Jeep WJ: The Alignment
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ต.ค. 2018
- Now that all the parts from the Iron Rock Off Road Long Arm kit have been installed along with the new ball joints and tie rods it is time to get the WJ sitting straight. Let's see how good we did. -Enjoy
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I know this video is about 2 years old but I’m new to the channel. I’ve had 2 WJ’s. They are great but have their quarks. I’ve done all the conversions you have, just with different companies kits and have had multiple different heights of lifts. Started with 2” and went to 3.5” and then 6”. My second WJ I started with 4.5” and then jumped to 8”. 8” is the max if you still want to drive it on the road. I’ve noticed that you didn’t flip your drag link to the top of the knuckle. That makes a huge difference is the drivability of WJ’s. Helps with bumps steer and wondering A LOT! You can also flip the tie rod to the top of the knuckles to give you some more clearance of your axle. It’s a popular “upgrade” for just about any Jeep. Sometimes you have to trim some brackets to flip the tie rod. I found that any lift over 2” required to have the transfer case drop installed or you get a lot of driveline vibration. The CV’s or non U joints style couplers of the driveshafts don’t like lifts beyond 3”. Don’t know if this helps 2 years after the fact but I thought I’d throw it out there.
Jason Morgan. How did you flip the drag link to the top of the knuckle and did that stop the wj from wandering?
@@Countrywild where the drag link connects to the passenger side steering knuckle, flip that rod end so the goes down thru the knuckle hole instead of up thru it. You have to drill the hole out and get a taper bushing / adapter (most Jeep or off-road websites sell them). What that does is reduce the angle that the drag link. Helps it from all kinds of drivability issues. You can also flip the drag link over so the link ends go thru the top of the knuckles as well. This just adds clearance. There are a few companies that sell kits to do all this. It’s a high steer kit. They are more popular on the TJ’s and YJ’s.
Its amazing to see how far alignment machines have progressed over the years.....just like playing a video game .......it goes green when you get it right!
Even that things a dinosaur. I demoed a new hunter for a week, the heads are spring loaded and just grab right on the tire and no need to level, the machine adjusts instantly. Also you only have to roll back 1 inch and back, steer left to right fast as you want and boom its ready. Its practically cheating.
thats not a top of the line machine too, john bean's are in my experience the least preferred machines for alignment. hunter is where its at
@j bowers is your steering wheel a turned a quarter to either side and do you have excessive tire wear?
I’m preaching to the choir, but as you raise the ride height of the vehicle, you not only raise the center of gravity, you change the steering and handling geometry of the entire vehicle. The increased diameter and weight of the tires and wheels adds another variable, which together with the increased load on the wheels bearing and incorrect tire pressure can introduce looseness into the steering. The density or “give” in the various bushings can also add to the feel of looseness, particularly with heavier, bigger tires and the increased ride height. In short, and as you well know, every possible suspension adjustment can have a major effect on ride and steering, and all of it has to be double-checked. Great job so far and good luck in sorting all of this out.
Also the rim to tire width. the rims need to be wider to give the sidewall more stability.
@@inthenose5411 Thank you , when he said he was using the factory wheels with that size tire I knew he would have an issue with stability
People often overlook this, especially putting wheel spacers on. Then they wonder why bearings go bad quick. Great comment.
Congrats on your 200k achievement! Your one hell of a mechanic that has given me a completely different view when doing a diagnosis. Thanks for all of your dedication!
Happy you found and cured the problem with the defective ball joints! That WJ is way too nice to get rid of!
Awesome video Eric! You'll figure out the issues. I have faith in you. I'm slowly upgrading my WK and your new videos have been a ton of fun to watch. Keep up the good work and thanks for being an honest mechanic. Gives much needed faith to the community. I told my wife just the other day, " I wish Eric O lived down here, I'm sure I'm just looking over something stupid".
Fun to come along with you on this journey.
You'll figure it out! Awesome job!
Eric,
Great video - alignment machine looks really cool! I love when you are at your Dads/brothers shop - its a cool place. I know you will figure out whats going on and fix it.
SMA#1
God bless
Paul
It's nice to see Eric working on a passion project for once. Can't wait to see the video of you enjoying your new toy!
It looks so cool. Looks great!
