Lloyd talking sense as usual and rightly pursuing Hutchy about how to tank without undoing player confidence and single minded dedication to win. Hutchys evasive answer in my opinion showed his true character and personality, willing to endorse a shifty and underhand course of action and not actually grasping the negative effect of his proposed course of action on the players involved.
Lloydy touched on something there.... As a Perth Wildcats supporter, I am disgusted to hear our owner (Hutchy) speak like that. We now know if we bottom out and turn into dust, we can point the finger at this clown and put the blame on him.
Hutchy has probably not seen Harley Reid kick a football, let alone the rest of the draft group. It's his kind of superficial analysis that makes the AFL media mostly unbearable. Thank goodness for Lloyd.
I'm a north supporter and this win meant something to me. Control your own fate and set standards that are more important than outside factors. Seeing Larkey fire up his team-mates was awesome. Also, people over emphasise the top pick vs pick 2 or pick 3.
Exactly bro, I remember in 2009 when Melbourne had the first 2 picks and got scully and trengove, meanwhile Richmond picked up dusty with pick 3. I know which player I would rather have lol
I don't follow North but them getting to see a well deserved win to finish their year is far more important than pick 2 instead of 1. Brilliant reward for Larkey too.
A couple weeks ago these guys were blasting West Coast for “tanking” and now they’re saying North should’ve. This show makes people dumber. You should always want to win.
This. And at the other end of the spectrum of Hawthorn's premiership players: Sam Mitchell was selected at 36, Breust at 47, Campbell Brown at 32, Paul Puopolo 66, Bateman 48, Shiels 34, Brad Hill 33, Will Langford 71, Duryea 69, Ben Stratton 46. The Hawks picked up Clinton Young, Robert Campbell, Michael Osborne, Brad Sewell, Matt Suckling and Stephen Gilham in the rookie draft, and Brent Guerra in the pre-season draft. It's not always the selection of high draft picks that contribute to premiership winning sides, but how well you build a list with lower picks.
Hawks fan my entire life, the turn started when alot of the young guys started following how hard Shane Crawford worked, that bled into Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis, Hodge, even the mid tier players took that grind to heart.
Jeez Craig showing what poor integrity he has, shocking that he’s condoning tanking. Lloyd’s dropping truth thankfully and he’s the only one on the panel with the credibility to know
Glad we got the win after 20 str8 losses, Larkey kicks 9 and finishes 3rd in the goal kicking. The win gave us North supporters something to celebrate in a bad year
If you walk into any afl club at any time regardless of their ladder position at the time, you will find highly motivated people with incredible self integrity. Coaches, players, fitness, medical, board members, you simply don’t get to those positions without high personal values and determination. At the most some young players may get drafted with minimal integrity but they are found out and delisted within 2 years. You can not ask even one person in any department to sacrifice their morals and integrity even once just to get a player to the club through the draft The knock on effects are just too great and ripple on for many years, potentially decades.
Caro's point about Hawthorn buidling a team around its number one pick - and that Hodge singlehandedly changed the culture - was ridiculous. It took almost a decade before Hodge became captain, in which time there were three captains before his tenure - all were key in driving fitness standards (Hodge admits he struggled with his weight early on and looked up to the likes of Crawford and Mitchell). In fact, Mitchell was drafted the same year as Hodge while Roughead, Franklin and Lewis were drafted three years later and - up until the 2008 Grand Final - Hodge was beset by critics who questioned his status as Number One Draft Pick over Chris Judd. And 2010 recruit Shaun Burgoyne's influence on games and willingenss to speak his mind cannot be understated. Hodge became a great leader, but it was a process that took many years. Caro is guilty of hindsight bias in thinking Hodge'a elavation to captain was a done deal.
You can tell Hutchy is only involved in sport for the money. He doesn't give a rat's rear-end about the passion and enjoyment of the players, coaches and spectators. For him it's all about lining his pockets...and if match-fixing will help him do that, then he's all for it!
Drafting is only ever a guess, and it's rarely spot on. Imagine: two players who are both tall, fast, athletic, excellent marks, can play forward, back or centre - sometimes even ruck, with great leadership, essentially the perfect footy players... Adam Goodes (picked 43), dual Brownlow-medallist. Matthew Pavlich (literally NOT picked in his first draft), more AA selections than anyone else.
Been saying this for a while, Lloyd is the best footy journalist/commentator/personality going around. Integrity in his comments, truly knows the game, no real ego in his delivery, level-headed.
Larkey finished 3rd Coleman, got an AA squad nod, and Hutchy says he should have been benched for a month? He is putrid (and probably enjoys the backlash)
@@imalwaysright hes always hated north (coming from a dees fan) for some reason. I remember him saying they'd failed badly when they made a prelim with a pretty average team like waite at FF.
Lloyd made Caro look stupid with her Luke Hodge angle lmao. If you look at the previous #1 picks, you will see how much impact (or not) they’re having at their clubs. Takes more than #1 pick to win a premiership, and #2, #3 and so on are just as good. The media hype up the #1 pick. Sheezel and Wardlaw weren’t #1.
