Its a shame this happened but honestly these two European foreigners should have NEVER been wandering around in the jungle alone in the first place. No way in hell would I allow my daughter and her friend go to a central or south american country alone without me or some other males I know could protect them. Latin American countries are fuckin dangerous in a million ways. I've been to Oaxaca mexico and was staying with a host family there house had concrete and barbedwire fence around it and I'm glad they did cause while I was there their neighbors son was kidnapped and they cut off his hand and sent it to the family demanding ransom money it was crazy. Even just walking the streets there was lots of people begging me for money missing limbs and shit from kidnappers. I know that's not what happened to these girls but central and south america are fuckin dangerous unless your on top of your shit at all times something bad will happen to you.
Ok, may I offer a few suggestions? To be clear, I'm not trying to be "that guy," who always has to find fault in everything someone does, because they lack artistic expression, but a few things I couldn't help bit notice were..... - You completely ignored about a dozen very significant details, central to the subject, for which you made this video. Details such as the inexplicable circumstances regarding the contents of the backpack. The details you ignored regarding the phone activity alone, make this video incomplete at best, & pointless at worst. Now, the worst omission, by far, was the fact that 1 SINGLE PICTURE, OUT OF 100, HAD BEEN DELETED, VIA COMPUTER, & just so happened to be the pic which was directly in between the day time shots, & the night shots, which was quite literally the EXACT SAME TIME THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED. - That said, the comments you made about the parents of these 2 poor girls, are verifiably false. Both parents strongly believe that their daughters were chosen, stalked, hunted, assaulted, & eventually murdered. This work is bush league, bro.
@@adambryan411 I agree with you 100%. I think something human happened to those girls, and they likely were able to get away for a while, but eventually whoever it was, knowing the terrain better, got to them. Maybe there were animals that helped to scatter their belongings, but that fact that SOMEONE tried to enter the wrong code into one of the phones tells you something. What is wierd though, is this: If I was the perpetrator, I would get rid of all that stuff, why leave it laying around the jungle to be found? Why save a few photos? This whole case is bizarre.
The Antichrist Right! Our niece went to Costa Rica alone. She’s 23 but we all tried to talk her out of but she is so stubborn. Then while there she went with some people she had just met in CR to another country. Fortunately she came back safe & sound.
I was a US Army Paratrooper stationed in Panama in the early 1980’s. Panama is no place for foreigners to be hiking, especially those with limited experience. The terrain is so dynamic that you can easily walk off a cliff, drown, or become a victim of predators, including the two legged ones.
Hunter Glass I did two short Tours in Panama,,92 to 93 (tearing apart this story, when broken down in segments), You know i I know, you do not get off the main trails, under no circumstances, Dec 93 Security, assigned as NCOIC, for medical team out of Fort Snelling Minnesota killed one of the largest Diamondback Timber Rattlers that I've ever seen in my life, 76" 15 buttons, stepped over hundreds of bofur bull frogs, as they were consuming 5in scorpions, One of the Peace Corps interpreters was struck by a fer-de-lance, a month prior, had to be Medevac out, I could go on for 30 minutes of stuff I've seen down there, those two girls did not wander off the trail. No way Shape or Form!
This one always gets me. The juxtaposition of their happy and adventurous photos against their desperate “using the camera flash as a light” photos freaks me out every time
I wonder if they went off trail to go after the dog. It made its way back home alone, but if the girls didn't realize it could do that they may have followed it into the jungle and gotten lost themselves while the dog could just follow its nose back home without them. Whatever happened, it is a tragic story and I can't imagine how frightening that jungle would be at night, especially when lost and injured.
@@carolsnook4659 Possibly, but dogs don't always behave the same way with people other than their owners. And even a normally obedient dog might chase after another animal.
I know....when I went out earlier I was paranoid of everything and everyone. Which is no way to be. I got to stop binge watching all these terrible murder mystery vids.
I've watched 7-8 of these tonight. I feel like I'm going to get murdered the next time I go walk my dog and everyone's going to assume I'm dead several months later when I'm actually very much alive but just living with my new space alien family on Jupiter.
I feel sooo bad seeing the 77 attempts on april 6th.... she musta INSTANTLY lost her mind when her friend died!! I cant even imagine what she was going thru at that point!! ALREADY in serious shit, then you dont just lose your best friend, you realize now your alllll alone out there!! That fear and sadness woulda killed me right there and then!!! Already on a very rundown, weak body... yup my heart woulda instantly gave out!! The deeper you look into this the more & more heartbreaking it is!!😿
Yes I wish that we where not reading, mystery murder into this case,it would of course be entirely possible to end up in a jungle area and die of natural causes and the elements,quite quickly without adequate clothing and a few provisions,not to mention fear and grief.
That's exactly what I was thinking however. The redhead with the injury was the one who had the phone with the working battery. If that was the case then why would she not remember her own pin. The pictures were taken at a time when there were many failed pin attempts, if I'm not mistaken.
You're right, I didn't think of that. Wished they left a note, memo or some pictures for their loved ones to have clarity of what went on. Something isn't right about their disappearance and death but we will probably never find out what truly happened. In the case of them having got lost a simple GPS tracker or even a compass would have made a huge difference, but like I said probably there was more to it.
lone damaged wolf no they were never in the forest in april 1 they were in the Caldera hot spring swimming with two local guys and there they were kidnapped by a local guide named feliciano gonzales and sold to sex and organ trafficing in colombia
This is so sad. I know when I was 21 I traveled exactly the same way they did... they didn't know the local emergency number, they didn't know anything about local dangers in general, they took risks that were unnecessary - I traveled exactly like that at that age. No idea what I was doing half the time. Now 10 years later I cringe at everything that could have gone wrong.
@@SDguy3030 we're women, mate. We have to look over our shoulder everytime we're on our own somewhere. We know the world aint rainbows and sunshine. Don't know what being white has to do with anything btw.
the pin attempts were from a third party. You dont need to enter a pin on someone else's phone to use it to call for help! There is an emergency call button you can hit when the phone is locked.
I doubt the emergancy number set in your phone changes when you enter a new country. If not then the emergancy button would be trying to call the wrong number.
@@luc1ferblack I know most major phone service carriers will reroute emergency calls to the local emergency number. For example if you dont know the emergency number where you are, calling one you do know will usually be automatically rerouted to the local one based on your location. I'm not sure if this was a thing when this happened but it is now and has been for awhile.
@Frischeparadies you play with fire you run the risk of getting burned. No way am I saying they deserved what happened but c'mon, they had no business being there at such a young age. They probably thought the world is all kind and fair. When their parents should've taught them otherwise.
I have an experience that explains how a lot of kids disappear. When l was fifteen, 1986, l found a trench dug out for powerlines. It was about two-feet-wide, for hundreds of yards. Kids don't think; l jumped in. I couldn't get out. It was at least eight- feet-deep----and as l tried to get out it began caving in...and l ran my ass off as it closed in trailing me. If l tripped and fell, just one time, l would be missing to this very day. I'd literally be buried alive.
My family lives in many places in Panama. I can definitely tell you, you CANNOT travel or hike there by yourself....especially when they know you’re American. It’s so many issues here. It’s a beautiful country but it’s not safe.
Interesting, are you referring to natural dangers or human dangers? I have heard that some of the jungle closer to the Colombian border is home to drug cartels, and they did in fact kidnap 2 British tourists before and hold them hostage.
Michael Burns doesn’t matter. Just from word of mouth, if you’re a person who is as they call it “from the states” or “a foreigner,” you can be a target. The country has very poor areas and the residents need things to live so if you have something valuable, they will try to take it by any means. This is in no way to scare anyone. You must be careful wherever you travel.
It's like swimming in shark infested waters, you're in their domain. A lot of these countries are not as progressive as the West. Gotta be real careful where you decide to venture...
So their shorts were removed. The backpack with all their items in perfect condition was hidden in another location away from their bodies and their remains were found scattered everywhere. And you think this was a hiking accident somehow?... 🤔
This is one of the most mysterious, disturbing cases in recent history (in my opinion). There are many, but this one particularly haunts me. Thank you for covering it. I greatly enjoy your program.
I don't know how mysterious this is. It seems like they got lost, died, and then their belongings and their bodies were found. That's not that uncommon, on the scale of wilderness disappearances.
Joshua Brooks If you look at the reports about the guide who offered them a tour they refused, who presumed to search their rented room the day after they vanished, he had many complaints of harassment from female customers, he would even hit on them in front of their boyfriends/husbands, and these complaints are from multiple unrelated parties, the guy comes across as shady and lecherous. And he just so happened to miraculously discover some of their possessions/remains when leagues of search parties found nothing for approximately two months...it’s an altogether appalling case, I pray for those girls and their parents that mourn them. RIP Kris & Lisanne ❤️🙏🏻🥀
I have listened to a lot of stuff like this, and none of the cases have creeped and freaked me out like this one does. It's the scariest story ever. It really bothers me. And it will never be solved.
At the time those photos were taken, Lisanne couldn't unlock Kris's phone. Also, by that time, Kris was probably dead already. So, the only thing that Lisanne could do with the phone was taking pictures. At least in mine phone is the only thing that i can use without unlock it.
Dehydration causes disorientation. If they behaved a little erratically or strangely, that's probably why. It's nearly impossible to think logically while you're dying of thirst. Coupled with a possible head injury, it's no wonder they did things that seem illogical in hindsight.
@@mylamename14 But they were presumed to be by the river which would have been, if not perhaps overly fresh, at least wasn't salt water. Unbless, of course, they were literally too injured to move to the riverbank.
I don't believe they made it past Day 3. It seems the rest that "activity" wasn't necessitated by them. The photo of the redhead could've been taken by their abductors. The back packs being found several weeks later, down stream were very questionable. They were in prestige shape, no water damage or showing any signs or evidence of mishandling. There found with both of the phones intact & not weathered from from the elements. In this case it's a tropical jungle trail head? If I were a monkey in that jungle...lol..I'd have messed around with those back packs! The condition of remains found were also in a strange state. An entire ankle & foot lodged inside one of the boots? The rest of the bones were picked clean by the elements.
Depends if you had a snake bite or something but you, otherwise it is possible to survive that part of the jungle,by not panicking,resting,relaxing, finding fruits to eat,finding a stream to drink from and making shelter,that's if you are not injured or being molested by a human,the rain forest they got lost in,has no panthers etc,but the girls had no experience whatsoever of jungles,so they would have been frightened I guess.
I had such high expectations for this, until you fell for the "hiking accident" theory. There's a lot more evidence that you left out, including tampering with their remains. What happened to the poor girls was *no* accident and the Panama authorities know it.
This girls come from my hometown Amersfoort. Today I saw a tv episode about Lisanne Vroon. What really moved me was that her parents an brother said that they are still glad that Lisanne went to Panama, that she did what she wanted to do. In the documentary her brother and a the guide, who alarmed the authorities, followed the same path as the girls did. Everywhere aside the path are warning signs that it can be very slippery. These signs were placed after the accident. So I think they didn’t wander of the trail but slides from the path, where one of the girls broke her foot. There is one mystery however. The original trail is to the top. Then you go back. The girls didn’t go back, they went on. But somehow I can understand that. Lisanne played volleyball on a heigh level, so her condition was ok. Then it’s easy to think “let’s go a little further”. All in all she had well spent time in Panama. So I understand the feelings of the family. They want to celebrate her life, not her death.
Daytona Says What?! I’m not so sure, between the instance of the uber suspicious tour guide who supposedly broke into the women’s room without police escort and the fact that their remains were scattered in a vast area as well as being bleached, it seems like there’s something more to this case.
