'09 Jeep Grand Cherokee - Tach & Speedometer Cut Out
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 6 ก.ย. 2024
- In this video I have a look at a customers 2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee that has a customer complaint that the tachometer and speedometer cut out and drop to zero then turn right back on. It has a lot of "U" codes in it for an issue on the CAN B data bus. Let's have a look and see what we can figure out.
-Enjoy!
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I know it seems there is a lot of talking in this video but that is how the cookie crumbles with a lot of diags. First you have to duplicate the customers problem, learn and understand code set criteria and system operation, identify and locate system components, plan the work then work the plan. The majority of that time is spent in front of a screen to be honest. After that you carry out your tests and analyze the results either solving the problem or using that gathered data to come with another set of tests. It's boring to most but it the only efficient way to problem solve. Sure you could rip and tear and get lucky once in a while but I think this is a pretty solid approach. Hope it helps.
-Eric O.
Like I explained in the video the customer has had several different clusters in it and they all do the same thing. I think I also mentioned that the info the cluster is displaying is just bussed information plus I believe I also showed how I could see the data dropping in and out on the scan tool along with all of the communication codes. Sorry if I wasn't to clear on that. @@pkilam
Real world!!!!
Thanks Eric
fav kind of video, really.... is the new kid rebuilding engines yet?
@@pkilamwhy ask questions that eric spent the first 10 minutes of the video explaining. If the huge cardboard box overflowing with jeep clusters didnt get the point across. Cmon dude
Can you put some tape on your corroded thumb in the future? Some people eat while watching youtube videos. Thank you
The mirror image is because the CAN is a differential signal. Instead of the computer determining 1s and 0s from the voltage being a particular value, it looks at the *difference* in the voltages between the wires. That way, if something induces extra voltage in the line from RF interference-like an ignition pulse-it won't mess up the data because the same interference will be introduced to both wires. The absolute voltage on the wires may go up, but the difference between them will remain the same. That's also why the network wires are twisted: that way, the average distance from the noise source is the same for both wires, helping ensure that the noise adds the same voltage to both wires (instead of the more distant wire getting a little less induced voltage). Which is why maintaining the twist is important!
I was just about to say that.
Very true, the CAN buss is a balanced line driver circuit. The computer company that I worked for used those circuits back in the 1970s and were called “BDI” for balanced driver interface. Later replaced by Ethernet and later Fibre cable.
Yep, take the scope and hook one lead on the can hi and and ground lead on can low and that is the signal the ECU will be "seeing" cancelling out all interference
Eric great detective work. Enjoy your videos.
Great video Mr O
Quick question from the beginning trough 9:00 it seems like the image look like mirror but I see also like it has pull to ground?
That big red spike all way to the bottom.
Nothing boring about watching a craftsman at work Eric
I was the go-to guy for my family with car problems when I was young. Im now 77, and it just amazes me how damned complicated manufacturer's have made todays vehicles, and most of it is for features that were never really needed to actually make the vehicle function, like heated seats, etc. I guess thats how they justify the incredible price they charge for them. Eric amazes me with his patience when working on vehicles where the owner doesn't even clean the junk out of the vehicle before bringing it to him.
This is extremely similar to the situation I ran into with my 2006 Buick Lucerne; rear door locks stopped unlocking a couple days after I bought the car and I lived with it for a year before I started diagnosing it. (The way that the door lock system works on the Lucerne and the Cadillac DTS is that the front doors are controlled by the DDM and FPDM, but the rear doors are controlled directly by the BCM via relays and those relays live in the BEC underneath the rear seat.) channeling my inner Eric O, I started probing the relay socket to see which pin did what and found that the signal to fire the relay from the BCM was completely missing. So I traced the wire back to the connector in the BCM and found that the circuit was completely open. Now here is where I have to give the GM electrical engineers a Pat on the back: the BCM of the Lucerne and DTS has 7 connections coming into and out of it; 3 of those are for the harnesses from the instrument panel forward and the other 4 are for the body harnesses that run to the doors and the rear of the car. What they did was create a sub harness that took the 4 connectors coming out of the BCM and combined them into 2 30 pin flat connectors that interfaced with the body harness. What had happened is that the unlock pin on that sub harness had corroded in the same way as the gateway module in the video and the pin broke off but instead of being an intermittent connection, mine was completely open circuit. One trip to the local U-Pull-It for that sub harness and I had full functionality of my rear door locks restored!
One of the reasons I always like GM's there wirring always made sense to me and the sub harnesses are a joy because if there is an issue it's not like an Audi where you have to rip out the entire interior just to replace some wiring.