@@ma3stro681 AA, likely Sydney 2023 B&F winner was #32!!?? I didn't know that. The game has so many legends and stars that were lowered ranked or even rookies.
Hutchys got no right to have that say given his only relation to the sporting world is through media not participation. Non-player journos need to be reminded that they should stick to breaking stories around player/coaching movements/injuries/headlines etc. and not player skill/stratagy/indepth analysis, leave that to the people who have actually been there and done that.
The reason the constant tanking debate is so toxic is that it's probably the most symptomatic of how flippant and changeable journalists are in their opinions, they are just looking for a headline. One week it's West Coast should be tanking, or they were accused of it, for not putting an extra player behind the ball, in a match they had no right winning, the next week it's the Eagles and North have made huge errors winning matches of football. Say what you want about Simpson and Clarkson but they are premiership players (Simpson) and coaches and have zero interest in losing football matches. All of the variables involved in supposed tanking are so up in the air. Simpson is fighting for his life as a coach, players are fighting for contracts and respect in the game. Caro's argument is ridiculous and very bare in context. Hawthorn built a premiership dynasty with one of the best coaches the games has seen and four top 10 picks in 20 years. Melbourne, Carlton, Richmond, Gold Coast and GWS have had more top 10 picks in the past two decades than Hawthorn will probably have this century. Earlier this year the media was criticizing Hawthorn for 'tanking' for making hard list changes, and all have been proven wholly wrong. I'm a Hawthorn fan and Clarko is right, yeah we got Hodge with our only ever #1 pick but we also picked up Roughead at #2, Croad and Ellis at #3, Franklin at #5, Lewis at #7, Rioli at #12, Crawford at #13 and Birchall at #14. No club would NOT have picked up Franklin at #1 in hindsight. At the end of the day the drive and mentality of players is the most important factor in winning premierships and there are a multitude of ways to pick up players capable of winning a premiership, through the draft, trade table and rookie and pre-season drafts. We picked up Sam Mitchell at 36, Breust at 47, Campbell Brown at 32, Paul Puopolo 66, Bateman 48, Shiels 34, Brad Hill 33, Will Langford 71, Duryea at 69, Ben Stratton 46. We picked up Clinton Young, Robert Campbell, Michael Osborne, Brad Sewell, Matt Suckling and Stephen Gilham in the rookie draft. We got Brent Guerra in the pre-season draft. All are premiership or multiple premiership players and most of them have played 200+ games. Of all the #1 picks in the drafts since 1981, only Drew Banfield, Des Headland, Hodge, and Tom Boyd have won premierships, two for other clubs than the ones they were originally selected by... that's more a curse than an advantage I'd say. For sure the number one pick gives you a good shot at it, but it's still very much an imperfect science. Even if the Eagles "tanked" and got the #1 pick, which they obviously did not, they would have a player on their hands who might have turned into a Jason Horne Francis situation in 12 months time, so they might well have split the pick with other clubs in any case... It's just a media narrative that's easy to push based on ignorance and a hunger for stories where there are none.
That's disgraceful from Hutchy. I don't support any of these teams, but surely these athletes always go out to do their best and let the chips fall where they may. If players like Buddy, Tom Hawkins or Charlie Dixon were asked by their coaches to tank for draft picks, I think I know what the answer would be.
For the life of me I don't know how hutchy gets a gig on TV. He knows nothing about how the game and a footy club actually work. He's as arrogant as they come yet he turns to mud when he's challenged. If the roos did lose on the weekend, he would have been arguing that they were tanking.
Did Caroline Wilson say something positive about North? Of course, Hutchison made a fool of himself again. Thank goodness Lloyd was there to make some sense. North didn't tank because it's not Carlton.
‘No one will remember that game one way or another , ever’ I’ve seen the highlights of the Melbourne tanking game with McMahon smoking one from 50 rolled out nearly every season .
Didn’t seem to work when Melbourne was reported to do something like that in the 2010’s. Got Watts, Scully and Trengrove but all never were developed properly plus the culture etc was poor until Roos came in. Same for the Philadelphia 76ers when they tanked big and besides Embid where are those player they got now and still haven’t won a championship as of now. Get the right people in to develop the talent, culture etc and look what happens regardless if the player is a no 1, no 7 pick etc
To further the basketball analogy (although played out) a majority of Miami’s finals run teams have been constructed of mostly late lottery - late first round and undrafted players, just because you get the first pick does not guarantee winning, and pick 2 is not a far drop from #1
Hutchy, Hutchy, Hutchy. I don't know how I could disagree with you any more... And then he tells Caro to stop yelling after she quite simply pointed out why he was wrong. Culture is far more important than one player in one draft and giving players a reason for optimism and giving them the emotional nourishment of winning is far more important than any one singular player. Not only that, but blatant tanking is also flat out illegal in the AFL, and that is a policy I think the NBA would do well to adopt. Just like winning is a habit, losing is also a habit, and it becomes to far engrained when it is encouraged. The players for North will now go into the offseason with a little bit of confidence that all the hard work they're putting in on the training track is working and it will deliver good results if they keep sticking to it. Also I reckon Lloyd could be right about West Coast going with Daniel Curtin meaning Harley Reid can go to North. Even if West Coast go with Reid, North will still get Daniel Curtin. Who knows, maybe Curtin ends up being better than Reid. All throughout the 2016 draft process, Hugh McCluggage was being touted as the Number 1 pick. Then, during the last few weeks, Andrew McGrath and Tim Taranto shot up the rankings and Hugh went 3rd. All three are incredibly good players, and you can argue about Hugh and Tim Taranto, but I'd have to say Andy McGrath is the third best out of those three despite going 1st overall. Point is, these things are never exact sciences and you can't bank your future on one pick in one draft, even if it is the first overall pick.
