@@ChrissRoss1 Well, cappa isn't played on t1 even in legacy. It's usually t3-5, consider it 8cast's Murktide Regent. Yes, hypothetically it enters early and obliterates the opponent, but they are good at ending the game at any moment. Especially cappa, since it often can grow to 8/8-10/10 and just solo crush you in 2 swings
I love how we had a video from Gavin Verhey only a few days ago talking about Ward and defending it, albeit admitting they made some mistakes with it, including Kappa Cannoneer because of the unforeseen consequence of it being a powerhouse in Legacy, and now it's being included in a fucking straight-to-modern set.
No and not even close. Eldrazi Winter was a thing because Eye of Ugin reduced the cost of all your eldrazi by 2 so you could vomit out a playset of Mimics and then turn 2 play a thought knot to swing for basically lethal. I don't think the new Sol Land is going to be played in either Tron variant because neither Tron variant plays very many 7+ cmc drops. Green plays what 2 Ulamog and an Ugin with some lists starting to play big Karn again. While Eldrazi plays 2 all is dust and maybe 1 Ugin and or Ulamog. Nowhere near enough big drops to be worth playing more then 1 as a utility land. The sol land works much better in an Affinity List because they play 12 7+ cmc drops
@@pathora4484 There was a popular UR build that ran Elder Deep-Fiend. You also now have Nulldrifter as a 7 drop as well. Even if you don't have the explosive drop 2-3 Eldrazi on 1 anymore, your Labyrinths not being legendary is huge. Also, depending on the list, it might not actually be usable for Affinity. Note that it can imprint a "colorless" spell. That means Thought Monitor does not work. Sojourner's Companion is the only the card that Affinity still runs and would work (Myr Enforcer is not good enough). So you have a total of 4 copies of 1 card, not "12 7+ drops." It's definitely a Tron card, but not Affinity unless they get some new hits.
Also he was freaking out with the escape ability but you have to exile at least 4 different card types from your gy to escape it. So you are reducing baby goyfs power and toughness to escape it.
Nethergoyf is going to be stupid in Death Shadow. Fetch+babble+cycling wraith+push+thoughtseize... There its more often than not going to be a 3/4 by t2. Heck, in magic christmas land it can be a 5/6 in t2 in that deck. It has 0 deck building cost (other than making space for it), it just wants you to do what you already do. And the deck could totally use an early creature that softens the opponent a bit and soaks a removal so the shadows can finish in one swing. I am sure it will be good in other decks, but Ill be surprised if its not a 4 of in that deck.
I think Faeries is gonna LOVE the new Flare. Cast Spellstutter Sprite, Sac your Sprite for another CounterSpell Also I wish you talked about it but the new Wight of the Reliquary is probably an insane card. Not only is it a vigilant creature that ramps you but it’s +1/+1 text makes it just grow exponentially.
I hope Faeries will be playable in Modern, its fun in standard but the power house of the deck are non-faerie cards. I love merfolk in Modern, but lets see some faerie modern love!!!!
@@VoidGivenForm I see your a person of class and taste! I also play affinity and with Sim Synthesizer as a new toy, I think affinity is going to be veryyyy fun to play.
I think Kappa Cannoneer will be fine in Modern. Modern doesn't have the fast Mana ramp for Artifact decks that Legacy has and plenty of answers to keep Affinity in check for the most part.
While you were talking about Nethergofy, I think future removal will be able to keep up. Look at pick your poison, 1{G} removal card that IMMEDIATELY made it into every format, so I think we are going to see standard sets that print crazy removal with many options to keep cards at bay.....the question is how long will it take to get created...
I honestly don't think Flare of Denial is as good as you think simply because it requires a nontoken creature. Merfolk is also a deck that is not known to recover very well from its creatures being removed and this is a card that 2 for 1s yourself. It is also strictly worse than Force of Will and Force of Negation because it requires a blue creature to be in play to be able to cast it rather than just an extra blue card in hand. Also also, with modern and legacy being such removal heavy formats, the cost of sacrificing a creature to free cast means 90% of the time you are just casting it as a Cancel. This card is being way overhyped.
