my story - and why I'm so fascinated with Dimash, besides his out of this world talent.
k.gail Oh dear, I’m so intrigued by your story. I’m so glad to hear that your ok. Thank God! It must of been wonderful in the sense, that you saw Jesus and the beautiful angel, that took you from your most unfortunate death experience, to whom would give you life again. I too often wonder, if God does use individuals here on earth in specific ways that we can’t foresee. I’ve often heard the phrase, that miracles happen every day and what your sharing appears to have been one of them. I’m sure you will never forget, this moment in your life, and that your memory of it, will most likely never diminish. So, perhaps the angle that you saw and that appeared to look like Dimash, may have been who you recall seeing. Dimash does have beautiful traits. I don’t think anyone can argue that! Many actually have compared him to an angel expressing their emotions while listening and watching him sing. I have to admit, I’ve had thoughts myself with my own admiration of him. He (Dimash) does certainly display astounding and pure loving characteristics that are difficult to understand or resist. Anyway, I’m so happy that your alright, and you my dear have been blessed in so many ways! I also thank you for sharing this personal experience with me. I too feel blessed some how. 🙏🏻
Back in college, our choir director taught us to “think high” on ascending phrases, to essentially stretch our pitch slightly upwards to counter the natural tendency to go slightly flat. Conversely, we tried to push pitch slightly down on descending phrases to avoid going slightly sharp. It wasn’t that we were terribly off-pitch, it was just trying to get us thinking about pitch, and to not get lazy, especially on longer phrases and runs. It also kept us listening to those around us as we sang. These videos are very interesting.
I prefer Dimash's lower register. Can you imagine how different the world would be if they had auto-tuned Janis Joplin, Sarah Vaughan, Tony Bennett, Billie Holiday? It really does take the soul and feeling out of music nowadays. The great Harry Nilsson was another one that I'd like you to examine at some point. I really enjoy your videos.
The most valuable part of perfect pitch is the ability to identify a note by hearing it. For a musician this is "context". If some singer is having an amazing singing performance and suddenly swallows some spit i do not mind a pitch touch up, but as you say it's not probable that anyone can hit every note precisely in a whole piece. One of the comments was also quite valid that it's a disservice to the singer who is really close but some ambitious engineer or producer decides it needs to be perfect. This is the same quandry that presents itself when drums are "dead on". It ruins the humanity of it all. Great piece Fil. Sorry you'll get some abuse for this but...they just don't "feel" the music like some of us do. Cheers!
@@lilym1421 I am not accusing anyone of anything. Some people like lyrics, some people like beats, some people like perfection. All I was saying was there is a certain "organic" element that has a different feel than perfection and some of us prefer that. As an example, I listened to the Eagles farewell tour, I think it was in Australia, and everything was perfect, the sound, the music, the harmonies etc and although I really enjoyed it, it seemed too perfect. That's all I was saying. No offense intended toward anyone. There is no proper way to enjoy art as far as I know, it's a personal experience. Keep enjoying the art and have a fabulous day.
@@ronb5949 Your explanation is valid and believable ( and I completely agree) but that last line of your initial comment did sound like it was initially taken. Personally I enjoyed lots of aspects of music but any enjoyed of the beat is ruined for me by the electronic beats. I will take a live stand up bass or real drums anytime but those are harder to find these days.
@@yardengali Dimash has an excellent live band in all his concerts, with a killer drummer and percussionist...everything one can imagine to the saxophone and ethnic Kazakh instruments, sometimes even the whole live orchestra... He himself is all-around musician and multi-instrumentalist. Just saying... ;)
@@paivyt. No worries, I am a fan and know Dimash is a great singer and a musician aswell. He is not who I was thinking of when writing my comment. I also know of some other excellent artists today. I was more thinking of today's general western popular musicscene. As compared to prior to the introduction of an overuse of technology in order to turn mediocrity into " stars". No doubt because people without actual artistry are way more easily manipulated and shoved into a mould.
Very interesting, great to hear from an expert. Wonderful seeing Pavarotti and Dimash on the same page. I had the thrill of attending a Dimash concert 2019 in New York and I understand what you are saying totally. However he entertains his devoted audience 100%. And his vocal skills are amazing. Then add his warm personality and his excitement being on stage in NY - I’m looking forward to his next concert. Have you listened to his vocalisation of “Know”. That is one of his marvellous performances. 🤗🤗🤗
Wow - your explanation of Dimash's autotuned recordings really, really hit home with me! I always felt his voice is too mechanical. But your explanation of how autotune is used in his recordings made me explore more of his live performances, and now I see how wonderful he is. What a shame that these engineering tools are abusing singers' talents.
Ich finde das eine sehr interessante Analyse und ich bin überzeugt, dass diese "Korrekturen" bei allen Sängern viel öfter eingesetzt werden, als man glaubt. Das die menschliche Stimme kein Computer ist, ist auch klar. Was ich wirklich schade finde, ist dass für die Analyse der "natürlichen" Stimme eine Aufnahme genommen wurde, bei der Dimash nachweislich krank war. Das rückt den Eindruck der Objektivität etwas in's schiefe Licht. Trotzdem ein gelungener Beitrag, Dankeschön. Ich glaube die Begeisterung über Dimash liegt daran, dass er so viele unterschiedliche Gesangstechniken in einem unglaublichen Stimmumfang fast perfekt umsetzen kann. Diese Bandbreite ist absolut beeindruckend.
... und um ehrlich zu sein: auch wenn einem die Zeit dafür fehlt, passendes Material für die Analyse selber heraus zusuchen, oder zu überprüfen, müsste man vielleicht in weiterer Folge - rein zur objektiven Information Ihrer Zuseher - die Information, dass Dimash bei der Aufnahme ernsthaft erkrankt war, nachreichen, sprich anpinnen. Dann würde diese Analyse noch professioneller werden ... nur meine persönliche Meinung ✌💙
Да! Я не ошиблась, это именно та запись из Китая, где он пел с больным горлом. Было видно,что голос не слушается и ему тяжело петь. Он просто не смог обидеть тех, кто пришел увидеться с ним и спел немного акапелло. Это было очень трогательно. И, конечно, такое выступление нельзя расценивать как показатель реальных возможностей вокалиста.
@@aivlysregenstern2668 Ob er krank war oder nicht, sollte nicht berücksichtigt werden. Es kann nicht nachgewiesen werden, dass seine Leistung besser gewesen wäre. Seine Krankheit überhaupt zu erwähnen, ist es ein Beurteilungspotential, das nie gezeigt wurde. Das ist die Erhebung eines bloßen Menschen zu Gott. Wenn es bessere Leistungen gibt, als er nicht krank war, dann lass diese für ihn sprechen - nicht die Annahmen von Leuten, die ihn noch größer haben wollen, als er ist.
One thing to keep in mind is that classical musicians, especially singers and string players, tend to gravitate toward what is know as “just intonation” for the given key they are in. This means certain notes (mainly 3rds, 6ths, etc., though not octaves or 5ths generally) are mathematically more in tune for that key, but would be more out of tune than usual in the context of some other key. Pitch meters are almost always measuring the compromise of equal temperament (which modern pianos are typically tuned to), in which every scale or key is equally out of tune. So when a pitch meter says someone is out of tune, sometimes the pitch meter itself is just wrong, because it’s expecting the note to be slightly out of tune, and will say it’s off when in fact it is perfectly in tune within the context of a given scale. A second thing is that not all pianos and particularly not all orchestras tune to A=440. So if everything is sharp or everything is flat, it could be that the pitch meter just wasn’t calibrated to the pitch center the music is being played at. Similarly, singers and instrumental soloists may intentionally exaggerate pitch fluctuations (particularly sharpness) to produce emotional effects. That said, nobody is perfect, and particularly in quick notes or big leaps, accuracy is often pretty spotty. But it might still sound in tune because the pitch isn’t actually staying the same, there are slides, glissandos, portamento into or out of a note. So at some point in there it may go through the correct pitch, and in combination with vibrato, it may sound correct even if very little of the time actually hits the pitch. While you’re right that it would be terrible to pitch correct something that a singer can almost never hit, the reality is usually more like correcting some of the natural fluctuations and mistakes in a given take. Meaning notes which the singer hits 9 out of 10 times perfectly, but happened to miss in this particular take. The usual alternatives would be to do 100 takes until one is absolutely perfect from beginning to end, or else record a few takes, then edit them together to remove any flaws from the main take by replacing those bits with that part of some other take where that mistake didn’t occur. Sometimes a bit of pitch correction is quicker and easier and more seamless than editing in the note from another take or recording 50 more takes.
Good points. It's very true. Guitarists and other non classical musicians live with imperfect pitches but there's really no other way to play in different keys. All one has to do is listen to someone like Steve Vai playing with an orchestra to realise that something's not right.
I can't speak for Autotune, but the pitch correction plugins that comes with the Reaper DAW and TC Helicon's vocal pitch correction gear all alow the selection of the key as well as a chromatic option.
You saved me a whole lot of writing! As a fan of Pavarotti's, I can say that he often sings microtonally sharp, producing a very characteristic "bright" sound. It may also be that it helps him to cut through the sound of the orchestra better. Note that in the clip. the piano note was very flat in comparison to Pavarotti, but after playing the note Pavarotti made no attempt whatsoever to tune to that note. (Or if he was tuning to it, he was maintaining the same "sharpness" relative to that note.)
You bring to my mind , this wierd phenomena that has developed in this studio music . The sound engineers have a habit of blanket auto tuning . I guess what I'm saying is , rather than touch up the one or two out of tune notes in a studio performance. The engineer simply coats the whole performance in auto tune . My thinking is , it's simply engineers being repetitive in their editing job , in essence . Doing the same process over and over in a job .
In fact, these are all words. To understand what an artist is worth, you need to attend his concert. I also thought that I would go to one concert and it would be enough for me .. But no ... I want to listen to this voice and this singing again and again .. Maybe that's why people, having visited his concert once, then constantly go to all his concerts.
You nailed it Fil, the human voice does lose it’s humanity when it is auto tuned and/or pitch corrected. We come for the soul,the emotion of the singers REAL voice.
@@dearm7678 you obviously missed arch Stanton's point. It might help to not take personally someone else's opinion about someone you admire. Just a thought. ✌
@@archstanton1628 You whant to hear Dimash sing? You can. Check this link th-cam.com/video/nAQOLe9mKsc/w-d-xo.html If Dimash can't sing than Bocelli and Lara Fabian can't sing. But i can name many more.
Thank you so much! I always tried to put my finger on the reason why "old" vocal recordings give me so much emotion and chills whilst "new" ones most of the time just sound sterile to me (even though the singer might be a great one). By the way: You are an amazing artist aswell!! Keep up the great work!