Hutchy seems to have conveniently forgotten that they had a number one pick two years ago and he's already gone. Can't keep talent if you don't have a winning culture. Can't build a winning culture if you don't win. Madness to suggest otherwise
North Melbourne should have at least a couple more wins under their belt, they could've beaten Sydney and Essendon bit due to the youth and lack of composure in those games they only got 3 wins. West Coast were always gonna finish bottom and had the number 1 pick so to say they should've tanked is a bad call. I do agree that if that's his opinion thats fine but you don't necessarily need to agree with it
I can't believe football has got to the point that if you don't throw a game to get the number 1 pick there is something wrong with you. 1 I'm pretty sure that is illegal and 2 they need to make it a ballot for the last 3 teams to try to stamp out this crap.
Whatsvthis obsession with Curtin the past couple of weeks??? He wasnt being talked about for top 5 not long ago. Its almost like theyre desperate to convince West Coast to take him and not Reid. Hahaha so see through these muppets.
The VIC media are desperate to avoid WCE getting the best player in the draft, so they’re openly pushing Curtin as this “homegrown talent” that WCE are crazy about. Eagles list boss Gavin Bell and recruiting manager Rohen O’Brien have both talked about and defended their interest in Harley Reid. There’s literally no noise from the West about Eagles looking to trade out of pick 1 to get Curtin.
I'm a Carlton supporter and all of our number 1 picks have been really good players. None of them have gotten the club anywhere near winning a flag. Weitering and Walsh might.... But that proves the point. The club finally has depth across the ground which is what you need. You need 10 very good players and a bunch of role players. Not just pick 1. Go through every draft and you could argue there's better players (multiple) than pick 1. Pick 1 is usually a good 250 game player, but not the guy that wins you the flag.
If you win a game, you have sabotaged your chance to get the #1 pick, but if you deliberately lose the same game, you are tanking.....no win situation here. Talk like this (Hutchy) gives more weight to the concept of a bottom end lottery system. Which is a concept that is mostly driven by media commentators' thoughts and expression (like this one) rather than from a playing football perspective. Would it have been a better situation for North to lose the game, yes more than likely, but they got Clarko for his ability to take teams to win games, not for his ability to tank games. Shocking take on this by Hutchy.
Why do these people talk about tanking as though it’s a viable option? No sport in the world allows teams to throw games. They might as well be discussing whether players should take steroids.
Was always going to be a lose-lose in the media's eyes for North. If they lost, the media would be carrying on about how they tanked and it's a stain on the league, and this is the result of them winning. Lloyd the only one talking any sense here
I could pick a star without the no 1 draft pick. If you think Harley Reid is the only talent in Oz then you are deluded. No offense to the young Harley
Luke Hodge went at pick one, Dusty Martin at pick two, plenty of other pick ones and twos have gone on to be completely mediocre... why are they arguing about whether pick one instead of pick two will completely change the landscape of an entire football club for the foreseeable future? I thought tanking was a bad thing but here you've got a bloke that said the roos should have actively tanked to get pick one instead of two? Get your hand off it.
The only way to stop teams from tanking is that the AFL need to stop rewarding poor performance. The wooden spoon should be NOTHING to be proud of, the team who finishes last does NOT deserve a prize. Teams should be embarrassed to finish last. As far as I'm concerned, the team that finishes on the bottom of the ladder should be penalised; that penalty should be that they miss out on the top 5 picks. Teams from 17th to 13th should each be given 1 of the first 5 draft picks randomly. This will give teams incentive to play to win games and avoid finishing on the bottom. Teams 12th and above are generally all vying for a spot in the top 8 to play finals. Teams that miss out on finals should all get higher picks than those who make the 8. This is merely just to balance out the comp. The bottom team will be forced to develop a "winning culture" and not rely on the No.1 draft pick
How can we actually have a segment discussing if the result of a game should have been manipulated by the coach, your happy to tell your team to lose a game, and deny your supporters a win, to earn a draft. Its blatant corruption. You play to win bottom line.
The AFL should stop rewarding teams for finishing last, then there won't be any reason to tank. Tanking is against the spirit of the game. People don't pay their hard-earned money to watch their team throw a game.
Good Lord sometimes the takes on this show make me cringe. Caro's take on Hodge wasn't great bc she left out all the other players they got around the same time. Hutchy, istg is just trying to be a contrarian with that tanking conversation thread. Not sure about Kane's Ben Mackay section, personally either I think would be good. Thank GOD for people like Lloydo, he's basically the only reason I watch this show. 100% agree, winning that game was more important than securing no.1 pick, hands down.