Honestly once (fingers crossed) goyf and bolt are in pioneer I ain’t gonna bitch about modern anymore. I’ll fully accept modern as the new legacy and pioneer modern
I'm going to go on a limb here but if you check winter orb's flavor texte it says " Naromin, VETERAN EXPLORER ", I am begging for modern legal nic fit. And btw some card ideas are really cool (especially from some colorless/energy cards cards) but it definitly just feels like a powercreep push to make the product sell :/
man I love how passionate and articulate you are when talking about magic I could listen to you for hours, Magic content creator are shifting into EDH gameplay that I find boring af, you and the The Trinket Mage are my go to Magic creators nowadays, I like to hear about the nuances of the game not "tHiS iS tHe bEsT EDH dEcK". I'm a commander player who got into it last year, after 20 years without playing magic, but I still watch your Modern videos, I would love to play Modern but is not affordable for me. cheeers from BC
I really doubt Nethergoyf's potential. It only caring about your graveyard hurts its ability to grow a lot when compared to Tarmogoyf (for example: this dies to lightning bolt in a way that Tarmogoyf doesn't!). And the fact that you need to Delirium to Escape also means you're likely going to eating at its own growth to bring it back. Overall it seems like it's just another cute installment in the Goyf family.
You can escape this by exiling less than four cards if you play cards with multiple types due to the way it's worded, though. An Urza's Saga and any artifact creature are enough to pay for it, for example. And you only want to escape it in later turns anyway, when your GY likely has multiple cards of each type, so that cost will be less prohibitive than it seems. Also, while only counting cards in your own graveyard does make its growth slower, it also means you can play as much graveyard hate as you want and not impact your Goyfs in any way. For example, this goes really well with Dauthi Voidwalker and Leyline of the Void, whereas Tarmogoyf was a pretty bad nonbo with those cards. And even taking aside all of that, this costs half the mana, is in a much more self-mill friendly color and has virtually endless recursion unless it gets exiled. There's absolutely no way it'll be just "another cute installment in the Goyf family".
@@graylord69 Yes, I’m aware of what Delirium is. That’s why I said Delirium. And we’ve already had self-mill friendly mill Goyf variants as recently as LCI. If self-mill friendly was so important than it would’ve already manifested in those variants seeing play. Not to mention green is already a very self-mill friendly color, and people already played Goyf with GY hate in the past.
Sorry but I think you are overreacting, Cannoneer is fine in Modern (Improvise =/= Affinity), Ugin's Labyrinth is barely playable in Tron, Nethergoyf is smaller than Tarmogoyf and way smaller than Death's Shadow, Flare of Denial is only playable in very specific decks, etc etc. Overall, this is confirming my suspicions that MH3 would be tame compared to the brokenness of MH2. They got a lot of feedback on MH2 being too strong and this is the result.
The only things that were "too strong" in MH2 were the two Evokementals from Scam, one of which has been banned, even if it did take two damn years to do so.
I guess with Flare of Denial, I finally have my 0-mana counter for Endurance in Dredge. Not looking forward to colorless BS again. 4 mana Karn has always been an issue because it's just too good as a tool box with fast mana. It also shuts down Affinity's mana-base. If Tron takes off again, the card is going to be a problem. Nulldrifter and Elder Deep Fiend will probably push any Eldrazi builds into blue. It should be noted that Ugin's Labyrinth lets colorless deck dodge Thoughtseize, which is pretty stupid. That probably shouldn't be a thing in a format that doesn't have Wasteland.
flare of denial needs testing, it's not a free spell, you invest the mana of the creature into it which could be anywhere from 1 to 3 or even 4, it can be played around more easily than FoN, it's a far cry from force of will, furthermore historically cards that require you to tap or sac creatures have performed very poorly in merfolk, as it's pretty much the last deck in the format that fairly beats you with 2/2s and it needs lots of them on table to do so. Lots of testing will required, maybe it will perform well, maybe it will be mediocre, regardless shouldn't be a bad card to own a playset of.