You a literally by far the best and most knowledgeable mechanic on TH-cam
Mr O You always make a nightmare look like child's play.
I'm always impressed.
Quite literally After Hours with Eric O! Looking forward to Part 2, you definitely went down all the rabbit holes with this one.
No rabbit holes in this one. Just logical approach.
@@SouthMainAutoI just meant the rabbit holes of pulling the fuses for every other module before going to the unit under the hood, you definitely eliminated all the other variables!
I think you did great. Bernie Thompson has a video made several years ago about Chrysler's different CAN circuits and how to test. It's over 3 hours long but well worth it. Good one Mr. O!
I'll have to go check that out. Thanks!
You are like the Sherlock Holmes of automotive electronics issues and problems. It is cool to watch you figure these things out.
This sucks , I was already set up for a classic Jeep ground problem . Then you go and find the green crusty’s. Thanks for the adventure !
"The problem is always the last place you look" This is because after you find the problem you quit looking for it. Great videos Eric.
As the “mechanic” that cares for my wife’s 2016 Dodge GC it never ceases to amaze what can go wrong with TIPM modules and the surrounding wires. Watching from Nova Scotia rust bowl of Canada.
Great work Eric O :)
Rust belt is Ontario lol
A real diagnostic technician is priceless! Can you move your business to my city? Thanks pal for all you do.
That wrench, you have to flip it over for metric.
I had a metric adj. wrench once & at the 11 setting, I could use it on a 7/16" nut! Really!!!
the lowly "crescent wrench" gets no respect on this channel. The adjustable spanner was invented in the early 1800's in Britain by the same engineer who invented the push lawnmower.
I always store it next to my metric hammer. Always annoying when I lose them.
Thanks for talking us through your analytical and detective skills and finding the problem, not many shops would do this on an older vehicle. I liked your de pinning of the connector and clean up, again not many would attempt this, well done.
Look forward to part 2, suspect Wilbur might be getting a visit.
You caught my "eye" when you said "they both have a delta of four volts". Don't think I've ever hear you use that term ("delta") before, and it brought a smile to my face. It's an uncommon yet useful term that I am fond of. Thank you, sir.
Sitting in a Buffalo snow storm at home. Bills game postponed till tomorrow and Mr O drops a vid. Thanks bud👍
Eric, as a former engineering tech and product line trouble shooter, I enjoy watching your vids. Between your experience and approach, you've got a real talent. I wonder if the intermittent nature of this problem subconsciously influenced your approach. Of coarse this is all hindsight. Great job Eric.
As much as i want to leave my work at work, I'm always thinking about cars I'm working on or future jobs. I see we are similar in that nature but your a legend my guy. Your teaching me more than 2 years of tech school could. Keep doing what your doing but only if it makes you happy.
Great diagnosis… keep breaking the system down. My question is, why does it seem that the last checked is the culprit. Keep up the good work, we are always eager to learn something from your videos.
Warming up after freezing from feeding the livestock. Miss summer. Glad for a South Main Auto vid!
Very often I have had jobs like this and I have left them alone until everyone else has gone home, the phone's stopped ringing, and with no customers about. You can then "think and analyse" in a much more productive way without any distractions. And exactly like you in this scenario, its usually the very last thing you check and test before you find the cause of the troubles, thanks to Mr Sod and his law's.
Looking forward to the next thrilling installment.
Many thanks
David in the UK.
Love your hunting down procedures for the fault .and you have learned something new to isolate the supply to the modules 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
The problem is discovered in the last thing you check, but sometimes, like in this one, it's about the last thing you had left to check. Always enjoy watching SMA videos!
Boring, never! Loved every minute of it. Great job as always.
That Jeep has more codes on it than a brand new Land Rover has coming down the assembly line .
😂
😂got some history codes I guess sitting at the dealer
Funny but probably true 😂
One thing about the CAN bus. It's like the old telephone party lines. Every module on the bus will both send, and receive, over that same pair of lines, and every other module listens in. So until you pull the plug on all of the modules you will continue to see activity. Every module likes to send out reports. So, when isolating the troublesome module, you're not looking for an end to the signals. You're looking for the one that no longer sends unbalanced signals.
Yes I'll be watching for part 2. I'm interested if that module is plug and play. I have a 10 Chrysler TC with the speedo completely inop and sometimes lost the whole cluster. That module actually had water dripping out of it. Ma Mopar ( or what's left of her) said the module was n/a. We use LKQ auto salvage here in IL, which is nation wide. According to them, the module is not plug and play, it needs to be programmed. Take that with a grain of salt. We've had really bad weather here, and I'm still waiting on the part.