Tanking? Funny how this conversation comes up every year, yet if a team wants to rest players (like I believe Collingwood should have done weeks ago with 1st essentially confirmed) then it is somehow 'against the spirit of the game'. ???
No team in a professional competition will tank. It makes no sense... You cant tell your players hey don't go 100% today we need to lose. Thats where players will start dropping and leaving to other clubs. Notice how Kane was quiet that whole time? yeah cause he has accused Norf and West Coast AND THE HAWKS for tanking all year. i don't know how you people have jobs on this show you come up and spray the most bs comments ever. Lloydy the only one that knows what he is talking about.
Kane and Caro are absolute 🤡, a wins a win, the media in the AFL is so toxic these days, the tanking allegations are ridiculous that north and West Coast won a game late in the season
Just gonna say there is more chance Reid will be retained in WA then Curtin in Victoria, so if I was eagles I’d take Reid and grab Curtin in a couple years
Hutchy is purely a business man and this comment shows how out of touch with the common fan and even afl teams and cultures. But it also shows a flawed system when it can be that easily manipulated by people like hutchy.
Am i hearing you right,Hutchison?! You're saying you condone tanking?! I think you're being ridiculous again! It's as though you NEVER played football yourself. And Caro wasn't yelling!
Hutcjy last week "Eagles should have tanked" This week "Roos should have tanked" Just cause he peobably never won a game in his life and eats dohnuts for breakfast doesnt mean everyone else needs to try underhanded tactics to try get advantages. He is a bloody joke.
Lloyd's the only one who speaks common sense on this show
Caro’s Luke Hodge angle was stupid, but I’m glad she torched Hutchy
YEP!
What a slime Hutchinson is.
Exactly
100%
Lloyd talking sense as usual and rightly pursuing Hutchy about how to tank without undoing player confidence and single minded dedication to win. Hutchys evasive answer in my opinion showed his true character and personality, willing to endorse a shifty and underhand course of action and not actually grasping the negative effect of his proposed course of action on the players involved.
Superbly described
Shane on the league for having a system that rewards it.
The media's constant tanking question is a disgrace and a disservice to the game. Shame on you Hutchinson.
Lloydy touched on something there....
As a Perth Wildcats supporter, I am disgusted to hear our owner (Hutchy) speak like that.
We now know if we bottom out and turn into dust, we can point the finger at this clown and put the blame on him.
They don't have a nbl draft lol hahah
@@chrissanders3661that’s not the point, hutchies integrity is the point
Hutchy has probably not seen Harley Reid kick a football, let alone the rest of the draft group.
It's his kind of superficial analysis that makes the AFL media mostly unbearable.
Thank goodness for Lloyd.
I'm a north supporter and this win meant something to me. Control your own fate and set standards that are more important than outside factors. Seeing Larkey fire up his team-mates was awesome. Also, people over emphasise the top pick vs pick 2 or pick 3.
Exactly bro, I remember in 2009 when Melbourne had the first 2 picks and got scully and trengove, meanwhile Richmond picked up dusty with pick 3. I know which player I would rather have lol
North supporter here who agrees!
Carn NORF..! 👍🏻
I don't follow North but them getting to see a well deserved win to finish their year is far more important than pick 2 instead of 1. Brilliant reward for Larkey too.
meant a lot for all the players .. the coaching staff and the supporters
Hutchy literally advising cheating and subverting the result. what a great guy lol
A couple weeks ago these guys were blasting West Coast for “tanking” and now they’re saying North should’ve. This show makes people dumber. You should always want to win.
Caro also didn’t mention that Hawks got Jordan Lewis, Roughead and Buddy Franklin in 2004, a year that Brett Deledio was the number one pick
She loves missing out important info
and as @tb7667 pointed out in the comments, Chris Judd was #3 in the Hodge year
This. And at the other end of the spectrum of Hawthorn's premiership players: Sam Mitchell was selected at 36, Breust at 47, Campbell Brown at 32, Paul Puopolo 66, Bateman 48, Shiels 34, Brad Hill 33, Will Langford 71, Duryea 69, Ben Stratton 46. The Hawks picked up Clinton Young, Robert Campbell, Michael Osborne, Brad Sewell, Matt Suckling and Stephen Gilham in the rookie draft, and Brent Guerra in the pre-season draft. It's not always the selection of high draft picks that contribute to premiership winning sides, but how well you build a list with lower picks.
@@itsWAHOO2012That’s unfair. It’s that moron Hutch that was talking absolute rubbish. Shameful.
is Hutchy actually complaining that North wasn't tanking?.
He was leading the charge at accusing the Hawks of tanking.
What an absolute flog.
Probably had $$$ on them to win the spoon, that's why he's so upset
Flog of flogs. King of flogs. Integrity zero.
Well done North💪 proved their integrity
Hawks fan my entire life, the turn started when alot of the young guys started following how hard Shane Crawford worked, that bled into Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis, Hodge, even the mid tier players took that grind to heart.