Man!! The jeep looks great, as for the steering quality, that's going to be a work in progress, you'll get it so be patient.
Love these alignment videos great learning experience
I really love the suspension/alignment videos. There aren't a lot of good auto videos on alignment especially. I've heard you say before that you don't particularly enjoy doing alignments but like everything else automotive, you do a great job with the adjustments and the explanation. I've had several job interviews in the past where I was asked if I knew how to do alignments and I was a little embarrassed to say no. Just a suggestion on future video topics. keep up the great work and awesome videos!
You'll figure it out, Eric. One "ah-ha!" moment and you're there. Stick with it; hard part's done! (if you replace the inner axle seal at some point, please film it)
Jeep looks ready to ROCK & Roll Sweet 👍👍
Just discovered your You Tube channel this week and have been binge watching as have been a DYI mechanic for years. I live in WA state where we have almost no snow and little salt to deal with. I am shocked at the amount of rust and corrosion you have on the cars back there. My sister in law lives near Ithaca and was trying to help her buy a good used car via internet and phone this year was an almost impossible feat. Tried to get her to buy new as I know the rust issue is bad back there. Luckily found her a fairly new used car in her price range she actually liked and was pretty rust free. So mission accomplished. I sent her the video you made on that Subaru wagon that was junk. The one thing I would like to know not only the year of these vehicles you work on, but the mileage on them so it would give us who don't live in the rust belt some idea of the amount of rust and corrosion, in a time frame and mileage aspect. I just took possession of my dads 1991 F 150 PU 5.8 auto, with only 88,000 miles and still no rust. Back there it would have been in the junk yard 15 years ago. Love your videos as I believe what you say about people can do a lot of this stuff them selves. But as I get older I am beginning to pay others (with younger bodies) to do some of the harder repairs!
Me too😪
i wish a shop would do a in depth alignment on my wj like this
Right! lol all they do is Toe and charge you the same amount they would charge for an in-depth 4 wheel alignment...
Love the WJ video's!
I heard that you're giving this vehicle to Mrs. O. You're the best!
In the green always feels good - especially for the tire budget!
Thanks for the tutorial on the WJ. I just bought one myself and am in the process of chasing some bugs . Seeing the software reactions to your adjustments was helpful. I know have a better under standing. Also, I found one with the " Select Trac" system and like the 2WD vs AWD mode.
Aint nothin better than a good ol SMA double header on a Tuesday night!
Looks like you got that front end just about Wr-ight sir. Looking forward to some off road evaluation. Thanks Dr. O!
I like how your very persistent on getting stuff just right. Most would just send it and say , Well that's what u get with a lift and big wide tires. Thanks for coming in today Fella! Need to bring my 99 2500 with 40s on it to have u align it. Right! Lol
Beautiful Rig...I also have a lifted WJ. They are very nice if done correctly.
Wow! That stinks to have little hiccups, but like you found the issue before, you'll figure it out again. Sometimes it just takes walking away. .. then getting that "aha!" moment...
Or sometimes it takes one more beer! LOL
That's kind of a bummer that the modifications has taken you to this point. I bet by now you have figured it out and your just making us wait. :)
Maybe.... ;)
congrats on the 200 K !
Always a new learning curve when doing modifications like that. Hope you figured it out and sure you've contacted everyone you can think of to help with a solution. I remember I was cleaning the alloy wheels on my '99 LeSabre and there were a couple gobs of who knows what I cleaned out and they weren't all that big. But ironically on my way to getting a couple new tires I felt this crazy vibration at about 55 and could only think of those 2 gobs. Of course it couldn't be on the ones I was replacing so had all the wheels balanced and was fine. Didn't really think that little amount of what I cleaned off would affect the balance so much. Thanks for sharing.
Enjoyed the alignment, that's some high tech kit.
That’s old technology already buddy but a new rack is like 40,000.
Man, this thing looks badass even without the steel bumpers.
I grew up in my dad's frame/alignment shop, cleaning his 5 racks like that one was my job.
Great Video. I know you will figure it out because you figure out problems that other shops can’t.
Thanks for the video.
Ouch!!! I remember a few videos back you mentioned that this happened, I'm sure you will figure it out if you didn't already by now. You got this!
