Gameplay wise its probably doable, but I'm just imagining a SEAL team in thier Ribby watching an Arleigh Burke jauntily sailing away after rolling up to Murmansk flinging Tomahawks and Standards every which way and blowing up all the coastal defenses to hell on clandestine insertion mission.
Just a heads up for playing this campaign with the Burke 1. When fighting subs, enter combat a slow speed, go active and deploy towed array and listen for torpedo launches, the subs in the game always shoot for your calculated moving position, return fire on the subs with two VLS torpedos and retract your towed array, and run like hell 180 degrees in the other direction, you will lose contact with the enemy subs but they will more then likely get sunk but ur torps and what not and it shouldn’t be an issue. 2. Soviet ships with CWIS will swat any missile you have out of the sky, so be careful, and time your missile launches in 5 second intervals and they will break through any chaff that ships deploy. Best of luck
I served on an FF and the Saratoga back in the late 80's and 90's ... and my Dad was a career attack sub sailor. He always told me that the only chance surface ships had against subs was in games and simulations.
This mod and it's surface warfare component REALLY gets me excited for "Sea Power: Naval Combat in the Missile Age", which I believe will likely be what this mod wants to be when it grows up, just a much more in depth simulation of (somewhat, looks to be 1960 to 1989 type scenarios) modern surface warfare. Can't wait for that game to come out. MicroProse really seems to be committed to maintaining their old ethos, and you love to see it. I hope you pick it up when it comes out, same with "Task Force: Admiral", which looks to be a more in depth version of "War on the Sea".
Oh what? Hadn’t heard of this game until I read your comment. “One of the developers was also the former head developer of the Killerfish Games game Cold Waters in 2017.”
I just wish it didn't stop at colde war and went all the way to present day. I also wish other navys would be represented for once other then U.S or Russia. Navys like China who is larger and more powerful then the Russians. Or the underrated JMSDF Ofc other nations too like British, Italian, Germany and France. That would be my dream modern missile ship game.
Man, the flooding on those subs would be terrifying. Love the surface videos especially the surface fights. Something about hearing CIWS and alert klaxons gets the blood going.
Just one Mk-46 hit to a submarine engine room would result in massive flooding and stop all propulsion. Any reserve buoyancy would be eliminated and blowing the emergency tanks would not save the crew. This was very enjoyable to watch. ASROC seems like an great weapon.
The game doesn't do a great job at reflecting just how serious a single hit can be; it seems to just to go more down the middle of what damage it could do. Granted not EVERY hit would be a perfect hit that actually ruptures the hull; some should be critical hits and other should be a bit too far when they detonate and cause internal flooding (ruptured pipes), equipment damage, and crew injuries/worse.
With the direction DOT has taken it makes me really excited for Sea Power. I can't wait for more surface and air units. I hope they have a SCS campaign as well as a cold war one.
This is amazing! I was stationed on the USS Curtius Wilbur DDG-54 and to actually play my old ship in this game... blows my mind. My job was using ESM and chaff (anti-ship missile defense).
Very much like what playing Sea Power will be, pretty sure that game will have a scenario editor so you can definitely do similar things like this, will be a lot of fun.
As a former Operations Specialist and Anti-Submarine Air Controller, ASW was always my favorite evolution in CIC. Glad to see the advancement in sims that have been coming out.
Agree, there are very few games with surface ships besides World of Warships, I only know Enigma Rising Tide and Destroyer: Uboat Hunter that will be released at the end of the month
I'd love to see 2 aegis cruisers and 1 Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frgate get transported back in time during a 20 ship German Submarine wolf pack attack on allied shipping.
love cold waters.. would love to try the surface ship stuff but I like point and click mods.. I remember trying to get dayz mod to work back in the day before dayz commander launcher.. nightmare stuff
These vids r awesome. Can you do a surface action with an Arleigh Burke Destroyer against a Russian surface ship like a Kirov, Udaloy or a Sovremenny class?
@@navalenthusiast809 no, I don’t know any mods. I just watch the videos. I’ve actually never have played this game before. Lol. I really think the videos are pretty awesome and enjoy the different scenarios. I actually but 3D printed miniatures of modern day warships and aircraft and have created a “sequel” to the original axis and Allies miniatures game and just simply call it axis and Allies modern navy miniatures
@@Wolfpack345 Thank you! I was undecided between Dotmod and Epic Mod but based on your feedback Im going to install Dotmod. Hopefully there will be more videos like this one. Liked a lot.