Matthew Lloyd, take a bow! He’s the only one who speaks with any common sense, logic, and understanding of what the players on the field are about!
Jeez Craig showing what poor integrity he has, shocking that he’s condoning tanking. Lloyd’s dropping truth thankfully and he’s the only one on the panel with the credibility to know
Glad we got the win after 20 str8 losses, Larkey kicks 9 and finishes 3rd in the goal kicking. The win gave us North supporters something to celebrate in a bad year
Team deliberately tanks to secure draft picks
AFL investigates allegations of tanking and takes draft picks off club.
Good one Hutch
If you walk into any afl club at any time regardless of their ladder position at the time, you will find highly motivated people with incredible self integrity. Coaches, players, fitness, medical, board members, you simply don’t get to those positions without high personal values and determination.
At the most some young players may get drafted with minimal integrity but they are found out and delisted within 2 years.
You can not ask even one person in any department to sacrifice their morals and integrity even once just to get a player to the club through the draft
The knock on effects are just too great and ripple on for many years, potentially decades.
Caro's point about Hawthorn buidling a team around its number one pick - and that Hodge singlehandedly changed the culture - was ridiculous.
It took almost a decade before Hodge became captain, in which time there were three captains before his tenure - all were key in driving fitness standards (Hodge admits he struggled with his weight early on and looked up to the likes of Crawford and Mitchell).
In fact, Mitchell was drafted the same year as Hodge while Roughead, Franklin and Lewis were drafted three years later and - up until the 2008 Grand Final - Hodge was beset by critics who questioned his status as Number One Draft Pick over Chris Judd.
And 2010 recruit Shaun Burgoyne's influence on games and willingenss to speak his mind cannot be understated.
Hodge became a great leader, but it was a process that took many years.
Caro is guilty of hindsight bias in thinking Hodge'a elavation to captain was a done deal.
How can you blame Caro? Did you hear that idiot Hutch? This is what you got out of the video?
Hutchy is a stain on football and media.
Are you getting next month's Penthouse With Caro starkers Centre Spread
And the all you can eat buffet …
Update: Nick Larkey made the AA team
You can tell Hutchy is only involved in sport for the money. He doesn't give a rat's rear-end about the passion and enjoyment of the players, coaches and spectators. For him it's all about lining his pockets...and if match-fixing will help him do that, then he's all for it!
Drafting is only ever a guess, and it's rarely spot on. Imagine: two players who are both tall, fast, athletic, excellent marks, can play forward, back or centre - sometimes even ruck, with great leadership, essentially the perfect footy players...
Adam Goodes (picked 43), dual Brownlow-medallist.
Matthew Pavlich (literally NOT picked in his first draft), more AA selections than anyone else.
This exact show would’ve absolutely smashed north if they tanked the last game for the number 1 pick. Won’t win either way.
Yep. Hutchidiot would have opened the show with Disgraceful North Tank!
Been saying this for a while, Lloyd is the best footy journalist/commentator/personality going around. Integrity in his comments, truly knows the game, no real ego in his delivery, level-headed.
Hutchy saying put away larkey. Think he wants to give up the bnf to sheezle or ldu? Or a potential AA birth? Those things contribute to contracts
Larkey finished 3rd Coleman, got an AA squad nod, and Hutchy says he should have been benched for a month? He is putrid (and probably enjoys the backlash)
@@imalwaysright hes always hated north (coming from a dees fan) for some reason. I remember him saying they'd failed badly when they made a prelim with a pretty average team like waite at FF.
Lloyd made Caro look stupid with her Luke Hodge angle lmao. If you look at the previous #1 picks, you will see how much impact (or not) they’re having at their clubs. Takes more than #1 pick to win a premiership, and #2, #3 and so on are just as good. The media hype up the #1 pick. Sheezel and Wardlaw weren’t #1.
Also Hawks only got that Pick 1 after getting it off Freo (Pick 1 Assistance) in a trade for Trent Croad.
And the best player in Hodge draft went at 3 anyway, Judd.
Doesn't take much really
Buddy wasn’t #1 either, nor was Dusty. Errol Gulden was #32 & Chad Warner #40 …
@@ma3stro681 AA, likely Sydney 2023 B&F winner was #32!!?? I didn't know that. The game has so many legends and stars that were lowered ranked or even rookies.
Hutcho when he knows he's wrong
"That's ok"
The crazy part is I believe he thinks he’s right, he’s so delusional
Get the nude AfL calender 2024 Miss September Caro Starkers bending over
Hutchys got no right to have that say given his only relation to the sporting world is through media not participation. Non-player journos need to be reminded that they should stick to breaking stories around player/coaching movements/injuries/headlines etc. and not player skill/stratagy/indepth analysis, leave that to the people who have actually been there and done that.
