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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 11 ก.ย. 2024
- Patrol versus Rune! Two very popular Enduro bikes. Rune uses a dual link suspension system, while Patrol uses a traditional Horst-link system. Does this make any difference? Check it out!
Simulation software:
www.bikechecker.com
Wonderful video, love that you included explanations on the terminology. Clears up some misconceptions I had. Thanks
Thanks for all the work! Keep am coming! (Waiting for Yeti, Canyon, Cube, Rose... you get the deal!)
Thank you dude! I've been happily waiting!!
Please do Banshee Legend vs. Specialized Demo, that'd be dope
Time to do one of these for the new V3 platform on the banshee Titan!
Its not the Titan, but I have done the analysis for Banshee Phantom V3 for Vital MTB test sessions (released early this week). Check their review :)
Thx, now I know how much rune depends on suspension setup and performance!
BansheeForLife!!!
Thanks dude! Now i know i am riding the correct bike :P
nice! Gotta do one for GT bikes and their suspension technology. You are awesome!
Cool Video Andre. Would you mind doing a comparison between Banshee Prime and Santa Cruz Hightower? I find these two bikes very close in their parameters and both have a form of virtual pivot suspension. I always wondered what the difference is in the math behind them. Cheers!
I have a yt capra and i ride kanrly trails and jumps and decent speed and i dont think ive ever actually felt it bottom out, it has im sure but it feels fantastic, coming from a hardtail i dont need something which has max traction and sensitivity in the rear, i just need something which takes the abuse.
Hey Andre. Annotation on Axle Path slide says that lower initial angles lead to better small bump sensitivity. I wonder if that's actually true? Rune has lower angle here (79°vs 83°), which means it must be more sensitive at low travels. At the same time afaik higher AS values are associated with lower small bump sensitivity, and in this test Rune has higher initial AS. Kind of doesn't stick together.
Hey. Slacker angles would absorb better the bumps since bump forces always have an angle (unless it's a drop to flat at very low speed). However, both Rune or Patrol, or almost all non-high-pivot bikes, have an almost vertical path. Either if it's 79 or 83 that's almost the same, and I would include it on the near-vertical cathegory. Only bikes with high-pivot (eg: Commencal DH V4 or Zerode DH) have a truly rearward axle path (near 60º). In those cases, the rear path has a similar angle to the front wheel (head angle), and the rear wheel absorbs / rolls-over the bumps better. Regarding the last point, higher anti-squats can affect small bump sensitiviy ONLY when you are pedaling and producing tension on the chain (this is only true on traditional bikes, on high-pivot bikes it's also not true since the anti-squat cames mostly from driving force / swingarm angle and not from chain pulling). Bye
Hi, love your videos :) thanks heaps for doing them!
I'm about to get a transition patrol carbon, I'm going to put a longer shock in it, instead of 63mm stroke it will have 69mm stroke. I'm planning to use offset bushings to keep the geo the same. My main concern is tire clearance during bottom out, but will find out :)
But my question is, what effect could this extra stroke have on suspension performance ? By my maths it should make the rear about 170 travel. Would the extra travel at the end be progressive? Maybe suit a coil better?
Thanks :)
Can I ask how much travel sag it will have if I put the sag at the shock travel as 35%? Transition recommends 35% sag at the shock travel. Do you think that recommendation has some benefits for the shock tune or any reason for this?
thank you.
Since Patrol is not very progressive, a 35% SAG on the shock corresponds to almost 36% on wheel. I don't think there is a strong reason, but a 35% SAG makes the suspension softer and smoother, which is good on rough terrain but it will be less efficient on pedaling and can suffer from harsh bottom-outs on bigger impacts. My advice is to adjust the SAG to your preference (within the 25-35% interval). Bye
thank you. have a good lunch
Andre grande trabalho! Muito obrigado por isto! Seria curioso os irmaos mais crescidos e sentinel com o titan !
Andre great job! Thank you so much for this! It would be curious their big brothers and sentinel with the titan!
Francisco C. Ola Francisco obrigado! A Sentinel já fiz a analise para o vitalmtb é público. A titan nao analisei mas analisei a Phantom V3 2020 também recentemente para o VitalMTB.
www.vitalmtb.com/product/guide/Bikes,3/Transition/Sentinel-X01-Complete,20420
@@andrextr muito obrigado André!
This is great, thanks! Now that bikes are coming out with 12 speed and pivot locations don't seem to have changed, what effect will a 10-50 tooth rear cassette with a 34 tooth front chain ring have on the anti-squat valves? I have a Patrol with a 10-50t cassette and am trying to decide on a front chain ring size
Hi. Just to be clear, the anti-squat is not a valve, it's the extension of the suspension caused by chain force (full info here: th-cam.com/video/D0bAVTiFyy4/w-d-xo.html ). Answering your question, usually anti-squat decrease with higher front chainring. The difference between 32 vs 34T can be around 5-10%. For the Patrol, you get around 95% AS for a 34-50T; 90% for 34-21T and 80% for 34-10T. So, overall it's OK. Bye
would you recommend a coil shock for the patrol 2016?
can you do specialized enduro vs yt capra?
+Jorge Rubio I will do for Enduro vs Reign probably on the next week. Then you just need to look for Capra video and compare by yourself :) But regarding progressivity, there is a huge difference between the two :)
What would a 30t instead of 32t result in antisquat on the patrol?
On most bikes it increases anti-squats by 5 to 10% on average.
@@andrextr wow such a quick answer. Thanks a lot! Have a good weekend!
Hi
How do you calculate the overall progressitivity oh these bikes? Can you explain that please?
See video: “How progressive is your mountain bike? (MTB suspension Ep.20)
@@andrextr ok thank you I will do that. Can you tell me the overall progressitivity of the new Banshee Rune V3?
On the Rune you can change the position's dropout. Is it affect the analysis?
+Sébastien Lefèvre It will just have a minimal effect on some parameters. Probably not even 5% on the values. So, we can basically ignore that. Bye
What do you think of a coil shock on the Patrol for semi-pro level Enduro racing
+Sean Haran Hi. As always coil shocks will offer best performance on downhills with better initial sensitivity, more mid stroke support and more spring consistency on longer runs (no heating on the spring). On the other hand a good air shock will offer an almost similar performance to coil and they are lighter and more tuneable (air pressure and final ramp-up adjustments with spacers). The Patrol 2016 and in particular the '17 linkage are moderately progressive so they can work well with both kind of shock. For 2018 transition has decreased significantly the progressivity of Patrol (against the tendency of the market), so an air shock with spacers might work better. Bye
andrextr thanks so much for the great reply! My home trails are big (300+ meter) descents and they are exceptionally rough and rocky so I will probably go with the coil!
darkside vs myst
GT Sanction VS Santacruz nomad or Specialized Enduro Expert pls
+Li Chence Spec. Enduro vs Reign coming next week. I will also try to do GT in the next days. Then you just compare the main conclusions with nomad video for yourself. :) Bye