Chthonian Nightmare is really interesting. I wonder if energy as a deck will be a thing in modern after this set. I remember when it was menace in standard. I could see Chthonian Nightmare being useful for a midrange grindy type energy deck maybe, but I'm more interested in energy as a concept in modern than this specific card.
I dont think it's a problem. I'd rather have a format that rotates through new cards, rather than how it currently rotates, through bans. stop whining and wait for the set to come out before you determine its a problem. I run domain zoo as my main deck, so you'd think i'd want changes the least, but no. new cards are fun.
You can't snap a flare of denial. It's two alternate casting costs. If you could snap a force effect, then he would have still seen play in modern these past few years because of force of negation.
Karnstructs don't use +1/+1 counters, they get +1/+1 for each artifact u ctrl so people can put a -1/-1 counter on them n then proliferate it n also when u blow up someone's artifacts their karnstruct gets smaller. The Kudo doesn't remove abilities so yes u would still be powering up a karnstruct the same as u would a 0/0 that had +1/+1 counters on it but do to interactions like the aforementioned proliferate, please don't confuse people by misrepresentating cards n tokens. U need to slow down n read cards better if u r going to continue being a content creator cuz newer players r going to look to u for info so don't misinform them.
at 1:16 "Kappa is a 1 mana 4/4" actually it is a 1 mana 5/5 as it triggers itself etb
Not 1 mana, improvise works like convoke, not affinity.
@@byronsmothers8064 so 5 cheerios and a land its out on turn 1.
The new dragon can be used in affinity
it's also not just 1 mana.
@@ChrissRoss1 Well, cappa isn't played on t1 even in legacy. It's usually t3-5, consider it 8cast's Murktide Regent. Yes, hypothetically it enters early and obliterates the opponent, but they are good at ending the game at any moment. Especially cappa, since it often can grow to 8/8-10/10 and just solo crush you in 2 swings
Worth noting, the little ghostGoyf is only powered by your own graveyard. So not quite as strong as tarmo but same principles apply.
only 1 mana, in a more relevant color to fill your graveyards and with recursion. I'll argue it might be stronger.
@@rocktop-games I would have to agree. With these factors in mind in certain shells it could potentially be stronger. Just worth noting I thought ✌️
@@rocktop-gamesit will be irrelevant
But this makes a difference, bolt your dork, tarmogoyf is a 3/4
While this one would be a 2/3.. I dont know how much this will matter
I love how we had a video from Gavin Verhey only a few days ago talking about Ward and defending it, albeit admitting they made some mistakes with it, including Kappa Cannoneer because of the unforeseen consequence of it being a powerhouse in Legacy, and now it's being included in a fucking straight-to-modern set.
modern doesnt have nearly as much affinty support as it did, granted.... that card is gonna be CRAAAZY fun to play
Eldrazi Winter might be back on the menu Boys!!!
Eldrazi Summer*
Its seems like they did it... On purpose?
No and not even close. Eldrazi Winter was a thing because Eye of Ugin reduced the cost of all your eldrazi by 2 so you could vomit out a playset of Mimics and then turn 2 play a thought knot to swing for basically lethal. I don't think the new Sol Land is going to be played in either Tron variant because neither Tron variant plays very many 7+ cmc drops. Green plays what 2 Ulamog and an Ugin with some lists starting to play big Karn again. While Eldrazi plays 2 all is dust and maybe 1 Ugin and or Ulamog. Nowhere near enough big drops to be worth playing more then 1 as a utility land. The sol land works much better in an Affinity List because they play 12 7+ cmc drops
@@pathora4484 im going to hold out hope because of all the stuff yet to be spoiled it may return we wont know until mores cards get revealed
@@pathora4484 There was a popular UR build that ran Elder Deep-Fiend. You also now have Nulldrifter as a 7 drop as well. Even if you don't have the explosive drop 2-3 Eldrazi on 1 anymore, your Labyrinths not being legendary is huge. Also, depending on the list, it might not actually be usable for Affinity. Note that it can imprint a "colorless" spell. That means Thought Monitor does not work. Sojourner's Companion is the only the card that Affinity still runs and would work (Myr Enforcer is not good enough). So you have a total of 4 copies of 1 card, not "12 7+ drops." It's definitely a Tron card, but not Affinity unless they get some new hits.