There IS a lot of talking, yes, but this is classroom stuff not an action adventure movie. If I had a shop teacher like you in high school I would have been a mechanic instead of a carpenter. Thanks for sharing the knowledge Eric!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great stuff as usual. If Mrs O watches this video, I suspect your next sliver will be the most painful yet !!!
Hi Eric, don't sell yourself short, your diagnostic skills are top shelf!! Good job man!
Your diagnostic knowledge and patience are truly amazing. I am not a mechanic ( quite the contrary) but find it so interesting watching you solve the most intricate problems. You are truly appreciated.
I totally agree with 🫵 my friend!! 👍👍 I would be lost!
That crescent wrench was absolutely a metric wrench. You can tell by the orientation of the thumb screw.
I'm become addicted to your channel Eric!
I love the running commentary, great explanation of what you are thinking and doing (even when it leads you down the wrong path). Then rethinking and reapproaching the issue from a different angle.
Excellent strategy to figure out the culprit, on this weird problem. Will be waiting for Part 2 :-)
Do not be so apologetic about the process Eric. We are all here to see exactly how you end up at the fix. Sometimes you have to spend a lot of time just eliminating possibilities. I look forward to the resolution.
When it comes to electrical issues slow is the Way to go and the more you can learn about the system the better off you are.
Eric you have saved some people thousands of dollars I know it and so do you you’re worth every penny to become a member of your channel !!!
But you can rest, assured if I get one in the garage, that the tachometer and Speedo are doing that i’m going to get a hard look at them connectors.
Saves the customer money and me time. Thank you again.
Your loyal fan Billy G
You always right Eric uncle Berny is the head of mechanics teachers in this industry there is nobody’s like him .
I have been watching every single video that he have for a lot of years .
Are prayers for uncle Beny so we can have him for a lot of years to come .
Miss the vids Mr. O, will folks ever learn to test and not guess ? If it’s wonky and you’re just not sure, same yourself some time, money and frustration. Call the one and only Dr. O for the fix, please.
I try to put out several a week. That is about the best I can do and still live a semi-normal life haha
@@SouthMainAuto And we appreciate any and all…..have to have some normalcy in life
Just realized that your shop originally was/isprimarily a tire and alignment shop with repair being secondary. Because of your experience and expertise in repairs, you have been able to become a TH-cam channel. Note that I don't mean to diminish your talent but rather make it a sticking point.
I have come across only a handful of mechanics in my lifetime that really know their stuff and good humans and people to boot. You sir are top 2 on the list if not #1.
The point of all this is, there are mechanics out there that are as talented as you but not very personable in front of the camera. Just the way it is. We as your followers appreciate you everyday.
You bring the entire package to TH-cam and we cannot thank you enough.
Just to clear it up I have owned my shop since 2005 and it was never a tire alignment shop.... even before that it wasn't so I am not sure where you got your info
@@SouthMainAuto I assumed because of the 'original' name of your shop, which I can't remember. Infinite apologies on my part. I meant no disrespect. I hope you never hold it against me.
You don't go to school to learn. You go to school to learn how to learn. You have it down pat. You can use any source to get your answer. As long as you get the answer. I was taught to use the wiggle test first. Kinda hard to even find those plugs first. So the fuse method became my first method. You classify as a genius. Mainly because you know how to find answers in so many fields. Its your logic that makes you so good at what you do. Thank you for teaching.
“Conscientious” and “Thorough” are two (2) Words which Consistently come to mind while watching videos on your channel. Very Impressive. Thanks! 👍🙏
Might be boring for some, not for me i love these video's just as much as the others. Great diag Eric O!!!! learn something new everytime
Always an excellent diagnostic procedure.
Thank you so much for your input Eric very helpful and knowledgeable to watch you figure this stuff out. Your loyal viewer thank you so much
Hope you have a wonderful year happy new year
Eric, you've done it again! Great detective work! Also makes me glad I don't live in salty roads and high humidity country! Kudos from the high desert!
As a non pro diyer I can do a fair amount of mechical type fixes but electrical problems are not my fortay. The way you explain how to break down and follow each circuit is very clear and super helpful. Thank you.
Thanks for the informative video! Excellent troubleshooting. Yeah, let's place the gateway right next to the corrosive battery 😮
That TYPE of CAN bus is called by several names.
Low speed CAN.
FT (Fault tolerant) CAN.