I think you’re on the right track, Mike. A couple of thoughts: 1. They might have been using the flash during the night as a last ditch effort hoping searchers or anyone might see it. The Panamanian jungle is simply pitch-black at night, so any light would would be anomalous & pique curiosity. 2. It does look like they fashioned some crude flags to - again - try to signal for help. 3. As for leaving the trail? I don’t find that mysterious at all! Young women, excited to be in such an exotic place, intelligent & educated, staying with locals who had surely imparted some knowledge of the area - it probably just didn’t seem like a big deal to explore a bit. They wouldn’t be the first tourists to underestimate how far off they wandered, either, & not be able to find their way back. 4. Perhaps the friend of the wounded girl refused to leave her alone to seek help. They were already very lost at that point, no doubt scared out of their minds. Perhaps the wound was quite severe. Bleeding in the jungles of mid-to-S. America would immediately attract all kinds of bugs, creepy-crawlies, and, um . . . other creatures. Also, infection would/could set in immediately in such an environment. 5. Doubtful they had much food or water with them. It would have been highly risky to partake of any local flora or water, too. If they had eaten anything in the environment, it could have led to serious illness, perhaps even hallucinations. Starving people will, however, eat anything. Not to discount whatever microbes would be in the stream water, either. 6. In my opinion, one or both died of injuries combined with dehydration & exposure. What a terrible way to die! My heart breaks for their families/friends. We might be living in a modern age of amazing technology, science, & medicine - but none of that makes us immune to little errors that can quickly snowball into tragedy. We’re still just walking, talking bags of bone & protoplasm at the end of the day. I’m really impressed by your reporting, Mike (& I’m not easily impressed!) You look into stories on a deeper level & have more respect for facts than most on TH-cam with similar channels. I’m also pleased that you’re okay with leaving things as they are - meaning unsolved, incomplete. That’s how reality works much of the time, unfortunately. So THANK YOU for for this most excellent channel! I enjoy it very much. Now I just have to remember to ‘thumbs up’ every video I watch!
Sherry H. - What a well thought response to this situation. I could have written it myself. 😁 While so many here are claiming foul play, it is highly unlikely. There are usually logical explanations for the pieces we don't understand, but we may never know the answers. That doesn't immediately mean foul play was involved. Her shorts being neatly placed on a rock have been seen as evidence of foul play somehow, while she might have placed them there just before going for a swim or just before falling. Also, why would a rapist make sure to neatly fold a victim's shorts? 🙄 Anyway, just wanted to give you a shout out for your logical response. ❤🙂❤
@@VioletJoy so how do you explain a bone of one of the girls that appear to be bleached? Or what about the backpack, found later, but completely clean? Just 2 examples that to me scream something more happend than just an accident. These were two smart, young Dutch women who wouldn't go off the trail just because they can. They also had the dog of the Panama family with them. As you know, dogs are great at finding their way back home, so how come the dog got home, but they didn't?
@@svw3734 How do those two examples "scream" that more was at play here? The "bleaching" of the bones has been explained due to the natural environment of the area. Also, it's extremely unlikely for a killer to drag along enough bleach out in the wilderness to use on two bodies. And for what reason? How would the bones be accessed in the first place? The backpack is definitely a mystery as to how it was in pristine condition, but that doesn't automatically point toward foul play. I'm not sure how it would be seen as foul play. Would the perpetrator take the backpack home and then bring it back later? This is where we use logic and reasoning to think through these situations. We weren't there, but there might have been a logical explanation.
@@VioletJoy Maybe the woman found it in a different place a while back, not knowing that it belonged to the girls? And after hearing the news, she decided to turn it in? And she lied about the time and place because she didn't have an explanation for keeping it that long.
I just discovered your channel a few days ago. And I can't stop watching!!! I'm up all hours of the night with my newborn and you keep me entertained. Absolutely my new favorite. Love your humor, in-depth research and how you present these stories. You should have your own show on HBO or something.
I remember this case when it happened, everyone was all over it because of the photos. But I saw in a video where they interview the family they were staying with and they said that they warned them that locals don't go in those woods because they are not in fact easy to trail there.
People DON'T dissappear. People get murdered, abducted, fall off mountains, accidently drown, get lost, held against their will,,, but they do NOT disappear
@@kait2972..... What in the hell is this in regard to....? My comment that people, in fact NOTHING dissappears in thin air??? No, to answer your question, if "things" or situations don't exist, then, to me, they don't exist. But still confused to your question.... 🙄
@@kait2972..... Dissappears means dissappears hun.... I know what the definition is. And their bodies were found.... Soooo, they didn't "dissappear". However, in a way did cease to exist anymore. Lol sorry, had to put that in. My comment was in regards to his comment on people disappearing.... People don't disappear. The girls got lost, for reasons unknown. And their bodies "reappeared" dead. They went missing, got lost, but didn't "disappear. " and people go missing, get snatched up, get lost, but they don't "disappear". They may not be located, but they're not shadows.... You reply was very confusing,,,
@@kristinajakakas9068 They disappeared and then later their backpacks appeared. Shortly afterwards their bones were found. Is this really such a tricky notion for you?
I visited the area around Bocas del Toro in 2006; it is rough, steep country and you can exhaust yourself going up and down the hills. The jungle is thick and just a short walk away will have you totally concealed.Because movement in the jungle is such a pain in the ass, there's usually no reason for locals to go wandering, so you could be next to a road or small village and it is likely you won't come across anyone. The weird things are the neatly folded clothes and backpack in good condition.
Yeah this is so tragic yet clouded in mystery. Im with you it could have been a very unfortunate incident, they strayed from the path probably to go exploring deeper in the jungle, than got lost realized it was about to get dark, tried to track their way back when one of them fell unable to continue leaving the other girl to go find help. It seemed like they had a bit of experience leaving markers with their clothes to pin their location, its just sad that couldn't find help in time.
They were murdered,even if one had an accident and died and the other starved to death wouldnt they leave a last will and Testament on one of their recording devices.they had a camera and 2 phones,prob all three would record video.Thats my theory,I prob would record something for my loved ones.
I was just talking to my flatmate this morning regarding this case. I even have a screenshot of one of the girls in the forest . This story disturbed me more than other missing persons. Don’t know why. Thank you very much, most informative.
"They went of the trail for some reason..." well actually, people do shit like that ALL the time lol it's not that crazy... people think that they know better and nothing bad will happen to them, so they go off trail or go hiking alone, and something terrible follows.. happens alllll the time. Not that crazy or fishy... just bad judgement
I noticed the many.. many of your stories on disappearances an murders happen in April.. just thought I’d throw that out there . Keep up the great job , love the channel 👏
You looked out the largest piece of evidence in the case. The driver or the resort worker(I can't remember how his occupation) that was accused of following them up the trail and their bodies were not found far from his property.
This case always seems like there's something missing. The conclusions reach make sense...but...there's a nagging doubt about things. Excluding the 911 calls, it reminds me of a Missing 411 case. How could the back pack be such good shape after that much time? I know they are rugged...but over 2 months in water/water currents? The folded clothes on a rock? Why do that? Taking photos with flash was definitely trying to tell people something. If she needed to see, she could have used the phone's flashlight.
I don't think they were taking pictures to see. Of the 90 pictures, all were black and nothing could be seen except for a few, and all were taken on only one night in the span of a few hours. The pics were strangely taken at an average of 2 minute intervals. Even more chilling is missing deleted picture 509, the only picture between the day and night photos. If they were trying to tell what happened, she could've filmed herself and say her goodbyes but Lisanne was never seen and no pictures or video were taken during the day.
I have not long found this channel and it didn’t take me long to get addicted.😍❤️ I love your content and your Irish accent.❤️😍 For me I’m not happy unless I have my daily dose of Mike.💚😍
It sounds like some of the random photos are stages 'bread crumbs' that they photographed to remember. Kind of like Hansel & Gretel.. they probably weren't sure if they were going the right way and wanted to find their way back to the original spot. The photos after seem odd. The head injury picture might have been after a fall to see how bad it was. After a bad fall it would be hard for them to stand still and get a clear picture
What don't understand is...why didn't they shoot s video? I mean if the photos were meant to tell us something, then why wouldn't they shoot a video? Questions would have been answered if they filmed "oh we fell, she's dead and I broke my legs. And we have no signal. Love you Mom and Dad". The fact that there is no video is the strangest part. Makes me think there is something else to it.
Yes agree there should have been a last message, considering Lisanne (and likely Kris) had well-filled diaries and Lisanne was in daily contact with her parents/family. But even before we get to the supposed last days, the photos on the first day itself are highly suspicious. After a 2-3 hour hike up, it seems that these young ladies rushed at super-speed to take a series of photos and spent probably no more than 20-25 minutes at the Mirador (the divide). 5 of these photos were taken within ONE minute....different poses and variation in locations. Lisanne even had her hair tied in some of these photos while she let them loose in others. One photo of Lisanne looks strange with her left shoulder appearing extra long and her left breast also disproportionately larger than the other. Another photo of Kris shows a strange break in a few lines on her shirt. The last photos where they supposedly ventured beyond the Mirador point to some unusual camera activity, as only Kris had her photos taken whereas in ALL previous locations, you would find both in the photos or at least solo photos of both. If they were still in happy mood at the time of photos 507-508, why wouldn't there also be a photo of the two of them by the stream...
I remember hearing about this. It was concluded or assumed that one fell and was injured. The other just stuck around trying to call for help. The pictures are of one trying to take pictures of her friends body in the river. Eventually she succumbed to dehydration and or hunger. Sure they both just graduated college. But were they experienced in outdoor survival? Sad unfortunate
Other youtube videos talk about a deleted photo from the camera that can't be retrieved. Photo number 509 that was between the last daytime photos and the night photos taken days later. It couldn't be retrieved because it looked like someone downloaded that photo from the camera to another computer. Also looking at the daytime photos you see a change in the mood and terrain. At first the photos show both girls on the high ground and looking happy. Then it changes to showing them on low ground going deeper into the jungle and only one of the girls is in the pictures and she doesn't look happy. The first cellphone call was made only a couple of hours after the last day photo 508 was taken. They ran into a third party out there and may have got a picture of them (missing 509) and managed to get away. Unfortunately they were totally lost and grouped out the jungle for next next few days being chased and were caught again and killed. Those 77 attempts to get into the iphone were made by the third party, probably looking to see if it had any photos in it. I believe the night photos were taken to make it look like the girls got lost and one of them was hurt in a fall. The girls were long dead by then. The backpack was found in an area that was 12 hours away from where the girls were hiking. The backpack and its contends were dry and the camera and phones were in working order. Someone held on to them and then placed them in a spot to be found two months later because there is no way they would be in good condition after sitting in a jungle during the rainy season all this time. Plus the backpack and the girls remains were found upstream. They were murdered and the incompetent and crooked government declared that they got lost and died by accident so the tourist would keep on coming.
you're not quite right there. Kris had an accident approximately morning of April 6 and severely injured herself, probably making herself unconsious. This prompet Lisanne to use Kris's iphone from then on, because her Samsung had run out of battery. However, she did not know the Pin. It is a natural reaction to try and call for help immediately after an accident. So Kris fell morning of April 6. Lisanne stayed with injured Kris the next few days, because she did not want to leave her friend dying. By April 7 Lisanne had become so desperate, that she tried 77 more attempts to receive a signal, not entering a Pin of course. The night of April 8 the first terrential rains started and Lisanne basically knew she was going to die as well. In order to record her last hours, she frantically took pictures of their resting place, including injured (and possibly already dead) Kris. Some time after April 11 their stalkers caught up with them and eliminated both of them, since Lisanne was by then extremely vulnerable. The killers took the camera and deleted the picture, in which they were seen on, on their pc somewhere in the area (possibly Romero Alta). After succesfully decomposing the bodies they placed the girls belongings back on the riverbed to make it look like an accident. And there we have it. The complete story.