Are there any submarine/naval games set in the Mediterranean during WW2? I know it's not the most popular theatre of the war, but there was a very significant naval campaign that was fundamental to the survival of the British Empire.
Pretty brave to be in an ASW environment without your NIXIE deployed. This is a lot more fun than actually tracking submarines in the SCS, which i have done on more than one occasion.
You need to sell a T-shirt with an image of a submerged sub with your logo on the sail and surrounded by 3 or 4 converging enemy fish. Put "I am not a fan of that" in a cool font beneath the image. I want the first one and would gladly pay you for it.
11:54 in case if you're wondering, Wolfpack... Me and a friend of mine made that 5'inch gun sound... So as the SH-60 Rotor sounds which made by me. I'm a mod contributor to DotMod, doing the least as possible to help out. Thanks for trying out the AB DDG Flight-IIA. -Cmdr_SCF01 (DotMod Mod Contributor)
I served on USS Arkansas (CGN-41) -- that 5" gun sound is damn good! If you added the "tink-tink-a-tink" sound of the ejected brass cartridge hitting the deck (even though it's not animated) it would REALLY take me back!
If you ever want a sound of a sonarman screaming at the TAO to increase speed because the towed array is dragging on the bottom, I'm your guy. I have some other experience, such as saying "don't back up, we're streaming NIXIE/TACTAS" or, "Loss of SQR-19 data, I told you not to go over 25 knots" I'm your guy. I can also get you a more realistic winch sound.
USS Roosevelt performed every bit as beautifully as the ship in the "Zipang" anime (JDS Mirai). Maybe it's not the generational tech gap... maybe DDGs with Aegis and a bunch of VLS cells are just that good. 😜
Wolfpack, you have 2 Seahawks, try to utilize them first before firing your ASROCs since they are more limited. You should only really need to fire ASROCs when you can't get your Seahawks over the target quick enough, or you need to force a sub to cut a wire. Otherwise, you could slow to 5kts, go silent, listen, and wait for a solution all the while moving your Seahawks toward your targets.
That never works for me tbh. After a couple of minutes the subs always fire, especially when the helicopters are nearing their position. The rocket launched torpedoes are great to make them cut their wires and get the subs noisy so you have a good solution for the choppers to drop torpedoes.
@@Partyaap050 I am a DotMod Dev FYI, we are not talking about them getting shot down with SAMs, I said they cannot hear helicopters, nor do they know when they are close. The ai SAM is different ai subset.
Also, if you are finding they are engaging you very early in a mission, you can adjust your starting distance to a hostile contact in the menu settings thus increasing your stand-off.
Excellent video - I listened to the 1994 tape of the first Han contact long ago and spoke with the first crews who tracked her. A question - why are you not having your Seahawk drop SEVERAL sonobouys on a contact: to improve your tracking? I will have to search for this game - it is certainly MUCH quicker paced than the endless hours of ASW I did in the 80s and 90s .
Good evening. I hope you are doing well. The SQR-19 array at least on my dotmod version which is the most current. Ten knots is the limitation on the cable. How do You go faster without damaging the cable? Once that goes red you can't repair at sea. Thank you.
Attempted a Soviet Surface campaign before and it was quite a lot of fun, though utterly impossible without a decent ship unfortunately! Would be quite fun to see you try hunt some subs with a small ship like the little Anti-Sub Patrol vessel the Soviets have.
I want to use the "Dot Mod," but I don't know how to get it to my Cold Waters game program... I'm pretty computer 'stupid.' I've tried to understand the directions from the places you get Dot Mod, but... Duuuuuuh!
Very enjoyable gaming. I'll only watch now when the protagonist you play isn't the evil country or its predecessor. They should self-destruct sooner than later.
Hey Wolf, I was wondering how you do waypoints on your map (the one you did to mark the launch postion of enemy torpedo), then also if there is any other mods you recommend besideds DotMod. Thanks!
Space, point at where you want the torp to go on the map, then right click. If the torp has a wire, you can change the waypoint position by clicking on it if it hasn't gone active yet. Once the torp is active and is still connected to the wire, you can control it.