Its the original version of "differential bus" CAN used in automotive applications and operates at about 10 times lower the speed for non critical systems. The voltage levels for that standard are derived from industrial RS485 specs.
Single wire mode is when one of the lines is completely disconnected and allows the network to stay alive 😁
Eric, Fine Job! I do my best work in the shop after hours also. No distractions. And This Video is exactly why SMA is one one my favorite channels. Like your banter. and your demenor. Thank you!
Having an 07 Jeep GC, I find this very useful!!
Glad to see all the searching and searching and lots more searching and ends up being the last one thing you would not ever thinking it would be enjoyable to watch all you do to get them rides rolling
Your skills are amazing - you should e-publish a handbook that chronicals your use of self-generated "logic trails" as those are priceless and better than any published guides that I am familiar with ... Best always to you and Mrs. O.
Yes he should write a book. I'm sure it would be required reading in Vo Tech schools all over the country.
Eric, between you and Ivan, you two are my go-to guys for diagnosing an issue.
Keep up the good work.
These diagnostic videos are definitely my favorite. Using the parts cannon method on this type of problem can get very expensive very quickly. That module will be pricey enough on its own. Great troubleshooting. When I was in US Navy electronics schools they called the parts cannon "Easter Egging" "Don't easter egg that boy, troubleshoot!
Superb powers of deduction Professor O. Accessing the CAN bus through the seat connector was a good trick to learn. Thanks for bringing us along. I will be on pins & needles for a part 2.
Well done my good man.
You “if I can do it, you can do it” but I don’t have the scan tool, pico (sp???) or experience (to understand all the different modules and codes) but I do love trying to solve problems like this! Appreciate you taking the time to video this and take us along for the journey.
That was fun to follow along! I was right up next to my screen trying to see whats happening. Love your electrical trouble shooting vlogs
I had a Ford WinStar 2000 model did the same thing for years dancing gauges More than a half 1,000,000 miles on it, drove that thing for a long time. It served many families.
Sweet diag! I always learn something from watching you fix cars. By the way all my crescent wrenches are SAE.
As noted elsewhere in the comments, the signal buss is "balanced" (two wires, same signal but inversely polarized) any noise that isn't equal and opposite can/will be rejected. Since you're seeing both polarity signals (the negative is dropping out but plainly still present) that strongly suggests that the electronics are still good, just the connector/connection needs to be jumped to re-establish signal continuity. Easy peasy... Possible fixes: hot knife the broken connector at the broken pin and expose enough wire/pin to solder a jumper to and jump to the female side wire... or open the module and replace the broken pin. Some signal impedance will be lost but no where near enough to compromise the circuit
Great work once again Eric. For any Automotive Engineers/Designers that might be watching, please note the difficulty you may be creating in where you locate components. Even the fuses are obscured. The connectors for the control units close to a highly corrosive source, like a battery is just bad design. As the video proves, just a single pin connection created a whole series of problems. I'll bet the corrosion started inside the unit, or at the edge and ate up the pin from inside. Looking forward to part "B"...
That comment about the crescent wrench is classic. Love your videos.
This was awesome. Love that it wasn't just a lucky first guess and that it required more processing to take the next step to find it.
So... Connections at seater heater were Can B+/ Gnd & CanB-/Gnd?
I bought a (4 channel) Pico scope, but haven't had a chance to use it. I upgraded to it after using a 2-channel scope with a cobbled together a pressure transducer setup to do cylinder pressure check to identify a plugged cat on a Jeep 3.7, Thanks to your videos!!!
Keep it up, Eric. At 58, and a shade tree mechanic all my life, I am amazed at how many things I have learned from you.
You have plenty of action videos, you're about repair not sports so this is a huge help for those that need this knowledge. Rock on, brother man!
I'm wondering if you will put any di-electric grease in those connectors to give them more of a fighting chance in the future.
Amazing job!! Please do a Part 2. Excellent job as always!!
I woulda never guessed Mrs O had a mean streak... Thx Eric.
This type of video is really interesting to me. I really enjoy seeing how you determine what your plan A and a plan B is going to be and then how you navigate that process to a conclusion. 👍
I love when you say "the big three seven". On another car you said "the big one five" and that gave me a chuckle.
Eric!! We NEED a part two! I love it when you go to Wilbert’s.
My old school brain said..bad/loose ground, cluster 8n that order.
New school me,always adds no-lox/bulb/dielectric grease to every wire I touch ....new or used.
Excellent job!
Great diagnose Eric and great idea connecting to the can in the seat module
Great case study. I like the way you methodically go through the process of elimination to come to the answer. You are right about Bernie Thompson. That guy is on another level when it comes to diagnosing and scope usage. I love his videos as well but a lot of it is over my head when it comes to interpreting what he sees on scope captures.