People like Lloydy! Excellent comeback from him
The reason the constant tanking debate is so toxic is that it's probably the most symptomatic of how flippant and changeable journalists are in their opinions, they are just looking for a headline. One week it's West Coast should be tanking, or they were accused of it, for not putting an extra player behind the ball, in a match they had no right winning, the next week it's the Eagles and North have made huge errors winning matches of football. Say what you want about Simpson and Clarkson but they are premiership players (Simpson) and coaches and have zero interest in losing football matches. All of the variables involved in supposed tanking are so up in the air. Simpson is fighting for his life as a coach, players are fighting for contracts and respect in the game.
Caro's argument is ridiculous and very bare in context. Hawthorn built a premiership dynasty with one of the best coaches the games has seen and four top 10 picks in 20 years. Melbourne, Carlton, Richmond, Gold Coast and GWS have had more top 10 picks in the past two decades than Hawthorn will probably have this century. Earlier this year the media was criticizing Hawthorn for 'tanking' for making hard list changes, and all have been proven wholly wrong. I'm a Hawthorn fan and Clarko is right, yeah we got Hodge with our only ever #1 pick but we also picked up Roughead at #2, Croad and Ellis at #3, Franklin at #5, Lewis at #7, Rioli at #12, Crawford at #13 and Birchall at #14. No club would NOT have picked up Franklin at #1 in hindsight. At the end of the day the drive and mentality of players is the most important factor in winning premierships and there are a multitude of ways to pick up players capable of winning a premiership, through the draft, trade table and rookie and pre-season drafts. We picked up Sam Mitchell at 36, Breust at 47, Campbell Brown at 32, Paul Puopolo 66, Bateman 48, Shiels 34, Brad Hill 33, Will Langford 71, Duryea at 69, Ben Stratton 46. We picked up Clinton Young, Robert Campbell, Michael Osborne, Brad Sewell, Matt Suckling and Stephen Gilham in the rookie draft. We got Brent Guerra in the pre-season draft. All are premiership or multiple premiership players and most of them have played 200+ games.
Of all the #1 picks in the drafts since 1981, only Drew Banfield, Des Headland, Hodge, and Tom Boyd have won premierships, two for other clubs than the ones they were originally selected by... that's more a curse than an advantage I'd say.
For sure the number one pick gives you a good shot at it, but it's still very much an imperfect science. Even if the Eagles "tanked" and got the #1 pick, which they obviously did not, they would have a player on their hands who might have turned into a Jason Horne Francis situation in 12 months time, so they might well have split the pick with other clubs in any case... It's just a media narrative that's easy to push based on ignorance and a hunger for stories where there are none.
Why isn’t anyone talking about Jason Horne-Francis being the best example for this situation. He was drafted and left after one year.
they literally just did talk about it lol
Hardly @@RabAbb199
That was North's fault for taking an interstate player. Should have tried to get something local.
@@AlonsoRules thats his point. they might get reid anyway cos west coast will probably look at the JHF situation and pick a WA player
That's disgraceful from Hutchy. I don't support any of these teams, but surely these athletes always go out to do their best and let the chips fall where they may. If players like Buddy, Tom Hawkins or Charlie Dixon were asked by their coaches to tank for draft picks, I think I know what the answer would be.
For the life of me I don't know how hutchy gets a gig on TV. He knows nothing about how the game and a footy club actually work. He's as arrogant as they come yet he turns to mud when he's challenged.
If the roos did lose on the weekend, he would have been arguing that they were tanking.
Actually he's the owner of media companies
Did Caroline Wilson say something positive about North? Of course, Hutchison made a fool of himself again. Thank goodness Lloyd was there to make some sense. North didn't tank because it's not Carlton.
Hutchy is a genius
You’re here because of Lloyd’s comments last night on Footy Classified.
‘No one will remember that game one way or another , ever’ I’ve seen the highlights of the Melbourne tanking game with McMahon smoking one from 50 rolled out nearly every season .
Lloyd just savaged him lol
Didn’t seem to work when Melbourne was reported to do something like that in the 2010’s. Got Watts, Scully and Trengrove but all never were developed properly plus the culture etc was poor until Roos came in.
Same for the Philadelphia 76ers when they tanked big and besides Embid where are those player they got now and still haven’t won a championship as of now.
Get the right people in to develop the talent, culture etc and look what happens regardless if the player is a no 1, no 7 pick etc
And if they do tank, the media comes for their heads! This mob were accusing Sam Mitchell of tanking earlier in the year
To further the basketball analogy (although played out) a majority of Miami’s finals run teams have been constructed of mostly late lottery - late first round and undrafted players, just because you get the first pick does not guarantee winning, and pick 2 is not a far drop from #1
Jokic was drafted during a Taco Bell commercial
Hutchy, Hutchy, Hutchy. I don't know how I could disagree with you any more... And then he tells Caro to stop yelling after she quite simply pointed out why he was wrong. Culture is far more important than one player in one draft and giving players a reason for optimism and giving them the emotional nourishment of winning is far more important than any one singular player.