@@fandolo8678 Oh, you mean the ship heading? Well, as far as i have seen, stacking waypoints is impossible. Unless I was just being stupid and never bothered to try and find a way. Incidentally, the button for it is H by default, or you can click on the appropriate button on the hud.
I really love these videos they're amazing, but I am curious are you going to be doing any more war on the sea campaigns? It's been a while and those were a lot of fun.
IIRC the PLAN is pretty inept as a fighting force, submarines included; I guess the PLAN didn't want to risk Type 052 destroyers or Type 055 cruisers in this scenario...
Seeing a Surface Ship or a Boomer campaign would be extremely nice to see as honestly no one covers them
I may do some boomer stuff. The issue is IMO the campaigns would not play too well in a surface ship or SSBN.
Gameplay wise its probably doable, but I'm just imagining a SEAL team in thier Ribby watching an Arleigh Burke jauntily sailing away after rolling up to Murmansk flinging Tomahawks and Standards every which way and blowing up all the coastal defenses to hell on clandestine insertion mission.
Why would a boomer have a campaign? All they do is patrol, wait, return to base, and then repeat.
Boomer? What is it?
@@frankmg4250 Boomer is slang for a ballistic missile submarine/SSBN.
Just a heads up for playing this campaign with the Burke
1. When fighting subs, enter combat a slow speed, go active and deploy towed array and listen for torpedo launches, the subs in the game always shoot for your calculated moving position, return fire on the subs with two VLS torpedos and retract your towed array, and run like hell 180 degrees in the other direction, you will lose contact with the enemy subs but they will more then likely get sunk but ur torps and what not and it shouldn’t be an issue.
2. Soviet ships with CWIS will swat any missile you have out of the sky, so be careful, and time your missile launches in 5 second intervals and they will break through any chaff that ships deploy.
Best of luck
Wolfpack: “let’s flood the area with Asroc” launches a total of 6 Asroc
Me: ripple launch 5 Asrocs at each target
Maxim no. 37. There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'reload.'
I think the JMSDF Kongo and Atagos carry 8-16 ASROCs each.
@@_R-R Well, it's a game so you can carry more at the expense of SAM
@@odjflone8330
Good point. 8-16 standard. ASW mission? Yes.
@@_R-R I usually load between 20-25 ASROC on my ship
I'm loving these Cold Water DOT mod video's.
Glad you like them!
Same buddy! We need more Russian sub campaigns. Maybe something unique like the mike class.
I served on an FF and the Saratoga back in the late 80's and 90's ... and my Dad was a career attack sub sailor. He always told me that the only chance surface ships had against subs was in games and simulations.
Well, thata why you have towed array sonar, and 2 la subs patrolling.
I kinda doubt that. If surface ships didn't have decent chances against subs, navies wouldn't bother with anti-sub weapons for ships.
This is a very non-biased source to take that infor from
That’s 100% not accurate
Depends on how many ships you are willing to loose in the process...
This mod and it's surface warfare component REALLY gets me excited for "Sea Power: Naval Combat in the Missile Age", which I believe will likely be what this mod wants to be when it grows up, just a much more in depth simulation of (somewhat, looks to be 1960 to 1989 type scenarios) modern surface warfare. Can't wait for that game to come out. MicroProse really seems to be committed to maintaining their old ethos, and you love to see it. I hope you pick it up when it comes out, same with "Task Force: Admiral", which looks to be a more in depth version of "War on the Sea".
Yeah, glad that Microprose is back in the game. And their upcoming portfolio looks incredible.
Oh what? Hadn’t heard of this game until I read your comment.
“One of the developers was also the former head developer of the Killerfish Games game Cold Waters in 2017.”
I just wish it didn't stop at colde war and went all the way to present day. I also wish other navys would be represented for once other then U.S or Russia. Navys like China who is larger and more powerful then the Russians. Or the underrated JMSDF Ofc other nations too like British, Italian, Germany and France. That would be my dream modern missile ship game.
@@fireraid2336 Other countries besides the US and USSR will be present, so far we've also seen Iranian, Egyptian, East German, and Israeli forces
Man, the flooding on those subs would be terrifying. Love the surface videos especially the surface fights. Something about hearing CIWS and alert klaxons gets the blood going.
Just one Mk-46 hit to a submarine engine room would result in massive flooding and stop all propulsion. Any reserve buoyancy would be eliminated and blowing the emergency tanks would not save the crew. This was very enjoyable to watch. ASROC seems like an great weapon.