Thanks for the non-auto tuned snippets of Pavarotti and Dimash! Both so impressive. May I just point out that the first Dimash clip was sung in mandarin chinese, which relies on tonal changes per word in order to have a meaning… If he held the note without flexing up or down in tone, he would be singing a different word from what the lyrics need… The second clip was probably in a non-tonal language. The SOS clip, sounds so nice. You could be right that it’s processed. Though Dimash sings all those songs live as well.
The more I think of this analysis, the faultier I see it. In fact, to compare Dimash's voice with Pavaroti for capacity to hit pitch, that was ok. Where the analysis fails is in "normal vs autotune" Dimash. WoP claims that since "normal" is uneven looking, then the more "perfect looking" notes are pitch corrected (not autotuned, but WoP flips back and forth between these two different practices). Trouble is four fold: 1-"normal" was in fact sick. 2-different octaves don't have same quality 3-different languages have different singing styles 4-WoP recognises that Dimash sick/"normal" pitch is often perfect, then insists that in the French song, because the vibratos are more often perfect, they are pitch corrected, that makes no sense. WoP starts by telling us the difference between autotune and post pitch correction, and then by the end of the video, he's claiming both pitch correction and autotune. Even in sick mode, Dimash's notes were nearly all pitch perfect, yet WoP focuses on the imperfect ones, to make claims. It's such a small snippet. Really not a valid analysis to make grand statements.
Great analysis, man. I think most of this generation artists use pitch correction. Actually, I think Dimash doesn't even need it cause I have seen him live singing SOS without a mic. Man, he sounds the same, which our ears can't even tell he isn't pitch-perfect or not. That how good he is. So doing such a great job with the extremely wide vocal range that he has, and even sings in many genres, I believe he is the greatest or the most talented vocalist. Can you do this type of video of him without autotune to see how he does on the stage? There are videos of him singing without music.
@@AlfredoEClark Dimash is a high note artist as Vitas once was. Their audience are craving for higher and higher notes and a "perfectness" that doesn't exist in human voices. They are marketed with alien capabilities.
@@yogajedi3337 That is a misudnerstanding statement. Do more research. Also, you probably only watched his Igor Krutoy's performances, because the composer forbid Dimash to sing his songs live.
What you are doing with these pitch analysis videos is fascinating and enlightening. Your point of view is heartfelt and coming from a place of integrity. Technology is so very seductive and far too many people are being corrupted by it.
One thing about Dimash is that he sings constantly. All of the time. And anyone who has listened to him and follows him has heard him over and over and over again singing perfectly live and not auto tuned. I do not know why anyone has chosen to do this to Dimash. From what he has said in the past, it is hard to believe that he is o.k. with this. He has worked way to hard every day of his entire life not to want to be heard naturally. His voice is amazing and unmatched. And it is that way when there has been no alterations. Thank you
It's the bitterness. And obviously being defensive. This was a pathetic attempt at "analyses". So many things wrong in this analysis. Comapring Pavarotti warming up vs Dimash singing an actual song then comapring that song to a completely different song. This was a bias analysis to support his perspective. I unsubscribed for this reason. I thought this guy was legit but being defensive takes away his merit.
@@dcazador7401 instructive how? is he teaching us about auto tuning? what is he illustrating here exactly? cause based on his intro, it's a lot about Dimash. Not sure exactly what his point is?
@@ameladolnz7784 did i argue that? his comparison to Pavarotti clearly has undertones. whether intentional or not. but it's clear he's being defensive on his previous statements about Dimash. he could have chose a different artist to illustrate the difference between a natural singing voice vs autotune, let's say Taylor Swift. then his point is clear about autotune. you don't need two artists to illustrate it. else, it will be about comparing those two artists. he's almost implying that Dimash "autotunes" which discredit the fact that Dimash has something special and unique,; and discredits Dimash vocal ability. he's not saying that directly, but what was his point of "this" analysis exactly?
I don’t think current audio engineers know how to not use Autotune. Its almost as if the sound guys feel they need to justify their fee. I don’t want to listen to sanitized music.
I agree. Pretty sure it started out as a way of fixing a recording that had a few bad notes, instead of having to record the song over. But now I think they do it to tracks without even thinking about whether they're close enough without it. Obviously, being close to the note without being tuned is the ideal case, both because that means your singing well and because you get all the little fluctuations that help comunicate emotion, etc.
@@deltab9768 ,the weird thing is that perfection do not even sound better. The human unperfection is what makes us connect with music. We are humans designed to be a part of the nature and nothing in the nature are perfect. A forest with only perfect symmetrical, 100% similar trees in perfect lines? Music is actually funny, the musicians think they need computers to get absoluty perfect timing and pitch, but pay high prices for old worn and scratched instruments because they cooler than a new and perfect. You can even buy your factory new guitar "factory scatched" so it look old and worn, for a raised price.
Great analysis. I remain a Dimash fan because you can see how much he has improved his techniques with time and produced some highly emotional performances. As you say it is a shame for the artist and the audience online when producers step in and try to enhance the recording we see in this way. Also most noticable in some of the junior competitions viewable online too. Thanks, John
What an education this commentary is - I just thought Dimash had an odd sound, but now I understand it's the Correcting and Automating that I'm hearing. I connect much better with his unadulterated voice and wish I could hear more of that! Really appreciated hearing the Pavarotti warm-up session and the nuanced comparison of two amazing voices.
I am a new fan of your channel and totally agree with your thesis and enjoy your analysis. One quibble: When you play an excellent singer warming up or singing a cappella without reference backing tracks, the likelihood of natural variance is much higher than how they would naturally sound with reference notes that show them the real pitch of every note, right? This isn't to say the real performance isn't wildly variant but it should be much less so with instrumental references which are often perfectly tuned to 440, like keyboards. Also a vocalist warming up is maybe still stretching to get his or her voice in tune. It is hard to produce such content though since every live or studio recording could be digitally altered or get instrumental interference. Would be cool if more producers released the unedited "real" tracks for such educational content.
For more amazing ‘Dimash uses his hands to help him tune’ examples, look at his most recent drop of SCREAMING (2021 DIGITAL CONCERT). So many fantastic nuanced hand movements 🙌🏼👌🏼
i remember Paul Gilbert once said ' if you can't play it live don't record it', and he was talking about all the punch-ins and digital ways of merging and consolidating various regions together to get a fine track
Where you pointed out pitch correction, the vibrato was ranging a half step above AND below the note. In the live performance, his vibrato ranged only over a half step with the bottom of the vibrato often being almost directly on the note which is probably why it doesn't jump out as incorrect...his own version of "auto tune"?
As a brass player, everything you said was absolutely right on. So glad somebody is shining some light on auto tuning. I really enjoy your videos and comments. If you can, would you listen to So Hyang's live performance of Arirang Alone and see if this is natural or auto tuned. She has been said to be the female Dimash. Blessings to you.
There is an isolated vocals SOS video from 2016 called "Dimash SOS A capella." I'd love to see a video analyzing his notes there. Would be so interesting!
It is the Imperfections on Vocals and Instruments , that Connects with Emotion . A Great Singer Without Autotune Reaches ppls Emotions, the same with clic tracs with every single note Spot On It Lacks Emotion and sounds Unnatural to the Human Ear , being on beat with a Drummer is natural to the ear , Clic track the Rhythm is precise and Unnatural . Music now is Recorded 1 person At a Time , Not the Whole Band where the Recording Catches the Spark Of The Band , Magic of Playing Together
please do the VITAS, my ears and eyes tell me he lip-sync quit a bit, but I want to see the fact. Great video. I'm a Dimash "music" fan, but I sometimes feel awkward when people call him the best in the world and recommend other youtuber clearly autotuned music clip. I love his music, and happy to see his music career grow.
Regarding pitch correction, and artists therefore not being able to hit the notes live: That is far from always the case. In many cases, pitch correction/tuning is used to achieve a certain sound, a certain feel. Out of dozens of takes, the producer might choose a particular take where the emotion conveyed by the artist was exactly what they were looking for, but didn't quite manage to hit the correct notes, over other takes where the notes were hit far more accurately, but without the right emotional content. That take would then be pitch corrected, and that would be the end result that is put on the record(this is simplified quite a bit). If they are going for quite a 'pop' feel to the music, then tuning will likely be used, even when the artist is very much capable of hitting the notes, while other types of music will lean towards using it less, if at all. That said, major kudos for actually explaining tuning/pitch correction. Now we just need someone to explain that effects(like reverb) does not equal tuning(as many morons online seem to think, if you see any song or cover, that has any kind of effect added, it will have tons of morons shouting 'auto-tune!!!')
I'm big fan of Dimash no Backclash. Facts are the facts. Thank you being objective. For me, Dimash is still the greatest singer I ever heard through my lifetime.
I was at Dimash's concerts. And always next to the stage. Concerts are always live. And the voice sounds much more voluminous than in any recording. Note to note.
"Perfectionism is the satin lined casket of creativity and originality"-unknown. However, we can strive for it, in order to get better. . But the saying is that, progress is better than perfection. I mean singing (any art) is not equivalent to building a airplane engine (where perfection is needed) And I've noticed that the best (in a creative way), are kind of imperfect-which is different from just good enough. Sure, PERFECT is real, but not only are there many correct, but different ways to do something, perfectionism has it's contained place in life -it gives you the drive, but is it the end all?. And once you think you have reached it, you probably can do better and/or someone has done better (subjective). Such a deep concept to understand
If the intervals between notes are consistent, it will still sound good to the ears even if it isn't technically right on the modern standard for the notes. That's how an orchestra can tune to match the piano (which may or may not be perfectly in tune) and sound wonderful even if the whole orchestra is now a bit off from the objective standard. This is why the second Dimash sample still sounds good.
Holy cow.Im realizing more and more how important it is this is brought to light and people understand the differences.I agree its frustration and kinda ridiculous really.
Fil, I don't tune in, automatically (you know, auto-tune), to your posts, since I'm not a musician, though I am filled with respect at your deeply knowledgeable and intelligent commentaries, as well as the way you make it really relatable for all of us. Thank you, from Indiana, USA!
Thank you for such a thorough explanation! Just wanted to mention that the first recording of Dimash that you used was the one from when he had a sore throat and couldn't perform, but he didn't want to upset his fans who came to the event, so he sang a cappella a piece of the song.
Thank you for such a great analysis and explanation. I find myself wondering if singers ever train while watching their waveforms on a graph in order to become more accurate.
@@wingsofpegasus check his other SOS's renditions at Paris Unesco 2017, Spirit Steppe and Digital Show 2021 and let's see whether it was live or not? Pay attention in the high notes :) the pitch was still perfect with his raw voice, jezzz :) and i just realize how dumb you are for saying that performance was recording lol (at the wedding or event) everybody knows it was obviously 1000% live
@@nickkazich1904 He could be using live autotune. It does it instantly whilst they are singing. It's a tiny box connected to the microphone. The guy recording on his phone is only recording what's coming out of the speakers (after it would be autotuned). Not saying this is autotuned, just saying it's a possibility.