Another fine video you post, Mr. O. If you do part 2, I would be happy to know your customer likes your work.
I love to watch you do your diagnostic work and you are becoming an ad for DeioxiT ! Thank You for sharing your thought process and i wonder where the water in the back of that vehicle was coming from when you discovered it.
I was reckon your theory about outgassing of the battery is bang on.. Continuing acidic vapour combined with general moisture, salty air and voltages on those pins is a great recipe for corrosion and stray voltages. Poor layout design in the engine bay and poor sealing on those connectors - I wonder if there was a vapour line off that battery that wasnt connected?
I like the process of elimination approach to the modules. What a find.
A very helpful video for the DIYers & other mechanics too. Typical Stallantis vehicle find the cheapest way to put the wiring looms in as they obvisouly don't care after the thing has left the factory.
Excellent video and diagnosis Eric. I love these who done it movies.
So glad to have a video today. Thanks Eric. Having a bad day. I even cross threaded the cap on the milk bottle this morning.
I was taught that to learn something, you need to watch and listen to what's happening in order to get the knowledge needed . love watching your videos Eric. keep doing what your doing. I've learned a lot about diagnosing vehicles and I don't even work on cars for a living except what needs done with my ability on my own cars
I scored a metric flat head screwdriver at a flea market once. That was a great day.
Thank you for the xtra knowledge to us fans of your’s, worked as mechanic but the company would not help me todo Diagnostics school. Still tinker since retirement for friends vehicles as well as family.learning a lot about Diagnostics from the Videos you do,Thank You for sharing this with us in the real world as (now DIY-ers)
Eskimos were said to have 21 words for snow, New Yorkers have 5 types of ice scrapers in the back…
Don’t sell yourself short as “not a good teacher”, you are an excellent teacher and explainer, just not all trained and channeled. You make things understandable for the average Joe/Joanna and make it clear why things are done. Watching SMAC back to back with PHAD is always fun because of the different approaches you both take. Ivan is very regimented to track stuff down, and even when he has a hunch, he carefully validates the hunch five ways to Sunday before using it. You take a more nuanced approach with careful hunches applied to hopefully cut down the decision tress you have to follow. You both get the job done, and each approach has its pros and cons, but it’s great to see how things work out for both of you every time.
can't forget the brushes and mini snow shovels- especially needed around Buffalo/Lake Effects
Cant believe you assumed that pins identity...lol. Man, Eric O, you have MAD patience doing these kids of diags.
I am amazed and mesmerized by your thought process and what not. Thank you so much for taking us along!! Good to see you again, was starting to get worried!
as to the lot of talking i kinda like hearing your thought processes saves time and shows that you don't just focus on the supposed problem. you give every thought it's due diligence. keep right on doing it.
Saw part 2 first, still wanted to see this one. 👍
Nice job Mr O. Hoping to see PT 2
*What is a hub-and-spoke topology?
The hub and spoke topology is a network design where we have a central device (the hub) that is connected to multiple other devices (the spokes). This is a cost effective solution except the hub is a single point of failure. One example of where we can use a hub and spoke topology is in a frame-relay network*
Love these videos. Awesome work Eric. 😎😎😎😎
Always good to see how you solve problems.
That was some technical stuff with more acronyms than a government entity like the FAA. Good stuff to follow along with. If it wasn’t for talkies it wouldn’t work Mr O. Keep up what you do just like you always do. Looking forward to the repair part now. As always “ Thanks for posting yet another great video” !
Glad to see you working on this JGC, I'm currently looking for corroded connections on mine, same model 2006. My ECU has stopped sending an earth to the starter relay. Just taking out the ECU which is under the battery tray and is corroded as hell. Stupid stupid place to put it 😡.
Cheers Eric for another great vid.
Wonder if an AGM battery would have less outgassing?
If there is a good place or a bad place to choose from. Automotive engineers will always pick the bad spot. It's become part of the scam to make us return them to the dealership for service.
Thanks for the Bernie Thompson recommendation. What a goldmine!
How dare you make complicated auto repairs look so easy and then make it available for us all to see.
2024 where we are afraid of being cancelled because of using language we have used for decades. I worked for a shop for a few years but yours skills are above most grease monkeys I know now will I get banned for saying that instead of technician.
These are my favorite videos. Bernie is great I just wish he made more videos. Some of the problems he gets into is really weird and complicated.
This video hit different than regular SMA videos.