Back in the Cold War, some ASROCs were armed with nuclear depth charges, to make sure ballistic missile subs were taken out before they could launch.
The game doesn't do a great job at reflecting just how serious a single hit can be; it seems to just to go more down the middle of what damage it could do. Granted not EVERY hit would be a perfect hit that actually ruptures the hull; some should be critical hits and other should be a bit too far when they detonate and cause internal flooding (ruptured pipes), equipment damage, and crew injuries/worse.
With the direction DOT has taken it makes me really excited for Sea Power. I can't wait for more surface and air units. I hope they have a SCS campaign as well as a cold war one.
he finally brought out the arlegh burke
I was a sonar tech for 20 years and this is only the 2nd time I've seen somebody launch an ASROC almost on top of a helicopter.
YIKES! That must be quite the story haha
As a fellow Sonarman, what do you think a mk 48 torpedo would do to a sub?
Slightly more damage than just a hole in its side I would think.
@@00kt86 it would be pretty devastating.
@@00kt86a mk48 would obliterate a sub. A mk 46 would make a hole.
This is amazing! I was stationed on the USS Curtius Wilbur DDG-54 and to actually play my old ship in this game... blows my mind. My job was using ESM and chaff (anti-ship missile defense).
U can see it's one of the latest Bruke class destroyers because it has a helicopter hanger. The earlier sisters didn't have helicopter hangers
DDG 80 is the first flight IIA
They did a great job with this mod. Really cool to see from the surface ship perspective.
This channel is always so good. Just all kinds of fun historical games with some storytelling to add to the mood. Love it!
Very much like what playing Sea Power will be, pretty sure that game will have a scenario editor so you can definitely do similar things like this, will be a lot of fun.
As a former Operations Specialist and Anti-Submarine Air Controller, ASW was always my favorite evolution in CIC. Glad to see the advancement in sims that have been coming out.
Want to chat with likeminded viewers? Join the Discord! discord.gg/RHtdFVZ7
It's so neat to see a ship still in service.
So many torpedoes launched. A small country's navy command would cry watching that.
I love the surface combat videos.
Same
Happy to hear it!
Agree, there are very few games with surface ships besides World of Warships, I only know Enigma Rising Tide and Destroyer: Uboat Hunter that will be released at the end of the month
Really love these modern day Cold Water DOT mod videos, these are awesome.
The things theyre doing with this game is making it something ive always wanted!
"look at that. That IS just awesome." lol love how charmed you are by this game :)
Buena patrulla, un gran desempeño en la caza de esos tres submarinos... ENHORABUNA !
I'd love to see 2 aegis cruisers and 1 Oliver Hazard Perry Class Frgate get transported back in time during a 20 ship German Submarine wolf pack attack on allied shipping.
You only need one OHP for that job
@@oscarwang9381 I served on board the USS Philippines Sea CG 58 1990-1992
Love this surface warship gameplay!
Love the real sonar sounds not the standard movie pings.
Oddly enough, currently serving on the Roosevelt
Oh a new series? Kinda excited.
Arleig Burke is a good DD.
Bro i love the arleigh burke, it is my favorite ship!
It is a fantastic ship for sure
"What does ASROC stand for?" "Its not an acronym. Its a description"
love cold waters.. would love to try the surface ship stuff but I like point and click mods.. I remember trying to get dayz mod to work back in the day before dayz commander launcher.. nightmare stuff
These vids r awesome. Can you do a surface action with an Arleigh Burke Destroyer against a Russian surface ship like a Kirov, Udaloy or a Sovremenny class?
Do you know a mod that allows to play with these russian surface ships? either single missions or campaigns
@@navalenthusiast809 no, I don’t know any mods. I just watch the videos. I’ve actually never have played this game before. Lol. I really think the videos are pretty awesome and enjoy the different scenarios. I actually but 3D printed miniatures of modern day warships and aircraft and have created a “sequel” to the original axis and Allies miniatures game and just simply call it axis and Allies modern navy miniatures
Yeah I can definitely do that! Also this mod does allow you to play with Russian surface ships. I have some videos on the channel of it.
@@Wolfpack345 can’t wait to see them! I love this modern warfare on the high seas. A big difference from WWII navy battles.