All I can think about is when I was on a praise team that sang acapella the leader using a pitch pipe to get us started on the right note. It's interesting to know that no one can always hit the note all the time. Our ear hears the note and compensates. Our minds are geared towards patterns. This is how we make sense of things. I'm giving you a science lesson 😊 The natural voice is where all the personality is. How can you take that away. Also you are right. Kids who don't know about Auto Tune will have no idea that the human voice is not capable of perfect pitch. They won't understand why they can't accomplish hitting the note perfectly all the time. Thanks for another stellar video. You have such a kind and humble nature about you.
As someone who came of age during the late 60s-early 70s, and who is mainly a classical listener but still enjoys the rock of that era and the blues revival (and hates disco), I found this video fascinating and most informative. I'd heard the terms "auto-tune" and "pitch-correction" but didn't really understand them. Thanks for the demo and very clear explanations. I've been sampling your videos for a while, but you got my subscription with this one!
Dimash can sing live and a really great singer, auto tune or not, doesn't matter for me., is his team choice, Great singer can be auto tune, but bad singer do need auto tune, and they can not sing live, may by one song or two, good one may be can sing 90 min. concert, but Dimash can sing 3 hours live concert without problem, nobody is perfect, but Dimash is my favorite singer at this not perfect world time right now.
Just wanted to make a point. If you are a bad singer. Not even auto tune will make you sound good. You have to be at least a good singer for people to take notice that you can really sing. Sure auto tune can make even a very very young kid sound like his/she is on pitch, but they still don't sound like someone you'll want to listen to. The whole point of this video is to let people know that auto tune is used on most everyone at times. I was introduced to an engineer who showed me exactly how to know if someone is auto tuned or not using a graph like the one shown hear. I learned though, that if an engineer in post editing knows what he's doing not even the best ears can tell a great singer is being pitch corrected unless they can see the graph.
OK,OK, But there is more to performances than just singing. I know that sounds strange, but it's true. People watch and LOVE Dimash for the whole package. Number 1 is that he is such a phenom singer with his RANGE. Second, he sings with such EMOTION more than anyone else and third he is one of the NICEST, KINDEST person you will ever meet. AGAIN, IT"S THE WHOLE PACKAGE on why he is loved so much.
Thanks, I'm a Dimash fan and I think that it was very interesting. It's sad that nowadays autotune is becoming a reflex and automatically applied even when it's not needed at all ! Dimash really doesn't need it. He is naturally great and all the fancams of him singing backstage or at airports to his fans are proves of his talent.
Thank you Fil, for analyzing these two excellent singers, who obviously both do not need autotune!! I always thought there was a difference between perfect pitch (ear) and pitch perfect (voice). The first is the ability to identify the note without comparison with other notes (and being a crappy singer at the same time😇), the second to being able to duplicate a note to almost perfection.. Somewhere in the comments there is a request for you to check Ave Maria by Dimash. I am also quite interested. Have a great day!
When it comes to Dimash, i personally dont care if its autotune or not. So far, he is the one and only singer that sing to my soul, i feel peace and calmness whenever i listen to him and that matter most to me and nothing else
I'm totally with you, Adeline. I don't care, either. It's the final product in which I am interested and if autotune is sometimes being used to make that final product more spectacular than it would otherwise be, I'm all for it!
Personally I don't know why people like this TH-camr get such a kick out of knocking Dimash and trying to make him look bad. We all know that he was born with perfect pitch and any number of studio engineers and vocal coaches have stated that he doesn't use autotune. One clickbait video is not going to change our opinion of him.
@@debbiemorgan859 It is clearly autotuned in this performance. The whole performance is 'produced'. Backing tracks, and tons of reverb and echo at the very least. No one is knocking Dimash, who is obviously one of the best ever.
Debbie Morgan Good for you stating how you honestly feel. I’m with you all the way! That’s exactly what this all about, to make Dimash look bad. Well, it certainly did not change my mind about Dimash or his vocal abilities either. He’s still my number one despite all attempts to discredit him.
@@Igbon5 reverb and backing tracks are very different to auto tune, there are a number of songs where Dimash clearly sings his own backing vocals like Screaming, he can hardly reproduce that in a live performance without a backing track.
This channel popped up in my feed, I started watching & now... well I am absolutely loving it. Such a fascinating subject obviously I have never considered what goes into the voice, sounds, performance etc. You put it across so well & are so enthusiastic (especially the one on Queen) that I am now listening to music so differently. Thank you & I look forward to many more 🎶
Thank you, Fil. Someone has to hold the line. After all, what's wrong with the truth/reality? In my fine art classes every teacher took the time to point out there are always imperfections in every type of art. And that's what makes it art. Otherwise a machine can just mass produce it.
My first "test" is to listen with an ear towards if things sound too good. Auto tune/no auto tune plus if the vocals are being helped by a backing track. I also use the "look for mistakes" technique to try and determine if the performance is live. I don't mind voice modifications (Peter Frampton's use of a talk box) if it is clear that the modification is also part of the show. Thanks Fil.
Dan R....You mentioned "voice modifications". Putting reverb to a voice is another 'mod' that also really enhances ( whether for good or bad can be debated forever) the natural voice. I think it is real interesting to hear a singer that one is familiar with and hear their natural voice and then hear their voice with reverb added, or hear that singer sing acapella. I love acapella singing; the human voice is an amazing instrument, but I like singers in a band too, and as we just heard a little bit of with Pavarotti, I love Opera. Yea, there is Opera that I do not particularly care for; we all have our own likes & dislikes.
Listening to Pavarotti, we can hear how his mind 'finds' each note through near-instantaneous sampling the starting edge and very quickly bending it, to where it sounds 'perfect'. There's always a natural fractional time-delay as the mind 'autotunes' the emerging note via the ear-mind-vocalchord feedback loop. Computer autotune in post production allows this delay to be eliminated along with forcing that the note promptly lands perfectly. Autotune filters out the artist's subtle natural vocal pitch characteristics.
Dimash once jokingly told his fans that he is so handsome because he has a stage make-up on him 🤭. But we know about its natural beauty. This is the beauty of an imperfect person (the ideal, as you know, is unattainable). Autotune is like a make-up in music. It can make a freak pleasant. And it can also polish a little, bring to perfection what is beautiful without a make-up. Thanks for the great analysis! I liked it. It's just that Dimash, before going out into the Light (like all civilized people) preeners a little in front of the mirror 😉
I'm late to this video but I am so glad you walked through the explanation as to why this matters (one of many reasons). I'd seen a comment on another vid to the effect of, "What difference does it make...can't we just enjoy what we hear?" Fair enough if you're someone who only listens. Not fair if you're someone who aspires to be a vocalist. As you said, the technology sets the bar impossibly high and it's sad to think that a would-be singer might be discouraged or even give up because they are trying to achieve something that can't be achieved naturally.
I prefer real artists like dimash or Pavarotti to be left without autotune. They really do not need it.
Ditto. Otherwise the future will sound like Cher's first autotuned song
Dimash voice sounds worst than a dying cat, especially on the high notes, it is so nasally, Mike Patton destroys this clown Dimash.
@@singjazzy6697 you mean “dyoubleeve’n’lovaftelove”? 🤖
@singjazzy6697
Technology has moved on greatly since 1990's auto-tune which is known as the Vocoder voice effect, "Pitch Correction" is alot more subtle and discreet therefore less audible to alot of consumers.
Oh wow! I'm kind of a Dimash fan, watched loads of reactions to him and this was the best video on him I've seen. Thanks so much for explaining all that and proving your case, as some people really live in denial ;) You also made me realized that similarly to unrealistic expectations towards bodies we also have unrealistic expectations towards voices. That's so sad.
I agree, the Photoshopping of people in photographs is a similar practice to auto tuning or pitch correcting a person’s voice.
P
Ok, I think any objective viewer accepts the facts. This leads to an obvious follow up question: WHY has it become such a standard within the industry that it’s applied to an obvious vocal phenom like Dimash?
I’d love to see you interview a producer or engineer who supports the use of this technology to hear their views. Either way, Fil, this is some of the best stuff you’ve ever done. Thank you.
It's the same as with brickwall limiting, people just do it even though it objectively sounds bad. There's no good reason to do either, yet it almost seems like there's some unknown force that threaten every single engineer or producer into squeezing the life out of musical performances.
I found the explanation of Creactiva Mente (another sound engineer channel that has some videos about the subject) very plausible. He says that the abuse of the autotune effect is based primarily on the industry logic. The most popular songs of the last decade, the most listened to, are plagued with the use of the autotune effect. That is because to the ear and the mind, it's easier to retain a stable and simple sound than a complex and changeable one (like the natural human voice is). He says than in 21 century, in commercial music, for the industry there is a golden word and that is "simplicity": simple melodies, simple rythms, simple voices. What voice can be simpler than a generic and stable one? If you add a simple and catchy melody, there is a high probability that it can easily get stuck in peoples ears and mind. New generations are so used to it that they don't even notice they are listening to an artificial effect.
That is in general. About the two artists mentioned here, Pavarotti sang opera, in many occasions without amplification (but NOT always). Dimash is independent, he has not signed to any label in exclusivity because he wants to keep creative control of his music. In his own solo concerts, they use effects like reverb and delay, but not autotune. I guess that in his presentations in some other venues (Russian tv, Slavic Bazaar, New Wave, etc.), the sound is out of his control.
@@MsLucy4ever Not on New Wave or Russian TV, just on Slavic and in some Chinese productions. You can ask Creactiva Mente.
@@Chabtung You're right. But in Russian TV is worse than autotune IMO, they just use prerecorded tracks
@@MsLucy4ever Yes, but it is not autotuned. Creactiva told me he much prefers Krutoy productions to the Chinese ones, for example, because despite his love of prerecords he doesn't ever mess with Dimash's natural vocals.
Glad someone has called his music out. I knew something was off hearing his music "live". I may not be able to tell what tune is playing but I can definitely pick up when something isn't natural. It's weird but my ears can feel the sounds not just hear them. When I hear auto tune it feels like nails scratching on the chalkboard.
Wow, their voices are so beautiful without auto tune. I’ve come to the conclusion these excellent singers don’t need it. Let us hear their natural voice! Thanks Fil.
