As a brickie I would love for these to become common practice. It could be useful for a video to show just how time consuming and awkward a traditional dpc tray is to install; and the possibilities of shortcuts which will be never seen yet undermine the whole endeavour.
Yes it is you but not everything on Skill Builder is for everyone. This video is for architects and big builders on high rise and bricklayers who will be putting these systems in. I am sure a lot of general builders will be interested from an academic point of view even if they are not the market.
Grenfell highlighted building controls lack of checks and understanding, I've seen these kind of products used before in self builds and custom homes but never in production or larger sites. It's nice to see innovation but unless BC checks are more thorough and regulated or every build is filmed start to finish it's highly unlikely these products will actually be installed given the statement the other day by production building companies that "meeting higher epc ratings makes properties too expensive to sell".
It's not lack of checks, the for regs were doing their job. Then a tragedy happened, and you look into them again. Don't think another tragedy won't happen again, it will and then the investigation will find out why. This is how all safety is done, you can't predict everything.
Hi Shawn, thank you for your query. Keyfix Non-combustible Cavity Trays are installed within the external skin of masonry and has no connection with the inner skin. With no connection between external and inner skin, there is no risk of a thermal bridge, therefore, there is no transfer of cold damp air to meet heat transferring from inner skin and as a result there is no risk of condensation forming on Stainless Steel Keyfix NCCT.
@@garyfardon8841 That's the regs, but pretty much most apartment buildings below that are doing this. Because they can't sell the apartment and the new owners won't be able to sell later on. It's the banks, they won't mortgage a apartment that doesn't meet those for standard even if they don't come under the regs.
as a apprentice in the 70s ii was taught a cavity tray protected moisture from above not hitting the top of window, door frames, pre insulation in the cavity
Hi, thank you for sharing your query. A Cavity Tray is required over all bridges or penetrations of the cavity within an external wall. The primary function is to capture moisture running down the internal surface of the external skin of masonry and also moisture dripping off wall ties within the nominal 50mm ‘clear cavity’. Once captured, the moisture must be restricted from travelling horizontally across the cavity to insulation within the cavity and expelled out of the cavity via Weep Vents.
Roger that looked to be engineered very well. When you were testing the weep holes of the cavity tray with the banding strap - it appeared it popped out underneath (10:07) the tray rather than on top - how did that happen?
Hi Norman, thank you for sharing your query. The Keyfix Non Combustible Cavity Tray System overlaps Ribbed End Corner Unit with Brick Trays. When banding strap is used to check that the secondary weep vents are clear, the Banding Strap is pushed between the space created in the overlap to ensure there is no mortar in this space and therefore facilitate efficient moisture drainage.
Interesting systems them would like just fixing a timber catnic lintel but multiples of them. As bricklayer would these systems would be lot bet than dpc trays.
And I'd say a building control issue where inspectors aren't doing what they should. Refusing to sign off unless they see everything is what they should do but recent experience suggests not. When I asked "Did you see the steel beams installed? Are they siting on bearing plates or padstones?" And the reply was we rarely see the joist as the builder has already covered it up.
@@monday7150 Most channels now have comment protection on by default so if anyone posts a link the comment will automatically be removed. So a youtube search would just be easier.
We should be using hempcrete for fire barriers instead of metal. This is because hempcrete does not conduct heat so if there is something flammable that has dropped on top of the hempcrete it will not set on fire. But if we use stainless steel the stainless steel will heat up and ignite anything that is touching it.
Obviously This is about cavtiy trays not fire barriers. The fire barrier , Rockwool wrapped in red polythene can be seen below the cavity tray. The cavity tray, as explained, is there to take moisture back to the outside of the structure. It is used above points that form a bridge, in this case that is the fire barrier but it could be anything.
Hi, thank you for sharing your query. In addition to Skill Builder’s response above, Keyfix have introduced a range of Non-Combustible Cavity Trays manufactured from Grade 304 (or Grade 316 if required) Stainless Steel in response to non-combustible components required in compliance to Building Regulations Document B. Stainless Steel is classed as an A1 fire-rated non-combustible and therefore does not contribute to growth or spread of fire as a result of flaming droplets.
Glenfell was greedy people, under paid workers, and no checks or if there where, bad checks and a lack of any conscience for the people living in the block. a system is only as good as the installer and the BI or site manager. fast cheaper and quicker we all know dosn't make a good job. nice system by the way Roger.
It does seem that every problem that’s solved in the building trade leaves another bigger problem with something else that needs to be massively over engineered.
Hi Scott, thank you for sharing your query. The prefabricated units are designed with flexibility onsite in mind. The integral Stop Ends used in the Keyfix Non Combustible Cavity Tray System provide perp joint adjustability of ±3mm between 7-13mm if required. However if a particular project falls outside of this adjustability, such as different brickwork or perp joint dimensions, it is possible for Keyfix to spec Non-Combustible Cavity Trays to suit.