@@Wolfpack345 Thank you! I was undecided between Dotmod and Epic Mod but based on your feedback Im going to install Dotmod. Hopefully there will be more videos like this one. Liked a lot.
Great change of perspective, and it sounds like you are going to do more surface ships. I am a fan of that. Also, enjoying the Il2 careers.
Are there any submarine/naval games set in the Mediterranean during WW2? I know it's not the most popular theatre of the war, but there was a very significant naval campaign that was fundamental to the survival of the British Empire.
You can operate out of the med in SH3. It will be my next series
Uboat you can also be in the med
@@Wolfpack345 Spoilers
Pretty brave to be in an ASW environment without your NIXIE deployed. This is a lot more fun than actually tracking submarines in the SCS, which i have done on more than one occasion.
Lost both my Seahawks on my Fig7 long hull, when two of the enemy subs emergency blow and launched manpads at them. Sad
Same thing happened to me while playing spruance class destroyer
simply outstanding
You need to sell a T-shirt with an image of a submerged sub with your logo on the sail and surrounded by 3 or 4 converging enemy fish. Put "I am not a fan of that" in a cool font beneath the image. I want the first one and would gladly pay you for it.
I'm a fan of this Tshirt idea!
No MAD gear aboard the helo? Would have helped you get a more solid position if it could use its dipping sonar.
What's hilarious is what the TH-cam CC prints on the screen for ASROC ,🤣
11:54 in case if you're wondering, Wolfpack...
Me and a friend of mine made that 5'inch gun sound...
So as the SH-60 Rotor sounds which made by me.
I'm a mod contributor to DotMod, doing the least as possible to help out. Thanks for trying out the AB DDG Flight-IIA.
-Cmdr_SCF01 (DotMod Mod Contributor)
I served on USS Arkansas (CGN-41) -- that 5" gun sound is damn good! If you added the "tink-tink-a-tink" sound of the ejected brass cartridge hitting the deck (even though it's not animated) it would REALLY take me back!
If you ever want a sound of a sonarman screaming at the TAO to increase speed because the towed array is dragging on the bottom, I'm your guy. I have some other experience, such as saying "don't back up, we're streaming NIXIE/TACTAS" or, "Loss of SQR-19 data, I told you not to go over 25 knots" I'm your guy.
I can also get you a more realistic winch sound.
-1,000,000 social credit score for Walfpack345
USS Roosevelt performed every bit as beautifully as the ship in the "Zipang" anime (JDS Mirai). Maybe it's not the generational tech gap... maybe DDGs with Aegis and a bunch of VLS cells are just that good. 😜
Wolfpack, you have 2 Seahawks, try to utilize them first before firing your ASROCs since they are more limited. You should only really need to fire ASROCs when you can't get your Seahawks over the target quick enough, or you need to force a sub to cut a wire. Otherwise, you could slow to 5kts, go silent, listen, and wait for a solution all the while moving your Seahawks toward your targets.
That never works for me tbh. After a couple of minutes the subs always fire, especially when the helicopters are nearing their position. The rocket launched torpedoes are great to make them cut their wires and get the subs noisy so you have a good solution for the choppers to drop torpedoes.
@@Partyaap050 Are you going active sonar? The AI can't hear your helicopters.
@@kevinddsstt1585 I don't go active sonar. The AI is aware of helicopters, they can even shoot them down
@@Partyaap050 I am a DotMod Dev FYI, we are not talking about them getting shot down with SAMs, I said they cannot hear helicopters, nor do they know when they are close. The ai SAM is different ai subset.
Also, if you are finding they are engaging you very early in a mission, you can adjust your starting distance to a hostile contact in the menu settings thus increasing your stand-off.
love Cold Waters series
I will never get tired of "Ass rock"
Don't forget that the Burke has two choppers
Excellent video - I listened to the 1994 tape of the first Han contact long ago and spoke with the first crews who tracked her.
A question - why are you not having your Seahawk drop SEVERAL sonobouys on a contact: to improve your tracking? I will have to search for this game - it is certainly MUCH quicker paced than the endless hours of ASW I did in the 80s and 90s .
The mod doesn't support players dropping sonobuoys from the helis yet :(
No sonobuoys and listening devices for helicopters yet unfortunately.
South China Sea is my favorite in cold waters. I cant even count the number of times I crashed into the seabed at flank speed.