On a pragmatic note, there is no such thing as a human voice being technically pitched accurately to that of a calibrated musical intrument. You can however find singers who have an ear for excellent pitch meaning they are able to hit very close or on spot of the desired notes more often than others hence why we say they are great singers. Audio wave forms are technical data, not opinion or one's ear. I work for an electronics design and development company in the UK and engage with our electronics design engineers. We've done many audio products so yes, data don't lie. Just our ears are not perfectly calibrated. Dimash is an absolute monster of a vocalist and I've heard him sing in a home video without music, but without a reference point, it can be tricky. But even he says he is human. He sang half of SOS without music in Kazakhstan before his 2017 explosion, at a little venue. While he was very young there, it will give you an idea of his then natural singing voice. Excellent by the way. His range is phenomenal! Problem is the studios are obsessed with autotuning that even the most fantastic singers are tampered with sadly. ☹
You are correct, Sort of. You can “sync” a human voice and a keyboard (synthesizer). I believe David Foster and his “team” have actually done this. I just read a piece in MIT’s Tech journal about a group who are working on a synth that will duplicate perfectly the sound (timbre and all) of any instrument. The Fairlight was step in this direction. By the way, I wasn’t familiar with Dimash and the little I’ve heard is IMOP a freakish sounding voice I find hard to listen to. In tune naturally, imperfectly “in tune” or off key it is the tone, depth and timbre I find weird.
This whole issue is gotten into the realm of absurd.
We have been “fooling” around with the human voice since live performances (teens singing in stairwells, folks warbling in the shower) and since the beginnings of recorded music.
Put a mic on a singer and it’s off to the races so to speak.
Great comment..
Also there are times when you don't want to be pitch accurate such as in bending notes, vibrato and wavering.
@@orlock20 very true. Music in performance or especially recorded is an illusion. As you note (pun intended), there is more to a vocal performance than “pitch.” Timbre, use of falsetto, yodeling ( Mutt Lange discovered that Andrea Corr (The Corrs) could yodel and had her apply that technique to great affect in a hit song “Breathless”).
During the era of the diva, it was all about range and volume then came melisma! How a singer conveys emotion. Overused any of these techniques are annoying and obvious. The problem with Phil’s comparisons is taking singers from entirely different genres and styles each with its own conventions and most importantly, audiences. Pavarotti fronting Queen singing “ Somebody to Love” would be awful (my guess). Freddie Mercury singing a Buble’ song?
seems that differences in the length and form of the Eustachian tube tubes and structure of the cavities in the head may be why some singers seem so able to hit and hold more pleasing tones when they are using their voice, some sort of positive reinforcement is going on
It is disturbing when some people can't tell the difference between analysis and criticism, and when they uphold faith over facts.
Sports fans are the worst. So annoying.
Criticism can have two meanings. One literally is analysis in this manner. It isn’t inherently negative.
@@JoeyBoBoey even negative Criticism isn't Bad if its all facts 😂 but it hurts 😂
@@MineCraft-nz9pg
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A barroom critique, far from the detailed and seriously analyzed reality.
It really is disturbing. I agree.
Both Dimash and Pavarotti are remarkably consistent, when uncorrected. I mean, look at the evenness of those vibratos. I'm not terribly familiar with Dimash, but clearly he is a phenomenal singer. PHENOMENAL. However, your waveform illustrations are spot on. I hear no "hate" from Fil about Dimash, his voice or his singing. Fil says more than once that Dimash's and Pavarotti's pitch senses are very close. That's pretty bluidy high praise!
Great video again, Fil. OK, I'm convinced. I'm hitting the subscribe button.
Thanks!
You might know rules of logic like this: " If A, then B". In this analysis, WoP says " if A (normal voice), then B (too perfect compared to A, therefore autotune). Except that, in this case, A was wrong. A was Dimash' sick voice. To be able to make a proper " if A, then B " analysis, the recording used for A must be utmost quality, and deal with the same octave. Dimash wave sounds are very messy in mixed voice, as to be expected, but his wave pattern becomes surgically precise in head voice. So sadly, this analysis, though very interesting, to be valid, would need to use an appropriate "A".
comparing Pavarotti doing vocal warm ups and Dimash singing acapella on stage and saying that Dimash is "close" to Pavarotti? That is not objectivity. And speculating about the parts that cannot be seen on the monitor. I'm a huge fan of Pavarotti but this is not a fair comparison for this phenomenal young artist who is doing exceptional acrobatics with his voice while Pavarotti was mostly just standing still and singing perfectly using only the operatic technique. I don't hear hate either but I definitely hear prejudice, sorry.
Dimash has amazing live vocals in concerts, or just casual a capella moments behind scenes. He is always singing. 😎
I wish they would not adjust his voice in studio, because he is under-appreciated in this era of "autotune" and he has worked so hard on his craft and takes it seriously.🙄 No human pitch is truly "perfect" but he is really close....and Pavarotti is one of his inspirations.👍 His teacher identified him with "perfect pitch" at age 5 when he complained that the piano was out of tune.🤣
Do they use autotune live in his concerts?
@@sahinberga good example is dimash singing sos beautifully in the ‘world’s best’ competition where there’s no autotuning. Another one is dimash and placido Domingo singing the duet pearl fisher obviously life. You can see he does not need autotuning.
@@mariasloan2284 "He doesn't need autotuning" and "he is using autotuning" are separate things. They might be using in "world's best" because TV shows are generally infamous in using autotune/pitch correction. Almost 90% of those TV music "competition" shows use pitch correction or autotune before airing the performances.
@@sahinberg if the point is about his capability, there’s plenty of evidence that there’s no need to cast doubt as we all know that he sings acapella all the time sometimes without a mic.. Also, he’s using autotuning and he’s being autotuned are two different things. It’s unfair to the singer to make assumptions.
@@mariasloan2284 "all the time sometimes"? Your sentence itself is confusing. It was shown by pitch monitoring software analysis that he used autotune in some of his concerts, if not all.
Something I'd like to point out with regarding classical singing and Pavarotti's warm up here; In classical tenor singing we need an enormous amount of well placed breath support and airflow to be able to hit notes with full voice. While yes he was trying to hit those notes it is very likely that his goal in that exercise was moreso to get his muscles activated and get a feel of his voice during that day.
Dimash definitely doesn’t need to be auto tuned the performances are so much more emotional in natural form
Dimash, the singer, is irrelevant. What people are accustomed to hearing is Dimash "the brand," which, whether studio or live, is an auto tuned sound. His fans still believe that what they hear is actually how he sounds, so there is no incentive ($) to stop auto tuning or pitch correction. The fact that Dimash has a great stage presence is, frankly, more important to his handlers than how he sounds. But this is the music industry right now.
@@John_Malloy His fans believe......? They are not that stupid who believe in eye shut down. His concerts has thousands of viweres, thousands of mobile recording him? Have you ever thought that?
His fans could be curious or inteligent? They could check those fancams? I am so tired these type of fame seekers who uses Dimash😐
@@John_Malloy what are u talking abt? Dimash is actually the only artist who is moving the opposite direction of music industry flow, if not so he would have been deservingly a world wide super star by now
@@kaiumuzzaman8709 well said my friend thank u
kaiumuz zaman Thats exactly how I feel.
I find this analysis fascinating, I'm not an engineer or musician, just a fan who over thinks everything. One of the things I've said for years is how modern music all sounds the same, and how I can't tell who I'm listening to on the radio. I'm exaggerating to be fair as they don't sound identical but as someone who grew up listening to music like Iron Maiden in the 80's something sounded off with modern musicians. After watching this, and your last video it seems obvious to me what my layman brain is trying to tell me, what my ears are reacting to is pitch correction and auto-tune and it's homogenizing effects on music. It's such a shame this has become so common.
As a side note as well, I already have about 5,000 reason why I hate modern talent shows like X-Factor but this is a big one. How some 2 pence pop singer can sit and judge some poor kid's voice while all the time knowing their own material is "augmented" is hypocrisy at it's finest.
Iron Maiden is not a pop or too forty or adult contemporary group. Apples and oranges is a huge problem with these analogies. Every music genre has its conventions.
@@JohnLnyc I disagree, just because I mentioned one band doesn't mean my point is specific to just that band. You can pick any band or artist from 35 years ago and it would be the exact same point.
As a perfect example I love Andy Bell's voice, it's not perfect and he never tried to make it perfect, especially live. It is however natural and full of emotion and as a result, much more interesting than any augmented singers I hear today, at least to me.
@@butIwantpewee He does have a nice voice and singing style. However digital vocal tuning didn’t appear until after 1998. You picked an interesting case. His later and more recent efforts have auto tune all over them. The fly in the ointment though is a change from the more classic synth driven dance pop to a more hardcore dance style.
And that’s my point. But first, vocals were “shaped” using different techniques pre digital. The musical genre counts. Production is shaped by the market and the market has changed since 35 years ago. Andy’s more recent efforts are fitting into a more modern sound. I agree his earlier efforts are different. My take is the Erasure Andy is eminently listenable (you can dance to it as well), The later efforts are heavy dance with vocals in a less interesting but more modern style.
@@JohnLnyc their point has nothing to do with genre
@@lolawants2008 who’s point? My point is much different types of music or genres have their recording conventions. Not sure what you are saying here.
As a classically trained musician, my understanding of perfect pitch is nothing to with pitching your voice perfectly -- not about about singing perfectly in tune. It's about recognising a note as e.g. A or F# or being able to pitch a named note in isolation. Someone can sing brilliantly in tune (can pitch perfectly) but be unable to sing an F# to order. And vice versa!
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Yes that's correct, a lot refer to it as hitting pitches vocally, which is technically not true so I have explained it in other videos 🙂
Ye I can sing A2 and B2 G2 with no references (pretty close to them alteast) but I don't have perfect pitch
Having perfect pitch (in terms of recognizing notes, not necessarily singing them) is not always such a good thing. I have very strong relative pitch sense and it makes me uncomfortable when a guitar string or any other instrument isn’t in tune relatively with itself or other instruments. Imagine someone with perfect pitch trying to play a piano or other instrument that’s even slightly out of tune, and how painful that would be for them?
@@justintime42000 Yes it can be quite frustrating, my Dad had it and he played in an orchestra I remember him commenting about it!
@jinnyfisher4343 Thank you! I, too, am classically trained and came here to say the same thing.
@Wings of Pegasus, Fil, had never heard of Dimash before. Thank you for introducing me to this artist!
I always think I can't watch these long analyses but then I do watch and enjoy. Love the deep dive and how you make me understand that which I don't think I will understand. Just subscribed. Thanks for your work FIL!❤️
Hey! Hey! Hey! Fil, congrats on the 200,000 subscribers 🎉
Thank you for showing us how auto-tune works. It's a very interesting topic.
Pavarotti, I love!
Dimash, what a voice he has. I didn't know him.
Ready to party tomorrow on the Live Stream. Who'll win the guitar? 🖤🤘🏽
Congratulations on 200k subs, Fil! I'm so happy for you and thrilled that I discovered you! This was another fascinating analysis. Shared!