The only problem with your theory is that you assume the girls were together the whole time. We simply don't have enough information to assume they remained together. Based on the phone records We see both their phones were used for signal checks from the 1st to the 3rd at about the same times. That means the both phones were together but doesn't confirm that both girls were together. After the first few daytime pictures we don't see any pictures of Lisanne. If Lisanne was taking those night photos why only one picture of what may be Kris' head but she never took a picture of herself or more of Kris has part of a record of their last hours. Lisanne phone shows two signal checks on the 3rd then nothing until the 5th. Now that could mean that the girls were together and Lisanne's phone battery was dead and keep on going or that Lisanne may have suffered a fatal injury and Kris had to keep going and the third party found Lisanne on the 5th and turned her phone on to check it at that time or Kris was able to get away but Lisanne wasn't and Kris was able to take Lisanne's phone and camera but discarded Lisanne's phone on the 3rd when the battery was almost dead and the the party managed to find it on the 5th. Kris pressed on until the 7th when either injury or exhaustion or death stopped her and the third party found her in the same spot that all those night pictures were taken.
Yes why not destroy both phones the camera the clothes passport money and the backpack itself? Kind of like the killer/s knew the government would rule it was an accident. Also they may have hacked into the i-phone and deleted photos.
Always particularly sad when such things happen to young people with their lives before them. I hope they didn't suffer too much. Really enjoying your channel, so thanks.
In an unfamiliar locale it's easy to get caught up in the beauty + explore. Darkness falls + even the familiar looks so different . Dehydration , disorientation , panic sets in . Wonder if they told anyone when they'd be back . A tragic lesson : a first aid kit , a compass , a canteen + energy bars etc could've been the difference between life + death. Don't be over reliant on a cell phone.....
20th century man wow that’s true. Recently two little girls survive in the forest way longer and they only had small training. One should always be prepared
I've watched so many of your videos but somehow this is the one that got me worse than any others. The thought of these two women being lost in a foreign forest and desperately trying to call for help for days is more chilling than many of the murder cases you've discussed
Once seeing this case here on Mike's channel, i became obsessed with this case devouring tens of not, close to 100 hours of research and imho, i think that the mystery regarding the backpack and the actual cause for the girls demise are two entirely separate incidences and are really connected nor related. I think it was either dropped accidentally or intentionally by the last girl to die. If it was the former, it was either running away from some preceived immediate danger such as a 4 legged predator (even worse, a 2 legged predator) with nefarious intentions towards her survival. The second possible reason is that she dropped accidentally and no way to safely retrieve it. Now if she intentionally abandoned it, she was trying to leave clues for the parties that would inevitably come searching for them although common sense would dictate that you leave one clue at a time instead of the whole kitnkaboodle making the backpack et al. The ominous reason for that would be that she was either in the midst of foul play or had reason enough to be anticipating its immenant arrival OR what seemsplausible to me, she had deteriorated to the point that she no longer had the strenght to carry it. What i think occurred next is that a local came across the backpack and took it cos let's face it, who wouldn't take a brand new backpack they found in the middle of a jungle filled with things that someone above mentioned was worth more than what most of them earn in a year, even if it was only to try and find the original owners and return it. Upon realizing what was going on and who this backpack belonged to or the implications that it represented which made it impossible to profit from the items since it would make them suspect #1, they stayed low and then placed it where they knew it would be found with ease hence it's perfect condition. No body wants the authorities in their business which isbecome POI #1 which is objectionable for obvious reasons and it could also impact their operations if they were involved with some sort of illegal activities in that area. Now, exactly what killed these two young girls? Obviously i don't know but I'd be putting my 💰 on them succumbing to their environment after a series of mishaps but readily agree that the chances for that not being the case is very much present for there are a few things that bother me about this case.
Oh, You forgot to mention about deleted camera image 509 on Lisannes camera. It is the picture between the last day time image to the strange 100 odd photos. Some people believe the girls took a picture of a 3rd party and whoever this person was deleted the photo.
That makes no sense. Why wouldn’t the killer just destroy the cameras outright? Or just wipe the memory clean and sell them for a small fortune? Why leave the passport and $83? Everything in that pack is likely worth a year’s salary for that area. A much more likely explanation is that the police were incompetent and accidentally erased that image.
@@ericp1139 We don't know what a third party's motive would be but if it was sexual and the girls got raped and murdered. If course money wouldn't be taken. Read this: playacommunity.com/panama-articles/panama-national-news/6782-fbi-investigates-possible-serial-murders.html
@@tysiiiiiiiiiiii Once seeing this here on Mike's channel, i became obsessed with this case devouring tens of not, close to 100 hours of research and imho, i think that the mystery regarding the backpack and the actual cause for the girls demise are two entirely separate incidences and are not related. I think it was either dropped accidentally or intentionally by the last girl to die. If it was the former, it was either running away from some preceived immediate danger such as a 4 legged predator (even worse, a 2 legged predator) with nefarious intentions towards her survival. The second possible reason is that she dropped accidentally and no way to safely retrieve it. Now if she intentionally abandoned it, she was trying to leave clues for the parties that would inevitably come searching for them although common sense would dictate that you leave one clue at a time instead of the whole kitnkaboodle making the backpack et al. The ominous reason for that would be that she was either in the midst of foul play or had reason enough to be anticipating its immenant arrival OR what seemsplausible to me, she had deteriorated to the point that she no longer had the strenght to carry it. What i think occurred next is that a local came across the backpack and took it cos let's face it, who wouldn't take a brand new backpack they found in the middle of a jungle filled with things that someone above mentioned was worth more than what most of them earn in a year, even if it was only to try and find the original owners and return it. Upon realizing what was going on and who this backpack belonged to or the implications that it represented which made it impossible to profit from the items since it would make them suspect #1, they stayed low and then placed it where they knew it would be found with ease hence it's perfect condition. No body wants the authorities in their business which isbecome POI #1 which is objectionable for obvious reasons and it could also impact their operations if they were involved with some sort of illegal activities in that area. Now, exactly what killed these two young girls? Obviously i don't know but I'd be putting my 💰 on them succumbing to their environment after a series of mishaps but readily agree that the chances for that not being the case is very much present for there are a few things that bother me about this case.
'some people believed the girls took a picture of 3rd party blah blah' - some people who are just making stuff up? Intriguing case, but let's stick to the evidence. You fuckwit.
I always thought that the dog went after something and the girl's followed. From there they were lost and the dog headed back home. Bad things happened from there.
It was the tour guide! The ol’ fella called Gonzales. There are loads of reviews online of him being a creep, he knew the area n inserted himself into the search/investigation.
@@damagecontrol7 Here in Australia if your network doesn't have coverage and you want to call 000 (emergency services here) it will connect you through, your call will be carried on another provider/ mobile network. Think it's the same in a lot of places in the world, some phones even without a SIM can still call emergency numbers.
Does anyone else have that dream where your life is in imminent danger and you keep trying to call emergency services but the call just doesn't go through??
The Dutch as a people always seem happy, open and very congenial and I think they see the rest of the world the same way, unfortunately this is not always the case.
Enjoyed your video!!! Could you boost the volume in the future? Even with my speakers on 100%, it's difficult to hear. That would be awesome, since I intend to watch more. :)
Also keep in mind much of this happened at the beginning of the rainy season in Panama. I happened to be there that year at that time in Panama! If it starts to downpour they could've easily been disoriented even from the trail.
A little anecdote; I was in Peru and I had lost my flashlight. I was hiking the trail from the base at Aguacaliente to get to the entrance at Macchu Picchu. I had started just before dawn, but didn’t realize how dark it’d be nestled in the Andes. I was using flash photography on my camera and phone to navigate, then I ran into a friendly Aussie guy with a torch-beanie-thing he fashioned, whom I joined until we reached the gate. I related to their random night photos immediately as I remembered all the deleting I had to do afterwards (about 100 or so random night shots in dense woods). I think these gals were the victims of foul play, but then escaped temporarily in the darkness, navigating with their camera-flashes and calling for help with what little battery they had left. I fear that they were probably apprehended thereafter a final time.
It's not right is it. One could take photos of her surroundings to try and 'share what happened' as the story goes, but not a single selfie as if to say , this is the state I'm in this is what happened. I don't think the girls took those photos at all.
Why take pics.. Why not simply make a Video & record your voice about as to what really happened? This is a case of Pure foul play, how were the shorts neatly folded on a rock.. Why was the bag found in a rice paddy when the fact that the farmer women confirmed that it was not there a day before !
SS if i were lost, i know id have to tell my family what happened and i love them. Even with my last 2% battery. By then u know the phone aint saving u anyway. That and the deleted pics make me feel icky abt it too. Maybe someone (even a passerby accidentally) spooked them off their path, where they got lost and hurt that way, but the person found their items later and meddled with them for some reason. Who knows, really.
Video takes an enormous amount of battery. If you were down to 5% making a video would essentially wipe it out. They were still holding out hope of rescue by their cell phone location.
@@InTheBleakMidwinter666 Okay, do you or do you not believe that it's bigfoot? Also, do you believe there's some conspiracy afoot? Every time I see a "ooh it's like the missing 411 cases" comment, they never actually say what they think. Do you think it's supernatural? Do you think there's a chance that maybe, the wilderness can be dangerous and there are many ways to get lost or die or fall victim to a host of accidental deaths?
The taxi driver was executed ( drowned ) because he lied to the police. He said he rided K and L to the trailhead on April 1 but in reality he did not. He was paid by the murderer to create a story because the murderer wanted to put the focus of investigations at the Pianista. The taxi driver had never ride the girls on April 1. ( my theory )
In April of 2008 I hiked the trail up to the top of volcan Baru in the middle of the night by myself to watch the sunrise at the summit. I started at about 930/ 10pm and sunrise was around 6 am if I recall correctly. One thing that struck me while doing that hike was towards the end of the hike - near the summit - there is a scrambling section with some really steep drops on either side - some sections the ground is quite unstable as it is all loose dirt and loose stone. I remember thinking if I fell or slipped on this section I was for sure a goner. It was a bit freaky on that trail at night alone.
I hate to think these girls got lost then finally found someone they thought would help, but took advantage of knowing that the girls were already known to be lost in the jungle, but it does seem possible
Ever hear of the little movie "I know my first name is steven"? Was a huge kidnapping case. Wound up the kid broke free many years later to save a new victim who was kidnapped by his tormentor. The first kid, who wound up the hero to the second, his name was Steven and he became quite famous as I said they made a film of his ordeal. Sadly he died in a auto wreck but what's insane is he had a brother who became a serial killer too. You could do stories about him or his killer brother or both in the same video ! (Assuming you havent already but I havent seen it if he has would someone share a link?)
As someone who has actually lived in South America, you are correct. Forget what the others say - wherever there is poverty and opportunity, lies danger.
This case chills me to the core.. just try and imagine the horror they went through...Lost, scared, thirsty and starving...the only life line (as well the only form of light they had to try and find a way out) is a cell phone... A cell phone who's battery is quickly draining...these poor girls did not deserve to suffer this way, and you know they suffered both physically and mentally. I mean I can't even bare to even try and put my self in they're shoes.. May the both Rest in peace.
Ryan Vandeput There is absolutely no reason to suggest they met foul play. Why else would they still be using their camera and cellphones? Surely if they got captured they would be taken away.
@@FabiJenneke because they knew they were worth for nothing. Only to show that they died, and so the search would end. And that is exactly what happened. The information found, the phones, camera, aren´t worth for nothing but for the most valid theory that is they died by accident. Exactly what a murderer would want.
That area is notorious for kidnappings. Two white girls is like a neon sign saying "kidnap us". They were seen talking to a guy trying to get them to use his services as a guide, this guy was a known creep.