Worth mentioning that Nethergoyf only counts your graveyard, unlike Tarmo that counts all graveyards. So Nethergoyf at 2 does die to bolt.
Also he was freaking out with the escape ability but you have to exile at least 4 different card types from your gy to escape it. So you are reducing baby goyfs power and toughness to escape it.
So you have to exile for an example a creature, a land, an instant and a sorcery among the cards to escape baby goyf. This isn't a forever threat.
Nethergoyf is going to be stupid in Death Shadow. Fetch+babble+cycling wraith+push+thoughtseize... There its more often than not going to be a 3/4 by t2. Heck, in magic christmas land it can be a 5/6 in t2 in that deck.
It has 0 deck building cost (other than making space for it), it just wants you to do what you already do. And the deck could totally use an early creature that softens the opponent a bit and soaks a removal so the shadows can finish in one swing.
I am sure it will be good in other decks, but Ill be surprised if its not a 4 of in that deck.
I think Faeries is gonna LOVE the new Flare. Cast Spellstutter Sprite, Sac your Sprite for another CounterSpell
Also I wish you talked about it but the new Wight of the Reliquary is probably an insane card. Not only is it a vigilant creature that ramps you but it’s +1/+1 text makes it just grow exponentially.
I hope Faeries will be playable in Modern, its fun in standard but the power house of the deck are non-faerie cards. I love merfolk in Modern, but lets see some faerie modern love!!!!
@@Svergara1 faerie and affinty player myself. super excited for this set!!
@@VoidGivenForm I see your a person of class and taste! I also play affinity and with Sim Synthesizer as a new toy, I think affinity is going to be veryyyy fun to play.
I think Kappa Cannoneer will be fine in Modern. Modern doesn't have the fast Mana ramp for Artifact decks that Legacy has and plenty of answers to keep Affinity in check for the most part.
my thoughts exactly, but MH4 will bring us a new opal, dont worry ;)
Wanna play ”gues how manycards will get banned and in what format”
As a Faerie / Affinity / Merfolk enthusiast, I'm very excited for this set!!!!!!
While you were talking about Nethergofy, I think future removal will be able to keep up. Look at pick your poison, 1{G} removal card that IMMEDIATELY made it into every format, so I think we are going to see standard sets that print crazy removal with many options to keep cards at bay.....the question is how long will it take to get created...
I honestly don't think Flare of Denial is as good as you think simply because it requires a nontoken creature. Merfolk is also a deck that is not known to recover very well from its creatures being removed and this is a card that 2 for 1s yourself. It is also strictly worse than Force of Will and Force of Negation because it requires a blue creature to be in play to be able to cast it rather than just an extra blue card in hand. Also also, with modern and legacy being such removal heavy formats, the cost of sacrificing a creature to free cast means 90% of the time you are just casting it as a Cancel. This card is being way overhyped.
Honestly once (fingers crossed) goyf and bolt are in pioneer I ain’t gonna bitch about modern anymore. I’ll fully accept modern as the new legacy and pioneer modern
I'm going to go on a limb here but if you check winter orb's flavor texte it says " Naromin, VETERAN EXPLORER ", I am begging for modern legal nic fit.
And btw some card ideas are really cool (especially from some colorless/energy cards cards) but it definitly just feels like a powercreep push to make the product sell :/
man I love how passionate and articulate you are when talking about magic I could listen to you for hours, Magic content creator are shifting into EDH gameplay that I find boring af, you and the The Trinket Mage are my go to Magic creators nowadays, I like to hear about the nuances of the game not "tHiS iS tHe bEsT EDH dEcK". I'm a commander player who got into it last year, after 20 years without playing magic, but I still watch your Modern videos, I would love to play Modern but is not affordable for me. cheeers from BC
Play flare of denial in spirits.