Well DimashK is perfect to my 60year old ears and that’s enough for me 👍🏾👍🏾His singing 🎶🎵is divine. Love your explanation Fil. Fan from NZ
I can't stand an auto-tuned or pitch corrected voice. The part at 25:33, I heard it live in NY, and it was such a shocking moment, because live it sounded so rich, so powerful, so amazing. I remember exclaiming WOW, because I totally wasn't expecting that, based on the version I was used to hearing. In his solo concerts we hear his natural voice (and I prefer fancams to the finished product after). Another note is that even all the fancams and videos you can find on youtube with his unaltered voice, when listening to them it's a wonderful experience, but any speakers or headphones we may have do no justice to how MAGNIFICENT he sounds live. And one more note, he did say in an interview that he's not a fan of altered voices, and that these days anyone can become a singer. He did practice his craft from a young age, and is classically trained. It's really a shame when his raw vocals are put through autotune or pitch correction. Really such a shame! p.s. Another singer who I love, whose real voice we get to hear, is Eva Ayllon from Peru, a living legend. p.p.s. It would be so nice if you could find more unaltered performances from Dimash and include that in a video. :)
Hi Chelsea, thx for the"tip" bringing Eva Ayllon to attention. A bit to my shame I hadn't heard of her before. But that was untill now. What I've seen in just a few short views of one or two live-clips, is what I really love about real great artists: true appreciation of their musicians (and showing it) and true contact with the fans/public (and feeling it). Much like Patti LaBelle, for example, who -like Dimash- is also born on May 24th (only 50 years in between haha). And I am craaaazy of the both of them. Adding Eva doesn't seem like a bad choice at all, lol. So again: muchas gracias Chelsea! :-D
@@sanderdegroot6628 Awwww, thanks so much for your reply and for checking out Eva!! :) I'm overjoyed every time she gains a new fan! In Peru she is HUGE, and recently she received a life time achievement award from the Latin Grammys. But outside of Latin America, she is largely unknown and it's such a shame! Oh totally, as you say, she connects with the audience 100%, and shows appreciation of her musicians throughout the concert (and in real life too). Her singing is superb and so unique. With some performances I melt with the first note! I don't know where you are in this world, but she is having a mini tour in the US right now I think. Patti LaBelle, wow!! I used to listen to soul music and ONLY soul music for a while. I know all the greats. Still one of my favourite singing styles. :)) And holy cow, I didn't know she has the same bday as Dimash. That's awesome! Imagine if they sang something together? Meanwhile, I'm waiting for an Eva Dimash duet to happen. So, Eva was my fave singer, until I discovered Dimash. Now they both are. And... guess who was the only celebrity to attend Dimash's NY concert and post about it on social media? Eva!! I'm waiting for my dream come true to happen.....
Я тоже люблю фанкамы...Только я не понимала в чем причина, почему такое разное звучание..
The part at 25:33 you refer to has been repeated by Dimash many times in performances that are NOT autotuned so I am sure the uploader does not realise this.
In a separate post I included some old links, but he's even more precise now. I also get a bit annoyed at TH-cam reviewers of Ave Maria who think it must be autotuned when, again, there are old videos of him practising those voice techniques perfectly. The other thing about Ave Maria is that he does not wear in-ear monitors, so he has no reference point. In fact, towards the end of Ave Maria there is an aural "marker" for him when you hear a BELL ring for a second, so he knows how much longer is left.
@@remakeit2628 what a clever timing trick. Dimash is just awesome, thanks for sharing.
Thank you!! An absolutely fascinating deep delve into auto tune and pitch correction (and the disservice it does to both established artists and up and coming singers). I totally agree with you that it is a great shame that a singer like Dimash gets autotuned (by others!!!) when he doesn't need it. His natural voice is beautiful and incredible enough.
We are so used to thinking that spot on note perfection is the goal, when in fact it is expression and emotional connection that most of us are searching for. Sadly many producers just don't get it. Personally I think it is due to needing a very technically oriented mind to be a sound engineer or producer. Their nature is to strive for technical perfection. Emotion is frequently ignored and vocal errors cannot be allowed. It's all ironed out.
I worked for many years with a creative as a producer and he wasn't like that. He had arguments with other producers and sound engineers over what to leave in, what to correct and what to change in a studio take. He internally 'knew'when a take was the right one, because it touched him emotionally. It was sometimes a take that others would easily have thrown out. He always said for him the perfection was in the imperfection. Everyone can sing perfectly with today's technology, so what is the difference between you and everyone else if you simply copy that? Humans are not perfect! Imperfections in the singing wake you up, they make you listen, they break through the barriers. Leave them in and connect fully.
Yay Phil - ♥️ Dimash & Pavarotti. Fun fact; Pavarotti is 1of 2 of Dimash’s Fav Artists, so imo perfect comparison. THX’s loved video.. ur 1 of the Best & didn’t disappoint .. Well done! Hope fans get that ur complimenting Dimash!✌️♥️
Wow. You are putting Dimash at the same level as the great Pavarotti. What a great complement. 2 of the Greatest Of All Time.
especially since Dimash is like 27. He has his entire career in front of him
Compliment
" ...great _compliment_ ."
Has Dimash ever recorded Mes a Mi, the aria with all the high Cs? I would love to compare them back to back. That said, Dimash wins hands down on range and versatility, but I give Pavarotti the edge on timbre.
Amazing! Not a musician and had no idea what a science there is behind the sound. Loove Pavorati. Never heard of Dimash but looking him up now! thank you for the exposure and analysis. Also a fan of your work too! so fun and interesting!
I'm a Dimash fan and love your explanations, it's always good to learn something, in this case, how things work in a studio. And forget about the negative comments and abuse. It's sad but there are some 'Dearzillas' around who don't represent him or the rest of us. Good job mate!
I love listening to Dimash. His range is unreal. His live shows are so full on.
As a major fan of Dimash, thank you for your video. I must say: I heard Dimash live in NY and he was SPECTACULAR - with unmatched range, beauty of voice, quick recovery between songs, etc. - a vocal powerhouse - who greatly impressed my friend who had never heard him before. People should realize that good producers use every tool in their arsenal to 'polish' a product EVEN when it's unnecessary. As a painter EVERY printer I used ALWAYS tried to 'polish' reproductions of my paintings by 'upping' this color or that - according to their liking, industry standards, etc. The only way to completely control your product from beginning to end is to be both the 'originator' AND the 'producer'. Usually impossible. Dimash has great producers - who mostly get their 'calls' right - but maybe sometimes they overdo autotune. But at Dimash's concerts (without autotune) thousands of his fans go absolutely wild over his beautiful singing. No matter what - he's the greatest. (And yes - that's my opinion.)
Hi, I was also at Dimash’s concert in NYC. My husband who wasn’t a fan at the time accompanied me and couldn’t believe how beautiful of a voice he was hearing. Yes, Dimash voice is that SPECTACULAR! We have never heard a voice as delicate and yet as strong as Dimash’s! He’s the real deal when it comes to vocal abilities and true talent. It’s just in IMOP, people can’t seem to come that that realization. As far as I’m concerned, he’s the greatest. Period!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 I sooo agree! We've NEVER seen anyone with his vocal abilities! And have you noticed that he NEVER stumbles or 'mis-steps'?! I mean, he jumps, runs, etc on stage and he never falters. He's a phenomenon and aren't we blessed that we got to see him live?! I'm glad to 'meet' a fellow fan who was also at the same concert! We're fans for life, aren't we?! (And boy did I have a hard time getting to that concert - and at the last minute I had to pay the outrageous price of $!,000 a night for a tiny hotel room!) But it was worth it!! :)
k.gail Yes, I’m definitely a fan and do not consider myself a fanatic as some might address his dears. I’ve always loved listening to music from my youth and still do to this day. Never in my lifetime have I heard someone like Dimash. Of course there are and have been plenty of wonderful artists that I’ve definitely enjoyed. However, I’ve yet to witness someone who has such power and who can also sing as delicate in a moments time, and at their command as Dimash does. IMOP, what’s made other artists so well known and popular, is their songs that were written for them. I honestly believe that Dimash can sing them all, and better. The only critique that I have, is his pronunciation/ enunciation of the English language as much as I hate to admit it. Once he’s able to master that, he’s GOLDEN here in the West. Subsequently, even with that, one can not deny his masterful vocal abilities. His sound, tone, and every other aspect about his voice is astoundingly beautiful and magnificent! I’m sorry to hear that you had such difficulties getting to his concert. I too had a bit myself. I barely had anytime to even rest in my dinky hotel room as I was also on the road which seemed to be a life time of travel. I also agree with you that it was all worth it though. Listening and actually witnessing Dimash sing live is in it self, hard to describe and even comprehend at times. I so now understand why people travel across the globe. He is as unique and is as talented as one can imagine with that gorgeous voice of his. I’d definitely do it all over again and as a matter fact, I can’t wait till I do!!!!!
@@ceceliaoliveira4550 You know, it's a mystery how God uses people: In 1981, when I was 25, I had a life-after-death experience where God's angels came and took me to heaven where I stood face to face with Him and Jesus. Fast forward to 2018 when I saw Dimash singing SOS on the Singer show: I was stunned because he looked exactly like the angel who had carried me to heaven and brought me back all those years ago! (In 40 years of me telling my story I've NEVER said such a thing!) So, who really knows?! Maybe he IS the angel, fully capable of singing perfectly pitched notes - or God is simply working through this talented young man.. Either way, Dimash IS a gift from God! (I'm trying to make a full, detailed video of my experience for TH-cam - but it's hard because I'm not so modernly technical!) But anyway that's my story - and why I'm so fascinated with Dimash, besides his out of this world talent.
k.gail Oh dear, I’m so intrigued by your story. I’m so glad to hear that your ok. Thank God! It must of been wonderful in the sense, that you saw Jesus and the beautiful angel, that took you from your most unfortunate death experience, to whom would give you life again. I too often wonder, if God does use individuals here on earth in specific ways that we can’t foresee. I’ve often heard the phrase, that miracles happen every day and what your sharing appears to have been one of them. I’m sure you will never forget, this moment in your life, and that your memory of it, will most likely never diminish. So, perhaps the angle that you saw and that appeared to look like Dimash, may have been who you recall seeing. Dimash does have beautiful traits. I don’t think anyone can argue that! Many actually have compared him to an angel expressing their emotions while listening and watching him sing. I have to admit, I’ve had thoughts myself with my own admiration of him. He (Dimash) does certainly display astounding and pure loving characteristics that are difficult to understand or resist. Anyway, I’m so happy that your alright, and you my dear have been blessed in so many ways! I also thank you for sharing this personal experience with me. I too feel blessed some how. 🙏🏻
I found Wings of Pegusas and then Dimash. Enjoy them both. Keep up the good work.
Back in college, our choir director taught us to “think high” on ascending phrases, to essentially stretch our pitch slightly upwards to counter the natural tendency to go slightly flat. Conversely, we tried to push pitch slightly down on descending phrases to avoid going slightly sharp. It wasn’t that we were terribly off-pitch, it was just trying to get us thinking about pitch, and to not get lazy, especially on longer phrases and runs. It also kept us listening to those around us as we sang. These videos are very interesting.