They were murdered. Nothing fits in this case. They never went far upstream, because the nightphoto with the 2 red plastic bags was made on the river with the bridge near the mirador. That means that the bones, the jeans and the bag must have floated UPSTREAM which is impossible. Then the bag was found 2 weeks later on a sandbank near the river. It must have floated upstream again and while being in the water, the camera and the mobile phone would have been destroyed. Furthermore the sunglasses are different from the ones the girls had. The girls were quite risk averse, because they started the same hike one day ago and stopped it due to nightfall - they knew where they were going. Then within 2 months the bodies do not disintegrate that much. Without external force this is totally impossible, even in the jungle. One bone of kris was bleached and saturated with phosphor. The last photo before the nightphotos began, was deleted by computer and therefore not restorable. There were fingerprints found on the camera, but never evaluated !! Then they were girls with smartphones. No fotos, no messages, nothing for days they shall have been alife ? This whole story is so full of things that don´t fit together that i think they were kidnapped and killed. They were killed and all the "proofs" were made later to distract and let it look as if they just lost their way and got eaten by animals. What is even more frightening for me is that obviously the government of Panama seems to know more and hides it. Especially since the murder of Catherine Johannet in 2017 and the following investigation by FBI this became very clear. I can just advice people not to go to latin and south america. Those countries are very dangerous and one human life doesn´t count anything there. Search on the internet and you will find out that robberies and even murders of tourists take place everywhere there from Guatemala down to Argentina.
Well, I live in Uruguay and these things don´t happen. Thumbs up, though, because I agree with you, they were murdered. Bocas del Toro is very dangerous, I have read a lot about that place, robbery and rape, and the police doesn´t do much, unless you really move it and don´t shut up.
U say they had hiked the same trail the day before. I thought they had just gotten there. They had been in the country but just arrived in that area that day. They were scheduled to meet a guid the next day. I’m kinda torn between them getting lost or getting murdered. The fact that they were a good distance from the trail head where they started out. To where their ‘parts’ were found. It’s hard enough to hike thru the jungle on a trail but to go off-trail (because they think it’s a short cut) is just F’ing crazy! If that’s the case then they are really lucky anything was found! If they were killed by someone why on earth would they pack everything nice and neat, place phones in plastic bags and send it down stream hoping someone will find it. The logical point of that is that it was the girls who sent the pack because murderers don’t usually want to give anything up! To be honest none off this story makes any since. I mean this rescue crews were out there for days while they were still alive. *another reason why even when lost u never leave the trail!
@@chrisemerson7743 The fact that the bag with their things was found, is because they wanted the family and authorities to know they were dead, so that they stop looking for them. The bag was conviniently prepared with what they wanted so as to show it as an accident, but for sure to show they are dead.
You skipped entirety over photo #509, which falls exactly between the day time and night time photos and was deleted from the phone. And not via the phone, but by some other means. That's as fishy as hell and totally screams foul play.
@@ericp1139 I'm just saying that the missing photo is as fishy as hell and it supports the theory that perhaps they had been kidnapped and that whoever had done it happen to be on that photo. So to protect themselves from prosecution, they erased that photo.
Uuldrik Boekweg but why not just destroy the phones or wipe their memory completely? Why only erase 1 and draw attention to it? And what kidnapper would allow them to call for help and take pictures?
@@ericp1139 You're assuming they never had moments of getting away from their kidnappers or that that they never had moments before the actual kidnapping where they were spooked. The condition of the jeans and backpack that were mysteriously "found" all point to the same conclusion: these girls were hunted down, ambushed and grabbed by one sick, twisted killer with backing from the local crime ring, who toyed with girls until they were brutally murdered. They had a moment where one or both girls escaped but ended up being re-captured and killed. And the twisted killer was one of those messed up psychos that likes leaving breadcrumbs regarding thier crimes without giving away thier identity.
My theory: They were surprised by a critter and ran. One tripped and fell down a ravine, the other stayed with her and they both died of dehydration. Happens faster than most people think. At least the families got their bones. Better than not knowing. RIP
@Kitten Lyric Locals took the backpack. It's got expensive electronics in it after all. Then when they got news of the missing girls they chucked it in the field. Maybe they didn't want to be connected with the case, so they left it there anonymously.
I hate this case. So many sad and disquieting questions. Chief among them, why did they think it was safe to go off, just the two of them, into the wilderness in Panama?
I think the mysterious part is that the backpack showed up not wet or dirty with the things in it. And the shorts neetly folded. Someone had to put that stuff there.
I believe, all of the later found items were just found by the locals, and later returned. Perhaps, people found out about the missing girls and got scared they would get in trouble, so, prefered to return them to the place they were found, and never contacted police.
I just don't understand why the hell they wouldn't have taken an even 15 second video on one of their phones or the camera to tell what was going on once they realized they were in real danger.
I think Feliciano came looking for them while they reached the top of the summit. And then the girls might have sensed that he was following them and they were further drawn into the jungle away from Boquete, where eventually they were killed.
I've read so many articles about this case and watched endless videos and news reports on it... And to this day I am convinced it was the man who the girls were staying with. He was never even considered a person of interest. And he's been super shady from the start. Like when he mentioned how he would go into the girls' bedroom to see if they were home and go through their things, etc.
I believe they were running from something that scared the hell out of them is why they ended up of the trail and both hurt . Then they tried to make a help sign with toilet paper and they took pictures bc whatever they were running from was out there and hunting them down. I believe the flashes were trying to see what was stalking them . I don't believe it was a person either . Their bones are scattered everywhere . Just my belief .
Someone pointed this out in the comments but all IPhones and nearly all Samsungs have an emergency dial page that does not require a PIN. Why 77 attempts at accessing the phone?
This particular case has always bothered me a bit more than others. Don't get me wrong, disappearances are always creepy, but something about this one just kind of feels different, you know? It's like there's something else just not quite right about this one.
Looked up this case on Wikipedia while watching this and I gotta say you did a great job of reading it almost word for word yet making it your own! Your videos are very well done man! Cheers
Consider this also> Five species of big cats - jaguars, ocelots, jaguarundis, margays and pumas - stalk Panama's jungles. You'll need good eyesight and a lot of luck to catch a glimpse of these elusive animals, though. Because the cats require large swaths of unspoiled territory and access to the over 85 types of prey they hunt to survive, they are all endangered. Panama, which is dominated by two large national parks, is one of the few places these species still coexist in the wild. thanks again, and Hare` Krishna!
This case right here has ALWAYS stuck out to me... of alllllllll the weird cases, this one fascinates me. Some excellent discussions in the comments, a lot to ponder now.
I used to live in Panama. The last thing two girls should ever do is hike solo there. I’ve seen quite few tourist go home in a box or go missing. You got keep your head on a swivel there. The thing most people don’t realize, is that there are a ton of little villages all over the jungle. Natives live in them, and to an untrained eyes you’d never find them. I remember one time a coworker of mine was jogging down a well traveled road through the jungle. Out of the blue this Indian guy pops out of the jungle, holding a machete in one hand, and stroking his c*ck with the other. She turned and ran, luckily making it back home safe. Yea it’s crazy there...
Thanks for watching! This is PROPER uploaded of this story, I accidentally uploaded a draft a few weeks back!
Its a shame this happened but honestly these two European foreigners should have NEVER been wandering around in the jungle alone in the first place. No way in hell would I allow my daughter and her friend go to a central or south american country alone without me or some other males I know could protect them. Latin American countries are fuckin dangerous in a million ways. I've been to Oaxaca mexico and was staying with a host family there house had concrete and barbedwire fence around it and I'm glad they did cause while I was there their neighbors son was kidnapped and they cut off his hand and sent it to the family demanding ransom money it was crazy. Even just walking the streets there was lots of people begging me for money missing limbs and shit from kidnappers. I know that's not what happened to these girls but central and south america are fuckin dangerous unless your on top of your shit at all times something bad will happen to you.
Ok, may I offer a few suggestions?
To be clear, I'm not trying to be "that guy," who always has to find fault in everything someone does, because they lack artistic expression, but a few things I couldn't help bit notice were.....
- You completely ignored about a dozen very significant details, central to the subject, for which you made this video. Details such as the inexplicable circumstances regarding the contents of the backpack. The details you ignored regarding the phone activity alone, make this video incomplete at best, & pointless at worst.
Now, the worst omission, by far, was the fact that 1 SINGLE PICTURE, OUT OF 100, HAD BEEN DELETED, VIA COMPUTER, & just so happened to be the pic which was directly in between the day time shots, & the night shots, which was quite literally the EXACT SAME TIME THAT SOMETHING HAPPENED.
- That said, the comments you made about the parents of these 2 poor girls, are verifiably false. Both parents strongly believe that their daughters were chosen, stalked, hunted, assaulted, & eventually murdered.
This work is bush league, bro.
That guy that that is a suspect in the holaway girl was also dutch.
@@adambryan411 I agree with you 100%. I think something human happened to those girls, and they likely were able to get away for a while, but eventually whoever it was, knowing the terrain better, got to them. Maybe there were animals that helped to scatter their belongings, but that fact that SOMEONE tried to enter the wrong code into one of the phones tells you something. What is wierd though, is this: If I was the perpetrator, I would get rid of all that stuff, why leave it laying around the jungle to be found? Why save a few photos? This whole case is bizarre.
The Antichrist Right! Our niece went to Costa Rica alone. She’s 23 but we all tried to talk her out of but she is so stubborn. Then while there she went with some people she had just met in CR to another country. Fortunately she came back safe & sound.
I was a US Army Paratrooper stationed in Panama in the early 1980’s. Panama is no place for foreigners to be hiking, especially those with limited experience. The terrain is so dynamic that you can easily walk off a cliff, drown, or become a victim of predators, including the two legged ones.
The only answer to this 'mystery' is the two-legged predator.
unfortunately lots of us from the 1st world are to retarded to understand that
Hunter Glass I did two short Tours in Panama,,92 to 93 (tearing apart this story, when broken down in segments), You know i I know, you do not get off the main trails, under no circumstances, Dec 93 Security, assigned as NCOIC, for medical team out of Fort Snelling Minnesota killed one of the largest Diamondback Timber Rattlers that I've ever seen in my life, 76" 15 buttons, stepped over hundreds of bofur bull frogs, as they were consuming 5in scorpions, One of the Peace Corps interpreters was struck by a fer-de-lance, a month prior, had to be Medevac out, I could go on for 30 minutes of stuff I've seen down there, those two girls did not wander off the trail. No way Shape or Form!
Agreed brother.
Ken Lee lepard..big cats
This one always gets me. The juxtaposition of their happy and adventurous photos against their desperate “using the camera flash as a light” photos freaks me out every time
Yes,that's it,isn't it.
I heard about this story over year ago, I still think about it very often, its dramatic and scary.
I wonder if they went off trail to go after the dog. It made its way back home alone, but if the girls didn't realize it could do that they may have followed it into the jungle and gotten lost themselves while the dog could just follow its nose back home without them. Whatever happened, it is a tragic story and I can't imagine how frightening that jungle would be at night, especially when lost and injured.
@@memawknowsbest4978 I doubt it.. I'm sure they would have spoken to the dogs owners before letting it tag along. ..
@@carolsnook4659 Possibly, but dogs don't always behave the same way with people other than their owners. And even a normally obedient dog might chase after another animal.
I need to stop watching these. I’m starting to think I’m going to be paranoid in public from now on.
I already am paranoid in public.
@@brimmingapplerowentree6232 😳okay
I know....when I went out earlier I was paranoid of everything and everyone. Which is no way to be. I got to stop binge watching all these terrible murder mystery vids.
@@GR3EYFAC3S You are right Fred!you can be paranoid in every day situations as well.