I find it funny they changed the wording on Kappa Cannoneer even though its a somewhat new card.
right? I thought the one from Morska Pre-con didn't proc its own etb
@@ChrissRoss1 it was just worded strange on first printing. it does trigger on itself
Tbh, winter moon in a deck like blue moon or mono red prison could be mean. Also, any of the flares + leyline of the guildpact?
Ugin's Labyrinth doesn't need to imprint a permanent
I’ll be playing Flare of Denial in Spirits. They’re all Blue too. Can’t wait!
Nethergoyf with arclight, vengevine, and narcamoeba
Oh boy, cant wait for modern to get its 3rd totally not a rotation
It ALWAYS rotated.
Null elemental blast is needlessly cracked, especially in the current meta
4x null elemental blast is a little bit psychopathic, but definitely a great sideboard option for colorless decks
Does remove Leyline…
@@satansamael666 leyline decks HOSED by the 4 of null sideboard if youre crazy enough to shove 4 slots XD
@@VoidGivenForm I mean it does. Maybe not 4 main board but I can see 4 total anywhere.
I really doubt Nethergoyf's potential. It only caring about your graveyard hurts its ability to grow a lot when compared to Tarmogoyf (for example: this dies to lightning bolt in a way that Tarmogoyf doesn't!). And the fact that you need to Delirium to Escape also means you're likely going to eating at its own growth to bring it back. Overall it seems like it's just another cute installment in the Goyf family.
You can escape this by exiling less than four cards if you play cards with multiple types due to the way it's worded, though. An Urza's Saga and any artifact creature are enough to pay for it, for example. And you only want to escape it in later turns anyway, when your GY likely has multiple cards of each type, so that cost will be less prohibitive than it seems.
Also, while only counting cards in your own graveyard does make its growth slower, it also means you can play as much graveyard hate as you want and not impact your Goyfs in any way. For example, this goes really well with Dauthi Voidwalker and Leyline of the Void, whereas Tarmogoyf was a pretty bad nonbo with those cards.
And even taking aside all of that, this costs half the mana, is in a much more self-mill friendly color and has virtually endless recursion unless it gets exiled. There's absolutely no way it'll be just "another cute installment in the Goyf family".
@@graylord69 Yes, I’m aware of what Delirium is. That’s why I said Delirium. And we’ve already had self-mill friendly mill Goyf variants as recently as LCI. If self-mill friendly was so important than it would’ve already manifested in those variants seeing play.
Not to mention green is already a very self-mill friendly color, and people already played Goyf with GY hate in the past.
Sorry but I think you are overreacting, Cannoneer is fine in Modern (Improvise =/= Affinity), Ugin's Labyrinth is barely playable in Tron, Nethergoyf is smaller than Tarmogoyf and way smaller than Death's Shadow, Flare of Denial is only playable in very specific decks, etc etc. Overall, this is confirming my suspicions that MH3 would be tame compared to the brokenness of MH2. They got a lot of feedback on MH2 being too strong and this is the result.
Opinions are good. I think you are more wrong than right in this comment.
The only things that were "too strong" in MH2 were the two Evokementals from Scam, one of which has been banned, even if it did take two damn years to do so.
For one we still don’t have all the cards in the set so all people can do is wait and see how strong these cards are.
He is deffinitelly over reacting to some of the cards. but you are underselling some of this also.
So an untaped land on turn 1 adding 2 mana is meh right?