Not only that, but blatant tanking is also flat out illegal in the AFL, and that is a policy I think the NBA would do well to adopt. Just like winning is a habit, losing is also a habit, and it becomes to far engrained when it is encouraged. The players for North will now go into the offseason with a little bit of confidence that all the hard work they're putting in on the training track is working and it will deliver good results if they keep sticking to it. Also I reckon Lloyd could be right about West Coast going with Daniel Curtin meaning Harley Reid can go to North. Even if West Coast go with Reid, North will still get Daniel Curtin. Who knows, maybe Curtin ends up being better than Reid. All throughout the 2016 draft process, Hugh McCluggage was being touted as the Number 1 pick. Then, during the last few weeks, Andrew McGrath and Tim Taranto shot up the rankings and Hugh went 3rd. All three are incredibly good players, and you can argue about Hugh and Tim Taranto, but I'd have to say Andy McGrath is the third best out of those three despite going 1st overall. Point is, these things are never exact sciences and you can't bank your future on one pick in one draft, even if it is the first overall pick.
4:56 He calls that yelling?
Hutchy seems to have conveniently forgotten that they had a number one pick two years ago and he's already gone. Can't keep talent if you don't have a winning culture. Can't build a winning culture if you don't win. Madness to suggest otherwise
All that cholesterol gotten to hutchys Brian
Hutchy is not embarrassed to make a fool of himself…..
Lloyd was taking no prisoners on this topic 🤣 He had hutchy dancing around the subject the whole time.
sheezel was picked at #3 .. and look how great he has been for the club .. JHF? who is he lol
Hutchinson is so full of it. It doesn't matter where you are on the ladder. You always play to win or don't play.
North Melbourne should have at least a couple more wins under their belt, they could've beaten Sydney and Essendon bit due to the youth and lack of composure in those games they only got 3 wins. West Coast were always gonna finish bottom and had the number 1 pick so to say they should've tanked is a bad call. I do agree that if that's his opinion thats fine but you don't necessarily need to agree with it
Hutchy is very smart, clearly saying whatever he thinks will generate clicks
No other sports coverage in the world promotes and encourages tanking quite like Footy on Nine.
I can't believe football has got to the point that if you don't throw a game to get the number 1 pick there is something wrong with you. 1 I'm pretty sure that is illegal and 2 they need to make it a ballot for the last 3 teams to try to stamp out this crap.
exactly mate.. the media report it like north were stupid by winning
Whatsvthis obsession with Curtin the past couple of weeks??? He wasnt being talked about for top 5 not long ago.
Its almost like theyre desperate to convince West Coast to take him and not Reid.
Hahaha so see through these muppets.
The VIC media are desperate to avoid WCE getting the best player in the draft, so they’re openly pushing Curtin as this “homegrown talent” that WCE are crazy about. Eagles list boss Gavin Bell and recruiting manager Rohen O’Brien have both talked about and defended their interest in Harley Reid. There’s literally no noise from the West about Eagles looking to trade out of pick 1 to get Curtin.
Wasn’t Hutchy accusing him he hawks of tanking earlier in the year and now he’s saying it’s ok to tank.
I'm a Carlton supporter and all of our number 1 picks have been really good players. None of them have gotten the club anywhere near winning a flag. Weitering and Walsh might.... But that proves the point. The club finally has depth across the ground which is what you need. You need 10 very good players and a bunch of role players. Not just pick 1. Go through every draft and you could argue there's better players (multiple) than pick 1. Pick 1 is usually a good 250 game player, but not the guy that wins you the flag.
If you win a game, you have sabotaged your chance to get the #1 pick, but if you deliberately lose the same game, you are tanking.....no win situation here.
Talk like this (Hutchy) gives more weight to the concept of a bottom end lottery system.
Which is a concept that is mostly driven by media commentators' thoughts and expression (like this one) rather than from a playing football perspective.
Would it have been a better situation for North to lose the game, yes more than likely, but they got Clarko for his ability to take teams to win games, not for his ability to tank games.
Shocking take on this by Hutchy.
maybe Curtin doesnt want to leave Perth and come to Melb
So the AFL Media are now upset coaches don’t intentionally lose games 😂😂
Why do these people talk about tanking as though it’s a viable option? No sport in the world allows teams to throw games. They might as well be discussing whether players should take steroids.
Tore Hutchy a new one!!
So, Hutchy is happy for clubs to cheat and tank to gain access to better draft picks and players, what a morally bankrupt person.
What basketball team?
Me every week: "I really don't think Hutchy can say anything more stupid than that."
Hutchy next week: "Hold my beer."
Hutchy hasnt got a clue
Thats yelling? Cmon Hutcho. Seriously he is so bad.
Was always going to be a lose-lose in the media's eyes for North. If they lost, the media would be carrying on about how they tanked and it's a stain on the league, and this is the result of them winning. Lloyd the only one talking any sense here
I could pick a star without the no 1 draft pick. If you think Harley Reid is the only talent in Oz then you are deluded. No offense to the young Harley
Hutchinson is right. He's thinking like an owner (coach) and not like an employee (player). Long term thinking always wins.
Luke Hodge went at pick one, Dusty Martin at pick two, plenty of other pick ones and twos have gone on to be completely mediocre... why are they arguing about whether pick one instead of pick two will completely change the landscape of an entire football club for the foreseeable future? I thought tanking was a bad thing but here you've got a bloke that said the roos should have actively tanked to get pick one instead of two? Get your hand off it.