Great video!
Rule of thumb down south....if you want it to be nice on the highway, then no more than 4" of lift.
If you want to conquer the mud holes, and run 44" tires....then raise it to the sky with a body lift and six inch chassis lift. Put in on a trailer on the highway.
I really appreciated this video on the alignment, specs. On the vibration, I had to drop the transfer case 1 inch and that solve the problem. WJ’s have a week rear sway bar and unless you have a 2004 the front sway bar, it is also weak. These need to be replaced in order to stop the body roll, which is causing the steering issues.
What a sweet series! I loved it, I watched most of not all of the wj build. Im doing mine now. Awesome thanks! More wj please?
I really really like her! I’m jealous!! 👍🏼👍🏼
good video as always Mr O
You'll figure it out, looking forward to seeing you solve the mystery.
Great lift look with the tires..
Really nice video, thank you
I bet this is going to be one of those things that will be simple. You have done a lot to it after all. It all looks great it Will get there.
Congratulations in advance for the 200k subscribers!
Good video Eric O.
I fooled around with mine for quite a while and the thing that made the most improvement in handling was the 1 inch rear sway bar. The taller springs made body roll way worse and the sway bar fixed it.
You are right when you said tire pressure, lower your tire pressure to get a better Tire patch on the road!
Yep. He'll get a better center-feel as well.
Jeeps are awesome
It looks like your track bar and center tie rod are not parallel, but it’s hard to tell with that funky bend it has. My F250 had awful bump steer issues when I got it, because the PO had installed lift springs and the track bar and center tie rod were no longer parallel. Returning them to a parallel configuration (several methods available) eliminated the issue.
Can you please do an update video on your WJ? How you like it, how you have used it, how it handles on road for daily driving, etc. I bought one and am thinking about lifting it and would like to know how you like yours after lifting it.
Kevins off road track bar bushings are what you need. I have used JKS, Zone, and Iron Rock and none are as hard as Kevins. They stopped death wobble and made my old Wj ride on rails. MOOG SSD107 is the best steering stabilizer for WJ to band aid some of the steering issues they all seem to have once lifted. Some even go to dual Steering stabilizer.
try it without the wheel spacers . easiest thing first
My 1998 Grand Cherokee has factory installed U-joints in the front axle. No CV joints. So far I have only replaced the shock absorbers once. Everything else is still original in the suspension. Engine got a new water pump replaced once, plus new spark plugs, wires, belt and other routine tune-up items. I change transmission oil every 20k miles and engine oil every 5k. It still runs like new. I use Amsoil lubricants only.
I love "The Self Made Auto Channel" Best thing for a NY WJ is off road...No Salt=No Rust
You need more caster. The big lugs on the tires and the size and weight of them require more caster and toe in. Caster should be 7-8* rather than 4. It’s simply not enough.
Hey Eric, great WJ videos, I think cv conversion with the spacers are your issues. With those tires & dialing in ALL that geometry on a WJ mite be what's going on. Your a good man/ great mechanic.You keep me going on my lifted 2000 Grand. Thanks.
Heck Eric, my brand new Chevy 2500 HD was a mess after I bought it. Hit a bump in the road and I would be in another lane. Steering wheel would turn 5 inches either way before tires would move. After many visits and arguments with dealer, which after a couple of visits, then changed dealerships, it got fixed. Ended up they replaced gear in steering box. What a difference! The first dealer told me that Chevrolet wouldn't let them mess with front end till truck had a 1000 miles on it, I knew that was bull.
ty for this video i fixed my jeep grand and it works great
I enjoy all your videos, helps me understand a-lot of repairs that I do. Would like to see some Ford 6.2 repairs.
Moog makes adjustable upper and lower ball joints that will put you back properly aligned and steering, and wandering. You will need to drop the transfer case at least one inch, probably more. Lifted Jeeps have a tendency towards a type of 'bump steer' that involves the driveshaft dragging or hanging up in the transfer case. I bring that up when you get the new ones. In Jeeps the 'drag link' is usually called the 'track bar', and less commonly a 'panhard bar, I think it depends on where the guy you're talking to is from or got his training. Jeep toe is 1/16"-1/8". Your 0.1" (1/10")is within that range. Make sure that all your greasable fittings are greased, some manufacturers ship them dry. CV shafts are certainly smoother than U-Joints, they are older and tougher technology. Please remember that penetrating fluid is your friend. -just sayin'...