Yes yes yes - this too is how I was taught! Gosh it's good to see what you have done Fil Thank you You explain things really really well :D
lucky you... my choir director told me 'to be quiet till Easter' - i guess i needed autotuning
I prefer Dimash's lower register. Can you imagine how different the world would be if they had auto-tuned Janis Joplin, Sarah Vaughan, Tony Bennett, Billie Holiday? It really does take the soul and feeling out of music nowadays. The great Harry Nilsson was another one that I'd like you to examine at some point.
I really enjoy your videos.
Thanks Fil, always keeping it honest, respectful and real.
The most valuable part of perfect pitch is the ability to identify a note by hearing it. For a musician this is "context". If some singer is having an amazing singing performance and suddenly swallows some spit i do not mind a pitch touch up, but as you say it's not probable that anyone can hit every note precisely in a whole piece. One of the comments was also quite valid that it's a disservice to the singer who is really close but some ambitious engineer or producer decides it needs to be perfect. This is the same quandry that presents itself when drums are "dead on". It ruins the humanity of it all. Great piece Fil. Sorry you'll get some abuse for this but...they just don't "feel" the music like some of us do. Cheers!
Ok but Have u listen to some of Dimash kudaibergens songs allowing urself to accuse others not feeling music in a proper way?
@@lilym1421 I am not accusing anyone of anything. Some people like lyrics, some people like beats, some people like perfection. All I was saying was there is a certain "organic" element that has a different feel than perfection and some of us prefer that. As an example, I listened to the Eagles farewell tour, I think it was in Australia, and everything was perfect, the sound, the music, the harmonies etc and although I really enjoyed it, it seemed too perfect. That's all I was saying. No offense intended toward anyone. There is no proper way to enjoy art as far as I know, it's a personal experience. Keep enjoying the art and have a fabulous day.
@@ronb5949 Your explanation is valid and believable ( and I completely agree) but that last line of your initial comment did sound like it was initially taken.
Personally I enjoyed lots of aspects of music but any enjoyed of the beat is ruined for me by the electronic beats. I will take a live stand up bass or real drums anytime but those are harder to find these days.
@@yardengali Dimash has an excellent live band in all his concerts, with a killer drummer and percussionist...everything one can imagine to the saxophone and ethnic Kazakh instruments, sometimes even the whole live orchestra... He himself is all-around musician and multi-instrumentalist. Just saying... ;)
@@paivyt. No worries, I am a fan and know Dimash is a great singer and a musician aswell. He is not who I was thinking of when writing my comment. I also know of some other excellent artists today. I was more thinking of today's general western popular musicscene. As compared to prior to the introduction of an overuse of technology in order to turn mediocrity into " stars". No doubt because people without actual artistry are way more easily manipulated and shoved into a mould.
Now I understand why some call you "Professor"!! Another great lesson learned. And congratulations on hitting 200,000 subscribers 🤘
Very interesting, great to hear from an expert. Wonderful seeing Pavarotti and Dimash on the same page. I had the thrill of attending a Dimash concert 2019 in New York and I understand what you are saying totally. However he entertains his devoted audience 100%. And his vocal skills are amazing. Then add his warm personality and his excitement being on stage in NY - I’m looking forward to his next concert. Have you listened to his vocalisation of “Know”. That is one of his marvellous performances. 🤗🤗🤗
Wow - your explanation of Dimash's autotuned recordings really, really hit home with me! I always felt his voice is too mechanical. But your explanation of how autotune is used in his recordings made me explore more of his live performances, and now I see how wonderful he is. What a shame that these engineering tools are abusing singers' talents.
Ich finde das eine sehr interessante Analyse und ich bin überzeugt, dass diese "Korrekturen" bei allen Sängern viel öfter eingesetzt werden, als man glaubt. Das die menschliche Stimme kein Computer ist, ist auch klar. Was ich wirklich schade finde, ist dass für die Analyse der "natürlichen" Stimme eine Aufnahme genommen wurde, bei der Dimash nachweislich krank war. Das rückt den Eindruck der Objektivität etwas in's schiefe Licht. Trotzdem ein gelungener Beitrag, Dankeschön. Ich glaube die Begeisterung über Dimash liegt daran, dass er so viele unterschiedliche Gesangstechniken in einem unglaublichen Stimmumfang fast perfekt umsetzen kann. Diese Bandbreite ist absolut beeindruckend.
... und um ehrlich zu sein: auch wenn einem die Zeit dafür fehlt, passendes Material für die Analyse selber heraus zusuchen, oder zu überprüfen, müsste man vielleicht in weiterer Folge - rein zur objektiven Information Ihrer Zuseher - die Information, dass Dimash bei der Aufnahme ernsthaft erkrankt war, nachreichen, sprich anpinnen. Dann würde diese Analyse noch professioneller werden ... nur meine persönliche Meinung ✌💙
@@aivlysregenstern2668, wenn man's nicht weiß, würde man einfach nicht draufkommen, dass er krank war. Weil der Mann einfach so unfassbar gut ist. ;-)
Да! Я не ошиблась, это именно та запись из Китая, где он пел с больным горлом. Было видно,что голос не слушается и ему тяжело петь. Он просто не смог обидеть тех, кто пришел увидеться с ним и спел немного акапелло. Это было очень трогательно. И, конечно, такое выступление нельзя расценивать как показатель реальных возможностей вокалиста.
@@aivlysregenstern2668 Ob er krank war oder nicht, sollte nicht berücksichtigt werden. Es kann nicht nachgewiesen werden, dass seine Leistung besser gewesen wäre. Seine Krankheit überhaupt zu erwähnen, ist es ein Beurteilungspotential, das nie gezeigt wurde. Das ist die Erhebung eines bloßen Menschen zu Gott. Wenn es bessere Leistungen gibt, als er nicht krank war, dann lass diese für ihn sprechen - nicht die Annahmen von Leuten, die ihn noch größer haben wollen, als er ist.
Just to say-you’re doing fantastic work with this series. Keep it up!
One thing to keep in mind is that classical musicians, especially singers and string players, tend to gravitate toward what is know as “just intonation” for the given key they are in. This means certain notes (mainly 3rds, 6ths, etc., though not octaves or 5ths generally) are mathematically more in tune for that key, but would be more out of tune than usual in the context of some other key. Pitch meters are almost always measuring the compromise of equal temperament (which modern pianos are typically tuned to), in which every scale or key is equally out of tune. So when a pitch meter says someone is out of tune, sometimes the pitch meter itself is just wrong, because it’s expecting the note to be slightly out of tune, and will say it’s off when in fact it is perfectly in tune within the context of a given scale.
A second thing is that not all pianos and particularly not all orchestras tune to A=440. So if everything is sharp or everything is flat, it could be that the pitch meter just wasn’t calibrated to the pitch center the music is being played at.
Similarly, singers and instrumental soloists may intentionally exaggerate pitch fluctuations (particularly sharpness) to produce emotional effects. That said, nobody is perfect, and particularly in quick notes or big leaps, accuracy is often pretty spotty. But it might still sound in tune because the pitch isn’t actually staying the same, there are slides, glissandos, portamento into or out of a note. So at some point in there it may go through the correct pitch, and in combination with vibrato, it may sound correct even if very little of the time actually hits the pitch.
While you’re right that it would be terrible to pitch correct something that a singer can almost never hit, the reality is usually more like correcting some of the natural fluctuations and mistakes in a given take. Meaning notes which the singer hits 9 out of 10 times perfectly, but happened to miss in this particular take. The usual alternatives would be to do 100 takes until one is absolutely perfect from beginning to end, or else record a few takes, then edit them together to remove any flaws from the main take by replacing those bits with that part of some other take where that mistake didn’t occur. Sometimes a bit of pitch correction is quicker and easier and more seamless than editing in the note from another take or recording 50 more takes.
Good points. It's very true. Guitarists and other non classical musicians live with imperfect pitches but there's really no other way to play in different keys. All one has to do is listen to someone like Steve Vai playing with an orchestra to realise that something's not right.
Minor touch ups are fine deliberately messing around and making something unnatural isn’t
I can't speak for Autotune, but the pitch correction plugins that comes with the Reaper DAW and TC Helicon's vocal pitch correction gear all alow the selection of the key as well as a chromatic option.
You saved me a whole lot of writing! As a fan of Pavarotti's, I can say that he often sings microtonally sharp, producing a very characteristic "bright" sound. It may also be that it helps him to cut through the sound of the orchestra better. Note that in the clip. the piano note was very flat in comparison to Pavarotti, but after playing the note Pavarotti made no attempt whatsoever to tune to that note. (Or if he was tuning to it, he was maintaining the same "sharpness" relative to that note.)
You bring to my mind , this wierd phenomena that has developed in this studio music . The sound engineers have a habit of blanket auto tuning . I guess what I'm saying is , rather than touch up the one or two out of tune notes in a studio performance. The engineer simply coats the whole performance in auto tune . My thinking is , it's simply engineers being repetitive in their editing job , in essence . Doing the same process over and over in a job .
In fact, these are all words. To understand what an artist is worth, you need to attend his concert. I also thought that I would go to one concert and it would be enough for me .. But no ... I want to listen to this voice and this singing again and again .. Maybe that's why people, having visited his concert once, then constantly go to all his concerts.
exactly. that's why I visited all the solo concerts of dimash 2019.
Is that why so many people went to thousands of Grateful Dead concerts?
@@quitwastinmytime what was the point of that question
You nailed it Fil, the human voice does lose it’s humanity when it is auto tuned and/or pitch corrected. We come for the soul,the emotion of the singers REAL voice.
Whether natural or auto tuned, Dimash sounds perfect to me and just listening to his songs transports me to different beautiful places....
I think the point is that your not actually listening to Dimash.
@@archstanton1628 are you daft? I listen to Dimash everyday...even my car usb has only Dimash!
@@archstanton1628 "... _you're_ not..."
@@dearm7678 you obviously missed arch Stanton's point. It might help to not take personally someone else's opinion about someone you admire. Just a thought. ✌
@@archstanton1628 You whant to hear Dimash sing? You can. Check this link th-cam.com/video/nAQOLe9mKsc/w-d-xo.html If Dimash can't sing than Bocelli and Lara Fabian can't sing. But i can name many more.
I'm not a Dimash fan but can appreciate his vocal range. Very interesting video. Thank you 😁👍
Entre tantos videos que tiene Dimash encontraste solo ese ,que por cierto estaba enfermo ,Pabarotti el maestro y Dimash Es Unico ,Saludos
I applaud you Fil. You are amazing! 👏 I'm learning from you all the time. Thank you.