I've watched 7-8 of these tonight. I feel like I'm going to get murdered the next time I go walk my dog and everyone's going to assume I'm dead several months later when I'm actually very much alive but just living with my new space alien family on Jupiter.
I feel sooo bad seeing the 77 attempts on april 6th.... she musta INSTANTLY lost her mind when her friend died!! I cant even imagine what she was going thru at that point!! ALREADY in serious shit, then you dont just lose your best friend, you realize now your alllll alone out there!! That fear and sadness woulda killed me right there and then!!! Already on a very rundown, weak body... yup my heart woulda instantly gave out!! The deeper you look into this the more & more heartbreaking it is!!😿
Yes I wish that we where not reading, mystery murder into this case,it would of course be entirely possible to end up in a jungle area and die of natural causes and the elements,quite quickly without adequate clothing and a few provisions,not to mention fear and grief.
They weren't alone. Some of the photos that were taken were deleted in such a way that they weren't able to be retrieved
I believe she took the picture of her head herself to look at the injury.
That's exactly what I was thinking however. The redhead with the injury was the one who had the phone with the working battery. If that was the case then why would she not remember her own pin. The pictures were taken at a time when there were many failed pin attempts, if I'm not mistaken.
You're right, I didn't think of that. Wished they left a note, memo or some pictures for their loved ones to have clarity of what went on. Something isn't right about their disappearance and death but we will probably never find out what truly happened. In the case of them having got lost a simple GPS tracker or even a compass would have made a huge difference, but like I said probably there was more to it.
@@maureennd1 Maybe... neither of them took the photo of the redhead!
Yes, that makes sense
Why wouldn't she just turn on the flashlight feature on the phone?
Imagine how afraid they were just walking around in the forest in the night injured.. they died horribly
lone damaged wolf no they were never in the forest in april 1 they were in the Caldera hot spring swimming with two local guys and there they were kidnapped by a local guide named feliciano gonzales and sold to sex and organ trafficing in colombia
@@gpm3705How dya know this
@@orls9068 they dont know anything. the girls weren't trafficked if their remains were still there n identified by dna.
@@gpm3705 They literally found their body parts....... How is it possible they were trafficked if their dead bodies were found, some people I swear
The jungle was most likely so dark they couldn't even see their hands in front of their own faces.
I wonder why they wouldn’t have taken a short video? Especially if they knew they might not make it. I’d probably want to say my goodbyes...
This is so sad. I know when I was 21 I traveled exactly the same way they did... they didn't know the local emergency number, they didn't know anything about local dangers in general, they took risks that were unnecessary - I traveled exactly like that at that age. No idea what I was doing half the time. Now 10 years later I cringe at everything that could have gone wrong.
Maybe bad people know this too, we were attacked in Mexico on a beach
Maybe dont travel like that to a foreign country where people dont like you.
Y'all white women gotta realise the world isnt all rainbows and sunshine.
@@SDguy3030 we're women, mate. We have to look over our shoulder everytime we're on our own somewhere. We know the world aint rainbows and sunshine. Don't know what being white has to do with anything btw.
@@SDguy3030 Yeah no shit, that was my point good sir.
How did the backpack suddenly turn up in a rice patty perfectly preserved and not wet?
And how have I not seen anyone mention her jean shorts were folded nicely along the bank
...did you two actually watch the video...?
@@jamespetersen6419 because he did mention it?
@David Calderon they found their bodies?
@@jamespetersen6419 ...what?
the pin attempts were from a third party. You dont need to enter a pin on someone else's phone to use it to call for help! There is an emergency call button you can hit when the phone is locked.
yes why all these people are so dumb they think they died naturally, definitely foul play
I doubt the emergancy number set in your phone changes when you enter a new country. If not then the emergancy button would be trying to call the wrong number.
@@luc1ferblack I know most major phone service carriers will reroute emergency calls to the local emergency number. For example if you dont know the emergency number where you are, calling one you do know will usually be automatically rerouted to the local one based on your location. I'm not sure if this was a thing when this happened but it is now and has been for awhile.
911 does not connect you to emergency services in other countries
Even if nothing happened to them aside from getting lost I can't imagine a more terrifying situation.
@Frischeparadies you play with fire you run the risk of getting burned. No way am I saying they deserved what happened but c'mon, they had no business being there at such a young age. They probably thought the world is all kind and fair. When their parents should've taught them otherwise.
@Frischeparadies Lets talk about getting lost in the ocean for a minute and see who sleeps less.
How about in the middle of the ocean with no boat?
I have an experience that explains how a lot of kids disappear. When l was fifteen, 1986, l found a trench dug out for powerlines. It was about two-feet-wide, for hundreds of yards. Kids don't think; l jumped in. I couldn't get out. It was at least eight- feet-deep----and as l tried to get out it began caving in...and l ran my ass off as it closed in trailing me. If l tripped and fell, just one time, l would be missing to this very day. I'd literally be buried alive.
South Beach Miami Art I’m glad you made it out safe 🙏💖
@MrPitjoey Damn close call man ! Glad you got out !
My family lives in many places in Panama. I can definitely tell you, you CANNOT travel or hike there by yourself....especially when they know you’re American. It’s so many issues here.
It’s a beautiful country but it’s not safe.
Interesting, are you referring to natural dangers or human dangers? I have heard that some of the jungle closer to the Colombian border is home to drug cartels, and they did in fact kidnap 2 British tourists before and hold them hostage.
Fj Fj human dangers.
Michael Burns doesn’t matter. Just from word of mouth, if you’re a person who is as they call it “from the states” or “a foreigner,” you can be a target. The country has very poor areas and the residents need things to live so if you have something valuable, they will try to take it by any means.
This is in no way to scare anyone. You must be careful wherever you travel.
It's like swimming in shark infested waters, you're in their domain. A lot of these countries are not as progressive as the West. Gotta be real careful where you decide to venture...
They werent American.
So their shorts were removed. The backpack with all their items in perfect condition was hidden in another location away from their bodies and their remains were found scattered everywhere. And you think this was a hiking accident somehow?... 🤔
It was no accident.
@@marknewton6984it was
This is one of the most mysterious, disturbing cases in recent history (in my opinion). There are many, but this one particularly haunts me. Thank you for covering it. I greatly enjoy your program.
I don't know how mysterious this is. It seems like they got lost, died, and then their belongings and their bodies were found. That's not that uncommon, on the scale of wilderness disappearances.
Joshua Brooks If you look at the reports about the guide who offered them a tour they refused, who presumed to search their rented room the day after they vanished, he had many complaints of harassment from female customers, he would even hit on them in front of their boyfriends/husbands, and these complaints are from multiple unrelated parties, the guy comes across as shady and lecherous. And he just so happened to miraculously discover some of their possessions/remains when leagues of search parties found nothing for approximately two months...it’s an altogether appalling case, I pray for those girls and their parents that mourn them. RIP Kris & Lisanne ❤️🙏🏻🥀
It’s odd that there were no videos. If they were in trouble they should have made a short video of what happened or voice note.
I have listened to a lot of stuff like this, and none of the cases have creeped and freaked me out like this one does. It's the scariest story ever. It really bothers me. And it will never be solved.
All these photos taken as they lay there helplessly - yet not one memo typed into the phone or voice recorder file made? That struck me as odd.
At the time those photos were taken, Lisanne couldn't unlock Kris's phone. Also, by that time, Kris was probably dead already.
So, the only thing that Lisanne could do with the phone was taking pictures. At least in mine phone is the only thing that i can use without unlock it.
I think they became delirious.
Dehydration causes disorientation. If they behaved a little erratically or strangely, that's probably why. It's nearly impossible to think logically while you're dying of thirst. Coupled with a possible head injury, it's no wonder they did things that seem illogical in hindsight.
@@mylamename14 But they were presumed to be by the river which would have been, if not perhaps overly fresh, at least wasn't salt water. Unbless, of course, they were literally too injured to move to the riverbank.
@@lifhiy The pictures weren't taken with any of the phones. They were taken by a regular Canon camera.
That's actually pretty impressive that they were able to survive for 10 days, I doubt I could make it that long.
I don't believe they made it past Day 3. It seems the rest that "activity" wasn't necessitated by them. The photo of the redhead could've been taken by their abductors. The back packs being found several weeks later, down stream were very questionable. They were in prestige shape, no water damage or showing any signs or evidence of mishandling. There found with both of the phones intact & not weathered from from the elements. In this case it's a tropical jungle trail head? If I were a monkey in that jungle...lol..I'd have messed around with those back packs! The condition of remains found were also in a strange state. An entire ankle & foot lodged inside one of the boots? The rest of the bones were picked clean by the elements.
Depends if you had a snake bite or something but you, otherwise it is possible to survive that part of the jungle,by not panicking,resting,relaxing, finding fruits to eat,finding a stream to drink from and making shelter,that's if you are not injured or being molested by a human,the rain forest they got lost in,has no panthers etc,but the girls had no experience whatsoever of jungles,so they would have been frightened I guess.
@@intotheabyssoftheunknown4479 Do you speak Norwegian as your phone spelled a Norwegian word perfectly..
@@rebeccajelenawang4306 my phone is norwegian.
You may not have a choice in that situation. Your body gives out when it gives out.
I had such high expectations for this, until you fell for the "hiking accident" theory. There's a lot more evidence that you left out, including tampering with their remains. What happened to the poor girls was *no* accident and the Panama authorities know it.
It was covered up.
This girls come from my hometown Amersfoort. Today I saw a tv episode about Lisanne Vroon. What really moved me was that her parents an brother said that they are still glad that Lisanne went to Panama, that she did what she wanted to do.
In the documentary her brother and a the guide, who alarmed the authorities, followed the same path as the girls did. Everywhere aside the path are warning signs that it can be very slippery. These signs were placed after the accident. So I think they didn’t wander of the trail but slides from the path, where one of the girls broke her foot.
There is one mystery however. The original trail is to the top. Then you go back. The girls didn’t go back, they went on. But somehow I can understand that. Lisanne played volleyball on a heigh level, so her condition was ok. Then it’s easy to think “let’s go a little further”.
All in all she had well spent time in Panama. So I understand the feelings of the family. They want to celebrate her life, not her death.
Legit this one creeped me out a bit. Probably be made into a movie in a couple years, if one isnt already in production somewhere
I would hope so that would be a sad yet interesting thriller
Nothing the least bit interesting about it. Two girls go hiking, get lost, end up dead by the elements.
Daytona Says What?! I’m not so sure, between the instance of the uber suspicious tour guide who supposedly broke into the women’s room without police escort and the fact that their remains were scattered in a vast area as well as being bleached, it seems like there’s something more to this case.
@@z54964380 exactly that's probably what the movie if a film is made, will be about.
@@mariec3527 nah I think it would be a shitty movie like that one bout Dyatlov's pass
Only the dog knows what happened 😳
If he was even with them during the hiking trip
@@rebeccajelenawang4306 yeah either way we wont know what happened, there should be cameras that can always see whats going on
Oh Dog! we have the culprit sitting at our feet right now!!! (four in my case, all on my bed with me...)
I think you’re on the right track, Mike.
A couple of thoughts:
1. They might have been using the flash during the night as a last ditch effort hoping searchers or anyone might see it. The Panamanian jungle is simply pitch-black at night, so any light would would be anomalous & pique curiosity.
2. It does look like they fashioned some crude flags to - again - try to signal for help.
3. As for leaving the trail? I don’t find that mysterious at all! Young women, excited to be in such an exotic place, intelligent & educated, staying with locals who had surely imparted some knowledge of the area - it probably just didn’t seem like a big deal to explore a bit. They wouldn’t be the first tourists to underestimate how far off they wandered, either, & not be able to find their way back.