Or we could just stop building with this slow archaic brick nonsense and modernise and greatly speed up building with high tech designed prefab... Oh wait, then the big house builders wouldn't be able to trickle out supply and keep prices up.
All steel beams have to be covered in fire retardant. You can't blame a business for following the regs. Who would buy a house if it was twice the price of the one next door. And when the buyer asks why it is... Well sir we use stainless cavity tray instead on plastic. That isn't going to sell the house.
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As a bricklayer, this would make my life so much easier. Well done to whoever invented this product.
As a brickie I would love for these to become common practice. It could be useful for a video to show just how time consuming and awkward a traditional dpc tray is to install; and the possibilities of shortcuts which will be never seen yet undermine the whole endeavour.
Great point!
Cost factor involvement. Is the biggest cause for omitting
Is it me or is every video on skillbuilder an ad now? Got no problem with ad videos but this is too much.
So just skip the video. Simple.
Yes it is you but not everything on Skill Builder is for everyone. This video is for architects and big builders on high rise and bricklayers who will be putting these systems in. I am sure a lot of general builders will be interested from an academic point of view even if they are not the market.
As a bricklayer I would be more than happy to never put another bastard DPM tray in!
They don't even work anyway!
Watch this space, we have tested them
Grenfell highlighted building controls lack of checks and understanding, I've seen these kind of products used before in self builds and custom homes but never in production or larger sites. It's nice to see innovation but unless BC checks are more thorough and regulated or every build is filmed start to finish it's highly unlikely these products will actually be installed given the statement the other day by production building companies that "meeting higher epc ratings makes properties too expensive to sell".
It's not lack of checks, the for regs were doing their job.
Then a tragedy happened, and you look into them again.
Don't think another tragedy won't happen again, it will and then the investigation will find out why.
This is how all safety is done, you can't predict everything.
You got no chance most brickies can't read their first name let alone a schedule of parts 😂😂😂
On the big sites this job will be supervised and inspected. These are the lessons learned by the deaths of many people.
I won't be building 🏢 anytime soon but found the video really interesting from a construction pov. Well made video Skillbuilder team. 💯👍😁
Keystone have some clever ideas 👌🏼🧱👍🏽
Looks cool. But will the stainless tend to condense moisture to the underside in the cavity?
Hi Shawn, thank you for your query. Keyfix Non-combustible Cavity Trays are installed within the external skin of masonry and has no connection with the inner skin. With no connection between external and inner skin, there is no risk of a thermal bridge, therefore, there is no transfer of cold damp air to meet heat transferring from inner skin and as a result there is no risk of condensation forming on Stainless Steel Keyfix NCCT.
I can just tell that's going to cost a fortune. Couldn't find a cost on Internet.
Building a high rise is not cheap but as a machine for making money out of land it can't be beaten.
These should be available for normal domestic use, quality product.
No way is a client going to be paying for stainless steel cavity trays haha
This is high rise technology. If you are maximising the yield from a plot by putting 18 stories on it cavity trays are not the deal breaker.
No choice if the building is higher than 18m in England and 11m in Scotland.
@@garyfardon8841
That's the regs, but pretty much most apartment buildings below that are doing this.
Because they can't sell the apartment and the new owners won't be able to sell later on.
It's the banks, they won't mortgage a apartment that doesn't meet those for standard even if they don't come under the regs.
I wonder what the lead time is on the specials corners . Is it NHBC signed off ?
yes it is fully NHBC approved and the whole thing is made to measure
Skillbuilder videos are really going up in the world! 🙌😅
Ah I see what you did there
@@SkillBuilder Knew you would... RS-Dan told me you're a bright chap!! 👍😉
ive said for ages stainless steel is an underappreciated material period.
as a apprentice in the 70s ii was taught a cavity tray protected moisture from above not hitting the top of window, door frames, pre insulation in the cavity
It was explained.
@@SkillBuilder sorry roger what a naughty boy am i.
Hi, thank you for sharing your query. A Cavity Tray is required over all bridges or penetrations of the cavity within an external wall. The primary function is to capture moisture running down the internal surface of the external skin of masonry and also moisture dripping off wall ties within the nominal 50mm ‘clear cavity’. Once captured, the moisture must be restricted from travelling horizontally across the cavity to insulation within the cavity and expelled out of the cavity via Weep Vents.
Roger that looked to be engineered very well. When you were testing the weep holes of the cavity tray with the banding strap - it appeared it popped out underneath (10:07) the tray rather than on top - how did that happen?
Norman it comes out between the bottom and top. There are two layers there.
@@SkillBuilder Ahh OK thanks.🤔
Hi Norman, thank you for sharing your query. The Keyfix Non Combustible Cavity Tray System overlaps Ribbed End Corner Unit with Brick Trays. When banding strap is used to check that the secondary weep vents are clear, the Banding Strap is pushed between the space created in the overlap to ensure there is no mortar in this space and therefore facilitate efficient moisture drainage.