I guess with Flare of Denial, I finally have my 0-mana counter for Endurance in Dredge. Not looking forward to colorless BS again. 4 mana Karn has always been an issue because it's just too good as a tool box with fast mana. It also shuts down Affinity's mana-base. If Tron takes off again, the card is going to be a problem. Nulldrifter and Elder Deep Fiend will probably push any Eldrazi builds into blue. It should be noted that Ugin's Labyrinth lets colorless deck dodge Thoughtseize, which is pretty stupid. That probably shouldn't be a thing in a format that doesn't have Wasteland.
wow didnt think of dredge at first, but manaless dredge will love that card
Nethergoyf won’t make much of an impact
I think this is gonna be a pretty tame horizons set compared to the last one
Im just happy to see so much Affinity love with the big score and Kappa im beyond stoaked
Flare of Denial in mill.
Yeah, I agree the power creep is a bit much.
flare of denial needs testing, it's not a free spell, you invest the mana of the creature into it which could be anywhere from 1 to 3 or even 4, it can be played around more easily than FoN, it's a far cry from force of will, furthermore historically cards that require you to tap or sac creatures have performed very poorly in merfolk, as it's pretty much the last deck in the format that fairly beats you with 2/2s and it needs lots of them on table to do so. Lots of testing will required, maybe it will perform well, maybe it will be mediocre, regardless shouldn't be a bad card to own a playset of.
Chthonian Nightmare is really interesting. I wonder if energy as a deck will be a thing in modern after this set. I remember when it was menace in standard. I could see Chthonian Nightmare being useful for a midrange grindy type energy deck maybe, but I'm more interested in energy as a concept in modern than this specific card.
Null Elemental Blast is fun
Nethergoyf only counts your graveyard thankfully
Loving the energy!!
" restrictions dosent matter " yes they do, and thats whats really great with most of these, powerful card, but with real deck restrictions
Nethergoyf in mill? I’m not sure it would be good but just a question
Self mill? I’m struggling to find your logic here. (Only your graveyard, not your opponent’s)
Ward: Lose the Game
Tron got a new land to make it so it's online even if you exile one of the pieces, even if it only taps for 1 or filters
Ugin’s Labyrinth imprinted with a draco with Leyline on the field means you could turn 1 a Draco onto the field…
Nope. You have to tap the land to put Draco back in hand… so you won’t get the 2 mana
@@youbluethatone1017 not if your starting hand has two in it…
Would buying some packs be a good idea for getting into the format / starting a deck?
Honestly, when I saw Nethergoyf my first thought was 8Rack
Nethergoyf is better than ragavan
1 mana 4/5 easly
If blue tron exits meme territory for dream territory I will be so happy.
game is dead...
Must be satire
You need to look at Urzas cave. As a uncommon it’s really good
Flare of denial is gunna be lit
It's eldrazi summer baby
I dont think it's a problem. I'd rather have a format that rotates through new cards, rather than how it currently rotates, through bans. stop whining and wait for the set to come out before you determine its a problem. I run domain zoo as my main deck, so you'd think i'd want changes the least, but no. new cards are fun.
Flare of denial might hint at the return of snapcaster mage. Essentially, its a 2 mana counterspell.
You can't snap a flare of denial. It's two alternate casting costs. If you could snap a force effect, then he would have still seen play in modern these past few years because of force of negation.
That Land Ugins Labyrinth isnt even legendary...
Every set makes me more convinced that WOTC is just ruining magic 1 cash grab at a time.
Well Modern Horizons notoriously does this nonsense. Legitimately game warping/breaking every time
nether goyf is bad bad bad
Karnstructs don't use +1/+1 counters, they get +1/+1 for each artifact u ctrl so people can put a -1/-1 counter on them n then proliferate it n also when u blow up someone's artifacts their karnstruct gets smaller. The Kudo doesn't remove abilities so yes u would still be powering up a karnstruct the same as u would a 0/0 that had +1/+1 counters on it but do to interactions like the aforementioned proliferate, please don't confuse people by misrepresentating cards n tokens. U need to slow down n read cards better if u r going to continue being a content creator cuz newer players r going to look to u for info so don't misinform them.
I can hear no Tasha laughting in the back with the amount of Tron support…if Eldrazi Winter is comin…🥲