4. Perhaps the friend of the wounded girl refused to leave her alone to seek help. They were already very lost at that point, no doubt scared out of their minds. Perhaps the wound was quite severe. Bleeding in the jungles of mid-to-S. America would immediately attract all kinds of bugs, creepy-crawlies, and, um . . . other creatures. Also, infection would/could set in immediately in such an environment.
5. Doubtful they had much food or water with them. It would have been highly risky to partake of any local flora or water, too. If they had eaten anything in the environment, it could have led to serious illness, perhaps even hallucinations. Starving people will, however, eat anything. Not to discount whatever microbes would be in the stream water, either.
6. In my opinion, one or both died of injuries combined with dehydration & exposure. What a terrible way to die! My heart breaks for their families/friends. We might be living in a modern age of amazing technology, science, & medicine - but none of that makes us immune to little errors that can quickly snowball into tragedy. We’re still just walking, talking bags of bone & protoplasm at the end of the day.
I’m really impressed by your reporting, Mike (& I’m not easily impressed!) You look into stories on a deeper level & have more respect for facts than most on TH-cam with similar channels. I’m also pleased that you’re okay with leaving things as they are - meaning unsolved, incomplete. That’s how reality works much of the time, unfortunately. So THANK YOU for for this most excellent channel! I enjoy it very much. Now I just have to remember to ‘thumbs up’ every video I watch!
Sherry H. - What a well thought response to this situation. I could have written it myself. 😁 While so many here are claiming foul play, it is highly unlikely. There are usually logical explanations for the pieces we don't understand, but we may never know the answers. That doesn't immediately mean foul play was involved.
Her shorts being neatly placed on a rock have been seen as evidence of foul play somehow, while she might have placed them there just before going for a swim or just before falling. Also, why would a rapist make sure to neatly fold a victim's shorts? 🙄
Anyway, just wanted to give you a shout out for your logical response. ❤🙂❤
@@VioletJoy so how do you explain a bone of one of the girls that appear to be bleached? Or what about the backpack, found later, but completely clean? Just 2 examples that to me scream something more happend than just an accident. These were two smart, young Dutch women who wouldn't go off the trail just because they can. They also had the dog of the Panama family with them. As you know, dogs are great at finding their way back home, so how come the dog got home, but they didn't?
@@svw3734
How do those two examples "scream" that more was at play here?
The "bleaching" of the bones has been explained due to the natural environment of the area. Also, it's extremely unlikely for a killer to drag along enough bleach out in the wilderness to use on two bodies. And for what reason? How would the bones be accessed in the first place?
The backpack is definitely a mystery as to how it was in pristine condition, but that doesn't automatically point toward foul play.
I'm not sure how it would be seen as foul play. Would the perpetrator take the backpack home and then bring it back later? This is where we use logic and reasoning to think through these situations. We weren't there, but there might have been a logical explanation.
@@VioletJoy Maybe the woman found it in a different place a while back, not knowing that it belonged to the girls? And after hearing the news, she decided to turn it in? And she lied about the time and place because she didn't have an explanation for keeping it that long.
@@Kristynne. That's a perfect example of an unknown possibility.
I just discovered your channel a few days ago. And I can't stop watching!!! I'm up all hours of the night with my newborn and you keep me entertained. Absolutely my new favorite. Love your humor, in-depth research and how you present these stories. You should have your own show on HBO or something.
I remember this case when it happened, everyone was all over it because of the photos. But I saw in a video where they interview the family they were staying with and they said that they warned them that locals don't go in those woods because they are not in fact easy to trail there.
Those poor, dear girls, I feel so sad for them and their families, what a terrible thing. I hope they are both at peace now R.I.P.
This is one of the most fascinating true crime cases to me. So much mystery. Those poor girls.
People DON'T dissappear. People get murdered, abducted, fall off mountains, accidently drown, get lost, held against their will,,, but they do NOT disappear
If something isn't apparent to you, does that mean it doesn't exist?
@@kait2972..... What in the hell is this in regard to....? My comment that people, in fact NOTHING dissappears in thin air??? No, to answer your question, if "things" or situations don't exist, then, to me, they don't exist.
But still confused to your question.... 🙄
@@kristinajakakas9068 that's because you don't understand the word "disappear". It doesn't mean ceases to exist.
@@kait2972..... Dissappears means dissappears hun.... I know what the definition is. And their bodies were found.... Soooo, they didn't "dissappear". However, in a way did cease to exist anymore. Lol sorry, had to put that in. My comment was in regards to his comment on people disappearing.... People don't disappear. The girls got lost, for reasons unknown. And their bodies "reappeared" dead. They went missing, got lost, but didn't "disappear. " and people go missing, get snatched up, get lost, but they don't "disappear". They may not be located, but they're not shadows.... You reply was very confusing,,,
@@kristinajakakas9068 They disappeared and then later their backpacks appeared. Shortly afterwards their bones were found. Is this really such a tricky notion for you?
I visited the area around Bocas del Toro in 2006; it is rough, steep country and you can exhaust yourself going up and down the hills. The jungle is thick and just a short walk away will have you totally concealed.Because movement in the jungle is such a pain in the ass, there's usually no reason for locals to go wandering, so you could be next to a road or small village and it is likely you won't come across anyone.
The weird things are the neatly folded clothes and backpack in good condition.
Yeah this is so tragic yet clouded in mystery. Im with you it could have been a very unfortunate incident, they strayed from the path probably to go exploring deeper in the jungle, than got lost realized it was about to get dark, tried to track their way back when one of them fell unable to continue leaving the other girl to go find help. It seemed like they had a bit of experience leaving markers with their clothes to pin their location, its just sad that couldn't find help in time.
Good God this is one I want answers to so bad.
Me too but I doubt we ever will. I am wondering about those two guys they were seen with earlier though.....
They were murdered,even if one had an accident and died and the other starved to death wouldnt they leave a last will and Testament on one of their recording devices.they had a camera and 2 phones,prob all three would record video.Thats my theory,I prob would record something for my loved ones.
@@jerrymarshall2095 Yeah, I kinda meant more specific answers...
I was just talking to my flatmate this morning regarding this case. I even have a screenshot of one of the girls in the forest . This story disturbed me more than other missing persons. Don’t know why. Thank you very much, most informative.
"They went of the trail for some reason..." well actually, people do shit like that ALL the time lol it's not that crazy... people think that they know better and nothing bad will happen to them, so they go off trail or go hiking alone, and something terrible follows.. happens alllll the time. Not that crazy or fishy... just bad judgement
I noticed the many.. many of your stories on disappearances an murders happen in April.. just thought I’d throw that out there . Keep up the great job , love the channel 👏
You looked out the largest piece of evidence in the case. The driver or the resort worker(I can't remember how his occupation) that was accused of following them up the trail and their bodies were not found far from his property.
It was a local tour guide, not a driver nor a resort worker.
This case always seems like there's something missing. The conclusions reach make sense...but...there's a nagging doubt about things. Excluding the 911 calls, it reminds me of a Missing 411 case. How could the back pack be such good shape after that much time? I know they are rugged...but over 2 months in water/water currents? The folded clothes on a rock? Why do that?
Taking photos with flash was definitely trying to tell people something. If she needed to see, she could have used the phone's flashlight.
Miss Tia it depends if the phone old af
Ordici There's also the bad fact that the phones, if they did had flashlights, did not had enough power.
That is true.
Wouldn't a flashlight use less power than the camera flash though?
I don't think they were taking pictures to see. Of the 90 pictures, all were black and nothing could be seen except for a few, and all were taken on only one night in the span of a few hours. The pics were strangely taken at an average of 2 minute intervals. Even more chilling is missing deleted picture 509, the only picture between the day and night photos. If they were trying to tell what happened, she could've filmed herself and say her goodbyes but Lisanne was never seen and no pictures or video were taken during the day.
I have not long found this channel and it didn’t take me long to get addicted.😍❤️
I love your content and your Irish accent.❤️😍
For me I’m not happy unless I have my daily dose of Mike.💚😍
:3
It sounds like some of the random photos are stages 'bread crumbs' that they photographed to remember. Kind of like Hansel & Gretel.. they probably weren't sure if they were going the right way and wanted to find their way back to the original spot.
The photos after seem odd. The head injury picture might have been after a fall to see how bad it was. After a bad fall it would be hard for them to stand still and get a clear picture
What don't understand is...why didn't they shoot s video? I mean if the photos were meant to tell us something, then why wouldn't they shoot a video? Questions would have been answered if they filmed "oh we fell, she's dead and I broke my legs. And we have no signal. Love you Mom and Dad". The fact that there is no video is the strangest part. Makes me think there is something else to it.
and dont forget the fact that between the last daytime photo and the first nighttime photo nearly 8 days have passed
Yes agree there should have been a last message, considering Lisanne (and likely Kris) had well-filled diaries and Lisanne was in daily contact with her parents/family.
But even before we get to the supposed last days, the photos on the first day itself are highly suspicious. After a 2-3 hour hike up, it seems that these young ladies rushed at super-speed to take a series of photos and spent probably no more than 20-25 minutes at the Mirador (the divide). 5 of these photos were taken within ONE minute....different poses and variation in locations. Lisanne even had her hair tied in some of these photos while she let them loose in others. One photo of Lisanne looks strange with her left shoulder appearing extra long and her left breast also disproportionately larger than the other. Another photo of Kris shows a strange break in a few lines on her shirt. The last photos where they supposedly ventured beyond the Mirador point to some unusual camera activity, as only Kris had her photos taken whereas in ALL previous locations, you would find both in the photos or at least solo photos of both. If they were still in happy mood at the time of photos 507-508, why wouldn't there also be a photo of the two of them by the stream...
Anthony Shabrack, videos take up more space on your phone. Maybe storage was almost full.
I remember hearing about this. It was concluded or assumed that one fell and was injured. The other just stuck around trying to call for help. The pictures are of one trying to take pictures of her friends body in the river. Eventually she succumbed to dehydration and or hunger. Sure they both just graduated college. But were they experienced in outdoor survival? Sad unfortunate
Other youtube videos talk about a deleted photo from the camera that can't be retrieved. Photo number 509 that was between the last daytime photos and the night photos taken days later. It couldn't be retrieved because it looked like someone downloaded that photo from the camera to another computer. Also looking at the daytime photos you see a change in the mood and terrain. At first the photos show both girls on the high ground and looking happy. Then it changes to showing them on low ground going deeper into the jungle and only one of the girls is in the pictures and she doesn't look happy.
The first cellphone call was made only a couple of hours after the last day photo 508 was taken. They ran into a third party out there and may have got a picture of them (missing 509) and managed to get away. Unfortunately they were totally lost and grouped out the jungle for next next few days being chased and were caught again and killed.
Those 77 attempts to get into the iphone were made by the third party, probably looking to see if it had any photos in it. I believe the night photos were taken to make it look like the girls got lost and one of them was hurt in a fall. The girls were long dead by then. The backpack was found in an area that was 12 hours away from where the girls were hiking. The backpack and its contends were dry and the camera and phones were in working order. Someone held on to them and then placed them in a spot to be found two months later because there is no way they would be in good condition after sitting in a jungle during the rainy season all this time. Plus the backpack and the girls remains were found upstream.