The only way to stop teams from tanking is that the AFL need to stop rewarding poor performance. The wooden spoon should be NOTHING to be proud of, the team who finishes last does NOT deserve a prize. Teams should be embarrassed to finish last.
As far as I'm concerned, the team that finishes on the bottom of the ladder should be penalised; that penalty should be that they miss out on the top 5 picks.
Teams from 17th to 13th should each be given 1 of the first 5 draft picks randomly.
This will give teams incentive to play to win games and avoid finishing on the bottom.
Teams 12th and above are generally all vying for a spot in the top 8 to play finals. Teams that miss out on finals should all get higher picks than those who make the 8. This is merely just to balance out the comp.
The bottom team will be forced to develop a "winning culture" and not rely on the No.1 draft pick
How can we actually have a segment discussing if the result of a game should have been manipulated by the coach, your happy to tell your team to lose a game, and deny your supporters a win, to earn a draft. Its blatant corruption. You play to win bottom line.
There are pros and cons to tanking. Whether there are more pros than cons is up for debate based on the specific circumstances.
The AFL should stop rewarding teams for finishing last, then there won't be any reason to tank.
Tanking is against the spirit of the game. People don't pay their hard-earned money to watch their team throw a game.
How many pick 1’s have won a premiership since 2000?
2
@@jbwood7951 Exactly. Hodge and Boyd I think. 2 out of 24 years or so.
@@effkay3691 yep correct
They always go to crap teams
Good Lord sometimes the takes on this show make me cringe. Caro's take on Hodge wasn't great bc she left out all the other players they got around the same time. Hutchy, istg is just trying to be a contrarian with that tanking conversation thread. Not sure about Kane's Ben Mackay section, personally either I think would be good. Thank GOD for people like Lloydo, he's basically the only reason I watch this show. 100% agree, winning that game was more important than securing no.1 pick, hands down.
Caro saying kind words towards North at the end i nearly fell off my chair.
So the media gets upset when a team doesnt tank?
I'm glad Caro was disgusted by his comments.
That's why hutchy accused Simpson of tanking. It's because that's what he would do.
4:56 that's like low key sexist af and he wanted North to tank?? Like bro is fumbling this bag hard
Get Hutch off the program…
Go Lordo! 🙌🏽
Funny how Hutchy is advocating tanking yet years ago when the Demons supposedly did that,they were villified😂
Wasnt he and kane accusing the eagles of tanking? And now hes saying kangaroos should have tanked?
Caro! Your hair always looks lovely
Hutchy hates north
you play to win every moment, even if you're 20 goals down in some bush league, you play to get the next goal or defend.
if you tank as a team for a number one pick you're kidding yourself winning over personal every day of the week!
Tanking? Funny how this conversation comes up every year, yet if a team wants to rest players (like I believe Collingwood should have done weeks ago with 1st essentially confirmed) then it is somehow 'against the spirit of the game'. ???
As if Clarkson doesn’t know who Dan Curtin is
It is strange as a sporting team owner to encourage tanking.
No team in a professional competition will tank. It makes no sense... You cant tell your players hey don't go 100% today we need to lose. Thats where players will start dropping and leaving to other clubs. Notice how Kane was quiet that whole time? yeah cause he has accused Norf and West Coast AND THE HAWKS for tanking all year. i don't know how you people have jobs on this show you come up and spray the most bs comments ever. Lloydy the only one that knows what he is talking about.
Kane and Caro are absolute 🤡, a wins a win, the media in the AFL is so toxic these days, the tanking allegations are ridiculous that north and West Coast won a game late in the season
Just gonna say there is more chance Reid will be retained in WA then Curtin in Victoria, so if I was eagles I’d take Reid and grab Curtin in a couple years
just read the title and tell me this isn't a stupid segment
Hutchy is purely a business man and this comment shows how out of touch with the common fan and even afl teams and cultures. But it also shows a flawed system when it can be that easily manipulated by people like hutchy.
Did Lloyd seriously just question whether the general had anything to do with hawthorn's culture change?
Silly Lloyd.
This is what happens when he got bullied on The Footy Show all those years ago.
Am i hearing you right,Hutchison?! You're saying you condone tanking?! I think you're being ridiculous again! It's as though you NEVER played football yourself. And Caro wasn't yelling!
Hutcjy last week "Eagles should have tanked" This week "Roos should have tanked" Just cause he peobably never won a game in his life and eats dohnuts for breakfast doesnt mean everyone else needs to try underhanded tactics to try get advantages. He is a bloody joke.
how does Hutchy get a gig on this show , surely get someone like Joel Selwood to replace him
Hutchy loves that AFL KFC sponsor ( cheap shot )
Teams have done it in the past! Nothing new . . . (Collingwood, Hawthorn, Carlton, famously Melbourne to name a few) . . .
I’m glad the North supporter are starting to come round to the idea that pick 1 isn’t all that….just means WCE can pick Harley Reid in peace 😊
WCE might go for curtin ..