Wolfpack! I would love to see your attempt to do a South China Sea campaign on this using the best BRITISH sub you can get your hands on!
Nice editing!
Good evening. I hope you are doing well. The SQR-19 array at least on my dotmod version which is the most current. Ten knots is the limitation on the cable. How do You go faster without damaging the cable? Once that goes red you can't repair at sea. Thank you.
would like to see some WWII actions.....love those big cannons lol
I like all the new surface ship content bro hope you will upload another content like this again!
The Roosevelt was my last ship, 2015-2020.
There are 3 PLAN submarines but why they only fired few torpedoes against a destroyer?
Well played!
Attempted a Soviet Surface campaign before and it was quite a lot of fun, though utterly impossible without a decent ship unfortunately!
Would be quite fun to see you try hunt some subs with a small ship like the little Anti-Sub Patrol vessel the Soviets have.
I'd love to see UBOAT gameplay again. Maybe a short campaign.
I am really waiting for the new patch
I wonder if this simulation ever utilizes your aft vertical launch array?
I want to use the "Dot Mod," but I don't know how to get it to my Cold Waters game program...
I'm pretty computer 'stupid.'
I've tried to understand the directions from the places you get Dot Mod, but... Duuuuuuh!
keep up the good work
I would like to see a video of a Tico cruiser trying to protect its carrier battle group against a Russian bomber attack.
A British sub campaign would be interesting to see
i never knew that torpedoes could be launched from VLS
Do you have a sound pack? My helicopters and the voice calling out what the helicopter is doing sound different
This'll be good. ASW in the South China Sea? Really shallow spot. Easy to pin the enemy between the floor and a hot, hot, hot torpedo.
Submarine is always at a disadvantage, even in modern times.
Would love to see ya make more open water battles
Great video 👋👋👋
Would love a South China Sea campaign
The nixie is a handy tool!
It really is!
Any chance to see ASW in command modern operations?
How do you do the opening credit? Its very cool.
How about a torpedo boat squadron attacking ships
nice video. i need to get better at this game.
Very nice video. Could you make an Silent Hunter 3 Soviet Campaign series, there is a mod to play soviet WW2 subs
Very enjoyable gaming. I'll only watch now when the protagonist you play isn't the evil country or its predecessor. They should self-destruct sooner than later.
I'd like to see more IL-2 tank crew please!
Love to see a revisit to Wolfpack game 😎 please!!!
Would be need to see an SCS campaign after the Soviet one.
How about trying a South China see Campaign?
Wait torpedoes can be missile launched all this time i was thinking of the same device that launched torpedoes in ww2
Hey Wolf, I was wondering how you do waypoints on your map (the one you did to mark the launch postion of enemy torpedo), then also if there is any other mods you recommend besideds DotMod. Thanks!
Space, point at where you want the torp to go on the map, then right click.
If the torp has a wire, you can change the waypoint position by clicking on it if it hasn't gone active yet.
Once the torp is active and is still connected to the wire, you can control it.
@@DZ-1987 Not what I meant, but thanks. I was talking about Shift+Left Mouse/Right Mouse button on the map.
@@fandolo8678 Oh, you mean the ship heading?
Well, as far as i have seen, stacking waypoints is impossible. Unless I was just being stupid and never bothered to try and find a way.
Incidentally, the button for it is H by default, or you can click on the appropriate button on the hud.
Liking it a lot asw always good!
More Cold Waters surface ships videos and newly released IL2 Battle of Normandy campaigns please
More Cold Water please.
I want a Seawolf South China Sea campaign.
I really love these videos they're amazing, but I am curious are you going to be doing any more war on the sea campaigns? It's been a while and those were a lot of fun.
Hey mate, how did you get the IIA model? Which mod are you using?
Ur videos are amazing 😻
Glad you like them!
Three subs for uncle Sam !
wait a min is that song from dangerous waters?
Well done on the xia pronunciation
I'm glad it was actually correct 😅
What mods do you install on? Because I saw you released the helicopter
that helicopter is H-60R or B i cant tell the differents
how did you get the hud to look so clean, mine is taking up half the screen
IIRC the PLAN is pretty inept as a fighting force, submarines included; I guess the PLAN didn't want to risk Type 052 destroyers or Type 055 cruisers in this scenario...