Thank you so much! I always tried to put my finger on the reason why "old" vocal recordings give me so much emotion and chills whilst "new" ones most of the time just sound sterile to me (even though the singer might be a great one). By the way: You are an amazing artist aswell!! Keep up the great work!
Thanks!
@@wingsofpegasus You really opened my eyes (ermm... or ears :) )
Its all about the feel of the music for me. Thanks for your vids I learn so much!
Thanks for the non-auto tuned snippets of Pavarotti and Dimash! Both so impressive.
May I just point out that the first Dimash clip was sung in mandarin chinese, which relies on tonal changes per word in order to have a meaning… If he held the note without flexing up or down in tone, he would be singing a different word from what the lyrics need… The second clip was probably in a non-tonal language.
The SOS clip, sounds so nice. You could be right that it’s processed. Though Dimash sings all those songs live as well.
The more I think of this analysis, the faultier I see it. In fact, to compare Dimash's voice with Pavaroti for capacity to hit pitch, that was ok.
Where the analysis fails is in "normal vs autotune" Dimash. WoP claims that since "normal" is uneven looking, then the more "perfect looking" notes are pitch corrected (not autotuned, but WoP flips back and forth between these two different practices). Trouble is four fold:
1-"normal" was in fact sick.
2-different octaves don't have same quality
3-different languages have different singing styles
4-WoP recognises that Dimash sick/"normal" pitch is often perfect, then insists that in the French song, because the vibratos are more often perfect, they are pitch corrected, that makes no sense.
WoP starts by telling us the difference between autotune and post pitch correction, and then by the end of the video, he's claiming both pitch correction and autotune.
Even in sick mode, Dimash's notes were nearly all pitch perfect, yet WoP focuses on the imperfect ones, to make claims.
It's such a small snippet. Really not a valid analysis to make grand statements.
Adoro a Pavarroti pero Dimash Qudaibegen gano mi corazón y mi alma ❤️🇦🇷 vayan a escucharlo en vivo a ver si usa autotun
Thanks for the introduction - I had never heard of Damash. Will look for his endeavors
I appreciate Dimash even more after watching this. Thank you for the analysis 🧐. Dimash is amazing. Bravo.
I have to say both these men have crazy good vocal agility.
Great analysis, man. I think most of this generation artists use pitch correction. Actually, I think Dimash doesn't even need it cause I have seen him live singing SOS without a mic. Man, he sounds the same, which our ears can't even tell he isn't pitch-perfect or not. That how good he is.
So doing such a great job with the extremely wide vocal range that he has, and even sings in many genres, I believe he is the greatest or the most talented vocalist.
Can you do this type of video of him without autotune to see how he does on the stage? There are videos of him singing without music.
Unfortunate he lip sings frequently and in some recordings videos he's post auto tuned. No doubt.
Just because "he doesn't need it," that doesn't mean he doesn't use it.
@@AlfredoEClark Dimash is a high note artist as Vitas once was. Their audience are craving for higher and higher notes and a "perfectness" that doesn't exist in human voices. They are marketed with alien capabilities.
@@yogajedi3337 That is a misudnerstanding statement. Do more research. Also, you probably only watched his Igor Krutoy's performances, because the composer forbid Dimash to sing his songs live.
I learn something every time I tune in. Kudos on 200K
You should check out the singers that make it to the top of the Billboard. How many of them really sing?
Amen.
none?
Yup agree he should do that👍
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼😆😆😆
@@robclark3095 ed sheeran: ahem
I think best dimash sing s.o.s live that i found on yt...when he sung that song that someone recorded to see ochestra plyr reaction.
What you are doing with these pitch analysis videos is fascinating and enlightening. Your point of view is heartfelt and coming from a place of integrity. Technology is so very seductive and far too many people are being corrupted by it.
Thank you…. I adore Dimash and appreciate your analysis. I would love love to see him live where there is no autocorrecting.
One thing about Dimash is that he sings constantly. All of the time. And anyone who has listened to him and follows him has heard him over and over and over again singing perfectly live and not auto tuned. I do not know why anyone has chosen to do this to Dimash. From what he has said in the past, it is hard to believe that he is o.k. with this. He has worked way to hard every day of his entire life not to want to be heard naturally. His voice is amazing and unmatched. And it is that way when there has been no alterations. Thank you
It's the bitterness. And obviously being defensive.
This was a pathetic attempt at "analyses".
So many things wrong in this analysis. Comapring Pavarotti warming up vs Dimash singing an actual song then comapring that song to a completely different song.
This was a bias analysis to support his perspective. I unsubscribed for this reason. I thought this guy was legit but being defensive takes away his merit.
Lol why are you mad? That version of sos was so clearly tuned. And i LOVE Dimash.
@@JJ-xi1xd Try to relax! He wasn’t comparing the voices for quality or artistry. It’s just instructive for all of us! Two great singers!
@@dcazador7401 instructive how? is he teaching us about auto tuning? what is he illustrating here exactly? cause based on his intro, it's a lot about Dimash.
Not sure exactly what his point is?
@@ameladolnz7784 did i argue that?
his comparison to Pavarotti clearly has undertones. whether intentional or not. but it's clear he's being defensive on his previous statements about Dimash.
he could have chose a different artist to illustrate the difference between a natural singing voice vs autotune, let's say Taylor Swift.
then his point is clear about autotune.
you don't need two artists to illustrate it. else, it will be about comparing those two artists.
he's almost implying that Dimash "autotunes" which discredit the fact that Dimash has something special and unique,; and discredits Dimash vocal ability.
he's not saying that directly, but what was his point of "this" analysis exactly?
I love Dimash singing what ever you say...he is amazing ....never he say he is perfect he always try his best...Respect
I don’t think current audio engineers know how to not use Autotune. Its almost as if the sound guys feel they need to justify their fee. I don’t want to listen to sanitized music.
I agree. Pretty sure it started out as a way of fixing a recording that had a few bad notes, instead of having to record the song over. But now I think they do it to tracks without even thinking about whether they're close enough without it.
Obviously, being close to the note without being tuned is the ideal case, both because that means your singing well and because you get all the little fluctuations that help comunicate emotion, etc.
@@deltab9768 ,the weird thing is that perfection do not even sound better. The human unperfection is what makes us connect with music. We are humans designed to be a part of the nature and nothing in the nature are perfect. A forest with only perfect symmetrical, 100% similar trees in perfect lines?
Music is actually funny, the musicians think they need computers to get absoluty perfect timing and pitch, but pay high prices for old worn and scratched instruments because they cooler than a new and perfect. You can even buy your factory new guitar "factory scatched" so it look old and worn, for a raised price.
This was a fantastic analysis, Fil and I learned so much from it. Thank you! 🙌🏼
Thank you I love Dimash even more 1️⃣ the best unique the only Dimash😍
There are a lot of vídeos of dimash singing without a music on the background, just him, and its pure perfection.
Thanks for the analysis, Dimash is my favourite singer and I listen to him in daily basis😊
Great analysis. I remain a Dimash fan because you can see how much he has improved his techniques with time and produced some highly emotional performances. As you say it is a shame for the artist and the audience online when producers step in and try to enhance the recording we see in this way. Also most noticable in some of the junior competitions viewable online too. Thanks, John
What an education this commentary is - I just thought Dimash had an odd sound, but now I understand it's the Correcting and Automating that I'm hearing. I connect much better with his unadulterated voice and wish I could hear more of that! Really appreciated hearing the Pavarotti warm-up session and the nuanced comparison of two amazing voices.
I am a new fan of your channel and totally agree with your thesis and enjoy your analysis.
One quibble: When you play an excellent singer warming up or singing a cappella without reference backing tracks, the likelihood of natural variance is much higher than how they would naturally sound with reference notes that show them the real pitch of every note, right?
This isn't to say the real performance isn't wildly variant but it should be much less so with instrumental references which are often perfectly tuned to 440, like keyboards.
Also a vocalist warming up is maybe still stretching to get his or her voice in tune.
It is hard to produce such content though since every live or studio recording could be digitally altered or get instrumental interference. Would be cool if more producers released the unedited "real" tracks for such educational content.
Вы не нормальный?! Привет из России! 🇷🇺!!!
Brilliant, Fil. You’re providing a great service to music lovers.
For more amazing ‘Dimash uses his hands to help him tune’ examples, look at his most recent drop of SCREAMING (2021 DIGITAL CONCERT). So many fantastic nuanced hand movements 🙌🏼👌🏼
i remember Paul Gilbert once said ' if you can't play it live don't record it', and he was talking about all the punch-ins and digital ways of merging and consolidating various regions together to get a fine track
Paul Gilbert is absolutly 100% spot on! I don't mind if people miss a note or two, but it seems some are totally incapable of bringing a song live 😖
Where you pointed out pitch correction, the vibrato was ranging a half step above AND below the note. In the live performance, his vibrato ranged only over a half step with the bottom of the vibrato often being almost directly on the note which is probably why it doesn't jump out as incorrect...his own version of "auto tune"?
As a brass player, everything you said was absolutely right on. So glad somebody is shining some light on auto tuning. I really enjoy your videos and comments. If you can, would you listen to So Hyang's live performance of Arirang Alone and see if this is natural or auto tuned. She has been said to be the female Dimash. Blessings to you.
Dimash no necesita auto tune;es el auto tune el que necesita a Dimash;ya está bien hacer vídeos así para ganar visualizaciones😣😣😣😣.
There is an isolated vocals SOS video from 2016 called "Dimash SOS A capella." I'd love to see a video analyzing his notes there. Would be so interesting!
It is the Imperfections on Vocals and Instruments , that Connects with Emotion .
A Great Singer Without Autotune Reaches ppls Emotions, the same with clic tracs with every single note Spot On It Lacks Emotion and sounds Unnatural to the Human Ear , being on beat with a Drummer is natural to the ear ,
Clic track the Rhythm is precise and Unnatural .
Music now is Recorded 1 person At a Time , Not the Whole Band where the Recording Catches the Spark Of The Band , Magic of Playing Together
please do the VITAS, my ears and eyes tell me he lip-sync quit a bit, but I want to see the fact. Great video. I'm a Dimash "music" fan, but I sometimes feel awkward when people call him the best in the world and recommend other youtuber clearly autotuned music clip. I love his music, and happy to see his music career grow.
Regarding pitch correction, and artists therefore not being able to hit the notes live: That is far from always the case.
In many cases, pitch correction/tuning is used to achieve a certain sound, a certain feel. Out of dozens of takes, the producer might choose a particular take where the emotion conveyed by the artist was exactly what they were looking for, but didn't quite manage to hit the correct notes, over other takes where the notes were hit far more accurately, but without the right emotional content.
That take would then be pitch corrected, and that would be the end result that is put on the record(this is simplified quite a bit).
If they are going for quite a 'pop' feel to the music, then tuning will likely be used, even when the artist is very much capable of hitting the notes, while other types of music will lean towards using it less, if at all.