They were murdered and the incompetent and crooked government declared that they got lost and died by accident so the tourist would keep on coming.
you're not quite right there. Kris had an accident approximately morning of April 6 and severely injured herself, probably making herself unconsious. This prompet Lisanne to use Kris's iphone from then on, because her Samsung had run out of battery. However, she did not know the Pin. It is a natural reaction to try and call for help immediately after an accident. So Kris fell morning of April 6. Lisanne stayed with injured Kris the next few days, because she did not want to leave her friend dying. By April 7 Lisanne had become so desperate, that she tried 77 more attempts to receive a signal, not entering a Pin of course. The night of April 8 the first terrential rains started and Lisanne basically knew she was going to die as well. In order to record her last hours, she frantically took pictures of their resting place, including injured (and possibly already dead) Kris. Some time after April 11 their stalkers caught up with them and eliminated both of them, since Lisanne was by then extremely vulnerable. The killers took the camera and deleted the picture, in which they were seen on, on their pc somewhere in the area (possibly Romero Alta). After succesfully decomposing the bodies they placed the girls belongings back on the riverbed to make it look like an accident. And there we have it. The complete story.
The only problem with your theory is that you assume the girls were together the whole time. We simply don't have enough information to assume they remained together. Based on the phone records We see both their phones were used for signal checks from the 1st to the 3rd at about the same times. That means the both phones were together but doesn't confirm that both girls were together. After the first few daytime pictures we don't see any pictures of Lisanne. If Lisanne was taking those night photos why only one picture of what may be Kris' head but she never took a picture of herself or more of Kris has part of a record of their last hours. Lisanne phone shows two signal checks on the 3rd then nothing until the 5th. Now that could mean that the girls were together and Lisanne's phone battery was dead and keep on going or that Lisanne may have suffered a fatal injury and Kris had to keep going and the third party found Lisanne on the 5th and turned her phone on to check it at that time or Kris was able to get away but Lisanne wasn't and Kris was able to take Lisanne's phone and camera but discarded Lisanne's phone on the 3rd when the battery was almost dead and the the party managed to find it on the 5th. Kris pressed on until the 7th when either injury or exhaustion or death stopped her and the third party found her in the same spot that all those night pictures were taken.
Hmm, why would the killer make 77 attempts to call the police...
BIG HOLE in that reasoning. If the “murderer” was afraid of the images on the phone, why not destroy them and be done with it?
Yes why not destroy both phones the camera the clothes passport money and the backpack itself? Kind of like the killer/s knew the government would rule it was an accident. Also they may have hacked into the i-phone and deleted photos.
Always particularly sad when such things happen to young people with their lives before them. I hope they didn't suffer too much. Really enjoying your channel, so thanks.
In an unfamiliar locale it's easy to get caught up in the beauty + explore. Darkness falls + even the familiar looks so different . Dehydration , disorientation , panic sets in . Wonder if they told anyone when they'd be back . A tragic lesson : a first aid kit , a compass , a canteen + energy bars etc could've been the difference between life + death. Don't be over reliant on a cell phone.....
20th century man wow that’s true. Recently two little girls survive in the forest way longer and they only had small training. One should always be prepared
I've watched so many of your videos but somehow this is the one that got me worse than any others. The thought of these two women being lost in a foreign forest and desperately trying to call for help for days is more chilling than many of the murder cases you've discussed
Once seeing this case here on Mike's channel, i became obsessed with this case devouring tens of not, close to 100 hours of research and imho, i think that the mystery regarding the backpack and the actual cause for the girls demise are two entirely separate incidences and are really connected nor related.
I think it was either dropped accidentally or intentionally by the last girl to die. If it was the former, it was either running away from some preceived immediate danger such as a 4 legged predator (even worse, a 2 legged predator) with nefarious intentions towards her survival. The second possible reason is that she dropped accidentally and no way to safely retrieve it.
Now if she intentionally abandoned it, she was trying to leave clues for the parties that would inevitably come searching for them although common sense would dictate that you leave one clue at a time instead of the whole kitnkaboodle making the backpack et al. The ominous reason for that would be that she was either in the midst of foul play or had reason enough to be anticipating its immenant arrival OR what seemsplausible to me, she had deteriorated to the point that she no longer had the strenght to carry it.
What i think occurred next is that a local came across the backpack and took it cos let's face it, who wouldn't take a brand new backpack they found in the middle of a jungle filled with things that someone above mentioned was worth more than what most of them earn in a year, even if it was only to try and find the original owners and return it. Upon realizing what was going on and who this backpack belonged to or the implications that it represented which made it impossible to profit from the items since it would make them suspect #1, they stayed low and then placed it where they knew it would be found with ease hence it's perfect condition. No body wants the authorities in their business which isbecome POI #1 which is objectionable for obvious reasons and it could also impact their operations if they were involved with some sort of illegal activities in that area.
Now, exactly what killed these two young girls? Obviously i don't know but I'd be putting my 💰 on them succumbing to their environment after a series of mishaps but readily agree that the chances for that not being the case is very much present for there are a few things that bother me about this case.
I definitely agree with your point about a local finding it and dropping it off anonymously once they realised the history of it.
Oh, You forgot to mention about deleted camera image 509 on Lisannes camera. It is the picture between the last day time image to the strange 100 odd photos. Some people believe the girls took a picture of a 3rd party and whoever this person was deleted the photo.
The guide that they refused was investigated for going into their room after the fact.
That makes no sense. Why wouldn’t the killer just destroy the cameras outright? Or just wipe the memory clean and sell them for a small fortune? Why leave the passport and $83? Everything in that pack is likely worth a year’s salary for that area. A much more likely explanation is that the police were incompetent and accidentally erased that image.
@@ericp1139 We don't know what a third party's motive would be but if it was sexual and the girls got raped and murdered. If course money wouldn't be taken. Read this: playacommunity.com/panama-articles/panama-national-news/6782-fbi-investigates-possible-serial-murders.html
@@tysiiiiiiiiiiii Once seeing this here on Mike's channel, i became obsessed with this case devouring tens of not, close to 100 hours of research and imho, i think that the mystery regarding the backpack and the actual cause for the girls demise are two entirely separate incidences and are not related.
I think it was either dropped accidentally or intentionally by the last girl to die. If it was the former, it was either running away from some preceived immediate danger such as a 4 legged predator (even worse, a 2 legged predator) with nefarious intentions towards her survival. The second possible reason is that she dropped accidentally and no way to safely retrieve it.
Now if she intentionally abandoned it, she was trying to leave clues for the parties that would inevitably come searching for them although common sense would dictate that you leave one clue at a time instead of the whole kitnkaboodle making the backpack et al. The ominous reason for that would be that she was either in the midst of foul play or had reason enough to be anticipating its immenant arrival OR what seemsplausible to me, she had deteriorated to the point that she no longer had the strenght to carry it.
What i think occurred next is that a local came across the backpack and took it cos let's face it, who wouldn't take a brand new backpack they found in the middle of a jungle filled with things that someone above mentioned was worth more than what most of them earn in a year, even if it was only to try and find the original owners and return it. Upon realizing what was going on and who this backpack belonged to or the implications that it represented which made it impossible to profit from the items since it would make them suspect #1, they stayed low and then placed it where they knew it would be found with ease hence it's perfect condition. No body wants the authorities in their business which isbecome POI #1 which is objectionable for obvious reasons and it could also impact their operations if they were involved with some sort of illegal activities in that area.
Now, exactly what killed these two young girls? Obviously i don't know but I'd be putting my 💰 on them succumbing to their environment after a series of mishaps but readily agree that the chances for that not being the case is very much present for there are a few things that bother me about this case.
'some people believed the girls took a picture of 3rd party blah blah' - some people who are just making stuff up? Intriguing case, but let's stick to the evidence. You fuckwit.
I always thought that the dog went after something and the girl's followed. From there they were lost and the dog headed back home. Bad things happened from there.
It was the tour guide! The ol’ fella called Gonzales. There are loads of reviews online of him being a creep, he knew the area n inserted himself into the search/investigation.
Thought when a phone is locked you still have the option (the only option) of an emergency call?
you still need a signal
@@damagecontrol7 Here in Australia if your network doesn't have coverage and you want to call 000 (emergency services here) it will connect you through, your call will be carried on another provider/ mobile network.
Think it's the same in a lot of places in the world, some phones even without a SIM can still call emergency numbers.
@@emd1494 didn't know that! ah good to know in case of an emergency
All phones should call 911 or equivalent
Does anyone else have that dream where your life is in imminent danger and you keep trying to call emergency services but the call just doesn't go through??
How stupid could you be as two young girls to go over and wonder around Panama. Absolutely unreal.
The Dutch as a people always seem happy, open and very congenial and I think they see the rest of the world the same way, unfortunately this is not always the case.
jeremiah johnson not really dude, not everbody
Yeah I'm Dutch and had to emigrate to understand how naive we are 😂
I've only travelled to 1st world countries but videos like this make me realise that the world can be cruel
@@NiekKuijpers
It doesn't matter to what country you travel always be vigilant.
I'm on christmas 2020, binge watching ALL That Chapter videos... I still have about 10 to go.
Some extreme discipline to use the phone sparingly. I imagine I would have panicked and attempted to use it until it was dead.
Drive safe ! lol. I prefer the I Love You outro old mate.
Well, this IS one of his earlier videos, so he didn't really know us well enough to get all mushy.😄😄
Enjoyed your video!!! Could you boost the volume in the future? Even with my speakers on 100%, it's difficult to hear. That would be awesome, since I intend to watch more. :)
Thank you! Noted! Sorry about that, will fox for future videos!
Im dutch and never heard about this story.. its so sad, they must have been so afraid.
3:10 Bras? Why? We don't carry spares on hikes...
Also keep in mind much of this happened at the beginning of the rainy season in Panama. I happened to be there that year at that time in Panama! If it starts to downpour they could've easily been disoriented even from the trail.
A little anecdote; I was in Peru and I had lost my flashlight. I was hiking the trail from the base at Aguacaliente to get to the entrance at Macchu Picchu. I had started just before dawn, but didn’t realize how dark it’d be nestled in the Andes. I was using flash photography on my camera and phone to navigate, then I ran into a friendly Aussie guy with a torch-beanie-thing he fashioned, whom I joined until we reached the gate. I related to their random night photos immediately as I remembered all the deleting I had to do afterwards (about 100 or so random night shots in dense woods).
I think these gals were the victims of foul play, but then escaped temporarily in the darkness, navigating with their camera-flashes and calling for help with what little battery they had left. I fear that they were probably apprehended thereafter a final time.
you're hot asf
It's not right is it. One could take photos of her surroundings to try and 'share what happened' as the story goes, but not a single selfie as if to say , this is the state I'm in this is what happened. I don't think the girls took those photos at all.
They didn't.
Why take pics.. Why not simply make a Video & record your voice about as to what really happened? This is a case of Pure foul play, how were the shorts neatly folded on a rock.. Why was the bag found in a rice paddy when the fact that the farmer women confirmed that it was not there a day before !
SS if i were lost, i know id have to tell my family what happened and i love them. Even with my last 2% battery. By then u know the phone aint saving u anyway. That and the deleted pics make me feel icky abt it too. Maybe someone (even a passerby accidentally) spooked them off their path, where they got lost and hurt that way, but the person found their items later and meddled with them for some reason. Who knows, really.
Video takes an enormous amount of battery. If you were down to 5% making a video would essentially wipe it out. They were still holding out hope of rescue by their cell phone location.
Lots of same criteria as the missing 411 cases.....
@@InTheBleakMidwinter666 Okay, do you or do you not believe that it's bigfoot? Also, do you believe there's some conspiracy afoot? Every time I see a "ooh it's like the missing 411 cases" comment, they never actually say what they think. Do you think it's supernatural?
Do you think there's a chance that maybe, the wilderness can be dangerous and there are many ways to get lost or die or fall victim to a host of accidental deaths?
@@InTheBleakMidwinter666 not even close 🤦
The taxi driver was executed ( drowned ) because he lied to the police. He said he rided K and L to the trailhead on April 1 but in reality he did not. He was paid by the murderer to create a story because the murderer wanted to put the focus of investigations at the Pianista.