Hi Eric, I've seen this problem before and when you raised the body you have to count with the pitch angle difference between the steering box and knuckle, and also the angle of attachment from the tracking arm bracket to the axle. I hope it helps.
Keep with the videos, great stuff.
Even here in the south I used antiseize on tie rod ends a few times I sealed that split on adjusting sleeve to waterproof it.
I'm waiting for the day when Eric.O starts putting out his own versions of the Haynes manuals
I bet you are enjoying the crap out of that nice, clean, rust-free undercarriage.
Yeah right having a toy comes with a price,no matter what it is a drag car,or off road truck you always will have a itch drive it every day 🤣
HAHA!!!
The biggest things I've learned from Mr O is
1) how to do brakes
2) how to handle rusty parts
3) hug my southern vehicles
ive been a professional alignment man for years and im thinking you do need more caster for sure and a drop pitman arm to relieve the bump steer other than that excellent job sir and i very much enjoy your channel
Trying taking off the wheel spacers that should take care of the wondering worked really well for my jeep
He can't, it's part of the ujoint conversion.
@@TheNemosdaddy They're talking about the wheel spacers, not the bearing/hub spacer
I'm sure a video or two will come later when you finally figure out that ball joints problem that you mentioned on live stream!! :)
Jeep offeres a one degree offset upper ball joint which helps with caster split and camber adjustment.
I know you had this sorted in the end as you mentioned in WUW a few months ago but I won't spoil it for everyone else 😁
It's that goddamn bolt-on performance!
Eric, Put a snow plow on the front of this thing. Your in the right area for it.Besides, plowing snow is fun and profitable.
I bet it needs that drop pitman arm to make everything a little more parallel.
yep, it's off far enough to make it change big time with any suspension flex
Toe-in on a solid front axle with T style linkage should be as close to 0° total toe with the axle directly center in the frame . The wheels end up fighting each other if you have ANY toe what-so-ever or if the axle isn't centered. The bigger the tire, the more critical it is. I run 37s on a '02 Ram 2500 with 0° toe and adjustable track bar for a perfectly center axle. Rides straight as an arrow!
Eric, that is the down side from aftermarket modifications. On paper everything sound GREAT! until you put them on and a bunch of unknown pop up and more headaches you have. Sometimes one after market modification doesn't agree with another aftermarket modification, with out a mayor hands on mods and lots of time put on. When I do my modification for my rig need to be able to be daily driven if need it and be able to take highways anytime, because even if you are building a off road rig, in order to get to the site you will be wheeling you will have to drive on the road and highway unless you town or haul you rig until the off road site. Imagine if you want to go to the Moab and have a nice week of vacation with the family and enjoy the several trails that it offer, you will need to drive on highway to get there. So what ever you do, make sure it is pleasurable to drive and reliable. If that mean remove some mods and going with other options, let it be.
Figuring out the issues makes this fun and potentially very costly.
Believe me that Jeep will never drive down the road clean again. Been a Jeep guy for yr's,it's either you make a nice Street Ride or you go all out for an off road ride. Have many friends that have done just what you are doing only to find out they made a 60 mile an hour ride. You just created a life time worth of Parts Replacement. In my opinion the Jeep was in to good of shape to turn into an Off Road er. The Transfer Case should be changed to a 231 case with just part time 4 wheel drive for off road. That Jeep will for sure track to whatever slant is in the Road.
You will figure it out!
lol holy shit those bumpstop extensions are huuuuge
I got great at doing those Jeep algnments. Never had steering problem. I made sure about the horn ring I think Jeep has a click in it also... Can't recall everyone.
Sounds like it's steering just like a skateboard stiffen your roll bars up and see what it does maybe.
Great videos keep up the awesome work.
Good luck
I have no doubt that you will get it figured out.
Lets see that beauty on some dirt!
@ about 1:30, LOL, LOL, LOL...
"@ about three minutes down the road..." lol, LOL.
Been there, done that!