That said, major kudos for actually explaining tuning/pitch correction. Now we just need someone to explain that effects(like reverb) does not equal tuning(as many morons online seem to think, if you see any song or cover, that has any kind of effect added, it will have tons of morons shouting 'auto-tune!!!')
I'm big fan of Dimash no Backclash. Facts are the facts. Thank you being objective. For me, Dimash is still the greatest singer I ever heard through my lifetime.
I prefer Beth Hart. However, Diana Ankudinova is probably he best new singer although I don't like her taste in music so far.
I agree!
No autotune here. th-cam.com/video/V-77sjOWCkQ/w-d-xo.html
I was at Dimash's concerts. And always next to the stage. Concerts are always live. And the voice sounds much more voluminous than in any recording. Note to note.
"Perfectionism is the satin lined casket of creativity and originality"-unknown. However, we can strive for it, in order to get better. . But the saying is that, progress is better than perfection. I mean singing (any art) is not equivalent to building a airplane engine (where perfection is needed) And I've noticed that the best (in a creative way), are kind of imperfect-which is different from just good enough. Sure, PERFECT is real, but not only are there many correct, but different ways to do something, perfectionism has it's contained place in life -it gives you the drive, but is it the end all?. And once you think you have reached it, you probably can do better and/or someone has done better (subjective). Such a deep concept to understand
If the intervals between notes are consistent, it will still sound good to the ears even if it isn't technically right on the modern standard for the notes. That's how an orchestra can tune to match the piano (which may or may not be perfectly in tune) and sound wonderful even if the whole orchestra is now a bit off from the objective standard. This is why the second Dimash sample still sounds good.
Holy cow.Im realizing more and more how important it is this is brought to light and people understand the differences.I agree its frustration and kinda ridiculous really.
Fil, I don't tune in, automatically (you know, auto-tune), to your posts, since I'm not a musician, though I am filled with respect at your deeply knowledgeable and intelligent commentaries, as well as the way you make it really relatable for all of us. Thank you, from Indiana, USA!
Thank you for such a thorough explanation! Just wanted to mention that the first recording of Dimash that you used was the one from when he had a sore throat and couldn't perform, but he didn't want to upset his fans who came to the event, so he sang a cappella a piece of the song.
Thanks I'm aware of the circumstances making singing while unwell even more impressive!
Thank you for such a great analysis and explanation. I find myself wondering if singers ever train while watching their waveforms on a graph in order to become more accurate.
He sang SOS at a wedding, it sounded just as good with low quality amplifier. No way was that Auto tuned.
Go back and listen to what Fil said.The auto tune is used by the studio after the singer leaves
Yes this isn't a live vocal, it's the SOS recording ☺
@@wingsofpegasus check his other SOS's renditions at Paris Unesco 2017, Spirit Steppe and Digital Show 2021 and let's see whether it was live or not? Pay attention in the high notes :) the pitch was still perfect with his raw voice, jezzz :) and i just realize how dumb you are for saying that performance was recording lol (at the wedding or event) everybody knows it was obviously 1000% live
So the guy recording him on him phone, singing live at a wedding, used auto tune?
@@nickkazich1904 He could be using live autotune. It does it instantly whilst they are singing. It's a tiny box connected to the microphone. The guy recording on his phone is only recording what's coming out of the speakers (after it would be autotuned). Not saying this is autotuned, just saying it's a possibility.
All I can think about is when I was on a praise team that sang acapella the leader using a pitch pipe to get us started on the right note. It's interesting to know that no one can always hit the note all the time. Our ear hears the note and compensates. Our minds are geared towards patterns. This is how we make sense of things. I'm giving you a science lesson 😊
The natural voice is where all the personality is. How can you take that away. Also you are right. Kids who don't know about Auto Tune will have no idea that the human voice is not capable of perfect pitch. They won't understand why they can't accomplish hitting the note perfectly all the time.
Thanks for another stellar video. You have such a kind and humble nature about you.
As someone who came of age during the late 60s-early 70s, and who is mainly a classical listener but still enjoys the rock of that era and the blues revival (and hates disco), I found this video fascinating and most informative. I'd heard the terms "auto-tune" and "pitch-correction" but didn't really understand them. Thanks for the demo and very clear explanations. I've been sampling your videos for a while, but you got my subscription with this one!
Thanks!
I love how you can explain the differences in these terms and still make it enjoyable to learn. Thanks.
Dimash can sing live and a really great singer, auto tune or not, doesn't matter for me., is his team choice, Great singer can be auto tune, but bad singer do need auto tune, and they can not sing live, may by one song or two, good one may be can sing 90 min. concert, but Dimash can sing 3 hours live concert without problem, nobody is perfect, but Dimash is my favorite singer at this not perfect world time right now.
Just wanted to make a point. If you are a bad singer. Not even auto tune will make you sound good. You have to be at least a good singer for people to take notice that you can really sing. Sure auto tune can make even a very very young kid sound like his/she is on pitch, but they still don't sound like someone you'll want to listen to. The whole point of this video is to let people know that auto tune is used on most everyone at times. I was introduced to an engineer who showed me exactly how to know if someone is auto tuned or not using a graph like the one shown hear. I learned though, that if an engineer in post editing knows what he's doing not even the best ears can tell a great singer is being pitch corrected unless they can see the graph.
Sums it up nicely. Good singers can have small corrections done. Bad singers NEED corrections
Димаш доносит песню до сердце 💖
Great, insightful and beautifully balanced analysis. Straight after this I got a pop up add for an auto-tune plug in!
OK,OK, But there is more to performances than just singing. I know that sounds strange, but it's true. People watch and LOVE Dimash for the whole package. Number 1 is that he is such a phenom singer with his RANGE. Second, he sings with such EMOTION more than anyone else and third he is one of the NICEST, KINDEST person you will ever meet. AGAIN, IT"S THE WHOLE PACKAGE on why he is loved so much.
What I took from this video was that there's nothing wrong with Dimash's voice, and that if anything it should be left alone and not 'corrected'.
Thanks, I'm a Dimash fan and I think that it was very interesting. It's sad that nowadays autotune is becoming a reflex and automatically applied even when it's not needed at all ! Dimash really doesn't need it. He is naturally great and all the fancams of him singing backstage or at airports to his fans are proves of his talent.
Thank you Fil, for analyzing these two excellent singers, who obviously both do not need autotune!!
I always thought there was a difference between perfect pitch (ear) and pitch perfect (voice). The first is the ability to identify the note without comparison with other notes (and being a crappy singer at the same time😇), the second to being able to duplicate a note to almost perfection..
Somewhere in the comments there is a request for you to check Ave Maria by Dimash. I am also quite interested. Have a great day!
When it comes to Dimash, i personally dont care if its autotune or not. So far, he is the one and only singer that sing to my soul, i feel peace and calmness whenever i listen to him and that matter most to me and nothing else
I'm totally with you, Adeline. I don't care, either. It's the final product in which I am interested and if autotune is sometimes being used to make that final product more spectacular than it would otherwise be, I'm all for it!
Personally I don't know why people like this TH-camr get such a kick out of knocking Dimash and trying to make him look bad. We all know that he was born with perfect pitch and any number of studio engineers and vocal coaches have stated that he doesn't use autotune. One clickbait video is not going to change our opinion of him.
@@debbiemorgan859
It is clearly autotuned in this performance. The whole performance is 'produced'. Backing tracks, and tons of reverb and echo at the very least.
No one is knocking Dimash, who is obviously one of the best ever.
Debbie Morgan Good for you stating how you honestly feel. I’m with you all the way! That’s exactly what this all about, to make Dimash look bad. Well, it certainly did not change my mind about Dimash or his vocal abilities either. He’s still my number one despite all attempts to discredit him.
@@Igbon5 reverb and backing tracks are very different to auto tune, there are a number of songs where Dimash clearly sings his own backing vocals like Screaming, he can hardly reproduce that in a live performance without a backing track.
This channel popped up in my feed, I started watching & now... well I am absolutely loving it. Such a fascinating subject obviously I have never considered what goes into the voice, sounds, performance etc. You put it across so well & are so enthusiastic (especially the one on Queen) that I am now listening to music so differently. Thank you & I look forward to many more 🎶
Thanks!
Thank you, Fil. Someone has to hold the line. After all, what's wrong with the truth/reality? In my fine art classes every teacher took the time to point out there are always imperfections in every type of art. And that's what makes it art. Otherwise a machine can just mass produce it.
My first "test" is to listen with an ear towards if things sound too good. Auto tune/no auto tune plus if the vocals are being helped by a backing track. I also use the "look for mistakes" technique to try and determine if the performance is live. I don't mind voice modifications (Peter Frampton's use of a talk box) if it is clear that the modification is also part of the show. Thanks Fil.
Dan R....You mentioned "voice modifications". Putting reverb to a voice is another 'mod' that also really enhances ( whether for good or bad can be debated forever) the natural voice. I think it is real interesting to hear a singer that one is familiar with and hear their natural voice and then hear their voice with reverb added, or hear that singer sing acapella. I love acapella singing; the human voice is an amazing instrument, but I like singers in a band too, and as we just heard a little bit of with Pavarotti, I love Opera. Yea, there is Opera that I do not particularly care for; we all have our own likes & dislikes.
Breeders.....Cannonball
@@piplee1439 what about it?
@@guslulou8428 she used some type of guitar effect on her vocals.
Great tune.....
Listening to Pavarotti, we can hear how his mind 'finds' each note through near-instantaneous sampling the starting edge and very quickly bending it, to where it sounds 'perfect'. There's always a natural fractional time-delay as the mind 'autotunes' the emerging note via the ear-mind-vocalchord feedback loop. Computer autotune in post production allows this delay to be eliminated along with forcing that the note promptly lands perfectly. Autotune filters out the artist's subtle natural vocal pitch characteristics.
That is interesting and true.I am a huge Dimash fan but I did not like that version of SOS and now I know why.
dude its not complicated...the man was singing for 50 years..i think he can find a note...
Dimash once jokingly told his fans that he is so handsome because he has a stage make-up on him 🤭. But we know about its natural beauty. This is the beauty of an imperfect person (the ideal, as you know, is unattainable). Autotune is like a make-up in music. It can make a freak pleasant. And it can also polish a little, bring to perfection what is beautiful without a make-up. Thanks for the great analysis! I liked it. It's just that Dimash, before going out into the Light (like all civilized people) preeners a little in front of the mirror 😉
I'm late to this video but I am so glad you walked through the explanation as to why this matters (one of many reasons). I'd seen a comment on another vid to the effect of, "What difference does it make...can't we just enjoy what we hear?" Fair enough if you're someone who only listens. Not fair if you're someone who aspires to be a vocalist. As you said, the technology sets the bar impossibly high and it's sad to think that a would-be singer might be discouraged or even give up because they are trying to achieve something that can't be achieved naturally.