The taxi driver had never ride the girls on April 1.
( my theory )
In April of 2008 I hiked the trail up to the top of volcan Baru in the middle of the night by myself to watch the sunrise at the summit. I started at about 930/ 10pm and sunrise was around 6 am if I recall correctly.
One thing that struck me while doing that hike was towards the end of the hike - near the summit - there is a scrambling section with some really steep drops on either side - some sections the ground is quite unstable as it is all loose dirt and loose stone. I remember thinking if I fell or slipped on this section I was for sure a goner.
It was a bit freaky on that trail at night alone.
Oh my, it was very creepy hiking alone at night!
I hate to think these girls got lost then finally found someone they thought would help, but took advantage of knowing that the girls were already known to be lost in the jungle, but it does seem possible
Ever hear of the little movie "I know my first name is steven"? Was a huge kidnapping case. Wound up the kid broke free many years later to save a new victim who was kidnapped by his tormentor. The first kid, who wound up the hero to the second, his name was Steven and he became quite famous as I said they made a film of his ordeal. Sadly he died in a auto wreck but what's insane is he had a brother who became a serial killer too. You could do stories about him or his killer brother or both in the same video ! (Assuming you havent already but I havent seen it if he has would someone share a link?)
Why would 2 women go hiking alone in the jungle in Panama??? Im a woman and I wouldn’t even do it with my boyfriend
That's a shame. No reason not to. Just be well prepared.
Maybe you should find a boyfriend with bigger balls
As someone who has actually lived in South America, you are correct. Forget what the others say - wherever there is poverty and opportunity, lies danger.
This case chills me to the core.. just try and imagine the horror they went through...Lost, scared, thirsty and starving...the only life line (as well the only form of light they had to try and find a way out) is a cell phone... A cell phone who's battery is quickly draining...these poor girls did not deserve to suffer this way, and you know they suffered both physically and mentally. I mean I can't even bare to even try and put my self in they're shoes.. May the both Rest in peace.
Indeed, may they RIP ❤️❤️
@@cm9231 indeed
My feeling, and based on my experience, is that they did unfortunately come into contact with foul play, either directly or indirectly.
Ryan Vandeput There is absolutely no reason to suggest they met foul play. Why else would they still be using their camera and cellphones? Surely if they got captured they would be taken away.
And what do you mean by, “your experience?
Investigators need to check youtube comments more often
@@FabiJenneke because they knew they were worth for nothing. Only to show that they died, and so the search would end. And that is exactly what happened. The information found, the phones, camera, aren´t worth for nothing but for the most valid theory that is they died by accident. Exactly what a murderer would want.
That area is notorious for kidnappings. Two white girls is like a neon sign saying "kidnap us". They were seen talking to a guy trying to get them to use his services as a guide, this guy was a known creep.
Regardless of how one or both of them were injured I am willing to bet that neither of them would leave the other alone out there.
‘They’re not talking any time soon’ man that’s really distasteful.
Agreed. So uncalled for
He seems like a good dude. Was probably just trying to be humorous, but I agree it was distasteful
Yeah, ageed, that part was tasteless.
Ya not cool, not a funny situation. We’re not here for dry comedy.
Oh boo fucking hoo. Get over it.
They were murdered. Nothing fits in this case. They never went far upstream, because the nightphoto with the 2 red plastic bags was made on the river with the bridge near the mirador. That means that the bones, the jeans and the bag must have floated UPSTREAM which is impossible. Then the bag was found 2 weeks later on a sandbank near the river. It must have floated upstream again and while being in the water, the camera and the mobile phone would have been destroyed. Furthermore the sunglasses are different from the ones the girls had. The girls were quite risk averse, because they started the same hike one day ago and stopped it due to nightfall - they knew where they were going.
Then within 2 months the bodies do not disintegrate that much. Without external force this is totally impossible, even in the jungle. One bone of kris was bleached and saturated with phosphor. The last photo before the nightphotos began, was deleted by computer and therefore not restorable. There were fingerprints found on the camera, but never evaluated !! Then they were girls with smartphones. No fotos, no messages, nothing for days they shall have been alife ?
This whole story is so full of things that don´t fit together that i think they were kidnapped and killed. They were killed and all the "proofs" were made later to distract and let it look as if they just lost their way and got eaten by animals. What is even more frightening for me is that obviously the government of Panama seems to know more and hides it. Especially since the murder of Catherine Johannet in 2017 and the following investigation by FBI this became very clear.
I can just advice people not to go to latin and south america. Those countries are very dangerous and one human life doesn´t count anything there. Search on the internet and you will find out that robberies and even murders of tourists take place everywhere there from Guatemala down to Argentina.
Well, I live in Uruguay and these things don´t happen. Thumbs up, though, because I agree with you, they were murdered. Bocas del Toro is very dangerous, I have read a lot about that place, robbery and rape, and the police doesn´t do much, unless you really move it and don´t shut up.
U say they had hiked the same trail the day before. I thought they had just gotten there. They had been in the country but just arrived in that area that day. They were scheduled to meet a guid the next day. I’m kinda torn between them getting lost or getting murdered. The fact that they were a good distance from the trail head where they started out. To where their ‘parts’ were found. It’s hard enough to hike thru the jungle on a trail but to go off-trail (because they think it’s a short cut) is just F’ing crazy! If that’s the case then they are really lucky anything was found! If they were killed by someone why on earth would they pack everything nice and neat, place phones in plastic bags and send it down stream hoping someone will find it. The logical point of that is that it was the girls who sent the pack because murderers don’t usually want to give anything up! To be honest none off this story makes any since. I mean this rescue crews were out there for days while they were still alive. *another reason why even when lost u never leave the trail!
@@chrisemerson7743 The fact that the bag with their things was found, is because they wanted the family and authorities to know they were dead, so that they stop looking for them. The bag was conviniently prepared with what they wanted so as to show it as an accident, but for sure to show they are dead.
@Leon Erin Thank you.
@@jeffclark8925 they didn´t find traces of animal agression in the bones found. Or in the clothes.
You skipped entirety over photo #509, which falls exactly between the day time and night time photos and was deleted from the phone. And not via the phone, but by some other means. That's as fishy as hell and totally screams foul play.
Uuldrik Boekweg or more like the incompetent police accidentally erased it. Who is using computers in the jungle?
@@ericp1139 I'm just saying that the missing photo is as fishy as hell and it supports the theory that perhaps they had been kidnapped and that whoever had done it happen to be on that photo. So to protect themselves from prosecution, they erased that photo.
Uuldrik Boekweg but why not just destroy the phones or wipe their memory completely? Why only erase 1 and draw attention to it? And what kidnapper would allow them to call for help and take pictures?
@@ericp1139 You're assuming they never had moments of getting away from their kidnappers or that that they never had moments before the actual kidnapping where they were spooked. The condition of the jeans and backpack that were mysteriously "found" all point to the same conclusion: these girls were hunted down, ambushed and grabbed by one sick, twisted killer with backing from the local crime ring, who toyed with girls until they were brutally murdered. They had a moment where one or both girls escaped but ended up being re-captured and killed. And the twisted killer was one of those messed up psychos that likes leaving breadcrumbs regarding thier crimes without giving away thier identity.
Uuldrik Boekweg prove it.
Try being more sensitive to the victims and their families instead of cracking jokes about the girls. I hope their loved ones won't see this video.
I was hoping you covered this! I don’t know how I missed this
If you play with some of the images of what looks like a slip upon the ground, you can see Kris lying on the bottom of the ground.
Please cover the story of the 2 young women that went hiking in Morocco & were murdered.
I legit wish You would have uploaded this a few years ago before I went to panama because yikes
You know its gonna be a good day when he uploads
Thanks Brandon!
My theory: They were surprised by a critter and ran. One tripped and fell down a ravine, the other stayed with her and they both died of dehydration. Happens faster than most people think. At least the families got their bones. Better than not knowing. RIP
@Kitten Lyric Maybe someone found it and moved it, not thinking about missing hikers.... dunno.
@Kitten Lyric Locals took the backpack. It's got expensive electronics in it after all. Then when they got news of the missing girls they chucked it in the field. Maybe they didn't want to be connected with the case, so they left it there anonymously.
I hate this case. So many sad and disquieting questions. Chief among them, why did they think it was safe to go off, just the two of them, into the wilderness in Panama?
You didn’t mention the missing camera picture.
I think the mysterious part is that the backpack showed up not wet or dirty with the things in it. And the shorts neetly folded. Someone had to put that stuff there.
I believe, all of the later found items were just found by the locals, and later returned. Perhaps, people found out about the missing girls and got scared they would get in trouble, so, prefered to return them to the place they were found, and never contacted police.
They placed the items later to get the 30000 dollar reward
I just don't understand why the hell they wouldn't have taken an even 15 second video on one of their phones or the camera to tell what was going on once they realized they were in real danger.
I think Feliciano came looking for them while they reached the top of the summit. And then the girls might have sensed that he was following them and they were further drawn into the jungle away from Boquete, where eventually they were killed.
Why are your vids contagious. I cant stoop
This guy just reads from wikipedia, adds nothing new to the case.
I've read so many articles about this case and watched endless videos and news reports on it... And to this day I am convinced it was the man who the girls were staying with. He was never even considered a person of interest. And he's been super shady from the start. Like when he mentioned how he would go into the girls' bedroom to see if they were home and go through their things, etc.
I believe they were running from something that scared the hell out of them is why they ended up of the trail and both hurt . Then they tried to make a help sign with toilet paper and they took pictures bc whatever they were running from was out there and hunting them down. I believe the flashes were trying to see what was stalking them . I don't believe it was a person either . Their bones are scattered everywhere . Just my belief .
I'm sure you're not far off!
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Like a Bigfoot?
Michelle Marie Perez or some kind of big cat
Someone pointed this out in the comments but all IPhones and nearly all Samsungs have an emergency dial page that does not require a PIN. Why 77 attempts at accessing the phone?
This particular case has always bothered me a bit more than others. Don't get me wrong, disappearances are always creepy, but something about this one just kind of feels different, you know? It's like there's something else just not quite right about this one.
Yes indeed
Looked up this case on Wikipedia while watching this and I gotta say you did a great job of reading it almost word for word yet making it your own! Your videos are very well done man!
Cheers
Panama, not the safest part of the planet to go treking around.
Consider this also> Five species of big cats - jaguars, ocelots, jaguarundis, margays and pumas - stalk Panama's jungles. You'll need good eyesight and a lot of luck to catch a glimpse of these elusive animals, though. Because the cats require large swaths of unspoiled territory and access to the over 85 types of prey they hunt to survive, they are all endangered. Panama, which is dominated by two large national parks, is one of the few places these species still coexist in the wild. thanks again, and Hare` Krishna!
Are them cats skull munchers? What happened to the women's skulls?
My Hometown.
Amersfoort, Holland.
This is such a sad story..
:((
Reminds me of the Missing 411 with the neatly folded jeans..
What do people in your town think happened? Do they buy the official story?
This case right here has ALWAYS stuck out to me... of alllllllll the weird cases, this one fascinates me. Some excellent discussions in the comments, a lot to ponder now.
The pack in the rice paddy and the neatly folded shorts suggest to me that someone else played a part in this.
I used to live in Panama. The last thing two girls should ever do is hike solo there. I’ve seen quite few tourist go home in a box or go missing. You got keep your head on a swivel there.
The thing most people don’t realize, is that there are a ton of little villages all over the jungle. Natives live in them, and to an untrained eyes you’d never find them.
I remember one time a coworker of mine was jogging down a well traveled road through the jungle. Out of the blue this Indian guy pops out of the jungle, holding a machete in one hand, and stroking his c*ck with the other. She turned and ran, luckily making it back home safe.
Yea it’s crazy there...