My truck did the same thing. After all the headaches I lowered the tire pressure and my problem went away. Hopefully your dilemma is that simple. Jim
You get her nailed down
Quick way of measuring caster without a machine is to place a magnetic angle finder on the factory indented circles on your front axle tubes near the diff. There's a chart online as to the values to go off of. The indented circles are 90° from the ball joints
Shove some GoPros under it and what the suspension when it’s acting up. Apples and oranges but I worked on a 65 mustang that did some of the same stuff. Darty on the road, bump steer, and loose feel. Found out the front coil springs were in a coil bind and would give a completely different ride height while driving than parked on the alignment rack. I put a ton of caster in the front and that helped mask it. Also went a little toe out but nothing made as much difference as the new coil springs. Again apples and oranges as vehicles go but the GoPro might reveal what you can’t see.
If i had to guess, I'd say it's the new tires. Put the originals back in and take for a ride. I had a car with the exact same wandering/pulling issues and chased it a while, thinking well it couldn't be these brand new tires. I had the frame checked and straightened, a new steering box (old one had a twisted steering shaft), and various front end parts. Nothing fixed it so it was a white knuckler to drive. Finally wore out those tires and put new BF Goodrich TA radials on it like my other car had and low and behold, the car drove great. Could not believe it but there it was, night and day. Near as I could tell, those other tires had a very stiff sidewall whereas the Goodrich did not.
least you went quality joints with the grease jerks = bravo
Eric, don't know when you are going to finish the Jeep WJ but I just watched your series. Your problem is the wheel spacers. For the best performance you wan't the centerline of the wheel to be as close to the centerline of the ball joints as possible, the further you get away from that the worse the steering and especially bump steer are going to get. This is widely known in the off road community. I'm very surprised "Iron Rock Off Road" did not explain this to you. No doubt those wheel spacers are your problem and eliminating those and going with a more positive offset wheel would just cause the same problem. In fact, going with a more negative offset rim is better because it will get your aforementioned centerlines closer together. That said, I realize you need clearance, so, you are going to have to modify your axles to accomodate for that but then that rig will ride like a dream on and off road. You have probably figured all this out by now but just my 2 cents. Your pitman arm and drag link geometry may be a contributor as well. I used to race motocross then quads professionally, that's where we learned these geometrical truths for 4 wheel vehicles, especially off road setups. Almost as educational in terms of suspension geometry are off road RC cars, I have several and these same principles hold true when setting up these little cars. Stray from those principles and you can see the difference night and day. However, it's just a little cheaper to play with all these setting on an RC car, Ha.
Watch allot of your vids, love it! Good luck with the Jeep and let us know where you're at with it. Warm weather is about upon us dude, so you better get that jeep ready to rock soon!
That jeep is f$$kn sexy bub..nice work..awsome videos.
I think it's your ball joints. Yeah,, definitely the ball joints. ;)
I have a Jeep XJ with 5-5.5" of lift. I changed my caster to make front pinion angle better, it became to twitchy with high 4, low 5 degree caster. Ended up putting caster to 6 degrees and it feels a lot better. I purposely do not run wheel spacers and hub spacers though. That extra bit of leverage I'm sure makes things a little bit more dramatic as well. Get your driveshafts from Adams out of Nevada. Assuming in non tv land you haven't already handled that.
I’m getting an alignment next week and hopefully it gets rid of my Jeep driving like shit. Little bit of death wobble and constantly chasing it back and forth going down the road. My setup is - 2 1/2” budget boost, JKS adjustable trac bar, Moog trail boss steering stabilizer, fat bobs extended sway bar links and it’s sitting on JK wheels with 255/75/17’s.
There is likely a mix of issues, causing your wandering issue! The new tires, for one, could cause a lot of it! The bigger tires, the wheel spacers, the fact that you used factory alignment specs, to align an after market raised suspension!
The factory steering was designed around stock tires, wheels and components. You changed all of that, plus added the much larger tires, and wheel spacers! That gives the bigger tires, more torque and bump steer. Like you stated, playing around with alignment specs, tire pressures, and letting the tire wear in a little more, might clear everything right up! Or, you may never accidentally trip over the right combination of things!! It's a gamble!
I have no doubt you'll observe, analyze and divine the roadability issue, grasshopper.