Interesting systems them would like just fixing a timber catnic lintel but multiples of them. As bricklayer would these systems would be lot bet than dpc trays.
Get product but have you seen snagging reports on YT about fake weep vents on new build. That is a more important issue to be addressed.
absolutely shocking
And I'd say a building control issue where inspectors aren't doing what they should. Refusing to sign off unless they see everything is what they should do but recent experience suggests not. When I asked "Did you see the steel beams installed? Are they siting on bearing plates or padstones?" And the reply was we rarely see the joist as the builder has already covered it up.
@@brianhewitt8618 take a shot everytime he says shocking..you'll be bladdered in 30 seconds
@@monday7150 Most channels now have comment protection on by default so if anyone posts a link the comment will automatically be removed. So a youtube search would just be easier.
@@monday7150 Look up New Home Quality Control
It is not good for profit of house builders, so it would eat their profit, no way they would use it
You missed the whole point. This is specifically for high rise buildings. It has nothing to do with low rise housing.
If every building is mandated to have fire protection, then every house sold is sold with those costs in mind.
It all gets passed onto the consumer.
We should be using hempcrete for fire barriers instead of metal.
This is because hempcrete does not conduct heat so if there is something flammable that has dropped on top of the hempcrete it will not set on fire.
But if we use stainless steel the stainless steel will heat up and ignite anything that is touching it.
Obviously
This is about cavtiy trays not fire barriers. The fire barrier , Rockwool wrapped in red polythene can be seen below the cavity tray. The cavity tray, as explained, is there to take moisture back to the outside of the structure. It is used above points that form a bridge, in this case that is the fire barrier but it could be anything.
Hi, thank you for sharing your query. In addition to Skill Builder’s response above, Keyfix have introduced a range of Non-Combustible Cavity Trays manufactured from Grade 304 (or Grade 316 if required) Stainless Steel in response to non-combustible components required in compliance to Building Regulations Document B. Stainless Steel is classed as an A1 fire-rated non-combustible and therefore does not contribute to growth or spread of fire as a result of flaming droplets.
I have a cousin who has been working on his aerospace / marine grade welding - this gives him yet more options, should that not work out.
To be sure 😂😂😂😂...I miss the days of the site Paddy's ..the channel tunnel was such a crack
I agree we had some great times but I could never keep up with them in the pub.
Where’s James?
Glenfell was greedy people, under paid workers, and no checks or if there where, bad checks and a lack of any conscience for the people living in the block. a system is only as good as the installer and the BI or site manager. fast cheaper and quicker we all know dosn't make a good job. nice system by the way Roger.
It does seem that every problem that’s solved in the building trade leaves another bigger problem with something else that needs to be massively over engineered.
Surprised lintel tray doesn’t have under pads each end ???
If you are talking about pad stones they are not required. This is face brickwork and the crush strength of the bricks is plenty good enough
what if brickwork requires opening or tightening of perps? guess they come as set measure?
That was explained, there is adjustment in the trays
But not in the stainless lintels? What’s there rough cost for say a 1200mm cg90/100 in comparison, 2/3 times the price I imagine?
Hi Scott, thank you for sharing your query. The prefabricated units are designed with flexibility onsite in mind. The integral Stop Ends used in the Keyfix Non Combustible Cavity Tray System provide perp joint adjustability of ±3mm between 7-13mm if required. However if a particular project falls outside of this adjustability, such as different brickwork or perp joint dimensions, it is possible for Keyfix to spec Non-Combustible Cavity Trays to suit.
Where's this school and what does it cost, lads? We are using this system outside East Croydon Station.
Cookstown Northern Ireland
Interesting and I’m not even a builder 👍
Not sure why I watched this, I’m a spark. 😂😂🇬🇧
You might have to earth bond them.
How do I get on with this non combustible timber then ......
High rise! not much structural timber in a tower block
High rise is usually 7 storeys +, timber frame only builds to four storeys.
Or we could just stop building with this slow archaic brick nonsense and modernise and greatly speed up building with high tech designed prefab... Oh wait, then the big house builders wouldn't be able to trickle out supply and keep prices up.
Thoughts on 9/11 molten steel
Amazing how non combustible metal is…it’s a shame big businesses have to be told what to do. When they just cheap out until people die.
All steel beams have to be covered in fire retardant.
You can't blame a business for following the regs.
Who would buy a house if it was twice the price of the one next door.
And when the buyer asks why it is... Well sir we use stainless cavity tray instead on plastic.
That isn't going to sell the house.
Should of known you didn’t do the brick work; the little girl hands on your man, lol
Those were the hands God gave me at birth. I have often thought they were the wrong ones and considered taking them to a second hand shop.
Oooo life is bliss in Lala land 🤪